Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I'm on the county health board here, they are extremely worried about what
is to come. They say the "peak" and "flattening" isn't expected till Mid
May. They have not released that to the public yet because they don't want
to create panic but sounds like this lockdown could be a new way of life
for at least a few months. They are also talking about the possibility of
refrigerated semi trailers for the dead bodies if they get that many. Our
county population is over 40,000 and between the two hospitals here they
have only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1 percent of the population
here needs critical care that is over 200 people. The two hospitals here
are only setup for a couple dozen ICU beds each. Traditionally trauma
patients that come in here are forwarded to one of the bigger cities which
will not be an option due to overstretched resources in the bigger cities
and them having even bigger problems than us. Consider that some of the
data suggests 10-20% of the infected will need hospitalized you start to
grasp the real threat to the healthcare system. Trump knows all this, he
was probably briefed with the numbers over a month ago. He would not be
tanking the economy right now if this wasn't a real threat of happening. If
it wasn't for the travel ban we would probably be right there with Italy as
we speak...

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...
>>
>> On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>> are you saying that you're not revolting now?   Makes me think of the 3
>>> Stooges line "I resemble that remark"..
>>>
>>> Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to revolt?  Hmmm  I
>>> thought you meant people were going to be revolting and most people already
>>> are.
>>> --
>>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:37:51 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>>
>>> Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
>>> people revolting (myself included).
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month -
 month and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of
 walking infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually
 test for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.


 bp
 


 On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years
 and people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to
 find something else.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *"Bill Prince"  
 *To: *af@af.afmug.com
 *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try
 and flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having
 symptoms will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I
 don't think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.


 bp
 


 On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

 Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?

 We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
 international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
 course, or so it seems to me.

 I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
 hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
 isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
 organically as people get sick of staying home?


 On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

 I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic

 The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
 hidden numbers of magnitude

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Mathew Howard]

It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...
>
> On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard  wrote:
>
>> are you saying that you're not revolting now?   Makes me think of the 3
>> Stooges line "I resemble that remark"..
>>
>> Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to revolt?  Hmmm  I
>> thought you meant people were going to be revolting and most people already
>> are.
>> --
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:37:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>
>> Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
>> people revolting (myself included).
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month -
>>> month and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of
>>> walking infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually
>>> test for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>> With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and
>>> people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
>>> something else.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
>>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>>
>>> The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and
>>> flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms
>>> will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't
>>> think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>>>
>>> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
>>> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
>>> course, or so it seems to me.
>>>
>>> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
>>> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
>>> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
>>> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>>>
>>> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
>>> hidden numbers of magnitude
>>>
>>> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>>>
>>> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
>>> attributed to flu
>>> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
>>> rates this year
>>>
>>> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
>>> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
>>> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
>>> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
>>> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
>>> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
>>> percent of them actually are.
>>>
>>> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from
>>> the swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there
>>> are less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
>>> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>>>
>>> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island
>>> infected now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do
>>> we have a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of
>>> indigent on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having
>>> locked up such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole
>>> other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Jason McKemie]

People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...

On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard  wrote:

> are you saying that you're not revolting now?   Makes me think of the 3
> Stooges line "I resemble that remark"..
>
> Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to revolt?  Hmmm  I
> thought you meant people were going to be revolting and most people already
> are.
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:37:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
> Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
> people revolting (myself included).
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month -
>> month and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of
>> walking infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually
>> test for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and
>> people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
>> something else.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>
>> The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and
>> flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms
>> will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't
>> think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>>
>> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
>> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
>> course, or so it seems to me.
>>
>> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
>> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
>> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
>> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>>
>> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
>> hidden numbers of magnitude
>>
>> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>>
>> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
>> attributed to flu
>> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
>> rates this year
>>
>> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
>> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
>> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
>> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
>> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
>> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
>> percent of them actually are.
>>
>> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
>> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
>> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
>> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>>
>> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island
>> infected now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do
>> we have a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of
>> indigent on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having
>> locked up such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole
>> other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that
>> having helped their situation.
>>
>> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
>> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Jason McKemie]

So let's test everyone and move on with business.

On Thursday, March 19, 2020, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Study in Iceland (which is testing a ton more people than we are) finds
> about half of those who test positive were asymptomatic.
>
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/coronavirus-testing-iceland
>
>
>
> A small town in Italy tested everyone and found the same thing.  And when
> they isolated the asymptomatic people, the new cases went to zero.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-
> say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19
>
>
>
> “We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and
> eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti,
> an infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò
> project, told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”
>
> The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic
> people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been
> discovered,” said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly
> infected other inhabitants.
>
> “The percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the
> population is very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor of clinical
> immunology at the University of Florence, in a letter to the authorities.
> “The isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the
> spread of the virus and the severity of the disease.”
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
>
> Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
> people revolting (myself included).
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month - month
> and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of walking
> infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually test
> for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and
> people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
> something else.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
> The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and
> flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms
> will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't
> think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
>
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
>
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
>
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
>
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
>
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
>
>
> We 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[James Howard]

are you saying that you're not revolting now?   Makes me think of the 3 Stooges 
line "I resemble that remark"..

Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to revolt?  Hmmm  I thought 
you meant people were going to be revolting and most people already are.

From: AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie 

Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:37:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have people 
revolting (myself included).

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month - month and 
a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of walking infections 
without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually test for it. After 
that, it's a crap shoot.


bp




On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and people 
only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find something 
else.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies


The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and 
flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms will 
become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't think we 
can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.


bp




On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?


On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such 
that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected now, 
we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of 
criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the 
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

I hope people take it seriously. Not from the viral threat, but because of
what happens if they dont. The next phase of parenting is the belt.

This has to be the greatest global experiment that Ill ever see in my
lifetime. Once its over and the politics have stopped, the nerds will start
nerding with the data collected on all the control groups and all the test
groups. I think about every approach to pandemic has been put in play in
all the areas globally. They will learn so much about how a pandemic
spreads, how fear spreads a pandemic, how the media can sow fear to spread
a pandemic, how the governments can ebb and flow a pandemic one press
conference at a time, or lack there of. Financial nerds will be studying
the stock market for years to come. Money guys will become trillionaires,
When its all said and done the nerds will have the answers on the best ways
to respond to issues of global scale and get them under control
efficiently. ... nobody will listen, they never listen to the nerds, theres
no money or political gain in it


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 9:51 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Entire state of California is now "shelter in place". Guvna says it is a
> moment in time, and an effort to flatten the curve.
>
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/california-governor-issues-statewide-order-to-stay-at-home-effective-thursday-evening.html
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 7:02 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Study in Iceland (which is testing a ton more people than we are) finds
> about half of those who test positive were asymptomatic.
>
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/coronavirus-testing-iceland
>
>
>
> A small town in Italy tested everyone and found the same thing.  And when
> they isolated the asymptomatic people, the new cases went to zero.
>
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19
>
>
>
> “We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and
> eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti,
> an infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò
> project, told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”
>
> The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic
> people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been
> discovered,” said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly
> infected other inhabitants.
>
> “The percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the
> population is very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor of clinical
> immunology at the University of Florence, in a letter to the authorities.
> “The isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the
> spread of the virus and the severity of the disease.”
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
>
> Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
> people revolting (myself included).
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month - month
> and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of walking
> infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually test
> for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and
> people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
> something else.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
> The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and
> flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms
> will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't
> think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Entire state of California is now "shelter in place". Guvna says
  it is a moment in time, and an effort to flatten the curve.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/california-governor-issues-statewide-order-to-stay-at-home-effective-thursday-evening.html
bp



On 3/19/2020 7:02 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Study in Iceland (which is testing a ton
  more people than we are) finds about half of those who test
  positive were asymptomatic.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/coronavirus-testing-iceland
 
A small town in Italy tested everyone and
  found the same thing.  And when they isolated the asymptomatic
  people, the new cases went to zero.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19
 
“We
were able to contain the outbreak here, because we
identified and eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and
isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at
Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò project,
told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the
difference.”
The
research allowed for the identification of at least six
asymptomatic people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If
these people had not been discovered,” said the researchers,
they would probably have unknowingly infected other
inhabitants.
“The
percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the
population is very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor
of clinical immunology at the University of Florence, in a
letter to the authorities. “The isolation of asymptomatics
is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus
and the severity of the disease.”
 
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Jason
  McKemie
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:38 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
 

  Yeah, you can't have businesses closed
past then or you're going to have people revolting (myself
included).

 

  
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill
  Prince 
  wrote:
  
  

  The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or
maybe a month - month and a half. At that point, we
should have reduced the number of walking infections
without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually
test for it. After that, it's a crap shoot. 
   
  bp
  
   
  
On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett
  wrote:
  
  

  With
  "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected
  to take years and people only able to half pay
  attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
  something else.
  


