Re: [AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

no tool?  I'm disappointed...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jay Weekley 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 10:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it


  That is one of my all time favorite songs.  An employee asked me a few 
  hours ago what artist or group I would follow around if I had the 
  opportunity and Ozzy Osbourne was my first answer followed closely by 
  Judas Priest, Dio (if he was alive) and Iron Maiden.

  Sterling Jacobson wrote:
  > A little Monday fun.
  >
  > In 2003 I quit being a 9-5 software engineer and started a WISP.
  >
  > It was the downturn of the tech bubble in the early 2000's and I was sick 
of it.
  >
  > I had no idea what the hell I was doing.
  >
  > It was a crazy ride and way outside of my expertise and comfort zone.
  >
  > The lyrics to Ozzy's Believer were a part of the songs that got me through 
it all.
  >
  > I think I played this song every time I started up the mountain to fix 
another POS radio problem, lol!
  >
  > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYP_HImgu4
  >
  > Lyrics for those that like Ozzy (emphasis added) :)
  >
  >
  > Watching the time go and feeling belief grow
  > Rise above the obstacles
  > People beseech me but they'll never teach me
  > Things that I already know (I know)
  > --> Dreams that have shattered may not have mattered
  > Take another point of view
  > Doubts will arise though like chasing a rainbow
  > I can tell a thing or two (that's true)
  > --> You've got to believe in yourself
  > or no one Will believe in you
  > Imagination like a bird on the wing
  > Flying, free for you to use (okay baby)
  > I can't believe they stop and stare
  > And point their fingers doubting me
  > Their disbelief suppresses them
  > --> But they're not blind it's just that they won't see
  > I'm a believer, I ain't no deceiver
  > Mountains move before my eyes
  > --> Destiny planned out I don't need no handout
  > Speculation of the wise
  >
  >
  > -
  > No virus found in this message.
  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  > Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/14069 - Release Date: 03/06/17
  >
  >
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] IL/MO Tornadoes, Take 2

[George Skorup]

That line looks pretty nuckin futs on radar.

On 3/6/2017 9:46 PM, Jordan Gregory wrote:

Bevier, MO confirmed tornado, long line headed east...

Keep your heads up everyone, looks like we are in for a long night again.

Thank You,

Jordan Gregory
Founder / CEO
Hive Wireless, LLC

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Josh Reynolds]

Seriously though... Alphion obviously doesn't have the level of software
toys/tools that Calix does obviously, but when the cost is like 1/8th, you
can spend that money on contractors and OLTs and ONTs and get way more subs
installed much faster - and it's something that is still based on open
standards.

That's a hard business proposition to ignore.

On Mar 6, 2017 6:59 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> haha… yeah fair enough ;)
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> It can be different when you're the one paying for it :)
>
> On Mar 6, 2017 5:13 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:
>
>> Interesting …. do they work ok?
>>
>> I came from Calix and Adtran world for GPON/ONT stuff … considerably more
>> than that.  I did look at some DWDM stuff from China and it was total junk
>> in my opinion - some people like it .. not my thing.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power
>> Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the
>> split.  Check Alibaba.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in
>>> another OLT if needed.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was
>>> 64x1. The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.


 Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the
 future.


 I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?


 The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
 cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.


 AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can
 still supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that
 much on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially
 backwards compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like
 mine. But again, lots of power is required.


 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON


 Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
 wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
 the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
 Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
 sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.


 *From:* Carlos Alcantar

 *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON


 to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this
 year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.



 Carlos Alcantar

 Race Communications / Race Team Member

 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%28415%29%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
 http://www.race.com

 --

 *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
 george.sko...@cbcast.com>
 *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON


 I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
 and watching Netflix.

 The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
 utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
 switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
 network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
 don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
 There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
 lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.

 Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood
 of rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
 more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
 build it.

 On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

 Alphion does, yes.


 On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

 What kind of costs are you talking?
 Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

 Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
 -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March
 04, 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Josh Reynolds]

Yes, are inside and outside crews were offset 1-2 days on scheduling.
Different crews doing different parts, with a floater crew that could do
both.

On Mar 6, 2017 7:31 PM, "Craig Schmaderer"  wrote:

> This might only answer half your question but we don't install a customer
> until the entire pon cabinet is done, main line all done and main cross
> splice cases are done.  (About 250 houses usually is the size) So if its a
> new install drop and that handhole doesn't have a splice in yet (because
> this is the first of 4-6 drop handhole) so I would say it takes at least
> 4-6 man hours to do this.  We usually will have a drop crew install the
> drop a day before and splice everything up to the house. Than our wireless
> installers install inside the house the next days. Drop guys get durty and
> usually its hard to guess how long a drop will take so we have found it
> easier for the inside installer to come later.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Paul Stewart <
> p...@paulstewart.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 7:03:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
>
> Thanks - that helps for sure…. I came up with 4 hours per dwelling on
> average from start to finish to have the service on the curb and ready to
> pull in …
>
> Basically, in a situation where have permits, locates, engineering and
> everything in place - now guys go! :)  Then as orders come in, then
> “installation” happens and I figured 4 hours there as well doing one off
> installs
>
> Really rough and as you know lots of factors but it doesn’t seem my
> estimate is far off
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
>
> > On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >
> > That's what happens when you don't actually read the post
> >
> > We provide the duct if the developer provides the trench, so that part
> is pretty quick.  Handholes are installed later.  Probably a half hour per
> dwelling for empty duct and handholes.
> >
> > Then we pull and splice.  Add another hour per dwelling.
> >
> > Then we hang the ONT and install.  Probably 3 hours per dwelling.  But
> that is doing them in volume with a crew of 4-6 guys.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:21 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> >
> > 80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> >> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >>
> >> 80%
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> >> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
> >> To: Animal Farm
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> >>
> >> I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list ….
> it’s an open ended question I realize…
> >>
> >> For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment
> (meaning primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time
> to trench the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a
> customer premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man
> hours involved with going down a street and having everything ready for
> service leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it

[Jay Weekley]

That is one of my all time favorite songs.  An employee asked me a few 
hours ago what artist or group I would follow around if I had the 
opportunity and Ozzy Osbourne was my first answer followed closely by 
Judas Priest, Dio (if he was alive) and Iron Maiden.


Sterling Jacobson wrote:

A little Monday fun.

In 2003 I quit being a 9-5 software engineer and started a WISP.

It was the downturn of the tech bubble in the early 2000's and I was sick of it.

I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

It was a crazy ride and way outside of my expertise and comfort zone.

The lyrics to Ozzy's Believer were a part of the songs that got me through it 
all.

I think I played this song every time I started up the mountain to fix another 
POS radio problem, lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYP_HImgu4

Lyrics for those that like Ozzy (emphasis added) :)


Watching the time go and feeling belief grow
Rise above the obstacles
People beseech me but they'll never teach me
Things that I already know (I know)
--> Dreams that have shattered may not have mattered
Take another point of view
Doubts will arise though like chasing a rainbow
I can tell a thing or two (that's true)
--> You've got to believe in yourself
or no one Will believe in you
Imagination like a bird on the wing
Flying, free for you to use (okay baby)
I can't believe they stop and stare
And point their fingers doubting me
Their disbelief suppresses them
--> But they're not blind it's just that they won't see
I'm a believer, I ain't no deceiver
Mountains move before my eyes
--> Destiny planned out I don't need no handout
Speculation of the wise


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/14069 - Release Date: 03/06/17

[AFMUG] IL/MO Tornadoes, Take 2

[Jordan Gregory]

Bevier, MO confirmed tornado, long line headed east...

Keep your heads up everyone, looks like we are in for a long night again.

Thank You,

Jordan Gregory
Founder / CEO
Hive Wireless, LLC

Re: [AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it

[Craig House]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-eZCbiX3ck

- Original Message -
From: "Sterling Jacobson" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 4:53:57 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it

A little Monday fun.

In 2003 I quit being a 9-5 software engineer and started a WISP.

It was the downturn of the tech bubble in the early 2000's and I was sick of it.

I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

It was a crazy ride and way outside of my expertise and comfort zone.

The lyrics to Ozzy's Believer were a part of the songs that got me through it 
all.

I think I played this song every time I started up the mountain to fix another 
POS radio problem, lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYP_HImgu4

Lyrics for those that like Ozzy (emphasis added) :)


Watching the time go and feeling belief grow
Rise above the obstacles
People beseech me but they'll never teach me
Things that I already know (I know)
--> Dreams that have shattered may not have mattered
Take another point of view
Doubts will arise though like chasing a rainbow
I can tell a thing or two (that's true)
--> You've got to believe in yourself
or no one Will believe in you
Imagination like a bird on the wing
Flying, free for you to use (okay baby)
I can't believe they stop and stare
And point their fingers doubting me
Their disbelief suppresses them
--> But they're not blind it's just that they won't see
I'm a believer, I ain't no deceiver
Mountains move before my eyes
--> Destiny planned out I don't need no handout
Speculation of the wise

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Jaime Solorza]

Back in late 90s...He was a friend of Coleman ISD IT guyLived off road
to west of Coleman...Not 67... North of it...Tower was solid...I climbed it
several times...

On Mar 6, 2017 7:56 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Oh Jesus. What was his name?
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017, 5:58 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> we erected two 45s face to face attached by Unistrut and clamps buried 6
>> ft down (5x5x6 pad) and went up 75 ft.. with 2 3 ft dishes...one at top and
>> one at 45 ft.   solidgot idea from a radio guy from Coleman, Texas.
>>
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yep, just sharing experiences. I don't think you'd have a problem with
>> 50-60 feet of 65G with a 2' dish and maybe a couple sectors. 65G is fairly
>> stout. Or what about a light-duty monopole for your application?
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 5:36 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>
>> I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to use
>> 55G at the height and the wind loading I have in mind.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet.
>> For an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 11-24GHz.
>> Been there, done that. Customer installed it. Too much twisting in the wind.
>>
>> We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of free-standing
>> 65G and it has been fine.
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self
>> supporting application. The site may eventually need more wind loading.
>> There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block
>> like foundation.
>>
>> Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be used
>> in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP600 cacti

[Eric Muehleisen]

FYI. The MIBs for the PTP600 are different than the PTP500 slightly.

