Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Daniel Gerlach]

if somebody need, we have 500x lite to 2mb for free..and 6 x PTP 100 7 to FULL..

2016-02-26 0:16 GMT+01:00 Ryan Ray :
> Big thank you to Cambium who emailed me directly and got me a key. Super
> helpful. Days like this remind me of why I've always bought Cambium and will
> continue to do so.
>
> Also the people who offered to help on the list. This is a great place,
> proud to be here for the last 8 years or so.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>>
>> What frequency? I have a million 5.2 SM's that I could send you one for
>> the price of shipping.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>>
>>> We have done a floating and permanent in the past. This is our last
>>> pmp100 on the network and they are desperate but all I have are lite sm's
>>>
>>> Sent while mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Feb 25, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Did such a key ever exist?  I thought they were floating keys
>>> > distributed through Prism.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On 2/25/2016 2:15 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
>>> >> Hey everyone,
>>> >>
>>> >> I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a
>>> >> lite to 7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on 
>>> >> hand.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >> Ryan
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent while mobile
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Lambie
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Brian Webster]

I have extensive experience in public safety systems. Used to design, sell and 
build them when I worked for a Motorola MSS, I was also a 911 dispatcher. In 
addition I worked for years (and continue to) in the public safety systems as 
the county RACES officer and am part of the county EOC staff. I also sat on our 
county telecommunications committee as a volunteer, having helped work through 
the fire and public safety radio system upgrades and evaluated the consulting 
company that worked on the system I feel a decent amount of qualification to 
speak. Over 25 years in these arenas have given me a lot of real world 
experiences from all sides of the issue (not to mention 20 plus years military 
experience from the reserves). I still consult with the chairman of our county 
board on these issues.

 

One of the things that I find from the public safety personnel is that much of 
their knowledge comes from learning from their vendors. Not many are true 
communications enthusiasts and eat live and breathe the stuff like most of us 
do. If the vendor/shop they rely on and trust, is not pro-amateur radio the 
public safety person typically is not. If the vendor/shop is, the public safety 
agency tends to embrace things through amateur radio more. The success or 
failure of amateur radio implementation in any community, is in most cases 
personality and trust related when it comes to the emergency management staff 
knowing who those amateur radio operators are, and if they like/trust those 
people to do a good job, and that they will stay within their role and purpose 
and if they keep from doing anything that would embarrass any government 
officials.

 

With regards to trying something for free, I have heard the elected officials 
balk at that believe it or not. They would rather have a company they can sue 
and/or point fingers at when something goes wrong. Case in point locally, when 
my county wanted to evaluate their systems and have recommendations made for 
system improvements and upgrades, they scoffed at my offering to do it free (I 
am a taxpayer, parent and at the time a firefighter). The county attorney said 
we can’t do that because they wanted someone to be able to shoulder liability.  
In a litigious society things like this happen. Those old sayings like nobody 
ever got fired for hiring IBM or nobody ever got fired for buying CISCO still 
ring true.

 

Lewis, you bring up a good point about people who get paid to do things. My 
take on that is that too many WISP’s have never put a true dollar value on 
their time in relation to a per hour value. When a startup is broke and cash is 
scarce but time is plentiful, they do things for themselves thinking it’s a 
good thing because they didn’t have to spend money doing the task at hand. That 
works in the beginning but over time there are too many things one person must 
do in a day to get them all done. Too often I find that WISP’s don’t do a true 
evaluation of what might be cheaper to hire out and what they can do themselves 
to save the company money or have the necessary skill sets to do so. Coming 
from a high concentration of Alpha Males types, this industry many times will 
not do that honest evaluation. If for instance a WISP operator finds that their 
time is really worth $60 per hour to the company (not unreasonable and in many 
cases still too undervalued), they may find it cheaper to hire that electrician 
at less than $60 per hour get that task done AND they still have time to get 
the other important business tasks done to keep the company moving forward. 
This also follows through to where a WISP will do the things they like to do 
and ignore things that need to be done to grow their company. Marketing is a 
great example of this, WISP’s will blow that off and chase service tickets 
justifying to themselves that the ticket is an emergency and they need to keep 
their customer happy. Truth is they can hire that work out cheaper and then 
their can focus their efforts on marketing and increasing their customer counts 
and revenue much faster. It’s so easy to stay in the trap of I can do it myself 
and not spend any money, but rarely does anyone really look at the true amount 
of time they spent on learning to do that task and what it would have cost to 
just hire it out and spend on those hours on some other revenue producing thing 
for the company.

 

A great exaggerated example would be, you don’t need to hire a lawyer to answer 
to charges in a court, you have the right to self-represent and you can study 
case law and the laws on your own and not spend the money to hire the lawyer. 
Given enough time anyone could do that, but do you have the time before you 
might have to sit in front of a judge and jury to do a good enough job to 
defend yourself?

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Mike Hammett]

Lewis must have a different kind of people in his area. 

I still don't understand how you can be so bitter over this. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:49:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 

It doesn't sound like you have spent much time with public safety types. I have 
never met one that wouldn't rather try something free, even if it is obvious it 
wouldn't work. 
Jamie asked the question of PS types, not vendors. 


But, your evaluation of the issues involved in system failure doesn't seem to 
be based on any real familiarity with the systems, their users, or the process 
by which they procure them. 


I am really confused. There seems to be some disconnect between the WISP 
profession and every other one. By the logic presented to date, every WISP here 
is not nearly as good as a bunch of people who take no money for their service 
and just do this part time from whatever they cobble together from Best Buy. 
Obviously nobody should ever pay Brian to map anything since being paid to do a 
job obviously precludes him from doing it well. You damn sure should never buy 
a product from somebody like Chuck who spends great amounts of time engineering 
and testing them and is obviously qualified. Oh wait, he gets paid, damn, and I 
thought his stuff was so good till I realized he got paid for them. 


I just don't get it. Are your professions exempt or maybe you don't understand 
the problems like you think you do? 



On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:18 PM Brian Webster < i...@wirelessmapping.com > wrote: 





One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line when all 
others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur radio operators build 
and maintain their own networks. Public Safety Systems rely on commercial 
contractors to maintain and repair their systems. The agencies rarely have any 
good understanding of their systems when there is an outage and therefore they 
don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal with this by pouring a lot 
of money in to redundant and backup systems. In large scale disasters these 
commercial repair contracts get spread thin real fast and have soo many 
problems to fix all at the same time. 

Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative solutions that 
cost little to nothing because it’s an all-volunteer effort. When things break 
they don’t just throw money at the problem to fix it. 

Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as shows like 
you are at is because they provide services for almost free, that does not sell 
equipment and services for the commercial vendors. I am not saying public 
safety systems should not have backup systems in place mind you, just stating 
the obvious that may not be so obvious to most. If you were selling stuff to 
make a living would you tell a potential client how to not purchase what you 
are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing consumers how to get free 
off the air TV? 

Thank You, 
Brian Webster 
www.wirelessmapping.com 
www.Broadband-Mapping.com 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM 
To: Animal Farm 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 




Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM folks 
have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense that 
emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks just in 
case your state of the art system fails. Look at how thinking out of the box 
saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC first came 
out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny juijitsu guynow 
they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck the politics... make it 
work. Period 




On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners" < cstann...@gmail.com > wrote: 
Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham 
community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk 
getting involved without good research first. 
But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice combination of 
tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge and eagerness for 
community service so as to respond rapidly in any situation. 
I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet 
networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries and 
advancing the hobby. 




On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 






I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[David Milholen]

I love those types of wisps and hate them in the same breath LOL
if that makes any sense. Couple reasons I like them is we pick up their 
left overs but there is some resentment against the wireless tech as a 
whole because they have had a bad taste of a bad Wisp.
I make it my duty to give those customers the best experience and best 
performance wireless has to offer.  I still have the feeling that most 
consensus is that cable or fiber is the true internet connection which 
is flawless in every way
because the wireless guys have spotty service,no service, crap service 
and customer service is crap as compared to the larger guys that have 
all the money.
  I love Chucks Stuff just saying really cant find anything to compare 
it to.

I also like Forests cool toys also.
 What about the CMM,CTM ??? I want my CMM5 poking Cambium LOL

Operating a Pure Canopy to Cambium Wisp has its perks..
 We are not going back to sites to replace radios every few months. I 
am not having to do weird QOS configs on every router. I am not worried 
how consistent the latency is from one area to another.
I can wake up each morning and roll out to the office and plan our next 
move. We dont have a 30 techs running all over the place trying to 
figure out to do.
 We may have 1 or 2 service calls a day with 4 to 5 new installs 
daily.  Everything just works and works they way I expect it should not 
guessing at every turn.


In short I sleep good at night.

Im done rambling LOL


On 2/25/2016 7:49 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
It doesn't sound like you have spent much time with public safety 
types. I have never met one that wouldn't rather try something free, 
even if it is obvious it wouldn't work.

Jamie asked the question of PS types, not vendors.

But, your evaluation of the issues involved in system failure doesn't 
seem to be based on any real familiarity with the systems, their 
users, or the process by which they procure them.


I am really confused. There seems to be some disconnect between the 
WISP profession and every other one. By the logic presented to date, 
every WISP here is not nearly as good as a bunch of people who take no 
money for their service and just do this part time from whatever they 
cobble together from Best Buy. Obviously nobody should ever pay Brian 
to map anything since being paid to do a job obviously precludes him 
from doing it well. You damn sure should never buy a product from 
somebody like Chuck who spends great amounts of time engineering and 
testing them and is obviously qualified. Oh wait, he gets paid, damn, 
and I thought his stuff was so good till I realized he got paid for them.


I just don't get it. Are your professions exempt or maybe you don't 
understand the problems like you think you do?


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:18 PM Brian Webster > wrote:


One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line
when all others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur
radio operators build and maintain their own networks. Public
Safety Systems rely on commercial contractors to maintain and
repair their systems. The agencies rarely have any good
understanding of their systems when there is an outage and
therefore they don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal
with this by pouring a lot of money in to redundant and backup
systems. In large scale disasters these commercial repair
contracts get spread thin real fast and have soo many problems to
fix all at the same time.

Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative
solutions that cost little to nothing because it’s an
all-volunteer effort. When things break they don’t just throw
money at the problem to fix it.

Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as
shows like you are at is because they provide services for almost
free, that does not sell equipment and services for the commercial
vendors. I am not saying public safety systems should not have
backup systems in place mind you, just stating the obvious that
may not be so obvious to most. If you were selling stuff to make a
living would you tell a potential client how to not purchase what
you are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing consumers
how to get free off the air TV?

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com 

www.Broadband-Mapping.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM
*To:* Animal Farm


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was
that HAM folks have had systems operating when no one else did and
it makes sense that emergency agencies have knowledge and

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

It doesn't sound like you have spent much time with public safety types. I
have never met one that wouldn't rather try something free, even if it is
obvious it wouldn't work.
Jamie asked the question of PS types, not vendors.

But, your evaluation of the issues involved in system failure doesn't seem
to be based on any real familiarity with the systems, their users, or the
process by which they procure them.

I am really confused. There seems to be some disconnect between the WISP
profession and every other one. By the logic presented to date, every WISP
here is not nearly as good as a bunch of people who take no money for their
service and just do this part time from whatever they cobble together from
Best Buy. Obviously nobody should ever pay Brian to map anything since
being paid to do a job obviously precludes him from doing it well. You damn
sure should never buy a product from somebody like Chuck who spends great
amounts of time engineering and testing them and is obviously qualified. Oh
wait, he gets paid, damn, and I thought his stuff was so good till I
realized he got paid for them.

I just don't get it. Are your professions exempt or maybe you don't
understand the problems like you think you do?

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:18 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line when all
> others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur radio operators
> build and maintain their own networks. Public Safety Systems rely on
> commercial contractors to maintain and repair their systems. The agencies
> rarely have any good understanding of their systems when there is an outage
> and therefore they don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal with
> this by pouring a lot of money in to redundant and backup systems. In large
> scale disasters these commercial repair contracts get spread thin real fast
> and have soo many problems to fix all at the same time.
>
>
>
> Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative solutions
> that cost little to nothing because it’s an all-volunteer effort. When
> things break they don’t just throw money at the problem to fix it.
>
>
>
> Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as shows
> like you are at is because they provide services for almost free, that does
> not sell equipment and services for the commercial vendors. I am not saying
> public safety systems should not have backup systems in place mind you,
> just stating the obvious that may not be so obvious to most. If you were
> selling stuff to make a living would you tell a potential client how to not
> purchase what you are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing
> consumers how to get free off the air TV?
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
>
>
> Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
> folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
> that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
> just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
> of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
> first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
> juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
> the politics... make it work. Period
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham
> community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk
> getting involved without good research first.
>
> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
> situation.
>
> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
> networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
> and advancing the hobby.
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing
> with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Brian Webster]

But to Lewis’ point there can be some jerks and know-it-alls in the ranks of 
the amateur ranks for sure. It’s a group dynamic thing. Most times in the 
strong ham radio communities you will find that the commercial radio shops are 
also hams and have volunteered their time and equipment to build and maintain 
the systems, so in reality they are just as professionally trained and 
certified for a lot of their critical infrastructure such as repeaters on tower 
sites.

 

The real big thing that amateur radio can bring to the public safety arena is 
the ability to use their HF systems for large area communications without any 
need for infrastructure other than their antennas and radios. It’s not real 
sexy and not portable or handheld use but it brings a big capability to 
emergency situations that rarely have any systems in place to do that.

 

They each have their place, neither one is a magic bullet and the only way 
amateur radio offers any real community benefit is to have trained and 
experienced radio operators who understand the incident command system. After 
the emergency has started is not the time to bring a rookie in who does not 
know their place and with who and how to properly communicate to the benefit of 
all involved.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:23 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

 

Yep...

On Feb 25, 2016 6:18 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:

One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line when all 
others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur radio operators build 
and maintain their own networks. Public Safety Systems rely on commercial 
contractors to maintain and repair their systems. The agencies rarely have any 
good understanding of their systems when there is an outage and therefore they 
don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal with this by pouring a lot 
of money in to redundant and backup systems. In large scale disasters these 
commercial repair contracts get spread thin real fast and have soo many 
problems to fix all at the same time.

 

Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative solutions that 
cost little to nothing because it’s an all-volunteer effort. When things break 
they don’t just throw money at the problem to fix it.

 

Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as shows like 
you are at is because they provide services for almost free, that does not sell 
equipment and services for the commercial vendors. I am not saying public 
safety systems should not have backup systems in place mind you, just stating 
the obvious that may not be so obvious to most. If you were selling stuff to 
make a living would you tell a potential client how to not purchase what you 
are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing consumers how to get free 
off the air TV?

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

 

Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM folks 
have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense that 
emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks just in 
case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out of the box 
saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC first came 
out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny juijitsu guynow 
they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck the politics... make it 
work. Period 

On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham 
community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk 
getting involved without good research first. 

But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice combination of 
tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge and eagerness for 
community service so as to respond rapidly in any situation.

I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet 
networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries and 
advancing the hobby.

On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

Yep...
On Feb 25, 2016 6:18 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:

> One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line when all
> others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur radio operators
> build and maintain their own networks. Public Safety Systems rely on
> commercial contractors to maintain and repair their systems. The agencies
> rarely have any good understanding of their systems when there is an outage
> and therefore they don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal with
> this by pouring a lot of money in to redundant and backup systems. In large
> scale disasters these commercial repair contracts get spread thin real fast
> and have soo many problems to fix all at the same time.
>
>
>
> Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative solutions
> that cost little to nothing because it’s an all-volunteer effort. When
> things break they don’t just throw money at the problem to fix it.
>
>
>
> Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as shows
> like you are at is because they provide services for almost free, that does
> not sell equipment and services for the commercial vendors. I am not saying
> public safety systems should not have backup systems in place mind you,
> just stating the obvious that may not be so obvious to most. If you were
> selling stuff to make a living would you tell a potential client how to not
> purchase what you are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing
> consumers how to get free off the air TV?
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
>
>
> Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
> folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
> that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
> just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
> of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
> first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
> juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
> the politics... make it work. Period
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham
> community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk
> getting involved without good research first.
>
> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
> situation.
>
> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
> networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
> and advancing the hobby.
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing
> with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost
> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
> cell systems.
>
> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
> with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
> jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
> several 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

The Radwin 5000 jet won product of the show...but the reps were
assholes...the Cambium crew were cool and answered my questions well.  Met
Sakid Ahmed...picked his brain Ericsson has a new high powered system
coming out.. the SAF guys had their hand held spectrum analyzers actually
turned on and measuring 5GHz ...pretty sweet.
On Feb 25, 2016 9:05 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Probably like the farmers here that do their own electrical work rather
> than pay an electrician.  Some do really nice work.  Then there are the
> other 95%.  My installer will say “there was an outlet there for the POE,
> but it was farmerized”.  So maybe loose wires not in conduit, neutral used
> as ground, no faceplate, and the box held to a stud with rusty visegrips.
> But no inspection required, so why pay a professional?
>
> One customer needed a security camera in his barn.  Anything I quoted was
> too expensive.  So he got a webcam at a big box store and some Cat5 cable
> and ziptied it to the overhead power wires.  OK, there are reasons we can’t
> do it that way.  Being a professional means you get paid, but it also means
> you carry liability insurance, get sued if you kill someone or burn down
> their house, or at least have to go back and fix it when you didn’t do it
> right the first time.  It also means you are depending for your income on
> referrals.  You can get government contracts based on low bid, but more
> discriminating customers rely on referrals and ratings.
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:39 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> We will have to agree to disagree. I fire people that do shoddy work. I
> also routinely do site reviews after work is complete and have the work
> redone if required. Most of the people that I know in my industry do the
> same. Of course I only know the Motorola service organizations and out of
> those only the ones that have been around a long time. Anyway, looks like
> you have had some bad experiences of your own. Can't wait to hear from
> Jaime on what else he learned.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I meant enthusiast, whether an unpaid HAM or a paid EOC Director. Doesn't
>> matter.
>>
>> I think you place too much faith in people paid to do something. Most do
>> it poorly.
>>
>> I think most public safety agencies are like most WISPs. Some do it
>> great, most do it good enough, while some are a pile of shit.
>>
>> Now once you get to the low bidder half of your message, I think you're
>> largely spot on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22:15 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially
>> since they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't
>> likely to take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay
>> thousands of dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding
>> installations for instance. Not that a class teaches something you can't
>> learn from various sources, just that we have to do it and it gets done. A
>> HAM doesn't have to make the effort, while some will, many won't.
>> But you are correct in detecting a "shortness".
>> Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins
>> which in many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The
>> exercises are meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do
>> a pretty decent job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies
>> use their gear every day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina
>> doesn't happen every day. Sadly, when you tell someone their system is
>> vulnerable because the genset they have is 25 years old and won't start or
>> the batts need to be replaced or a hundred other things the response is
>> usually We don't have the budget for that" or "I don't see why I need it
>> because I can talk on my system now"
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads.
>>>
>>> I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Brian Webster]

One of the big reasons amateur radio systems tend to stay on line when all 
others fail is due to the simple fact that the amateur radio operators build 
and maintain their own networks. Public Safety Systems rely on commercial 
contractors to maintain and repair their systems. The agencies rarely have any 
good understanding of their systems when there is an outage and therefore they 
don’t have ways to overcome the problems. They deal with this by pouring a lot 
of money in to redundant and backup systems. In large scale disasters these 
commercial repair contracts get spread thin real fast and have soo many 
problems to fix all at the same time.

 

Amateur radio systems have been put together with more creative solutions that 
cost little to nothing because it’s an all-volunteer effort. When things break 
they don’t just throw money at the problem to fix it.

