[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
Good job, something like this was needed. Unfortunately they will still ask how to hook up and use integrated amps/receivers, especially the volume control. I would also point out that the opening line reads like a poor translation: The Transporter and Squeezebox make a novel configuration option for the stereo system available. Better would be Tx and Sb _provide_ a novel config opt for _some_ stereo systems. Someone will be along shortly to grade you on the science portion :-) -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
There is a wiki page AvReceivers from MarkL there http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?AVReceivers I don't see it linked in anywhere that I can find yet. Thanks for the correction, its a first draft. Change made. -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
azinck3;171414 Wrote: And you did all this without giving the linear any burn-in time? It came from ebay so perhaps it's used, like so many others which seem to have noise/heat issues, in which case it'll have been run-in. If aftermarket power supplies are making noise and getting hot, then they shouldn't be connected at all, let alone compared. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
For those interested, here's an engineering view on the topic http://sound.westhost.com/power-supplies.htm#dc-sound. -- egd Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital Coax - EH???
Phil Leigh;171357 Wrote: Yes, we probably are at cross purposes! My the fibre would be replaced by coax... regards, Phil Nah - you have distances n' stuff to woory about. -- mikeruss mikeruss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9023 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
The lower efficiency of linear power supplies results in them getting hotter than a switching power supply, thats just physics - (the conservation of energy) The hum I referred to is being emitted from the PS (not as signal through the amp) google transformer hum, it appears they all do it to some extent or another - as I say, its very quiet, but it annoyed me... For reference, the power supply I tried was a brand new Power One 5V/3A unit. I'm sort of glad my system can't resolve the differences other people can hear with power supplies; messing about with batteries and tin foil seems like a poor work around to get non-degraded performance from a SB3. -- mick_w http://freespace.virgin.net/mick.webb/ mick_w's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6526 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
I have the SB going into an Adcom gtp600 preamp tied to a 6 zone amplifier that I am able to get all the volume I desire with, but my problem lies in that I took an RCA interconnect to my downstairs Denon A/V receiver to play SB in basement and at full volume I can't get the loudness I am seeking. I split the SB signal after my Adcom GTP 600 and before it goes into my 6 zone amplifier which powers all of my upstairs zones. Should I have split the SB signal some other way? -- chiefersone chiefersone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New SB3 into ECD-1 Dac--channel imbalance?
I just set up my second Squeezebox system, this one in my listening room downstairs (my big system as opposed to the smaller system in my living room where I have had an SB3 and a Benchmark DAC-1 running since Christmas). My big system has an Audio Research VT-100 MkIII amp, BAT VK30SE preamp, and Genesis 500 speakers, and the recently added SB3 running Apple lossless files into the Electrocompaniet ECD-1 DAC (Kimber D60 coax digital cable). This source seems much louder in the right speaker. I tried adjusting the balance on the BAT pre and I had to tweak it +20 to the left channel to get the image focused in the center of the speakers/room again. No other of my sources (Linn TT, Marantz SA-1 SACD player, McIntosh MR67 tuner, Arcam CD-33 CD player) has this imbalance. Is this a problem with the DAC, the SB3, the dig coax cable, or something else? Are my Apple lossless files corrupted? I don't hear the imbalance streaming the same files upstairs. Could the tubes in my ARC or BAT be going out on one side? Wouldn't that create crackles or distortion rather than softer sound? Should I adjust the balance to one side for the SB3 or just forget about it and enjoy the music tilted to one side of the room? -- sc53 sc53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8690 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31819 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New SB3 into ECD-1 Dac--channel imbalance?
The best way to diagnose problems like that is process of elimination. The first thing I'd try is swapping the two SB3's. If you still have the same problem in the downstairs system, it's not that one SB is defective. Then try swapping the DACs, etc. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31819 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
I emailed Bel Canto twice regarding the 'in home' demo and questioned them about the particulars of the 'no risk' policy (Dec / Jan). I never received a response to any of my questions. Shame, as I liked the products I was interested in 'on paper.' -- sonofcolin sonofcolin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
What is the situation with this now? I own CD33 and thinking to do the same thing. Modded SB3 + DAC. I have looked this DAC: http://www.diykits.com.hk/da7.2.html Best regards Fkuti -- fkuti fkuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9713 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
Did you measure the voltage setting on the PowerOne linear(it's adjustable)? Are you sure you had the AC hot and neutral connected correctly? Too low a voltage setting or incorrect mains connections can cause the linear psu to hum. Yes, AC quality can effect power supply performance. I connect my linear via a filtered IEC. mick_w;171247 Wrote: The final nail in the coffin for the linear supply is the fact it gets quite hot (even outside any enclosure) and makes an audible humming sound all the time (very quiet but it bugged me). I'm now back to the standard switcher and I'm very happy (my system sounds fantastic!). Just a thought, there has been lots of comments about the bad quality of mains power supply in various areas of the US (New York has been mentioned as being rather bad in another post), could this influence the difference people are hearing between linear and switching units? -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
