RE: Migrate to SVN?
Hi, I feel the same as Senor Colebourne to a large extent. Not -1, but not a +1 either -- a true neutral 0 on this one. When we do move, we need to make sure the relevant documentation for potential contributors, e.g. http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html, and all related pages which currently only have CVS information, are updated to include SVN as well. It's a higher barrier of entry unfortunately. Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 6:13 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: Migrate to SVN? I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. Stephen - Original Message - From: Phil Steitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
It's true that the svn tools aren't as good as the cvs tools yet. However, Struts recently moved to svn and it's amazing how easy it's been to refactor and rearrange the code base after the switch. The change has really livened up that project. Also, I was able to use Subclipse to work with the Struts repository. David --- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I feel the same as Senor Colebourne to a large extent. Not -1, but not a +1 either -- a true neutral 0 on this one. When we do move, we need to make sure the relevant documentation for potential contributors, e.g. http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html, and all related pages which currently only have CVS information, are updated to include SVN as well. It's a higher barrier of entry unfortunately. Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 6:13 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: Migrate to SVN? I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. Stephen - Original Message - From: Phil Steitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
I have the same feelings as Stephen. Without built-in Eclipse support, this is a pain for me to deal with. I deal with CVS everyday for work no matter what. Dealing with SVN means extra hoops and is a disincentive for me. Yes, playing with a new toy would be fun but at the end of the day, I need to get work done. Gary -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:13 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: Migrate to SVN? I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. Stephen - Original Message - From: Phil Steitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
I doubt Eclipse will ever have built-in svn support because there are several third party plugins available. Since adding a plugin update site is so trivial in Eclipse I wouldn't think this would be a big deal. The plugin I use with Struts svn is http://subclipse.tigris.org/. It works largely the same as Eclipse's cvs plugin. David --- Gary Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the same feelings as Stephen. Without built-in Eclipse support, this is a pain for me to deal with. I deal with CVS everyday for work no matter what. Dealing with SVN means extra hoops and is a disincentive for me. Yes, playing with a new toy would be fun but at the end of the day, I need to get work done. Gary -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:13 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: Migrate to SVN? I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. Stephen - Original Message - From: Phil Steitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On 29 Nov 2004, at 14:15, Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, I feel the same as Senor Colebourne to a large extent. Not -1, but not a +1 either -- a true neutral 0 on this one. When we do move, we need to make sure the relevant documentation for potential contributors, e.g. http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html, and all related pages which currently only have CVS information, are updated to include SVN as well. It's a higher barrier of entry unfortunately. yep. but this is something that jakarta as a whole needs to address. it wouldn't be that much effort each provided we could get a number of volunteers. maybe this is something that could be raised on general. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
Hi, I agree it's not a huge effort. I was (am) just saying it's a prerequisite. Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com -Original Message- From: robert burrell donkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 3:15 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: Re: Migrate to SVN? On 29 Nov 2004, at 14:15, Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, I feel the same as Senor Colebourne to a large extent. Not -1, but not a +1 either -- a true neutral 0 on this one. When we do move, we need to make sure the relevant documentation for potential contributors, e.g. http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html, and all related pages which currently only have CVS information, are updated to include SVN as well. It's a higher barrier of entry unfortunately. yep. but this is something that jakarta as a whole needs to address. it wouldn't be that much effort each provided we could get a number of volunteers. maybe this is something that could be raised on general. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
