Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:28 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:13:32 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: I really don't know why I bother to explain these things I know will get nowhere. i've already said we can support it. i just disagree that that is a first port of call or the only port of call. i disagree that we totally reply on PA for everything we need audio-wise. As I said, maybe not clear enough: we can't rely on PA is the worse part. We use that to motivate us to create something new out of nowhere instead of helping other freesoftware projects. The excuse is often no time and higher priority things. I know the history, if it was not this behavior then E would never exist, etc. But this is a bad practice: - what first looks like simple (20% of the work that maps to 80% of requirements), will end consuming our already scarce time (the 80% of the time that maps to 20% of requirements). This results in more work to do in the long run for a minimal initial save. If you stop to think, Embryo is an example of this, now we figured out it was better to use Lua. :-S actually i've spent more time on lua than embryo. much more. embryo still is massively smaller and leaner too. lua also still can't abort execution with infinite loops. embryo can. and let me be clear... EMBRYO WAS BASED ON ANOTHER OPEN SOURCE PROJECT... EXACTLY YOUR ARGUMENT. i didn't write it. the compiler is sill 99% the same as where it came from. i did almost rewrite the entire runtime vm though. and it got a lot smaller in the process. my REQUIREMENTS were i need something that does: if (x) then do y else do z. that was it. embryo met and exceeded that by a vast vast vast margin. at the time it was a choice of write my own mini logic engine inside edje or re-use another one. i re-used an open source project. i chose the one that had the lowest footprint and least intrusiveness as i wasn't in the mood for having a big fat execution environment. if you took Lua at the time, as you wished, maybe they would already have added the preemptive requirement you need, no? Same for JS engines, AFAIR these things were implemented in JS because browsers wanted to avoid bad scripts broking them. You could have saved everyone's time :-) - this mindset plays against out own project. If we stimulate people to play Not-Invented-Here syndrome, we suffer as one day we'll be the other peer. We need more people to collaborate on our code base, right? But we keep telling people it's better to start something from scratch instead of helping others! Then we have examples like turran's enesim/eon, instead of incrementally helping Evas he decided to go a different new route and we've lost a developer. :-S that has nothing to do with this topic at all. it does, but let's ignore it - relations with other projects. If you go to conferences, many developers hates us for multitude of ways (when they care to know what is E/EFL). One of the reasons is that we play the bitch and do not report or send patches, instead recreating stuff. This keeps away possible contributors as well they're not helping me, I'm not helping them. Maybe it was the case with Xrender, I don't know. Maybe it was with glib? But I'm seeing it now with PulseAudio/Canberra and I'm saying it loud :-) and for audio we're using another open source projct that actually DOES have the features we want. in fact using 4 of them. libogg, libflac, libsndfile and libremix... if you didn't notice. maybe you're just upset we're not using your project of choice. It's not a choice or not, it's more like the correct layer or not. Just come to mind all the problems you'll have to deal like enumerating the sound cards, being able to select where to play, how to handle bluetooth speakers, allowing user to selectively disable sound classes, etc. as for xrender... that'd involve a massive detour into the internals of x - at the time pixman wasn't even a library. making any changes would involve recompiling and restarting xservers. no better way for e to have been delayed by years. not to mention having to work on multiple drivers too. ok, fair. Particularly about the last point: I know we don't live in the wonderland. Some project maintainers are very hard to work with and changes are just rejected for no reason (hu... reminds me of our last behaviors?) and in this cases it may be worth to fork, do and prove it's right, having the possibility to merge back someday, or at least get more developers on bandwagon. and if we fork pulse and then require the new features we have - we have a competing pulse that people have to replace
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:13:32 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: I really don't know why I bother to explain these things I know will get nowhere. i've already said we can support it. i just disagree that that is a first port of call or the only port of call. i disagree that we totally reply on PA for everything we need audio-wise. Saying that what you want could be easily worked with them is also out of question, there is always the no time and bigger fish to fry, I know the drill... i've been burned before. i waited so long for xrender to go nowhere. luckily i didn't make it a core required rendering back-end. not going to depend on something like that again. if PA doesn't have the feature today - i think it's unwise to depend on it maybe having it some time in the future. that we don't provide sound feedback and he is waiting it since forever. oh that's all - yes. because no one has stepped up and done it. someone did. i said i wasn't going to do it before e17 release because i didn't want to be distracted by it. :) that is true, but we have a much bigger problem already with that and images. having a problem does not justify to introduce another ;-) Before you had 1 problem, now you'll have two. unless PA is going to get sequenced multi-track audio... we can't do everything via PA. we have a requirement for a more general solution. well.. i have a requirement. we can use PA when and where appropriate. we can use canberra when and where appropriate. i'm not going to limit designs to just what these happen to do. well not limit, because i care a lot about audio. for instance PA allows for sound what you'd like to have with images (central daemon to load stuff), but we're not using it as there is no time. Then we create something else that then we need to create something else again to match. That rule of we can always solve a problem by creating another abstraction layer. PA would not work everywhere, so create a layer to abstract it away, but that would be the role of PA :-S but it doesn't do what i want from an audio subsystem - not everything. so either i decide to limit what edje does to just what canberra does... or PA does, or i can do more if i just deal with the audio mixing locally in edje and just punt out audio stream data. this is moot if we support both paths - powerful/complex path and simple one, so where is the argument? i want to do the powerful one first as the simple one is a subset case. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:13:32 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: I really don't know why I bother to explain these things I know will get nowhere. i've already said we can support it. i just disagree that that is a first port of call or the only port of call. i disagree that we totally reply on PA for everything we need audio-wise. As I said, maybe not clear enough: we can't rely on PA is the worse part. We use that to motivate us to create something new out of nowhere instead of helping other freesoftware projects. The excuse is often no time and higher priority things. I know the history, if it was not this behavior then E would never exist, etc. But this is a bad practice: - what first looks like simple (20% of the work that maps to 80% of requirements), will end consuming our already scarce time (the 80% of the time that maps to 20% of requirements). This results in more work to do in the long run for a minimal initial save. If you stop to think, Embryo is an example of this, now we figured out it was better to use Lua. :-S - this mindset plays against out own project. If we stimulate people to play Not-Invented-Here syndrome, we suffer as one day we'll be the other peer. We need more people to collaborate on our code base, right? But we keep telling people it's better to start something from scratch instead of helping others! Then we have examples like turran's enesim/eon, instead of incrementally helping Evas he decided to go a different new route and we've lost a developer. :-S - relations with other projects. If you go to conferences, many developers hates us for multitude of ways (when they care to know what is E/EFL). One of the reasons is that we play the bitch and do not report or send patches, instead recreating stuff. This keeps away possible contributors as well they're not helping me, I'm not helping them. Maybe it was the case with Xrender, I don't know. Maybe it was with glib? But I'm seeing it now with PulseAudio/Canberra and I'm saying it loud :-) Particularly about the last point: I know we don't live in the wonderland. Some project maintainers are very hard to work with and changes are just rejected for no reason (hu... reminds me of our last behaviors?) and in this cases it may be worth to fork, do and prove it's right, having the possibility to merge back someday, or at least get more developers on bandwagon. Technically (I'm ignoring bureaucratic and personal reasons) maybe if it was done this way, we'd be using glib and had avoided all the work on ecore/eina, with a faster glib that could be speeding up gnome apps as well? But as the world is not 100% technical, we have to deal with persons and the line is blurry. But if we always use the excuse I'be been burned before and applying the same old rules to different people, we'll suffer. At least for Lennart, he is bit like you raster. He is hard to get along, but he does listen and will accept help. :-) Saying that what you want could be easily worked with them is also out of question, there is always the no time and bigger fish to fry, I know the drill... i've been burned before. i waited so long for xrender to go nowhere. luckily i didn't make it a core required rendering back-end. not going to depend on something like that again. if PA doesn't have the feature today - i think it's unwise to depend on it maybe having it some time in the future. PA does what a generic sound system is supposed to do. The track programming and sequencing should be done on your side, otherwise you'll be increasing complexity. But loading the samples there and requesting properties should be fine. If not, then why not help there? It is not more work, it is less. It's like sound loading. We could submit loading samples from eet. It would be nice, more projects supporting and indirectly marketing Eet! Maybe being aware of it people will use it more? that we don't provide sound feedback and he is waiting it since forever. oh that's all - yes. because no one has stepped up and done it. someone did. i said i wasn't going to do it before e17 release because i didn't want to be distracted by it. :) I did and was immediately rejected because it was not a dream-way. Maybe it is the reason it was never done before? that is true, but we have a much bigger problem already with that and images. having a problem does not justify to introduce another ;-) Before you had 1 problem, now you'll have two. unless PA is going to get sequenced multi-track audio... we can't do everything via PA. we have a requirement for a more general solution. well.. i have a requirement. we can use PA when and where appropriate. we can use canberra when and where appropriate. i'm not going to limit designs to just what these happen to do. well not limit, because i care a lot about audio. Not asking you to limit.
