Yep.
May be because as I say from time to time, we can not live without dogmas
or else there would be no human collaboration, so no human society could
exist whatsoever. The mind was made for that purpose,. Then innately, its
notion of truth is not neutral, it is linked to values. We can not avoid
Hi Alberto G. Corona
These days, anything that smacks of authority is trashed.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Alberto G. Corona
Receiver: everything-list
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:18 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 00:38, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/14/2013 10:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Lobbying
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net
You want to know why nobody understands QM ?
Because QM is nonphysical, but is treated as being physical.
This might be called the curse of materialism.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
I have to say that in the countries where lobbies are not permitted, they
are stronger and operate without the voter knowledge, so they have much
more freedom for corruption.
Prohibition by law is not a magic way to make things dissapear.
Unless omniscient, incapable of doing evil inspectors
Hi Bruno Marchal
I think that the critical question to ask is not Does God exist ?,
but Does God necessarily exist ?
IMHO God exists because 1p exists.
together with 1p exists because 1p can think.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the
Hi Bruno Marchal
That is only true in heaven, where time does not exist.
Nothing could exist (on earth) if there were no time
because things (physical or nonphysical) exist in time.
That is what to exist means. To be there, dasein.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Hi Bruno Marchal
Specific properties, at least down here, are needed
if you accept Leibniz' dictum that identical entities cannot
exist in this contingent world, for they would have the same identity.
I'm inclined to say that that is also true in Platonia,
which would be a disaster, for you
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Alberto G. Corona
These days, anything that smacks of authority is trashed.
Possibly because of information spreading on the Internet. (Most) authority
thrives on the ignorance of its victims. It's becoming common
Hi Bruno Marchal
The senses convert the phenomenol space-time world out there
into nonphysical perceived entities which are stored
internally as memories.
A memory is experienced internally, so no space-time.
Then one might say that 1p is the black box that converts
MY view of the
The Newtonian world cannot exist without Quantum world
and vice versa.
We cannot separate the Quantum theory from Classical theory,
the Quantum world from Newtonian material world.
The quantum world as real as the physical matter world and
we need understand and celebrate their unity.
Where is
Hi Telmo Menezes
I think that according to the definition below, authority implies
a power greater than you are. Pride tells you that you are the greater power.
Thus ignorant and uncaring pride seems to be the source of all injustice.
authority
n pl -ties
1. the power or right to
Roger,
I liked your 1p think therefore 1p am
But your statement below, although correct , is much too vague.
Quantum mechanics is not understood because it is not complete.
Feynman came close to completing it but still missed an essential property.
That property is that the quantum mind has
Hi Richard Ruquist
That sounds fine, except the BEC is not something specific, it is
not a mind or brain, it is matter. I imagine that it condenses in
some container held near 0oC. That condensate could be
considered to be a monad or substance. And it could of course
be conscious in some
Roger, Any kind of particle from photons and light up to molecules can
form a BEC. BEC is a mathematical object and not confined to any one
substance. Even physical BECs have properties that are effectively
outside spacetime.
Richard
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Roger Clough
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net
Feymann has passed on. He was the one who said that
if you think you understand QM, you don't. Others have said similar.
Here's what Wikipedia has to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_formulations_of_quantum_mechanics
The mathematical formulations
Hi Richard Ruquist
OK, I was thinking about appying Leibniz to it.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Richard Ruquist
Receiver: everything-list
Time:
I don't really see much of a difference whether we talk about BECs,
strings, charged geometries, vacuum flux, aether, numbers, or any other
spatially structured medium. Who cares? The question is how does that begin
to know about something and to care about it?
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I think its more like applying BEC to Leibniz's monads
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
OK, I was thinking about appying Leibniz to it.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the
On 15 Jan 2013, at 17:18, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 00:38, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/14/2013 10:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Lobbying should be forbidden.
But it's just another name for petitioning
Craig,
The monads themselves are sensitive, being able to map or reflect or
perceive the rest of the universe instantly. Whether they care or not
is beyond the scope of science. Not seeing any difference is your
problem. Richard
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Craig Weinberg
This is the best introduction to quantum mechanics:
https://www.google.es/search?q=susskind+quantum+mechanicsaq=foq=susskind+quantum+mechanicsaqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.11316sourceid=chromeie=UTF-8
disclaimer: I have not seen it. but I saw some other lectures of this
series the theoretical minimum
On 15 Jan 2013, at 17:20, socra...@bezeqint.net wrote:
Physics and Metaphysics.
John Polkinghorne and his book ‘ Quantum theory’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne
=== .
John Polkinghorne took epigraph for his book ‘ Quantum theory’
the Feynman’s thought : ‘ I think I can
Hi Richard Ruquist
Yes, of course. The monads are mental representations of
physical bodies in the world. You will presumably have for
your physical object some container in L He with a BEC
at the bottom. Physical objects such as rocks produce
bare naked monads. Is that what you want ?
Roger,
Your presumptions are incorrect.
