subject:"Monotonous posting"


On 20 Oct 2008, at 02:51, Lance A. Brown wrote:

> William T Goodall said the following on 10/19/2008 7:27 PM:
>>> First rule of dealing with trolls:  Don't Feed The Troll.
>>
>> That's a very sound policy I've been following for years. Don't post
>> in a thread you don't like, especially to complain that you don't  
>> like
>> it.
>
> Did I say I didn't like this thread?  Don't put words in my mouth.


I wasn't referring to *you*.

Don't post in a thread one doesn't like, especially to complain that  
one doesn't like it.

Vernacular Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
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atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Debunking B.S. from the so-called debunker (was Re: monotonous posting)

On 20 Oct 2008, at 02:05, Nick Arnett wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:24 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >wrote:
>
> Or, and this is my preference, just drop it.  You are completely  
> wrong; the
> numbers don't lie.

Of course you prefer not be shown to be wrong. I think it's very clear  
to any reasonable person that I am right. Your blustering and  
posturing isn't going to convince anyone otherwise.

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics Maru

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“Babies are born every day without an iPod. We will get there.” - Adam  
Sohn, the head of public relations for Microsoft's Zune division.

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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Lance A. Brown

William T Goodall said the following on 10/19/2008 7:27 PM:
>> First rule of dealing with trolls:  Don't Feed The Troll.
> 
> That's a very sound policy I've been following for years. Don't post  
> in a thread you don't like, especially to complain that you don't like  
> it.

Did I say I didn't like this thread?  Don't put words in my mouth.

--[Lance]

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Re: monotonous posting


On 20 Oct 2008, at 01:51, Nick Arnett wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >wrote:
>
>>
>> So my posts obviously didn't contribute to that decline since I
>> stopped making them. That leaves Nick's threats of censorship as an
>> explanation.
>
>
> And since there was no decline, but rather an extremely unusual  
> increase in
> postings, what conclusion do you draw???

That you are not very good at interpreting evidence?


Unsurprising Maru

-- 
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Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Debunking B.S. from the so-called debunker (was Re: monotonous posting)

2008-10-19 Thread Nick Arnett

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:24 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 19 Oct 2008, at 22:48, Nick Arnett wrote:
> > During the weeks following my post, we had abnormally high activity
> > -- more
> > than two standard deviations from the mean.  One of those weeks, we
> > were at
> > more than five standard deviations above the mean.
>
> Obviously controversy always causes a flurry of postings. For a true
> picture one must wait until the list quiesces again.

How... convenient for you to imagine that the data isn't meaningful when it
contradicts you.  Running for office, are you?

Anybody else think that explains six weeks of high posting activity followed
by two weeks of normal activity, very little of which had anything to do
with the post William would have us believe discouraged activity?

William, you actually haven't documented a statistically significant
decrease in postings (because there isn't one).  Maybe it's time for a
review of basic statistics?  The reason that the last two weeks' posting
level doesn't represent a significant drop is that 90 percent of values in a
normal distribution fall within one standard deviation of the mean.  The
"decline," in terms of statistical significance, is a pink unicorn.  Shoo it
away.

I have started two companies and have four patents for this kind of analysis
and eight years of experience doing it.  My patents were bought by
Nielsen/BuzzMetrics and my second startup was acquired by one of the biggest
social media agencies in the world. So, what do you have to back up your
analysis?  Like, you know, numbers and stuff?

Or, and this is my preference, just drop it.  You are completely wrong; the
numbers don't lie.

Nick
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Nick Arnett

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> So my posts obviously didn't contribute to that decline since I
> stopped making them. That leaves Nick's threats of censorship as an
> explanation.

And since there was no decline, but rather an extremely unusual increase in
postings, what conclusion do you draw???

Nick
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Charlie Bell

On 20/10/2008, at 11:11 AM, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>>
> I've always loved the quote from Abraham Lincoln:
>
> Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and
> remove all doubt.

If it was indeed Lincoln that penned it. It's also been attributed to  
Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde and a host of others. So it may well have been  
a piece of old-wive's advice that was repeated by quite a few eminent  
folks. :)

I also like the one that goes "One has two ears and one mouth, and  
should use them in that proportion".

Charlie
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Kevin B. O'Brien

Julia Thompson wrote:
> That's just me.  And, well, I have an underdeveloped sense of tact; at 
> least 2/3 of whatever might be perceived as "tact" in me is actually my 
> keeping my mouth shut when in doubt.  (If you do that in person, but stay 
> attentive to the conversation, you may end up with a reputation as a good 
> listener, and people tend to like you more.  That's about the only theory 
> I have to explain why I am as popular as I am at this point IRL.)
>   
I've always loved the quote from Abraham Lincoln:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and 
remove all doubt.


Regards,

-- 
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Charlie Bell


On 20/10/2008, at 10:50 AM, Julia Thompson wrote:
> Sometimes some folks have problem spotting the troll.