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:28 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi wrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:13:32 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: I really don't know why I bother to explain these things I know will get nowhere. i've already said we can support it. i just disagree that that is a first port of call or the only port of call. i disagree that we totally reply on PA for everything we need audio-wise. As I said, maybe not clear enough: we can't rely on PA is the worse part. We use that to motivate us to create something new out of nowhere instead of helping other freesoftware projects. The excuse is often no time and higher priority things. Actually, as much as I like Pulse Audio, and as much as I think a lot of the people that are against it just base their hatred on the early buggy versions that some distros moved to, Pulse Audio is not the be all and end all. I wont use it on my EFL embedded project for instance, but love it on my desktop. The fact that there are plenty of vocal Pulse Audio haters in the world means that we should produce something that can ALSO run on ALSA and OSS. - what first looks like simple (20% of the work that maps to 80% of requirements), will end consuming our already scarce time (the 80% of the time that maps to 20% of requirements). This results in more work to do in the long run for a minimal initial save. If you stop to think, Embryo is an example of this, now we figured out it was better to use Lua. :-S Um no. Lua is an alternative, not a replacement for embryo. In fact raster wants lua to specifically NOT be a clone of embryo. Caused me to waste some time trying to reimplement embryo in lua before he told me that. lol The project I'm using to reality check lua uses a combination of lua and embryo. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:28 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:13:32 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: I really don't know why I bother to explain these things I know will get nowhere. i've already said we can support it. i just disagree that that is a first port of call or the only port of call. i disagree that we totally reply on PA for everything we need audio-wise. As I said, maybe not clear enough: we can't rely on PA is the worse part. We use that to motivate us to create something new out of nowhere instead of helping other freesoftware projects. The excuse is often no time and higher priority things. I know the history, if it was not this behavior then E would never exist, etc. But this is a bad practice: - what first looks like simple (20% of the work that maps to 80% of requirements), will end consuming our already scarce time (the 80% of the time that maps to 20% of requirements). This results in more work to do in the long run for a minimal initial save. If you stop to think, Embryo is an example of this, now we figured out it was better to use Lua. :-S actually i've spent more time on lua than embryo. much more. embryo still is massively smaller and leaner too. lua also still can't abort execution with infinite loops. embryo can. and let me be clear... EMBRYO WAS BASED ON ANOTHER OPEN SOURCE PROJECT... EXACTLY YOUR ARGUMENT. i didn't write it. the compiler is sill 99% the same as where it came from. i did almost rewrite the entire runtime vm though. and it got a lot smaller in the process. my REQUIREMENTS were i need something that does: if (x) then do y else do z. that was it. embryo met and exceeded that by a vast vast vast margin. at the time it was a choice of write my own mini logic engine inside edje or re-use another one. i re-used an open source project. i chose the one that had the lowest footprint and least intrusiveness as i wasn't in the mood for having a big fat execution environment. - this mindset plays against out own project. If we stimulate people to play Not-Invented-Here syndrome, we suffer as one day we'll be the other peer. We need more people to collaborate on our code base, right? But we keep telling people it's better to start something from scratch instead of helping others! Then we have examples like turran's enesim/eon, instead of incrementally helping Evas he decided to go a different new route and we've lost a developer. :-S that has nothing to do with this topic at all. - relations with other projects. If you go to conferences, many developers hates us for multitude of ways (when they care to know what is E/EFL). One of the reasons is that we play the bitch and do not report or send patches, instead recreating stuff. This keeps away possible contributors as well they're not helping me, I'm not helping them. Maybe it was the case with Xrender, I don't know. Maybe it was with glib? But I'm seeing it now with PulseAudio/Canberra and I'm saying it loud :-) and for audio we're using another open source projct that actually DOES have the features we want. in fact using 4 of them. libogg, libflac, libsndfile and libremix... if you didn't notice. maybe you're just upset we're not using your project of choice. as for xrender... that'd involve a massive detour into the internals of x - at the time pixman wasn't even a library. making any changes would involve recompiling and restarting xservers. no better way for e to have been delayed by years. not to mention having to work on multiple drivers too. Particularly about the last point: I know we don't live in the wonderland. Some project maintainers are very hard to work with and changes are just rejected for no reason (hu... reminds me of our last behaviors?) and in this cases it may be worth to fork, do and prove it's right, having the possibility to merge back someday, or at least get more developers on bandwagon. and if we fork pulse and then require the new features we have - we have a competing pulse that people have to replace their existing installation of, which invariably no one will do, so we're stuck with the lowest common denominator. i'm sitting and staring at a library that already meets our needs. you just don't like that. Technically (I'm ignoring bureaucratic and personal reasons) maybe if it was done this way, we'd be using glib and had avoided all the work on ecore/eina, with a faster glib that could be speeding up gnome apps as well? after having fought day in and out within the gnome dev world i wasn't going to touch it. i spent a year of my life being told i was wrong only in the end to be told shit. you're right. help!. too late. i wasn't going to use glib at all because i already saw things i didn't like - i didn't like the timers using sec+msec vals - a
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:26:51 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:08:55 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. yup. :) can be done as an addition later as its a simplifies subset of whats there in the proposal. Sure, but to clarify what I mean: I think that SOUNDS IN E should not be in Edje, rather going with libcanberra for consistency with the whole world. completely disagree here. by thius logic we should drop evas and edje and just use gtk.. or qt to be consistent with everyone elses gtk or qt themes. so are you making the argument to kill edje and evas and elementary and use qt and gtk? because that's the same logic behind your don't do something better or more powerful, just do the lowest-common-denominator so you blend into other desktops. 1. not all actions are visual to have an associated edje and thus sound. 2. xdg sound themes are supported elsewhere, like gnome/kde = consistency 3. one can turn off the sound in a central place. this is much like before we just had e17 icons, then we started to support FreeDesktop.Org icons... bit painful, so the sound we can start easily. that is a different case. each and every application provides data you display. sound and visual themes are not provided by each application so there is no overwhelming requirement to fall in line - as people have to do themes for e/elm anyway... they can do sound themes too. and they can package it all into the same theme they already do. a single download an they're done. Actually if there is interest I can provide the functions below, and people can plug them into E17 and write a configuration: unsigned int e_sound_feedback(const char *event_name, const Evas_Object *reference, Eina_Bool loop); unsigned int e_sound_feedback_win(const char *event_name, Ecore_X_Window reference, Eina_Bool loop); void e_sound_feedback_stop(unsigned int id); object is used to provide spatial sound whenever supported and also finds out the owner window class/name to be fed to libcanberra. can you explain more? One could go in E codebase and call: //on startup e_sound_feedback(service-login, NULL, EINA_FALSE); //on logout e_sound_feedback(service-logout, NULL, EINA_FALSE); // on error dialogs e_sound_feedback(dialog-error, dia_base, EINA_FALSE); e_sound_feedback(dialog-warning, dia_base, EINA_FALSE); e_sound_feedback(dialog-information, dia_base, EINA_FALSE); // on urgent windows e_sound_feedback_win(window-attention, xid, EINA_FALSE); // on screenshot module e_sound_feedback(screen-capture, NULL, EINA_FALSE); very simple and will match whatever sound the user choose in their apps. Of course, similar to icon themes we'd have to provide our own theme selector configuration tool. this doesn't do what i want to - which is the ability to have sound work with input to provide not just your 1-off sample beeps as this is, but literally tie it into actions like dragging a slider and where the position is, or scrolling or any number of things. i do agree we need sound outside of edje - as an actual library and api, but that doesn't preclude edje having such features anyway and later using that sound api itself. -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:26:51 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:08:55 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. yup. :) can be done as an addition later as its a simplifies subset of whats there in the proposal. Sure, but to clarify what I mean: I think that SOUNDS IN E should not be in Edje, rather going with libcanberra for consistency with the whole world. completely disagree here. by thius logic we should drop evas and edje and just use gtk.. or qt to be consistent with everyone elses gtk or qt themes. so are you making the argument to kill edje and evas and elementary and use qt and gtk? because that's the same logic behind your don't do something better or more powerful, just do the lowest-common-denominator so you blend into other desktops. nah... there we go, again. Same history as icons, we make them edje only, then it suck and we must hack some compat on top. I'm not saying I'm against having sounds in edje, just making them the rule and having to hack things on top of it later. If someone have free time to work on a new sound set, then to change a theme to make crazy use of it... go ahead. But right now we lack enough resources to create a simple theme to replace bw :-D also, bear in mind some actions are not visible... at least not as in Edje. If you change the volume, you may have sound feedback without visuals (okay, you can force people to have visual popup to make that trigger sound, but there we go...) As for the argument of being inconsistent it's sad but it's true, unfortunately most of the bad comments about E/EFL is that it fails to match into other desktops. From that default e17 mouse cursor (that I really don't see a reason to exist) that keeps changing from one application to another, to icons and toolkit theme. Yes, I know every other environment would have the problem if they had no apps... but they do have the apps and most users of KDE never run GNOME apps to notice, vice versa. But we're always running KDE or GNOME apps as we have no applications :-( Few E17 developers notice how bad it is, maybe because getting used to, maybe because all we use is xterm + firefox :-D Then, if the widget theme (edj) is a major difference we want to keep, why not cooperate on other stuff such as sound and cursor theme could cooperate with other toolkits for a less alien environment? 