I believe most orchestral players consider more than three f's or p's to
reside here. I once had the great pleasure of the company of the first
trombone in the Vienna Philharmonic who was an actual Viennese. To call
him phlegmatic was excessive. Mahler's dynamics were surely necessary to
rouse such
On Feb 16, 2006, at 11:22 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
If Bach had written his "Jesu Joy Of Man's Desiring" today, he would
have been credited as "arranged by..." and been eligible for no
royalties at all unless the tune (the part with the
On 17.02.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote:
I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg called the first one
"Hauptstimme" ("head voice").
A more accurate translation would be "Main voice".
Johannes
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http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
_
Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German.
Now I understand "Hauptbanhof" better too.
Chuck
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:03 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote:
I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg
called the first o
On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote:
Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand
"Hauptbanhof" better too.
That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact also
Kopfbahnhöfe, and that would indeed translate into "head station". (But
it
On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:46 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
But, on the other hand, I think we know that in Mozart's time,
symphonies in certain keys in certain styles would often add trumpets
and drums as a matter of performance practice, improvised by the
performers reading from a bass line (Dwight B
If anyone has this at hand, could you let me know? Only the overture.
Thanks,
Johannes
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On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:57 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote:
Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German.
Now I understand "Hauptbanhof" better too.
That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact
also Kopfbahnhöfe, and th
Overture:
2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets in C, 2 bassoons
2 horns in E flat, 2 trumpets in A
Timpani
Gran Cassa
Strings
At 17:41 17/02/2006, you wrote:
If anyone has this at hand,
could you let me know? Only the overture.
Thanks,
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata
In my score (Dover reprint of old Ricordi) of the complete opera, the
overture is:
1fl. + 1picc., 2, 2, 2 - 2, 2, 3 - Timpani, Gran Cassa - Str
'm pretty sure that there are other orchestrations, though, since the
overture was originally written for "Aureliano in Palmira" and then
used in "El
Peter,
thanks, that's great!
Johannes
On 17.02.2006 Peter Lockwood wrote:
Overture:
2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets in C, 2 bassoons
2 horns in E flat, 2 trumpets in A
Timpani
Gran Cassa
Strings
At 17:41 17/02/2006, you wrote:
If anyone has this at hand, could you let me know? Only the over
On 17.02.2006 Michael Cook wrote:
In my score (Dover reprint of old Ricordi) of the complete opera, the overture
is:
1fl. + 1picc., 2, 2, 2 - 2, 2, 3 - Timpani, Gran Cassa - Str
Ah, now this is conflicting information. Are there 3 trombones, or are
there not (this is important for me...).
Chuck Israels wrote:
On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:57 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote:
Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German.
Now I understand "Hauptbanhof" better too.
That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact
a
In the Zedda critical edition for Ricordi the piccolos do not play in the
overture and Oboe 2 only plays in the Overture.
At 18:08 17/02/2006, you wrote:
In my score (Dover reprint of
old Ricordi) of the complete opera, the overture is:
1fl. + 1picc., 2, 2, 2 - 2, 2, 3 - Timpani, Gran Cassa - St
No trombones in Ricordi critical edition (1969). 2 Trombe, yes, but that
means trumpets...
Peter
At 18:27 17/02/2006, you wrote:
On 17.02.2006 Michael Cook
wrote:
In my score (Dover reprint of
old Ricordi) of the complete opera, the overture is:
1fl. + 1picc., 2, 2, 2 - 2, 2, 3 - Timpani, Gran Ca
It's quite probable that in the first performance of "Barbiere" there
were no trombones in the overture, since they don't play in the rest of
the opera. But concert performances of this overture often use
trombones. The Eulenburg miniature score has the three trombones. It
also has important rh
On 17 Feb 2006, at 11:12 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
He also claims that each out-of-tune note Dylan sings is an
integral part of the work,
What makes you think it isn't?
Though I might have said "an integral part of that rendition," since,
as you note, Bob does it differently each time.
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2006 Michael Cook wrote:
In my score (Dover reprint of old Ricordi) of the complete opera, the
overture is:
1fl. + 1picc., 2, 2, 2 - 2, 2, 3 - Timpani, Gran Cassa - Str
Ah, now this is conflicting information. Are there 3 trombones, or are
there not (this
Darcy James Argue wrote:
>> He also claims that each out-of-tune note Dylan sings is an integral
part of the work,
What makes you think it isn't?
