: 10/29/2004 10:54:53 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
OK, here's my last word on it: IMHO the photo has no artistic, technical
or novelty merit. It is disturbing/controversial/unpleasant/whatever but
that's all.
Now I'm thinking of a project on these lines myself: a series
Oh, s**t, it's already done:
http://www.toiletmuseum.com/
Nothing new under the sun, eh ?
Jerry Todd wrote:
I, for one, will be looking for your essay.
Say Jerry, interesting coincidence, both you and Shel are using the same
ISP ? And the e-mail originating IP address is 4.243.x.x too ? Or might
it be that
Jerry Todd wrote:
something
Dancing Frog Studio
Calaveras, CA
[Original Message]
From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 10/29/2004 11:26:42 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
Say Jerry, interesting coincidence, both you and Shel are using the same
ISP ? And the e-mail originating IP
Hi,
Saturday, October 30, 2004, 3:36:24 AM, Jerry wrote:
I'm not sure that's the case, but what if it is? So what if they're posted
to make people aware of situations that exist in the world outside of
flowers and landscapes, and apart from digital shmigital cell phone
cameras? That is one
On 29/10/04, Jerry Todd, discombobulated, unleashed:
Not really a coincidence. I'm at Shel's office now. I sometimes get down
to the Bay Area and spend the night there. Since I'm here often enough,
this computer is set up with my own profile. I may have even mentioned
something about our
On 29/10/04, Jerry Todd, discombobulated, unleashed:
Not really a coincidence. I'm at Shel's office now. I sometimes get down
to the Bay Area and spend the night there. Since I'm here often enough,
this computer is set up with my own profile. I may have even mentioned
something about our
On 29/10/04, Shel Belinkoff, discombobulated, unleashed:
Ostein's comment
Who he?? - Ed.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_
, is it not, to
document and report on the world in which we live and to present ideas in
the form of images to provoke thought and discussion.?
Jerry Todd
[Original Message]
From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 10/29/2004 7:17:56 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
It is most
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
This sort of crap is totally absurd.
Shel's image is at the heart of photography, and historically
always has been.
The entire span of publishing photographic images is not to please
everybody's taste
.
Seems like a good reason to give up photography all together. VBG
Kenneth Waller
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
- Original Message
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:03:16 -0600, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
So, to be fair, if we are going to chastise some people for street
photography, we should also castigate those who choose to take prety
pictures of mountain ranges, since they must have a political agenda
as well.
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:58:23 -0400, frank theriault wrote:
(Although I can't figure out how macros of caterpillars or
Environmental Activism.
family snapshots may be political, but I'm working on it).
Conservative Family Values.
TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
- Original Message -
From: frank theriault
Subject: Political Photographs-was: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
(Although I can't figure out how macros of caterpillars or
family snapshots may be political, but I'm working on it).
Think: Putting a face to the mostly unseen for caterpillers
OK, you guys convinced me. Now just let me know, who is better, Bush or
Kerry ?
It depends on how you want to get screwed...
Caveman wrote:
OK, you guys convinced me. Now just let me know, who is better, Bush
or Kerry ?
--
I can understand why mankind hasn't given up war.
During a war you get to drive tanks through the sides of buildings
and shoot foreigners - two
Caveman wrote:
OK, you guys convinced me. Now just let me know, who is better, Bush
or Kerry ?
[muttermuttertrynottogetsuckedintrynottogetsuckedinmuttermutter]
I'll try to hold back ...
... and fail:
-- Glenn, member of the
do it! -And don't
blame others for lack of engagement if they don't approve of your
images. It's not your agenda I dismiss.
sincerely,
Jostein
- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO
OK, here's my last word on it: IMHO the photo has no artistic,
technical or novelty merit. It is
disturbing/controversial/unpleasant/whatever but that's all.
Note how often Shel's photos generate extended discussions. Frank's do too.
The rest of us put up photos and viewers say Nice or offer
Frank wrote:
We either have to say that all photography is political or that none
of it is. (Although I can't figure out how macros of caterpillars or
family snapshots may be political, but I'm working on it).
To be both serious and boring for a moment, this really has a
lot to do with the
Speaking of assumptions, could you (or anyone else) answer the
questions I have interspersed below? I'm quite certain that there's a
fundamental discrepancy between intention and perception here, and it
would make an interesting lesson for me, I think.
If you feel it more appropriate to send it
Hi,
Saturday, October 30, 2004, 5:07:25 PM, Caveman wrote:
OK, you guys convinced me. Now just let me know, who is better, Bush or
Kerry ?
that's an easy one.
