date:20051214

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> 
> And two, it is a healthy thing to do in speaking about it
[enlightenment]  as if it is just another experience. Because it
is...just...another...experience. 

And yet so many disagree that it is an experience (if that implies an
experiencer) and so many disagree that it is not special. 

So many distinct views of enlightenemnt, it makes on pause for a
moment to wonder if maybe some are speaking of different things.

Its such a joy that in this age of enlightenment everyone seems free
and joyous to define enlightenment any way they think is "neat" and
then claim it. Sort of like drawing circles, a target, around an arrow
you already shot. On the broadside of the barn. While the fat lady
sings. Its such a joy.

Cake anyone?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Silly ego 
> driven bullshit. 

Yes, though we may differ on the source.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > **
> > 
> > People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
> > to read messages because of this group's being put in 
> Yahoo's "adult" 
> > section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.
> 
> Makes sense.
> 
> lurk
> >
 Even though untrue. Sort of a wonderful parable for many things.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> **
> 
> People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
> to read messages because of this group's being put in 
Yahoo's "adult" 
> section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.

Makes sense.

lurk
>

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>

> I said Ayatolla Maharishi 

Yea, but who's the ayatollah of rock n rolla.

lurk
>

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India


>
> 
 That is the definition
> > of Brahman. 
> > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised,
> > describe her
> > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful
> > because it was and
> > confusion because the mind was never going to figure
> > it out. Not now
> > Not ever. Tom T

That's the thing about spiritual progress.  You keep waiting to 
arrive.  But it's never clear when you do arrive.  Maybe after a 
while things become clear, that you may have reached a milestone.  
But by that time you're dealing with a new set of confusions.

lurk
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice Payback

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> 
> > 
> > Stop smokin' me up, Tom! I refuse to play a part in
> > your psyche anymore. It is very difficult to resist.

Psychiatrist proclaims independence from co-dependence. "But its hard"
he said, exasperated.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 8:36 PM, anonymousff wrote:
> 
> >
> > To me, the latter is far more effective and inviting. And it doesn't
> > have heavy-handedness of cultish procliamations "this is the way it
> > is, period. This interprestation of reality is the only valid one.
> > period. And it is known by means way beyond you. So just take it
> > without questioning."
> 
> One of the reasons an enlightened being will typically not talk about  
> enlightenment or even their own enlightenment is because this is,  
> except for some generalities, of little help in awakening the true  
> state of enlightenment in others. In other words, it's a very  
> inefficient way to introduce that state (either temporarily or  
> permanently) in students.
> 
> It's interesting the culture that has developed in the west from the  
> satsangs of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. It's nothing like the  
> sadhanas that lead them to the non-dual state in the first place.  
> Ramana was a devotee of Kali who had numerous non-dual sadhanas. But  
> he did not teach that to his student (that I am aware of). And  
> Nisargadatta had a Nath guru who undoubtedly taught him some great  
> teaching which lead to his ripening and liberation. But he also would  
> not even talk of these teachings in any detail. They gave no methods  
> for the masses that flocked to them like the ones they themselves  
> used. But laughingly, those who emulate their examples merely parody  
> there darshans as if that will do it. It would be laughable if it  
> wasn't so sad. Even Papaji said none of his students received his  
> final teaching--the final stroke. They were just leeches. But those  
> who tasted--glimpsed--the View of non-duality abruptly claimed it as  
> their own. And then they declared satsangs of their own. And they  
> declared themselves enlightened on their own...even after people like  
> Papaji told them, no, sorry.
> 
> It's like the old saying 'those who know, don't say; those who say,  
> don't know.'
> 
> Worth remembering.
>

The self-proclamation part has always struck me as odd. Linked to the
absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if there is some
insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there are strong mandates
of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And what one can
understand and what one cannot. 

