Re: Assembler courses

Hi, At least since 50 years it is understood that structured programming does'nt mean goto less. D. Knuth's response to Dijkstra explains other things:     All the examples are about 15 lines. Knuth shows different versions of the same algo.     As long as you have 15 lines, you can find und

Re: Assembler courses

Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 5:43 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses You may be right; I've never had occasion to try write OO programs on the mainframe. But w

Re: Assembler courses

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2022 11:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses On a screen, wouldn't PF keys be a kind of Object programming? An

Re: Assembler courses

Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bernd Oppolzer [bernd.oppol...@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 1:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses I try to be not dogmatic about GOTO statements, in fact, I am coding COBOL in my money (everyday

Re: Assembler courses

On 2022-09-27 12:14, Hank Oerlemans wrote: My extremely unhelpful advice ? Chuck them in the deep end ! When I was 20 my lovely German boss said write a channel program to scan the CA-1 TMC for some criteria. Many weeks later with BALR and USING and whatever and a hardcopy IPCS manual it worked a

Re: Assembler courses

My extremely unhelpful advice ? Chuck them in the deep end ! When I was 20 my lovely German boss said write a channel program to scan the CA-1 TMC for some criteria. Many weeks later with BALR and USING and whatever and a hardcopy IPCS manual it worked and that's the most complex thing I've ever

Re: Assembler courses

On 26/09/2022 22:40, Seymour J Metz wrote: a && b isif a THEN b else TRUE ? Shirley a && b isif a THEN b else FALSE Short circuit operators can be very nice. Ouups; yes.   thanks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / sig

Re: Assembler courses

LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Peter Sylvester [peter.sylves...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Hi, I have the feeling that the author of https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Z9n56_GZoR00w22sogI3_RQ0O39K_O1yP3HvzHAo2f

Re: Assembler courses

UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 10:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses lol... We definitely need a guide to refracturing code. More seriously, a decent commentary on how to use goto "correctly" would be

Re: Assembler courses

What I like about my "garbage language": since 2011 it is "my garbage language"; I can add new control statements to it and thus eliminate the need for gotos most of the time, because the old use cases of goto now have new solutions (similar to C). And for many other needs like string handling, F

Re: Assembler courses

I did read that, I like reading LT... you don't spend much time wondering what his position really is. While it covers an important use case, and actually covers it pretty thoroughly, it's not a didactic document. Or maybe it is, but I can't find the word I want. Pedagogical maybe? Anyway, some

Re: Assembler courses

From the book "Linux Device Drivers". Error recovery is sometimes best handled with the goto statement. We normally hate to use goto, but in our opinion, this is one situation where it is useful. Careful use of goto in error situations can eliminate a great deal of complicated, highly-indented

Re: Assembler courses

On 26/9/22 10:13, Steve Smith wrote: lol... We definitely need a guide to refracturing code. More seriously, a decent commentary on how to use goto "correctly" would be a nice thing to see. Here you go, just in case you missed it the first time I posted https://koblents.com/Ches/Links/Month-Mar

Re: Assembler courses

lol... We definitely need a guide to refracturing code. More seriously, a decent commentary on how to use goto "correctly" would be a nice thing to see. In my opinion, using it like REXX intends the signal statement to be used is fair. I can't at the moment recall much else that I'd normally wri

Re: Assembler courses

Here is another example of using a cleanup stack https://github.com/eclipse-openj9/openj9-omr/blob/openj9/port/win32/omrsignal.c. That's how we write our C code. SP evangelists would be inclined to nest if statements which would be harder to read and wouldn't pass code review in my team. Of cou

Re: Assembler courses

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 01:21:03 +, Seymour J wrote: >As a companion to "Structured Programming with go to Statements" by DONALD E. >KNUTH, I see a great need for "Spaghetti Code Without go to Statements". >BTDT,GTS. That's almost trivial. Refracture any spaghetti code as a single DO FOREVER

Re: Assembler courses

Sunday, September 25, 2022 8:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses According to Linus you’ve been brainwashed by using a garbage language https://

