[Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Just curious how you know that the LP100 is accurate? -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:45 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Re： K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
LP100 is calibrated with NIST traceable reference. I have no question about the accuracy with LP100. I caliberate my W1 by using LP100. 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC 寄件人﹕ Robert Naumann w...@w5ov.com 收件人﹕ Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk; Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期﹕ 2009/11月/4 (三) 8:19:57 PM 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Just curious how you know that the LP100 is accurate? -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:45 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.99 1.8 80 1.99 1.8 60 1.99 1.8 40 1.95 1.8 30 1.97 1.6 20 1.97 1..4 17 1.97 1.3 15 1.96 1.2 12 1.96 1.5 10 1.96 1.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future .. Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
Hi Don, OK, on that line which is pin 14 on U3, there is only a couple mv but no pulses. The state of that line never changes. The other strange thing is the ENC-A data level only being 2v p-p verses ENC-B which is a full 5v p-p signal. Shouldn't both ENC data lines be a full 5v p-p TTL signal? Worst case, does Elecraft take in repairs direct? I could send in both display boards if that is the case. I sure wish I had test boards to swap in, to verify which board is causing the issues. I received the final amp rebuilding components the other day but I will wait to install them until after this dead VFO issue is repaired. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
After reading your table and comments again, I'm also curious why you are using the antenna tuner in these measurements? Shouldn't the internal ATU be OFF in order to evaluate the SWR meter? With the tuner on, the K3's SWR meter is showing the results of the tuner doing it's job - no? I would hope that the K3 SWR meter would read different in this case. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:45 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 K3 use increasing
Just a snippet from November RadCom, in the article about NFD and on page 43 in the section 'Equipment and Antennas' ... ... it appears that the long supremacy of the FT1000 series as an NFD rig has finally passed. The most commonly appearing transceiver in 2009 was the Elecraft K2/3 series, with nine in use. I know that for quite a few years, our club used a K2. So what more could one hope for as a recommendation for portable use? Well done Elecraft. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -Carl Sagan, astronomer and author (1934-1996) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
Mike, Do you have the 'scope vertical amp set to DC? This is logic level switching and the DC levels are significant, not the peak to peak variation. Yes, the levels must be above or below the switching thresholds. On the /ENC RD line, compare it to the levels at FP U3 pins 6 and/or 16 - it should be similar. To really tell the whole story, one would have to use 3 probes on the 'scope - trigger on the /ENC RD signal going low and observe the state of the ENC A and ENC B signals at that time. Elecraft does repairs, but only on complete kits. If this is the route you need to go, contact sa...@elecraft.com for further information and obtain an RSA number with instructions for packing and where to send it. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, on that line which is pin 14 on U3, there is only a couple mv but no pulses. The state of that line never changes. The other strange thing is the ENC-A data level only being 2v p-p verses ENC-B which is a full 5v p-p signal. Shouldn't both ENC data lines be a full 5v p-p TTL signal? Worst case, does Elecraft take in repairs direct? I could send in both display boards if that is the case. I sure wish I had test boards to swap in, to verify which board is causing the issues. I received the final amp rebuilding components the other day but I will wait to install them until after this dead VFO issue is repaired. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/03/09 07:36:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Of course Robert, the ATU was OFF. My typing error. Any measurements made with it ON would be meaningless. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:14:43 -0600, Robert Naumann wrote: After reading your table and comments again, I'm also curious why you are using the antenna tuner in these measurements? Shouldn't the internal ATU be OFF in order to evaluate the SWR meter? With the tuner on, the K3's SWR meter is showing the results of the tuner doing it's job - no? I would hope that the K3 SWR meter would read different in this case. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:45 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I suggest a reading of Larry's original paper on the design of the LP-100 to understand the heroic efforts needed to make these measurements with any accuracy. see: http://www.telepostinc.com/Files/phipps-1.pdf It should come as no surprise that the K3's built-in directional coupler lacks the directivity of the ones in Larry's LP-100, and directivity is extremely important in this application. For an example left to the reader to work out, measure a load with 20 dB return loss using a coupler with 20 dB directivity and see what the uncertainty is. Wes Stewart N7WS --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk wrote: From: Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 1:44 AM Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.99 1.8 80 1.99 1.8 60 1.99 1.8 40 1.95 1.8 30 1.97 1.6 20 1.97 1.4 17 1.97 1.3 15 1.96 1.2 12 1.96 1.5 10 1.96 1.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 K3 use increasing
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Just a snippet from November RadCom, in the article about NFD and on page 43 in the section 'Equipment and Antennas' ... ... it appears that the long supremacy of the FT1000 series as an NFD rig has finally passed. The most commonly appearing transceiver in 2009 was the Elecraft K2/3 series, with nine in use. I know that for quite a few years, our club used a K2. So what more could one hope for as a recommendation for portable use? How about the big one: World #1 Multi-Multi in CQWW CW. In 2008, that was 3X5A using seven K2s. Well done Elecraft. Yes indeed. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
Hi Don, OK, I can see those signals on pin 6 16 easily. Pin 14 is dead. It stays low. I am using DC coupling. ENC-A is only going to 2v and ENC-B goes to 5v. Both those data lines show data when the encoder is spun in either direction. Both lines will either rest at zero or a high state. But, ENC-A high is 2v not 5v. ENC-B high is 5v. Something is not right with ENC-A. If I pull the jumper wire from the encoder's ENC-A line and put the scope on the encoder's ENC-A terminal, I now get the 5v p-p signal that I would expect out of the encoder. So with that said, the MCU is not letting the ENC-A data line swing from 0-5v. It only allows a 0-2v swing which is not enough. Would you agree the MCU is faulty the U3 IC? Having two IC's giving troubles is rare but this radio suffered from severe spikes on the 14v line which shorted a electrolytic cap and one final transistor. BTW, I am copying this to the Elecraft reflector so it is in the database for someone else down the road. This is definitely a strange problem with this radio. I think we are getting closer to the solution. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Do you have the 'scope vertical amp set to DC? This is logic level switching and the DC levels are significant, not the peak to peak variation. Yes, the levels must be above or below the switching thresholds. On the /ENC RD line, compare it to the levels at FP U3 pins 6 and/or 16 - it should be similar. To really tell the whole story, one would have to use 3 probes on the 'scope - trigger on the /ENC RD signal going low and observe the state of the ENC A and ENC B signals at that time. Elecraft does repairs, but only on complete kits. If this is the route you need to go, contact sa...@elecraft.com for further information and obtain an RSA number with instructions for packing and where to send it. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, on that line which is pin 14 on U3, there is only a couple mv but no pulses. The state of that line never changes. The other strange thing is the ENC-A data level only being 2v p-p verses ENC-B which is a full 5v p-p signal. Shouldn't both ENC data lines be a full 5v p-p TTL signal? Worst case, does Elecraft take in repairs direct? I could send in both display boards if that is the case. I sure wish I had test boards to swap in, to verify which board is causing the issues. I received the final amp rebuilding components the other day but I will wait to install them until after this dead VFO issue is repaired. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
Mike, Yes, it sounds like you have it adequately analyzed and I do agree with your conclusions. FP U3 has a bad pin 14 output and the MCU input for ENC A also has a problem and is dragging the signal down. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, I can see those signals on pin 6 16 easily. Pin 14 is dead. It stays low. I am using DC coupling. ENC-A is only going to 2v and ENC-B goes to 5v. Both those data lines show data when the encoder is spun in either direction. Both lines will either rest at zero or a high state. But, ENC-A high is 2v not 5v. ENC-B high is 5v. Something is not right with ENC-A. If I pull the jumper wire from the encoder's ENC-A line and put the scope on the encoder's ENC-A terminal, I now get the 5v p-p signal that I would expect out of the encoder. So with that said, the MCU is not letting the ENC-A data line swing from 0-5v. It only allows a 0-2v swing which is not enough. Would you agree the MCU is faulty the U3 IC? Having two IC's giving troubles is rare but this radio suffered from severe spikes on the 14v line which shorted a electrolytic cap and one final transistor. BTW, I am copying this to the Elecraft reflector so it is in the database for someone else down the road. This is definitely a strange problem with this radio. I think we are getting closer to the solution. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Do you have the 'scope vertical amp set to DC? This is logic level switching and the DC levels are significant, not the peak to peak variation. Yes, the levels must be above or below the switching thresholds. On the /ENC RD line, compare it to the levels at FP U3 pins 6 and/or 16 - it should be similar. To really tell the whole story, one would have to use 3 probes on the 'scope - trigger on the /ENC RD signal going low and observe the state of the ENC A and ENC B signals at that time. Elecraft does repairs, but only on complete kits. If this is the route you need to go, contact sa...@elecraft.com for further information and obtain an RSA number with instructions for packing and where to send it. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, on that line which is pin 14 on U3, there is only a couple mv but no pulses. The state of that line never changes. The other strange thing is the ENC-A data level only being 2v p-p verses ENC-B which is a full 5v p-p signal. Shouldn't both ENC data lines be a full 5v p-p TTL signal? Worst case, does Elecraft take in repairs direct? I could send in both display boards if that is the case. I sure wish I had test boards to swap in, to verify which board is causing the issues. I received the final amp rebuilding components the other day but I will wait to install them until after this dead VFO issue is repaired. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.49/2480 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home:
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Wes and all, It is not unreasonable to expect some frequency dependency in the detection diodes as well. The tuner will function properly in any case - it tunes for the lowest SWR no matter what the exact value of that SWR may be. Now, if the SWR = 1.0 point was not correct, that would say there may be a problem with the tuning. Those wanting a more accurate SWR indication of the antenna side may want to consider the new Elecraft W2 as well. 73, Don W3FPR Wes Stewart wrote: I suggest a reading of Larry's original paper on the design of the LP-100 to understand the heroic efforts needed to make these measurements with any accuracy. see: http://www.telepostinc.com/Files/phipps-1.pdf It should come as no surprise that the K3's built-in directional coupler lacks the directivity of the ones in Larry's LP-100, and directivity is extremely important in this application. For an example left to the reader to work out, measure a load with 20 dB return loss using a coupler with 20 dB directivity and see what the uncertainty is. Wes Stewart N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] K2 - CONTROL PANNEL FREEZE UP (K7CJA)