Yep. Sneaky at times, them trolls. And there's a subtle difference  
between someone trolling purely maliciously, and someone yanking a  
chain in order to hold a mirror up to someone else's arguments, if  
you'll forgive me the mixed metaphor...

Me, WYSIWYG. I like a good debate. I occasionally get caught up in  
things and need to back out earlier than I do (but this tendency has  
decreased since working for someone else, as I can no longer spend 2 -  
3 hours a day writing email and definitely don't post with beer in me  
as often!!!). But I don't have an "online persona".

Charlie.
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Julia Thompson

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008, Lance A. Brown wrote:

>
>
> Olin Elliott said the following on 10/19/2008 5:59 PM:
>> Or maybe it was because each one of his "monotonous posts" elicit
>> dozens of responses from people telling him how monotonous and
>> irritating he is.  I find everyone's responses to William, and the
>> energy that goes into villainizing him to be much more annoying than
>> anything he's posted.  Perhaps if people just ignored his posts and
>> used that time to post something interesting of their own, their
>> would be something worthwhile going on here.
>
> First rule of dealing with trolls:  Don't Feed The Troll.

Sometimes some folks have problem spotting the troll.

I'm cautious if I observe someone exhibiting behavior anywhere near 
trollish behavior.  If I decide after some more observation that it is, 
indeed, a troll, I just don't reply to the posts of that particular 
person.  Keeps me from looking like an idiot when more people figure out 
hey, yeah, that's a troll, and if it turns out not to be such a troll, I'm 
perfectly content to go back to replying.

That's just me.  And, well, I have an underdeveloped sense of tact; at 
least 2/3 of whatever might be perceived as "tact" in me is actually my 
keeping my mouth shut when in doubt.  (If you do that in person, but stay 
attentive to the conversation, you may end up with a reputation as a good 
listener, and people tend to like you more.  That's about the only theory 
I have to explain why I am as popular as I am at this point IRL.)

Julia

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Re: monotonous posting


On 19 Oct 2008, at 22:59, Olin Elliott wrote:

>> Maybe the posts have dropped off because people got so damn sick of  
>> your
>> monotonous posts.
>
> Or maybe it was because each one of his "monotonous posts" elicit  
> dozens of responses from people telling him how monotonous and  
> irritating he is.  I find everyone's responses to William, and the  
> energy that goes into villainizing him to be much more annoying than  
> anything he's posted.

I find that too.

>  Perhaps if people just ignored his posts and used that time to post  
> something interesting of their own, their would be something  
> worthwhile going on here.
>
> Just a thought.
>

How about an example?


Suggestion Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

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atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: monotonous posting


On 19 Oct 2008, at 22:15, Dave Land wrote:

> William,
>
> Nick never threatened to censor you, however much you wish to  
> interpret
> his email that way. He expressed concern "that your posts were a
> distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate"
>
> Seems he was right.
>
> Maybe the posts have dropped off because people got so damn sick of  
> your
> monotonous posts. There wasn't anything interesting happening here,
> thanks to your monomania about religion, so they found more  
> interesting
> things to do that listen to your repetitive drone.

As an experiment I ceased posting on the topic of religion at that time.

>
>
> We all can observe that posts on this list have, subsequent to your
> ceaseless drivel, declined precipitously.
>
So my posts obviously didn't contribute to that decline since I  
stopped making them. That leaves Nick's threats of censorship as an  
explanation.

Logical Maru


-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: monotonous posting


On 20 Oct 2008, at 00:01, Lance A. Brown wrote:

>
>
> Olin Elliott said the following on 10/19/2008 5:59 PM:
>> Or maybe it was because each one of his "monotonous posts" elicit
>> dozens of responses from people telling him how monotonous and
>> irritating he is.  I find everyone's responses to William, and the
>> energy that goes into villainizing him to be much more annoying than
>> anything he's posted.  Perhaps if people just ignored his posts and
>> used that time to post something interesting of their own, their
>> would be something worthwhile going on here.
>
> First rule of dealing with trolls:  Don't Feed The Troll.
>

That's a very sound policy I've been following for years. Don't post  
in a thread you don't like, especially to complain that you don't like  
it.

Obvious Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Debunking B.S. from the so-called debunker (was Re: monotonous posting)


On 19 Oct 2008, at 22:48, Nick Arnett wrote:
> During the weeks following my post, we had abnormally high activity  
> -- more
> than two standard deviations from the mean.  One of those weeks, we  
> were at
> more than five standard deviations above the mean.

Obviously controversy always causes a flurry of postings. For a true  
picture one must wait until the list quiesces again.

>  Even during the last two
> weeks, which have been lower than the previous six, we were still  
> less than
> one standard deviation below the mean,

One standard deviation below eh?

> which means that the activity level
> since my post has only been unusually high, not at any time  
> unusually low.
>

That's a whole lot of spin :-)

QED Maru


  "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product  
of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still  
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." - Albert  
Einstein

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/



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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Lance A. Brown



Olin Elliott said the following on 10/19/2008 5:59 PM:
> Or maybe it was because each one of his "monotonous posts" elicit
> dozens of responses from people telling him how monotonous and
> irritating he is.  I find everyone's responses to William, and the
> energy that goes into villainizing him to be much more annoying than
> anything he's posted.  Perhaps if people just ignored his posts and
> used that time to post something interesting of their own, their
> would be something worthwhile going on here.

