[talk-ph] Mapping talk @ANC now
For those still at home or who has access to ANC at office, Future Perfect's topic now is about mapping solutions for PH. FYI :) -- Rem Zamora Photojournalist +63-917-592-74-33 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Get together in Lier/Bijeenkomst in Lier
Op 12 januari 2013 14:53 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be het volgende: Dag Ivo, ** ** ** ** Fijn dan moeten we niet de hele weg alleen doen. Ik zal je wel opladen. ** ** We zullen nog afspreken waar en hoe laat ik je oppik. Het hangt er vanaf of we nog iemand mee wil. Hallo Guy, Ik wil ook mee :-) Ik heb de activiteitenpagina op de wiki aangepast: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Activities En wat meer detail op de overlegpagina: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:WikiProject_Belgium/Activities#2013-02-09:_Meeting_in_Lier Voel je vrij om zelf agendapunten toe te voegen op de wiki. Als er iemand een projector zou kunnen meebrengen, zou dat handig zijn om iets aan een grotere groep tegelijk te tonen. Als we er geen hebben, dan gaan we experimenteren met het 'delen van een desktop' naar andere computers. Groeten, Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mons - 17/01/2013 - conference Jeudis du Libre OpenStreetMap
J'ai ajouté l'événément à l'agenda sur le wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Activities Dommage que tu ne pourras pas venir Pierre! Aux autres à demain, Jo 2013/1/14 [Famille] Pierre WILLOT pie...@willot-martin.be Désolé je viens d'avoir un empêchement professionnel je ne pourrais malheureusement pas être présent Tenez moi au courant comme cela s'est passé Merci Pierre Le 11/01/13 10:10, [Famille] Pierre WILLOT a écrit : Bonjour je viens de bloquer la date et l'heure @ Jo, si je peux avoir une voiture, tu pourrais loger chez moi mais je t'en dirais plus début de semaine, cherche quand même pour loger car si je n'ai pas de véhicule, je suis en moto :-) @+ Pierre Le 11/01/13 08:27, Linusable a écrit : Hello everybody, this is an annoucement of a conference which will be given in french. So, the rest of the message is in french. Greetings, Didier Villers / linusable Bonjour, je vous informe que dans le cadre du cycle de conférence Jeudis du Libre, je ferai un exposé jeudi 17 janvier à l'UMONS (faculté Polytechnique), sur OpenStreetMap. Ce sera un exposé général. L'annonce complète est ici : http://jeudisdulibre.be/2013/01/06/openstreetmap-la-cartographie-libre/ Si l'un ou l'autre d'entre vous a l'occasion d'être présent, qu'il n'hésite pas à me contacter. (cela pourra m'aider pour pas mal de questions techniques pour lesquelles je n'ai pas toutes les capacités requises pour répondre) Cordialement, Linusable / Didier Villers ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] D1 road signal
On Wednesday 16 January 2013 22:04:57 A.Pirard.Papou wrote: Hi, The Mandatory to follow the direction indicated by the arrow description for the down sloping D1 signals here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Belgium is (fortunately) incorrect. It should be Drive around the obstacle on the side indicated by the arrow. fortunately incorrect? :-) The full Dutch official definition of the D1 sign is: D1. Verplichting de door de pijl aangeduide richting te volgen. De plaatsgesteldheid bepaalt de stand van de pijl. Wanneer het verkeersbord dat een niet-gebogen pijl voorstelt, op een hindernis geplaatst is, betekent het dat langs de door de pijl aangeduide richting moet voorbijgereden worden. Translated: D1. Mandatory to follow the direction indicated by the arrow. The location decides the direction the arrow is pointing. If the traffic sign that represents a non-curved arrow is placed on an obstacle, it means that you have to drive around it on the side indicated by the arrow. So, the definition on the page isn't incorrect, but I only translated the first sentence. I just wanted to have a simple definition in the table without every little detail. But if you want you can always add the definition of the traffic sign when it's placed on an obstacle. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] D1 road signal
For a section between C35 and C37 one could use the overtaking key, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking. Is it ok to add this tag to the wiki page ? m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Combining NC Data with ODbL
Am 15.01.2013 18:02, schrieb Alex Barth: On Jan 14, 2013, at 5:30 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 14.01.2013 08:36, schrieb Kate Chapman: 2. I have a spreadsheet of hospital locations licensed CC-BY-NC, I use OSM to geocode these locations. I believe this can't happen because of the incompatibility of the two licenses. 3. I export school locations from OSM and then append capacity of the schools and other information to the exported data. I then release the data CC BY-NC on my organizations website. Also can't happen because of the incompatibility of licenses. With both 2) and 3) if you remain within the bounds of an insubstantial extract (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Substantial_-_Guideline) your usage would be ok, even though as you correctly state both extracts would normally be considered derivative databases and would require release of the underlying data with the ODbL. The insubstantial guidelines are way too strict (less than 100 features(!)). As you say we have had this discussion before. The insubstantial guideline is there to determine what trivial, inconsequential usage of the data is. On the one hand I suspect that if we (though some kind of consultation process) raise the numbers, it is never going to be enough (10'000, 10'000'000?). On the other hand raising the number at one point essentially creates a new (CC0) licence. We have both a ethical fiduciary duty to respect the wishes of the part of the community that wants strong share a like (there are reasons to believe that this is large group) and a contractual one (contributor terms) to follow due process for a licence change. It would not be out of the question to add a specific geo-coding licence or terms to the canon of licences that the OSMF is allowed to distribute the data with, but as you realize that is a major undertaking and up to now nobody has stepped forward and taken ownership of the issue. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Combining NC Data with ODbL
Hi Martin, I appreciate the sentiment, though I think it have unintended consequences. The reason I am asking the questions I'm asking is as part of a greater effort to advocate within humanitarian groups to release their data under licenses compatible to OSM. Often the issue with data after a disaster is that it is locked up and can't be reached in times of emergency. For example there actually was a map of Haiti after the earthquake. The office of the National Mapping Agency had collapsed and where the back-up of the data was not immediately known. One of the reasons for this is they had a long policy of selling that data, but nobody was actually buying it. It is also a slippery slope to make exceptions because then maybe there are other exceptions that groups would like to make. For example I could see some groups not wanting OSM used by the military or maybe large corporations. It is unrealistic though to make these types of distinctions I think. Thanks, -Kate On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/1/15 Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com: Hard to say if it would be substantial, I think that is going to depend on the size of the disaster and what exactly the data is being used. I think with the current guidelines any extraction will be very soon substantial, The OSM community regards the following as being not Substantial ... provided that the extraction is one-off and not repeated over time for the same or a similar project. Especially the part not repeated over time for the same or a similar project will be read that if you extract a second time hospitals or schools the amount would add to the number from the first time you did so. This is very sad, I'm sure almost all contributors to OSM would like to not have these restrictions for certain scopes (like HOT). What if we made a change to our license to have different terms for different fields of users? (Or is this completely unrealistic?). E.g. we could release data for humanitarian work under attribution only (after positive voting by the active contributors) terms? cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Combining NC Data with ODbL
Alex, While I agree with the principal that the restrictions on geocoding are preventing groups from joining the OSM community, I don't think changing the insubstantial clause is the way to fix the issue. The clause is there for just that insubstantial use, to make it high enough to allow geocoding in the way that is desired things would no longer be insubstantial. Having an exception to the license however a big undertaking I think is the correct way to approach things. -Kate On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 15.01.2013 18:02, schrieb Alex Barth: On Jan 14, 2013, at 5:30 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 14.01.2013 08:36, schrieb Kate Chapman: 2. I have a spreadsheet of hospital locations licensed CC-BY-NC, I use OSM to geocode these locations. I believe this can't happen because of the incompatibility of the two licenses. 3. I export school locations from OSM and then append capacity of the schools and other information to the exported data. I then release the data CC BY-NC on my organizations website. Also can't happen because of the incompatibility of licenses. With both 2) and 3) if you remain within the bounds of an insubstantial extract (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Substantial_-_Guideline) your usage would be ok, even though as you correctly state both extracts would normally be considered derivative databases and would require release of the underlying data with the ODbL. The insubstantial guidelines are way too strict (less than 100 features(!)). As you say we have had this discussion before. The insubstantial guideline is there to determine what trivial, inconsequential usage of the data is. On the one hand I suspect that if we (though some kind of consultation process) raise the numbers, it is never going to be enough (10'000, 10'000'000?). On the other hand raising the number at one point essentially creates a new (CC0) licence. We have both a ethical fiduciary duty to respect the wishes of the part of the community that wants strong share a like (there are reasons to believe that this is large group) and a contractual one (contributor terms) to follow due process for a licence change. It would not be out of the question to add a specific geo-coding licence or terms to the canon of licences that the OSMF is allowed to distribute the data with, but as you realize that is a major undertaking and up to now nobody has stepped forward and taken ownership of the issue. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
From: Alex Barth [mailto:a...@mapbox.com] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. I question if the hammer is a notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. The example notice for satisfying 4.3 is Contains information from DATABASE NAME, wich is made available here under the Open Database License (ODbL) I've cc'ed legal-talk@ because if this is even allowable is a legal question. Regardless I'm not in favour. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Regarding The New OSM License
Hello. Would like to ask / discuss with you the new license for OSM if you do not mind. I have a website that I would like to integrate/include OSM map tiles into. What I would like to clarify is if I would be required to share the data which is / has been collected through the website. I would like to build a tile server based on OSM data for serving map tiles for use in a commercial website project that will be accessed by the general public at no charge. The website currently stores and retrieves data from a non OSM sql db containing information regarding various points of interest ( POI ) . Information such as addresses, points of contacts, photos, etc... are stored in the non OSM sql db. I would like to be able to places maps ( static / slippery ) generated by the tile server on various web pages throughout the website and then display a push pin(s), flag(s) or marker(s) in a separate layer above the map to highlight the location of the POI. A few examples of how users would interact with the website. 1. Users would enter an address. Search would be made in non OSM sql db for any corresponding POI. A call would be made to the tile server. Map tile would be displayed associated with that address. If there is a associated POI a flag/marker would be displayed in a layer above the map tile marking its location. 2. Users would add a POI through a web interface for inclusion into the non OSM sql db. 3. Users would supply GPS coordinates to the website. A call would be made to the tile server. A corresponding map tile would be displayed. 4. Users would supply GPS coordinates. Search would be made in sql db for any corresponding POI. Map tile would be displayed associated with that GPS coordinate. If there is a associated POI a flag/marker would be displayed in a layer above the map tile marking its location. What I would like to know is if I would be required to share/supply the non OSM sql db with OSM or anyone that would ask? I look forward to being able to contribute to OSM but I need to be able to control what is shared with OSM. Thanks for your time, Rob___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Regarding The New OSM License
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Rob smartt...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Would like to ask / discuss with you the new license for OSM if you do not mind. I have a website that I would like to integrate/include OSM map tiles into. What I would like to clarify is if I would be required to share the data which is / has been collected through the website. The short answer is, It depends. The intent of the license is that improvements to the data would be shared with OSM. But it is also recognized that there are lasses of data that are inappropriate to include in OSM. Let me offer two examples: Restaurant reviews. It is generally accepted that we don't want subjective reviews of restaurants in OpenStreetMap. If you are collecting reviews we probably don't want them. Restaurant locations. There are many restaurants in OpenStreetMap and if you are collecting or correcting restaurant locations, then we would want them in OpenStreetMap. There are certainly many examples that can be drawn that will fall clearly in either of the above classes. There are probably many examples that would fall in a grey area between those examples. You've been careful to not reveal too much about your application, so I'll have to make some guesses about what's going on. This is obviously not legal advice. And is also without prejudice. For your use case 1) Because you state that you have addresses in your non-osm data, and because OSM has and wants addresses, there may be a requirement for you to share that address data. You might consider searching on OSM addresses if you are prevented from sharing the non-OSM addresses. For 2) it seem like you are geo coding based on OSM. If the data is interesting to us, it should be shared with OSM. For 3) seems like share alike is not triggered. For 4) seems like share alike is not triggered. If you can provide more information, perhaps we can take better guesses? best regards, Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
Where is it? I didn't see any copyright on osm.org.
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Paul Norman wrote:
There is a prominent copyright license link on the openstreetmap.orgpage
outlining the copyright information in detail.
osm.org is a bit of a unique case because all the content on the site is
openstreetmap data and the copyright information is content in its own
right.
** **
*From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'j...@gwhat.org');]
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:30 PM
*To:* legal-talk@openstreetmap.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'legal-talk@openstreetmap.org');
*Subject:* [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
** **
Hi legal types -
** **
Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org with the same
markings we ask others to use?
** **
My impression is that you're supposed to mark a copyright in any use of
the copyrighted material - is that incorrect?
** **
This is the practice Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and MapQuest use for their
maps.
