Grant Edwards wrote:
Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's describe as a system
similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source.
The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get
better performance because all executables are optimized for
exactly the right instruction se
Grant Edwards visi.com> writes:
> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's describe as a system
> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source.
> The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get
> better performance because all executables are optimized for
> exactly th
On 2009-02-04, James wrote:
> Grant Edwards visi.com> writes:
>
>> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system
>> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source.
>> The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get
>> better performance because all execut
Sebastián Magrí wrote:
Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system
works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the
best for you.
I don't get that argument. I didn't learn how Linux or Unix works with
Gentoo. I didn't even find my prior knowl
On 2009-02-04, Paul Hartman wrote:
> This thread is not complete without the obligatory link:
>
> http://funroll-loops.info/
Brilliant! I really like this one:
To me, an extra 0.1% performance increase, even if I am only
imagining it to be faster, is certainly worth one day a week
reco
On 2009-02-04, Jes?s Guerrero wrote:
> El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribi?:
>> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote:
>>
>> I personally don't view Gentoo as a "distro" in the traditional sense. To
>> me, it's a build system, an app - portage or pa
Paul Hartman gmail.com> writes:
> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
> >> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
On 2009-02-04, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Except that what you build and maintain isn't a "distro", it's
>> a single machine.
>
> Why?
Do you distribute what you're building as a something for
others to use to install Linux? I don't,
On 2009-02-04, James wrote:
> Paul Hartman gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> >> of the power of the
Jesús Guerrero wrote:
[...]
A big big advantage is that besides the huge number of packages
that we have, we also have dozens of overlays. [...] and some
of them are really bug.
QFT ;)
Hazen Valliant-Saunders gmail.com> writes:
> No they would never be useful for anything other then rendering
> bouncing bobbies! ;)
Bouncing bobbies? Sound like a fraternity game for new recruits...
So Searching and Sorting, are documented to orders of magnitude
faster on GPU (SIMD) machines
Jesús Guerrero wrote:
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
Sebastián Magrà wrote:
Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system
works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the
best for you.
I don't get that argum
Sebastián Magrí wrote:
The installation experience with the traditional method must be
mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is
deprecated...
That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity if it's not easy to
install. But since there are not enough devs left for the GUI
Jesús Guerrero wrote:
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 7:07, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
Sebastián Magrà wrote:
The installation experience with the traditional method must be
mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is
deprecated...
That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popula
Alan McKinnon wrote:
On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, "masochists", live in
peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do
with our privacy? :P [it's a joke, in case anyone didn't notice]
There have been
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Sebastián Magrí wrote:
The installation experience with the traditional method must be
mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is
deprecated...
That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity
Steven Lembark wrote:
A downside is that you'll need fast machines to comfortably build
packages. I wouldn't use it on my Pentium 3 800Mhz for example. That
would take ages to compile system/world with recent GCC versions. I
guess GCC was much faster in the 2.x versions back then?
How painfu
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:.
I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in a
different manner to the way the thing will be used.
Because installation is boring. The easier it is, the better.
wrong. The installatio
On 2009-02-05, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:13:54 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> > I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in
>> > a different manner to the way the thing will be used.
>>
>> Because installation is boring. The easier it is, the
On 2009-02-05, Dirk Uys wrote:
> The type of user I don't like is the ignorant type. Innocent
> users are ok, they don't know, but ignorant users choose not
> to know.
Surely there are things you use without knowing how they work.
You probably use a phone, but do you _really_ know how the
cellul
On 2009-02-05, Steven Lembark wrote:
>
>> A downside is that you'll need fast machines to comfortably build
>> packages. I wouldn't use it on my Pentium 3 800Mhz for example. That
>> would take ages to compile system/world with recent GCC versions. I
>> guess GCC was much faster in the 2.x vers
Stroller wrote:
[...]
To be honest, I am surprised this notion of "optimised executables" has
stuck around long enough that you've heard it, but it's an old joke to
many of us who were around in 2004.
But AFAIK, it *was* faster because Gentoo used the egcs fork of GCC
which did produce faste
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs.
I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what
to do rather than go read docs somewhere else :P
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs.
I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what
to do rather than go read docs somewhere else :P
and wh
Saphirus Sage wrote:
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
You're screwed anyway if you can't use the CLI installer correctly.
Reading the docs is fine, but they're written for geeks, not normal
people. Normal people don't have a clue what the docs are talking
about :)
It seems to me that not to many "no
Jesús Guerrero wrote:
It's not "The community vs. you", you are part of the community
since the very moment you start using linux.
