Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
If I remember back in the distant past, the number one rule for Fidonet (an early predecessor to the Internet) was - "Do not offend, do not be easily offended." Both parts of that rule go hand in hand and feed on each other. Both are equally important. You can't help but offend those that are easily offended, they make it really hard to not offend them. All you can do is don't try to offend those that are not easily offended. On the other hand, don't be offended by people that are not trying to offend you. Following that rule in the spirit it was intended means that only the easily offended get offended, and they are breaking the rule, so deserve what they get. I have no problem with the way raster runs his own project, and I've been around for years. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:19:01 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri said: > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Jonathan Armani wrote: > > > Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / > > process anymore. > > raster, Jonathan was enthousiastic in porting e17 on OpenBSD. Now, if he > is still interested in using e17 (that's even not sure anymore), he will > just keep his patch privately, which is BAD. > > I try to be nice and polite, to talk about the EFL, e17, to attract > people so that they join our forces (and yes, i have really attracted new > people in IRC channels !). Now, you're repulsing them ! Fuck ! Just for > some patches that are not correctly written, you just upset people. at no point was i rude. i wasn't all lovey-dovey hug the world, but i wasn't rude. i talked about the patches. > Instead of saying more or less "your patches suck, we don't want them", > why not saying "hmm these patches are not good, because etc.. can you > please rewrite them that way ?" Is it too much for you, to be a bit polite > ??? that IS WHAT I WROTE. did anyone actually read it? ok - i didn't use "not good" i used "bad". same thing. the WORST thing i said was "they have to be kicked for that" - the breaking of api. that means current openbsd packages have broken api's. mayube "just patch blindly" might have pissed them off... but it's true - api breaks along which lots of the diffs were busy fixing up in apps and other libs were done blindly - without looking around wider at the impact that kind of thing has. "the colro get patch alone is a totally wrong direction" might have offended.. wow.. buy saying its the totally wrong direction?... i have a good memory of what i said.. and i have a log. point out to me where exactly i was RUDE. where i called them "idiots" or "fools" or any kind of deorgatory term. tell me where i said "all their shit stinks" or any such term that's what armani, and kakaroto are saying i did. i DIDNT.; read the logs. i'm not apologizing for what i didn't do. if someone takes offense at someone saying their work is bad - well too bad. that's the reality. they should grow up and accept it, or give good reasons why the evaluation was wrong. the evaluation was very specific on specific aspects of the patches. armani did make a point about the mempool stuff - i pointed out that their patches were much greater thanneeded > Also, to be clear, I contact you on IRC about the private discussion I had > with Jonathan, talking to you about those patches. I clearly said that > some patches can be committed as-is, and some don't. I have warned you !! you asked me to look at them - that's fine. how am i meant to know exactly which ones you have already filtered out? > Now, I understand a bit more how I have to do the work : I don't talk to > you about stuff I know you won't be interested in (if you were > interesting in OpenBSD port, you won't have overreact like that). I'll do > it myself (like I did before I talked to you about those patches, it was > working nicely), talking privately to people, so that we could move on. god - why is everyone twisting this into something it wasn't. i never said that. if i didn't care i would not have even looked when you asked. > I'm really really upset to see all my "behind the scene" work to attract > people destroyed, and to finally see that you make them leave to project. > > No need to answer to that mail. I won't read your answer. I don't want to > spend endless time answering for nothing. > > Vincent very childish there. but you won't read this will you? > > > > End of topic. > > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Carsten Haitzler > > wrote: > >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:37 -0500 Youness Alaoui > >> said: > >> > >>> I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an > >>> endless war on who is right). > >> > >> then this ends this topic. if you don't want to look at the facts, there > >> is no point in this discussion. there is nothing to talk about with you. > >> > >> -- > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> Register now > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> ___ > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> > > > > -- > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > Register now > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlight
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:41:26 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri said: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Jonathan Armani wrote: > > > >> Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / > >> process anymore. > > :-( > > > raster, Jonathan was enthousiastic in porting e17 on OpenBSD. Now, if he is > > still interested in using e17 (that's even not sure anymore), he will just > > keep his patch privately, which is BAD. > > > > I try to be nice and polite, to talk about the EFL, e17, to attract people > > so that they join our forces (and yes, i have really attracted new people > > in IRC channels !). Now, you're repulsing them ! Fuck ! Just for some > > patches that are not correctly written, you just upset people. > > > > Instead of saying more or less "your patches suck, we don't want them", why > > not saying "hmm these patches are not good, because etc.. can you please > > rewrite them that way ?" Is it too much for you, to be a bit polite ??? > > > > Also, to be clear, I contact you on IRC about the private discussion I had > > with Jonathan, talking to you about those patches. I clearly said that some > > patches can be committed as-is, and some don't. I have warned you !! > > > > Now, I understand a bit more how I have to do the work : I don't talk to > > you about stuff I know you won't be interested in (if you were interesting > > in OpenBSD port, you won't have overreact like that). I'll do it myself > > (like I did before I talked to you about those patches, it was working > > nicely), talking privately to people, so that we could move on. > > > > I'm really really upset to see all my "behind the scene" work to attract > > people destroyed, and to finally see that you make them leave to project. > > > > No need to answer to that mail. I won't read your answer. I don't want to > > spend endless time answering for nothing. > > +1 for Vincent's mail. > > Raster, please try to improve your personal skills. Your attitude will > get us nowhere. > > And to be fair, if we apply this same attitude to everyone, your > Edje-multisense patch would never get in. But it got, even tho people > kindly asked you to remove it. You didn't. That's all right, but then > do not act like that with Jonathan. > > See why "releases won't get us more developers?" Just being close to > one (even close being undefined), we got one guy investing his spare > time to help -> THIS IS HELP BROUGHT BY RELEASE. But even before the > release we already scared him away :-( > > > Jonathan, if there is still time, please reconsider your decision and > keep working with us. Fortunately this project is not just about > raster. If Vincent says he'll help you, he will do and Raster has > nothing to do with it. If you need something feel free to ping me at > IRC (k-s). did you READ the log? you didn't i assume like everyone else. armani has a very thin skin and simply got pissed off at someone saying the patches (which many he didn't even write, but he took offence anyway) were bad. hell no - i'm not apologizing for something i didn't do. READ THE LOG. i've read it over now severla times looking for thigns that may be offensive. the only thing i find is the general tone of "the patches are bad" and with specific pointers to what is bad and why. that is called review. that's how it works. read the log! > Best Regards, > -- > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > http://profusion.mobi embedded systems > -- > MSN: barbi...@gmail.com > Skype: gsbarbieri > Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Jonathan Armani wrote: > >> Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / >> process anymore. :-( > raster, Jonathan was enthousiastic in porting e17 on OpenBSD. Now, if he is > still interested in using e17 (that's even not sure anymore), he will just > keep his patch privately, which is BAD. > > I try to be nice and polite, to talk about the EFL, e17, to attract people so > that they join our forces (and yes, i have really attracted new people in IRC > channels !). Now, you're repulsing them ! Fuck ! Just for some patches that > are not correctly written, you just upset people. > > Instead of saying more or less "your patches suck, we don't want them", why > not saying "hmm these patches are not good, because etc.. can you please > rewrite them that way ?" Is it too much for you, to be a bit polite ??? > > Also, to be clear, I contact you on IRC about the private discussion I had > with Jonathan, talking to you about those patches. I clearly said that some > patches can be committed as-is, and some don't. I have warned you !! > > Now, I understand a bit more how I have to do the work : I don't talk to you > about stuff I know you won't be interested in (if you were interesting in > OpenBSD port, you won't have overreact like that). I'll do it myself (like I > did before I talked to you about those patches, it was working nicely), > talking privately to people, so that we could move on. > > I'm really really upset to see all my "behind the scene" work to attract > people destroyed, and to finally see that you make them leave to project. > > No need to answer to that mail. I won't read your answer. I don't want to > spend endless time answering for nothing. +1 for Vincent's mail. Raster, please try to improve your personal skills. Your attitude will get us nowhere. And to be fair, if we apply this same attitude to everyone, your Edje-multisense patch would never get in. But it got, even tho people kindly asked you to remove it. You didn't. That's all right, but then do not act like that with Jonathan. See why "releases won't get us more developers?" Just being close to one (even close being undefined), we got one guy investing his spare time to help -> THIS IS HELP BROUGHT BY RELEASE. But even before the release we already scared him away :-( Jonathan, if there