Don: I sent the txt below a while back but it must have gotten lost in cyberspace. In addition to the measurements below, when I turn on the K2 now I get the full Elecraft in the LCD, a few clicks from relays and the speaker as well as a steady medium frequency tone. Nothing works on the pannel. BEGIN EMAIL I disconnected everything and put it aside for a while. Now I am back to it. The measurements are as follows: Q1 Collector: 6.77 (Fluctuates, The first time I measured it was 7.6) Q2 Collector: 7.3 (Fluctuates) Q3 Gate: .003 Q4 Gate: 7.25 Shorted Q3? How would it have shorted. I do not see anything that would have caused the short. In addition, once this issue is sorted out, I would like to go through a complete tune up procedure. I have the following upgrades in the K2 along with the KAT/KPA 100 in a separate enclosure: K60XV (No longer shows up on the LCD), KIO2, K160RX, KNB2, KAT2, KSB2, KBT2 Is there a stem to stern check-up procedure that I can follow? As always, thanks for your assistance. Chris Amyes K7CJA Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: Chris, Keep that dummy load attached, and set the power knob to zero. That K2 is going into transmit, so you want to protect the PA from harm while figuring out what is going on. Remove anything that may be plugged into either the paddle jack or the mic jack and try again. If it still goes into transmit, remove the top cover and on the Control Board, check the collector of Q1 - it will be between 7.5 and 8 volts if the K2 is in transmit. Also, check the collector of Q2, which should be at 7.5 to 8 volts during receive, If both Q1 and Q2 have voltage on the collector, it is trying to transmit and receive at the same time, so keep the power on intervals short if that condition is present. Assuming you have the 8 volts at the collector of Q1 but near zero at the collector of Q2 (proper for transmit state), then check pins 29 and 30 of Control Board U6 (the microprocessor) - both should be higher than 4 volts (close to 5 volts). If one or both are at a low voltage, there is something holding the dot or dash lines low, and you should be able to locate it with an ohmmeter and visual inspection for solder bridges or stray wire clippings. If you have both transmit and receive 8 volt lines (collectors of CB Q1 and Q2), then check the gates of CB Q3 and Q4. For receive, the gate of Q4 should be high (4.5 to 5 volts), and the gate of Q3 should be near zero. If these last conditions are true, the microprocessor outputs for transmit and receive are correct and the most likely failure is a shorted Q3. Let us know the results of those tests. 73, Don W3FPR CJA wrote: I have a K2 with a KPA100 and KAT100 in a separate enclosure. It had been working on my lossey loop but I decided to try a ground mounted Hi-Q 4/160. After connecting the antenna, I began trying to tune to the various bands. It seemed to be tuning to a low SWR when the control panel just froze up. The VFO would not change the freq and none of the buttons functioned. I turned it off and on several times and came up with the full elecraft in the LCD and then the last freq I was on. The control panel was still frozen. I then tried to reset. That did not work. Now it just goes through the POST (full elecraft in the LCD) and seems to go into transmit (dummy load connected) with a high pitched tone and hangs there. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 73, Chris Amyes, K7CJA No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.1/2407 - Release Date: 10/01/09 06:34:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K2-CONTROL-PANNEL-FREEZE-UP-K7CJA-tp3749758p3945996.html Sent from the [K2] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] W2 Wattmeter
Hi all, I might be having a blonde moment but I am looking at the W2 and it seems to me that with 2 sensors, it can act as an antenna switch too. Is this the case or am I missing something? 73 Ian -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 http://www.amateurradiotraining.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Hi Stewart, The KAT3, like all wide-range ATUs, has significant stray reactance, especially on the higher bands. When you tuned it into 50 ohms, you created an L-network on each band that tunes out this reactance--at that one impedance. In your test, the KAT3 is between the K3's SWR bridge and the LP100, so the two bridges are looking at different points in the network. So changing the load Z to 25 ohms affects the two readings differently. The disproportionate error on 20-15 m reflects the nature of the KAT3's strays. On these bands, the stray-cancellation values that it automatically finds results in an L-network. On still higher bands, it may look more like a Pi network, which could explain why your SWR error delta is lower on 6 meters. On the lower bands, the strays are less significant, so the readings match. If you removed the KAT3, the readings would be in closer agreement. 73, Wayne N6KR http://www.elecraft.com On Nov 4, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk wrote: Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 trouble shooting
OK, I will contact the Elecraft Parts department and see how to order these two components. Thank you again and lets hope this is the final answer to this damaged K2. I will post when and what all was required to repair this radio on this reflector so it may help others if they run into this sort of issue. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Yes, it sounds like you have it adequately analyzed and I do agree with your conclusions. FP U3 has a bad pin 14 output and the MCU input for ENC A also has a problem and is dragging the signal down. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, I can see those signals on pin 6 16 easily. Pin 14 is dead. It stays low. I am using DC coupling. ENC-A is only going to 2v and ENC-B goes to 5v. Both those data lines show data when the encoder is spun in either direction. Both lines will either rest at zero or a high state. But, ENC-A high is 2v not 5v. ENC-B high is 5v. Something is not right with ENC-A. If I pull the jumper wire from the encoder's ENC-A line and put the scope on the encoder's ENC-A terminal, I now get the 5v p-p signal that I would expect out of the encoder. So with that said, the MCU is not letting the ENC-A data line swing from 0-5v. It only allows a 0-2v swing which is not enough. Would you agree the MCU is faulty the U3 IC? Having two IC's giving troubles is rare but this radio suffered from severe spikes on the 14v line which shorted a electrolytic cap and one final transistor. BTW, I am copying this to the Elecraft reflector so it is in the database for someone else down the road. This is definitely a strange problem with this radio. I think we are getting closer to the solution. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Do you have the 'scope vertical amp set to DC? This is logic level switching and the DC levels are significant, not the peak to peak variation. Yes, the levels must be above or below the switching thresholds. On the /ENC RD line, compare it to the levels at FP U3 pins 6 and/or 16 - it should be similar. To really tell the whole story, one would have to use 3 probes on the 'scope - trigger on the /ENC RD signal going low and observe the state of the ENC A and ENC B signals at that time. Elecraft does repairs, but only on complete kits. If this is the route you need to go, contact sa...@elecraft.com for further information and obtain an RSA number with instructions for packing and where to send it. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, OK, on that line which is pin 14 on U3, there is only a couple mv but no pulses. The state of that line never changes. The other strange thing is the ENC-A data level only being 2v p-p verses ENC-B which is a full 5v p-p signal. Shouldn't both ENC data lines be a full 5v p-p TTL signal? Worst case, does Elecraft take in repairs direct? I could send in both display boards if that is the case. I sure wish I had test boards to swap in, to verify which board is causing the issues. I received the final amp rebuilding components the other day but I will wait to install them until after this dead VFO issue is repaired. Mike WE0H Don Wilhelm wrote: Mike, Other than the wiring paths for ENC A and ENC B signals through the connectors and to CB U6 pins 8 and 16, there is nothing else for these two signals. However, for the encoder to be read, the /ENC RD signal must be at a low level and that signal is generated from FP U3 pin 14. Look for low going pulses with your scope. If they are not present, FP U3 may be at fault. 73, Don W3FPR Mike-WE0H wrote: Hi Don, Ref K2 #6698: I tried a new encoder but it did nothing different than the original encoder. Tonight I see that ENC-A is only 2v p-p while ENC-B is 5v p-p. This is measured right on the encoder terminals and on the U6 MCU chip. I don't see any resistor network pull ups on these lines. Do you think the MCU could have gotten hurt with the spike on the 14v VCC line that shorted the one final and that VCC filter cap? I see data on both ENC lines when I spin the encoder. The Encoder VCC is a solid 5.0vdc. All other functions work on this radio except anything where I need to turn the encoder to access something in a menu or change anything. The radio receives fine on whatever the display freq is and transmits fine on the same freq on all bands. I just can't change any VFO digit other than the far right digit, or if I spin the encoder shaft left right, it will slowly increase the displayed freq but not go down. Mike WE0H __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] W2 Wattmeter
You know, I realised as soon as I pressed send! :) 73 Ian 2009/11/4 Dick Dievendorff die...@comcast.net You're missing something. The sensors each have an RF input, an RF output, and a CAT-5 cable to the W2 main unit. You put the sensors where it makes sense to put RF cables. If you get two sensors, you can connect them in-line with two different radios, one sensor per radio. You can use the front panel W2 switch to select which sensor to activate the LED display. 73 de Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Maude Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:50 AM To: Elecraft List Subject: [Elecraft] W2 Wattmeter Hi all, I might be having a blonde moment but I am looking at the W2 and it seems to me that with 2 sensors, it can act as an antenna switch too. Is this the case or am I missing something? 73 Ian -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455 http://www.amateurradiotraining.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] K2 - CONTROL PANNEL FREEZE UP (K7CJA)
Chris, The email may have arrived while I was on vacation a week ago - yes, I missed it.. Are you certain you measured the gate of Q3 and Q4? Those voltages are normal at the drains of Q3 and Q4 for a K2 in transmit. You can check U6 pin 27 (5 volts during transmit, 0 during receive) and pin 28 (5 volts during receive and 0 during transmit). If my guess is correct and you actually measured the drains of Q3 and Q4, then you do have a problem with Q2 or its associated resistors in RP1. You should not have 7 volts on *both* Q1 and Q2 collectors (if you measured the emitters instead, you will find 7 to 8 volts on both. Put that aside for a moment (that information will not solve your primary problem). Does the tone sound anything like sidetone? What I am getting to is that - from all information I have right now, that K2 is going into transmit right after a power on. That will make the buttons inactive, and you first need to find out what is causing it to transmit after turning it on. Once that is solved, you can go on to other things. Keep a dummy load connected and the power knob turned down to zero. Measure both U6 pins 29 and 30. Both should be at or near 5 volts - if either of them are close to zero, something is keying your K2 and you need to find the source. OTOH, if both are at 5 volts, the K2 should not be going into transmit (unless the TUNE button is stuck on). If all those things are good, I will recommend (I don't do this often) that you do a Master Reset - hold buttons 4, 5, and 6 in while turning the K2 power on. You will know the reset has been successful if you see Info 201 in the display for a brief time and after that ELECraFT is displayed. You on the complete check-out - look on my website www.w3fpr.com for the K2 alignment document - that is the alignment instructions extracted from the manual. After completing those alignments, then go to the K2 Dial Calibration article there and do all the steps including the filter alignment - the Master Reset will have set all your filter and menu setting back to factory default (that is why I do not often recommend a Master Reset, and it rarely solves anything). Make certain your K60XV is properly plugged into its headers and check the secondary menu to be certain the menu parameter for D19 is set to Y. 73, Don W3FPR CJA wrote: Don: I sent the txt below a while back but it must have gotten lost in cyberspace. In addition to the measurements below, when I turn on the K2 now I get the full Elecraft in the LCD, a few clicks from relays and the speaker as well as a steady medium frequency tone. Nothing works on the pannel. BEGIN EMAIL I disconnected everything and put it aside for a while. Now I am back to it. The measurements are as follows: Q1 Collector: 6.77 (Fluctuates, The first time I measured it was 7.6) Q2 Collector: 7.3 (Fluctuates) Q3 Gate: .003 Q4 Gate: 7.25 Shorted Q3? How would it have shorted. I do not see anything that would have caused the short. In addition, once this issue is sorted out, I would like to go through a complete tune up procedure. I have the following upgrades in the K2 along with the KAT/KPA 100 in a separate enclosure: K60XV (No longer shows up on the LCD), KIO2, K160RX, KNB2, KAT2, KSB2, KBT2 Is there a stem to stern check-up procedure that I can follow? As always, thanks for your assistance. Chris Amyes K7CJA Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: Chris, Keep that dummy load attached, and set the power knob to zero. That K2 is going into transmit, so you want to protect the PA from harm while figuring out what is going on. Remove anything that may be plugged into either the paddle jack or the mic jack and try again. If it still goes into transmit, remove the top cover and on the Control Board, check the collector of Q1 - it will be between 7.5 and 8 volts if the K2 is in transmit. Also, check the collector of Q2, which should be at 7.5 to 8 volts during receive, If both Q1 and Q2 have voltage on the collector, it is trying to transmit and receive at the same time, so keep the power on intervals short if that condition is present. Assuming you have the 8 volts at the collector of Q1 but near zero at the collector of Q2 (proper for transmit state), then check pins 29 and 30 of Control Board U6 (the microprocessor) - both should be higher than 4 volts (close to 5 volts). If one or both are at a low voltage, there is something holding the dot or dash lines low, and you should be able to locate it with an ohmmeter and visual inspection for solder bridges or stray wire clippings. If you have both transmit and receive 8 volt lines (collectors of CB Q1 and Q2), then check the gates of CB Q3 and Q4. For receive, the gate of Q4 should be high (4.5 to 5 volts), and the gate of Q3 should be near zero. If these last conditions are true, the microprocessor outputs for transmit and receive are correct
