RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-08-01 Thread Jesse Noller

If you feel that there is a problem, then follow the link I sent out, submit the FULL 
CODE for a reproducible problem into the bug report.



Jesse Noller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Macromedia Server Development
Unix/Linux "special guy" 

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> This is great.. but its still not close to CF 5.0 "740ms" which was posted
> on here yesterday.
> 
> Jesse/Sean
> Are you guys convinced that there is a performance issue with Wddx
> on CFMX?
> If so as Jesse suggested.. can you open a Problem ticket with MM
> on
> this issue
> or give us some guidence on what do?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:52 AM
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> 
> > On another machine we tried the same tests and found the code took
> > 1680ms to run 1000 iterations. Interestingly enough we rewrote Sean's
> > code in Java and retried the tests. From Java we could do 1000
> > iterations in 1265ms. The Java code is below.
> >
> > import java.util.*;
> > import java.io.*;
> > import org.xml.sax.*;
> > import com.allaire.wddx.*;
> >
> > public class STest
> > {
> >   String xmlContent = null;
> >   WddxDeserializer deserializer = null;
> >
> >   public STest(String filePath) throws Exception
> >   {
> > deserializer = new
> > WddxDeserializer("org.apache.xerces.parsers.SAXParser");
> > readInXML(filePath);
> >   }
> >
> >   public static void main(String args[])
> >   {
> > try
> > {
> >   if (args.length < 2)
> >   {
> > System.out.println("Usage: alchemy.STest filepath
> > deserializations [iterations]");
> > return;
> >   }
> >   int iterations = 1;
> >   if (args.length == 3)
> > iterations = Integer.parseInt(args[2]);
> >   STest test = new STest(args[0]);
> >   for (int i=0; i >   {
> > test.run(Integer.parseInt(args[1]));
> >   }
> > }
> > catch (Exception ex)
> > {
> >   ex.printStackTrace();
> > }
> >   }
> >
> >   private void readInXML(String filePath) throws Exception
> >   {
> > FileReader reader = null;
> > try
> > {
> >   reader = new FileReader(filePath);
> >   xmlContent = "";
> >   char[] buf = new char[512];
> >   int read = -1;
> >   while ((read = reader.read(buf)) != -1)
> >   {
> > xmlContent += new String(buf, 0, read);
> >   }
> >   xmlContent = xmlContent.trim();
> > }
> > finally
> > {
> >   if (reader != null)
> > reader.close();
> > }
> >   }
> >
> > public void run(int nTimes) throws Exception
> > {
> > Map map = null;
> > InputSource source = null;
> >
> > long start = System.currentTimeMillis();
> > for (int i=0; inTimes; i++)
> > {
> >   source = new InputSource(new StringReader(xmlContent));
> >   map = (Map)deserializer.deserialize(source);
> > }
> > long end = System.currentTimeMillis();
> > System.out.println("It took: " + (end - start) + " ms to deserialize
> > " + nTimes + " times.");
> > }
> >
> > }
> >
> > Matt Liotta
> > President & CEO
> > Montara Software, Inc.
> > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > V: 415-577-8070
> > F: 415-341-8906
> > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:22 AM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> > >
> > > P3 866 384 RAM CFMX (2543ms)
> > >
> > > Using the below code on the same machine (5908ms)
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > tempDoc = XmlParse(temp);
> > > ctemp = StructNew();
> > >
> > > for(itr = 1; itr lte
> > > ArrayLen(tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.XmlChildren); itr = itr + 1)
> > > 

Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-08-01 Thread Joe Eugene

This is great.. but its still not close to CF 5.0 "740ms" which was posted
on here yesterday.

Jesse/Sean
Are you guys convinced that there is a performance issue with Wddx
on CFMX?
If so as Jesse suggested.. can you open a Problem ticket with MM on
this issue
or give us some guidence on what do?

Joe


- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:52 AM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)


> On another machine we tried the same tests and found the code took
> 1680ms to run 1000 iterations. Interestingly enough we rewrote Sean's
> code in Java and retried the tests. From Java we could do 1000
> iterations in 1265ms. The Java code is below.
>
> import java.util.*;
> import java.io.*;
> import org.xml.sax.*;
> import com.allaire.wddx.*;
>
> public class STest
> {
>   String xmlContent = null;
>   WddxDeserializer deserializer = null;
>
>   public STest(String filePath) throws Exception
>   {
> deserializer = new
> WddxDeserializer("org.apache.xerces.parsers.SAXParser");
> readInXML(filePath);
>   }
>
>   public static void main(String args[])
>   {
> try
> {
>   if (args.length < 2)
>   {
> System.out.println("Usage: alchemy.STest filepath
> deserializations [iterations]");
> return;
>   }
>   int iterations = 1;
>   if (args.length == 3)
> iterations = Integer.parseInt(args[2]);
>   STest test = new STest(args[0]);
>   for (int i=0; i   {
> test.run(Integer.parseInt(args[1]));
>   }
> }
> catch (Exception ex)
> {
>   ex.printStackTrace();
> }
>   }
>
>   private void readInXML(String filePath) throws Exception
>   {
> FileReader reader = null;
> try
> {
>   reader = new FileReader(filePath);
>   xmlContent = "";
>   char[] buf = new char[512];
>   int read = -1;
>   while ((read = reader.read(buf)) != -1)
>   {
> xmlContent += new String(buf, 0, read);
>   }
>   xmlContent = xmlContent.trim();
> }
> finally
> {
>   if (reader != null)
> reader.close();
> }
>   }
>
> public void run(int nTimes) throws Exception
> {
> Map map = null;
> InputSource source = null;
>
> long start = System.currentTimeMillis();
> for (int i=0; inTimes; i++)
> {
>   source = new InputSource(new StringReader(xmlContent));
>   map = (Map)deserializer.deserialize(source);
> }
> long end = System.currentTimeMillis();
> System.out.println("It took: " + (end - start) + " ms to deserialize
> " + nTimes + " times.");
> }
>
> }
>
> Matt Liotta
> President & CEO
> Montara Software, Inc.
> http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> V: 415-577-8070
> F: 415-341-8906
> P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:22 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> >
> > P3 866 384 RAM CFMX (2543ms)
> >
> > Using the below code on the same machine (5908ms)
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > tempDoc = XmlParse(temp);
> > ctemp = StructNew();
> >
> > for(itr = 1; itr lte
> > ArrayLen(tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.XmlChildren); itr = itr + 1)
> > StructInsert(ctemp,
> > tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlAttributes.name,
> > tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlChildren[1].XmlText);
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > #GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> > 
> > 
> >
> > Matt Liotta
> > President & CEO
> > Montara Software, Inc.
> > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > V: 415-577-8070
> > F: 415-341-8906
> > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:11 AM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > > Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.
> > >
> > > I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various
> > systems.
> > >   I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here will
> b

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Matt Liotta

On another machine we tried the same tests and found the code took
1680ms to run 1000 iterations. Interestingly enough we rewrote Sean's
code in Java and retried the tests. From Java we could do 1000
iterations in 1265ms. The Java code is below.

import java.util.*;
import java.io.*;
import org.xml.sax.*;
import com.allaire.wddx.*;

public class STest
{
  String xmlContent = null;
  WddxDeserializer deserializer = null;
  
  public STest(String filePath) throws Exception
  {
deserializer = new
WddxDeserializer("org.apache.xerces.parsers.SAXParser");
readInXML(filePath);
  }

  public static void main(String args[])
  {
try
{
  if (args.length < 2)
  {
System.out.println("Usage: alchemy.STest filepath
deserializations [iterations]");
return; 
  }
  int iterations = 1;
  if (args.length == 3)
iterations = Integer.parseInt(args[2]);
  STest test = new STest(args[0]);
  for (int i=0; ihttp://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:22 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> P3 866 384 RAM CFMX (2543ms)
> 
> Using the below code on the same machine (5908ms)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>   
>   tempDoc = XmlParse(temp);
>   ctemp = StructNew();
> 
>   for(itr = 1; itr lte
> ArrayLen(tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.XmlChildren); itr = itr + 1)
>   StructInsert(ctemp,
> tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlAttributes.name,
> tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlChildren[1].XmlText);
>   
> 
> 
> #GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Liotta
> President & CEO
> Montara Software, Inc.
> http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> V: 415-577-8070
> F: 415-341-8906
> P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:11 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > >   Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.
> >
> > I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various
> systems.
> >   I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here will
be
> able
> > to confirm / deny the speed differences.
> >
> > Two files:
> > - xfile.cfm reads the WDDX packet and then times cfwddx repeatedly
> > deserializing it
> > - joe.wddx is Joe's WDDX (with a correction: there's a missing
> 
> > on line 34!)
> >
> > I tested this on a PowerMac G4 800MHz with
> > http://127.0.0.1/xfile.cfm?loop=
> > 1000 and it consistently executed in 4000ms.
> >
> > xfile.cfm:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > #GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > joe.wddx:
> >  > name='ALTTAG'>MS Commercial > name='BODY'><P>All MS&reg; models are made in the
> USA to
> > the highest quality standards.</P><P>The
> > MS&reg; Series grew out of our decades of experience with
> > Highline<SUP>TM</SUP>, Trimline, and units combined with
> the
> > time-proven technologies of The Asian&reg; series. All
MS&reg;
> > models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards.
> > </P> > code='0A'/><H2>Key Distinguishing Feature</H2> > code='0A'/><P>North America</P><TABLE
> > cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0> > code='0A'/><TBODY><TR> code='0A'/><TD
> > class=headerWhite bgColor=#ff6633>Related Links and
> > Brochures:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> > code='0A'/><P><A target=_new
> > href="http://@url@/pdfs/P1903.pdf">The MS Series - Commercial
> > (PDF)</A></P> > name='CONTENTITEMID'>11 > name='CONTENTTYPEID'>PMP > name='DESCRIPTION'>MS Commercial have mechanical
non-computing
> > specifically designed for industrial, and fleet
> > applications. name='ERRORS'> > name='FILES'>com.jpg,P103.pdf > name='KEYWORDS'>, industrial, fleet, north
> > america > name='NAVTEXT'>MS-Commercial > name='PUBLISHDATE'>2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:0 > name='PUBLISHDAY'>07 > name='PUBLISHMONTH'>3 > name='PUBLISHYEAR'>2002 > name='TITLE'>The
> > MS Series - Commercial > name='UPLOADIMAGE'>2A2.8_MS_com.jpg > name='UPLOADPDF'>P1903.pdf > name='USERNAME'>abc > name='VERSIONNUMBER'>42 > name='VERSIONSTATUSID'>PUB >  >
> >
> > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> >
> > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > -- Margaret Atwood
> >
> >
> 
__
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Matt Liotta

While CFMX clearly doesn't perform anywhere close to as well with WDDX
as CF 5 did, you now have a new option for handling WDDX with CFMX. You
can make use of JAXB and the Java world and easily cast the resulting
objects into CF.

If you want high performance WDDX/XML parsing in Java, you have to make
use of JAXB.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:55 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> I guess this proves both our tests..(Load Test/Ticket Count) for
wddx
> on
> CFMX and CF5.0
> Under normal load (5-10 hits per minute) this might not be an issue...
but
> for high
> traffic sites/ Load testing the app.. this really cranks the machine.
> 
> Joe
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Craig Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:59 PM
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> 
> > >>  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here
> > >>will be able
> > >>to confirm / deny the speed differences.
> >
> > CFMX
> >
> > p3 733
> > Debugging on
> > No Trusted Cache
> > 3400 ms (varies a little, like maybe 100ms)
> >
> > CF 5 same machine
> > 740 ms
> >
> > Also, to run on my cf5 install I hade to modify this:
> >
> > >>
> > >>#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > to this:
> >
> >
> > 
> > #evaluate(GetTickCount() - request.StartTime)# ms
> > 
> > 
> >
> > ---why is that?
> >
> > -Craig
> >
> >
> >
> 
__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Joe Eugene

I guess this proves both our tests..(Load Test/Ticket Count) for wddx on
CFMX and CF5.0
Under normal load (5-10 hits per minute) this might not be an issue... but
for high
traffic sites/ Load testing the app.. this really cranks the machine.

Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Craig Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)


> >>  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here
> >>will be able
> >>to confirm / deny the speed differences.
>
> CFMX
>
> p3 733
> Debugging on
> No Trusted Cache
> 3400 ms (varies a little, like maybe 100ms)
>
> CF 5 same machine
> 740 ms
>
> Also, to run on my cf5 install I hade to modify this:
>
> >>
> >>#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> >>
> >>
>
> to this:
>
>
> 
> #evaluate(GetTickCount() - request.StartTime)# ms
> 
> 
>
> ---why is that?
>
> -Craig
>
>
> 
__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Dick Applebaum

On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 09:11 AM, Sean A Corfield wrote:

> I tested this on a PowerMac G4 800MHz with 
> http://127.0.0.1/xfile.cfm?loop=
> 1000 and it consistently executed in 4000ms.
>

First, the last line of the WDDX file needs > added as first char.

Second, same config as Sean

Running everything on same box

OS X
Aqua GUI
CFMX
Airport wireless networking
IE Browser

33 Processes in all--  about the minimum for all on one box

results in the 4000-4200 range

Same as above except access from separate machine via Airport

OS X
Aqua GUI
CFMX
Airport wireless networking

32 Processes in all--  about the minimum for using Full 
(workstation) OS X as a Server OS

(Apple makes a separate OS X, OS X Server that is 
configured/tuned for Web/Lan serving)

results consistently in the 3654-3677 range (one result was 4043)


Dick

__
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Matt Liotta

P3 866 384 RAM CFMX (2543ms)

Using the below code on the same machine (5908ms)




 


tempDoc = XmlParse(temp);
ctemp = StructNew();

for(itr = 1; itr lte
ArrayLen(tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.XmlChildren); itr = itr + 1)
StructInsert(ctemp,
tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlAttributes.name,
tempDoc.wddxpacket.data.struct.var[itr].XmlChildren[1].XmlText);



#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms



Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:11 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)
> 
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.
> 
> I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various
systems.
>   I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here will be
able
> to confirm / deny the speed differences.
> 
> Two files:
> - xfile.cfm reads the WDDX packet and then times cfwddx repeatedly
> deserializing it
> - joe.wddx is Joe's WDDX (with a correction: there's a missing

> on line 34!)
> 
> I tested this on a PowerMac G4 800MHz with
> http://127.0.0.1/xfile.cfm?loop=
> 1000 and it consistently executed in 4000ms.
> 
> xfile.cfm:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> #GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> joe.wddx:
>  name='ALTTAG'>MS Commercial name='BODY'><P>All MS&reg; models are made in the
USA to
> the highest quality standards.</P><P>The
> MS&reg; Series grew out of our decades of experience with
> Highline<SUP>TM</SUP>, Trimline, and units combined with
the
> time-proven technologies of The Asian&reg; series. All MS&reg;
> models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards.
> </P> code='0A'/><H2>Key Distinguishing Feature</H2> code='0A'/><P>North America</P><TABLE
> cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0> code='0A'/><TBODY><TR><TD
> class=headerWhite bgColor=#ff6633>Related Links and
> Brochures:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> code='0A'/><P><A target=_new
> href="http://@url@/pdfs/P1903.pdf">The MS Series - Commercial
> (PDF)</A></P> name='CONTENTITEMID'>11 name='CONTENTTYPEID'>PMP name='DESCRIPTION'>MS Commercial have mechanical non-computing
> specifically designed for industrial, and fleet
> applications. name='FILES'>com.jpg,P103.pdf name='KEYWORDS'>, industrial, fleet, north
> america name='NAVTEXT'>MS-Commercial name='PUBLISHDATE'>2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:0 name='PUBLISHDAY'>07 name='PUBLISHMONTH'>3 name='PUBLISHYEAR'>2002 name='TITLE'>The
> MS Series - Commercial name='UPLOADIMAGE'>2A2.8_MS_com.jpg name='UPLOADPDF'>P1903.pdf name='USERNAME'>abc name='VERSIONNUMBER'>42 name='VERSIONSTATUSID'>PUB  >
> 
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> 
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
> 
> 
__
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Re: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread ksuh

Wow.  It looks like we can put evaluatives between hashes again.  
Shades of CF3.