And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a seemingly endless flow of
liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is dumb), constant
wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening, loss of
possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and things), compassion that
seems to be rooted at the core of everything, a limitless sense of
wonder -- and irony, a not so worried view of "pending disasters", a
not so impressed view of pending sucesses, then wonderful. Why not
speak of these things. Why speak in nebulous labels of "liberation, 
awakening, and enlightenment"? Whose liberation, whose awakening? So
many paths, so many traditions make so many distinctions. Lots of
trail markers on this hike. Why be so anxious to claim the pinnacle. 
Why not just claim, if claims are needed,  "I am hiking, and its fun".
(oops, sorry "the body is hiking" 

(And I mean experience not in the sense of "I see the flower" and this
"I experience it", but in the sense of "Consciousness Groking", 

And the process of self-proclamation, what a concept. Someone reads a
book and says "I GET that! I must be enlightened."  "hm, they say here
no-self is enlightenment. I have searched high and low and cannot find
an ego. Ergo I am enlightened."  Yet so many self-proclaimed
enlightened, even  here on this list, but more so else where, directly
contradict each other. 

Sure the indescribable can be approached from different angles. But
its odd when A says "There is absolutely no ego" and B says, "of
course there is an ego, you are insane to think there isn't", and C
says "well, there is an ego, but it finds its proper role as servant,
not master" and D says "You are a fool to try to understand this
paradox of ego, it is Brahman, it is confusion" and E says "well, if
you take this conic section and slice it, its clear the ego is an
elipse with 16 dancing golden elves who are really the ashwins." 
Perhaps they each went to a different Satsang, or read a different book.

Its odd too people claim labels (enlightenemnt, awakening,
liberation", and not specific "attributes" of such. Its as if the
label is a smoke screen for "all attributes". But few are willng to
proclaim specific attributes and discuss in detail. Which if the
purpose is helping others, to promote insight and understanding, could
serve a role. But usually its "la de da liberation". 

The socratic method always struck me as useful. No proclamations.
Simply questions crafted to allow others to get IT in their own way,
by their own means. Not that such should be a universal mandate, but
it does seem to be a humble

[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I've always felt that developing a sense of comfort
> with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is far
> more important to spiritual progress than developing
> a feel (almost always illusory) for one's holiness.

Powerful technique here.  Accepting oneself.  Loving oneself, but 
especially accepting oneself, opens the door to some real progress IMO.

lurk
>

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice Payback

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>

> 
> Stop smokin' me up, Tom! I refuse to play a part in
> your psyche anymore. It is very difficult to resist.
> You are a powerful dude, seriously! I wish you only
> the best, but please stop leaving little and medium
> sized poo-poos all over the carpet here.

Late night chuckle on this one.

lurk
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Judy, 
> > > Just a few off the cuff comments to your thoughtful reply.
> > > 
> > > Regardless of your (our) judgement of Maharishi's state of
> > > consciousness, how the teaching is manifested still has to be
> > > evaluated critically. Does it acomplish it's purpose? This is 
part
> > > process of life.
> > 
> > I'm not sure we can say what its purpose is in a way
> > that would enable us to do a critical evaluation.
> > 
> > How would you define it?
> > 
> > > You'll find the same internal consistency in many of the more 
> > > proment Adviatic, Dzochen, Course in Miracles, etc. teachers. 
And 
> > > many have the same type of character flaws we talk about here.
> > 
> > Sure.  But internal consistency is just one of the
> > criteria I was using.
> > 
> > > Most of us agree that TM has inspired benificial unfoldment of
> > > consciousness.  When we see or come into contact with Maharishi 
we 
> > > get a clearer reflection/experience of OUR own Self (Blazing 
> > > Brahman is non-dual, afterall)
> > > 
> > > We (both us and Maharishi) still have to work it out in the 
> > > relative, no matter what the perspective on where or who or 
from 
> > > what state of consciousness the  teaching comes from. 
> > 
> > Yes, well said.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Without meditators there is no movement, no TMO. 
> > > 
> > > JohnY
> > >
> >
> Sure, the purpose of the teaching is to unfold enlightenment for the
> individual. Simple, if there is no or limited access to the teaching
> how can that happen. Maharishi has planted that seed very widely. 
Why
> should it stop now? Is the TMO fulfilling it's purpose now? Very
> difficult to say. Will it do so in the future? There certainly isn't
> any clear indication of that. The TMO is and has been violently
> contracting on itself. Burning many carefully build bridges along 
the
> way. Slowly and simply teaching all these years would have worked
> better, in my opinion, with much less bullshit.

