Re: [hlds] NO to in game advertising

[G. Hutchinson]

This pinion thing first visited the list a month 
or two back and I wrote a response to the list 
voicing my two cents. However I did this from my 
phone and it got bounced back for because of the 
previous posts not being cropped down. In short 
it essentially said "Shame on Valve for even 
entertaining something like pinion" pertaining to any in game advertising.


Valve is selling hats, drop items, etc etc etc... 
The game is still generating money. To play the 
game we see advertising when we log in to steam. 
I don't want to see ads when playing games  for 
Viagra, Uncle Bucks Beer, and Lysol. Everyone 
knows Uncle Buck is in the Klan. If Valve wants 
to pursue money in advertising, then replace the 
cereal boxes in L4D with Honeycomb and Fruit Loop 
boxes. Make the soda cans in the games that are 
lying around Pepsi cans and profit that way. 
You're welcome for the idea... (% my way).


MAKE MOVIES...

If other community owners want to show ads on 
their MOTD, have at it. Whether it is through 
pinion, or by bypassing pinion and seeking ads 
through other means and cutting out the "middle 
man", ie; pinon. Live and let live.


However, my fear is about the day Valve "forces" 
the servers I run to show ads or do anything 
through the in game browser I am unaware of for 
that matter, of such nature. They are ran on my 
hardware, at my expense, running essentially an 
"open source" game server file(s). Or at least 
that's how it started out. So if this changes, I 
would expect to see a full disclosure on the 
matter, and expect to have to click something 
saying I approve of the conditions before 
downloading the new server files to my server 
prior to implementation. Warranting today's 
society, a class action suit undoubtedly would 
pop up and surely Valve is clever enough to think 
of such matters, thus dropping such a concept of pinion rather quickly.


Now through my own absurdity I hope it makes 
Valve see it's own... If any of this pinion crap is true.


I am reasonable... I would expect 50,000% profit 
for my share of monies generated. That is fifty 
thousand percent, not 50 percent. I am reasonable 
after all...  Should the day come that I 
entertained a partnership with Valve as an 
advertising agency. This would cover any future 
potential and probably legal expenses expected to 
incur. And that's what would occur... My hardware 
would them become a venue of advertising the game 
more so than I already do, not to mention the 
involvement of a third party(s) and their 
products. I would also expect a seat on the 
"board" to approve and review any such ads 
conveyed though my medium. And the typical 20% 
from any advertisers I obtain and bring to the table that are interested.


Should Valve "force" me to advertise through the 
current concept of the "MOTD Browser" in game for 
any of the game servers I host, I will probably 
not host them any longer. In fact, I am sure I 
would no longer host them in protest. The same if 
Valve will not show my servers in the game 
browser or include me in matchmaking pools simply 
because I chose not to promote advertising 
unknown products through such medium. That is not 
a way to treat the folks that assisted in making 
your games a success for you. WE THE PEOPLE ran 
the majority of the servers promoting your games at our own cost.


Game console, Steam, PC computing... At what 
point does the "want to take over the world" 
settle back down to reason? Is ValveOS next (®) ?


Make Half Life 3... Left4Dead 3 (bigger maps and 
6/6 or 8/8 for versus please), or even make a 
TF3... Make money that way Valve... You look like 
beggars and extortionist when you team up with 
such things as an advertising plugin if that is 
what you have done. Have some dignity.


Now mind you, whoever designed and thought of 
this pinion gig, more power too you... 
Brilliant... I wished I had thought of it. But 
Valve having any official involvement with it... 
Just doesn't sit right with me or anyone else I have discussed it with.


Now if you think my post is ridiculous, imagine 
how YOU look Valve entertaining ANY involvement with such.


NO TO FORCED IN GAME ADVERTISING if it is being entertained...

But that's just my two cents... ___
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[hlds] Better Idle Managment

[Harsh Baid]

This is a request for Fletcher and Eric (and any other valve employ), i was
wondering if its possible for you guys to update the idle management system
in TF2. Personally i currently am not satisfied with the current system so
i use a plugin by name of AFK Manager and i believe many popular server
owners use that as well to keep idlers off! Now the plugin works fine (in
fact it works GREAT), however as a server owner i like to use as few
sourcemod plugins as possible to get the job done  just because there is
less to update and keep track of (just a personal pet peeve for me). Anyway
currently i believe there exist 2 cvars that control idling:

// Maximum time a player is allowed to be idle (in minutes), made this
and sv_timeout equal same time?
mp_idlemaxtime 15

// Deals with idle players 1=send to spectator 2=kick
mp_idledealmethod 2

(Source: TF2 Official Wiki)

This is just for me but i think it applies to many people. Some people who
trade and such or are just afk for a few minutes are sent to spectators if
the given Cvar is set to 1. Is it possible to make another cvar that states
when players are spectator and are idling again for idlemaxtime, kicks
them? That way players who are just temporarily not in the game can just
come back to it by joining the team and players who are truly idling are
kicked. This way i have one less plugin to worry about.


Any consideration on this would be much appreciated! Also feedback for
other Cvars that possible could be added or maybe existing ones that could
be changed would be appreciated!

P.S: People of HLDS if you are either going to recommend me to another
sourcemod plugin that does this, i am not interested. Just telling you in
advance so it does not add clutter to the discussion.
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Re: [hlds] SkepticalGaming uses Fake Clients

[1nsane]

Get some demos, include the other proof you have. Send it to valve.

They delisted servers previously when presented with proof.
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[hlds] SkepticalGaming uses Fake Clients

[Half Life]

Is using Fake Clients justified? 
SkepticalGaming has been using idles to gain quickplay score and 
thus...players. Not just any idles. Idles using idle scripts. We have seen the 
players who joined the server at the same time and we have a full list of IP 
and Steam ID. All the "players" that were used to pouplate only had one game 
and were not premium accounts. We also have many screen shots of such fake 
clients. 




We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[T Marler]

Please stop talking

Cameron Munroe  wrote:

 

Lets see, that wasn't an argument at all. Thus to prove you wrong I
shall state "Crapware Wardon you are wrong" thus this is a perfect and
logical argument proving you absolutely wrong. "Aha! Take that you
spamming scoundrel." 

Also I really don't think you understand the fact
that many community servers are run by communities, which by the way
receive no funds from Valve. They are run by people who get to deal with
that annoying 9 year old screaming in the mic, to patch the servers when
Valve breaks everything, and yet you seem to want to also say you are
suppose to do this all with out getting a dime to cover hosting costs.
It isn't like you easily make a profit with pinion, and I for one can
say that in the past year of using pinion have never had a month when I
was in the green. Thus you do understand all you are doing is killing
community servers so only Valve will be left in the matter. You may
claim what about Donations, well for all those servers who kick those
kids out that don't donate or allow abusive rights, those players come
to me where there is actual admins instead of ones that paid for the
position. In any case crapware, save your self sometime and just turn
off HTMLMOTD in the advance menu. 

Sigh, when will people think about
the person on the other side of the fence... guess never in this case.


On 03/30/2013 09:55 PM, Crapware Wardon wrote: 

> In response to...
>

> Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)
> 
> 1) You're wrong
> 2) You're
wrong
> 3) Your assumption is not a logical conclusion.
> 
> Please stop
spamming the message thread with misinformation. If you can't afford to
host a server, don't host a server. Letting others pay for a server then
claiming ownership is not something one should be commended for (it's
actually a character flaw).
> 
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Cameron Munroe]

 

Lets see, that wasn't an argument at all. Thus to prove you wrong I
shall state "Crapware Wardon you are wrong" thus this is a perfect and
logical argument proving you absolutely wrong. "Aha! Take that you
spamming scoundrel." 

Also I really don't think you understand the fact
that many community servers are run by communities, which by the way
receive no funds from Valve. They are run by people who get to deal with
that annoying 9 year old screaming in the mic, to patch the servers when
Valve breaks everything, and yet you seem to want to also say you are
suppose to do this all with out getting a dime to cover hosting costs.
It isn't like you easily make a profit with pinion, and I for one can
say that in the past year of using pinion have never had a month when I
was in the green. Thus you do understand all you are doing is killing
community servers so only Valve will be left in the matter. You may
claim what about Donations, well for all those servers who kick those
kids out that don't donate or allow abusive rights, those players come
to me where there is actual admins instead of ones that paid for the
position. In any case crapware, save your self sometime and just turn
off HTMLMOTD in the advance menu. 

Sigh, when will people think about
the person on the other side of the fence... guess never in this case.