1. not all actions are visual to have an associated edje and thus sound. 2. xdg sound themes are supported elsewhere, like gnome/kde = consistency 3. one can turn off the sound in a central place. this is much like before we just had e17 icons, then we started to support FreeDesktop.Org icons... bit painful, so the sound we can start easily. that is a different case. each and every application provides data you display. sound and visual themes are not provided by each application so there is no overwhelming requirement to fall in line - as people have to do themes for e/elm anyway... they can do sound themes too. and they can package it all into the same theme they already do. a single download an they're done. I'm not against having this. I'm against forcing this. Actually if there is interest I can provide the functions below, and people can plug them into E17 and write a configuration: unsigned int e_sound_feedback(const char *event_name, const Evas_Object *reference, Eina_Bool loop); unsigned int e_sound_feedback_win(const char *event_name, Ecore_X_Window reference, Eina_Bool loop); void e_sound_feedback_stop(unsigned int id); object is used to provide spatial sound whenever supported and
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:52:49 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:26:51 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:08:55 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. yup. :) can be done as an addition later as its a simplifies subset of whats there in the proposal. Sure, but to clarify what I mean: I think that SOUNDS IN E should not be in Edje, rather going with libcanberra for consistency with the whole world. completely disagree here. by thius logic we should drop evas and edje and just use gtk.. or qt to be consistent with everyone elses gtk or qt themes. so are you making the argument to kill edje and evas and elementary and use qt and gtk? because that's the same logic behind your don't do something better or more powerful, just do the lowest-common-denominator so you blend into other desktops. nah... there we go, again. Same history as icons, we make them edje only, then it suck and we must hack some compat on top. I'm not saying I'm against having sounds in edje, just making them the rule and having to hack things on top of it later. If someone have free time to work on a new sound set, then to change a theme to make crazy use of it... go ahead. But right now we lack enough resources to create a simple theme to replace bw :-D also, bear in mind some actions are not visible... at least not as in Edje. If you change the volume, you may have sound feedback without visuals (okay, you can force people to have visual popup to make that trigger sound, but there we go...) As for the argument of being inconsistent it's sad but it's true, unfortunately most of the bad comments about E/EFL is that it fails to match into other desktops. From that default e17 mouse cursor (that I really don't see a reason to exist) that keeps changing from one application to another, to icons and toolkit theme. Yes, I know every other environment would have the problem if they had no apps... but they do have the apps and most users of KDE never run GNOME apps to notice, vice versa. But we're always running KDE or GNOME apps as we have no applications :-( Few E17 developers notice how bad it is, maybe because getting used to, maybe because all we use is xterm + firefox :-D Then, if the widget theme (edj) is a major difference we want to keep, why not cooperate on other stuff such as sound and cursor theme could cooperate with other toolkits for a less alien environment? well your argument here is that we keep the annoying difference visually because we want to keep it but not sound? as such i actually care about sound - a lot. i want it to be powerful and flexible. i care about it like i care about the graphics too. if there is a reason to keep the graphics using our own infra then there is a reason to keep the sound too - maybe not for you, but for me it is. if the argument is just users don't like e because it is different and doesn't match their gtk/qt/whatever apps then that is the point at which this project gives up and shuts up shop. the whole point IS to do something differently AND better. this project isn't about lets just do exactly what everyone else does and make it use less memory. it's fundamentally against what this project stands for to do what you suggest. if i didn't care about sound = i'd probably agree with you, but i do care and i want to do something better, and not just fall into line. e has never been about falling into line. not from the very first day. 1. not all actions are visual to have an
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:52:49 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:26:51 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:08:55 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. yup. :) can be done as an addition later as its a simplifies subset of whats there in the proposal. Sure, but to clarify what I mean: I think that SOUNDS IN E should not be in Edje, rather going with libcanberra for consistency with the whole world. completely disagree here. by thius logic we should drop evas and edje and just use gtk.. or qt to be consistent with everyone elses gtk or qt themes. so are you making the argument to kill edje and evas and elementary and use qt and gtk? because that's the same logic behind your don't do something better or more powerful, just do the lowest-common-denominator so you blend into other desktops. nah... there we go, again. Same history as icons, we make them edje only, then it suck and we must hack some compat on top. I'm not saying I'm against having sounds in edje, just making them the rule and having to hack things on top of it later. If someone have free time to work on a new sound set, then to change a theme to make crazy use of it... go ahead. But right now we lack enough resources to create a simple theme to replace bw :-D also, bear in mind some actions are not visible... at least not as in Edje. If you change the volume, you may have sound feedback without visuals (okay, you can force people to have visual popup to make that trigger sound, but there we go...) As for the argument of being inconsistent it's sad but it's true, unfortunately most of the bad comments about E/EFL is that it fails to match into other desktops. From that default e17 mouse cursor (that I really don't see a reason to exist) that keeps changing from one application to another, to icons and toolkit theme. Yes, I know every other environment would have the problem if they had no apps... but they do have the apps and most users of KDE never run GNOME apps to notice, vice versa. But we're always running KDE or GNOME apps as we have no applications :-( Few E17 developers notice how bad it is, maybe because getting used to, maybe because all we use is xterm + firefox :-D Then, if the widget theme (edj) is a major difference we want to keep, why not cooperate on other stuff such as sound and cursor theme could cooperate with other toolkits for a less alien environment? well your argument here is that we keep the annoying difference visually because we want to keep it but not sound? as such i actually care about sound - a lot. i want it to be powerful and flexible. i care about it like i care about the graphics too. if there is a reason to keep the graphics using our own infra then there is a reason to keep the sound too - maybe not for you, but for me it is. if the argument is just users don't like e because it is different and doesn't match their gtk/qt/whatever apps then that is the point at which this project gives up and shuts up shop. the whole point IS to do something differently AND better. this project isn't about lets just do exactly what everyone else does and make it use less memory. it's fundamentally against what this project stands for to do what you suggest. if i didn't care about sound = i'd probably agree with you, but i do care and i want to do something better, and not just fall into line. e has never
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:33:58 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:50:45 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com
said:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri
vto...@univ-evry.fr said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play
audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across
multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and
tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other
additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The
patch was not public and we could not have discussed about it
before the commit. So I really don't like the way it came into
edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes
on in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing
patches on the mailing list first. so have most developers. as
such this patch this time was going through me. the comments on
the patch so far havent actually commented on the edc api it adds
at all which everyone is up in arms about for release. so since
everyone complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll
write it here in short form. it adds: sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra
like being able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode
them, play and mix them, resample them, etc. all of which is
opaque to the api.