Though I might have said "an integral part of that rendition," since,
as you note, Bob does it differently each time. But there's nothing
wor
On 17 Feb 2006, at 19:28, Raymond Horton wrote:
Somewhere along the way, someone added three trombone and timp parts
to the overture that are commonly played, and these are in the
Dover-Ricordi score (I just looked at the latter yesterday, AAMOF.)
No, the trombone parts are original Rossini
Christopher Smith wrote:
[snip]>
He gets teased mercilessly, but he thinks his work will go down in the
annals of musicology.
[snip]
Sounds more like he should go down in the "anals" of history! :-o
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale ma
Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2006, at 11:12 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
He also claims that each out-of-tune note Dylan sings is an integral
part of the work,
What makes you think it isn't?
Though I might have said "an integral part of that rendition," since,
as you note, Bob do
I have the Harmonia Mundi CD entitled "Ouverture" featuring a lot of music from the Hamburg opera during the Baroque. I love the recording and the use of a lot of percussion instruments adds a level of vitality to the performances.
Which raises a question in my mind, how authentic is improvised
At 2/17/2006 01:20 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>On 17 Feb 2006, at 11:12 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
>> He also claims that each out-of-tune note Dylan sings is an
>> integral part of the work,
>
>What makes you think it isn't?
Didn't Cage say that coughing and sneezing during a performance
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
> Would a tambourine in a Bach Orchestral Suite be that much of a musical
> faux paux?
Not as much as the use of Accordion or Bagpipes would be.
Nah - it depends on how used, as always.
cd
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/#
Phil Daley wrote:
At 2/17/2006 01:20 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>On 17 Feb 2006, at 11:12 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
>> He also claims that each out-of-tune note Dylan sings is an
>> integral part of the work,
>
>What makes you think it isn't?
Didn't Cage say that coughing and snee
On 16 Feb 2006 at 23:50, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> (17th-c. orchestras had no 16' voice)
Is this really true as an unqualified statement? Orchestral practice
was very, very different in different places, and, of course, the
whole idea of an "orchestra" did not really quite yet exist in the
way w
Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
JG:
In Europe this is already the case, there is nothing new about it.
KCM:
>> Yes, but it's new to the UK.
JG:
> I was still under the impression that the UK was part of Europe, but I
might be wrong. :-o
Thus proving your initial assertion to be
On 17 Feb 2006 at 1:19, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 16.02.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote:
> > The Baroque ensemble Tempesta di Mare has made a name for itself in
> > part through its performances and recordings of reconstructed lute
> > concertos by Sylvius Leopold Weiss--concertos for which only the
On 17 Feb 2006 at 1:06, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 16.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > I'm not calling for editors to not be paid, or to be paid less. I'm
> > simply calling for them to not be paid *more* than they have been in
> > the past, especially when it's justified by a claim that amoun
Not far removed from the accordion,but mouth harps were used for basso continuo sometimes.
On 2/17/06, Carl Dershem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:> > Would a tambourine in a Bach Orchestral Suite be that much of a musical
> > faux paux?Not as much as the use of Accordion or Bag
On 17 Feb 2006 at 1:24, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 16.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > Well, I'm not sure that alone has much utility in drawing the
> > distinction. In the de Lalande with the missing viola part, leaving
> > it out is going to sound different from having it in, most obviously
On 16 Feb 2006 at 23:36, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
> On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:46 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> > In the case of the missing cornet parts, my guess is that it's
> > pretty clear that your choices are limited to to 2 or 3 different
> > notes within any harmonic context, but the figurat
On 17 Feb 2006 at 1:10, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 16.02.2006 Ken Moore wrote:
> >> In Europe this is already the case, there is nothing new about it.
> >
> > Yes, but it's new to the UK.
>
> I was still under the impression that the UK was part of Europe, but I
> might be wrong. :-o
This is
On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
As he should have.
Do you really think that the argument against Sawkins has been an
argument against royalties for all editions, no matter the degree of
original work included in them?