To answer your question, in CF4-5, you cannot put evaluatives between 
hashes.

- Original Message -
From: Craig Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:59 am
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

> >>  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here 
> >>will be able 
> >>to confirm / deny the speed differences.
> 
> CFMX
> 
> p3 733
> Debugging on
> No Trusted Cache
> 3400 ms (varies a little, like maybe 100ms)
> 
> CF 5 same machine 
> 740 ms
> 
> Also, to run on my cf5 install I hade to modify this:
> 
> >>
> >>#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
> >>
> >>
> 
> to this:
> 
> 
> 
> #evaluate(GetTickCount() - request.StartTime)# ms
> 
> 
> 
> ---why is that?
> 
> -Craig
> 
> 
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Craig Thomas

>>  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here 
>>will be able 
>>to confirm / deny the speed differences.

CFMX

p3 733
Debugging on
No Trusted Cache
3400 ms (varies a little, like maybe 100ms)

CF 5 same machine 
740 ms

Also, to run on my cf5 install I hade to modify this:

>>
>>#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms
>>
>>

to this:



#evaluate(GetTickCount() - request.StartTime)# ms



---why is that?

-Craig


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Chad Gray

/test2.cfm?loop=1000 
CF MX
P3 500
Debugging on
No Trusted Cache
5709 ms - 6629 ms

I don't have CF 5.0 either.


-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:11 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.

I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various
systems.
  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here will be
able 
to confirm / deny the speed differences.

Two files:
- xfile.cfm reads the WDDX packet and then times cfwddx repeatedly 
deserializing it
- joe.wddx is Joe's WDDX (with a correction: there's a missing 

on line 34!)

I tested this on a PowerMac G4 800MHz with
http://127.0.0.1/xfile.cfm?loop=
1000 and it consistently executed in 4000ms.

xfile.cfm:







 


#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms




joe.wddx:
MS Commercial<P>All MS&reg; models are made in the USA
to
the highest quality standards.</P><P>The
MS&reg; Series grew out of our decades of experience with
Highline<SUP>TM</SUP>, Trimline, and units combined with the
time-proven technologies of The Asian&reg; series. All MS&reg;
models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards. 
</P><H2>Key Distinguishing Feature</H2><P>North America</P><TABLE
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD
class=headerWhite bgColor=#ff6633>Related Links and
Brochures:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P><A target=_new
href="http://@url@/pdfs/P1903.pdf">The MS Series - Commercial
(PDF)</A></P>11PMPMS Commercial have mechanical non-computing
specifically designed for industrial, and fleet
applications.com.jpg,P103.pdf, industrial, fleet, north
americaMS-Commercial2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:00732002The
MS Series - Commercial2A2.8_MS_com.jpgP1903.pdfabc42PUB

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 09:11 , Sean A Corfield wrote:
> I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various systems.
> ...
> 

I put both files in a 'bacfug' folder inside my web root - old habits die 
hard :)

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.

I've put together a very simple test to time wddx2cfml on various systems.
  I don't have CF5 to run it on but hopefully some folks here will be able 
to confirm / deny the speed differences.

Two files:
- xfile.cfm reads the WDDX packet and then times cfwddx repeatedly 
deserializing it
- joe.wddx is Joe's WDDX (with a correction: there's a missing  
on line 34!)

I tested this on a PowerMac G4 800MHz with http://127.0.0.1/xfile.cfm?loop=
1000 and it consistently executed in 4000ms.

xfile.cfm:







 


#GetTickCount() - request.StartTime# ms




joe.wddx:
MS Commercial

All MS® models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards.

The MS® Series grew out of our decades of experience with HighlineTM, Trimline, and units combined with the time-proven technologies of The Asian® series. All MS® models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards.

Key Distinguishing Feature

North America

Related Links and Brochures:

The MS Series - Commercial (PDF)

11PMPMS Commercial have mechanical non-computing specifically designed for industrial, and fleet applications.com.jpg,P103.pdf, industrial, fleet, north americaMS-Commercial2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:00732002The MS Series - Commercial2A2.8_MS_com.jpgP1903.pdfabc42PUB Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists

Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-31 Thread Jesse Houwing

Joe Eugene wrote:
> Noticed the "evaluate" as well but thats very minor.. right? 10ms maybe?

Yeah, but it may be yet another 10 ms. If you have a lot of traffic and 
there need to be a lot of evaluates it should introduce extra CPU load.

Jesse


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:27 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.

Thank you for (finally) posting some example code and data that we can try 
out. I'll try to have a look at this tomorrow (although, as I say, I don't 
have CF5 to test against). I expect other folks here will now try out your 
WDDX packet on both systems and see what happens.

I'd still recommend you actually put some getTickCount() calls around the 
code and report back the times on both CF5 and CFMX - as several people 
have (repeatedly) said here, the response time is really more important 
than the CPU usage.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Noticed the "evaluate" as well but thats very minor.. right? 10ms maybe?

Joe
-Original Message-
From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:45 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)


>   // Pass the structure back to the caller
>   x = Evaluate("caller.#Attributes.ReturnStruct# = strTemp");

You could start by removing this evaluate (it shouldn't matter that 
much, but should make it faster if written as:



Jesse



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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-30 Thread Jesse Houwing

>   // Pass the structure back to the caller
>   x = Evaluate("caller.#Attributes.ReturnStruct# = strTemp");

You could start by removing this evaluate (it shouldn't matter that 
much, but should make it faster if written as:



Jesse


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-30 Thread brook

This may have been asked already, but any difference in the query time on 
CFMX?

At 01:27 AM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Jesse/Sean,
> Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.
> Scenario (Problems seen in pages where #NO 1,3,4  exists(CPU average
>85-95% ).
>
> 1. Data/Content is saved in the database (SQL2k) as a WDDX
> See wddxpacket below. Items in the packet are
>--
>(ALTTAG,BODY,CONTENTITEMID,CONTENTTYPEID,DESCRIPTION,ERRORS,
>FILES,KEYWORDS,NAVTEXT,PUBLISHDATE,PUBLISHDAY,PUBLISHMONTH,
>PUBLISHYEAR,TITLE,UPLOADIMAGE,UPLOADPDF,USERNAME,VERSIONNUMBER,VERSIONSTATUS
>ID
>--
> 2. There is a backend server that creates and populates the 
> CONTENT for
>wddxPacket..
> "We are NOT concerned with the backend".
>
> 3. Custom Tag used to get wddxPacket Data when passed the 
> ContentItemID
> 
>-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SELECT WDDXPacket   FROMContentVersion
> WHERE   ContentItemID = #Attributes.ContentItemID#
> AND VersionStatusID = 'PUB'
> 
> 
> 
>  output="strTemp">
> 
> // Pass the structure back to the caller
> x = Evaluate("caller.#Attributes.ReturnStruct# = strTemp");
> // Pass the successful boolean return code
> caller.bolReturnCode = 1;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>---
>-
>
> 4. Custom Tag Call in the dynamic page when passed
>(?ContentItemID=1,..7...,20)
> -
>  ContentItemID="#url.ContentItemID#"
> ReturnStruct="strProduct">
> -
>
> 5.Output Content
> -
> #strProduct.Title#,#strProduct.BODY# 
> -
> 6.When we ran other sections of the application WITHOUT any WDDX..
> All of them ran ok and scaled quite well.
>
> 7. Load Test Results for CF5.0 and CFMX for ABOVE section of code
> gave the below results.
> CF5.0   CFMX
> Win2k   Win2k
> 600 Mhx P3  2(Dual) 750Mhx P3 (NOTE.. Bigger box)
> Avg 12% CPU Avg 85%-95% CPU
>
> Any ideas why we are seeing CPU usage shoot up in CFMX?
>Joe
>
>wddxPacket is stored in SQL2K as ntext(16) TYPE and can get upto 2-4
>pages long.
>WDDX in SQL2k saved in one FIELD(WDDXPacket) of the Table
>(ContentVersion)***
>name='ALTTAG'>MS Commercialname='BODY'><P>All MS&reg; models are made in the USA to
>the highest quality standards.</P><P>The
>MS&reg; Series grew out of our decades of experience with
>Highline<SUP>TM</SUP>, Trimline, and units combined with the
>time-proven technologies of The Asian&reg; series. All MS&reg;
>models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards. </P>code='0A'/><H2>Key Distinguishing Feature</H2>code='0A'/><P>North America</P><TABLE
>cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0>code='0A'/><TBODY><TR><TD
>class=headerWhite bgColor=#ff6633>Related Links and
>Brochures:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>code='0A'/><P><A target=_new
>href="http://@url@/pdfs/P1903.pdf">The MS Series - Commercial
>(PDF)</A></P>name='CONTENTITEMID'>11name='CONTENTTYPEID'>PMPname='DESCRIPTION'>MS Commercial have mechanical non-computing
>specifically designed for industrial, and fleet
>applications.name='FILES'>com.jpg,P103.pdfname='KEYWORDS'>, industrial, fleet, north
>americaname='NAVTEXT'>MS-Commercialname='PUBLISHDATE'>2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:0name='PUBLISHDAY'>07name='PUBLISHMONTH'>3name='PUBLISHYEAR'>2002The
>MS Series - Commercialname='UPLOADIMAGE'>2A2.8_MS_com.jpgname='UPLOADPDF'>P1903.pdfname='USERNAME'>abc>name='VERSIONNUMBER'>42name='VERSIONSTATUSID'>PUBt>
>
>---

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources? (CODE)

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Jesse/Sean,
Below are the details of the code that is running slow on CFMX.
Scenario (Problems seen in pages where #NO 1,3,4  exists(CPU average
85-95% ).

1. Data/Content is saved in the database (SQL2k) as a WDDX
See wddxpacket below. Items in the packet are
--
(ALTTAG,BODY,CONTENTITEMID,CONTENTTYPEID,DESCRIPTION,ERRORS,
FILES,KEYWORDS,NAVTEXT,PUBLISHDATE,PUBLISHDAY,PUBLISHMONTH,
PUBLISHYEAR,TITLE,UPLOADIMAGE,UPLOADPDF,USERNAME,VERSIONNUMBER,VERSIONSTATUS
ID
--
2. There is a backend server that creates and populates the CONTENT for
wddxPacket..
"We are NOT concerned with the backend".

3. Custom Tag used to get wddxPacket Data when passed the ContentItemID
-






SELECT WDDXPacket   FROMContentVersion
WHERE   ContentItemID = #Attributes.ContentItemID#
AND VersionStatusID = 'PUB'





// Pass the structure back to the caller
x = Evaluate("caller.#Attributes.ReturnStruct# = strTemp");
// Pass the successful boolean return code
caller.bolReturnCode = 1;





---
-

4. Custom Tag Call in the dynamic page when passed
(?ContentItemID=1,..7...,20)
-

-

5.Output Content
-
#strProduct.Title#,#strProduct.BODY# 
-
6.When we ran other sections of the application WITHOUT any WDDX..
All of them ran ok and scaled quite well.

7. Load Test Results for CF5.0 and CFMX for ABOVE section of code
gave the below results.
CF5.0   CFMX
Win2k   Win2k
600 Mhx P3  2(Dual) 750Mhx P3 (NOTE.. Bigger box)
Avg 12% CPU Avg 85%-95% CPU

Any ideas why we are seeing CPU usage shoot up in CFMX?
Joe

wddxPacket is stored in SQL2K as ntext(16) TYPE and can get upto 2-4
pages long.
WDDX in SQL2k saved in one FIELD(WDDXPacket) of the Table
(ContentVersion)***
MS Commercial<P>All MS&reg; models are made in the USA to
the highest quality standards.</P><P>The
MS&reg; Series grew out of our decades of experience with
Highline<SUP>TM</SUP>, Trimline, and units combined with the
time-proven technologies of The Asian&reg; series. All MS&reg;
models are made in the USA to the highest quality standards. </P><H2>Key Distinguishing Feature</H2><P>North America</P><TABLE
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD
class=headerWhite bgColor=#ff6633>Related Links and
Brochures:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P><A target=_new
href="http://@url@/pdfs/P1903.pdf">The MS Series - Commercial
(PDF)</A></P>11PMPMS Commercial have mechanical non-computing
specifically designed for industrial, and fleet
applications.com.jpg,P103.pdf, industrial, fleet, north
americaMS-Commercial2002-3-7T0:0:0-5:00732002The
MS Series - Commercial2A2.8_MS_com.jpgP1903.pdfabc>42PUB

--------------------
---
-Original Message-
From: Jesse Noller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 4:17 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe-

I'll weigh in here and try to make it simple:

Q: What is different in WDDX?

A: Everything. Every slice, splice and piece of code. Completely and totally
different.

What is changed in the syntax? Not much.


The question everyone wants to know is: What code are you running that you
are saying is slower than CF5?

Much like the current thread on the loading of the text file: What is the
template you are running that is going slow?

Engineering/Development here in-house cannot fix a bug we cannot define, or
identify.

Saying "WDDX is slow" does nothing. Saying "WDDX translation given X and Y
data is slow vs CF5" helps us more.

This way, a bug can be entered, escalated and a patch can be generated.

Jesse Noller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Macromedia Server Development
Unix/Linux "special guy"

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 4:08 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
> >
> > OK, th

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Thanks for your HELP & TIME Dave!

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:35 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> If i had the time to break code and write test cases and
> docs on WDDX ...CFMX.. i would have done so... have to
> work...on development like everybody else on this list..
> and then do testing on my spare time I was hoping some
> MM folks would know something on internals... that was the
> original reason.. to the post.. or if another developer
> personally did some test...   I am not complaining...WRONG...
> the questions were pretty clear. DOES ANYONE KNOW INTERNALS
> OF WDDX in CFMX? ANSWER:NO So i am back on my track to test..
> breaking code into pieces. I dont think any responsible
> developer would provide their Prod Code... Code will follow
> for the anxious

A four-point response:

1. You could've broken the code into sections in the time that it took you
to post this message. I mean, seven sections of code, we're talking about
twenty lines of cut-n-paste code you'd have to add - two lines around each
section, one additional line per section for output. Running one more load
test would take, well, as much time as it's taken you to run previous load
tests.

2. Maybe it's just me, but your posts don't seem to clearly state your
questions in the way that you say they do.

3. Plenty of people post "Prod Code" on this list, every day. There's very
little stuff in one CF program that hasn't been written thousands of times
over in other CF programs. If you need to "sanitize" the code to remove
specific portions, that's fine. However, you haven't posted any code at all
- you haven't even posted pseudocode, really.

4. I don't think anyone's especially anxious to see your code.

And, in closing, I think you misunderstood the point of my response; it
wasn't to discuss how you're not playing well with others, or anything like
that. Instead, it was an attempt to give you what I thought was the shortest
path out of your current problem situation. You're free to use it, or not.
You can continue waiting for some "deep throat" at Macromedia to say, "yes,
there's a secret problem with line 55 of the CF MX module which handles WDDX
serialization on Windows platforms on Tuesdays during a full moon". Good
luck, though, with whichever path you choose.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Dave Watts

> If i had the time to break code and write test cases and 
> docs on WDDX ...CFMX.. i would have done so... have to 
> work...on development like everybody else on this list.. 
> and then do testing on my spare time I was hoping some 
> MM folks would know something on internals... that was the 
> original reason.. to the post.. or if another developer
> personally did some test...   I am not complaining...WRONG... 
> the questions were pretty clear. DOES ANYONE KNOW INTERNALS 
> OF WDDX in CFMX? ANSWER:NO So i am back on my track to test.. 
> breaking code into pieces. I dont think any responsible 
> developer would provide their Prod Code... Code will follow 
> for the anxious

A four-point response:

1. You could've broken the code into sections in the time that it took you
to post this message. I mean, seven sections of code, we're talking about
twenty lines of cut-n-paste code you'd have to add - two lines around each
section, one additional line per section for output. Running one more load
test would take, well, as much time as it's taken you to run previous load
tests.