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
  Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  
  
From:
"Bill
Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45
PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
The
"plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term
isolation to try and flatten the curve. With
that, all the infected people not having
symptoms will become immune (to some extent) and
no longer be contagious. I don't think we can
keep people bottled up for more than a few
weeks.
 
bp

 

  On
  3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Ken Hohhof]

Study in Iceland (which is testing a ton more people than we are) finds about 
half of those who test positive were asymptomatic.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/coronavirus-testing-iceland

 

A small town in Italy tested everyone and found the same thing.  And when they 
isolated the asymptomatic people, the new cases went to zero.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19

 

“We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and 
eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti, an 
infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò project, 
told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”

The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic people 
who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been discovered,” 
said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly infected other 
inhabitants.

“The percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is 
very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor of clinical immunology at the 
University of Florence, in a letter to the authorities. “The isolation of 
asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and 
the severity of the disease.”

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have people 
revolting (myself included).

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month - month and 
a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of walking infections 
without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually test for it. After 
that, it's a crap shoot. 

 

bp

 

On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and people 
only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find something 
else.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions  
   
  
  
 
Midwest Internet Exchange  
   
  
 
The Brothers WISP  
   
 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince"   
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and 
flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms will 
become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't think we 
can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.

 

bp

 

On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?

 

On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

 

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

 

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

 

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu

There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

 

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

 

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Jason McKemie]

Yeah, you can't have businesses closed past then or you're going to have
people revolting (myself included).

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a month - month
> and a half. At that point, we should have reduced the number of walking
> infections without symptoms, and maybe have the ability to actually test
> for it. After that, it's a crap shoot.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and
> people only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find
> something else.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
> The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and
> flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms
> will become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't
> think we can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>
> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
> now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
> a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
> on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
> such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
> rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
> helped their situation.
>
> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
>> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
>> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
>> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
>> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
>> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
>> at this point.
>>
>> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
>> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
>> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
>> and I don't 

Re: [AFMUG] OT from my science teacher daughter

[Steve Jones]

Truer words were never spoken.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 4:10 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> HA!
>
> nice one ;-)
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:07 PM  wrote:
>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT from my science teacher daughter

[Sean Heskett]

HA!

nice one ;-)

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:07 PM  wrote:

> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT from my science teacher daughter

[chuck]

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

im watching deblasio, I do not like this guy. He seems to not have a plan
for his demands.
I dont think he knows he lost his bid for potus
Guys like him are making things so much worse with the incessant chicken
littling.
Im not sure what he thinks sending everyone to NY is going to do when
theres no actual response plan from him. There are big cities around the
US. There are small cities suffering too, but apparently people in small
towns dont matter.
Apparently an entire medical ship, in his eyes is nothing

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:47 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Governor of Texas shuttered every bar and restaurant for a few weeks. Take
> it and drive through only.
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 3:33 PM  wrote:
>
>> The worse it gets, the better behaved we will be.
>>
>> *From:* castarritt .
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:15 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>
>> Here is the long term plan:
>>
>>
>> https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
>>
>>
>> TLDR:
>>
>> Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the
>> healthcare system collapses.
>>
>> Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the
>> curve, and maybe a million Americans die.
>>
>> Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut
>> down for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.
>>
>> It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we
>> might develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the
>> death toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody
>> test now, and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe
>> from the virus, and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people
>> will be able to go back to work.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>>>
>>> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
>>> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
>>> course, or so it seems to me.
>>>
>>> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
>>> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
>>> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
>>> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>>>
>>> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
>>> hidden numbers of magnitude
>>>
>>> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>>>
>>> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
>>> attributed to flu
>>> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
>>> rates this year
>>>
>>> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
>>> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
>>> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
>>> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
>>> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
>>> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
>>> percent of them actually are.
>>>
>>> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from
>>> the swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there
>>> are less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
>>> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>>>
>>> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island
>>> infected now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do
>>> we have a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of
>>> indigent on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having
>>> locked up such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole
>>> other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that
>>> having helped their situation.
>>>
>>> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
>>> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's
 really just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off
 what other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported
 are almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than
 most of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak
 than most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Lewis Bergman]

Governor of Texas shuttered every bar and restaurant for a few weeks. Take
it and drive through only.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 3:33 PM  wrote:

> The worse it gets, the better behaved we will be.
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:15 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
> Here is the long term plan:
>
>
> https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
>
>
> TLDR:
>
> Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the
> healthcare system collapses.
>
> Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the curve,
> and maybe a million Americans die.
>
> Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut
> down for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.
>
> It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we
> might develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the
> death toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody
> test now, and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe
> from the virus, and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people
> will be able to go back to work.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>>
>> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
>> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
>> course, or so it seems to me.
>>
>> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
>> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
>> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
>> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>>
>> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
>> hidden numbers of magnitude
>>
>> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>>
>> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
>> attributed to flu
>> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
>> rates this year
>>
>> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
>> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
>> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
>> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
>> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
>> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
>> percent of them actually are.
>>
>> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
>> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
>> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
>> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>>
>> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island
>> infected now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do
>> we have a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of
>> indigent on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having
>> locked up such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole
>> other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that
>> having helped their situation.
>>
>> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
>> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's
>>> really just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off
>>> what other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported
>>> are almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than
>>> most of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak
>>> than most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low
>>> numbers at this point.
>>>
>>> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
>>> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
>>> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
>>> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
>>> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
>>> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on
 NPR this morning about mass 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Vaccine is at least a year away. Probably longer.


bp



On 3/19/2020 1:41 PM, James Howard
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
That
is the “non pharmaceutical” plan.  Once a vaccine is in
place and a certain percentage are vaccinated things will
start going back to normal and any subsequent deaths will
clearly be seasonal flu related……..
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
  

 

  

  The
  worse it gets, the better behaved we will be.


  

   


  
From:
castarritt .

  
  
Sent:
Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:15 PM
  
  
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
  

  
  
 
  


  
Here
is the long term plan:


   


  https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf 
  
  TLDR:


   


  Option
  1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a
  few months as the healthcare system collapses.


   


  Option 2:
  Do some quarantining and social distancing to
  flatten the curve, and maybe a million Americans
  die.
  
  Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the
  spread.  Keep everything shut down for ~18 months
  until everyone is vaccinated.


  It
  looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now. 
  With any luck, we might develop some effective
  treatments for the virus that would lessen the
  death toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they
  have developed an antibody test now, and anyone
  who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe
  from the virus, and unable to spread it to others,
  so at least those people will be able to go back
  to work.


   

  
  
 
  
  

  On
  Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett 
  wrote:


  
Has
anybody laid out what the long term plan is?

We
can't keep everybody at home forever and we
can't stop all international trade and travel so
sooner or later the virus has to run it's
course, or so it seems to me.
I
know we're trying to slow down the spread so we
don't overwhelm the hospital capacity and that's
great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
isolation over time in a controlled way, or will
social isolation end organically as people get
sick of staying home?
 

  On
  3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  
I
dont know how many times i need to point out
this logic

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The isolation can not last more than a few weeks, or maybe a
  month - month and a half. At that point, we should have reduced
  the number of walking infections without symptoms, and maybe have
  the ability to actually test for it. After that, it's a crap
  shoot. 



bp



On 3/19/2020 1:18 PM, Mike Hammett
  wrote:


  
  
  With "flatten the curve" as your primary
tool expected to take years and people only able to half pay
attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find something else.


  
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  
  Midwest Internet Exchange
  
  The Brothers WISP
  


  


From:
  "Bill Prince" 
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
  
  The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term
isolation to try and flatten the curve. With that, all the
infected people not having symptoms will become immune (to
some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't think we
can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks.
  
  
  bp



  On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam
Moffett wrote:
  
  
Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 
We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop
  all international trade and travel so sooner or later the
  virus has to run it's course, or so it seems to me.
I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't
  overwhelm the hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we
  going to somehow reduce social isolation over time in a
  controlled way, or will social isolation end organically
  as people get sick of staying home?



On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve
  Jones wrote:


  I dont know how many times i need to point
out this logic


The US is undercounted, thats a given.
  undercounting does not equate hidden numbers of
  magnitude


Heres the logic thats completely being ignored


The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent
  tested would have been attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths
  per the anticipated rates this year


The testing that has been done is very promising.
  Yesterdays counts of those tested were running around
  8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 percent
  of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can
  just go get a test for curiousity" argument further
  strengthens this as a promising number. The ONLY
  people being tested for the most part, are those in
  the very high probability category. So of those
  assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of them
  actually are.


We still havent hit globally the number of
  infections and deaths from the swine flu in the US
  alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
  less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US
  ALONE. The current response is such that has never
  been seen in the history of the planet.


Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at
  rikers island infected now, we have a national issue.
  if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of
  criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands
  of indigent on the streets in the middle of a
  pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a
  percentage of the population in the first place is a
  whole other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the
  streets, i cant imagine that having helped their
  situation.