I did a review of a full modded Bolder SB with the 750.00 PSU V the Transporter. The TP was clearly better in every respect and I think it would be a waste of money to go the mod route. The full Bolder mods cost more than the TP and doesn't sound as good IMHO. I also tried a stock elpac into the bolder mods and it sounded the same as the 750.00 psu. The ultimate psu is the largest unecessary outlay IMO. I also have a bolder modded elpac and compared it to the stock elpac , no difference. Your best bang for buck is a stock elpac SB into a good dac. Modding the SB just didn't give good results in my system: Watt/PuppiesRowland amps. The TP IS worth the money and gives far superior results IMO. Of course , all this is subjective opinion, only you can decide. But I would never buy something(especially pricey mods) without a lenghty in-home audition -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
Eric Carroll;171438 Wrote: There is a wiki page AvReceivers from MarkL there http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?AVReceivers I don't see it linked in anywhere that I can find yet. That was me. I'm not quite sure where to link it from - I didn't find an appropriate place in the Beginner's Guide. So for now I'll just post the link when I see a question in the forums. For that matter, the Beginner's Guide doesn't have anything on what you connect the Squeezebox to. It looks like we have a good start for putting something in here, we can suggest a home stereo system, a preamp, an integrated amp, direct into a power amp or into an A/V receiver. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
Without wanting to start another Power Supply 'flame war' I suggest you plug the new supply in, leave it running for a week then try again. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
Skunk;171442 Wrote: It came from ebay so perhaps it's used, like so many others which seem to have noise/heat issues, in which case it'll have been run-in. Sorry for any confusion, I was just joking ;). -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Interesting article on CD loudness
Finally this is getting better and better known. In 1992 I did an album for a British heavy metal band. I got a panic-stricken message from their AR man in America, saying 'We're really worried, the new album, it's not as loud as Aerosmith' or something. That was the start of it. I knew it was those coke-snorting, Armani-wearing record execs who were behind this. They departed from reality long ago though, and besides, they're too busy suing their customers. Plus one day they will hopefully all get shipped out to an island where they can do whatever it is they do in total isolation for the rest of their lives and leave music lovers alone. What's really shameful are the artists who demand it: I had a famous 60s singer who's making a comeback this year. I'd mastered his album and I said, 'What do you think of it?' He said, 'It's great, but it's not as loud as the new Paul Simon. You've got to make it louder'. They should know better! It's now at the point where CDs cannot get any louder, just more distorted. I thought so. My ReplayGain values have stabilized at -11 dB or so. · Compromised CDs Iggy Pop and the Stooges Raw Power (Columbia, 1997) Remixed by Pop in 1997, this remains among the loudest CDs ever made. I am getting into Iggy Pop but I must remember to avoid that album. Red Hot Chili Peppers Californication (Warner, 1999) Criticised for excessive compression and distortion. Subject of an online petition calling for a reissue. So I'm not the only one who notices this. One of the worst tracks is -Parallel Universe- - when he belts out the words California King in the chorus there's very obvious clipping, verified by looking at it in Audacity. Oasis (What's the Story) Morning Glory (Creation, 1995) Exceptionally loud album that forced others to compete in volume. Not surprising knowing the Gallaghers' attitudes... Rush Vapor Trails (Warner, 2002) I can't get into this album at all, it lacks clarity, the songs sound the same, says one user review on Amazon. The overloud mastering may be to blame for this perception. I've heard this before as well. Another album to avoid. What's funny is looking at the RG values for re-releases where I also have the original. Invariably, the newer version will always be louder. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
Hi, i KNOW there is PHYSICALLY no way a flac should or not sound or not better than wma lossless.. however...Most of my flac files do sounds better than ma WMA ones..(same ripper:eac) i even went to rip same CD in both flac (level 5) and wma lossless (eac again) and went for a blind test.. i selected the flac source as the best one 10 time out of 10...(mainly smoother sound on flac) simple question then : how come ?? (and is there some other crazy or lucky guy in the forum ?? The only rationale explanation i see: the fact that flac is native versus wma lossless bring some difference, evne thouhg i think i red in some forums this should not impact.. help, any idea, this makes me mad .. tks eric -- etfun2000 etfun2000's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4814 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
You know, I didn't want to think I was going insane either, but having just converted all of my Apple Lossless files into WAV files, I think I am getting better sound with the WAV files too. I think you might be correct that the fact that WAV is supported natively by SB/TP might be the right idea. And that perhaps jitter is introduced into a signal when the Apple Lossless or WMA file is converted to FLAC/WAV based on the accuracy of the CPU clock processing the conversion There...I said it...call me crazy! :-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:28 PM, PhilNYC wrote: You know, I didn't want to think I was going insane either, but having just converted all of my Apple Lossless files into WAV files, I think I am getting better sound with the WAV files too. I think you might be correct that the fact that WAV is supported natively by SB/TP might be the right idea. And that perhaps jitter is introduced into a signal when the Apple Lossless or WMA file is converted to FLAC/WAV based on the accuracy of the CPU clock processing the conversion There...I said it...call me crazy! :-) One way to test this is to record the digital coax or optical PCM signal from the SB at full volume with a soundcard that has digital- in (such as on any recent Mac) and compare the bits. You should end up with the exact bits in the original WAV file, whether you're playing FLAC, WAV, WMA Lossless, or ALAC. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