Most people don't want to be some part of some weird community. They
just want to use a computer. If they were looking for friends, they
might try the local spo
Joshua D Doll wrote:
I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and
written. I feel they are so well written and informative that a new user
could read and follow what the doc is trying to convey.
I'll just quote Linux Hater here:
"Write tons of documentation on complicated
On 2009-02-06, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Friday 06 February 2009 15:29:21 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if
>> > > you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them ov
On 2009-02-06, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:17:46 +0100 (CET), Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
>> Well, in that sense, ALL the man pages of for anything that's more
>> complext than ls will be horrible. There's no way to can shorten
>> it unless you take features off from bash. It's a very
On 2009-02-06, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> except that info is horrible. I hate info. If you don't know
> exactly what you are looking for, you are lost. And you can
> never sure in which part they hid the information you are
> looking for. Oh - and the navigation? A nightmare.
Exaclty!
> I p
On 2009-02-06, Saphirus Sage wrote:
Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on
just about anything, searched and either split into chapters
or presented as a single page.
>>>
>>> The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee
>>> invented HTML, not Richard
On 2009-02-06, Saphirus Sage wrote:
>>> I'd wager to think that if we did use HTML, we'd simply argue
>>> about the order of it's presentation or use of bold and
>>> underlines.
>>>
>>
>> And let's not forget Flashing Text! (shudder).
>>
>>
> Oh no, it's 1999's geocities all over again!
Grant Edwards writes:
>> The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee
>> invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman.
>
> Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're
> largely correct.
There is entirely to much made of RMS. I don't know him personally
and just a tiny bit
Volker Armin Hemmann writes:
> and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read
> info?
You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the
discussion.
I know you are not incapable of installing emacs and we both know you
can read info without it quite well. S
Dirk Heinrichs writes:
> Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther:
>
>> Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer
>
> What the heck is a "Windows Installer"?
>
> *SCNR*
>
Thirty five reboots and several hours
Volker Armin Hemmann writes:
> On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann writes:
>> > and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read
>> > info?
>>
>> You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the
>> discussion.
>>
>> I know y
Sebastian Günther wrote:
* Nikos Chantziaras (rea...@arcor.de) [05.02.09 09:12]:
Than I'll rephrase my statement: Gentoo would need a non-bugged GUI
installer ;)
No, Gentoo needs no GUI or CLI installer. It is very good, that if you
install Gentoo for the first time, you must actually read th
Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:53:20 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
I'm not gonna duplicate what I wrote. Read it again :P
Repeating something does not increase its validity.
That's why I didn't repeat it in the first place maybe?
You stated that
Gentoo needs a GUI install
Jesús Guerrero writes:
> El Vie, 6 de Febrero de 2009, 22:00, Harry Putnam escribió:
>> Grant Edwards writes:
>>
>>
The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee
invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman.
>>>
>>> Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're
>>>
Volker Armin Hemmann writes:
> where? Because of the 'xemacs is even better'? Well, you are stating all the
> time that info is perfect for big things like bash - and then you are
> critizing me for stating unsupportable hard facts? Pretty ironic, don't you
> think?
Hehe... maybe so. You'll
Jesús Guerrero writes:
>> There should be no posts beyond this point proclaiming how tuff it is
>> to use emacs if you have no network on a fresh install... Or having to
>> suffer through learning info to learn emacs to ah but who knows.
>
> So you word is definitive and infallible.
Where di
On 2009-02-08, Graham Murray wrote:
> Neil Bothwick writes:
>
>> Everyone's more or less agreeing here, that the info format is
>> useful but the standard info reader sucks. Once you start
>> reading info pages in a decent reader, like Konqueror, they
>> are useful for more complex documents. Alt
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-02-04, James wrote:
>> Grant Edwards visi.com> writes:
>>
>>> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system
>>> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source.
>>> The main benefit claimed for this app
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter
> of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the
> packages and the rolling release nature (I'm tired of major updates
> every 6 months in
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter
>> of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the
> I also get si
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote:
> I will mention that the performance optimizations for Gentoo mainly lie in
> the kernel configuration (the binary distributions compile just about
> everything you can imagine into their kernels), and in fine tuning the USE
> flags
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter
> > of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the
> > packages and the
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 14:03 +0100, Momesso Andrea escribió:
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter
> > > of performance optim
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:45:50AM -0430, Sebastián Magrí wrote:
[snip]
> >
> > Often on gentoo related IRC chanels comes someone who asks why his
> > firefox-bin (or openoffice-bin or *-bin) runs faster than his
> > built-from-source firefox.