So where is the line? Two missing viola parts? Three? All the strin
On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
Unique by one note? Two notes? Three?
How many notes make it unique enough? 10? 100?
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
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On Feb 17, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
how authentic is improvised percussion to Baroque music?
It's authentic where it is known to have been used (as in Handel's
Music for the Royal Fireworks)--and not elsewhere!
Praetorius lists many percussion instruments; and we know the
On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
I don't see how they could have known better, as they were operating
under the to-then-standard interpretation of the applicable UK
copyright law.
I am by no means a lawer, but I believe you do not fully understand how
European law functions. There are a
On Feb 17, 2006, at 2:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 16 Feb 2006 at 23:50, Andrew Stiller wrote:
(17th-c. orchestras had no 16' voice)
Is this really true as an unqualified statement? Orchestral practice
was very, very different in different places, and, of course, the
whole idea of an "o
On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
In this case, the question was how much original contribution is
required to create a new work that is eligible for copyright
independent from the original work. It seems to me that this is a
distinction you continue to miss, Johannes, one that would be easi
On 17.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Which raises a question in my mind, how authentic is improvised percussion to
Baroque music? Praetorius lists many percussion instruments; and we know they
were used in all types of music of his period. Why would such instruments have
been dropped during t
I once attended a party of musicians in NY where the music was provided by a cellist and accordionist playing mostly Baroque music. It changed my perception of the accordion. the players were superb, and the "breathing" of the accordion gave the continuo parts a kind of life that was different fr
On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote:
I once attended a party of musicians in NY where the music was provided by a cellist and
accordionist playing mostly Baroque music. It changed my perception of the accordion.
the players were superb, and the "breathing" of the accordion gave the continuo
pa
At 01:21 PM 2/17/06 -0800, Chuck Israels wrote:
>I once attended a party of musicians in NY where the music was provided by
>a cellist and accordionist playing mostly Baroque music.
Any chance that was Rip Keller and Tamas Kalmar? You should hear them do
the slow movement of the Beethoven 7th on t
I was once witness to a wonderful perfomance of the famous Bach
Badinerie as part of the Avignon festival.
The group played from the top of a tarred and feathered open-top
double decker bus and consisted of a flautist, a violinist, a cellist and a
keyboard player. In front of them stood
Really? Which instruments??
On 2/17/06, Andrew Stiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
On Feb 17, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:> how authentic is improvised percussion to Baroque music?
It's authentic where it is known to have been used (as in Handel'sMusic for the Royal Fireworks)-
Hi all,
I have a friend that has a pretty extensive record collection (yes,
actual vinyl...:-)) and is looking to sell it. Is there anyone on
this list who is a record collector or might know someone who is? My
friend has everything in an Excel spreadsheet so it would be very
easy for s
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:14, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > I don't see how they could have known better, as they were operating
> > under the to-then-standard interpretation of the applicable UK
> > copyright law.
>
> I am by no means a lawer, but I believe you do
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:16, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > As he should have.
> >
> > Do you really think that the argument against Sawkins has been an
> > argument against royalties for all editions, no matter the degree of
> > original work included in them?
>
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:17, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > Unique by one note? Two notes? Three?
>
> How many notes make it unique enough? 10? 100?
"Uniqueness" was not one of the points considered by the judges to be
relevant to their determination. There were
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:21, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 17.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote:
> > In this case, the question was how much original contribution is
> > required to create a new work that is eligible for copyright
> > independent from the original work. It seems to me that this is a
> > di
Sorry for the OT post, and I did read the manual! I am trying to enter data about musical works in an Excel spreadsheet. I've figured out how to get a 3/4 time signature to display as 3/4 rather than March 4, but can't find a way to get 6/8 to remain as I enter it. Excel wants to reduce it to 3
On 17 Feb 2006 at 15:21, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>
> > how authentic is improvised percussion to Baroque music?
>
> It's authentic where it is known to have been used (as in Handel's
> Music for the Royal Fireworks)--and not elsewhere!
Is th
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:31, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> On 17.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
> > Would a tambourine in a Bach Orchestral Suite be that much of a
> > musical faux paux?
>
> Good question. I tend to think that Bach wouldn't have had one, but
> it's quite obviously possible to add it. On
On 17 Feb 2006 at 15:05, eshbmusic1 wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, and I did read the manual!
