Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 28 November 2011 00:41, BRIAN GLACKIN glackin.br...@gmail.com wrote: For me, Using Firefox, each link resulted in a download of the specific jpg. If you click the jpg and have a recent version of Acrobat youshould get a 3D-viewable model. However, I have no idea how widespread the 3D PDF format is, it was just what was available on my machine when it was running Windows and modelling in Alibre. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 28 November 2011 05:00, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote: Thanks, Andy, and best of luck realizing your design. At the moment I don't have any plans to make it, I just wanted to see if the idea hung together when modelled. If anyone does want to make it, I would be fascinated to know if it works :-) However, it does need a lot of machining on some big lumps of metal. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 7 November 2011 04:32, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote: Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I have been thinking about this, and settled down to design a purely mechanical High-Speed spindle for my milling machine. It has a BT30 spindle and, like many oldr machines, a range of speeds, all of which are slow. In this case the are speeds from 46 to 1200 rpm. http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.html It looks a bit of a mess in HTML, but if you download the PDFs and view them in Adobe Reader they look a lot better, and you can pan/tilt/rotate, change to wireframe etc. It is based on a supercharger I saw at work some time ago. It is purely friction-drive (for smoothness, and cheapness). The outer (green) spring-band is a very tight fit and clamps the (off the shelf) 6204 bearings hard against the ER11 collet chuck 8mm shaft ($10 from eBay CTS Tools). The outer band needs to be held stationary by some peg/bracket/arm which is not shown. Also not shown is the nose-seal holder (which also tensions the bearings and depends on the exact design of the collet chuck and how the collet chuck is located in the nose bearings (no idea, possibly a split-clamp and jack-screws, maybe just a loctite-ed collar) The design shown has a 104:8 ratio, so for a 1000rpm input speed the output would be 13,000 rpm. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:52:34 AM andy pugh did opine: On 7 November 2011 04:32, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote: Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I have been thinking about this, and settled down to design a purely mechanical High-Speed spindle for my milling machine. It has a BT30 spindle and, like many oldr machines, a range of speeds, all of which are slow. In this case the are speeds from 46 to 1200 rpm. http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.html Clear, empty page displayed here. Error: is not copy/pastable. Something about an uncaught exception in line 363. It looks a bit of a mess in HTML, but if you download the PDFs and view them in Adobe Reader they look a lot better, and you can pan/tilt/rotate, change to wireframe etc. It is based on a supercharger I saw at work some time ago. It is purely friction-drive (for smoothness, and cheapness). The outer (green) spring-band is a very tight fit and clamps the (off the shelf) 6204 bearings hard against the ER11 collet chuck 8mm shaft ($10 from eBay CTS Tools). The outer band needs to be held stationary by some peg/bracket/arm which is not shown. Also not shown is the nose-seal holder (which also tensions the bearings and depends on the exact design of the collet chuck and how the collet chuck is located in the nose bearings (no idea, possibly a split-clamp and jack-screws, maybe just a loctite-ed collar) The design shown has a 104:8 ratio, so for a 1000rpm input speed the output would be 13,000 rpm. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene The Ancient Doctrine of Mind Over Matter: I don't mind... and you don't matter. -- As revealed to reporter G. Rivera by Swami Havabanana -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:25:31 PM andy pugh did opine: On 27 November 2011 16:56, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Clear, empty page displayed here. Strange. What does the source say. How about direct links? http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle2.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle3.pdf These worked fine. I didn't note a method to take up for overall wear in the outer band though. Or is the load on the bearing outer races such that no brinneling occurs? Interesting design, which has also been reversed in small potentiometers in order to give a very fine tuning of the value. It that case however, ball bearings with axial preload maintains the friction, while allowing slippage to save the bog std pot mechanism when it reaches the end of the rotation. As such, with flat bearing faces, it seems like it would have a limited operational lifetime, perhaps thousand hours? Perhaps 5 thousandths taper, matched in the output shaft diameter so the axial location bearing could be used as the preload adjuster comes to mind. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? A: He was giving it last rites. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 27 November 2011 17:39, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: These worked fine. I didn't note a method to take up for overall wear in the outer band though. Or is the load on the bearing outer races such that no brinneling occurs? The same design seemed to be considered OK for a supercharger (which would be running at 100,000 rpm and would be expected to last as long as an engine) My first guess was that the ring should be 1mm smaller than the collective OD of the bearings, and that the flex would take up wear for some time. The failure mode that concerns me most is actually fatigue of the outer ring due to the ocntinued flexing. Wear of the inner shaft would happen much faster, but those are an off-the-shelf and cheap part. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sunday, November 27, 2011 01:01:17 PM andy pugh did opine: On 27 November 2011 17:39, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: These worked fine. I didn't note a method to take up for overall wear in the outer band though. Or is the load on the bearing outer races such that no brinneling occurs? The same design seemed to be considered OK for a supercharger (which would be running at 100,000 rpm and would be expected to last as long as an engine) My first guess was that the ring should be 1mm smaller than the collective OD of the bearings, and that the flex would take up wear for some time. The failure mode that concerns me most is actually fatigue of the outer ring due to the ocntinued flexing. at a 1mm undersize, that matches what I am thinking too. It would have to be made not from bearing steel, but a spring steel alloy. This flex has to be allowed for while restraining its rotation somehow. Yes, McCullough sold a boatload of those super chargers, but during the time of their popularity, until the more efficient exhaust driven turbos showed up, their operational lifetime was far less than the engine they were feeding unless it was burning dynamite in a full race build, 5 to 10k miles maximum on a street engine. There was at one point, a quite thriving rebuild industry around them in the early 60's into the 70's. Wear of the inner shaft would happen much faster, but those are an off-the-shelf and cheap part. With, I assume some sort of a 3 piston squeezer to loosen it enough to put the new shaft in. :) I toyed with a 2 gear idea for my teeny little mill and came to the conclusion that what I would gain would be short life of that puny little 200 watt motor on it. So I mounted an HF die grinder off to one side, which works well. Noisy though. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene ...his disciples lead him in; he just does the rest. -- The Who, Tommy -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 27 November 2011 18:16, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: at a 1mm undersize, that matches what I am thinking too. It would have to be made not from bearing steel, but a spring steel alloy. This flex has to be allowed for while restraining its rotation somehow. I don't think that it would need to be anything particularly exotic, the wall is deliberately fairly thin to keep the surface strain down. Yes, McCullough sold a boatload of those super chargers, but during the time of their popularity, until the more efficient exhaust driven turbos showed up, their operational lifetime was far less than the engine they were feeding unless it was burning dynamite in a full race build, 5 to 10k miles maximum on a street engine. There was at one point, a quite thriving rebuild industry around them in the early 60's into the 70's. The one I was looking at was for fitment to a 2006 model year car (it didn't make it into production). The picture at the bottom of this page: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6764656 Seems to indicate a rather different design. With, I assume some sort of a 3 piston squeezer to loosen it enough to put the new shaft in. :) Yes, assembly is an unsolved question. I was imagining that it would probably be possible to wedge/shim the three ball bearings apart, push in the shaft, and then roll the shims out. (Actually, using the lathe 3-jaw chuck to deform the outer ring into the correct shape would probably be easier) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011, andy pugh wrote: Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:04:49 + From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing On 27 November 2011 16:56, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Clear, empty page displayed here. Strange. What does the source say. How about direct links? http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle2.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle3.pdf -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. Thats neat, kind of like a toothless harmonic drive. Reminds me of a rotary-linear translator used for a diffusion furnace boat loader I designed a controller for many many years ago, it had a solid round shaft with the carriage having a triad of ball bearings rolling on the shaft, all canted at a slight angle... -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 7:23 PM, George Lawrence Storm keencoy...@earthlink.net wrote: How about direct links? http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle2.pdf http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle3.pdf All three of the links lead to blank pages. For me, Using Firefox, each link resulted in a download of the specific jpg. Brian -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:26:05 -0800, you wrote: I'd like to engrave some circuit boards, but I'll need to get or make a spindle for the project. I would like to be able to have a tool changer, but I don't recall any tool holders that are appropriate for small high speed spindles. Any suggestions? I have a rotary engraving spindle with a floating head and have made many circuit boards, after making a few I gave up milling them. I could etch 10 boards whilst you are doing one pass with one tool. Even better, I could farm them out to one of the online services - cheap and guaranteed. If it was a one off, I might mill it - but if it was simple I'd just use veroboard Steve Blackmore -- -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 11/27/2011 10:26 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 7 November 2011 04:32, Kent A. Reedknbr...