Morons on spring break making a point of
  interacting even more than they normally would have is
  illogical enough to eliminate any logic.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[James Howard]

That is the "non pharmaceutical" plan.  Once a vaccine is in place and a 
certain percentage are vaccinated things will start going back to normal and 
any subsequent deaths will clearly be seasonal flu related

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

The worse it gets, the better behaved we will be.

From: castarritt .
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Here is the long term plan:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

TLDR:

Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the 
healthcare system collapses.

Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the curve, and 
maybe a million Americans die.

Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut down 
for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.
It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we might 
develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the death 
toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody test now, 
and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe from the virus, 
and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people will be able to go 
back to work.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?


On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such 
that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected now, 
we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of 
criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the 
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.





On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really just 
starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it certainly 
wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all depends on 
what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I don't trust any 
information from or about North Korea, no matter what the source is, but the 
high level of government control over everything in North Korea could certainly 
give them an advantage in this situation.



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[chuck]

The worse it gets, the better behaved we will be.

From: castarritt . 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Here is the long term plan: 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
 

TLDR:

Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the 
healthcare system collapses.

Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the curve, and 
maybe a million Americans die.

Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut down 
for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.


It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we might 
develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the death 
toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody test now, 
and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe from the virus, 
and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people will be able to go 
back to work.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

  We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

  I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the 
hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social 
isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end 
organically as people get sick of staying home?




  On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of 
those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the 
swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less 
sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is 
such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected 
now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a 
ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on 
the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.





On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really 
just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

  But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it 
certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all 
depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I 
don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what the 
source is, but the high level of government control over everything in North 
Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.




  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on 
NPR this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before 
we understand the scope of this.



bp


On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.  

Re: [AFMUG] Free standing 25g on roof (one section)

[Jason Wilson]

Take a look at this to get the creative juices flowing.

https://www.ispsupplies.com/RF-Armor-NPM30WM

I carry one in stock pretty much at all times.  Consider mounting
similar with ballasts to a trailer and put up 2 sections, it will get rid
of the rooftop issue.



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:28 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Working on a possible project and limiting to inventory on hand. We may
> want to put some EPMP clusters on a piece of 25g on some roofs. 2 of the
> roofs may be problematic as they are steel commercial roof with a pitch and
> steel ridgecap.
>
> We have a pile of 25g sections on hand and a handful of baseplates. on the
> flat roofs I could probably just frame out a ballast tray from angle iron
> and fasten the baseplate right to that couldnt I? 10 foot freestanding
>
> A peak sled could be fashioned over the steel roofs, maybe, but
> historically we tend to just stay off steel altogether, especially if
> its pitched.
>
> Aside from chuck, who can make everything. out of normal onhand items most
> of us have in the dead junk rooms, how would you get 10' sticks of 25g to
> stay put with that kind of wind load? We have been deploying 3k sectors
> with the smart antennas, but i think in this projects case i would
> forego them to limit windload.
>
> Most of these roofs are relatively short, 20-40'
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Mike Hammett]

With "flatten the curve" as your primary tool expected to take years and people 
only able to half pay attention for a few weeks, we'll have to find something 
else. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:54:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies 


The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to try and 
flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not having symptoms will 
become immune (to some extent) and no longer be contagious. I don't think we 
can keep people bottled up for more than a few weeks. 

bp
 
On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 



Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 
We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me. 
I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great. Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation over 
time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as people 
get sick of staying home? 



On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 



I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 


The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude 


Heres the logic thats completely being ignored 


The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu 
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year 


The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are. 


We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such 
that has never been seen in the history of the planet. 


Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected now, 
we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of 
criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the 
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation. 


Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic. 










On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really just 
starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point. 


But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it certainly 
wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all depends on 
what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I don't trust any 
information from or about North Korea, no matter what the source is, but the 
high level of government control over everything in North Korea could certainly 
give them an advantage in this situation. 







On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR this 
morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before we 
understand the scope of this. 

bp
 
On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering up. 
Especially in the labor camps. Communal sleeping barns etc. No sanitation 
facilities. 




From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies 


Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate that 
deaths have been incorrectly attributed, 
bp
 
On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote: 


the death count is the death count 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[castarritt .]

Here is the long term plan:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf


TLDR:

Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the
healthcare system collapses.

Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the curve,
and maybe a million Americans die.

Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut
down for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.

It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we
might develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the
death toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody
test now, and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe
from the virus, and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people
will be able to go back to work.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>
> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
> now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
> a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
> on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
> such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
> rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
> helped their situation.
>
> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
>> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
>> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
>> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
>> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
>> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
>> at this point.
>>
>> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
>> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
>> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
>> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
>> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
>> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
>>> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
>>> we understand the scope of this.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering
>>> up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No
>>> sanitation facilities.
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Ken Hohhof]

Try Googling “The Coronavirus Is Here to Stay, So What Happens Next?”

 

It seems like links from Google are often exempt from paywalls.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Carl Peterson
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

My wife subscribes to the NYT, but I don't bother to log in.  Just let it start 
to load the story then stop it before it loads the paywall. 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Paywall...

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:56 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

I don’t know if this will be behind a paywall or not, but it says there will be 
several waves until eventually enough people have immunity or there is a virus 
or treatment.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing-effect.html

 

It says “opinion” but it’s by 3 doctors, none of whom is named Oz or Phil.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?

 

On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

 

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

 

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

 

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu

There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

 

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

 

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such 
that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

 

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected now, 
we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of 
criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the 
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

 

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really just 
starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

 

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it certainly 
wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all depends on 
what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I don't trust any 
information from or about North Korea, no matter what the source is, but the 
high level of government control over everything in North Korea could certainly 
give them an advantage in this situation.

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR this 
morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before we 
understand the scope of this.

 

bp

 

On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 

Re: [AFMUG] Free standing 25g on roof (one section)

[Ken Hohhof]

That sounds like an insurance claim waiting to happen.  I would be more 
optimistic if it was a flat roof, or if you were going to use guy wires.  No 
way to put the 25G on the side of the building?

 

I know you said inventory on hand, but the only way I can think of to get 10 
feet above a peaked roof with a nonpen mount would be one of these:

 

https://www.bairdmounts.com/products/wireless/complete-list/Universal-Ridgemount-10-ft/Universal-Ridgemount,-4.50-O.D.-x-10-Mast-w-Pad?pid=1795
 

 =91

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Free standing 25g on roof (one section)

 

Working on a possible project and limiting to inventory on hand. We may want to 
put some EPMP clusters on a piece of 25g on some roofs. 2 of the roofs may be 
problematic as they are steel commercial roof with a pitch and steel ridgecap.

 

We have a pile of 25g sections on hand and a handful of baseplates. on the flat 
roofs I could probably just frame out a ballast tray from angle iron and fasten 
the baseplate right to that couldnt I? 10 foot freestanding

 

A peak sled could be fashioned over the steel roofs, maybe, but historically we 
tend to just stay off steel altogether, especially if its pitched.

 

Aside from chuck, who can make everything. out of normal onhand items most of 
us have in the dead junk rooms, how would you get 10' sticks of 25g to stay put 
with that kind of wind load? We have been deploying 3k sectors with the smart 
antennas, but i think in this projects case i would forego them to limit 
windload.

 

Most of these roofs are relatively short, 20-40'

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Re: [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact

[Mathew Howard]

I've soldered a ground wire onto thesis a few times, but I like Steve's
approach better... much easier to change it later, or to move it to a
chassis.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:01 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Looks OK to me.
>
>
>
> I assume you want to use the modules later in a chassis, but you could
> just surface-solder a wire to the PCB.  Just don’t get crazy with the heat
> and delaminate the copper foil from the glass epoxy board.  I’d bet you
> could clean the solder off later with some solder wick and the modules
> would be fine.
>
>
>
> But I don’t see anything wrong with your approach.  Let’s face it, while
> the grounding scolds tell you to use stuff like 10 AWG ground wires, the
> Cat5 wires are only 24 AWG.  I think the heavy wire is more for the length
> than the current carrying capacity.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact
>
>
>
> If I needed some gigabit surge suppressors in a pinch and all I had on
> hand were the apc cards, but no enclosure, how much surface contact would I
> need for these to be effective? Would this work? I'm assuming it's not
> enough contact.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Carl Peterson]

My wife subscribes to the NYT, but I don't bother to log in.  Just let it
start to load the story then stop it before it loads the paywall.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:59 PM  wrote:

> Paywall...
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:56 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
> I don’t know if this will be behind a paywall or not, but it says there
> will be several waves until eventually enough people have immunity or there
> is a virus or treatment.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing-effect.html
>
>
>
> It says “opinion” but it’s by 3 doctors, none of whom is named Oz or Phil.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:50 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
>
> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
>
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
>
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
>
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
>
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
>
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
>
>
> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>
>
>
> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
> now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
> a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
> on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
> such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
> rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
> helped their situation.
>
>
>
> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
> at this point.
>
>
>
> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
> we understand the scope of this.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering up.
> Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation
> facilities.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
>
> Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data 

Re: [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact

[Ken Hohhof]

Looks OK to me.

