Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does this mean that you guys won't touch it?? ;) Could someone tell me how decisions are made over here? Note that I'm just a cooker user/tester, but have been on the list for a bit, so weigh my opinion with that perspective.. Yes, that's basically what it means. It can never make it into the downloadable version, tho it could in theory make it into the boxed/shipped/paid version (but practically, would have to do XP/2K first, and would have to be well tested enough to be something worth being part of the paid-for version). That means this isn't the entry point you are looking for. And I still think the argument is not valid. We are already shipping windows tools on the CDs which cannot be compiled with free tools only. We are not debian, and since this belongs on main CD, you are at the mercy of the developpers payed by mandrake (people here with a mandrakesoft.com email). If one of them says its ok, it can (at some future time) be included. If they say no, it cannot. well, successful free software projects often use dictatorship; the debian project too as a team that reject things because of lacks of freedom or stabilizing issue, ... what a shame that free software world is not so free :-)
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Thierry Vignaud wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does this mean that you guys won't touch it?? ;) Could someone tell me how decisions are made over here? Note that I'm just a cooker user/tester, but have been on the list for a bit, so weigh my opinion with that perspective.. Yes, that's basically what it means. It can never make it into the downloadable version, tho it could in theory make it into the boxed/shipped/paid version (but practically, would have to do XP/2K first, and would have to be well tested enough to be something worth being part of the paid-for version). That means this isn't the entry point you are looking for. And I still think the argument is not valid. We are already shipping windows tools on the CDs which cannot be compiled with free tools only. We are not debian, and since this belongs on main CD, you are at the mercy of the developpers payed by mandrake (people here with a mandrakesoft.com email). If one of them says its ok, it can (at some future time) be included. If they say no, it cannot. well, successful free software projects often use dictatorship; the debian project too as a team that reject things because of lacks of freedom or stabilizing issue, ... what a shame that free software world is not so free :-) It's still free. Everyone is free to work on software as they choose, and Mandrake is free to decide whether or not they want to include that software in a product with their name on it. Developing free software does not give anyone the right to force their software on anyone else. There's another company that has the monopoly on that. ;-) -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdkduron KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
lot easier. One does *not* replace another. If you had to make do with one, :D ...It makes sense to me to put more effort into bringing the NTFS-for-Linux up to par - *if* you have a choice - than to polish the extN-for-MS-Windows driver. I don't understand why we - as a community - have to make do with one or the other. If it is a question posed to me personally, it does make sense. ;) I do see that NTFS-for-Linux does have more use. But I still stick to my stand that one does not replace the other. :)) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Leon Brooks Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:08, Manoj Joseph wrote: Are you suggesting that writing an ext2 driver for windows is the wrong approach and writing an ntfs driver is the right one? If that is what you say, I disagree. IMHO *both* are required. Support on both sides (Windows and Linux) for native file systems of both sides would make life lot easier. One does *not* replace another. If you had to make do with one, a full-featured NTFS driver for Linux would be the best from a migrational PoV. Which system do you *want* to spend the most time in? Ext[23] from MS-Windows seems to being addressed at least three times, NTFS for Linux not quite once. It makes sense to me to put more effort into bringing the NTFS-for-Linux up to par - *if* you have a choice - than to polish the extN-for-MS-Windows driver. Cheers; Leon
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hi, but I think it belongs in Contribs. It doesn't make the requirements, it is not free enough (similarly to freedos, which can't be compiled with free software). I am new to 'cooker'. I am not sure how things work over here... Does this mean that you guys won't touch it?? ;) Could someone tell me how decisions are made over here? Thanks a lot for your time! :) Regards, Manoj -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Buchan Milne Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Leon Brooks wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. IMHO, no, it's a crutch supporting your use of Windows. NTFS resizing is a migration tool. NTFS read support is a migration tool. vfat write support is a migration tool. Samba (client) is software supporting migratees, but this belongs with Cygwin, mingw, Dev-C++, OpenOffice.org for Windows, Gimp for Windows (all of which are more free BTW), none of which we ship. You ship loadlin, why not this? Loadlin can be used to bootstrap an installation on machines which have no other means of booting an installation. At least consider it for MandrakeClub, MandrakeClub doesn't really have anything setup for distributing anything but RPMs. IMHO, there should be a Windows compatability CD in the Powerpack/ProSuite, with the software I mentioned above and this driver instead. If people can access MandrakeClub, they can download it seperately. but I think it belongs in Contribs. It doesn't make the requirements, it is not free enough (similarly to freedos, which can't be compiled with free software). The rules (since there is not published policy) is something like: 1)it must be possible to build all packages in main with only packages in main 2)it must be possible to build all packages in contrib with only packages in main and contrib 3)all packages in main and contrib must be open-source To compile this driver, we would need the DDK, which is not open-source, thus cannot go in contrib, thus the driver would not satisfy (2). AFAIK everything else in main and contrib is done this way. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/RLBWrJK6UGDSBKcRAkMmAKCtk+FOyF1UwEA+kG8sSqC+2uly1ACfUUuJ otya9y+wtJF7AvN9+c92new= =7p24 -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Fri 22 Aug 2003 03:30, Manoj Joseph posted as excerpted below: Hi, but I think it belongs in Contribs. It doesn't make the requirements, it is not free enough (similarly to freedos, which can't be compiled with free software). I am new to 'cooker'. I am not sure how things work over here... Does this mean that you guys won't touch it?? ;) Could someone tell me how decisions are made over here? Note that I'm just a cooker user/tester, but have been on the list for a bit, so weigh my opinion with that perspective.. Yes, that's basically what it means. It can never make it into the downloadable version, tho it could in theory make it into the boxed/shipped/paid version (but practically, would have to do XP/2K first, and would have to be well tested enough to be something worth being part of the paid-for version). That means this isn't the entry point you are looking for. I had suggested PLF, which does this sort of license encumbered thing, but as others pointed out, they distribute rpms.. Linux stuff, not stuff for MSWormOS. Therefore, it isn't likely to get distributed there either. Perhaps try Suse, or one of the ISV/consultant firms, tho the big ones probably aren't interested due to the fact the big jobs they generally deal with are probably to big to run the dual boots in which this would be useful. A local jobber computer consultant/contractor might be /quite/ interested, however. It might even land you a job with one. shrug Meanwhile, maintaining it in decent view on sourceforge likely remains the best way to grow interest and users. That's my honest opinion.. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 04:44:50 -0700 Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri 22 Aug 2003 03:30, Manoj Joseph posted as excerpted below: It doesn't make the requirements, it is not free enough (similarly to freedos, which can't be compiled with free software). I am new to 'cooker'. I am not sure how things work over here... Does this mean that you guys won't touch it?? ;) Could someone tell me how decisions are made over here? Note that I'm just a cooker user/tester, but have been on the list for a bit, so weigh my opinion with that perspective.. Yes, that's basically what it means. It can never make it into the downloadable version, tho it could in theory make it into the boxed/shipped/paid version (but practically, would have to do XP/2K first, and would have to be well tested enough to be something worth being part of the paid-for version). That means this isn't the entry point you are looking for. Pushing it to the several projects who publish software for Windows will be a good idea as well. Someone already posted two url's for those projects, and I believe there are several of these. These people publish software for Windows, like The Gimp, probably explore2fs or similar software, and this software would fit right in. You target Windows users, right? I guess this is a rather grey area, some people want this software in Mandrake, some don't. But in the end it's Windows software, and there's no real need to put it on the Mandrake cd's. That's just my take on it. Perhaps try Suse, or one of the ISV/consultant firms, tho the big ones probably aren't interested due to the fact the big jobs they generally deal with are probably to big to run the dual boots in which this would be useful. A local jobber computer consultant/contractor might be /quite/ interested, however. It might even land you a job with one. shrug Meanwhile, maintaining it in decent view on sourceforge likely remains the best way to grow interest and users. -- Marcel Pol