Are you sure the WMA lossless files are being transcoded to FLAC or WAV and not MP3? Steve. -- SteveEast SteveEast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Interesting article on CD loudness
That CDs might suck because most people are listening to their music via AAC files (iTunes) or MP3s (everything else) and the dynamic range matters less in those realms. I'm guessing that such mastering makes MP3/AAC rips that sound better on computer speakers. -- mrfantasy --Mike mrfantasy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1127 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
Andy Grundman;171615 Wrote: One way to test this is to record the digital coax or optical PCM signal from the SB at full volume with a soundcard that has digital- in (such as on any recent Mac) and compare the bits. You should end up with the exact bits in the original WAV file, whether you're playing FLAC, WAV, WMA Lossless, or ALAC.Andy, are you 100% certain that not only are the bits correct, but the left and right channels are correctly timed relative to each other? -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
etfun2000;171625 Wrote: agian, i think i know and i believe 100 % of bits are the same, so i was looking ( aside being insane..) for explanations OUT of the bit integrity story OK so I'm not an audiophile by any means, but if you would agree that the bits are the same, then I can't really continue this discussion. ;) -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
SteveEast;171614 Wrote: Are you sure the WMA lossless files are being transcoded to FLAC or WAV and not MP3? Steve. Yep, i only have flac, built in and wav ticked in the filename settings, if it is what u meant .. -- etfun2000 etfun2000's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4814 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
andyg;171627 Wrote: OK so I'm not an audiophile by any means, but if you would agree that the bits are the same, then I can't really continue this discussion. ;) I'm afraid that in the universe of audiophilia, bits are not necessarily bits. You can make up your own reality here. It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ ~~~ SB3 (wired - 6.3.1) | Home-brew PC running XP Pro | DENON DRA-395 | PSB Stratus Bronze (2) | Outlaw Audio LFM-2 (1) | DIY Speaker Cables | Dayton Audio Interconnects jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Audition Advice
As ever thanks for the replies. I have been given a few ideas to try and at least a direction to go in. I'll let you know how I get on after listening to a few different combinations. -- GaryC GaryC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31780 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New SB3 into ECD-1 Dac--channel imbalance?
Plug the SB directly into the preamp, and try a different input on the preamp. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31819 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
Yes I did test the voltage (spot on 5V), yes I did wire the unit correctly, and yes I did have it running for over 4 weeks constantly before I tried the A/B test. (I don't want to start a flame either, but running in a power supply shouldn't really make any difference if its working correctly to start with...) Like I've said above, I couldn't tell the difference even though I really wanted to believe the linear PS was better. My initial impressions that the new PS was better was a pure placebo effect. Is everyone else on this thread using linear power supplies? and are you claiming yours doesn't get hot or hum ? (find a really quiet room and put your ear next to it) To reiterate, I wouldn't dare claim the linear power supply mod is just snake oil, but it my system it didn't make a blind bit of difference; other (more expensive?) systems might resolve the improvements. -- mick_w http://freespace.virgin.net/mick.webb/ mick_w's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6526 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital Coax - EH???
?...Transatlantic Fibre works just fine AFAIK... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital Coax - EH???
I'm no expert on this stuff, but as long as the signal stays in the digital domain jitter is not a factor, unless it is so extreme it causes a misread. It is when the digital stream that contains jitter is converted to analog that by-products are produced. The DAC being, essentially an analog device, is where the problem rears its ugly head. Again I am no expert, my experience with jitter is purely in the digital domain, but if you can completely immobilize a cable I suspect the cable would cease to be a source of jitter. So cables may vary in their suseptiblity to vibration. Lengths of cable would vary as well. Not to mention how they are routed. It would be interesting to try suspending a cable in front of a tweeter and hit it with a bunch of high frequency sound. Measuring jitter isn't hard if you have an eye pattern analyser and a synthesizer. I happen to work for a company that makes both, but they are not designed for low frequencies like SPDIF. Too bad, it might be a fun experiment. -- regalma1 regalma1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6658 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
jonheal;171630 Wrote: It's, you know, like some kind of New Age religion, but with better treble response. :-) ROFL! Post of the month here! -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
Just to update. I did finally receive a response (co-incidence?) I will not post a private message here, but I can say that they did explain their perspective regarding the offer quite clearly. My opinion: Contact Bel Canto directly and get your questions answered . -- sonofcolin sonofcolin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
