Re: draft of press release
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 14:20 -0400, Stas Bekman wrote: Philip M. Gollucci wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: Are you talking about separate pools of interpreters perl vhost? Is that really working? I donn't think is works yet as this need will use the perlchild MPM which isn't finished and isn't currently being actively developed by httpd. Not quite. It does "work" even with the prefork mpm. But there are issues. If I say something like "Improved isolation of servers for easier use in ISPs" is that overstating it? My concern is that an ISP would ask us about this after seeing the release and we'd look foolish saying, "well, it doesn't really work well enough to use yet." Separate pools of interpreters per vhost work, but it has no relation to the ISPs whose problem is a secure separation between users. But perchild (and its equivalents) aren't there yet, though it has nothing to do with mod_perl (it's on the apache playground). Though I've heard that metux mpm[1] is used by some people in production. I haven't tried it, so I can't tell if it works under mod_perl. [1] http://www.metux.de/mpm/en/?patpage= -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Joe Schaefer wrote: Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Let's ask Joe. Joe, what do you think, should we announce libapreq as a part of mod_perl 2.0 press release? To me the main obstacle is that it is not released yet. I don't see the harm in including it. libapreq2 is beta-quality now, people are already using it, and I expect an official 2.06 release to emerge sometime in (early) June. In which case go for it Perrin. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Monday 23 May 2005 1:43 pm, Stas Bekman wrote: Perrin, one more thing you may want to mention. Quoting Robert Spier: qpsmtpd (qmail-perl-smtpd, which really doesn't have much to do with qmail anymore) http://qpsmtpd.develooper.com/ contains a mod_perl 2 backend -- not for HTTP -- but to do SMTP. Apache 2 was re-architected to be more protocol agnostic - so you can use it for almost any connection based protocol. I know about that one, but I thought the MailChannels story was better. +1 -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Philip M. Gollucci wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: Are you talking about separate pools of interpreters perl vhost? Is that really working? I donn't think is works yet as this need will use the perlchild MPM which isn't finished and isn't currently being actively developed by httpd. Not quite. It does "work" even with the prefork mpm. But there are issues. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Monday 23 May 2005 2:49 am, Stas Bekman wrote: should mention that input can be filtered as well. What's a good example application for that? I'm not aware of one in perl, but ssl is implemented as an input filter. But may be just mentioning will be fine. * Extensible high-speed HTTP request parsing library, libapreq2, already in use by other Apache 2 modules. does it really belong here? I only included it because I had an old e-mail from you asking me to. I'll take it out. Hmm, I'm very inconsistent, am I? :) Let's ask Joe. Joe, what do you think, should we announce libapreq as a part of mod_perl 2.0 press release? To me the main obstacle is that it is not released yet. May be add a long list of companies using mod_perl? some names from our site and more from http://www.masonhq.com/?MasonPoweredSites ? I don't want to make a long list out of it because it could start to sound desperate, but a few more might fit. +1 -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Perrin, one more thing you may want to mention. Quoting Robert Spier: qpsmtpd (qmail-perl-smtpd, which really doesn't have much to do with qmail anymore) http://qpsmtpd.develooper.com/ contains a mod_perl 2 backend -- not for HTTP -- but to do SMTP. Apache 2 was re-architected to be more protocol agnostic - so you can use it for almost any connection based protocol. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: Apache Software Foundation Releases mod_perl 2.0, Bringing Full Apache 2 API to Perl Developers Should we call this mod_perl 2.0 or more precisely mod_perl 2.0.0 ? 2.0 is perfect. I'd try and mention something about APR as well in there. Not too much, but some. Hmm, yes, but that might be confusing. It allows you to run apps outside Apache :) This release has received extensive testing, both from automated tests built with the new Apache::Test framework and from users. mod_perl's test suite now includes over more than 2500 individual functionnal tests, compared to mod_perl 1's modest 400 ... drop the mp1 comparison. just keep the first half One thing I'd like to see too is is? end of transmission? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: draft of press release
.masonhq.com/?MasonPoweredSites ? Because the project is open source and free to participate in, many modules compatible with mod_perl 2.0 are already available. In addition, Perl brings it's famously extensive CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archive Network) to the table, putting libraries for database interaction, XML manipulation, HTML templating, and everything else developers need to build modern web sites at their fingertips. For more information, visit the mod_perl web site at http://perl.apache.org/. About the Apache Software Foundation: The Apache Software Foundation provides organizational, legal, and financial support for the Apache open-source software projects. Formerly known as the Apache Group, the Foundation incorporated as a membership- based, not-for-profit corporation to ensure that the Apache projects continue to exist beyond the participation of individual volunteers, to enable contributions of intellectual property and financial support, and to provide a vehicle for limiting legal exposure while participating in open-source projects. For more information on the Apache Software Foundation, please see www.apache.org. Perrin++! Thanks for doing this work, Perrin! -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Perrin Harkins wrote: Hi all, Just wanted to report that I have been having an easy time gathering good stories from business users of mp2 to include in the press release. I will try to get all of them to contribute success stories as well. Perrin++ -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: About putting the blame on other shoulders
Issac Goldstand wrote: [...] After all, users must set up seperate Apache distributions for mp 1 and 2. When you think about it, it's really a 2 way relationship: you're "importing the Apache API into Perl", as much as you're "embedding the Perl interpreter into Apache". Just like you can't use one Apache/mod_perl with two installations of Perl (say 5.6 and 5.8 on mod_perl1), it's fair to demand that you shouldn't use two versions of Apache/mod_perl (1.3/2.x) with one version of Perl. Chances are that a majority of people with mod_perl1/2 on the same machine are developers, and porting things over (or maintaining modules for both, or something else which is intelligent) - they'll all know how to install both in parallell "the hard way" (eg, setting up 2 perl installations); the majority of the non-developers are likely poor sysadmins who don't quite understand what they're getting themselves into with parallel installations, and we possibly shouldn't be giving them a trivial way to do it. Unfortunately thanks to Randal, people are now totally confused. Issac, this is not the problem we are trying to solve. The problem is that PAUSE indexes only one version of a package name. Forget all the 'use Apache2' and other issues for now. There are all minor issues, compared to the indexing problem. Maybe I'm completly misunderstanding why Stas put all the effort into his framework to support; maybe my objections make no sense. But in any case, please STOP ARGUING - you're making a public spectacle that's gonna bash Perl in general as much as mod_perl specifically You can send special thanks to Randal, who in the thread asking to help to test the upcoming realease to spot any problems, suggests the opposite: http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=133957&threshold=0&commentsort=0&tid=145&mode=nested&cid=11186211 Many of you sound like offended six year olds, and it's going to become embarassing. One of the big points of Perl is TMTOWTDI - there isn't supposed to be "one way to do it", and just because everyone (myself included) is being lazy and not setting up dual Perl installations, since Stas was nice enough to provide a rudimentary workaround for it, you can't expect Stas's workaround to be "perfect" - he's got enough to deal with with mod_perl development without having to deal with how to fix Perl/CPAN's inability to support installation of multiple versions of modules. And to give the right credits, it's not 'Stas' framework', there is a group of developers working on this. And it wasn't even me who wrote most of the things and workarounds. The credits should really go to Doug MacEachern. I just happen to push things forward at the moment, where others have left. And somebody else will do that later on. modperl is not a one man's project. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: About putting the blame on other shoulders
Cure wrote: Everybody needs to "STEP BACK" and realize how much work and soul Stas has put into mod_perl. He deserves A LOT OF CREDIT. Keep up the Good work Stas. Thanks Cure, for the kind words... but we are talking about a different kind of credit here. Andreas has put just as much work and soul if not more into PAUSE/CPAN. I was talking about the credits of actually trying to resolve the current conflict, rather than just trying to make someone else do the work. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: About putting the blame on other shoulders
Andreas J Koenig wrote: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:09:07 -0500, Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> Will it not also affect us who build mod_perl applications and want >> an easy-to-use installer to just work for people who download our >> software? Frankly, I don't think that it should be fine for just the >> dedicated mod_perl developer. This is one place where PHP is kicking >> the crap out of us. > us == perl, once PAUSE is fixed, and CPAN clients are adjusted, it will > just work. Stas, please stop propagating this fairy tale. The danger is, that people will believe you. This I call unfair propaganda as it tries to put the blame on somebody else's shoulders. That's not a very promising strategy to solve problems. Listen carefully: it is very unlikely that PAUSE and CPAN get ''''fixed'''' as you call it. There is no solution at hand and 4 people who you know well and who in turn know the problem domain very well have agreed and have told you so. So please stop telling untruth. Andreas, what exactly do you call untruth? My attempt to make PAUSE/CPAN better and accomodate the growing community needs? Why is that untruth? It's not a danger that people will believe me, it's a hope. If enough people believe in that may be things will change. Things shouldn't be cast in stone and they should evolve as the world evolve. I truly don't understand why you refuse to believe that CPAN/PAUSE needs to grow. Re: About putting the blame on other shoulders It's not putting blame on other shoulders. It's an attempt to actually solve things. You know very well, that I didn't just say it's PAUSE/CPAN problem. I've spent hours trying to find a solution. I've even found a person who have agreed to implement the required changes. And all you can say: "put the blame on other shoulders"? thanks so much for giving me so much credit. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Slashdot | Help Test mod_perl 2 Release Candidates