.1.3.6.1.4.1.17713.5.20.2.0 = PTP500
.1.3.6.1.4.1.17713.6.20.2.0 = PTP600

Notice the color coding in the text above. The octet is off by one. Replace
the 5 with a 6 and your good.

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Lewis Bergman]

Oh Jesus. What was his name?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017, 5:58 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> we erected two 45s face to face attached by Unistrut and clamps buried 6
> ft down (5x5x6 pad) and went up 75 ft.. with 2 3 ft dishes...one at top and
> one at 45 ft.   solidgot idea from a radio guy from Coleman, Texas.
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
> Yep, just sharing experiences. I don't think you'd have a problem with
> 50-60 feet of 65G with a 2' dish and maybe a couple sectors. 65G is fairly
> stout. Or what about a light-duty monopole for your application?
>
> On 3/6/2017 5:36 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to use
> 55G at the height and the wind loading I have in mind.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
> I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet. For
> an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 11-24GHz. Been
> there, done that. Customer installed it. Too much twisting in the wind.
>
> We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of free-standing
> 65G and it has been fine.
>
>
> On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self
> supporting application. The site may eventually need more wind loading.
> There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block
> like foundation.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be used
> in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?
>
> -Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[Adam Moffett]

Interestingthe VC limit had never been a practical limit the whole 
time I used Canopy.  I guess we're saying it could be now?




-- Original Message --
From: "George Skorup" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/6/2017 6:51:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450M

The VC limit is still 238 on 2.5ms framing. 5ms framing cuts that in 
half. The HP channel enabled on an SM also sucks up a VC, so keep that 
in mind.


On 3/6/2017 5:35 PM, Dan Petermann wrote:

Maximum amount of SMs.

The 450s have a limit of 200 (or so). Practically, you run out of 
bandwidth before reaching that limit.


With the 450M having a potential of 3-4 times the bandwidth capacity, 
the number of VCs available may become a limit. Right now we hit 60-70 
customers per AP before the downlink utilization is hitting max 
capacity. With three times the bandwidth available, 180-210 customers 
becomes doable. If 10-15% has our voip service, that cuts the 
available VCs down and limits the amount of customers that can be 
installed.


Will that happen? Probably not, and if so, thats a good problem to 
have.


I�m curious if the max SM count has been increased.

On Mar 6, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the 
maximum number of SMs it will register to?

At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.

Or are you asking about loading and performance?

-Original Message- From: Dan Petermann
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[Trey Scarborough]

I can say it works fine with 130+ that's what we have on up to so far.


On 3/6/2017 5:51 PM, George Skorup wrote:
The VC limit is still 238 on 2.5ms framing. 5ms framing cuts that in 
half. The HP channel enabled on an SM also sucks up a VC, so keep that 
in mind.


On 3/6/2017 5:35 PM, Dan Petermann wrote:

Maximum amount of SMs.

The 450s have a limit of 200 (or so). Practically, you run out of 
bandwidth before reaching that limit.


With the 450M having a potential of 3-4 times the bandwidth capacity, 
the number of VCs available may become a limit. Right now we hit 
60-70 customers per AP before the downlink utilization is hitting max 
capacity. With three times the bandwidth available, 180-210 customers 
becomes doable. If 10-15% has our voip service, that cuts the 
available VCs down and limits the amount of customers that can be 
installed.


Will that happen? Probably not, and if so, thats a good problem to have.

I�m curious if the max SM count has been increased.

On Mar 6, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the 
maximum number of SMs it will register to?

At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.

Or are you asking about loading and performance?

-Original Message- From: Dan Petermann
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Paul Stewart]

Oooh I like that way of thinking .. makes complete sense for sure… appreciate 
that!


> On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Craig Schmaderer  wrote:
> 
> This might only answer half your question but we don't install a customer 
> until the entire pon cabinet is done, main line all done and main cross 
> splice cases are done.  (About 250 houses usually is the size) So if its a 
> new install drop and that handhole doesn't have a splice in yet (because this 
> is the first of 4-6 drop handhole) so I would say it takes at least 4-6 man 
> hours to do this.  We usually will have a drop crew install the drop a day 
> before and splice everything up to the house. Than our wireless installers 
> install inside the house the next days. Drop guys get durty and usually its 
> hard to guess how long a drop will take so we have found it easier for the 
> inside installer to come later.  
> 
> 
> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
> Paul Stewart mailto:p...@paulstewart.org>>
> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 7:03:15 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
>  
> Thanks - that helps for sure…. I came up with 4 hours per dwelling on average 
> from start to finish to have the service on the curb and ready to pull in …
> 
> Basically, in a situation where have permits, locates, engineering and 
> everything in place - now guys go! :)  Then as orders come in, then 
> “installation” happens and I figured 4 hours there as well doing one off 
> installs
> 
> Really rough and as you know lots of factors but it doesn’t seem my estimate 
> is far off 
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Chuck McCown  > > wrote:
> > 
> > That's what happens when you don't actually read the post
> > 
> > We provide the duct if the developer provides the trench, so that part is 
> > pretty quick.  Handholes are installed later.  Probably a half hour per 
> > dwelling for empty duct and handholes.
> > 
> > Then we pull and splice.  Add another hour per dwelling.
> > 
> > Then we hang the ONT and install.  Probably 3 hours per dwelling.  But that 
> > is doing them in volume with a crew of 4-6 guys.
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:21 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> > 
> > 80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> > 
> >> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 80%
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> >> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
> >> To: Animal Farm
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> >> 
> >> I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. 
> >> it’s an open ended question I realize…
> >> 
> >> For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
> >> primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to 
> >> trench the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a 
> >> customer premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man 
> >> hours involved with going down a street and having everything ready for 
> >> service leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Paul
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Jon Langeler]

Google hosted has been problem free for us. What's your reasoning?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> 
> I'm out if it moves to Yahoo or Google services. The same reason I don't use 
> their email, hosting or phone services.
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
>> On 3/6/2017 3:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
>> supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for almost 15 
>> years without incident.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> List hosting:
>>> 
>>> https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
>>> about own domain name.
>>> 
>>> http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own 
>>> domain).
>>> 
>>> http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> More listed here:
>>> 
>>> https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
 Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that 
 came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big 
 boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their 
 very tight ship ensures that things are deliverable without drama.
 
  
 
 However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal 
 with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s 
 not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J 
  
 
  
 
 Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
 portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a 
 fair amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine 
 properly with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to 
 consider that they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman 
 configuration, etc.
 
  
 
 I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. 
 now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and 
 downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.
 
  
 
 We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of 
 course are nice. 
 
  
 
 But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.
 
  
 
 Paul
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
 
  
 
 Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?
 
 
  
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
  
 
 On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
 
 Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others 
 on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can 
 spin up a VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have 
 been buying Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are 
 set.  We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of 
 redundant VMs.  
 
  
 
 Just throwing that out there.  
 
  
 
  
 
 Justin Wilson
 
 j...@mtin.net
 
  
 
 ---
 http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
 
 xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
 
 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
 
 Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
 
  
 
 On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
  
 
 No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)
 
  
 
 From: Jeremy
 
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
 
 To: af@afmug.com
 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
 
  
 
 This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
 expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, 
 I don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems 
 like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant 
 list.  Now that the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe 
 space' free from politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need 
 that justifies that expense. 
 
  
 
 On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
 
 3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave 
 me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Craig Schmaderer]

This might only answer half your question but we don't install a customer until 
the entire pon cabinet is done, main line all done and main cross splice cases 
are done.  (About 250 houses usually is the size) So if its a new install drop 
and that handhole doesn't have a splice in yet (because this is the first of 
4-6 drop handhole) so I would say it takes at least 4-6 man hours to do this.  
We usually will have a drop crew install the drop a day before and splice 
everything up to the house. Than our wireless installers install inside the 
house the next days. Drop guys get durty and usually its hard to guess how long 
a drop will take so we have found it easier for the inside installer to come 
later.



From: Af  on behalf of Paul Stewart 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 7:03:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

Thanks - that helps for sure…. I came up with 4 hours per dwelling on average 
from start to finish to have the service on the curb and ready to pull in …

Basically, in a situation where have permits, locates, engineering and 
everything in place - now guys go! :)  Then as orders come in, then 
“installation” happens and I figured 4 hours there as well doing one off 
installs

Really rough and as you know lots of factors but it doesn’t seem my estimate is 
far off

Thanks,
Paul



> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> That's what happens when you don't actually read the post
>
> We provide the duct if the developer provides the trench, so that part is 
> pretty quick.  Handholes are installed later.  Probably a half hour per 
> dwelling for empty duct and handholes.
>
> Then we pull and splice.  Add another hour per dwelling.
>
> Then we hang the ONT and install.  Probably 3 hours per dwelling.  But that 
> is doing them in volume with a crew of 4-6 guys.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:21 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
>
> 80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> 80%
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
>> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
>>
>> I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s 
>> an open ended question I realize…
>>
>> For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
>> primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to trench 
>> the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a customer 
>> premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man hours 
>> involved with going down a street and having everything ready for service 
>> leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Paul Stewart]

Thanks - that helps for sure…. I came up with 4 hours per dwelling on average 
from start to finish to have the service on the curb and ready to pull in …

Basically, in a situation where have permits, locates, engineering and 
everything in place - now guys go! :)  Then as orders come in, then 
“installation” happens and I figured 4 hours there as well doing one off 
installs

Really rough and as you know lots of factors but it doesn’t seem my estimate is 
far off 

Thanks,
Paul



> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> That's what happens when you don't actually read the post
> 
> We provide the duct if the developer provides the trench, so that part is 
> pretty quick.  Handholes are installed later.  Probably a half hour per 
> dwelling for empty duct and handholes.
> 
> Then we pull and splice.  Add another hour per dwelling.
> 
> Then we hang the ONT and install.  Probably 3 hours per dwelling.  But that 
> is doing them in volume with a crew of 4-6 guys.
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:21 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> 
> 80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> 80%
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
>> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
>> 
>> I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s 
>> an open ended question I realize…
>> 
>> For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
>> primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to trench 
>> the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a customer 
>> premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man hours 
>> involved with going down a street and having everything ready for service 
>> leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Paul Stewart]

haha… yeah fair enough ;)  

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> It can be different when you're the one paying for it :)
> 
> On Mar 6, 2017 5:13 PM, "Paul Stewart"  > wrote:
> Interesting …. do they work ok?
> 
> I came from Calix and Adtran world for GPON/ONT stuff … considerably more 
> than that.  I did look at some DWDM stuff from China and it was total junk in 
> my opinion - some people like it .. not my thing.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Chuck Hogg > > wrote:
>> 
>> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power 
>> Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the split.  
>> Check Alibaba.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in another 
>> OLT if needed.
>> 
>> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1. 
>>> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>>> 
>>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" >> > wrote:
>>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause 
>>> some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
>>> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much 
>>> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards 
>>> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But 
>>> again, lots of power is required.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple 
>>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All 
>>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 
>>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could 
>>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Carlos Alcantar
>>> 
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>> 
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>> 
>>>  
>>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
>>> giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Carlos Alcantar
>>> 
>>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>> 
>>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>> 
>>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314  / car...@race.com 
>>>  / http://www.race.com 
>>>  
>>> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
>>> George Skorup mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
>>> watching Netflix.
>>> 
>>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
>>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
>>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The 
>>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just 
>>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. 
>>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god, 
>>> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>>> 
>>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of 
>>> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want 
>>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll 
>>> build it.
>>> 
>>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alphion does, yes.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown" >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>>> 
>>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.  
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04, 
>>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com  ; memb...@wispa.org 
>>>  Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>> 
>>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time 
>>> around. I remember Chuck Hogg ment

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Jason McKemie]

You're buying Alphion from Alibaba?