is still time, please reconsider your decision and keep working with us. Fortunately this project is not just about raster. If Vincent says he'll help you, he will do and Raster has nothing to do with it. If you need something feel free to ping me at IRC (k-s). Best Regards, -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Jonathan Armani wrote: Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / process anymore. raster, Jonathan was enthousiastic in porting e17 on OpenBSD. Now, if he is still interested in using e17 (that's even not sure anymore), he will just keep his patch privately, which is BAD. I try to be nice and polite, to talk about the EFL, e17, to attract people so that they join our forces (and yes, i have really attracted new people in IRC channels !). Now, you're repulsing them ! Fuck ! Just for some patches that are not correctly written, you just upset people. Instead of saying more or less "your patches suck, we don't want them", why not saying "hmm these patches are not good, because etc.. can you please rewrite them that way ?" Is it too much for you, to be a bit polite ??? Also, to be clear, I contact you on IRC about the private discussion I had with Jonathan, talking to you about those patches. I clearly said that some patches can be committed as-is, and some don't. I have warned you !! Now, I understand a bit more how I have to do the work : I don't talk to you about stuff I know you won't be interested in (if you were interesting in OpenBSD port, you won't have overreact like that). I'll do it myself (like I did before I talked to you about those patches, it was working nicely), talking privately to people, so that we could move on. I'm really really upset to see all my "behind the scene" work to attract people destroyed, and to finally see that you make them leave to project. No need to answer to that mail. I won't read your answer. I don't want to spend endless time answering for nothing. Vincent End of topic. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:37 -0500 Youness Alaoui said: I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an endless war on who is right). then this ends this topic. if you don't want to look at the facts, there is no point in this discussion. there is nothing to talk about with you. -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / process anymore. End of topic. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:37 -0500 Youness Alaoui > said: > >> I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an >> endless war on who is right). > > then this ends this topic. if you don't want to look at the facts, there is no > point in this discussion. there is nothing to talk about with you. > > -- > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:37 -0500 Youness Alaoui said: > I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an > endless war on who is right). then this ends this topic. if you don't want to look at the facts, there is no point in this discussion. there is nothing to talk about with you. -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:55:14 -0500 Youness Alaoui > said: > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > > said: > > > > > > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > > > there's > > > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, > might be > > > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there > on > > > irc, > > > nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > > > seriously, what's up with you? > > > > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to > > "reminds me..." wasn't? > "reminds me" was about a different thread that I suppose (hope) you remember, which correlates what this guy's opinion was. > > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to > > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll > > realize that your own attitude is a problem. > > maybe you should read this: > > http://www.enlightenment.org/~raster/e.fr.txt > > whatever. i was asked to review - i was talking to vtorri about the > patches and > going "eh? wtf? why did they change api? that's really bad! why do all this > work to disable chained_mempool?..." armani turned up and got offended at > me > having ... oh dear.. a negative opinion of the patches... gasp. shock. > horror. > how dare someone think negatively of them~ yes. everyone is a hero and > everyone > is #1. no one can ever do anything bad/wrong. we must praise everyone at > all > times. > I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an endless war on who is right). And again, it's not about your criticism of the patches, it's about the way you say it. I don't know how you said it, but in the end, the contributor was offended, and my point was that the way you said it offends people. > > if you actually READ the exchange my comments boiled down to: > * evaluating patches with some level of bewilderment at many of them. > * expressing exasperation that these patches were being used for openbsd > builds > and breaking api without talking to us - wishing they'd come and discuss. > remember this is the FIRST i saw of these patches when vincent pointed me > to > them to have a look/review. > * saying that tarballs and svn checkouts are the same and you have to > invest > time to make tarballs, test, make announcements etc. to raise the quality > and > that isn't appreciably better than an svn checkout. > * saying that i was still at work, busy and i have no time and then being > given > the "well i'm a cto and you have a haughty tone" lines. if anything i > should be > offended at someone pretty much not caring that i'm busy and pulling the > "well > i'm busy too" line implying that it's irrelevant and i should just do as > requested. > > of course without any knowledge of the conversation you are instantly > deciding > i'm going off and saying things i didn't. i didn't say anything like "you > are a > bunch of useless people" or "you'll never get those patches right - give > up". i > gave a frank and direct evaluation without sugarcoating. people who cannot > handle that are going to have trouble in every FOSS project out there. the > patch evaluations from them are pretty much the same as what i did. > It doesn't matter if your comments were right or not, the way you say them is bad, that's all I'm saying, and I'm not the only one saying that. > > > > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how > wonderful! so > > > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to > > > see. > > > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps > not > > > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > > > breakage > > > added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more > > > patches > > > just like that!". > > > > > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were > patches, > > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is > > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away > all > > the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > you need to learn to actually understand the topic before spouting your > opinions. you were not there for the conversation. for your reference i > linked > to it above. you didn't see the patches being reviewed so again - how can > you > comment? how can you know that the review was justified based on the > content? > Again, nothing to do with the review, the end result is what I commented on, the guy was pissed/annoyed/offended/whatever,
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:55:14 -0500 Youness Alaoui said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > said: > > > > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > > there's > > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on > > irc, > > nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > > seriously, what's up with you? > > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to "reminds me..." wasn't? > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll > realize that your own attitude is a problem. maybe you should read this: http://www.enlightenment.org/~raster/e.fr.txt whatever. i was asked to review - i was talking to vtorri about the patches and going "eh? wtf? why did they change api? that's really bad! why do all this work to disable chained_mempool?..." armani turned up and got offended at me having ... oh dear.. a negative opinion of the patches... gasp. shock. horror. how dare someone think negatively of them~ yes. everyone is a hero and everyone is #1. no one can ever do anything bad/wrong. we must praise everyone at all times. if you actually READ the exchange my comments boiled down to: * evaluating patches with some level of bewilderment at many of them. * expressing exasperation that these patches were being used for openbsd builds and breaking api without talking to us - wishing they'd come and discuss. remember this is the FIRST i saw of these patches when vincent pointed me to them to have a look/review. * saying that tarballs and svn checkouts are the same and you have to invest time to make tarballs, test, make announcements etc. to raise the quality and that isn't appreciably better than an svn checkout. * saying that i was still at work, busy and i have no time and then being given the "well i'm a cto and you have a haughty tone" lines. if anything i should be offended at someone pretty much not caring that i'm busy and pulling the "well i'm busy too" line implying that it's irrelevant and i should just do as requested. of course without any knowledge of the conversation you are instantly deciding i'm going off and saying things i didn't. i didn't say anything like "you are a bunch of useless people" or "you'll never get those patches right - give up". i gave a frank and direct evaluation without sugarcoating. people who cannot handle that are going to have trouble in every FOSS project out there. the patch evaluations from them are pretty much the same as what i did. > > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so > > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to > > see. > > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > > breakage > > added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more > > patches > > just like that!". > > > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were patches, > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away all > the contributors and end up alone in the project. you need to learn to actually understand the topic before spouting your opinions. you were not there for the conversation. for your reference i linked to it above. you didn't see the patches being reviewed so again - how can you comment? how can you know that the review was justified based on the content? > > and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and > > if > > its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that > > was > > my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at > > least > > some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a > > mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so > > unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in > > trunk > > (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made > > every > > day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing > > just > > bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if they want a > tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", well it > should always build, noone should even commit anything without testing his > work