Also your monad definition.
I am too old for bare naked.
Stop being silly.
Richard
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
Yes, of course. The monads are mental representations of
physical bodies in
On 15 Jan 2013, at 21:54, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/15/2013 5:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 13 Jan 2013, at 20:02, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/13/2013 12:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
OK. My point is that if we assume computationalism it is
necessarily so, and constructively so, so making that
On 15 Jan 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/15/2013 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
Then why do we find ourselves in a world where everyone has only
life from their childhood to now?
All conscious states are experienced, even if everyone is truly
immortal it does't mean we always have
On 15 Jan 2013, at 23:18, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 07:54, meekerdb wrote, to Jason:
Consider the quantum suicide experiment, or the Shrodinger's cat
experiment from the perspective of the cat. From the first-
person perspective
On 15 Jan 2013, at 17:20, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Study the field, please.
I could study anthropology or I could study literature or I could
study history but I can't study theology because there is nothing
there to
On 14 Jan 2013, at 18:11, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 13 Jan 2013, at 05:34, Richard Ruquist wrote:
That's because they don't consider that matter is inherently
sensitive.
I do. In my model of reality all matter is
On 16 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 13 Jan 2013, at 20:14, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/13/2013 2:02 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/13/2013 12:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
OK. My point is that if we assume computationalism it is
On 16 Jan 2013, at 07:15, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue,
Hi Alberto G. Corona
I'll leave QM up to the physicists. As for myself,
I'm trying to understand the status of being of quanta.
Let us assume that every atom be a physical body
and its quantum the corresponding mental or
nonphysical representation. Then the quanta are monads.
But monads of
Hi Richard Ruquist
OK I'm fired. I leave the issue to you.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Richard Ruquist
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-16, 09:43:48
On 16 Jan 2013, at 11:01, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net
You want to know why nobody understands QM ?
Because QM is nonphysical, but is treated as being physical.
This might be called the curse of materialism.
Newton's physics is also non physical. In fact it is even
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:25:51 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
Craig,
The monads themselves are sensitive,
How? Why?
being able to map or reflect or
perceive the rest of the universe instantly.
That means that this capacity of reflection and perception is more
primitive than
On 16 Jan 2013, at 12:56, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
I think that the critical question to ask is not Does God exist ?,
but Does God necessarily exist ?
?
God is what makes existence meaningful. In comp and neoplatonism the
term God is a meta-pointer on the roots of existence.
Hi Bruno Marchal
OK.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-16, 10:35:43
Subject: Re: the curse of materialism
On 14 Jan 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi (socratus)
Idealism is the belief that reality can be more accurately understood
philosophically than scientifically. Theology is a similar belief,
namely that reality can be more accurately understood
philosophically than scientifically.
I
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:24, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
The senses convert the phenomenol space-time world out there
I don't grasp how something phenomenal can be out there.
into nonphysical perceived entities which are stored
internally as memories.
A memory is experienced
Hi Craig Weinberg
The Supreme Monad (the One) indirectly provides the sensitivity.
Although the monads by themselves are blind, deaf, dumb, and paralyzed,
the SM keeps giving them continual updates of the rest of the
universe. In that, it is as if they are sensitive.
The reason for this clumsy
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:38, socra...@bezeqint.net wrote:
The Newtonian world cannot exist without Quantum world
and vice versa.
We cannot separate the Quantum theory from Classical theory,
the Quantum world from Newtonian material world.
The quantum can explain some notion of
Hi Craig Weinberg
I agree with you. I have no idea what Richard has in mind.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:03, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
That is only true in heaven, where time does not exist.
Nothing could exist (on earth) if there were no time
because things (physical or nonphysical) exist in time.
I don't grasp that the non physical exist in time.
That is
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:13, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Specific properties, at least down here, are needed
if you accept Leibniz' dictum that identical entities cannot
exist in this contingent world, for they would have the same identity.
I'm inclined to say that that is also true in
On 15 Jan 2013, at 16:24, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
What do you mean by quantum mind?
keep in mind that with comp we cannot assume the quantum. It is has
to be
derived from the digital seen from inside.
And I am not sure
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 14 Jan 2013, at 18:11, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 13 Jan 2013, at 05:34, Richard Ruquist wrote:
That's because they don't consider that
On 13 Jan 2013, at 20:00, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/13/2013 3:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I have never met a theologian genuinely believing in both
omnipotence and omniscience. Since Thomas, christian theologians
knows that it is inconsistent.
Dear Bruno,
I have yet to find a
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 16:24, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
What do you mean by quantum mind?
keep in mind that with comp we cannot assume the quantum. It is
Hi Bruno Marchal
I seem to have been using words sloppily. You can't get away with that
with a mathematician :-)
Let me try again.
The phenomenol is what appears to be out there.
And yes, the experience of it is internal.