@erols.com wrote: Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I have been thinking about this, and settled down to design a purely mechanical High-Speed spindle for my milling machine. It has a BT30 spindle and, like many oldr machines, a range of speeds, all of which are slow. In this case the are speeds from 46 to 1200 rpm. http://www.bodgesoc.org/HS_Spindle.html It looks a bit of a mess in HTML, but if you download the PDFs and view them in Adobe Reader they look a lot better, and you can pan/tilt/rotate, change to wireframe etc. ... Thanks, Andy, and best of luck realizing your design. The challenges it presents are beyond my present abilities. As for various people reporting they could not open your web pages, I wish such reports would include names/versions of the software involved so we could get an idea what happened. I would guess those having troubles don't have the Adobe Reader plugin installed in their browser, although they should have seen the usual Missing Plug-in message. (Sidebar - It would be nice if browsers were more forthcoming about the incoming data that is giving them heartburn.) I was able to browse your html page with its embedded 3D PDF using Google Chrome 15.0.874.121 m, Apple Safari 5.1.1, Firefox 5.0 and above, Opera 11.52, and, in the interest of fairness, Microsoft Internet Explorer 8.0.6001.18702, all running on an ancient MS Windows XP system with Adobe Reader 10.1.1 installed. On Ubuntu 10.04LTS, I was successful with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.24 and Opera 11.52 once I installed Adobe Reader 9.4.6. I couldn't make a go of it with Chromium 15.0.874.106 (yes, Missing Plug-in), but only because I couldn't sort out how to get Chromium to recognize the Adobe Reader plugin. Maybe when I'm fresh tomorrow. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
Has anyone considered a dental drill? 400,000 RPM! You can get them on eBay (which is kind of scary actually) DougM On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 20:15 -0600, Kasey Matejcek wrote: Has anyone tried to use and RC controller with EMC to run a RC brushless motor They take a pwm control signal from 1ms to 2ms or around there but haven't tried It sound like the have to have a signal on the input when there powered up or the go into disable mode possibly I posted a little bit of RC servo stuff here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RC_Servo_Test I suppose an RC ESC uses the same type of signal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPLdHeRQp_w Since an RC brushless motor is just a three phase motor this link might be of interest too: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BLDC but in this setup EMC2 fills the ESC role. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
You might try posting your query over in the CNCZone too. Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I'll most likely try to get something quick and dirty done, then go from there. At first it won't be anything to write home about, but I'll share what I've done in case it might help. This is a good read. Movie at the end too... http://www.cncathome.com/spindles.html -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 7 November 2011 02:26, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I suppose a draw bar is going to be a problem. How does your current drawbar work? I can imagine thet it might be possible to use the exisiting drawbar actuator for the new spindle. Part of the solution might be to hold the high-speed spindle in place with the 4 tapped holes in the face rather than with the drawbar. There are laminations available with a decent-sized central hole that would allow a through-bore motor to be made. http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0ns=prodshowref=SC+65mmstator I think an ISO10 holder could be made to fit at least partly up inside that, and you could probably still get at the face mounting bolts. However I have not found a drawing which shows them. An Inrunner might package more easily. Rather than a brushless motor, I wonder if gearing up the existing spindle is an option. I have seen a centrifugal supercharger drive which used friction drive to achieve a large speed increase using only a slightly resilient outer drive ring, and slightly-floating-mounted planets. These are almost ready-made for the planet job: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?categories_id=44611_10=9205_121_210=-122_220=9205_2223_230=9205_23x=22y=9extra_field_filter=1 -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 19:59 +1100, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: ... snip This is a good read. Movie at the end too... http://www.cncathome.com/spindles.html ... snip As Paul says in the video, that's pretty cool. The page saves me from finding out the hard way that something is unlikely to work. Thanks for the link Frank. I am tending towards having the same arrangement with the motor offset and driving the spindle with a belt. Then having the draw bar release cylinder offset opposite from the motor and pushing on the bar through a lever. The NMTB 40 taper will be above the spindle on piers. I think I'll stick with the ISO 20 tool holders. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
ISO 20 toolholders are nice, but you may wish to investigate the cost of them before making a commitment. They seem to be less readily available at cheap surplus prices. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Kirk Wallace [mailto:kwall...@wallacecompany.com] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 12:07 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 19:59 +1100, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: ... snip This is a good read. Movie at the end too... http://www.cncathome.com/spindles.html ... snip As Paul says in the video, that's pretty cool. The page saves me from finding out the hard way that something is unlikely to work. Thanks for the link Frank. I am tending towards having the same arrangement with the motor offset and driving the spindle with a belt. Then having the draw bar release cylinder offset opposite from the motor and pushing on the bar through a lever. The NMTB 40 taper will be above the spindle on piers. I think I'll stick with the ISO 20 tool holders. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing - an OT question