On Monday, March 6, 2017, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power
> Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the
> split.  Check Alibaba.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup  > wrote:
>
>> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in
>> another OLT if needed.
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
>> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" > > wrote:
>>
>>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the
>>> future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
>>> cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can
>>> still supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that
>>> much on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially
>>> backwards compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like
>>> mine. But again, lots of power is required.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>>> ] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>>> McCown
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
>>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
>>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
>>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
>>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this
>>> year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>>
>>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>>
>>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%28415%29%20376-3314> / car...@race.com
>>>  / http://www.race.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From:* Af >> > on behalf of
>>> George Skorup >> >
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
>>> and watching Netflix.
>>>
>>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
>>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
>>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
>>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
>>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
>>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
>>> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>>>
>>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood
>>> of rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
>>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
>>> build it.
>>>
>>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> Alphion does, yes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown" >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>>>
>>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
>>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com
>>>  ; memb...@wispa.org
>>>  Subject: [AFMUG]
>>> Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this
>>> time around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed
>>> the AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for
>>> small deployments?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Josh Reynolds]

It can be different when you're the one paying for it :)

On Mar 6, 2017 5:13 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> Interesting …. do they work ok?
>
> I came from Calix and Adtran world for GPON/ONT stuff … considerably more
> than that.  I did look at some DWDM stuff from China and it was total junk
> in my opinion - some people like it .. not my thing.
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power
> Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the
> split.  Check Alibaba.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in
>> another OLT if needed.
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
>> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the
>>> future.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>>
>>>
>>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
>>> cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>>
>>>
>>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can
>>> still supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that
>>> much on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially
>>> backwards compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like
>>> mine. But again, lots of power is required.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
>>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
>>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
>>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
>>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this
>>> year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>>
>>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>>
>>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%28415%29%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
>>> http://www.race.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
>>> george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
>>> and watching Netflix.
>>>
>>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
>>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
>>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
>>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
>>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
>>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
>>> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>>>
>>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood
>>> of rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
>>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
>>> build it.
>>>
>>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> Alphion does, yes.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
>>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>>>
>>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
>>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
>>> Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this
>>> time around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed
>>> the AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for
>>> small deployments?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Jaime Solorza]

we erected two 45s face to face attached by Unistrut and clamps buried 6 ft
down (5x5x6 pad) and went up 75 ft.. with 2 3 ft dishes...one at top and
one at 45 ft.   solidgot idea from a radio guy from Coleman, Texas.


Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Yep, just sharing experiences. I don't think you'd have a problem with
> 50-60 feet of 65G with a 2' dish and maybe a couple sectors. 65G is fairly
> stout. Or what about a light-duty monopole for your application?
>
> On 3/6/2017 5:36 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to use
> 55G at the height and the wind loading I have in mind.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet.
>> For an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 11-24GHz.
>> Been there, done that. Customer installed it. Too much twisting in the wind.
>>
>> We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of free-standing
>> 65G and it has been fine.
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self
>>> supporting application. The site may eventually need more wind loading.
>>> There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block
>>> like foundation.
>>>
>>> Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be
>>> used in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?
>>>
>>> -Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[George Skorup]

The VC limit is still 238 on 2.5ms framing. 5ms framing cuts that in 
half. The HP channel enabled on an SM also sucks up a VC, so keep that 
in mind.


On 3/6/2017 5:35 PM, Dan Petermann wrote:

Maximum amount of SMs.

The 450s have a limit of 200 (or so). Practically, you run out of bandwidth 
before reaching that limit.

With the 450M having a potential of 3-4 times the bandwidth capacity, the 
number of VCs available may become a limit. Right now we hit 60-70 customers 
per AP before the downlink utilization is hitting max capacity. With three 
times the bandwidth available, 180-210 customers becomes doable. If 10-15% has 
our voip service, that cuts the available VCs down and limits the amount of 
customers that can be installed.

Will that happen? Probably not, and if so, thats a good problem to have.

I�m curious if the max SM count has been increased.

On Mar 6, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the maximum number 
of SMs it will register to?
At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.

Or are you asking about loading and performance?

-Original Message- From: Dan Petermann
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[George Skorup]

Yep, just sharing experiences. I don't think you'd have a problem with 
50-60 feet of 65G with a 2' dish and maybe a couple sectors. 65G is 
fairly stout. Or what about a light-duty monopole for your application?


On 3/6/2017 5:36 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to 
use 55G at the height and the wind loading I have in mind.



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50
feet. For an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially
not 11-24GHz. Been there, done that. Customer installed it. Too
much twisting in the wind.

We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of
free-standing 65G and it has been fine.


On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft
self supporting application. The site may eventually need more
wind loading. There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just
a single concrete block like foundation.

Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that
can be used in a similar application to the 65G self
supporting kits?

-Eric

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Chuck McCown]

I have used 65Gs at that height.  Free standing.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to use 55G at 
the height and the wind loading I have in mind.  


On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet. For an 
omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 11-24GHz. Been there, 
done that. Customer installed it. Too much twisting in the wind.

  We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of free-standing 65G 
and it has been fine. 


  On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self supporting 
application. The site may eventually need more wind loading. There is no room 
for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block like foundation.

Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be used 
in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?

-Eric

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Chuck McCown]

That's what happens when you don't actually read the post

We provide the duct if the developer provides the trench, so that part is 
pretty quick.  Handholes are installed later.  Probably a half hour per 
dwelling for empty duct and handholes.


Then we pull and splice.  Add another hour per dwelling.

Then we hang the ONT and install.  Probably 3 hours per dwelling.  But that 
is doing them in volume with a crew of 4-6 guys.



-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …

Thanks,
Paul


On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

80%

-Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s 
an open ended question I realize…


For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to 
trench the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a 
customer premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man 
hours involved with going down a street and having everything ready for 
service leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.


Cheers,
Paul

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Eric Kuhnke]

I didn't say 55G, I wrote 65G...  Would not even dream of trying to use 55G
at the height and the wind loading I have in mind.


On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet. For
> an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 11-24GHz. Been
> there, done that. Customer installed it. Too much twisting in the wind.
>
> We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of free-standing
> 65G and it has been fine.
>
>
> On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
>> I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self
>> supporting application. The site may eventually need more wind loading.
>> There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block
>> like foundation.
>>
>> Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be used
>> in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[Dan Petermann]

Maximum amount of SMs. 

The 450s have a limit of 200 (or so). Practically, you run out of bandwidth 
before reaching that limit. 

With the 450M having a potential of 3-4 times the bandwidth capacity, the 
number of VCs available may become a limit. Right now we hit 60-70 customers 
per AP before the downlink utilization is hitting max capacity. With three 
times the bandwidth available, 180-210 customers becomes doable. If 10-15% has 
our voip service, that cuts the available VCs down and limits the amount of 
customers that can be installed. 

Will that happen? Probably not, and if so, thats a good problem to have. 

I’m curious if the max SM count has been increased.

On Mar 6, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the maximum 
> number of SMs it will register to?
> At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.
> 
> Or are you asking about loading and performance?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Dan Petermann
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] 450M
> 
> How many SMs can a 450M handle?
> 
> I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual 

Re: [AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[George Skorup]

I would highly recommend *against* using 55G free-standing at 50 feet. 
For an omni and a panel it's fine. Not a 2' dish, especially not 
11-24GHz. Been there, done that. Customer installed it. Too much 
twisting in the wind.


We have a customer with 2x 2' dishes with radomes on 80' of 
free-standing 65G and it has been fine.


On 3/6/2017 3:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self 
supporting application. The site may eventually need more wind 
loading. There is no room for guy wires or anchors, just a single 
concrete block like foundation.


Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be 
used in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?


-Eric

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Paul Stewart]

80% of what? :)  I’m trying to calculate man hours …

Thanks,
Paul

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> 80%
> 
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question
> 
> I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s 
> an open ended question I realize…
> 
> For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
> primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to trench 
> the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a customer 
> premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man hours 
> involved with going down a street and having everything ready for service 
> leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.
> 
> Cheers,
> Paul
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Travis Johnson]

I'm out if it moves to Yahoo or Google services. The same reason I don't 
use their email, hosting or phone services.


Travis


On 3/6/2017 3:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for 
almost 15 years without incident.



bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  
Not sure about own domain name.


http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your 
own domain).


http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain 
name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with
things that came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server
business and let the big boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a
sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship ensures that
things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and
can deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get
blacklisted, then it’s not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then
it most definitely IS a thing J

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple. 
The email portion is the only part that got complicated.  The

Mailman instance has a fair amount of customization on its
current instance to make it intertwine properly with AWS, so if
someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman
configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact
that …. now, it just runs and runs. I wouldn’t take a Cambium
solution and downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price
disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the
AWS of course are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a
lot of others on this list, can help.  I have space in a
tierIV data center.  We can spin up a VM or do a dedicated
box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying Dell
R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are
set.  We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a
couple of redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.

Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB
page... ;-)

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate
the time and expense that everyone has put forward to
keep it going.  That being said, I don't think it is
worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems
like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts
to a redundant list. Now that the republicans on the list
are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from politics,
it is hard to see where there is still a need that
justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged)
business partners gave me 30 days to vacate the
server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he
was perfecting his application of ASW for other
things at the time so it was perhaps a bit
experimental at the time. I have always really
appreciated what he did for us.

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if some

[AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Paul Stewart]

I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s an 
open ended question I realize…

For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to trench the 
fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a customer premise 
when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man hours involved with 
going down a street and having everything ready for service leaving out the 
CPE/drop side of things.

Cheers,
Paul

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[Chuck McCown]

I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the maximum 
number of SMs it will register to?

At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.

Or are you asking about loading and performance?

-Original Message- 
From: Dan Petermann

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

[Chuck McCown]

80%

-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Build Time Question

I checked around and can’t come up with a number so asking the list …. it’s 
an open ended question I realize…


For every 1000 homes passed, assuming a medium density deployment (meaning 
primarily houses in subdivisions but limited MDU) - how much time to trench 
the fiber and have connectivity ready to then run the drop to a customer 
premise when they order service?  I’m trying to calculate the man hours 
involved with going down a street and having everything ready for service 
leaving out the CPE/drop side of things.


Cheers,
Paul

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

I have a dialog running with one of them right now and will pose these 
questions.

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Works for me – the Mailman list services.  I think if someone who is willing to 
ultimately provide support for it does their due diligence on a specific host, 
you can try it.  We had looked at a couple of these when Chuck and I were first 
considering solutions and the support was negligible on the ones we looked at.  
Our use of AWS outside of the AFMUG list was minimal and short lived.

 

The $ 64K questions on switching, for me, would be… 

 

  a.. Do they ever get blacklisted and what do they do about it? 
  b.. Do they offer support when someone says the “list isn’t working, I can’t 
get signed up, etc. etc.” ? and who interacts with them to bring about 
resolution? 
  c.. Do they deal with “firewalls” like Baracuda which are sometimes quick to 
mark things as SPAM?
 

We also had looked at Yahoo and Google groups when we were bouncing ideas 
around and I signed up for both of them.  There were specific limitations on 
each but I don’t recall what they were.  It was 2.5 years ago.  We certainly 
weren’t vying to spend money on a solution at that time.

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

 

The list as it has been running has been fine, but I had no idea it was costing 
so much. If Paul had other things he was using AWS for, and this was some sort 
of "bonus", then NBD. But it sounds like AWS was only being used for this list? 
If this is the case, it seems like too much solution for a relatively simple 
problem.

 

bp On 3/6/2017 2:48 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Some of us will be at AnimalFarm.  We will kick it around there.  Seems to me 
like zero headache solution for Paul and the rest of us.  

   

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:47 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

   

  And there is also this list of (at least) a couple dozen different options. 
Some roll your own; some hosted.

   

bp On 3/6/2017 2:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for almost 15 
years without incident.

 

bp On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List 
Account) wrote:

  List hosting:

   

  https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not 
sure about own domain name. 

   

  http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own 
domain).

   

  http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain 
name.

   

   

  More listed here:

   

  https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services

   

   

   

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things 
that came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big 
boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very 
tight ship ensures that things are deliverable without drama.

 

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can 
deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s 
not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   

 

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The 
email portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has 
a fair amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine 
properly with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to 
consider that they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman 
configuration, etc.

 

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that 
…. now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and 
downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.

 

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of 
course are nice.  

 

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

 

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  Many folks are leaving the cloud d

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Paul Stewart]

Interesting …. do they work ok?

I came from Calix and Adtran world for GPON/ONT stuff … considerably more than 
that.  I did look at some DWDM stuff from China and it was total junk in my 
opinion - some people like it .. not my thing.


> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
> 
> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power 
> Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the split.  
> Check Alibaba.
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck
> 
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup  > wrote:
> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in another 
> OLT if needed.
> 
> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1. 
>> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>> 
>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" > > wrote:
>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>> 
>>  
>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>> 
>>  
>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>> 
>>  
>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause 
>> some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>> 
>>  
>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
>> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much 
>> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards 
>> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But 
>> again, lots of power is required.
>> 
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>> 
>>  
>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple wavelengths 
>> all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All the splitters 
>> etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps symmetrical 
>> all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G symmetrical 
>> to everyone and probably not run out of headroom. 
>> 
>>  
>> From: Carlos Alcantar
>> 
>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>> 
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>> 
>>  
>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
>> giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> Carlos Alcantar
>> 
>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>> 
>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>> 
>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314  / car...@race.com 
>>  / http://www.race.com 
>>  
>> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
>> George Skorup mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>> 
>>  
>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
>> watching Netflix.
>> 
>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The 
>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just 
>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. 
>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets 
>> fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>> 
>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of 
>> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want 
>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll 
>> build it.
>> 
>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>> 
>> Alphion does, yes.
>> 
>>  
>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown" > > wrote:
>> 
>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>> 
>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.  
>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04, 
>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com  ; memb...@wispa.org 
>>  Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>> 
>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time 
>> around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the 
>> AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small  
>>  deployments?
>> 
>>  
>>  
> 
> 

[AFMUG] 450M

[Dan Petermann]

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can’t seem to find the answer in the manual

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Paul McCall]

Works for me – the Mailman list services.  I think if someone who is willing to 
ultimately provide support for it does their due diligence on a specific host, 
you can try it.  We had looked at a couple of these when Chuck and I were first 
considering solutions and the support was negligible on the ones we looked at.  
Our use of AWS outside of the AFMUG list was minimal and short lived.

The $ 64K questions on switching, for me, would be…


  *   Do they ever get blacklisted and what do they do about it?
  *   Do they offer support when someone says the “list isn’t working, I can’t 
get signed up, etc. etc.” ? and who interacts with them to bring about 
resolution?
  *   Do they deal with “firewalls” like Baracuda which are sometimes quick to 
mark things as SPAM?

We also had looked at Yahoo and Google groups when we were bouncing ideas 
around and I signed up for both of them.  There were specific limitations on 
each but I don’t recall what they were.  It was 2.5 years ago.  We certainly 
weren’t vying to spend money on a solution at that time.

Paul


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations


The list as it has been running has been fine, but I had no idea it was costing 
so much. If Paul had other things he was using AWS for, and this was some sort 
of "bonus", then NBD. But it sounds like AWS was only being used for this list? 
If this is the case, it seems like too much solution for a relatively simple 
problem.



bp




On 3/6/2017 2:48 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Some of us will be at AnimalFarm.  We will kick it around there.  Seems to me 
like zero headache solution for Paul and the rest of us.

From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations


And there is also this list of (at least) a couple dozen different options. 
Some roll your own; some hosted.



bp




On 3/6/2017 2:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for almost 15 
years without incident.



bp




On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name.

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.


More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that came 
up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys deal 
with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship 
ensures that things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal with 
the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing ☺

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. now, 
it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade it to 
UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of course 
are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson 
mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:
Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Dis

[AFMUG] OT Songs that get us through it

[Sterling Jacobson]

A little Monday fun.

In 2003 I quit being a 9-5 software engineer and started a WISP.

It was the downturn of the tech bubble in the early 2000's and I was sick of it.

I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

It was a crazy ride and way outside of my expertise and comfort zone.

The lyrics to Ozzy's Believer were a part of the songs that got me through it 
all.

I think I played this song every time I started up the mountain to fix another 
POS radio problem, lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYP_HImgu4

Lyrics for those that like Ozzy (emphasis added) :)


Watching the time go and feeling belief grow
Rise above the obstacles
People beseech me but they'll never teach me
Things that I already know (I know)
--> Dreams that have shattered may not have mattered
Take another point of view
Doubts will arise though like chasing a rainbow
I can tell a thing or two (that's true)
--> You've got to believe in yourself
or no one Will believe in you
Imagination like a bird on the wing
Flying, free for you to use (okay baby)
I can't believe they stop and stare
And point their fingers doubting me
Their disbelief suppresses them
--> But they're not blind it's just that they won't see
I'm a believer, I ain't no deceiver
Mountains move before my eyes
--> Destiny planned out I don't need no handout
Speculation of the wise

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Bill Prince]

The list as it has been running has been fine, but I had no idea it was 
costing so much. If Paul had other things he was using AWS for, and this 
was some sort of "bonus", then NBD. But it sounds like AWS was only 
being used for this list? If this is the case, it seems like too much 
solution for a relatively simple problem.



bp


On 3/6/2017 2:48 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Some of us will be at AnimalFarm.  We will kick it around there.  
Seems to me like zero headache solution for Paul and the rest of us.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 3:47 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And there is also this list of (at least) a couple dozen different 
options. Some roll your own; some hosted.


bp


On 3/6/2017 2:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for 
almost 15 years without incident.


bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

List hosting:
https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/ Looks like  $3 per month.  Not 
sure about own domain name.
http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your 
own domain).
http://www.mailmanhost.com/ $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain 
name.

More listed here:
https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with
things that came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server
business and let the big boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a
sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship ensures that
things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience
and can deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get
blacklisted, then it’s not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well….
then it most definitely IS a thing J

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple. 
The email portion is the only part that got complicated.  The

Mailman instance has a fair amount of customization on its
current instance to make it intertwine properly with AWS, so if
someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman
configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact
that …. now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium
solution and downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price
disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it. Contributions towards the
AWS of course are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson 
wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a
lot of others on this list, can help.  I have space in a
tierIV data center. We can spin up a VM or do a dedicated
box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying Dell
R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are
set.  We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a
couple of redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.

Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown
 wrote:

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes
FB page... ;-)

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate
the time and expense that everyone has put forward to
keep it going.  That being said, I don't think it is
worth that amount at all whatsoever. That just seems
like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts
to a redundant list.  Now that the republicans on the
list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need
that justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown
 wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged)
business par

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

Some of us will be at AnimalFarm.  We will kick it around there.  Seems to me 
like zero headache solution for Paul and the rest of us.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And there is also this list of (at least) a couple dozen different options. 
Some roll your own; some hosted.



bp


On 3/6/2017 2:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for almost 15 
years without incident.



bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name. 

