Okay let me get this straight.
It's "okay" to use fake clients as long as you aren't using them as
hard as the other guy.
It's "okay" to not use proper tags on your server as long as you
aren't lying too much.
It's "okay" to bend the rules just because, like, Valve isn't fair and
they should mak
Lotus and Skial both run clean servers. I can personally vouch for Lotus as
I not long ago played there all the time. Some other communities though, on
the other hand..
Let's just hope Fletcher and Co do something about the reports I and others
have made sooner rather than later.
_
Bottiger,
I apologize I was not aware of this bug and I am looking into it now. I am
getting respawn times between 14-18 seconds on blue. I will test this out. I
already sent a message to Fletcher Dunn as well with an apology as well. I also
apologize to Brian from Lotus as well. I was way out
No that is not the point. There has been multiple reports about it on
the mailing list back several years with no fix from Valve because
they do not deem it important enough to fix. Our servers are not
affected because we have a private fix that we spent many hours
figuring out, not because we are
There are reports of it. I think I googled it some time ago and it's been a
bug for a few years now. It happens if you set the bots to join the server
without humans. Let me see if I can find it.
http://forum.i3d.net/hlds-valve-windows-newsletter/153873-hlds-bug-bots-attack-defense-respawn-times.h
Thats not my point. Lotus and Skial both use bots and if there is a bug causing
elevated respawn times there should be a documented fix or at least reports of
the issue.
- Original Message -
From: "Jay Singh"
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:41:38 PM
Subjec
Disable bots.
> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:40:26 -0400
> From: pettit.t...@gmail.com
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
> tags OK?
>
> If you can point me to where this is cited and a fix I will gladly apologize.
> I
If you can point me to where this is cited and a fix I will gladly apologize. I
am getting respawntimes on Goldrush on blue between 14-18 seconds.
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Simon"
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:24:54 PM
Subjec
You probably have bots. As I said, bots mess with the spawn times.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Todd Pettit wrote:
> Ok, I might be way off base here that wiki he posted says the max time on
> Goldrush for blue should be 8 seconds. I am getting 16-18 seconds. I know
> my respawntimes are def
Ok, I might be way off base here that wiki he posted says the max time on
Goldrush for blue should be 8 seconds. I am getting 16-18 seconds. I know my
respawntimes are default. Am I missing something?
- Original Message -
From: "Essay Tew Phaun"
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mai
Should probably stop. This thread has a lot of valid complaints and some
good thoughts. Let's not ruin it completely.
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Oh so after the policy was announced and all your servers disappeared you were
on vacation? Who do you think you are fooling.
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Simon"
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy
The mailing list isn't the place for petty fights between your
"communities", please take it elsewhere.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
> Well, I'm too good to die 40 times in a row, so there would be no way for me
> to figure out.
>
> :)
>
> _
Empty servers don't really count now do they? Especially empty servers with
bots. Bots mess with the respawn times due to Valve's buggy code, so we
have plugins to fix this. This issue with bots and respawn times has been
reported to Valve before and they confirmed that it is a bug, but have not
fi
t to trick folks in to playing.
--
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:21:43 -0700
From: Essay Tew Phaun
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-I
Well, I'm too good to die 40 times in a row, so there would be no way for
me to figure out.
:)
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Bottiger you lie. Brian Simon you lie too.
It does mean that it can be less than 10 seconds sure. But I just took a blu
character and died 40x in a row on one of your empty servers and then on Lotus
where it should not be less than 10 seconds. Guess what 40x in a row, 8 second
respawn. You can
I am not the owner of Game Liberty and you are not compliant. I just checked
your servers and blu has a 8 second respawn for all ten deaths. You also have
been de-listed for fake clients so lets call a spade a spade, ok. Should I list
your non-compliant servers. Just cause you renamed the plugin
Maybe they should get whoever is writing those novel length blog posts to
take 10 minutes to survey some of the servers reported for fake clients.
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it would be pretty snazzy to see fast respawn not penalized as
severely as long as the tag was present. Someone a bit earlier back
posted a nicely written observance that summarily stated this:
If you run a community and pay it attention, have good admins, are an
enjoyable personality(s), then
Skial is fully complaint with the policy of truth. I have to ask
whether you are familiar with the fact that a default respawn time can
mean faster than 10 second respawns, even for the blue team.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Respawn_times#Respawn_Waves
There are servers out there violating
I have video recordings from multiple servers of yours showing that over and
over 100 percent of the time the Blu and Red respawn times are decreased and
always the exact same amount of time.