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:55:46 -0500 Youness Alaoui said: so you've basically proven my point - it's the same as an svn checkout... and that script still doesn't upload them, or make any announcement that they have been created. it's actually less useful than make distc (or distcheck) and much longer. there is no quality checking there... and which point it's busywork. > Here, I just wrote a script : > http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/devs/kakaroto/create_tarballs.sh > > It defaults to building tarballs for eina eet evas ecore embryo edje efreet > e_dbus eeze (list suggested by Vincent), but you can specify any libs you > want as arguments. > It does the svn export (no .svn dirs) autogens then tars them. I didn't > make it do a make distcheck because that requires a Makefile, which > requires configure to run, which itself will require dependent libraries. > This should be enough for the purposes of providing a simple mechanism (a > tarball) to those who do not want to bother with checking out svn. > If this could go into whatever server as a cron job, and make it dump the > tarballs to a directory somewhere (and let the web server's indexing take > care of listing the files), I think that should be enough. > Jonathan, let me know if that's all you need or if you need something else. > And if Carsten was right and you need a guarantee that those tarballs are > 'tested and stable', then let the answer be "yes", and let's just assume it > is stable, the code in svn should be stable and we are in feature freeze > already.. also that's what we all use daily so it should be fine. > > I hope that helps. > Youness. > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Youness Alaoui < > kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > > wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > >> said: > >> > >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > >> > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > >> there's > >> > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might > >> be > >> > good to use these awesome technologies. > >> > >> hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on > >> irc, > >> nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > >> seriously, what's up with you? > >> > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to > > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to > > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll > > realize that your own attitude is a problem. > > > > > >> do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! > >> so > >> awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to > >> see. > >> we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > >> working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > >> breakage > >> added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more > >> patches > >> just like that!". > >> > >> if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > >> > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were patches, > > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is > > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away all > > the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > > > > > > >> > >> and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. > >> and if > >> its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. > >> that was > >> my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at > >> least > >> some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a > >> mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so > >> unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in > >> trunk > >> (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made > >> every > >> day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing > >> just > >> bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > >> > > > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if they want > > a tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", well it > > should always build, noone should even commit anything without testing his > > work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage does > > happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's still > > fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one from > > tomorrow". > > There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a build > > system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so they > > prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just change >
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Here, I just wrote a script : http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/devs/kakaroto/create_tarballs.sh It defaults to building tarballs for eina eet evas ecore embryo edje efreet e_dbus eeze (list suggested by Vincent), but you can specify any libs you want as arguments. It does the svn export (no .svn dirs) autogens then tars them. I didn't make it do a make distcheck because that requires a Makefile, which requires configure to run, which itself will require dependent libraries. This should be enough for the purposes of providing a simple mechanism (a tarball) to those who do not want to bother with checking out svn. If this could go into whatever server as a cron job, and make it dump the tarballs to a directory somewhere (and let the web server's indexing take care of listing the files), I think that should be enough. Jonathan, let me know if that's all you need or if you need something else. And if Carsten was right and you need a guarantee that those tarballs are 'tested and stable', then let the answer be "yes", and let's just assume it is stable, the code in svn should be stable and we are in feature freeze already.. also that's what we all use daily so it should be fine. I hope that helps. Youness. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Youness Alaoui < kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui >> said: >> >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... >> > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why >> there's >> > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might >> be >> > good to use these awesome technologies. >> >> hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on >> irc, >> nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). >> seriously, what's up with you? >> > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll > realize that your own attitude is a problem. > > >> do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! >> so >> awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to >> see. >> we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not >> working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi >> breakage >> added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more >> patches >> just like that!". >> >> if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. >> > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were patches, > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away all > the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > > >> >> and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. >> and if >> its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. >> that was >> my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at >> least >> some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a >> mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so >> unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in >> trunk >> (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made >> every >> day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing >> just >> bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". >> > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if they want > a tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", well it > should always build, noone should even commit anything without testing his > work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage does > happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's still > fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one from > tomorrow". > There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a build > system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so they > prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just change > the URL instead of changing the whole system of downloading the image... > And it's not about "svn is unstable" mentality, it's about "tarballs are > more convenient". > As for the scripts, no you don't have to write and test those, you can say > "ok fine, someone write it and we'll put it on the server as a cron job", > if noone does write the script for you, then too bad for them, it's not > your responsability. If you wanted, I would have made the script myself.. > we already have a script that creates a svn tarball everyday for aMSN, you > could reuse the same scri
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > said: > > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > there's > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on > irc, > nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > seriously, what's up with you? > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll realize that your own attitude is a problem. > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to > see. > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > breakage > added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more > patches > just like that!". > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were patches, I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away all the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and > if > its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that > was > my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at > least > some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a > mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so > unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in > trunk > (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made > every > day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing > just > bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if they want a tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", well it should always build, noone should even commit anything without testing his work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage does happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's still fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one from tomorrow". There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a build system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so they prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just change the URL instead of changing the whole system of downloading the image... And it's not about "svn is unstable" mentality, it's about "tarballs are more convenient". As for the scripts, no you don't have to write and test those, you can say "ok fine, someone write it and we'll put it on the server as a cron job", if noone does write the script for you, then too bad for them, it's not your responsability. If you wanted, I would have made the script myself.. we already have a script that creates a svn tarball everyday for aMSN, you could reuse the same script basically, and I could adapt it to the EFL. It's the same as svn? yeah, so what? it's better to help them by giving out the tarball even if it's the same as svn rather than telling them to fuck off. > > > > > if they require tarballs to > > > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't > have > > > the > > > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch > from > > > svn. > > > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on > our > > > part. > > > > > > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will > be > > > ok. > > > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > > > > final archive. > > > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told > me > > > that > > > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > > > >> > > > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > > > mental > > > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an > unwillingness to > > > use it > > > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > > > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > > > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > > > > > > >> > > > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different >
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:36:07 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > said: > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: >> > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: >> >> 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : >> >> The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. >> >>> >> >>> make distcheck... >> >>> >> >> >> >> And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS >> >> for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. >> > >> > make distcheck || exit 1 >> > >> > that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. >> > You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying >> > message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly >> >> Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many >> things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that >> was changed with a typo. >> >> I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at >> least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems >> found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. > > yup. we'll make some alpha tarballs once its ready - as such we still need to > fix up readme's, news files etc. anyway, and i was going to disable multisense > in edje - but haven't gone there yet, so just haven't done it yet. definitely > no > "daily snapshots" - you can do per minute snaps if u want from svn :) tarballs > will come. :) If you want, I will have time Sunday to do an alpha tarball of all that stuff. It's still an open source project and all developers can help you get this out, no need to put everything on you. -- Cedric BAIL -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. make distcheck... And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. make distcheck || exit 1 that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that was changed with a typo. same problem when we release, so... Release is basically : we update version, some file, make distcheck, we copy the tarball somewhere. Nah, you usually test releases to make sure they actually work, instead of just firing make and uploading the package if it didn't fail. we can say : hey, here are dayly snapshot, these are compiling but must not work correctly". And you gave the list of dayly snapshot note that i wanted to do that for the freeze period. I don't see why you're relunctant to an automated process that requires 0s of work, except the basic shell script. But when that thread will end, the freeze period will be over... I'm not reluctant to doing that, I'm keeping this within the context of the original request. The freeze for the release ends next week, so the release will happen around that time. I don't think setting up such a system now makes sense within that context, but if it gets done for the long term it's fine. the plan was to integrate such process in ebuilder, a program written in ruby by Philippe Caseiro to compile on several hosts, with different options to configure, sending mails if something wrong happens, with beautiful html pages which shows the problems, and plenty of other stuff It's not finished. If some people know ruby and want to help, contact Philippe Vincent Vincent Vincent I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:01:31 +0100 Jonathan Armani said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > said: > > > >> Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > >> As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's > >> something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > >> good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on > > irc, nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > > seriously, what's up with you? > > > > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so > > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to see. > > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > > breakage added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make > > more patches just like that!". > > > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > > I accept without problem the critisism on these diff (note and look at > the commit these are > not from me). But that is my personnal git, and it contains > experimental diff and these will never > go in tree if they are not ok. > > I never asked a review of these ... vincent did. if he hadn't - i would never have looked. > But yeah once again you're right, all this work is shit on shit and > the OpenBSD team is only capable > of breaking your stuff. i never said that or anything close to it. i'm not busy praising the good catches - it's rare to ever see praise in any open source project for patches, but you can expect hell for bad ones. i accept now that you didn't submit them - fine. but i was asked by vincent to look and thus... they got comments. > > and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and > > if its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. > > that was my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and > > spend at least some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is > > my point on a mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn > > trunk must be so unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just > > because its in trunk (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable > > and a tarball made every day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process > > of freezing and fixing just bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; > > scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > >> > > if they require tarballs to > >> > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't > >> > >> have > >> > the > >> > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from > >> > svn. > >> > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > >> > part. > >> > > > >> > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be > >> > ok. > >> > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > >> > > final archive. > >> > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me > >> > that > >> > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > >> > >> > >> > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > >> > mental > >> > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness > >> > >> to > >> > use it > >> > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > >> > > > >> > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > >> > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > >> > matter - but > >> > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > >> > have. > >> > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > >> > merged them > >> > >> into a single efl tree. > >> > >> > >> > >>> Vincent > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > -- > >> > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> > >>> Register now > >> > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> > >>> ___ > >> > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > >> > >> -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) > >> > >> ras...@rasterman.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: > >> 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: >> >> 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. >>> >>> make distcheck... >>> >> >> And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the >> OBS >> for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. > > make distcheck || exit 1 > > that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at > all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script > displaying > message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that was changed with a typo. >>> >>> same problem when we release, so... Release is basically : we update >>> version, some file, make distcheck, we copy the tarball somewhere. >>> >> >> Nah, you usually test releases to make sure they actually work, instead >> of just firing make and uploading the package if it didn't fail. > > we can say : hey, here are dayly snapshot, these are compiling but must not > work correctly". And you gave the list of dayly snapshot > > note that i wanted to do that for the freeze period. I don't see why you're > relunctant to an automated process that requires 0s of work, except the > basic shell script. > > But when that thread will end, the freeze period will be over... > I'm not reluctant to doing that, I'm keeping this within the context of the original request. The freeze for the release ends next week, so the release will happen around that time. I don't think setting up such a system now makes sense within that context, but if it gets done for the long term it's fine. > Vincent > >> >>> Vincent >>> I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 >>> Register now >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >>> ___ >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> Register now >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> ___ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > said: > >> Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... >> As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's >> something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be >> good to use these awesome