Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/05/2013 at 11:04 AM, John McKown said: >Thanks. I am not any kind of expert, but the "otelnetd" UNIX >daemon that I mentioned in a previous post in this thread >_seems to me_ to implement this fairly well. I suspect that Telnet NVT support is required for POSIX and Unix certifica

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <32b4040d-954c-4ca0-9c4f-f472f666c...@yahoo.com>, on 12/05/2013 at 01:38 PM, Scott Ford said: >I always thought VMS was *nix like??? >If not what opsys is it similar too or is it's own thang It's its own thing, although the designers may have picked up some ideas from the PDP-10 side of t

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Wayne Yes sir right on the money Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 6, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > > *d'accord* > > >> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Gilmore wrote: >> >> Google aside, 'ça' has two m

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

*d'accord* On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Gilmore wrote: > Google aside, 'ça' has two meanings: > > o It is an abbreviation of 'cela', a demonstrative pronoun, as in > 'C'est ça!', That's right! . > > o It is also an adverb, 'here' or 'hither', as in 'ça et la', here and > there. > > As

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Google aside, 'ça' has two meanings: o It is an abbreviation of 'cela', a demonstrative pronoun, as in 'C'est ça!', That's right! . o It is also an adverb, 'here' or 'hither', as in 'ça et la', here and there. As Paul Gilmartin all but said, it is always written/printed as 'ça'. If it were writt

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9239984/OpenVMS_R.I.P._1977_2020_ On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Scott Ford wrote: > I always thought VMS was *nix like??? If not what opsys is it similar too or > is it's own thang > > Scott ford > www.identityforg

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Gil, Your correct it's an idiom..slang...more or less...in 3 yrs in Switzerland I learned I needed a better accent to speak French and Swiss German and don't ask for items in French in a Swiss German canton or State..it ain't pretty Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdo

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Tony Harminc wrote: >Unfortunately that takes me to https://www.google.ca, which doesn't >seem to have a "search tools" choice. I can force Google to go to the >.com (i.e. US) site, but it's still HTTPS, and it still has no search >tools that I can see. And merely quoting a phrase doesn't (contrary

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 07:34:48 +1100, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >Literal translation would be "that goes", ca va is a shortened "comment ca >va", ie how goes it(that)?. OK would be ca va bien. Without bien it's >meaningless in the context. Bien would be the OK piece, ie fine > Think "idiom". Firs

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Gil and R.S., I was curious about VMS because I haven't worked on that platform. Worked many others in a past life supporting LU 6.2 file transfer on 26 platforms. But that was like a lifetime ago. I went from OS/VS2 to VSE to VM/VSE , then MVS so I feel your pain Gil Scott ford www.identit

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

paulgboul...@aim.com (Paul Gilmartin) writes: > And an alien once asked me, "VM is a version of MVS, isn't it?" cms had about 64kbytes of code that was the "os" simulator that allowed "os" compilers and many applications to run unmodified. the burlington mall vm370 development group was working o

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

W dniu 2013-12-05 19:38, Scott Ford pisze: I always thought VMS was *nix like??? If not what opsys is it similar too or is it's own thang In simple words: No. VMS is similar to ...VMS, and maybe older DEC systems which I don't know (RSX-11 AFAIR). Few concepts of VMS: Unix has single root, VM

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Yep..but on Switzerland French shall we say interesting like the Swiss German Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 5, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > > Literal translation would be "that goes", ca va is a shortened "commen

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Literal translation would be "that goes", ca va is a shortened "comment ca va", ie how goes it(that)?. OK would be ca va bien. Without bien it's meaningless in the context. Bien would be the OK piece, ie fine On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Scott Ford wrote: > Hey zMan, > > I entered 'ca v

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:38:46 -0500, Scott Ford wrote: >I always thought VMS was *nix like??? If not what opsys is it similar too or >is it's own thang > What's "*nix like"? On a cursory brush, I believe VMS has a hierarchic filesystem. That's *nix like. It doesn't have an ALLOCATE command. Tha