 

I assume you want to use the modules later in a chassis, but you could just 
surface-solder a wire to the PCB.  Just don’t get crazy with the heat and 
delaminate the copper foil from the glass epoxy board.  I’d bet you could clean 
the solder off later with some solder wick and the modules would be fine.

 

But I don’t see anything wrong with your approach.  Let’s face it, while the 
grounding scolds tell you to use stuff like 10 AWG ground wires, the Cat5 wires 
are only 24 AWG.  I think the heavy wire is more for the length than the 
current carrying capacity.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact

 

If I needed some gigabit surge suppressors in a pinch and all I had on hand 
were the apc cards, but no enclosure, how much surface contact would I need for 
these to be effective? Would this work? I'm assuming it's not enough contact.

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[chuck]

Paywall...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:56 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

I don’t know if this will be behind a paywall or not, but it says there will be 
several waves until eventually enough people have immunity or there is a virus 
or treatment.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing-effect.html

 

It says “opinion” but it’s by 3 doctors, none of whom is named Oz or Phil.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?

 

On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

   

  The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

   

  Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

   

  The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu

  There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

   

  The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

   

  We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the 
swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less 
sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is 
such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

   

  Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected 
now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a 
ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on 
the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

   

  Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.

   

   

   

   

   

  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really 
just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

 

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it 
certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all 
depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I 
don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what the 
source is, but the high level of government control over everything in North 
Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR 
this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before we 
understand the scope of this.

   

bp On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate 
that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,

bp On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

  the death count is the death count




-- 
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

When it passes everyone will forget, like every other time it happens, even
with the historic global response.

There are going to be a huge number of booming industries created. Remote
workplace was on the rise, but still niche, it will become norm (its so
much cheaper)

we will see what comes from the first trillionaires that will be coming out
of the stock market recovery. They will effectively have more money than
god and will be able to dictate a whole lot of what happens, good or bad,
depending on what type of person they are.



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>
> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
> now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
> a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
> on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
> such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
> rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
> helped their situation.
>
> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
>> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
>> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
>> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
>> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
>> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
>> at this point.
>>
>> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
>> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
>> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
>> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
>> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
>> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
>>> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
>>> we understand the scope of this.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering
>>> up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No
>>> sanitation facilities.
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>>
>>>
>>> Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate
>>> that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> the death count is the death count
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t know if this will be behind a paywall or not, but it says there will be 
several waves until eventually enough people have immunity or there is a virus 
or treatment.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing-effect.html

 

It says “opinion” but it’s by 3 doctors, none of whom is named Oz or Phil.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?

 

On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

 

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

 

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

 

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu

There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

 

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

 

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the swine 
flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick 
and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such 
that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

 

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected now, 
we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of 
criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the 
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

 

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really just 
starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

 

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it certainly 
wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all depends on 
what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I don't trust any 
information from or about North Korea, no matter what the source is, but the 
high level of government control over everything in North Korea could certainly 
give them an advantage in this situation.

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR this 
morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before we 
understand the scope of this.

 

bp

 

On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering up.  
Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation 
facilities.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate that 
deaths have been incorrectly attributed,

bp

 

On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count


  _  


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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The "plan" (no jokes please) seems to be short term isolation to
  try and flatten the curve. With that, all the infected people not
  having symptoms will become immune (to some extent) and no longer
  be contagious. I don't think we can keep people bottled up for
  more than a few weeks.


bp



On 3/19/2020 12:49 PM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 
  We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has
to run it's course, or so it seems to me.
  I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't
overwhelm the hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going
to somehow reduce social isolation over time in a controlled
way, or will social isolation end organically as people get sick
of staying home?
  
  
  
  On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
  
  

I dont know how many times i need to point out
  this logic
  
  
  The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does
not equate hidden numbers of magnitude
  
  
  Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
  
  
  The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested
would have been attributed to flu
  There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the
anticipated rates this year
  
  
  The testing that has been done is very promising.
Yesterdays counts of those tested were running around 8
percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 percent of the
population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get
a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as
a promising number. The ONLY people being tested for the
most part, are those in the very high probability category.
So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of them
actually are.
  
  
  We still havent hit globally the number of infections and
deaths from the swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate
this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less sick and dead, than from
swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is such that
has never been seen in the history of the planet.
  
  
  Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at
rikers island infected now, we have a national issue. if we
dump the prisons, not only do we have a ton of criminals on
the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on the
streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having
locked up such a percentage of the population in the first
place is a whole other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on
the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their
situation.
  
  
  Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even
more than they normally would have is illogical enough to
eliminate any logic.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  



  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00
PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
  
  

  I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly
inaccurate... it's really just starting to spread there
now, and the numbers aren't far off what other countries
reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border
controls than most of the world, and they're going on
lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries
did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low
numbers at this point.
  
  
  But who knows what's really going on in some of these
countries... it certainly wouldn't surprise me if China
is lying about their numbers, it all depends on what
they think is in their best interests at this point, and
I don't trust any information from or about North Korea,
no matter what the source is, but the high level of
government control over everything in North Korea could
certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
  
  
  
  
  



  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at
1:42 PM Bill Prince 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[chuck]

Well since China in the town where this started reported no new cases, it 
appears it has run its course there.  4 months.
One would hope we can improve on that 4 month a bit.  Hopefully no longer than 
4 months from the first reported case.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is? 

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all international 
trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's course, or so it 
seems to me.

I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the hospital 
capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social isolation 
over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end organically as 
people get sick of staying home?




On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic 

  The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden 
numbers of magnitude

  Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

  The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu
  There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates 
this year

  The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of those 
tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate to 8 
percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go get a 
test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising number. 
The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the very high 
probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of 
them actually are.

  We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the 
swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are less 
sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current response is 
such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

  Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected 
now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have a 
ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent on 
the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up such a 
percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran 
dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having helped their 
situation.

  Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they 
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.





  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really 
just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what other 
countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are almost all in 
Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most of the world, and 
they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did... 
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it 
certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it all 
depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point, and I 
don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what the 
source is, but the high level of government control over everything in North 
Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.




On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR 
this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before we 
understand the scope of this.



bp


On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate 
that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

  the death count is the death count


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Re: [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact

[chuck]

That will work or you can just solder a ground wire onto that tab.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Wb Surge suppressor surface contact

If I needed some gigabit surge suppressors in a pinch and all I had on hand 
were the apc cards, but no enclosure, how much surface contact would I need for 
these to be effective? Would this work? I'm assuming it's not enough contact. 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?

We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all 
international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run 
it's course, or so it seems to me.


I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the 
hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce 
social isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation 
end organically as people get sick of staying home?



On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate 
hidden numbers of magnitude


Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been 
attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated 
rates this year


The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of 
those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT 
equate to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody 
can just go get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens 
this as a promising number. The ONLY people being tested for the most 
part, are those in the very high probability category. So of those 
assumed to be infected, only 8 percent of them actually are.


We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from 
the swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, 
there are less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The 
current response is such that has never been seen in the history of 
the planet.


Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island 
infected now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not 
only do we have a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of 
thousands of indigent on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. 
(maybe not having locked up such a percentage of the population in the 
first place is a whole other OT rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the 
streets, i cant imagine that having helped their situation.


Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than 
they normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.






On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard > wrote:


I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's
really just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't
far off what other countries reported early on, and the cases they
have reported are almost all in Moscow. They also have much
tighter border controls than most of the world, and they're going
on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than most countries did...
so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers at this point.

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries...
it certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their
numbers, it all depends on what they think is in their best
interests at this point, and I don't trust any information from or
about North Korea, no matter what the source is, but the high
level of government control over everything in North Korea could
certainly give them an advantage in this situation.



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard
something on NPR this morning about mass graves in Iran. It
may be years (or never) before we understand the scope of this.


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are
covering up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal
sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation facilities.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data
to indicate that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,

bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count



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[AFMUG] Free standing 25g on roof (one section)

[Steve Jones]

Working on a possible project and limiting to inventory on hand. We may
want to put some EPMP clusters on a piece of 25g on some roofs. 2 of the
roofs may be problematic as they are steel commercial roof with a pitch and
steel ridgecap.

We have a pile of 25g sections on hand and a handful of baseplates. on the
flat roofs I could probably just frame out a ballast tray from angle iron
and fasten the baseplate right to that couldnt I? 10 foot freestanding

A peak sled could be fashioned over the steel roofs, maybe, but
historically we tend to just stay off steel altogether, especially if
its pitched.

Aside from chuck, who can make everything. out of normal onhand items most
of us have in the dead junk rooms, how would you get 10' sticks of 25g to
stay put with that kind of wind load? We have been deploying 3k sectors
with the smart antennas, but i think in this projects case i would
forego them to limit windload.