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
The KAT3 cannot be completely removed from the circuit. When it is in BYPASS it uses very small L/C values to attempt to compensate for its own strays. There is not an actual bypass relay. 73, Wayne N6KR On Nov 4, 2009, at 6:10 AM, Stewart wrote: Of course Robert, the ATU was OFF. My typing error. Any measurements made with it ON would be meaningless. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:14:43 -0600, Robert Naumann wrote: After reading your table and comments again, I'm also curious why you are using the antenna tuner in these measurements? Shouldn't the internal ATU be OFF in order to evaluate the SWR meter? With the tuner on, the K3's SWR meter is showing the results of the tuner doing it's job - no? I would hope that the K3 SWR meter would read different in this case. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:45 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I don't have the KAT3, i use an external homemade tuner and a cheap swr-meter between it and the K3. Don't know how accurate the swr-meter is, but i notice that the K3 shows 1.1:1 while the external meter still reads worse. Fiddling with the controls of the tuner settles the needle on the external meter, while the readout on the K3's display stays unchanged. I posted this to the list some weeks ago, but nobody noticed. -- 73, DM4iM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
What power level were you using? And what type of external bridge? The K3's SWR bridge has two sensitivity ranges. If you have power set to 12 W or lower, the higher-sensitivity range is used. If you have power set above 12 W, the lower-sensitivity range is used. This is necessary to prevent heating of the transformers in the bridge. SWR accuracy will be best when you're in the upper part of each range. So, for example, it'll be more accurate at 12 W than 1 W, and more accurate at 100 W than at 13 W. But accuracy should still be reasonable even in the lower end of the range. Your external bridge may have better sensitivity at the particular power range you were using. 73, Wayne N6KR On Nov 4, 2009, at 9:13 AM, DM4iM wrote: I don't have the KAT3, i use an external homemade tuner and a cheap swr-meter between it and the K3. Don't know how accurate the swr-meter is, but i notice that the K3 shows 1.1:1 while the external meter still reads worse. Fiddling with the controls of the tuner settles the needle on the external meter, while the readout on the K3's display stays unchanged. I posted this to the list some weeks ago, but nobody noticed. -- 73, DM4iM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Hi Wayne, Thank you for your prompt and informative replies. When I first ran my experiment the results I got rather surprised me. Now you have explained the fact that the KAT3 is never really out of circuit even in BYPASS mode, and is seeing strays which the LP-100 does not, clarifies the situation. Most of the time, because of my antenna setup I use a fully balanced external tuner, and the exact SWR presented to the K3 is shown on the LP-100. Of course, as others have pointed out the value of SWR measured is immaterial, as the KAT3 will try and adjust to 1:1 when it is selected. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:50:35 -0800, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hi Stewart, The KAT3, like all wide-range ATUs, has significant stray reactance, especially on the higher bands. When you tuned it into 50 ohms, you created an L-network on each band that tunes out this reactance--at that one impedance. In your test, the KAT3 is between the K3's SWR bridge and the LP100, so the two bridges are looking at different points in the network. So changing the load Z to 25 ohms affects the two readings differently. The disproportionate error on 20-15 m reflects the nature of the KAT3's strays. On these bands, the stray-cancellation values that it automatically finds results in an L-network. On still higher bands, it may look more like a Pi network, which could explain why your SWR error delta is lower on 6 meters. On the lower bands, the strays are less significant, so the readings match. If you removed the KAT3, the readings would be in closer agreement. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Slight clarification. I said: The K3's SWR bridge has two sensitivity ranges. If you have power set to 12 W or lower, the higher-sensitivity range is used. If you have power set above 12 W, the lower-sensitivity range is used. This is necessary to prevent heating of the transformers in the bridge. The transformers in the bridge use the largest coupling ratio possible, consistent with not overheating when used at max power output (100-110 W). SWR measurement accuracy is better at higher power, in general, because it overcomes forward-bias voltage variation across the detector diodes. The sensitivity scaling occurs at *DC*, after the op-amps that amplify the forward and reflected voltages. The higher-sensitivity range, used at 12 W and below, has better noise immunity and better granularity feeding the A-to-D converter. There are two additional factors contributing to SWR measurement accuracy. (1) Some interpolation is done in firmware. (2) There's a small pre-bias (DC) on the bridge to compensate it at lower power levels. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] No output in DATA A
There were a couple of posts about this a few days ago but they didn't seem to provoke much comment. Yesterday I switched on and tried to call someone and there was no output. The TX sound level from the speaker (MON was set to about 4) was barely audible. After examining various software settings and pushing a few buttons on the K3 the next transmission worked, so I put it down to operator error. Just now I set up the K3 to do some WSPR on 40m and again there was no output. The audio tone was very weak though pushing METER and the level was showing 4-5 bars of ALC like it should. This time I remembered the earlier posts that suggested the problem disappeared when you changed band or mode. The K3 was already on 40m DATA A when I switched on so all I had touched apart from the POWER button was the VFO. So I changed mode to LSB and back to DATA and lo and behold on the next transmission cycle a signal was generated. I think a bug has crept in during one of the recent updates. I'm running 3.47/2.41 at the moment. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/No-output-in-DATA-A-tp3946876p3946876.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. 73, Eric Stewart wrote: Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
'bout 2 feet. 73 Stewart On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:53:25 -0800, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. 73, Eric __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I've noticed that too, but never though much of it since the external meter and the K3 agree at 1:1. Above 1:1, the K3's SWR indication reads lower than the external meter at 100 watts on the lower frequency bands (80, 160) but agrees well with the external meter on the higher frequency bands. The K3 and external meters agree well at 10 watts on all bands. For example, I set up my external tuner for an SWR of 1.6:1 on the external meter and transmit 10 watts on 80 M and the K3 agrees with the external meter just fine, but if I crank up the POWER while in tune I'll see the SWR indicated on the K3 drop to 1.0:1 when the KPA100 kicks in. At 100 watts out, the K3 indicates 1.1:1 while the external meter indicates 1.6:1 at all times. Adjusting the tuner for minimum SWR brings its meter and the K3 down to an indicated 1:1. I have about 18 inches of cable between the tuner and the K3. If it was going to have a significant effect, I'd expect it to show up on the higher frequencies, not the lower frequencies. Besides, all is well at 10 watts on all bands. It's a non-issue to me since all I care about is knowing I have the antenna system well matched to the K3. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- What power level were you using? And what type of external bridge? The K3's SWR bridge has two sensitivity ranges. If you have power set to 12 W or lower, the higher-sensitivity range is used. If you have power set above 12 W, the lower-sensitivity range is used. This is necessary to prevent heating of the transformers in the bridge. SWR accuracy will be best when you're in the upper part of each range. So, for example, it'll be more accurate at 12 W than 1 W, and more accurate at 100 W than at 13 W. But accuracy should still be reasonable even in the lower end of the range. Your external bridge may have better sensitivity at the particular power range you were using. 73, Wayne N6KR On Nov 4, 2009, at 9:13 AM, DM4iM wrote: I don't have the KAT3, i use an external homemade tuner and a cheap swr-meter between it and the K3. Don't know how accurate the swr-meter is, but i notice that the K3 shows 1.1:1 while the external meter still reads worse. Fiddling with the controls of the tuner settles the needle on the external meter, while the readout on the K3's display stays unchanged. I posted this to the list some weeks ago, but nobody noticed. -- 73, DM4iM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Try using a double male connector to put the two SWR sensors right next to each other and repeat the measurement. At the higher freq's, even 2 ft of coax can change the indicated SWR, especially when the actual SWR is 1.9:1 like yours. I regularly see this when driving an amplifier with a non 1:1 SWR with any of my rigs. 73, Eric Stewart wrote: 'bout 2 feet. 73 Stewart On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:53:25 -0800, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
But if you: 1. Connect the antenna directly to the K3, ANT1 say, with KAT3 in bypass and note the SWR reading on the K3, 2. Then disconnect the antenna from ANT 1 and instead connect the external SWR indicator to ANT 1 with a length of coax, 3. Then connect the antenna to the external SWR indicator, should you not get a reading on the external indicator that you can properly compare with the one you noted in step 1? If so, what do people find? 73 to all Geoff G3UCK - Original Message - From: Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk To: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Wayne Burdick wa...@elecraft.com Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise 'bout 2 feet. 73 Stewart On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:53:25 -0800, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. 73, Eric __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: 160m SWR issue
Hi Brian, The TopBand query that you reference had a situation that may or may not apply to your setup. He only had 15' of feedline between the Tx and the antenna. Weird things can happen. Phil's situation was somewhat remedied by adding a longer run of coax. I've had my share of issues on 160 as well, even without running an amp, because the base of my antenna is VERY close to the transmitter (30'). Several things cleared up my issues including better matching at the antenna, and isolation style 1:1 current choke and partially buried feedline. You can't count on the K3 (or K2) SWR reading 1:1 or some other low value. You really need to see what the impedance of the antenna is in real and imaginary terms. Several antenna measuring devices and the LP-100 will tell you this and you can better match the antenna. You're not lost if you don't have access to such tools, often a good choke balun will moderate some of the problem, if not eliminate it altogether. See Jim, K9YC, RFI and choke tutorials. 160 presents some interesting technical challenges, but they aren't are draconian as some would like you to believe. Hope this helps. 73, Julius Brian Machesney wrote: I'm feeding a double L antenna on 160m (visualize a vertical dipole with the top and bottom legs bent to form something like a capital C and fed in the middle of the vertical leg). The SWR bridge on the K3 shows 1:1 SWR, but when I fire up my Alpha 91B, I see significant reflected power. I recently saw a post on the topband reflector from another K3 owner whose 160m output power is being reduced from 100W to 50W by the K3 even though the SWR reads 1:1 on the K3's internal SWR bridge. Has anyone else seen this or have an explanation for it? -- 73 -- Brian -- K1LI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-160m-SWR-issue-tp3940644p3947473.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] I did use K3 in 160 meter contest
