On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 3:38 PM Mike Thompson <miketh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 3, 2023, 1:00 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonew...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I would caution against hyper-simplifying the combativeness of >> the mailing lists >> > I am not sure using a term such as "combative" is going to be effective in > bringing about the change you desire. First the term has strong negative > connotation > Whether it's negative is a value judgment, but it's absolutely my observation. For me, it's descriptive, and I've simply adapted to dealing with it to get things done on the project. So far, the mailing list hasn't gone away as a relevant communication space, though I do agree that its influence is waning. So here I am, dealing with it out of necessity. However, I absolutely believe people when they express disdain for this forum. and second it is non specific. > When I send a message to the list, I craft it with several expectations regarding how it will be received. I expect that every word of any message I send to the lists may be picked apart and quoted out of context. I expect that my motivations may be questioned and that commenters will assume a hidden agenda. I expect argumentation, criticism, judgment, and accusations that I should have known better or been aware of a more correct or expected behavior, principle, or expectation. I expect my personal/professional/project affiliations, nationality, demographics, and socio-economic status to be scrutinized in search of bias. I expect threads to diverge into rabbit holes and meta-discussions. I expect new ideas to be quickly dismissed. I expect the forest may be lost for the trees and for hyper-specific details to be nitpicked. I expect that good-faith proposed solutions to problems may be dismissed without offering alternatives. I expect to be held to an unreasonable or unattainable standard of evidence or performance. That is probably not an exhaustive list, but that's what I mean by combative, and I don't think that minor changes in word choice will change the fundamental nature of how people communicate here. I'm sure I'm not alone in this experience. And worse, to meaningfully participate here, I often feel compelled to engage in many of these same combative behaviors that I'm describing to make my voice heard against this backdrop, so it becomes self-reinforcing. The people you view as combative probably don't see themselves as combative > and don't what specifically is causing you to perceive them as such, and > thus don't know what to do differently. > Indeed. That's why I'm glad that people much smarter than I am on these topics are exploring the problem.
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