Re: Assembler courses

According to Linus you’ve been brainwashed by using a garbage language https://koblents.com/Ches/Links/Month-Mar-2013/20-Using-Goto-in-Linux-Kernel-Code/ > On 26 Sep 2022, at 1:43 am, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > > I try to be not dogmatic about GOTO statements, > in fact, I am coding COBOL in my m

Re: Assembler courses

I'm glad someone else is saying this about GOTOs. I was a COBOL developer for years before getting into ACF2, and argued strenuously (and futilely) for limited use of GOTOs at a shop where they'd all fallen for the religious belief that GOTO is Satan. Three clear places where a GOTO can make a

Re: Assembler courses

Hi, I have the feeling that the author of https://github.com/eclipse-openj9/openj9/blob/master/runtime/vm/classsupport.c. might not know/like/understand the && operator. The huge case testing length and values can be contracted into a single if. using     (len = 3 && memcmp(v,"ddd",3)    Ah

Re: Assembler courses

After looking at your example at https://github.com/eclipse-openj9/openj9/blob/master/runtime/vm/classsupport.c I would like to comment: the "goto done" in the first function is only necessary, because in C the return statement serves two purposes: - setting the return value - returning contro

Re: Assembler courses

I try to be not dogmatic about GOTO statements, in fact, I am coding COBOL in my money (everyday) job, and there are lots of GO TOs around; I try to remove them, when I do larger refactoring, but if not, I leave them untouched. But now for another GOTO story. When I started my Stanford Pascal

Re: Assembler courses

I can work without goto for a long time, until suddenly I need it, usually when coding some kind of error logic. Then I'll have to either duplicate code or scoot a section into its own subroutine for no other reason than the lack of a goto. But yeah, it can be confusing later if used when not

Re: Assembler courses

Another thing that makes me incredibly dubious about some of the opinions in these videos is the hackneyed nonsense about "goto considered harmful". The original paper was misunderstood in that all goto statements are harmful and brainwashed a generation. Some of these videos present a trivial

Re: Assembler courses

On 25/09/2022 3:56 pm, Peter Sylvester wrote: On 25/09/2022 05:02, David Crayford wrote: There's some interesting videos here. All entertaining in their own way. It's like any dogma, if you want to believe then you will. If you have spent your entire career using structured programming you pro

Re: Assembler courses

On 25/09/2022 05:02, David Crayford wrote: There's some interesting videos here. All entertaining in their own way. It's like any dogma, if you want to believe then you will. If you have spent your entire career using structured programming you probably think "hell yeah"! Is such a person the

Re: Assembler courses

On 24/09/2022 9:48 pm, Kirk Wolf wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2022, at 6:09 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:18:21 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: Many thanks for these links; I especially appreciate the tutorials by Brian Will "Object-Oriented Programming is Bad", https://www.youtube.

Re: Assembler courses

On a screen, wouldn't PF keys be a kind of Object programming? And how about a online transaction, where one screen updates a particular table in your overall system. And the different transaction ids would be like an Object / function. Just leaves the batch job to use structure programming, becaus

Re: Assembler courses

There's some interesting videos here. All entertaining in their own way. It's like any dogma, if you want to believe then you will. If you have spent your entire career using structured programming you probably think "hell yeah"! On 20/09/2022 5:46 pm, Peter Sylvester wrote: Anyway, here some

Re: Assembler courses

On 25/09/2022 1:12 am, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: IMO, there are some really interesting use cases for such techniques, for example - sort routines where the comparison functions is generic, that is, a function pointer - same for search routines - same for dynamic arrays of structs, indexed by key

Re: Assembler courses

On 25/09/2022 1:38 am, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: The link to the video once again, because it was damaged by my eMail client: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTfhkiAqPw Brian's videos are entertaining but his modus operandi is to take some really bad code and then demonstrate how to refactor it u

Re: Assembler courses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFv8Wm2HdNM All software should be done top down except for the first time Before writing reusable functions/classes/... write usable ones. :-) On 24/09/2022 19:57, Tom Brennan wrote: Since we're drifting, I'm remembering another method I think they called St

Re: Assembler courses

Since we're drifting, I'm remembering another method I think they called Structured Programming or maybe Top Down Programming. I was never an application programmer so I don't know all the terms. But I think I came across it one day while helping a COBOL programmer. Their main routine called