--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical
OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM
/ my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer
t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory
f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
Hi! Maybe you are talking about different versions of the site? I just checked with my phone, and on the mobile version I can't find any copyright information, as the left menu column displayed in the desktop version is hidden on the mobile site. Kind regards, Marty 17 jan 2013 kl. 05:26 skrev Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org: Where is it? I didn't see any copyright on osm.org. On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Paul Norman wrote: There is a prominent copyright license link on the openstreetmap.org page outlining the copyright information in detail. osm.org is a bit of a unique case because all the content on the site is openstreetmap data and the copyright information is content in its own right. From: Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:30 PM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map? Hi legal types - Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org with the same markings we ask others to use? My impression is that you're supposed to mark a copyright in any use of the copyrighted material - is that incorrect? This is the practice Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and MapQuest use for their maps. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 osm: Historical OSM / my OSM user page t: @GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
Paul - Are you talking about the link to Copyright and License under Help in the left-nav or the statement The data is free to downloadhttp://planet.openstreetmap.org/ and use http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OpenStreetMap under its open license http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright, which is also in the left-nav? I would contend that neither of those are a copyright mark. If we require others to put (c) OpenStreetMap contributors on their tiles, I believe we are obligated to do the same in order to demonstrate that we are taking appropriate steps to protect our copyrights. - Jeff On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Martin Holmgren d95ma...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! Maybe you are talking about different versions of the site? I just checked with my phone, and on the mobile version I can't find any copyright information, as the left menu column displayed in the desktop version is hidden on the mobile site. Kind regards, Marty 17 jan 2013 kl. 05:26 skrev Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org: Where is it? I didn't see any copyright on osm.org. On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Paul Norman wrote: There is a prominent copyright license link on the openstreetmap.orgpage outlining the copyright information in detail. osm.org is a bit of a unique case because all the content on the site is openstreetmap data and the copyright information is content in its own right. ** ** *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:30 PM *To:* legal-talk@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map? ** ** Hi legal types - ** ** Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org with the same markings we ask others to use? ** ** My impression is that you're supposed to mark a copyright in any use of the copyrighted material - is that incorrect? ** ** This is the practice Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and MapQuest use for their maps. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Alex Yes, there is at least a handful of contributors have had the link specified in discussion or/and agreement. While it is unlikely that it was put in writing that it should be one click away from the map, it would seem to be rather devious to simply move it without at least consultation. On top of that there is a vocal group that thinks that the attribution and licence presentation as it is now is not prominent enough, moving it further away is undoubtedly going to be opposed. One thing the work leading up to the licence change showed was that how we document and administrate imports and other data sources doesn't scale and leads to a mass of essentially undocumented (for example attribution requirements) and orphaned imports. So yes I believe we will need to change and merge both attribution locations, but simply merging the two lists is not going to address the underlying issues (which IMHO not difficult to get a handle on). Simon Am 15.01.2013 23:15, schrieb Alex Barth: Frederik - On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: the copyright page we're using now might be better suited for that, not least because many third parties who give us their data are promised attribution via that page and it might not be good to put that behind too many clicks. I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New website style sheet
Hi, osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
It's a subliminal stimuli to fill the gaps in the map ;-) Not sure where you're trying to go? I think the design cleanup is overall an improvement (disclaimer: I'm Saman's colleague). I'm not sure how your comment is going to get to a constructive discussion about improving OSM.org's design, which is clearly necessary. And I'm not talking lipstick. On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
For reference, this is the relevan ticket on openstreetmap-website: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/150 On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
Hi Alex, Thanks for the link to this. If we're wanting to submit issues / enter discussion, should we be posting to github or trac? I've opened one ticket today, for example, asking that the history page be broken up more [0]. Looking at github, however, I see that this may be part of the planned better vertical rhythm. Cheers, Joseph [0] https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4745 On 16 January 2013 13:17, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: For reference, this is the relevan ticket on openstreetmap-website: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/150 On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
Hey Joseph - Best is github right there: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/new I've seen your ticket coming in today and alerted also Saman to it, so no need to refile. On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:25 AM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alex, Thanks for the link to this. If we're wanting to submit issues / enter discussion, should we be posting to github or trac? I've opened one ticket today, for example, asking that the history page be broken up more [0]. Looking at github, however, I see that this may be part of the planned better vertical rhythm. Cheers, Joseph [0] https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4745 On 16 January 2013 13:17, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: For reference, this is the relevan ticket on openstreetmap-website: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/150 On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
2013/1/16 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing between text lines. Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement. I think that high resolution screens will become more and more usual, so maybe the alternative would be to have a special treatment for people visiting the site with particularily low resolution screens? Personally I don't see increased line spacing e.g. on diaries (but it looks like increased font size and maybe increased spacing for paragraphs and headlines, which I find more relaxing to read at the default size. I'm on Linux/Firefox 18, 1366x768, no hi-res). Anyway, you can always reduce the text display size in your browser (usually ctrl -) if you mind scrolling. Best compliments to Saman for the good work. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Not sure where you're trying to go? Just to say that making texts bigger works fine for big screens only. Otherwise, search results from GeoNames become invisible for instance. The site is maybe a bit cleaner but with much less content displayed at once. I'm aware that feel and colours will never satisfy everybody (and I'm not against changes) but the style sheet should care more about the different screens resolutions. Now, the vertical scrolling is 2 times longer for the same content. Anyway, you can always reduce the text display size in your browser My browser works usually fine, thank you. It sounds a bit strange to change the text size just for osm.org . Now we have a huge contrast between the font sizes on the map and the html text. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet
2013/1/16 Pieren pier...@gmail.com Just to say that making texts bigger works fine for big screens only. I've quickly looked at screen size gathered by piwik on OSM-FR website during the past 6 months. Here are the results: - 7% with less than 1024 pixel width - 45% between 1024 and 1400 - 28% between 1400 and 1920 - 19% with 1920 or above - 14% less than 1 millions pixels - 53% between 1 and 1.5 millions pixels - 13% between 1.5 and 2 millions pixels - 19% above 2 millions pixels In order not to let too many people frustrated because of their screen size, its good to check the result on 1280x800 screens or have different stylesheets for small and large screens. On my 15 MacBook Pro it's ok and on my dual 30 MacPro it's perfect ;) -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquesthttp://openstreetmap.fr/u/christian-quest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-ht] Haiti.
Hi Shawn, Having mapped Haiti for bit over three years now and living here for nearly two and a half, working with different geo/mapping projects I very much agree that -- and have been thinking a lot about -- figuring out how to highlight the good things that are happening here. There are some initiatives/services that work in this field but I'll leave a commentary of the scene to a separate message as I'd want to get the bigger picture (as I see it) articulated sufficiently well. Coincidentally I just downloaded a few days ago all POIs of OSM Haiti (using XAPI of an OSM mirror). It's only a 17MB (.osm) file which I have made available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9dqzni0tr0o4h8g/Haiti%20POI%20Map%20v0.01.osm if you want to take a look. ... Please note that this is a _live_ .osm file and any adjustments, additions or deletions you do to it would be applied to the live OSM database if you upload it (in JOSM or any other editor). Talking of barber shops in specific: I like the idea ... and might actually be able to get permission to add to OSM at least some chunk of geo-coded barber shop locations around the country. .. Gotta see if that's possible. I'd suggest that we continue this thread on talk-ht@ (unless there are aspects that keep this relevant to talk@). Dunno how to set reply-to in Gmail on single messages, though.. I'll get back to this on my behalf with more thoughts in a few days. Cheers, -Jaakko -- jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +509-37-269154 * http://go.hel.cc/about.me On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: Hi Shawn, There is an active OpenStreetMap community in Haiti. (Some of them read this list). I've cc'd that list if you'd like to get involved there is probably the best place. Last year there was a project in St. Marc that might be of interest: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-06-24_return_to_the_training_in_saint_marc_haiti_mixing_generic_and_specific_teaching_a http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-04-24_coming_to_a_close_in_saint_marc Best, -Kate On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Shawn Dash sdash1...@gmail.com wrote: Dear OpenStreetMap friends of Haiti: A few days ago headlines about Haiti were all about the 3-year earthquake anniversary. Is that really all Haiti is?! I love telling my friends that there are many businesses in Haiti and that the country actually is flourishing.And, again, people just do not believe. I am thinking that it would be really wonderful to create a map of the small businesses in Haiti -- to show and prove that it is not just tents and cholera. Let's begin a conversation about how life goes on in Haiti, how the county is living and breathing, and how Haiti is actually standing on it's own and moving forward. The headlines about Haiti should be the beauty and the life, not the destruction and the aid! I tried to find a map of small businesses in Haiti -- and all I could find was something in Foursquare that's nice, but it is mainly in the richer areas and it is more about night-clubs and drinking and not really the small businesses. I think it would be really interesting to GPS tag as many barbershops in Haiti as possible, since, the barbershop -- in it's own way -- is a sign that life goes on in Haiti, and that there is indeed a local economy. As we both know, there's thousands of barbershops, everywhere, even in containers! I am wondering if, as you are geo-mapping and geo-tagging, if there is anyway to start a project show I can show my friends that Haiti is not just disease and famine -- there is very much a living life, too! What do you think? Thank you! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-ht mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ht Notez! Vous pouvez utiliser Google Translate (http://translate.google.com) pour traduire les messages. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Thanks again everyone for reviewing and weighing in. I'll try to summarize feedback here and identify adjustments and open decisions. I've added all I'm seeing actionable right now to the pull request on OSM.org [1]. I'm not aiming to close down the thread for good here, so please respond if I'm missing anything or if clarifications bring up additional suggestions. My next actions are to work with Saman (copied) on first adjustments based on feedback here. While many suggested improvements, I am hearing general agreement to further pursue this proposal and work on implementing it. ## Clarifications My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. This is intricately linked to the goal of this proposal being to better promote OSM's openness on any OSM based map by: - making it more compelling to click through to OSM - providing a real entry point to understanding and working with OSM on the destination page ## Hammer mark This has probably been the most discussed issue :) There have been multiple voices expressing concern with the suggested hammer-in-teardrop mark. The main ones were: 1. It should have some textual component saying OpenStreetMap or OSM 2. It should be more prominent 3. It is not unique/compelling enough Points 1 and 2 are easy adjustments, 3 is the tough one. I do sense we have agreement on a visual element instead of just a text line but we're not quite excited about the hammer. I'd love to follow up on this topic separately, rehashing how we got to the current mark and suggesting alternatives. ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. ## Legal requirement As the page osm.org/contributors is to be the first one linked from a map it needs to fulfill legal requirements. I suggest we adjust the text on osm.org/contributors to explicitly reference ODbL and link to an updated openstreetmap.org/copyright. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12293006 ## Attributions There are currently attributions to specific data sources on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright (Austria to United Kingdom). These need to be accomodated on `/contributors`. I see this as an opportunity to add an important facet to `/contributors`. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333486 ## Refine message There were suggestions to focus the message more on encouraging potential mappers. I think that's a good idea. One way of doing this could be to replace Learn more about OSM with Get started editing. That would be ideal, there is obviously the problem of not really having a spot to link to to 'just get started mapping'. Another one is to just tweak the language we're using. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333756 ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 [1] Related pull request on osm-website: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