 

Jamie, the reason you don’t hear talk of amateur radio systems as shows like 
you are at is because they provide services for almost free, that does not sell 
equipment and services for the commercial vendors. I am not saying public 
safety systems should not have backup systems in place mind you, just stating 
the obvious that may not be so obvious to most. If you were selling stuff to 
make a living would you tell a potential client how to not purchase what you 
are offering? Do you see the cable companies showing consumers how to get free 
off the air TV?

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

 

Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM folks 
have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense that 
emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks just in 
case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out of the box 
saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC first came 
out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny juijitsu guynow 
they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck the politics... make it 
work. Period 

On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham 
community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk 
getting involved without good research first. 

But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice combination of 
tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge and eagerness for 
community service so as to respond rapidly in any situation.

I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet 
networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries and 
advancing the hobby.

On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6 interoperability  
and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost by some estimates of 
over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained schemes to pay for it but 
nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to succeed. The only viable option 
seems to let the carriers do it. Great, just what we need: a public safety 
system with all the reliability of our cell systems.

Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises with 
them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete jokes. 
Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had several 
speakers from industry , gov't and academia...

Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a question 
that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any testing or 
work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM 

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Ken Hohhof]

What, to build Trump’s wall?

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 5:03 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

Doesn't work...they take them anyway 

On Feb 25, 2016 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

  So we need a stencil and spray paint to mark our concrete blocks now?

  -Original Message- From: Caleb Knauer
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:29 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

  Less chance of a satellite installer or other nefarious character
  stealing your block to use on their sled because they're too lazy to
  bring their own?  Not common, not rare either.
  --
  IgniteNet
  ca...@ignitenet.com
  www.ignitenet.com
  We're hiring!  Ping me.


  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman
   wrote:

That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:


  This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
  which you fill will rocks .

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Ken Hohhof]

That’s a 6x8x16 hollow block.  I get 4x8x16 solid blocks from Menards, I think 
they are 34 lbs.  115 lbs per cu ft.  Your gravel number works out to 93 lbs 
per cu ft.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

6'x6'x6" of gravel is 1680 lbs or 60 28lb cinderblocks

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  No way.  Way more air in the volume of gravel.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I bet the same volume of gravel would weigh more than concrete 
blocksjust a thought.


On 2/25/2016 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a 
bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid 
cover which you fill will rocks . 









-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Ryan Ray]

Big thank you to Cambium who emailed me directly and got me a key. Super
helpful. Days like this remind me of why I've always bought Cambium and
will continue to do so.

Also the people who offered to help on the list. This is a great place,
proud to be here for the last 8 years or so.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> What frequency? I have a million 5.2 SM's that I could send you one for
> the price of shipping.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> We have done a floating and permanent in the past. This is our last
>> pmp100 on the network and they are desperate but all I have are lite sm's
>>
>> Sent while mobile
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 25, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> >
>> > Did such a key ever exist?  I thought they were floating keys
>> distributed through Prism.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 2/25/2016 2:15 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
>> >> Hey everyone,
>> >>
>> >> I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a
>> lite to 7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on hand.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Ryan
>> >>
>> >> Sent while mobile
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Adam Moffett]

Rock is denser than concrete.

Still it seems like a very situational use kind of item.


On 2/25/2016 5:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

6'x6'x6" of gravel is 1680 lbs or 60 28lb cinderblocks

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


No way.  Way more air in the volume of gravel.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

I bet the same volume of gravel would weigh more than concrete
blocksjust a thought.

On 2/25/2016 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not
just put a bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a
meshed grid cover which you fill will rocks .








--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Jaime Solorza]

Doesn't work...they take them anyway
On Feb 25, 2016 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> So we need a stencil and spray paint to mark our concrete blocks now?
>
> -Original Message- From: Caleb Knauer
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:29 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make
>
> Less chance of a satellite installer or other nefarious character
> stealing your block to use on their sled because they're too lazy to
> bring their own?  Not common, not rare either.
> --
> IgniteNet
> ca...@ignitenet.com
> www.ignitenet.com
> We're hiring!  Ping me.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
>
>> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
>> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza > >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
>>> which you fill will rocks .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

6'x6'x6" of gravel is 1680 lbs or 60 28lb cinderblocks

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> No way.  Way more air in the volume of gravel.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I bet the same volume of gravel would weigh more than concrete
>> blocksjust a thought.
>>
>> On 2/25/2016 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
>> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid
>>> cover which you fill will rocks .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT SpaceX

[Chuck McCown]

Screw the launch, it is the landing we want to see...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT SpaceX

Not for another hour.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:46 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  kaboom time?


  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast
Launch scheduled for 2 hours and 36 minutes from now.  




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT SpaceX

[Josh Luthman]

Not for another hour.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:46 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> kaboom time?
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> http://www.spacex.com/webcast
>> Launch scheduled for 2 hours and 36 minutes from now.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Josh Luthman]

No way.  Way more air in the volume of gravel.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I bet the same volume of gravel would weigh more than concrete
> blocksjust a thought.
>
> On 2/25/2016 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
>> which you fill will rocks .
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT SpaceX

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

kaboom time?

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> http://www.spacex.com/webcast
> Launch scheduled for 2 hours and 36 minutes from now.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Adam Moffett]

I bet the same volume of gravel would weigh more than concrete 
blocksjust a thought.


On 2/25/2016 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put 
a bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:


This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed
grid cover which you fill will rocks .

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

true story brah, nothing but worthless monkeys on them

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> No, towers are “monkey trees”, ask Steve.
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
>
> You might be on to something...
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Some people call their towers "money trees"
>
> On 2/25/2016 12:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> i highly recommend money trees.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:36 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Well, I got the financials last night.
>
> Im assuming you guys who said to walk away had an expectation of what
> those would look like
>
> I expected to see negative numbers, just not that many of them
>
> Im still going to complete the process to see what the final numbers are
> on the table for the experience. But aside from a miracle 40k falling from
> the sky, I dont see how anything could be turned around. Just fyi though,
> if anybody has an extra 40k laying around they were planning on throwing
> away, im not opposed to helping you to get rid of it
>
> I really doo appreciate all the wisdom, Ill apply it next dumb idea i have
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do enjoy the advice guys, thank you.
>>
>> Now heres a new twist, I called the primary today to get the full
>> financials together. They are willing to maintain the debt under contract
>> directly to me essentially finance me and maintain an interest rate there
>> is no way I could get . It boils down to, in the simplest of terms, she
>> just want out and does not want to be asked for any more money.
>>
>> I cant find any way this is a good idea
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, the
>>> two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the
>>> barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were
>>> to do this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that
>>> pulled the coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in
>>> part to this disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they
>>> skipped was substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the
>>> current owners, one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt
>>> in court, their salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at
>>> the walmart.
>>> but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was
>>> offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business
>>> decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the
>>> chair, no motivation.
>>>
>>> This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all
>>> open space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room
>>> with its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would
>>> potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that
>>> currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though
>>> because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate
>>> through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a
>>> transition to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the
>>> current state, or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was
>>> maintained, that independent contractor would have plenty of leeway.
>>>
>>>
>>> I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him up
>>> for one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying
>>> breed for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof < 
>>> af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>
 Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a barber
 with one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the
 front was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had
 sofas and Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy
 gets his hair cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he
 probably still has an hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.
 Or do the guys get mani-pedis and waxings now?  


 *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Josh Luthman]

No just use what Jaime linked.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 5:31 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> So we need a stencil and spray paint to mark our concrete blocks now?
>
> -Original Message- From: Caleb Knauer
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:29 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make
>
> Less chance of a satellite installer or other nefarious character
> stealing your block to use on their sled because they're too lazy to
> bring their own?  Not common, not rare either.
> --
> IgniteNet
> ca...@ignitenet.com
> www.ignitenet.com
> We're hiring!  Ping me.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
>
>> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
>> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza > >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
>>> which you fill will rocks .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Ken Hohhof]

So we need a stencil and spray paint to mark our concrete blocks now?

-Original Message- 
From: Caleb Knauer

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

Less chance of a satellite installer or other nefarious character
stealing your block to use on their sled because they're too lazy to
bring their own?  Not common, not rare either.
--
IgniteNet
ca...@ignitenet.com
www.ignitenet.com
We're hiring!  Ping me.


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:


This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
which you fill will rocks .

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Caleb Knauer]

Less chance of a satellite installer or other nefarious character
stealing your block to use on their sled because they're too lazy to
bring their own?  Not common, not rare either.
--
IgniteNet
ca...@ignitenet.com
www.ignitenet.com
We're hiring!  Ping me.


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>>
>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
>> which you fill will rocks .
>
>

[AFMUG] OT SpaceX

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.spacex.com/webcast
Launch scheduled for 2 hours and 36 minutes from now.  

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Jaime Solorza]

Fooey on you
On Feb 25, 2016 1:21 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> It looks like a pain in the back to me =P
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> This looks cooler...stop making sense
>> On Feb 25, 2016 1:15 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
>>> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid
 cover which you fill will rocks .

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Ken Hohhof]

No, towers are “monkey trees”, ask Steve.


From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon


You might be on to something...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

  Some people call their towers "money trees"


  On 2/25/2016 12:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i highly recommend money trees.

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

  Well, I got the financials last night. 

  Im assuming you guys who said to walk away had an expectation of what 
those would look like

  I expected to see negative numbers, just not that many of them

  Im still going to complete the process to see what the final numbers are 
on the table for the experience. But aside from a miracle 40k falling from the 
sky, I dont see how anything could be turned around. Just fyi though, if 
anybody has an extra 40k laying around they were planning on throwing away, im 
not opposed to helping you to get rid of it

  I really doo appreciate all the wisdom, Ill apply it next dumb idea i have

  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

I do enjoy the advice guys, thank you. 

Now heres a new twist, I called the primary today to get the full 
financials together. They are willing to maintain the debt under contract 
directly to me essentially finance me and maintain an interest rate there is no 
way I could get . It boils down to, in the simplest of terms, she just want out 
and does not want to be asked for any more money.

I cant find any way this is a good idea

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, 
the two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the 
barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were to do 
this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that pulled the 
coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in part to this 
disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they skipped was 
substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the current owners, 
one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt in court, their 
salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at the walmart. 
  but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was 
offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business 
decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the 
chair, no motivation.