/me picks a spot in this thread to actually discuss the API. Here
seems the best.
hooray! :)
I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in
IRC.
Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff
for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje
scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system
font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the
sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra.
We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns
and I added the we can do both part.
--
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:08:55 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:59:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:31:01 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: I have this marked to reply to properly later, but something came up in IRC. Perhaps libcanberra could be optionally added to this edje sound stuff for XDG system sounds support. It could be like edje fonts - the edje scripter can choose to use a font built in to the edje, or a system font. So they could choose to use a sound built into the edje, via the sound stuff that's there already, or a system sound via libcanberra. We can blame k-s for the basic idea of using libcanberra, devilhorns and I added the we can do both part. what i saw of libcanberra when i looked maybe a year or so ago was it was a simple sound event player - play sample X by token name on event Y. this can be supported, but it's definitely limited. something to add along the way - maybe after the initial stuff is solid. That's what I was saying in IRC, that libcanberra was way more limited than your new sound code. yup. :) can be done as an addition later as its a simplifies subset of whats there in the proposal. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
Carsten, a few people have noted their disappointment (and anger) at this
being merged and some requested it to be reverted, you didn't even take the
time to answer them and address their concerns.. Could you please take the
time to do that, since you obviously had time to respond to David with such
a long email, it looks bad for you to respond to only what you want and
ignore everyone else.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:33 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.comwrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:50:45 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri
vto...@univ-evry.fr said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio,
not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple
tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't
specify looping params yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch
was not public and we could not have discussed about it before the
commit. So I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on
in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on
the mailing list first. so have most developers. as such this patch
this time was going through me. the comments on the patch so far
havent actually commented on the edc api it adds at all which
everyone is up in arms about for release. so since everyone
complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds: sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra
like being able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode
them, play and mix them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque
to the api.
/me picks a spot in this thread to actually discuss the API. Here
seems the best.
hooray! :)
A quick look over it, and the example, and the plan, and it seems
mostly sane. One thing that stands out straight away in the examples is
the way that a bit of music was defined.
First thing is that you are using something that looks like a typical
tracker, which is fine in itself. Lots of people are familiar with
that. It's a bit verbose though.
well my hope actually was that later we can provide a mod/xm/s3m converter
that
can load one of these files and produce a bunch of edc to include. the only
reason i didn't go right to use libmikmod and just inline mods in your
edj was
that these mod formats don't support ogg/mp3 etc. style sample compression
and i
really want that for space efficiency reasons. i actually wasn't expecting
peolpe to write music in edc. it's POSSIBLE and to be honest - when i did
tracking you literallly did almost what the edc says in text. u arrow down
7,
hit a key to play the sample at that speed (c-3/b-3/f#-2 etc.). you'd
literally just have the sound played at that time as the added bonus.. :)
I think it would be great to also provide an alternative that is more
like MIDI, as that is also used by a lot of people. Have both, that
would cover most things. Actually, the plan includes using a program
per note, which is a bit more MIDI like, but even more verbose than the
pattern style.
a program per note would be bad. programs dont guarantee any timings of any
sort. if u want N channels synced you're in trouble. :( but if u want to
use
embryo.lua then u can write CODE to play but u'll be writing code to have a
timer and call play funcs... maybe from a passed in table/array.. but it'll
boil down to the same thing.
can you expand on the midi thing with some details? last i knew of midi it
was
roughly the same as a single track of a tracker with no defined length -
just
commands to play instr id X at note Y like thngs - much like a tracker.
Can we cut the verbosity levels? Though I guess edje has a similar
problem, and the solution is to go to embryo, or lua (which so far
seems to end up being about half as verbose as embryo, though YMMV).
i'd say the verbosity is on par with a tracker... is that bad?
Second is what you are doing to provide a scale. I see you are
basically dividing an octave into 7 equal parts, then doing maths to
arrive at the numbers to feed into the system. Now I'll admit that
oh.. thats just making use of edje_cc's math handler. speed is 1.0 for
play
note at given samplerate ie - if sample is 44.1khz - then play at
44.1khz. 2.0
== play at 88.2khz. 0.5
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:50:08 -0500 Youness Alaoui kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net wrote: Carsten, a few people have noted their disappointment (and anger) at this being merged and some requested it to be reverted, you didn't even take the time to answer them and address their concerns.. Could you please take the time to do that, since you obviously had time to respond to David with such a long email, it looks bad for you to respond to only what you want and ignore everyone else. Actually, raster has replied a couple of times to those concerns in this thread. For the record, I'm not really interested in whether or not it goes in for this release or not. It does not do anything for me within the time frame of this release that I had not already done for the relevant projects. For future projects I'm planning, sure it will be great. So my efforts are on the let's actually talk about the API, and not saying anything about it's release timing. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:50:08 -0500
Youness Alaoui kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net wrote:
Carsten, a few people have noted their disappointment (and anger) at this
being merged and some requested it to be reverted, you didn't even take the
time to answer them and address their concerns.. Could you please take the
time to do that, since you obviously had time to respond to David with such
a long email, it looks bad for you to respond to only what you want and
ignore everyone else.
He's a busy guy, and this is a serious issue that he can't just reply off the
top of his head like he's been doing with his other mails. Relax.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:33 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.comwrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:50:45 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri
vto...@univ-evry.fr said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio,
not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple
tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't
specify looping params yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch
was not public and we could not have discussed about it before the
commit. So I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on
in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on
the mailing list first. so have most developers. as such this patch
this time was going through me. the comments on the patch so far
havent actually commented on the edc api it adds at all which
everyone is up in arms about for release. so since everyone
complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds: sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra
like being able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode
them, play and mix them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque
to the api.
/me picks a spot in this thread to actually discuss the API. Here
seems the best.
hooray! :)
A quick look over it, and the example, and the plan, and it seems
mostly sane. One thing that stands out straight away in the examples is
the way that a bit of music was defined.