technologies. > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on irc, > nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > seriously, what's up with you? > > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to see. > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > breakage > added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more patches > just like that!". > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. I accept without problem the critisism on these diff (note and look at the commit these are not from me). But that is my personnal git, and it contains experimental diff and these will never go in tree if they are not ok. I never asked a review of these ... But yeah once again you're right, all this work is shit on shit and the OpenBSD team is only capable of breaking your stuff. > > and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and if > its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that was > my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at least > some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a > mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so > unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in trunk > (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made every > day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing just > bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > >> > > if they require tarballs to >> > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have >> > the >> > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from >> > svn. >> > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our >> > part. >> > > >> > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be >> > ok. >> > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the >> > > final archive. >> > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me >> > that >> > >>> such snapshots will help him too. >> > >> >> > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a >> > mental >> > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to >> > use it >> > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. >> > > >> > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I >> > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. >> > > >> > >> >> > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different >> > matter - but >> > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we >> > have. >> > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just >> > merged them >> > >> into a single efl tree. >> > >> >> > >>> Vincent >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >> > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> > >>> Register now >> > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> > >>> ___ >> > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- >> > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> > >> Register now >> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> > >> ___ >> > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > -- >> > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> > > Save $700 by Nov 18 >> > > Register now >> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> > > ___ >> > > enlightenment-devel mai
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. make distcheck... And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. make distcheck || exit 1 that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that was changed with a typo. same problem when we release, so... Release is basically : we update version, some file, make distcheck, we copy the tarball somewhere. Nah, you usually test releases to make sure they actually work, instead of just firing make and uploading the package if it didn't fail. we can say : hey, here are dayly snapshot, these are compiling but must not work correctly". And you gave the list of dayly snapshot note that i wanted to do that for the freeze period. I don't see why you're relunctant to an automated process that requires 0s of work, except the basic shell script. But when that thread will end, the freeze period will be over... Vincent Vincent I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri >> wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : >> >> The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. > > make distcheck... > And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. >>> >>> make distcheck || exit 1 >>> >>> that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at >>> all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying >>> message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly >> >> Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many >> things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that >> was changed with a typo. > > same problem when we release, so... Release is basically : we update > version, some file, make distcheck, we copy the tarball somewhere. > Nah, you usually test releases to make sure they actually work, instead of just firing make and uploading the package if it didn't fail. > Vincent > >> I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at >> least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems >> found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. make distcheck... And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. make distcheck || exit 1 that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that was changed with a typo. same problem when we release, so... Release is basically : we update version, some file, make distcheck, we copy the tarball somewhere. Vincent I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts.-- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:36:07 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: > >> 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : > > The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. > >>> > >>> make distcheck... > >>> > >> > >> And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS > >> for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. > > > > make distcheck || exit 1 > > > > that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. > > You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying > > message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly > > Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many > things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that > was changed with a typo. > > I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at > least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems > found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. yup. we'll make some alpha tarballs once its ready - as such we still need to fix up readme's, news files etc. anyway, and i was going to disable multisense in edje - but haven't gone there yet, so just haven't done it yet. definitely no "daily snapshots" - you can do per minute snaps if u want from svn :) tarballs will come. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:50:34 -0200 Iván Briano (Sachiel) said: > 2011/11/11 Youness Alaoui : > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani > >> wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler > >> wrote: > >> >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < > >> vto...@univ-evry.fr> > >> >> said: > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> Hey > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for > >> >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have > >> is > >> >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > >> >> > >> >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need > >> to run > >> >> autogen.sh. > >> >> > >> >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > >> >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > >> >> > >> >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. > >> > > >> > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > >> > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > >> > bluebugs and billiob). > >> > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > >> > on irc, that's amazing. > >> > >> Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it > >> demotivate you. > >> Keep the good work ! =) > >> > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. > Doing tarballs out of any random checkout is not unlike doing the > actual checkout yourself. thanks man for actually reading what i wrote. :) yup. make distcheck is per tree. so fine. have to now write script to do "for I in eina eet ; do done" - but it has to also do the3 upload, generate announce email/news file, and currently.. i don't have that script - so i have to write it, test it, etc. > Now, to be fair, what the OpenBSD guys are asking for are some rc > tarballs before the release to make sure that everything is building > fine for them on the actual release, not daily tarballs, and this whole > thing got to this point out of not stating things clearly in the first place. sure, BUT... vincent's mail says "some daily snashots" (yes - missing a p - that's fine. i got the message) and i asked how an svn checkout/update is hard? i'm definitely going to say no to daily snapshots between now and release because of the same thing you said. it's no better than a random svn checkout anyway so all it has achieved is wasting time. tarballs can be made when desired, and useful, but not just daily because it's simply an aversion to using "svn co XXX; ./autogen.sh..." vs "wget http://; ./configure..." :) > > > >> > > >> > if they require tarballs to > >> >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have > >> the > >> >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from > >> svn. > >> >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > >> part. > >> > > >> > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be > >> ok. > >> > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > >> > final archive. > >> > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me > >> that > >> >>> such snapshots will help him too. > >> >> > >> >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > >> mental > >> >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to > >> use it > >> >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > >> > > >> > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > >> > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > >> > > >> >> > >> >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > >> matter - but > >> >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > >> have. > >> >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > >> merged them > >> >> into a single efl tree. > >> >> > >> >>> Vincent > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> -- > >> >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> >>> Register now > >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> >>> ___ > >> >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> - Co