David Wheeler wrote: On Dec 27, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Stas Bekman wrote: You mean Apache::TestMB. Yeah, that ole thing. :-) I know someone who's name is David who can easily write a patch for this. That bastard is too lazy to work on it. ;-) Where is the bucket with cold water? wait, it's full of snow now :) I haven't even noticed ModPerl::MM. I guess that would be because I haven't played with mod_perl2 yet. Hrm...can you tell me what, exactly, it does? It doesn't seem to have any documentation. I think all you need to do is to write an equivalent of WriteMakefile (and some other bits). The rest of the stuff in it, is a painful exercise of overriding ExtUtils::MakeMaker MY:: methods. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Slashdot | Help Test mod_perl 2 Release Candidates
Stas Bekman wrote: David Wheeler wrote: On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:36 AM, Geoffrey Young wrote: the only kink here would be third-party CPAN modules for only mp2 - those are _required_ to use ModPerl::MM::WriteMakefile (which knows to install into Apache2/ if that's where mp2 was installed) instead of ExtUtils::MakeMaker::WriteMakefile. while I've tried to do my best here with a bunch of modules and perl.com articles, perhaps this point hasn't been clear enough to the masses and that should be addressed. Crap, I don't think that Apache::TestMM knows about this. You mean Apache::TestMB. How do we make sure that those of us who use Module::Build can get our modules installed in the right place? I know someone who's name is David who can easily write a patch for this. David, it should really be: ModPerl::MB and Apache::TestMB should use it. Of course ModPerl::MB doesn't exist yet. Wait, what this has to do with Apache-Test at all? It should be ModPerl::MB (like ModPerl::MM). Or did you mean that Apache::TestMB doesn't try to load Apache2.pm? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Slashdot | Help Test mod_perl 2 Release Candidates
David Wheeler wrote: On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:36 AM, Geoffrey Young wrote: the only kink here would be third-party CPAN modules for only mp2 - those are _required_ to use ModPerl::MM::WriteMakefile (which knows to install into Apache2/ if that's where mp2 was installed) instead of ExtUtils::MakeMaker::WriteMakefile. while I've tried to do my best here with a bunch of modules and perl.com articles, perhaps this point hasn't been clear enough to the masses and that should be addressed. Crap, I don't think that Apache::TestMM knows about this. You mean Apache::TestMB. How do we make sure that those of us who use Module::Build can get our modules installed in the right place? I know someone who's name is David who can easily write a patch for this. David, it should really be: ModPerl::MB and Apache::TestMB should use it. Of course ModPerl::MB doesn't exist yet. well, perhaps. I can see how it would really affect users who rely heavily on the CPAN shell and perldoc, but I don't think it's as much of an issue for people used to using wget and the online docs. so, in other words, it probably affects the casual user more than the dedicated mod_perl application developer. but that's just my suspicion. in either case, something should be done to make things right. Will it not also affect us who build mod_perl applications and want an easy-to-use installer to just work for people who download our software? Frankly, I don't think that it should be fine for just the dedicated mod_perl developer. This is one place where PHP is kicking the crap out of us. us == perl, once PAUSE is fixed, and CPAN clients are adjusted, it will just work. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Slashdot | Help Test mod_perl 2 Release Candidates
Geoffrey Young wrote: I don't think we expect CPAN to grok Apache2, just the local filesystem and @INC. but you're right, the entire perldoc/CPAN/@INC thing is a real issue. don't forget that we supply mp2doc which works around this issue. what I think really needs to happen is that there should be a common way for all things perl to deal with this issue - one that scales easily to many, many versions and that common perl tools understand. if one is developed mod_perl would certainly follow it. cpan-discuss@perl.org is where this specific issue seems to come and go, so perhaps that is the best place to sort it all out. This list is very quiet... http://www.mail-archive.com/cpan-discuss@perl.org/index.html#00023 but it's probably the best place, since all people who aren't genuinely interested in improving CPAN aren't there. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Slashdot | Help Test mod_perl 2 Release Candidates
My submission to /.org made it to the Apache section: <http://apache.slashdot.org/apache/04/12/25/1414211.shtml?tid=145&tid=2> It's about asking to help testing the mp2-RCs. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: slashdot php article
allan juul wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 07:56 +0100, allan juul wrote: it would be cool if it somehow somehwhere were more "visible" for everybody. for instance, if ASF on the menu on http://apache.org/ had a big fat checked mark and the words "Apache2 compatible" next to Perl, Jakarta or which ever was compatible with Apache2 (obviously many of these menuitems are not httpd- related) PHP is just as compatible with apache 2 as mod_perl 2 is. The threading problems are in the libraries, which is where Perl's threading problems are as well. aha - hmm, if that's the case why aren't *we* worried about people upgrading to Apache2 like the PHP folks apparently are, as seen in the slashdot article ? IOW, whats the big difference in the mod_perl community making an upgrade suggestion versus PHP making a non-upgrade suggestion if "PHP is just as compatible with apache 2 as mod_perl 2 is" ? [sorry for getting a bit off topic here, but i'm just getting a little bit worried that the PHP folks actually are right here] They are right. But there is not much to worry about. Those problems aren't modperl ones, but mostly CPAN modules' ones. Once people will discover problems they will fix those. mod_perl2 is probably the first real product that will give a real test to CPAN modules under threads. That's said I think there are a few problems to solve in modperl, but we will get there and fix those as soon as they are discovered, so again nothing to worry about. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: slashdot php article
also, i don't know if this true, but i like the idea of mod_perl being an Apache module more than a perl module. And i like the idea of mod_perl versions following Apache versions. So when Apache releases Apache 3.0 [which surely will be a major release], mod_perl3 will follow in the footsteps. it sort of gives the impression that mod_perl is a official professional partner I don't think we will have another choice. though if Apache 2.2 will be made possible to work with the current mp2, there is no reason to release mp2.2, unless it'll require Apache 2.2 to work. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: slashdot php article
Jayce^ wrote: So, today's slashdot actually had a discussion on php problems with apache 2. Seems like something worth capitalizing on for mod_perl. Sure, a lot of the problems mentioned are the same one you guys have been fixing before calling mp2 stable (threading issues, etc), but might as well point out that they are being addressed with mod_perl, and not php :) I won't rush to make a statement that we have had those problems solved. We have too few people who use mp2 with threads. I think threaded mp2 is not ready yet for the prime time. I could be wrong, but at least we don't have enough tests to be very sure of anything. BTW, most of these discussed problems are unrelated to php or modperl, but will hit modperl just as it hits php. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Perrin, I think this is a nice summary of libapreq2 Joe just posted that can be included in the PR as an incentive to upgrade to mp2. Original Message Subject: Re: libapreq2 upload question Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:26:55 -0500 From: Joe Schaefer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: modperl@perl.apache.org References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "eps com estem" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [...] > One last question, would you use libapreq2 to handle all GET > and POST data or only the multipart-POST data?? It's designed to be usable for all GET / POST data. The Content-Types it currently understands are application/x-www-form-urlencoded multipart/form-data multipart/related The first two are what HTML forms typically use, but we've also laid enough groundwork within libapreq2 to support newer specs like XForms and WHATWG once browsers start implementing them. libapreq2 provides a C API to extend/modify the parser list, so you can even extend it yourself if apreq-dev@ isn't extending it fast enough for you. > I mean, what's the intention of libapreq to be? libapreq2 is intended to provide a common request parsing library for all apache2 modules (not just a "faster CGI.pm"). There are already a few C modules (mod_spin is a nice example) that use libapreq2. The upshot is that such modules will all share the *parsed* POST data, without stealing the *raw* POST data from other modules. -- Joe Schaefer -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Tom Gazzini wrote: [...] Any ideas how to fix that situation? go after the old articles and ask to change them? I wouldn't recommend that method (sorry, can't tell if you're being sarcastic on email). I'm not sure myself. But every time I say/hear 'rewrite the history' I think "1984". So I prefer to think that it was a sarcastic suggestion. I was involved in a similar media push a while ago, and trying to get webmasters to update article content is like trying to cut off a hydra's heads. There's so many mirrored and cached site abounding they just keep cropping up everywhere. If you do it this way, expect it to take about a year before you come close to cleaning everything up. An alternative way would be to push out articles on the internet that promote the READINESS of mod_perl2 for production envs. (If indeed, it is ready - is it?). I'm not using it myself in production, since I don't have one at the moment. But based on other people's comments on the users list it definitely is. By judicious use of keywords in these articles, you can try and ensure that they get to the top of search engine listings. So make sure that any press releases you do get links to high profile sites, and contain good keywords. Otherwise, I fear that as more people move to apache2, the "mod_perl2 is not ready" articles will increasingly push people towards the competition. Sure, writing new articles is a good idea. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Tom Gazzini wrote: Can we collect enough for a NY Times ad? :) http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=5781 Making the NY Times is one thing. However, I think that one thing you guys should keep your eyes on whilst doing this press release is search engine penetration - how high up will the article get when someone types in the most common keywords (mod_perl, perl apache, perl, apache, php or perl, etc). The reason I say this is that, when I first started researching mod_perl, about 1.5 short years ago, search engines often led me to very helpful articles on how to install/configure mod_perl, but these were frequently emblazoned with the alarming qualifier "DO NOT USE MOD_PERL 2 IN A PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT" or words to that effect. and lest you've forgotten: http://web.archive.org/web/20030604112031/http://beaucox.com/mason/mason-wit h-apmp2-mini-HOWTO.htm The problem is that these articles are all still around, and in particular they are associated with otherwise otherwise highly marketable software like Mason and Embperl. IMHO, these qualifiers play a fairly significant role in the decline in mod_perl usage stats we've been seeing in the last few months. Any ideas how to fix that situation? go after the old articles and ask to change them? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Frank Wiles wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:15:14 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Will there be a problem if the press release is done a week or 2 weeks after the release? what difference does it make? I would say we want the press release to be as close to the real release date as possible. I would be afraid of /. picking up on the release via the list or the website and it getting around the Internet and then having a press release about it 2 weeks later. If other sites get the word out in too much of advance of the press release then their words are what spread and not ours. It would also water down the effect, if a news organization slightly covered the release after reading about it somewhere online they aren't likely to cover it again when they receive the release. OK, that makes sense to me. Thanks Frank. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Fri, 2004-12-17 at 17:15 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: Will there be a problem if the press release is done a week or 2 weeks after the release? what difference does it make? No difference at all, as far as I'm concerned. Same here, in fact I think it's even better to make it later to make two waves (the first wave coming from the usual announcement). -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Frank Wiles wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:45:13 -0500 Perrin Harkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 17:30 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: So if someone could volunteer to lead the effort of satisfying the listed below requirements and prepare the press release, that would be really helpful. I'll take care of it. I'm assuming we won't be doing the release until January. Has anyone thought about whether we should do it on the actual release date or a day or two later? I would vote for doing it the next day, to make sure there are no problems with CPAN propagation, etc. I second that! Should we use one of the press release blasting services to send it out? I'd be willing to chip in some $$$ for it if everyone agrees that it would be useful. Can we collect enough for a NY Times ad? :) http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=5781 -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: making the Press Release
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 17:30 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: So if someone could volunteer to lead the effort of satisfying the listed below requirements and prepare the press release, that would be really helpful. I'll take care of it. yay, perrin++ I'm assuming we won't be doing the release until January. I believe so. but you never know. Has anyone thought about whether we should do it on the actual release date or a day or two later? I would vote for doing it the next day, to make sure there are no problems with CPAN propagation, etc. Will there be a problem if the press release is done a week or 2 weeks after the release? what difference does it make? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
making the Press Release
ement? Why will the public care about what you have to say? Think about this carefully - because this will impact what content we present and how we present it. Answer the following for us (as clearly and without jargon as possible). a. My release is important because: i. X ii. Y iii.Z b. Reasons why people will care about this release: i. A ii. B iii.C 3. Who is the audience? Who are you trying to communicate with? After all, a press release is a codified method of communicating with a large audience. Are you targeting business media? Business decision makers? End Users? Tech Developers? Answering this question as thoroughly as you can is important because it will help us tailor the appropriate message for your target audience. What are your metrics for judging the success of this release? (I.e. If 3 major tech websites pick this up, it will be successful. If 2 major business papers pick this up it will be successful. If our web page hits go up by 50%, etc.) 4. What timeframe are you looking at? Is there an absolutely rigid date? (I.e. Coinciding with a conference, or a release date) If so, please let us know. If your timeframe is more flexible, inform us of that as well. In fact, if you have a release idea that is very 'general' and not tied to any fixed event (i.e. A general position statement on the state of your industry/category), we're still happy to work with you. 5. Are there quotes you would like to have represented in the release? We can help you contact the people you would want to have quoted, and work on drafting these quotes. 6. Has your PMC talked with press in the past that were interested in your project? Give us a list of these names, if available, and we will contact them for you. 7. Finally, who do you want to be the primary contacts for this release? There may be media who want to ask follow up questions. Please provide us with name, title, short bio, email, and phone number. -- Susan Wu PRC Committee [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FAQ (WAS: misc advocacy ideas)
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Wed, 2004-12-15 at 14:38 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: I think you are talking about something like that: http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/frequent.html That's a pretty short page. Maybe we could fill it out with some of the other FAQs that Allan listed and just re-title it as the FAQ. Yes, all I was trying to say that someone has suggested a similar idea before and that's how that page was started. As you can see it didn't quite get off the ground. But I think this is exactly what Allan has on his mind. Allan, if you want to take a shot at it, I'll edit it for you and put it up. We can put it up somewhere else for review first if that makes people more comfortable with it. Not really, just start adding those things, no need to slow the progress on that mini-project. And it shouldn't be too hard to give Allan commit access if there are many patches from Allan. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FAQ (WAS: misc advocacy ideas)
allan juul wrote: Quoting Perrin Harkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: While I agree with Stas that I've never felt the desire to point people to a FAQ instead of to a specific place in the docs, I do like your selection of questions. Maybe there could be a place for this, as a sort of "first stop" for newbies. I still think it would mostly point to things in the docs, rather than contain new information, but that's okay. exactly! the FAQ answers could perhaps just be the first 100 words or so followed by a hyperlink to the docs answer "..." it doesn't have to be that extensive at all. like: FAQ --- .. .. 5) Sometimes My Script Works, Sometimes It Does Not - why is that ? When you start running your scripts under mod_perl, you might find yourself in a situation where a script seems to work, but sometimes it screws up ... http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/porting.html#Sometimes_it_Works__Som etimes_it_Doesn_t">Click here elaborate answer I think you are talking about something like that: http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/frequent.html -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
allan juul wrote: Quoting Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Most of the things in the docs, at least mod_perl 1.0 guide are FAQ. It was originally written based on frequently asked questions on the list. yes, i understand that now. in a nutshell i see a FAQ as a short full stop page where one can quickly view commonly asked questions. let's take perl itself as an example. sometimes i forget how to do a directly search & replace in a file (in old perls you had to create tmp files and unlink them afterwards). this is not something i do very often so i tend to forget the syntax. but i also know that this would be a pretty common thing for people to do hence i look first in the perl FAQ. the infamous "Sometimes it Works, Sometimes it Doesn't" problem. i personally consider it a FAQ. if you were a mod_perl beginner but knew about this problem already (but couldn't remember how to solve it) how would you go about ? i see three approaches 1) look on perl.apache.org (how to find this answer is not that easy or is it ? what would you search for - how would you hyperlinnk-navigate ?) 2) ask the question on the mailing list 3) search elsewhere like google.com. horror! Right, I've posted a link to http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/frequent.html in the other post. Allan, may I suggest that may be you don't realize how much information there is in our docs and how hard it's going to be to decide what should be in the FAQ and what not? i certainly know there's a lot of information. i even think you know i know :) I do :) would you go along if i (if i can fine the time) took the task of simply compiling a small list a bit like the one i sent as an example in an earlier mail, the faq answers would then point to the real doc ? sure, but in pod of course :) and I'd suggest to start with mp1 specific ones, since mp2 docs aren't there yet. If you really want to help with docs, the best thing you can do now is start porting mod_perl 1 docs to mod_perl 2 docs, since that's the biggest hole now. mod_perl 1 is going to phase out, and 99.9% of the questions in the next year are going to be about mp2. We can't write a FAQ for that since things are still not there. But filling the gaps in the normal docs is what's the most important thing at the moment, if you ask me. i don't think a FAQ should be mod_perl2 og mod_perl1 specific. but i agree that getting the actual documentation right is much more important than a FAQ. but unfortuantely , im not in a position to help on that No problem. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Modperl Plates
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 09:44 -0700, Jayce^ wrote: I realized I'd never shown these off to the group. http://durnik.lug-nut.com/gallery/jayce/Plug/dsc01374.jpg http://durnik.lug-nut.com/gallery/jayce/Plug/dsc01375.jpg?width=1024 That's hilarious! We should put that pic on the site somewhere. Yeah! Someone should start a page and ask for funny mod_perl pics. Don't forget to include: http://scroogie.de/pix/data/media/2/mod_perl.jpg (though I've seen one with a higher resolution) -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FAQ (WAS: misc advocacy ideas)