Thanks for the feedback. With no load, I measured the wall wart's voltage at 5.18vdc. I've build/modified a number of power supplies, both linear and SMPS, and my experience has been that they do improve after being powered up for 48 hours or more. For example, the makers of Black Gate capacitors feel performance improves after 30 hours of use, see: http://www.blackgate.jp/english.htm My linear psu doesn't run hot. If I put my ear right next to my linear psu, I can hear some noise, but I can't hear anything in my very quiet dedicated listening room's listening position. You can also hear noise, if you place your ear right next to the stock wall wart. I'll bet you can also hear noise with your ear right next to your Arcam amp, or any other piece of electronics that has a power supply linear or SMPS. I agree that some people may not hear any improve when they try an off the shelf linear psu. Be well. mick_w;171641 Wrote: Yes I did test the voltage (spot on 5V), yes I did wire the unit correctly, and yes I did have it running for over 4 weeks constantly before I tried the A/B test. (I don't want to start a flame either, but running in a power supply shouldn't really make any difference if its working correctly to start with...) Like I've said above, I couldn't tell the difference even though I really wanted to believe the linear PS was better. My initial impressions that the new PS was better was a pure placebo effect. Is everyone else on this thread using linear power supplies? and are you claiming yours doesn't get hot or hum ? (find a really quiet room and put your ear next to it) To reiterate, I wouldn't dare claim the linear power supply mod is just snake oil, but it my system it didn't make a blind bit of difference; other (more expensive?) systems might resolve the improvements. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Interesting article on CD loudness
I'm shocked and dismayed that Paul Simon's latest is 'loud'. Is it the collaboration with Brian Eno? They both should know better. And be more than capable of (and have the integrity) refusing to cave to demands from the execs who don't know any better. I wish there was a way of getting him to respond. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: A Cut-Rate Audio philes Experience With a Linear Power Supply
azinck3;171602 Wrote: Sorry for any confusion, I was just joking ;). Me too, or being facetious at least. It was mainly an intro for the comment that followed, to wit; A good power supply won't get _hot_ or hum. The Transporter has transformers, yet the knob is the culprit of mechanical noise. All X are not Y. I have a power one and it doesn't get hot in the least, even saying warm would be a stretch. They are designed to work in their spec'd temp range, which is probably assumed to be forced convection cooled, so if it's getting hot in the small enclosure I wouldn't use it anymore in fear of the Sb being damaged. Mine was salvaged goods and does hum slightly but like you said, the room has to be dead quiet and I have to be within arm's reach. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Interesting article on CD loudness
nicketynick;171666 Wrote: I'm shocked and dismayed that Paul Simon's latest is 'loud'. Is it the collaboration with Brian Eno? They both should know better. You may be onto something, the Eno/Byrne 'bush of ghosts' remaster is loud. Switching to the 25yo version the volume goes from loud to practically inaudible. We should send him an email, or put a price on his head or something.. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
Well the first page is the BeginnersGuide and it is meant to be just the headlines with shortcuts to the pages with more info. The BeginnersGuideOverview goes into more detail and is intended to be readable in its own right. I did start to draft a paragraph to go in the Overview page but quickly formed the view that actually we need a page along the lines of BeginnersGuideToConnections, or similar, which could cover - what the analog and digital outputs are for and some of the advantages of each (this comes up quite a lot in the Forums) - connecting into a integrated audio amplifier - connecting directly to a power amplifier (xref to poweramp page) - connecting into an AV receiver (xref to AVReceivers page) - connecting to a DAC Then I'd have a short paragraph in the BeginnersGuideOverview page along the lines of you need to conenct the outputs of your Squeezebox to the inputs of your audio amplifier in just the same way that you now would connect a CD player. There are several advanced options, however, which are discussed here. (link to new page) Anyone feeling bold? Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
Patrick Dixon;171619 Wrote: Whatever the explanation for it, this definitely isn't it! What sounds better about the WAV files? Why wouldn't it be the answer? A jittery WAV file absolutely might sound worse than a FLAC file being converted to a WAV file with less jitter. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
here's an interesting article about jitter (with measurements and all!) http://www.jitter.de/english/sound.html -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: New WIKI - Connecting SB3/Transporter directly to an Amplifier w/o Preamp
ceejay;171697 Wrote: Anyone feeling bold? Sounds like a nice Friday morning project - I'll give it a go if everyone's OK with this. -- Mark Lanctot It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
andyg;171704 Wrote: What? You can convert back and forth between FLAC and WAV (or any other lossless format) until you are blue in the face; the PCM data will always be identical. Sure, the data will be the same, but the timing may not be. The Digital-to-Analog process is, in the end, an analog process that converts one set of voltages to another, and if the input signal to this process has differences in the timing of how that signal arrives, it will produce different results at the output. These differences are measureable and audible. Slim Devices obviously thinks it makes a difference, or they wouldn't have spent so much time and effort to make the Transporter's jitter specification as good as it is. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
PhilNYC;171712 Wrote: I'm not saying that the file is jittery. But when you play an Apple Lossless file on a Slim Devices system, SlimServer converts that Apple Lossless file into FLAC/WAV on-the-fly (as you put it)...and that is where I am saying that perhaps some jitter is being introduced. The timing accuracy of that on-the-fly conversion will be dependent on the local oscillator of the CPU that is doing the conversion... Slimserver converts the files as fast as the server can run, there is no clock involved in this process it takes X bits of format 1 and turns them into Y bits of format 2. If the server is fast it runs fast, if it is slower it takes more cpu time. But critically this is a bits only operation, there is no timing involved. The clock and potentially jitter is only introduced when you reconstruct the signal in real time which is only done in the player. -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