I doubt Eclipse will ever have built-in svn support because there are several third party plugins available. Since adding a plugin update site is so trivial in Eclipse I wouldn't think this would be a big deal. The plugin I use with Struts svn is http://subclipse.tigris.org/. It works largely the same as Eclipse's cvs plugin. I'm sure Eclipse *will* have built-in svn support at some point. If the Subclipse plug-in provides more or less the same functionality as the standard cvs plug-ins, and conforms to the VCM architecture, then there is every chance that it could be hosted by Eclipse and provided as an alternative to the cvs stuff. The key will be the adoption rate of svn in the wider community - the more projects like Apache/Jakarta that use it, the greater will be the demand for Eclipse to support it... One of those chicken and egg things... ;-) Colin Sharples IBM Advisory IT Specialist Email: sharples-at-nz.ibm.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:31:25 +1300, Sharples, Colin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt Eclipse will ever have built-in svn support because there are several third party plugins available. Since adding a plugin update site is so trivial in Eclipse I wouldn't think this would be a big deal. The plugin I use with Struts svn is http://subclipse.tigris.org/. It works largely the same as Eclipse's cvs plugin. I'm sure Eclipse *will* have built-in svn support at some point. If the Subclipse plug-in provides more or less the same functionality as the standard cvs plug-ins, and conforms to the VCM architecture, then there is every chance that it could be hosted by Eclipse and provided as an alternative to the cvs stuff. The key will be the adoption rate of svn in the wider community - the more projects like Apache/Jakarta that use it, the greater will be the demand for Eclipse to support it... It's a stated goal of the infrastructure team to get _all_ Apache projects moved over from CVS to SVN, for a variety of important reasons. A bunch of projects have already made the move, as you can see here: http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=Apache-SVN If you believe that tool support will follow adoption, then we'd be doing ourselves a favour by migrating sooner rather than later. Then the ASF can say we use only Subversion for all our source control needs, which is a pretty powerful statement that SVN is here to stay in a big way. -- Martin Cooper One of those chicken and egg things... ;-) Colin Sharples IBM Advisory IT Specialist Email: sharples-at-nz.ibm.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
I'm working with subversion (1.1.1)/subclipse/tortoiseSVN for a while now and I'm not completely convinced. The subclipse plugin for eclipse is by far not as mature as the cvs support (no links supported etc.) I was a little bit disappointed when I tried to use subclipse behind a proxy. I didn't managed to use subclipse behind a proxy, even though I convinced the tech stuff at the customer I'm currently working to enable the delta-v commands. On the other hand the more people using it will make the community grow that works on subclipse/subversion. Cheers, Daniel Jakarta Commons Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 25.11.04 20:08:02: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Mit WEB.DE FreePhone mit hoechster Qualitaet ab 0 Ct./Min. weltweit telefonieren! http://freephone.web.de/?mc=021201 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Le 26 nov. 04, à 00:07, Brett Porter a écrit : Has anyone experienced maven's svn support ? The scm plugin is probably the only thing not supporting it, and that's just a time issue. If it were a priority, it could be done reasonably quickly. Well, for Maven-based webistes (all at commons) that seems to be quite an issue. Is there any other place than the scm plugin where svn integration in maven makes sense ? paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
I don't have any problems with moving to SVN, in fact I've been itching to use it for a while, since it's become relatively mature. The only things I am unsure about is the tool support - I find the advanced CVS support in Eclipse invaluable. However, I guess the more people that use SVN, the more momentum will go into other projects like that one. So here's a +1 from me. Cheers, Rory Henri Yandell wrote: The problems I've hit are: 1/ No easy way to do 'cvs status -v project.xml' and list the tags that have been applied to a component. Instead I've switched to using an alias with: svn list http://svn.osjava.org/svn/osjava/releases | grep $1 | sed 's/\/$//' 2/ Have to change the mindset for doing releases without a piece of work. Say [io] doesn't want to release the find sub-package. The way I'd normally do this in CVS is to check it out; remove the find package and do a cvs tag. With SVN I think I would tag the whole thing; then check the tag out and treat it like a branch, removing files from it to get the right thing. I'm not sure if this is any worse; might just be a mental change. 3/ URLs. Definitely more of a pain to come up with the two long urls to tag with etc :) I wonder how well the IDE plugins do with this. How do you train them to understand your tag/branch/release strategy. 