  This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all 
open space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room 
with its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would 
potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that 
currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though 
because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate 
through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a transition 
to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the current state, 
or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was maintained, that 
independent contractor would have plenty of leeway. 


  I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him 
up for one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying breed 
for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.

  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a 
barber with one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the 
front was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had sofas 
and Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy gets his hair 
cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he probably still has an 
hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.  Or do the guys get 
mani-pedis and waxings now?  


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and 
not have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we 
get one per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained 
familiar relationship due 

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Josh Luthman]

It looks like a pain in the back to me =P


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> This looks cooler...stop making sense
> On Feb 25, 2016 1:15 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
>> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid
>>> cover which you fill will rocks .
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Jaime Solorza]

This looks cooler...stop making sense
On Feb 25, 2016 1:15 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
> bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
>> which you fill will rocks .
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Simple to make

[Josh Luthman]

That would be a bitch if you had to move/remove it.  Why not just put a
bunch of blocks there in angle iron instead of grate?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> This is a non penetrating mount with mastit's has a meshed grid cover
> which you fill will rocks .
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Sam Lambie]

What frequency? I have a million 5.2 SM's that I could send you one for the
price of shipping.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> We have done a floating and permanent in the past. This is our last pmp100
> on the network and they are desperate but all I have are lite sm's
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> >
> > Did such a key ever exist?  I thought they were floating keys
> distributed through Prism.
> >
> >
> >> On 2/25/2016 2:15 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
> >> Hey everyone,
> >>
> >> I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a
> lite to 7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on hand.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Ryan
> >>
> >> Sent while mobile
> >
>



-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Ryan Ray]

We have done a floating and permanent in the past. This is our last pmp100 on 
the network and they are desperate but all I have are lite sm's

Sent while mobile


> On Feb 25, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Did such a key ever exist?  I thought they were floating keys distributed 
> through Prism.
> 
> 
>> On 2/25/2016 2:15 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
>> Hey everyone,
>> 
>> I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a lite 
>> to 7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on hand.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Ryan
>> 
>> Sent while mobile
> 

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Adam Moffett]

Did such a key ever exist?  I thought they were floating keys 
distributed through Prism.



On 2/25/2016 2:15 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

Hey everyone,

I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a lite to 
7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on hand.

Thanks
Ryan

Sent while mobile

[AFMUG] PMP100 lite to regular key

[Ryan Ray]

Hey everyone,

I know it's a long shot but does anyone have an entitlement key for a lite to 
7Mb/s SM. It's an urgent request but I don't have any keys on hand.

Thanks
Ryan

Sent while mobile

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck McCown]

Much easier. 

From: Glen Waldrop 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

Sounds interesting.
Just regular dual polarity would be nice as well.



From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could do a 
dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter. 

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

9dB is what we have now.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  How much gain are you looking for?

  From: Chuck Hogg 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

  Hello: 

  I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out 
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the 
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them 
when it happens.

  So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or 
am I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

  Regards,
  Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Glen Waldrop]

Sounds interesting.
Just regular dual polarity would be nice as well.



From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could do a 
dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter. 

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

9dB is what we have now.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  How much gain are you looking for?

  From: Chuck Hogg 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

  Hello: 

  I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out 
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the 
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them 
when it happens.

  So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or 
am I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

  Regards,
  Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

You might be on to something...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon


  Some people call their towers "money trees"


  On 2/25/2016 12:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i highly recommend money trees.

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon


  Well, I got the financials last night. 


  Im assuming you guys who said to walk away had an expectation of what 
those would look like


  I expected to see negative numbers, just not that many of them


  Im still going to complete the process to see what the final numbers are 
on the table for the experience. But aside from a miracle 40k falling from the 
sky, I dont see how anything could be turned around. Just fyi though, if 
anybody has an extra 40k laying around they were planning on throwing away, im 
not opposed to helping you to get rid of it


  I really doo appreciate all the wisdom, Ill apply it next dumb idea i have


  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

I do enjoy the advice guys, thank you. 


Now heres a new twist, I called the primary today to get the full 
financials together. They are willing to maintain the debt under contract 
directly to me essentially finance me and maintain an interest rate there is no 
way I could get . It boils down to, in the simplest of terms, she just want out 
and does not want to be asked for any more money.


I cant find any way this is a good idea


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, 
the two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the 
barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were to do 
this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that pulled the 
coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in part to this 
disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they skipped was 
substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the current owners, 
one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt in court, their 
salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at the walmart. 
  but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was 
offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business 
decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the 
chair, no motivation.


  This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all 
open space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room 
with its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would 
potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that 
currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though 
because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate 
through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a transition 
to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the current state, 
or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was maintained, that 
independent contractor would have plenty of leeway. 




  I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him 
up for one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying breed 
for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.


  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a 
barber with one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the 
front was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had sofas 
and Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy gets his hair 
cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he probably still has an 
hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.  Or do the guys get 
mani-pedis and waxings now?  


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and 
not have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we 
get one per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained 
familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic 

Re: [AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear

[Stefan Englhardt]

Integra is 802.11at. So you should be able to use any .at compatible adapter. 
We power our Integras with netonix with passive 48VH.


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Craig Baird  
Datum: 25.02.2016  18:58  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: [AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear 

I have a 23 GHz SAF Integra link that has been in storage for a while.  We're 
about to re-deploy it, but we are missing a POE injector box for one side.  
Does anyone know if it's possible to swap POE injectors between different makes 
of licensed gear?  I have some extra Cambium PTP820 injectors I'd like to use 
if I could.  I also have some Dragonwave PONE injectors.  I suspect they all 
use the same POE scheme, and I know they pretty much all use 48vdc, but I don't 
want to smoke a radio.  Anyone know?

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear

[Chuck McCown]

The only thing common is that they put the power on the pairs through a 
split transformer.  Nothing seems to be common as to which pairs are what 
polarity and whether or not the chassis is floating or grounded.   If you 
look up the spec for the SAF and compare the POE pinout with the power 
supply you want to try they you will probably be OK.


-Original Message- 
From: Craig Baird

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear

I have a 23 GHz SAF Integra link that has been in storage for a while.
 We're about to re-deploy it, but we are missing a POE injector box
for one side.  Does anyone know if it's possible to swap POE injectors
between different makes of licensed gear?  I have some extra Cambium
PTP820 injectors I'd like to use if I could.  I also have some
Dragonwave PONE injectors.  I suspect they all use the same POE
scheme, and I know they pretty much all use 48vdc, but I don't want to
smoke a radio.  Anyone know?

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear

[Adam Moffett]

Run a separate power cable.
That's my 2c


On 2/25/2016 12:58 PM, Craig Baird wrote:
I have a 23 GHz SAF Integra link that has been in storage for a while. 
 We're about to re-deploy it, but we are missing a POE injector box 
for one side.  Does anyone know if it's possible to swap POE injectors 
between different makes of licensed gear?  I have some extra Cambium 
PTP820 injectors I'd like to use if I could.  I also have some 
Dragonwave PONE injectors.  I suspect they all use the same POE 
scheme, and I know they pretty much all use 48vdc, but I don't want to 
smoke a radio.  Anyone know?


Craig

[AFMUG] Swapping POE injectors between licensed gear

[Craig Baird]

I have a 23 GHz SAF Integra link that has been in storage for a while.  
 We're about to re-deploy it, but we are missing a POE injector box  
for one side.  Does anyone know if it's possible to swap POE injectors  
between different makes of licensed gear?  I have some extra Cambium  
PTP820 injectors I'd like to use if I could.  I also have some  
Dragonwave PONE injectors.  I suspect they all use the same POE  
scheme, and I know they pretty much all use 48vdc, but I don't want to  
smoke a radio.  Anyone know?


Craig

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, my GIGE products work on everything.  The 444 gives you LEDS and a test 
port for sub 100 mbps applications.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:52 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

I don't have any 444SS-SMT, but I just tried hooking up a Force 180 through a 
GIGE-APC-HV, and it seems to work fine with the Cambium PoE, or a UBNT PoE. 


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  UBNT is reverse polarity from the old FSK Canopy.  So there should be a 
polarity problem and possibly voltage and current issues.  Just spitballing 
here.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:35 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

  I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?

  I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS 
connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:


Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE 
and 
are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 
surge 
suppressors.

Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy 
PoE 
and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation 
of 
the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am 
aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will 
'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows 
for 
both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the 
devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or 
power.

I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE 
adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

  AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

  Force 110 isn't gig.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

I had this in my inbox this morning:
  Hi;

  We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with 
the 
  Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM 
would 
  not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

  Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  
If 
  so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get 
it 
  working?

Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Mathew Howard]

I don't have any 444SS-SMT, but I just tried hooking up a Force 180 through
a GIGE-APC-HV, and it seems to work fine with the Cambium PoE, or a UBNT
PoE.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> UBNT is reverse polarity from the old FSK Canopy.  So there should be a
> polarity problem and possibly voltage and current issues.  Just spitballing
> here.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:35 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>
>
> I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?
>
> I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS
>> connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and
>>> are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge
>>> suppressors.
>>>
>>> Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE
>>> and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of
>>> the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
>>> aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
>>> 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for
>>> both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
>>> devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or
>>> power.
>>>
>>> I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
>>> adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>>>
>>>
>>> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>>>
>>> Force 110 isn't gig.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 I had this in my inbox this morning:

 Hi;

 We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
 Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
 not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

 Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
 so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
 working?

 Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?