First rule of dealing with trolls:  Don't Feed The Troll.

--[Lance]

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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Olin Elliott

>Maybe the posts have dropped off because people got so damn sick of your
>monotonous posts.

Or maybe it was because each one of his "monotonous posts" elicit dozens of
responses from people telling him how monotonous and irritating he is. I find
everyone's responses to William, and the energy that goes into villainizing him
to be much more annoying than anything he's posted. Perhaps if people just
ignored his posts and used that time to post something interesting of their
own, their would be something worthwhile going on here.

Just a thought.

Olin
- Original Message -
From: Dave Land<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: monotonous posting

William,

Nick never threatened to censor you, however much you wish to interpret
his email that way. He expressed concern "that your posts were a
distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate"

Seems he was right.

Maybe the posts have dropped off because people got so damn sick of your
monotonous posts. There wasn't anything interesting happening here,
thanks to your monomania about religion, so they found more interesting
things to do that listen to your repetitive drone.

We all can observe that posts on this list have, subsequent to your
ceaseless drivel, declined precipitously.

Your Own Petard Maru

Dave

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Debunking B.S. from the so-called debunker (was Re: monotonous posting)

2008-10-19 Thread Nick Arnett

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 1:05 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
>
> Indicating that my fears that Nick's threats of censorship would
> discourage posting were fully justified.

There's a lot I'd LIKE to say in response, but I'll just let the cold, hard
facts -- the numbers -- tell the story.

The average number of posts per week in the six weeks preceding my posting
was 86.

The average in the six weeks following?  It was 255!

If there is causality at work (not just correlation), then we could say that
my posting increased activity by 194 percent.  Increased.  As Jon Lovitz
said in "A League of Their Own," this would be more.

During the weeks following my post, we had abnormally high activity -- more
than two standard deviations from the mean.  One of those weeks, we were at
more than five standard deviations above the mean.  Even during the last two
weeks, which have been lower than the previous six, we were still less than
one standard deviation below the mean, which means that the activity level
since my post has only been unusually high, not at any time unusually low.

Nick
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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Dave Land

William,

Nick never threatened to censor you, however much you wish to interpret
his email that way. He expressed concern "that your posts were a
distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate"

Seems he was right.

Maybe the posts have dropped off because people got so damn sick of your
monotonous posts. There wasn't anything interesting happening here,
thanks to your monomania about religion, so they found more interesting
things to do that listen to your repetitive drone.

We all can observe that posts on this list have, subsequent to your
ceaseless drivel, declined precipitously.

Your Own Petard Maru

Dave

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Re: monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread David Hobby

William T Goodall wrote:
> On 19 Oct 2008, at 12:04, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
> 
>>> It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.
...
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
>> I don't think we've ever moderated anybody for frequent off-topic
>> posting, but I'm growing increasingly concerned that many of your
>> postings are a distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise
...
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
> 
>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might
>> otherwise participate.
>>
> 
> We can all observe that posts on this list have subsequently declined  
> precipitously.
...
>> Seems I was right.

William--

Definitely.  Because there aren't any other
possible reasons for the volume of posts to
fluctuate.  An excellent experimental design,
there!  : )

After observing many hippies with dogs, I
conclude that drug use makes one like puppies.

---David

Because it lets you see Dog, Maru
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Re: monotonous posting

On 19 Oct 2008, at 12:04, Jon Louis Mann wrote:

>> It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.
>> Obvious Maru
>
> what manifesto?
> oblivious maru...

On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote:

> I don't think we've ever moderated anybody for frequent off-topic
> posting, but I'm growing increasingly concerned that many of your
> postings are a distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise
> participate.  Others,including me, are just plain bored with it, since
> you haven't written anything new on the topic for a long, long time.
>

Thus declaring his intention of censoring people who bore him or whose  
posting he finds 'distracting' or 'offensive' by undisclosed  
subjective criteria that have not been discussed or approved on this  
list.

On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:

>
> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might
> otherwise participate.
>

We can all observe that posts on this list have subsequently declined  
precipitously.

On 15 Oct 2008, at 01:49, William T Goodall wrote:

>
> Seems I was right.

Indicating that my fears that Nick's threats of censorship would  
discourage posting were fully justified.

All clear now Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

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monotonous posting

2008-10-19 Thread Jon Louis Mann

> It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.
> Obvious Maru

what manifesto?
oblivious maru...

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-17 Thread William T Goodall


On 15 Oct 2008, at 12:34, William T Goodall wrote:

>
> On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote:
>
>> William T Goodall wrote:
>>> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
 I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
 position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you
 do
 not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who
 might
 otherwise participate.

>>>
>>> Seems I was right.
>>>
>>> As usual Maru
>>
>> William--
>>
>> Hi.  I give up, what do you mean?
>>
>
> It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.
>
> Obvious Maru

Bingo!