2. Maybe it's just me, but your posts don't seem to clearly state your
questions in the way that you say they do.

3. Plenty of people post "Prod Code" on this list, every day. There's very
little stuff in one CF program that hasn't been written thousands of times
over in other CF programs. If you need to "sanitize" the code to remove
specific portions, that's fine. However, you haven't posted any code at all
- you haven't even posted pseudocode, really.

4. I don't think anyone's especially anxious to see your code.

And, in closing, I think you misunderstood the point of my response; it
wasn't to discuss how you're not playing well with others, or anything like
that. Instead, it was an attempt to give you what I thought was the shortest
path out of your current problem situation. You're free to use it, or not.
You can continue waiting for some "deep throat" at Macromedia to say, "yes,
there's a secret problem with line 55 of the CF MX module which handles WDDX
serialization on Windows platforms on Tuesdays during a full moon". Good
luck, though, with whichever path you choose.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Dave,
If i had the time to break code and write test cases and docs on
WDDX ...CFMX.. i would have done so... have to work...on development
like everybody else on this list.. and then do testing on my spare time
I was hoping some MM folks would know something on internals...
that was the original reason.. to the post.. or if another developer
personally did some test...
I am not complaining...WRONG... the questions were pretty clear.
DOES ANYONE KNOW INTERNALS OF WDDX in CFMX? ANSWER:NO
So i am back on my track to test.. breaking code into pieces.
I dont think any responsible developer would provide their Prod Code...
Code will follow for the anxious
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:07 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Code Code Code I actually explained in detail what the
> code was doing...earlier

Well, you certainly didn't provide anything as clear as what you've provided
here. Even here, you'd be better off posting the actual code, I think. So,
yes, "Code Code Code". If you want answers to programming questions, code is
helpful. This is starting to remind me of "Car Talk", the radio show in
which people call up, and say that their car is making this noise or that
noise, and the hosts try to guess what's wrong with it, but they really have
no idea of course.

You know, you may well be right about your suspicions of CF MX. However,
you're really going about this the wrong way, I think. Instead of taking
what appears to many to be a belligerent, uncommunicative attitude, you
might be better served by taking a more cooperative approach, and providing
more information about the specifics of your problem. There are plenty of
people here who will be willing to help you out, if you do so.

> 1.
> returns... ID,Title,Subject,Body,Published
> date,Version,Published_by etc.
> 2.Now Serialize this and write it to database in ONE FIELD/COLUMN.
> 3.Create a dynamic page... that gets the content from the database.
> 4. Deserialize ie WDDX2CFML
> 5.Display the content... #OutString.Title#
> 6.LOAD TEST with MS STRESS Tool/Load Runner or some else
> 30-50 users in
> CFMX...hitting
>   the same pages for different Content.(Url?cid=10,Url?cid=12 .)
> 7.Do the same for CF5.0...

OK. Here's a possible plan for you. You've divided up your script into the
above parts. You might wrap timers around each part, using GetTickCount,
then output each part's elapsed time at the bottom of your page - a
technique straight from "CF Performance Tuning 101". Then, while running
your app under your maximum test load - the maximum number of users that
still returns a tolerable response, according to your response time ceiling
- view the application with a browser and look at those values. Then, do the
same for CF 5. Then, compare which parts were slower than which other parts,
if any, or whether everything was proportionally slower. For example, you
might find that the part that's much slower in CF MX is the WDDX2CFML part,
or you might find it's your database query. Once you've found that, you can
more easily create a reproducible test case, like Jochem did earlier. You
can then post that, and others can verify your results.

But if you just keep complaining that CF MX is slower, then you're unlikely
to get any help with your real problem. This would be a shame for you, since
you'd have wasted so much time, and it would be a shame for others, if
there's a real problem to be found. Good luck!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Great Response was RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Mike Brunt

Dave, this is such a helpful reply for anyone looking to apply Performance
Tuning to ColdFusion apps.  I know you neither asked for nor indeed need my
endorsement but I just wanted to amplify to others the worth of your
response, having gone through these exercises many, many times myself.

Kind Regards - Mike Brunt, CTO
Webapper
http://www.webapper.com
Downey CA Office
562.243.6255
AIM - webappermb

"Webapper - Making the NET work"


-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 6:07 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Code Code Code I actually explained in detail what the
> code was doing...earlier

Well, you certainly didn't provide anything as clear as what you've provided
here. Even here, you'd be better off posting the actual code, I think. So,
yes, "Code Code Code". If you want answers to programming questions, code is
helpful. This is starting to remind me of "Car Talk", the radio show in
which people call up, and say that their car is making this noise or that
noise, and the hosts try to guess what's wrong with it, but they really have
no idea of course.

You know, you may well be right about your suspicions of CF MX. However,
you're really going about this the wrong way, I think. Instead of taking
what appears to many to be a belligerent, uncommunicative attitude, you
might be better served by taking a more cooperative approach, and providing
more information about the specifics of your problem. There are plenty of
people here who will be willing to help you out, if you do so.

> 1.
> returns... ID,Title,Subject,Body,Published
> date,Version,Published_by etc.
> 2.Now Serialize this and write it to database in ONE FIELD/COLUMN.
> 3.Create a dynamic page... that gets the content from the database.
> 4. Deserialize ie WDDX2CFML
> 5.Display the content... #OutString.Title#
> 6.LOAD TEST with MS STRESS Tool/Load Runner or some else
> 30-50 users in
> CFMX...hitting
>   the same pages for different Content.(Url?cid=10,Url?cid=12 .)
> 7.Do the same for CF5.0...

OK. Here's a possible plan for you. You've divided up your script into the
above parts. You might wrap timers around each part, using GetTickCount,
then output each part's elapsed time at the bottom of your page - a
technique straight from "CF Performance Tuning 101". Then, while running
your app under your maximum test load - the maximum number of users that
still returns a tolerable response, according to your response time ceiling
- view the application with a browser and look at those values. Then, do the
same for CF 5. Then, compare which parts were slower than which other parts,
if any, or whether everything was proportionally slower. For example, you
might find that the part that's much slower in CF MX is the WDDX2CFML part,
or you might find it's your database query. Once you've found that, you can
more easily create a reproducible test case, like Jochem did earlier. You
can then post that, and others can verify your results.

But if you just keep complaining that CF MX is slower, then you're unlikely
to get any help with your real problem. This would be a shame for you, since
you'd have wasted so much time, and it would be a shame for others, if
there's a real problem to be found. Good luck!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Dave Watts

> Code Code Code I actually explained in detail what the 
> code was doing...earlier

Well, you certainly didn't provide anything as clear as what you've provided
here. Even here, you'd be better off posting the actual code, I think. So,
yes, "Code Code Code". If you want answers to programming questions, code is
helpful. This is starting to remind me of "Car Talk", the radio show in
which people call up, and say that their car is making this noise or that
noise, and the hosts try to guess what's wrong with it, but they really have
no idea of course.

You know, you may well be right about your suspicions of CF MX. However,
you're really going about this the wrong way, I think. Instead of taking
what appears to many to be a belligerent, uncommunicative attitude, you
might be better served by taking a more cooperative approach, and providing
more information about the specifics of your problem. There are plenty of
people here who will be willing to help you out, if you do so.

> 1.
> returns... ID,Title,Subject,Body,Published 
> date,Version,Published_by etc.
> 2.Now Serialize this and write it to database in ONE FIELD/COLUMN.
> 3.Create a dynamic page... that gets the content from the database.
> 4. Deserialize ie WDDX2CFML
> 5.Display the content... #OutString.Title#
> 6.LOAD TEST with MS STRESS Tool/Load Runner or some else  
> 30-50 users in
> CFMX...hitting
>   the same pages for different Content.(Url?cid=10,Url?cid=12 .)
> 7.Do the same for CF5.0...

OK. Here's a possible plan for you. You've divided up your script into the
above parts. You might wrap timers around each part, using GetTickCount,
then output each part's elapsed time at the bottom of your page - a
technique straight from "CF Performance Tuning 101". Then, while running
your app under your maximum test load - the maximum number of users that
still returns a tolerable response, according to your response time ceiling
- view the application with a browser and look at those values. Then, do the
same for CF 5. Then, compare which parts were slower than which other parts,
if any, or whether everything was proportionally slower. For example, you
might find that the part that's much slower in CF MX is the WDDX2CFML part,
or you might find it's your database query. Once you've found that, you can
more easily create a reproducible test case, like Jochem did earlier. You
can then post that, and others can verify your results.

But if you just keep complaining that CF MX is slower, then you're unlikely
to get any help with your real problem. This would be a shame for you, since
you'd have wasted so much time, and it would be a shame for others, if
there's a real problem to be found. Good luck!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Matt Liotta

It's not opposite. WDDX has performance issues. However, I was able to
work around those issues and create an application that performed great.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:30 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> "I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of
WDDX
> intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX"
> 
> 
> 
> The below is opposite to your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> > The use of WDDX was not a performance related one as obviously WDDX
> > doesn't perform that well.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 5:15 PM
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> 
> > The use of WDDX was not a performance related one as obviously WDDX
> > doesn't perform that well. We used WDDX as a way of marshalling data
> > between the presentation and business tiers as well as marshalling
data
> > between CF and a variety of other programming languages. Quite
simply,
> > the use of WDDX was an architectural decision that had serious
> > performance implications that we had to work around.
> >
> > Personally, I have always thought the WDDX Java library sucked and
as
> > such have maintained a private fork of the code. I don't know if the
> > CFMX WDDX implementation makes use of the Java classes found at
> > http://www.openwddx.org, but I certainly have need to modify those
> > classes for my use.
> >
> > I am currently looking into using JAXB to replace the WDDX
serializer
> > and deserializer classes.
> >
> > Matt Liotta
> > President & CEO
> > Montara Software, Inc.
> > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > V: 415-577-8070
> > F: 415-341-8906
> > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ben Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:05 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > > > Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I
can't
> > give
> > > > exact details.
> > >
> > > It doesn't have to be details about the work for the company
itself.
> > > There
> > > seems to be a lot of factors in determining whether your
> > application(s)
> > > ran
> > > with great performance (i.e. number of users, where you used WDDX,
> > etc)
> > > and
> > > I'm curious as to how you gauge them.  While I can see how someone
> > would
> > > be
> > > able to write an application that uses WDDX better than someone
else's
> > > app,
> > > I'm not sure how you determined that your app ran with great
> > performace.
> > > In
> > > my understanding, there will always be overhead with WDDX because
you
> > have
> > > to serialize and deserialize.
> > >
> > > Can you also give some of your ideas on when someone should use
WDDX,
> > when
> > > not to, certain things to watch out for, etc?
> > >
> > > For myself, my favorite part about WDDX is being able to transfer
data
> > to
> > > Javascript easily.  Beyond that, I haven't had _too_ much use for
it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ben Johnson
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Jochem van Dieten

Joe Eugene wrote:
> Code Code Code I actually explained in detail what the code was
> doing...earlier

Code says more than an explanation. I submitted some code and within an 
hour several people reproduced the exact bug which has been filed with 
Macromedia (and I can go to bed). So far your thread is 4 days old and 
you are hardly nearer to a solution.

Jochem

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Todd

Hey Joe...

"3.Create a dynamic page... that gets the content from the database."

You mean to tell me that you're writing out a file so that the file can 
retrieve more information from the db?  Could you clarify this statement 
please?

~Todd

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Code Code Code I actually explained in detail what the code was
doing...earlier

1.
returns... ID,Title,Subject,Body,Published date,Version,Published_by etc.
2.Now Serialize this and write it to database in ONE FIELD/COLUMN.
3.Create a dynamic page... that gets the content from the database.
4. Deserialize ie WDDX2CFML
5.Display the content... #OutString.Title#
6.LOAD TEST with MS STRESS Tool/Load Runner or some else  30-50 users in
CFMX...hitting
  the same pages for different Content.(Url?cid=10,Url?cid=12 .)
7.Do the same for CF5.0...


Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 01:07 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > You havent given out any peformance tests.. other than MM Perf brief
> > I am NOT sure...you guys have any performance test for the details we
> > are talking about here...What can you expect from developers..?
>
> What? We're supposed to psychically guess what code you find is slower?
> Give me a break...
>
> Everyone here is waiting for you to actually show us a piece of code that
> you think is slower on CFMX. We've seen one script posted from someone
> else. Where's yours?
>
> I'm busy developing stuff on CFMX - it may have escaped your notice that
I'
> m working on a Mac and therefore don't have pre-MX versions of ColdFusion
> to test stuff on.
>
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

"I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of WDDX
intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX"



The below is opposite to your statement.



> The use of WDDX was not a performance related one as obviously WDDX
> doesn't perform that well.



Joe




- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> The use of WDDX was not a performance related one as obviously WDDX
> doesn't perform that well. We used WDDX as a way of marshalling data
> between the presentation and business tiers as well as marshalling data
> between CF and a variety of other programming languages. Quite simply,
> the use of WDDX was an architectural decision that had serious
> performance implications that we had to work around.
>
> Personally, I have always thought the WDDX Java library sucked and as
> such have maintained a private fork of the code. I don't know if the
> CFMX WDDX implementation makes use of the Java classes found at
> http://www.openwddx.org, but I certainly have need to modify those
> classes for my use.
>
> I am currently looking into using JAXB to replace the WDDX serializer
> and deserializer classes.
>
> Matt Liotta
> President & CEO
> Montara Software, Inc.
> http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> V: 415-577-8070
> F: 415-341-8906
> P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:05 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> > > Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't
> give
> > > exact details.
> >
> > It doesn't have to be details about the work for the company itself.
> > There
> > seems to be a lot of factors in determining whether your
> application(s)
> > ran
> > with great performance (i.e. number of users, where you used WDDX,
> etc)
> > and
> > I'm curious as to how you gauge them.  While I can see how someone
> would
> > be
> > able to write an application that uses WDDX better than someone else's
> > app,
> > I'm not sure how you determined that your app ran with great
> performace.
> > In
> > my understanding, there will always be overhead with WDDX because you
> have
> > to serialize and deserialize.
> >
> > Can you also give some of your ideas on when someone should use WDDX,
> when
> > not to, certain things to watch out for, etc?
> >
> > For myself, my favorite part about WDDX is being able to transfer data
> to
> > Javascript easily.  Beyond that, I haven't had _too_ much use for it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ben Johnson
> >
> >
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Matt Liotta

WDDX intensive applications: Applications that require serialization and
deserialization of WDDX for every call to the middle-tier. Each web
request required one or more calls to the middle-tier.

Great performance: The applications were able to scale to meet the
demand the users placed on them with only a couple of servers. These
applications successfully handled 10-100 million page views per month.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> How about details on what you mean by...
> 
> "successfully been able to achieve great performance"
> "intensive applications"
> 
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Matt Liotta wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't
give
> > exact details.
> >
> > Matt Liotta
> > President & CEO
> > Montara Software, Inc.
> > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > V: 415-577-8070
> > F: 415-341-8906
> > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:14 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > > Can you give us some details?
> > >
> > > Is this performance equal in (CF 4.5, 5, and MX)?
> > > What software did you use for Load Testing? No of users? Machine?
OS?
> > > Client Scope WDDX involved?
> > > Data store WDDX involved?
> > > Any performance results.. would be really appreciated.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out
of
> > WDDX
> > > > intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX.
> > > >
> > > > Matt Liotta
> > > > President & CEO
> > > > Montara Software, Inc.
> > > > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > > > V: 415-577-8070
> > > > F: 415-341-8906
> > > > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:15 AM
> > > > > To: CF-Talk
> > > > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stace,
> > > > > No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big
> > > > problem..(client
> > > > > scope WDDX)... if all this
> > > > > turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize)
> > > > performance
> > > > > in CFMX unless there
> > > > >     is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in
> > client
> > > > scope
> > > > > is
> > > > > great...
> > > > > The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the
database
> > for
> > > > > Content MGMT,
> > > > > i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer
used
> > this
> > > > > method..The data
> > > > >     is even redundant.
> > > > > Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope
WDDX
> > in
> > > > > CFMX..?
> > > > > Curious?
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets
> > stored
> > > > in
> > > > > client
> > > > > > scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stace
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Matt Liotta

The use of WDDX was not a performance related one as obviously WDDX
doesn't perform that well. We used WDDX as a way of marshalling data
between the presentation and business tiers as well as marshalling data
between CF and a variety of other programming languages. Quite simply,
the use of WDDX was an architectural decision that had serious
performance implications that we had to work around.