Ken, Congrats and we sure appreciate you putting on the tough ND multiplier! See ya in da 160 piles! 73, Julius n2wn Kenneth A. Christiansen-2 wrote: I was in 1st place single operator low power cw North Dakota and #7 10th Area. I got into the wrong log the other day and thought I did it with the IC-753 PRO which I in fact did in 2008. In 2009 I had my K3/100 running at 50 watts. I had 3 pages of MixW log in 2009 and only 1 page in 2008. That shows how the K3 has improved 160 and every time I turn on the 746 on 160 I get to wonder how I ever worked anyone. 73 Ken Christiansen W0CZ w...@i29.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/I-did-use-K3-in-160-meter-contest-tp3941061p3947487.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Stewart stew...@baker.nildram.co.uk wrote: Of course, as others have pointed out the value of SWR measured is immaterial, as the KAT3 will try and adjust to 1:1 when it is selected. I don't think I would go so far as to say SWR is immaterial. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I've been noticing some apparently anomalies in this area too, for example... I have two dummy loads - one is a 2kW rated PalStar, which doesn't appear to be exactly 50ohms (but close enough for usual purposes), and a Bird Termaline, which is mil-spec 50ohms (and shows as such on a sweep analyser), 150W rated. With 100W at 3520kHz, into the Bird, my LP-100A shows 1.00:1, and the K3 shows 1.0:1. Into the PalStar, the LP-100A shows 1.20:1, but the K3 still shows 1.0:1. I'm using the same feedline arrangement in both cases (i.e. I unplug the cable from one load and plug it into the other), and I do NOT have the KAT3 installed. I've tried different feedline arrangements too (including a short one between the K3 and the LP-100A coupler), and the results seem to be consistent. ~Iain / N6ML On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. 73, Eric Stewart wrote: Hi, Now traffic on the new K3 Macro functions has somewhat died down, I would like to raise again the issue of the K3's SWR measurement accuracy. I did some tests using dummy loads and a LP-100 meter as follows. The dummy load is a precision 100W one which I measured with a VNA and has a VSWR of 1.03 from 1 to 30 Mhz. To simulate a 2:1 VSWR I used another dummy load (not quite as good) in parallel. The K3 output was from ANT1 using the internal ATU. The ATU was automatically tuned to 1:1 on all bands. The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.99 1.8 80 1.99 1.8 60 1.99 1.8 40 1.95 1.8 30 1.97 1.6 20 1.97 1.4 17 1.97 1.3 15 1.96 1.2 12 1.96 1.5 10 1.96 1.4 As can be seen my K3 SWR indication consistently under reads. However, it really gets bad on 20,17 15. From previous replies I understand that this under reading would be compensated for in the firmware, sometime in the future . Is this still on the list of problems to be addressed ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: I It's a non-issue to me since all I care about is knowing I have the antenna system well matched to the K3. I have to parrot the non issue part of this. I have several SWR bridges/meters. They rarely agree about anything. Accuracy is probably no better than +/- 5% AT BEST on any of them, and there are many other factors that come into play. So you can easily be way off from one indicator to another. The only thing that matters is whether or not you can read close enough to tune to a match condition -- auto or otherwise. Beyond that, it hardly matters and likely isn't worth the bits being transmitted on the subject :-) Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Why do you still have both? The K2 is my main station rig. I recently considered buying a K3 and even went to the Elecraft web site to order it. Each time I backed off so that I could think more about it. In the end, I decided to add a couple of options to my K2. I could still order a K3 if I want but, I'm afraid my K2 would just sit and gather dust. I don't want to sell it after spending all that time putting it together including the options. I see comments that the reciever is so much better on the K3 compared to the K2. How much better? I don't know of anyone that has a K3 to listen to. I've watched and listened to the Youtube videos but, the sound is only as good as my pc speakers and the camera that recorded it so, that's not much to go by. The specs look better on the K3 compared to the K2 but, not by much. For the kind of operating I do, the K2 is great. The K3 is always there in the back of my mind, though. In some respects, the K3 really sucks! ;-) Gary, N7THS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Gary D Krause wrote: Why do you still have both? A lot of reasons, not the least of which is that I built my K2. I only assembled my K3. It isn't the same. There's a bond with a radio that you built yourself that doesn't exist if you only bought it. Then the K3 does modes like AM, FM and digital. Digimodes were really an afterthought on the K2, but they are my biggest interest. The K3 was specced to be a digital operator's dream radio and although there have been some issues with the firmware, now corrected, I would say that it is. I also hoped for pleasanter receive audio quality. The audio on the K2 was a bit pinched, which is actually fine for communications purposes especually as mine was a QRP radio, but a bit tiring on the ears at times. The K3 allows wider filters that are flatter across the top which gives better fidelity, though it still has an indefinable DSP harshness that I don't notice in analog radios like the old FT-902DM someone brought to the local club the other night. About the last thing I bought the K3 for was its receiver performance numbers. My view on that is more or less who cares? In my situation it's external QRN that defines what I can and can't hear. I'm sure the K2 could hear anything the K3 can, but I've never bothered to test them side by side to be certain of it. But the fuss some people make about IP3 and the rest makes you wonder how anyone managed to work anything 20 years ago when sensitivity and selectivity were the only receiver paramaters anyone measured... 73, - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/To-those-that-have-the-K2-and-K3-tp3947624p3947778.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I don't have a KAT3. I often use an external remote matching unit. I cannot directly control the lowest SWR found. My linear is somewhat sensitive to SWR. At times I have observed a more than satisfactory apparent SWR indication on my K3 and found my amplifier was less than satisfied. That's not a non-issue for me. Thanks for the tip regarding the 12 Watt power setting. It seems that will help some. Best regards, Dick - KA5KKT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] WTB K3 FM filter
Ouch, this slipped by me in my move to the K3 IF for the VHF-Microwave station. I use FM frequently on 10Ghz rainscatter when signals are strong. So I am looking for a K3 FM filter (KFL3B-FM 13 kHz FM filter ), anyone have one surplus to your needs that would be for sale? Thanks Bill K0AWU EN37ed __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
K3: Better performance, more features. Good base-station radio. K2: Smaller. lighter, built-in battery. Good QRP portable radio. Al N1AL On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 12:39 -0700, Gary D Krause wrote: Why do you still have both? The K2 is my main station rig. I recently considered buying a K3 and even went to the Elecraft web site to order it. Each time I backed off so that I could think more about it. In the end, I decided to add a couple of options to my K2. I could still order a K3 if I want but, I'm afraid my K2 would just sit and gather dust. I don't want to sell it after spending all that time putting it together including the options. I see comments that the reciever is so much better on the K3 compared to the K2. How much better? I don't know of anyone that has a K3 to listen to. I've watched and listened to the Youtube videos but, the sound is only as good as my pc speakers and the camera that recorded it so, that's not much to go by. The specs look better on the K3 compared to the K2 but, not by much. For the kind of operating I do, the K2 is great. The K3 is always there in the back of my mind, though. In some respects, the K3 really sucks! ;-) Gary, N7THS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Wow, that's the first time I've done that to my own call sign. Thanks for the input Jack. A K3 just may be in my future yet. Gary, N7HTS On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:05:00 -0800 Jack Brindle jackbrin...@earthlink.net wrote: Gary; I have both. The K2 now serves as a backup to the K3, but I also use it for development work, so I probably don't count in the overall statistics. I plan on giving the K2 to my son (KG6YMN) when he goes to college in a year or so. That way he will have to work a bit harder to ask me to send money (rather than just picking up the phone)... I was very skeptical about the K3 receiver being better. Wayne kept assuring me it was. Then I got my K3, and discovered the truth. It is way better. There are several things. In contests it simply does not crunch, even when someone is relatively close by (both frequency and distance). The filters allow me to block folks out when I need to, but mostly they allow me to reduce the excess noise that tends to give me a headache. I can eliminate the super lows to get rid of rumble, and the highs that are just pure noise. And when there is a signal up there that bothers me, I just close the bandpass down a bit and get rid of it. I wish I could do that on the K2, but the DSP just doesn't have the capability. I found the noise blanker to be better on the K2 for getting rid of power-line noise, but an update from Lyle about three months ago changed this. The K3 now does a very good job. Of course it has many more settings for the _two_ noise blankers (one in hardware, the other in DSP), and you have to play with it to get a good feel for what is going on. I tend not to use the noise reduction, and several other things simply because they require more thought power than I am willing to give them on most days to figure them out. In that vein, some time ago I was playing with the auto-notch function on SSB (it works pretty well), then changed to CW. I couldn't understand why I couldn't copy any CW signals for a little while. I believe Wayne has fixed the software so it turns off the auto-notch in CW. Better to actually hear CW signals that way. The K2 sat on my workbench for a while, but it was too lonely. So I moved it back to the operating bench (where I do most of my development work anyway) where it looks quite nice next to the K3. And I actually use it from time to time (usually for testing KRC2 issues and the like). By the way, I see I'm not the only one who tends to type two letters backwards once in a while. But really, did you have to bust your own call? ;-) 73! Jack Brindle, W6FB On Nov 4, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Gary D Krause wrote: Why do you still have both? The K2 is my main station rig. I recently considered buying a K3 and even went to the Elecraft web site to order it. Each time I backed off so that I could think more about it. In the end, I decided to add a couple of options to my K2. I could still order a K3 if I want but, I'm afraid my K2 would just sit and gather dust. I don't want to sell it after spending all that time putting it together including the options. I see comments that the reciever is so much better on the K3 compared to the K2. How much better? I don't know of anyone that has a K3 to listen to. I've watched and listened to the Youtube videos but, the sound is only as good as my pc speakers and the camera that recorded it so, that's not much to go by. The specs look better on the K3 compared to the K2 but, not by much. For the kind of operating I do, the K2 is great. The K3 is always there in the back of my mind, though. In some respects, the K3 really sucks! ;-) Gary, N7THS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
The K3 sucks because, it creates such a dilemma for me. Should I buy one, should I not and so on. Those guys at Elecraft are pretty good at dangling the carrot. ;-) Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. 73, Ted, W2ZK Gary D Krause wrote: The K3 sucks because, it creates such a dilemma for me. Should I buy one, should I not and so on. Those guys at Elecraft are pretty good at dangling the carrot. ;-) Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:39:51 -0700 Gary D Krause n7...@bresnan.net wrote: Why do you still have both? The K2 is my main station rig. I recently considered buying a K3 and even went to the Elecraft web site to order it. Each time I backed off so that I could think more about it. snip Hi Gary, I'm still working on my KX-1, so I can't speak from direct experience about the K2 or K3. But it seems to me the telling phrase in your post is for the kind of operating I do, the K2 is great. So the next question might be: How strong are your urges to operate Amen, FM, and digital? If they are not *that* strong, and the K2 is great for the kind of operating you do, then it sounds like you're set. Put another way, given the kind of operating you enjoy, what's the single biggest improvement you could make to your station with $1,500 to $2,000 (rounded) to play with? Just a thought... With best regards, Pete -- Peter N. Spotts -- KC1JB http://www.kc1jb.net (under construction) Email: kc...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts QRP-ARCI # 4174 | North American QRP CW Club # 2446 Flying Pigs QRP # 1983 | SKCC # 4853C | QCWA #34679 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Ted; I don't think that the K2 has been capped is all that accurate. The developer for the radio is awfully busy doing other things, but he has assured us the dream is still very much alive and the ideas are there! Jack Brindle, W6FB On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. 73, Ted, W2ZK Gary D Krause wrote: The K3 sucks because, it creates such a dilemma for me. Should I buy one, should I not and so on. Those guys at Elecraft are pretty good at dangling the carrot. ;-) Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Jack, On 10/15/2009, Wayne Burdick had this exchange on this reflector under the subject line: has the k2 a future. It sounds capped to me. Ted, W2ZK = Michael van Hauten wrote: Dear elecraft -team, during the last 2 years all new modules and software updates had been designed for the K3. Is the K2 out of the focus or is there a chance for all the K2 users to get new modules and upgrades in the future ? The K2 is a very mature product, and I don't anticipate adding further internal modules to it. I've thought about a Li-Ion battery as a replacement for the present gel-cell, but it's still too expensive and is thus left as an exercise for the reader. The P3 should work with the K2, though less tightly integrated than with the K3. If that pans out, we'll post details later. We have no plans to phase out the K2, which is still going strong after 10 years (for which we thank our customers!). 73, Wayne N6KR = Jack Brindle wrote: Ted; I don't think that the K2 has been capped is all that accurate. The developer for the radio is awfully busy doing other things, but he has assured us the dream is still very much alive and the ideas are there! Jack Brindle, W6FB On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. 73, Ted, W2ZK Gary D Krause wrote: The K3 sucks because, it creates such a dilemma for me. Should I buy one, should I not and so on. Those guys at Elecraft are pretty good at dangling the carrot. ;-) Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: 160m SWR issue