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Free as in free beer or free speech ? Free as in you don't pay anything. DDK is not GPL or open source. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Olivier Blin Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. Free as in free beer or free speech ? -- Olivier Blin
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
...Not everything on the CDs has to be free, but everything that is part of the downloadable distro should be as close to free as possible IMHO. IMHO this winext2fsd project is as close to _free_ as it gets for a Windows NT driver. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Austin Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On 08/20/03 11:12:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will probably never use this, but I think it _is_ a valuable addition to the distro. Even if nobody uses it is looks like in a press release. In this case, being a little less extremistic could be a good thing. You are right... idealism doesn't sell a distro. Don't forget though that the CD's don't make the distro. Not everything on the CDs has to be free, but everything that is part of the downloadable distro should be as close to free as possible IMHO. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Note: In this post, I use the term free to mean - 0$ cost. I do not like the free argument when talking about windows tools. I think even the autostart program on the cds cannot be compiled with a free compiler (isn't it done with delphi?). This driver cannot be rejected because of this I think. My project is open-source and free. Rejecting it because it requires the DDK (to compile) which not open-source or GPL is, to me a silly argument. _I_ think, it is hanging on to the letters of the rules and forgetting the spirit. It is virtually impossible to ship anything free on windows. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Guillaume Rousse wrote: Ainsi parlait Manoj Joseph : On August 20, 2003 7:56 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: But, it is not the prime aim of Mandrake Linux to provide missing features in a proprietary operating system. :) : Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. It needs 1. a Windows compiler (compiler that can compile code for windows) 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. I'm not sure you understand the sense of free software... We're refering to the license, not the price. I do not like the free argument when talking about windows tools. I think even the autostart program on the cds cannot be compiled with a free compiler (isn't it done with delphi?). This driver cannot be rejected because of this I think. It is virtually impossible to ship anything free on windows. I will probably never use this, but I think it _is_ a valuable addition to the distro. Even if nobody uses it is looks like in a press release. In this case, being a little less extremistic could be a good thing. d.
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, Can do. Will do *if* there is _a chance_ of making it to the distro. Volunteers for trying it out (beta testing) will help *a lot*. ..and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). The installation, IMHO is a breeze for NT (right now). ... And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. That is where beta testing comes in... :) I can't give a 99.99% guarantee if I do it all by myself. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:21 AM To: Frederic Crozat Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Frederic Crozat wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. Oh come on. There are other windoze programs on the disks as well. If suddenly a new fs for cdroms is developed, will mdk ship isos with an fs unreadable for windows? Lets make the README on the disk also in koffice format, we are only developing for linux anyway, right? Let's ask MS to ship rawwrite as well. This is about interoperability, and let's not make the same mistake as MS does (we are developing a proprietary office suite, why would we ship import filters for OO.org anyway?). I do not think we are doing a linux distro is a valid reason not to include it. It would look good in a press release (like ntfs resizing did) and it is a nice feature for people who dual-boot. That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. d.
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
I agree too. :( But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! Please!!! Could you define a 'SECURITY HOLE'?? Letting an unauthorized user access an ext2 partition from Windows NT could cause a 'security breach'. Setting up a dual-boot would be a security hole! :)) It allows to write on protected files. I remember such a software for windows95 which allows to acces to ext2. Please don't spread this software ... and use reiserfs or better the new reiser4. Not spreading that software is *not* a solution to this 'Security hole'. :)) I am not even suggesting that this is not an issue. Guillaume Cottenceau ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), they guy who responded to me when I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] also expressed similar concerns. Probable solutions to this issue: 1. Permit the Administrator to configure who can access what. a. who can access system files b. protected files 2. Set the driver to load manually - with only administrators allowed to load it. Trying to map the users in NT with that of that linux installation is IMHO not a practical solution. Right now, it does not prevent any user from accessing any file. But that can be changed. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pierre Jarillon Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution Le Mercredi 20 Août 2003 15:54, Frederic Crozat a écrit : On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. I agree too. But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! It allows to write on protected files. I remember such a software for windows95 which allows to acces to ext2. Please don't spread this software ... and use reiserfs or better the new reiser4. -- Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/ Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org/
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hi Bob, I have always taken care of this by creating a separate fat32 partition for file sharing across the two systems. I then can move the relevant My Docs (et al) to this d: partition easily enough. As long as we are talking about a non-journaling filesystem, I can't see much of a *practical difference between this and your proposal. The advantage is that you add no additional software and it *will* work. I disagree with you Bob. If you have used a dual-boot system - continued to use both Windows and Linux - you would see that you need to access files in a non-accessible partition ever so often. So, you re-boot into the other os, copy the file to a fat32 partition and re-boot again. I have done this *many* times. I think there is a *practical* need - for some users. Regards, Manoj -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of w9ya Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution Hey Manoj: I have always taken care of this by creating a separate fat32 partition for file sharing across the two systems. I then can move the relevant My Docs (et al) to this d: partition easily enough. As long as we are talking about a non-journaling filesystem, I can't see much of a *practical difference between this and your proposal. The advantage is that you add no additional software and it *will* work. Bob Finch w9ya On Wednesday 20 August 2003 09:53 am, Michael Lothian wrote: Hi I've already used this tool in XP (using the compatibility wizard) of course it didn't work to wellbut that's microsoft's compatibility wizard for you. I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. Well that's my 2 pennies worth Mike ;-) Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thanks a lot for your time! Regards, Manoj
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Wrong approach. Why? I am not doing a ntfs file system driver for linux. Lack of the NTFS information? The fact that the NTFS file system is not documented *is* a major factor. The reason is nobody has the time to do it. I don't think so. ...Your effort would be MUCH MORE appreciated there, by millions of users. :) -Original Message- From: Szakacsits Szabolcs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Manoj Joseph Subject: RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Manoj Joseph wrote: Lots of linux users are not aware that such a driver *can* exist. I didn't until a month before I started working on this project. ;) Wrong approach. The root of the problem is the Linux NTFS write support isn't finished. Why? Lack of the NTFS information? No. The reason is nobody has the time to do it. Your effort would be MUCH MORE appreciated there, by millions of users. Szaka
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. I think so too! :) But transferring files is not the only use. A Windows user usually has Windows only application that continue to be used even after switching to dual-boot. Those applications don't get thrown out - at least for a while... Getting those applications to access the ext2 partitions is *useful*. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. It can be done. That is what I plan to do. I made this post to see if others are also enthusiastic about this project. Regards, Manoj -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Lothian Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution Hi I've already used this tool in XP (using the compatibility wizard) of course it didn't work to wellbut that's microsoft's compatibility wizard for you. I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. Well that's my 2 pennies worth Mike ;-) Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thanks a lot for your time! Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Pierre Jarillon wrote: I agree too. But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! then do not install it? having another OS on your machine and unencrypted filesystems is _already_ an security hole. This driver has nothing to do with that. You can only dual boot if you have physical access to the box, so I see no problem. If you want to be secure, do not install windoze. d.