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own 
domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services




On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that 
came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys 
deal with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight 
ship ensures that things are deliverable without drama.



  However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can 
deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s 
not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   



  Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.



  I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. 
now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade 
it to UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.



  We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of 
course are nice.  



  But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.



  Paul









  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?





  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of 
others on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can 
spin up a VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been 
buying Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We 
also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  



Just throwing that out there.  





Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net



---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric



  On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I 
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that 
the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from 
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that 
expense.  



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business 
partners gave me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  
I think he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time 
so it was perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really 
appreciated what he did for us.  



I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to 
host it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept 
up to date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  



A am OK with 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Bill Prince]

And there is also this list of (at least) a couple dozen different 
options. Some roll your own; some hosted.



bp


On 3/6/2017 2:43 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for 
almost 15 years without incident.



bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  
Not sure about own domain name.


http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your 
own domain).


http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain 
name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with
things that came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server
business and let the big boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a
sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship ensures that
things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and
can deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get
blacklisted, then it’s not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then
it most definitely IS a thing J

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple. 
The email portion is the only part that got complicated.  The

Mailman instance has a fair amount of customization on its
current instance to make it intertwine properly with AWS, so if
someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman
configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact
that …. now, it just runs and runs. I wouldn’t take a Cambium
solution and downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price
disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the
AWS of course are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a
lot of others on this list, can help.  I have space in a
tierIV data center.  We can spin up a VM or do a dedicated
box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying Dell
R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are
set.  We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a
couple of redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.

Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB
page... ;-)

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate
the time and expense that everyone has put forward to
keep it going.  That being said, I don't think it is
worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems
like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts
to a redundant list. Now that the republicans on the list
are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from politics,
it is hard to see where there is still a need that
justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged)
business partners gave me 30 days to vacate the
server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he
was perfecting his application of ASW for other
things at the time so it was perhaps a bit
experimental at the time. I have always really
appreciated what he did for us.

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone
   

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

That mailmanhost looks pretty good.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for almost 15 
years without incident.



bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  List hosting:

  https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name. 

  http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own 
domain).

  http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.



  More listed here:

  https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services




  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that 
came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys 
deal with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight 
ship ensures that things are deliverable without drama.



However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal 
with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   



Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.



I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. 
now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade 
it to UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.



We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of 
course are nice.  



But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.



Paul









From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?





Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others 
on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up 
a VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  



  Just throwing that out there.  





  Justin Wilson

  j...@mtin.net



  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric



On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)



From: Jeremy 

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I 
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that 
the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from 
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that 
expense.  



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners 
gave me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think 
he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  



  I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to 
host it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept 
up to date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  



  A am OK with anything.  



  From: Josh Baird 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Bill Prince]

There is also Yahoo Groups and Google Groups, which are both free (ad 
supported). Our neighborhood group has been using Yahoo Groups for 
almost 15 years without incident.



bp


On 3/6/2017 1:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not 
sure about own domain name.


http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own 
domain).


http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain 
name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with
things that came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server
business and let the big boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a
sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship ensures that
things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and
can deal with the receiving mail server issues AND not get
blacklisted, then it’s not “a thing”. If they don’t, well…. then
it most definitely IS a thing J

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The
email portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman
instance has a fair amount of customization on its current
instance to make it intertwine properly with AWS, so if someone
wants to take that one, they also need to consider that they will
mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact
that …. now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium
solution and downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price
disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the
AWS of course are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot
of others on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV
data center.  We can spin up a VM or do a dedicated box if
someone wants to send one.  We have been buying Dell R710s on
eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of
redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.

Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB
page... ;-)

*From:*Jeremy

*Sent:*Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate
the time and expense that everyone has put forward to keep
it going.  That being said, I don't think it is worth that
amount at all whatsoever. That just seems like a crazy
amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant
list.  Now that the republicans on the list are requesting
it as a 'safe space' free from politics, it is hard to see
where there is still a need that justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged)
business partners gave me 30 days to vacate the server
farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he was
perfecting his application of ASW for other things at
the time so it was perhaps a bit experimental at the
time. I have always really appreciated what he did for
us.

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone
else wanted to host it.  There is the list serv and a
web site (that has not really been kept up to date). 
I have offered to cover the cost of the

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Keefe John]

How about outsourced outbound sales calls?


On 3/6/2017 10:13 AM, Wireless Administrator wrote:


Over time I�ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical 
support.


Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I�m 
talking about new internet access account  signup process not marketing.


Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

The answer is yes.  I wonder if they can import old archives...

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:34 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Looks pretty sweet and cheap. 
Wonder if it will work with the archives...

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name. 

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services




On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that came 
up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys deal 
with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship 
ensures that things are deliverable without drama.



  However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal 
with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   



  Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.



  I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. now, 
it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade it to 
UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.



  We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of course 
are nice.  



  But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.



  Paul









  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  



Just throwing that out there.  





Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net



---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric



  On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I 
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that 
the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from 
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that 
expense.  



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners 
gave me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think 
he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  



I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host 
it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  



A am OK with anything.  



From: Josh Baird 

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  If we ca

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

Looks pretty sweet and cheap. 
Wonder if it will work with the archives...

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name. 

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services




On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that came 
up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys deal 
with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship 
ensures that things are deliverable without drama.



  However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal 
with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   



  Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.



  I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. now, 
it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade it to 
UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.



  We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of course 
are nice.  



  But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.



  Paul









  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  



Just throwing that out there.  





Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net



---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric



  On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I 
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that 
the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from 
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that 
expense.  



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners 
gave me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think 
he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  



I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host 
it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  



A am OK with anything.  



From: Josh Baird 

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

$4/month irrespective of the number of list members I wonder?  I suppose I 
should click the link and read up on it.  
This may be a decent alternative to any of us hosting it.  Thanks Forrest.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure 
about own domain name. 

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.



More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services




On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that came 
up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys deal 
with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship 
ensures that things are deliverable without drama.



  However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal 
with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J   



  Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.



  I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. now, 
it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade it to 
UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.



  We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of course 
are nice.  



  But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.



  Paul









  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  



Just throwing that out there.  





Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net



---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric



  On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



  This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and 
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I 
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that 
the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from 
politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that 
expense.  



  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners 
gave me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think 
he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  



I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host 
it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  



A am OK with anything.  



From: Josh Baird 

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations



$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're

[AFMUG] 30" to 36" face width guyed tower 20 ft sections

[Eric Kuhnke]

I'm looking at the Rohn 65G (24" face width) for a 50-60 ft self supporting
application. The site may eventually need more wind loading. There is no
room for guy wires or anchors, just a single concrete block like foundation.

Anyone have a suggestion for 36" face width tower pieces that can be used
in a similar application to the 65G self supporting kits?

-Eric

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

List hosting:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/   Looks like  $3 per month.  Not sure
about own domain name.

http://www.mailmanlists.net/pricing ...  Pro list, $4/month. (your own
domain).

http://www.mailmanhost.com/  $3/month.   Again, not sure about domain name.


More listed here:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that
> came up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big
> boys deal with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their
> very tight ship ensures that things are deliverable without drama.
>
>
>
> However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal
> with the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s
> not “a thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing J
>
>
>
>
> Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email
> portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a
> fair amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine
> properly with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to
> consider that they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman
> configuration, etc.
>
>
>
> I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that ….
> now, it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and
> downgrade it to UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.
>
>
>
> We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of
> course are nice.
>
>
>
> But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
>
>
> Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
> Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others
> on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin
> up a VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been
> buying Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.
> We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant
> VMs.
>
>
>
> Just throwing that out there.
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
>
> j...@mtin.net
>
>
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
>
> No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
>
>
> This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and
> expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I
> don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems
> like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant
> list.  Now that the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe
> space' free from politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need
> that justifies that expense.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> 3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave
> me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think
> he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it
> was perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really
> appreciated what he did for us.
>
>
>
> I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host
> it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept
> up to date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.
>
>
>
> A am OK with anything.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Baird
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
>
>
> $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly
> appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges),
> but I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific
> application.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> $ 970 in cont

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Justin Wilson]

I have seen folks hire an “old guy” that is retired or semi-retired to do 
sales.  It depends on the volume you are looking to do. The “old guy” approach 
has worked well for the 4 or so I know who do it. 


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Wireless Administrator  wrote:
> 
> Over time I’ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical support. 
>  
>  
> Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I’m talking about 
> new internet access account  signup process not marketing.  
>  
> Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Chuck Hogg]

I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and Power
Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the
split.  Check Alibaba.

Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in
> another OLT if needed.
>
> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>
> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:
>
>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>>
>>
>>
>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>
>>
>>
>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
>> cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>
>>
>>
>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still
>> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much
>> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards
>> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But
>> again, lots of power is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this
>> year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos Alcantar
>>
>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>
>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>
>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%28415%29%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
>> http://www.race.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
>> george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
>> and watching Netflix.
>>
>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
>> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>>
>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of
>> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
>> build it.
>>
>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Alphion does, yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>>
>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
>> Small-scale GPON
>>
>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time
>> around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the
>> AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small
>> deployments?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[George Skorup]

Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in 
another OLT if needed.


On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 
64x1. The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.


On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" > wrote:


AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in
cabinets.

Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the
future.

I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?

The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which
might cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.

AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I
can still supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want
to carry that much on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and
it’s essentially backwards compatible with GPON if your
neighborhood runs are short like mine. But again, lots of power is
required.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to
change.  All the splitters etc still work.  That will give
everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps symmetrical all at the same time. 
So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G symmetrical to everyone

and probably not run out of headroom.

*From:*Carlos Alcantar

*Sent:*Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released
this year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.

Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314  /
car...@race.com / http://www.race.com




*From:*Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on
behalf of George Skorup mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
*Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell
phones and watching Netflix.

The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for
the utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and
turn up another switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than
100Mbps every night. The network owner was convinced that everyone
had to have 1G FDX. They just don't realize how much electronics
and power is required for 1k ports. There's less than 100
customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets fix this
now! We'll see what happens.

Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a
neighborhood of rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it
works fine. They "want more speed" and if they're willing to put
up some cash for it, then we'll build it.

On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Alphion does, yes.