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I always thought VMS was *nix like??? If not what opsys is it similar too or is it's own thang Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" > wrote: > > In <1mhu99pv4m3ki96ug6d0g46nb44j1bc...@

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) < shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote: > In > , > on 12/04/2013 >at 11:09 AM, John McKown said: > > >NVT? > > See TELNET PROTOCOL SPECIFICATION, RFC 854. > Thanks. I am not any kind of expert, but the "otelnetd" UNIX daemon that I menti

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1mhu99pv4m3ki96ug6d0g46nb44j1bc...@4ax.com>, on 12/04/2013 at 11:16 AM, Clark Morris said: >What was the VMS facility like? Part of the naming syntax was a version number, and there was a command to control how many versions of a specific file to retain. If you omitted the version number

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/04/2013 at 07:46 AM, Phil Smith said: >Well, common sense would suggest >www.google.com. Common sense is frequently wrong. >Try that. BTDT,GTS -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/04/2013 at 11:09 AM, John McKown said: >NVT? See TELNET PROTOCOL SPECIFICATION, RFC 854. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Sh

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/04/2013 at 10:09 AM, John Gilmore said: >We're not dealing with what Google wishes to "honor", Of course we are. >We're dealing with the problem of resolving semantic ambiguity, No. We're dealing with a web page that has labels that do not correspond with what the search engine

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 4 December 2013 19:33, Tony Harminc wrote: >> Well, common sense would suggest www.google.com. Try >> that. > > Unfortunately that takes me to https://www.google.ca, which doesn't > seem to have a "search tools" choice. I can force Google to go to the > .com (i.e. US) si

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 4 December 2013 10:46, Phil Smith wrote: > > Well, common sense would suggest www.google.com. Try > that. Unfortunately that takes me to https://www.google.ca, which doesn't seem to have a "search tools" choice. I can force Google to go to the .com (i.e. US) site, but i

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Hey zMan, I entered 'ca va' in French comes bac as 'okay' which is correct, I lived in Europe and spoke French. Very impressive converting languages Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:09 PM, zMan wrote: > > Or go to

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Or go to Google Translate (translate.google.com). It even handles transliterations quite well: put in "spasebo" and tell it's Russian; it will say: Did you mean: спасебо and then you can translate *that*. I've even had it guess when the transliteration wasn't quite right, and get it right (I conclu

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: > My pet peeve is - when I search a word in a language, not English, then > Google is useless. Try using http://www.google.fr for french words? (use a country suffix where that lanquage is used). -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA W

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

ERV.UA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:16:18 AM Subject: Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers My pet peeve is - when I search a word in a language, not English, then Google is useless. --

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 10:09:08 -0500, John Gilmore wrote: > >We're not dealing with what Google wishes to "honor", We're dealing >with the problem of resolving semantic ambiguity, which humans are >extraordinarily good at and even ther best AI methods cannot reaslly >cope with. > Watson? But how w

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) < shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote: > In > , > on 12/03/2013 >at 06:53 PM, Mike Schwab said: > > >My thought. While you are typing a command with a partial Unix file > >name, leave the cursor at the end of the file name and press a P

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

W dniu 2013-12-04 16:16, Clark Morris pisze: On 29 Nov 2013 14:02:35 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: In <0378217484586824.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/29/2013 at 11:47 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: Again, you discuss the shortcoming of a specific system while I have a

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >What URL? I normally use >. Or are you referring to >a google browser plugin rather than their web site? Well, common sense would suggest www.google.com. Try that. ...phsiii

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

. . . previous post continued [q]ueries and the placement of advertisements. Yesterday we had a discussion of the LE HEAPCHECK facilitiy. Googling it this morning yielded advertisements for cheap personalized bank checks. Given the current state of the art exclusion oif notional irrelevance is

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 29 Nov 2013 14:02:35 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >In <0378217484586824.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on >11/29/2013 > at 11:47 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: > >>Again, you discuss the shortcoming of a specific system while I have >>a broad view. > >You're specific systems; I

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Tony Harminc said: >But for that matter, even Google insists on searching for things vaguely close >to what I asked for, rather then the actual thing. Indeed. I sometimes had to use advanced searches, but you need to search (sic) for that picture of a gear (options), where you can then search (s