On 11/7/2011 3:59 AM, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: You might try posting your query over in the CNCZone too. Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I'll most likely try to get something quick and dirty done, then go from there. At first it won't be anything to write home about, but I'll share what I've done in case it might help. This is a good read. Movie at the end too... http://www.cncathome.com/spindles.html Looking at this website (which I agree is a good read; thanks, Frank) reminds me of a niggling question I've had for some time. What's up with all these die grinders in the marketplace? There can't be that many mold and die makers in the world and I doubt a professional would use any of these consumer-grade tools anyway. Is this just a marketing ploy or do they truly have superior performance? The website in question dismisses the electric ones as basically routers with better bearings. Agree? Regards, Kent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 12:33 +, andy pugh wrote: On 7 November 2011 02:26, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I suppose a draw bar is going to be a problem. How does your current drawbar work? I can imagine thet it might be possible to use the exisiting drawbar actuator for the new spindle. Part of the solution might be to hold the high-speed spindle in place with the 4 tapped holes in the face rather than with the drawbar. I have an electric draw bar like this one: http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/cheap_drawbar.htm It's not very subtle and would make short work of a 20 taper collet. There are laminations available with a decent-sized central hole that would allow a through-bore motor to be made. http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0ns=prodshowref=SC+65mmstator I think an ISO10 holder could be made to fit at least partly up inside that, and you could probably still get at the face mounting bolts. However I have not found a drawing which shows them. http://www.schaublin.ch/catalogues/PO039-042.pdf Usually outrunners are wound to get low RPM. I would most likely need as much speed as possible. Many of the laminations I have seen have odd numbers of poles so would not work. I do see the above stator has a number of poles that evenly divides by three, so would work if I wind six poles in a row. So let's see, 60 RPS = 3600 RPM. Common VFD's go up to 400 Hz to give around 24,000 RPM. That would do nicely. This would be a slam dunk if I didn't want the draw bar and went with ER collets, hmmm. An Inrunner might package more easily. Rather than a brushless motor, I wonder if gearing up the existing spindle is an option. I have seen a centrifugal supercharger drive which used friction drive to achieve a large speed increase using only a slightly resilient outer drive ring, and slightly-floating-mounted planets. These are almost ready-made for the planet job: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?categories_id=44611_10=9205_121_210=-122_220=9205_2223_230=9205_23x=22y=9extra_field_filter=1 I found this: http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_acc_speeder.html I suppose a smooth belt from the main spindle to an offset idler axle then a belt back to an on-axis secondary spindle would work, but then there would be no fancy high-tech electronics involved. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 7 November 2011 17:58, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I have an electric draw bar like this one: http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/cheap_drawbar.htm It's not very subtle and would make short work of a 20 taper collet. Possibly not, if it was simply operating a bolt into the CAT40 adaptor, pushing-off a Belville stack. face mounting bolts. However I have not found a drawing which shows them. http://www.schaublin.ch/catalogues/PO039-042.pdf That does seem to be a good example of one of the many documents not showing the bolt holes, yes :-) According to my Machineries handbook, NMTB40 has two dogs in the face, and also 4 x 1/2 x 13 tapped holes. Mounting to those would allow you to poke alternative drawbar arrangements down the hole (and would preclude using the power-drawbar for fast loading and unloading the high speed spindle. So let's see, 60 RPS = 3600 RPM. Common VFD's go up to 400 Hz to give around 24,000 RPM. That would do nicely. This would be a slam dunk if I didn't want the draw bar and went with ER collets, Can you use a VFD with a BLDC? I am pretty sure that Pete has run his BLDC drives in a 5k servo thread, which might get you 400Hz of commutation. I found this: http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_acc_speeder.html I suppose a smooth belt from the main spindle to an offset idler axle then a belt back to an on-axis secondary spindle would work, but then there would be no fancy high-tech electronics involved. I was imagining something similar, but cleverer. :-) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 18:33 +, andy pugh wrote: ... snip I was imagining something similar, but cleverer. :-) ... snip I just had a vision of using two stators, one with its matching rotor connected to the main spindle and poles wired UVWUVWUVWUVWUVWUVW. The other wired UUVVWW and drives the rotor on the secondary spindle giving an six to one generator Hz to motor RPM ratio. The draw bar cylinder would be mounted between the upper generator and lower motor. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing - an OT question