Your tags do reflect any of this. If you are not aware of this you better check
your servers because you
Bull! Since when? This afternoon. What a crock!
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Simon"
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:05:31 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK?
LotusClan does
You're making the assumption that because people are here complaining about
servers and communities breaking a policy that we have servers dead 24/7.
It's just quite annoying having communities outright breaking the policy,
getting reported (multiple times) and still nothing is done about it. I
kn
Okay, seriously guys, this list's occupants are great most of the time,
but sometimes a thread makes me feel like I'm on the World of Warcraft
forums.
Speculation is fun and all, but until an official statement comes in,
that's all it can be: Speculation.
Just please, before posting, think a
LotusClan does nothing of the sort. We are in complete compliance with the
Policy of Truth.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Todd Pettit wrote:
> Sweet Lord. Lotusclan and Skial are doing it so are Wonkagaming.net and so
> is Battlegrounds who is coincidentally using fake clients as well and the
I agree with that but that is a choice you have to make as an admin. There is a
big difference between following the rules and suffering the penalty for making
the choice to run a more than 24 player server and disabling the
increased_maximum players and respawntimes sv_tags so you can avoid the
Over 32.. ment to say over 24.
-ics
1.8.2012 0:41, ics kirjoitti:
My point was that the servers running over 32 slots, faking tags and
with modified respawn times receive the traffic that normally would go
to good behaving over 24 slot server that has a penalty for increased
slot count. It's
My point was that the servers running over 32 slots, faking tags and
with modified respawn times receive the traffic that normally would go
to good behaving over 24 slot server that has a penalty for increased
slot count. It's a small part of quickplay traffic but still.
After quickplay came i
- Original Message -
From: "ics"
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:51:40 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without tags
OK?
So in light of what you just implied on 32 slot servers running fast
respaw
Sweet Lord. Lotusclan and Skial are doing it so are Wonkagaming.net and so is
Battlegrounds who is coincidentally using fake clients as well and they sure as
hell know they are in violation because they have all been de-listed for using
fake clients. That right there is 250-300 flagrant violator
So in light of what you just implied on 32 slot servers running fast
respawn and faking it, i had my own 30 slot servers forcibly turned to
24 slots due to lack of real players. Not alone by the slot count, i
also run custom maps on them but partly. There were also a lot of
official maps on the
I just think people have to be careful in thinking that everything comes
down to back & white. I'll give you a specific example:
A few months ago when I had the fast respawn plugin we use re-written by a
Sorucemod coder to insure it added the proper sv_tags, an error was
introduced that went unnot
I am fine with changing the policy. In fact I wish they would since the vast
majority of popular communities are using fast respawn. It is obvious players
prefer faster respawns especially on 32 player servers.
Right now though servers in compliance are penalized for obeying the rules. If
you re
Yeah I kind of feel like an outright ban for the spawn timing thing is
slightly overkill. But, at the same time, this policy has been in place
long enough to where you would think there aren't any Admins/Owners who
aren't aware of it. That seems to make it more of a foul in my opinion.
What I'm re
The policy is clear and has been in place for months. Admins using fake clients
were not warned and several of those are the current violators. Ban them. They
are repeat offenders and they are masking it. They took the risk. They are
aware of the policy. It is not sour grapes. Some servers are i
Fair thing would be following the rules that Valve has placed in.
Obviously there always will be rulebreakers but their numbers would
significantly decrease either by temporarely punishements or by more
permanent.
Obviously there will be those who get banned and say "Valve killed our
servers"
Meh - I think "delisting/banning" servers for merely altered spawn times is
killing a mosquito with a sledgehammer. Remove them from quickplay? Sure -
why not...but if their only "violation" (which, I would guess, many server
operators are ignorant of) is changing spawn times, then the thing that
p
Technically you still break the rules because the rule talks about
misrepresenting gameplay on the server ie no gravity, all crits, fast respawns
not reported correctly in sv_tags.
The only real reason to even need those plugins is to violate the policy
otherwise it iss so simple to add mp_resp
Is it really that hard to unload the plugin on maps where it is not being used?
sm plugins unload tf2_fastrespawns.smx...