More Obvious Maru


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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-15 Thread Deborah Harrell

> William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  William T Goodall wrote:
> >>> I don't know who wrote:


> >>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
> >>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you  
> >>> do not agree and that this behaviour could be
> offensive to some who might otherwise participate.

> >> Seems I was right.

> It's been very quiet here since the thought police
> manifesto.

Hey, did somebody go and develop Heroes powers while I've not been looking?!

Debbi
Brain, Brain, What Is Brain? Maru


  
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-15 Thread Kevin B. O'Brien

Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> At 09:18 PM Tuesday 10/14/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>
>
>   
>> At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a
>> message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose.
>> It *does* happen sometimes.
>> 
>
>
>
> I wondered if that was what happened.
>
>
>
> History Repeats Itself Maru
>   
To me it is a variation on the old "Don't assume malice when stupidity 
is sufficient" principle.

Regards,

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216

"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-15 Thread Ronn! Blankenship

At 09:18 PM Tuesday 10/14/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:


>
>At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a
>message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose.
>It *does* happen sometimes.



I wondered if that was what happened.



History Repeats Itself Maru


. . . ronn!  :)



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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-15 Thread William T Goodall


On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote:

> William T Goodall wrote:
>> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
>>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
>>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you  
>>> do
>>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who  
>>> might
>>> otherwise participate.
>>>
>>
>> Seems I was right.
>>
>> As usual Maru
>
> William--
>
> Hi.  I give up, what do you mean?
>

It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.

Obvious Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-15 Thread William T Goodall


On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote:

> William T Goodall wrote:
>> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
>>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
>>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you  
>>> do
>>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who  
>>> might
>>> otherwise participate.
>>>
>>
>> Seems I was right.
>>
>> As usual Maru
>
> William--
>
> Hi.  I give up, what do you mean?
>

It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto.

Obvious Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro

Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>
> At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a
> message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose.
> It *does* happen sometimes.
>
No, I think he means that the financial system crashed because
the USA abandoned God and became an atheist country.

Alberto "must stop reading the Conservapedia" Monteiro
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread Kevin B. O'Brien

Dan M wrote:
> Nick Wrote
>   
>> Non sequitur?
>> 
>
> I bet Willie will insist that it was a sequitur.
>
> Dan M. 
>   
At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a 
message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose. 
It *does* happen sometimes.

Regards,

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216

"The common argument that crime is caused by poverty is a kind of 
slander on the poor." - H.L. Mencken
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RE: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread Dan M

Nick Wrote
> 
> Non sequitur?

I bet Willie will insist that it was a sequitur.

Dan M. 


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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread narnett

Non sequitur?
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread David Hobby

William T Goodall wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might
>> otherwise participate.
>>
> 
> Seems I was right.
> 
> As usual Maru

William--

Hi.  I give up, what do you mean?

---David

Pernicious, superstitious nonsense, Maru



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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-10-14 Thread William T Goodall


On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote:
>
> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might
> otherwise participate.
>

Seems I was right.

As usual Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

Debunking bullshit is a thankless task.

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RE: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (wasChild-killing religion))

2008-08-22 Thread Curtis Burisch

>I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority.
>I, for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run
amok,yawn, and hit Delete. 

I second that lack of emotion.

c


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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Ronn! Blankenship

At 09:33 AM Thursday 8/21/2008, Lance A. Brown wrote:
>Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you?
>
>He's a mind reader.  Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in
>telepathy. :-)
>
>The Amazing William Maru
>
>--[Lance]



I was being ***really*** nice and not saying exactly that.


Telepathy Works Both Ways Maru


. . . ronn!  :)



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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

On 21 Aug 2008, at 18:53, Olin Elliott wrote:

> The list has now been dominated by this discusion for much longer  
> than seems reasonable.  It is much more distracting than William's  
> posts.

It does seem an enormous amount of fuss about one or two posts per  
week. That's why I don't believe the reasons given for it.

Occam's Razor Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great  
evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. -  
Richard Dawkins

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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Olin Elliott

The list has now been dominated by this discusion for much longer than seems 
reasonable.  It is much more distracting than William's posts.  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick Arnett<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com> 
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:05 AM
  Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic.,monotonous posting (was 
Child-killing religion))


  On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>wrote<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

  > Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
  > > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you?
  >
  > He's a mind reader.  Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in
  > telepathy. :-)
  >
  > The Amazing William Maru


  LOL!

  Nick
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

On 21 Aug 2008, at 18:13, Max Battcher wrote:

> William T Goodall wrote:
>> There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my
>> posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence
>> the expression of views they don't like plain and simple.
>
> Are you kidding?  This is entirely about technical/procedural
> objections!  It's rude and against many internet taboos to re-post a
> referenced article in it's entirety to a mailing list, because it  
> wastes
> everyone's time and bandwidth.  If someone is interested in an article
> they can follow the link you send.