Personally, I have always thought the WDDX Java library sucked and as
such have maintained a private fork of the code. I don't know if the
CFMX WDDX implementation makes use of the Java classes found at
http://www.openwddx.org, but I certainly have need to modify those
classes for my use.

I am currently looking into using JAXB to replace the WDDX serializer
and deserializer classes.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:05 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> > Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't
give
> > exact details.
> 
> It doesn't have to be details about the work for the company itself.
> There
> seems to be a lot of factors in determining whether your
application(s)
> ran
> with great performance (i.e. number of users, where you used WDDX,
etc)
> and
> I'm curious as to how you gauge them.  While I can see how someone
would
> be
> able to write an application that uses WDDX better than someone else's
> app,
> I'm not sure how you determined that your app ran with great
performace.
> In
> my understanding, there will always be overhead with WDDX because you
have
> to serialize and deserialize.
> 
> Can you also give some of your ideas on when someone should use WDDX,
when
> not to, certain things to watch out for, etc?
> 
> For myself, my favorite part about WDDX is being able to transfer data
to
> Javascript easily.  Beyond that, I haven't had _too_ much use for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ben Johnson
> 
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Ben Johnson

> Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't give
> exact details.

It doesn't have to be details about the work for the company itself.  There
seems to be a lot of factors in determining whether your application(s) ran
with great performance (i.e. number of users, where you used WDDX, etc) and
I'm curious as to how you gauge them.  While I can see how someone would be
able to write an application that uses WDDX better than someone else's app,
I'm not sure how you determined that your app ran with great performace.  In
my understanding, there will always be overhead with WDDX because you have
to serialize and deserialize.

Can you also give some of your ideas on when someone should use WDDX, when
not to, certain things to watch out for, etc?

For myself, my favorite part about WDDX is being able to transfer data to
Javascript easily.  Beyond that, I haven't had _too_ much use for it.




Ben Johnson

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Alex

How about details on what you mean by...

"successfully been able to achieve great performance"
"intensive applications"


On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Matt Liotta wrote:

> Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't give
> exact details.
>
> Matt Liotta
> President & CEO
> Montara Software, Inc.
> http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> V: 415-577-8070
> F: 415-341-8906
> P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:14 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> > Can you give us some details?
> >
> > Is this performance equal in (CF 4.5, 5, and MX)?
> > What software did you use for Load Testing? No of users? Machine? OS?
> > Client Scope WDDX involved?
> > Data store WDDX involved?
> > Any performance results.. would be really appreciated.
> >
> > Joe
> > - Original Message -----
> > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:35 PM
> > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> >
> > > I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of
> WDDX
> > > intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX.
> > >
> > > Matt Liotta
> > > President & CEO
> > > Montara Software, Inc.
> > > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > > V: 415-577-8070
> > > F: 415-341-8906
> > > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:15 AM
> > > > To: CF-Talk
> > > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > >
> > > > Stace,
> > > > No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big
> > > problem..(client
> > > > scope WDDX)... if all this
> > > > turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize)
> > > performance
> > > > in CFMX unless there
> > > > is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in
> client
> > > scope
> > > > is
> > > > great...
> > > > The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database
> for
> > > > Content MGMT,
> > > > i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used
> this
> > > > method..The data
> > > > is even redundant.
> > > > Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX
> in
> > > > CFMX..?
> > > > Curious?
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets
> stored
> > > in
> > > > client
> > > > > scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stace
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> > > > > To: CF-Talk
> > > > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sean,
> > > > > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we
> are
> > > > narrowing
> > > > > it
> > > > > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data
> > > store
> > > > > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> > > > > Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its
> the
> > > WDDX
> > > > > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%...
> > > Atleast we
> > > > > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> > > > > I will try to write case/result...end of this week or
> so.
> > > > > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > > > > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in
> &g

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Matt Liotta

Sorry, I no longer work for the companies in question, so I can't give
exact details.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> Can you give us some details?
> 
> Is this performance equal in (CF 4.5, 5, and MX)?
> What software did you use for Load Testing? No of users? Machine? OS?
> Client Scope WDDX involved?
> Data store WDDX involved?
> Any performance results.. would be really appreciated.
> 
> Joe
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:35 PM
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> 
> > I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of
WDDX
> > intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX.
> >
> > Matt Liotta
> > President & CEO
> > Montara Software, Inc.
> > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> > V: 415-577-8070
> > F: 415-341-8906
> > P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:15 AM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > > Stace,
> > > No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big
> > problem..(client
> > > scope WDDX)... if all this
> > > turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize)
> > performance
> > > in CFMX unless there
> > > is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in
client
> > scope
> > > is
> > > great...
> > > The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database
for
> > > Content MGMT,
> > > i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used
this
> > > method..The data
> > > is even redundant.
> > > Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX
in
> > > CFMX..?
> > > Curious?
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
> > > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets
stored
> > in
> > > client
> > > > scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
> > > >
> > > > Stace
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> > > > To: CF-Talk
> > > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > >
> > > > Sean,
> > > > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we
are
> > > narrowing
> > > > it
> > > > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data
> > store
> > > > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> > > >         Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its
the
> > WDDX
> > > > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%...
> > Atleast we
> > > > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> > > > I will try to write case/result...end of this week or
so.
> > > > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > > > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in
> > CFMX?
> > > > Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be
> > helpful.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > > > > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation
> > differences
> > > > >

Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 01:07 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> You havent given out any peformance tests.. other than MM Perf brief
> I am NOT sure...you guys have any performance test for the details we
> are talking about here...What can you expect from developers..?

What? We're supposed to psychically guess what code you find is slower? 
Give me a break...

Everyone here is waiting for you to actually show us a piece of code that 
you think is slower on CFMX. We've seen one script posted from someone 
else. Where's yours?

I'm busy developing stuff on CFMX - it may have escaped your notice that I'
m working on a Mac and therefore don't have pre-MX versions of ColdFusion 
to test stuff on.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Jesse Noller

Joe-

I'll weigh in here and try to make it simple:

Q: What is different in WDDX?

A: Everything. Every slice, splice and piece of code. Completely and totally different.

What is changed in the syntax? Not much.


The question everyone wants to know is: What code are you running that you are saying 
is slower than CF5?

Much like the current thread on the loading of the text file: What is the template you 
are running that is going slow?

Engineering/Development here in-house cannot fix a bug we cannot define, or identify.

Saying "WDDX is slow" does nothing. Saying "WDDX translation given X and Y data is 
slow vs CF5" helps us more.

This way, a bug can be entered, escalated and a patch can be generated.

Jesse Noller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Macromedia Server Development
Unix/Linux "special guy" 

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 4:08 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> >
> > OK, that sounds like good progress so maybe we'll all stop ragging on
> you
> > :)
> You havent given out any peformance tests.. other than MM Perf brief
> I am NOT sure...you guys have any performance test for the details we
> are talking about here...What can you expect from developers..?
> 
> > Well, it's apples and oranges... in CF5, WDDX2CFML was written in C/C++
> > and now it's completely rewritten in Java. It's just... different code.
> I'
> > m not on the product team so I don't have access to the source.
> 
> Repeated... no spec details given. This news was public.. in NEO/Beta
> releases.
> What would be good information is some like... (eg IIF scales differently
> in
> CFMX Vs CF5.0)
> 
> SO the question is : Are there any changes/updates made to
> WDDX...in CFMX Vs CF5.0 (regardless of JAVA/C++ engine.. unicode)?
> that can possibly make it run slower (like the COM issue) yet
> Unknown(TESTING).
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> 
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 08:54 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
> > > narrowing
> > > it
> > > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
> > > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> >
> > OK, that sounds like good progress so maybe we'll all stop ragging on
> you
> > :)
> >
> > > Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the
> WDDX
> > > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast
> we
> > > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> >
> > Hmm, interesting. That should be pretty easy to performance test.
> >
> > > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
> >
> > Well, it's apples and oranges... in CF5, WDDX2CFML was written in C/C++
> > and now it's completely rewritten in Java. It's just... different code.
> I'
> > m not on the product team so I don't have access to the source.
> >
> > > Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
> >
> > It's Unicode capable now - but that's just by virtue of it being
> > implemented in Java. As far as I know, there were no specific behavioral
> > changes (except what's in the release notes etc).
> >
> > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> >
> > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > -- Margaret Atwood
> >
> >
> 
__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Can you give us some details?

Is this performance equal in (CF 4.5, 5, and MX)?
What software did you use for Load Testing? No of users? Machine? OS?
Client Scope WDDX involved?
Data store WDDX involved?
Any performance results.. would be really appreciated.

Joe
- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of WDDX
> intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX.
>
> Matt Liotta
> President & CEO
> Montara Software, Inc.
> http://www.montarasoftware.com/
> V: 415-577-8070
> F: 415-341-8906
> P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:15 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> > Stace,
> > No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big
> problem..(client
> > scope WDDX)... if all this
> > turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize)
> performance
> > in CFMX unless there
> > is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in client
> scope
> > is
> > great...
> > The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database for
> > Content MGMT,
> > i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used this
> > method..The data
> > is even redundant.
> > Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX in
> > CFMX..?
> > Curious?
> > Joe
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
> > Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> >
> > > Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets stored
> in
> > client
> > > scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
> > >
> > > Stace
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > > Sean,
> > > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
> > narrowing
> > > it
> > > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data
> store
> > > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> > > Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the
> WDDX
> > > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%...
> Atleast we
> > > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> > > I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
> > > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in
> CFMX?
> > > Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be
> helpful.
> > > Thanks
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
> > > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > > > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation
> differences
> > > > > between
> > > > > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
> > > >
> > > > Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in
> > Java
> > in
> > > > CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
> > > rewrite.
> > > >
> > > > > What does #1 mean?
> > > >
> > > > I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know
> what
> > the
> > > > behavior was or how it changed.
> > > >
> > > > > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom
> > tags..
> > is
> > > > > there any internal CFMX
> > > > > implementation that would degrade performance compared
> to
> > CF5.0?
> > > >
> > > > Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I
> have no
> > > > idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a
> test
> > case
> > > > and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try
> it
> > for
> > > > yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> > > >
> > > > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > > > -- Margaret Atwood
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

>
> OK, that sounds like good progress so maybe we'll all stop ragging on you
> :)
You havent given out any peformance tests.. other than MM Perf brief
I am NOT sure...you guys have any performance test for the details we
are talking about here...What can you expect from developers..?

> Well, it's apples and oranges... in CF5, WDDX2CFML was written in C/C++
> and now it's completely rewritten in Java. It's just... different code. I'
> m not on the product team so I don't have access to the source.

Repeated... no spec details given. This news was public.. in NEO/Beta
releases.
What would be good information is some like... (eg IIF scales differently in
CFMX Vs CF5.0)

SO the question is : Are there any changes/updates made to
WDDX...in CFMX Vs CF5.0 (regardless of JAVA/C++ engine.. unicode)?
that can possibly make it run slower (like the COM issue) yet
Unknown(TESTING).

Joe



- Original Message -
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 08:54 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
> > narrowing
> > it
> > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
> > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
>
> OK, that sounds like good progress so maybe we'll all stop ragging on you
> :)
>
> > Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
> > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
> > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
>
> Hmm, interesting. That should be pretty easy to performance test.
>
> > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
>
> Well, it's apples and oranges... in CF5, WDDX2CFML was written in C/C++
> and now it's completely rewritten in Java. It's just... different code. I'
> m not on the product team so I don't have access to the source.
>
> > Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
>
> It's Unicode capable now - but that's just by virtue of it being
> implemented in Java. As far as I know, there were no specific behavioral
> changes (except what's in the release notes etc).
>
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 
__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 10:14 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database for
> Content MGMT,
> i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used this
> method..The data
> is even redundant.

Sounds like Spectra :)


Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 08:54 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are 
> narrowing
> it
> down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
> that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..

OK, that sounds like good progress so maybe we'll all stop ragging on you 
:)

> Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
> parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
> are seeing a pattern here with tests.

Hmm, interesting. That should be pretty easy to performance test.

> Is it possible that you can find out..
> How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?

Well, it's apples and oranges... in CF5, WDDX2CFML was written in C/C++ 
and now it's completely rewritten in Java. It's just... different code. I'
m not on the product team so I don't have access to the source.

> Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.

It's Unicode capable now - but that's just by virtue of it being 
implemented in Java. As far as I know, there were no specific behavioral 
changes (except what's in the release notes etc).

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Matt Liotta

I have successfully been able to achieve great performance out of WDDX
intensive applications using CF 4.5, 5, and MX.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:15 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> Stace,
> No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big
problem..(client
> scope WDDX)... if all this
> turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize)
performance
> in CFMX unless there
> is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in client
scope
> is
> great...
> The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database for
> Content MGMT,
> i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used this
> method..The data
> is even redundant.
> Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX in
> CFMX..?
> Curious?
> Joe
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> 
> 
> > Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets stored
in
> client
> > scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
> >
> > Stace
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> > Sean,
> > I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
> narrowing
> > it
> > down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data
store
> > that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> > Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the
WDDX
> > parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%...
Atleast we
> > are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> > I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
> > Is it possible that you can find out..
> > How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in
CFMX?
> >         Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be
helpful.
> > Thanks
> > Joe
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation
differences
> > > > between
> > > > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
> > >
> > > Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in
> Java
> in
> > > CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
> > rewrite.
> > >
> > > > What does #1 mean?
> > >
> > > I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know
what
> the
> > > behavior was or how it changed.
> > >
> > > > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom
> tags..
> is
> > > > there any internal CFMX
> > > > implementation that would degrade performance compared
to
> CF5.0?
> > >
> > > Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I
have no
> > > idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a
test
> case
> > > and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try
it
> for
> > > yourself.
> > >
> > > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> > >
> > > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > > -- Margaret Atwood
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Stacy Young

No I haven't...but if that were the case in your instance I would have
suggested storing complex objects in session scope in cfmx rather then
client wddx packets...but in your case it's obvious that's not applicable.

I don't use all to much wddx, sorry can't contribute on that front...

Stace

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:15 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

Stace,
No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big problem..(client
scope WDDX)... if all this
turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize) performance
in CFMX unless there
is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in client scope is
great...
The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database for
Content MGMT,
i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used this
method..The data
is even redundant.
Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX in CFMX..?
Curious?
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets stored in
client
> scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
>
> Stace
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
> Sean,
> I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
narrowing
> it
> down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
> that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
> parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
> are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
> Is it possible that you can find out..
> How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
> Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
> Thanks
> Joe
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences
> > > between
> > > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
> >
> > Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in Java
in
> > CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
> rewrite.
> >
> > > What does #1 mean?
> >
> > I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know what
the
> > behavior was or how it changed.
> >
> > > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags..
is
> > > there any internal CFMX
> > > implementation that would degrade performance compared to
CF5.0?
> >
> > Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I have no
> > idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a test
case
> > and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try it for
> > yourself.
> >
> > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> >
> > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > -- Margaret Atwood
> >
> >
>
> 

__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Stace,
No..Not Client Scope. That would be a real big problem..(client
scope WDDX)... if all this
turns out to be true(WDDX Serialize - Deserialize) performance
in CFMX unless there
is an optmized way(cfmx) to code WDDX. Yea.. WDDX in client scope is
great...
The App am dealing with...WDDX is written to the database for
Content MGMT,
i didnt code this.. am not sure.. why the developer used this
method..The data
is even redundant.
Have you had a chance to LOAD TEST any Client Scope WDDX in CFMX..?
Curious?
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets stored in
client
> scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?
>
> Stace
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
> Sean,
> I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are
narrowing
> it
> down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
> that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
> Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
> parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
> are seeing a pattern here with tests.
> I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
> Is it possible that you can find out..
> How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
> Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
> Thanks
> Joe
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences
> > > between
> > > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
> >
> > Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in Java
in
> > CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
> rewrite.
> >
> > > What does #1 mean?
> >
> > I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know what
the
> > behavior was or how it changed.
> >
> > > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags..
is
> > > there any internal CFMX
> > > implementation that would degrade performance compared to
CF5.0?
> >
> > Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I have no
> > idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a test
case
> > and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try it for
> > yourself.
> >
> > Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> >
> > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> > -- Margaret Atwood
> >
> >
>
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Stacy Young

Hey Joe I'm curious...these objects...are they wddx packets stored in client
scope which in turn is in your client variable datasource?