Most of these roofs are relatively short, 20-40'
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic

The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate hidden
numbers of magnitude

Heres the logic thats completely being ignored

The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
attributed to flu
There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated rates
this year

The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
percent of them actually are.

We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.

Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
helped their situation.

Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.





On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
> at this point.
>
> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
>> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
>> we understand the scope of this.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering
>> up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No
>> sanitation facilities.
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>>
>>
>> Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate
>> that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>
>> the death count is the death count
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

There's a satellite picture of a cemetery in Iran where they dug 
trenches and have a pile of something white nearby.  Presumed to be a 
burial pit and a pile of lime.  It could be a mass grave or preparation 
for a mass grave.  I don't know if that's assumed or if it's a fact.



On 3/19/2020 2:41 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on 
NPR this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) 
before we understand the scope of this.



bp


On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps. Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to 
indicate that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Mathew Howard]

I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
at this point.

But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
> we understand the scope of this.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering up.
> Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation
> facilities.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
>
>
> Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate
> that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:
>
> the death count is the death count
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT..Just because

[Mathew Howard]

Is it really ever too early?

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:20 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Fridge...too early
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 12:11 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> Where is the Tecate?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:06 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT..Just because
>>
>>
>>
>> Buen dia raza
>> --
>>
>> *Total Control Panel*
>>
>> Login 
>>
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> 
>>
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com
>>  is on your allow list.*
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something
  on NPR this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or
  never) before we understand the scope of this.


bp



On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they
are covering up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal
sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation facilities.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies
  

 
  
  
Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of
  data to indicate that deaths have been incorrectly
  attributed,

bp



On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James
  Howard wrote:

the
death count is the death count



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

They also might have the the tightest borders on the planet and a regime 
crazy enough to do just about anything.  They might have a big problem 
or none at all.



On 3/19/2020 2:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to 
indicate that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe drinking vodka instead of rubbing it on your hands prevents Covid19.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:03 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

 

As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous anomalies WRT 
cases vs population vs deaths.

At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has the highest per 
capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths). In a few days, their 
fatality rate will exceed China's).

The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only 10,755 cases, 
and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive under-count driven by the lack 
of testing.

Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases and 1 death. 
Does anyone think this is real?

India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and 4 deaths. 
Seriously?

I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it goes.

For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to  exceed 16,000 per day.



 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[chuck]

I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering up.  
Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No sanitation 
facilities.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate that 
deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

  the death count is the death count



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to
  indicate that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,

bp



On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard
  wrote:


the death count is the death count
  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Jaime Solorza]

No matter if they try to hide the numbers, once the bodies start piling up,
reality will rear it's ugly head.
There is empirical data from a web-based thermometer company that is
tracking fevers not related to flu...they have been telling CDC about it...
Hey Inept Administration , fucking do something!

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 12:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous
> anomalies WRT cases vs population vs deaths.
>
> At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has the highest
> per capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths). In a few days,
> their fatality rate will exceed China's).
>
> The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only 10,755
> cases, and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive under-count driven
> by the lack of testing.
>
> Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases and 1
> death. Does anyone think this is real?
>
> India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and 4
> deaths. Seriously?
>
> I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it goes.
>
> For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to  exceed 16,000 per
> day.
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Jason McKemie]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous
> anomalies WRT cases vs population vs deaths.
>
> At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has the highest
> per capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths). In a few days,
> their fatality rate will exceed China's).
>
> The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only 10,755
> cases, and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive under-count driven
> by the lack of testing.
>
> Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases and 1
> death. Does anyone think this is real?
>
> India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and 4
> deaths. Seriously?
>
> I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it goes.
>
> For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to  exceed 16,000 per
> day.
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT..Just because

[Jaime Solorza]

Fridge...too early

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 12:11 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Where is the Tecate?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:06 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT..Just because
>
>
>
> Buen dia raza
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steven Kenney]

If Chinas numbers are even 50% accurate my name is Orville Reddenbocker. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "James Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:09:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies 



Italy passed China today. The current death count in Italy is now 3405 vs 3245 
in China. Italy also has 33,190 active cases vs 7263 currently active in China. 



The US is probably under count as far as active and resolved cases but the 
death count is the death count. If there were more deaths that could be 
attributed to this in the US they would do that since it might actually get 
people to be more compliant with the restrictions in place. 




From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:03 PM 
To: AFMUG  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies 




As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous anomalies WRT 
cases vs population vs deaths. 

At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has the highest per 
capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths). In a few days, their 
fatality rate will exceed China's). 

The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only 10,755 cases, 
and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive under-count driven by the lack 
of testing. 

Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases and 1 death. 
Does anyone think this is real? 

India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and 4 deaths. 
Seriously? 

I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it goes. 

For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to exceed 16,000 per day. 




-- 
bp 
 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT..Just because

[James Howard]

Where is the Tecate?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:06 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT..Just because

Buen dia raza

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[James Howard]

Italy passed China today.  The current death count in Italy is now 3405 vs 3245 
in China.  Italy also has 33,190 active cases vs 7263 currently active in China.

The US is probably under count as far as active and resolved cases but the 
death count is the death count.  If there were more deaths that could be 
attributed to this in the US they would do that since it might actually get 
people to be more compliant with the restrictions in place.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 1:03 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies


As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous anomalies WRT 
cases vs population vs deaths.

At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has the highest per 
capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths). In a few days, their 
fatality rate will exceed China's).

The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only 10,755 cases, 
and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive under-count driven by the lack 
of testing.

Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases and 1 death. 
Does anyone think this is real?

India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and 4 deaths. 
Seriously?

I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it goes.

For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to  exceed 16,000 per day.
[cid:image001.png@01D5FDEF.7A1204F0]



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[AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
As this whole COVID-19 thing evolves, there are emerging numerous
  anomalies WRT cases vs population vs deaths.
At this point, it looks like Italy (population 60 million) has
  the highest per capita cases and deaths (35,713 cases, 2,978
  deaths). In a few days, their fatality rate will exceed China's).
The US is an outlier with a population of 360 million, yet only
  10,755 cases, and only 154 deaths. This is probably a massive
  under-count driven by the lack of testing.
Russia with a population of 140 million has had only 199 cases
  and 1 death. Does anyone think this is real?
India with a population of 1.3 billion has had only 184 cases and
  4 deaths. Seriously?
I could go on and on. This is going to get more interesting as it
  goes.
For the last week or so, new cases have been staring to  exceed
  16,000 per day.



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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

[Adam Moffett]

Come on Bill, a mechanical engineer designed this jet turbine. He must 
have been a real idiot.  Can't even put his plumbing in straight lines.



Image result for jet turbine

On 3/19/2020 1:49 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


I'm a mechanical engineer, and I'm offended by that statement.


bp


On 3/19/2020 10:45 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Ken's an Engineer.  He would know.  And not some dumbass mechanical 
engineer either, he's an /electrical/ engineer.



On 3/19/2020 12:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
See, I told her. She keeps blaming me for this. I'm gonna forward 
Ken's answer to her so she believes me.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 8:07 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Storks. The stork brings them.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:10 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

I’d love to hear your explanation Ken.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:24 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

Does someone need to explain to you what causes that?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

Congrats! A few more and you’ll catch up to me.   We’re
currently at 9 of those things…..

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

This things been replicating inside my wife. It went airborne
this morning. It will live on surfaces for approximately 80 to
100 years. It's a filthy, disgusting beautiful thing.

ClarenceAndrew20 is what it's been identified as.



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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I'm a mechanical engineer, and I'm offended by that statement.


bp



On 3/19/2020 10:45 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  Ken's an Engineer.  He would know.  And not some dumbass
mechanical engineer either, he's an electrical engineer.
  
  
  On 3/19/2020 12:48 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
  
  

See, I told her. She keeps blaming me for this.
  I'm gonna forward Ken's answer to her so she believes me.


  On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 8:07
AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
  
  

  
Storks. 
The stork brings them.
 

  
From: AF

On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:10 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just
not corona
  

 
I’d
love to hear your explanation Ken.
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:24 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just
not corona
  

 
Does
someone need to explain to you what causes that?
 

  
From: AF

On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just
not corona
  

 
Congrats!  
A few more and you’ll catch up to me.   We’re
currently at 9 of those things…..
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not
corona
  

 

  This things been replicating
inside my wife. It went airborne this morning. It
will live on surfaces for approximately 80 to 100
years. It's a filthy, disgusting beautiful thing.
  
ClarenceAndrew20 is what it's
  been identified as.
  


  

  

  

  

  
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

[Adam Moffett]

Ken's an Engineer.  He would know.  And not some dumbass mechanical 
engineer either, he's an /electrical/ engineer.



On 3/19/2020 12:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
See, I told her. She keeps blaming me for this. I'm gonna forward 
Ken's answer to her so she believes me.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 8:07 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Storks. The stork brings them.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:10 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

I’d love to hear your explanation Ken.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:24 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

Does someone need to explain to you what causes that?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

Congrats! A few more and you’ll catch up to me.   We’re currently
at 9 of those things…..