> >
> > Usually chan's gurus answer that upstream pac
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 11:08, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
> Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> A big big advantage is that besides the huge number of packages
>> that we have, we also have dozens of overlays. [...] and some of them are
>> really bug.
>
> QFT ;)
Ouch, I meant "big", tho
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:31:26 +0100, Momesso Andrea wrote:
> Sure, I've used per-package optimizations myself in some particular
> cases, but that's not the point.
>
> A package manteiner *should* know better than an average user which
> optimizations will tune better their own package.
But the us
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:19:39 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Sebastián Magrí wrote:
> > Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system
> > works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the
> > best for you.
>
> I don't get that argument. I didn't
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 14:31 +0100, Momesso Andrea escribió:
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:45:50AM -0430, Sebastián Magrí wrote:
> [snip]
> > >
> > > Often on gentoo related IRC chanels comes someone who asks why his
> > > firefox-bin (or openoffice-bin or *-bin) runs faster than his
> > > built-
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
> Except that what you build and maintain isn't a "distro", it's
> a single machine.
Why?
--
Neil Bothwick
WinErr 01B: Illegal error - You are not allowed to get this error.
Next time you will get a penalty for that.
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribió:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote:
>
> I personally don't view Gentoo as a "distro" in the traditional sense. To
> me, it's a build system, an app - portage or paludis - and the devs that
> make cool input
With unit processors approaching up to 128 Cores on a single GPU I can
see why the guys at all those institutions want to put EL lights in
their big hawking 4 card SLI rigs?
That's like 1600 Cores on a single system, Even Blue Gene L only has
Dual Core PowerPC 440's, whith AMD's 4870 having 800 SP
On Mittwoch 04 Februar 2009, Momesso Andrea wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter
> > > of performance optimization but
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:01:19 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > If I wanted a "learn Unix" distro, I would be using Slackware :P
>
> s/Slackware/Linux From Scratch/
That just teaches you to read and repeat the same commands over and over.
You learn about Linux by administering it, not installing i
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:19:17 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> Except that what you build and maintain isn't a "distro", it's
> >> a single machine.
> >
> > Why?
>
> Do you distribute what you're building as a something for
> others to use to install Linux? I don't, and none of the other
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package
> optimiziations override the benefit of having arch specific
> optimiziations that gentoo allows?
That can only be answered with valid benchmarks on paper in front of yo
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 03:59:44PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> > My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package
> > optimiziations override the benefit of having arch specific
> > optimiziations that gentoo allows?
>
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 7:17, Grant Edwards escribió:
> On 2009-02-04, James wrote:
>
>> Grant Edwards visi.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system
>>> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source. The main
>>> benefit claimed fo
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
> Sebastián Magrà wrote:
>
>> Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system
>> works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the
>> best for you.
>
> I don't get that argument. I did
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 16:25, Grant Edwards escribió:
> On 2009-02-04, Jes?s Guerrero wrote:
>
>> El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribi?:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I personally don't view Gentoo as a "distro"
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 17:19, Grant Edwards escribió:
> On 2009-02-04, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Except that what you build and maintain isn't a "distro", it's
>>> a single machine.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>
> Do you distribu
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 18:48, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
> Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
>> El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
>>
>>> Sebastián Magrà wrote:
>>>
>>>
Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux
system works, and rea
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:07 AM, James wrote:
> Paul Hartman gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> >> of
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to
> > do all the work by yourself to install it. What you describe is
> > just the regular update/install process, which is simple enough
> > as you said.
>
> It was very e
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 18:55:07 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 03:59:44PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> > > My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package
> > > optimiziations override the ben
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 22:24 +0200, Alan McKinnon escribió:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to
> > > do all the work by yourself to install it. What you describe is
> > > just the regular update/inst
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Sebastián Magrí wrote:
> El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 22:24 +0200, Alan McKinnon escribió:
>> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> > > Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to
>> > > do all the work by yourself to instal
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 7:07, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
> Sebastián Magrà wrote:
>
>> The installation experience with the traditional method must be
>> mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is
>> deprecated...
>
> That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity if it'
On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
> There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, "masochists", live in
> peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do
> with our privacy? :P [it's a joke, in case anyone didn't notice]
>
> There have been several attempt
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Sebastián Magrí wrote:
> > The installation experience with the traditional method must be
> > mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is
> > deprecated...
>
> That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity if it's not eas
Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
> By the way, did I already said that anyone that can read can also
> install Gentoo? Lost of people with no experience with linux did
> it with very little or no help.