>
> I am trying to enter data about musical works in an Excel
> spreadsheet. I've figured out how to get a 3/4 time signature to
> display as 3/4 rather than March 4, but can't find a way to get 6
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:05 PM, eshbmusic1 wrote:
Sorry for the OT post, and I did read the manual!
I am trying to enter data about musical works in an Excel spreadsheet.
I've figured out how to get a 3/4 time signature to display as 3/4
rather than March 4, but can't find a way to get 6/8 to
Have you tried to enter an apostrophe
(unshifted quote)?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
eshbmusic1
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006
6:05 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] OT Time
Signatures in Excel
Sorry for the OT post, and I did r
Select relevant cells - right click - format cells - 'number' tab -
choose 'Text' as the category
eshbmusic1 wrote:
Sorry for the OT post, and I did read the manual!
I am trying to enter data about musical works in an Excel spreadsheet.
I've figured out how to get a 3/4 time signature to di
Hi again, Erica,
If you want to do a row or column of time
signatures, go to Format -> Cell(s) -> General and choose Text for the
cells selected. That will ensure any numbers you enter will be treated not as
numbers that could be reduced but as text.
Hope this helps.
Richard
Thanks, everyone! I found the info about formatting as text about two pages later! But haven't found the "3/4 solution, David, so thank you. Richard Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi again, Erica, If you want to do a row or column of time signatures, go to Format -> Cell(s
At 1:55 PM -0500 2/17/06, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
I have the Harmonia Mundi CD entitled "Ouverture" featuring a lot of
music from the Hamburg opera during the Baroque. I love the
recording and the use of a lot of percussion instruments adds a
level of vitality to the performances.
Which raise
Thanks, everyone! I found the info about formatting as text about two pages later! But haven't found the "3/4 solution, David, so thank you. Richard Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi again, Erica, If you want to do a row or column of time signatures, go to Format -> Cell(s
Hi Dennis,
I've no idea who these folks were. The cellist was a woman, and the
occasion was a going away party for one of the violinists in the pit
orchestra of "Promises, Promises" who was leaving for a teaching
position in Athens, GA. Must have been 1968-69, a long time ago.
Wish I co
Hi Karen,
I have one too - with all kinds of stuff I'd like to sell, but it's
not organized. No idea what it's worth, but people tell me it's Ebay
fodder. Besides a good jazz collection, I have many pristine
recordings of 20th Century things I collected when we used to get
LP's (as NARA
On 17 Feb 2006 at 18:56, John Howell wrote:
> Again, you are taking a 20th century viewpoint and arguing from 20th
> century assumptions. Iconography from the Burgundian court (14th-15th
> centuries) show a typical dance band consisting of two shawms
> improvising over a cantus firmus played by a
At 3:40 PM -0500 2/17/06, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Feb 17, 2006, at 2:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 16 Feb 2006 at 23:50, Andrew Stiller wrote:
(17th-c. orchestras had no 16' voice)
Is this really true as an unqualified statement? Orchestral practice
was very, very different in different
On 2/17/06, Andrew Stiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: My wife coined the term "tinkleplunk" as a measure of the degree towhich a modern Renaissance ensemble is willing to pander to a modern audience. The more percussion and other inappropriate instruments, themore lowbrow and "Renaissance Fair
Hi Chuck,
I'll bet you have some great stuff too! I have a soft spot in my
heart for the vinyl recordings...I love the way a record sounds
clicks, scratch and all! I still have several records in my
possession as well :-) I inherited my grandfather's Louis Amstrong
records...they are s
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Not far removed from the accordion,but mouth harps were used for basso
continuo sometimes.
Not far removed? We generally seat them on the other side of the
orchestra! (Just through the double doors and behind the stairs, when
possible).
cd
--
http://www.livejourna
On 17 Feb 2006, at 19:28, Raymond Horton wrote:
Somewhere along the way, someone added three trombone and timp parts
to the overture that are commonly played, and these are in the
Dover-Ricordi score (I just looked at the latter yesterday, AAMOF.)
Michael Cook wrote:
No, the trombone pa
Can anyone tell me what the French terminology is for finger tremolo
in string instruments?
Thanks
John
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