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/03/2013 at 04:48 PM, Phil Smith said: >Re Google: What URL? I normally use . Or are you referring to a google browser plugin rather than their web site? >use "verbatim" search. Look under "Search tools", Do you mean "search"? I don't s

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

|| But for that matter, even Google insists on searching for things || vaguely close to what I asked for, rather then the actual thing. | I don't recall google ever honoring a request for an exact match. We're not dealing with what Google wishes to "honor", We're dealing with the problem of reso

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/03/2013 at 06:53 PM, Mike Schwab said: >My thought. While you are typing a command with a partial Unix file >name, leave the cursor at the end of the file name and press a PF >key. Various *ix shells have file completion. Is there an open requirement for IBM to support it for an N

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/03/2013 at 07:00 PM, Tony Harminc said: >But for that matter, even Google insists on searching for things >vaguely close to what I asked for, rather then the actual thing. I don't recall google ever honoring a request for an exact match. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysPro

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/03/2013 at 06:49 PM, Tony Harminc said: >OK. STATUS with no operands doesn't call the TSO >CANCEL/STATUS/OUTPUT exit, but a JES exit can perform job >selection for STATUS using any criteria it likes. Has IBM changed the FIB-JES interface? If not, it can't be done. -- Shmu

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Mike, I like that solution, very nice . Love time savers ...especially when your up to your ...in alligators Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 3, 2013, at 7:53 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: > > My thought. While you are typing a comman

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: > My thought. While you are typing a command with a partial Unix file > name, leave the cursor at the end of the file name and press a PF key. > The routine would open a popup window with a list of possible > matches. You could select a option

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

My thought. While you are typing a command with a partial Unix file name, leave the cursor at the end of the file name and press a PF key. The routine would open a popup window with a list of possible matches. You could select a option by tabbing to the line with the desired match and pressing e

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Tony Harminc mailto:t...@harminc.net>> wrote: >I don't know about OS X, but recent version of Windows have seriousl >"dumbed down" the search interface to the point that it's almost >impossible to distinguish between file names and approximate strings >inside the fi

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Tony, Sloppy coding at google ? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 3, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Tony Harminc wrote: > >> On 2 December 2013 14:02, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 12:30:29 -0600, Eric Chevalier wrote: > [...] >

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 2 December 2013 14:02, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 12:30:29 -0600, Eric Chevalier wrote: [...] >>Now suppose I have some sort of index file where the key is the >>unqualified file name and the data is the path to that file. I can >>search the index for my file name and it should

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 3 December 2013 14:46, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In , > on 12/02/2013 at 06:19 PM, Tony Harminc said: > >>I'm not sure in what sense it replies [sic] on it. > > Consider the STATUS command. OK. STATUS with no operands doesn't call the TSO CANCEL/STATUS/OUTPUT exit, but a JES exit can

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/02/2013 at 06:19 PM, Tony Harminc said: >I'm not sure in what sense it replies on it. Consider the STATUS command. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We don't care. We don't have to care, we'r

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/02/2013 at 02:48 PM, John Gilmore said: >Worth noting, and not at all to clear from, indeed antiothetical >to, the title of this thread is that we are now addressing a >deficiency of UNIX, not one of the MVS side of z/OS. The issue exists in both, in slightly different form. In n

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <529cd1c5.9030...@tulsagrammer.com>, on 12/02/2013 at 12:30 PM, Eric Chevalier said: >I believe the issue some people are trying to address with a Unix >catalog is the case where you DON'T know the full path. A central repository won't solve that problem. >I know it's called "stroganoff.