Actually on this list, because historically many members objected to  
content from sites that required registration/cookies and other kinds  
of tracking, quoting the relevant parts of the linked article was  
considered polite rather than taboo and I am  merely adhering to this  
community's standards on that.

[snip]

>
>
> Ouch, that may sound more hostile than intended, so let me bottom line
> it: I'm probably as anti-religious as you and I would say the same  
> thing
> for any other poster that posted similarly useless, rude posts that
> don't fit the mailing list medium and would be better in some other
> environment such as the aforementioned "social bookmarking" sites.
>

Several other posters have posted links, many with substantial quotes,  
on the list recently so they certainly seem to fit on this mailing  
list despite what you think.

Convention Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great  
evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. -  
Richard Dawkins

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Max Battcher

William T Goodall wrote:
> There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my  
> posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence  
> the expression of views they don't like plain and simple.

Are you kidding?  This is entirely about technical/procedural 
objections!  It's rude and against many internet taboos to re-post a 
referenced article in it's entirety to a mailing list, because it wastes 
everyone's time and bandwidth.  If someone is interested in an article 
they can follow the link you send.  But beyond rudeness it's a simple, 
clear copyright violation.  The New York Times or Google News or 
whatever other source you've copied would be well within their rights 
under the law to scour the Brin-L list for William T. Goodall re-posts 
and require that they be purged from the archives.  This isn't 
censorship in any form, it's basal crass commercialism: that article is 
worth money to them and you just ripped them off.

Furthermore, this mailing list is not your personal 
de.licio.us/ma.gnolia/digg/google reader shared items feed for you to 
track interesting articles that you read in the news, this is a 
discussion list.  If you want to start a discussion: start one.  Make a 
point.  Provide some commentary (and no, a single Maru line isn't 
exactly commentary).  Better yet: Ask a question or two!

Ouch, that may sound more hostile than intended, so let me bottom line 
it: I'm probably as anti-religious as you and I would say the same thing 
for any other poster that posted similarly useless, rude posts that 
don't fit the mailing list medium and would be better in some other 
environment such as the aforementioned "social bookmarking" sites.

--
--Max Battcher--
http://www.worldmaker.net/

Don't Copy That Floppy or News Site Maru
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Bruce Bostwick

On Aug 21, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Bruce Bostwick
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>  William's objection
>>
>> seems to be that the decision to moderate him
>
>
> There has been no such decision.  We remain extremely reluctant to  
> moderate
> anybody, for the very reasons you cite.
>
> There is discussion, which is necessary for those member of the list  
> who
> wish to participate in its management to participate.
>
>
>>  And as far as on-list meta-discussion is
>>
> concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and
>> posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the
>> list are acceptable?  If it's not OK on this list to be against
>> religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause  
>> for
>> being moderated.
>
>
> Such opinions would never be a reason for moderation as long I have  
> a say in
> it.
>
> Offensiveness is not really the issue and I shouldn't have included  
> it in my
> concerns.  My real concern is the non-originality of the postings,  
> using up
> peoples' attention on posts that add little or nothing to our  
> understanding
> of the issue or appreciation of William's position on the subject  
> (which in
> my mind needs no further clarification, unless it changes).
>
> It seems to me like "persuasion" with a blunt object, which does, at  
> some
> point, violate our guidelines.  I have never and will never decide  
> that on
> my own, except in crystal-clear cases of spamming and such.  This is  
> far,
> far from crystal clear and hence we're talking about it.
>
> My hope is that some consensus will emerge and the community will have
> managed the issue on its own.  Judging by the responses, it seems  
> that the
> majority finds the postings as tiresome as I do.  There are plenty of
> non-trivial arguments against religion.  Let's see some of those  
> sharp tools
> instead of the relentless pounding of a dull one, I say.
>
> Nick

That's enough for me.  :)

"On this one we'd like to think of ourselves collectively as 'da men',  
sir." -- Toby Ziegler



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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)


On 21 Aug 2008, at 16:19, Bruce Bostwick wrote:

> I haven't weighed in on this yet because I'm sort of a newbie on this
> list, and there's probably history to this that I'm missing, but I'm
> very familiar with lists where I'm not especailly interested in  (or
> necessarily agree with) every post I get on every list.  Some are
> offensive, some are annoying, some I'm just not interested in, and I
> tune them out.  I'm used to doing that, it's no big deal.

Exactly. There are thousands of posts I haven't read on this list.  
There used to be some posters that I pretty much never read anything  
by but they aren't here any more. Nick's complaint is that because he  
is a list moderator he has to read all the posts. I guess that's just  
the price that comes with that job.

>
>
> As far as this particular subject goes, I'm probably at least as anti-
> religion as William, as far as my perception and opinions are
> concerned.  My opposition to religion is probably much more specific,
> as I've learned a great deal about the more socially damaging elements
> of organized religion and can name names and make pretty accurate
> guesses as to where the bodies are buried, but I tend to find anti-
> religious posts comforting rather than offensive, because they tell me
> someone is actually paying attention and noticing that there's
> something rotten in Denmark, so to speak.  Long posts that are mostly
> quoted content from other sources, maybe, maybe not, that's more of a
> technical rule, but the overall tone not only doesn't bother me, I
> welcome it.