Re: Assembler courses

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 19:12:39 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > >In C, I did this using function pointers. >In Pascal, I can pass procedures or functions to procedure parameters >(procedures passed as >parameters to other procedures), which is virtually the same as function >pointers, but IMO looks nic

Re: Assembler courses

The link to the video once again, because it was damaged by my eMail client: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTfhkiAqPw HTH, kind regards Bernd Am 24.09.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: Sorry for this topic drift, but this is interesting, anyway. IMO, there are some really interesting

Re: Assembler courses

> Behalf Of Bernd Oppolzer > Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2022 10:13 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Assembler courses > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > Sorry for this topic drift, but this is interesting, anyway. > > IMO, there are some really interesting use

Re: Assembler courses

Sorry for this topic drift, but this is interesting, anyway. IMO, there are some really interesting use cases for such techniques, for example - sort routines where the comparison functions is generic, that is, a function pointer - same for search routines - same for dynamic arrays of struct

Re: Assembler courses

On Fri, 23 Sept 2022 at 19:10, Paul Gilmartin < 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: Far worse is the attempt to use OO techniques in non-OO languages. > "Where is this function called?" > "A pointer to it is saved in a struct." > After that, it's anyone's guess. > Years ago I i

Re: Assembler courses

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022, at 6:09 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:18:21 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > > >Many thanks for these links; > > > >I especially appreciate the tutorials by Brian Will "Object-Oriented > >Programming is Bad", > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM1iUe6IofM >

Re: Assembler courses

On 24/09/2022 7:09 am, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:18:21 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: Many thanks for these links; I especially appreciate the tutorials by Brian Will "Object-Oriented Programming is Bad", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM1iUe6IofM Far worse is the attempt t

Re: Assembler courses

On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:18:21 +0200, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: >Many thanks for these links; > >I especially appreciate the tutorials by Brian Will "Object-Oriented >Programming is Bad", >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM1iUe6IofM > Far worse is the attempt to use OO techniques in non-OO languages. "

Re: Assembler courses

Many thanks for these links; I especially appreciate the tutorials by Brian Will "Object-Oriented Programming is Bad", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM1iUe6IofM the tips how to improve procedural programming from minute 33 ca. This is so true, but certain tips require a language more powerfu

Re: Assembler courses

Another example is the pthread library which uses a naming convention that describes the context it's operating on. For example, pthread_mutex_lock, pthread_cond_wait etc. I've used this kind of naming convention myself but I only write Metal/C these days and C++ when using LE. FWIW, the term

Re: Assembler courses

You want an example of object oriented design on the mainframe? I have = no idea what the implementation language is but it could be PL/X, = assembler, C, etc. It does not matter. (It is clearly not a pure C++ = library.) IBM System SSL, a crypto library on z/OS. Every call operates on one part

Re: Assembler courses

https://www.cbttape.org/ftp/asmbook/alnv200.pdf - Assembler Language Programming for IBM System z Servers By John R Ehrman. https://www.amazon.com/Simplified-Approach-Assembly-Language-Programming/dp/0138101191 - I still have my copy https://www.cbttape.org - has lots of examples Take care

Re: Assembler courses

The LE runtime libraries are designed to be called by Assembler programs as well as all currently support compilers. As a developer, you can pick which language is best for the particular task and have that routine be callable by other programs. The book, z/OS Language Environment Writing Inte

Re: Assembler courses

imho, using the LE framework is an excellent idea for beginning assembler programming. You can actually do "Hello World!" in just a few more lines than C. And it lets you defer the gritty details of linkage and DCBs and such until after some visible results are obtained. It's almost as easy as A

Re: Assembler courses

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 4:32 PM Tom Brennan wrote: > Spitting out messages with formatted values was always a hassle for me > in assembler. So years ago I wrote some code to somewhat mimic printf, > and never looked back. Invoked by macros something like this: > > #PRINTF SYSPRINT,'THIS IS LI

Re: Assembler courses

On 20/09/2022 10:56 pm, Michael Stein wrote: I have been coding in C++ and Java for so long OOP is second nature to me now. Well, in C++ I prefer the interfaces using templates. Java has morphed into into a hybrid OO/FP language since the introduction of the Streams API in Java 8. It's common now