First thing is that you are using something that looks like a typical
tracker, which is fine in itself. Lots of people are familiar with
that. It's a bit verbose though.
well my hope actually was that later we can provide a mod/xm/s3m converter
that
can load one of these files and produce a bunch of edc to include. the only
reason i didn't go right to use libmikmod and just inline mods in your
edj was
that these mod formats don't support ogg/mp3 etc. style sample compression
and i
really want that for space efficiency reasons. i actually wasn't expecting
peolpe to write music in edc. it's POSSIBLE and to be honest - when i did
tracking you literallly did almost what the edc says in text. u arrow down
7,
hit a key to play the sample at that speed (c-3/b-3/f#-2 etc.). you'd
literally just have the sound played at that time as the added bonus.. :)
I think it would be great to also provide an alternative that is more
like MIDI, as that is also used by a lot of people. Have both, that
would cover most things. Actually, the plan includes using a program
per note, which is a bit more MIDI like, but even more verbose than the
pattern style.
a program per note would be bad. programs dont guarantee any timings of any
sort. if u want N channels synced you're in trouble. :( but if u want to
use
embryo.lua then u can write CODE to play but u'll be writing code to have a
timer and call play funcs... maybe from a passed in table/array.. but it'll
boil down to the same thing.
can you expand on the midi thing with some details? last i knew of midi it
was
roughly the same as a single track of a tracker with no defined length -
just
commands to play instr id X at note Y like thngs - much like a tracker.
Can we cut the verbosity levels? Though I guess edje has a similar
problem, and the solution is to go to embryo, or lua (which so far
seems to end up being about half as verbose as embryo, though YMMV).
i'd say the verbosity is on par with a tracker... is that bad?
Second is what you are doing to provide a scale.
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:50:08 -0500 Youness Alaoui kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net wrote: Carsten, a few people have noted their disappointment (and anger) at this being merged and some requested it to be reverted, you didn't even take the time to answer them and address their concerns.. Could you please take the time to do that, since you obviously had time to respond to David with such a long email, it looks bad for you to respond to only what you want and ignore everyone else. Actually, raster has replied a couple of times to those concerns in this thread. I checked before writing that, he only replied to Vincent's mail with : i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on the mailing list first. so have most developers. as such this patch this time was going through me. which isn't let's talk about your concerns but rather a it's fine,I've always done that. Then Mike, Gustavo, Tom and Rafael all responded, agreeing with Vincent and adding their own concerns, and I haven't seen an answer to any of their mails. For the record, I'm not really interested in whether or not it goes in for this release or not. It does not do anything for me within the time frame of this release that I had not already done for the relevant projects. For future projects I'm planning, sure it will be great. So my efforts are on the let's actually talk about the API, and not saying anything about it's release timing. I personally like the API, it is probably too complex for what most people would use it for, but as long as you can do the simple things easily but use more complex constructs for complex stuff, I'm fine with that (I haven't actually looked at how easy it would be for a simple play this .wav when the button is clicked, so can't see if the easy requirement is satisfied). One issue though is that from what I was told, the sound engine is modular inside edje and an alsa module was written. I find this completely absurd to have a sound abstraction module inside edje. It clearly should go into ecore (ecore_sound or something) and have edje use that, because then you'd have people writing alsa/oss/pulse/ps3 modules for edje, but noone can use them outside of edje. That's a big design flaw right there and that's something I disagree with. I am truly excited about having something powerful like that in edje though, but I see Mike/Gustavo/Tom/Rafael's concerns + some of the stuff said on IRC and I have to agree with them. While this is cool, it is not the right time for it to get merged, the API should have been discussed, and it's an important feature that needs to be matured before a release and the 2 week feature freeze is definitely not enough to mature it. Its place is in edje 1.2 or whatever and not to be thrown into svn right before the deadline. While the feature freeze means you can't add new features, it doesn't mean that you can add anything just before it. This isn't the right way of doing things, and it feels like this feature might have been committed at the last minute out of pressions from samsung rather than from a consensus of this is needed and it's the right thing to do amongst the EFL developers. Just my 2 cents. KaKaRoTo -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri
vto...@univ-evry.fr said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio,
not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple
tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't
specify looping params yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch
was not public and we could not have discussed about it before the
commit. So I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on
in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on
the mailing list first. so have most developers. as such this patch
this time was going through me. the comments on the patch so far
havent actually commented on the edc api it adds at all which
everyone is up in arms about for release. so since everyone
complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds: sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra
like being able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode
them, play and mix them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque
to the api.
/me picks a spot in this thread to actually discuss the API. Here
seems the best.
A quick look over it, and the example, and the plan, and it seems
mostly sane. One thing that stands out straight away in the examples is
the way that a bit of music was defined.
First thing is that you are using something that looks like a typical
tracker, which is fine in itself. Lots of people are familiar with
that. It's a bit verbose though.
I think it would be great to also provide an alternative that is more
like MIDI, as that is also used by a lot of people. Have both, that
would cover most things. Actually, the plan includes using a program
per note, which is a bit more MIDI like, but even more verbose than the
pattern style.
Can we cut the verbosity levels? Though I guess edje has a similar
problem, and the solution is to go to embryo, or lua (which so far
seems to end up being about half as verbose as embryo, though YMMV).
Second is what you are doing to provide a scale. I see you are
basically dividing an octave into 7 equal parts, then doing maths to
arrive at the numbers to feed into the system. Now I'll admit that
musical scales are an entire morass of systems, but most western modern
and classical music, going back a few centuries, uses the 12 tone equal
temperament scale, or something very close to it. Except for blues and
jazz, where things can get complicated. Non western music uses a
variety of scales, so it's hard to do one size fits all. Like most of
western culture though, it's becoming the most popular around the
world. I have idea what traditional Korean music is like.
12 tone equal temperament scale divides an octave into 12 equal
parts based on the 12th root of 2, coz things are logarithmic. People
doing basic music stuff should not have to deal with that sort of
maths. lol
On the other hand, I think the API Should provide something more like
scientific pitch notation, as it's easy to write that in ASCII, if you
use b to mean flat. Then the maths for 12 tone temperament scale is
hidden, and music comes out sounding like it should. Could be done with
some macros. So you could provide notes like -
C C# D Eb E etc.
Not sure about specifying octaves above or below the reference sample
or tone, standard scientific pitch notation refers to absolute
pitches. Note that this would be an option, people dealing with not so
common scales can use that as an example, do their own research into
the maths behind their scales, and still be able to use the correct
numbers that suit them.
This is just a quick look. I'll go over it more later.
--
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:50:45 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: I have idea what traditional Korean music is like. Oops, that should have been - I no have idea what traditional Korean music is like. Just in case Samsung and our large contingent of Korean developers care. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:50:45 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri
vto...@univ-evry.fr said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio,
not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple
tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't
specify looping params yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch
was not public and we could not have discussed about it before the
commit. So I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on
in efl. i have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on
the mailing list first. so have most developers. as such this patch
this time was going through me. the comments on the patch so far
havent actually commented on the edc api it adds at all which
everyone is up in arms about for release. so since everyone
complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds: sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra
like being able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode
them, play and mix them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque
to the api.
/me picks a spot in this thread to actually discuss the API. Here
seems the best.
hooray! :)
A quick look over it, and the example, and the plan, and it seems
mostly sane. One thing that stands out straight away in the examples is
the way that a bit of music was defined.