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

This things been replicating inside my wife. It went airborne this
morning. It will live on surfaces for approximately 80 to 100
years. It's a filthy, disgusting beautiful thing.

ClarenceAndrew20 is what it's been identified as.



*Total Control Panel*



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Re: [AFMUG] my new source of coronavirus advice

[Caleb Knauer]

His tiny donkey is making a lot more sense now than the other braying
jackass currently on TV.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

[Steve Jones]

See, I told her. She keeps blaming me for this. I'm gonna forward Ken's
answer to her so she believes me.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 8:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Storks.  The stork brings them.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:10 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona
>
>
>
> I’d love to hear your explanation Ken.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:24 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona
>
>
>
> Does someone need to explain to you what causes that?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona
>
>
>
> Congrats!   A few more and you’ll catch up to me.   We’re currently at 9
> of those things…..
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona
>
>
>
> This things been replicating inside my wife. It went airborne this
> morning. It will live on surfaces for approximately 80 to 100 years. It's a
> filthy, disgusting beautiful thing.
>
> ClarenceAndrew20 is what it's been identified as.
> --
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[AFMUG] my new source of coronavirus advice

[Ken Hohhof]

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

[Ken Hohhof]

Some of the tickets we are getting I think are just longstanding WiFi issues.  
People are stupid and lazy and the latest situation is just shining a light on 
their home network deficiencies, possibly due to higher usage or more people 
and devices in the house.

All the time I see people with every single device in the house connected via 
WiFi, even a TV 2 feet from the router.  And the satellite TV guy of course 
doesn't run an Ethernet cable to the MOCA device, he connects to their WiFi.  
Then the people buy a "range extender" and set it right next to our managed 
router.  When that makes things worse, they buy a couple more range extenders.  
Then they buy a bunch of battery operated WiFi cameras and stick them all over 
the outside of their house with -90 WiFi signals.  And even with a dual band 
router, they put all the devices on one band, rather than at least dedicating 
2.4 GHz to the cameras with the crappy signal.

If there's a way to make their home network suck, they'll find it.  Then they 
complain their Internet is slow.  Except in times of stress like now, it's 
"VERY slow".


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

We haven’t seen an ANUS. (Average network usage statistics) this bad in 10 
years. To quote an old friends episode

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 09:18, Christopher Tyler  wrote:
> 
> We're seeing traffic at about 9-10am go up considerably and then stay there 
> until the evening rush starts, but the overall nightly peak is about the same 
> as before.
> 
> --
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> 
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> Nixa, MO 65714
> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> www.totalhighspeed.com
> 
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:58:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> 
> > Looks like winter break to me.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:01 PM Ken Hohhof < [ 
> > mailto:af...@kwisp.com | af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Businesses with no people at the office but “the server” and “the shared 
> > drive”
> > are still there may find they are not set up for their entire 
> > workforce to work from home. The office could become the bottleneck.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I often get frustrated with everything going “to the cloud”, but 
> > this might be a situation where that is a good thing.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | 
> > af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:43 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | 
> > af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yeah, it makes sense that would mainly be an increase in daytime 
> > usage, and that's mostly what we're seeing as well.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I do expect the upload thing to be a problem though...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof < [ 
> > mailto:af...@kwisp.com | af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kind of the same here, peaks not that much higher, but heavy usage all day.
> > Companies are still sending more people to work from home, and I'm 
> > starting to get calls from people trying to save big files to the 
> > shared drive at the office (over a VPN which adds overhead) and 
> > saying something must be wrong because it's taking 5 minutes to save a file.
> > 
> > I don't think upstream bandwidth is an issue for the kids watching 
> > Disney+ or even the ones actually doing schoolwork. But a lot of 
> > people working from home seem to have a workflow that involves 
> > download a huge file, edit it, upload the changed file, and given 
> > that the Internet is pretty much built to deliver Netflix, they are running 
> > out of upload bandwidth.
> > 
> > I'm not sure that is something we can dramatically change. I mean, 
> > we've got upstream bandwidth sitting unused on our licensed 
> > backhauls and our upstream provider connections, but not on the last 
> > mile connections. And it's not just WISPs. The Internet is built for 
> > downloading.
> > 
> > I would probably work on another task while the previous one was 
> > uploading, but that apparently doesn't work for most people. I could 
> > also wish for IT departments to use more of an edit-it-in-the-cloud 
> > approach like Google Sheets, but a lot of these people literally got 
> > told to pack up their work computers in their cars and take them 
> > home. And everything was set up for an office LAN environment.
> > 
> > 
> > 

[AFMUG] OT having fun

[chuck]

Liquidated the index fund (at least I have a pending order to sell at market).  
Moving it all to TSLA issuming TSLA is still low once the cash settles.  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

[Kurt Fankhauser]

lol

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:25 AM Craig House 
wrote:

> We haven’t seen an ANUS. (Average network usage statistics) this bad in 10
> years. To quote an old friends episode
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 19, 2020, at 09:18, Christopher Tyler 
> wrote:
> >
> > We're seeing traffic at about 9-10am go up considerably and then stay
> there until the evening rush starts, but the overall nightly peak is about
> the same as before.
> >
> > --
> > Christopher Tyler
> > Senior Network Engineer
> > MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> >
> > Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> > 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> > Nixa, MO 65714
> > (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> > www.totalhighspeed.com
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:58:40 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> >
> > > Looks like winter break to me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:01 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com
> |
> > > af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Businesses with no people at the office but “the server” and “the
> shared drive”
> > > are still there may find they are not set up for their entire
> workforce to work
> > > from home. The office could become the bottleneck.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I often get frustrated with everything going “to the cloud”, but this
> might be a
> > > situation where that is a good thing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> ] > On
> > > Behalf Of Mathew Howard
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:43 PM
> > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> > > af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, it makes sense that would mainly be an increase in daytime
> usage, and
> > > that's mostly what we're seeing as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do expect the upload thing to be a problem though...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com
> |
> > > af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind of the same here, peaks not that much higher, but heavy usage all
> day.
> > > Companies are still sending more people to work from home, and I'm
> starting to
> > > get calls from people trying to save big files to the shared drive at
> the
> > > office (over a VPN which adds overhead) and saying something must be
> wrong
> > > because it's taking 5 minutes to save a file.
> > >
> > > I don't think upstream bandwidth is an issue for the kids watching
> Disney+ or
> > > even the ones actually doing schoolwork. But a lot of people working
> from home
> > > seem to have a workflow that involves download a huge file, edit it,
> upload the
> > > changed file, and given that the Internet is pretty much built to
> deliver
> > > Netflix, they are running out of upload bandwidth.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure that is something we can dramatically change. I mean,
> we've got
> > > upstream bandwidth sitting unused on our licensed backhauls and our
> upstream
> > > provider connections, but not on the last mile connections. And it's
> not just
> > > WISPs. The Internet is built for downloading.
> > >
> > > I would probably work on another task while the previous one was
> uploading, but
> > > that apparently doesn't work for most people. I could also wish for IT
> > > departments to use more of an edit-it-in-the-cloud approach like
> Google Sheets,
> > > but a lot of these people literally got told to pack up their work
> computers in
> > > their cars and take them home. And everything was set up for an office
> LAN
> > > environment.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> ] > On
> > > Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:58 AM
> > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> > > af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > > Subject: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> > >
> > > From where I'm sitting it looks like peak time usage has only gone up
> maybe 10%
> > > if at all, but the ramp up towards peak starts at noon instead of at
> 6pm. I'm
> > > comparing late February to mid March.
> > >
> > > A lot of people were concerned about bandwidth, but I'm honestly not
> seeing a
> > > difference in a way that actually matters. I'm sure consumption in
> terms of GB
> > > will be higher, but I don't think we actually have to care.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF mailing list
> > > [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> > > [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks Animal Farm Session

[Josh Luthman]

Thanks!  Had to take calls during some of this so I missed bits and pieces.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 4:37 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Thank you
> On 3/18/2020 4:29 PM, Matt Mangriotis via AF wrote:
>
> In case you missed it this morning, we’ve posted the recording of the
> webinar, the slides we presented, and the Q in our forums.
>
>
>
> Feel free to visit, watch, download and ask additional questions…
>
>
>
>
> https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/WISP/Cambium-Networks-Animal-Farm-Session/m-p/115985#M275
>
>
>
> And for those that *were* able to attend *our virtual Animal Farm*… thank
> you!!
>
>
>
> *Matt Mangriotis*
>
> Director of Product Management
> * Cambium Networks*
> 3800 Golf Road, Suite 360
>
> Rolling Meadows, IL 60008
>
>
>
> www.cambiumnetworks.com
> *O: *847-439-6379
>
> *M: *630-308-9394
> * E: *m...@cambiumnetworks.com
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

[Craig House]