I like to see posts denouncing the pernicious poisonous filth of  
religion too. I find posts about prayer and faith and suchlike  
offensive and repulsive and feel that opposing views deserve equal  
consideration.

>
>
> I find the meta-discussion considerably more distracting than the
> discussion itself, because the meta-discussion brings the question
> into play of silencing a contributor to the discussion, and that
> *always* involves some question of whether that person is being
> silenced for purely procedural reasons, which may be legitimate in
> some cases, or if the person is being silenced because the owner or
> moderator *personally* finds the subject matter of the discussion
> offensive, which is a more serious concern for me because it begins to
> hint at censorship, which I personally find far more offensive than
> specific points of view on organized religion.  William's objection
> seems to be that the decision to moderate him is coming at a point in
> the discussion that suggests the decision to moderate him is
> influenced by a disagreement with the subject matter as much as any
> technical or procedural reasons, if I understand his comments
> correctly.  If true, that's a very serious (and IMHO legitimate)
> concern that should be addressed by this meta-discussion if it
> continues.

There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my  
posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence  
the expression of views they don't like plain and simple.

Pernicious Maru


-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great  
evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. -  
Richard Dawkins



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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Nick Arnett

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Bruce Bostwick
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

  William's objection
>
> seems to be that the decision to moderate him

There has been no such decision.  We remain extremely reluctant to moderate
anybody, for the very reasons you cite.

There is discussion, which is necessary for those member of the list who
wish to participate in its management to participate.

>   And as far as on-list meta-discussion is
>
concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and
> posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the
> list are acceptable?  If it's not OK on this list to be against
> religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause for
> being moderated.

Such opinions would never be a reason for moderation as long I have a say in
it.

Offensiveness is not really the issue and I shouldn't have included it in my
concerns.  My real concern is the non-originality of the postings, using up
peoples' attention on posts that add little or nothing to our understanding
of the issue or appreciation of William's position on the subject (which in
my mind needs no further clarification, unless it changes).

It seems to me like "persuasion" with a blunt object, which does, at some
point, violate our guidelines.  I have never and will never decide that on
my own, except in crystal-clear cases of spamming and such.  This is far,
far from crystal clear and hence we're talking about it.

My hope is that some consensus will emerge and the community will have
managed the issue on its own.  Judging by the responses, it seems that the
majority finds the postings as tiresome as I do.  There are plenty of
non-trivial arguments against religion.  Let's see some of those sharp tools
instead of the relentless pounding of a dull one, I say.

Nick
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Bruce Bostwick

I haven't weighed in on this yet because I'm sort of a newbie on this  
list, and there's probably history to this that I'm missing, but I'm  
very familiar with lists where I'm not especailly interested in  (or  
necessarily agree with) every post I get on every list.  Some are  
offensive, some are annoying, some I'm just not interested in, and I  
tune them out.  I'm used to doing that, it's no big deal.

As far as this particular subject goes, I'm probably at least as anti- 
religion as William, as far as my perception and opinions are  
concerned.  My opposition to religion is probably much more specific,  
as I've learned a great deal about the more socially damaging elements  
of organized religion and can name names and make pretty accurate  
guesses as to where the bodies are buried, but I tend to find anti- 
religious posts comforting rather than offensive, because they tell me  
someone is actually paying attention and noticing that there's  
something rotten in Denmark, so to speak.  Long posts that are mostly  
quoted content from other sources, maybe, maybe not, that's more of a  
technical rule, but the overall tone not only doesn't bother me, I  
welcome it.

I find the meta-discussion considerably more distracting than the  
discussion itself, because the meta-discussion brings the question  
into play of silencing a contributor to the discussion, and that  
*always* involves some question of whether that person is being  
silenced for purely procedural reasons, which may be legitimate in  
some cases, or if the person is being silenced because the owner or  
moderator *personally* finds the subject matter of the discussion  
offensive, which is a more serious concern for me because it begins to  
hint at censorship, which I personally find far more offensive than  
specific points of view on organized religion.  William's objection  
seems to be that the decision to moderate him is coming at a point in  
the discussion that suggests the decision to moderate him is  
influenced by a disagreement with the subject matter as much as any  
technical or procedural reasons, if I understand his comments  
correctly.  If true, that's a very serious (and IMHO legitimate)  
concern that should be addressed by this meta-discussion if it  
continues.

I'm only an ordinary list participant, but I've seen this sort of meta- 
discussion bog down or even kill email discussion lists. Can we leave  
well enough alone, or take the more detailed discussion of technical/ 
procedural issues offlist?  And as far as on-list meta-discussion is  
concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and  
posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the  
list are acceptable?  If it's not OK on this list to be against  
religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause for  
being moderated.