I've been using one for years in my hobby router. I've just replaced it with a Chinese spindle, but haven't cut anything yet. I have a Bosch GGS 27LC, won on ebay. With its straight long neck it is easy to mount. It has variable speed from 12k to 24k. Run-out is awesome. Never broken a PCB drill while using it. I've done wood and aluminium with it too. 3mm, 1/8, 6mm, 1/4, 8mm collets, which are a bit pricey though. It's very noisy. It's going to be demoted to the occasional die grinding, and I'll make a mount for my lathe too. I don't have air in my room, so electric is perfect. -Original Message- From: Kent A. Reed [mailto:knbr...@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 4:57 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing - an OT question On 11/7/2011 3:59 AM, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: You might try posting your query over in the CNCZone too. Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I'll most likely try to get something quick and dirty done, then go from there. At first it won't be anything to write home about, but I'll share what I've done in case it might help. This is a good read. Movie at the end too... http://www.cncathome.com/spindles.html Looking at this website (which I agree is a good read; thanks, Frank) reminds me of a niggling question I've had for some time. What's up with all these die grinders in the marketplace? There can't be that many mold and die makers in the world and I doubt a professional would use any of these consumer-grade tools anyway. Is this just a marketing ploy or do they truly have superior performance? The website in question dismisses the electric ones as basically routers with better bearings. Agree? Regards, Kent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 7 November 2011 19:16, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I just had a vision of using two stators, one with its matching rotor connected to the main spindle and poles wired UVWUVWUVWUVWUVWUVW. The other wired UUVVWW and drives the rotor on the secondary spindle giving an six to one generator Hz to motor RPM ratio. The draw bar cylinder would be mounted between the upper generator and lower motor. Could you do that with one stator, and two rotors with different magnet arrangements? (Note that the question is could you not should you :-) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 19:42 +, andy pugh wrote: On 7 November 2011 19:16, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I just had a vision of using two stators, one with its matching rotor connected to the main spindle and poles wired UVWUVWUVWUVWUVWUVW. The other wired UUVVWW and drives the rotor on the secondary spindle giving an six to one generator Hz to motor RPM ratio. The draw bar cylinder would be mounted between the upper generator and lower motor. Could you do that with one stator, and two rotors with different magnet arrangements? (Note that the question is could you not should you :-) No, I think the rotor and stator pole spacings need to match. The generator pole spacing is much tighter. The wire sizes and turns count might be different too. I was half joking with this idea, but it might work. Here is a rough drawing: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/Shiz_Speeder-1a.png -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 12:15 -0500, Steve Stallings wrote: ISO 20 toolholders are nice, but you may wish to investigate the cost of them before making a commitment. They seem to be less readily available at cheap surplus prices. Steve Stallings I'll probably try to make my own holders, like Paul did. Oops, now I need to make a grinder. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
Has anyone tried to use and RC controller with EMC to run a RC brushless motor They take a pwm control signal from 1ms to 2ms or around there but haven't tried It sound like the have to have a signal on the input when there powered up or the go into disable mode possibly On 7 November 2011 02:26, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: I suppose a draw bar is going to be a problem. How does your current drawbar work? I can imagine thet it might be possible to use the exisiting drawbar actuator for the new spindle. Part of the solution might be to hold the high-speed spindle in place with the 4 tapped holes in the face rather than with the drawbar. I have an electric draw bar like this one: http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/cheap_drawbar.htm It's not very subtle and would make short work of a 20 taper collet. There are laminations available with a decent-sized central hole that would allow a through-bore motor to be made. http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0ns=prodshowref=SC+ 65mmstator I think an ISO10 holder could be made to fit at least partly up inside that, and you could probably still get at the face mounting bolts. However I have not found a drawing which shows them. http://www.schaublin.ch/catalogues/PO039-042.pdf Usually outrunners are wound to get low RPM. I would most likely need as much speed as possible. Many of the laminations I have seen have odd numbers of poles so would not work. I do see the above stator has a number of poles that evenly divides by three, so would work if I wind six poles in a row. So let's see, 60 RPS = 3600 RPM. Common VFD's go up to 400 Hz to give around 24,000 RPM. That would do nicely. This would be a slam dunk if I didn't want the draw bar and went with ER collets, hmmm. An Inrunner might package more easily. Rather than a brushless motor, I wonder if gearing up the existing spindle is an option. I have seen a centrifugal supercharger drive which used friction drive to achieve a large speed increase using only a slightly resilient outer drive ring, and slightly-floating-mounted planets. These are almost ready-made for the planet job: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?categories _id=44611_10=9205_121_210=-122_220=9205_2223_230=9205_23x=22y=9 extra_field_filter=1 I found this: http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_acc_speeder.html I suppose a smooth belt from the main spindle to an offset idler axle then a belt back to an on-axis secondary spindle would work, but then there would be no fancy high-tech electronics involved. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing - an OT question