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 03.12.2013 07:13, David Crayford wrote: On 3/12/2013 4:16 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote: I would guess that the tricky part would be replacing the interface to "inotify" with w_ioctl / Iocc#regFileInt I could be wrong but it looks like Iocc#regFileInt doesn't support monitoring directories, which

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 3/12/2013 4:16 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote: I would guess that the tricky part would be replacing the interface to "inotify" with w_ioctl / Iocc#regFileInt I could be wrong but it looks like Iocc#regFileInt doesn't support monitoring directories, which diminishes it's value. A port of inotify fo

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Kirk, Absolutely, that would be a great , interesting conversion to z/OS Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Dec 2, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Kirk Wolf wrote: > > A list of "desktop search engines" (which actually have little to do with > deskt

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 2 December 2013 11:01, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In <20131201232728.GA25455@dlc-dt>, on 12/01/2013 >at 06:27 PM, "David L. Craig" said: > >>If I remember correctly, the sole reason for limiting TSO IDs to a >>maximum of seven characters was to ensure running batch jobnames >>submit

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Gil, Yes UADS was a PDS and there were some unusual items in UAD that were semi hidden. One I remember stumbling into was CPU time that the user had accumulated since the creation of the ID. Very sneaky (IIRC) . Ed On Dec 2, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Sun, 1 Dec 2013 18:

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

David [Andrews]: 300K data sets all having six-level DSN values suggests that there is a standard in place that enforces their use, and you have implicitly said what it is. What this suggests to me is that four levels are enough for your purposes, leaving two available for DATE.TIME values (or, a

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 2013-12-02 at 15:11 -0500, John Gilmore wrote: > These results strongly suggest---They of course stop well short of > proving---that five index levels is enough. I have a single catalog with 300,000+ datasets, all with six-level DSNAMEs. Maybe an edge case, but there you go. (FWIW it cat

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

A list of "desktop search engines" (which actually have little to do with desktops) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines#Desktop_search_engines Something like Recoil / Xapian could probably be ported to z/OS. I would guess that the tricky part would be replacing the interface to

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Using pooled data from three large shops I found for index-level usage in 28K cataloged PDSs, PDSEs, and GDGs: level, percent | histogram 1, 00 | 2, 41 | 3, 31 |xx 4, 24 |x 5, 05 | These results strongly suggest---They of course stop well short of proving---that five index levels

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 12/2/2013 10:54 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: It's hard to say, but certainly the CVOL data structure is similar to a PDS directory. Considering that they share code in common (e.g., directory initialization and catalog formatting), it's extremely likely. I was wondering about the f

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Worth noting, and not at all to clear from, indeed antiothetical to, the title of this thread is that we are now addressing a deficiency of UNIX, not one of the MVS side of z/OS. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-M

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sun, 1 Dec 2013 18:15:04 -0600, Ed Gould wrote: > >I remember distinctly that UID's were limited to 7 characters. >One of the reasons was that UADS had a directory of 8 characters and >the 8th character was reserved for UID's needing more space in UADS >so a character was reserved (shaky here bu

Re: Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 12:30:29 -0600, Eric Chevalier wrote: > >I believe the issue some people are trying to address with a Unix >catalog is the case where you DON'T know the full path. ... > >Now suppose I have some sort of index file where the key is the >unqualified file name and the data is the pa

Catalog system for Unix Was: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 12/1/13 7:51 AM, Dan Espen wrote: Actually, your whole description is bizarre and I think wrong. With a UNIX file, how do I NOT know where /var/log/messages is? As long as you use a full path, you know where everything is. I believe the issue some people are trying to address with a Unix

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <6aee915e-660b-471b-837c-b2ef76d0a...@comcast.net>, on 12/01/2013 at 06:15 PM, Ed Gould said: >I remember distinctly that UID's were limited to 7 characters. Yes, as was prefix. However, a FQDSN could have an 8-character HLQ. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO p

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <20131201232728.GA25455@dlc-dt>, on 12/01/2013 at 06:27 PM, "David L. Craig" said: >If I remember correctly, the sole reason for limiting TSO IDs to a >maximum of seven characters was to ensure running batch jobnames >submitted by TSO users would never conflict with the TSO session or >each

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1885724251.2483267.1385936064169.javamail.r...@comcast.net>, on 12/01/2013 at 10:14 PM, DASDBILL2 said: >I believe John Gilmore meant that the original S/360 architects >thought that the system should support at least five levels in a >file name and that each level could be as long as eig