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:12 +0100 Jonathan Armani said: > Hi, > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri > > said: > > > >> > >> Hey > >> > >> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for > >> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is > >> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > > > > how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run > > autogen.sh. > > > >> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > >> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > > > > open to patches, but none have been submitted. > > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > bluebugs and billiob). > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > on irc, that's amazing. you don't have commit access. so you can't be committing. i see zero emails from you on e-devel with patches... the first i saw of any patches was when vtorri pointed me to them. no - i'm not reading every commit mail. this is the first email from you on this list... you've never poked up with a question that i have ever seen related to your patches, which definitely went off and did the wrong thing. and yes - many of the patches were bad. what made you think changing evas_object_color_get() to use unsigned char *'s instead of int *'s was good? https://github.com/jarmani/mystuff/blob/master/x11/e17/evas/patches/patch-src_lib_canvas_evas_object_main_c it looks bad. it *IS* bad. that's an instant api and abi break just on openbsd. i'm not allowed to say that that is bad? many of the patches to evas, edje, and more were to adjust for this api/abi break to a stable abi. there isn't anything there to fix in changing that. you just make sure that applications built correctly will have bugs/crashes/errors on openbsd by doing this. also patching more libs to not used chained_mempool because you disabled it in eina's build wasn't a great move. you should have kept it enabled and if you thought that it's pool allocator was just a repeat of bsd's libc one - just patched chained_mempool to straight through use bsd malloc/free. it would have been a simpler, less invasive patch. in addition you're patching configure scripts and Makefiles as opposed to their source (configure.ac, Makefile.am) which may just patch over your immediate problem, but won't work in the long run as every time you run autogen.sh you overwrite your changes. a change in autoconf or m4 macro sources can instantly nullify the patch. it also will break for releases too per new release. it's much better to identify the source in the Makefile.am or configure.ac and find out why its generating something that doesn't work for you and fix it at the source (well that or in autoconf or automake directly itself and maybe its macros and templates). i saw these and yes - i said it was bad and i wish you didn't do things like break api's on openbsd without talking to use first and at least asking why something is how it is. > if they require tarballs to > > test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the > > time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. > > it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > final archive. > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) the final archive will be what's in svn - as per make dist. make distcheck ensures that you ship what you are meant to. the rest is ensuring the source in svn has bugs fixes and documentation is up to date. there isn't an rc or alpha because there's still things to be done before that and they are being done. i was going through news files today as well as some bugfixes. > >> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that > >> such snapshots will help him too. > > > > a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental > > block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use > > it because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. and equally having to make dist tarballs every day is frustrating, eats up time and is no better quality than an svn checkout unless it sucks up even MORE time. vincent suggested daily snapshot tarballs. i say that that is the same as svn checkout so where is the value in doing the extra work? i get the message "OMG! he dissed my patches and isn't giving me what i ask for! i'm going to make an issue about it!". your patches we
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui said: > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > good to use these awesome technologies. hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on irc, nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). seriously, what's up with you? do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to see. we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi breakage added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more patches just like that!". if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and if its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that was my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at least some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg svn trunk must be so unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in trunk (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made every day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing just bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > if they require tarballs to > > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have > > the > > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from > > svn. > > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > > part. > > > > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be > > ok. > > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > > > final archive. > > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > > > > >> > > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me > > that > > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > > >> > > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > > mental > > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to > > use it > > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > > > > >> > > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > > matter - but > > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > > have. > > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > > merged them > > >> into a single efl tree. > > >> > > >>> Vincent > > >>> > > >>> > > -- > > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > >>> Register now > > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > >>> ___ > > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > >> Register now > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > >> ___ > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > Register now > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > ___ > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bruno Dilly > > Senior Developer > > ProFUSION embedded systems > > http://profusion.mobi > > > > > > -- > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > Register now > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.n
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Torri wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: >> 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. >>> >>> make distcheck... >>> >> >> And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS >> for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. > > make distcheck || exit 1 > > that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. > You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying message, > sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Let's remember that "if it build, ship it" is not a good one. Many things may fail even if they compile, like some incorrect string that was changed with a typo. I agree with Sachiel and think they want some guaranteed-to-work (at least on Linux) tarballs, that they can use and assume all problems found are OpenBSD specific and not bug on the generic parts. -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. make distcheck... And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. make distcheck || exit 1 that way, the script exits on error. So really, there is no problem at all. You can also retrieve the error code, and let the script displaying message, sending a mail, etc.. and exiting cleanly Vincent Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Vincent Torri : >> The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. > > make distcheck... > And if it doesn't build you have the script keep trying? There's the OBS for that, though I don't know if it provides the tarballs too. > Vincent > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Iván Briano (Sachiel) wrote: 2011/11/11 Youness Alaoui : On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani wrote: Hi, On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < vto...@univ-evry.fr> said: Hey I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run autogen.sh. Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. open to patches, but none have been submitted. Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, bluebugs and billiob). So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and on irc, that's amazing. Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it demotivate you. Keep the good work ! =) Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be good to use these awesome technologies. The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. make distcheck... Vincent Doing tarballs out of any random checkout is not unlike doing the actual checkout yourself. Now, to be fair, what the OpenBSD guys are asking for are some rc tarballs before the release to make sure that everything is building fine for them on the actual release, not daily tarballs, and this whole thing got to this point out of not stating things clearly in the first place. if they require tarballs to test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the final archive. (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that such snapshots will help him too. a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it because of a mental block, i don't see the point. yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - but we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them into a single efl tree. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Bruno Dilly Senior Developer ProFUSION embedded systems http://profusion.mobi -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Thanatermesis : > This has not much sense, its the same a "rc" tarball than get it from an > actual svn checkout, I say that because if there's "release candidate" > tarballs, and something (related to how it builds) needs to be changed, no > matters if previously was made a tarball or not, so it becomes to have no > value at all. > It does have value. Once everything is ready for the release, you make a pre-release tarball that they can make sure it builds fine on OpenBSD. They are working on it now, but that last check is to ensure that no change at the end that they missed or didn't get to test makes the released version to break. I'm all for doing that. > 2011/11/11 Iván Briano (Sachiel) > >> 2011/11/11 Youness Alaoui : >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly >> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler < >> ras...