First thing is that you are using something that looks like a typical
tracker, which is fine in itself. Lots of people are familiar with
that. It's a bit verbose though.
well my hope actually was that later we can provide a mod/xm/s3m converter that
can load one of these files and produce a bunch of edc to include. the only
reason i didn't go right to use libmikmod and just inline mods in your edj was
that these mod formats don't support ogg/mp3 etc. style sample compression and i
really want that for space efficiency reasons. i actually wasn't expecting
peolpe to write music in edc. it's POSSIBLE and to be honest - when i did
tracking you literallly did almost what the edc says in text. u arrow down 7,
hit a key to play the sample at that speed (c-3/b-3/f#-2 etc.). you'd
literally just have the sound played at that time as the added bonus.. :)
I think it would be great to also provide an alternative that is more
like MIDI, as that is also used by a lot of people. Have both, that
would cover most things. Actually, the plan includes using a program
per note, which is a bit more MIDI like, but even more verbose than the
pattern style.
a program per note would be bad. programs dont guarantee any timings of any
sort. if u want N channels synced you're in trouble. :( but if u want to use
embryo.lua then u can write CODE to play but u'll be writing code to have a
timer and call play funcs... maybe from a passed in table/array.. but it'll
boil down to the same thing.
can you expand on the midi thing with some details? last i knew of midi it was
roughly the same as a single track of a tracker with no defined length - just
commands to play instr id X at note Y like thngs - much like a tracker.
Can we cut the verbosity levels? Though I guess edje has a similar
problem, and the solution is to go to embryo, or lua (which so far
seems to end up being about half as verbose as embryo, though YMMV).
i'd say the verbosity is on par with a tracker... is that bad?
Second is what you are doing to provide a scale. I see you are
basically dividing an octave into 7 equal parts, then doing maths to
arrive at the numbers to feed into the system. Now I'll admit that
oh.. thats just making use of edje_cc's math handler. speed is 1.0 for play
note at given samplerate ie - if sample is 44.1khz - then play at 44.1khz. 2.0
== play at 88.2khz. 0.5 == play at 22.05khz etc. edje_cc can do inline math
expressions it evals at edje_cc time, so (3/7) becomes 0.428 - it's just me
making it more convenient. i guess it doesnt work well for 1 but for 1 it
works well.
musical scales are an entire morass of systems, but most western modern
and classical music, going back a few centuries, uses the 12 tone equal
temperament scale, or something very close to it. Except for blues and
jazz, where things can get complicated. Non western music uses a
variety of scales, so it's hard to do one size fits all.
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:08:38 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:32:32 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:08:38 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:58:10 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:32:32 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:08:38 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:04:55 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:58:10 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:32:32 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:08:38 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri vto...@univ-evry.fr
said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just
single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as
control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params
yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch was
not public and we could not have discussed about it before the commit. So
I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on in efl. i
have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on the mailing list
first. so have most developers. as such this patch this time was going through
me. the comments on the patch so far havent actually commented on the edc api
it adds at all which everyone is up in arms about for release. so since
everyone complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds:
sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra like being
able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode them, play and mix
them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque to the api.
I'm fairly certain that his objection is not to the API or features it
introduces, but for the timetable and lack of PUBLIC review for such a huge
patch. You continue to claim that it's tiny and it only affects you if you
are using the features it introduces. Both of these are false claims which
have been disproved by me and others.
We have less than two weeks until the 1.1 release. Prior to this addition, EFL
and Edje were considered by everyone in the community be stable and in good
shape. This is no longer the case, and I'm sure there are many others aside
from Vincent who would agree with this sentiment.
I vote that the sound API and all related commits be reverted immediately and
pushed off until after 1.1. Regardless of your expertise on sound
implementations and how solid you may claim it to be, this feature CANNOT be
tested sufficiently to meet EFL quality standards before the release. That alone
should be enough to have ensured that it was never committed in the first
place, other breakages notwithstanding.
--
Mike Blumenkrantz
Zentific: Doctor recommended, mother approved.
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Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Mike Blumenkrantz m...@zentific.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:33:42 +0900
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri vto...@univ-evry.fr
said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not
just
single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as
control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params
yet or other additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch was
not public and we could not have discussed about it before the commit. So
I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on in efl.
i
have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on the mailing list
first. so have most developers. as such this patch this time was going
through
me. the comments on the patch so far havent actually commented on the edc
api
it adds at all which everyone is up in arms about for release. so since
everyone complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here
in short form. it adds:
sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra like
being
able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode them, play and mix
them, resample them, etc. all of which is opaque to the api.
I'm fairly certain that his objection is not to the API or features it
introduces, but for the timetable and lack of PUBLIC review for such a huge
patch. You continue to claim that it's tiny and it only affects you if you
are using the features it introduces. Both of these are false claims which
have been disproved by me and others.
We have less than two weeks until the 1.1 release. Prior to this addition, EFL
and Edje were considered by everyone in the community be stable and in good
shape. This is no longer the case, and I'm sure there are many others aside
from Vincent who would agree with this sentiment.
I vote that the sound API and all related commits be reverted immediately and
pushed off until after 1.1. Regardless of your expertise on sound
implementations and how solid you may claim it to be, this feature CANNOT be
tested sufficiently to meet EFL quality standards before the release. That
alone
should be enough to have ensured that it was never committed in the first
place, other breakages notwithstanding.
Agreed. And to be fair the argument it was a feature, features were
not frozen, if there was bugs then they have to be fixed in the 2
weeks reserved for that is not true.
First of all, the merged feature was not complete. It will break
things like edje_inspect, Edje_Edit users (ie: editje) and seems to
break more than that for couple of people.
This seems like: let's commit 'void foo_feature(void) {
puts(todo);}' to introduce the feature, implementing it during the
feature freeze period reserved to bugfix.
Really, if the freeze is just 2 weeks, what's the point in committing
such a thing at the last minute? Just leave it out, iron the bugs for
1.1, release it ON TIME, then open the trunk and merge it. If there is
a need we can release Edje 1.2 with it in few weeks or months
afterwards.
Given the current approach what happens is that 2 weeks of bugfixing
will not be enough, then we'll extend it, delaying the whole thing for
everybody that depends on releases. People willing to merge features
will give a big Let's do the same -- don't care and will merge their
own stuff, calling it tested, trusted and small... that's the
never-ending story we all know :-(
I do support Mike on this topic.