Re: Assembler courses

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:31:55 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote: >... >in assembler. So years ago I wrote some code to somewhat mimic printf, >and never looked back. Invoked by macros something like this: > > #PRINTF SYSPRINT,'THIS IS LINE %D OF %D',VAR1,VAR2 > We once did something similar but simp

Re: Assembler courses

Spitting out messages with formatted values was always a hassle for me in assembler. So years ago I wrote some code to somewhat mimic printf, and never looked back. Invoked by macros something like this: #PRINTF SYSPRINT,'THIS IS LINE %D OF %D',VAR1,VAR2 #PRINTF SYSPRINT,'THIS IS STRING %S

Re: Assembler courses

> I have been coding in C++ and Java for so long OOP is second nature to me > now. Well, in C++ I prefer the interfaces using templates. Java has morphed > into into a hybrid OO/FP language since the introduction of the Streams API > in Java 8. It's common now not to code imperative loop statements

Re: Assembler courses

behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2022 3:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses On 19/09/2022 7:59 am, Charles Mills wrote: >> I've never had occasion to try write OO programs on the mainframe. >> to me it seems that

Re: Assembler courses

Hi, 49 years ago I 'stumbled' over Simula 67 (see video 1), well, at the university "informatik 1" course. I had gotten an Algol60 book given to me by my math teacher 2 years earlier. The student a year older learned PL/1. WE had an /168 and the Simula 67 system from the NCC (you can find it on

Re: Assembler courses

On 19/09/2022 7:59 am, Charles Mills wrote: I've never had occasion to try write OO programs on the mainframe. to me it seems that the chief value of classes and class methods is a way of organizing my subroutines and functions and limiting their scope to particular uses which seems to me would b

Re: Assembler courses

Yes. A 4K difference between registers would be USING label,R12,R11,R10 etc. On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:22 AM Brian Westerman wrote: > > Can you do that and use multiple base regs? > > Brian > > On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:32:07 -0500, Paul Gilmartin > wrote: > > >On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:03:34 -0700

Re: Assembler courses

Can you do that and use multiple base regs? Brian On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:32:07 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:03:34 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote: >> >>I prefer to use: >> >>LARL  R12,Constants >>USING (Constants,Constants_End),R12 >> >>thereby dispensing with permanent base regis

Re: Assembler courses

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:03:34 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote: > >I prefer to use: > >LARL  R12,Constants >USING (Constants,Constants_End),R12 > >thereby dispensing with permanent base register coverage for program >executable code. > Constants LOCTR , and LTORG ... then become your friends. -- gil -

Re: Assembler courses

On 9/18/2022 4:15 PM, Tom Harper wrote: Sometimes R15 contains the entry point. If the routine receives control from ATTACHX or LINKX, for instance, and if it is to run in AMODE(64), then it does not. A better solution is to use LARL R12,PROGNAME USING PROGNAME, R12 which has no dependency o

Re: Assembler courses

Yes, I didn't think to put it that way at first but it's a good way of phrasing it: In OO coding I'm creating a number of packages, and I find its easier to organize their interactions (and to remember how they must interact) when I do it that way. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell

Re: Assembler courses

> I've never had occasion to try write OO programs on the mainframe. > to me it seems that the chief value of classes and class methods is a > way of organizing my subroutines and functions and limiting their > scope to particular uses which seems to me would be useful in some > mainframe pro

Re: Assembler courses

On Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 18:16 Tom Harper wrote: > Sometimes R15 contains the entry point. > > If the routine receives control from ATTACHX or LINKX, for instance, and > if it is to run in AMODE(64), then it does not. > > A better solution is to use > > LARL R12,PROGNAME > USING PROGNAME, R12 > > wh

Re: Assembler courses

Sometimes R15 contains the entry point. If the routine receives control from ATTACHX or LINKX, for instance, and if it is to run in AMODE(64), then it does not. A better solution is to use LARL R12,PROGNAME USING PROGNAME, R12 which has no dependency on R15. Tom Harper Phoenix Software Int

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

On Sun, 18 Sept 2022 at 12:16, Farley, Peter x23353 < 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Wow, talk about "nanny state" link protection - have a gander at the > hugely complex mess that René's perfectly reasonable links to the IDCP and > Marist copies of Mr. Ehrman's opus turn