It's a reasonable perspective, but it isn't exactly
the basis for an objective measurement of whether
MMY's teaching is fulfilling its purpose.  There are
lots of ways to interpret what MMY is doing with the
TMO now, some of which suggest that it will
ultimately facilitate that purpose more than going
slowly and simply.

I've proposed one such: MMY wants to contract the
movement and burn its bridges so that it can be
handed over to King Tony in a nice, neat, self-
contained package of unquestioned loyalty once MMY
dies, which will allow Tony to take firm control
and implement his own plans and ideas without a lot
of controversy (or at least without as much as 
there would have been otherwise).

In other words, the contraction now will make
expansion easier once King Tony takes over.

I have *no* idea if that's correct; obviously we'll
have to wait and see.  We have no idea yet what Tony
will be like as the head of the movement, whether
he'll take it and run with it or get all bogged
down in trying (and inevitably failing) to be a
second Maharishi.

But I don't see anything that would rule out that
interpretation, at any rate.

There's more than one way to skin a cat; plus which,
"Unfathomable is the course of action."  Who can say
what Nature has in mind?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
As they say, 'Denial - Its not just a river in 
> Egypt...'

Thats the river that spreads layers of deep bullshit everywhere isn't it?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > Your mind is never going to get him [MMY]. Never, ever.
> > > Amen. 
> > 
> > 
> > With all due respect and pardons, but that seems quite an odd 
> thing to
> > say. Especially from (no)one proclaiming "no self". 
> > 
> > Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or out of
> > meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label or 
> name.
> > 
> > What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a 
> hallowed
> > out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from 
> the
> > residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, 
> habits,
> > experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, deaths,
> > births,  brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, children, 
> wars,
> > peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, 
> dharma,
> > joy, sadness, dispair and elation. 
> > 
> > What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? Nothing. 
> Other
> > than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all 
> vessels,
> > you and me, are.
> > 
> > So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of 
> billions of
> > personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular personality
> > has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. Strangelove's 
> arm
> > trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that tapestry,
> > with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day ticking 
> of
> > LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows through 
> it all.
> > 
> > What is hard to understand here?
> >
> Good Morning. So, you've narrowed your understanding down to the 
> roughly six and half billion people currently on the planet, all of 
> whom share in common what you have written about your mind's 
> understanding of Maharishi. Are you able to be more specific?


How odd that you feel 6 billion people are hallowed out, crystaline
matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from the residue of
thousands of lives .. (as in roasted samskaras) while living the
fullness of effulgence (not experiences while the samskaras are lively). 

I guess the currency of "liberation" is so low today, anything and
everything passses as it. 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > Your mind is never going to get him [MMY]. Never, ever.
> > Amen. 
> 
> 
> With all due respect and pardons, but that seems quite an odd 
thing to
> say. Especially from (no)one proclaiming "no self". 
> 
> Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or out of
> meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label or 
name.
> 
> What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a 
hallowed
> out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from 
the
> residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, 
habits,
> experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, deaths,
> births,  brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, children, 
wars,
> peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, 
dharma,
> joy, sadness, dispair and elation. 
> 
> What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? Nothing. 
Other
> than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all 
vessels,
> you and me, are.
> 
> So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of 
billions of
> personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular personality
> has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. Strangelove's 
arm
> trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that tapestry,
> with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day ticking 
of
> LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows through 
it all.
> 
> What is hard to understand here?
>
Good Morning. So, you've narrowed your understanding down to the 
roughly six and half billion people currently on the planet, all of 
whom share in common what you have written about your mind's 
understanding of Maharishi. Are you able to be more specific?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---But there's no rule written in stone that Enlightenened people may
> not talk about anything.  HWL Poonja talked about it quite a bit,
> including his experiences with Ramana Maharshi. He also has some
> interesting comments on Maharishi.  His excellent bio can be read in
> the form of 3 volumes by David Godman.