On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

What kind of costs are you talking?
Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
-Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent:
Saturday, March 04, 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com
 ; memb...@wispa.org
 Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead
of AE this time around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned
Alphion. Has anyone deployed the AOLT-4200? Looks like a
good solution. Or what else have you used for small
deployments?

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Paul McCall]

Yeah, that was kind of the thing Josh.  Someone to deal with things that came 
up.  Most of us got OUT of the mail server business and let the big boys deal 
with it.  For use, AWS was a sure thing on the fact that their very tight ship 
ensures that things are deliverable without drama.

However, If someone already has a bunch of Mailman experience and can deal with 
the receiving mail server issues AND not get blacklisted, then it’s not “a 
thing”.  If they don’t, well…. then it most definitely IS a thing ☺

Our original concept that we needed AWS for was quite simple.  The email 
portion is the only part that got complicated.  The Mailman instance has a fair 
amount of customization on its current instance to make it intertwine properly 
with AWS, so if someone wants to take that one, they also need to consider that 
they will mostly be starting from scratch on Mailman configuration, etc.

I have to say though, there is something to be said for the fact that …. now, 
it just runs and runs.   I wouldn’t take a Cambium solution and downgrade it to 
UBNT just because it is “price disruptive”.

We are glad to continue to admin it.  Contributions towards the AWS of course 
are nice.

But, its Chuck’s list and his decision.

Paul




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson 
mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:
Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.

Just throwing that out there.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)

From: Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and expense 
that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I don't think 
it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a crazy amount 
of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that the 
republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from politics, 
it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave me 30 
days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he was 
perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host it.  
There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.

A am OK with anything.

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly appreciate 
Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but I can't 
help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
Guys,

$ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are much 
appreciated.

I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 for 
that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is needed on 
the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  There is 
no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't paid for the 
plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and then cancel it 
etc..

The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34.   
So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Josh Reynolds]

Our OLTs were around $4k/EA, optics were like $200 or so.

ONTs were like $90.

Rough math, 32 ports in 4 OLTs, 512 CPEs, 32 GPON optics = $68,500 not
counting the splitters

On Mar 6, 2017 12:21 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> ONT Housing  $   30.00
> ONT  $ 215.00
> Unicam  $   15.00
> Cyber Power  $   85.00
> Cyber Power Install  $ 110.00
> House Sub Total * $ 455.00 *
>
> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
> OIM $845/32  $   26.41
> Splitter $900/32  $   31.00
> DLC Subtotal * $ 100.38 *
>
> Electronics/Sub Total Expense/house * $ 555.38 *
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 11:11 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
> If you are using Calix, then your port cost will be very high. We went
> Alphion. Our OLT and port costs were very low. This help us have less
> oversub on ports. The plan was to design for a 32x1 but deploy a 16x1, with
> the intent to to make it a 16x2 and overlay NG-PON2 in the future.
>
> On Mar 6, 2017 12:04 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> We have always done 32:1.  I think Cascade Networks may have tried the 64:1
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 11:01 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
> The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>
> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:
>
>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>>
>>
>>
>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>
>>
>>
>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
>> cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>
>>
>>
>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still
>> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much
>> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards
>> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But
>> again, lots of power is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this
>> year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos Alcantar
>>
>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>
>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>
>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <(415)%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
>> http://www.race.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
>> george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
>> and watching Netflix.
>>
>> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
>> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
>> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
>> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
>> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
>> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
>> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>>
>> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of
>> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
>> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
>> build it.
>>
>> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Alphion does, yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> What kind of costs are you talking?
>> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>>
>> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
>> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
>> Small-scale GPON
>>
>> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time
>> around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the
>> AOL

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Gino Villarini]

For very small scale I would recommend going GEPON, we have been using a Planet 
2 port OLT cost $2000~, ONUs are about $50

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:11 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

If you are using Calix, then your port cost will be very high. We went Alphion. 
Our OLT and port costs were very low. This help us have less oversub on ports. 
The plan was to design for a 32x1 but deploy a 16x1, with the intent to to make 
it a 16x2 and overlay NG-PON2 in the future.




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Mar 6, 2017 12:04 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
We have always done 32:1.  I think Cascade Networks may have tried the 64:1

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1. The 
company I just got off the ground did 16x1.

On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:
AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.

Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.

I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?

The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause some 
re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.

AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much on 
the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards 
compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But again, 
lots of power is required.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple wavelengths 
all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All the splitters 
etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps symmetrical all 
at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G symmetrical to 
everyone and probably not run out of headroom.

From: Carlos Alcantar
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON


to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.





Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / 
http://www.race.com


From: Af  on behalf of George Skorup 

Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
watching Netflix.

The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The network 
owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just don't realize 
how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. There's less than 100 
customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets fix this now! We'll see 
what happens.

Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of rich 
bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want more speed" 
and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll build it.
On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Alphion does, yes.

On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
What kind of costs are you talking?
Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
-Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 
8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time 
around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the 
AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small 
deployments?

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Josh Luthman]

Right but who's going to manage the box and fix all the list issues?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others
> on this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin
> up a VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been
> buying Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.
> We also have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant
> VMs.
>
> Just throwing that out there.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)
>
> *From:* Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and
> expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I
> don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems
> like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant
> list.  Now that the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe
> space' free from politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need
> that justifies that expense.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> 3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave
>> me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think
>> he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it
>> was perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really
>> appreciated what he did for us.
>>
>> I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host
>> it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept
>> up to date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.
>>
>> A am OK with anything.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly
>> appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges),
>> but I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific
>> application.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>>
 Guys,

 $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are
 much appreciated.

 I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $
 100 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which
 is needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support
 plan.  There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are
 haven't paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't
 buy it and then cancel it etc..

 The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $
 249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a
 little expensive but I am glad to continue it.

 Paul



 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
 Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

 And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

 Rory

 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

 Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband
 connection.

 -Original Message-
 From: Rory Conaway
 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

 I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important
 news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese
 guy who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on
 him.
 These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for
 installations.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six
 -ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

 

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Josh Luthman]

I've had both support and CSR for a long time.  They're good for call
centers but by no means come close to the quality of a good in house person
will be.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Wireless Administrator 
wrote:

> Over time I’ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical
> support.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I’m talking
> about new internet access account  signup process not marketing.
>
>
>
> Steve B.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Chuck McCown]

  ONT Housing  $   30.00  
  ONT  $ 215.00  
  Unicam  $   15.00  
  Cyber Power  $   85.00  
  Cyber Power Install  $ 110.00  
  House Sub Total  $ 455.00  
  
  OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97  
  OIM $845/32  $   26.41  
  Splitter $900/32  $   31.00  
  DLC Subtotal  $ 100.38  
  
  Electronics/Sub Total Expense/house  $ 555.38  


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

If you are using Calix, then your port cost will be very high. We went Alphion. 
Our OLT and port costs were very low. This help us have less oversub on ports. 
The plan was to design for a 32x1 but deploy a 16x1, with the intent to to make 
it a 16x2 and overlay NG-PON2 in the future.


On Mar 6, 2017 12:04 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  We have always done 32:1.  I think Cascade Networks may have tried the 64:1

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:01 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

  Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1. The 
company I just got off the ground did 16x1.

  On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.



Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.



I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?



The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause 
some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.



AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much on 
the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards 
compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But again, 
lots of power is required.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON



Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple 
wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All the 
splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps 
symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G 
symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.  



From: Carlos Alcantar 

Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON



to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.





Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member 

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com






From: Af  on behalf of George Skorup 

Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON 



I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
watching Netflix.

The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The network 
owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just don't realize 
how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. There's less than 100 
customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets fix this now! We'll see 
what happens.

Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of 
rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want more 
speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll build it.

On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

  Alphion does, yes.



  On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

What kind of costs are you talking?
Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.  
-Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 
04, 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] 
Small-scale GPON 

We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this 
time around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the 
AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small 
deployments?

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Josh Reynolds]

If you are using Calix, then your port cost will be very high. We went
Alphion. Our OLT and port costs were very low. This help us have less
oversub on ports. The plan was to design for a 32x1 but deploy a 16x1, with
the intent to to make it a 16x2 and overlay NG-PON2 in the future.

On Mar 6, 2017 12:04 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

We have always done 32:1.  I think Cascade Networks may have tried the 64:1

*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 11:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.

On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>
>
>
> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>
>
>
> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>
>
>
> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause
> some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>
>
>
> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still
> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much
> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards
> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But
> again, lots of power is required.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>
>
>
> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year
> giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> Carlos Alcantar
>
> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>
> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>
> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <(415)%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
> http://www.race.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
> george.sko...@cbcast.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
> and watching Netflix.
>
> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>
> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of
> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
> build it.
>
> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Alphion does, yes.
>
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> What kind of costs are you talking?
> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>
> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
> Small-scale GPON
>
> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time
> around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the
> AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small
> deployments?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Chuck McCown]

We have always done 32:1.  I think Cascade Networks may have tried the 64:1

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1. The 
company I just got off the ground did 16x1.

On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

  AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.



  Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.



  I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?



  The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause 
some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.



  AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much on 
the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards 
compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But again, 
lots of power is required.



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON



  Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple wavelengths 
all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All the splitters 
etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps symmetrical all 
at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G symmetrical to 
everyone and probably not run out of headroom.  



  From: Carlos Alcantar 

  Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON



  to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.





  Carlos Alcantar

  Race Communications / Race Team Member 

  1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

  Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com




--

  From: Af  on behalf of George Skorup 

  Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON 



  I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
watching Netflix.

  The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The network 
owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just don't realize 
how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. There's less than 100 
customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets fix this now! We'll see 
what happens.

  Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of 
rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want more 
speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll build it.

  On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Alphion does, yes.



On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  What kind of costs are you talking?
  Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

  Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.  
  -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04, 
2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale 
GPON 

  We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time 
around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the 
AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small 
deployments?

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Josh Reynolds]

Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was 64x1.
The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.