PhilNYC;171712 Wrote: I'm not saying that the file is jittery. But when you play an Apple Lossless file on a Slim Devices system, SlimServer converts that Apple Lossless file into FLAC/WAV on-the-fly (as you put it)...and that is where I am saying that perhaps some jitter is being introduced. The timing accuracy of that on-the-fly conversion will be dependent on the local oscillator of the CPU that is doing the conversion... That's not quite how things work. The data that finally arrives at the SB could just as well have been converted days before. It makes no difference to the SB. (Unless the data doesn't arrive at all, in which case you'll get a drop-out.) To put it another way: The SB is in no way dependent on whatever the server is up to, as long as the server manages to keep the SB's buffer from draining. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
So the only possible difference between FLAC and WAV is that with FLAC, something in the SB3 is doing some decoding (which it is very good at doing), whereas with WAV, it's idle or generally chilling out. This is giving some negative vibe in some way to some other bit in the SB3, and this is manifesting itself as a slightly harsher sound. It's not a digital timing thing in any way at all, it's a digital karma thing. If a PSU can give out EMI that trashes other components, I don't see why we can't have format karma. Om -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
PhilNYC wrote: Triode;171708 Wrote: Jitter only exists when you reconstruct the the bitstream in real time. Files only contain the bits and the defined sampling rate, they don't contain anything which would equate to jitter, i.e. there is no timing information. When you reconstruct the bitstream, a local oscillator is used running at the defined sampling frequency to define when each sample is replayed. Jitter comes from variations in the phase of this oscillator before it gets to the Digital to Analog (DAC) chip. So you can't have a jittery file... You can have a jitterly oscillator but thats another story and is local to the replay device. I'm not saying that the file is jittery. But when you play an Apple Lossless file on a Slim Devices system, SlimServer converts that Apple Lossless file into FLAC/WAV on-the-fly (as you put it)...and that is where I am saying that perhaps some jitter is being introduced. The timing accuracy of that on-the-fly conversion will be dependent on the local oscillator of the CPU that is doing the conversion... Absolutely not. The on-the-fly conversion is still an asynchronous conversion, i.e. not dependent on timing. It's only when the resulting PCM data is converted to analogue that there is potential for any jitter to be introduced R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
wshields;171695 Wrote: Funny, they have never bothered to email me back. Could you give us a summary of their perspectve? People could get the new stuff from Bel Canto to demo for 15 days, decide they like it, send it back to Bel Canto and buy it else where much cheaper. -- sonofcolin sonofcolin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
sonofcolin;171735 Wrote: People could get the new stuff from Bel Canto to demo for 15 days, decide they like it, send it back to Bel Canto and buy it else where much cheaper. If their own dealers are undercutting them, then they have a pricing problem, IMHO. If they're worried about people buying used, how is this different from the situation of direct sellers who don't charge restocking fees? -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
sonofcolin;171735 Wrote: People could get the new stuff from Bel Canto to demo for 15 days, decide they like it, send it back to Bel Canto and buy it else where much cheaper. While that is true, bel canto would still make money off the dealer sale. Did they say why they call it a No Risk Purchase Plan when they charge 5% restocking? That is my beef with them. (not whether it is okay to charge a restocking fee) -- wshields wshields's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
totoro;171737 Wrote: If their own dealers are undercutting them, then they have a pricing problem, IMHO. How is it a pricing problem? I think its the issue of trying to balance a dealer network while trying to sell direct...they are essentially competing with their dealers, and if a dealer doesn't want to offer a 30-day trial, they will have to compete on some other basis (eg. price, service, etc). -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
wshields;169437 Wrote: I got an RMA. Why would a company call something a NO RISK Purchase plan then charge a 5% restocking fee? What does no risk mean to you smart guy? Come on.. you weren't born yesterday are you? This is called Marketing!!! Such ads are all over the place. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
PhilNYC;171743 Wrote: How is it a pricing problem? I think its the issue of trying to balance a dealer network while trying to sell direct...they are essentially competing with their dealers, and if a dealer doesn't want to offer a 30-day trial, they will have to compete on some other basis (eg. price, service, etc). Yeah, I thought of that after posting. It might be impossible to balance having dealers _and_ selling direct. That said, if someone wanted to use the services of a dealer, why would they demo from bel canto first? I'd assume in that case, they'd have a dealer they could get to reasonably easily. If the problem is that their dealers are undercutting them, then they've probably set the price too high (my original point). I would have thought that the _only_ thing their dealers would be capable of competing on would have to be service (not just repairs, but the whole package). Given the fact that they're selling direct for more than they sell wholesale, I would think that they could set their price so that it would be uneconomic for dealers to undercut them. But still, there are other companies that do both that don't charge these restocking fees (benchmark being one, I think). The whole thing is somewhat unconvincing to me (others of course may disagree). This whole thing is a diversion from the main point of this thread, that their website offer was misleading. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
95bcwh;171745 Wrote: Come on.. you weren't born yesterday are you? This is called Marketing!!! Such ads are all over the place. It is misleading Marketing. If you want to accept it as okay and allow it to become the norm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. -- wshields wshields's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