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 08:10 +0100, allan juul wrote: * do i need to learn perl ? * can i use mod_perl on Windows ? * can i access a MySql database via mod_perl * can i use mod_perl and PHP on the same time * does mod_perl run on MicroSoft IIS * is mod_perl faster than jsp-pages * we need a CMS - where can i download one and use * we need a search engine - where can i download one and use * we need a shoping cart - where can i download one and use * is mod_perl object orientated ? * how much converting of my cgi scripts do i need to do in order to shift to mod_perl ? * why doesn't my changes show up after i refresh my page ? * do i really have to restart apache for every single change i made ? * can i compile mod_perl with the apxs tool ? * how much does mod_perl cost ? * where can wwe get support ? * the software is broken and we can't sue anyone. what do we do ? * perl is dead, right - so why go with mod_perl ? * we heard apache is insecure - is this true ? * can we integrate mod_perl with our Economy systems While I agree with Stas that I've never felt the desire to point people to a FAQ instead of to a specific place in the docs, I do like your selection of questions. Maybe there could be a place for this, as a sort of "first stop" for newbies. I still think it would mostly point to things in the docs, rather than contain new information, but that's okay. Shouldn't this belong to: http://perl.apache.org/start/index.html It was created mainly by Bill Moseley a few years ago, who came with the same ambition as Allan today. I think if you want to extend/reshape it, that would be great. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
allan juul wrote: Quoting Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: the FAQ should then reply in two sentences or less: "the reason for that behaviour is this blah blah ... click here to read more URL/TO/GUIDE" -1, it's already hard to maintain the vast amount of information. Trying to keep in sync yet another layer of indirection is an overkill. Instead an effort should be put at improving the existing information. And the search engine should be useful at finding it. i can see it's another layer but it is perhaps also fewer mails in your inbox :) isn't it very normal for the people who ask questions to go to a FAQ just before they send their question ? Most of the things in the docs, at least mod_perl 1.0 guide are FAQ. It was originally written based on frequently asked questions on the list. about searching. i also like the FAQ to be in the downloadble pdf - there's no quality search engine in my pdf reader. im sitting in the train having printed the whole documentaion and ask myself "does apache require a restart if i'm doing a change in this bit of code". If you agree that the docs are already a FAQ, you have the pdf version of all docs. also the very fact that you bring up the "search" step, cries for FAQ. a user have to type a searchword, enter submit, and read through 70 Results for [cache] for example. Allan, may I suggest that may be you don't realize how much information there is in our docs and how hard it's going to be to decide what should be in the FAQ and what not? If you really want to help with docs, the best thing you can do now is start porting mod_perl 1 docs to mod_perl 2 docs, since that's the biggest hole now. mod_perl 1 is going to phase out, and 99.9% of the questions in the next year are going to be about mp2. We can't write a FAQ for that since things are still not there. But filling the gaps in the normal docs is what's the most important thing at the moment, if you ask me. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
allan juul wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 16:35 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: > * faq > > this is such a web thing for both developers and project managers and > directors. couldn't we write a perl program that scans the total mail on > the mailing list extract the 50 most used words. seriously, it would be > great to have someone to write a faq - someone with the time to do it. The documentation that exists now mostly started as a FAQ that Stas kept adding to. I'm not sure it's possible to address all of mod_perl in a FAQ format. It would either be redundant, or just a set of links to the other docs. Maybe I'm just too close to the material though. If someone else has an idea for how to do a useful FAQ, show us. ok, i didn't know the mod_perl doc history. i guess a faq always is redundant (perhaps it even _should_ be). perl itself has one of course [1] oh, and apache too [2] what i had in mind was a very very quick faq of perhaps 10 questions, perhaps only 5 or 2. the important thing is that it is concise and only updated when really needed (ie when people post the same question over and over again - which btw is also a sort of redundancy ;) ) so let us just start with questions that _really_ are mod_perl faq's. here's one that spring to mind But we have exactly that already: http://perl.apache.org/start/index.html 1) when i start my browser and go to [URL] the very first time i get one result but subsequent refreshes output different results. why is that ? [1] http://perl.com/pub/q/FAQs [2] http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
allan juul wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 00:08 +0100, allan juul wrote: here's one that spring to mind 1) when i start my browser and go to [URL] the very first time i get one result but subsequent refreshes output different results. why is that ? http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/porting.html#Sometimes_it_Works__Sometimes_it_Doesn_t But maybe it is useful to have a brief collection of questions, even if the answers are just URLs like this. yes i think so. but i also know that i'm at a completly different mod_perl stage than yourself. but i think a FAQ wil help both a beginner and a list-replier and a even doc writer. i'm just guessing that people like yourself and stas who answers a lot of questions sometimes would like to make this reply instead of poing to an URL in the documentation: Not really. I prefer to find an exact URL myself and point users to it. pointing to a FAQ doesn't ensure that they will find the right section. - have you read the FAQ? or - thats a FAQ :URL/TO/FAQ the FAQ should then reply in two sentences or less: "the reason for that behaviour is this blah blah ... click here to read more URL/TO/GUIDE" -1, it's already hard to maintain the vast amount of information. Trying to keep in sync yet another layer of indirection is an overkill. Instead an effort should be put at improving the existing information. And the search engine should be useful at finding it. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 15:44 -0700, Jayce^ wrote: If we can bring out the points here in a discussion, I'd be willing to compile/format them nicely. How about just collecting the slides that Stas, Phillipe, and Geoff have used when introducing mp2 at conferences, and trying to summarize the juiciest bits from them? That's probably the best candidate, since it was already a tight summary (though it's out of date - 1.5 years old) http://stason.org/talks/perlcon2003/presentation/mod_perl-2.0-presentation-slides.pdf.gz -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
Jayce^ wrote: On Monday 13 December 2004 03:59 pm, Stas Bekman wrote: Jayce^++, should we better do it on the users list, so others can benefit from the discussion? so we kill two birds in one shot. of course it may generate some extra noise. So it's up to you Jayce^ to decide whether you want to sum more or less :) I'm willing to do either, I just thought this channel might be better since it really is an advocacy issue. But at the same time, many users on the modperl list wonder why should they move to mp2. That's why I thought to run it there. It'll also give you a chance to here why it's not a good idea to move to mp2, which is just as important for PR. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
Jayce^ wrote: On Monday 13 December 2004 03:30 pm, Stas Bekman wrote: I guess there is more than 5, but it's a good idea. Any takers? If we can bring out the points here in a discussion, I'd be willing to compile/format them nicely. If we could just all chip in the things we each see as most important, and would like to focus on. Jayce^++, should we better do it on the users list, so others can benefit from the discussion? so we kill two birds in one shot. of course it may generate some extra noise. So it's up to you Jayce^ to decide whether you want to sum more or less :) -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
misc advocacy ideas
[another split, let's keep PR-how thread focused on one thing] allan juul wrote: > * bullet list of perhaps 5 major reasons to upgrade > > can someone tell joe public in very few sentences what i gain by > upgrading to mod_perl 2? > > * faq > > this is such a web thing for both developers and project managers and > directors. couldn't we write a perl program that scans the total mail on > the mailing list extract the 50 most used words. seriously, it would be > great to have someone to write a faq - someone with the time to do it. > > > * what does a banner ad cost on perl.com, could we get one cheapish ? > > a banner on perl.com should in theory really be free since they run > mod_perl themselves and get articles i belive by the mod_perl community. > banners elsewhere - dont we know people uses this great software who may > want to support it back by other means that mouth to mouth ? > > > * timing - is 3-4 weeks a good date or does the news drown in > forgetfulness (xmas and new years hollidays). maybe it's even better to > wait to january ? > > proper PR is probaly always well-planned. to me it looks like a very bad > idea to release in the middle of xmas fever (altought it's a very nice > christmas gift of course). it should also co-incide with the above > suggest of a possible banner of course > > > > > * merchandise - geek.com ? > > does mod_perl_1 merchandise even exists ? > we might wanna ask people if they can help on the mod_perl list > > > * how about a good slogan competition ? > > not kidding. the slogan should probably preferably reflect above wanted > bullet list. > > > > * how about a possible list of comany users of mod_perl2 [if any > notable] > > > > * lastly, don't know if this has been discused before, i really think > that we should appoint 1-2 people responsible for the pr of this > software. [people who can afford the time envolved] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: misc advocacy ideas
Stas Bekman wrote: [another split, let's keep PR-how thread focused on one thing] answering only to some ideas. Hoping that others will followup on the rest (fingers ache here, need to write some perl code and give my fingers a rest). allan juul wrote: > * bullet list of perhaps 5 major reasons to upgrade > > can someone tell joe public in very few sentences what i gain by > upgrading to mod_perl 2? I guess there is more than 5, but it's a good idea. Any takers? > * timing - is 3-4 weeks a good date or does the news drown in > forgetfulness (xmas and new years hollidays). maybe it's even better to > wait to january ? > > proper PR is probaly always well-planned. to me it looks like a very bad > idea to release in the middle of xmas fever (altought it's a very nice > christmas gift of course). it should also co-incide with the above > suggest of a possible banner of course we aren't really trying to sell anything. And in any case 2.0 will most likely be released after XMAS. We still have some unfinished work to do, besides the unexpected bug reports. > * lastly, don't know if this has been discused before, i really think > that we should appoint 1-2 people responsible for the pr of this > software. [people who can afford the time envolved] +1 -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR release for mp2.0.0?
Jayce^ wrote: On Monday 13 December 2004 09:05 am, Stas Bekman wrote: For those who haven't noticed mp2-RC1 was released and we should get 2.0 really soon now (my guess another 3-4 weeks, but could happen earlier too). So it's time to start thinking about preparing a PR that was discussed here before. Any takers to lead this effort? Anybody Submitted this to slashdot yet? Seems like a good place to get the word out to geeks. Especially those that have been fretting about not using mp2 until it's 'released'. This is planned. We are trying to find someone who can raise the chances to get this submitted by /.org. Do you know a /.org insider? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR release for mp2.0.0?