And you said:
I am OK with this, but no need of a black post in
Leibniz's perception isn't really instantly and continuous, it's more like a
slide show.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Richard Ruquist
Receiver:
Stephen,
Bruno endorsed at least part of my viewpoint below on whether
there can be multiple identities. I allowed multiple identities
(such as numbers) to exist in Platonia as long as they had different contexts.
- Have received the following content -
Sender: Bruno Marchal
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:25:51 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
Craig,
The monads themselves are sensitive,
How? Why?
They get information from every other monad in the universe.
by direct 1/r mapping, a sorta
Hi Bruno Marchal
1) My awareness is nonphysical (because internal) yet exists in time.
2) I suppose you're right about epistemological existence,
as long as nobody is thinking about those states.
I suppose that 1p would apply there, if we consider
thinking as internal perception of an idea.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:13, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Specific properties, at least down here, are needed
if you accept Leibniz' dictum that identical entities cannot
exist in this contingent world, for they
Hi Bruno Marchal
1) I was thinking of physical science, which cannot
know the meaning of things.
2) OK, I had overlooked the nonexistence in a mental
sense, or matter.
3) Aquinas was able to get away with basing his theology
on Aristotle by invoking what he called the analogy of Being,
Hi Bruno Marchal
I totally agree. Leibniz would say that God is the sufficient
reason for the existence of the world and all in it.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/16/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Alberto G. Corona
I'll leave QM up to the physicists. As for myself,
I'm trying to understand the status of being of quanta.
Quanta are particles like the electron or photon.
Let us assume that every atom be a
On 16 Jan 2013, at 16:34, Jason Resch wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 16 Jan 2013, at 07:15, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:23 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On
On 1/16/2013 1:45 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Now the same PR firms are hired by the oil and coal industry to obfuscate
the
problem of global warming.
And meanwhile we disregard other options out of ideology, namely
geo-engineering.
They are disregarded not out of ideology; they
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
I could study anthropology or I could study literature or I could study
history but I can't study theology because there is nothing there to study.
There is no field of inquiry called theology, there is only glop.
Oh, two planet-saviors.
I´m more simpatetic to the make French chess legal in america movement.
Waiting for the next paranoia
2013/1/16 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
e is great uncertainty about the problem. Of course they are not going to
do anything about a problem they are
--
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:46:03 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Craig Weinberg
whats...@gmail.comjavascript:
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:25:51 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
Craig,
The monads themselves are sensitive,
How?
On 1/16/2013 7:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 23:18, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 07:54, meekerdb wrote, to Jason:
Consider the quantum suicide experiment, or the Shrodinger's cat experiment from the
perspective of the cat.
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:00:46 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Jan 2013, at 16:34, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes it was worded too strongly. What I meant is there is no currently no
widely supported theory of mind where the identity of matter is important
to the identity of a
That is the most clear demosnstration that what we perceive is in the mind
,and the rest out of the mind is only mathematics (or some kind of
underlying conputation)
Simply speaking 3D geometry in which we see our body and the rest of the
colored reality is a product of the mind.
The quantum and
On 1/16/2013 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Jan 2013, at 13:13, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Specific properties, at least down here, are needed
if you accept Leibniz' dictum that identical entities cannot
exist in this contingent world, for they would have the same identity.
On 1/16/2013 11:34 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Leibniz's perception isn't really instantly and continuous, it's more like a
slide show.
Hi Roger,
What determines the sequencing of the 'slides' and their rate of
transition?
--
Onward!
Stephen
--
You received this message because you are
On 1/16/2013 11:41 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Stephen,
Bruno endorsed at least part of my viewpoint below on whether
there can be multiple identities. I allowed multiple identities
(such as numbers) to exist in Platonia as long as they had different contexts.
Dear Roger,
Please see the post
On 1/16/2013 10:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/15/2013 8:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 13 Jan 2013, at 20:14, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/13/2013 2:02 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/13/2013 12:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
OK. My point is that
On 1/16/2013 12:42 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Alberto G. Corona
I'll leave QM up to the physicists. As for myself,
I'm trying to understand the status of being of quanta.
Quanta are particles like the electron or
On 1/16/2013 1:52 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 1:45 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Now the same PR firms are hired by the oil and coal industry to
obfuscate the problem of global warming.
And meanwhile we disregard other options out of ideology, namely
geo-engineering.
They are
On 1/16/2013 5:32 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
That is the most clear demosnstration that what we perceive is in the
mind ,and the rest out of the mind is only mathematics (or some kind
of underlying conputation)
Simply speaking 3D geometry in which we see our body and the rest of
the
Dear Bruno and Friends,
The paper that I have been waiting a long time for. ;-)
http://arxiv.org/abs/1010.2067
Algorithmic Thermodynamics
John C. Baez
http://arxiv.org/find/math-ph,math/1/au:+Baez_J/0/1/0/all/0/1,Mike
Stay
On 1/16/2013 3:54 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/16/2013 1:52 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 1:45 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Now the same PR firms are hired by the oil and coal industry to obfuscate
the
problem of global warming.
And meanwhile we disregard other options out of
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