PhilNYC;171743 Wrote: How is it a pricing problem? I think its the issue of trying to balance a dealer network while trying to sell direct...they are essentially competing with their dealers, and if a dealer doesn't want to offer a 30-day trial, they will have to compete on some other basis (eg. price, service, etc). I think it must have been a 30 day trial at some point but it now is only 15 days. -- wshields wshields's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
95bcwh;171745 Wrote: Come on.. you weren't born yesterday are you? This is called Marketing!!! Such ads are all over the place. It's still dishonest marketing. The caveat emptor line is no justification. If I take this line of reasoning to what seems the logical conclusion, it's ok to steal from someone's house because the door was unlocked or to steal credit card info from an online business because their security wasn't good enough. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
totoro;171750 Wrote: Yeah, I thought of that after posting. It might be impossible to balance having dealers _and_ selling direct. That said, if someone wanted to use the services of a dealer, why would they demo from bel canto first? I'd assume in that case, they'd have a dealer they could get to reasonably easily. If the problem is that their dealers are undercutting them, then they've probably set the price too high (my original point). I would have thought that the _only_ thing their dealers would be capable of competing on would have to be service (not just repairs, but the whole package). Given the fact that they're selling direct for more than they sell wholesale, I would think that they could set their price so that it would be uneconomic for dealers to undercut them. But still, there are other companies that do both that don't charge these restocking fees (benchmark being one, I think). The whole thing is somewhat unconvincing to me (others of course may disagree). This whole thing is a diversion from the main point of this thread, that their website offer was misleading. There are a couple of reasons why a consumer might do what Bel Canto describes: -There are some dealers who will not accomodate a home-demo (either via policy or that they just don't have the specific component available) -There are some dealers who unethically discount and sell into other dealers' territories...so the consumer demos the unit to determine that s/he likes it, then solicits bids from as many dealers as s/he can to get the lowest price. The issue with lowering the price is this...there is an industry-accepted standard range for dealer margin. If Bel Canto does anything to lower this margin (ie. lower the retail price without lowering the dealer price), then the dealer is incented to sell a higher-margin product to his/her customer...and Bel Canto essentially loses a dealer. Regarding Benchmark, there's a reason why you don't see many high end dealers representing them...they offer a tiny margin, and most dealers would rather represent a higher-margin product. Most of Benchmark's retailers are pro audio businesses that have lower dealer margins and tend to do higher volume. For the record, I don't run my business based on the margins I get...I basically only represent the stuff that I own myself, regardless of the margins...but what I've described above is the reality of most high end audio dealer businesses... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
PhilNYC;171756 Wrote: There are a couple of reasons why a consumer might do what Bel Canto describes: -There are some dealers who will not accomodate a home-demo (either via policy or that they just don't have the specific component available) -There are some dealers who unethically discount and sell into other dealers' territories...so the consumer demos the unit to determine that s/he likes it, then solicits bids from as many dealers as s/he can to get the lowest price. The issue with lowering the price is this...there is an industry-accepted standard range for dealer margin. If Bel Canto does anything to lower this margin (ie. lower the retail price without lowering the dealer price), then the dealer is incented to sell a higher-margin product to his/her customer...and Bel Canto essentially loses a dealer. Regarding Benchmark, there's a reason why you don't see many high end dealers representing them...they offer a tiny margin, and most dealers would rather represent a higher-margin product. Most of Benchmark's retailers are pro audio businesses that have lower dealer margins and tend to do higher volume. For the record, I don't run my business based on the margins I get...I basically only represent the stuff that I own myself, regardless of the margins...but what I've described above is the reality of most high end audio dealer businesses... I see your point. The issue might be then that they need to shit or get off the pot, ie, decide whether they're a direct business or a dealer oriented one. Not a fun position to be in, I guess, but they initiated the whole thing themselves. Again, I view this discussion as orthogonal to the misleading marketing. Sure, there are valid reasons to have this policy. But this doesn't excuse being misleading or dishonest about it. I personally don't think there is such a thing as dishonest discounting. The obverse is really price-fixing, which is illegal in some cases, and is certainly not how a market is supposed to work. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
PhilNYC;171756 Wrote: There are a couple of reasons why a consumer might do what Bel Canto describes: -There are some dealers who will not accomodate a home-demo (either via policy or that they just don't have the specific component available) -There are some dealers who unethically discount and sell into other dealers' territories...so the consumer demos the unit to determine that s/he likes it, then solicits bids from as many dealers as s/he can to get the lowest price. The issue with lowering the price is this...there is an industry-accepted standard range for dealer margin. If Bel Canto does anything to lower this margin (ie. lower the retail price without lowering the dealer price), then the dealer is incented to sell a higher-margin product to his/her customer...and Bel Canto essentially loses a dealer. Regarding Benchmark, there's a reason why you don't see many high end dealers representing them...they offer a tiny margin, and most dealers would rather represent a higher-margin product. Most of Benchmark's retailers are pro audio businesses that have lower dealer margins and tend to do higher volume. For the record, I don't run my business based on the margins I get...I basically only represent the stuff that I own myself, regardless of the margins...but what I've described above is the reality of most high end audio dealer businesses... This is off my original point(that the advertisement is unacceptably misleading) but what about the concept of risk-reward? If they want the reward of vastly higher price directly to them(versus their sale price to the dealer) why won't they take the risk of a possible return? Obviously, they appease their dealers by selling at full retail. I personally would not have demoed from them had I had another choice. (knowing no dealer would get full retail for their product) -- wshields wshields's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