.snip. It's very noisy. The reason I went with the HF die grider was the shear weight of the -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing - an OT question
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:15 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN glackin.br...@gmail.comwrote: .snip. It's very noisy. The reason I went with the HF die grider was the shear weight of the G - fingers hitting wrong keys My reason was the DG was soo much lighter reducing the gantry mass and the minimum amount of cooling air used by the grinder (minimizes dust dispersion). My die grinder was also soo much quieter than the router. I don't know how that compares with the Bosch DG. Brian -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 20:15 -0600, Kasey Matejcek wrote: Has anyone tried to use and RC controller with EMC to run a RC brushless motor They take a pwm control signal from 1ms to 2ms or around there but haven't tried It sound like the have to have a signal on the input when there powered up or the go into disable mode possibly I posted a little bit of RC servo stuff here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RC_Servo_Test I suppose an RC ESC uses the same type of signal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPLdHeRQp_w Since an RC brushless motor is just a three phase motor this link might be of interest too: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BLDC but in this setup EMC2 fills the ESC role. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 18:26 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: I'd like to engrave some circuit boards, but I'll need to get or make a spindle for the project. I would like to be able to have a tool changer, but I don't recall any tool holders that are appropriate for small high speed spindles. Any suggestions? Part of my plan is to cut a pocket into one of my junk NMTB 40 holders to mount a small motor (outrunner? but not LRK) with spindle grade bearings and the appropriate tool holder taper and retainer, making it a live tool holder. Has anyone seen anything like this? I suppose a draw bar is going to be a problem. I suppose engraving is not accurate for what I want. It's probably more accurate to say I want to route and drill PC boards, plus general high speed milling, routing and engraving, so more of a small all around spindle. It's looking like ISO-10 or ISO-20 might do it. Also to clarify, the small spindle and the current NMTB 40 spindle have to be on the same axis, otherwise, for example, with the small spindle offset on an arm, the small rotary slop in the main spindle will produce slop in the X-Y plane. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On 11/6/2011 9:26 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: I'd like to engrave some circuit boards, but I'll need to get or make a spindle for the project. I would like to be able to have a tool changer, but I don't recall any tool holders that are appropriate for small high speed spindles. Any suggestions? Part of my plan is to cut a pocket into one of my junk NMTB 40 holders to mount a small motor (outrunner? but not LRK) with spindle grade bearings and the appropriate tool holder taper and retainer, making it a live tool holder. Has anyone seen anything like this? I suppose a draw bar is going to be a problem. Wow, Kirk. I'm amazed at the breadth of projects you've talked about. I came across a nice, if perhaps too general, 2-part discussion that begins with http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/part-i-spindles-and-their-relationship-to-high-speed-toolholders They don't show any examples of the kind of tooling system you seem to have in mind nor do I recall seeing anything in my random walks around the web. You might try posting your query over in the CNCZone too. Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) Regards, Kent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engaver Tool Changing
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 23:32 -0500, Kent A. Reed wrote: ... snip I'm amazed at the breadth of projects you've talked about. I need to do more doing. I am in a spot where in order to get one project done (carousel), I need to do another (clean up wiring), which needs another (make PC boards), etceterta. I came across a nice, if perhaps too general, 2-part discussion that begins with http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/part-i-spindles-and-their-relationship-to-high-speed-toolholders That's good stuff, but when I said high speed spindle, I just meant higher than the 3.5k RPM I can normally get from my mill. They don't show any examples of the kind of tooling system you seem to have in mind nor do I recall seeing anything in my random walks around the web. You might try posting your query over in the CNCZone too. Once you've settled on an approach I hope you'll provide pictures for the rest of us to ooh and aah over :-) I'll most likely try to get something quick and dirty done, then go from there. At first it won't be anything to write home about, but I'll share what I've done in case it might help. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