From: Alex Barth [mailto:a...@mapbox.com] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. I question if the hammer is a notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. The example notice for satisfying 4.3 is Contains information from DATABASE NAME, wich is made available here under the Open Database License (ODbL) I've cc'ed legal-talk@ because if this is even allowable is a legal question. Regardless I'm not in favour. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16/01/13 19:08, Alex Barth wrote: ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. I think the problem is that you are already locking in the terminology by using contributors in the URL of the landing page. In fact that's my main problem with the terminology - the proposed content is not at all what I would expect to see on a page with that URL as the URL suggests some sort of list of contributors. ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 The scrolling itself is not the problem so much as the lack of visual cues that you can scroll - as I said on IRC it was only after you started talking about a link that I couldn't see that I realised there was anything below the fold as the giant picture had made it look like a fixed page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? e.g. if FourSquare puts the OSM mark on their maps, they aren't showing that OSM has contributed to the 4sq map, they are attributing the source of their tiles to OSM. The fact that it links to, or mentions, OSM contributors isn't what this statement or mark is about. No one would call (c) Google.com a contributor mark. The fact that we elect to require reference to Contributors in our credits or to discuss Contributors on our copyright is something we choose to do because, well, because OSM rocks. My elaborate 2 cents... On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 16/01/13 19:08, Alex Barth wrote: ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. I think the problem is that you are already locking in the terminology by using contributors in the URL of the landing page. In fact that's my main problem with the terminology - the proposed content is not at all what I would expect to see on a page with that URL as the URL suggests some sort of list of contributors. ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/**openstreetmap/openstreetmap-** website/pull/180#issuecomment-**12333532https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 The scrolling itself is not the problem so much as the lack of visual cues that you can scroll - as I said on IRC it was only after you started talking about a link that I couldn't see that I realised there was anything below the fold as the giant picture had made it look like a fixed page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? Maybe, maybe not. More importantly - the fact that there's a discussion what this mark tries to communicate means that it fails to do it properly in the first place. At first glance I thought it was just sort of a banner to promote OSM but if it is to replace the legal attribution then it's not really doing that job. I support Kai's idea about separating the two functions. I like the Wikipedia example. It would be really cool to have a widely known edit button/symbol/mark sitting in the corner of embedded maps to show that the map is a living thing that can be corrected, enriched etc. I also agree with Tom - naming stuff *is* very important and is definitely not a side issue. Right now contributors mark suggests at least two different things - list of contributors or some kind of award for being a contributor and neither of them is true... This stuff should really be dead simple and intuitive, if you have to think about it as a user, explain, discuss then forget it, it won't work in the wild. Of course it's always harder to communicate more with less but that's the main challenge I see here... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Apologies for being rhetorical and passive in my prior post. Maybe is incorrect. The statement (c) OpenStreetMap contributors _is definitely_ a required credit. See: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. The page then goes on to describe how to do this credit. This web page defines our implementation of ODBL para 4.3.(a). Up to now, I'm not talking only about the existing copyright markings and not about the teardrop / hammer mark But, Alex has stated that he *does* want to replace that statement with a mark (sounds cool to me), so he's suggesting we amend the copyright and license terms, which might be doable under para 4.3 of the ODBL referenced by Paul (http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/). In addition, Alex is suggesting that the mark link not the existing copyright statement, but to a different contributors page, which seems (to this caveman lawyer) less likely to adhere to para 4.3. The function of credit/attribution/notification that ODBL-derived data was a source for a Produced Work is a requirement of the ODBL. So, we have a requirement for at least 1 mark that references at least source copyright, etc. It seems like the options are: a) Add a better sense essence of contributors modifiability to the existing copyright notice. b) Add another mark (a) seems more feasible, as I don't think OSM-related Produced Works want to add multiple marks to a single map (or would we), but who knows? We definitely need Legal WG input here. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? Maybe, maybe not. More importantly - the fact that there's a discussion what this mark tries to communicate means that it fails to do it properly in the first place. At first glance I thought it was just sort of a banner to promote OSM but if it is to replace the legal attribution then it's not really doing that job. I support Kai's idea about separating the two functions. I like the Wikipedia example. It would be really cool to have a widely known edit button/symbol/mark sitting in the corner of embedded maps to show that the map is a living thing that can be corrected, enriched etc. I also agree with Tom - naming stuff *is* very important and is definitely not a side issue. Right now contributors mark suggests at least two different things - list of contributors or some kind of award for being a contributor and neither of them is true... This stuff should really be dead simple and intuitive, if you have to think about it as a user, explain, discuss then forget it, it won't work in the wild. Of course it's always harder to communicate more with less but that's the main challenge I see here... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Why is it clear that the hammer couldn't be a replacement for the OSM copyright? Has the Legal WG stated that a symbol that linked to our copyright license statements would not meet the requirements of the ODBL? Right now, I think we're all speculating. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: Why is it clear that the hammer couldn't be a replacement for the OSM copyright? Has the Legal WG stated that a symbol that linked to our copyright license statements would not meet the requirements of the ODBL? No idea about the legal viability of the hammer. I'm saying this more from gauging the overall excitement around the hammer. Saman and I are planning on sharing more the thinking behind the specific hammer mark and ideally come up with something better. Also: many have noted that there should be at least a textual reference to OpenStreetMap in the contributor mark, that's at least a given adjustment in my mind. Right now, I think we're all speculating. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquesthttp://openstreetmap.fr/u/christian-quest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? That could work well. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi Christian, On 16.01.2013 23:33, Christian Quest wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. The current legal requirement is not about a text specifically; as Paul has written, the current legal requirement is: notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. It is not for us to upgrade these requirements (it would require Open Data Commons to issue a version 1.1 of their license with changed wording). What we could do is agree that a certain logo/icon/wording is reasonably calculated to make any person aware... and so on. OSMF does have a little bit of leeway there; if they were to say this counts then it would be hard for anyone to construct a case against it. However it is important to keep in mind that contributors have only authorized OSMF to redistribute their data under ODbL (via the contributor agreement), not under ODbL with any fancy interpretations that OSMF would like to add. If OSMF were to stray too far from the path, contributors could claim that OSMF violated the contributor agreement and OSMF's right to distribute the data was therefore void. I wouldn't want to go there! I think the reasonably calculated is is a relatively high hurdle. Especially when an icon is newly introduced, it can hardly be said to be reasonably calculated to make any person aware...! Personally, I think this is practically impossible without including at least the word OpenStreetMap spelled out in letters (if not ODbL 1.0 as well). Even our, relatively well-known, current logo would be a difficult sell as reasonably calculated because it isn't *so* well known. This does, however, border on the discuss in legal-talk where you're likely to find more expert answers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16/01/13 22:33, Christian Quest wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? To me the copyright symbol, ©, is understood worldwide to have a specific meaning, replacing it with a new made-up symbol loses the meaning completely. I do like the idea of a small, clickable icon to identify OSM, but I don't see how that replaces the well understood © symbol and attribution statement. I would be happy to reduce 'Openstreetmap' to 'OSM' for brevity. MapQuest have a small icon that they request people embed into any site using their Open map tiles (based on OSM data). I believe they follow its use to help them build stats or some such. It looks fine, but I add © Openstreetmap contributors too, as per the licence we spent so long struggling to implement. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Why not keep the © Openstreetmap contributors bit and add a Report an issue / Add to the map type button or text? This would then link to a very simple page as proposed (but themed to better match OSMs brand) which also explains how to add a bug/notice using [1] and how to get more involved with editing using Potlatch2 / iD. Rob [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#OpenStreetBugs.2Fnotes_integration ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Difference between redaction and revert
Dear everyone, I noticed a series of redactions [0, 1, 2] by pnorman redaction revert within our area. I don't intend to discuss the merits of the redaction here since upon looking at the 3 changesets, it seems to me that the removal of data is valid (based on the changeset comment Redaction of Google as a source). In some cases, I also do reverts around my patch if I know that the source is tainted. My question is, in what case should we ourselves revert or ask the DWG for redaction? AFAIK, redaction hides the version history of the redacted changeset/feature [3] as against a regular revert which still includes the complete history. However, reverts (using JOSM) is much easier (and faster) since it doesn't need moderator privileges and regular users can do it. [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14679315 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14679302 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14679298 [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/142690659/history -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16.01.13 20:08, Alex Barth wrote: My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Attribution (which is what you talk about) consists of naming the author and the license. Naming the author (expressis verbis: naming OpenStreetMap contributors) directly on the website is a good feature that shouldn't be omitted. It stays there on screenshots and leaves no doubt that it comes from OSM. BTW, I don't like your hammer drop symbol (even don't see an explanation for it). The link serves as the second thing: naming the license. This is twofold: - stating ODbL for the data - stating CC BY-SA for the map tiles (especially for the default ones) Of course, the link landing page (could read /copyright, /license -- /contributors for me seems not so good) could be made more pleasant, could be an overlay window etc. Naming (for Austria) Wien, Vbg. and Tirol (plus the wording!) on /copyright was requested by the CC BY license holders (which came from the fact that there already were such attributions). /al ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] fietswinkels
Op openstreetmap.org zijn de afgelopen jaren veel fietspaden en veel fietsroutes ingetekend. http://www.openfietskaart.nl en http://www.opencyclemap.org zijn afgeleiden hiervan die de fietpaden en de fietsroutes prachtig laten zien. Op www.opencyclemap.org zijn ook (als men voldoende inzoomt) eventuele fietswinkels te zien, Dit kan handig zijn als men pech heeft tijdens een langere fietstocht. Ik heb daarom zoveel mogelijk fietswinkels in omgeving ingetekent. Om het gebied te begrenzen heb ik daarom het gebied tussen het noordzeekanaal, het amsterdam-rijnkanaal en de rijn bewerkt. De rest van de wereld moet daarom maar iemand anders maar intekenen. Ronald ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] fietswinkels
Zie ook: http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ligfietser/fiets/?map=cyclewayszoom=13lat=52.0424lon=5.11707layers=000B00FFFTF On 01/16/2013 10:17 PM, Ronald Stroethoff wrote: Op openstreetmap.org zijn de afgelopen jaren veel fietspaden en veel fietsroutes ingetekend. --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Umstellung auf lanes AA Wittlich-West
Hi! Am 15. Januar 2013 23:21 schrieb Bernhard Weiskopf bweisk...@gmx.de: Hallo Jörg! Ich würde die schrägen motorway_link-Fahrbahnen wenige Meter früher abzweigen lassen, etwa beim Beginn der durchgezogenen Linie oder ein wenig später, eben dort, wo man am Lenkrad drehen muss. Du hast sie genau an der baulichen Trennung angebunden, das ist aber auch korrekt und unkritisch... Dann müsste Jetzt rechts abbiegen bei einer normalen Kreuzung auch immer zu spät kommen. Oder? Was verstehst du unter normaler Kreuzung? Wann der Abbiege-Hinweis kommt, wird durch interne Programmparameter festgelegt und ist bei den Geräten etwas unterschiedlich. Nach meiner Erfahrung mit einigen Geräten kommt der Hinweis im Mittel etwa 20 Meter zuzüglich 3 Sekunden vor dem Abzweig. Fährt man sehr langsam, z. B. im Stau, ist der geschwindigkeitsabhängige Teil (3 Sekunden) vernachlässigbar und der Hinweis kommt 20 Meter vor dem Abzweig. Ist der Abzweigknoten mehr als 20 Meter nach dem Beginn der durchgezogenen Linie eingezeichnet, darf man dann schon nicht mehr die Spur wechseln. Wenn man eine Kreuzung mit großen Fahrbahninseln ohne die Ausgleitbahnen vor den Inseln zeichnet, kann es durchaus passieren, dass der Abbiege-Hinweis etwas zu spät kommt. Zeichnet man dagegen die ganze Abbiegespur als separate Fahrbahn, kommt am Abbiegepunkt gar kein Hinweis mehr. Glücklicherweise kündigen fast alle Navis schon einige hundert Meter vorher an, dass man bald abbiegen muss. Unser Navi von Navigon sagt jetzt rechts abbiegen schon so früh, dass es bei dicht hintereinander folgenden Ausfahrten eine zu früh rausschickt. Das ist keine gute Lösung. Danke für die sehr gute Zusammenfassung eines der größten Navi-Probleme, welches wir derzeit mit OSM-Daten haben. Vielen Mappern ist nicht bewusst, dass Navis nicht direkt an dem Punkt wo sich die Wege trennen die Anweisungen geben sondern (tw. lange) davor. Daher muss die Trennung der OSM-Wege auch dort erfolgen wo sich die Fahrbahnen tatsächlich auftrennen. Nur dann haben Navis eine Chance korrekte Anweisungen zugeben. Ein (alp-)traumhaftes Beispiel dafür ist hier: http://osrm.at/1VR Drei Ausfahrten in kurzen Abständen. Mein Navi (Skobbler) sagt mir praktisch immer eine Ausfahrt zu früh an, dass ich abfahren soll. Meiner Meinung nach müssen wir in der nächsten Zeit nicht nur an Tagging-Schemas für's Spurmapping arbeiten sondern auch an Aufklärung und Dokumentation. Wir müssen den Mappern erklären, warum man z.B. eben nicht am Anfang des Verzögerungsstreifens schon die OSM-Wege auftrennt sondern eben erst dort wo die tatsächliche Trennung ist. Bei normalen Kreuzungen, d.h. Kreuzungen ohne Fahrbahntrennung würde auch kein Mapper auf die Idee kommen, die Wege nicht dort zu verbinden wo die tatsächliche Kreuzung ist. Ich habe in der Vergangenheit schon ein paar Beispiele für Autobahnen erstellt ([1]-[3], aktuell noch ohne placement-Key, welcher praktisch jedes dieser Beispiele in aktuellen Renderern hübscher aussehen lassen würde und trotzdem präzise Informationen zum Spurlayout liefert) und werde zumindest [1] jetzt noch um deine Erklärung zum Navi-Verhalten ergänzen. Abschließend noch eine Frage: hat sich schon