@rasterman.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < >> >> vto...@univ-evry.fr> >> >> >> said: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hey >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard >> for >> >> >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to >> have >> >> is >> >> >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. >> >> >> >> >> >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need >> >> to run >> >> >> autogen.sh. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily >> >> >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. >> >> >> >> >> >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. >> >> > >> >> > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot >> >> > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, >> >> > bluebugs and billiob). >> >> > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and >> >> > on irc, that's amazing. >> >> >> >> Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it >> >> demotivate you. >> >> Keep the good work ! =) >> >> >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... >> > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why >> there's >> > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be >> > good to use these awesome technologies. >> > >> >> The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. >> Doing tarballs out of any random checkout is not unlike doing the >> actual checkout yourself. >> >> Now, to be fair, what the OpenBSD guys are asking for are some rc >> tarballs before the release to make sure that everything is building >> fine for them on the actual release, not daily tarballs, and this whole >> thing got to this point out of not stating things clearly in the first >> place. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > if they require tarballs to >> >> >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't >> have >> >> the >> >> >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch >> from >> >> svn. >> >> >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our >> >> part. >> >> > >> >> > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will >> be >> >> ok. >> >> > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the >> >> > final archive. >> >> > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told >> me >> >> that >> >> >>> such snapshots will help him too. >> >> >> >> >> >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a >> >> mental >> >> >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness >> to >> >> use it >> >> >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. >> >> > >> >> > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I >> >> > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different >> >> matter - but >> >> >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we >> >> have. >> >> >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just >> >> merged them >> >> >> into a single efl tree. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Vincent >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> >> >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> >> >>> Register now >> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> >> >>> ___ >> >> >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> >> >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I co
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
This has not much sense, its the same a "rc" tarball than get it from an actual svn checkout, I say that because if there's "release candidate" tarballs, and something (related to how it builds) needs to be changed, no matters if previously was made a tarball or not, so it becomes to have no value at all. 2011/11/11 Iván Briano (Sachiel) > 2011/11/11 Youness Alaoui : > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly > wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani > >> wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler < > ras...@rasterman.com> > >> wrote: > >> >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < > >> vto...@univ-evry.fr> > >> >> said: > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> Hey > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard > for > >> >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to > have > >> is > >> >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > >> >> > >> >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need > >> to run > >> >> autogen.sh. > >> >> > >> >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > >> >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > >> >> > >> >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. > >> > > >> > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > >> > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > >> > bluebugs and billiob). > >> > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > >> > on irc, that's amazing. > >> > >> Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it > >> demotivate you. > >> Keep the good work ! =) > >> > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > there's > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. > Doing tarballs out of any random checkout is not unlike doing the > actual checkout yourself. > > Now, to be fair, what the OpenBSD guys are asking for are some rc > tarballs before the release to make sure that everything is building > fine for them on the actual release, not daily tarballs, and this whole > thing got to this point out of not stating things clearly in the first > place. > > > > >> > > >> > if they require tarballs to > >> >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't > have > >> the > >> >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch > from > >> svn. > >> >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > >> part. > >> > > >> > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will > be > >> ok. > >> > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > >> > final archive. > >> > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told > me > >> that > >> >>> such snapshots will help him too. > >> >> > >> >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > >> mental > >> >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness > to > >> use it > >> >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > >> > > >> > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > >> > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > >> > > >> >> > >> >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > >> matter - but > >> >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > >> have. > >> >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > >> merged them > >> >> into a single efl tree. > >> >> > >> >>> Vincent > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > -- > >> >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> >>> Register now > >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> >>> ___ > >> >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -- > >> >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -- > >> >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> >> Register now > >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> >> ___ > >> >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> >> https://l
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Youness Alaoui : > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly wrote: > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler >> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < >> vto...@univ-evry.fr> >> >> said: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Hey >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for >> >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have >> is >> >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. >> >> >> >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need >> to run >> >> autogen.sh. >> >> >> >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily >> >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. >> >> >> >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. >> > >> > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot >> > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, >> > bluebugs and billiob). >> > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and >> > on irc, that's amazing. >> >> Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it >> demotivate you. >> Keep the good work ! =) >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > good to use these awesome technologies. > The problem with that is guaranteeing that the entire thing builds. Doing tarballs out of any random checkout is not unlike doing the actual checkout yourself. Now, to be fair, what the OpenBSD guys are asking for are some rc tarballs before the release to make sure that everything is building fine for them on the actual release, not daily tarballs, and this whole thing got to this point out of not stating things clearly in the first place. > >> > >> > if they require tarballs to >> >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have >> the >> >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from >> svn. >> >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our >> part. >> > >> > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be >> ok. >> > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the >> > final archive. >> > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) >> > >> > >> >> >> >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me >> that >> >>> such snapshots will help him too. >> >> >> >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a >> mental >> >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to >> use it >> >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. >> > >> > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I >> > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. >> > >> >> >> >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different >> matter - but >> >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we >> have. >> >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just >> merged them >> >> into a single efl tree. >> >> >> >>> Vincent >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> >>> Register now >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> >>> ___ >> >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- >> >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> >> Register now >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> >> ___ >> >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> >> >> > >> > >> -- >> > RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> > Save $700 by Nov 18 >> > Register now >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> > ___ >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list >> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Bruno Dilly >> Senior Developer >> ProFUSION embedded systems >> http://profusion.mobi >> >> >> -