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Manoj Joseph wrote: Wrong approach. Why? I am not doing a ntfs file system driver for linux. AFAIR, you mentioned it helps Win - Linux migration. If you migrate, then you want to solve issues in the new, native environment, not escaping and working around. Fix the cause, not the symptom. However your tool can be a very valuable one for Linux - Win migrants, so asking Microsft to including it seems quite reasonable, soon ;) Moreover as others also pointed out, there are several such tools. I know, yours is in kernel space and better, etc, but it's still the not invented here category, no real innovation, value in my opinion (you asked for it ;) Lack of the NTFS information? The fact that the NTFS file system is not documented *is* a major factor. It's a myth, this is why I also mentioned it before. It took me about one month in my limited free time to go through the current, public NTFS docs and sources and write ntfsresize and fix/help to fix all known problems in the version 2 NTFS driver (what most distros ship). Anton Altaparmakov, the driver maintainer, says, the problem [to implement _full_ write support] is the lack of time, not lack of public knowledge. But don't believe us [linux-ntfs developers], just think it over. If you have the knowledge how to read, sure you also know who to write those on-disk data [there might be technologies where this is not true, but it's not NTFS]. However NTFS is pretty complex and write support is at least 10x harder to implement than read support due to e.g. carefully handling concurrency issues. The reason is nobody has the time to do it. I don't think so. I definitely know, I don't have time. Anton says he also doesn't have time (doing his PH.D). I believe this because it happens he ignores my patches, no regular releases, announcements or real activity. Flatcap, another developer and the webmaster, also doesn't have time, ignores emails or can respond only weeks later, web site is pretty outdated, etc. Rarely people ask what they could help, they are told then they are gone without reappearing again. So at present Linux NTFS develpment is pretty in stalled, maintaince mode, for half, one year (e.g. I wrote the ntfs resizer over 1 year ago, it just recently started to be known, thanks to Mandrake). ...Your effort would be MUCH MORE appreciated there, by millions of users. :) I'm not joking :) See e.g. the statistics of the Linux-NTFS project (the lines at the right is down because those data are for this, not an entire month) http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?report=monthsgroup_id=13956 Over 2,300,000 page views. Goggle stats says, every month there are 1-2% more NT based OS (NTFS) than Win9* one (FAT). FAT has volume and file size limits and several other drawbacks and soon will go away except for special purposes. Szaka
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. You ship loadlin, why not this? At least consider it for MandrakeClub, but I think it belongs in Contribs. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:46, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:30, Levi Ramsey wrote: Am I the only one who's been waiting for someone to muddy those waters with a beer whose recipe is GPL'd? ;o) Besides, have any of you ever met anyone at *all* who's come across free beer? :D I don't drink beer (don't like the flavour, and don't need intoxicants to have fun), but I have been offered beer for free on many occasions. Cheers; Leon
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hi Szaka, Wrong approach. Why? I am not doing a ntfs file system driver for linux. AFAIR, you mentioned it helps Win - Linux migration. If you migrate, then you want to solve issues in the new, native environment, not escaping and I don't think I understand you. Are you suggesting that writing an ext2 driver for windows is the wrong approach and writing an ntfs driver is the right one? If that is what you say, I disagree. IMHO *both* are required. Support on both sides (Windows and Linux) for native file systems of both sides would make life lot easier. One does *not* replace another. working around. Fix the cause, not the symptom. However your tool can be a very valuable one for Linux - Win migrants, so asking Microsoft to including it seems quite reasonable, soon ;) :) Regarding my comments on the documentation of ntfs and lack of time, I stand corrected. :) Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hey Manoj; Well if you have to keep booting back and forth just to move a file, it just shows bad planning. I have set up business clients this way, they are told to use the fat332 partition for work used across both op systems, and they actually do just that ! (i.e. No problems.) Bob On Thursday 21 August 2003 01:04 am, Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi Bob, I have always taken care of this by creating a separate fat32 partition for file sharing across the two systems. I then can move the relevant My Docs (et al) to this d: partition easily enough. As long as we are talking about a non-journaling filesystem, I can't see much of a *practical difference between this and your proposal. The advantage is that you add no additional software and it *will* work. I disagree with you Bob. If you have used a dual-boot system - continued to use both Windows and Linux - you would see that you need to access files in a non-accessible partition ever so often. So, you re-boot into the other os, copy the file to a fat32 partition and re-boot again. I have done this *many* times. I think there is a *practical* need - for some users. Regards, Manoj -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of w9ya Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution Hey Manoj: I have always taken care of this by creating a separate fat32 partition for file sharing across the two systems. I then can move the relevant My Docs (et al) to this d: partition easily enough. As long as we are talking about a non-journaling filesystem, I can't see much of a *practical difference between this and your proposal. The advantage is that you add no additional software and it *will* work. Bob Finch w9ya On Wednesday 20 August 2003 09:53 am, Michael Lothian wrote: Hi I've already used this tool in XP (using the compatibility wizard) of course it didn't work to wellbut that's microsoft's compatibility wizard for you. I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. Well that's my 2 pennies worth Mike ;-) Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thanks a lot for your time! Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pierre Jarillon wrote: Le Mercredi 20 Août 2003 15:54, Frederic Crozat a écrit : We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. I agree too. But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! Then we should remove the NTFS ro driver from Mandrake, and also ask the Knoppix people to do the same. Being able to access file (even read-only) is just as bad as being able to write to files (dump the SAM from a Windows machine, crack a password, reboot and have admin rights). It allows to write on protected files. I remember such a software for windows95 which allows to acces to ext2. And that made Windows95 any *less* secure?? You could have formatted the partition, without a valid login on the machine!!. Sorry, the security argument isn't valid. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/RKwKrJK6UGDSBKcRArxsAJ0Q9KBOQ1woq8iYhQ/7ZA0SetnaawCgzHKn o9IoFRF6CSSzbQif/xkvSy0= =xXBJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Leon Brooks wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. IMHO, no, it's a crutch supporting your use of Windows. NTFS resizing is a migration tool. NTFS read support is a migration tool. vfat write support is a migration tool. Samba (client) is software supporting migratees, but this belongs with Cygwin, mingw, Dev-C++, OpenOffice.org for Windows, Gimp for Windows (all of which are more free BTW), none of which we ship. You ship loadlin, why not this? Loadlin can be used to bootstrap an installation on machines which have no other means of booting an installation. At least consider it for MandrakeClub, MandrakeClub doesn't really have anything setup for distributing anything but RPMs. IMHO, there should be a Windows compatability CD in the Powerpack/ProSuite, with the software I mentioned above and this driver instead. If people can access MandrakeClub, they can download it seperately. but I think it belongs in Contribs. It doesn't make the requirements, it is not free enough (similarly to freedos, which can't be compiled with free software). The rules (since there is not published policy) is something like: 1)it must be possible to build all packages in main with only packages in main 2)it must be possible to build all packages in contrib with only packages in main and contrib 3)all packages in main and contrib must be open-source To compile this driver, we would need the DDK, which is not open-source, thus cannot go in contrib, thus the driver would not satisfy (2). AFAIK everything else in main and contrib is done this way. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/RLBWrJK6UGDSBKcRAkMmAKCtk+FOyF1UwEA+kG8sSqC+2uly1ACfUUuJ otya9y+wtJF7AvN9+c92new= =7p24 -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed 20 Aug 2003 23:05, Manoj Joseph posted as excerpted below: But transferring files is not the only use. A Windows user usually has Windows only application that continue to be used even after switching to dual-boot. Those applications don't get thrown out - at least for a while... Getting those applications to access the ext2 partitions is *useful*. The reverse of that could work about as well, especially with the remount possibilities of newer kernels and mount, or symlink possibilities, for that matter. IOW, set up the FAT partition, creating subfolders as appropriate for the various points in the Linux fs tree you wish to share. Then remount the FAT partition at the appropriate places or point symlinks from the appropriate places as necessary under Linux, and VWALLA! you have files transparently accessible from Linux at their usual tree locations, AND accessible from MSWormOS. .. For a decade I labored under MSWormOS without the magic of symlinks. The first five years, I didn't know what I was missing. The next three, I could conceptualize it but didn't really understand the implications. The last two, I had discovered a utility that made it more or less possible -- at least for folders. Then I upgraded to Linux just under two years ago, and I'm STILL appreciating the amazing abilities of symlinks, tho I know they don't /always/ work /quite/ like the actual files would. IMO, many/most *ix users don't realize just how flexible they can be. as they offer solutions time and again for my weird partitioning and location dilemmas. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:08, Manoj Joseph wrote: Are you suggesting that writing an ext2 driver for windows is the wrong approach and writing an ntfs driver is the right one? If that is what you say, I disagree. IMHO *both* are required. Support on both sides (Windows and Linux) for native file systems of both sides would make life lot easier. One does *not* replace another. If you had to make do with one, a full-featured NTFS driver for Linux would be the best from a migrational PoV. Which system do you *want* to spend the most time in? Ext[23] from MS-Windows seems to being addressed at least three times, NTFS for Linux not quite once. It makes sense to me to put more effort into bringing the NTFS-for-Linux up to par - *if* you have a choice - than to polish the extN-for-MS-Windows driver. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Szakacsits Szabolcs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So at present Linux NTFS develpment is pretty in stalled, maintaince mode, for half, one year (e.g. I wrote the ntfs resizer over 1 year ago, it just recently started to be known, thanks to Mandrake). well, we really thank you for having written it :-) ntfs resize implementation (read: interfacing with ntfsresize) on drakx side was quite a lot simpler than writing ntfsresize in the first place. i still think that relocating files would be nice if it wasn't so hard to properly (read: with no risk at all) implement.
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 12:43, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Leon Brooks wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. IMHO, no, it's a crutch supporting your use of Windows. NTFS resizing is Shortsighted. For a personal user, migration can be a short term thing. For a decent sized company, it's very, very unlikely to be; a migrating environment will very likely be a mixed environment for a reasonable length of time. In this environment, such a driver makes sense to smooth the transition process. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed 20 Aug 2003 07:25, Buchan Milne posted as excerpted below: Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. What about PLF? I know they handle quite a bit of stuff that contrib can't, due to the licensing requirements. I don't quite understand all they do and where they draw the lines, but Manoj, if you haven't, consider investigating PLF, as it may be just the type of place for such a thing. As for the driver, I see a very practical use for it. However, one of the reasons I'm on Mandrake is because I support their software libre philosophy, and the others are correct -- given the situation with the DDK, this doesn't belong in the distrib itself. However, PLF? Maybe. I definitely see a practical use for the driver, altho again, the others are correct in that without 2K/XP support, it remains an interesting sourceforge type project, useful for those that need it, but not really practical for a distrib, even licensing concerns aside. That's my opinion, anyway. As well, the current FAT solution, with remounts and symlinks as necessary to integrate it transparently into the Linux fs tree, as I mentioned in my other post to the thread, is close enough to an equivalent solution practically, and a far cleaner software libre solution philosophically, that it'd be preferable here. Still, I could imagine myself using your driver for awhile, as a newbie, precisely for the purpose you stated -- as a migration aid. (I should mention that I upgraded directly off of Lose98, as the far lesser of two evils as compared to selling my soul to MS with the tradeoffs in privacy they demanded with XPrivacy, so the FAT32 solution was native and natural, here. Recently, for the first time in 6 months, I booted MSWormOS, to uninstall most of the programs and delete much of the MS-centric OS and programming data and etc. I'd accumulated over the decade I did windows, then shrunk the partition, leaving it there directly bootable on its own disk, should Cooker crash on me and I need a way to d/l a workable Linux install, again, or should I need to test a bug in hardware vs. drivers. Thus, it's finally relegated to a role very similar to monitor/rescue mode on my router, and my old DSL modem, in obscurity waiting in case the REAL OS dies, somehow, beyond easy direct resurrection... If I upgrade to a dual Athlon-64 solution as I'd LIKE to, later this year or early next, I'll probably then delete the last vestiges of the proprietary-ware that was my first and ten year computer home, NEVER to return.. As it is said.. When I was a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things. (Paul)) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 12:43, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Leon Brooks wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. IMHO, no, it's a crutch supporting your use of Windows. NTFS resizing is Shortsighted. I don't think so. For a personal user, migration can be a short term thing. For a decent sized company, it's very, very unlikely to be; a migrating environment will very likely be a mixed environment for a reasonable length of time. In this environment, such a driver makes sense to smooth the transition process. If you need to rely on files on workstations in an enterprsie of any size, it means that your file management strategy is flawed. The opportunity should be taken to centralise files on Linux file servers, serving files transparently to linux/Unix users (via NFS etc) and Windows users (via Samba), allowing you to centralise backups, ensuring that failure of a hard disk on a client does not lose critical data. During migration, linux machines may also need to acces data on Windows servers, which is what the samba-client software is for. Migration from a poorly architected Windows peer-to-peer network to a well architected Linux network is possible (since it's possible without large licensing fees), allowing you to consolidate data management. Sorry, with a network of 60 machines in two locations, running a mix of Windows and Linux (both OSs as dekstops and servers), I have never needed ext2/3 read support under Windows. Larger networks should have even less need for this. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/RL2IrJK6UGDSBKcRAnwCAJ9BMBHOnuHGNO5g8xoriWhr5cxV7ACguEy5 VtNZF/dgsVpJx6sBbplmo18= =GVcG -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thursday 21 August 2003 14:12, Duncan wrote: On Wed 20 Aug 2003 07:25, Buchan Milne posted as excerpted below: Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. What about PLF? I know they handle quite a bit of stuff that contrib can't, due to the licensing requirements. I don't quite understand all they do and where they draw the lines, but Manoj, if you haven't, consider investigating PLF, as it may be just the type of place for such a thing. As for the driver, I see a very practical use for it. However, one of the reasons I'm on Mandrake is because I support their software libre philosophy, and the others are correct -- given the situation with the DDK, this doesn't belong in the distrib itself. However, PLF? PLF only distribute rpm. Rpms of linux software, for mandrake. There is no reason to distribute windows program. if you want a cd of free software tools, you can check this website. http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/en/index.html or this one ( in french ) http://www.framasoft.net/ -- Mickaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Thierry Vignaud wrote: ntfs resize implementation (read: interfacing with ntfsresize) on drakx side was quite a lot simpler than writing ntfsresize in the first place. I remember, I was extremely impressed how fast it was integrated. It shows Mandrake has an excellent development infrastructure and great developers. There is only one (two) problems, we discussed already at that time. 1) If, for whatever reason, ntfs can not be resized or the potentially freed space is not enough to install Mandrake then diskdrake warns After resizing partition X, all data on this partition will be lost. Believe me, some people don't believe this and hope it will work out. Never. Partition gets resized but not ntfs so they can't boot Win anymore. At that time we discussed, this warning must be more explanatory, like Non-destructive partition resizing is not possible, if you continue you will lose all your data (but in English ;) however due to the string freeze for translation this couldn't be added at that time. Hopefully now? 2) Maybe printing the reason, why non-destrcutive partitioning isn't possible could help in cases. Occasionally these are happening: - inconsistent NTFS - user must run chkdsk (not from the gui but from the command line). - one of the many different inconsistent NTFS cases turned out to be a very rare but still valid NTFS and I added support for it (only in the development tree now) - NTFS having bad sectors - I had quite many reports, so I added support to resize these as well, but it's still in testing phase. - there are data at the end of the partition - turning off pagefile.sys and/or hibernation helped many people, the development version of ntfsresize can also tell what are those files. i still think that relocating files would be nice if it wasn't so hard to properly (read: with no risk at all) implement. Sure, incrementally, very slowly it's progressing, as time allows. I wrote a list what needs to be done here http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-ntfs-devm=105949711324625w=2 Even non-developers could help a lot, written on the above page how. Szaka
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu 21 Aug 2003 04:51, Adam Williamson posted as excerpted below: On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 12:43, Buchan Milne wrote: Leon Brooks wrote: That's a bit short, it's a useful migration tool. IMHO, no, it's a crutch supporting your use of Windows. Shortsighted. For a personal user, migration can be a short term thing. For a decent sized company, it's very, very unlikely to be; a migrating environment will very likely be a mixed environment for a reasonable length of time. In this environment, such a driver makes sense to smooth the transition process. Actually, no, it doesn't, in any decent sized company. Such a company shouldn't be doing dual-boots for the security reasons already hashed out in the thread. If they aren't doing dual boots, then all the data is either on a single-boot computer environment, where this shouldn't be needed, or on a network, where network access will be used instead of local disk fs drivers. There's no case for dual boot in the decent sized enterprise, except possibly in experimental non-production environments without any critical data on them anyway. Rather, it's the SOHO sized businesses, where essentially every employee with access is trusted and a dual boot system is therefore a manageable risk, and in non-business consumer installations, that a driver such as this might make sense. OTOH, one only has to look at the number of big companies that had serious problems with slammer and blaster to know what should be done from a security perspective and what is REALLY done are often two VERY different things.. How someone can spend $1000 on the core OS software license alone for an MSWormOS server (accurate call in this case), and not spend the $50 bucks for a simple NAPT based security appliance, or a few hundred $$ for something a bit fancier and higher capacity if necessary, to protect that investment, is beyond me, but it's obviously a common practice. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Thu 21 Aug 2003 03:30, Leon Brooks posted as excerpted below: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:46, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:30, Levi Ramsey wrote: Am I the only one who's been waiting for someone to muddy those waters with a beer whose recipe is GPL'd? ;o) Besides, have any of you ever met anyone at *all* who's come across free beer? :D I don't drink beer (don't like the flavour, and don't need intoxicants to have fun), but I have been offered beer for free on many occasions. Aye! Someone else that doesn't! g Last time I used the free as in beer analogy, I made it free as in Odoul's! (Odoul's is a non-alcoholic beer available here in the US, perhaps elsewhere? Here, NA legally means less than 1/2 of 1 percent, or one proof, alcohol, by volume, I believe, and NA beer is free from the alcohol tax and proof of age requirements of the A stuff.) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Szakacsits Szabolcs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2) Maybe printing the reason, why non-destrcutive partitioning isn't possible could help in cases. Occasionally these are happening: - inconsistent NTFS - user must run chkdsk (not from the gui but from the command line). - one of the many different inconsistent NTFS cases turned out to be a very rare but still valid NTFS and I added support for it (only in the development tree now) - NTFS having bad sectors - I had quite many reports, so I added support to resize these as well, but it's still in testing phase. - there are data at the end of the partition - turning off pagefile.sys and/or hibernation helped many people, the development version of ntfsresize can also tell what are those files. how do i know which pb occured?
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
I'd be more than willing to test out a XP native version at the NT4 one was unstable on XP sometimes causeing restarts Manoj Joseph wrote: That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, Can do. Will do *if* there is _a chance_ of making it to the distro. Volunteers for trying it out (beta testing) will help *a lot*. ..and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). The installation, IMHO is a breeze for NT (right now). ... And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. That is where beta testing comes in... :) I can't give a 99.99% guarantee if I do it all by myself. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:21 AM To: Frederic Crozat Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Frederic Crozat wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. Oh come on. There are other windoze programs on the disks as well. If suddenly a new fs for cdroms is developed, will mdk ship isos with an fs unreadable for windows? Lets make the README on the disk also in koffice format, we are only developing for linux anyway, right? Let's ask MS to ship rawwrite as well. This is about interoperability, and let's not make the same mistake as MS does (we are developing a proprietary office suite, why would we ship import filters for OO.org anyway?). I do not think we are doing a linux distro is a valid reason not to include it. It would look good in a press release (like ntfs resizing did) and it is a nice feature for people who dual-boot. That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. d.