4/ Tagging multiple entities. With maven (or ant I guess), when using a shared super-build file (ie commons-build/project.xml), you should tag both your component and the super-build file. In Commons we've got around this by only using the super-build file for site generation, but I've a project where I use it for building too. To tag the right files, I have to create a new directory in releases/, commit that into svn, then svn copy various things into it. A little bit of a pain, more so if you screw up and do an update in releases/ :) Overall though I've adapted and am dealing with it. My only worries with SVN are the pains the berkeley db has given me, including some bug in viewcvs which corrupted the svn repo to the extent that the rescue scripts failed and whether IDE plugins will be good enough whenever I can afford a powerful enough laptop :) The only one that would affect the ASF for other people I think is whether their current method of using CVS is supported in SVN and how loudly they want to cry if it isn't. Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:44:21 -0800, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:37:42 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more painful tagging in svn is made up for by the advantages of svn, so I'm happy to embrace it. Hmm, I actually found tagging and branching in SVN just as easy as in CVS. Just: svn copy URL1 URL2 A doddle, as you might say. ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Well, for Maven-based webistes (all at commons) that seems to be quite an issue. Is there any other place than the scm plugin where svn integration in maven makes sense ? The scm plugin is only used for checkout, tagging, releases, etc. The changelog and activity reports work just fine in SVN. Cheers, Brett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
+1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Henri Yandell wrote: We've started doing Jakarta projects over to SVN, but we've been doing the easy stuff first to get into the hang of it. I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; So Henri you mean like in ~ 2006? This is really far out. Can't we just make the jump and not have the hassle of dealing with two repositories at the same time. That's over a year of using both CVS and SVN for commons stuff. I could deal but its kind of a PITA. This is just my opinion. Alex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel +1 If the svn repository is stable, maybe its time. I agree with this idea because Jakarta Commons is managed as a Project. It would be bad to have part here and part there. All of the commons should go to svn at one time. Ideally, I think Apache's move to svn should have been as a whole in the first place, the whole tree should have been migrated in one move. Maybe, all Jakarta should be migrated at one time? -Mark -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? +1 to migrate all at one time - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? +1 to migrate all at one time From the point of VFS (for sure, only a commons sandbox) +1 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
+1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. Stephen - Original Message - From: Phil Steitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me as well -- seems to make sense to move as a group. Phil Alex Karasulu wrote: +1 Noel J. Bergman wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Stephen Colebourne wrote: My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. IDEA's current EAP cycle has included support OOTB. I haven't tried it yet though... At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. Good point. How much will this affect commons as a whole? Are there any particular components that are receiving a lot of user contributions? I personally think they'll figure it out if we have reasonable SVN documentation to help them out. The reverse is also true. Folks can now get access to SVN behind a corporate proxy, where with CVS an SSH tunnel is nearly impossible to attain and pserver only slightly easier. Cheers, Brett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Noel, Can you comment on the admin-side advantages of svn ? I do know most of the client-side advantages... thanks paul Le 27 nov. 04, à 00:12, Stephen Colebourne a écrit : I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
Can you comment on the admin-side advantages of svn ? Elimination of the need for shell accounts, and the ability to shift load from the core infrastructure team to the PMCs. Trivial project movement. And since we sometimes have to ... cough ... help recover from people playing around with ,v files, I would not discount the issue of refactoring not creating any issues for infrastructure. Those are a few off-hand. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
If I might add one more, the process of promoting components from sandbox to proper will be easier with svn move or copy. One thing I'd like to see going forward is that a component is moved out of the sandbox upon promotion. I know it is just an empty directory, but digester and codec still appear here: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-commons-sandbox/. Also, I don't want to ever see waiting for bayard's lock in /blah/blah (not singling Henri out) I would like to forget ever knowing about cvs lock files. (http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/cvsmanual/cvs_88.html) Tim -Original Message- From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:05 PM To: Jakarta Commons Developers List Subject: RE: Migrate to SVN? Can you comment on the admin-side advantages of svn ? Elimination of the need for shell accounts, and the ability to shift load from the core infrastructure team to the PMCs. Trivial project movement. And since we sometimes have to ... cough ... help recover from people playing around with ,v files, I would not discount the issue of refactoring not creating any issues for infrastructure. Those are a few off-hand. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Stephen Colebourne wrote: I remain unenthused by SVN, probably because I don't have to manage a CVS server. Effectively I'm -1, but I'm probably not going to fight. My main reason is that SVN does not appear to be that widely adopted yet. A sign that the time has come to migrate would be when Eclipse/Idea ships with SVN support built in. At the moment, I fear we may just scare off some potential users/contributers. IntelliJ 5.0 will have subversion support and based on past history the EAP should have SVN within 2 months, I am hoping sooner. JBuilder 11 has Subversion support also. If we are moving though, I would want the pain all at once. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
We've started doing Jakarta projects over to SVN, but we've been doing the easy stuff first to get into the hang of it. I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; unless there are reasons to move quicker. One thing to work out with Commons is whether we should move the whole lot in one go; should do commons-proper then sandbox later; or do individual components one at a time as it fits their release cycles etc. Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:07:39 -0500, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
Henri Yandell wrote: I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; unless there are reasons to move quicker. End of NEXT year?! I do hope you're kidding. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:07:39 -0500, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? +1000! I've actually been contemplating proposing this recently, but you beat me to it. ;-) As for whether we do it in one go, or piecemeal, I have a strong preference for the former. However, if not everyone is ready to sign up for such a move, I would be more than happy to lead the charge for the components I'm involved with. -- Martin Cooper A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Now, for this cvs-to-svn (whichever its name is) should be working well. The only experience I had were pretty dark. If someone else manages this well, I'd be happy to switch to svn as a developer. I am using this myself already much. Has anyone experienced maven's svn support ? paul Le 25 nov. 04, à 21:04, Henri Yandell a écrit : One thing to work out with Commons is whether we should move the whole lot in one go; should do commons-proper then sandbox later; or do individual components one at a time as it fits their release cycles etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:04:37 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We've started doing Jakarta projects over to SVN, but we've been doing the easy stuff first to get into the hang of it. I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; unless there are reasons to move quicker. Couldn't we be done by the end of THIS year? The sooner we're done, the sooner people only have one source control system to worry about. (We'd also help free up the infra@ folks to get on with their plans for a CVS-free world. :) -- Martin Cooper One thing to work out with Commons is whether we should move the whole lot in one go; should do commons-proper then sandbox later; or do individual components one at a time as it fits their release cycles etc. Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:07:39 -0500, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6) should I just delete the /jakarta-commons-sandbox/email directory, or leave the folder and a note pointing to the promotion? What about the website as well? I think for [configuration] we just deleted both. The ideal scenario would be to use cvs delete on all the sandbox files, so that the original history is maintained there, but nobody who checks out the sandbox (with -dP at least) will be bothered by the files. The IDEAL situation would be to convert Jakarta Commons to SVN. Can we PLEASE consider doing so? A lot of projects, including the HTTP Server project, have been migrating, as can be seen from http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. Jakarta and XML are definitely the laggards now. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:13:41 -0500, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; unless there are reasons to move quicker. End of NEXT year?! I do hope you're kidding. All of Jakarta, not just Commons. It involves getting lots of disparate groups of people to move in the same direction and unless there's a need to rush (which there may be), I planned to be asking for a handful of projects each quarter. We've 19 to move. 17 now I guess with ORO and Velocity over. ORO seemed to go over easily enough; did Velocity have any problems do you know? Need to ask them. Also need to decide whether HttpClient would go over in Commons, or become a jakarta/ subproject at that point, same for JCS. Also whether various subprojects of Jakarta that are talking about TLP would go straight to TLP in SVN. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Migrate to SVN?