Re: Assembler courses

You may be right; I've never had occasion to try write OO programs on the mainframe. But when I write classes in VBA, I'm not thinking primarily of sending messages between GUI objects (though you may argue that's exactly what I'm doing whether I think of it that way or not); to me it seems tha

Re: Assembler courses

When you enter a program, R15 points to the first byte of PROGNAME. You usually have a USING R15,PROGNAME. If you are going to be calling OS functions or programs, you will copy R15 to another register (often R12), issue a USING R12,PROGNAME and DROP R15,PROGNAME. So when using a label within 4K o

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:35:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Net Nannies embody an advanced technology known as Artificial Stupidity (AS); >this same technology can be seen in rext to voice and voice to text features, >as well as in filters that block legitimate medical sites while failing to >bl

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 18:51:56 +, Robert Prins wrote: >And ahem, human (self-censored) is not trimming the whole fluckin' mess >when you reply to posts. > Ergonomics. It wastes time and energy to press the Delete key so many times. And it may be illegal to remove the originator's legal notice

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

And ahem, human (self-censored) is not trimming the whole fluckin' mess when you reply to posts. Robert -- Robert AH Prins robert(a)prino(d)org The hitchhiking grandfather Some REXX code for use on z/OS ---

Re: Assembler courses

Ah... Visual Basic. OO certainly does make sense with Windows programming (and I assume other GUI's). The idea of the GUI writers to send messages back and forth between "objects" is genius. So each bit of code (say for a button or a text box object) just sits there doing nothing until a mes

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses] Wow, talk about "nanny state" link protection - have a gander at the hugely complex mess that René's perfectly reasonable links to the IDCP and Marist copies of Mr. Ehrman's opus turned into below.

Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

message. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses I haven't read it, but surely nobody could question the credentials of the author

Re: Assembler courses

: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob T Roller [044ef325f6c3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:17 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Learning assembler is like taking latin in high school. It mi

Re: Assembler courses

Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Never used PASCAL? I'm surprised. I haven't learned it yet, but when I first heard about it (it had associative arrays, which I thought of as pretty darned cool) I was fascinated. Bu

Re: Assembler courses

U] on behalf of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Twenty years ago I wrote a few programs for Excel, and didn't see what all the fuss was about: "object-oriented" didn't

Re: Assembler courses

ansen [rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:21 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses I don’t know if someone on the assembler list mentioned this already, but https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fidcp.marist.edu%2Fdocu

Re: Assembler courses

Hi Bob, I think about a USING statement as a "promise" that a register will contain an appropriate address at runtime. The statement: USING MyArea,R9 means (to me): I promise that at runtime register 9 will contain the address of an area that is mapped (described) by the DSECT called My

Re: Assembler courses

I don’t know if someone on the assembler list mentioned this already, but https://idcp.marist.edu/documents/33945/44724/Assembler.V2.alntext+V2.00.pdf/ad61965e-8485-65e1-f385-e5cd56f08c63?t=1551806232272

Re: Assembler courses

Twenty years ago I wrote a few programs for Excel, and didn't see what all the fuss was about: "object-oriented" didn't seem very different from traditional programming that I'd been doing for 25 years. (At the same time I was frequently infuriated at the message "...does not support this prope

Re: Assembler courses

The 2nd edition is selling for $291.03. That's a lot of money for a book. On 2022-09-18 06:09, Arthur Fichtl wrote: You might take a look also at this book, author: Carmine A. Cannatello "Advanced assembler language and MVS interfaces (2nd ed.): for IBM systems and application programmers" h

Re: Assembler courses

On 9/17/2022 9:25 PM, Brian Westerman wrote: I had to take Latin as well, and while I never used it directly trying to communicate with anyone, it has been a great help over the years. Plus, it makes me not sound as dumb as I really am. Uh oh, maybe that's my problem :) I never learned any

Re: Assembler courses

I had to take Latin as well, and while I never used it directly trying to communicate with anyone, it has been a great help over the years. Plus, it makes me not sound as dumb as I really am. Brian On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 22:52:14 -0400, David Spiegel wrote: >Hi Bob, >Based upon your remarks, i