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
I'd be more than willing to test out a XP native version at the NT4 one was unstable on XP sometimes causing restarts Hey that is great! :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Lothian Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution I'd be more than willing to test out a XP native version at the NT4 one was unstable on XP sometimes causeing restarts Manoj Joseph wrote: That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, Can do. Will do *if* there is _a chance_ of making it to the distro. Volunteers for trying it out (beta testing) will help *a lot*. ..and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). The installation, IMHO is a breeze for NT (right now). ... And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. That is where beta testing comes in... :) I can't give a 99.99% guarantee if I do it all by myself. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:21 AM To: Frederic Crozat Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Frederic Crozat wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. Oh come on. There are other windoze programs on the disks as well. If suddenly a new fs for cdroms is developed, will mdk ship isos with an fs unreadable for windows? Lets make the README on the disk also in koffice format, we are only developing for linux anyway, right? Let's ask MS to ship rawwrite as well. This is about interoperability, and let's not make the same mistake as MS does (we are developing a proprietary office suite, why would we ship import filters for OO.org anyway?). I do not think we are doing a linux distro is a valid reason not to include it. It would look good in a press release (like ntfs resizing did) and it is a nice feature for people who dual-boot. That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. d.
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. -- Frederic Crozat MandrakeSoft
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. But, it is not the prime aim of Mandrake Linux to provide missing features in a proprietary operating system. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. If it is possible to compile it on Windows with cygwin or mingw, then it may be possible to cross-compile it, but if it requires any MS SDK (besides the standard win32 headers available in mingw), it is not free software. Note that these issues apply to other win32 software, such as the CUPS native windows postscript driver. However, it would possibly be interesting to start a project to assemble all of this software. Oden had proposed something like this. IMHO, it would be worthwhile providing a Migration Kit in commercial boxed sets, which may include: - -cups Windows native drivers - -ext2 fs driver - -Windows clients for mserver (winmclient) - -Windows client for hylafax? - -Cygwin build of rcdrecord - -Entire Cygwin? - -Gimp? - -OpenOffice.org? - -Dev-C++ + mingw + wxWindows + ??? The problem is that this can get very big very quickly, and if taken too far distract users from linux to open-source software in Windows. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Q4TwrJK6UGDSBKcRArAeAKCwQZeQNzsQPEpVQ29pD2bQ3g85hwCfW2zJ b12gbEqHLA71uwml2GIfczY= =JFnr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On August 20, 2003 7:24 PM +0530, Frederic Crozat wrote: We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. Hi Frederic, Microsoft does not have a reason for assisting people in using a dual-boot system. Why should they?? :) Lots of linux users are not aware that such a driver *can* exist. I didn't until a month before I started working on this project. ;) I think *lots* of linux users would/could use a utility like this. I do see a reason for including it with a _linux distribution_. ;) Let me re-post what I wrote earlier. Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Regards, Manoj
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On August 20, 2003 7:56 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: But, it is not the prime aim of Mandrake Linux to provide missing features in a proprietary operating system. :) Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. It needs 1. a Windows compiler (compiler that can compile code for windows) 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. _Any_ windows driver would need the DDK. ;) Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Ainsi parlait Manoj Joseph : On August 20, 2003 7:56 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: But, it is not the prime aim of Mandrake Linux to provide missing features in a proprietary operating system. :) : Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. It needs 1. a Windows compiler (compiler that can compile code for windows) 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. I'm not sure you understand the sense of free software... We're refering to the license, not the price. -- Guillaume Rousse The best tag sales always have the least parking. -- Shelly's Rule
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. Free as in free beer or free speech ? -- Olivier Blin
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Buchan Milne wrote: - -Windows client for hylafax? This isn't required. Being a little creative, I put together a slick (and simple) way to do this. I am using WHFC (Windows HylaFAX client). This accepts postscript input, and talks directly to the HylaFAX server. Using the Generic (Windows) Postscript driver (downloaded from Adobe's website). Install configure WHFC first, then install the Generic Postscript driver. You need to set the port in the postscript driver to use WHFC port - and after that, like magic anything you print from windows (using the postscript driver), goes to WHFC and is sent as a fax. I haven't setup coverpages yet, and have only tested on Win2k, but do not believe there would be any surprises on other win systems (95, 98, me, xp). Simple, and cheap (no cost) solution. Now, would WHFC warrant being packaged with MDK (as an addon / utility maybe) extending HylaFAX services to Windows client desktops? Hmm, Interesting issue - packaging windows utilities that interact with an MDK server... Where do you draw the line? Cheers! S
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hi I've already used this tool in XP (using the compatibility wizard) of course it didn't work to wellbut that's microsoft's compatibility wizard for you. I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. Well that's my 2 pennies worth Mike ;-) Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thanks a lot for your time! Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Michael Scherer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wednesday 20 August 2003 16:54, Olivier Blin wrote: 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. Free as in free beer or free speech ? i never understood the difference between the two, it should be free as youpaynothing. or.. ? anyway, it's understandable: free beer means free of charge, there's no freedom background in getting free beer. free speech means freedom, well because that's one of the best short definition for freedom. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 09:54, Frederic Crozat wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. While this driver is outside the scope of Mandrake's distribution, you guys have been shipping CD's with half a dozen Windows programs on them for a number of years ;) Rob
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On 08/20/03 12:20:13, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: anyway, it's understandable: free beer means free of charge, there's no freedom background in getting free beer. free speech means freedom, well because that's one of the best short definition for freedom. Exactly why we (English speakers) should start using something like Software Libre and Software Gratis. Others will follow. Everyone copies Mandrake anyway. :-) Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Hey Manoj: I have always taken care of this by creating a separate fat32 partition for file sharing across the two systems. I then can move the relevant My Docs (et al) to this d: partition easily enough. As long as we are talking about a non-journaling filesystem, I can't see much of a *practical difference between this and your proposal. The advantage is that you add no additional software and it *will* work. Bob Finch w9ya On Wednesday 20 August 2003 09:53 am, Michael Lothian wrote: Hi I've already used this tool in XP (using the compatibility wizard) of course it didn't work to wellbut that's microsoft's compatibility wizard for you. I personally think it would be a great idea to include it on the mandrake cd as it makes life easier for people using duel boot. And personally I hate using FAT partitions just for transfering files. It would