--
Cheers,
Bob
På 30. okt. 2004 kl. 21.21 skrev Bob W:
Hi,
Saturday, October 30, 2004, 5:07:25 PM, Caveman wrote:
OK, you guys convinced me. Now just let me know, who is better, Bush
or
Kerry ?
that's an easy one.
A resent study showed that Bush would only have got 3% of the votes
from Norwegians, if they were
Any photo can have a slant.
However, I will note that political posts work both ways. If we don't like
Shel's Down and Out in San Francisco photos and comment on that, we are
posting a political statement just as much as he is. That applies to everything
else on the list as well. If we say no
Like in the PDML FAQ, Graywolf ?
Graywolf wrote:
If we say no one should show cat
photos, or talk about guns, we are trying to force our political agenda
on the list. Usually very loudly.
it?
Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Joseph Tainter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 30. oktober 2004 19:15
Til: pdml
Emne: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
OK, here's my last word on it: IMHO the photo has no artistic,
technical
Interspersed
Jostein wrote:
Speaking of assumptions, could you (or anyone else) answer the
questions I have interspersed below? I'm quite certain that there's a
fundamental discrepancy between intention and perception here, and it
would make an interesting lesson for me, I think.
If you feel it
Hi Shel and all,
A late comment on the original photograph.
I think it is interesting - the idea and the description, which
suggest that people in all walks of life can enjoy breakfast in bed.
It does give me to think, and in that sense it is a good photograph.
I agree with Jostein,
Doug F quoted posted:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:58:23 -0400, frank theriault wrote:
family snapshots may be political, but I'm working on it).
Conservative Family Values.
Or the opposite -- depending on specific content.
ER
If you are referring to the mini-FAQ the contents are based upon a concensous of
many people on the list over many years. I tried to keep my own views out of it
except in a couple of places that I think I clearly made the distinction.
For those who do not know what we are talking about you can
I suppose that might depend on the family...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Doug F quoted posted:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:58:23 -0400, frank theriault wrote:
family snapshots may be political, but I'm working on it).
Conservative Family Values.
Or the opposite -- depending on
Some people have lives of comfort and luxury, and can be entertained by
breakfast in a warm, comfortable bed: juice, toast, coffee, the morning
paper, all delivered and presented by someone who cares for them. Others
don't have quite the same luxuries, but still can enjoy a simpler, and
perhaps
Hi,
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/b-in-b.html
That's weird. If I was in that social position, I would not be
comfortable making my pitch in the middle of the pavement. It looks
almost posed.
BTW, did you ever manage to resend the cheque? I can't get through to
you
Good photo, Shel - your photos are often a wake-up call to those of us more
fortunate.
Maris
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Some people have lives of comfort and luxury, and can be entertained
by breakfast in a warm, comfortable bed: juice, toast, coffee, the
morning paper, all delivered and presented
]
Subject: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
Some people have lives of comfort and luxury, and can be entertained by
breakfast in a warm, comfortable bed: juice, toast, coffee, the morning
paper, all delivered and presented by someone who cares for them. Others
don't have quite the same luxuries, but still
Absolutely boring. No novel subject, no interesting framing, point of
view, lighting or postprocessing whatsoever.
The only interesting part is that you are attracted to do this every so
often.
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/b-in-b.html
might want to make two scans, one for the highlights and one for
the rest, and then combine them afterwards.
Jostein
- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:57 PM
Subject: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
Some people
David Madsen wrote on 10/29/2004, 4:12 PM:
Isn't it amazing how one's perspective is influenced by one's situation.
For instance, when I first looked at the photo I saw dispair and felt
lucky
that I was not in that situation. Upon closer inspection I noticed
that the
woman is
: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
Some people have lives of comfort and luxury, and can be entertained by
breakfast in a warm, comfortable bed: juice, toast, coffee, the morning
paper, all
Hi Mike,
She wasn't making a pitch at all. She wasn't asking anything from anyone.
For whatever reason she just wanted to stretch out there and enjoy whatever
comfort she could take from that place at that time. She didn't even ask me
for anything, and we spoke for a while. As for her posing,
Somehow, Maris I don't think ~you~ need a wake-up call ... some people,
however, most certainly do.
Shel
[Original Message]
From: Maris V. Lidaka Sr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Good photo, Shel - your photos are often a wake-up call to those of us
more
fortunate.
Maris
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Hi,
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
She wasn't making a pitch at all.
The barrier of a common language rears its head again. I meant pitch as
in camping, not as in place to sell your wares. It's such an odd place
for some one to have (presumably) slept, that it looks like you have
said to a model We
Hi,
Friday, October 29, 2004, 9:50:56 PM, Shel wrote:
Hi Mike,
She wasn't making a pitch at all. She wasn't asking anything from anyone.