Stace


-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

Sean,
I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are narrowing
it
down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
are seeing a pattern here with tests.
I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
Is it possible that you can find out..
How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
Thanks
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences
> > between
> > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
>
> Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in Java in
> CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
rewrite.
>
> > What does #1 mean?
>
> I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know what the
> behavior was or how it changed.
>
> > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags.. is
> > there any internal CFMX
> > implementation that would degrade performance compared to CF5.0?
>
> Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I have no
> idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a test case
> and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try it for
> yourself.
>
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

__
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Sean,
I havent come to a final test result.. but i think we are narrowing
it
down to the Complex Object(WDDX) returned from the data store
that gets parsed out WDDX2CFML..
Custom Tags are probably running ok/fast.. probably its the WDDX
parsing..in CFMX that causes the CPU to run 80-90%... Atleast we
are seeing a pattern here with tests.
I will try to write case/result...end of this week or so.
Is it possible that you can find out..
How the Java Implementation of WDDX2CFML has changed in CFMX?
Any WDDX implementation changes(Not in docs) will be helpful.
Thanks
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences
> > between
> > CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX
>
> Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in Java in
> CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete
rewrite.
>
> > What does #1 mean?
>
> I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know what the
> behavior was or how it changed.
>
> > If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags.. is
> > there any internal CFMX
> > implementation that would degrade performance compared to CF5.0?
>
> Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I have no
> idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a test case
> and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try it for
> yourself.
>
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:26 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences 
> between
> CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX

Er, yes, it was written in C/C++ in CF5 and it's been rewritten in Java in 
CFMX. As has everything else. Read my lips Joe: CFMX is a complete rewrite.

> What does #1 mean?

I don't know. I don't use JavaScript with queries so I don't know what the 
behavior was or how it changed.

> If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags.. is
> there any internal CFMX
> implementation that would degrade performance compared to CF5.0?

Well, custom tag invocations are faster in CFMX than in CF5. I have no 
idea about WDDX. Do you *think* it is slower? Have you written a test case 
and *proved* there is a noticeable difference? Why don't you try it for 
yourself.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Joe Eugene

Sean,
Do you know of any internal WDDX implementation differences between
CFMX and CF5.0 .. CFMX Docs say
1.New in ColdFusion MX: ColdFusion preserves the case of column names in
JavaScript. (Earlier releases converted query column names to
lowercase.) (Does this mean "JavaScript" type casing?)
2.New in ColdFusion MX: This tag supports several encoding formats. The
default encoding format is UTF-8. The tag interoperates with Unicode.

What does #1 mean?
If WDDX data is Stored in a DB and output using custom tags.. is
there any internal CFMX
implementation that would degrade performance compared to CF5.0?

Thanks
Joe


- Original Message -
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 09:11 , Sean A Corfield wrote:
> > On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 07:31 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> >> MM's performance brief is probably based on optimized CFMX code
> >> and maybe optimized CF.50 code.
> > Nope. As far as I know it's the exact same code run on both CF5 and
CFMX.
> > I will ask the QA lab to confirm this.
>
> I have confirmed with the CF QA team that the tests were run on identical
> code. It was not optimized for a specific version of CF. Satisfied?
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-30 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 09:11 , Sean A Corfield wrote:
> On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 07:31 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>>  MM's performance brief is probably based on optimized CFMX code
>>  and maybe optimized CF.50 code.
> Nope. As far as I know it's the exact same code run on both CF5 and CFMX.
> I will ask the QA lab to confirm this.

I have confirmed with the CF QA team that the tests were run on identical 
code. It was not optimized for a specific version of CF. Satisfied?

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 07:31 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   MM's performance brief is probably based on optimized CFMX code
>   and maybe optimized CF.50 code.

Nope. As far as I know it's the exact same code run on both CF5 and CFMX. 
I will ask the QA lab to confirm this.

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Dave Watts

> MM's performance brief is probably based on optimized 
> CFMX code and maybe optimized CF.50 code. How do you 
> think this is going to help any of us.. unless the docs 
> say.. Change all your code to get "THIS" performance.
> Have you personally done any LOAD Testing with your CF5.0 
> code (run on CFMX) that uses almost all the features of 
> CF5.0? WDDX? Functions? Graphs(of Course deprecated)? 
> CFSCRIPT? The problems reported so far.. has been the 
> results of Tests done by different users. We are still 
> testing.. hope will find out something.

OK. At this point, you seem to be doing load testing, right? Rather than
worry about the MM performance brief, or looking for nonexistent CF
MX-specific tuning hints, I'd recommend that you use your load testing to
find out the specific things that are slow within your application. If you
want, you could then compare those bottlenecks to the ones you had in CF 5,
but that's not necessary. Then, see if you can identify the CF MX
bottlenecks, let people know what they are, and look for solutions to those
specific problems. It won't do any good for you to just say "I'm load
testing, and it's slower" - you have to find the specific things that are
slower (which is part of a typical performance tuning load test procedure).

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Joe Eugene

Exactly Todd.CFGRAPH will still work.. but looks funny.
Isnt this why we are all spending time testing..???

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:56 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Fwd: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Nevermind, I see..  is now  ... (oh no!)

~Todd


>Why are "Graphs" deprecated...?
>
>~Todd


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Fwd: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Todd

Nevermind, I see..  is now  ... (oh no!)

~Todd


>Why are "Graphs" deprecated...?
>
>~Todd

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Todd

At 10:31 PM 7/29/2002 -0400, Joe (again) wrote:
> Have you personally done any LOAD Testing with your CF5.0 code
> (run on CFMX) that uses almost all the features of CF5.0? WDDX? 
> Functions?
> Graphs(of Course deprecated)? CFSCRIPT?

Why are "Graphs" deprecated...?

~Todd

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Joe Eugene

Chris,
MM's performance brief is probably based on optimized CFMX code
and maybe optimized CF.50 code. How do you think this is going
to help any of us.. unless the docs say.. Change all your code
to get "THIS" performance.
Have you personally done any LOAD Testing with your CF5.0 code
(run on CFMX) that uses almost all the features of CF5.0? WDDX? Functions?
Graphs(of Course deprecated)? CFSCRIPT?
The problems reported so far.. has been the results of Tests done by
different users.
 We are still testing.. hope will find out something.
Joe



-Original Message-
From: Chris Kief [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 2:59 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe,

After reading your recent slew of posts, I feel compelled to speak up
(as others already have) for the majority of CFMX users on this list
that are doing just fine with the product. Sure, some things are running
slower (COM for sure) and waiting for page compilations on _development_
boxes is a slight nuisance. But in the overall scheme of things, most of
us are doing just fine with CFMX and we're finding similar results with
our production applications as Macromedia did with their tests (read the
performance brief:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/whitepapers/pdf/cfmx_perfo
rmance_brief.pdf). For what is basically a 1.0 release, it's pretty damn
good.

I believe this is where Sean and others are coming from on this. We're
not having your type of trouble with our code (I should note here that
I'm not paying attention to CPU usage. Rather I'm monitoring response
times and throughput which matter more to the end user's experience).

So this leads us to the question that Sean has been asking all along,
what are YOU doing in YOUR tests? The more information you can provide
about your specific situation the better. Response times and code
samples would be the best place to start. Have you run your app. with
debugging turned on? If so, what pages are bottlenecking the
application? Can we get some code samples from those?

There are many of us that would like to help in this situation, but I
have to agree with Sean, the lack of details on your behalf is making it
rather difficult. If you really want to get to the root of your issues,
give us a something more to go on.

Chris Kief



-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 10:46 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 09:06 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   If you have personally done some convincing TESTS ... we would
>   be happy to know your TEST results.

While I ran CF5 and CFMX (pre-release) on the same Win2K system, my
experience was that CFMX was faster (once the templates had been
compiled
on the first pass). CPU usage is higher with CFMX while it is compiling
(obviously) but I'm not sure that the overall average CPU usage was
higher
with CFMX. As I said, I don't believe 100% CPU usage is a problem per
se.

>   I am NOT asking you to comment on what "I" SAY/DO/TEST/CODE...
rather
> YOUR
> TEST results...

But I am very interested in the *code* of your tests - I want to know
what
the response times are with your code (something you haven't told us).

>   If you have none...why dont you tune yourself out of this
THREAD.

Perhaps if you were less unpleasant about this whole matter people would

be more co-operative with you? I'm trying really hard to help you here
but
you haven't produced anything concrete for folks to work with. You've
just
been nasty and pointed fingers all around - while other people are quite

clearly not having the same problems that you believe you are seeing.

Stop raising your voice and show us the code and the response times.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood



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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Joe Eugene

Stacy,

I am still in the process of Load Testing different sections of the Content
App...
I suspect.. Its something to do with (Wddx datastore,Custom tags etc)
We didnt write this code...and i dont advice the method the app was written.
I will post some Code/Results .. when i find out something. Maybe Wddx is
implemented different in CFMXdont know. Think there were 2-3 Wddx
options added in CFMX.
In the mean time.. if you have time to test.. you can try MS Web Load
Testing tool.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/itsolutio
ns/intranet/downloads/webstres.asp?frame=true
Optimizing code should be fairly easy.. once we can find the problem.

Thanks
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Joe.
>
> Please track down the portion of your app that causes the CPU spike and
post
> the code. Then I'm sure plenty of folks will have ideas on how to
optimize.
>
> Stace
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:25 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
> This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
> anybody
> I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
> If i can see some facts/proofs.
>
> Joe
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:05 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
> On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 05:57 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..
>
> Yes, so it seems :)
>
> > We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
> > is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
> > how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)
>
> That's because you are not being specific about what code you are testing
> that is running slower. Show us your code!
>
> > Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
> > you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.
>
> Because the code fragment you posted did not seem to be real code (a
> simple cfloop that created an impossibly long string). No one has
> suggested that such basic constructs need rewriting in CFMX.
>
> Custom tag invocation is definitely faster - several people here have
> testified to that.
>
> > ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
> > If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?
>
> READ THE PERFORMANCE BRIEF! As Todd (I think?) said, people are beginning
> to tune you out because you are not providing any facts. Try to be
> specific. Show us code that you've tested that is slower on CFMX and then
> we can see why that is.
>
> > NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully..
hard
> > for me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i
read
> > something.
>
> Why is it hard? You read something, you make a note of the article.
>
> C'mon Joe, you're whining a lot but you're not backing it up with details.
> .
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
>
>
> 
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Mike Byers

I will admit that I think that our organization has codeing issues :)  I am
trying to show this and get past it, but the code analyzer blows up before
it get very far.  I run it and it churns for about 2 minutes maybe and then
returns an error in one of its templates with a wddx error.  I really want
to try this tool out!  Any suggestios ?

Thanks,

Mike

-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 9:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe you're not using the fusebox methodology by any chance are you?

Personally I'd love to see Joe submit this code for the app so we can break 
it apart for him and show him why it's not scaling well.  I think it's time 
for those people that have CFMX running take a stand and say, "Gee, well.. 
I've been running it for over 2 months and ... whew... does it fly."  Every 
situation is unique I realize, but this is not rocket science here and no 
one will ever admit that the fault just might lie in their code.  It's very 
easy to stand up and start swearing and place the blame and it's always 
time consuming to get to the root of the problem and swearing and placing 
the blame isn't going to get you there any faster...

Has anyone on the list thought about creating a peer review mailing 
list?  I realize that not everyone can sit and stare at code (we all have 
our own stuff to do), I myself would be curious about being reviewed by my 
peer to see if I'm on the right track.

~Todd

At 09:53 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Is the app large? Are you able to break the test down to just portions at a
>time? Long shot but perhaps there's a particular operation taking place
that
>causes the memory spike.
>
>Stace
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:55 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>Alright guys.. i have tried almost what everybody generally knows
>to CFMX perfomance..
>COM, Trusted Cache, Caching template size, Compile takes time etc...
>
>Is there anything else that has NOT been brought up? (MM Docs suck)
>This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it cant
>scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX
>Sorry on my language.. but this is really frustrating!
>Joe
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:41 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>No we are not using any COM objects.
>
>Joe
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>Joe Eugene wrote:
> > None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> > 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> > 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> > 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> > 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
> >
> > NONE of these have done any good so far.
>
>That's weird.
>
>Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.
>
>If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.
>
>Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
>quite a bit).
>
>Jesse

Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
Moderator @ FlashCFM.com - http://www.flashCFM.com/
Back-end Moderator @ Ultrashock.com - http://www.ultrashock.com/


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread todd

Stace,

I think we've been trying to tell him that since the beginning and he's 
yet to do such.  He's one of those guys that would rather sit and complain 
than actually tracking down the problem.  I think everyone on the list 
that has confronted Joe has been more than helpful (except Joe, of 
course), especially Sean.  Sean's a busy guy and to get ... 5-6 responses 
from him on a single topic, those better be damn good questions imho. ;)  
(sigh... all those wasted keystrokes! ;) ehhehehe)

~Todd

p.s.: Sean C., yes, I'm the one that say tune out... 
nanananananananananananananan


On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Stacy Young wrote:

> Joe.
> 
> Please track down the portion of your app that causes the CPU spike and post
> the code. Then I'm sure plenty of folks will have ideas on how to optimize.
> 
> Stace
-- 

Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ |
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion   |
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/  |
http://www.flashCFM.com/   - webRat (Moderator)|
http://www.ultrashock.com/ - webRat (Back-end Moderator)   |


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-29 Thread Stacy Young

Joe.

Please track down the portion of your app that causes the CPU spike and post
the code. Then I'm sure plenty of folks will have ideas on how to optimize.

Stace


-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
anybody
I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
If i can see some facts/proofs.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 05:57 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..

Yes, so it seems :)

> We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
> is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
> how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)

That's because you are not being specific about what code you are testing
that is running slower. Show us your code!

> Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
> you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.

Because the code fragment you posted did not seem to be real code (a
simple cfloop that created an impossibly long string). No one has
suggested that such basic constructs need rewriting in CFMX.

Custom tag invocation is definitely faster - several people here have
testified to that.

> ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
> If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?

READ THE PERFORMANCE BRIEF! As Todd (I think?) said, people are beginning
to tune you out because you are not providing any facts. Try to be
specific. Show us code that you've tested that is slower on CFMX and then
we can see why that is.

> NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully.. hard
> for me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i read
> something.

Why is it hard? You read something, you make a note of the article.

C'mon Joe, you're whining a lot but you're not backing it up with details.
.

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood



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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Chris Kief

Joe,

After reading your recent slew of posts, I feel compelled to speak up
(as others already have) for the majority of CFMX users on this list
that are doing just fine with the product. Sure, some things are running
slower (COM for sure) and waiting for page compilations on _development_
boxes is a slight nuisance. But in the overall scheme of things, most of
us are doing just fine with CFMX and we're finding similar results with
our production applications as Macromedia did with their tests (read the
performance brief:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/whitepapers/pdf/cfmx_perfo
rmance_brief.pdf). For what is basically a 1.0 release, it's pretty damn
good.