The issue(s) that I'm facing are being dealt with fully in the other thread re: K3 SWR accuracy. I would like to abandon this thread. 73 -- Brian -- K1LI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
I have both K2 and K3. Although the K3 is my main station i am not considering to sell my K2 at all. Like Julian said, it is a home build rig and I am proud to have it. I once had a HW8 and sold it. Now feel sorry for doing so. I think when i should sell my K2 i will regret it in the near future. So...I keep both. Dick PA3CW Ted Roycraft wrote: Jack, On 10/15/2009, Wayne Burdick had this exchange on this reflector under the subject line: has the k2 a future. It sounds capped to me. Ted, W2ZK = Michael van Hauten wrote: Dear elecraft -team, during the last 2 years all new modules and software updates had been designed for the K3. Is the K2 out of the focus or is there a chance for all the K2 users to get new modules and upgrades in the future ? The K2 is a very mature product, and I don't anticipate adding further internal modules to it. I've thought about a Li-Ion battery as a replacement for the present gel-cell, but it's still too expensive and is thus left as an exercise for the reader. The P3 should work with the K2, though less tightly integrated than with the K3. If that pans out, we'll post details later. We have no plans to phase out the K2, which is still going strong after 10 years (for which we thank our customers!). 73, Wayne N6KR = Jack Brindle wrote: Ted; I don't think that the K2 has been capped is all that accurate. The developer for the radio is awfully busy doing other things, but he has assured us the dream is still very much alive and the ideas are there! Jack Brindle, W6FB On Nov 4, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. 73, Ted, W2ZK Gary D Krause wrote: The K3 sucks because, it creates such a dilemma for me. Should I buy one, should I not and so on. Those guys at Elecraft are pretty good at dangling the carrot. ;-) Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/To-those-that-have-the-K2-and-K3-tp3947624p3948238.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3Utility - Mac RF Calibration
Did we ever ever get anything final on the subtle bug that may have created a problem with RF Gain calibration in the Mac version of K3 Utility? I used the new test version sent out a few days ago, calibrated to an XG2 on 20M. Didn't have to adjust S-Meter cal on the Main receiver, but did cal the Sub S-Meter, which I'd ignored up until now. All seemed well, until I powered on the K3 today, and noticed what seemed to be scotch S-Meter readings. A recheck with the XG-2 shows only about S-7 with the 50uV test signal. Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Utility - Mac RF Calibration
Grant, Re-do the S-meter Cal on the main receiver. There seems to be some confusion on this topic, but there is only *one* set of S-meter calibration settings (at least that is the way it is right now). So when you thought you were calibrating the subRX S-meter, you likely messed up the settings for both the main RX and the sub - I can't say for certain but I think it has something to do with the 3 dB pad and athe variety of ways to connect the subRX antenna.. 73, Don W3FPR Grant Youngman wrote: Did we ever ever get anything final on the subtle bug that may have created a problem with RF Gain calibration in the Mac version of K3 Utility? I used the new test version sent out a few days ago, calibrated to an XG2 on 20M. Didn't have to adjust S-Meter cal on the Main receiver, but did cal the Sub S-Meter, which I'd ignored up until now. All seemed well, until I powered on the K3 today, and noticed what seemed to be scotch S-Meter readings. A recheck with the XG-2 shows only about S-7 with the 50uV test signal. Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 signal tracing question
I'm fault finding a K2 that is deaf and has low TX output and have a basic question regarding the sig gen I'm using. My generator will only produce 145mV pk to pk and I want to know if this should be enough to drive the AGC into saturation. I'm only measuring 4.9V on pin 1 of U2 which seems way low compared to the spec. Is this enough input as the spec is 145mV RMS from a RF probe (which I don't have - I'm using a scope). Initial checks haven't shown up anything significant but I will start from scratch again tomorrow as this week has been lost repairing my scope. Serial no. is 2756 and it has the rev A boards BTW. 73 Paul M1PAF -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K2-signal-tracing-question-tp3948589p3948589.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Hi all, This thread is getting rather long but I want to put my 2 cents worth in. The huge discrepancy between the K3 indicated SWR and the LP-100 shown in Stewarts original post is *not* normal or expected. Either there is something wrong with the data or the K3. I am finding that the K3 readings tend to be a little on the kind side. I don't have a precision meter like the LP-100 but have come to find my MFJ tuner with its cross-needle analog meter reasonably trustworthy. My K3 readings are generally lower by 0.2 to 0.3, but no more. This is both at the 10W level and the 100W level, and both at nearly perfect match and SWR more in 2:1-3:1 range. AB2TC - Knut Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2 wrote: I've been noticing some apparently anomalies in this area too, for example... I have two dummy loads - one is a 2kW rated PalStar, which doesn't appear to be exactly 50ohms (but close enough for usual purposes), and a Bird Termaline, which is mil-spec 50ohms (and shows as such on a sweep analyser), 150W rated. With 100W at 3520kHz, into the Bird, my LP-100A shows 1.00:1, and the K3 shows 1.0:1. snip -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-SWR-Accuracy-reprise-tp3943810p3948632.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. It's even more difficult to choose if you don't currently have either one. If you want a full-featured rig, the K2 is no bargain in comparison to the K3. To equip a K2 so it's nearly equivalent to the base K3, it comes in at only about $140 less than the K3. Like to work 6m? That's another $400. Oops, now your K2 is $250 more than a K3, and still doesn't have as good a receiver, IF DSP, excellent digital mode support... Want AM or FM support? Not there, or even available on the K2... 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
I built a K2/100 with every option except DSP and loved it. I planned to keep next to my K3 forever but I found that I was using the K2 less and less and favoring the K3 so I finally sold it. Wasn't easy as I had put so much into building it and the K2 is a great rig but it just didn't make sense to keep it if I wasn't using it. 73 Bill nz0t Ross Primrose wrote: Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. It's even more difficult to choose if you don't currently have either one. If you want a full-featured rig, the K2 is no bargain in comparison to the K3. To equip a K2 so it's nearly equivalent to the base K3, it comes in at only about $140 less than the K3. Like to work 6m? That's another $400. Oops, now your K2 is $250 more than a K3, and still doesn't have as good a receiver, IF DSP, excellent digital mode support... Want AM or FM support? Not there, or even available on the K2... 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/To-those-that-have-the-K2-and-K3-tp3947624p3948743.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
Much the same experience here. As much as I loved the K2 it hardly got used. Tough decision but I sold it and it's enjoying a new life in VK land (I'm rather envious in fact!). 73 Stephen G4SJP K3, KX-1 On 04/11/2009 22:27, NZ0T n...@cox.net wrote: I built a K2/100 with every option except DSP and loved it. I planned to keep next to my K3 forever but I found that I was using the K2 less and less and favoring the K3 so I finally sold it. Wasn't easy as I had put so much into building it and the K2 is a great rig but it just didn't make sense to keep it if I wasn't using it. 73 Bill nz0t Ross Primrose wrote: Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. It's even more difficult to choose if you don't currently have either one. If you want a full-featured rig, the K2 is no bargain in comparison to the K3. To equip a K2 so it's nearly equivalent to the base K3, it comes in at only about $140 less than the K3. Like to work 6m? That's another $400. Oops, now your K2 is $250 more than a K3, and still doesn't have as good a receiver, IF DSP, excellent digital mode support... Want AM or FM support? Not there, or even available on the K2... 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) ³At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.² __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/To-those-that-have-the-K2-and-K3-tp3947624p3948743.html S ent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Ele craft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] To those that own a K2 and K3
Thanks to everyone that responded to my post. It's a hard choice to make and I agree with everything that has been mentioned so far. I've written similar posts in the past just to get as much information as possible and to look at it from as many different perspectives as possible. As my late wife use to say, doing the research is half the fun for you , isn't it? My K2 (#6113) is a wonderful rig and I just added the KDSP board. I'm in the process of building the KAT2 for it right now. I decided not the buy the KPA100 because somewhere is the back of my mind there is this thought that it might be better to get a K3/100 instead. As someone else said, it never ends. Thanks, Gary, N7HTS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] CW REV
Hi all, Why CW is allways in REV mode each time I change band ? 73, Michel -- FM5CD K3 #02727 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Utility - Mac RF Calibration
Don .. I realized that as I was redoing the adjustments one more time -- no separate S-meter adjustments for the Sub.I'll start from scratch. But the results do seem a bit odd. As it now sits on the Main (and this is after mistakenly tweaking S_meter cal on the Sub), a 50uV signal yields an S-7 with preamp off and S-9 with preamp on, with the meter in Nor mode. In Abs mode, I see S-7 with preamp off and S-6 with preamp ON. It's certainly possible (most likely?) that there's a cockpit problem here, but the results I'm getting don't look right. Prior to all of this, there was no change in S-meter reading when activating the preamp in abs mode. Grant/NQ5T On Nov 4, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Grant, Re-do the S-meter Cal on the main receiver. There seems to be some confusion on this topic, but there is only *one* set of S-meter calibration settings (at least that is the way it is right now). So when you thought you were calibrating the subRX S-meter, you likely messed up the settings for both the main RX and the sub - I can't say for certain but I think it has something to do with the 3 dB pad and athe variety of ways to connect the subRX antenna.. 73, Don W3FPR Grant Youngman wrote: Did we ever ever get anything final on the subtle bug that may have created a problem with RF Gain calibration in the Mac version of K3 Utility? I used the new test version sent out a few days ago, calibrated to an XG2 on 20M. Didn't have to adjust S-Meter cal on the Main receiver, but did cal the Sub S-Meter, which I'd ignored up until now. All seemed well, until I powered on the K3 today, and noticed what seemed to be scotch S-Meter readings. A recheck with the XG-2 shows only about S-7 with the 50uV test signal. Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 signal tracing question