On 03/30/2013 09:55 PM, Crapware Wardon wrote: 

> In response to...
>

> Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)
> 
> 1) You're wrong
> 2) You're
wrong
> 3) Your assumption is not a logical conclusion.
> 
> Please stop
spamming the message thread with misinformation. If you can't afford to
host a server, don't host a server. Letting others pay for a server then
claiming ownership is not something one should be commended for (it's
actually a character flaw).
> 
>
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your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds [1]




Links:
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[T Marler]

Can we move on?

Crapware Wardon  wrote:

In response to... Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com) 1) You're wrong2) You're 
wrong3) Your assumption is not a logical conclusion. Please stop spamming the 
message thread with misinformation. If you can't afford to host a server, don't 
host a server. Letting others pay for a server then claiming ownership is not 
something one should be commended for (it's actually a character flaw). 
  

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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

In response to... Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com) 1) You're wrong2) You're 
wrong3) Your assumption is not a logical conclusion. Please stop spamming the 
message thread with misinformation. If you can't afford to host a server, don't 
host a server. Letting others pay for a server then claiming ownership is not 
something one should be commended for (it's actually a character flaw). 
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Doctor McKay]

>From the forum posts that have been linked, these things have been made
clear:

1. Valve has put some Pinion-run servers into the official matchmaking pool
2. Valve has talked with Pinion in order to achieve step 1

Therefore, one can logically conclude that Valve has partnered with Pinion
in order to provide servers to some areas. It's not difficult to figure out.

If you want to debate this further, please go to the official Steam forums (
http://forums.steampowered.com) where you might find your target audience.



Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com


On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Crapware Wardon <
crapware.war...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> in response to...
> Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)
>
>
>
> LMAO, do you even read the content of the link you post as your evidence.
> It clearly states "few select Pinion servers are running as official
> servers". That is not the same as an official statement saying All Pinion
> servers are official Valve servers. Furthermore reading the rest of the
> post it clearly states that " the experience should be the same as the
> Official servers" <-- (=not the same). Also, this isn't an official
> statement from Valve, this is a request by a Valve employee asking if
> players/community members would prefer to avoid playing on these pinion
> servers.
>
> Anyone with any common sense can plainly see that you are misinforming
> about the true facts. You may want to read what you are providing as
> support for your argument before presenting it.
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

in response to...Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)   LMAO, do you even read 
the content of the link you post as your evidence. It clearly states "few 
select Pinion servers are running as official servers". That is not the same as 
an official statement saying All Pinion servers are official Valve servers. 
Furthermore reading the rest of the post it clearly states that " the 
experience should be the same as the Official servers" <-- (=not the same). 
Also, this isn't an official statement from Valve, this is a request by a Valve 
employee asking if players/community members would prefer to avoid playing on 
these pinion servers. Anyone with any common sense can plainly see that you are 
misinforming about the true facts. You may want to read what you are providing 
as support for your argument before presenting it.  
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Netshroud]

And that's where you need CSRF protection. It's not like it's anything new.

On 31/03/2013, at 3:19 PM, Doctor McKay  wrote:

> This isn't necessarily true. A malicious server could open a webpage in the 
> client's Steam overlay browser that's hosted on their own website and uses 
> JavaScript to POST something to steamcommunity.com, like a Steam group join 
> request.
> 
> 
> 
> Doctor McKay
> http://www.doctormckay.com
> mc...@doctormckay.com
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Netshroud  wrote:
> If Steam Community would use GET and POST appropriately, then your concern 
> would be a non-issue. A GET request shouldn't make any changes.
> 
> On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Could lead to even worse abuse.
>> 
>> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's 
>> thing that rely on it staying that way.
>> 
>> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do 
>> automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam 
>> community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using 
>> exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups 
>> you are an admin of or changing your settings.
>> 
>> Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things 
>> and valve fixed it.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe  
>> wrote:
>> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
>> 
>>  
>> Here is what the text I received over chat:
>> 
>>  
>> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher Baker 
>> (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it in a 
>> discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
>> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it here 
>> too.
>>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
>> <@asherkin> :|
>> <@asherkin> why?
>>  because pinion
>>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
>> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it to 
>> view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using it 
>> for legit reasons though
>>  ya
>> 
>>  
>> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect thus 
>> blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after initial 
>> connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This would first 
>> fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly exit out and 
>> continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the said owner that 
>> is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the required 
>> completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30 seconds. It would 
>> also be nicer because you could use this as a simple way to open radio 
>> programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio be quit out 
>> once you type !bp. It could also have the added functionality of going to a 
>> common tab for similar links so if you already had radio open, and you open 
>> radio again you won't be spammed by two radios playing. 
>> 
>>  
>> Just some thoughts.
>> 
>> 
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> 
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[hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Niko Storni]

This is a reply to that dude saying pinion is crap and communities using it 
should disappear.
Well, i am not allowed to swear but i assure you that what you say is pure crap 
because you probably have no idea what is like to own a big community and being 
a student in the same time. I give about 50'000 different players (probably 
more as i resetted the records few weeks ago) the possibility to play and enjoy 
the game for FREE! Do you get it? Free! What i only ask is for them to watch 15 
seconds of adverts because neither Valve or the players pay me the tousand of 
dollars i spend in it. Hence if you are so unhappy about the communities 
providing free servers and fun, feel free to press f10 (quit) or find another 
(probably empty) server.
I'm done here, i hope not to hear any more bs from you.

Nikooo777, leader of a css community

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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1.   Suggestion and query regarding MOTD (Crapware Wardon)
>   2. Re: Suggestion and query regarding MOTD (Kyle Sanderson)
>   3. Re: Suggestion and query regarding MOTD (Cc2iscooL)
>   4. Re: Suggestion and query regarding MOTD (Doctor McKay)
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 21:49:03 -0500
>From: Crapware Wardon 
>To: "hlds@list.valvesoftware.com" 
>Subject: [hlds]   Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
>Message-ID: 
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>This is to address the responses from the following badmins... Asher Baker 
>(asher...@gmail.com)Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)Russell Smith 
>(ve...@tinylittlerobots.us)1nsane (1nsane...@gmail.com) Providing links from 
>public forums is not the same as providing links from corporate press release 
>web sites.  I can understand how the simple minded might fall for you 
>shenanigans but Valve simply does not represent itself as doing business with 
>Pinion. IMHO they would be foolish to do so.  I have been following this 
>mailing list for some time now and have yet to see any of the above 
>individuals offer anything of value or help to anyone other than themselves or 
>their self serving opinions. It would be a great service to the community if 
>they would remove themselves from this list. Pinion does nothing to support 
>Valve games and as a matter of fact they detract from the entertainment value 
>people strive for when they purchase a game. They are capitalizing and 
>promoted pollution to the gaming community. If no one can post a better 
>solution to this issue, I would then welcome the motd removal altogether.  
>
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
><https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20130330/cdf2f137/attachment-0001.html>
>
>--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:59:43 -0700
>From: Kyle Sanderson 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>   
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
>Message-ID:
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>Does anyone have the update notes to where they fixed cl_disablehtmlmotd?
>It's always been really trivial to bypass, I don't seem to recall it ever
>being fixed.
>
>Thanks,
>Kyle.
>
>
>On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Doctor McKay  wrote:
>
>> Yes. Players have the ability to prevent anything from loading in the MOTD
>> panel besides plain text. Players don't have the ability to block servers
>> from opening the panel in the first place, but neither do players have the
>> ability to get around "fun" commands such as drug, slay, freeze, etc.
>>
>> The way it *should* work is that if a server does bad things that create a
>> bad experience, then clients will disconnect and find another server. The
>> fact that this isn't happening convinces me that it's a very vocal minority
>> that supports the removal or limitation of the MOTD panel.
>>
>> Dr. McKay
>>
>> On Saturday, March 30, 2013, IBIS Customer Service

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Russell Smith]

It seems you don't know what you're talking about.  No one may run an 
official CS:GO server unless explicitly sanctioned to do so by Valve.  
This is why it is called Official and why they're in the Official 
matchmaking pool.  It's not a matter of adding Official to the server 
name or making the claim that you are such.


Pinion servers do not run the same as Valve servers as they are (or were 
last time i played which has been a while) running SourceMod to run the 
Pinion plugin and serve ads to players.  This doesn't change the fact 
that they're in the Official matchmaking pool, and thus official servers.