We haven’t seen an ANUS. (Average network usage statistics) this bad in 10 
years. To quote an old friends episode

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 09:18, Christopher Tyler  wrote:
> 
> We're seeing traffic at about 9-10am go up considerably and then stay there 
> until the evening rush starts, but the overall nightly peak is about the same 
> as before.
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> 
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> Nixa, MO 65714
> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> www.totalhighspeed.com
> 
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:58:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> 
> > Looks like winter break to me.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:01 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com |
> > af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Businesses with no people at the office but “the server” and “the shared 
> > drive”
> > are still there may find they are not set up for their entire workforce to 
> > work
> > from home. The office could become the bottleneck.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I often get frustrated with everything going “to the cloud”, but this might 
> > be a
> > situation where that is a good thing.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On
> > Behalf Of Mathew Howard
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:43 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> > af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yeah, it makes sense that would mainly be an increase in daytime usage, and
> > that's mostly what we're seeing as well.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I do expect the upload thing to be a problem though...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com |
> > af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kind of the same here, peaks not that much higher, but heavy usage all day.
> > Companies are still sending more people to work from home, and I'm starting 
> > to
> > get calls from people trying to save big files to the shared drive at the
> > office (over a VPN which adds overhead) and saying something must be wrong
> > because it's taking 5 minutes to save a file.
> > 
> > I don't think upstream bandwidth is an issue for the kids watching Disney+ 
> > or
> > even the ones actually doing schoolwork. But a lot of people working from 
> > home
> > seem to have a workflow that involves download a huge file, edit it, upload 
> > the
> > changed file, and given that the Internet is pretty much built to deliver
> > Netflix, they are running out of upload bandwidth.
> > 
> > I'm not sure that is something we can dramatically change. I mean, we've got
> > upstream bandwidth sitting unused on our licensed backhauls and our upstream
> > provider connections, but not on the last mile connections. And it's not 
> > just
> > WISPs. The Internet is built for downloading.
> > 
> > I would probably work on another task while the previous one was uploading, 
> > but
> > that apparently doesn't work for most people. I could also wish for IT
> > departments to use more of an edit-it-in-the-cloud approach like Google 
> > Sheets,
> > but a lot of these people literally got told to pack up their work 
> > computers in
> > their cars and take them home. And everything was set up for an office LAN
> > environment.
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On
> > Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:58 AM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> > af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> > 
> > From where I'm sitting it looks like peak time usage has only gone up maybe 
> > 10%
> > if at all, but the ramp up towards peak starts at noon instead of at 6pm. 
> > I'm
> > comparing late February to mid March.
> > 
> > A lot of people were concerned about bandwidth, but I'm honestly not seeing 
> > a
> > difference in a way that actually matters. I'm sure consumption in terms of 
> > GB
> > will be higher, but I don't think we actually have to care.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> > [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> > [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> > [ 

Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

[Christopher Tyler]

We're seeing traffic at about 9-10am go up considerably and then stay there 
until the evening rush starts, but the overall nightly peak is about the same 
as before.

-- 
Christopher Tyler
Senior Network Engineer
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE

Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
1091 W. Kathryn Street
Nixa, MO 65714
(417) 851-1107 x. 9002
www.totalhighspeed.com

- Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:58:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

> Looks like winter break to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:01 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com |
> af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Businesses with no people at the office but “the server” and “the shared 
> drive”
> are still there may find they are not set up for their entire workforce to 
> work
> from home. The office could become the bottleneck.
> 
> 
> 
> I often get frustrated with everything going “to the cloud”, but this might 
> be a
> situation where that is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On
> Behalf Of Mathew Howard
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:43 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> af@af.afmug.com ] >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it makes sense that would mainly be an increase in daytime usage, and
> that's mostly what we're seeing as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do expect the upload thing to be a problem though...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com |
> af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of the same here, peaks not that much higher, but heavy usage all day.
> Companies are still sending more people to work from home, and I'm starting to
> get calls from people trying to save big files to the shared drive at the
> office (over a VPN which adds overhead) and saying something must be wrong
> because it's taking 5 minutes to save a file.
> 
> I don't think upstream bandwidth is an issue for the kids watching Disney+ or
> even the ones actually doing schoolwork. But a lot of people working from home
> seem to have a workflow that involves download a huge file, edit it, upload 
> the
> changed file, and given that the Internet is pretty much built to deliver
> Netflix, they are running out of upload bandwidth.
> 
> I'm not sure that is something we can dramatically change. I mean, we've got
> upstream bandwidth sitting unused on our licensed backhauls and our upstream
> provider connections, but not on the last mile connections. And it's not just
> WISPs. The Internet is built for downloading.
> 
> I would probably work on another task while the previous one was uploading, 
> but
> that apparently doesn't work for most people. I could also wish for IT
> departments to use more of an edit-it-in-the-cloud approach like Google 
> Sheets,
> but a lot of these people literally got told to pack up their work computers 
> in
> their cars and take them home. And everything was set up for an office LAN
> environment.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On
> Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:58 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> af@af.afmug.com ] >
> Subject: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
> 
> From where I'm sitting it looks like peak time usage has only gone up maybe 
> 10%
> if at all, but the ramp up towards peak starts at noon instead of at 6pm. I'm
> comparing late February to mid March.
> 
> A lot of people were concerned about bandwidth, but I'm honestly not seeing a
> difference in a way that actually matters. I'm sure consumption in terms of GB
> will be higher, but I don't think we actually have to care.
> 
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> 
> 
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> --
> AF mailing list
> [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth

[Josh Luthman]

Looks like winter break to me.

[image: image.png]

[image: image.png]

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:01 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Businesses with no people at the office but “the server” and “the shared
> drive” are still there may find they are not set up for their entire
> workforce to work from home.  The office could become the bottleneck.
>
>
>
> I often get frustrated with everything going “to the cloud”, but this
> might be a situation where that is a good thing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:43 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
>
>
>
> Yeah, it makes sense that would mainly be an increase in daytime usage,
> and that's mostly what we're seeing as well.
>
>
>
> I do expect the upload thing to be a problem though...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Kind of the same here, peaks not that much higher, but heavy usage all
> day.  Companies are still sending more people to work from home, and I'm
> starting to get calls from people trying to save big files to the shared
> drive at the office (over a VPN which adds overhead) and saying something
> must be wrong because it's taking 5 minutes to save a file.
>
> I don't think upstream bandwidth is an issue for the kids watching Disney+
> or even the ones actually doing schoolwork.  But a lot of people working
> from home seem to have a workflow that involves download a huge file, edit
> it, upload the changed file, and given that the Internet is pretty much
> built to deliver Netflix, they are running out of upload bandwidth.
>
> I'm not sure that is something we can dramatically change.  I mean, we've
> got upstream bandwidth sitting unused on our licensed backhauls and our
> upstream provider connections, but not on the last mile connections.  And
> it's not just WISPs.  The Internet is built for downloading.
>
> I would probably work on another task while the previous one was
> uploading, but that apparently doesn't work for most people.  I could also
> wish for IT departments to use more of an edit-it-in-the-cloud approach
> like Google Sheets, but a lot of these people literally got told to pack up
> their work computers in their cars and take them home.  And everything was
> set up for an office LAN environment.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:58 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Covid19 bandwidth
>
>  From where I'm sitting it looks like peak time usage has only gone up
> maybe 10% if at all, but the ramp up towards peak starts at noon instead of
> at 6pm.  I'm comparing late February to mid March.
>
> A lot of people were concerned about bandwidth, but I'm honestly not
> seeing a difference in a way that actually matters.  I'm sure consumption
> in terms of GB will be higher, but I don't think we actually have to care.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions

[dave]

Gotta love those guys popping up trying to out sell the 10yr veteran LOL!
Been there done it twice in 15 yrs


On 11/21/19 10:31 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


We mostly avoid DFS frequencies on APs because of the impact if we get 
false radar detects.  Also we are mostly a Cambium shop.  So I’m a bit 
confused about DFS on other vendor equipment like Ubiquiti as well as 
home routers.


Question 1 – what happens when there’s a DFS detection?  On the 
Cambium gear, we have to select 1 or 2 alternate frequencies.  But on 
other gear, I don’t see this. When there’s a DFS hit, does it jump to 
another random frequency?  Does it rescan the current frequency until 
it tests clear and only then resume transmission?  Is the answer right 
in front of me and I’m being stupid?  Maybe in the case of routers 
they are exempt because of low EIRP?


Question 2 – what about 40/80/160 MHz channels?  We have a competitor 
using Ubiquiti gear and advertising residential subscriber speed plans 
up to 100x100. Clearly they must be using at least 40 MHz channels if 
not 80 MHz, or else their marketing people have burning pants and long 
noses.  And I don’t see how a WISP, especially one surrounded by other 
WISPs, could use wide channels other than in DFS bands.  We have some 
PTP links using 40 MHz but only 10 and 20 MHz channels on our APs.  So 
assuming you are using 40 or 80 MHz in DFS, what happens when there’s 
a DFS detect? Does the whole 40 or 80 MHz have to find a new home?  
Can it slide over 2.5 or 5 MHz and substantially overlap the previous 
occupied spectrum?  DFS bands come with enough spectrum to use wide 
channels, but is there enough to jump around when you take a DFS hit?