Paul, That is not enough signal to saturate the AGC for certain - but then if you have the Extremely Strong Signal Handling diodes in place you will likely find a similar condition because the diodes clip on those very large signals. All is not lost, you can still do the signal tracing with a lower level signal as long as you 'use your head' instead of the RF voltages indicated in the manual. You can approximate the gain/loss of each stage and check for that amount of gain/loss with the scope reading on the output vs the input of any stage. Did you really mean 4.9V signal? That is 1.75 volts RMS and is well in excess of what is required - if you meant 4.9 mV peak to peak, then fine, but if you are really measuring 4.9 volts, then something is wrong (sounds like a strong oscillation). Check the BFO input to the Product Detector at U11 pin 6 - it should be in excess of 200 mV peak to peak. Likewise check the RX VFO signal to the mixer - it must be +7dBm (5 mW) which into a 50 ohm load translates into 0.5 volts RMS or 1.4 volts peak to peak. A weak BFO signal can explain both bad receive and low transmit output. On transmit, the Transmit Mixer also needs more than 200 mV peak to peak from the VFO to U10 pin 6. Be certain the Post-Mixer Amp is amplifying, as well as the IF amplifier. If the input to the IF amplifier is low, it may be because of a KSB2 board problem - remove the KSB2 and put jumpers from pins 1 to 3 of both J9 and J10. Has this K2 worked before and suddenly failed? Or is this a new build of an older kit? In both cases, look for a solder problem, like an unsoldered connection or a poorly soldered joint. It is not unusual for a bad solder connection to work fine until enough oxidation builds up to cause a failure. 73, Don W3FPR Paul Fletcher wrote: I'm fault finding a K2 that is deaf and has low TX output and have a basic question regarding the sig gen I'm using. My generator will only produce 145mV pk to pk and I want to know if this should be enough to drive the AGC into saturation. I'm only measuring 4.9V on pin 1 of U2 which seems way low compared to the spec. Is this enough input as the spec is 145mV RMS from a RF probe (which I don't have - I'm using a scope). Initial checks haven't shown up anything significant but I will start from scratch again tomorrow as this week has been lost repairing my scope. Serial no. is 2756 and it has the rev A boards BTW. 73 Paul M1PAF No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.49/2480 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Utility - Mac RF Calibration
Grant, The compensation between 'nor' and 'abs' is done in software, so it may be that something you did in the calibrations has thrown it off a bit - it is not hard to re-do both the RF gain and S-meter calibrations, so I would do them both (in that order). 73, Don W3FPR Grant Youngman wrote: Don .. I realized that as I was redoing the adjustments one more time -- no separate S-meter adjustments for the Sub.I'll start from scratch. But the results do seem a bit odd. As it now sits on the Main (and this is after mistakenly tweaking S_meter cal on the Sub), a 50uV signal yields an S-7 with preamp off and S-9 with preamp on, with the meter in Nor mode. In Abs mode, I see S-7 with preamp off and S-6 with preamp ON. It's certainly possible (most likely?) that there's a cockpit problem here, but the results I'm getting don't look right. Prior to all of this, there was no change in S-meter reading when activating the preamp in abs mode. Grant/NQ5T On Nov 4, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Grant, Re-do the S-meter Cal on the main receiver. There seems to be some confusion on this topic, but there is only *one* set of S-meter calibration settings (at least that is the way it is right now). So when you thought you were calibrating the subRX S-meter, you likely messed up the settings for both the main RX and the sub - I can't say for certain but I think it has something to do with the 3 dB pad and athe variety of ways to connect the subRX antenna.. 73, Don W3FPR Grant Youngman wrote: Did we ever ever get anything final on the subtle bug that may have created a problem with RF Gain calibration in the Mac version of K3 Utility? I used the new test version sent out a few days ago, calibrated to an XG2 on 20M. Didn't have to adjust S-Meter cal on the Main receiver, but did cal the Sub S-Meter, which I'd ignored up until now. All seemed well, until I powered on the K3 today, and noticed what seemed to be scotch S-Meter readings. A recheck with the XG-2 shows only about S-7 with the 50uV test signal. Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.49/2480 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
That assumes there is no RF on the exterior of the coax and the SWR sensors are ideal. Neither is the case and from personal experience I can tell you that the swr meters will change readings based on coax length. 73, Eric Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- _..._ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] K2 signal tracing question
Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: Did you really mean 4.9V signal? No - 4.9V AGC voltage which should be over 6V at saturation hence the question about the generator and it's output. Thanks for the pointers - I was looking for relative loss to the input signal anyway so will carry on tomorrow in more detail. Tonight was a quick poke around to see if I could see anything obvious. This K2 came from ebay and was like this when bought by it's present owner so I don't know if it's always been like it. I suspect a soldering problem somewhere as the insulation stripping on the toroids doesn't look very clever but don't want to jump to any conclusions just yet. 73 Paul M1PAF -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K2-signal-tracing-question-tp3948589p3949034.html Sent from the [K2] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X _ . Generally, simple swr indicators are much less sensitive to impedances on the low impedance side of the smith chart. For example, I compared my K3 with an elderly Drake W4 using my 30 meter short vertical dipole which has a feed point resistance of of about 33 ohms using a six foot piece of RG-213 and then adding an additional 16 feet of coax. Surprisingly, the K3 and the R4 agreed within 1 per cent on forward power and had the same variation in swr. The antenna feed point resistance was measured with an elderly General Radio model 1606A HF impedance bridge. Of course, with only six feet of cable, it's difficult to get excited about a little swr. The reason that the feed line is so short is that the feed point is inside the shack. I have permission from my hoa to have an outside antenna provided that it's unobtrusive and mine is almost stealth. http://vibrotek.com/w5dc/w5dcant.html I'm currently at 95 dxcc countries since summer, up 33 from a few weeks ago when I replaced my 1975 vintage, very modified, FT-101E with the K3. One problem that I do have is that the K3 output seems low on 30 meters, varying from 85 to 90 watts with both the antenna and with my Heath Cantenna. Other bands show 110 watts. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of coax that's sold as 50 ohms is really more like 60 ohms. The typical 50 ohm foam coax actually has a characteristic impedance of about 59.5 ohms so that an expected 1.1 to 1 swr could really be 1.44 and vice versa. 73, Dunc, W5DC (sometimes professional antenna designer - read qrz.com bio) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
That assumes there is no RF on the exterior of the coax and the SWR sensors are ideal. Neither is the case and from personal experience I can tell you that the swr meters will change readings based on coax length. The SWR *reading* may change as a function of coax length when current is present on the outer conductor, but as Phil states, the actual line SWR does not change, neglecting any line loss. In a mismatched condition, the Z measured at the line input does change with line length and as F increases, it takes smaller changes in line length to see changes in input Z. To deal with the problem Eric describes, I use choking line isolators between the transceivers and amps, immediately after the amp, and depending on the antenna type, again at the antenna feed point for most antennas with a coaxial feed point. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I can vouch for Eric's statement. I routinely calibrate KPA100 wattmeters for SWR using a precision 100 ohm dummy load (which should produce a 2.0 SWR). At 40 meters, I get 2.0 if I use a direct connection with a male to male adapter, with a 1 foot coax, it shows SWR=2.1 and with a 2 foot coax, it indicates SWR=2.2. The coax length is NOT negligible. BTW - my MFJ-259B shows the same thing with those same cable lengths. The Smith Chart constant SWR circle is for ideal (theoretical) conditions, and the real world conditions of cable loss and RF in places the Smith Chart does not consider must be factored in to explain phenomenon like this. Since most instrumentation is balanced/calibrated for 50 ohms, things agree when the impedance is 50 ohms resistive, but away from that point, other factors come into play. 73, Don W3FPR Eric Swartz -WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: That assumes there is no RF on the exterior of the coax and the SWR sensors are ideal. Neither is the case and from personal experience I can tell you that the swr meters will change readings based on coax length. 73, Eric Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I was using 4 Watts, the external bridge is a taiwan-made AV-20, I forgot the brand name. There is a sticker, it says accuracy 10%. Today I tested again using 10 Watts, the K3's and the external meters readout match a lot closer. With 10 W i can bring the K3s readout to 1.0:1 , with 4 W it was never better than 1.1:1. At 100 Watts , both meters agree in the range from 1.0:1 up to about 3:1. That is good enough for me. I don't care much about a perfect swr, but the components in the tuner *do* care when the K3 drives the Alpha. It should not be too bad then. :-) Martin -- Wayne Burdick schrieb: What power level were you using? And what type of external bridge? The K3's SWR bridge has two sensitivity ranges. If you have power set to 12 W or lower, the higher-sensitivity range is used. If you have power set above 12 W, the lower-sensitivity range is used. This is necessary to prevent heating of the transformers in the bridge. SWR accuracy will be best when you're in the upper part of each range. So, for example, it'll be more accurate at 12 W than 1 W, and more accurate at 100 W than at 13 W. But accuracy should still be reasonable even in the lower end of the range. Your external bridge may have better sensitivity at the particular power range you were using. 73, Wayne N6KR -- 73, DM4iM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. You can certainly use your feeder to match your antenna. Of course, if SWR meters didn't care what the impedance is then yes, it wouldn't matter where you put it along the line but such is not the case. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date: 11/04/09 14:51:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
The SWR definitely does not change with line length. However the SWR _READING_ often does because of the inaccuracy of inexpensive SWR meters. The SWR reading should depend only on the relative magnitudes of the forward and reflected power and not on the phase angle between them. But with inexpensive SWR meters that is often not the case. Al N1AL On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 18:33 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote: I can vouch for Eric's statement. I routinely calibrate KPA100 wattmeters for SWR using a precision 100 ohm dummy load (which should produce a 2.0 SWR). At 40 meters, I get 2.0 if I use a direct connection with a male to male adapter, with a 1 foot coax, it shows SWR=2.1 and with a 2 foot coax, it indicates SWR=2.2. The coax length is NOT negligible. BTW - my MFJ-259B shows the same thing with those same cable lengths. The Smith Chart constant SWR circle is for ideal (theoretical) conditions, and the real world conditions of cable loss and RF in places the Smith Chart does not consider must be factored in to explain phenomenon like this. Since most instrumentation is balanced/calibrated for 50 ohms, things agree when the impedance is 50 ohms resistive, but away from that point, other factors come into play. 73, Don W3FPR Eric Swartz -WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: That assumes there is no RF on the exterior of the coax and the SWR sensors are ideal. Neither is the case and from personal experience I can tell you that the swr meters will change readings based on coax length. 73, Eric Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Transmission line theory (and therefore the Smith Chart info) IS correct. Transmission line length DOES transform the impedance, but not SWR. So you may be changing the impedance to something that your tuner can tune when you add coax length, but you are not changing the SWR by adding coax - other than the change due to coax loss which is negligable for short lengths. Now I do agree that different SWR meters probably read differently when the SWR is the same but the impedances presented to the two SWR meters are different. Phil - AD5X - Original Message - From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. You can certainly use your feeder to match your antenna. Of course, if SWR meters didn't care what the impedance is then yes, it wouldn't matter where you put it along the line but such is not the case. Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Steve, Just one clarification - a mismatched length of coax will transform the impedance, but a perfectly matched line will not. Since we calibrate things at 50 ohms, if the coax is exactly 50 ohms and the SWR is 1.0:1, no impedance transformation will exist. But real coax lines are nominally 50 ohms, so the conditions of a perfectly matched line may not exist even though the meters tell us it is at a particular point along the line. 73, Don W3FPR Steve Ellington wrote: The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. You can certainly use your feeder to match your antenna. Of course, if SWR meters didn't care what the impedance is then yes, it wouldn't matter where you put it along the line but such is not the case. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Hello, Please, please, does anybody remember the original poster's problem anymore? Quote: The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 I am repeating. This makes no sense given that he is using a parallel combination of two dummy loads which results in a 2:1 SWR. I am repeating: Either there is something wrong with the data or the K3 is faulty. Errors this large should not occur with properly functioning equipment. AB2TC - Knut Steve Ellington wrote: The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. dsnip -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-SWR-Accuracy-reprise-tp3943810p3949304.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