jemand Gedanken gemacht, wie man taggen könnte, welche Spuren eines OSM-Weges mit welchen Spuren des nachfolgenden Weges verbunden sind? Dieses Problem möchte ich relativ bald angehen, allerdings fehlt mir noch eine Idee, welche mir auch tatsächlich gefällt. vg, Martin [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_Deceleration_Lane_at_Exit [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_No_Lane_Changing [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_Acceleration_Lane ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 15.01.2013 20:03, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Am 15.01.2013 19:38, schrieb Josef Latt: Am 15.01.2013 17:57, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Insofern betrachte ich diese Regel als überflüssig und überholt, und sich daran zu halten ist eigentlich taggen-für-den-veralteten-renderer bzw. taggen-für-den-veralteten-validator. Dann ist das Wiki in dem Punkt also überholt. ;) Layer dienen doch dazu, physikalisch übereinander liegende Objekte zu kennzeichnen/trennen. Gilt dann zwangsläufig auch für Brücken und Tunnels. Lese ich auch so im Wiki. Das ist richtig, aber eben im Normalfall redundant. Für die Zeichenreihenfolge hilft das layer-tag außerdem übrigens auch nicht immer. Bei Wegen IMHO überhaupt nicht. Und die Schichtung von Flächen per layer ist nicht mehr angesagt, obwohl es da noch den ein oder anderen Altvorderen gibt. Beispiel 1: Ein Bach wird mit layer=-1 getagged, weil er ja unter der Straße verläuft. Gleichzeitig wird die Wiese links und rechts von Straße und Bach aber nicht mit einem layer getagged (also default layer=0, wenn du so willst). Konsequent wäre also: erst den Bach zeichnen, dann die Wiese, dann die Straße/Brücke. Demnach würde aber vermutlich der Bach übermalt = Fehler. Vermutlich. Weshalb sehe ich dann in Karten die Flüsse mit layer=-1? Beispiel 2: Der Bach fließt durch ein Rohr unter der Straße, (tunnel=culvert, von mir aus auch tunnel=yes). Layer=-1 ist hier eigentlich nicht nötig, bzw. würde wieder dafür sorgen, dass der Tunnel verschwindet (s. oben), weil erst der Tunnel, dann die Wiese, dann die Strßae gezeichnet wird = Fehler. Siehe Anmerkung zu Beispielm1: Beispiel 3: Die Straße führt über eine Brücke. Ich tagge an die brücke ein layer=1. Das ist richtig und in ordnung, aber warum sollte es notwendig sein? Eine Brücke liegt üblicherweise über dem, was sie überquert. Der Bach hat dabei kein layer=1, was völlig in Ordnung ist, aber der Render-Stil muss jetzt auch dafür sorgen, dass der Bach über der Wiese gezeichnet wird, die eben für den bach nicht aufgetrennt ist. Wichtig ist der layer-Tag meiner Meinung deshalb nur (!) da, wo es aus den sonstigen Informationen nicht ersichtlich wird. Also: - wenn level angegeben ist (und damit das Stockwerk in gebäuden), dann ist layer nur innerhalb eines Stockwerks sinnvoll. [wenn nicht: ] - wenn sich zwei Elemente kreuzen, dann haben die a) einen gemeinsamen Node und kreuzen sich echt (z.B. Bahnübergang, Querungsstelle, Furt, ...); der Node kann dann entsprechend getagged werden. b) an einem element bridge oder tunnel, evtl. gibt's hier zusätzliche Varianten. c) unterschiedliche level-Elemente Wenn sich zwei Brücken, zwei Tunnel oder mehr kreuzen, dann - und weitgehend nur dann - ist layer notwendig, weil die vertikale Lage der zwei entsprechenden Elemente zueinander nicht klar ist. Falls es weitere Ausnahmen gibt, dann sollten die sich weitgehend auf Fälle beschränken lassen, in denen die obigen Annahmen eben nicht gelten, also wenn ein Tunnel über einer Brücke verläuft () oder sowas. Insgesamt ist mir das nicht einsichtig. Keine Regel, so es denn welche gibt, ohne Ausnahme. Regeln sollten aber so gestaltet sein, dass es möglichst wenig Ausnahmen gibt. Darstellung in einer Karte und Dokumentation in der Datenbank sind IMHO zwei Paar Stiefel. Gruß ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 15.01.2013 20:09, schrieb Josef Latt: bicycle = yes foot = yes highway = track layer = -2 Ist wohl auch normal? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 16.01.2013 09:33, schrieb Josef Latt: Am 15.01.2013 20:03, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Am 15.01.2013 19:38, schrieb Josef Latt: Am 15.01.2013 17:57, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Insofern betrachte ich diese Regel als überflüssig und überholt, und sich daran zu halten ist eigentlich taggen-für-den-veralteten-renderer bzw. taggen-für-den-veralteten-validator. Dann ist das Wiki in dem Punkt also überholt. ;) Layer dienen doch dazu, physikalisch übereinander liegende Objekte zu kennzeichnen/trennen. Gilt dann zwangsläufig auch für Brücken und Tunnels. Lese ich auch so im Wiki. Das ist richtig, aber eben im Normalfall redundant. Für die Zeichenreihenfolge hilft das layer-tag außerdem übrigens auch nicht immer. Bei Wegen IMHO überhaupt nicht. Und die Schichtung von Flächen per layer ist nicht mehr angesagt, obwohl es da noch den ein oder anderen Altvorderen gibt. Beispiel 1: Ein Bach wird mit layer=-1 getagged, weil er ja unter der Straße verläuft. Gleichzeitig wird die Wiese links und rechts von Straße und Bach aber nicht mit einem layer getagged (also default layer=0, wenn du so willst). Konsequent wäre also: erst den Bach zeichnen, dann die Wiese, dann die Straße/Brücke. Demnach würde aber vermutlich der Bach übermalt = Fehler. Vermutlich. Weshalb sehe ich dann in Karten die Flüsse mit layer=-1? Ich denke, weil die Macher von Renderregeln aufgrund von Tatsachen nicht konsequent sind und layer hier eben bewusst ignorieren. Aber meiner Meinung nach ist das kein Grund, weiter so zu mappen, sondern langsam aber sicher davon wegzukommen. [..] Beispiel 3: Die Straße führt über eine Brücke. Ich tagge an die brücke ein layer=1. Das ist richtig und in ordnung, aber warum sollte es notwendig sein? Eine Brücke liegt üblicherweise über dem, was sie überquert. Der Bach hat dabei kein layer=1, was völlig in Ordnung ist, aber der Render-Stil muss jetzt auch dafür sorgen, dass der Bach über der Wiese gezeichnet wird, die eben für den bach nicht aufgetrennt ist. Wichtig ist der layer-Tag meiner Meinung deshalb nur (!) da, wo es aus den sonstigen Informationen nicht ersichtlich wird. Also: - wenn level angegeben ist (und damit das Stockwerk in gebäuden), dann ist layer nur innerhalb eines Stockwerks sinnvoll. [wenn nicht: ] - wenn sich zwei Elemente kreuzen, dann haben die a) einen gemeinsamen Node und kreuzen sich echt (z.B. Bahnübergang, Querungsstelle, Furt, ...); der Node kann dann entsprechend getagged werden. b) an einem element bridge oder tunnel, evtl. gibt's hier zusätzliche Varianten. c) unterschiedliche level-Elemente Wenn sich zwei Brücken, zwei Tunnel oder mehr kreuzen, dann - und weitgehend nur dann - ist layer notwendig, weil die vertikale Lage der zwei entsprechenden Elemente zueinander nicht klar ist. Falls es weitere Ausnahmen gibt, dann sollten die sich weitgehend auf Fälle beschränken lassen, in denen die obigen Annahmen eben nicht gelten, also wenn ein Tunnel über einer Brücke verläuft () oder sowas. Insgesamt ist mir das nicht einsichtig. Keine Regel, so es denn welche gibt, ohne Ausnahme. Regeln sollten aber so gestaltet sein, dass es möglichst wenig Ausnahmen gibt. Die Alternative sind doch die: Entweder, die Regel ist, layer dranzupappen, damit die Datenbank vollzumüllen - und die Nutzer der Daten müssen trotzdem ohne klarkommen (ewiges Problem unvollständiger Daten in osm). dann wäre die Regel für Mapper weder für die Datenbank noch für die Datenkonsumenten nützlich, einige Mapper werden sich das aus Faulheit oder Unwissenheit trotzdem ersparen, und niemandem ist geholfen. Oder aber die Regel ist, keine Layer dranzupappen - das ist einfach für Mapper, erspart überflüssige Daten und Datenauswerter müssen auch nicht mehr unterstützen als bei der anderen Variante, und es gibt Ausnahmen genau da, wo die Reihenfolge dadurch nicht eindeutig ist; und wenn da der layer fehlt, kann man das mit technischen Mitteln erkennen (nicht lösen, aber erkennen und den Mapper darauf hinweisen). Das ist dann zugegeben nicht so einfach zu erkennen wie da ist 'ne Brücke, also fehlt ein layer, aber sooo viel schwerer dann auch nicht. Algorithmisch ist das ungefähr ein: bringe die kreuzenden Elemente in eine definierte Reihenfolge. Ist die nicht eindeutig, fehlt was. Reihenfolgeregeln: bridge.layer = bridge.layer nix.layer = nix.layer tunnel.layer = tunnel.layer Wo sich ein Widerspruch oder ein = zwischen zwei Elementen ergibt, fehlt eine layer-angabe oder aber ein gemeinsamer nodes der zwei ways. Gruß Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 15.01.13 schrieb Ronnie Soak: Dein Argument war 'braucht Platz auf dem Server, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, oder? Auf dem Server ist es sowieso zu spät, weil dort die gelöschten Daten stehenbleiben. Aber mehr Platz und mehr Zeit braucht auch jeder Datenkonsument. Daneben birgt es die Gefahr, dass Neulinge sich die Daten anschauen und das zusätzliche foot=yes in ihre Tagginggewohnheiten übernehmen, weil sie es in ihrer Heimat überall so sehen. Gruß, Fabian.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 16.01.2013 10:33, schrieb Fabian Schmidt: Daneben birgt es die Gefahr, dass Neulinge sich die Daten anschauen und das zusätzliche foot=yes in ihre Tagginggewohnheiten übernehmen, weil sie es in ihrer Heimat überall so sehen. +1 Gruß ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 16.01.2013 10:06, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Die Alternative sind doch die: Entweder, die Regel ist, layer dranzupappen, damit die Datenbank vollzumüllen - Da gibt es andere Kandidaten (teilweise Thema hier), die da erheblich effektiver sind. Gruß ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Und wann ist nun das Resumee? foot=yes an highway=footway als Verifikation, welche real keine ist, oder Datenmüll. Dito für bicyle=no anhighway=footway Auch bicycle=yes an highway=cycleway fällt in diese Kategorie. Gruß ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Umstellung auf lanes AA Wittlich-West
Am Dienstag, den 15.01.2013, 01:30 +0100 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Am 14. Januar 2013 22:34 schrieb Bernhard Weiskopf bweisk...@gmx.de: In Deutschland gilt außerorts (!) eine durchgezogene doppelte Linie als bauliche Trennung... Quelle: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attributierung_von_Stra%C3%9Fen_in_Deutsc hland im Prinzip ist es für die Diskussion in OSM über Fahrbahnen, bauliche Trennungen und highway ways egal, ob bestimmte Markierungen rechtlich als bauliche Trennung gelten, solange sie sich nicht so anfühlen. Es bleibt halt immer ein Unterschied, ob man gegen eine Betonwand oder gegen eine weisse Linie fährt wenn man sich nicht an die Regeln hält. +1 Es handelt sich bei einer Mittellinie, egal aus wie vielen Strichen, nicht um eine bauliche Trennung. Diese Seite kannte ich noch nicht, sie ist die einzige, die das so beschreibt, siehe auch die Warnung am Kopf der Seite. Der Zusatz ist 2009 ohne größere Diskussion einfach eingetragen worden, wird aber von keiner anderen Seite so gesehen. Eine aufgemalte Linie ist nichts bauliches. Das sieht der Gesetzgeber übrigens genauso, denn in §3 Abs.3 Nr. 2c (darauf bezieht sich offensichtlich diese Einfügung) wird die doppelte Linie ausdrücklich als weitere Trennungsmöglichkeit zusätzlich zu baulichen Trennungen erwähnt. Anders als die Autorin das gelesen hat, steht dort die Formulierung ferner nicht auf Straßen, die mindestens zwei durch Fahrstreifenbegrenzung Die bauliche Trennung wird im Satz davor behandelt. Ich halte nichts davon, hier in Deutschland einen Sonderweg zu gehen, weil dadurch jede Darstellung in internationalen Karten auf der einen oder anderen Seite der Grenze nahezu zwangsläufig zu Fehlern führt, es sei denn der Kartenersteller erzeugt für jedes Land einen anderen Style. Die Darstellung der Fahrstreifen sollte dem Fahrspurmapping überlassen werden, das jetzt so langsam in Fahrt kommt. Insofern bin ich dafür, diesen Zusatz aus der Seite wieder zu entfernen. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Umstellung auf lanes AA Wittlich-West
Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2013, 09:06 +0100 schrieb Martin Vonwald: Abschließend noch eine Frage: hat sich schon jemand Gedanken gemacht, wie man taggen könnte, welche Spuren eines OSM-Weges mit welchen Spuren des nachfolgenden Weges verbunden sind? Dieses Problem möchte ich relativ bald angehen, allerdings fehlt mir noch eine Idee, welche mir auch tatsächlich gefällt. Ja, ich würde eine Relation wählen, in der als eine von-nach-Beziehung steht. way a lane 3 - way b lane 1 - way c lane 3 So als Beispiel, wenn sich eine Spur verzweigt oder in diesem Beispiel auf verschiedene Wege verteilt. So ganz zuende gedacht habe ich das aber auch noch nicht. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Umstellung auf lanes AA Wittlich-West
Hi, wieder was auf der Strecke geblieben... Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2013, 23:08 +0100 schrieb Wolfgang Hinsch: Das sieht der Gesetzgeber übrigens genauso, denn in §3 Abs.3 Nr. 2c StVO (darauf bezieht sich offensichtlich diese Einfügung) wird Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Neue Möglichkeit für private Luftbilder
Hallo, eben entdeckt. http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Drohne-mit-Autopilot-fuer-GoPro--Lehmann-Aviation-L-10384.html Wenn nur nicht Kosten so intensiv wären. :) vg Andreas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2013, 16:53 +0100 schrieb Josef Latt: Und wann ist nun das Resumee? foot=yes an highway=footway als Verifikation, welche real keine ist, oder Datenmüll. Dito für bicyle=no anhighway=footway Auch bicycle=yes an highway=cycleway fällt in diese Kategorie. bicycle=yes wurde (wird?) z.B. im Lübecker Raum benutzt, um anzuzeigen, dass der Weg für Radfahrer erlaubt, aber nicht verpflichtend ist, als Gegensatz zu bicycle=designated. Wo das tag fehlte, war nicht klar, ob die verpflichtende Benutzung geklärt war oder nicht. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
bicycle=yes wurde (wird?) z.B. im Lübecker Raum benutzt, um anzuzeigen, dass der Weg für Radfahrer erlaubt, aber nicht verpflichtend ist, als Gegensatz zu bicycle=designated. Wo das tag fehlte, war nicht klar, ob die verpflichtende Benutzung geklärt war oder nicht. Gruß, Wolfgang So mache ich das auch (im Mannheimer Raum), manchmal auch bei Fußwegen (foot = yes - normaler Gehweg ohne Beschilderung, foot = designated - mit StVO-Zeichen 239, 240 oder 241) Die default-Werte wie oneway = no haben außerdem nur Vermutungscharakter, andernfalls dürfte man beispielsweise eine Straße ohne oneway-tag nur dann einzeichnen, wenn man genau weiß, dass sie in beiden Richtungen befahrbar ist. Bei Radwegen neben Straßen ist sogar wichtig, ob man sie in beiden Richtungen befahren darf, die sind in Deutschland ohne beidseitige Beschilderung Einrichtungs-Wege und ich setze immer onenway = no dazu, wenn der Radweg in beiden Richtungen genutzt werden darf bzw. oneway = yes wenn nicht. Fehlt das tag, dann ist diese Eigenschaft unbekannt. Ich würde alle vermeintlich redundanten Tags belassen. Bernhard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 16.01.2013, 16:53 Uhr, schrieb Josef Latt josef.l...@gmx.net: Und wann ist nun das Resumee? foot=yes an highway=footway als Verifikation, welche real keine ist, oder Datenmüll. Dito für bicyle=no anhighway=footway Auch bicycle=yes an highway=cycleway fällt in diese Kategorie. Da es unterschiedliche Meinungen zu Defaultwerten gibt, halte ich die Löschung der Tags erstmal für fraglich. Hier [1] steht, dass footway, cycleway und bridleway *=designated als Standartwert haben. Die gelöschten *=yes würden in dem Fall das designated überschreiben... Besser währe es, den niedrigst möglichen, bzw. in jedem Fall geltenden Wert (oder gar nicht), als Standart festzulegen. Meine Meinung hierzu ist, dass es bei verschiedenen Arten von Wegen/Wegeigenschaften keinen Defaultwert geben sollte. Beispiel oneway=* Autobahnen 99% Einbahnstraße, Defaultwert: oneway=yes 95% aller (normalen) Straßen sind keine Einbahnstaßen, Defaultwert: oneway=no Bei Radwegen gibt es Zwei- und Einrichtungsradwege, kein Defaultwert Bei Radwegen gibt es Benutzungspflichtige, und welche die man befahren darf. Also eher kein Defaultwert. (Hingegen könnte man Argumentieren, dass bicycle=yes als Fallback-Defaultwert gilt. Da es aber viele unterschiedliche Radwege gibt, könnte es sich anbieten, alle zu taggen, so dass man unvollständig getaggte besser findet.) Übrigens kann ein bicycle=yes schon Sinn machen, zB wie hier [2] an einer Militärstraße durchs Militärgebiet. (Um sicher zu sein, dass man dort mit dem Rad langfahren kann/darf.) Dann gibt es noch Benutzungspflichtige Fußwege für Radfahrer frei: highway=* (zB. footway, path oder cycleway, je nach Gesamtbeschaffenheit) mit foot=designated + bicycle=yes (als Beschilderung/Berechtigung) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Germany [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/74385474 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Offenlegung von Stilen
Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu wrote: Allerdings entspricht Up to date = Daily weder meiner Beobachtung noch dem, was hier im Thread geschrieben wurde. (Wöchentlich könnte hinkommen, jedenfalls war meine Änderung vom Sonntag dann nach dem Donnerstag sichtbar.) Ich benutze diese Karte nicht. Wenn Du Dir sicher bist, dann ändere es. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 17.01.2013 00:11, schrieb Wolfgang Hinsch: Am Mittwoch, den 16.01.2013, 16:53 +0100 schrieb Josef Latt: Und wann ist nun das Resumee? foot=yes an highway=footway als Verifikation, welche real keine ist, oder Datenmüll. Dito für bicyle=no anhighway=footway Auch bicycle=yes an highway=cycleway fällt in diese Kategorie. bicycle=yes wurde (wird?) z.B. im Lübecker Raum benutzt, um anzuzeigen, dass der Weg für Radfahrer erlaubt, aber nicht verpflichtend ist, als Gegensatz zu bicycle=designated. Wo das tag fehlte, war nicht klar, ob die verpflichtende Benutzung geklärt war oder nicht. Und wenn es dran ist, ist es eben auch nicht klar. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Offenlegung von Stilen
Hi, Am 17.01.2013 um 03:38 schrieb Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de: Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu wrote: Allerdings entspricht Up to date = Daily weder meiner Beobachtung noch dem, was hier im Thread geschrieben wurde. (Wöchentlich könnte hinkommen, jedenfalls war meine Änderung vom Sonntag dann nach dem Donnerstag sichtbar.) Ich benutze diese Karte nicht. Wenn Du Dir sicher bist, dann ändere es. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenCycleMap Alle 48 Stunden werden frische Daten geholt, allerdings dauert das Neurendern nochmals ein paar Tage. Vg, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] unangekuendigte Massenedits
Am 17.01.2013 01:46, schrieb Masi Master: Am 16.01.2013, 16:53 Uhr, schrieb Josef Latt josef.l...@gmx.net: Und wann ist nun das Resumee? foot=yes an highway=footway als Verifikation, welche real keine ist, oder Datenmüll. Dito für bicyle=no anhighway=footway Auch bicycle=yes an highway=cycleway fällt in diese Kategorie. Da es unterschiedliche Meinungen zu Defaultwerten gibt, halte ich die Löschung der Tags erstmal für fraglich. foot=yes an highway=footway ist kein Defaultwert. Hier [1] steht, dass footway, cycleway und bridleway *=designated als Standartwert haben. Die gelöschten *=yes würden in dem Fall das designated überschreiben... Wie geht das denn? Besser währe es, den niedrigst möglichen, bzw. in jedem Fall geltenden Wert (oder gar nicht), als Standart festzulegen. Meine Meinung hierzu ist, dass es bei verschiedenen Arten von Wegen/Wegeigenschaften keinen Defaultwert geben sollte. Beispiel oneway=* Autobahnen 99% Einbahnstraße, Defaultwert: oneway=yes 95% aller (normalen) Straßen sind keine Einbahnstaßen, Defaultwert: oneway=no Bei Radwegen gibt es Zwei- und Einrichtungsradwege, kein Defaultwert Bei Radwegen gibt es Benutzungspflichtige, und welche die man befahren darf. Wie schön, dass man Radwege auch befahren darf. Also eher kein Defaultwert. (Hingegen könnte man Argumentieren, dass bicycle=yes als Fallback-Defaultwert gilt. Da es aber viele unterschiedliche Radwege gibt, könnte es sich anbieten, alle zu taggen, so dass man unvollständig getaggte besser findet.) Prinzipiell gibt es nur benutzungspflichtige (straßenbegleitende) Radwege, zumindest in DE. Die Querfeldeinwege mit dem blauen Schild sind ja an und für sich keine und können de facto auch nicht benutzungspflichtig sein. BTW, deren Beschilderung entspricht nicht der StVO. Hatte ich schon erwähnt. Übrigens kann ein bicycle=yes schon Sinn machen, zB wie hier [2] an einer Militärstraße durchs Militärgebiet. (Um sicher zu sein, dass man dort mit dem Rad langfahren kann/darf.) Dann gibt es noch Benutzungspflichtige Fußwege für Radfahrer frei: highway=* (zB. footway, path oder cycleway, je nach Gesamtbeschaffenheit) mit foot=designated + bicycle=yes (als Beschilderung/Berechtigung) Das ist doch ganz was anderes. footway + foot=yes ist gemeint und nicht andere Wege, wo das foot=yes die die per se nicht erlaubte Nutzung durch Fußgänger gestattet. Gruß ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] [Curiosità] Banca aperta un solo giorno alla settimana
Anni fa (facevo assistenza, ora non lo sò) anche la minifiliale (una stanza all'interno del municipio) di Banca Intesa nel comune di Triora (quello famoso per le streghe) nell'alto imperiese era aperto un mattino la settimana. Messaggio originale Da: gianlucabo...@alice.it Data: 16/01/2013 0.27 A: Talk-it OpenStreetMaptalk-it@openstreetmap.org Ogg: [Talk-it] [Curiosità] Banca aperta un solo giorno alla settimana Ciao a tutti. Volevo segnalarvi una piccola stranezza. Ho mappato in Val Pellice in un piccolo paesino di montagna, un'agenzia Unicredit aperta solamente il giovedì mattina. Opening_hours Th 08:30-12:30 Non credo accada spesso :-) ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] inserire immagini raccolte lungo un percorso e schede descrittive
Salve a tutt*. è la prima volta che scrivo (e ho scoperto osm solo un paio i settimane fa), quidni scusate se la mia domanda risulta banale. Dopo aver cartografato col gps un sentiero ero intenzionato a correlare alcuni waypoint con foto e pdf informativi (cos che ho già fatto con gpsprune)...ma al momento del caricamento la cosa non ha funzionato. lungo il percorso (al momento pubblicato in modalità privata) risultano sì segnalati quei punti sul percorso dove sarebbero dovute comparire le foto...ma non le foto!!!...è normale? grazie, sandro. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] inserire immagini raccolte lungo un percorso e schede descrittive
2013/1/16 Sandro Pellicciotta sandro.pelliccio...@studio.unibo.it: Salve a tutt*. è la prima volta che scrivo (e ho scoperto osm solo un paio i settimane fa), quidni scusate se la mia domanda risulta banale. Dopo aver cartografato col gps un sentiero ero intenzionato a correlare alcuni waypoint con foto e pdf informativi (cos che ho già fatto con gpsprune)...ma al momento del caricamento la cosa non ha funzionato. lungo il percorso (al momento pubblicato in modalità privata) risultano sì segnalati quei punti sul percorso dove sarebbero dovute comparire le foto...ma non le foto!!!...è normale? si, le foto (e credo anche waypoints) non puoi caricare sul sito di osm.org, le devi usare in locale (per waypoints non sono sicuro, credo però che andranno salvati ma non restituiti se scarichi con l'API per il gps invece della traccia intera). Alla fine cosa ci interessa di più è ciò che tu hai individuato sulle foto (e messo nel db). Le tracce GPX sono sempre utili per i mappatori seguenti, ma non sono così importanti (personalmente carico quasi tutte le tracce, un aiuto sono quasi sempre). Se invece di interessa contribuire anche foto georeferenziate ci sono dei progetti sorelle come http://openstreetview.org/ e open trail view (dominio di otv sembra sospeso) dove le puoi caricare. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-dk] Henvendelse til GST om licens
Vi har tidligere talt om licensen til de dejlige nye grunddata. Jeg tænker mig at sende nedenstående til GST. Lad mig høre, om der er nogen indvendinger, kommentarer eller forslag - eller om nogen af jer andre allerede har spurgt dem officielt. Især vil jeg gerne vide, hvis jeg har overset en brugssituation. - Jørgen = Til Geodatastyrelsen i...@mim.dk Vedr. vilkår for brug af frie geografiske data -- Som deltager i projektet OpenStreetMap har jeg med interesse fulgt åbningen af grunddata. Dog er jeg i tvivl om, hvordan jeg skal tolke vilkårene for brug af frie geografiske data, som de fremstår på siden http://download.kortforsyningen.dk/content/vilk%C3%A5r-og-betingelser Det er især kildeangivelsen, der volder problemer. Jeg ønsker derfor på OpenStreetMap's vegne at få oplyst, om det vil være tilladt at anvende de frie geografiske data på følgende måder: 1) Direkte Import i OpenStreetMap - Data konverteres og importeres automatisk i OpenStreetMap i form af punkter, veje, arealer e.l. I OpenStreetMaps database markeres kildeangivelse ved brug af source-tag på de enkelte objekter med f.x. source=Geodatastyrelsen, NamedPlaces. Tidspunkt for import vil fremgå af tidsstemplet for objektet. Det vil dog ikke være muligt at sikre sig imod, at source-tagget ændres af andre brugere efterfølgende (omend det stadig vil fremgå af historikken for objektet). Det vil heller ikke være muligt at stille krav til, at brugere af OpenStreetMap benytter kildeangivelsen i afledte data. 2) Samling af datakilder Eksisterende data i OpenstreetMap behandles automatisk og beriges med data fra Geostyrelsen. Et eksempel kunne være, at et eksisterende hus blev tilføjet oplysninger om højde over havet ud fra højdemodellen - eller at en eksisterende vej blev tilføjet oplysning om stigning ud fra højdemodellen. Der angives ingen kilde i source-tag. Subsidiært kan der angives kilde i commit-besked eller i en særlig source:elevation-tag. 3) Afledte data --- Data anvendes som baggrundslag i korttegningsværktøjer. Veje, huse, etc. indtegnes manuelt ud fra billedmateriale fra Geodatastyrelsen. Der angives som udgangspunkt ikke kilde. Subsidiært angives kilde i commitbesked eller i source-tag, f.x. source=Geodatastyrelsen, FOT ortofoto. Jeg forventer som udgangspunkt, at det vil være muligt at anvende de frie data i OpenStreetMap på den ene eller anden måde, men jeg vil gerne sikre mig, at det sker korrekt. Jeg vil derfor anmode om Geodatastyrelsens tilsagn om, at ovenstående anvendelser er tilladte. På OpenStreetMap Danmarks vegne, Jørgen Elgaard Larsen ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk
Re: [Talk-dk] Henvendelse til GST om licens
Hej Jørgen Jeg har i sidste uge sendt en mail ved SNSOR (StedNavne- og StamOplysningsRegister) til to medarbejdere i den afdeling hos GST Såvidt jeg kan læse, så er deres krediteringønske noget i stil med Geodatastyrelen - XXnavn på datasæt Jeg har lavet et eksempel i OSM på en lille flække jeg har fundet via SNSOR http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2103315730 og sendt til dem Jeg har spurgt om source = Geodatastyrelsen - SNSOR er godt nok og samtidigt påpegede at OSM DK ikke 100 % kan garantere at nogen måske i version 2,3 sletter dette source tag. Jeg har ikke hørt noget endnu fra dem vedr. dette. Men du skal da være velkommen til at sende dine spørgsmål til andre personer i GST. vh Søren Johannessen 2013/1/16 Jørgen Elgaard Larsen j...@elgaard.net: Vi har tidligere talt om licensen til de dejlige nye grunddata. Jeg tænker mig at sende nedenstående til GST. Lad mig høre, om der er nogen indvendinger, kommentarer eller forslag - eller om nogen af jer andre allerede har spurgt dem officielt. Især vil jeg gerne vide, hvis jeg har overset en brugssituation. - Jørgen = Til Geodatastyrelsen i...@mim.dk Vedr. vilkår for brug af frie geografiske data -- Som deltager i projektet OpenStreetMap har jeg med interesse fulgt åbningen af grunddata. Dog er jeg i tvivl om, hvordan jeg skal tolke vilkårene for brug af frie geografiske data, som de fremstår på siden http://download.kortforsyningen.dk/content/vilk%C3%A5r-og-betingelser Det er især kildeangivelsen, der volder problemer. Jeg ønsker derfor på OpenStreetMap's vegne at få oplyst, om det vil være tilladt at anvende de frie geografiske data på følgende måder: 1) Direkte Import i OpenStreetMap - Data konverteres og importeres automatisk i OpenStreetMap i form af punkter, veje, arealer e.l. I OpenStreetMaps database markeres kildeangivelse ved brug af source-tag på de enkelte objekter med f.x. source=Geodatastyrelsen, NamedPlaces. Tidspunkt for import vil fremgå af tidsstemplet for objektet. Det vil dog ikke være muligt at sikre sig imod, at source-tagget ændres af andre brugere efterfølgende (omend det stadig vil fremgå af historikken for objektet). Det vil heller ikke være muligt at stille krav til, at brugere af OpenStreetMap benytter kildeangivelsen i afledte data. 2) Samling af datakilder Eksisterende data i OpenstreetMap behandles automatisk og beriges med data fra Geostyrelsen. Et eksempel kunne være, at et eksisterende hus blev tilføjet oplysninger om højde over havet ud fra højdemodellen - eller at en eksisterende vej blev tilføjet oplysning om stigning ud fra højdemodellen. Der angives ingen kilde i source-tag. Subsidiært kan der angives kilde i commit-besked eller i en særlig source:elevation-tag. 3) Afledte data --- Data anvendes som baggrundslag i korttegningsværktøjer. Veje, huse, etc. indtegnes manuelt ud fra billedmateriale fra Geodatastyrelsen. Der angives som udgangspunkt ikke kilde. Subsidiært angives kilde i commitbesked eller i source-tag, f.x. source=Geodatastyrelsen, FOT ortofoto. Jeg forventer som udgangspunkt, at det vil være muligt at anvende de frie data i OpenStreetMap på den ene eller anden måde, men jeg vil gerne sikre mig, at det sker korrekt. Jeg vil derfor anmode om Geodatastyrelsens tilsagn om, at ovenstående anvendelser er tilladte. På OpenStreetMap Danmarks vegne, Jørgen Elgaard Larsen ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Quizá se podrían descartar las parcelas con áreas inferiores a X m2... -- David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
El 16 de enero de 2013 09:04, David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.comescribió: Quizá se podrían descartar las parcelas con áreas inferiores a X m2... Seria una buena manera. Si con esto se soluciona sin estropear otras cosas perfecto, pero si estropea cosas mejor dejarlo como esta que no es complicado de solucionar rapidamente antes de subir los datos, solo son borrarlas. Esas areas son un mal menor. Viendo Aldeaseca de Alba veo solo unos pequeños fallos pero que facilmente sean de catastro pero los comento por si acaso. Faltan calles en el pueblo, las que he visto son calles que no tienen nombre en catastro por lo que sera problema de catastro casi seguro. Luego tambien hay muchas calles que donde se cruzan no están unidas, algunas tiene cada vía su punto en el mismo lugar cuando tenia que ser un punto común de las 2. Al ser un pueblo pequeño no hay demasiadas pero porque son pocas calles, si pasa esto en poblaciones mas grandes podrían ser muchas cosas que corregir a mano. Con la dirección de los edificios tengo una duda que no se si se podrá hacer y si sera mejor o no ya que son datos opcionales. Los datos que salen son solamente la calle y el numero. El pais no se tendría que tener problema porque es solo para España. El nombre de la ciudad como se sacan los datos población por población tampoco se debería tener problema, lo que puede dar mas problema es a lo mejor el código postal que hay poblaciones que tienes varios códigos postales. Como digo no se si es mejor poner estos datos en cada parcela o no, ya que es opcional. En las plazas que son areas habría que poner area = yes. A ver si termino de examenes y puedo sacar alguna población propia y ver la rapidez que se comenta por aqui al procesar los datos. Por lo demás un trabajo perfecto, aunque no esperaba menos cada vez estoy mas sorprendido del magnifico trabajo que estais haciendo con el catastro. Un saludo. -- David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso - Sanchi Blog http://blog.jorgesanzs.