On 3/30/2013 9:24 PM, Crapware Wardon wrote:


Anyone can run a Valve server, simply calling it official does not 
make it so. Read the content of the link(s) you provided, "they 
(pinion servers) do not run the same as Valve provided servers".


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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Doctor McKay]

I'm sorry, are you missing the green name and the Valve logo on those forum
posts? That means it's an official Valve employee speaking.



Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com


On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Crapware Wardon <
crapware.war...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In response to...
> Cc2iscooL (cc2isc...@gmail.com)
>
> Nope, those are the exact same links the other kids provided. I reiterate,
> Public Forums are not official sources of information. Anyone can run a
> Valve server, simply calling it official does not make it so. Read the
> content of the link(s) you provided, "they (pinion servers) do not run the
> same as Valve provided servers".  That pretty much says it all. I
> appreciate your response and your addition to the confusion though. It's
> about time someone compiled a list of the people that are contributing to
> the misinformation and attempting to destroy what others have created. Your
> name has been added to the list.
>
> I find it humorous(ironic) that you mention "financially connected", when
> after all the supporters of pinion servers are being financially connected
> by running other peoples hard work. Don't you?
>
> Its pretty obvious that the community doesn't want to play on pinion
> servers, just read the community posts from the links you provided. This is
> an issue that needs to be dealt with. Seems like removing motd
> functionality is the best solution.
>
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

In response to...Cc2iscooL (cc2isc...@gmail.com) Nope, those are the exact same 
links the other kids provided. I reiterate, Public Forums are not official 
sources of information. Anyone can run a Valve server, simply calling it 
official does not make it so. Read the content of the link(s) you provided, 
"they (pinion servers) do not run the same as Valve provided servers".  That 
pretty much says it all. I appreciate your response and your addition to the 
confusion though. It's about time someone compiled a list of the people that 
are contributing to the misinformation and attempting to destroy what others 
have created. Your name has been added to the list. I find it humorous(ironic) 
that you mention "financially connected", when after all the supporters of 
pinion servers are being financially connected by running other peoples hard 
work. Don't you? Its pretty obvious that the community doesn't want to play on 
pinion servers, just read the community posts from the links you provided. This 
is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Seems like removing motd functionality 
is the best solution.   ___
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Doctor McKay]

This isn't necessarily true. A malicious server could open a webpage in the
client's Steam overlay browser that's hosted on their own website and uses
JavaScript to POST something to steamcommunity.com, like a Steam group join
request.



Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Netshroud  wrote:

> If Steam Community would use GET and POST appropriately, then your concern
> would be a non-issue. A GET request shouldn't make any changes.
>
> On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Could lead to even worse abuse.
>
> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's
> thing that rely on it staying that way.
>
> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do
> automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam
> community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using
> exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups
> you are an admin of or changing your settings.
>
> Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things
> and valve fixed it.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe  > wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
>>
>>
>> Here is what the text I received over chat:
>>
>>
>> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher
>> Baker (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it
>> in a discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
>> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it
>> here too.
>>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
>> <@asherkin> :|
>> <@asherkin> why?
>>  because pinion
>>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
>> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it
>> to view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using
>> it for legit reasons though
>>  ya
>>
>>
>> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect
>> thus blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after
>> initial connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This
>> would first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly
>> exit out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the
>> said owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the
>> required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
>> seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple way
>> to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio
>> be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added functionality
>> of going to a common tab for similar links so if you already had radio
>> open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by two radios playing.
>>
>>
>> Just some thoughts.
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Cc2iscooL]

Here's an official Valve posting. Whether you like it or not, they're
partnered in a sense. They provide "official" servers in exchange for the
ad revenue.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32478884&postcount=11

And more..

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33167569&postcount=4

And some more...

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33205018&postcount=22

So whether it's "officially" mentioned anywhere or not (you seem to think
corporate press releases are the only thing that can validate this, which
is silly, as it's fairly obvious), they're definitely providing "official"
servers for games like L4D2. I don't believe they're financially connected
which is why you don't see any specifics about it, basically they provide
official servers for Valve and they get to run ads on them even though
they're "official" (and apparently from what I hear they run like garbage,
but I'll be honest I've never played on one to know.)

Granted Pinion's website is pretty basic and really doesn't have any good
information, mainly cryptic info about what the plugin does, I really
wouldn't expect to see anything on there.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Crapware Wardon <
crapware.war...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> This is to address the responses from the following badmins...
>
> Asher Baker (asher...@gmail.com)
> Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)
> Russell Smith (ve...@tinylittlerobots.us)
> 1nsane (1nsane...@gmail.com)
>
> Providing links from public forums is not the same as providing links from
> corporate press release web sites.  I can understand how the simple minded
> might fall for you shenanigans but Valve simply does not represent itself
> as doing business with Pinion. IMHO they would be foolish to do so.
>
> I have been following this mailing list for some time now and have yet to
> see any of the above individuals offer anything of value or help to anyone
> other than themselves or their self serving opinions. It would be a great
> service to the community if they would remove themselves from this list.
>
> Pinion does nothing to support Valve games and as a matter of fact they
> detract from the entertainment value people strive for when they purchase a
> game. They are capitalizing and promoted pollution to the gaming community.
> If no one can post a better solution to this issue, I would then welcome
> the motd removal altogether.
>
>
>
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> please visit:
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>
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Kyle Sanderson]

Does anyone have the update notes to where they fixed cl_disablehtmlmotd?
It's always been really trivial to bypass, I don't seem to recall it ever
being fixed.

Thanks,
Kyle.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Doctor McKay  wrote:

> Yes. Players have the ability to prevent anything from loading in the MOTD
> panel besides plain text. Players don't have the ability to block servers
> from opening the panel in the first place, but neither do players have the
> ability to get around "fun" commands such as drug, slay, freeze, etc.
>
> The way it *should* work is that if a server does bad things that create a
> bad experience, then clients will disconnect and find another server. The
> fact that this isn't happening convinces me that it's a very vocal minority
> that supports the removal or limitation of the MOTD panel.
>
> Dr. McKay
>
> On Saturday, March 30, 2013, IBIS Customer Service wrote:
>
>> I thought players already had cl_disablehtmlmotd hence the existance of:
>> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1603281
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
>> HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
>> works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
>> need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.
>>
>> I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
>> needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
>> idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:
>>
>> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
>> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
>> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
>> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
>> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
>> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
>> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
>> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
>> advertisement.
>>
>>
>> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened
>> an office in the same state as valve.
>>
>> I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
>> there's a need.
>>
>> Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
>> For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
>> javascript/flash to run on them.
>>
>> This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by valve.
>> Well just an idea.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:
>>
>> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
>> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
>> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
>> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
>> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
>> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
>> twisted this out of all proportion.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
>> >
>> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
>> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
>> Valve
>> > isn't liking it:
>> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting
>> > etc)
>> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
>> start of
>> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of
>> 1
>> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
>> Same
>> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for
>> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
>> > game-changing imo.
>> > - loads of players complaining about it.
>> >
>> >
>> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the
>> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And
>> as I
>> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
>> default
>> > when using Quickplay servers might be som
>>
>>
>
>  --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
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[hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

This is to address the responses from the following badmins... Asher Baker 
(asher...@gmail.com)Doctor McKay (mc...@doctormckay.com)Russell Smith 
(ve...@tinylittlerobots.us)1nsane (1nsane...@gmail.com) Providing links from 
public forums is not the same as providing links from corporate press release 
web sites.  I can understand how the simple minded might fall for you 
shenanigans but Valve simply does not represent itself as doing business with 
Pinion. IMHO they would be foolish to do so.  I have been following this 
mailing list for some time now and have yet to see any of the above individuals 
offer anything of value or help to anyone other than themselves or their self 
serving opinions. It would be a great service to the community if they would 
remove themselves from this list. Pinion does nothing to support Valve games 
and as a matter of fact they detract from the entertainment value people strive 
for when they purchase a game. They are capitalizing and promoted pollution to 
the gaming community. If no one can post a better solution to this issue, I 
would then welcome the motd removal altogether. 
  ___
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[hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

If you want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with hijackware and 
your running a windows machine... 1) Open your hosts file (generally: 
c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts ) with a good ol' text editor. 2) Add the 
following to the end of your hosts file...# Pinion Server Adware
127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg 3) Save the file to your desktop.
4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select the 
file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the 
'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the 
existing one. Enjoy hijackware free gameing!!   
  ___
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Re: [hlds] (no subject)

[1nsane]

"As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion
then why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why,
because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started
the lie to legitimize themselves."