You have something terribly wrong. Two feet of coax at 7 MHz is negligible (~8 electrical degrees for solid dielectrics), even if its impedance is wildly different from 50 ohm. Furthermore, any loss in the cable should reduce the SWR, not increase it. --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 4:33 PM I can vouch for Eric's statement. I routinely calibrate KPA100 wattmeters for SWR using a precision 100 ohm dummy load (which should produce a 2.0 SWR). At 40 meters, I get 2.0 if I use a direct connection with a male to male adapter, with a 1 foot coax, it shows SWR=2.1 and with a 2 foot coax, it indicates SWR=2.2. The coax length is NOT negligible. BTW - my MFJ-259B shows the same thing with those same cable lengths. The Smith Chart constant SWR circle is for ideal (theoretical) conditions, and the real world conditions of cable loss and RF in places the Smith Chart does not consider must be factored in to explain phenomenon like this. Since most instrumentation is balanced/calibrated for 50 ohms, things agree when the impedance is 50 ohms resistive, but away from that point, other factors come into play. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] VFO Tuning Noise, still some there after modification
After implementing Elecraft's VFO tuning hash modification, there was still hash to be heard on my K3, most notably in the bottom 40kHz of 10 metres. The problem was finally eased by replacement of the two silicon diodes used in the modification. Although no fault could be found with the original diodes - they were a couple from a large bandolier of 1N4148 purchased from a major retailer some time ago - their replacement with a couple of 1N4148 diodes recycled from redundant equipment reduced the hash level to below the received antenna noise level on 10m. The only difference I could find between the two pairs of diodes was that the Vf on the original diodes was higher than that of the replacement diodes. Original diode Vf 0.75v, replacement diode Vf 0.71v, all measurements taken at 5mA. If anyone is still experiencing VFO tuning hash after making the modification, it might be worth trying a swap out of the diodes. Perhaps using Schottky barrier diodes might be even better? Hats off to Gary of Elecraft support for his patience and for always being there when needed. Also to Dale, who could hear my K3's hash over 8,000 miles of landline. 73 DaveL G3TJP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
So here is the bottom line: 1. SWR is the same anywhere along the transmission line per Mr. Smith and his Chart. 2. When the transmission line doesn't match the antenna we have an SWR other than 1:1. 3. The SWR meter will often read differently at the antenna vs. at transmitter. 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. SWR reads infinite at the antenna but with 1/4 wavelenth of coax, SWR reads low! 5. Why? SWR meters are designed to work with a specific impedance and the impedance is obviously different in the example. 6. Putting that SWR meter along various points along the xmission line gives different readings. 7. You can fiddle with the xmission line length and fool an SWR meter into thinking the SWR is 1:1 when it is really quiet high. 8. SWR meters are good for making sure your transmitter sees 50 ohms unless you like climbing. 9. SWR meters are good for antenna matching if they are placed at the feedpoint of the antenna. Tower or tree climbing needed unless you have a ground mounted vertical. 10 SWR meters will read correctly if the xmission line is a multiple of 1/2 wavelenth ( A rare occurance). 11. If your line is not matched, you could hook 100 SWR meters in series and they would all read something different. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com To: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise Transmission line theory (and therefore the Smith Chart info) IS correct. Transmission line length DOES transform the impedance, but not SWR. So you may be changing the impedance to something that your tuner can tune when you add coax length, but you are not changing the SWR by adding coax - other than the change due to coax loss which is negligable for short lengths. Now I do agree that different SWR meters probably read differently when the SWR is the same but the impedances presented to the two SWR meters are different. Phil - AD5X - Original Message - From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. You can certainly use your feeder to match your antenna. Of course, if SWR meters didn't care what the impedance is then yes, it wouldn't matter where you put it along the line but such is not the case. Steve N4LQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date: 11/04/09 14:51:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. Absent loss, if the cable Zo matches the SWR bridge design impedance (or vice versa), then the SWR reading should be unaffected by the cable length. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. Of course it does, it makes perfect sense. If the chart is normalized to the line Zo, and the load Z is mapped accordingly, then changing line length moves the load Z around the chart. Yes, the impedance changes, but the SWR does not. A properly designed instrument, matched to the line Zo should read the same SWR regardless of line length. These devices aren't impedance bridges, they are (supposedly) reflection coefficient measurement instruments. As such, they haven't a clue what the impedance is, nor should they. You can certainly use your feeder to match your antenna. Of course, if SWR meters didn't care what the impedance is then yes, it wouldn't matter where you put it along the line but such is not the case. Well, as I said above, it should be the case. Wes N7WS Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise How long is the coax between the LP100 sensor and the K3? This can have a significant impedance transformation impact as you go to higher frequencies, leading to a different indicated SWR at each end. The impedance changes, but not the SWR. Looking at this on a Smith Chart, you can see that you just rotate around a constant SWR circle. Minus coax losses of course, which are negligable when we're talking a few feet at HF. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. SWR reads infinite at the antenna but with 1/4 wavelenth of coax, SWR reads low! Nope -- the *impedance* at the end of a 1/4 wave transmission line when it is looking at a very large impedance, is close to zero, therefore the SWR remains close to infinite. The SWR definitely won't read low unless there is something wrong with the instrument. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I give up. Please somebody end this thread. There is no useful information in this thread to the OP. I can't really help him because I don't experience his problems. I have decent agreement between all instruments in my feed line about the antenna SWR. Knut - AB2TC Wes Stewart wrote: --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. Absent loss, if the cable Zo matches the SWR bridge design impedance (or vice versa), then the SWR reading should be unaffected by the cable length. I've seen this Smith Chart reference before and it makes no sense. snip -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-SWR-Accuracy-reprise-tp3943810p3949442.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those about to rock, we salute you (K3 v. K2)
I agree with you, Dick. The K2 and K3 are very different radios and I LOVE THEM BOTH. The K3 is a Ferrari Enzo, and the K2 is a Porsche 911 GT2.. Why not drive them both? My biggest regret as a ham is selling the Heathkit HW-16 and HW-101 I built in my youth--to buy a used TS-520. It makes me sick thinking about it. You can have my KX1, K1, K2, and K3 when you pry them from my cold, dead, QRS hands. 73, Eric WD6DBM Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) From: PA3CW pa...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 1257369320911-3948238.p...@n2.nabble.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have both K2 and K3. Although the K3 is my main station i am not considering to sell my K2 at all. Like Julian said, it is a home build rig and I am proud to have it. I once had a HW8 and sold it. Now feel sorry for doing so. I think when i should sell my K2 i will regret it in the near future. So...I keep both. Dick PA3CW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
The KAT3 is between the two bridges. The two will see different impedences on some bands as a result of stray L and C. This probably accounts for some or most of the reading error. 73, Wayne N6KR http://www.elecraft.com On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:23 PM, ab2tc ab...@arrl.net wrote: Hello, Please, please, does anybody remember the original poster's problem anymore? Quote: The results I got for 2:1 VSWR are as follows:- LP-100 K3 160 1.991.8 80 1.991.8 60 1.991.8 40 1.951.8 30 1.971.6 20 1.971.4 17 1.971.3 15 1.961.2 12 1.961.5 10 1.961.4 I am repeating. This makes no sense given that he is using a parallel combination of two dummy loads which results in a 2:1 SWR. I am repeating: Either there is something wrong with the data or the K3 is faulty. Errors this large should not occur with properly functioning equipment. AB2TC - Knut Steve Ellington wrote: The first statement is correct. Length of coax will transform impedance and cause SWR meters to read differently. dsnip -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-SWR-Accuracy-reprise-tp3943810p3949304.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
Nope: The 1/4 wave line transforms the high impedance to a low one and the SWR meter reads low. It's called a transmission line transformer and is very common. It's the reason everyone is having trouble understanding why SWR meters read differently. The ONLY way to compare them is to swap them with each other. Putting them in series fouls up the readings for both meters. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Kok Chen c...@mac.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. SWR reads infinite at the antenna but with 1/4 wavelenth of coax, SWR reads low! Nope -- the *impedance* at the end of a 1/4 wave transmission line when it is looking at a very large impedance, is close to zero, therefore the SWR remains close to infinite. The SWR definitely won't read low unless there is something wrong with the instrument. 73 Chen, W7AY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date: 11/04/09 14:51:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
I have a K2/100 and 2 K3s. They each have their place. I think it's a mistake to compare the two different radios because they were obviously intended for very different purposes. If I wanted a very portable CW rig which still offers me up to 100 W when needed and which also has some SSB capability, I think the K2 is certainly the ticket. But for kind contesting or serious DX chasing the K-3 is clearly the radio to use. I wouldn't for the world think of trying to make the K2 into a K-3 equivalent. It is what it is and what it does it does very well. I think a person contemplating purchasing a radio now should decide whether they would appreciate the kit building experience. I think there is something very satisfying in assembling a working radio from a large pile of parts. Putting together a K-3 from populated circuit boards is simply not the same experience. I know I purchased my K2/100 primarily for the kit building experience. I knew going into it that it was not perhaps as full-featured as some other radios but that was not why I wanted to buy it. I think I got what I was looking for. Bruce-W8FU -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of NZ0T Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3 I built a K2/100 with every option except DSP and loved it. I planned to keep next to my K3 forever but I found that I was using the K2 less and less and favoring the K3 so I finally sold it. Wasn't easy as I had put so much into building it and the K2 is a great rig but it just didn't make sense to keep it if I wasn't using it. 73 Bill nz0t Ross Primrose wrote: Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new every couple of days. It's even more difficult to choose if you don't currently have either one. If you want a full-featured rig, the K2 is no bargain in comparison to the K3. To equip a K2 so it's nearly equivalent to the base K3, it comes in at only about $140 less than the K3. Like to work 6m? That's another $400. Oops, now your K2 is $250 more than a K3, and still doesn't have as good a receiver, IF DSP, excellent digital mode support... Want AM or FM support? Not there, or even available on the K2... 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/To-those-that-have-the-K2-and-K3-tp3947624p3948743.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] No output in DATA A