>
>
I used Mandrake 9.1 for a little while then tried to upgrade to 9.2. I
installed Gentoo the hard
Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
>> There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, "masochists", live in
>> peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do
>> with our privacy? :P [it's a joke, in case anyone didn't notice]
>>
>
On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:57:38 Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
> >> There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, "masochists", live in
> >> peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do
> >> with our priva
Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:57:38 Dale wrote:
>
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>>>
There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, "masochists", live in
peace. We love pain, why do people c
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>
>> On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>> Sebastián Magrí wrote:
The installation experience with the traditional method must be
mandatory... That's why I think we are
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 9:11, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
> Jesús Guerrero wrote:
>
>> El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 7:07, Nikos Chantziaras escribió:
>>
>>> Sebastián Magrà wrote:
>>>
>>>
The installation experience with the traditional method must be
mandatory... That's why I th
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:13:54 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in
> > a different manner to the way the thing will be used.
>
> Because installation is boring. The easier it is, the better.
There is an automated installer in
> A downside is that you'll need fast machines to comfortably build
> packages. I wouldn't use it on my Pentium 3 800Mhz for example. That
> would take ages to compile system/world with recent GCC versions. I
> guess GCC was much faster in the 2.x versions back then?
How painful is it, really,
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Steven Lembark wrote:
>
> How painful is it, really, to run the job when you
> are asleep or away from the machine? Cron the update
> or use "at" to get the changes you want when you are
> away from the console.
>
Not painful, uncomfortable: When I get back home m
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> Sebastián Magrí wrote:
> >>> The installation experience with the traditional method must be
> >>> mandatory... That's why I think we are better now
my style has always been to get the minimal installer. chroot, install
kernel to my specs then boot to hard drive, then start building it to
how i want it built.
the handbook is pretty specific and straight-forward. one just has to
follow it. i've done N installs over the years and i still
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:.
> >
> >>> I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in a
> >>> different manner to the way the thing will be used.
> >>
> >> Bec
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> wrong. The installation needs a certain difficulty to keep idiots away.
>> Nobody needs idiots (except maybe ubuntu).
>
> That is insulting. My mother uses Ubuntu. Thanks for calling her an idiot.
> Obviou
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:36:45 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Great thinking. Fortunately, there are people (like the Ubuntu folks)
> who don't think that way and are trying to make Linux more popular to
> people who need a computer to do tasks that are not related to the
> computer itself.
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:22:35 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > How painful is it, really, to run the job when you
> > are asleep or away from the machine? Cron the update
> > or use "at" to get the changes you want when you are
> > away from the console.
>
> Well, to answer you question, it i
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:.
>
> > I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in a
> > different manner to the way the thing will be used.
>
> Because installation is boring. The easier it is, the better.
wrong. The installation needs a certain d
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 02:26:40AM -0600, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:57:38 Dale wrote:
> >
> >> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
> >>>
> There are enough easy-to-use distros. L
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>
>>> On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:.
>>>
>>>
> I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in a
> different
Cocoy Dayao wrote:
> my style has always been to get the minimal installer. chroot, install
> kernel to my specs then boot to hard drive, then start building it to
> how i want it built.
>
> the handbook is pretty specific and straight-forward. one just has to
> follow it. i've done N installs over
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Saphirus Sage wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> >>> On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:.
> >>>
> > I can't think of a single reason why the instal
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-02-05, Dirk Uys wrote:
> > The type of user I don't like is the ignorant type. Innocent
> > users are ok, they don't know, but ignorant users choose not
> > to know.
>
> Surely there are things you use without knowing how they work.
> Y
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:26:30 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
> If you can spend a week installing Gentoo, it's not a problem.
> If you need to have a machine up and running in an hour, it's a
> problem. Building OOo on the last install I did took well over
> 30 hours.
The GRP packages were cert
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Stroller wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> To be honest, I am surprised this notion of "optimised executables" has
>> stuck around long enough that you've heard it, but it's an old joke to many
>> of us who were around in 2004.
>
> But AFAIK, it *was
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Stroller wrote:
> > [...]
> > To be honest, I am surprised this notion of "optimised executables" has
> > stuck around long enough that you've heard it, but it's an old joke to
> > many of us who were around in 2004.
>
> But AFAIK, it *was*
On 2/5/2009 7:01 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
no. He is an idiot if he does not read the docs. Simple. Like people who don't
read the manual to their car or vcr and then complaining if something does not
work. Idiots.
"They should read the manual" is *not* a valid design goal for a system.
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 2/5/2009 7:01 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > no. He is an idiot if he does not read the docs. Simple. Like people who
> > don't read the manual to their car or vcr and then complaining if
> > something does not work. Idiots.
>
> "They s
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