Henri Yandell wrote: Noel J. Bergman wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I think a pretty fair target for Jakarta is to be fully in SVN by the end of next year; unless there are reasons to move quicker. End of NEXT year?! I do hope you're kidding. All of Jakarta, not just Commons. I knew what you meant. Same response. Also need to decide whether HttpClient would go over in Commons, or become a jakarta/ subproject at that point, same for JCS. Makes no difference. Once in SVN, it is trivial to reorganize. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
It gave me pain; as has installing an svn server, client, Subclipse (Eclipse plugin), tagging in svn and generally maintaining the Berkley DB (it can get corrupted). The ASF though has much more experience with the svn server-side; so the only ones that would really worry me are installing a client, Subclipse and tagging. Once I figured it out, the client installed on Linux okay. On Windows it's a doddle, and on the Mac you do it the same way as on Linux; the fink install was crappy. It might be usable now, or maybe there's a Mac package for it. I've not heard that IDE plugins are any better, but I don't use them so it's not a biggy for me. The more painful tagging in svn is made up for by the advantages of svn, so I'm happy to embrace it. Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:18:28 +0100, Paul Libbrecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, for this cvs-to-svn (whichever its name is) should be working well. The only experience I had were pretty dark. If someone else manages this well, I'd be happy to switch to svn as a developer. I am using this myself already much. Has anyone experienced maven's svn support ? paul Le 25 nov. 04, à 21:04, Henri Yandell a écrit : One thing to work out with Commons is whether we should move the whole lot in one go; should do commons-proper then sandbox later; or do individual components one at a time as it fits their release cycles etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:37:42 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It gave me pain; as has installing an svn server, client, Subclipse (Eclipse plugin), tagging in svn and generally maintaining the Berkley DB (it can get corrupted). The ASF though has much more experience with the svn server-side; so the only ones that would really worry me are installing a client, Subclipse and tagging. Once I figured it out, the client installed on Linux okay. On Windows it's a doddle, and on the Mac you do it the same way as on Linux; the fink install was crappy. It might be usable now, or maybe there's a Mac package for it. I've not heard that IDE plugins are any better, but I don't use them so it's not a biggy for me. The more painful tagging in svn is made up for by the advantages of svn, so I'm happy to embrace it. Hmm, I actually found tagging and branching in SVN just as easy as in CVS. Just: svn copy URL1 URL2 A doddle, as you might say. ;-) -- Martin Cooper Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:18:28 +0100, Paul Libbrecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, for this cvs-to-svn (whichever its name is) should be working well. The only experience I had were pretty dark. If someone else manages this well, I'd be happy to switch to svn as a developer. I am using this myself already much. Has anyone experienced maven's svn support ? paul Le 25 nov. 04, à 21:04, Henri Yandell a écrit : One thing to work out with Commons is whether we should move the whole lot in one go; should do commons-proper then sandbox later; or do individual components one at a time as it fits their release cycles etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
Le 25 nov. 04, à 21:37, Henri Yandell a écrit : and on the Mac you do it the same way as on Linux; the fink install was crappy. It might be usable now, or maybe there's a Mac package for it. It worked fine for me, both server and client. Do note that it is now in the stable tree, svn version 1.0.6... maybe you tested in darker times... paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
The problems I've hit are: 1/ No easy way to do 'cvs status -v project.xml' and list the tags that have been applied to a component. Instead I've switched to using an alias with: svn list http://svn.osjava.org/svn/osjava/releases | grep $1 | sed 's/\/$//' 2/ Have to change the mindset for doing releases without a piece of work. Say [io] doesn't want to release the find sub-package. The way I'd normally do this in CVS is to check it out; remove the find package and do a cvs tag. With SVN I think I would tag the whole thing; then check the tag out and treat it like a branch, removing files from it to get the right thing. I'm not sure if this is any worse; might just be a mental change. 3/ URLs. Definitely more of a pain to come up with the two long urls to tag with etc :) I wonder how well the IDE plugins do with this. How do you train them to understand your tag/branch/release strategy. 4/ Tagging multiple entities. With maven (or ant I guess), when using a shared super-build file (ie commons-build/project.xml), you should tag both your component and the super-build file. In Commons we've got around this by only using the super-build file for site generation, but I've a project where I use it for building too. To tag the right files, I have to create a new directory in releases/, commit that into svn, then svn copy various things into it. A little bit of a pain, more so if you screw up and do an update in releases/ :) Overall though I've adapted and am dealing with it. My only worries with SVN are the pains the berkeley db has given me, including some bug in viewcvs which corrupted the svn repo to the extent that the rescue scripts failed and whether IDE plugins will be good enough whenever I can afford a powerful enough laptop :) The only one that would affect the ASF for other people I think is whether their current method of using CVS is supported in SVN and how loudly they want to cry if it isn't. Hen On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:44:21 -0800, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:37:42 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more painful tagging in svn is made up for by the advantages of svn, so I'm happy to embrace it. Hmm, I actually found tagging and branching in SVN just as easy as in CVS. Just: svn copy URL1 URL2 A doddle, as you might say. ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Migrate to SVN?
I'm not really committing frequently in commons, but I'm in favour of this happening. Has anyone experienced maven's svn support ? The scm plugin is probably the only thing not supporting it, and that's just a time issue. If it were a priority, it could be done reasonably quickly. Other than that, I think that it should be fine. I'd be happy to address any issues that arise as a priority. Cheers, Brett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