On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.
>
>
>
> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.
>
>
>
> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>
>
>
> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause
> some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>
>
>
> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still
> supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much
> on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially backwards
> compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But
> again, lots of power is required.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All
> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>
>
>
> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year
> giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> Carlos Alcantar
>
> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>
> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>
> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <(415)%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
> http://www.race.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Af  on behalf of George Skorup <
> george.sko...@cbcast.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>
>
>
> I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones
> and watching Netflix.
>
> The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the
> utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another
> switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The
> network owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just
> don't realize how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports.
> There's less than 100 customers so far, so please, for the love of god,
> lets fix this now! We'll see what happens.
>
> Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of
> rich bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want
> more speed" and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll
> build it.
>
> On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Alphion does, yes.
>
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> What kind of costs are you talking?
> Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?
>
> Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
> -Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04,
> 2017 8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG]
> Small-scale GPON
>
> We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time
> around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the
> AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small
> deployments?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Sterling Jacobson]

AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in cabinets.

Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the future.

I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?

The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might cause some 
re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.

AE doesn't have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can still 
supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry that much on 
the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it's essentially backwards 
compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like mine. But again, 
lots of power is required.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple wavelengths 
all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  All the splitters 
etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5 Mbps symmetrical all 
at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could sell 1G symmetrical to 
everyone and probably not run out of headroom.

From: Carlos Alcantar
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON


to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released this year 
giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.





Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / 
http://www.race.com


From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
George Skorup mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:44:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

I'm not really worried about POTS and RF. Everyone is using cell phones and 
watching Netflix.

The AE deployment is a total waste of equipment and resources for the 
utilization we're seeing. I have to go there next week and turn up another 
switch. The 1Gbps feed is averaging less than 100Mbps every night. The network 
owner was convinced that everyone had to have 1G FDX. They just don't realize 
how much electronics and power is required for 1k ports. There's less than 100 
customers so far, so please, for the love of god, lets fix this now! We'll see 
what happens.

Anyway.. this project we're looking to do on our own is a neighborhood of rich 
bitches. We already have PMP450 there and it works fine. They "want more speed" 
and if they're willing to put up some cash for it, then we'll build it.
On 3/4/2017 9:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Alphion does, yes.

On Mar 4, 2017 9:53 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
What kind of costs are you talking?
Does  it talk to ONTs?  ONTs with POTS ports?

Sterling is AE, I know his costs are pretty low.
-Original Message- From: George Skorup Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 
8:39 PM To: af@afmug.com ; 
memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
We're looking to do another "fiberhood" with GPON instead of AE this time 
around. I remember Chuck Hogg mentioned Alphion. Has anyone deployed the 
AOLT-4200? Looks like a good solution. Or what else have you used for small 
deployments?

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

I’ll be more than happy to buy the box.  Or help with the purchase VM hardware 
that you can use for other things along with the list.  

From: Justin Wilson 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.   

Just throwing that out there.  


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

  On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)

  From: Jeremy 
  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and expense 
that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I don't think 
it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a crazy amount 
of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that the 
republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from politics, 
it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that expense.  

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave 
me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he 
was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host it. 
 There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  

A am OK with anything.  

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Guys,

$ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are 
much appreciated.

I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 
100 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is 
needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  
There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't 
paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and 
then cancel it etc..

The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 
249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little 
expensive but I am glad to continue it.

Paul




-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband 
connection.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important 
news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy 
who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him.
These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 P

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Justin Wilson]

Many folks are leaving the cloud due to costs.  We, like a lot of others on 
this list, can help.  I have space in a tierIV data center.  We can spin up a 
VM or do a dedicated box if someone wants to send one.  We have been buying 
Dell R710s on eBay for $200 and $200 in new drives and you are set.  We also 
have some R900s on the way we could spin up a couple of redundant VMs.  

Just throwing that out there.  


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Mar 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)
>  
> From: Jeremy <>
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>  
> This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and expense 
> that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I don't 
> think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a 
> crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now 
> that the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free 
> from politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies 
> that expense. 
>  
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:
>> 3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave me 
>> 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he 
>> was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
>> perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated 
>> what he did for us. 
>>  
>> I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host it.  
>> There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
>> date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS. 
>>  
>> A am OK with anything. 
>>  
>> From: Josh Baird <>
>> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>  
>> $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
>> appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), 
>> but I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific 
>> application.
>>  
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman > <>> wrote:
>>> If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>  
>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall > wrote:
 Guys,
 
 $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are 
 much appreciated.
 
 I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 
 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is 
 needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support 
 plan.  There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are 
 haven't paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't 
 buy it and then cancel it etc..
 
 The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34. 
   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little 
 expensive but I am glad to continue it.
 
 Paul
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
 Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
 To: af@afmug.com <>
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
 
 And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.
 
 Rory
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
 To: af@afmug.com <>
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
 
 Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband 
 connection.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Rory Conaway
 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com <>
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
 
 I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important 
 news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the 
 Japanese guy who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection 
 fell on him.
 These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
 installations.
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html
  
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
 Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

No, we just transferred all the politics over to Mikes FB page... ;-)

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and expense 
that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I don't think 
it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems like a crazy amount 
of money for what basically amounts to a redundant list.  Now that the 
republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe space' free from politics, 
it is hard to see where there is still a need that justifies that expense.  

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave me 
30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he was 
perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  

  I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host it.  
There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  

  A am OK with anything.  

  From: Josh Baird 
  Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly 
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but 
I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Guys,

  $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are 
much appreciated.

  I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 
100 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is 
needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  
There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't 
paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and 
then cancel it etc..

  The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 
249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little 
expensive but I am glad to continue it.

  Paul




  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
  Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

  Rory

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband 
connection.

  -Original Message-
  From: Rory Conaway
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important 
news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy 
who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him.
  These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.

  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
  Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it 
must be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.

  Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're 
being heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.

  Chris Wright
  Network Administrator

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Sounds good!

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.


  > On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
  >
  > That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
  > I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
  > wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other 
fun stuff.
  > Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
  >
  > 

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Jeremy]

This list is a useful tool, and I definitely appreciate the time and
expense that everyone has put forward to keep it going.  That being said, I
don't think it is worth that amount at all whatsoever.  That just seems
like a crazy amount of money for what basically amounts to a redundant
list.  Now that the republicans on the list are requesting it as a 'safe
space' free from politics, it is hard to see where there is still a need
that justifies that expense.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> 3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave
> me 30 days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think
> he was perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it
> was perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really
> appreciated what he did for us.
>
> I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host
> it.  There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept
> up to date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.
>
> A am OK with anything.
>
> *From:* Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> $250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly
> appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges),
> but I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific
> application.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are
>>> much appreciated.
>>>
>>> I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $
>>> 100 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which
>>> is needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support
>>> plan.  There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are
>>> haven't paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't
>>> buy it and then cancel it etc..
>>>
>>> The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $
>>> 249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a
>>> little expensive but I am glad to continue it.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>>
>>> And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>>
>>> Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband
>>> connection.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Rory Conaway
>>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>>
>>> I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important
>>> news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese
>>> guy who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on
>>> him.
>>> These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for
>>> installations.
>>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six
>>> -ton-pile-porn-magazines.html
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
>>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>>
>>> Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it
>>> must be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.
>>>
>>> Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're
>>> being heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.
>>>
>>> Chris Wright
>>> Network Administrator
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
>>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>>
>>> Sounds good!
>>>
>>> Jon Langeler
>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
>>> >
>>> > That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
>>> > I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
>>> > wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other
>>> fun stuff.
>>> > Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>> > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
>>> > To: af@afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

3 years ago, when my (still current but estranged) business partners gave me 30 
days to vacate the server farm, Paul really saved the day.  I think he was 
perfecting his application of ASW for other things at the time so it was 
perhaps a bit experimental at the time.  I have always really appreciated what 
he did for us.  

I don’t think it would hurt his feelings if someone else wanted to host it.  
There is the list serv and a web site (that has not really been kept up to 
date).  I have offered to cover the cost of the AWS.  

A am OK with anything.  

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly appreciate 
Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges), but I can't 
help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific application.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Guys,

$ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are much 
appreciated.

I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 
for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is 
needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  
There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't 
paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and 
then cancel it etc..

The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34.  
 So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little 
expensive but I am glad to continue it.

Paul




-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband 
connection.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important 
news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy 
who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him.
These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it must 
be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.

Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're 
being heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sounds good!

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
>
> That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
> I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
> wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other fun 
stuff.
> Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
>
> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.
>
> Mathew Howard wrote:
>> Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a
>> few hours.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman
>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
>>critical service.
>>
>>
>>Josh Luthman
>>Office: 937-552-2340 
>>Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>1100 Wayne St
>>Suite 1337
>>Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall >> wrote:
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Josh Baird]

$250/mo to host a single mailing list is well.. insane.  I certainly
appreciate Paul hosting the site (and paying these crazy monthly charges),
but I can't help it to question if AWS makes sense for this specific
application.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are
>> much appreciated.
>>
>> I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $
>> 100 for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which
>> is needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support
>> plan.  There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are
>> haven't paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't
>> buy it and then cancel it etc..
>>
>> The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $
>> 249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a
>> little expensive but I am glad to continue it.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
>> Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.
>>
>> Rory
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband
>> connection.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rory Conaway
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important
>> news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese
>> guy who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on
>> him.
>> These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for
>> installations.
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six
>> -ton-pile-porn-magazines.html
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it
>> must be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.
>>
>> Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're
>> being heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.
>>
>> Chris Wright
>> Network Administrator
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>> Sounds good!
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
>> >
>> > That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
>> > I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
>> > wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other
>> fun stuff.
>> > Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>> > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>> >
>> > It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.
>> >
>> > Mathew Howard wrote:
>> >> Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a
>> >> few hours.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
>> >>critical service.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Josh Luthman
>> >>Office: 937-552-2340 
>> >>Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> >>1100 Wayne St
>> >>Suite 1337
>> >>Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall > >>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>We received $ 570 in donations so far.  Again, thank you.
>> >>
>> >>Its $ 150 a month (round numbers) plus the $ 99 support plan,
>> >>which I might drop and go to pay per incident but its low
>> >>priority support only for that.
>> >>
>> >>Paul
>> >>
>> >>*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> >>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
>> >>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 11:31 AM
>> >>*To:* af@afmug.com 
>> >>*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>> >>
>> >>Paul, did you get enough to

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I appreciate your willingness to continue the list... however, I imagine 
there is someone on the list that can host the list for a couple hundred 
dollars a year??


How many total users are on the list?

Travis


On 3/6/2017 9:13 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

Guys,

$ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are much 
appreciated.