Oh so clearly Pinion must have hacked valve then to do:
1) Host official CS:GO servers alongside valve
2) Get special status on the official steam forums:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33997052&postcount=4
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34167637&postcount=7

Valve must be a really incompetent company not to notice these things for
months... right?


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Crapware Wardon <
crapware.war...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the
> motd.txt contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via
> steamcmd... the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I
> would also go as far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0
> for those servers.
>
> As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion
> then why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why,
> because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started
> the lie to legitimize themselves.
>
>Ok, So all the pro-pinion hijackware guys claim valve is down with
> their program. The research indicates that this is an outright lie. No ad
> time has been purchased by Valve. I am sure there are a few Valve employees
> that are receiving kickbacks for their support of this blatantly
> unscrupulous activity. It may even shed a little light on the fact that
> good ol' Gabe did some house cleaning recently. Anyways.. down to
> business...
> If you want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with
> hijackware and your running a windows machine...
> 1) Open your hosts file (generally: c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
> ) with a good ol' text editor.
> 2) Add the following to the end of your hosts file...
> # Pinion Server Adware
> 127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg
> 3) Save the file to your desktop.
> 4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select
> the file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
> 5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the
> 'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the
> existing one.
> Enjoy hijackware free gaming!!
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Russell Smith]

I believe this opinion comes from the fact that Pinion is running 
Official Valve sanctioned CS:GO servers.  With the way CS:GO is split 
into official/community servers that means that Pinion is getting the 
lions share of the player base funneled to their servers by the CS:GO 
matchmaking.


On 3/30/2013 7:20 PM, Crapware Wardon wrote:


As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion 
then why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know 
why, because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds 
started the lie to legitimize themselves.


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Re: [hlds] (no subject)

[Doctor McKay]

>
ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the
motd.txt contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via
steamcmd... the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I
would also go as far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0
for those servers.

That's... really dumb. Next logical step would be to remove the ability for
servers to be hosted privately entirely and just have Valve host all
servers.

>
As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion then
why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why,
because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started
the lie to legitimize themselves.

I suppose this is a lie too?
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32478884&postcount=11



Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Crapware Wardon <
crapware.war...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the
> motd.txt contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via
> steamcmd... the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I
> would also go as far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0
> for those servers.
>
> As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion
> then why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why,
> because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started
> the lie to legitimize themselves.
>
>Ok, So all the pro-pinion hijackware guys claim valve is down with
> their program. The research indicates that this is an outright lie. No ad
> time has been purchased by Valve. I am sure there are a few Valve employees
> that are receiving kickbacks for their support of this blatantly
> unscrupulous activity. It may even shed a little light on the fact that
> good ol' Gabe did some house cleaning recently. Anyways.. down to
> business...
> If you want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with
> hijackware and your running a windows machine...
> 1) Open your hosts file (generally: c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
> ) with a good ol' text editor.
> 2) Add the following to the end of your hosts file...
> # Pinion Server Adware
> 127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg
> 3) Save the file to your desktop.
> 4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select
> the file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
> 5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the
> 'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the
> existing one.
> Enjoy hijackware free gaming!!
>
> ___
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> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] (no subject)

[Asher Baker]

Please keep your crap off of the server admin's mailing list.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Crapware Wardon
 wrote:
> ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the
> motd.txt contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via
> steamcmd... the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I
> would also go as far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0
> for those servers.
>
> As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion then
> why are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why,
> because it's an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started
> the lie to legitimize themselves.
>
>Ok, So all the pro-pinion hijackware guys claim valve is down with their
> program. The research indicates that this is an outright lie. No ad time has
> been purchased by Valve. I am sure there are a few Valve employees that are
> receiving kickbacks for their support of this blatantly unscrupulous
> activity. It may even shed a little light on the fact that good ol' Gabe did
> some house cleaning recently. Anyways.. down to business...
> If you want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with hijackware
> and your running a windows machine...
> 1) Open your hosts file (generally: c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts )
> with a good ol' text editor.
> 2) Add the following to the end of your hosts file...
> # Pinion Server Adware
> 127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
> 127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg
> 3) Save the file to your desktop.
> 4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select
> the file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
> 5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the
> 'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the
> existing one.
> Enjoy hijackware free gaming!!
>
> ___
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> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>

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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Crapware Wardon]

ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the motd.txt 
contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via steamcmd... 
the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I would also go as 
far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0 for those servers.
 
As for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion then why 
are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why, because it's 
an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started the lie to 
legitimize themselves.
 
   Ok, So all the pro-pinion hijackware guys claim valve is down with their 
program. The research indicates that this is an outright lie. No ad time has 
been purchased by Valve. I am sure there are a few Valve employees that are 
receiving kickbacks for their support of this blatantly unscrupulous activity. 
It may even shed a little light on the fact that good ol' Gabe did some house 
cleaning recently. Anyways.. down to business...
If you want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with hijackware and 
your running a windows machine...
1) Open your hosts file (generally: c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts ) 
with a good ol' text editor.
2) Add the following to the end of your hosts file...
# Pinion Server Adware
127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg
3) Save the file to your desktop.
4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select the 
file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the 
'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the 
existing one.
Enjoy hijackware free gaming!!___
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[hlds] (no subject)

[Crapware Wardon]

ok, the best solution would be to leave the motd option, but, if the motd.txt 
contains anything other than the default motd.txt that ships via steamcmd... 
the server simply does not get listed in the server browser. I would also go as 
far as to say that the vac secured flag also be set to 0 for those servers. As 
for the Valve+Pinion relationship... If Valve is in bed with pinion then why 
are they not listed on the pinion list of customers?! I know why, because it's 
an outright lie. The a-holes collecting pinion funds started the lie to 
legitimize themselves.Ok, So all the pro-pinion hijackware guys claim valve 
is down with their program. The research indicates that this is an outright 
lie. No ad time has been purchased by Valve. I am sure there are a few Valve 
employees that are receiving kickbacks for their support of this blatantly 
unscrupulous activity. It may even shed a little light on the fact that good 
ol' Gabe did some house cleaning recently. Anyways.. down to business...If you 
want to defeat these dirtbags force-feeding your cpu with hijackware and your 
running a windows machine...1) Open your hosts file (generally: 
c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts ) with a good ol' text editor.2) Add the 
following to the end of your hosts file...# Pinion Server Adware
127.0.0.1  pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  bin.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  cdn.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  crm.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  delivery.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  docs.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  kermit.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  log.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  mail.pinion.gg
127.0.0.1  motd.pinion.gg3) Save the file to your desktop.
4) If your text editor added .txt to the file name remove the .txt (select the 
file on your desktop, hit F2 and remove the .txt characters).
5) Copy the host file from your desktop into the 
'C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc' folder and let the new one overwrite the 
existing one.Enjoy hijackware free gaming!! 
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Doctor McKay]

Yes. Players have the ability to prevent anything from loading in the MOTD
panel besides plain text. Players don't have the ability to block servers
from opening the panel in the first place, but neither do players have the
ability to get around "fun" commands such as drug, slay, freeze, etc.

The way it *should* work is that if a server does bad things that create a
bad experience, then clients will disconnect and find another server. The
fact that this isn't happening convinces me that it's a very vocal minority
that supports the removal or limitation of the MOTD panel.

Dr. McKay

On Saturday, March 30, 2013, IBIS Customer Service wrote:

> I thought players already had cl_disablehtmlmotd hence the existance of:
> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1603281
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
> HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
> works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
> need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.
>
> I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
> needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
> idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:
>
> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
> advertisement.
>
>
> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened an
> office in the same state as valve.
>
> I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
> there's a need.
>
> Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
> For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
> javascript/flash to run on them.
>
> This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by valve.
> Well just an idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:
>
> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
> twisted this out of all proportion.
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
> >
> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that Valve
> > isn't liking it:
> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting
> > etc)
> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
> start of
> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of 1
> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown. Same
> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for
> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
> > game-changing imo.
> > - loads of players complaining about it.
> >
> >
> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the
> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And
> as I
> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
> default
> > when using Quickplay servers might be som
>
>

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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[1nsane]

What does that have to do with what I said?

I suggested disabling javascript unless whitelisted, not disabling HTML.

Two completely different things.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:00 PM, IBIS Customer Service <
ibis.serv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought players already had cl_disablehtmlmotd hence the existance of:
> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1603281
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
>> HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
>> works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
>> need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.
>>
>> I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
>> needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
>> idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:
>>
>>> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
>>> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
>>> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
>>> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
>>> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
>>> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
>>> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
>>> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
>>> advertisement.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened
 an office in the same state as valve.