>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Josh Luthman]

I've used my same barber since I moved here.  That's what 18 years now?
She raise her rates over that same time, but she's always just gotten by.
Nice person, I always offer a nice tip.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:30 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
> We still have the traditional barbershop hereused the same guys for
> 20+ years.  Used to be $6.  Now it's ... $10?  $12
> still a steal, i guess.   I have to go right as the kids are being let out
> of school or there is a lineand i hate lines
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Bill Prince 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> I think I get my "haircuts" at one of those places, as traditional
> barbershops have all but disappeared around here.
>
> The place I go to has full service with those kind of prices, but you can
> still get a haircut for about $20. When you come in the door, there is a
> small waiting area, and you are offered refreshments including water, beer,
> etc. I think they have at least 20 chairs, as they've recently doubled
> their square footage by taking over a shop that was next door. I have no
> idea how they handle the finances, but I think the stylists are on some
> sort of payroll. All money goes through one one register at the front
> (excepting tips).
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/25/2016 7:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas.
> We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn
> over is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the
> waiting room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg
> beer - total cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there
> would be a pool table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars
> and such. There would be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head
> massage specialist" doing shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt
> to have that one be "Very" attractive. We got into the planning stages and
> then one called "The Boardroom" opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies
> who go there. Average price they pay is around $60. Some get straight razor
> shaves($20), haircut($30), manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good.
> I bet they are out of there within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are
> probably out in 30. Compare that to a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair
> and you have a pretty good business.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was
>> opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through
>> all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the
>> beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol
>> make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in
>> any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer
>> away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses.
>> Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money
>> if you are selling it.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake < 
>> simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>>
>>> Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free
>>> beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free
>>> beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..
>>>
>>> On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>>
>>> Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
>>> license if you are giving it away.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown < 
>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
 So, become a church...

 *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

 Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not
 have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we
 get one per church, so we have plenty of bars.

 A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
 familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
 than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
 specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
 wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
 time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
 one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

We still have the traditional barbershop hereused the same guys for 20+ 
years.  Used to be $6.  Now it's ... $10?  $12
still a steal, i guess.   I have to go right as the kids are being let out of 
school or there is a lineand i hate lines

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Prince 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon


  I think I get my "haircuts" at one of those places, as traditional 
barbershops have all but disappeared around here.

  The place I go to has full service with those kind of prices, but you can 
still get a haircut for about $20. When you come in the door, there is a small 
waiting area, and you are offered refreshments including water, beer, etc. I 
think they have at least 20 chairs, as they've recently doubled their square 
footage by taking over a shop that was next door. I have no idea how they 
handle the finances, but I think the stylists are on some sort of payroll. All 
money goes through one one register at the front (excepting tips).


bp


On 2/25/2016 7:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas. 
We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn over 
is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the waiting 
room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg beer - total 
cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there would be a pool 
table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars and such. There would 
be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head massage specialist" doing 
shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt to have that one be "Very" 
attractive. We got into the planning stages and then one called "The Boardroom" 
opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies who go there. Average price they 
pay is around $60. Some get straight razor shaves($20), haircut($30), 
manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good. I bet they are out of there 
within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are probably out in 30. Compare that to 
a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair and you have a pretty good business. 


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was 
opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through all 
the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the beer 
away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol make most of 
their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in any volume. I 
participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer away all day. 
Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses. Federal law says 
nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money if you are selling 
it. 


  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake  
wrote:

Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free 
beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free beer!' 
but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..


On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

  Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a 
license if you are giving it away. 


  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

So, become a church...

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and 
not have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we 
get one per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained 
familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im 
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time where all it would 
have taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the disaster 
would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that had 
either one of them not been in the mother/daughter environment, this would 
never have happened.

A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned 
from commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that 
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it 
which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, and the 
financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Josh Luthman]

Wouldn't you just build another building and hire another hairstylist if
you wanted to scale?  It may or may not be as profitable, but you are
scaling.

I know chiropractors that do exactly this.  They set up offices, build
their brand, and move to another area to do it all over.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I completely understand that... and I appreciate those type of businesses
> very much. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 2/25/2016 9:34 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/16 07:24, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> This sounds like a great little small business... however, it's very
>>> difficult to have a business like this actually scale. You are limited
>>> by "time" in a business like this. If you compare to selling internet
>>> service, you have an unlimited amount of "product" you can sell, and you
>>> aren't limited by 24 hours per day. :)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Scale isn't everything. Some people just want to be happy in life working
>> at something that's their own thing.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Ken Hohhof]

So be an Uber driver?
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-02-25

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon 


On 2/25/16 07:24, Travis Johnson wrote:

This sounds like a great little small business... however, it's very
difficult to have a business like this actually scale. You are limited
by "time" in a business like this. If you compare to selling internet
service, you have an unlimited amount of "product" you can sell, and you
aren't limited by 24 hours per day. :)



Scale isn't everything. Some people just want to be happy in life 
working at something that's their own thing.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Travis Johnson]

I completely understand that... and I appreciate those type of 
businesses very much. :)


Travis


On 2/25/2016 9:34 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 2/25/16 07:24, Travis Johnson wrote:

This sounds like a great little small business... however, it's very
difficult to have a business like this actually scale. You are limited
by "time" in a business like this. If you compare to selling internet
service, you have an unlimited amount of "product" you can sell, and you
aren't limited by 24 hours per day. :)



Scale isn't everything. Some people just want to be happy in life 
working at something that's their own thing.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I was looking at the monthy sheets and you can watch when the decision was
made by the two who left was made, and when they were funded. It took them
about a year, you see it in the reported revenue, that should have raised a
red flag when you see those types of percentage changes. My guess is the
final dollars came in with a tax refund, because right about that time you
see the revenue reported stabilize and the back rent start to be caught up.
My guess is the remaining months were spent grooming clients for the exit,
poisoning the well if you will and minimizing the risk of a lawsuit.
It explains something that happened, right around the time the anomalies
started was around the time the female of the duo pooled the chairs to
argue renewal of the lease contracts, effectively stopping the no compete
clause from renewing, pretty slick tbh. They rode out the term of the
existing no compete, all the while stealing from the shop to fund their
investment.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, James Howard  wrote:

> Well, if you only cut one hair for each beer they buy it could be
> lucrative.  “Honey, I got my hair cut for free.  Took a few weeks and had
> to buy a lot of beer but I got a bargain!”
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
>
>
> Not sure how well that would workout...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
>
> I'm still waiting for you to open the Crum Brewery.. maybe you can give
> away a free haircut with every beer?
>
> On 2/25/2016 9:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas.
> We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn
> over is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the
> waiting room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg
> beer - total cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there
> would be a pool table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars
> and such. There would be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head
> massage specialist" doing shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt
> to have that one be "Very" attractive. We got into the planning stages and
> then one called "The Boardroom" opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies
> who go there. Average price they pay is around $60. Some get straight razor
> shaves($20), haircut($30), manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good.
> I bet they are out of there within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are
> probably out in 30. Compare that to a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair
> and you have a pretty good business.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was
> opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through
> all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the
> beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol
> make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in
> any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer
> away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses.
> Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money
> if you are selling it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
>
> Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free
> beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free
> beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..
>
> On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
> license if you are giving it away.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> So, become a church...
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
>
>
> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>
>
>
> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
> one another and the disaster would 

[AFMUG] 'Passive Wi-Fi' researchers promise to cut Wi-Fi power by 10, 000x | Macworld

[Jaime Solorza]

http://www.macworld.com/article/3036777/networking/passive-wi-fi-researchers-promise-to-cut-wi-fi-power-by-1x.html

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/25/16 07:24, Travis Johnson wrote:

This sounds like a great little small business... however, it's very
difficult to have a business like this actually scale. You are limited
by "time" in a business like this. If you compare to selling internet
service, you have an unlimited amount of "product" you can sell, and you
aren't limited by 24 hours per day. :)



Scale isn't everything. Some people just want to be happy in life 
working at something that's their own thing.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[James Howard]

Well, if you only cut one hair for each beer they buy it could be lucrative.  
"Honey, I got my hair cut for free.  Took a few weeks and had to buy a lot of 
beer but I got a bargain!"

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Not sure how well that would workout...

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
I'm still waiting for you to open the Crum Brewery.. maybe you can give away a 
free haircut with every beer?
On 2/25/2016 9:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas. We 
actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn over is 
a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the waiting room 
be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg beer - total cost 
would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there would be a pool 
table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars and such. There would 
be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head massage specialist" doing 
shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt to have that one be "Very" 
attractive. We got into the planning stages and then one called "The Boardroom" 
opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies who go there. Average price they 
pay is around $60. Some get straight razor shaves($20), haircut($30), 
manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good. I bet they are out of there 
within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are probably out in 30. Compare that to 
a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair and you have a pretty good business.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum 
> wrote:
They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was opening 
new locations and their stores became ready before they got through all the 
legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the beer away. 
However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol make most of their 
profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in any volume. I 
participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer away all day. 
Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses. Federal law says 
nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money if you are selling 
it.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free beer 
with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free beer!' but 
maybe there's already something closing that loophole..
On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a license 
if you are giving it away.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
So, become a church...

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have a 
liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get one 
per church, so we have plenty of bars.

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained familiar 
relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im 
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time where all it would 
have taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the disaster 
would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that had 
either one of them not been in the mother/daughter environment, this would 
never have happened.

A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from 
commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that 
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it 
which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, and the 
financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In the 
schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls heads, retail, retail, 
retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody offers a 
haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the return of retail sales 
comission, and the return of loss leaders, they completely eliminated that 
struggling to float. I was talking to a friend of mine last night, she crochets 
artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps, whatever. these things move like hot 
cakes in the salons. We had tried to get them in the 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Ken Hohhof]

Probably like the farmers here that do their own electrical work rather than 
pay an electrician.  Some do really nice work.  Then there are the other 95%.  
My installer will say “there was an outlet there for the POE, but it was 
farmerized”.  So maybe loose wires not in conduit, neutral used as ground, no 
faceplate, and the box held to a stud with rusty visegrips.  But no inspection 
required, so why pay a professional?

One customer needed a security camera in his barn.  Anything I quoted was too 
expensive.  So he got a webcam at a big box store and some Cat5 cable and 
ziptied it to the overhead power wires.  OK, there are reasons we can’t do it 
that way.  Being a professional means you get paid, but it also means you carry 
liability insurance, get sued if you kill someone or burn down their house, or 
at least have to go back and fix it when you didn’t do it right the first time. 
 It also means you are depending for your income on referrals.  You can get 
government contracts based on low bid, but more discriminating customers rely 
on referrals and ratings.