I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 for 
that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is needed on 
the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  There is 
no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't paid for the 
plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and then cancel it 
etc..

The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34.   
So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little expensive 
but I am glad to continue it.

Paul



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband connection.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important news 
things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy who 
died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him.
These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it must be 
allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.

Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're being 
heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sounds good!

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.



On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:

That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other fun stuff.
Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.

Mathew Howard wrote:

Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a
few hours.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
critical service.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

We received $ 570 in donations so far.  Again, thank you.

Its $ 150 a month (round numbers) plus the $ 99 support plan,
which I might drop and go to pay per incident but its low
priority support only for that.

Paul

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 11:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Paul, did you get enough to cover the year or do you need more?

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 9:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Donations

For those of you that sent a donation via Paypal to help
offset a portion of the Amazon hosting costs, thank you for
the kind gesture.

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 



N

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Wireless Administrator]

I hear you on the tech support complexity and feel it is best to keep that in 
house.  What we’re finding is that sales and tech support don’t mix well using 
the same staff.   I’m hoping someone here on the list will have had a positive 
experience and would be willing to share details.

 

Steve 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

 

I have had mixed results over the years.  Outsourcing sales will work just 
fine.  Tech support is a bit more tricky.  You will have to come up with a 
pretty exhaustive decision tree/flow chart and even then they will have to 
escalate a good portion of tech support calls back to you.  

 

From: Wireless Administrator 

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:13 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

 

Over time I’ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical support.  

 

Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I’m talking about 
new internet access account  signup process not marketing.  

 

Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Darin Steffl]

I know of a company that is starting who will do JUST that. Sales and
scheduling, etc. They are also planning on tech support as well.

I'll shoot you an email offlist so you can talk with this company. They're
an ISP and looking to start the sales/tech support where they treat your
customers as their own.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I have had mixed results over the years.  Outsourcing sales will work just
> fine.  Tech support is a bit more tricky.  You will have to come up with a
> pretty exhaustive decision tree/flow chart and even then they will have to
> escalate a good portion of tech support calls back to you.
>
> *From:* Wireless Administrator
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 9:13 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Outsource Sales
>
>
> Over time I’ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical
> support.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I’m talking
> about new internet access account  signup process not marketing.
>
>
>
> Steve B.
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Chuck McCown]

I don’t know how many people are on this list, at one point in history it was 
about 500.
But assume 100 are still here, that is $29 per person once a year.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Guys,

  $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are much 
appreciated.

  I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 
for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is 
needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  
There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't 
paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and 
then cancel it etc..

  The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34.   
So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little expensive 
but I am glad to continue it.

  Paul




  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
  Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

  Rory

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband connection.

  -Original Message-
  From: Rory Conaway
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important news 
things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy who 
died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him.
  These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.

  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
  Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it must 
be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.

  Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're being 
heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.

  Chris Wright
  Network Administrator

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

  Sounds good!

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.


  > On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
  >
  > That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
  > I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
  > wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other fun 
stuff.
  > Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
  > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
  >
  > It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.
  >
  > Mathew Howard wrote:
  >> Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a
  >> few hours.
  >>
  >> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman
  >> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
  >>
  >>Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
  >>critical service.
  >>
  >>
  >>Josh Luthman
  >>Office: 937-552-2340 
  >>Direct: 937-552-2343 
  >>1100 Wayne St
  >>Suite 1337
  >>Troy, OH 45373
  >>
  >>On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall >> wrote:
  >>
  >>We received $ 570 in donations so far.  Again, thank you.
  >>
  >>Its $ 150 a month (round numbers) plus the $ 99 support plan,
  >>which I might drop and go to pay per incident but its low
  >>priority support only for that.
  >>
  >>Paul
  >>
  >>*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
  >>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
  >>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 11:31 AM
  >>*To:* af@afmug.com 
  >>*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
  >>
  >>Paul, did you get enough to cover the year or do you need more?
  >>
  >>Rory
  >>
  >>*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
  >>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 9:02 AM
  >>*To:* af@afmug.com 
  >>   

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Josh Luthman]

If we can get 14 people to donate $150 each we're set for the year...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Guys,
>
> $ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are
> much appreciated.
>
> I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100
> for that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is
> needed on the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support
> plan.  There is no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are
> haven't paid for the plan previously when there is an incident, you can't
> buy it and then cancel it etc..
>
> The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $
> 249.34.   So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a
> little expensive but I am glad to continue it.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.
>
> Rory
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband
> connection.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rory Conaway
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important
> news things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese
> guy who died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on
> him.
> These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for
> installations.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-
> six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it
> must be allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.
>
> Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're
> being heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.
>
> Chris Wright
> Network Administrator
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> Sounds good!
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> > On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
> >
> > That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more
> > I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have
> > wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other
> fun stuff.
> > Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
> > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
> >
> > It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.
> >
> > Mathew Howard wrote:
> >> Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a
> >> few hours.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman
> >> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
> >>critical service.
> >>
> >>
> >>Josh Luthman
> >>Office: 937-552-2340 
> >>Direct: 937-552-2343 
> >>1100 Wayne St
> >>Suite 1337
> >>Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >>On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall  >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>We received $ 570 in donations so far.  Again, thank you.
> >>
> >>Its $ 150 a month (round numbers) plus the $ 99 support plan,
> >>which I might drop and go to pay per incident but its low
> >>priority support only for that.
> >>
> >>Paul
> >>
> >>*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> >>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> >>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 11:31 AM
> >>*To:* af@afmug.com 
> >>*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
> >>
> >>Paul, did you get enough to cover the year or do you need more?
> >>
> >>Rory
> >>
> >>*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> McCall
> >>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 9:02 AM
> >>*To:* af@afmug.com 
> >>*Subject:* [AFMUG] Donations
> >>
> >>For those of you that sent a donation via Paypal to help
> >>offset a portion of the Amazon hosting costs, thank you for
> >>the kind gesture.
> >>
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Chuck McCown]

I have had mixed results over the years.  Outsourcing sales will work just 
fine.  Tech support is a bit more tricky.  You will have to come up with a 
pretty exhaustive decision tree/flow chart and even then they will have to 
escalate a good portion of tech support calls back to you.  

From: Wireless Administrator 
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:13 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Outsource Sales

Over time I’ve seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical support.  

 

Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I’m talking about 
new internet access account  signup process not marketing.  

 

Steve B.

[AFMUG] Outsource Sales

[Wireless Administrator]

Over time I've seen plenty of discussion about outsourcing technical
support.  

 

Does anyone have experience outsourcing the sales process?  I'm talking
about new internet access account  signup process not marketing.  

 

Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] Donations

[Paul McCall]

Guys,

$ 970 in contributions have come in so far on supporting AFMUG and are much 
appreciated.

I checked with Amazon on the support consideration (currently paying $ 100 for 
that).  Unfortunately, to have support available on the API (which is needed on 
the mailing part) , we have to keep the $ 100 monthly support plan.  There is 
no pay per incident for the API level plan, and if you are haven't paid for the 
plan previously when there is an incident, you can't buy it and then cancel it 
etc..   

The monthly recurring AWS costs since October 2014, has averaged $ 249.34.   
So, figure an annual cost of $ 2992 in AWS fees.   Probably, a little expensive 
but I am glad to continue it.

Paul



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

And would have saved a lot of trees in the process.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 9:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sad, a death that could have been prevented by a decent broadband connection.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

I don't know, Friday Funnies would be missed.  Then there are important news 
things that covers dangers we should all be aware of like the Japanese guy who 
died when 6 tons of his umm, private magazine collection fell on him. 
These are dangers we should all be aware of when entering houses for 
installations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Or if one feels so compelled to post something politically charged, it must be 
allegorical and use nomenclature relevant to our industry.

Ex: If Mimosa truly wanted to convince Ubiquiti supporters that they're being 
heard, they should prioritize TCP ACK.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations

Sounds good!

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 3, 2017, at 5:49 PM,   wrote:
>
> That and shunning political junk.  The more I think about it the more 
> I am liking this list with everything but politics.  We all have 
> wasted too much of our time on that.  We can still have all the other fun 
> stuff.
> Food, movies, jokes, M-TOW use of the day photos...
>
> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 1:03 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>
> It may actually be good for some peoples blood pressure.
>
> Mathew Howard wrote:
>> Agreed. It's not going to kill any of us if the list is down for a 
>> few hours.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>Reduce it.  In the rare event there are issues, it's not a
>>critical service.
>>
>>
>>Josh Luthman
>>Office: 937-552-2340 
>>Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>1100 Wayne St
>>Suite 1337
>>Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Paul McCall >> wrote:
>>
>>We received $ 570 in donations so far.  Again, thank you.
>>
>>Its $ 150 a month (round numbers) plus the $ 99 support plan,
>>which I might drop and go to pay per incident but its low
>>priority support only for that.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
>>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 11:31 AM
>>*To:* af@afmug.com 
>>*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>>Paul, did you get enough to cover the year or do you need more?
>>
>>Rory
>>
>>*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
>>*Sent:* Friday, March 3, 2017 9:02 AM
>>*To:* af@afmug.com 
>>*Subject:* [AFMUG] Donations
>>
>>For those of you that sent a donation via Paypal to help
>>offset a portion of the Amazon hosting costs, thank you for
>>the kind gesture.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>Paul McCall, President
>>
>>PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>>658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>>Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>>772-564-6800 
>>
>>pa...@pdmnet.net 
>>
>>www.pdmnet.com 
>>
>>www.floridabroadband.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 

Re: [AFMUG] does anyone remember the name of the company that builds heavy duty tripods?

[Josh Luthman]

Texas Towers (part of RF Distributors) has the small folded brochure with a
few pages.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

> Ha, we have to be running out of companies.  It’s a small company, 3 page
> foldover brochure kind of company.  He hand builds his tripods with heavy
> duty piple.
>
>
>
> rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 9:39 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] does anyone remember the name of the company that
> builds heavy duty tripods?
>
>
>
> Was it SitePro (https://www.sitepro1.com/)
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/4/2017 2:38 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> �
>
> �
>
> *Rory Conaway � Triad Wireless � CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street � Phoenix � AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
> *�*
>
> �Optimism is going after Moby Dick in rowboat and taking tartar sauce
> with you.�
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Professional 2ft dish transport

[Josh Luthman]

Safe enough for a person, gotta be good for a dish.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

>