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruno Dilly wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < > vto...@univ-evry.fr> > >> said: > >> > >>> > >>> Hey > >>> > >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for > >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have > is > >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > >> > >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need > to run > >> autogen.sh. > >> > >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > >> > >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. > > > > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > > bluebugs and billiob). > > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > > on irc, that's amazing. > > Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it > demotivate you. > Keep the good work ! =) > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why there's something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > if they require tarballs to > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have > the > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from > svn. > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > part. > > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be > ok. > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > > final archive. > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > >> > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me > that > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > >> > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > mental > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to > use it > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > > >> > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > matter - but > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > have. > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > merged them > >> into a single efl tree. > >> > >>> Vincent > >>> > >>> > -- > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >>> Register now > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >>> ___ > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> Register now > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> ___ > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> > > > > > -- > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > Register now > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > -- > Bruno Dilly > Senior Developer > ProFUSION embedded systems > http://profusion.mobi > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
2011/11/11 Bruno Dilly > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < > vto...@univ-evry.fr> > >> said: > >> > >>> > >>> Hey > >>> > >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for > >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have > is > >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > >> > >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need > to run > >> autogen.sh. > >> > >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > >> > >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. > > > > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > > bluebugs and billiob). > > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > > on irc, that's amazing. > > Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it > demotivate you. > Keep the good work ! =) > > Procedure: http://www.spankingpaddles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/paddle-spank.gif > > > > if they require tarballs to > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have > the > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from > svn. > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our > part. > > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be > ok. > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > > final archive. > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > >> > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me > that > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > >> > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > mental > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to > use it > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > > >> > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > matter - but > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we > have. > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > merged them > >> into a single efl tree. > >> > >>> Vincent > >>> > >>> > -- > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >>> Register now > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >>> ___ > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > >> Register now > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > >> ___ > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> > > > > > -- > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > Register now > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > -- > Bruno Dilly > Senior Developer > ProFUSION embedded systems > http://profusion.mobi > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Armani wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri >> said: >> >>> >>> Hey >>> >>> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for >>> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is >>> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. >> >> how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run >> autogen.sh. >> >>> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily >>> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. >> >> open to patches, but none have been submitted. > > Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot > of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, > bluebugs and billiob). > So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and > on irc, that's amazing. Sometimes he acts this way. Don't take it personal, don't let it demotivate you. Keep the good work ! =) > > if they require tarballs to >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > final archive. > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > >> >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that >>> such snapshots will help him too. >> >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use >> it >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > >> >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - >> but >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged >> them >> into a single efl tree. >> >>> Vincent >>> >>> -- >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 >>> Register now >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >>> ___ >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>> >> >> >> -- >> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com >> >> >> -- >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> Register now >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> ___ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- Bruno Dilly Senior Developer ProFUSION embedded systems http://profusion.mobi -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Hi, On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri > said: > >> >> Hey >> >> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for >> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is >> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > > how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run > autogen.sh. > >> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily >> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > > open to patches, but none have been submitted. Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, bluebugs and billiob). So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and on irc, that's amazing. if they require tarballs to > test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the > time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. > it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the final archive. (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > >> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that >> such snapshots will help him too. > > a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental > block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it > because of a mental block, i don't see the point. yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - > but > we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. > only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them > into a single efl tree. > >> Vincent >> >> -- >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> Register now >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> ___ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > > > -- > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri > said: > >> >> Hey >> >> I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for >> them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is >> snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. > > how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run > autogen.sh. i don't really know. They just say "it's very hard for us". >> Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily >> snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. > > open to patches, but none have been submitted. As I said, I'm discussing with an openBSD guy which send me a github link with all their patches (in #e.fr). > if they require tarballs to > test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the > time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. > it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. > >> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that >> such snapshots will help him too. > > a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental > block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it > because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - > but > we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. > only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them > into a single efl tree. but in the case of a freeze, that would also allow "common" user to test the code, I think, without having svn installed on their computer. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri said: > > Hey > > I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for > them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is > snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run autogen.sh. > Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily > snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. open to patches, but none have been submitted. if they require tarballs to test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. > Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that > such snapshots will help him too. a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it because of a mental block, i don't see the point. a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - but we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them into a single efl tree. > Vincent > > -- > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Hey I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that such snapshots will help him too. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