--
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
--
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Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202
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Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On 09/11/11 16:16, Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: I'm fairly certain that his objection is not to the API or features it introduces, but for the timetable and lack of PUBLIC review for such a huge patch. You continue to claim that it's tiny and it only affects you if you are using the features it introduces. Both of these are false claims which have been disproved by me and others. We have less than two weeks until the 1.1 release. Prior to this addition, EFL and Edje were considered by everyone in the community be stable and in good shape. This is no longer the case, and I'm sure there are many others aside from Vincent who would agree with this sentiment. I concur. I vote that the sound API and all related commits be reverted immediately and pushed off until after 1.1. Regardless of your expertise on sound implementations and how solid you may claim it to be, this feature CANNOT be tested sufficiently to meet EFL quality standards before the release. That alone should be enough to have ensured that it was never committed in the first place, other breakages notwithstanding. No idea what needs to be done about it, but the current situation is indeed problematic. -- Tom. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Tom Hacohen tom.haco...@partner.samsung.com wrote: On 09/11/11 16:16, Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: I'm fairly certain that his objection is not to the API or features it introduces, but for the timetable and lack of PUBLIC review for such a huge patch. You continue to claim that it's tiny and it only affects you if you are using the features it introduces. Both of these are false claims which have been disproved by me and others. We have less than two weeks until the 1.1 release. Prior to this addition, EFL and Edje were considered by everyone in the community be stable and in good shape. This is no longer the case, and I'm sure there are many others aside from Vincent who would agree with this sentiment. I concur. Agreed. I vote that the sound API and all related commits be reverted immediately and pushed off until after 1.1. Regardless of your expertise on sound implementations and how solid you may claim it to be, this feature CANNOT be tested sufficiently to meet EFL quality standards before the release. That alone should be enough to have ensured that it was never committed in the first place, other breakages notwithstanding. No idea what needs to be done about it, but the current situation is indeed problematic. I think that Gustavo's idea of releasing Edje again soon after this release, just to include this sound API, would solve the problem, right? What would be a good reason for not doing that? We already have a different version for eet, keeping that for edje too shouldn't be much pain... -- Rafael Antognolli ProFUSION embedded systems http://profusion.mobi -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:28:50 -0200 Rafael Antognolli antogno...@profusion.mobi wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Tom Hacohen tom.haco...@partner.samsung.com wrote: On 09/11/11 16:16, Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: I'm fairly certain that his objection is not to the API or features it introduces, but for the timetable and lack of PUBLIC review for such a huge patch. You continue to claim that it's tiny and it only affects you if you are using the features it introduces. Both of these are false claims which have been disproved by me and others. We have less than two weeks until the 1.1 release. Prior to this addition, EFL and Edje were considered by everyone in the community be stable and in good shape. This is no longer the case, and I'm sure there are many others aside from Vincent who would agree with this sentiment. I concur. Agreed. I vote that the sound API and all related commits be reverted immediately and pushed off until after 1.1. Regardless of your expertise on sound implementations and how solid you may claim it to be, this feature CANNOT be tested sufficiently to meet EFL quality standards before the release. That alone should be enough to have ensured that it was never committed in the first place, other breakages notwithstanding. No idea what needs to be done about it, but the current situation is indeed problematic. I think that Gustavo's idea of releasing Edje again soon after this release, just to include this sound API, would solve the problem, right? What would be a good reason for not doing that? We already have a different version for eet, keeping that for edje too shouldn't be much pain... That would certainly give me a chance to include the sound stuff in the lua edje API and have it out soon. On the other hand, that don't do my current project any good, it's just more complex code when all I need is to squirt a .wav at /dev/dsp. A problem I have solved already. Still would be neat for other things. B-) -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 22:26:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:04:55 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:58:10 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:32:32 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:08:38 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:33:10 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Where's the .wavs? And the ones for the example in the edje source to while we are at it. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:50:11 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:33:10 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Where's the .wavs? And the ones for the example in the edje source to while we are at it. byo wavs. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 22:26:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: Just in case it helps, here's the bt with symbols. can u try svn now? i moved remix init outside of thread. really not too good imho, but the only solution i have right now. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:19:35 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 22:26:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: Just in case it helps, here's the bt with symbols. can u try svn now? i moved remix init outside of thread. really not too good imho, but the only solution i have right now. That seems to have done the trick, I've been unable to trigger the seggie so far. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:56:48 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? -- Raoul Hecky Calaos -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
Raster, I'm still on the road reading mails at phone until tomorrow, let me
check this tomorrow
After a quick look at the EDC, it's very different from what edje does
today, which may be a major pain for most users. They won't be musicians,
but rather some people scheduling a background music and some feedback
effects. There are also some limits like stereo and allocation of channels.
In my opinion this API should learn from edje mistakes and provide an even
easier API. Try to think of some use cases and plan the examples. Not
trying to fill all possible soundtracking cases. Moreover, very few people
that knows music will do EDC directly, they will propably use some Windows
or OSX app they are experienced and then ask a programmer to convert. Then
some way to generate or load should be planned latter, maybe removing the
need for the complex case? Analogy: you can specify an svg to be loaded or
all the parts as native EDC
One major difference from now, even in the simple program{} case is that
you need to refer to channel numbers and not program names. Today we stop
animations and all based on names.
Also seems some specification syntax is upside down, following C mindset of
declare and use. This is proven to be confusing for most EDC users. It's
better to have nested declarations.
Will check it in details later.
On Monday, November 7, 2011, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just
single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as
control
specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or
other
additional stuff.
--
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Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202
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Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
There are simple cases in his file, but I had the same feeling as you. From an overview this seems like an alien in Edje. It would be nice to have some use cases as focus and streamline them. The rest can remain as is or be removed. But common cases must be simple, straightforward and coherent with existing syntax. On Monday, November 7, 2011, Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com wrote: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? -- Raoul Hecky Calaos -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). i learned a lesson from E 0.1- 0.13 and ebits - they were too limited. they couldn't do enough. the example i gave here is the most complex version. it reduces to simpler use. you can play just a sample. play a sound (that joins sample + effects like envelopes, later looping info), or songs. you don't HAVE to do songs. you can stick to samples and sounds. as such this is what edje does with images, but with audio. with images you have geometry and stacking. with audio you have timing and channels. as for channels - i have considered naming too, but the structure is the same. if you omit channel we can just have it default to the auto channel (ie create new channel for sound as long as it plays). nb - that example is a test case. it's twinkle twinkle little star. :) i've been thinking of the cases where we want audio feedback based on slider value and positions, speed at which it is dragged and what you are touching or dragging over at the time etc. nb - i did keep the same syntax as the rest of edje as at least it's consistent. you declare what sample is what and how to encode, then use it - same with envelopes etc. etc. - edje can actually do this in any order as it does a 2nd pass lookup like it does now. you can use then declare later if u want. oh and yes - i actually was expecting to have tools that can convert from music composition formats to edc at some point. the song thing allows us to later literally inline and use mods/xm/s3m files that have gui editors already - even for linux (yay found milkytracker). problem is these formats traditionally never supported compressed samples, (ogg or flac for example) and thats a problem and why i'd prefer a convert. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edc \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edc \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: *** [postit_ent.edj] Segmentation fault make[3]: *** Deleting file `postit_ent.edj' Oops. Make -j is jumbling that up a bit. Still trying it out on other things in SVN. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edc \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edc \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: *** [postit_ent.edj] Segmentation fault make[3]: *** Deleting file `postit_ent.edj' Oops. Make -j is jumbling
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edc \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edc \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edc \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/postit_ent.edc \
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/font_preview.edc \