I for one quite enjoy speaking about liberation or enlightenment, for 
two reasons: One, this is the only place I know of where it can be 
done with at least a few folks 'getting it', dear kindred spirit, and 
not getting bogged down in endless spirals of refutation, 

And two, it is a healthy thing to do in speaking about it as if it is 
just another experience. Because it is...just...another...experience. 
Demystifying enlightenment or liberation is a good thing to do. There 
has been too much written and spoken about the experience of 
liberation to have the effect of raising it on a pedestal for all 
seekers, so that even those who have not had such an experience of 
liberation are quite sure how it should be spoken of, or not spoken of.

I am not singling anyone out. I am saying that anyone should be free 
to speak about the experience of liberation, Brahman, enlightenment, 
and the United experience of that, without attaching all the past 
bullshit to it. All the fables, fantasies, mood-making, anti mood-
making, rationalization, skepticism, whatever. No Big Deal here folks. 
Just Enlightenment. Period. 

The resistance I see on this board sometimes to those plainly speaking 
about enlightenment reminds me of a funny expression I came up with 
while working for the TMO about 25 years ago, that I thought captured 
the mindset of those seekers perfectly: "Unbounded awareness is great, 
but enough's enough..." *lol* still cracks me up.

The arguing against it borders on the absurd, as if I declare that I 
am 51, and someone strenuously objects and says, 'no you aren't', 
or 'you think you are, but we are free to see you as 213 years old', 
or someone else says, 'you can't be that old, because if you were, you 
would be like this and that, instead of that and this'. Silly ego 
driven bullshit. As they say, 'Denial - Its not just a river in 
Egypt...'

There is no magic here folks. Enlightened people are just like anyone 
else, only more so. *lol*. We all get enlightened eventually anyway. 
No big deal. Say a prayer. Go for it. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Judy, 
> > Just a few off the cuff comments to your thoughtful reply.
> > 
> > Regardless of your (our) judgement of Maharishi's state of
> > consciousness, how the teaching is manifested still has to be
> > evaluated critically. Does it acomplish it's purpose? This is part
> > process of life.
> 
> I'm not sure we can say what its purpose is in a way
> that would enable us to do a critical evaluation.
> 
> How would you define it?
> 
> > You'll find the same internal consistency in many of the more 
> > proment Adviatic, Dzochen, Course in Miracles, etc. teachers. And 
> > many have the same type of character flaws we talk about here.
> 
> Sure.  But internal consistency is just one of the
> criteria I was using.
> 
> > Most of us agree that TM has inspired benificial unfoldment of
> > consciousness.  When we see or come into contact with Maharishi we 
> > get a clearer reflection/experience of OUR own Self (Blazing 
> > Brahman is non-dual, afterall)
> > 
> > We (both us and Maharishi) still have to work it out in the 
> > relative, no matter what the perspective on where or who or from 
> > what state of consciousness the  teaching comes from. 
> 
> Yes, well said.
> 
> 
> 
> > Without meditators there is no movement, no TMO. 
> > 
> > JohnY
> >
>
Sure, the purpose of the teaching is to unfold enlightenment for the
individual. Simple, if there is no or limited access to the teaching
how can that happen. Maharishi has planted that seed very widely. Why
should it stop now? Is the TMO fulfilling it's purpose now? Very
difficult to say. Will it do so in the future? There certainly isn't
any clear indication of that. The TMO is and has been violently
contracting on itself. Burning many carefully build bridges along the
way. Slowly and simply teaching all these years would have worked
better, in my opinion, with much less bullshit.

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] from Sunthar Visvalingam

2005-12-14 Thread at_man_and_brahman

From: Dharma Mitra
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Abhinavagupta] The Effects On Your Brain And Glands Of Meditation,
Chi Kung, Reiki -- What Do You Want To Know?

I'm doing some research of regular meditation, asana, and subtle energy
practitioners to learn what you would like to know about changes in your
bodies after extended practice of yoga, tai chi, chi kung, and other forms
of meditation, especially changes to glands, lymph, and brain function,
usage, mass, etc.