Hi,
She wasn't making a pitch at all. She wasn't asking anything from anyone.
I don't think Mike meant it that way. Over here if you pitch a tent it
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:57:14 -0700, Shel Belinkoff
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Some people have lives of comfort and luxury, and can be entertained by
breakfast in a warm, comfortable bed: juice, toast, coffee, the morning
paper, all delivered and presented by someone who cares for them. Others
You look but you do not see ... tis a shame you are so jaded and cynical.
She's smiling, there's direct eye contact, and she's not the least bit
grumpy with my presence. Your comments are worthless since you've made
them based on unwarranted assumptions and lack of observation. In
addition,
On 29 Oct 2004 at 17:59, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
My comments were not to evoke sympathy, but to show a similarity between
two extreme segments of the population. Both can enjoy a pleasant morning
breakfast in bed regardless of social and economic class or their physical
situation. It's sad
At this point, Rob, I don't give a rat's ass ... thanks for your kind
suggestion though. Anyway, the comments to which I was referring was the
comparison between to two socio-economoic classes and Ostein's comment that
I was trying to evoke sympathy while I am trying to show a commonality.
I'm
It is most evident now that you post these pics here with the purpose of
starting social/political debates and not artistical/technical ones
related to photography. May I suggest some other controversial subjects
like guns/abortion/religion. This would help make the list perfectly
unreadable.
and report on the world in which we live and to present ideas in
the form of images to provoke thought and discussion.?
Jerry Todd
Dancing Frog Studio
Calaveras, CA
[Original Message]
From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 10/29/2004 7:17:56 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:13:31 -0400, Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is most evident now that you post these pics here with the purpose of
starting social/political debates and not artistical/technical ones
related to photography. May I suggest some other controversial subjects
like
This is good by itself, but strongest in combination with your other photos.
What are you going to do with these? An exhibition? A book? A magazine
spread?
I hope you'll do something with them.
Joe
Decorate his livingroom ?
Joseph Tainter wrote:
This is good by itself, but strongest in combination with your other
photos.
What are you going to do with these? An exhibition? A book? A magazine
spread?
I hope you'll do something with them.
Joe
frank theriault wrote:
Whatever you think of Shel's photo, that's all it is: a photo.
I objected to his social/political rant, not to him taking photos.
I don't understand why it is that Shel is accused of starting debates,
or having political motives, or of having an agenda. Why is it that
no
Well said, Frank!
Bruce
Friday, October 29, 2004, 7:43:21 PM, you wrote:
ft On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:13:31 -0400, Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is most evident now that you post these pics here with the purpose of
starting social/political debates and not artistical/technical ones
- Original Message -
From: Jerry Todd
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
I'm not sure that's the case, but what if it is? So what if
they're posted
to make people aware of situations that exist in the world outside
of
flowers and landscapes, and apart from digital shmigital
Except when we want to post here:
http://tinyurl.com/2j58
William Robb wrote:
In our world, the sun is always over our right shoulder, and there are
nice fluffy clouds, dancing and playing at making interesting shapes.
The girls are always wholesome and beautiful, the boys are manly and
heroic.
PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
frank theriault wrote:
Whatever you think of Shel's photo, that's all it is: a photo.
I objected to his social/political rant, not to him taking photos.
I don't understand why it is that Shel is accused of starting debates,
or having political
Looking for some fisting, Jerry ?
I have *very* large hands.
Jerry Todd wrote:
May I humbly suggest you put on
a pair of proctologist's gloves.
True, Jerry. I personally have no problem with folks posting politically
controversal photos as long as they personally took them. God what a boring
world it would be if all we could look at are flowers, bugs, and waterfalls.
--
Jerry Todd wrote:
I'm not sure that's the case, but what if it is?
English word pitch is used to denote pitching a tent, in other words
camping...
(In this case urban camping).
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Hi Mike,
She wasn't making a pitch at all. She wasn't asking anything from anyone.
For whatever reason she just wanted to stretch out there and enjoy whatever
]
Date: 10/29/2004 10:00:24 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
Looking for some fisting, Jerry ?
I have *very* large hands.
Jerry Todd wrote:
May I humbly suggest you put on
a pair of proctologist's gloves.
Studio
Calaveras, CA
[Original Message]
From: Graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 10/29/2004 10:01:49 PM
Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Breakfast in Bed
True, Jerry. I personally have no problem with folks posting politically
controversal photos as long as they personally
OK, here's my last word on it: IMHO the photo has no artistic, technical
or novelty merit. It is disturbing/controversial/unpleasant/whatever but
that's all.
Now I'm thinking of a project on these lines myself: a series of pics of
soiled decrepit public toilets. We need to do something about
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