-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

[Ken Hohhof]

Storks.  The stork brings them.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:10 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

 

I'd love to hear your explanation Ken.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:24 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

 

Does someone need to explain to you what causes that?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

 

Congrats!   A few more and you'll catch up to me.   We're currently at 9 of
those things...

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Ot: a virus, just not corona

 

This things been replicating inside my wife. It went airborne this morning.
It will live on surfaces for approximately 80 to 100 years. It's a filthy,
disgusting beautiful thing.

ClarenceAndrew20 is what it's been identified as.

  _  



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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow
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  _  



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Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions

[Mike Hammett]

Thanks. 

Due to it being a fairly manual process to enter the commercial weather 
stations into the map due to ULS complexities, the commercial weather stations 
are very incomplete. I've only added them as I've needed to. 


I'd assume that ULS is correct, but maybe not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 1:16:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 



That’s pretty cool. The links to ULS are nice. 

I had always wondered whose radar that was by Routes 47 and 64 your map tells 
me it’s WLS-TV. So if ULS says the frequency is 2900-2950, that means the 
actual radar beam is in that range? Not in 5 GHz at all? 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 1:05 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 


This is nowhere near complete, but here is a map I've been building of radar 
sites. 



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ayAnN9KSq09zKS8WCqaQ_QA3JrY=sharing 



It has TDWR, NOAA, TV stations etc. The private radar stations (mostly TV 
stations) are the incomplete part of the map because I have to look them up in 
ULS. It is complete in our area. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 12:36:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 
Chicago has 2 TDWRs (for OHare and Midway) and both are in the 5600-5650 MHz 
band. I think a lot of WISP equipment actually locks out those frequencies, and 
the only place a WISP would be desperate enough to use that 50 MHz apparently 
is Puerto Rico, which is apparently the Wild West of spectrum. 

http://www.wispa.org/Resources/Industry-Resources/TDWR-Resources/TDWR-Locations-and-Frequencies
 





From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 12:16 PM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 




Those radars sweep the sky pretty slowly. Like 60 rpm. It would be 
theoretically possible to be on their frequency and just blank TX when it is 
looking your way. You could extract timing sync from the radar sweep and figure 
out when to blank. Their gain is such that you would only have to blank for 
perhaps 50 mS. 



If I had more ambition I would ask for an experimental license to play with the 
idea. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 11:11 AM 

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 



Only the APs, at least under FCC rules, I’m not sure about the rest of the 
world. 

That alone IMHO says DFS is a joke, or regulatory “experts” deluding 
themselves. If I have a sector pointed away from some government radar, it 
won’t detect the radar, but the SMs are pointed back at the radar and are not 
required to have a detection mechanism. Probably a good point that it would be 
too complicated for one SM to detect radar and then communicate with the AP to 
request a channel change. But you really need something like a SAS for this 
spectrum sharing idea to work. 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 12:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 


one thing i have always wondered is do the SM's actually look for RADAR or only 
the AP's? 



On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:55 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




Yes, that’s true, but a higher gain antenna at the SM end helps rcv but not 
xmt. And SM à AP is the direction you may actually need a better signal because 
the AP likely has a sector antenna and is mounted higher so it sees more 
interference. 

It would not be unusual to have a 16 dBi antenna at the AP but a 25 dBi antenna 
at the SM. The antenna gain would help the rcv signal at the SM, but it would 
probably have to lower its conducted power by 9 dB to stay within the 
regulatory EIRP limit. 

In contrast, in U-NII-3 the CPE end is treated as point-to-point and can use 
antenna gain to exceed the AP limit of 36 dBm EIRP (subject to OOBE limits). 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 11:27 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 

There might be something I don't understand, but I thought you had flat EIRP 
limit of +30dbm whether it's an SM or an AP. 

On 11/21/2019 12:11 PM, castarritt . wrote: 




6 dBm loss for the AP transmit isn't the end of the world. It's the up to 23 
dBm loss on the SM transmit power that destroys the usefulness of DFS for PTMP 
past a couple miles. The ~16 dBi 

Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions

[Mike Hammett]

Yes, Military radar is the primary reason for DFS complexities. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert Andrews"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 2:30:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] dumb DFS questions 

I thought Military aircraft radars could also use DFS frequencies? 

On 11/21/2019 09:50 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: 
> We are using DFS on PMP450 for customer access and AF5XHD for backhauls. 
> It works surprisingly well. On both the PMP450 and AF5XHD's you can set 
> an alternative freq and a secondary alternative for the radios to 
> immediately jump to if they detect RADAR. Radios will try the first alt 
> freq and if they get a hit on that will then go to the second freq. It 
> should happen instantly without taking the link down. If you do not set 
> the alt freqs the radios will shutdown for 30 minutes and then 
> attempt to use that freq again. I have noticed that the wider the 
> channels you use the more "susceptible" you are yo getting a radar 
> event. Try running on 20mhz channels and you wont get as many hits if 
> any. We have some AP's that have been running for 6 months+ without any 
> radar hits. We are also not anywhere near any airports so that may be 
> helping us as well. 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:42 PM Matt Hoppes 
>  > wrote: 
> 
> You do. 
> 
> On 11/21/19 12:27 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> > There might be something I don't understand, but I thought you 
> had flat 
> > EIRP limit of +30dbm whether it's an SM or an AP. 
> > 
> > On 11/21/2019 12:11 PM, castarritt . wrote: 
> >> 6 dBm loss for the AP transmit isn't the end of the world. It's 
> the up 
> >> to 23 dBm loss on the SM transmit power that destroys the 
> >> usefulness of DFS for PTMP past a couple miles. The ~16 dBi gain 
> 90° 
> >> sectors 2-300' up in the air just can't hear those SMs over all the 
> >> noise they are picking up. What we need is the ability to run 
> >> downlink on DFS and uplink on 5.2 or 5.8. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:56 AM Adam Moffett 
> mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
> >> >> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Yeah I think on most equipment you can set alternate 
> channels that 
> >> are just shifted over 5mhz from where you were. And yeah I 
> think 
> >> the channel needs to be clear for a few minutes before you 
> can go 
> >> back to it. 
> >> 
> >> Assuming you don't really have a TDWR near you, I don't 
> think DFS 
> >> events are that big of a deal. My understanding is that DFS 
> >> events are more likely if you lie to the software about antenna 
> >> gain to cheat the EIRP limit. False detects happen, but I don't 
> >> think it's a daily event. Disclaimer: I've mostly used it on 
> >> Point to point with dishes. I'm not sure if you'd pick up more 
> >> anomolies on a sector antenna. 
> >> 
> >> The biggest bummer is the EIRP limit. When you're trying to get 
> >> that 32 SNR for the 256QAM then losing 6db kind of hurts. 
> Or when 
> >> you've already got someone hooked up 10 miles away and lowering 
> >> the power ruins them. 
> >> 
> >> Where you really want to use DFS (In my opinion) is at a site 
> >> where you have a bunch of customers within 1-2 miles. 
> >> Unfortunately I don't have sites like that. 
> >> 
> >> -Adam 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 11/21/2019 11:31 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> We mostly avoid DFS frequencies on APs because of the impact if 
> >>> we get false radar detects. Also we are mostly a Cambium 
> shop. 
> >>> So I’m a bit confused about DFS on other vendor equipment like 
> >>> Ubiquiti as well as home routers. 
> >>> 
> >>> Question 1 – what happens when there’s a DFS detection? On the 
> >>> Cambium gear, we have to select 1 or 2 alternate frequencies. 
> >>> But on other gear, I don’t see this. When there’s a DFS hit, 
> >>> does it jump to another random frequency? Does it rescan the 
> >>> current frequency until it tests clear and only then resume 
> >>> transmission? Is the answer right in front of me and I’m being 
> >>> stupid? Maybe in the case of routers they are exempt 
> because of 
> >>> low EIRP? 
> >>> 
> >>> Question 2 – what about 40/80/160 MHz channels? We have a 
> >>> competitor using Ubiquiti gear and advertising residential 
> >>> subscriber speed plans up to 100x100. Clearly they must be 
> using 
> >>> at least 40 MHz channels if not 80 MHz, or else their marketing 
> >>> people have burning pants and long noses. And I don’t see how a 
> >>> WISP, especially one surrounded by other WISPs, could use wide 
> >>> channels other than in DFS bands. We have some PTP links using 
> >>> 40 MHz but only 10 and 20 MHz channels on our APs. So assuming 
> >>> you are using 40 or 80 MHz in DFS, what happens when there’s a 
> >>> DFS detect? Does the whole 40 or 80 MHz have to find a new 
> >>> home?