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. -- Jérôme Pinot http://ngc891.blogdns.net/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:25 +0900 Jérôme Pinot ngc...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. I take it you are on CentOS or similar? -- Mike Blumenkrantz Zentific: Doctor recommended, mother approved. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. that's because raster keeps setting libdir in configure.ac while, like every variables that are based on $prefix, they are not set at configure time, but at make time. I have a patch that fix that, in addition to cleaning a bit the autotools, but I have to check it a bit more (it changes the names of what AC_DEFINE defines). And I have a cold. So if you can wait 2 or 3 days... Vincent-- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On 11/08/11 05:54, Vincent Torri wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. that's because raster keeps setting libdir in configure.ac while, like every variables that are based on $prefix, they are not set at configure time, but at make time. I have a patch that fix that, in addition to cleaning a bit the autotools, but I have to check it a bit more (it changes the names of what AC_DEFINE defines). And I have a cold. So if you can wait 2 or 3 days... Vincent Not sure I understand. The problem is only for the plugin dir, other libraries went in the right place. I fixed the problem temporarily by issuing: if [ `uname -m` = x86_64 ]; then sed -e 's@lib/remix@lib64/remix@g' -i configure.ac fi -- Jérôme Pinot http://ngc891.blogdns.net/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: On 11/08/11 05:54, Vincent Torri wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. that's because raster keeps setting libdir in configure.ac while, like every variables that are based on $prefix, they are not set at configure time, but at make time. I have a patch that fix that, in addition to cleaning a bit the autotools, but I have to check it a bit more (it changes the names of what AC_DEFINE defines). And I have a cold. So if you can wait 2 or 3 days... Vincent Not sure I understand. The problem is only for the plugin dir, http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/edje/configure.ac#L343 Vincent other libraries went in the right place. I fixed the problem temporarily by issuing: if [ `uname -m` = x86_64 ]; then sed -e 's@lib/remix@lib64/remix@g' -i configure.ac fi -- Jérôme Pinot http://ngc891.blogdns.net/ -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch was not public and we could not have discussed about it before the commit. So I really don't like the way it came into edje. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:36:25 +0900 Jérôme Pinot ngc...@gmail.com said: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. send your patches back to remix dev. i already told him that it needs to export plugin dir as a var so u can properly find it without guessing. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:49:57 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:15:44 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:13:18 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com said: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 23:55:24 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:48:04 +1000 David Seikel onef...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:36:43 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:00:24 +0100 Raoul Hecky raoul.he...@gmail.com said: Le lundi 7 novembre 2011 04:33:10, Carsten Haitzler a écrit : attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Such a huge thing just to play sound in edje... Is it really necessary to have all this in edje or are you just nostalgic of the good old days of trackers?? DAMNED STRAIGHT I AM! :) i just discovered milkytracker! i'm enjoying myself thoroughly! :) seriously though... you CAN still just play samples.. then play samples WITH volume envelopes and looping (sounds as this glues sample+envelopes) and then play entire sequences (a series of samples played with timing), which is the basics for most musical scoring, then combine these into multiple track patterns and put them together into whole songs if u want. it drops down to the simple and up to the whole compose a whole score end of things. if all you ever choose to do is play samples - then its largely irrelevant. reality is that if you want to have complex sound effects you need to start doing all of these little bits. :) let me give an example. scrolling. you want to play some wind blowing when you first start to drag - this may consist of 2 or 3 channels of sound with various wind samples overlayed at staggered intervals to give the impression of something that isn't always looping and repeating (it's a neat trick you also can do with overlayed images). you want this song to fade in then keep looping a few patterns where you really are using 5 or so 5 second samples to create several minutes of wind sound. now when you actually MOVE your mouse (or finger) you year some tinkling sounds that sound like the small glass bells being shaken. these play and fade out becoming quieter the slower your drag and varying pitch depending on how high or low your position is on the scroll range. you would implement these with another few tacks like the wind, applying modifiers for pitch and volume of the play instructions. the bell sample can be 2 or 3 samples like the wind to give the impression of many distinct bells, just played at differing speeds for pitches (you can normally go up 1 octave before it sounds just odd and want to get a new sampling). I'm excited by that. B-) However, with multisense turned on (Ubuntu 10.04, sndfile 1.0.21), when it gets to compiling elementary's edje files I get - /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default.edc \ --../../data/themes/default.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/themes -fd ../../data/themes \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edc \ --../../data/themes/default-desktop.edj ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. ALSA player_plugin init fail Couldn't open any output device. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/themes' Making all in images make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/images' Making all in objects make[3]: Entering directory `/home/dvs1/e17_svn/SVN/trunk/elementary/data/objects' /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/test.edc \ --../../data/objects/test.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/multip.edc \ --../../data/objects/multip.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edc \ --../../data/objects/colorpreview.edj /opt/e17/bin/edje_cc -id ../../data/objects -fd ../../data/objects \ --../../data/objects/cursors.edc \
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:11:28 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri vto...@univ-evry.fr said: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: On 11/08/11 05:54, Vincent Torri wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. that's because raster keeps setting libdir in configure.ac while, like every variables that are based on $prefix, they are not set at configure time, but at make time. I have a patch that fix that, in addition to cleaning a bit the autotools, but I have to check it a bit more (it changes the names of what AC_DEFINE defines). And I have a cold. So if you can wait 2 or 3 days... Vincent Not sure I understand. The problem is only for the plugin dir, http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/edje/configure.ac#L343 plugin has to go into remix's plugin dir to work. thats the only sane place to collect that info. thats what i changed it to. the code that WAS there used libdir and came from the original patch. i didn't add it there as such. it was wrong either way. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:12:32 +0900 Jérôme Pinot ngc...@gmail.com said: On 11/08/11 05:54, Vincent Torri wrote: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Jérôme Pinot wrote: Hmm, second time through, elementary built fine. Might not be edje_cc doing the segfaulting. actually... where do u have remix installed vs edje? i think edje may be installing the remix plugins in the wrong spot for remix. Well, this seems to be the trouble. The remix plugin dir finish by being install in $prefix/lib/remix, even on x86_64. This should be $prefix/lib64/remix Something on the edje configure.ac should be fix to not choose the hardcoded path. I already had to patch libremix for this issue because it installed the 64-bits libs in $prefix/lib64 but not the 64-bits plugin libs (in $prefix/lib/remix) I do not have compat 32-bits libs installed, but in this case, it would become quite a mess. IMHO, both configure.ac (for edje and remix) should be fixed to respect $libdir and install the 64-bits libs in the right place. that's because raster keeps setting libdir in configure.ac while, like every variables that are based on $prefix, they are not set at configure time, but at make time. I have a patch that fix that, in addition to cleaning a bit the autotools, but I have to check it a bit more (it changes the names of what AC_DEFINE defines). And I have a cold. So if you can wait 2 or 3 days... Vincent Not sure I understand. The problem is only for the plugin dir, other libraries went in the right place. yeah - it just chose edje's libdir as base, not remix's - i just fixed that. I fixed the problem temporarily by issuing: if [ `uname -m` = x86_64 ]; then sed -e 's@lib/remix@lib64/remix@g' -i configure.ac fi ok - smells of wrong real fix to me. hack. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:23:27 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri vto...@univ-evry.fr
said:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just
single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control
specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other
additional stuff.
i've never heard about that sound plan before the commit. The patch was
not public and we could not have discussed about it before the commit. So
I really don't like the way it came into edje.
i'm not sure this is much different from anything else that goes on in efl. i
have done work for a decade+ without discussing patches on the mailing list
first. so have most developers. as such this patch this time was going through
me. the comments on the patch so far havent actually commented on the edc api
it adds at all which everyone is up in arms about for release. so since
everyone complaining isn't actually talking about that... i'll write it here in
short form. it adds:
sounds {
sample {
name: NAME ENCODING;
source: SAMPLE_FILE;
}
...
tone: NAME FREQ;
...
}
and 2 more actions:
PLAY_SAMPLE NAME SPEED;
PLAY_TONE NAME DURATION;
that's it. unfortunately to make this WORK u need a chunk of infra like being
able to load and encode samples into edj files, decode them, play and mix them,
resample them, etc. all of which is opaque to the api.
--
- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com
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[E-devel] sound api plan
attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com sound.edc Description: Binary data -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On 07/11/11 05:33, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Is there planned support for lossy compressions? i.e vorbis? (via plugins I guess, just like svg support and etc). -- Tom. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:39:22 +0200 Tom Hacohen tom.haco...@partner.samsung.com said: On 07/11/11 05:33, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: attached. this was a sample edc that would be able to play audio, not just single samples but whole sequences across multiple tracks as well as control specific channels and tracks. it didn't specify looping params yet or other additional stuff. Is there planned support for lossy compressions? i.e vorbis? (via plugins I guess, just like svg support and etc). tit u look at multisense.edc? it's alreayd there. in fact RAW (wav/pcm), COMP (flac) and LOSSY (vorbis). :) edje_cc handles re-encoding whatever samples it finds into the edj file. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] sound api plan
On 07/11/11 09:07, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: tit u look at multisense.edc? it's alreayd there. in fact RAW (wav/pcm), COMP (flac) and LOSSY (vorbis). :) edje_cc handles re-encoding whatever samples it finds into the edj file. I did take a look at the code, but I missed vorbis because I just saw LOSSY and the filename, and with vorbis I automatically expected to see ogg as the container. -- Tom. -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