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Seria una buena manera. Si con esto se soluciona sin estropear otras cosas perfecto, pero si estropea cosas mejor dejarlo como esta que no es complicado de solucionar rapidamente antes de subir los datos, solo son borrarlas. Esas areas son un mal menor. Esta opción estabamos barajando, si. Aunque habría que mirar muy bien cual es el límite de área que arregle estos casos y no estropee agujeros de verdad en edificios o parcelas. Viendo Aldeaseca de Alba veo solo unos pequeños fallos pero que facilmente sean de catastro pero los comento por si acaso. Faltan calles en el pueblo, las que he visto son calles que no tienen nombre en catastro por lo que sera problema de catastro casi seguro. Luego tambien hay muchas calles que donde se cruzan no están unidas, algunas tiene cada vía su punto en el mismo lugar cuando tenia que ser un punto común de las 2. Al ser un pueblo pequeño no hay demasiadas pero porque son pocas calles, si pasa esto en poblaciones mas grandes podrían ser muchas cosas que corregir a mano. Ejecutando Cat2Osm2 con el parámetro -ejes que (se supone) exporta todos los ejes me exporta las mismas calles que en la ejecución normal. La razón por la cual no hay calles unidas entre si es porque tened en cuenta que el archivo global con todos los datos es simplemente de muestra para ver el resultado completo o importar a una BD propia y se ha generado concatenando todos los demás archivos. Las calles se han exportado en archivos independientes por nombre de calle y por eso no están unidas entre si. Las únicas que se unen son las que no tienen nombre que, al ir todas en un mismo archivo (EJES-SINNOMBRE) si se unen todas las que estén conectadas. Con la dirección de los edificios tengo una duda que no se si se podrá hacer y si sera mejor o no ya que son datos opcionales. Los datos que salen son solamente la calle y el numero. El pais no se tendría que tener problema porque es solo para España. El nombre de la ciudad como se sacan los datos población por población tampoco se debería tener problema, lo que puede dar mas problema es a lo mejor el código postal que hay poblaciones que tienes varios códigos postales. Como digo no se si es mejor poner estos datos en cada parcela o no, ya que es opcional. Una duda parecida nos surgió a nosotros, si poner el código postal era redundante ya que al tener el límite de una población delimitado, todo lo que se encuentra en su interior ya tiene el código postal de manera implícita. Pero ahora que comentas que una población puede tener varios códigos postales si que nos pones más en duda de cómo habría que dejarlo o cómo se está haciendo en otros sitios. A ver si termino de examenes y puedo sacar alguna población propia y ver la rapidez que se comenta por aqui al procesar los datos. Se ha conseguido reducir muchisimo el tiempo de ejecución gracias a agrupar las geometrías por códigos de manzana y así reducir el número de geometrías que tienen que compararse entre sí. Aún y así, todavía el cálculo de portales no hay forma de agruparlo por parcelas y es la operación que más tiempo consume de todas. Por lo demás un trabajo perfecto, aunque no esperaba menos cada vez estoy mas sorprendido del magnifico trabajo que estais haciendo con el catastro. Un saludo. Muchas gracias Jorge. -- Ander Pijoan Lamas Research Assistant, Deustotech Computer Science Engineer University of Deusto E-mail: ander.pij...@deusto.es Phone: +34 664471228 in: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=162888312 ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Con la dirección de los edificios tengo una duda que no se si se podrá hacer y si sera mejor o no ya que son datos opcionales. Los datos que salen son solamente la calle y el numero. El pais no se tendría que tener problema porque es solo para España. El nombre de la ciudad como se sacan los datos población por población tampoco se debería tener problema, lo que puede dar mas problema es a lo mejor el código postal que hay poblaciones que tienes varios códigos postales. Como digo no se si es mejor poner estos datos en cada parcela o no, ya que es opcional. Una duda parecida nos surgió a nosotros, si poner el código postal era redundante ya que al tener el límite de una población delimitado, todo lo que se encuentra en su interior ya tiene el código postal de manera implícita. Pero ahora que comentas que una población puede tener varios códigos postales si que nos pones más en duda de cómo habría que dejarlo o cómo se está haciendo en otros sitios. En poblaciones pequeñas yo creo que ninguna tiene mas de un codigo postar. En ciudades seguro que tienen varios, en salamanca por ejemplo hay 8 o 9 diferentes. En pueblos grandes eso si que ya no se decir pero probablemente tambien tengan varios. -- Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso - Sanchi Blog http://blog.jorgesanzs.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Quizá en poblaciones pequeñas lo suyo sería poner el código postal a la relación que define el municipio, en lugar de ponerlo en todas las construcciones. En poblaciones grandes, con más de un código postal, quizá lo adecuado sea crear áreas con las fronteras entre códigos postales: aunque no cambian frecuentemente, una partición futura de un código postal en dos obligaría a cambiar todas las casas que lo tuvieran puesto dentro. Igual que no ponemos el municipio o incluso el país con los tags addr:city o addr:country de una casa, creo que tampoco deberíamos incluir el código postal. En otro orden de cosas, no sabía que el código postal estaba dentro de los datos del catastro... ¿Es así? -- David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
On Wednesday 16 January 2013 11:50:17 David Marín Carreño wrote: Quizá en poblaciones pequeñas lo suyo sería poner el código postal a la relación que define el municipio, en lugar de ponerlo en todas las construcciones. En poblaciones grandes, con más de un código postal, quizá lo adecuado sea crear áreas con las fronteras entre códigos postales: aunque no cambian frecuentemente, una partición futura de un código postal en dos obligaría a cambiar todas las casas que lo tuvieran puesto dentro. Igual que no ponemos el municipio o incluso el país con los tags addr:city o addr:country de una casa, creo que tampoco deberíamos incluir el código postal. En otro orden de cosas, no sabía que el código postal estaba dentro de los datos del catastro... ¿Es así? Si que está, el problema es de donde sacamos el polígono con el código postal. Es más, la pregunta es ¿cómo lo está haciendo ahora mismo nominatim y/o en otros países? -- Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández Email: cruz.bor...@deusto.es DeustoTech Energy Telefono: 944139000 ext.2052 Avda. Universidades, 24 48007 Bilbao, Spain ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
El miércoles, 16 de enero de 2013, David Marín Carreño escribió: Quizá en poblaciones pequeñas lo suyo sería poner el código postal a la relación que define el municipio, en lugar de ponerlo en todas las construcciones. En poblaciones grandes, con más de un código postal, quizá lo adecuado sea crear áreas con las fronteras entre códigos postales: aunque no cambian frecuentemente, una partición futura de un código postal en dos obligaría a cambiar todas las casas que lo tuvieran puesto dentro. Igual que no ponemos el municipio o incluso el país con los tags addr:city o addr:country de una casa, creo que tampoco deberíamos incluir el código postal. Me parece buena idea. En otro orden de cosas, no sabía que el código postal estaba dentro de los datos del catastro... ¿Es así? -- David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.com javascript:; ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org javascript:; http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso - Sanchi Blog http://blog.jorgesanzs.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Pues para sacar el área del código postal, se puede tomar todas las parcelas con el mismo código postal, y crear un nuevo polígono con la unión de todas ellas, asignándole el addr:postcode. El día 16 de enero de 2013 12:08, Ander Pijoan ander.pij...@deusto.es escribió: Todas las pareclas tienen su código postal. Lo que no nos hemos fijado es si en los casos de poblaciones con varios están bien puestos (que debería, pero siendo catastro ya no me creo nada). -- Ander Pijoan Lamas Research Assistant, Deustotech Computer Science Engineer University of Deusto E-mail: ander.pij...@deusto.es Phone: +34 664471228 in: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=162888312 ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- David Marín Carreño dav...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
On Wednesday 16 January 2013 12:18:27 David Marín Carreño wrote: Pues para sacar el área del código postal, se puede tomar todas las parcelas con el mismo código postal, y crear un nuevo polígono con la unión de todas ellas, asignándole el addr:postcode. Eso es una ÑAPA de proporciones bíblicas. ¿seguro que esa información no están en algún repositorio de Open Data? A mi me suena un huevo de haberla visto en algún lado... -- Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández Email: cruz.bor...@deusto.es DeustoTech Energy Telefono: 944139000 ext.2052 Avda. Universidades, 24 48007 Bilbao, Spain ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Documentacion sobre codigos postales (zip code): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relationships#Relationship_Overview http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:postal_code 2013/1/16 Cruz Enrique Borges cruz.bor...@deusto.es: On Wednesday 16 January 2013 12:18:27 David Marín Carreño wrote: Pues para sacar el área del código postal, se puede tomar todas las parcelas con el mismo código postal, y crear un nuevo polígono con la unión de todas ellas, asignándole el addr:postcode. Eso es una ÑAPA de proporciones bíblicas. ¿seguro que esa información no están en algún repositorio de Open Data? A mi me suena un huevo de haberla visto en algún lado... -- Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández Email: cruz.bor...@deusto.es DeustoTech Energy Telefono: 944139000 ext.2052 Avda. Universidades, 24 48007 Bilbao, Spain ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Atentamente, Suárez ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] València/Valencia
Hola, algunos municipios valencianos tienen el nombre oficial en bilíngüe, com en el País Vasco, por lo que, solo en estos casos, en name: debería ir la forma con barra, por mucho que me parezca una tontería eso de los topònimos oficiales bilíngües. Más info aquí [1] (en catalàn) Por otra parte, al valenciano, quando sea necesario, le corresponde el name:ca. Joan Montané [1] http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_dels_decrets_que_oficialitzen_els_top%C3%B2nims_en_valenci%C3%A0 2013/1/16 Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso sanc...@gmail.com Si debería ser así y ademas poner tambien el name:xx = Elx de las xx que correspondan al valenciano que ahora mismo no se cuales son El 16 de enero de 2013 14:01, Carlos Sanmartín Bustos carsa...@lavabit.com escribió: Me he dado cuenta de que las 4 ciudades más importantes de la Comunidad Valenciana tienen el nombre escrito en este formato, primero en valenciano / y luego en castellano. El nombre oficial al ser zonas valencianoparlantes sería en valenciano, no debería escribirse por ejemplo: name=Elx y name:es=Elche ? Así no se pierde información y no se hacen cosas raras ¿No? Saludos -- Carlos S. La Pizarra de Litox https://litox9.wordpress.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso - Sanchi Blog http://blog.jorgesanzs.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] València/Valencia
Vale, no tenía ni idea de que fuera así, la verdad es que es un poco absurdo. Lo de Castelló de la Plana / Castellón de la Plana parece una broma. Gracias por la aclaración. El 16/01/13 14:26, Joan Montané escribió: Hola, algunos municipios valencianos tienen el nombre oficial en bilíngüe, com en el País Vasco, por lo que, solo en estos casos, en name: debería ir la forma con barra, por mucho que me parezca una tontería eso de los topònimos oficiales bilíngües. Más info aquí [1] (en catalàn) Por otra parte, al valenciano, quando sea necesario, le corresponde el name:ca. Joan Montané [1] http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_dels_decrets_que_oficialitzen_els_top%C3%B2nims_en_valenci%C3%A0 2013/1/16 Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso sanc...@gmail.com mailto:sanc...@gmail.com Si debería ser así y ademas poner tambien el name:xx = Elx de las xx que correspondan al valenciano que ahora mismo no se cuales son El 16 de enero de 2013 14:01, Carlos Sanmartín Bustos carsa...@lavabit.com mailto:carsa...@lavabit.com escribió: Me he dado cuenta de que las 4 ciudades más importantes de la Comunidad Valenciana tienen el nombre escrito en este formato, primero en valenciano / y luego en castellano. El nombre oficial al ser zonas valencianoparlantes sería en valenciano, no debería escribirse por ejemplo: name=Elx y name:es=Elche ? Así no se pierde información y no se hacen cosas raras ¿No? Saludos -- Carlos S. La Pizarra de Litox https://litox9.wordpress.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso - Sanchi Blog http://blog.jorgesanzs.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Carlos S. La Pizarra de Litox https://litox9.wordpress.com/ ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] València/Valencia
2013/1/16 Carlos Sanmartín Bustos carsa...@lavabit.com Vale, no tenía ni idea de que fuera así, la verdad es que es un poco absurdo. Lo de Castelló de la Plana / Castellón de la Plana parece una broma. Gracias por la aclaración. A mandar, :) Este [2] otro enlace (en catalán también) tal vez sea más útil para diferenciar nombre oficial de nombre en valenciano. Hay que tener en cuenta que la Wikipedia no es una fuente primaria, pero ayuda a hacerse una idea. Joan Montané [2] http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_dels_municipis_del_Pa%C3%ADs_Valenci%C3%A0 ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
[Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, por ejemplo aquí en Bilbao se juntan Avenida, Kalea y Calle en un radio de 50 metros. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.25561lon=-2.936509zoom=18layers=M Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl En Burgos por el momento no tenemos ese problema ;-) Un saludo Óscar (alias cronoser) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
Sí, este tema es está tratando en otro hilo, y estamos trabajando en ello :) Probably sent from an Android phone ...or a free/libre web browser running on a GNU/Linux operating system Be free 2013/1/16 Óscar Zorrilla Alonso oscar_zorri...@hotmail.com Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, por ejemplo aquí en Bilbao se juntan Avenida, Kalea y Calle en un radio de 50 metros. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.25561lon=-2.936509zoom=18layers=M Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl En Burgos por el momento no tenemos ese problema ;-) Un saludo Óscar (alias cronoser) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Entonces los que hayáis podido hacer pruebas, ¿veis fácil de editar los errores a mano, que el resultado es lo mas simplificado posible (para ponder mantener la información) y que en la lista de imports podrían darlo por bueno? Saludos. El 16 de enero de 2013 12:42, Alejandro S. alejandro...@gmail.comescribió: Documentacion sobre codigos postales (zip code): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relationships#Relationship_Overview http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:postal_code 2013/1/16 Cruz Enrique Borges cruz.bor...@deusto.es: On Wednesday 16 January 2013 12:18:27 David Marín Carreño wrote: Pues para sacar el área del código postal, se puede tomar todas las parcelas con el mismo código postal, y crear un nuevo polígono con la unión de todas ellas, asignándole el addr:postcode. Eso es una ÑAPA de proporciones bíblicas. ¿seguro que esa información no están en algún repositorio de Open Data? A mi me suena un huevo de haberla visto en algún lado... -- Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández Email: cruz.bor...@deusto.es DeustoTech Energy Telefono: 944139000 ext.2052 Avda. Universidades, 24 48007 Bilbao, Spain ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Atentamente, Suárez ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Ander Pijoan Lamas Research Assistant, Deustotech Computer Science Engineer University of Deusto E-mail: ander.pij...@deusto.es Phone: +34 664471228 in: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=162888312 ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] València/Valencia
2013/1/16 Carlos Sanmartín Bustos carsa...@lavabit.com Vale, no tenía ni idea de que fuera así, la verdad es que es un poco absurdo. Lo de Castelló de la Plana / Castellón de la Plana parece una broma. Gracias por la aclaración. Se puede usar official_name = Elx / Elche http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name ademas de name = Elx, name:ca = Elx y name:es = Elche ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
Hola, Yo he procesado los datos del catastro de Cazalegas y Talavera y he dado solo un vistazo por encima a los archivos generados y sólo puedo decir ¡¡Fantástico Trabajo!! Hay ciertos errores, que la mayoría parecen ser del propio catastro, pero como bien dices, los ficheros generados son fáciles de revisar y editar a mano. Creo que esta vez no podrán poner muchas pegas. Espero poder dedicarle algo más de tiempo a ir revisando en detalle los ficheros generados. También tengo que ver cómo hacer la importación de los datos en zonas donde ya hay mucha información para no perder nada y dejar lo que esté mejor (por ejemplo, las calles y vías, están mejor las que se metieron a mano en el caso de Talavera que las del catastro). En definitiva, muchas gracias y felicidades por el magnífico trabajo. Un saludo, -- Antonio Navarro mailto:anto...@hunos.net mailto:antonio.navarro...@gmail.com mailto:antonio.nava...@hispalinux.es El 16 de enero de 2013 16:52, Ander Pijoan ander.pij...@deusto.esescribió: Entonces los que hayáis podido hacer pruebas, ¿veis fácil de editar los errores a mano, que el resultado es lo mas simplificado posible (para ponder mantener la información) y que en la lista de imports podrían darlo por bueno? Saludos. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [catastro] Previo de CAT2OSM2: Madrid en 5 minutos (!)