Julian, G4ILO wrote: I think a bug has crept in during one of the recent updates. I'm running 3.47/2.41 at the moment. Julian - I have had the same experience recently - I go to another band, transmit there, then come back and it generally fixes it. Unfortunately I can't replicate the problem, it strikes randomly - usually when there is a rare one. Running 3.52/2.43 here 73 Julian -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/No-output-in-DATA-A-tp3946876p3949599.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: It's called a transmission line transformer and is very common. Yes, we all know about them. Just walk 180 degrees on a constant SWR circle on the Smith Chart, with the transmission line impedance at the center of the Smith Chart (or use 1/4 wavelength in the Telegrapher's Equation). But this is what you'd stated (I am not changing a single word): 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. You can use a 600 ohm transmission line to transform a high impedance to get a reasonably close match to 50 ohms because the impedance at the center of that dipole is *not* infinite but some large number (W8JI has good estimates in the Zepp article on his web site). But you cannot transform anything other than a 50 ohm feed point into a 50 ohm termination by using a 50 ohm transmission line. (Unless the line is infinitely lossy.) It should be obvious from the Smith Chart -- constant SWR circles won't hit 50+j0 unless the SWR circle itself has 0 radius (i.e., SWR = 1.0:1) 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
But you cannot transform anything other than a 50 ohm feed point into a 50 ohm termination by using a 50 ohm transmission line. (Unless the line is infinitely lossy.) Don't worryIt will be! Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Kok Chen c...@mac.com To: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: It's called a transmission line transformer and is very common. Yes, we all know about them. Just walk 180 degrees on a constant SWR circle on the Smith Chart, with the transmission line impedance at the center of the Smith Chart (or use 1/4 wavelength in the Telegrapher's Equation). But this is what you'd stated (I am not changing a single word): 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. You can use a 600 ohm transmission line to transform a high impedance to get a reasonably close match to 50 ohms because the impedance at the center of that dipole is *not* infinite but some large number (W8JI has good estimates in the Zepp article on his web site). But you cannot transform anything other than a 50 ohm feed point into a 50 ohm termination by using a 50 ohm transmission line. (Unless the line is infinitely lossy.) It should be obvious from the Smith Chart -- constant SWR circles won't hit 50+j0 unless the SWR circle itself has 0 radius (i.e., SWR = 1.0:1) 73 Chen, W7AY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date: 11/04/09 14:51:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3
My two cents to this endless topic. I am one of the many owners of both the K3 and the K2 and when I got recently my K2 which is fully loaded with every single board Elecraft designed and built,I had them both side by side for a month testing them day and night using always same antennas switched back and forward with a A/B coaxial switch,and these were my results: Sensitivity: both have equal sensitivity,both will be able to pull a weak station easily Noise level: (noise floor): The K2 has less noise than the K3 in all bands.So its easier to pull weak stations from the noise than at the K3.Most of the times there is no need to use the NR at the K2 when at the K3 has to be used. Selectivity:At the K2 Its hard to receive a weak station when at only 5Khz there is a strong one(on SSB) but when using the K3 and the proper roofer with the DSP set to same BW is very easy to have a clean signal even at 2Khz away from the strong one.The ladder filter at the K2 at least for SSB is not enough selective even using the FL4 at 1.8Khz,,but nevertheless for CW it works terrific on selectivity in spite of its not better than the roofers at the K3.In CW my K2 at 400hz BW has a little bit of ringing noise but then the K3 even at 50Hz BW has none at all. Audio quality:Even my K2 has the SSB board modified for 2.6Khz BW,its audio response is only from 180 to about 2800Hz,so its audio is not so wide as the one at the K3 that goes from 50 to 3800Hz,so when you want to hear AM broadcast or some of the guys who are transmitting ESSB,the K3 will not sound as pleasent as the K3 and after a while is tiring,I can be hours listening my K3 and will never be tired of it. On TX same deal,the K2 even sound very good, is limited strictly to what is needed for two way audio comunications,but if you want to tailor your voice with any mic there is no way to do it,just try different mics until you find the one that fits better with your personal pitch,in my case I found the Kenwood MC-43S to be the best for my voice.At the K3 you can use any mic that the builtin 8 bands EQ will make it sound very good and your audio well balanced at wider BW. Will I sell my K2 even is not so good as the K3? No way ! That's a keeper as much as the K3 is,but for not taking dust here at home,I have it now at my work shop to listen during my lunch time how the bands are and the day I travel or go to a field day or a picnic,the K2 will be the designated one. Both radios are different on design and use but both play high league. 73 AD4C For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3 For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Bruce McLaughlin bmcla...@bex.net wrote: From: Bruce McLaughlin bmcla...@bex.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3 To: 'NZ0T' n...@cox.net, elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 1:13 AM I have a K2/100 and 2 K3s. They each have their place. I think it's a mistake to compare the two different radios because they were obviously intended for very different purposes. If I wanted a very portable CW rig which still offers me up to 100 W when needed and which also has some SSB capability, I think the K2 is certainly the ticket. But for kind contesting or serious DX chasing the K-3 is clearly the radio to use. I wouldn't for the world think of trying to make the K2 into a K-3 equivalent. It is what it is and what it does it does very well. I think a person contemplating purchasing a radio now should decide whether they would appreciate the kit building experience. I think there is something very satisfying in assembling a working radio from a large pile of parts. Putting together a K-3 from populated circuit boards is simply not the same experience. I know I purchased my K2/100 primarily for the kit building experience. I knew going into it that it was not perhaps as full-featured as some other radios but that was not why I wanted to buy it. I think I got what I was looking for. Bruce-W8FU -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of NZ0T Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To those that have the K2 and K3 I built a K2/100 with every option except DSP and loved it. I planned to keep next to my K3 forever but I found that I was using the K2 less and less and favoring the K3 so I finally sold it. Wasn't easy as I had put so much into building it and the K2 is a great rig but it just didn't make sense to keep it if I wasn't using it. 73 Bill nz0t Ross Primrose wrote: Ted Roycraft wrote: Gary, I have both also and pretty much agree with what has been said. The only thing I can add is that the K2 has been capped and you can't expect much if anything in the way of new features from Elecraft while the K3 is under active development and there seems to be something new
Re: [Elecraft] To those about to rock, we salute you (K3 v. K2)
On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 16:56 -0800, eric norris wrote: My biggest regret as a ham is selling the Heathkit HW-16 and HW-101 I built in my youth--to buy a used TS-520. It makes me sick thinking about it. My biggest regret is that I no longer have my first homebrew project, a one-tube (6U8A) regenerative short wave receiver built from an article in Popular Electronics magazine back when I was in high school in 1967. It worked great until I cannibalized it for parts. :=( Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise
I believe Steve is onto something critical to this discussion - here is my 'take' on the differences -- Remember that we *are* talking about the resultant SWR indications on a mis-matched line. The way most wattmeters indicate SWR is to detect the forward power and the reflected power - then an SWR is computed from those values of associated detector output voltages. The result is an SWR indication based on the absolute values of those magnitudes. No consideration is provided for the phase angles (the actual forward and reflected values are complex numbers). The forward power is indicated accurately (it is proportional to the square of the forward voltage minus the square of the reflected voltage), but the computation of actual SWR is more involved. When the impedances are close to the design point (balance point) of the meter, the error is small, but the error grows as the actual impedance departs from that design impedance. Those meters that properly detect the phase as well as the magnitude of the forward and reflected powers can indicate that the SWR does not change as the meter position is moved along the line - but most do not have phase detection capability nor complex number computation capability, so for those meters, the SWR indicated will change with the meter position along the feedline. In other words, use a good VNA and you should see a constant SWR along the line, but common wattmeters are not VNAs, so some error in SWR indication is to be expected when the impedance is removed from the design point. Even the well-respected Tandem Match computes the SWR as Vf+Vr/Vf-Vr, which is the correct formula, but the detector reports only the magnitudes of Vf and Vr and does not consider the phase angle, so it is not entirely correct either - it will be entirely correct when the SWR = 1.0. 73, Don W3FPR Steve Ellington wrote: Nope: The 1/4 wave line transforms the high impedance to a low one and the SWR meter reads low. It's called a transmission line transformer and is very common. It's the reason everyone is having trouble understanding why SWR meters read differently. The ONLY way to compare them is to swap them with each other. Putting them in series fouls up the readings for both meters. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Kok Chen c...@mac.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SWR Accuracy - reprise On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: 4. Example: A full wave dipole center fed with 50 ohm coax. SWR reads infinite at the antenna but with 1/4 wavelenth of coax, SWR reads low! Nope -- the *impedance* at the end of a 1/4 wave transmission line when it is looking at a very large impedance, is close to zero, therefore the SWR remains close to infinite. The SWR definitely won't read low unless there is something wrong with the instrument. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those about to rock, we salute you (K3 v. K2)
Al, I have similar regrets about my first transmitter - the 5763/6146 transmitter that was in the ARRL Hnadbook for 1955 and 1956. It too was cannibalized for parts at a later time, and I have often considered building another from scratch, but now cannot find all the required parts at a price I am willing to pay. And too, I sometimes think about the current value of all those ARC-5 radios that I was able to buy for $5 to $10 back then - they were great parts resources at that time - if I had left them intact, I could have a nice fortune now. Nostalgia is 'catchy', and hindsight is always 20-20 vision. 73, Don W3FPR Alan Bloom wrote: On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 16:56 -0800, eric norris wrote: My biggest regret as a ham is selling the Heathkit HW-16 and HW-101 I built in my youth--to buy a used TS-520. It makes me sick thinking about it. My biggest regret is that I no longer have my first homebrew project, a one-tube (6U8A) regenerative short wave receiver built from an article in Popular Electronics magazine back when I was in high school in 1967. It worked great until I cannibalized it for parts. :=( Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those about to rock, we salute you (K3 v. K2)
Everyone that homebrews has these stories. Each one is a heart-breaker. Mine was a Heathkit DX-20 with my own custom screen modulator for AM, built in 1971 and mod'ed in 1973. I reused the tubes in another TX and tossed everything else. Argh. Ah... history. Still have the DX-60 that came after though. It still works too. But all in all, I'm very pleased that we have the K3 now, and we're in an age where magic is stil possible. Seems like at least 3000+ others agree... 73, matt W6NIA On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:33:16 -0800, you wrote: On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 16:56 -0800, eric norris wrote: My biggest regret as a ham is selling the Heathkit HW-16 and HW-101 I built in my youth--to buy a used TS-520. It makes me sick thinking about it. My biggest regret is that I no longer have my first homebrew project, a one-tube (6U8A) regenerative short wave receiver built from an article in Popular Electronics magazine back when I was in high school in 1967. It worked great until I cannibalized it for parts. :=( Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] To those about to rock, we salute you (K3 v. K2)
I did the same thing and got rid of the HW-101 and some other stuff to buy a TS-520 then on to the TS-820. I never looked back. I never had anymore Heathkit Green in the shack (except for the Sb-220 which I did dump too) I did not miss the Hw-101. The darn thing had paper coil slugs and the change of temperature and humidity. I never had the darn cover on it for long. The screws were always out. I never looked back Different strokes for different folks. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - J. Wolf __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