 I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
 there's a need.

 Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
 For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
 javascript/flash to run on them.

 This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by
 valve. Well just an idea.





 On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker wrote:

> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
> twisted this out of all proportion.
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
> >
> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
> Valve
> > isn't liking it:
> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after
> connecting
> > etc)
> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
> start of
> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time
> of 1
> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
> Same
> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way
> for
> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
> > game-changing imo.
> > - loads of players complaining about it.
> >
> >
> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on
> the
> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some.
> And as I
> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
> default
> > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
> >
> > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
> >
> > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would
> not want
> > to lose those.
> >
> > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
> > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters
> below,
> > leaving only the message you reply to.
> >
> > 
> > From: ics 
> > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing
> list
> > 
> > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
> >
> > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
> >
> > -ics
> >
> > Paul kirjoitti:
> >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
> >> showing Drunken_F00l (

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Paul]

Sebastian Iskra: Use cl_disablehtmlmotd 1 then. Solved.


On 31 March 2013 00:05, Sebastian Iskra  wrote:

> I hope they get rid of MOTD so people can't crash my game with pinion ad's
> anymore. Good riddance
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Netshroud  wrote:
>
>> If Steam Community would use GET and POST appropriately, then your
>> concern would be a non-issue. A GET request shouldn't make any changes.
>>
>> On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Could lead to even worse abuse.
>>
>> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's
>> thing that rely on it staying that way.
>>
>> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do
>> automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam
>> community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using
>> exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups
>> you are an admin of or changing your settings.
>>
>> Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things
>> and valve fixed it.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe <
>> cmun...@cameronmunroe.com> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is what the text I received over chat:
>>>
>>>
>>> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher
>>> Baker (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it
>>> in a discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
>>> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it
>>> here too.
>>>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>>>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
>>> <@asherkin> :|
>>> <@asherkin> why?
>>>  because pinion
>>>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
>>> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it
>>> to view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>>>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using
>>> it for legit reasons though
>>>  ya
>>>
>>>
>>> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect
>>> thus blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after
>>> initial connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This
>>> would first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly
>>> exit out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the
>>> said owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the
>>> required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
>>> seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple way
>>> to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio
>>> be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added functionality
>>> of going to a common tab for similar links so if you already had radio
>>> open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by two radios playing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Cameron Munroe]

 

Thus why you don't understand anything about us Server Operators.
Sigh. 

On 03/30/2013 05:05 PM, Sebastian Iskra wrote: 

> I hope they
get rid of MOTD so people can't crash my game with pinion ad's anymore.
Good riddance 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Netshroud
 wrote:
> 
>> If Steam Community would use GET and
POST appropriately, then your concern would be a non-issue. A GET
request shouldn't make any changes. 
>> 
>> On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM,
1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com [2]> wrote: 
>> 
>>> Could lead to even
worse abuse. 
>>> 
>>> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been
like this forever, there's thing that rely on it staying that way. 
>>>

>>> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to
do automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a
steam community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To
using exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave
groups you are an admin of or changing your settings. 
>>> 
>>> Ages ago
when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things and
valve fixed it. 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron
Munroe  wrote:
>>> 
 I thought I might
just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me. 
 
 Here is
what the text I received over chat: 
 
 This info was taken from
a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher Baker (Asherkin) and
Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it in a discussion
then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
 And just to make
sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it here too.

 so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel

 or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary
times
 <@asherkin> :|
 <@asherkin> why?
 
because pinion
  or more like server ops abusing
pinion
 <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever,
like using it to view stats or to listen to streaming radio

 it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using
it for legit reasons though
  ya 
 
 In any
case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect thus
blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after
initial connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This
would first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly
exit out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the
said owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of
the required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple
way to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer
will radio be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added
functionality of going to a common tab for similar links so if you
already had radio open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by
two radios playing. 
 
 Just some thoughts. 

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[1]
>>> ___
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please visit:
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>> 
>>
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[1]

---
Cameron Munroe

Owner and Operator of (G-S.N) &
Munroenet.com

Computer Tech

http://www.munroenet.com
[3]
http://www.gaming-servers.net [4]
https://www.town-assembly.com




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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Sebastian Iskra]

I hope they get rid of MOTD so people can't crash my game with pinion ad's
anymore. Good riddance


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Netshroud  wrote:

> If Steam Community would use GET and POST appropriately, then your concern
> would be a non-issue. A GET request shouldn't make any changes.
>
> On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Could lead to even worse abuse.
>
> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's
> thing that rely on it staying that way.
>
> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do
> automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam
> community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using
> exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups
> you are an admin of or changing your settings.
>
> Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things
> and valve fixed it.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe  > wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
>>
>>
>> Here is what the text I received over chat:
>>
>>
>> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher
>> Baker (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it
>> in a discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
>> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it
>> here too.
>>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
>> <@asherkin> :|
>> <@asherkin> why?
>>  because pinion
>>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
>> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it
>> to view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using
>> it for legit reasons though
>>  ya
>>
>>
>> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect
>> thus blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after
>> initial connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This
>> would first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly
>> exit out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the
>> said owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the
>> required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
>> seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple way
>> to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio
>> be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added functionality
>> of going to a common tab for similar links so if you already had radio
>> open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by two radios playing.
>>
>>
>> Just some thoughts.
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Netshroud]

If Steam Community would use GET and POST appropriately, then your concern 
would be a non-issue. A GET request shouldn't make any changes.

On 31/03/2013, at 8:33 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Could lead to even worse abuse.
> 
> Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's 
> thing that rely on it staying that way.
> 
> Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do 
> automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam 
> community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using 
> exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups you 
> are an admin of or changing your settings.
> 
> Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things and 
> valve fixed it.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe  
> wrote:
> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
> 
>  
> Here is what the text I received over chat:
> 
>  
> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher Baker 
> (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it in a 
> discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it here 
> too.
>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
> <@asherkin> :|
> <@asherkin> why?
>  because pinion
>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it to 
> view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using it 
> for legit reasons though
>  ya
> 
>  
> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect thus 
> blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after initial 
> connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This would first 
> fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly exit out and 
> continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the said owner that is 
> spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the required completions, 
> and not being able to hold the session for 30 seconds. It would also be nicer 
> because you could use this as a simple way to open radio programs and such, 
> and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio be quit out once you type !bp. It 
> could also have the added functionality of going to a common tab for similar 
> links so if you already had radio open, and you open radio again you won't be 
> spammed by two radios playing. 
> 
>  
> Just some thoughts.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Paul]

Indeed, so if Valve were considering doing something to the MOTD then
there's little point in having cl_disablehtmlmotd for the player/client to
use. Well, that's how I see it anyway.


On 30 March 2013 23:00, IBIS Customer Service wrote:

> I thought players already had cl_disablehtmlmotd hence the existance of:
> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1603281
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
>> HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
>> works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
>> need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.
>>
>> I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
>> needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
>> idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:
>>
>>> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
>>> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
>>> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
>>> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
>>> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
>>> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
>>> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
>>> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
>>> advertisement.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened
 an office in the same state as valve.

 I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
 there's a need.

 Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
 For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
 javascript/flash to run on them.

 This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by
 valve. Well just an idea.





 On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker wrote:

> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
> twisted this out of all proportion.
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
> >
> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
> Valve
> > isn't liking it:
> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after
> connecting
> > etc)
> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
> start of
> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time
> of 1
> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
> Same
> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way
> for
> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
> > game-changing imo.
> > - loads of players complaining about it.
> >
> >
> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on
> the
> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some.
> And as I
> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
> default
> > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
> >
> > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
> >
> > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would
> not want
> > to lose those.
> >
> > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
> > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters
> below,
> > leaving only the message you reply to.
> >
> > 
> > From: ics 
> > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing
> list
> > 
> > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
> >
> > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
> >
> > -ics
> >
> > Paul kirjoitti:
> >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
> >> showing Drunken_F00l (emp

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[IBIS Customer Service]

I thought players already had cl_disablehtmlmotd hence the existance of:
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1603281


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
> HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
> works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
> need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.
>
> I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
> needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
> idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:
>
>> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
>> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
>> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
>> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
>> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
>> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
>> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
>> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
>> advertisement.
>>
>>
>> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened
>>> an office in the same state as valve.
>>>
>>> I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
>>> there's a need.
>>>
>>> Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
>>> For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
>>> javascript/flash to run on them.
>>>
>>> This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by
>>> valve. Well just an idea.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:
>>>
 The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
 not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
 thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
 this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
 at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
 that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
 twisted this out of all proportion.