El 16 de enero de 2013 16:52, Ander Pijoan ander.pij...@deusto.esescribió: Entonces los que hayáis podido hacer pruebas, ¿veis fácil de editar los errores a mano, que el resultado es lo mas simplificado posible (para ponder mantener la información) y que en la lista de imports podrían darlo por bueno? Yo creo que sí. La edición manual se facilita bastante de esta manera. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México
Lista de talk-mx (OSM México), talk-es (OSM Español), Listas de Hackmitin México, y Lista del capítulo local de la comunidad hispanohablante de OSGeo: Quiero tratar un par de puntos: 1.- Sugiero que todos los interesados solicitemos nuestro ingreso a la Lista del capítulo local hispanohablante de OSGeo, en:_ http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/spanish, con el único fin de poder coordinarnos mejor, ya que se me está complicando esto de tratar de tener a varias listas enteradas de los comentarios. 2.- Respecto a OSGeo: OSGeo es una Fundación cuyo objetivo es Apoyar el desarrollo de software geoespacial de código abierto, así como promocionar su uso. *Sitio de OSGeo: http://osgeo.org *Sitio de la comunidad hispanohablante: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Cap%C3%ADtulo_Local_de_la_comunidad_hispanohablante 3.- Recuerdo que el lugar, hora, fecha y temas deberá ser acordado por la mayoría, es decir, los que estamos haciendo comunidad. En este momento algunos compañeros de la lista de Talk-es (OSM México) están a favor de que se haga la reunión de Geoinquietos en telemexhub, y otros del Hackmitin México, en los cuales me incluyo, queremos que sea en otro sitio que No hemos propuesto ninguno 4.- La fecha propuesta en Doodle es el sábado 9 de febrero y el 16 de febrero del presente. Pero el compañero Vitor de la lista de Talk-es (OSM México) propone el sábado 26 de enero: http://doodle.com/gfxdwn5e99akdnns 5.- Sugiero que comencemos también a plantear la orden del día que a mi parecer podemos irla poniendo en la wiki de Geoinquietos México DF, solo hay que registrarse en el sitio y editar: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Geoinquietos_M%C3%A9xico_DF Los invito a participar. Ulises El 15 de enero de 2013 20:23, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.comescribió: Hola Oscar: Pues como cualquiera que se registre puede editar la wiki no se si tenga sentido ser el administrador. Pero por el momento puede ser así. Saludos Ulises PPN (si tiene licencia CC así que siéntanse con libertar de usar, hacer y deshacer el PPN) El 15 de enero de 2013 15:35, oscar creatura elcrea...@googlemail.comescribió: Hola, Espero que no se acabe gestando en el Telmexhub, por otra parte PPN tú serias el administrador de la Wiki para mexico ?? seria lo más natural, dado que eres el que que ha forjado la propuesta. Creatura 2013/1/15 Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com Hola Karla: Un gusto que te sumes a la propuesta. Supero tus talleres de: Ushahidi y Crowdmap, Oracle Espacial, etc. Sólo que estoy casi seguro que much@s no estarán muy de acuerdo en que esto de Geoinquietos Mexico DF termine gestándose dentro del Telmex Hub. Así que me adelanto a que a la brevedad se agreguen otras propuestas, seguro hay otros lugares, desde un salón de cualquier facultad de la UNAM, UAM, hasta el algunos de los espacios autónomos cercanos al centro de la Ciudad de México, tales como El Cráter Invertido: http://craterinvertido.org/ Compas, propongan sitios y fechas. Yo propongo segundo sábado de febrero de 2013, lugar el volcán, que nadie me ha invitado, pero estaba suave el lugar. Saludos Ulises El 15 de enero de 2013 14:41, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com escribió: Copio tal cual: Karla Ivon Lopez Guillen kil...@gmail.com a través dehttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=esctx=mailanswer=1311182 openstreetmap.org 14:33 (Hace 7 minutos) para talk-mx, talk-mx Buenas tardes a todos!! Me encanta lo de formar el grupo Geoinquietos Ciudad de México. El lugar de las reuniones puede ser Telmex Hub en el Centro de la Ciudad, así es más fácil para todos poder llegar: www.telmexhub.mx También me apunto para dar algún curso como Ushahidi y Crowdmap, Oracle Espacial, etc. Estamos en contacto. Abrazos! Karla Enviado desde mi iPhone El 15 de enero de 2013 13:18, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com escribió: Hola listas, me disculpo por cruzar listas pronto acabará esta situación: Hola Samantha, Hola Alfredo, Oscar, Roland W., compas: Ya está cuajando esto del Geoinquietos Ciudad de México, que me han sugerido que mejor sea Geoinquietos México DF. Para muestra: 1.-Los de la lista de span...@lists.osgeo.org, que son de varios países, están apoyando mucho en la coordinación de los primeros pasos. El compañero Jorge Sanz, amablemente nos ayudó a editar la wiki de Geoniquietos México DF: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Geoinquietos_M%C3%A9xico_DF que esta dentro de http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Iniciativas_Locales; 2.-Los de la lista de OSM(OpenStreetMap) de México también hay un par de interesados, entre ellos el compañero Roland W Hardt quien dice: puedo aportar a la reunión con una plática de uno de diferentes temas (según preferencia), p.ej. SIG en general o en específico, Como usar un GPS eficientemente, Introducción a utilizar QuantumGIS o GeoServer, etc., u otras
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
Totalmente de acuerdo: Yo, en Galicia, tengo cada dos por tres que corregir calle por rúa en montón de poblaciones. Quizás, alguien con conocimientos suficientes, podría diseñar un bot para hacer esto automáticamente. Aunque creo que esto, o algo parecido, ya se discutió en un hilo aquí. R. Ávila. On 16/01/13 15:57, Óscar Zorrilla Alonso wrote: Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, por ejemplo aquí en Bilbao se juntan Avenida, Kalea y Calle en un radio de 50 metros. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.25561lon=-2.936509zoom=18layers=M Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl En Burgos por el momento no tenemos ese problema ;-) Un saludo Óscar (alias cronoser) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Por favor, non me envíe documentos con extensións .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, aínda podendoo facer, non os abro. Atendendo á lexislación vixente, empregue formatos estándares e abertos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Tipos_de_ficheros ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
El día 16 de enero de 2013 15:57, Óscar Zorrilla Alonso oscar_zorri...@hotmail.com escribió: Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, [...] Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl Y en Asturies, aunque el asturianu no sea oficial los topónimos sí que lo son, por lo que nos encontramos en una situación más compleja. Tenemos el nombre oficial, que puede estar en asturianu, castellano o ambos y sería el que va con la etiqueta name (Gijón/Xixón); el nombre en castellano, que usaría la etiqueta name:es (Gijón), y el nombre en asturianu que usa la etiqueta name:ast (Xixón). Incluso en la parte de Asturies de habla galega no se debería usar name:ast, sino name:gl (o eso creo) En resumen, un lio de los buenos :D Saludos -- Xuacu ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
Ojo con la programación de un bot para hacer eso, en Zaragoza tenemos una calle que se llama Calle Madres de la Plaza de Mayo. http://osm.org/go/b_8n052LU-- 2013/1/16 Rafael Avila Coya ravilac...@gmail.com Totalmente de acuerdo: Yo, en Galicia, tengo cada dos por tres que corregir calle por rúa en montón de poblaciones. Quizás, alguien con conocimientos suficientes, podría diseñar un bot para hacer esto automáticamente. Aunque creo que esto, o algo parecido, ya se discutió en un hilo aquí. R. Ávila. On 16/01/13 15:57, Óscar Zorrilla Alonso wrote: Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, por ejemplo aquí en Bilbao se juntan Avenida, Kalea y Calle en un radio de 50 metros. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.25561lon=-2.936509zoom=18layers=M Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl En Burgos por el momento no tenemos ese problema ;-) Un saludo Óscar (alias cronoser) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Por favor, non me envíe documentos con extensións .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, aínda podendoo facer, non os abro. Atendendo á lexislación vixente, empregue formatos estándares e abertos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Tipos_de_ficheros ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Nerín jne...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
En este caso, para esta corrección si, la pongo como ejemplo de calle con nombre que puede dar problemas. No se si hay calles con name tipo calle... / carrer... que al tratar de gestionarlas pudieran causar problemas en el ejemplo que he puesto. Saludos. El 16/01/2013 22:41, Rafael Avila Coya ravilac...@gmail.com escribió: ?? No pillo en qué haría mal el bot a esa calle. Al estar en Zaragoza y empezar por Calle la dejaría como está, ¿no? On 16/01/13 22:01, Jorge wrote: Ojo con la programación de un bot para hacer eso, en Zaragoza tenemos una calle que se llama Calle Madres de la Plaza de Mayo. http://osm.org/go/b_8n052LU-- 2013/1/16 Rafael Avila Coya ravilac...@gmail.com mailto:ravilac...@gmail.com Totalmente de acuerdo: Yo, en Galicia, tengo cada dos por tres que corregir calle por rúa en montón de poblaciones. Quizás, alguien con conocimientos suficientes, podría diseñar un bot para hacer esto automáticamente. Aunque creo que esto, o algo parecido, ya se discutió en un hilo aquí. R. Ávila. On 16/01/13 15:57, Óscar Zorrilla Alonso wrote: Hola; Me he fijado mapeando en comunidades autónomas con otro idioma oficial además del castellano que tan pronto te encuentras calles en castellano como en otro idioma, por ejemplo aquí en Bilbao se juntan Avenida, Kalea y Calle en un radio de 50 metros. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.25561lon=-2.936509zoom=18layers=M Desde aquí simplemente recordar a quienes editen por Galicia, País Vasco, Com. Valenciana, Cataluña e Islas Baleares que cuando pongan el nombre de las calles y/o POIs además de añadir el nombre name:es y name a secas añadan las siguientes etiquetas: - en Valencia/Cataluña/Islas Baleares habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:ca - en el País Vasco habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:eu - en Galicia habría que añadir la etiqueta: name:gl En Burgos por el momento no tenemos ese problema ;-) Un saludo Óscar (alias cronoser) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Por favor, non me envíe documentos con extensións .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, aínda podendoo facer, non os abro. Atendendo á lexislación vixente, empregue formatos estándares e abertos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Tipos_de_ficheros ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jorge Nerín jne...@gmail.com mailto:jne...@gmail.com ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Por favor, non me envíe documentos con extensións .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, aínda podendoo facer, non os abro. Atendendo á lexislación vixente, empregue formatos estándares e abertos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Tipos_de_ficheros ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
Cómo se cambia el nombre a una comunidad autónoma? Navarra oficialmente es Comunidad Foral de Navarra. Ese es el nombre que debe llevar, no? ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
[Talk-es] Fwd: [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México