From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

We will have to agree to disagree. I fire people that do shoddy work. I also 
routinely do site reviews after work is complete and have the work redone if 
required. Most of the people that I know in my industry do the same. Of course 
I only know the Motorola service organizations and out of those only the ones 
that have been around a long time. Anyway, looks like you have had some bad 
experiences of your own. Can't wait to hear from Jaime on what else he learned.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  I meant enthusiast, whether an unpaid HAM or a paid EOC Director. Doesn't 
matter.

  I think you place too much faith in people paid to do something. Most do it 
poorly.

  I think most public safety agencies are like most WISPs. Some do it great, 
most do it good enough, while some are a pile of shit.

  Now once you get to the low bidder half of your message, I think you're 
largely spot on.





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Lewis Bergman" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22:15 AM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show


  I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially 
since they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't 
likely to take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay 
thousands of dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding installations 
for instance. Not that a class teaches something you can't learn from various 
sources, just that we have to do it and it gets done. A HAM doesn't have to 
make the effort, while some will, many won't. 
  But you are correct in detecting a "shortness".
  Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins which in 
many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The exercises are 
meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do a pretty decent 
job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies use their gear every 
day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina doesn't happen every day. 
Sadly, when you tell someone their system is vulnerable because the genset they 
have is 25 years old and won't start or the batts need to be replaced or a 
hundred other things the response is usually We don't have the budget for that" 
or "I don't see why I need it because I can talk on my system now"

  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads.

I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better job 
than someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that those 
you're paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no means a 
guarantee of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a system is 
until the SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found during drills, 
but they're not 100%.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:56:33 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional 
skill levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill sets. 
But I will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a subject should 
be better at those tasks than someone doing them when they have spare 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

PIM mandates on jumper and feeder cables was big topic...in collocation or
near cell towers or in building DAS... they are replacing systems
nationwide... also Verizon LTE band 2 first harmonic affecting some
critical GPS systems.   Having to fix immediately.  ...an Italian company
has some pretty amazing new welded jumpers with sweep stats printed right
onto cable for certification.  Lots of testing and certifications coming up
with new spectrum auction at 600Mhz.   Wilson has a new DAS system which
covers 35000 sq. ft.   They are entering the middle tierthey can co
locate several BDA with seamless handover to cover 250 sq. ft.   Sub
2000.00 price point with new rules no issues with carriers and one unit
supports all the carriers.more on cipra latertrying to leave
Phoenix... have a support call back in El Paso with Motorola digital
repeater
On Feb 25, 2016 8:39 AM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> We will have to agree to disagree. I fire people that do shoddy work. I
> also routinely do site reviews after work is complete and have the work
> redone if required. Most of the people that I know in my industry do the
> same. Of course I only know the Motorola service organizations and out of
> those only the ones that have been around a long time. Anyway, looks like
> you have had some bad experiences of your own. Can't wait to hear from
> Jaime on what else he learned.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I meant enthusiast, whether an unpaid HAM or a paid EOC Director. Doesn't
>> matter.
>>
>> I think you place too much faith in people paid to do something. Most do
>> it poorly.
>>
>> I think most public safety agencies are like most WISPs. Some do it
>> great, most do it good enough, while some are a pile of shit.
>>
>> Now once you get to the low bidder half of your message, I think you're
>> largely spot on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22:15 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially
>> since they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't
>> likely to take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay
>> thousands of dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding
>> installations for instance. Not that a class teaches something you can't
>> learn from various sources, just that we have to do it and it gets done. A
>> HAM doesn't have to make the effort, while some will, many won't.
>> But you are correct in detecting a "shortness".
>> Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins
>> which in many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The
>> exercises are meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do
>> a pretty decent job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies
>> use their gear every day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina
>> doesn't happen every day. Sadly, when you tell someone their system is
>> vulnerable because the genset they have is 25 years old and won't start or
>> the batts need to be replaced or a hundred other things the response is
>> usually We don't have the budget for that" or "I don't see why I need it
>> because I can talk on my system now"
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads.
>>>
>>> I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better
>>> job than someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that
>>> those you're paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no
>>> means a guarantee of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a
>>> system is until the SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found
>>> during drills, but they're not 100%.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Josh Luthman]

Buy a beer keep the haircut.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 10:46 AM, "Cameron Crum"  wrote:

> Not sure how well that would workout...
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm still waiting for you to open the Crum Brewery.. maybe you can give
>> away a free haircut with every beer?
>>
>> On 2/25/2016 9:18 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas.
>> We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn
>> over is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the
>> waiting room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg
>> beer - total cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there
>> would be a pool table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars
>> and such. There would be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head
>> massage specialist" doing shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt
>> to have that one be "Very" attractive. We got into the planning stages and
>> then one called "The Boardroom" opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies
>> who go there. Average price they pay is around $60. Some get straight razor
>> shaves($20), haircut($30), manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good.
>> I bet they are out of there within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are
>> probably out in 30. Compare that to a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair
>> and you have a pretty good business.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was
>>> opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through
>>> all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the
>>> beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol
>>> make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in
>>> any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer
>>> away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses.
>>> Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money
>>> if you are selling it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake <
>>> simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>>>
 Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free
 beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free
 beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..

 On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

 Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
 license if you are giving it away.

 On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown < 
 ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> So, become a church...
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not
> have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think 
> we
> get one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>
> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>
> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned
> from commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once
> that happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in
> pushing it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a 
> pay
> cut, and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, 
> the
> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

Oh oops

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 10:42 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> Correct - that's why I said except for the connectorized/force110 ;-)
>
> All of GPS radios, the Force 180, Force 200 and all of the 2.4ghz stuff
> will work with either polarity.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?
>>
>> I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS
>>> connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:



 Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE
 and
 are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2
 surge
 suppressors.

 Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy
 PoE
 and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation
 of
 the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
 aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows
 for
 both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
 devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or
 power.

 I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
 adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.


 *From:* Josh Luthman 
 *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe


 AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

 Force 110 isn't gig.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>
> Hi;
>
> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM
> would
> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>
> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
> working?
>
> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>
>
>

>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Mathew Howard]

Correct - that's why I said except for the connectorized/force110 ;-)

All of GPS radios, the Force 180, Force 200 and all of the 2.4ghz stuff
will work with either polarity.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?
>
> I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS
>> connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and
>>> are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge
>>> suppressors.
>>>
>>> Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE
>>> and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of
>>> the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
>>> aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
>>> 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for
>>> both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
>>> devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or
>>> power.
>>>
>>> I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
>>> adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>>>
>>>
>>> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>>>
>>> Force 110 isn't gig.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 I had this in my inbox this morning:

 Hi;

 We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
 Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
 not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

 Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
 so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
 working?

 Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?



>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Chuck McCown]

UBNT is reverse polarity from the old FSK Canopy.  So there should be a 
polarity problem and possibly voltage and current issues.  Just spitballing 
here.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?

I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

  Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS 
connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.


  On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:


  Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and 
  are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge 
  suppressors.

  Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE 
  and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of 
  the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am 
  aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will 
  'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for 
  both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the 
  devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.

  I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE 
  adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

Force 110 isn't gig.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I had this in my inbox this morning:
Hi;

We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the 
Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would 
not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If 
so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it 
working?

  Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

We will have to agree to disagree. I fire people that do shoddy work. I
also routinely do site reviews after work is complete and have the work
redone if required. Most of the people that I know in my industry do the
same. Of course I only know the Motorola service organizations and out of
those only the ones that have been around a long time. Anyway, looks like
you have had some bad experiences of your own. Can't wait to hear from
Jaime on what else he learned.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I meant enthusiast, whether an unpaid HAM or a paid EOC Director. Doesn't
> matter.
>
> I think you place too much faith in people paid to do something. Most do
> it poorly.
>
> I think most public safety agencies are like most WISPs. Some do it great,
> most do it good enough, while some are a pile of shit.
>
> Now once you get to the low bidder half of your message, I think you're
> largely spot on.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22:15 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially
> since they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't
> likely to take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay
> thousands of dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding
> installations for instance. Not that a class teaches something you can't
> learn from various sources, just that we have to do it and it gets done. A
> HAM doesn't have to make the effort, while some will, many won't.
> But you are correct in detecting a "shortness".
> Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins which
> in many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The exercises
> are meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do a pretty
> decent job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies use their
> gear every day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina doesn't
> happen every day. Sadly, when you tell someone their system is vulnerable
> because the genset they have is 25 years old and won't start or the batts
> need to be replaced or a hundred other things the response is usually We
> don't have the budget for that" or "I don't see why I need it because I can
> talk on my system now"
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads.
>>
>> I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better job
>> than someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that
>> those you're paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no
>> means a guarantee of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a
>> system is until the SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found
>> during drills, but they're not 100%.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:56:33 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional
>> skill levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill
>> sets. But I will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a
>> subject should be better at those tasks than someone doing them when they
>> have spare time.
>> I think we agree more than you might think. My apologies if I struck a
>> sensitive chord.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:14 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

I don't think force 110 works with UBNT POE does it?

I thought that was a new benefit of force 200.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 10:34 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS
> connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and
>> are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge
>> suppressors.
>>
>> Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE
>> and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of
>> the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
>> aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
>> 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for
>> both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
>> devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.
>>
>> I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
>> adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>>
>>
>> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>>
>> Force 110 isn't gig.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>>
>>> Hi;
>>>
>>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>>
>>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>>> working?
>>>
>>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, all the ePMP's except for the old integrated 5ghz and the non-GPS
connectorized 5ghz/Force110 will work with either PoE polarity.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:
>
>
>
> Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and
> are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge
> suppressors.
>
> Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE
> and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of
> the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
> aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
> 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for
> both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
> devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.
>
> I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
> adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>
>
> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>
> Force 110 isn't gig.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>
>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>> working?
>>
>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Brandon Yuchasz]

We have done direct swaps pulling down FSK and plugging in force 180. Never 
went inside to change any power supplies.