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Dave: I remember distinctly that UID's were limited to 7 characters. One of the reasons was that UADS had a directory of 8 characters and the 8th character was reserved for UID's needing more space in UADS so a character was reserved (shaky here but the 8th character was either 0, 1 2 etc)

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 13Dec01:1758-0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In <0905701904337885.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on > 11/30/2013 >at 08:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin said: > > >Is the limit HLQ or TSO prefix? > > TSO limits the prefix to 7; for an explicit FQDSN it accepts an > 8-character HLQ

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 12/01/2013 at 08:27 AM, Mike Schwab said: >TSO appends a prefix of your userid to your data set name unless you >specify quotes. Except when it doesn't. See PROFILE PREFIX. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <3197351753588016.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 12/01/2013 at 08:21 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >I do not want people to shoot the idea down just because I referred >to only one example. The problem is not that you have only one example, it is that you are shooting from the hip inst

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <8649425507335336.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 12/01/2013 at 12:20 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >I have identified the defect pretty well, You waved your hands; you never identified a problem that a central repository would solve. >you refuse to see that definition That would have

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Helped perhaps by the fact that he knows what 'antetypical' means, Bill Fairchild has made my case better than I had made it. I did indeed have [some of] these notions in mind. The more recent development of this thread has pleased me. Vociferous, historically tin-eared objections have been very

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <0905701904337885.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/30/2013 at 08:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin said: >Is the limit HLQ or TSO prefix? TSO limits the prefix to 7; for an explicit FQDSN it accepts an 8-character HLQ. >Do catalog services enforce a limit of 7? No, nor does TSO. --

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

our J.)" To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 4:05:19 PM Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers In , on 11/29/2013    at 02:16 PM, John Gilmore said: >Under OS/360 the notional, antetypical 'longest' index had the syntax

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

paulgboul...@aim.com (Paul Gilmartin) writes: > With a brief exposure to MVS, I started to learn CMS. I was shocked > (briefly) to learn that file names might begin with numeric digits; in > fact be entirely numeric. Why not in OS/360 data set names? In an > era of severe storage and CPU cycle c

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

You keep telling us about an annoying limitation which is not a defect. I agree that at times, it is annoying but it has also proved to be very useful. Also as it age's the user's of the system is changing the pattern of usage. As z/OS ages, the typical end user doesn't know or care what a datas

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

PROF NOPRE? In a message dated 12/1/2013 9:09:20 A.M. Central Standard Time, gerh...@valley.net writes: Sometimes. The value that is prepended is the user id only by default, as the user may set a prefix of 1-7 characters. ---

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 16:55:58 -0600, Anthony Babonas wrote: >Don't forget the hyphen and x'C0'. > Hyphen is strange. JCL allows hyphen in data set names in some contexts; reports it as a syntax error elsewhere. I believe this is documented. ISPF LM services allows hyphen in member names in some

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>I still like using the Linux "locate" command for this. It does a data base >lookup, which is maintained non-real-time via updatedb, and presents a list >of entire path names which match the given input. I may need to look at >getting the source and seeing if I can port it to z/OS UNIX. Locate/up

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>Let me back it up a level: what's the problem you're trying to solve? Are >you trying to make things more user-friendly? I submit that the >unpredictability this introduces would have the opposite effect. This is the kind of reaction that I am waiting for, pointing to things that need to be answ

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, zMan wrote: > Ahhh. So you want the system to find the file "filename" *anywhere that it > exists* when you say "*verb* filename"? > > Hmm. Do I want that? Do I want what worked fine yesterday to stop working > today because a download or unzip created a new "filen

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Ahhh. So you want the system to find the file "filename" *anywhere that it exists* when you say "*verb* filename"? Hmm. Do I want that? Do I want what worked fine yesterday to stop working today because a download or unzip created a new "filename"? Even disambiguation via prompts would be extremel

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 12/1/2013 9:27 AM, Mike Schwab wrote: TSO appends a prefix of your userid to your data set name unless you specify quotes. Sometimes. The value that is prepended is the user id only by default, as the user may set a prefix of 1-7 characters. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>TSO appends a prefix of your userid to your data set name unless you specify >quotes. Don't forget PROFILE NOPREFIX - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access inst