A recent report in NeuroReport, a neurology profession publication, has
demonstrated extended mass in the prefrontal lobe and other areas of the
brain from the peace-loving practices of longtime Buddhist meditators.
You've often heard of the biophysical effects of meditation and perhaps
witnessed some miracles in people's lives as they continue to practice
sadhanas with sincerity and implicit faith.

What have you pondered about regarding the effects of yoga, chi kung, reiki,
and such on your life, upon other or all practitioners?  Have you felt
changes in your body, in your brain,  perhaps shortly after having received
a new meditation lesson, a new pranayama, or simply having witnessed in
heart and mind a physical response also to the subtler realms of your human
evolution?

I'm developing a proposal to medical centers to research this further, I
welcome your input to help sculpt what that proposal will request of them.
Tell me what you want to know or offer regarding furthering evolution
through these practices.  Do you want to know more about how the glands and
brains of meditators change, contribute to personal growth, and about how
these practices may affect your posterity, evolve  our species to new
thresholds of social, physical, psychic, as well as spiritual excellence
more common to everyone?

I have researchers in place to study the brains of meditators and subtle
energy practitioners, we're formulating the scope of this study now and I
wish your input to congeal the proper attention of our study.

There are many glands in the brain and elsewhere in our bodies that are
positively affected by meditation, pranayama/chi kung, and asanas.  This
current study is geared towards the brain and surrounding areas.

Your curiosity may help me develop a broad-ranging or focused study of
yogis, we may be able to make a snapshot of a quantum leap in evolution.  My
thinking is that before the last iceage, there was a certain general type of
humanoid on the planet, then after the iceage, CroMagnon appeared.  Yogis
have said that the iceage upon us now and the pole shift about to occur will
do the same thing in changing humans into a new species by the time the
poles have shifted and the imminent iceage is over.

I say yoga will prepare coming generations for that change, that the
prefrontal lobe, the foremost portion of the frontal lobe will be much
larger.  Along with serving as the theatre for imagineering, that area of
the brain is also seat of ethics in we humanoid critter people.

Prove to me that you too are evolving a fine prefrontal lobe of your own by
responding ethically and with courtesy with your conscientious suggestions
of what you, as a meditator want to know about the brain's changes resulting
from your practice.

And a mahâsamâdhi to you, too. :-)

Flourishingly,

Dharma Mitra
DharmaMitra2 AT gmail.com

They are "educated" who have learned much, remembered much, and make use of
their knowledge in everyday life.
And of these lessons integrated into their life, moral conscience is the
most imperative to learn and convey to others.
Their virtues give true meaning to education.

- Copywriting - Editing - Publishing - Publicity -

Thanks for this very interesting, unusual, and appropriate post. Just a
couple of directions for inquiry to kick-off this thread:

* Is it possible to *will* the enlargement of the pre-frontal lobes (with or
without meditation)? I had interesting experiments along these lines from
around age 14

* Study of such somatic changes (even in color of body-hair...) might be
extended to any intense (emotionally 'traumatizing') experience of
'self-rejuvenation' (as contrasted to just calm meditation).

regards,

Sunthar

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[FairfieldLife] Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your mind is never going to get him [MMY]. Never, ever.
> Amen. 

With all due respect and pardons, but that seems quite an odd thing to
say. Especially from (no)one proclaiming "no self". 

Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or out of
meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label or name.

What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a hallowed
out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from the
residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, habits,
experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, deaths,
births,  brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, children, wars,
peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, dharma,
joy, sadness, dispair and elation. 

What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? Nothing. Other
than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all vessels,
you and me, are.

So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of billions of
personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular personality
has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. Strangelove's arm
trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that tapestry,
with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day ticking of
LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows through it all.

What is hard to understand here?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---But there's no rule written in stone that Enlightenened people may
> not talk about anything.  HWL Poonja talked about it quite a bit,
> including his experiences with Ramana Maharshi. He also has some
> interesting comments on Maharishi. 

MMY I presume you mean, not RM. If so, what did he say about MMY?