Your point is taken but that is not what is happening by and large.. It is even
easier to join a server and kill yourself and count the seconds till you
respawn. Repeat. It
I would add that most of these admins are willingly violating this policy. Many
of them used to have FASTRESPAWN in their hostnames and once this policy went
into effect the plugin was renamed and the FASTRESPAWN disappeared. This policy
has been in place for months and Fletcher Dunn has only re
It's failrly easy. If you enable that plugin that breaks the rules, you
disable quickplay traffic with cvar tf_server_identity_disable_quickplay
1. In that case, you do not break the rules.
How can you expect Valve to save you if the plugin creators are ignorant
of their rules. What you are as
The point is - that's impossible to do fairly. We DO run that plugin, but
on the maps where it is disabled (i.e. "sm_respawn_time_enabled "0") that
plugin is technically still RUNNING, but since fast respawn is disabled,
the sv_tag is not set.
See my point - you can't just poll a bunch of servers
I also have some servers that are 32 players with the appropriate tags that are
established. My point is if I changed over to the fast respawn plugins and took
advantage of quickplay I could have it rolling in less than a week. I never
said it was impossible its just not an even playing field. T
I think that these plugins that Todd posted are really breaking the
rules of quickplay and the owners should be punished accordingly. They
might not do it willingly, might have just grabbed a plugin and now know
about the rules of quickplay. Then again, if they registered their
servers to recei
Olsen, it sounds more to me like you've been building your community for a
while, possibly even before Quickplay and have a very solid group of
players. Nowadays, most veteran TF2 players have their own community
servers they visit. I'd wager a guess to say it's nearly impossible to
build a server
Of course I agree that rules should apply to everyone equally.
However, saying that a "*a 32 player server using mp_respawnwavetimes has
no chance against violators of the policy.*" isn't even remotely true. I'm
looking at 10 of my servers that are full (32-players) right now that have
the followi
That is the whole point of my argument. It is very apparent the thousands of
new players who joined after TF2 went F2P prefer fast respawntimes and often
prefer 32 player servers.
However, if you run a server within the rules of Valve's policy of truth you do
not get the benefit of the quickplay
I'd generally agree with you on everything other than fake players that are
specifically designed to FOOL the system that decides whether players
should be sent to it in the first place. No players? No problem, we'll load
Fake Players. If no one reports those servers for breaking a policy,
nothing
If you read my statement I did not call for Valve to ban anyone who uses the
plugin. I called for them to ban all servers who are in violation of the
policy. I did find that of the 39 servers I looked at none of them had modified
their sv_tags. My point is the violations are rampant. Please do
They have the choice. It's called the server browser.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:21 AM, E. Olsen wrote:
> This is where, IMHO, Valve is sending the wrong message with Quickplay.
> While I fully understand that they created and optimized the game for 24
> players, and they want to push people to p
That's what the "server score" system is for. If player's constantly leave
a server as soon as they are placed in it, that server's score will rapidly
decline, and it will get less and less traffic - which is the best way to
do it. Valve has had the wisdom to (for the most part) allow the players t
This is why I think there should be a Modded game tag for the servers.
Or at least some tag for the major plugins. i.e. Saxton Hale, Freak
Fortress. The fact is that were not trying to scoop up players into a
mode that they don't want to be in as they will instantly leave.
On 7/31/2012 10:38 A
I think he was just saying the ones that do not modify the tags correctly
are breaking the rules.
>
>
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Yeah - let's not start saying that simply using that plugin is in violation
of the rules, bud. We run it, but we have modified it to insure the
"respawn_times" is added to the server browser when it is enabled (we also
add the "noquickplay" tag for good measure). Running that plugin is NOT a
violat
We have released an update to Half-Life 1 dedicated servers. This update fixes
a potential vulnerability in the challenge/response protocol uses for out of
band queries (in particular A2S_RULES and A2S_PLAYERS responses). The update
also fixes sprays not functioning correctly when new users join
Yeah this kind of thing I consider a 'minor' violation. Similar to someone
winding up on a Saxton Hale server and it's on a stock map. It'd be really
hard for them to actively monitor for this. Fake players on the other hand..
I've sent several reports to Fletcher about some servers and he has
ack
I am aware that a couple months ago several servers were de-listed for 6
weeks for using FakeClients and Bot plugins.
I am curious though if there is every going to be any enforcement of this
part of the policy:
"ยท Interfering with the mechanisms that advertise modifications to gameplay
rules in
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