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 16:34 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: A little clarification: by posting this I've meant to first of all figure out how we post a PR (via ASF/TPF/TicketMaster/etc), not what we post inside a PR. Acronym overload. I thought you meant "public relations", not "press release." Yes, sorry. I just thought that folks have remember this thread: http://gossamer-threads.com/lists/modperl/advocacy/71984 If a press release is what you have in mind, it should come from the ASF (Apache, in case anyone didn't know). They are the most respected name in free software these days outside of Linux itself. Want to post a follow-up question about how to do it on the members list? Good idea. I'll do that. But it won't hurt to check other channels. Does it have to be one press release? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: posting news on perl.apache.org
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 16:29 -0500, Stas Bekman wrote: No news is better than stale news. So I'm really -0 on starting any news sections. We tried this before, it never worked. Really? I don't remember that. On the old site? Updates were kind of difficult back then. Correct, the old site. The only way I can see this working if someone volunteers to keep it up2date and really does the work, and not for the first week. I volunteered for this, and I will keep it going. perrin++. I guess in the worst case if things stale down, we can always remove it later. perl.apache.org is really a documentation site, it's not a news site. Perhaps someone could start /.org style modperl news site, in which case it should be much easier to keep it alive, by just letting others post stories. perl.apache.org could link to it and have RSS feed to it. I will work on providing an RSS feed later, but I think it's important to have news on the front page, like php.net and most others do. But RSS feed to what? Or do you mean RSS feed of perl.apache.org to other sites? I was thinking to have something like modperl.use.perl.org or elsewhere where there will be news posted and just have perl.apache.org include RSS to that site. So one doesn't change anything on perl.apache.org. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PR release for mp2.0.0?
Stas Bekman wrote: For those who haven't noticed mp2-RC1 was released and we should get 2.0 really soon now (my guess another 3-4 weeks, but could happen earlier too). So it's time to start thinking about preparing a PR that was discussed here before. Any takers to lead this effort? A little clarification: by posting this I've meant to first of all figure out how we post a PR (via ASF/TPF/TicketMaster/etc), not what we post inside a PR. Both should be discussed, but if we don't have the "how" part resolved, there is no point discussing what should be posted. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: posting news on perl.apache.org
[moving this into a different thread. let's keep the PR thread focused just on that: publishing PR] > * news flash on frontpage on perl.apache.org > > one thing (and a thing which constantly annoys me from a PR point of > view) is the fact that the mod_perl website's frontpage doesn't have a > news section. it's no-one's fault but even that it's updated frequently, > there aren't really any news on the frontpage. on that note i like the > idea the way they do it on perl.org - probably some rss feeds (?) Replying here to Allan and Perrin at once. No news is better than stale news. So I'm really -0 on starting any news sections. We tried this before, it never worked. The only way I can see this working if someone volunteers to keep it up2date and really does the work, and not for the first week. > i think we should at least do a news flash somwhere on the slightly too > informative (IMO) frontpage. perl.apache.org is really a documentation site, it's not a news site. Perhaps someone could start /.org style modperl news site, in which case it should be much easier to keep it alive, by just letting others post stories. perl.apache.org could link to it and have RSS feed to it. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PR release for mp2.0.0?
For those who haven't noticed mp2-RC1 was released and we should get 2.0 really soon now (my guess another 3-4 weeks, but could happen earlier too). So it's time to start thinking about preparing a PR that was discussed here before. Any takers to lead this effort? -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Another prediction of Perl's demise
Posted here for the archives, when someone asks again to give them information about why they or their bosses/clients should choose Perl versus something else: http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=410307 -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl marketing
Frank Wiles wrote: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:26:40 -0800 Ken Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ** This message is being resubmitted from the modperl discussion ** mailing list. Someone suggested that we should write an article ** about using Apache as a mail proxy -- anyone know how we can get ** that done? We have been using mod_perl successfully for several months now as a flexible email proxy -- we just wrapped Net::Server::Mail and with a few additional hacks and it worked. Matt Sergeant did the same thing with qpsmtpd and I have heard that the performance results were initially very promising (http://msgs.securepoint.com/cgi-bin/get/qmail0411/120/1/1/1.html). More details of our hack (patches etc.) are at http://www.mailchannels.com/opensource and http://search.cpan.org/~mock/Apache-SMTP-0.01/lib/Apache/SMTP.pm. IMHO, using mod_perl as a general application server is a great idea. For us there really was no other viable alternative. We looked at POE, Sendmail's milter API, Net::Server and of course qpsmtpd but the reliability, portability, and scalability of Apache was what caused us to go through the effort of making our bits work on mod_perl. To configure a mail server, it's just a matter of adding a VirtualHost section to the Apache configuration et voila. And as packages such as mod_throttle move over to Apache 2, we will gain the wonderment of a solid resource management tool for mail traffic. Joy! It should be pretty easy to get that article on perl.com. If you just want to write a small success story for http://perl.apache.org we can put that up as well. I think both would be great. To get your article on perl.com, please see: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/general/writing.html To get your success story on perl.apache.org, please see the bottom of: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
advocacy: J2EE: no longer required - Loosely Coupled weblog, Nov 18th 2004 10:20am
For those seeking mod_perl advocacy bits. Spotted this on /.org today: http://www.looselycoupled.com/blog/lc00aa00074.html That entry mainly suggests LAMP to scale better than J2EE using a grid of cheap PCs, à là Google/Amazon style. It links to the detailed articles: http://peteryared.blogspot.com/2003/09/next-language.html http://peteryared.blogspot.com/2003/09/application-servers-2004-big-muffin-in.html http://www.activegrid.com/news/pressrelease-111704.php -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:59:14 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That's certainly possible. But you probably want to have a separate effort and just reuse the infrustructure of TPF for collecting money? Correct. I don't think it would hurt to have it listed among the other Perl efforts, but it would certainly be organized and ran by someone in the mod_perl community and not just part of the normal Perl efforts. Sounds good. There is also the ASF side, something to check as well... -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:33:22 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As I'm sure many of you have heard about the SpreadFirefox.com campaign to do advertising via donations. I have been waiting for long time to see a project do this, as I think it's a great way to get exposure. Do you think we could pull something like this off for mod_perl and/or perl itself? I doubt we could raise the money for a full page NYT add, but we may be able to raise enough money to get some banner ads, 1/4 page in Dr. Dobbs, or something along those lines to tie into the final mp2 release. Comments? Certainly a good idea. The question is whether someone wants to lead the effort and whether there are enough time resources to do that. Maybe we could get help from the Perl foundation on this? Make it part of their fund drive? As I'm sure they have the infrastructure in place to handle the donations. That's certainly possible. But you probably want to have a separate effort and just reuse the infrustructure of TPF for collecting money? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:35:34 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks for the suggestion, Eric, but, my point was to try to stir again the advocacy efforts which have quickly died since Aug. Not really to figure out the exact number of users, which is not really feasible, IMHO. Which reminds me something that I didn't mention on this list. The article I submitted on mod_perl 2.0 will be in the January issue of Sys Admin Magazine. Hopefully it will bring a few converts. That's an excellent news, Frank! As I'm sure many of you have heard about the SpreadFirefox.com campaign to do advertising via donations. I have been waiting for long time to see a project do this, as I think it's a great way to get exposure. Do you think we could pull something like this off for mod_perl and/or perl itself? I doubt we could raise the money for a full page NYT add, but we may be able to raise enough money to get some banner ads, 1/4 page in Dr. Dobbs, or something along those lines to tie into the final mp2 release. Comments? Certainly a good idea. The question is whether someone wants to lead the effort and whether there are enough time resources to do that. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:46:12 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sure, but I still want to hear first, what do you have on your mind, that you want to propose to users? A quick howto on the website for how to configure ServerToken so that it will be detected by NetCraft. +1 While I think the NetCraft survey is important, maybe we should attack this another way. Create our own "registered users" page, like the Linux Counter site, where mod_perl users could list their sites. This still wouldn't catch everyone, but every little bit helps. Personally, I doubt we really want to do that. But if others are interested, by all means go for it. I just think noone will really care, and we will have the efforts wasted, which otherwise could be directed at better venues. But what do I know :) Please don't consider that as a discouraging note :) Yeah I was just throwing that out there as an idea. I think if we mention ServerToken, and it's role in mod_perl user counting, in the installation instructions it might help to reduce the erosion of the numbers. Sure, sounds good. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:18:47 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You mean the decline is because more and more people move to the front-/back-end setup, and people aren't just moving to php? Oh I'm sure some of the decline is people moving to PHP, Python, Java, etc... but I don't think that we're losing as many people as that survey says. The reason I say that is because doing a "default" install of Apache2/mp2 via the instructions on perl.apache.org, my server at home doesn't report that it is using mod_perl. I'm sure other people are in similar situations where they don't even realize their server isn't claiming to be mod_perl powered. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do that. But I think that no matter how things are configured by default now, both stats counters give a good indication that the user base is going down. Maybe we should put together a quick howto on fixing that and suggest it on the mailing list? Do you think it'll have any impact when we talk about hundreds of thousands of users who aren't on the list and will never reach our site? What technique to help the scanners were you thinking about? I wasn't really thinking about a scanner technique, but you're I wasn't talking about the scanning technique. But the approach that will tell the scanners that mod_perl is there :) If user sets ServerToken to Off, you can't do much. And you can't enable it by default since some believe it's a security issue. right we wouldn't reach everyone via the mailing list. However, if we could put the howto up on the website, mention it on the list, etc it couldn't hurt to help boost those numbers. It wouldn't be anything drastic, but shouldn't be much work for us and/or the users. Sure, but I still want to hear first, what do you have on your mind, that you want to propose to users? While I think the NetCraft survey is important, maybe we should attack this another way. Create our own "registered users" page, like the Linux Counter site, where mod_perl users could list their sites. This still wouldn't catch everyone, but every little bit helps. Personally, I doubt we really want to do that. But if others are interested, by all means go for it. I just think noone will really care, and we will have the efforts wasted, which otherwise could be directed at better venues. But what do I know :) Please don't consider that as a discouraging note :) -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Eric wrote: Hi, This may be a horrible suggestion. But I have seen one or two install programs ask if they can send debugging info back to the source. Certainly PHP does this when there are errors with tests. What if at the conclusion of all of the tests, there was a prompt to ask something like,"Count me as a mod_perl user. (y/n)" Or even something more useful, like returning uname -a along with some basic info so that knowing the tests were all successful is useful. Thanks for the suggestion, Eric, but, my point was to try to stir again the advocacy efforts which have quickly died since Aug. Not really to figure out the exact number of users, which is not really feasible, IMHO. Or I guess for that matter why not just count downloads? That's impossible, since there is no single source. mod_perl is distributed through many channels, for most of which we have no control. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