be great if you extended it onto all versions of Windows and even more partition formats not just the Ext ones. Well that's my 2 pennies worth Mike ;-) Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net What does this software do? --- - This software is a file system driver - for Windows NT - It facilitates access to ext2 partitions from Windows NT by *any* windows application. - The drive can be accessed just like a native (fat/ntfs) partition - through the regular windows APIs. - The partitions show up as regular drives - E:, F: etc. - The user does not 'see' the fat and the ext2 partitions as 'different'. - Functionality-wise, this driver is similar to the FAT FS driver that ships with windows. Note: This is not a user mode program like the ext2 explorer utilities out there which permit users to copy files to and from ext2 partitions. Who would need it? -- - This driver's primary target would be (WinNT+Linux) dual-boot systems. - *Lots* of home user installations are dual-boot. Very often WinNT+Linux. Like mine. ;) - Very useful to a Windows NT user who is shifting to Linux... Why include a Windows Utility with Linux?? -- - I think of this as a 'migration' utility rather than a _Windows Utility_. - Just as support for fat and ntfs(?) in Linux makes a dual-boot worth trying, the reverse (support for ext2 in NT) does make sense especially in the context of a dual boot system and a user transitioning from Windows to Linux. Is this Windows NT only? This driver presently works for Windows NT 4.0. If there is a demand, I could extend it to Windows 2000/XP/2003 and Ext3... Do you guys out there see any sense in my reasoning? Please feel free to comment. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thanks a lot for your time! Regards, Manoj
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 16:54, Olivier Blin wrote: 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. Free as in free beer or free speech ? i never understood the difference between the two, it should be free as youpaynothing. -- Michaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:26, Austin wrote: Exactly why we (English speakers) should start using something like Software Libre and Software Gratis. Others will follow. Everyone copies Mandrake anyway. :-) What's wrong with Open Source and Freeware? The Eskimos, so I'm told, have 16 words for snow, because it's important to them. -- Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed Aug 20 18:20 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: anyway, it's understandable: free beer means free of charge, there's no freedom background in getting free beer. Am I the only one who's been waiting for someone to muddy those waters with a beer whose recipe is GPL'd? ;o) -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly. Currently playing: Rush - Vapor Trails - Ceiling Unlimited Linux 2.4.21-3mdk 13:29:00 up 15 days, 22:47, 8 users, load average: 0.13, 0.41, 0.59
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:30, Levi Ramsey wrote: On Wed Aug 20 18:20 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: anyway, it's understandable: free beer means free of charge, there's no freedom background in getting free beer. Am I the only one who's been waiting for someone to muddy those waters with a beer whose recipe is GPL'd? ;o) Besides, have any of you ever met anyone at *all* who's come across free beer? :D -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 17:56, Dave Cotton wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:26, Austin wrote: Exactly why we (English speakers) should start using something like Software Libre and Software Gratis. Others will follow. Everyone copies Mandrake anyway. :-) What's wrong with Open Source and Freeware? The Eskimos, so I'm told, have 16 words for snow, because it's important to them. Urban myth. http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_297 -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Guillaume Rousse wrote: Ainsi parlait Manoj Joseph : On August 20, 2003 7:56 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: But, it is not the prime aim of Mandrake Linux to provide missing features in a proprietary operating system. :) : Well, the first question I have is, can this software be compiled from source using only free software available in Mandrake (main + contrib)? If not, then it can't really be included. It needs 1. a Windows compiler (compiler that can compile code for windows) 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. I'm not sure you understand the sense of free software... We're refering to the license, not the price. I do not like the free argument when talking about windows tools. I think even the autostart program on the cds cannot be compiled with a free compiler (isn't it done with delphi?). This driver cannot be rejected because of this I think. It is virtually impossible to ship anything free on windows. I will probably never use this, but I think it _is_ a valuable addition to the distro. Even if nobody uses it is looks like in a press release. In this case, being a little less extremistic could be a good thing. d.
RE: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Manoj Joseph wrote: Lots of linux users are not aware that such a driver *can* exist. I didn't until a month before I started working on this project. ;) Wrong approach. The root of the problem is the Linux NTFS write support isn't finished. Why? Lack of the NTFS information? No. The reason is nobody has the time to do it. Your effort would be MUCH MORE appreciated there, by millions of users. Szaka
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Buchan Milne wrote: This isn't required. Being a little creative, I put together a slick (and simple) way to do this. Sure, but your's doens't make it any easier (in terms of distributing it). Not sure what you mean, unless you are refering to the licensing (see next comment). I am using WHFC (Windows HylaFAX client). This accepts postscript input, and talks directly to the HylaFAX server. Using the Generic (Windows) Postscript driver (downloaded from Adobe's website). Which is proprietary software BTW ... WHFC is GPL. From their website (http://www.uli-eckhardt.de/whfc/): WHFC is a client for the network fax server HylaFAX 4.0/4.1 http://www.hylafax.org under Windows 95/98 and Windows NT/2000. It's now available under the GNU Public license. However, (and I haven't looked), although its free to download, I doubt the Adobe postscript driver is GPL (or other acceptable public) license. Install configure WHFC first, then install the Generic Postscript driver. You need to set the port in the postscript driver to use WHFC port - and after that, like magic anything you print from windows (using the postscript driver), goes to WHFC and is sent as a fax. If you could set up cover pages and stuff, this could be quite cool, and we could compete with win2k3 (which has a complete fax service solution). You can setup the cover pages (I just haven't gotten that far yet). I have been working the connection side of things first (make sure I can receive send faxes from windows). Now, would WHFC warrant being packaged with MDK (as an addon / utility maybe) extending HylaFAX services to Windows client desktops? Hmm, Interesting issue - packaging windows utilities that interact with an MDK server... Where do you draw the line? Exactly the issue at hand, but remember it can really only be done for totally free software. Yea, I know. WHFC fits that classification (GPL) so now if someone could dig-up a GPL windows (postscript) print driver, it could all be packaged as a fax solution. (But what would you call it? As its not Linux software, how would it fit into the distro? Any ideas?) Thanks, S