 On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
 wrote:
 >
 > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
 >
 > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
 > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
 Valve
 > isn't liking it:
 > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after
 connecting
 > etc)
 > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
 start of
 > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time
 of 1
 > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
 Same
 > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way
 for
 > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
 > game-changing imo.
 > - loads of players complaining about it.
 >
 >
 > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on
 the
 > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some.
 And as I
 > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
 default
 > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
 >
 > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
 >
 > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would
 not want
 > to lose those.
 >
 > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
 > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters
 below,
 > leaving only the message you reply to.
 >
 > 
 > From: ics 
 > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 > 
 > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
 > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
 >
 > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
 >
 > -ics
 >
 > Paul kirjoitti:
 >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
 >> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a
 >> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information
 >> after all then.
 >>
 >>
 >> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered . >>> >> > wrote:
 >>
 >>Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
 >>ads in CS:GO servers.

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[1nsane]

That be a small price to pay considering the other possibility in losing
HTML MOTD entirely. Having to convert your website to just plain HTML so it
works in the ingame browse would be nothing in comparison. And if you truly
need full access you could convince valve to whitelist your website.

I was just suggesting that as a quick alternative. But it likely won't be
needed based on what Asher wrote earlier today about it being simply an
idea and not a valve's plan to remove the MOTD.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Paul  wrote:

> Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
> community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
> e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
> the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
> must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
> the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
> radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
> the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
> advertisement.
>
>
> On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened
>> an office in the same state as valve.
>>
>> I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
>> there's a need.
>>
>> Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
>> For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
>> javascript/flash to run on them.
>>
>> This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by valve.
>> Well just an idea.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:
>>
>>> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
>>> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
>>> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
>>> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
>>> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
>>> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
>>> twisted this out of all proportion.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
>>> >
>>> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
>>> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
>>> Valve
>>> > isn't liking it:
>>> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after
>>> connecting
>>> > etc)
>>> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
>>> start of
>>> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time
>>> of 1
>>> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
>>> Same
>>> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way
>>> for
>>> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
>>> > game-changing imo.
>>> > - loads of players complaining about it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on
>>> the
>>> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And
>>> as I
>>> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
>>> default
>>> > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
>>> >
>>> > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
>>> >
>>> > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would not
>>> want
>>> > to lose those.
>>> >
>>> > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
>>> > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters
>>> below,
>>> > leaving only the message you reply to.
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> > From: ics 
>>> > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>> > 
>>> > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
>>> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
>>> >
>>> > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
>>> >
>>> > -ics
>>> >
>>> > Paul kirjoitti:
>>> >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
>>> >> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a
>>> >> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information
>>> >> after all then.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered . >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
>>> >>ads in CS:GO servers. If MOTD was taken off, a lot of TF2 mods
>>> >>wouldn't work. Such include: SLAG, Pinion, Donation pages, Rules
>>> >>pages, and anything else that requires MOTD. I don't even know why
>>> >>anyone would think it would be removed.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>>

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Paul]

Although an interesting idea, some community based websites (not Steam
community, I mean actual server community) may use at least JavaScript,
e.g. jQuery for a fancy design, or perhaps even to identify statistics of
the players connecting to the server (I use Google Analytics). If Valve
must do something, then it should be something that won't be a detriment to
the existing ideas out there that utilise the MOTD, such as the in-game
radio plugins. Valve could just simply block plugin access to the MOTD if
the webpage currently loaded in the MOTD is recognised as a Pinion
advertisement.


On 30 March 2013 20:18, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened an
> office in the same state as valve.
>
> I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
> there's a need.
>
> Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
> For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
> javascript/flash to run on them.
>
> This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by valve.
> Well just an idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:
>
>> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
>> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
>> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
>> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
>> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
>> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
>> twisted this out of all proportion.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
>> >
>> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
>> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that
>> Valve
>> > isn't liking it:
>> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting
>> > etc)
>> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
>> start of
>> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of
>> 1
>> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown.
>> Same
>> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for
>> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
>> > game-changing imo.
>> > - loads of players complaining about it.
>> >
>> >
>> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the
>> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And
>> as I
>> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
>> default
>> > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
>> >
>> > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
>> >
>> > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would not
>> want
>> > to lose those.
>> >
>> > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
>> > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters
>> below,
>> > leaving only the message you reply to.
>> >
>> > 
>> > From: ics 
>> > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> > 
>> > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
>> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
>> >
>> > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
>> >
>> > -ics
>> >
>> > Paul kirjoitti:
>> >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
>> >> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a
>> >> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information
>> >> after all then.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered . > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
>> >>ads in CS:GO servers. If MOTD was taken off, a lot of TF2 mods
>> >>wouldn't work. Such include: SLAG, Pinion, Donation pages, Rules
>> >>pages, and anything else that requires MOTD. I don't even know why
>> >>anyone would think it would be removed.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> > please visit:
>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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>
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[1nsane]

Could lead to even worse abuse.

Steam overlay is logged in to steam. It's been like this forever, there's
thing that rely on it staying that way.

Since it is logged into steam it would allow malicious servers to do
automatically on their steam accounts. Starting with putting you in a steam
community group soon as you join a server without your consent. To using
exploits and doing much worse things like say forcing you to leave groups
you are an admin of or changing your settings.

Ages ago when Steam used IE I reported an exploit able to do these things
and valve fixed it.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> **
>
> I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.
>
>
>
> Here is what the text I received over chat:
>
>
>
> This info was taken from a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher
> Baker (Asherkin) and Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it
> in a discussion then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
> And just to make sure it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it here
> too.
>  so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
>  or at least the ability to send it at arbitrary times
> <@asherkin> :|
> <@asherkin> why?
>  because pinion
>  or more like server ops abusing pinion
> <@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed forever, like using it
> to view stats or to listen to streaming radio
>  it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes using it
> for legit reasons though
>  ya
>
>
>
> In any case I think what they will only stop motd after initial connect
> thus blocking any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after
> initial connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This
> would first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly
> exit out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the
> said owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the
> required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
> seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple way
> to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer will radio
> be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added functionality
> of going to a common tab for similar links so if you already had radio
> open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by two radios playing.
>
>
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Cameron Munroe]

 

I thought I might just put my 2 cents in, so please don't shoot me.


Here is what the text I received over chat: 

This info was taken from
a discussion on IRC between SourceMod's Asher Baker (Asherkin) and
Valve's Tony Paloma (Druken_F00l). Asherkin posted it in a discussion
then deleted it, but not before someone quoted it.
And just to make sure
it doesn't get lost, I'm also going to quote it here too.

so i think we're gonna nuke the info panel
 or at least
the ability to send it at arbitrary times
<@asherkin> :|
<@asherkin>
why?
 because pinion
 or more like server
ops abusing pinion
<@asherkin> thus killing things that have existed
forever, like using it to view stats or to listen to streaming
radio
 it sucks that it might break plugins or game modes
using it for legit reasons though
 ya 

In any case I
think what they will only stop motd after initial connect thus blocking
any abuse by server owners. However I would rather, after initial
connect, to have links opened by the steam overlay browser. This would
first fix the issue of Pinion spamming as the player could quickly exit
out and continue playing there game, not to mention this harms the said
owner that is spamming the Ad during normal game play because of the
required completions, and not being able to hold the session for 30
seconds. It would also be nicer because you could use this as a simple
way to open radio programs and such, and in new tabs. Thus no longer
will radio be quit out once you type !bp. It could also have the added
functionality of going to a common tab for similar links so if you
already had radio open, and you open radio again you won't be spammed by
two radios playing. 

Just some thoughts. ___
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visit:
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[1nsane]

Valve and Pinion have always been in contact, and IIRC they even opened an
office in the same state as valve.

I'm sure they could come up with some solution that can't be abused if
there's a need.

Such as better client integration for Pinion to prevent abuse.
For example whitelisitng URLs on the client and only allowing
javascript/flash to run on them.

This way legitimate websites that need these could get approved by valve.
Well just an idea.