I believe this is where Sean and others are coming from on this. We're
not having your type of trouble with our code (I should note here that
I'm not paying attention to CPU usage. Rather I'm monitoring response
times and throughput which matter more to the end user's experience).

So this leads us to the question that Sean has been asking all along,
what are YOU doing in YOUR tests? The more information you can provide
about your specific situation the better. Response times and code
samples would be the best place to start. Have you run your app. with
debugging turned on? If so, what pages are bottlenecking the
application? Can we get some code samples from those?

There are many of us that would like to help in this situation, but I
have to agree with Sean, the lack of details on your behalf is making it
rather difficult. If you really want to get to the root of your issues,
give us a something more to go on.

Chris Kief



-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 10:46 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 09:06 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   If you have personally done some convincing TESTS ... we would
>   be happy to know your TEST results.

While I ran CF5 and CFMX (pre-release) on the same Win2K system, my 
experience was that CFMX was faster (once the templates had been
compiled 
on the first pass). CPU usage is higher with CFMX while it is compiling 
(obviously) but I'm not sure that the overall average CPU usage was
higher 
with CFMX. As I said, I don't believe 100% CPU usage is a problem per
se.

>   I am NOT asking you to comment on what "I" SAY/DO/TEST/CODE...
rather 
> YOUR
> TEST results...

But I am very interested in the *code* of your tests - I want to know
what 
the response times are with your code (something you haven't told us).

>   If you have none...why dont you tune yourself out of this
THREAD.

Perhaps if you were less unpleasant about this whole matter people would

be more co-operative with you? I'm trying really hard to help you here
but 
you haven't produced anything concrete for folks to work with. You've
just 
been nasty and pointed fingers all around - while other people are quite

clearly not having the same problems that you believe you are seeing.

Stop raising your voice and show us the code and the response times.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread mark brinkworth

Joe,

Have you read the performance brief?

http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/whitepapers/pdf/cfmx_performance_brief.pdf

Bear in mind that the tests of scalability etc, are typically done using 
what would be a production environment. In development you have the overhead 
of compiling the templates, and certainly during this compilation phase the 
CPU utilisation peaks at up to 100%, but this is hardly reflective of what 
the user would see.

Cheers
Mark




>
>This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
>anybody
>I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
>If i can see some facts/proofs.
>
>Joe
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:05 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 05:57 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> > I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..
>
>Yes, so it seems :)
>
> > We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
> > is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
> > how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)
>
>That's because you are not being specific about what code you are testing
>that is running slower. Show us your code!
>
> > Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
> > you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.
>
>Because the code fragment you posted did not seem to be real code (a
>simple cfloop that created an impossibly long string). No one has
>suggested that such basic constructs need rewriting in CFMX.
>
>Custom tag invocation is definitely faster - several people here have
>testified to that.
>
> > ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
> > If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?
>
>READ THE PERFORMANCE BRIEF! As Todd (I think?) said, people are beginning
>to tune you out because you are not providing any facts. Try to be
>specific. Show us code that you've tested that is slower on CFMX and then
>we can see why that is.
>
> > NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully.. 
>hard
> > for me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i 
>read
> > something.
>
>Why is it hard? You read something, you make a note of the article.
>
>C'mon Joe, you're whining a lot but you're not backing it up with details.
>.
>
>"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
>-- Margaret Atwood
>
>
>
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 09:06 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   If you have personally done some convincing TESTS ... we would
>   be happy to know your TEST results.

While I ran CF5 and CFMX (pre-release) on the same Win2K system, my 
experience was that CFMX was faster (once the templates had been compiled 
on the first pass). CPU usage is higher with CFMX while it is compiling 
(obviously) but I'm not sure that the overall average CPU usage was higher 
with CFMX. As I said, I don't believe 100% CPU usage is a problem per se.

>   I am NOT asking you to comment on what "I" SAY/DO/TEST/CODE... rather 
> YOUR
> TEST results...

But I am very interested in the *code* of your tests - I want to know what 
the response times are with your code (something you haven't told us).

>   If you have none...why dont you tune yourself out of this THREAD.

Perhaps if you were less unpleasant about this whole matter people would 
be more co-operative with you? I'm trying really hard to help you here but 
you haven't produced anything concrete for folks to work with. You've just 
been nasty and pointed fingers all around - while other people are quite 
clearly not having the same problems that you believe you are seeing.

Stop raising your voice and show us the code and the response times.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Joe Eugene

Original Topic of the Thread.

Windows 2000 boxes for same CONTENT..
  Testing done with "MICROSOFT WEB APPLICATION STRESS TOOL"
  JRun.exe is whats taking all the CPU on CFMX box
  Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on 750Mhz
DUAL P3 Processor
  Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on 600Mhz
Single P3 Processor

YES:maybe 3 Custom Tags,WDDX,Queries,Basic CF stuff
NO:CFX,COM,CORBA,Sessions/Client vars etc

Has anybody had the opportunity to do scale tests and have seen the above
Results..
 if so... Do you know what is causing this?
Saw some posts saying 100% CPU utilization is OK!!!.
I am interested in finding out what is causing this.. since the only change
was CF code run on CFMX Vs CF5.0
Thanks
Joe


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Joe Eugene

Sean,
The purpose of this thread is NOT for us to comment on your ATTITUDE...
If you have a problem with the Thread and are NOT interested.. why even
follow it???
Otherwise
If you have personally done some convincing TESTS ... we would
be happy to know your TEST results.
I am NOT asking you to comment on what "I" SAY/DO/TEST/CODE... rather YOUR
TEST
results...
If you have none...why dont you tune yourself out of this THREAD.
Joe


-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:29 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 08:24 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
> anybody

We're still waiting for you to furnish your facts and proof Joe...

> I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
> If i can see some facts/proofs.

Read the performance brief and take your issues up with Damon Cooper.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 08:24 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
> anybody

We're still waiting for you to furnish your facts and proof Joe...

> I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
> If i can see some facts/proofs.

Read the performance brief and take your issues up with Damon Cooper.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Joe Eugene

This is really funny over and over.. no facts/proofs of test by
anybody
I would really be exited and happy to know that CFMX Scales...
If i can see some facts/proofs.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 05:57 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..

Yes, so it seems :)

> We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
> is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
> how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)

That's because you are not being specific about what code you are testing
that is running slower. Show us your code!

> Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
> you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.

Because the code fragment you posted did not seem to be real code (a
simple cfloop that created an impossibly long string). No one has
suggested that such basic constructs need rewriting in CFMX.

Custom tag invocation is definitely faster - several people here have
testified to that.

> ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
> If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?

READ THE PERFORMANCE BRIEF! As Todd (I think?) said, people are beginning
to tune you out because you are not providing any facts. Try to be
specific. Show us code that you've tested that is slower on CFMX and then
we can see why that is.

> NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully.. hard
> for me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i read
> something.

Why is it hard? You read something, you make a note of the article.

C'mon Joe, you're whining a lot but you're not backing it up with details.
.

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 05:57 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..

Yes, so it seems :)

> We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
> is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
> how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)

That's because you are not being specific about what code you are testing 
that is running slower. Show us your code!

> Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
> you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.

Because the code fragment you posted did not seem to be real code (a 
simple cfloop that created an impossibly long string). No one has 
suggested that such basic constructs need rewriting in CFMX.

Custom tag invocation is definitely faster - several people here have 
testified to that.

> ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
> If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?

READ THE PERFORMANCE BRIEF! As Todd (I think?) said, people are beginning 
to tune you out because you are not providing any facts. Try to be 
specific. Show us code that you've tested that is slower on CFMX and then 
we can see why that is.

> NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully.. hard
> for me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i read
> something.

Why is it hard? You read something, you make a note of the article.

C'mon Joe, you're whining a lot but you're not backing it up with details.
.

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-28 Thread Joe Eugene

I am having a hard time.. conveying the messsage..

We are talking about basic code in ColdFusion.. every answer i get
is like.. Custom Tags..(oh for CFMX u need to do this.. or this is
how you can Optimize.. for CFMX...CFC .. function blah blah)

Nobody has said.. alright.. if you code  this way in CF5.0
you can speed it up writing  like THIS(.) in CFMX.
So basically are we all on the path BASICS of CF (CFQUERY,CFLOOP)
doesnt need optimization.. so if thats the theory...

ARE YOU GUYS SAYING THAT CFMX is 10% FASTER THAN CF5.0?
If so.. What were the TESTS you did to prove this?

Joe

NOTE: Sean... i read quite a lot from here and there.. its awfully.. hard
for
me to write down who the author,published date.. etc everytime i read
something.


-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 01:58 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> eg i saw a statment like 
> MM docs.. dont imply "/" anywhere.. so where "/" come from?
> it doesnt break the code.. so is this optimized CMFX?

Where did you see that statement? You need to start being a bit more
specific about things and then you'll get more helpful answers.

Maybe you saw code like that in the Coding Guidelines I published? Yes, we
are trying to require XHTML-compliant generated pages so it's more
consistent to have XHTML-compliant CFML source code. There's no magic here.
  Nothing to do with CFMX. In fact, requiring the closing / in tag
invocations means that our developers have to be more defensive when they
write custom tags because of the start/end executionMode thing (see my
recent blog entry for more details).

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 01:58 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> eg i saw a statment like 
> MM docs.. dont imply "/" anywhere.. so where "/" come from?
> it doesnt break the code.. so is this optimized CMFX?

Where did you see that statement? You need to start being a bit more 
specific about things and then you'll get more helpful answers.

Maybe you saw code like that in the Coding Guidelines I published? Yes, we 
are trying to require XHTML-compliant generated pages so it's more 
consistent to have XHTML-compliant CFML source code. There's no magic here.
  Nothing to do with CFMX. In fact, requiring the closing / in tag 
invocations means that our developers have to be more defensive when they 
write custom tags because of the start/end executionMode thing (see my 
recent blog entry for more details).

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 12:35 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>   in cases where you can  other wise.. i dont see.. how you 
> can

Well, there's no real reason why cfscript should be faster (or slower) 
than using tags now - it all compiles to similar Java code.

>   
>   
>   
>   

Are you saying this particular test runs slower on CFMX than CF5? (I'd be 
surprised if either system could cope with the resultant 'x' string).

>   All the basic functions in CF are almost the same.. Its only when you 
> get
> into CUSTOM TAGS/functions which can be implemented in .CFC which can be 
> called CFMX optimized code...

But custom tags and CFCs now run about the same speed (i.e., custom tags 
are much faster in CFMX than they were in CF5).

>   I am trying to do the research.. you guys might be right.. There 
> might be
> some internal CFMX settings that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50.
> .

Keep us posted on results you find - but make sure you post the tests too 
so we can verify those results.

>   Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont think so!)..

There are no "magic settings".

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 09:39 , Todd wrote:
> Sean Corfield is hosting the CFMX Best Practices:
> http://www.corfield.org/coldfusion/codingStandards.htm

Note that this document is about writing *maintainable* code more than 
writing high-performance code. I may update the public document if we 
update our internal guidelines with specific CFMX performance guidelines.

> One of the best ideas I've seen so far was for a job posting... a company
> had their own "Internal CFUG" ... which... damn... this makes a *lot* of
> sense for a company.

Yeah, we pretty much do this. We have a mailing list for CF-related 
development issues and we also have a CF-architecture list.

Todd's right about how much time this takes up. I wrote an article for the 
DesDev Center on Facades as a design pattern to improve performance in 
Rich Internet Apps but I don't get enough time to write a regular column 
so my blog is about the best I can do right now. I used to edit a C++ 
journal - and write articles for it (mostly re-published on my web site) - 
but had to give it up for lack of time (and subsequently turned down CUJ 
when they asked me to write for them).

I'd love to spend more time and effort digging into what makes some CF4.5 
/ CF5 behave badly on CFMX and how to make them run better. I'd love to 
spend some time investigating Fusebox performance in particular since that 
subject has cropped up here. Yes, I do come across some performance tweaks 
in my day job - I'll blog the ones I think people might be able to use...

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 08:17 , Joe Eugene wrote:
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on 
> 750Mhz
> DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
> 600Mhz Single P3 Processor

Right, but that's 'just' CPU usage and has nothing to do with actual 
throughput capacity. I admit that I'm surprised at the high-CPU usage - I'
d expect to see that only when CFMX is actually compiling templates on 
every page hit. I'd be interested to see the response times / pages per 
minutes served in these tests. As I said in another post - we see 100% CPU 
utilization on web servers with no ill effects.

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Todd

 is just following XHTML standards, nothing more.  It 
doesn't speed or slow down your application in any case (to my knowledge).

~Todd

At 04:58 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks Guys... for all your replies.. i will continue.. the load test
>and see what i can come up with.. It would have been great...if
>MM published some like
>"CF Coding Practices for CFMX" Vs "CF Coding Practices BEFORE CFMX".
>eg i saw a statment like 
>MM docs.. dont imply "/" anywhere.. so where "/" come from?
>it doesnt break the code.. so is this optimized CMFX?
>
>If this is the case Developers will have a lot of work..getting
>code optimized for CFMX...
>Joe
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 4:29 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
> > To make my point clear...I think Basic operations in
> > CFMX show a degraded Performance under load...for
> > specific settings..
> > I am trying to do the research.. you guys might be
> > right.. There might be some internal CFMX settings
> > that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
> > Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont
> > think so!).. Probably in the HEAD of some ENGINEER
> > MM LAIDOFF.
>
>I doubt that there are any "magic settings" anywhere. The fact is, CF MX is
>a completely different engine than CF 5, so the appropriate tuning settings
>for CF 5 are largely irrelevant. Even with CF 5, optimal tuning settings had
>to be determined by load testing your servers with their specific
>applications. You'll need to repeat this process with CF MX. I suspect that
>the settings you end up with may be completely different. For example,
>there's a "simultaneous requests" setting; to determine the optimal value
>for this, you really had to do load testing under CF 5 or any prior version.
>The same is true for CF MX now, however its unlikely to be the same value as
>it was for CF 5.
>
>You might want to approach this "from scratch" - don't follow any
>assumptions about what works well with CF 5. Load test your individual
>application to find the bottlenecks, and identify the operations that are
>taking longer (and causing those bottlenecks). Again, they might not be the
>same set of operations that caused bottlenecks in CF 5. See what changes you
>can make in those operations, and test to see what difference those changes
>can make. Then, once you're done load testing your application specifically,
>use the same load test path to determine optimal settings for CF server
>tuning switches.
>
>Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
>http://www.figleaf.com/
>voice: (202) 797-5496
>fax: (202) 797-5444
>
>
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Joe Eugene

Thanks Guys... for all your replies.. i will continue.. the load test
and see what i can come up with.. It would have been great...if
MM published some like
"CF Coding Practices for CFMX" Vs "CF Coding Practices BEFORE CFMX".
eg i saw a statment like 
MM docs.. dont imply "/" anywhere.. so where "/" come from?
it doesnt break the code.. so is this optimized CMFX?

If this is the case Developers will have a lot of work..getting
code optimized for CFMX...
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 4:29 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> To make my point clear...I think Basic operations in
> CFMX show a degraded Performance under load...for
> specific settings..
> I am trying to do the research.. you guys might be
> right.. There might be some internal CFMX settings
> that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
> Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont
> think so!).. Probably in the HEAD of some ENGINEER
> MM LAIDOFF.

I doubt that there are any "magic settings" anywhere. The fact is, CF MX is
a completely different engine than CF 5, so the appropriate tuning settings
for CF 5 are largely irrelevant. Even with CF 5, optimal tuning settings had
to be determined by load testing your servers with their specific
applications. You'll need to repeat this process with CF MX. I suspect that
the settings you end up with may be completely different. For example,
there's a "simultaneous requests" setting; to determine the optimal value
for this, you really had to do load testing under CF 5 or any prior version.
The same is true for CF MX now, however its unlikely to be the same value as
it was for CF 5.