Copio tal cual: -- Mensaje reenviado -- De: rafael organista mota rafaelorgm...@gmail.com Fecha: 15 de enero de 2013 22:16 Asunto: Re: [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México Para: hackmi...@listas.espora.org Hola Lista, Ulises, todxs los compas: Esta muy buena la propuesta, suena re-chevere. Suena de lujo que pueda ser en la segunda semana de febrero, yo ando en guerrero pero nos apuntamos para poder aprender mucho de esta propuesta que esta muy buena. Si en algo podemos ayudar, en la difusión y en el armado de post o cosas de esas para difundir; orale, le echamos, nomas que quede fija la fecha y el lugar. Saludos El 15 de enero de 2013 20:23, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.comescribió: Hola Oscar: Pues como cualquiera que se registre puede editar la wiki no se si tenga sentido ser el administrador. Pero por el momento puede ser así. Saludos Ulises PPN (si tiene licencia CC así que siéntanse con libertar de usar, hacer y deshacer el PPN) El 15 de enero de 2013 15:35, oscar creatura elcrea...@googlemail.comescribió: Hola, Espero que no se acabe gestando en el Telmexhub, por otra parte PPN tú serias el administrador de la Wiki para mexico ?? seria lo más natural, dado que eres el que que ha forjado la propuesta. Creatura 2013/1/15 Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com Hola Karla: Un gusto que te sumes a la propuesta. Supero tus talleres de: Ushahidi y Crowdmap, Oracle Espacial, etc. Sólo que estoy casi seguro que much@s no estarán muy de acuerdo en que esto de Geoinquietos Mexico DF termine gestándose dentro del Telmex Hub. Así que me adelanto a que a la brevedad se agreguen otras propuestas, seguro hay otros lugares, desde un salón de cualquier facultad de la UNAM, UAM, hasta el algunos de los espacios autónomos cercanos al centro de la Ciudad de México, tales como El Cráter Invertido: http://craterinvertido.org/ Compas, propongan sitios y fechas. Yo propongo segundo sábado de febrero de 2013, lugar el volcán, que nadie me ha invitado, pero estaba suave el lugar. Saludos Ulises El 15 de enero de 2013 14:41, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com escribió: Copio tal cual: Karla Ivon Lopez Guillen kil...@gmail.com a través dehttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=esctx=mailanswer=1311182 openstreetmap.org 14:33 (Hace 7 minutos) para talk-mx, talk-mx Buenas tardes a todos!! Me encanta lo de formar el grupo Geoinquietos Ciudad de México. El lugar de las reuniones puede ser Telmex Hub en el Centro de la Ciudad, así es más fácil para todos poder llegar: www.telmexhub.mx También me apunto para dar algún curso como Ushahidi y Crowdmap, Oracle Espacial, etc. Estamos en contacto. Abrazos! Karla Enviado desde mi iPhone El 15 de enero de 2013 13:18, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com escribió: Hola listas, me disculpo por cruzar listas pronto acabará esta situación: Hola Samantha, Hola Alfredo, Oscar, Roland W., compas: Ya está cuajando esto del Geoinquietos Ciudad de México, que me han sugerido que mejor sea Geoinquietos México DF. Para muestra: 1.-Los de la lista de span...@lists.osgeo.org, que son de varios países, están apoyando mucho en la coordinación de los primeros pasos. El compañero Jorge Sanz, amablemente nos ayudó a editar la wiki de Geoniquietos México DF: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Geoinquietos_M%C3%A9xico_DF que esta dentro de http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Iniciativas_Locales; 2.-Los de la lista de OSM(OpenStreetMap) de México también hay un par de interesados, entre ellos el compañero Roland W Hardt quien dice: puedo aportar a la reunión con una plática de uno de diferentes temas (según preferencia), p.ej. SIG en general o en específico, Como usar un GPS eficientemente, Introducción a utilizar QuantumGIS o GeoServer, etc., u otras temas. 3.-Los de OSM de España creo que nada mas nos leen o quizás nos sigan con sus miradas. 4.-Y la banda autogestiva de lista del hackmitin@listas.espora.orgestá muy interesada. :D ***empezar a pensar en cómo cuándo dónde? :)*, dice Samantha: para decidirlo otros Geoinquietos utilizan Doodle, ejemplo: http://doodle.com/gfxdwn5e99akdnns Si conocen una mejor forma de organizar la fecha, hora, quizás con el mentado Pad de riseup, o por la wiki de Geoinquitos México DF y pudieran echar la mano en eso sería muy buen. A mi particularmente me gustaría que la primera reunión fuera el segundo sábado de Febrero de 2013, pero es cosa de encontrar lo que más convenga a todos. También, como dice Samantha, hay que ver lo del cartel. Saludos cordiales Ulises El 15 de enero de 2013 00:10, Samantha CG cgsaman...@gmail.comescribió: Hola! Me Gusta mucho la idea! Podríamos hacer un cartel para promover en otros espacios... empezar a pensar en cómo cuándo dónde? :) Buena noche!!! El 14 de enero de 2013 15:13, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.com
[Talk-es] Fwd: [Spanish] Fwd: [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México
Copio tal cual: -- Mensaje reenviado -- De: Juan Jose Del Toro jdeltoro1...@gmail.com Fecha: 16 de enero de 2013 20:48 Asunto: Re: [Spanish] Fwd: [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México Para: Capítulo Local de la comunidad hispano-hablante span...@lists.osgeo.org Cc: talk...@openstreetmap.org, talk-es@openstreetmap.org Para quienes estamos lejos del DF podriamos utilizar algo para participar a distancia? -- ¡Saludos! / Greetings! Juan José Del Toro M. jdeltoro1...@gmail.com Guadalajara, Jalisco MEXICO ___ Spanish mailing list http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/spanish http://es.osgeo.org http://twitter.com/osgeoes ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] [Hackmitin] Fwd: [Spanish] Fwd: Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México
Copio tal cual: NOTA: Me parece que debería excluir la lista de talk-es@openstreetmap.orgya que siento que como que no hay nadie de allá con interés en esto. El 16 de enero de 2013 22:05, Samantha CG cgsaman...@gmail.com escribió: Hola a Todos, Varios puntos: 1. Me parece buena idea lo de conjuntar las listas en* OSGeo*, veamos cómo resulta. Como sea, chido por el esfuerzo Ulises :) 2. Mientras tanto, prefiero la fecha del *16 de febrero*. Así nos daría tiempo de discutir el orden del día, organizarnos y difundir 3. Con respecto al *cartel*: si les late, puedo chambear en una propuesta de cartel este fin de semana y se las comparto para que la opinen y le demos forma... 4. Sobre el *Telmex Hub*, he leído todos los argumentos de porque no es buena idea y me uno, siempre hay una mejor forma de hacer las cosas! Lamentablemente no tengo propuestas de lugares, pero veo que ya han sacado sus contactos, chingón! Ahora, cómo hacemos para contactar a esa banda? Digo, para no aturdirlos con mil peticiones... ja Saludos, El 16 de enero de 2013 21:04, Ulises Ibarra ulisesmartiniba...@gmail.comescribió: Copio tal cual: -- Mensaje reenviado -- De: Juan Jose Del Toro jdeltoro1...@gmail.com Fecha: 16 de enero de 2013 20:48 Asunto: Re: [Spanish] Fwd: [Hackmitin] Convocatoria Geoinquietos Ciudad de México Para: Capítulo Local de la comunidad hispano-hablante span...@lists.osgeo.org Cc: talk...@openstreetmap.org, talk-es@openstreetmap.org Para quienes estamos lejos del DF podriamos utilizar algo para participar a distancia? -- ¡Saludos! / Greetings! Juan José Del Toro M. jdeltoro1...@gmail.com Guadalajara, Jalisco MEXICO ___ Spanish mailing list http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/spanish http://es.osgeo.org http://twitter.com/osgeoes ___ Hackmitin mailing list hackmi...@listas.espora.org http://listas.espora.org/mailman/listinfo/hackmitin -- *Samantha Camacho-Guadarrama * ___ Hackmitin mailing list hackmi...@listas.espora.org http://listas.espora.org/mailman/listinfo/hackmitin ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nombres bilingües
al final en qué se ha quedado? en poner el nombre oficial, no? Pues el nombre oficial es, por ejemplo, Gijón/Xixón o Alicante/Alacant o Bilbao o Galicia o Castelló de la Plana/Castellón de la Plana o ... y que a parte se ponga name:es o name:gl o name:ca saludos ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-at] maxspeed
On 16.01.2013 06:58, Erwin Pleyer wrote: Nach Michael Maier (am 5.1.) bist du der zweite, der das als kompliziert darstellt. Achtung, dabei ging es um Entwickler von Routinganwendungen, denen ist mehr zuzumuten als deiner Mutter. ich habe es nun endlich geschafft, meine Mutter (65) für OSM zu begeistern. Sie geht bei ihren Spaziergängen durch ihren Wohnort, erfasst dabei ein paar Hausnummern und trägt auch ab und zu mal eine Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkung ein! Dabei war es schon nicht leicht ihr zu erklären, dass dieser Wert unter maxspeed als separate Eigenschaft auf einen Teil vom Weg gesetzt gehört. Und ich denke, so wie meine Mutter erfassen der große Teil von mittlerweilen über 1.000.000 OSM-Usern. Sie wollen Spass an der Sache haben und nicht komplizierte source:maxspeed=AT:, maxspeed:AT:motorway=*, usw. Tags nachlesen. Englisch ist auch eine Fremdsprache für viele. Nehmt nicht durch komplizierte Tags vielen der Erfasser die Freude, mit dem Rad durch die Gegend zu fahren und Verkehrsschilder zu fotografieren und sie anschließend einzutragen, denn ich finde, ihr seid auf dem besten Weg dorthin! OSM wird tatsächlch immer komplizierter, diese Entwicklung ist nicht aufzuhalten. Es ist für Anfänger kaum noch möglich, zu editieren ohne etwas kaputt zu machen. Stichwort Relationen... maxspeed ist da nicht so das Problem, das lässt sich leicht korrigieren. On 16.01.2013 08:01, Martin Vonwald (imagic) wrote: muss dir aber zu 100% Recht geben in allem was du geschrieben hast! Selbst wenn man sich selbst mit den kompliziertesten Tagging-Schemas beschäftigt, darf man nie den Durchschnittsmapper vergessen und muss immer darauf achten, diesen Personen nichts wegzunehmen. Keep it simple muss immer funktionieren, die komplizierten Details müssen durch zusätzliche, unabhängige Tags dargestellt werden. Komisch dass grad du das schreibst, hast du doch mit dem Spurmapping und dem damit verbundenen Zerstückeln der Straßen nicht unwesentlich dazu beigetragen, dass alles viel komplizierter wird. -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] maxspeed
On 15.01.2013 23:51, Friedrich Volkmann wrote: On 15.01.2013 20:42, Norbert Wenzel wrote: der tolle Router, der sich ohnehin auskennt und sich laufend ändernde und umformatierte Wikiseiten parsed um diese Limits in seiner Datenbank zu halten Nach Michael Maier (am 5.1.) bist du der zweite, der das als kompliziert darstellt. Es ist weniger kompliziert als eine kontinuierliche, trotzdem relativ langweilige Arbeit, die bei entsprechend vielen nationalen Bestimmungen (bzw. vom Router abgedeckten Nationen) durchaus aufwändig werden kann und dem Routerprogrammierer erstmal nichts bringt. Er programmiert schließlich einen Router und keinen Wikiscraper. Hier würde es helfen, wenn Leute, die sich gut mit dem Wiki auskennen und bspw. regelmäßig diese relativ undefinierten Wikieinträge in ein definiertes Format bringen und diese Datei zum Download anbieten. Wenn es ein stabiles Interface gibt wird man vermutlich viel mehr Programmierer dazu bewegen können diese Daten auch zu verwenden. Der wichtigere Teil meiner Mail war mir aber weniger auf den Arbeitsaufwand der Datenextraktion aus dem Wiki hinzuweisen, sondern, dass es einem guten Router doch möglich sein sollte, diese Information unabhängig von einem eingetragenen maxspeed=Zahl zu verwenden. D.h. es sollte in OSM möglich sein aus Rücksicht auf Erwins Mutter und alle anderen Gelegenheitsmapper maxspeed=Zahl immer zu mappen (auch wenns ev. redundant und/oder ungenau ist) und die legale Höchstgeschwindigkeit als maxspeed:AT:wherever einzutragen, ohne dass es einen Gelegenheitsmapper oder den Routerprogrammierer stört. Das ist dann vielleicht akademisch gesehen net immer alles perfekt, aber es ermöglicht doch i.A. eine gute Annäherung an die Realität ohne dabei für Gelegenheitsmapper und Profis ein wirkliches Hindernis darzustellen. Es gibt ein Proposal (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Defaults) für Relationen type=defaults. Das zielt darauf ab, das Nachziehen automatisierbar zu machen. War mir unbekannt, danke für den Link. Norbert ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] maxspeed
Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 09:28:54 +0100 Von: Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at An: talk-at@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] maxspeed On 16.01.2013 06:58, Erwin Pleyer wrote: Nach Michael Maier (am 5.1.) bist du der zweite, der das als kompliziert darstellt. Achtung, dabei ging es um Entwickler von Routinganwendungen, denen ist mehr zuzumuten als deiner Mutter. Ich glaube erstens nicht, dass Du beurteilen kansst, was man meiner Mutter zumuten kann, denn Du kennst sie gar nicht. Zweitens möchte ich behaupten, dass meine Mutter die Mehrheit von OSM-Usern hinter sich hat. Ich glaube halt, dass Ihr im Bereich von Wien dann eine Routenberechnung haben werdet, die auf die Minute sagen kann, wie lange man braucht, schon möglich. Im einem großen Teil vom restlichen Österreich sind jedoch noch nicht einmal die normalen Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkungen erfasst. Wie gesagt, OSM lebt von den einfachen Erfassern vor Ort, nicht von den Entwicklern von Routinganwendung, die sind Nutznieser von den einfachen Erfassern, ohne die geht es nicht, nicht wenn die Daten aktuell und möglichst vollständig sein sollen. Schönen Tag noch Erwin ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] maxspeed
On 16.01.2013 10:27, Erwin Pleyer wrote: Ich glaube erstens nicht, dass Du beurteilen kansst, was man meiner Mutter zumuten kann, denn Du kennst sie gar nicht. Wenn ihr was Kompliziertes zuzumuten ist, dann ergibt dein voriges Mail keinen Sinn (Dabei war es schon nicht leicht ihr zu erklären ...) Bitte werde dir einmal klar, was du eigentlich sagen willst. -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