This will be my last post on the subject, because I think the original point by wshield has been made and we're getting somewhat off-topic. But I will mention that this whole selling-direct thing is still very new to Bel Canto...they just started with the direct thing a couple of months ago, and I'm sure they are still just in the process of getting the kinks out. And it's entirely possible that they are headed in a direction that will eventually cut out high-end dealers such as my business, and instead pursue the likes of places like Best Buy, Tweeter, and other higher-volume retail businesses that can handle lower-margin products. In their defense, they've been very up-front with dealers such as myself when they decided to go to the direct-sale model, and as I've said before, I've not had any significant issues in my manufacturer-dealer relationship with them. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
PhilNYC;171765 Wrote: This will be my last post on the subject, because I think the original point by wshield has been made and we're getting somewhat off-topic. But I will mention that this whole selling-direct thing is still very new to Bel Canto...they just started with the direct thing a couple of months ago, and I'm sure they are still just in the process of getting the kinks out. And it's entirely possible that they are headed in a direction that will eventually cut out high-end dealers such as my business, and instead pursue the likes of places like Best Buy, Tweeter, and other higher-volume retail businesses that can handle lower-margin products. In their defense, they've been very up-front with dealers such as myself when they decided to go to the direct-sale model, and as I've said before, I've not had any significant issues in my manufacturer-dealer relationship with them. Sorry, I was a major participant in the OT-ness :). Just in case I come across as being rabidly anti-dealer, I _have_ bought equipment from all three of my major local dealers over the last 10 years (equipment that only each had, not because I was playing them off against each other). -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Interesting article on CD loudness
That's very interesting. I have Rush's Vapor Trails and one of my favorite songs Earthshine sounds awful if I really crank up the volume. My system is very revealing and if it's a poor recording, it will show. Now I know why! -- USAudio SB3 - PS Audio Trio C-100 - Revel Concerta F12's USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: ok, may be i am just crazy, but how can i be so lucky
adamslim;171719 Wrote: So the only possible difference between FLAC and WAV is that with FLAC, something in the SB3 is doing some decoding (which it is very good at doing), whereas with WAV, it's idle or generally chilling out. This is giving some negative vibe in some way to some other bit in the SB3, and this is manifesting itself as a slightly harsher sound. It's not true that when the server is streaming WAV the SB processor is idle. It's running the ethernet card, receiving and moving the data around, converting from WAV to S/PDIF, running various error checking and housekeeping algorithms, etc. It may be more busy, or rather busy in a different way when it also has to decode FLAC, but since we have no proposed mechanism for what would cause this (other than the very vague idea that decoding FLAC is hard and therefore bad), for all we know WAV streaming might introduce more jitter and sound worse. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31833 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Q:Best BUDGET power or integrated AMP (under$1000)
Hi In a quandary oover what would be a good power upgrade for my current, very basic setup. An old NAD 740 receiver with pre-outs and some Magnapan MMG's. My next step I think is to upgrade the power suplly...I'm thinking a power amp with at least 100w/ch and preferably 200w. I'm consiidering used, of course given my budget. Came across a Rotel rb991 with a 1 year warranty remaining but the asking price of $900 is way too high IMHO. I may make a much lower offer since it is a great amp. Other makes I'm considering include Musical Fidelity (though would have to consider used in that price range), the hybrid Jolidas and even little know chinese amps like the dussan. Too many choices...I'm bewildered at the moment... -- mmg_fan mmg_fan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31843 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Q:Best BUDGET power or integrated AMP (under$1000)
You might check this one, which I've seen new for $180: http://www.behringer.com/A500/index.cfm?lang=ENG reviewed here: http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticlearticleId=20blogId=1 -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31843 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Q:Best BUDGET power or integrated AMP (under$1000)
Hi, since you have MMGs, they will somewhat limit you in your choices. You need an amp that is stable at 4 ohm and is capable of delivering high current and, at least, 50 W/ch. Why not stay with NAD, it's proven robust. Nad 352 with 80w/ch or Nad 372 with 120W/ch (both at 8 Ohms ,and that almost doubles at 4 Ohms) are within your price range, new or used, or their 'amp only' versions - I don't remember model numbers right now. I never heard it, but there's Jolida amp with 100w/ch, with tube preamp and SS amp, which might be an interesting choice too. In my experience, Rotel SS amps are too bright with Magnepans. Marantz PM-7200 is in the price range, but I don't think it's a good match to MMGs. Cambridge Azur 640A might be worth trying also. -- slimkid slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31843 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital Coax - EH???