You might want to approach this "from scratch" - don't follow any
assumptions about what works well with CF 5. Load test your individual
application to find the bottlenecks, and identify the operations that are
taking longer (and causing those bottlenecks). Again, they might not be the
same set of operations that caused bottlenecks in CF 5. See what changes you
can make in those operations, and test to see what difference those changes
can make. Then, once you're done load testing your application specifically,
use the same load test path to determine optimal settings for CF server
tuning switches.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Dave Watts

> To make my point clear...I think Basic operations in 
> CFMX show a degraded Performance under load...for 
> specific settings..
> I am trying to do the research.. you guys might be 
> right.. There might be some internal CFMX settings 
> that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
> Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont 
> think so!).. Probably in the HEAD of some ENGINEER 
> MM LAIDOFF.

I doubt that there are any "magic settings" anywhere. The fact is, CF MX is
a completely different engine than CF 5, so the appropriate tuning settings
for CF 5 are largely irrelevant. Even with CF 5, optimal tuning settings had
to be determined by load testing your servers with their specific
applications. You'll need to repeat this process with CF MX. I suspect that
the settings you end up with may be completely different. For example,
there's a "simultaneous requests" setting; to determine the optimal value
for this, you really had to do load testing under CF 5 or any prior version.
The same is true for CF MX now, however its unlikely to be the same value as
it was for CF 5.

You might want to approach this "from scratch" - don't follow any
assumptions about what works well with CF 5. Load test your individual
application to find the bottlenecks, and identify the operations that are
taking longer (and causing those bottlenecks). Again, they might not be the
same set of operations that caused bottlenecks in CF 5. See what changes you
can make in those operations, and test to see what difference those changes
can make. Then, once you're done load testing your application specifically,
use the same load test path to determine optimal settings for CF server
tuning switches.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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Re: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Douglas Brown

Well,

I would start off by looking at what differences there might be in the 2
different servers you are testing against. I have found many times I think a
coding error is causing problems, and it ends up being something totally
different when dealing with 2 different machines. Is this a fresh install of
MX?

1. Service packs for the OS
2. Service packs for the database.
3. MDAC updates

Are you using any CFX tags in your app? If so, start there...




Douglas Brown
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:46 PM
Subject: Fwd: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> > settings that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
> > Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont think so!)..
> > Probably in the HEADof some ENGINEER MM LAIDOFF.
> >Joe
>
> Joe,
>
> No offense, but ... when people start saying b.s. like this, I just start
> to tune out what they were original asking for.  There are ways of being
> professional without having to start to slam people, companies, etc.  In
> fact, sometimes if you focus on the problem at hand instead taking your
> shots now and then, people might perceive you know what you're talking
> about and attempt to help you hunt down the problem.  I can understand
> being upset, but being upset isn't going to solve your problem.
>
> Good luck with your research.
>
> ~Todd
>
>
> Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> http://www.web-rat.com/
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
> Moderator @ FlashCFM.com - http://www.flashCFM.com/
> Back-end Moderator @ Ultrashock.com - http://www.ultrashock.com/
>
> 
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Fwd: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Todd

> settings that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
> Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont think so!)..
> Probably in the HEADof some ENGINEER MM LAIDOFF.
>Joe

Joe,

No offense, but ... when people start saying b.s. like this, I just start 
to tune out what they were original asking for.  There are ways of being 
professional without having to start to slam people, companies, etc.  In 
fact, sometimes if you focus on the problem at hand instead taking your 
shots now and then, people might perceive you know what you're talking 
about and attempt to help you hunt down the problem.  I can understand 
being upset, but being upset isn't going to solve your problem.

Good luck with your research.

~Todd


Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
Moderator @ FlashCFM.com - http://www.flashCFM.com/
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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Joe Eugene

Todd,Stacy,Jesse
Thanks for the great posts... I am fairly aware of coding patterns and
styles..
Code that scale and different ways of scaling.
eg (short-cut eval,evaluate,if, switch, IIF..coded right, cfscript,
Conditional looping rather
nested (CFIF) test looping, variable scoping etc to name a few..)

Almost all the posts back.. "Poor Coding"... Can you tell me how you can
improve
a LOOP in CFMX Vs CF5.0???
You can do INDEX/CONDITION/Script(For,While) .. There might be some
advantage
in cases where you can  other wise.. i dont see.. how you can
optimize
a LOOP FOR CFMX Vs CF.50.




All the basic functions in CF are almost the same.. Its only when you get
into CUSTOM TAGS/functions
which can be implemented in .CFC which can be called CFMX optimized code...
What if you are not using CUSTOM TAGS?.. this is generic question.. i am
not
trying to GET into Custom Tags topic.
To make my point clear...I think Basic operations in CFMX show a degraded
Performance
under load...for specific settings..
I am trying to do the research.. you guys might be right.. There might be
some internal CFMX
settings that prove.. CFMX Scales better than... CF.50..
Well..where are the MAGIC SETTINGS (MM docs.. dont think so!)..
Probably in the HEADof some ENGINEER MM LAIDOFF.

Joe
Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:40 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


>Todd, great post, but how do we learn to optimize for MX?  Trial and
>error?  You can write crappy slow code in any language, but a few hits
>as to how to optimize for MX sure would be nice.

Sean Corfield is hosting the CFMX Best Practices:
http://www.corfield.org/coldfusion/codingStandards.htm

CF-Talk's very own Michael Dinowitz has good suggestions as well (not
nessarily cfmx related):
http://www.fusionauthority.com/alert/index.cfm?alertid=9#Tech1

Almost certainly that there's something to be found at:
http://www.forta.com/ (there's even CFDJ articles written by him located
here).

There's also some articles over at the Macromedia DesDev:
http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/coldfusion/

There's also certainly more community sites on the way, I know of one but
it's too early to announce anything.

And, as I much as I hate to say it, some of these resources are still being
written.  Some cost money (I remember when MetalSite (previous employer)
paid gTriad to review our code base, man that was interesting reading --
however, some of it was just common sense and our dev group was failing).

One of the best ideas I've seen so far was for a job posting... a company
had their own "Internal CFUG" ... which... damn... this makes a *lot* of
sense for a company.  Continued education should *always* be part of a
development team and if upper management can't see the benifits of an
internal CFUG... whew... I don't want to work there.

Something else I want to bring up... just because there's a boatload of
people that are rushing to put CFMX in their production environment doesn't
mean that *YOU* have too.  I did the majority of my research during beta
testing, not everyone has the time and luxury of doing this... I'm just
fortunately geek enough to want to know how this works (and, being single
helps too).  If your CF4/5 app isn't running 100% in CFMX, then, it's time
to research CFCs, It's time to research better UDF writing, it's time to
research the new things in CFMX so that you *can* take advantage of these
new features and the new speed.

Paying attention to the mailing list for a few months before jumping into
CFMX is always a good thing.  Don't jump, let others jump... take notes.

This blogging thing isn't a stupid idea.  I make it a regular ritual to go
read Sean's, Matt L.'s, CFGuru, Spike's, etc, etc (Yo, David Watts, Ray
Camden...  where's yours?!).  Some of their topics might be a little too
advanced or into the underpinnings of java or axis, but now and then I do
pull back some worthwhile information from someone's noggin and... perhaps
someday when I get around to learning Java, I'll understand what the hell
they were posting when they were rambling about it.  If you want URLs to
these sites, feel free to head over to my domain ( http://www.web-rat.com/
or http://fullasagoog.com/ ) -- I'm trying my best to keep links for all
the cfmx related blogs.

I know personally that I want to start writing up a whitepaper for my
methodology, but I just haven't gotten around to doing such and in the
process of too much freelance work and starting my own business (or,
looking for a new job - hint 

RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Matt Liotta

> for those people that have CFMX running take a stand and say, "Gee,
well..
> I've been running it for over 2 months and ... whew... does it fly."
>
I have been running CFMX in production since beta 3 with only minor
issues that were addressed in CFMX final.

I have recently starting working on a little bit of tuning for
application server (built on top of CFMX), so I'd be ready to publish
performance numbers when our product is released. I am sharing the
results below for the purposes of this thread. However, I must point out
that these results are preliminary and may not accurately represent the
performance of our application server when it is released. Do not depend
on these numbers.

Server: Dell PowerEdge 1650 1 866 CPU, 256MB RAM, 1 10,000 RPM SCSI
disk, 2 10/100 load balancing and fault redundant NICs
OS: RedHat Linux 7.1 with up-to-date errata, custom kernel, ReiserFS,
Apache 1.3.23

All tests were done with pre-compiled and loaded CFMs/CFCs and Java
classes. The below tests represent the best results achieved during
sustained testing. By adjusting the number of simultaneous users, their
protocol, and their connection speed these numbers would be reduced.

All requests dynamically processed: 26 requests per second
Starved RAM with Alchemy caching engine: 1,036 requests per second
Alchemy caching engine: 1,815 requests per second

-Matt

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Todd

>Todd, great post, but how do we learn to optimize for MX?  Trial and
>error?  You can write crappy slow code in any language, but a few hits
>as to how to optimize for MX sure would be nice.

Sean Corfield is hosting the CFMX Best Practices:
http://www.corfield.org/coldfusion/codingStandards.htm

CF-Talk's very own Michael Dinowitz has good suggestions as well (not 
nessarily cfmx related):
http://www.fusionauthority.com/alert/index.cfm?alertid=9#Tech1

Almost certainly that there's something to be found at:
http://www.forta.com/ (there's even CFDJ articles written by him located here).

There's also some articles over at the Macromedia DesDev:
http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/coldfusion/

There's also certainly more community sites on the way, I know of one but 
it's too early to announce anything.

And, as I much as I hate to say it, some of these resources are still being 
written.  Some cost money (I remember when MetalSite (previous employer) 
paid gTriad to review our code base, man that was interesting reading -- 
however, some of it was just common sense and our dev group was failing).

One of the best ideas I've seen so far was for a job posting... a company 
had their own "Internal CFUG" ... which... damn... this makes a *lot* of 
sense for a company.  Continued education should *always* be part of a 
development team and if upper management can't see the benifits of an 
internal CFUG... whew... I don't want to work there.

Something else I want to bring up... just because there's a boatload of 
people that are rushing to put CFMX in their production environment doesn't 
mean that *YOU* have too.  I did the majority of my research during beta 
testing, not everyone has the time and luxury of doing this... I'm just 
fortunately geek enough to want to know how this works (and, being single 
helps too).  If your CF4/5 app isn't running 100% in CFMX, then, it's time 
to research CFCs, It's time to research better UDF writing, it's time to 
research the new things in CFMX so that you *can* take advantage of these 
new features and the new speed.

Paying attention to the mailing list for a few months before jumping into 
CFMX is always a good thing.  Don't jump, let others jump... take notes.

This blogging thing isn't a stupid idea.  I make it a regular ritual to go 
read Sean's, Matt L.'s, CFGuru, Spike's, etc, etc (Yo, David Watts, Ray 
Camden...  where's yours?!).  Some of their topics might be a little too 
advanced or into the underpinnings of java or axis, but now and then I do 
pull back some worthwhile information from someone's noggin and... perhaps 
someday when I get around to learning Java, I'll understand what the hell 
they were posting when they were rambling about it.  If you want URLs to 
these sites, feel free to head over to my domain ( http://www.web-rat.com/ 
or http://fullasagoog.com/ ) -- I'm trying my best to keep links for all 
the cfmx related blogs.

I know personally that I want to start writing up a whitepaper for my 
methodology, but I just haven't gotten around to doing such and in the 
process of too much freelance work and starting my own business (or, 
looking for a new job - hint hint).

~Todd

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Stacy Young

I don't think it's "essential" to optimize for mx but there are
opportunities to do so that's for sure.

If it's a bug and the system can't scale under a certain condition then I'd
agree to raise hellon the other hand if it's a specific operation(s) or
environment issue that causes the anomaly then maybe it can be fixed via an
optimization.

Now you certainly won't hear this from MM Sales but truth be told that if
you want to move your production system to a 1.0 release then you *must*
account for the possibility of environment issues no matter how remote.

I wish it were so but it's not always black and white...we each operate in a
unique environment

If it helps any I'm interested in helping you track down the cause...

Cheers,

Stace

-Original Message-
From: Chad Gray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

Todd, great post, but how do we learn to optimize for MX?  Trial and
error?  You can write crappy slow code in any language, but a few hits
as to how to optimize for MX sure would be nice.

I guess we need to find out from Joe what kind of code he has written
for that test he posted.  How complicated is it?  Is it Fusebox?  What
kind of database?  Are there certain pages that seem to be taking
extremely long amounts of time to process?


My personal problem with MX is stability under load.  10+ service
crashes per day on two development servers, but that is another story
and one that a fellow from MM started helping me try to figure out, but
I have not heard from him in a week.


-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

"The content/app was written for CF4.5..."

Again, it might be time to start thinking about streamlining for MX.
I'm 
*glad* you tested your application, at least I hope these specs below
are 
not coming from your production server.  However, this shouldn't be your

source of frustration.  This should be groundwork for you to build a
case 
and present to your boss, "Hey Boss, we've got some work to do, check
this 
out..."

MX is new (should be considered 1.0 for all intent and purposes of a
total 
rewrite of an existing application).  MX is the future (sorry to say it,

but ... I think the rest of the world is moving forward with or without 
you).  A proper sweep through the "Content/app written for CF4.5" should
be 
done to identify the bottle necks, move some of the logic to .cfc's, 
etc.  Have you written one application geared towards CFMX yet?  Have
you 
seen the speed?  I think that once you've written _1_ application (heck,

develop more than one, we encourage it!) geared towards CFMX, you'll see

what the rest of us are seeing and I think you'll be pleased with the 
results (as the rest of us are).

Please don't take this email personally.  This isn't hammering YOU
(except, 
you need to calm down some and get back to reality instead of swearing
and 
pointing fingers about it all).  I think the biggest problem I've seen
so 
far is the "branding" of ColdFusion 5.  They went from CF4.5.2 to CF5
. 
and didn't realize that they can safely bring their 4.5 apps into CF5
and 
get such a huge speed burst without rewriting any of their crappy
coding.

CFMX is a different animal, as their has been several discussions that 
proper care, education and planning will be needed when approaching 
CFMX.  Granted, some of us out here are still learning it all... some of
us 
out here have had the advantage of being a beta tester and are pretty
much 
up to speed, but ... even I'm finding *NEW* things inside CFMX that I 
haven't found or played with yet.

~Todd

At 11:17 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Todd,
> This was my  original post. All of this testing was for the
same 
> content.
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on
750Mhz
>DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
>600Mhz Single P3 Processor
>
> The content/app was written for CF4.5 and we didnt write any
CF5.0
> optimized code.
>Joe



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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Stacy Young

I agree with Todd...

On the same note we'd also have to take into account the possibility of a
bug...and there's as much of a chance that there's poorly written portion of
code that was masked by previous versions of the app server that are now
exposed for one reason or another...

Bottom line is its hard to tell unless you can break the application down
and test portions of it until a bottleneck is found that causes the CPU
spike.

Are you logging pages that take over X amount of time to execute? Perhaps
start by setting that in order to find the "heavy hitters" in regards to
requests that take the most resources.

Stace


-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

"The content/app was written for CF4.5..."

Again, it might be time to start thinking about streamlining for MX.  I'm 
*glad* you tested your application, at least I hope these specs below are 
not coming from your production server.  However, this shouldn't be your 
source of frustration.  This should be groundwork for you to build a case 
and present to your boss, "Hey Boss, we've got some work to do, check this 
out..."