Frank Wiles wrote: On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:47:26 -0500 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: for some reason we still don't have the numbers for Oct 2004 from netcraft but regardless it's easy to see that the stats are getting worse all the time: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/stats/securityspace.html http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/stats/netcraft.html Isn't this probably caused in part by systems that don't have 'mod_perl' in their server signature and/or systems using a small Apache front end with a mod_perl backend on another port? You mean the decline is because more and more people move to the front-/back-end setup, and people aren't just moving to php? I just checked my system at home and it doesn't report "mod_perl" to NetCraft. I think we discussed that earlier. If I remember correctly NetCraft can't scan ports (even the known ones) due to legal reasons. Maybe we should put together a quick howto on fixing that and suggest it on the mailing list? Do you think it'll have any impact when we talk about hundreds of thousands of users who aren't on the list and will never reach our site? What technique to help the scanners were you thinking about? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mod_perl usage stats continue to decline
for some reason we still don't have the numbers for Oct 2004 from netcraft but regardless it's easy to see that the stats are getting worse all the time: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/stats/securityspace.html http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/stats/netcraft.html -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Source Web Book | Content | mod_perl
Frank Wiles wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:59:53 -0400 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Frank Wiles wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:44:16 -0400 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, are there any volunteers to take over those articles/resource maintenance? It shouldn't be to hard to get a cvs commit access, once>the patches start flowing in. Is that everything under /docs/offsite/ ? That's correct. I'll take it over. It'll probably be a week or so before I have time to start on it, but it shouldn't be much work to clean it up and keep my eyes open for new stuff from here on out. Thanks Frank. BTW, I've found those while trying a9.com, the new search engine. http://a9.com/mod_perl -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Source Web Book | Content | mod_perl
Frank Wiles wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:44:16 -0400 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, are there any volunteers to take over those articles/resource maintenance? It shouldn't be to hard to get a cvs commit access, once the patches start flowing in. Is that everything under /docs/offsite/ ? That's correct. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open Source Web Book | Content | mod_perl
Frank Wiles wrote: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:02:32 -0400 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And I've found this too: <http://www.opensourcewebbook.com/contents/mod_perl/> While it's not 100% about mod_perl, I wouldn't see any harm in linking to it. Especialy since they link to the mod_perl home page, guide, and the Eagle book. Maybe you could convince them to link to your's and Geoffrey's books as well. So, are there any volunteers to take over those articles/resource maintenance? It shouldn't be to hard to get a cvs commit access, once the patches start flowing in. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Open Source Web Book | Content | mod_perl
And I've found this too: <http://www.opensourcewebbook.com/contents/mod_perl/> -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debugging mod_perl with a symbol audit - Builder.com
Found this article: <http://builder.com.com/5100-6371-1058784.html> Debugging mod_perl with a symbol audit November 4, 2002 Not sure who wrote it. Should we link to it? -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "Content Management with Bricolage" on Perl.com
David Wheeler wrote: The first in a series of articles on Bricolage that I'm writing for O'Reilly and Associates, "Content Management with Bricolage," has been published on Perl.com. http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/08/27/bricolage.html This article targets organizational decision makers by offering a high-level overview of the content management ecosystem and how Bricolage compares to other approaches to content management. It also highlights some of the more important features of Bricolage, as well as a number of the Websites currently powered by Bricolage. Future articles in the series will cover installation, document modeling, templating, and customization. David++! -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mp2 article for sysadmin
Frank Wiles wrote: Hi Everyone, SysAdmin has accepted my proposal for an article on mod_perl. Basically a general "what is mod_perl" with some mp1 vs mp2 stuff. Frank++! They want it for either their January or March issue, but may be able to use it in December if I can crank it out in the next 1-2 weeks. I'm assuming that mp 2.0 will be official before December. Is there any worry that it won't be golden by then? If so it might be in our best interest to have the article go in the January or March issue. What do you guys think? We hope so, but you know how it is in the open source, it'll be out as soon as it's ready. So when you write the article, you can just say, "hopefully by the time this article is published mod_perl 2.0 has already been released" or something like that. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ping!
And there are also the Apache Software Foundation resources. I'm not sure what they can do for us, but I know ASF java projects do get PRs released. Not sure if it's through ASF or not. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ping!
Gavin Estey wrote: I just wanted to stop lurking and get round to pinging this list [thanks to Jeff for the prodding :)] Great news, Gavin! Just a little bit of background, I'm the PR chair for The Perl Foundation (TPF), and I'm trying to help both TPF and other Perl communities do better at spreading news about the good things that we do. One of my current goals is to try to find an outside PR firm to help with the distribution of press releases etc. If anybody has any recommendations, please get in touch. My day job involves a lot of mod_perl stuff, so I reminded my boss that mod_perl makes us a lot of money so the least we could do is write something up for the "Technologie Extraordinaire" section. I also got a some feedback from him on this section, from the perspective of a marketing guy. * Firstly, we had a little trouble finding the section. I was looking for "Success Stories" or something in the left bar. done: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/index.html * Looking at the "Success Stories" page his first comment was "they're just emails!". * They seem pretty outdated. * It doesn't seem too professional, one for instance was from a "Smelly Belly". Improvements are more than welcome :) 'just emails' was the best we could come up with w/o introducing a huge overhead of managing those pages, since we don't have time for doing that. Possibly a good thing to do is remove most of these and try to focus the effort pushing big sites that use mod_perl with more marketing friendly copy. I'll pick the brains of some more colleagues next week to get some more feedback from non-Perl people. Would it be possible to have these pages on some kind of staging wiki to make it easy for people to contribute? the pages are autogenerated (from txt/html/pod sources). and as you said by yourself, you want the pages to look spiffy and markety, so it's probably out of question to let random people mess with those. If you want to get a commit access and work on those, it's not a problem. On the other hand the wiki scratch area could live elsewhere. I also thought that I saw a page somewhere that listed companies that contributed money/developers to mod_perl development, but I can't seem http://perl.apache.org/about/contributors/companies.html to find it now. He was interested in how he would be able to sponsor efforts to increase awareness in the community, should there be a list of people/projects looking for funding somewhere? We used to have this page, but at some point it became empty and was deleted (that was like 2-3 years ago, before the site revamp). Also on this note, it would be nice to see some mod_perl projects submitted for the next round of TPF grants (http://www.perlfoundation.org/gc/grants/proposals.html). Yeah, I suppose most people are unaware of this option. I guess it should appear somewhere on the perl.apache.org site and a reminider posted to the list once in a while. Someone has mentioned reviving the weekly/monthly modperl traffic summaries. Those could include the reminder and other advocacy bits. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Success stories patch
Frank Wiles wrote: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:02:32 -0700 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, no need for URL: prefix. All urls m#(http|ftp|etc)://# are automatically converted into links. But it's good to have the main URL in the headers as your patch did. Then why don't the perl.apache.org and Calmaeth links have HREFs on these two pages? http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/allakhazam.com.html http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/calmaeth.maths.uwa.edu.au.html These two pages are what led me to believe only the links listed in the URL: header were linked. are sorry, text is not parsed. if you look at the autogenerated pod, those stories are converted into /^ $line/ format, so they are unparsed. The idea was to preserve email formatting and not needing to worry about pod-unsafe characters (<, >, &, etc.) Alternatively we could replace that with plain text but first having pod unescaped. This should be just a local fix in ./make.pl. Once this is done then urls will be linked and text re-wrapped... As we seemed to agree at the advocacy list, we shouldn't not delete sites that are no longer there. Just indicate that the site used to be "openscape.org" but is no longer with us. remove the http:// part, justing leaving the domain name, so it won't get linked. I thought we could outsmart the death, by doing: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://openscape.org/ but alas the domain squatter set the robots rule, so we can't even know whether there were some pages stored in the internet archives. But we should definitely use http://archive.org/ in the future for those sites that have ceased to exist, instead of removing the link. That works for me. Yeah we definitely agree that we don't want to remove stories for sites that no longer exist, but I wasn't sure what we should do about sites that have changed ownership and are obviously not the same site. I thought it might be confusing to the reader. Good idea about using archive.org, I always forget that site exists. if the ownership changes, and we can give a direct link to the last snapshot at archive.org, then it's cool. in either case we should explain that the online version is either not there anymore or that the link that used to point there doesn't point to the same thing anymore. As usually old links tend to start pointing to porn sites, which try to cash on the existing users of those previously non-porn sites. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Success stories patch
[pinging back the advocacy list] Frank Wiles wrote: Here is a patch for the Success Stories. Just cleaned up some mispellings, obvious mistypings, and some minor grammar corrections. Thanks Frank, committed. I also make sure to add URL: headings for stories that contained URLs in the body, but didn't list them at the top. I'm assuming that only the URLs after a URL: tag get HREFs, if that isn't the case let me know what the regex looks for and I'll clean up the URLs in the bodies. No, no need for URL: prefix. All urls m#(http|ftp|etc)://# are automatically converted into links. But it's good to have the main URL in the headers as your patch did. I'm not sure about this story: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/openscape.org.html The site isn't up anymore (domain squatter has it) and it references the site to the point the story almost doesn't make sense. I'm leaning toward removing it, but I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I'll go through the sites page over the weekend. As we seemed to agree at the advocacy list, we shouldn't not delete sites that are no longer there. Just indicate that the site used to be "openscape.org" but is no longer with us. remove the http:// part, justing leaving the domain name, so it won't get linked. I thought we could outsmart the death, by doing: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://openscape.org/ but alas the domain squatter set the robots rule, so we can't even know whether there were some pages stored in the internet archives. But we should definitely use http://archive.org/ in the future for those sites that have ceased to exist, instead of removing the link. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: please stop sending me mails
culas sudeep wrote: Please stop sending me mails regards gentlemen If you (or your friend) by mistake have subscribed yourself to this list, you can unsubscribe by sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and follow the instructions. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: as promised...
Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Yesterday, I submitted the first of a two or three parter in Linux Magazine, essentially a transcription of my "intro to mod_perl" talk I gave at OSCON. Hopefully, by the time the third part comes around, I'll know enough about mp2 to make coherent noises. Excellent news, Randal. They won't have it online, right? And if they are it'll probably be password protected. In which case should we just point out the name of the article and which issue is it in http://perl.apache.org/docs/offsite/articles.html (which hasn't been maintained for a long time, something for the advocacy effort to tackle as well) -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggested call for Success stories!
Frank Wiles wrote: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:50:58 -0700 "Philippe M. Chiasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Another thing that could help would be to go thru the existing success stories and make sure all those sites are still in business. Volounteers? Do we really need to do that? While the business might not have been a success their previous use of mod_perl was still a success right? We should make sure all of the links to websites are still valid, but other than that I don't see anything wrong with leaving the story up. The stories without URLs, for the most part, won't be researched by anyone to see if they are still in business anyway . Also some of the stories only list "my former employer", "one of my consulting contracts", etc. I agree with Frank. +1 to keep all the stories intact, just to remove the URLs if they are dead and can't be adjusted. If everyone agrees with me on this I'd be more than willing to double check all of the links and correct some of the English errors I spotted. Is this section of the website in CVS that I can patch against? Yup, there are .txt files in modperl-docs/src/outstanding/success_stories/ (they get translated to pod by running ./make.pl in that directory) and there is a related modperl-docs/src/outstanding/sites.html in case you want to review it as well. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggested call for Success stories!
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: Hey, I'd like to gather thoughts around wording an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] urging people to submit success stories. So, how about something along these lines: Is the company you are working for using mod_perl ? Is your no company listed here http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html ? Well, if you answered Yes to both questions, submitting a success story is simple and easy. Just download the success story template from http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/template.pod (not there yet), fill it in and submit it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's that simple! The mod_perl Advocacy team +1 In fact this should be sent to the modperl list every 2-3 months, since people need to be reminded of that... Also I had an additional input when I was posting this request at use.perl.org. Many people for whom mod_perl 'just works' aren't on the mailing list, so they will never see it. So use.perl.org usually is a good place to cross-post this request (but probably at a lesser repetition, so the post gets approved :) -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: eWeek Reviews Bricolage]
David, in the future please CC the advocacy list. This is a great stuff. Now how can we use Bricolage success to modperl advocacy? Original Message Subject: eWeek Reviews Bricolage Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:45:32 -0700 From: David Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mod_perl Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> eWeek has reviewed Bricolage, the mod_perl-powered, PostgreSQL-backed open-source content management system. The article was published last week. An excerpt: Bricolage is quite possibly the most capable enterprise-class open-source application available. The Web content management application features excellent administration capabilities, and it is highly extensible and capable of managing even the biggest and most complex Web sites. As an open-source product, Bricolage is free, and companies can now purchase support and development services from Kineticode. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1627959,00.asp The article is part of the "Content Management Face-Off" in the current issue of eWeek: Included in this evaluation are the open-source Bricolage 1.8.1, Interwoven Inc.'s TeamSite 6.1, CrownPeak Technology Inc.'s Advantage CMS, Serena Software Inc.'s Collage 4.5, PaperThin Inc.'s CommonSpot Content Server 4.0 and Ektron Inc.'s CMS300 4.5. (The reviews are ordered, roughly, from the high end to the low end of the content management market.) http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1627957,00.asp Regards, David -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:59, Stas Bekman wrote: That's the whole point. In order to make things simple, it shouldn't require commit access or anything list that. We could even use a simplified version of slashdot, so people can submit stories, people can comment on them, making it much more efficient and not creating any bottlenecks. Yes, we could set up a blog for news. It seems a bit redundant to have comments when we already have the mailing list(s), so I would skip that. We also can't put things on the site without an approval process, so it would need users and permissions. If we are able to host web apps on perl.apache.org and someone out there feels like playing with some simple blog software (Blosxom? Bryar?), that would be fine with me. Just throwing ideas, really. If the overhead of managing news is too big, it will be too easy to stop doing that. So I'm just wondering what's the simplest approach for more people being able to contibute w/o as little overhead as possible. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
How about: Author: Philippe M. Chiasson Title: How mod_perl saved my life! Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html Author Icon: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif Category: Success Stories Abstract: Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just purchased and tells us how it happened. Story: bla bla bla bla Which is a plain email with extra fields. In fact we already use that. Take a look at: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html each of these entries originates from .txt files which is an original email with a few extra fields. It's then transformed into pod, and finally to html. Check modperl-docs/src/outstanding/success_stories/ -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:12, Stas Bekman wrote: One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand, and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for generating the pages. Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific. There doesn't need to be a front-end. People who don't have access to the site CVS just send submissions to an editor. That's the whole point. In order to make things simple, it shouldn't require commit access or anything list that. We could even use a simplified version of slashdot, so people can submit stories, people can comment on them, making it much more efficient and not creating any bottlenecks. Just have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data. Bricolage, like any CMS with a similar breadth of features, is far from simple. I don't see any need to have a web form. This is just basic structured data, which can be written to a flat file. I would like to preserve the current situation where the site is not dynamic except for the search. Agreed. Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great. Presumably they use a database. jobs.perl.org is orders of magnitude more complex than a simple news listing. OK -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 05:25, Stas Bekman wrote: Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the pool of possible authors/reporters as high as possible. +1 to stand clear of XXXml ;) I can't imagine that more people know YAML than basic XML. I know I've avoided YAML so far, since it seems pretty pointless to me. I don't think POD or a wiki would provide enough structure for this use (we need a headline, body, date, poster, etc.), although I suppose we could make POD work by requiring a strict structure for news items. One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand, and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for generating the pages. Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific. Just have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data. Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Uwe Voelker wrote: +1 to stand clear of XXXml ;) But RSS is XML. Yes, but it doesn't mean that the source should be written in XML. BTW, take a look at http://perl.apache.org/jobs/jobs.html which gets its feed from perl.org via this simple js: "JavaScript" type="text/javascript" src="http://jobs.perl.org/rss/mod_perl.js?limit=25;details=1";> I think that would be perfect, and doesn't require any modifications to the current site. And the feed can live anywhere. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote: I would like to help. What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding? It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already written. Then we need to hook into the site generation script to read this file, put the first 3 items on the home page if they are newer than 60 days, generate an archive page for the rest up to a year old, and generate an RSS file for the latest 10 items. Check out the site code by following the instructions here: http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html May be it's the simplest to setup wiki? it can live in the checkout directory w/o having anything to do with the site generation. just an idea. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote: I would like to help. What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding? It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already written. How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the pool of possible authors/reporters as high as possible. +1 to stand clear of XXXml ;) -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reply-to header test
Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Stas> Sorry, Randal, but No to your No. I spend a way too much time asking Stas> people to reply to the list. And I predict within four weeks, someone will post a mailing here that says "oops, I didn't mean that for the list". It happens. Best to err toward privacy, not public disclosure. It happens both ways, there is no perfect approach. I prefer people watching their To headers, than us active posters handling tons of misdirected emails ending up in my private inbox, breaking threads, having information disappear, etc. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reply-to header test
Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Stas> coolio, it works ;) thanks apmail folks. Ugh. No. <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html> Please remove this abomination. Sorry, Randal, but No to your No. I spend a way too much time asking people to reply to the list. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Stas Bekman wrote: I try to get it in where I can. If anyone, and I mean *anyone* has an idea, I have 2.5 colums to write every month. I'm there. I'll do it. Just feed me the core idea. Philippe, please write down to send core files to Randal :) I mean 'core ideas' ;-) -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Stas> So, Randal, what it'll take for you to start writing mod_perl columns? You mean, besides: <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col03.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col17.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col26.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col28.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col33.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col36.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col60.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col61.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col18.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col24.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col32.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col41.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col47.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col48.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col49.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col50.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col54.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col55.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col57.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col58.html> <http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col59wt.html> ? Or at least, these columns *mention* mod_perl. Excellent I try to get it in where I can. If anyone, and I mean *anyone* has an idea, I have 2.5 colums to write every month. I'm there. I'll do it. Just feed me the core idea. Philippe, please write down to send core files to Randal :) -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reply-to header test
coolio, it works ;) thanks apmail folks. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
reply-to header test
-- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "Stas" == Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Stas> o SysAdmin Stas> - Frank Wiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent a proposal I write a bi-monthly column there. Stas> o The Perl Magazine Stas> - geoff is working on the Oct article If this is "The Perl Journal", I write a monthly column there. And, "Linux Magazine" - monthly column. Ah, OK, I guess I shouldn't have used real names to mock up the proposals format :) So, Randal, what it'll take for you to start writing mod_perl columns? -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: [...] What do you think? We put these files under cvs modperl-docs and we sync the discussions here with these files. Would we want those files to be publicly visible on the perl.apache.org site as well (I wouldn't mind). sure, since this list is public, there should be no reason why the concolusions should be secret. it should be easy to have them in plain pod, or text or whatever in the source and autogenerate files as all other files on perl.apache.org. Or if people think that some sort of kiki-miki is more efficient and creates less barriers (but potentially bigger admin) overhead, that will work just as well. It's hard to understand what's happening from emails, it's easier to track that via files. Yup, wether we decide to simply use a few text files or POD files that end up on the site as well, I'd like to volounter as maintainer of that stuff once we agree what/where we put the 'stuff'. It's possible to start maintaining things right away, and move later to whatever format we decide upon. I think a plain text files (keep .txt to DocSet will know to automatically convert those to html) is a good start. So, unless anybody strongly objects, I'll prepare an overview of what has been said this week and split it up in some sort of documents. gozer++ -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Jeff Bisbee wrote: * Stas Bekman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: o The Perl Magazine - geoff is working on the Oct article Do you mean the Perl Journal? (I'm assuming yes...) yes, sorry, as mentioned my example was all fake. Actual characters are non-existing figures, and any resemblance with real people and objects should be considered as an incidental coincidence :) -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Please don't forget to hit Reply-All. I'll ask to setup Reply-To header back to the list. Jeff Bisbee wrote: * Stas Bekman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Jeff, if you will start sending patching, very quickly you will get a commit access to make you more productive. That applies for anybody else who wants to contribute :) Sounds like a plan. I'd also like to get the mail issue fixed with ezmlm. It seems that even though I signed up with [EMAIL PROTECTED] and am getting mail to that address, my messages are coming through as [EMAIL PROTECTED] and being held for moderation. Sounds like a config param or something to me. Anyone know who maintains the mailing lists for you guys? I'd like to resolve this issue as quickly as possible. Check that your From: address matches. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Frank Wiles wrote: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:52:46 -0600 Doran Barton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What can I do to help? Jayce^ said a lot of help is needed in the documentation department. I can certainly help there. What else? General advocacy? Someone should write a feature for SysAdmin or other publications showing off the beauty and power of MP2. I've sent in an article proposal to SysAdmin to do an article on MP2. I've written a couple of articles for them in the past and some of their offices are in my home town so I know some of the folks there. It would be for the January issue on Open Source. I'll let the list know if it is accepted. If it is accepted I may be asking a few of you to give it a once over before I submit it to make sure everything is peachy. As I've suggested at the BOF, an ad-hoc work won't be as successful as something that's more co-ordinated. Ideally, I'd love to see quick docs, with itemized lists of what do we want to achieve, who owns those items, etc. e.g. for articles, it'd be nice to have something like this: Magazines: - No contact at the moment: o SysAdmin - Frank Wiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent a proposal o DrDobbs - currently unwilling to have mp articles o Linux Jrnl - need to ask - Active contacts: o The Perl Review - perrin writes a monthly column o The Perl Magazine - geoff is working on the Oct article o perl.com - stas is going to write the article for Sep 12. - People willing to write articles/stories o Perrin ... o Philippe ... The data is fake of course at the moment. We create another file for PR efforts, etc. What do you think? We put these files under cvs modperl-docs and we sync the discussions here with these files. It's hard to understand what's happening from emails, it's easier to track that via files. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Introduction
Doran Barton wrote: Hi, Jason (Jayce^) got back from OSCON and told me about the BOF and then I saw the e-mail Philippe sent to the modperl list. I'm anxious to be involved! As such, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Doran Barton, but I also go by the moniker Fozz, Fozz Moo, or Fozziliny George Moo. I've been writing code in Perl exclusively for seven years now. I was fully converted to Perl from other languages when I was an I.T. intern for SGI/Cray Research in 1997. Since 1999 or so, I've been involved with dozens of different mod_perl projects and have taught workshops through local users groups on Perl, web development with Perl, and mod_perl. Since 1998, I've operated a Linux/Web/Marketing consulting shop (Iodynamics) in Utah with three other partners who are nowhere near as technical as I am. We have done all our projects in mod_perl2 (and mod_perl1 before that) for the last year or so and continue to find it is amazing. Excellent. Welcome, Doran. What can I do to help? Jayce^ said a lot of help is needed in the documentation department. I can certainly help there. What else? General advocacy? Someone should write a feature for SysAdmin or other publications showing off the beauty and power of MP2. Just listen to the ideas on the list and raise your hand when you want to handle any of those. Of course initiatives are more than welcome. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Public Relations
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site? All the people with write privileges to the modperl-site are : stas,cholet,ask,randyk,dougm,geoff,gozer, rse,fdc,khera,richter,ix,dharris,jochen,ged, perrin,moseley,pereinar,theory Actually it's not the case. modperl-site is a legacy repository which exists for the only reason of Gerald not moving his embperl docs over/away. Otherwise modperl-site is dead. modperl-docs is the new repository which is the base of what you see at perl.apache.org. So the perms are probabaly different for that rep. For more information see: http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html Jeff, if you will start sending patching, very quickly you will get a commit access to make you more productive. That applies for anybody else who wants to contribute :) -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ping
Jeff Bisbee wrote: Just seeing if I can get through... looks like my first attempt was sent to /dev/null ... both your emails got through, Jeff. I guess apache.org has some delays in delivering email. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSCON Advocacy BOF notes
Frank Wiles wrote: Hi Everyone, [...] Excellent work, Frank! I don't remember seeing you taking any notes at the BOF. You must have an excellent memory to remember *all* that a week later. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OSCON Advocacy BOF notes
Perrin Harkins wrote: On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 10:06, Frank Wiles wrote: Tie the majority of our PR campaign to the release of mp2 I don't know if anyone saw this in eWeek, but the recent Bricolage review listed "only works with older version of apache" as a negative for Bric. Since we can't fight ignorant reporters effectively, I am now convinced of the important of an official mp2 release, even if we mark it as beta for win32 and threaded MPMs. mp2 is not yet released neither because of win32 issues, nor because of threaded mpms. There is still work to do. It is all listed in modperl-2.0/todo/release, once that file is empty, we are good to go with the release. It all depends on the availability of Geoff and Philippe on how fast we can get it empty. Of course others can chime in and help accomplish that earlier. Releasing a knowingly broken software is not good. -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: test 123
Frank Wiles wrote: On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 01:16:47 -0700 Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: test, please ignore! looks like we are alive and kicking :) It's time to let the modperl list know about our new world domination planning at this list and let folks a few days to join over, before the we start the march. Sounds good. I'll post the notes from the BOF to kick off the dicussion once a couple of days have gone by. Excellent! Thanks Frank -- ______ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: test 123
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote: test, please ignore! looks like we are alive and kicking :) It's time to let the modperl list know about our new world domination planning at this list and let folks a few days to join over, before the we start the march. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