On Aug 20, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

> This is not a discussion list about religion.  I don't think we've  
> ever
> moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing
> increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction  
> and
> offensive to some who might otherwise participate.  Others,including  
> me, are
> just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on  
> the
> topic for a long, long time.

"I'm probably not a typical Texan in that I don't hunt. I fish, but I  
don't hunt. And it has nothing to do with how I think it might somehow  
be more holy to eat meat that's been bludgeoned to death by someone  
else, that's not it. It's really early in the morning, it's really  
cold outside, and...I don't wanna  go." -- Ron White

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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Nick Arnett

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you?
>
> He's a mind reader.  Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in
> telepathy. :-)
>
> The Amazing William Maru


LOL!

Nick
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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Lance A. Brown

Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you?

He's a mind reader.  Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in
telepathy. :-)

The Amazing William Maru

--[Lance]

-- 
 GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
 CACert.org Assurer
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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Lance A. Brown

Pat Mathews wrote:
> I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, for
> one, see another news article on some cult or its members run
> amok,yawn, and hit Delete.

Ditto.

--[Lance]

-- 
 GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
 CACert.org Assurer
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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Ronn! Blankenship

At 08:38 AM Thursday 8/21/2008, William T Goodall wrote:
>On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:07, Pat Mathews wrote:
>
> >
> > I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I,
> > for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run
> > amok,yawn, and hit Delete.
> >
> > Just thought you'd want to know.
> >
>
>What makes you think you're part of the list's silent majority?



If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you?


. . . ronn!  :)



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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))


On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:07, Pat Mathews wrote:

>
> I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I,  
> for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run  
> amok,yawn, and hit Delete.
>
> Just thought you'd want to know.
>

What makes you think you're part of the list's silent majority?

Contradiction Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the  
arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons.


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RE: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Pat Mathews


I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, for one, see 
another news article on some cult or its members run amok,yawn, and hit Delete. 

Just thought you'd want to know. 


http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/





> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
> Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was 
> Child-killing religion))
> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:55:55 +0100
> 
> 
> On 21 Aug 2008, at 11:04, Charlie Bell wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote:
> >>
> >> Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are
> >> quite old but still not settled.
> >
> > But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that
> > reinforce your worldview.
> 
> What's wrong with that?
> 
> >
> >>
> >> The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the
> >> pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should
> >> get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here.
> >
> > I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing
> > articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you.
> 
> But people who don't agree may not have seen them.
> 
> >
> >
> >> One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of
> >> opinion.
> >
> > Yes, but we all know yours already.
> >
> 
> 
> Well maybe we can just all post our geek codes and then shut the  
> list :-)
> 
> Expression Maru
> 
> -- 
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
> 
> "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
> atrocities." ~Voltaire.
> 
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)


On 21 Aug 2008, at 00:47, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:

> William T Goodall wrote:
>> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote:
>>
>>
>>> By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> And I'm not even the most frequent poster!
>>
> You are, however, the most monotonous and boring.
>

I like to excel at everything I do.

Mostest Maru


--  
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great  
evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. -  
Richard Dawkins



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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))


On 21 Aug 2008, at 11:04, Charlie Bell wrote:

>
> On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote:
>>
>> Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are
>> quite old but still not settled.
>
> But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that
> reinforce your worldview.

What's wrong with that?

>
>>
>> The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the
>> pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should
>> get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here.
>
> I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing
> articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you.

But people who don't agree may not have seen them.

>
>
>> One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of
>> opinion.
>
> Yes, but we all know yours already.
>


Well maybe we can just all post our geek codes and then shut the  
list :-)

Expression Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Kevin B. O'Brien

William T Goodall wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote:
>
>   
>> By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic.
>>
>> 
>
>
> And I'm not even the most frequent poster!
>   
You are, however, the most monotonous and boring.

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216

"Language is a virus from outer space." -- William S. Burroughs
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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Charlie Bell


On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote:
>
> Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are
> quite old but still not settled.

But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that  
reinforce your worldview.
>
> The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the
> pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should
> get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here.

I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing  
articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you.

> One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of
> opinion.

Yes, but we all know yours already.

Charlie.
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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

On 20 Aug 2008, at 21:04, Dave Land wrote:

> William,
>
> If you have something new to contribute to the discussion, I, for one,
> welcome it.

Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are  
quite old but still not settled.

>
>
> If you have more of the same with which to spam the list, then I, for
> one, do not.
>
> I know that I can simply skip or delete your messages, but where is
> the spirit of IAAMOAC, forcing your fellow list-mates to delete all or
> most of your messages?

The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the  
pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should  
get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here.

>
>
> Please, in the interests of community values, stop spamming the list
> with your hatred of religion, about which we are all completely,
> completely aware.
>

One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of  
opinion.

Expression Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Dave Land

William,

If you have something new to contribute to the discussion, I, for one,  
welcome it.

If you have more of the same with which to spam the list, then I, for  
one, do not.

I know that I can simply skip or delete your messages, but where is  
the spirit of IAAMOAC, forcing your fellow list-mates to delete all or  
most of your messages?