On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Asher Baker  wrote:

> The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
> not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
> thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
> this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
> at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
> that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
> twisted this out of all proportion.
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
> >
> > One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
> > game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that Valve
> > isn't liking it:
> > - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting
> > etc)
> > - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at
> start of
> > round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of 1
> > minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown. Same
> > goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for
> > those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
> > game-changing imo.
> > - loads of players complaining about it.
> >
> >
> > As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the
> > connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And
> as I
> > see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per
> default
> > when using Quickplay servers might be something.
> >
> > Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
> >
> > There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would not
> want
> > to lose those.
> >
> > And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
> > subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters below,
> > leaving only the message you reply to.
> >
> > 
> > From: ics 
> > To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> > 
> > Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
> >
> > Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
> >
> > -ics
> >
> > Paul kirjoitti:
> >> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
> >> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a
> >> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information
> >> after all then.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered .  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
> >>ads in CS:GO servers. If MOTD was taken off, a lot of TF2 mods
> >>wouldn't work. Such include: SLAG, Pinion, Donation pages, Rules
> >>pages, and anything else that requires MOTD. I don't even know why
> >>anyone would think it would be removed.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
> >
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Asher Baker]

The except posted was from a very long conversation discussing IDEAS
not PLANS, and was intended specifically in relation to the plugin
thread it was posted in. There was really no reason for it to explode
this much, but I do hope the immediate backlash will avoid any changes
at all - I think the current system is fine and that it's Quickplay
that's flawed not the MOTD. My apologies to DF for how people have
twisted this out of all proportion.

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:
>
> Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.
>
> One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the
> game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that Valve
> isn't liking it:
> - 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting
> etc)
> - With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at start of
> round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of 1
> minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown. Same
> goes for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for
> those classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite
> game-changing imo.
> - loads of players complaining about it.
>
>
> As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the
> connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And as I
> see complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per default
> when using Quickplay servers might be something.
>
> Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough.
>
> There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would not want
> to lose those.
>
> And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the
> subject to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters below,
> leaving only the message you reply to.
>
> 
> From: ics 
> To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> 
> Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
> Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
>
> Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
>
> -ics
>
> Paul kirjoitti:
>> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread
>> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a
>> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information
>> after all then.
>>
>>
>> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered . > > wrote:
>>
>>Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
>>ads in CS:GO servers. If MOTD was taken off, a lot of TF2 mods
>>wouldn't work. Such include: SLAG, Pinion, Donation pages, Rules
>>pages, and anything else that requires MOTD. I don't even know why
>>anyone would think it would be removed.
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>

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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Mart-Jan Reeuwijk]

Asherkin would not put words into DF's mouth, thats for sure.

One can question ofc if its really going to be removed, but with the 
game-changing properties of the pinion plugin, its easy to see that Valve isn't 
liking it:
- 30 seconds added before able to start with the game. (after connecting etc)
- With map restarts (and therefore round re-start) Uber build up at start of 
round is impossible, with 30 seconds missing of the round start time of 1 
minute, they cannot build up the uber charge when the ad gets shown. Same goes 
for Engy to build up his equipment. Essentially killing any way for those 
classes to be ready for a defense and offense. Thats quite game-changing imo.
- loads of players complaining about it. 


As I said in another reply, a way for players to block MOTD based on the 
connected server (using their ID's or IP's?) would alleviate some. And as I see 
complaints bout this in the Quickplay, disable this feature per default when 
using Quickplay servers might be something. 

Think that would kill off the pinions and alike fast enough. 

There is a lot of legit ways of using the MOTD, and I really would not want to 
lose those. 

And for those that use the Digest, PLEASE, when you REPLY, rename the subject 
to the subject you reply to, and remove the 50k characters below, leaving only 
the message you reply to.



>
> From: ics 
>To: ubyu@gmail.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 19:55
>Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77
> 
>Pretty sure it wasn't flawed.
>
>-ics
>
>Paul kirjoitti:
>> The only source was based on a rumor of a chat log on a forum thread 
>> showing Drunken_F00l (employee at Valve) talking to asherkin (a 
>> Sourcemod dev) about it. Perhaps the source was flawed information 
>> after all then.
>>
>>
>> On 30 March 2013 18:34, ElitePowered . > > wrote:
>>
>>     Valve would never remove MOTD. They partnered with Pinion to put
>>     ads in CS:GO servers. If MOTD was taken off, a lot of TF2 mods
>>     wouldn't work. Such include: SLAG, Pinion, Donation pages, Rules
>>     pages, and anything else that requires MOTD. I don't even know why
>>     anyone would think it would be removed.
>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77

[ics]

re.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds




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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bjorn Wielens mailto:uniac...@yahoo.ca>>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
Message-ID:
   
<1364668142.64549.yahoomail...@web161703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

<mailto:1364668142.64549.yahoomail...@web161703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Agreed, I really don't want to see the MOTD disappear.
My serves don't have pinion, but we do have a few plugins that
use/open the MOTD panel with server rules, how to play (for
mods) and other info. We also have a "clean" html MOTD, that
is, no ads or other crapware but just info on our community,
our other servers, and a brief rules summary.

It would suck if the MOTD was canned without any sort of
replacement; once again the folks that are legit get shafted
because of certain unscrupulous people.





 From: "e...@chello.at <mailto:e...@chello.at>"
mailto:e...@chello.at>>
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:03:36 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD


If this is happening my free TF2 lottery gets a lot less
sexier. There is a rare chance on my server that someone wins
TF2 items. It then shows up the item over a specific motd page
after respawn. ?Most of these items are intentional bought
over the Mann Co. store to support the small TF2 team. This
would be really a let-down for me to remove this feature,
since I put much effort into it. I have also a few of these
plugins on Doctor McKay list which would be a shame to see
them break beyond repair.
?
Is there no other way to incorporate Pinion and other Ad?s
into TF2 in which Valve has more control over it? I don?t use
it, but I can understand why others need it.
?
ED-E
?
Von:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
<mailto:von%3ahlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com>
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
<mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com>] Im Auftrag von
Doctor McKay
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. M?rz 2013 21:31
An: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Betreff: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
?
Rumor that Valve is considering removing the MOTD entirely.
?
Because of this, I decided to compile a list of plugins that
would entirely or partially break if this change was made.


?
?
Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com <mailto:mc...@doctormckay.com>
?
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com
<mailto:1nsane...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Where did you hear this "rumor" from?
?
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul mailto:ubyu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't
effect pop-up screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is
true then that would indeed be bad for such plugins, and could
see the community shrink on TF2 as a result.
?
On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are
done by users, but its the server's plugin that pops the
requested webpag

Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77

[Paul]

d repair.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there no other way to incorporate Pinion and other Ad?s into TF2 in
>> which
>> Valve has more control over it? I don?t use it, but I can understand why
>> others need it.
>>
>>
>>
>> ED-E
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Doctor McKay
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 29. M?rz 2013 21:31
>> An: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> Betreff: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
>>
>>
>>
>> Rumor that Valve is considering removing the MOTD entirely.
>> <https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1922141#post1922141>
>>
>>
>>
>> Because of this, I decided to compile a list
>> <
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GFAlNwhtuoNq4XKqSFvPuAA7iZYmcztQiRT85F
>> jTzU/edit?usp=sharing<https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GFAlNwhtuoNq4XKqSFvPuAA7iZYmcztQiRT85FjTzU/edit?usp=sharing>>
>>  of plugins that would entirely or partially break if
>> this change was made.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doctor McKay
>>
>> http://www.doctormckay.com
>>
>> mc...@doctormckay.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Where did you hear this "rumor" from?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul  wrote:
>>
>> Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't effect pop-up
>> screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is true then that would
>> indeed
>> be bad for such plugins, and could see the community shrink on TF2 as a
>> result.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are done by
>> users,
>> but its the server's plugin that pops the requested webpage to the client.
>> I'd hate to see such go, unless some can be worked out with the steam
>> overlay browser, but that would cause a lot of abuse is my guess. (servers
>> loading up a huge site in there without the player aware etc).
>>
>> If it would be in the form of temporary "links" (bookmark) in the bar on
>> top
>> of the overlay browser, that those only get opened when the client clicks
>> on
>> them, that would end any form of abuse.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>>
>> From: Paul 
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 10:15
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Yes I understand what you're saying. That isn't what I mean though. I've
>> heard rumors (yes, on a forum, not exactly a reliable source I know) that
>> there are plans in the works to make a massive change to the MOTD so that
>> it
>> can't be used by server plugins mid-game, and that it will only be usable
>> at
>> the beginning (when you connect), presumably due to rare problems such as
>> what I mentioned occurring on certain servers. I'm guessing the rumors
>> aren't true, but even so I was suggesting that it if the rumors are true
>> that instead of doing that you could fix the problem by disabling the
>> functionality of JavaScript's window.open(...), alert(...) and
>> confirm(...)
>> functions. Disabling those three functions would prevent any webpages that
>> are loaded in the MOTD from either making an additional popup window, or
>> temporarily losing mouse focus in the game to an alert/confirm box.
>> Hopefully I've made myself a little clearer now, I didn't mean Java, I do
>> mean JavaScript.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Paul.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>&

Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 24, Issue 77

[ElitePowered .]

t; Because of this, I decided to compile a list
> <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GFAlNwhtuoNq4XKqSFvPuAA7iZYmcztQiRT85F
> jTzU/edit?usp=sharing>  of plugins that would entirely or partially break
> if
> this change was made.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Doctor McKay
>
> http://www.doctormckay.com
>
> mc...@doctormckay.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Where did you hear this "rumor" from?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul  wrote:
>
> Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't effect pop-up
> screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is true then that would
> indeed
> be bad for such plugins, and could see the community shrink on TF2 as a
> result.
>
>
>
> On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:
>
>
> Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are done by users,
> but its the server's plugin that pops the requested webpage to the client.
> I'd hate to see such go, unless some can be worked out with the steam
> overlay browser, but that would cause a lot of abuse is my guess. (servers
> loading up a huge site in there without the player aware etc).
>
> If it would be in the form of temporary "links" (bookmark) in the bar on
> top
> of the overlay browser, that those only get opened when the client clicks
> on
> them, that would end any form of abuse.
>
>
>
>
>   _
>
>
> From: Paul 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> 
> Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 10:15
>
>
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Yes I understand what you're saying. That isn't what I mean though. I've
> heard rumors (yes, on a forum, not exactly a reliable source I know) that
> there are plans in the works to make a massive change to the MOTD so that
> it
> can't be used by server plugins mid-game, and that it will only be usable
> at
> the beginning (when you connect), presumably due to rare problems such as
> what I mentioned occurring on certain servers. I'm guessing the rumors
> aren't true, but even so I was suggesting that it if the rumors are true
> that instead of doing that you could fix the problem by disabling the
> functionality of JavaScript's window.open(...), alert(...) and confirm(...)
> functions. Disabling those three functions would prevent any webpages that
> are loaded in the MOTD from either making an additional popup window, or
> temporarily losing mouse focus in the game to an alert/confirm box.
> Hopefully I've made myself a little clearer now, I didn't mean Java, I do
> mean JavaScript.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
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> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20130330/9ae382d6/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Bjorn Wielens 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> 
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
> Message-ID:
> <1364668142.64549.yahoomail...@web161703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Agreed, I really don't want to see the MOTD disappear.
> My serves don't have pinion, but we do have a few plugins that use/open
> the MOTD panel with server rules, how to play (for mods) and other info. We
> also have a "clean" html MOTD, that is, no ads or other crapware but just
> info on our community, our other servers, and a brief rules summary.
>
> It wo

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Bjorn Wielens]

Agreed, I really don't want to see the MOTD disappear.
My serves don't have pinion, but we do have a few plugins that use/open the 
MOTD panel with server rules, how to play (for mods) and other info. We also 
have a "clean" html MOTD, that is, no ads or other crapware but just info on 
our community, our other servers, and a brief rules summary.

It would suck if the MOTD was canned without any sort of replacement; once 
again the folks that are legit get shafted because of certain unscrupulous 
people.





 From: "e...@chello.at" 
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' 
 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:03:36 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
 

If this is happening my free TF2 lottery gets a lot less sexier. There is a 
rare chance on my server that someone wins TF2 items. It then shows up the item 
over a specific motd page after respawn.  Most of these items are intentional 
bought over the Mann Co. store to support the small TF2 team. This would be 
really a let-down for me to remove this feature, since I put much effort into 
it. I have also a few of these plugins on Doctor McKay list which would be a 
shame to see them break beyond repair.
 
Is there no other way to incorporate Pinion and other Ad’s into TF2 in which 
Valve has more control over it? I don’t use it, but I can understand why others 
need it.
 
ED-E
 
Von:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Doctor McKay
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013 21:31
An: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Betreff: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
 
Rumor that Valve is considering removing the MOTD entirely.
 
Because of this, I decided to compile a list of plugins that would entirely or 
partially break if this change was made.


 
 
Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com
 
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did you hear this "rumor" from?
 
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul  wrote:
Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't effect pop-up 
screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is true then that would indeed be 
bad for such plugins, and could see the community shrink on TF2 as a result.
 
On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:

Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are done by users, but 
its the server's plugin that pops the requested webpage to the client. I'd hate 
to see such go, unless some can be worked out with the steam overlay browser, 
but that would cause a lot of abuse is my guess. (servers loading up a huge 
site in there without the player aware etc).

If it would be in the form of temporary "links" (bookmark) in the bar on top of 
the overlay browser, that those only get opened when the client clicks on them, 
that would end any form of abuse.
 
>
>
>
>From:Paul 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 10:15
>
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
> 
>Hi guys,
>Yes I understand what you're saying. That isn't what I mean though. I've heard 
>rumors (yes, on a forum, not exactly a reliable source I know) that there are 
>plans in the works to make a massive change to the MOTD so that it can't be 
>used by server plugins mid-game, and that it will only be usable at the 
>beginning (when you connect), presumably due to rare problems such as what I 
>mentioned occurring on certain servers. I'm guessing the rumors aren't true, 
>but even so I was suggesting that it if the rumors are true that instead of 
>doing that you could fix the problem by disabling the functionality of 
>JavaScript's window.open(...), alert(...) and confirm(...) functions. 
>Disabling those three functions would prevent any webpages that are loaded in 
>the MOTD from either making an additional popup window, or temporarily losing 
>mouse focus in the game to an alert/confirm box. Hopefully I've made myself a 
>little clearer now, I didn't mean Java, I do mean
 JavaScript.
> 
>Many thanks,
>Paul.
> 
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

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Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[ED-E]

If this is happening my free TF2 lottery gets a lot less sexier. There is a
rare chance on my server that someone wins TF2 items. It then shows up the
item over a specific motd page after respawn.  Most of these items are
intentional bought over the Mann Co. store to support the small TF2 team.
This would be really a let-down for me to remove this feature, since I put
much effort into it. I have also a few of these plugins on Doctor McKay list
which would be a shame to see them break beyond repair.

 

Is there no other way to incorporate Pinion and other Ad’s into TF2 in which
Valve has more control over it? I don’t use it, but I can understand why
others need it.

 

ED-E

 

Von: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Doctor McKay
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013 21:31
An: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Betreff: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

 

Rumor that Valve is considering removing the MOTD entirely.
 

 

Because of this, I decided to compile a list
  of plugins that would entirely or partially break if
this change was made.




 

 

Doctor McKay

http://www.doctormckay.com

mc...@doctormckay.com

 

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

Where did you hear this "rumor" from?

 

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul  wrote:

Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't effect pop-up
screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is true then that would indeed
be bad for such plugins, and could see the community shrink on TF2 as a
result.

 

On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:


Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are done by users,
but its the server's plugin that pops the requested webpage to the client.
I'd hate to see such go, unless some can be worked out with the steam
overlay browser, but that would cause a lot of abuse is my guess. (servers
loading up a huge site in there without the player aware etc).

If it would be in the form of temporary "links" (bookmark) in the bar on top
of the overlay browser, that those only get opened when the client clicks on
them, that would end any form of abuse.

 


  _  


From: Paul 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 
Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 10:15


Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

 

Hi guys,

Yes I understand what you're saying. That isn't what I mean though. I've
heard rumors (yes, on a forum, not exactly a reliable source I know) that
there are plans in the works to make a massive change to the MOTD so that it
can't be used by server plugins mid-game, and that it will only be usable at
the beginning (when you connect), presumably due to rare problems such as
what I mentioned occurring on certain servers. I'm guessing the rumors
aren't true, but even so I was suggesting that it if the rumors are true
that instead of doing that you could fix the problem by disabling the
functionality of JavaScript's window.open(...), alert(...) and confirm(...)
functions. Disabling those three functions would prevent any webpages that
are loaded in the MOTD from either making an additional popup window, or
temporarily losing mouse focus in the game to an alert/confirm box.
Hopefully I've made myself a little clearer now, I didn't mean Java, I do
mean JavaScript.

 

Many thanks,

Paul.

 

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