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

 

He's right there.  I would expect the 100meg POE to work.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 10:20 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:

 

 

Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and 
are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge 
suppressors.

Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE 
and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of 
the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am 
aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will 
'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for 
both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the 
devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.

I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE 
adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.

 

From: Josh Luthman   

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

 

AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

Force 110 isn't gig.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

I had this in my inbox this morning:

Hi;

We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the 
Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would 
not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If 
so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it 
working?

Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Mike Hammett]

I meant enthusiast, whether an unpaid HAM or a paid EOC Director. Doesn't 
matter. 

I think you place too much faith in people paid to do something. Most do it 
poorly. 

I think most public safety agencies are like most WISPs. Some do it great, most 
do it good enough, while some are a pile of shit. 

Now once you get to the low bidder half of your message, I think you're largely 
spot on. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 


I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially since 
they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't likely to 
take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay thousands of 
dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding installations for instance. 
Not that a class teaches something you can't learn from various sources, just 
that we have to do it and it gets done. A HAM doesn't have to make the effort, 
while some will, many won't. 
But you are correct in detecting a "shortness". 
Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins which in 
many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The exercises are 
meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do a pretty decent 
job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies use their gear every 
day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina doesn't happen every day. 
Sadly, when you tell someone their system is vulnerable because the genset they 
have is 25 years old and won't start or the batts need to be replaced or a 
hundred other things the response is usually We don't have the budget for that" 
or "I don't see why I need it because I can talk on my system now" 


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads. 

I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better job than 
someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that those you're 
paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no means a guarantee 
of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a system is until the 
SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found during drills, but they're 
not 100%. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 



Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:56:33 AM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 

You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional skill 
levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill sets. But I 
will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a subject should be 
better at those tasks than someone doing them when they have spare time. 
I think we agree more than you might think. My apologies if I struck a 
sensitive chord. 


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:14 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having seen many "professional" systems, I'm not sure that's much of a 
benchmark. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 



Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07:36 AM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 





While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The question 
at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their operation 
readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These public safety 
officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically being evaluated 
during these exercises. 


The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they are 
amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747, being a 
HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or run an EOC. 
Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper training, as someone 
mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place for them that can 
benefit public safety. 


We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it We 
installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be integrated 
into the operations there. So, I do work with them. 


I only have issues with two types of HAM's or anyone around a specific 
industry. 


1. freeloaders - Don't ask me to give you something free just because you 
like doing it. this is my business, not my hobby. 
2. Know it all - I have been in the radio business officially since I was 9 
(first FCC license issued). I am a paid, highly trained professional with a lot 
of education and experience in the field. Just because 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

He's right there.  I would expect the 100meg POE to work.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 10:20 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:
>
>
>
> Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and
> are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge
> suppressors.
>
> Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE
> and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of
> the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am
> aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will
> 'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for
> both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the
> devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.
>
> I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE
> adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>
>
> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>
> Force 110 isn't gig.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>
>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>> working?
>>
>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

I agree that an enthusiast will likely try to do a better job, especially
since they are likely working on their own equipment. An enthusiast isn't
likely to take a week off of work, travel to a class 3 states away, and pay
thousands of dollars to become certified in proper R56 grounding
installations for instance. Not that a class teaches something you can't
learn from various sources, just that we have to do it and it gets done. A
HAM doesn't have to make the effort, while some will, many won't.
But you are correct in detecting a "shortness".
Sadly, where tax dollars are concerned, the low bidder normally wins which
in many cases results in a lower value for the dollar spent. The exercises
are meant to expose equipment and procedural short comings and do a pretty
decent job of that. As for the SHTF, our public safety agancies use their
gear every day all day. The SHTF every day. Of course a Catrina doesn't
happen every day. Sadly, when you tell someone their system is vulnerable
because the genset they have is 25 years old and won't start or the batts
need to be replaced or a hundred other things the response is usually We
don't have the budget for that" or "I don't see why I need it because I can
talk on my system now"

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:10 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads.
>
> I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better job
> than someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that
> those you're paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no
> means a guarantee of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a
> system is until the SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found
> during drills, but they're not 100%.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:56:33 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional
> skill levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill
> sets. But I will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a
> subject should be better at those tasks than someone doing them when they
> have spare time.
> I think we agree more than you might think. My apologies if I struck a
> sensitive chord.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:14 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Having seen many "professional" systems, I'm not sure that's much of a
>> benchmark.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07:36 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The
>> question at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their
>> operation readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These
>> public safety officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically
>> being evaluated during these exercises.
>>
>> The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they
>> are amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747,
>> being a HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or
>> run an EOC. Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper
>> training, as someone mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place
>> for them that can benefit public safety.
>>
>> We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it
>> We installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Chuck McCown]

Same customer replies with something I didn’t know:


  Yes, the newer Cambium ePMP Force 180 ship standard with a 1Gbps PoE and 
  are 1Gbps Ethernet interfaces.   We currently have the 444S-REV-A2 surge 
  suppressors.

  Note that the Force 180 is backward compatible with the older Canopy PoE 
  and Canopy 600SS surge suppressors (in fact even the first generation of 
  the Canopy surge suppressors appear to work so far). As far as I am 
  aware from their current docs (webinars), the newer ePMP Force 180 will 
  'autosense' which PoE is being used and work. Therefore, this allows for 
  both the legacy PoE adapters and (competitors as well) to work on the 
  devices without having to worry about that reverse pin-out story or power.

  I haven't attempted to test the 444SS surge with the 100Mbps PoE 
  adapters as yet.  Maybe I will try that and give you my results.


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

Force 110 isn't gig.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I had this in my inbox this morning:
Hi;

We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the 
Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would 
not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If 
so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it 
working?

  Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Cameron Crum]

BTW, high end men's salons are becoming a trend, at least in urban areas.
We actually talked about opening one here. My wife says the customer turn
over is a lot faster and they pay almost as much. The idea was to have the
waiting room be a sort of bar/hang out. We give away free beer (2 max, keg
beer - total cost would be like $2/cutomer depending on the beer) and there
would be a pool table, sports games on TV, even a smoking room for cigars
and such. There would be a chair massage (for a fee of course), and a "head
massage specialist" doing shampoos as part of every cut. It wouldn't hurt
to have that one be "Very" attractive. We got into the planning stages and
then one called "The Boardroom" opened up. Oh well. However, I have buddies
who go there. Average price they pay is around $60. Some get straight razor
shaves($20), haircut($30), manicures, pedicures, etc. That is pretty good.
I bet they are out of there within 45 min. Just a haircut and they are
probably out in 30. Compare that to a girl who can take 2+ hours in a chair
and you have a pretty good business.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was
> opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through
> all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the
> beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol
> make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in
> any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer
> away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses.
> Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money
> if you are selling it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
>
>> Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free
>> beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free
>> beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..
>>
>> On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
>> license if you are giving it away.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> So, become a church...
>>>
>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>>>
>>> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not
>>> have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we
>>> get one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>>>
>>> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
>>> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
>>> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
>>> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
>>> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
>>> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
>>> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
>>> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
>>> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>>>
>>> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
>>> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
>>> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
>>> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
>>> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
>>> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
>>> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
>>> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
>>> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
>>> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
>>> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
>>> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
>>> get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
>>> on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
>>> them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
>>> at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
>>> neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
>>> their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
>>> salons.
>>>
>>> The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for
>>> her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Simon Westlake]

Damn, I guess I need to keep my eyes open for more free beer!

On 2/25/2016 9:04 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters 
was opening new locations and their stores became ready before they 
got through all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and 
they just gave the beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most 
places that serve alcohol make most of their profit on it, so it 
wouldn't be smart to give it away in any volume. I participate in a 
lot of brewing competitions and we give beer away all day. Many are at 
established businesses without liqor licenses. Federal law says 
nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money if you are 
selling it.


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake > wrote:


Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like
'Free beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and
get a free beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that
loophole..

On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't
need a license if you are giving it away.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

So, become a church...
*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it
and not have a liquor license, but there are no available
licenses here, i think we get one per church, so we have
plenty of bars.
A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a
strained familiar relationship due to differences in visions.
Both parties are more than agreeable to the whole scenario, I
met with each separately specifically to see what the dynamic
was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time
where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to
talk to one another and the disaster would have been
avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that
had either one of them not been in the mother/daughter
environment, this would never have happened.
A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got
transitioned from commission sales to a mechanism the keep
the business floating. Once that happened two things took
place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it which was
made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in
any new retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill
that into the girls heads, retail, retail, retail, without
it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody offers a
haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the return
of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders,
they completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was
talking to a friend of mine last night, she crochets artsy
shit like baby covers and boob caps, whatever. these things
move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to get them
in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make
profit on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to
spend the time making them for what they wanted to pay, on
top of that they wanted to sell them at too much markup. This
girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at neat stuff.
There are two other chics in town that make similar items,
but their styles are identical to one another, and they sell
them in all the salons.
The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short
time for her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id
have no intention of making profit on them, thats actually an
expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some tit hat, but that
client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs one as well,
and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the
option to discount them even further when the new customer
comes in to get one, if they can leverage it for a service
and new contact capture. Women are weird in the crap theyll
drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the option to grow
their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing contact,
thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".
I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the
ether, but one thing the daughter wanted but the financier
  

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Cameron Crum]

They do Simon. In fact, there have been several cases where Hooters was
opening new locations and their stores became ready before they got through
all the legal wranglings for their beer/wine license and they just gave the
beer away. However, I'm pretty sure that most places that serve alcohol
make most of their profit on it, so it wouldn't be smart to give it away in
any volume. I participate in a lot of brewing competitions and we give beer
away all day. Many are at established businesses without liqor licenses.
Federal law says nothing about giving it away. They just want the tax money
if you are selling it.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Simon Westlake 
wrote:

> Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free
> beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free
> beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..
>
> On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
> license if you are giving it away.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> So, become a church...
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>>
>> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
>> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
>> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>>
>> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
>> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
>> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
>> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
>> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
>> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
>> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
>> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
>> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>>
>> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
>> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
>> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
>> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
>> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
>> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
>> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
>> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
>> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
>> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
>> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
>> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
>> get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
>> on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
>> them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
>> at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
>> neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
>> their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
>> salons.
>>
>> The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for
>> her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of
>> making profit on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks
>> on some tit hat, but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs
>> one as well, and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the
>> option to discount them even further when the new customer comes in to get
>> one, if they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women
>> are weird in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the
>> option to grow their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing
>> contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".
>>
>> I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but
>> one thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify
>> was surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every
>> corner that can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough
>> about the industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not
>> serious about growing their small business, and they can find a chair in
>> another salon. This may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a
>> high revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i
>> know what kind of trash one is 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Well, I got the financials last night.