MX is new (should be considered 1.0 for all intent and purposes of a total 
rewrite of an existing application).  MX is the future (sorry to say it, 
but ... I think the rest of the world is moving forward with or without 
you).  A proper sweep through the "Content/app written for CF4.5" should be 
done to identify the bottle necks, move some of the logic to .cfc's, 
etc.  Have you written one application geared towards CFMX yet?  Have you 
seen the speed?  I think that once you've written _1_ application (heck, 
develop more than one, we encourage it!) geared towards CFMX, you'll see 
what the rest of us are seeing and I think you'll be pleased with the 
results (as the rest of us are).

Please don't take this email personally.  This isn't hammering YOU (except, 
you need to calm down some and get back to reality instead of swearing and 
pointing fingers about it all).  I think the biggest problem I've seen so 
far is the "branding" of ColdFusion 5.  They went from CF4.5.2 to CF5 ... 
and didn't realize that they can safely bring their 4.5 apps into CF5 and 
get such a huge speed burst without rewriting any of their crappy coding.

CFMX is a different animal, as their has been several discussions that 
proper care, education and planning will be needed when approaching 
CFMX.  Granted, some of us out here are still learning it all... some of us 
out here have had the advantage of being a beta tester and are pretty much 
up to speed, but ... even I'm finding *NEW* things inside CFMX that I 
haven't found or played with yet.

~Todd

At 11:17 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Todd,
> This was my  original post. All of this testing was for the same 
> content.
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on
750Mhz
>DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
>600Mhz Single P3 Processor
>
> The content/app was written for CF4.5 and we didnt write any CF5.0
> optimized code.
>Joe


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Chad Gray

Todd, great post, but how do we learn to optimize for MX?  Trial and
error?  You can write crappy slow code in any language, but a few hits
as to how to optimize for MX sure would be nice.

I guess we need to find out from Joe what kind of code he has written
for that test he posted.  How complicated is it?  Is it Fusebox?  What
kind of database?  Are there certain pages that seem to be taking
extremely long amounts of time to process?


My personal problem with MX is stability under load.  10+ service
crashes per day on two development servers, but that is another story
and one that a fellow from MM started helping me try to figure out, but
I have not heard from him in a week.


-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

"The content/app was written for CF4.5..."

Again, it might be time to start thinking about streamlining for MX.
I'm 
*glad* you tested your application, at least I hope these specs below
are 
not coming from your production server.  However, this shouldn't be your

source of frustration.  This should be groundwork for you to build a
case 
and present to your boss, "Hey Boss, we've got some work to do, check
this 
out..."

MX is new (should be considered 1.0 for all intent and purposes of a
total 
rewrite of an existing application).  MX is the future (sorry to say it,

but ... I think the rest of the world is moving forward with or without 
you).  A proper sweep through the "Content/app written for CF4.5" should
be 
done to identify the bottle necks, move some of the logic to .cfc's, 
etc.  Have you written one application geared towards CFMX yet?  Have
you 
seen the speed?  I think that once you've written _1_ application (heck,

develop more than one, we encourage it!) geared towards CFMX, you'll see

what the rest of us are seeing and I think you'll be pleased with the 
results (as the rest of us are).

Please don't take this email personally.  This isn't hammering YOU
(except, 
you need to calm down some and get back to reality instead of swearing
and 
pointing fingers about it all).  I think the biggest problem I've seen
so 
far is the "branding" of ColdFusion 5.  They went from CF4.5.2 to CF5
.. 
and didn't realize that they can safely bring their 4.5 apps into CF5
and 
get such a huge speed burst without rewriting any of their crappy
coding.

CFMX is a different animal, as their has been several discussions that 
proper care, education and planning will be needed when approaching 
CFMX.  Granted, some of us out here are still learning it all... some of
us 
out here have had the advantage of being a beta tester and are pretty
much 
up to speed, but ... even I'm finding *NEW* things inside CFMX that I 
haven't found or played with yet.

~Todd

At 11:17 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Todd,
> This was my  original post. All of this testing was for the
same 
> content.
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on
750Mhz
>DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
>600Mhz Single P3 Processor
>
> The content/app was written for CF4.5 and we didnt write any
CF5.0
> optimized code.
>Joe


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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Todd

"The content/app was written for CF4.5..."

Again, it might be time to start thinking about streamlining for MX.  I'm 
*glad* you tested your application, at least I hope these specs below are 
not coming from your production server.  However, this shouldn't be your 
source of frustration.  This should be groundwork for you to build a case 
and present to your boss, "Hey Boss, we've got some work to do, check this 
out..."

MX is new (should be considered 1.0 for all intent and purposes of a total 
rewrite of an existing application).  MX is the future (sorry to say it, 
but ... I think the rest of the world is moving forward with or without 
you).  A proper sweep through the "Content/app written for CF4.5" should be 
done to identify the bottle necks, move some of the logic to .cfc's, 
etc.  Have you written one application geared towards CFMX yet?  Have you 
seen the speed?  I think that once you've written _1_ application (heck, 
develop more than one, we encourage it!) geared towards CFMX, you'll see 
what the rest of us are seeing and I think you'll be pleased with the 
results (as the rest of us are).

Please don't take this email personally.  This isn't hammering YOU (except, 
you need to calm down some and get back to reality instead of swearing and 
pointing fingers about it all).  I think the biggest problem I've seen so 
far is the "branding" of ColdFusion 5.  They went from CF4.5.2 to CF5 ... 
and didn't realize that they can safely bring their 4.5 apps into CF5 and 
get such a huge speed burst without rewriting any of their crappy coding.

CFMX is a different animal, as their has been several discussions that 
proper care, education and planning will be needed when approaching 
CFMX.  Granted, some of us out here are still learning it all... some of us 
out here have had the advantage of being a beta tester and are pretty much 
up to speed, but ... even I'm finding *NEW* things inside CFMX that I 
haven't found or played with yet.

~Todd

At 11:17 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Todd,
> This was my  original post. All of this testing was for the same 
> content.
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on 750Mhz
>DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
>600Mhz Single P3 Processor
>
> The content/app was written for CF4.5 and we didnt write any CF5.0
> optimized code.
>Joe

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Joe Eugene

Todd,
This was my  original post. All of this testing was for the same content.
   Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on 750Mhz
DUAL P3 Processor
   Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
600Mhz Single P3 Processor

The content/app was written for CF4.5 and we didnt write any CF5.0
optimized code.
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe you're not using the fusebox methodology by any chance are you?

Personally I'd love to see Joe submit this code for the app so we can break
it apart for him and show him why it's not scaling well.  I think it's time
for those people that have CFMX running take a stand and say, "Gee, well..
I've been running it for over 2 months and ... whew... does it fly."  Every
situation is unique I realize, but this is not rocket science here and no
one will ever admit that the fault just might lie in their code.  It's very
easy to stand up and start swearing and place the blame and it's always
time consuming to get to the root of the problem and swearing and placing
the blame isn't going to get you there any faster...

Has anyone on the list thought about creating a peer review mailing
list?  I realize that not everyone can sit and stare at code (we all have
our own stuff to do), I myself would be curious about being reviewed by my
peer to see if I'm on the right track.

~Todd

At 09:53 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Is the app large? Are you able to break the test down to just portions at a
>time? Long shot but perhaps there's a particular operation taking place
that
>causes the memory spike.
>
>Stace
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:55 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>Alright guys.. i have tried almost what everybody generally knows
>to CFMX perfomance..
>COM, Trusted Cache, Caching template size, Compile takes time etc...
>
>Is there anything else that has NOT been brought up? (MM Docs suck)
>This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it cant
>scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX
>Sorry on my language.. but this is really frustrating!
>Joe
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:41 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>No we are not using any COM objects.
>
>Joe
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>Joe Eugene wrote:
> > None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> > 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> > 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> > 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> > 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
> >
> > NONE of these have done any good so far.
>
>That's weird.
>
>Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.
>
>If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.
>
>Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
>quite a bit).
>
>Jesse

Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
Moderator @ FlashCFM.com - http://www.flashCFM.com/
Back-end Moderator @ Ultrashock.com - http://www.ultrashock.com/


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Sean A Corfield

On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 11:55 , Joe Eugene wrote:
> This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it 
> cant
> scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX

I'm sorry you're so frustrated but CFMX definitely scales better than CF5.
  I don't think you're really talking about scalability here tho' - 
scalability is about how the system performs as the number of users 
increases and about how it performs as the number of resources (CPUs etc) 
are increased. Scalability has nothing to do with CPU usage.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Todd

Joe you're not using the fusebox methodology by any chance are you?

Personally I'd love to see Joe submit this code for the app so we can break 
it apart for him and show him why it's not scaling well.  I think it's time 
for those people that have CFMX running take a stand and say, "Gee, well.. 
I've been running it for over 2 months and ... whew... does it fly."  Every 
situation is unique I realize, but this is not rocket science here and no 
one will ever admit that the fault just might lie in their code.  It's very 
easy to stand up and start swearing and place the blame and it's always 
time consuming to get to the root of the problem and swearing and placing 
the blame isn't going to get you there any faster...

Has anyone on the list thought about creating a peer review mailing 
list?  I realize that not everyone can sit and stare at code (we all have 
our own stuff to do), I myself would be curious about being reviewed by my 
peer to see if I'm on the right track.

~Todd

At 09:53 AM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Is the app large? Are you able to break the test down to just portions at a
>time? Long shot but perhaps there's a particular operation taking place that
>causes the memory spike.
>
>Stace
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:55 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>Alright guys.. i have tried almost what everybody generally knows
>to CFMX perfomance..
>COM, Trusted Cache, Caching template size, Compile takes time etc...
>
>Is there anything else that has NOT been brought up? (MM Docs suck)
>This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it cant
>scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX
>Sorry on my language.. but this is really frustrating!
>Joe
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:41 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>No we are not using any COM objects.
>
>Joe
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?
>
>
>Joe Eugene wrote:
> > None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> > 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> > 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> > 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> > 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
> >
> > NONE of these have done any good so far.
>
>That's weird.
>
>Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.
>
>If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.
>
>Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
>quite a bit).
>
>Jesse

Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
Moderator @ FlashCFM.com - http://www.flashCFM.com/
Back-end Moderator @ Ultrashock.com - http://www.ultrashock.com/

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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-27 Thread Stacy Young

Is the app large? Are you able to break the test down to just portions at a
time? Long shot but perhaps there's a particular operation taking place that
causes the memory spike.

Stace

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:55 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

Alright guys.. i have tried almost what everybody generally knows
to CFMX perfomance..
COM, Trusted Cache, Caching template size, Compile takes time etc...

Is there anything else that has NOT been brought up? (MM Docs suck)
This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it cant
scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX
Sorry on my language.. but this is really frustrating!
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:41 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


No we are not using any COM objects.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe Eugene wrote:
> None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
>
> NONE of these have done any good so far.

That's weird.

Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.

If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.

Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
quite a bit).

Jesse





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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Joe Eugene

Alright guys.. i have tried almost what everybody generally knows
to CFMX perfomance..
COM, Trusted Cache, Caching template size, Compile takes time etc...

Is there anything else that has NOT been brought up? (MM Docs suck)
This is really pityfull... CFMX! might do some EXTRA stuff.. but if it cant
scale...atleast close to CF5.0... Why buy DAMN CFMX
Sorry on my language.. but this is really frustrating!
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:41 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


No we are not using any COM objects.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe Eugene wrote:
> None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
>
> NONE of these have done any good so far.

That's weird.

Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.

If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.

Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
quite a bit).

Jesse




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RE: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Joe Eugene

No we are not using any COM objects.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: Jesse Houwing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:38 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


Joe Eugene wrote:
> None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
>
> NONE of these have done any good so far.

That's weird.

Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.

If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.

Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects
quite a bit).

Jesse



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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Jesse Houwing

Joe Eugene wrote:
> None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
> 1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
> 2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
> 3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
> 4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.
> 
> NONE of these have done any good so far.

That's weird.

Are you using COM objects? Those have had a severe slowdown in MX.

If you are using COM, try replacing them with java or cfc's if possible.

Otherwise generate stub's for them (that should speedup COM objects 
quite a bit).

Jesse


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Joe Eugene

None of the below have IMPROVED Performance.
1. Trusted Cache (Enabled)
2. Increased Template Cache Size (decrease Cache pops)
3. Decreased Consecutive Request to "5"
4. Restarted CF APP Service serveral times after setting changes.

NONE of these have done any good so far.

Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Jesse Houwing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Joe Eugene wrote:
> > Trusted Cache was NOT turned on either of the servers (CFMX or CF 5.0)
>
> Try a run with trusted cache, this should make MX much faster and more
> responsive.
>
> Have you also tried lowering the number of consecutive requests? This
> may prove helpful too. MX needs less than 5 with better result (see the
> mx performance test).
>
> Jesse
>
>
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Jesse Houwing

Joe Eugene wrote:
> Trusted Cache was NOT turned on either of the servers (CFMX or CF 5.0)

Try a run with trusted cache, this should make MX much faster and more 
responsive.

Have you also tried lowering the number of consecutive requests? This 
may prove helpful too. MX needs less than 5 with better result (see the 
mx performance test).

Jesse


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Joe Eugene

Trusted Cache was NOT turned on either of the servers (CFMX or CF 5.0)

Joe
- Original Message -
From: "Jesse Houwing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Joe Eugene wrote:
> > The results were for TESTS THAT WERE RAN 15-18 HOURS AT A TIME.. So
> > u know the pages have already been compiled and loaded.
>
> With or without trusted cache?
>
> Jesse
>
>
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Jesse Houwing

Joe Eugene wrote:
> The results were for TESTS THAT WERE RAN 15-18 HOURS AT A TIME.. So
> u know the pages have already been compiled and loaded.

With or without trusted cache?

Jesse


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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Jesse Houwing

Brook Davies wrote:
> Yikes. Is this on the first past or after the pages are compiled? I will 
> ask again, does any one have a script to pre compile all pages within a 
> directory? This would be a nice option to have in the administrator or at 
> least a executable provided by MM.

This came up about two days back. put the followong stuff in a batch 
file and run that:

@setlocal
set NEO_INSTALL=c:\cfusionMX
set PATH=%NEO_INSTALL%\runtime\bin;%PATH%
java -classpath %NEO_INSTALL%\lib\cfusion.jar coldfusion.tools.Compiler
-webroot %NEO_INSTALL%\wwwroot %*
@endlocal


Jesse

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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Joe Eugene

The results were for TESTS THAT WERE RAN 15-18 HOURS AT A TIME.. So
u know the pages have already been compiled and loaded.

Joe
- Original Message -
From: "Brook Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?


> Yikes. Is this on the first past or after the pages are compiled? I will
> ask again, does any one have a script to pre compile all pages within a
> directory? This would be a nice option to have in the administrator or at
> least a executable provided by MM.
>
>
>
>
> At 03:46 PM 26/07/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >Have seen some problems reported with CFMX. These are our
> > testing results..
> >
> >Window 2000 boxes for same CONTENT..
> >Testing done with "MICROSOFT WEB APPLICATION STRESS TOOL"
> > JRun.exe is whats taking all the CPU on CFMX box
> >
> >Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on
> > 750Mhz DUAL P3 Processor
> >Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on
> > 600Mhz Single P3 Processor
> >
> >Does anybody know why is this is happening? this makes it
> > pretty scary to got to CFMX!
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: CFMX Taking all CPU Resources?

2002-07-26 Thread Brook Davies

Yikes. Is this on the first past or after the pages are compiled? I will 
ask again, does any one have a script to pre compile all pages within a 
directory? This would be a nice option to have in the administrator or at 
least a executable provided by MM.




At 03:46 PM 26/07/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>Have seen some problems reported with CFMX. These are our 
> testing results..
>
>Window 2000 boxes for same CONTENT..
>Testing done with "MICROSOFT WEB APPLICATION STRESS TOOL"
> JRun.exe is whats taking all the CPU on CFMX box
>
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CFMX = average 85% CPU on 
> 750Mhz DUAL P3 Processor
>Simulated 50 concurrent users on CF5.0 = average 12% CPU on 
> 600Mhz Single P3 Processor
>
>Does anybody know why is this is happening? this makes it 
> pretty scary to got to CFMX!
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
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