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

TSO appends a prefix of your userid to your data set name unless you specify quotes. Other operating systems assume the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_directory , Working in a shell or script, you can the current directory then you work within that directory. Windows shortcuts can specify whi

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>Ze'ev appears to me to want to graft what are essentially interactive, >conversational facilities onto JCL, which is a batch facility. This >may well be possible, but doing it will require careful thought and >much experimentation/evolutionary operation. I already concluded that the z/OS side ma

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

There is a restaurant near me here, just west of Boston in the United States, that serves 'fusion cuisine', its dishes are a mixture of the ingredients and techniques of Greek, Indochinese, and French cuisine. Some of these dishes are successful, but too many are not: their menu descriptions read

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>>That's correct and that's where I took the idea from. That concept >>needs improvements >No doubt, but so far you haven't identified any defect that a new type >of catalog would resolve. I have identified the defect pretty well, except that you refuse to see that definition and go to circular

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Don't forget the hyphen and x'C0'. Tony's iPhone (with toy keyboard) is responsible for this Email. Please do not snicker. > On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: > > A-Z@#$: 29 characters for the first character, plus 0-9 for up to 7 > additional characters. > 29 One character.

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Paul Gilmartin wrote: >Is the limit HLQ or TSO prefix? On a quick glance, I don't see any catalogued >data sets with an 8-character HLQ. Do catalog services enforce a limit of 7? No. Limit of 7 chars are for TSO ids only. Of course that limit are propagated to datasets starting with TSO ids.

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 08:25:50 -0600, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: > >I believe you can do that with 8 char HLQ, but I need to test it too. About >raising length limits of HLQ, you will have to redesign RACF, JES2 and modules >used to allocate temp dsn. > Is the limit HLQ or TSO prefix? On a quick

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Gerhard Postpischil wrote: >>This could be done except for TSO, due to unfortunate dependences on both the >>high and low portion of the data set name. The designers, in their infinite >>wisdom, chose to define the PSCB to contain a 7-byte user id (or user >>specified prefix), followed by a one

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

A-Z@#$: 29 characters for the first character, plus 0-9 for up to 7 additional characters. 29 One character. 1,131 Two character. 44,109 Three character. 1,720,251 Four character. 67,089,789 Five character. 2,616,501,771 Six character. 102,043,569,069 Seven character. 3,979,699,193,691 Eight charac

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:35:04 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: >On 11/29/2013 3:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> It should be easy to relax the 8-character maximum (except, >> perhaps on the HLQ) without incompatibility with existing data >> areas, even was done for the antetypical 5-level maximum.

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/29/2013 3:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: It should be easy to relax the 8-character maximum (except, perhaps on the HLQ) without incompatibility with existing data areas, even was done for the antetypical 5-level maximum. This could be done except for TSO, due to unfortunate dependences on

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 11/29/2013 at 02:16 PM, John Gilmore said: >Under OS/360 the notional, antetypical 'longest' index had the syntax > I can't speak for release 1, but certainly in OS/360 R14 there was no such limit. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <0378217484586824.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/29/2013 at 11:47 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >Again, you discuss the shortcoming of a specific system while I have >a broad view. You're specific systems; I'm still trying to figure out what it is in them that you want to change. >

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 2013-11-29, at 12:16, John Gilmore wrote: > Under OS/360 the notional, antetypical 'longest' index had the syntax > > > > Then, since values could be at most 8 characters in length, 5 > x 8 + 4 yielded the maximal character count of 44. The 44-character > and 8-character maxima remain;

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Todd Burrell is right. The secondary-school algebra is immediate: n x 1 + n - 1 = 44, 2n - 1 = 44, n = 45/2 = 22.5, floor(22.5) = 22. Twenty-two levels is of course clumsy for human use, but program-constructed indices having so many levels may well be useful in some situations. John Gilmore, A

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

computers. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Babonas Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 2:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers I don't recall the &quo

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