Please, in the interests of community values, stop spamming the list  
with your hatred of religion, about which we are all completely,  
completely aware.

Dave

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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread David Hobby

William T Goodall wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
>> William,
>> This is not a discussion list about religion.  I don't think we've  
>> ever
>> moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing
>> increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction  
>> and
>> offensive to some who might otherwise participate.  Others,including  
>> me, are
>> just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on  
>> the
>> topic for a long, long time.
>>
> 
> I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate  
> and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC?
> 
> It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that he's  
> abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should apologise  
> to me and the list for his outburst.

William--

Hey, I know you've been posting stuff like that for ages.
Maybe it just stands out more when there aren't many other
posts.  I think it's O.K. if you post the stuff, but it's
really one notch up from trolling.

To that extent, I'm on your side.  On the other hand, I
think Nick was voicing a valid concern.  Asking him to
apologize for that is pushing it.

---David

Evil pernicious nonsense, Maru

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Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

2008-08-21 Thread Alberto Monteiro

William T Goodall wrote:
> 
> I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate 
>  and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC?
> 
> It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that 
> he's  abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should 
> apologise  to me and the list for his outburst.
> 
The problem, William, is that your complain is based on the (false)
assumption that the list is a democratic place, with elected
representatives, and peer judgement. 

It's not. 

Someone pays to mantain it, so it's a plutocracy. In a plutocracy, 
the shareholders have absolute power to ban whoever they want.

Another example is the Wikipedia. There is an appearance of
democracy there, with people happily engaging in discussions and
elections, with the delusion that there's free speech and democracy.
In fact, it has an owner, and whenever he (or she or them or Them(tm))
decide, they will close everything and turn it into a paysite.

Alberto Monteiro

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-21 Thread Kevin B. O'Brien

Nick Arnett wrote:
> Your anti-religious postings are trivial.  That's the problem.  Science
> versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here.  That's not what
> you're offering us.
>   
I think I am seeing both sides to some degree. I have unsubbed from 
other lists because of people who couldn't stop beating a dead horse, 
and I can see that it might have that effect on some folks here. But I 
also tend to think that unless there is a wide-spread reaction I would 
leave the other guy alone. As a middle ground (perhaps) folks can always 
use a bozo-filter to get rid of his posts.

Regards,

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216

"Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means 
government by the badly educated." -- G.K. Chesterton
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Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))

On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote:

> William,
> This is not a discussion list about religion.  I don't think we've  
> ever
> moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing
> increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction  
> and
> offensive to some who might otherwise participate.  Others,including  
> me, are
> just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on  
> the
> topic for a long, long time.
>

I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate  
and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC?

It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that he's  
abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should apologise  
to me and the list for his outburst.

Civil Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)


On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote:

> By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic.
>


And I'm not even the most frequent poster!


Agenda  Maru


  "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product  
of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still  
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." - Albert  
Einstein

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/



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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)


On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:22, Nick Arnett wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:10 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >wrote:
>>
>>
>> Don't read it then. I certainly don't read every post to this list.
>
>
> Bzzzt.  As you know, I am one of the list managers and as a group,  
> we do and
> we will read all the messages.


Maybe you should stop being a list manager if it's too taxing for you.

>
>
>>
>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who  
>> might
>> otherwise participate.
>
>
> Gee, who could have seen that response coming?
>
> And... baloney.
>
> Your anti-religious postings are trivial.  That's the problem.   
> Science
> versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here.  That's not what
> you're offering us.
>

Those are your opinions with which I disagree.

QED Maru

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit  
atrocities." ~Voltaire.

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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-20 Thread Nick Arnett

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:10 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>
> Don't read it then. I certainly don't read every post to this list.

Bzzzt.  As you know, I am one of the list managers and as a group, we do and
we will read all the messages.

>
> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your
> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do
> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might
> otherwise participate.

Gee, who could have seen that response coming?

And... baloney.

Your anti-religious postings are trivial.  That's the problem.  Science
versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here.  That's not what
you're offering us.

Nick
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

2008-08-20 Thread Olin Elliott

By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic.

Olin
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick Arnett<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:12 AM
  Subject: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)

  William,
  This is not a discussion list about religion.  I don't think we've ever
  moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing
  increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction and
  offensive to some who might otherwise participate.  Others,including me, are
  just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on the
  topic for a long, long time.

  As a reminder, here is the list description:

  "This list is a community of people who are interested in the writings
  of David Brin and his fellow "Killer Bees" -- Gregory Benford, Greg
  Bear... and recently inducted members Stephen Baxter and Vernor
  Vinge. These authors represent the portion of the science
  fiction genre that takes science seriously, emphasizing careful
  thought experiments about plausible tomorrows. "

  On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 4:47 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>wrote<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

  > 
http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOpmWyOXR5j94s1rzxyBpDv886JQ<http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOpmWyOXR5j94s1rzxyBpDv886JQ>
  >
  > "Toddler 'starved to death by cult'

  ...

  Nick
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Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)