Im assuming you guys who said to walk away had an expectation of what those
would look like

I expected to see negative numbers, just not that many of them

Im still going to complete the process to see what the final numbers are on
the table for the experience. But aside from a miracle 40k falling from the
sky, I dont see how anything could be turned around. Just fyi though, if
anybody has an extra 40k laying around they were planning on throwing away,
im not opposed to helping you to get rid of it

I really doo appreciate all the wisdom, Ill apply it next dumb idea i have

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do enjoy the advice guys, thank you.
>
> Now heres a new twist, I called the primary today to get the full
> financials together. They are willing to maintain the debt under contract
> directly to me essentially finance me and maintain an interest rate there
> is no way I could get . It boils down to, in the simplest of terms, she
> just want out and does not want to be asked for any more money.
>
> I cant find any way this is a good idea
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, the
>> two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the
>> barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were
>> to do this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that
>> pulled the coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in
>> part to this disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they
>> skipped was substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the
>> current owners, one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt
>> in court, their salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at
>> the walmart.
>> but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was
>> offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business
>> decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the
>> chair, no motivation.
>>
>> This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all
>> open space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room
>> with its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would
>> potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that
>> currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though
>> because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate
>> through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a
>> transition to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the
>> current state, or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was
>> maintained, that independent contractor would have plenty of leeway.
>>
>>
>> I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him up
>> for one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying
>> breed for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a barber
>>> with one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the
>>> front was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had
>>> sofas and Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy
>>> gets his hair cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he
>>> probably still has an hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.
>>> Or do the guys get mani-pedis and waxings now?  
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>>>
>>> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not
>>> have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we
>>> get one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>>>
>>> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
>>> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
>>> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
>>> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
>>> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
>>> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
>>> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
>>> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
>>> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>>>
>>> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
>>> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

That's right

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 9:20 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> So Force 110 is the old standard canopy POE wiring, right?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe
>
>
> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>
> Force 110 isn't gig.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>
>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>> working?
>>
>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Chuck McCown]

So Force 110 is the old standard canopy POE wiring, right?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

Force 110 isn't gig.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I had this in my inbox this morning:
Hi;

We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the 
Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would 
not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If 
so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it 
working?

  Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

That guy bought em all but doesn't know how to install them :P

I've got a few integrated left so I haven't looked for any, sorry.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 9:14 AM, "Josh Baird"  wrote:

> 
> Where in the hell is the Force180 anyways?  I have never seen it in stock
> from any vendor.
> 
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>>
>> Force 110 isn't gig.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>>
>>> Hi;
>>>
>>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>>
>>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>>> working?
>>>
>>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Baird]

Where in the hell is the Force180 anyways?  I have never seen it in stock
from any vendor.


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.
>
> Force 110 isn't gig.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
>> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
>> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>>
>> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
>> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
>> working?
>>
>> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Mike Hammett]

I just saw the "shortness" in the various HAM related threads. 

I think we'll agree that an enthusiast (paid or not) will do a better job than 
someone just showing up. As a tax-payer, you sure would hope that those you're 
paying to do the job are doing it better, but there's by no means a guarantee 
of that. Unfortunately, no one knows how good or bad a system is until the 
SHTF. True, the most egregious of problems are found during drills, but they're 
not 100%. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:56:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 

You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional skill 
levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill sets. But I 
will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a subject should be 
better at those tasks than someone doing them when they have spare time. 
I think we agree more than you might think. My apologies if I struck a 
sensitive chord. 


On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:14 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having seen many "professional" systems, I'm not sure that's much of a 
benchmark. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 



Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07:36 AM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 





While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The question 
at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their operation 
readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These public safety 
officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically being evaluated 
during these exercises. 


The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they are 
amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747, being a 
HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or run an EOC. 
Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper training, as someone 
mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place for them that can 
benefit public safety. 


We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it We 
installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be integrated 
into the operations there. So, I do work with them. 


I only have issues with two types of HAM's or anyone around a specific 
industry. 


1. freeloaders - Don't ask me to give you something free just because you 
like doing it. this is my business, not my hobby. 
2. Know it all - I have been in the radio business officially since I was 9 
(first FCC license issued). I am a paid, highly trained professional with a lot 
of education and experience in the field. Just because you read a book and took 
a test doesn't mean you know everything. I don't know everything either, by I 
recognize it. 


These things cross all boundaries. I also didn't like some geek telling me how 
I should configure my large IP topology because he once configured a Linksys 
router at his grandmother's house so his XBox would function and it worked. 
Know your place, that is all I am saying. 


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason. 

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Josh Luthman]

AP is gig.  Force 180 is the new integrated sideways radio also gig.

Force 110 isn't gig.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 25, 2016 9:06 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I had this in my inbox this morning:
>
> Hi;
>
> We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the
> Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would
> not come on and/or was accessible via IP.
>
> Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If
> so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it
> working?
>
> Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?
>
>
>

[AFMUG] epmp 1000 poe

[Chuck McCown]

I had this in my inbox this morning:
  Hi;

  We tried to install the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor to be used with the 
  Cambium Networks ePMP 1000 series SMs (ePMP Force 180) and the SM would 
  not come on and/or was accessible via IP.

  Is the 444SS-SMT surge suppressor compatible with the 1000 series?  If 
  so, is there something else that we should be doing in order to get it 
  working?

Isn’t the ePMP 1000 etc all GigE configuration?  

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

You would be as justified to say there are a wide variety of professional
skill levels of radio people as I am in saying the same about HAM's skill
sets. But I will say, on average, a person paid and tested daily on a
subject should be better at those tasks than someone doing them when they
have spare time.
I think we agree more than you might think. My apologies if I struck a
sensitive chord.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016, 7:14 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Having seen many "professional" systems, I'm not sure that's much of a
> benchmark.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07:36 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The
> question at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their
> operation readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These
> public safety officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically
> being evaluated during these exercises.
>
> The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they
> are amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747,
> being a HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or
> run an EOC. Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper
> training, as someone mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place
> for them that can benefit public safety.
>
> We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it
> We installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be
> integrated into the operations there. So, I do work with them.
>
> I only have issues with two types of HAM's or anyone around a specific
> industry.
>
>1. freeloaders - Don't ask me to give you something free just because
>you like doing it. this is my business, not my hobby.
>2. Know it all - I have been in the radio business officially since I
>was 9 (first FCC license issued). I am a paid, highly trained professional
>with a lot of education and experience in the field. Just because you read
>a book and took a test doesn't mean you know everything. I don't know
>everything either, by I recognize it.
>
> These things cross all boundaries. I also didn't like some geek telling me
> how I should configure my large IP topology because he once configured a
> Linksys router at his grandmother's house so his XBox would function and it
> worked. Know your place, that is all I am saying.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
>> dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Mike Hammett]

Having seen many "professional" systems, I'm not sure that's much of a 
benchmark. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 


While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The question 
at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their operation 
readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These public safety 
officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically being evaluated 
during these exercises. 


The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they are 
amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747, being a 
HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or run an EOC. 
Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper training, as someone 
mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place for them that can 
benefit public safety. 


We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it We 
installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be integrated 
into the operations there. So, I do work with them. 


I only have issues with two types of HAM's or anyone around a specific 
industry. 


1. freeloaders - Don't ask me to give you something free just because you 
like doing it. this is my business, not my hobby. 
2. Know it all - I have been in the radio business officially since I was 9 
(first FCC license issued). I am a paid, highly trained professional with a lot 
of education and experience in the field. Just because you read a book and took 
a test doesn't mean you know everything. I don't know everything either, by I 
recognize it. 


These things cross all boundaries. I also didn't like some geek telling me how 
I should configure my large IP topology because he once configured a Linksys 
router at his grandmother's house so his XBox would function and it worked. 
Know your place, that is all I am saying. 


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason. 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Adam Moffett]

This right here is one of the key traits that makes a good technician.  
Assumptions and inferences are necessary specifically BECAUSE we can't 
know everything, but we have to recognize them for what they are and not 
start thinking of them as facts.



I don't know everything either, by I recognize it.

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

While I have had many bad experiences I also employ several HAMS. The
question at hand was "Why don't emergency personal involve HAMS in their
operation readiness exercises?". I was merely offering a reason. These
public safety officials are professionals, not amateurs, and are typically
being evaluated during these exercises.

The only HAM's I have issues with are the ones that cannot accept they
are amateurs. Just like flying a drone doesn't qualify you to fly a 747,
being a HAM doesn't qualify you to design a public safety radio system or
run an EOC. Some HAM's are qualified, but many are not. With proper
training, as someone mentioned in a different thread, there is a real place
for them that can benefit public safety.

We just installed a P25 radio system in a hospital EOC and as part of it We
installed additional coax lines so that HAM's could more easily be
integrated into the operations there. So, I do work with them.

I only have issues with two types of HAM's or anyone around a specific
industry.

   1. freeloaders - Don't ask me to give you something free just because
   you like doing it. this is my business, not my hobby.
   2. Know it all - I have been in the radio business officially since I
   was 9 (first FCC license issued). I am a paid, highly trained professional
   with a lot of education and experience in the field. Just because you read
   a book and took a test doesn't mean you know everything. I don't know
   everything either, by I recognize it.

These things cross all boundaries. I also didn't like some geek telling me
how I should configure my large IP topology because he once configured a
Linksys router at his grandmother's house so his XBox would function and it
worked. Know your place, that is all I am saying.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing
> with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>
>>
>>