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On 08/20/03 15:46:23, Adam Williamson wrote: Besides, have any of you ever met anyone at *all* who's come across free beer? :D Exactly what I was just about to say. Where the hell is this magical land of free beer? Oh well, I'm happy enough to have electricity again. ;-) Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On 08/20/03 11:12:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will probably never use this, but I think it _is_ a valuable addition to the distro. Even if nobody uses it is looks like in a press release. In this case, being a little less extremistic could be a good thing. You are right... idealism doesn't sell a distro. Don't forget though that the CD's don't make the distro. Not everything on the CDs has to be free, but everything that is part of the downloadable distro should be as close to free as possible IMHO. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 magic wrote: Buchan Milne wrote: - -Windows client for hylafax? This isn't required. Being a little creative, I put together a slick (and simple) way to do this. Sure, but your's doens't make it any easier (in terms of distributing it). I am using WHFC (Windows HylaFAX client). This accepts postscript input, and talks directly to the HylaFAX server. Using the Generic (Windows) Postscript driver (downloaded from Adobe's website). Which is proprietary software BTW ... The alternative is the CUPS Windows postscript driver, which should actually allow for more interesting things (in combination with fax4cups etc etc), but it is in a similar position as this filesystem driver, in that it requires some MS SDK which is not free enough. But I may look at making a package for Club comm which works mostly out-the-box with CUPS/Samba. Install configure WHFC first, then install the Generic Postscript driver. You need to set the port in the postscript driver to use WHFC port - and after that, like magic anything you print from windows (using the postscript driver), goes to WHFC and is sent as a fax. If you could set up cover pages and stuff, this could be quite cool, and we could compete with win2k3 (which has a complete fax service solution). I haven't setup coverpages yet, and have only tested on Win2k, but do not believe there would be any surprises on other win systems (95, 98, me, xp). Simple, and cheap (no cost) solution. Now, would WHFC warrant being packaged with MDK (as an addon / utility maybe) extending HylaFAX services to Windows client desktops? Hmm, Interesting issue - packaging windows utilities that interact with an MDK server... Where do you draw the line? Exactly the issue at hand, but remember it can really only be done for totally free software. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Q7fvrJK6UGDSBKcRAhZdAKCFY6UkOj/dDzk1det5FN60HquRxwCeKFZ+ pGW8mHR/alKjlg6y04upvk8= =BXMd -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On 08/20/03 12:56:57, Dave Cotton wrote: What's wrong with Open Source and Freeware? They are possibly the two most misleading terms in software today. Open souce does not mean free, and freeware does not mean free. Both usually mean gratis, but not all open source software is gratis by definition. We use a package at school called Gaussian which we have the source code for, but we paid $10,000 for the privilege of comliling it. Also, many open source packages depend on non-free tools (java, previously QT, etc.). They are thus open source but not free/libre. And freeware just means gratis, and nothing more. There are many opensource and freeware packages we do/can not include in Mandrake. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Manoj Joseph wrote: On August 20, 2003 7:56 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: It needs 1. a Windows compiler (compiler that can compile code for windows) Well, if you have produced a binary using mingw on Windows, then it is of interest. If you used Borland, Watcom, MS VC etc etc it isn't. 2. Microsoft's DDK which is _free_. GPL? BSD? MIT? Or is not *really* free. _Any_ windows driver would need the DDK. ;) Of course, but is it free enough to make the distribution policy of open-source-only software? Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Q7brrJK6UGDSBKcRAo1SAJ0YXCfSz8AWpBaTY+f0jVAPkbf2+ACfVWAE y9s6sIjV1DbS51f5hK27BZc= =joBs -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:26, Austin wrote: Exactly why we (English speakers) should start using something like Software Libre and Software Gratis. Others will follow. Everyone copies Mandrake anyway. :-) What's wrong with Open Source and Freeware? Open Source is ok technically, not-so-ok politically (FSF against OSD). Freeware is bad because it is not accurate at all: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 3:46 pm, Adam Williamson honored me with this communique: On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 18:30, Levi Ramsey wrote: On Wed Aug 20 18:20 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: anyway, it's understandable: free beer means free of charge, there's no freedom background in getting free beer. Am I the only one who's been waiting for someone to muddy those waters with a beer whose recipe is GPL'd? ;o) Besides, have any of you ever met anyone at *all* who's come across free beer? :D I thought I had once, but I paid for it the next day ... -- I can bend minds with my spoon.
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Frederic Crozat wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. Oh come on. There are other windoze programs on the disks as well. If suddenly a new fs for cdroms is developed, will mdk ship isos with an fs unreadable for windows? Lets make the README on the disk also in koffice format, we are only developing for linux anyway, right? Let's ask MS to ship rawwrite as well. This is about interoperability, and let's not make the same mistake as MS does (we are developing a proprietary office suite, why would we ship import filters for OO.org anyway?). I do not think we are doing a linux distro is a valid reason not to include it. It would look good in a press release (like ntfs resizing did) and it is a nice feature for people who dual-boot. That said, IMO it should only be included if it also supports (at least) win2k and XP, and the author should make installation a breeze (preferably with a button in autostart program). And if it is 99.99% sure that this driver will not suddenly screw all my data. d.
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
On Wed Aug 20 17:45 -0400, Austin wrote: On 08/20/03 11:12:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will probably never use this, but I think it _is_ a valuable addition to the distro. Even if nobody uses it is looks like in a press release. In this case, being a little less extremistic could be a good thing. You are right... idealism doesn't sell a distro. Don't forget though that the CD's don't make the distro. Not everything on the CDs has to be free, but everything that is part of the downloadable distro should be as close to free as possible IMHO. Indeed, including these tools as part of the boxed sets or making them only available to Club members may be a useful compromise. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly. Currently playing: Rush - Vapor Trails - Out of the Cradle Linux 2.4.21-3mdk 19:30:01 up 16 days, 4:48, 8 users, load average: 0.51, 0.29, 0.14
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Le Mercredi 20 Août 2003 15:54, Frederic Crozat a écrit : On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:18:25 +0530, Manoj Joseph wrote: Hi, I have a piece of software that I would like to submit for consideration for inclusion in the Mandrake distribution. I wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was directed to make a presentation in this forum. The software is an ext2 file system driver for Windows NT 4.0. URL : http://winext2fsd.sourceforge.net We are doing a linux distribution.. You should ask Microsoft to ship this driver, not us.. I agree too. But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! It allows to write on protected files. I remember such a software for windows95 which allows to acces to ext2. Please don't spread this software ... and use reiserfs or better the new reiser4. -- Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/ Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org/
Re: [Cooker] Software submission for the Mandrake distribution
Pierre Jarillon wrote: I agree too. But I have another reason : such a software on the same computer is a fantastic SECURITY HOLE ! It allows to write on protected files. I remember such a software for windows95 which allows to acces to ext2. Please don't spread this software ... and use reiserfs or better the new reiser4. Sorry, but I disagree. Until it broke, I used a driver InstalledFileSystem on OS/2 to access ext2 partitions and exchange files. I still use such an IFS to access FAT32 partitions from OS/2. Back when OS/2 was my primary OS, this made Linux MUCH more usable for me (especially before the HPFS write support was stable). Nobody in their right mind sets up a multi-boot machine if it is really going to be multi-user on more than one of the OS's *AND* if users are going to be able to reboot it. Anybody who can reboot a multiboot machine is pretty much guaranteed to be the sysadmin for most (if not all) of the system images. For this reason, I'm not too concerned about cross-filesystem access ignoring permissions. I would echo the opinion of another poster that if the author has time to spare and the necessary expertise, it would be real nice to get the NTFS writable code working. However, I would not disparage or denigrate the work that he has done so far. For a Windows user looking to incorporate Linux, the ability to work initially in Windows using familiar tools will be perceived as a distinct advantage, even if he will have to rely heavily on dos2unix on the Linux side for text files.
