Spot on, Greg! If this was Discourse I'd just leave a heart emoji, but since I have to type a reply anyway, I'd like to address some components of what makes communication civil and collaborative: 1. Assume positive intent until proven otherwise. 2. Don't assume that the reader's background knowledge and context is the same as yours.
I believe that these transcend any American/German cultural differences. There are other components as well I'm sure, but if we violate either of these in our writing, then our messages we come off as uncooperative at best. Both writers and readers need to keep these in mind, though I believe that the writer has a more immediate responsibility to show the intent of their words, especially if they want to be understood by a global audience. On Thu, May 4, 2023, 8:46 AM Greg Troxel <g...@lexort.com> wrote: > "Brian M. Sperlongano" <zelonew...@gmail.com> writes: > > > I would caution against hyper-simplifying the combativeness of the > mailing > > lists as "cultural differences". I can think of several German > participants > > on Slack and Discord that dispel this stereotype. Similarly, I can think > > of several American commenters who are notoriously abrasive on the > mailing > > lists. > > +1 to Brian's comment. Going further, I think a "we are having problems > from cultural differences" is more than an over-simplification -- I > think it is basically an incorrect conclusion. > > I lived in a dorm that had about 25% people from US/Canada (which I know > aren't the same place but they aren't so far off culturally :-) and 75% > from a very large number of other countries. For a year I served as > dorm president and thus had a clearer view of conflicts. My experience > was that people mostly got along, and when they didn't, it was almost > always because some individuals were just fundamentally unkind and > unreasonable. It didn't matter what country they came from; I knew nice > people and jerks from many countries (although nice or nice-enough > people were the overwhelming majority). Yes, there were some obvious > differences in degree of directness, but those were not the problems. I > have seen this same pattern in the online world -- it is 90%+ about > individuals and how they approach others, not about national culture. > > I have also participated in NetBSD, and there too most people try to > work together to achieve project goals despite differences. I can think > of several problematic people over the years -- surely the same as any > other project if you knew the details -- and for obvious reasons I won't > give any details. But I will say that I know which countries they are > from, that I also know many people from those same countries that are > courteous and constructive, and that I don't think the problems are > about national culture -- they are firmly individual. > > So I would say that the biggest issue is that some people are just not > trying to be collaborative and are the kind of basically unkind people > that I would avoid entirely in offline life. The second biggest issue > is a practice of giving a very short blunt opinion with no willingness > to try to communicate the subtleties -- and I mean this over the medium > term, rather than condemning anyone for a single short email where they > say what they think succinctly. > > As for strongly-held beliefs about licensing, I think that's perfectly > ok. (IMHO we believe in open data, and a lot flows from that ethically, > but I realize not everybody sees it that way.) I also don't see that as > the core cause of uncivility. > > What we really need is for people to be at least civil if not > courteous. That can't really be done with rules; it can only be done in > my experience by shunning a few individuals, and trying to lead by > example. > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >
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