Re: Assembler courses

I used the Struble book also, at La Tech in the '70's (probably '75 or so).  Mine is of the second printing in 1971 and has a 1969 copyright and it is still on my bookshelf.  It is based on the 360; the transition from 360 to 370 was easy in those days..   The price stamped on the title page is

Re: Assembler courses

Hi Bob, Based upon your remarks, it seems as if you're unfamiliar with Exits and reading dumps. BTW, I took Latin in high school and it helped me (albeit indirectly). Regards, David On 2022-09-17 15:17, Bob T Roller wrote: Learning assembler is like taking latin in high school. It might help

Re: Assembler courses

t; Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 1:30 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Assembler courses > > > I learned PL/I, WATFIV, FORTRAN, GPSS, assembler, and a few other > languages in college. Never used any of them. COBOL was an elective, which > I took, and use

Re: Assembler courses

N@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 2:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Never used PASCAL? I'm surprised. I haven't learned it yet, but when I first heard about it (it had associative arrays, which I thought of as

Re: Assembler courses

Delac, that's a name I've not heard in a long, long time (Obi wan Kenobi). Sent from Proton Mail mobile Original Message On Sep 17, 2022, 10:40 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > A textiles company that hired me in 1980 started me out with two DELTAK > courses (I sat in a room with vide

Re: Assembler courses

t; >It was the FORTRAN I learned in engineering college that I never used > > anywhere else. > > > > > >Peter > > > > > >-----Original Message- > > >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > > Of Bob T Roller > > >Sent:

Re: Assembler courses

Never used PASCAL? I'm surprised. I haven't learned it yet, but when I first heard about it (it had associative arrays, which I thought of as pretty darned cool) I was fascinated. But for the first few years it was all BASIC, PL/1, a little FORTRAN. Later it was all COBOL and CLIST. Nowaday

Re: Assembler courses

more than one of those employers. > > > >It was the FORTRAN I learned in engineering college that I never used > anywhere else. > > > >Peter > > > >-Original Message- > >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Bob T Roller > &g

Re: Assembler courses

than one of those employers. > >It was the FORTRAN I learned in engineering college that I never used anywhere >else. > >Peter > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >Bob T Roller >Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:17 PM >

Re: Assembler courses

A textiles company that hired me in 1980 started me out with two DELTAK courses (I sat in a room with video tapes for a few days), one in COBOL and the other in JCL. Got a solid grounding in both, and to this day it's a mystery to me how many professional mainframers can't do JCL. Many of them

Re: Assembler courses

n engineering college that I never used > anywhere else. > > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Bob T Roller > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:17 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Assembler c

Re: Assembler courses

I'm with Mr Farley on this, or at least I would be if I had ever actually learned HLASM. I know assembler programmers who've been very useful in different projects I've been part of - and in my world (security, I mean) it's even more helpful because occasionally one wants to write or update an

Re: Assembler courses

richt- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Im Auftrag von Mike Hochee Gesendet: Saturday, September 17, 2022 20:11 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: Assembler courses Hey Gary, I can't recommend these folks as I haven't actually used their services, but know they offer some as

Re: Assembler courses

I learned in engineering college that I never used anywhere else. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob T Roller Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:17 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler courses Learning assembler is like

Re: Assembler courses

Learning assembler is like taking latin in high school. It might help you on Jeopardy but will not be of much help in real life. I took assembler in college & never used it and never worked at an employer that used it. That’s a dozen+ employers over 45 years. Sent from Proton Mail for iOS On F

Re: Assembler courses

Hey Gary, I can't recommend these folks as I haven't actually used their services, but know they offer some assembler courses (including 'advanced', whatever that means). I've also heard that both BMC and Rocket utilize their training, unconfirmed. Anyway... Darren Surch COO Intersk

Re: Assembler courses

I don't know of any material that supports your goal, but I definitely agree with you that it's a good idea. In particular, starting with relative branches and immediate instructions will make them better programmers from the start. As for reentrancy, I might start with a macro set that provides

Re: Assembler courses

I would suggest you start by writing subroutines that can be called by a COBOL program. This is how I learned. Take a COBOL driver program, and instead of writing paragraphs to do the functions, call an assembler routine. This will help you to learn linkage. Learn to process passed variables, etc

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