mikeruss;171352 Wrote: Error correction over TCP/IP happens all the time - e.g. hence why gamers/games use UDP because the there is no error correction and is therefor faster - but you can suffer from packet loss - udp has no error correction- which is why you often get parts of the image on a game is missing or there are delays etc. You've got it kinda correct, but are slightly off. UDP is not faster than TCP. What games, and video streams gain with UDP is timeliness. The older the game state packet is, the less important it is to what's happening now, so who cares if it's lost. This is why real-time applications like games and video use UDP. Audio streams tend to use TCP and buffering because people are much less tolerant of audio dropouts than video signal drops. It's sad to seen when software developers don't understand the differences, and think UDP is faster, and end up re-implementing TCP error correction over UDP. FTP is a good example of this because it uses UDP for data, even tho it has to verify that every block is copied. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
Since Stella was mentioned earlier in this thread... I noticed the Stella DA100 ( http://hifi500.com/product/da100.htm ) is using the AKM 4395 dac chip. What I'm wondering, the Transporter used the AKM 4396 dac, does that mean that the da100 might have a similar sound? The thing looks pretty nice, price is around $700... +---+ |Filename: stella.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2274| +---+ -- jmourik jmourik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7123 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital Coax - EH???
SuperQ wrote: UDP is not faster than TCP. What games, and video streams gain with UDP is timeliness. The older the game state packet is, the less important it is to what's happening now, so who cares if it's lost. This is why real-time applications like games and video use UDP. It's sad to seen when software developers don't understand the differences, and think UDP is faster, and end up re-implementing TCP error correction over UDP. FTP is a good example of this because it uses UDP for data, even tho it has to verify that every block is copied. Very true, if we're starting to go off topic. Worse, IMHO, are developers who start with HTTP, which is stateless, and then reimplement TCP/IP all over on top of it. Duh, HTTP is built on TCP/IP. To get back on topic, there is no such thing as a digital cable. All cables, coax, unshielded, flat or round, etc. depend on voltages, the voltages are always analog. The interpretation of the signal can be set on the analog voltage crossing a specific voltage. Cables can be rated for specific transmission speeds, but there ain't such thing as a digital cable. Except, of course, among marketing folks. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
Check out the Digital Link III from PS Audio: http://www.psaudio.com/products/digital_link_iii.asp Apparently they're selling them faster than they can make them. -- USAudio SB3 - PS Audio Trio C-100 - Revel Concerta F12's USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
USAudio;171792 Wrote: Check out the Digital Link III from PS Audio: http://www.psaudio.com/products/digital_link_iii.asp Apparently they're selling them faster than they can make them. 325xi has has some similar sounding gear probably(Sim Audio family sound anyways). See sig that reflects my system. I recently posted numerous questions all over the net on various forums in regards to the PS Audio unit. I really couldn't get much feedback on it. I sent personal posts to the few that I could find. I only got positive feedback, but unfortunately no comparative reviews with the biggies (Iron_Dreamer did a great review of all but the PS). Well I ordered one because you can get it at 100% no risk for 30 days -- what to lose?I really did NOT like it initially. I am a believer in break-in -- but this thing is rediculous in that regard. It was very strident, and unnatural. With some time(4 days) on it AND a very important cable swap (Cardas Golden Cross -- Coincident CST) I can say that I am enjoying it very much. I have no intention of returning it. Initially I thought the Warm characterization of the DAC was more marketting fluff than reality. This was partly because the unit was rather the opposite from the onset. But with the right cables and burn-in -- I can say it is definately on the warm-side --- which personnaly I like very much. It is very detailed, but most strikingly, at least for me, is the apparantly very quiet noise floor. It is dead silent -- perhaps attributed to the probably most over-engineered power supply of the lot(Lavry, Aqvox, DAC1, Stello) -- at least by the looks of the huge transformer -- far away from the PCB ;) Does it sound better than the others?I really do not know. It does sound good enough where I am happy at this point, and unwilling to go through the effort to get more units to try. I came that close to ordering the Aqvox MkII from Germany(also available on trial). But with the Aqvox, Id be out about $120 in shipping charges for such a test if it were to lose(I am in CA). With the PS sounding so good to me now, I can rest and enjoy the music -- which this is all about anyways. My advise is probably to get the PS, if you can float the cash -- get something else too that you think would be very good for you as well. If the PS loses -- return it for a full refund(less shipping). Don't forget to post your findings so the next folks can learn from our opinions. Good listening! Jim -- jt25741 SB3-AR Masters Coax - PS Audio DLIII - Coincident CST IC XLR - Sim Audio P5 - Cardas Golden Reference XLR - Sim Audio W5 - PS Audio Xtreme Plus(Low) AQCV4(mid/hi)- Magnepan 3.6R jt25741's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Q:Best BUDGET power or integrated AMP (under$1000)
opaqueice;171773 Wrote: You might check this one, which I've seen new for $180: Your choice of the number 180 makes me wonder if you wrote the article :-) Interesting site, though slightly overzealous imho. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31843 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bel Canto No Risk Purchase Plan
wshields;171752 Wrote: It is misleading Marketing. If you want to accept it as okay and allow it to become the norm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. No..I detest such ads.. but it's all over the place, what can you do about it? Just turn on your TV: Cable phone, call anywhere for $29.99 only yeah right, then you have to pay another $15 tax. Came in for a brake service for $99! Yeah right, you end up paying $800! Buy a sleep number bed, starting $599 Yeah right, the moment you enter the store, the price goes up to $2000! -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31562 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