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[FairfieldLife] Candidate for FFL Banner Description

I think Dr Stuphen hit the nail on the head, paraphrasing,

One can  have quite valid observations and insights to temper ones own
experience, but that is not the same as having the ability to
deconstruct the validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. 

x


It seems trouble starts on this board when people try to generalize
their own experience to a universal, to all others. Or when someone
(A) tries to explain another's experience (B) in A's terms and
experience -- and possibly limitations. Or when motives are imputed or
diagnosed (with any basis?)

Not to say one can't speculate as to whether an observation of a few
others behaviors or self-reports, or ones own experience, can be
generalized. But that is far different from proclaiming "my
experience" is THE EXPERIENCE. (Beyond discussion of who this pesky
"my" fellow is.)


(I know this an ADULT board, but "nailing" and "head" above were meant
quite innocently.)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

2005-12-14 Thread qntmpkt

---But there's no rule written in stone that Enlightenened people may
not talk about anything.  HWL Poonja talked about it quite a bit,
including his experiences with Ramana Maharshi. He also has some
interesting comments on Maharishi.  His excellent bio can be read in
the form of 3 volumes by David Godman.

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 8:36 PM, anonymousff wrote:
> 
> >
> > To me, the latter is far more effective and inviting. And it doesn't
> > have heavy-handedness of cultish procliamations "this is the way it
> > is, period. This interprestation of reality is the only valid one.
> > period. And it is known by means way beyond you. So just take it
> > without questioning."
> 
> One of the reasons an enlightened being will typically not talk about  
> enlightenment or even their own enlightenment is because this is,  
> except for some generalities, of little help in awakening the true  
> state of enlightenment in others. In other words, it's a very  
> inefficient way to introduce that state (either temporarily or  
> permanently) in students.
> 
> It's interesting the culture that has developed in the west from the  
> satsangs of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. It's nothing like the  
> sadhanas that lead them to the non-dual state in the first place.  
> Ramana was a devotee of Kali who had numerous non-dual sadhanas. But  
> he did not teach that to his student (that I am aware of). And  
> Nisargadatta had a Nath guru who undoubtedly taught him some great  
> teaching which lead to his ripening and liberation. But he also would  
> not even talk of these teachings in any detail. They gave no methods  
> for the masses that flocked to them like the ones they themselves  
> used. But laughingly, those who emulate their examples merely parody  
> there darshans as if that will do it. It would be laughable if it  
> wasn't so sad. Even Papaji said none of his students received his  
> final teaching--the final stroke. They were just leeches. But those  
> who tasted--glimpsed--the View of non-duality abruptly claimed it as  
> their own. And then they declared satsangs of their own. And they  
> declared themselves enlightened on their own...even after people like  
> Papaji told them, no, sorry.
> 
> It's like the old saying 'those who know, don't say; those who say,  
> don't know.'
> 
> Worth remembering.
>







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: School Sucks

All weirdness comes through Florida eventually.


--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
>
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=48816
> >
> The news is catching even veteran educators by
> surprise.
> "It is not indicative of any school in Duval
> County," said Acting
> Principal Jack Shanklin.
> 
> "I've been in education a long time and I have never
> seen a situation
> like this in any educational setting," he said.
> 
> Which is quite different than suggesting or even
> validating that its
> not happening, and hasn't been happening for a
> longtime. 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative, but perhaps if ol'
> Jack cited some
> thorough investigation into the matter, his good ol
> boy statements
> would carry more weight. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Cultsim and Free Seekers

On Dec 14, 2005, at 8:36 PM, anonymousff wrote: To me, the latter is far more effective and inviting. And it doesn't have heavy-handedness of cultish procliamations "this is the way it is, period. This interprestation of reality is the only valid one. period. And it is known by means way beyond you. So just take it without questioning." One of the reasons an enlightened being will typically not talk about enlightenment or even their own enlightenment is because this is, except for some generalities, of little help in awakening the true state of enlightenment in others. In other words, it's a very inefficient way to introduce that state (either temporarily or permanently) in students.It's interesting the culture that has developed in the west from the satsangs of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. It's nothing like the sadhanas that lead them to the non-dual state in the first place. Ramana was a devotee of Kali who had numerous non-dual sadhanas. But he did not teach that to his student (that I am aware of). And Nisargadatta had a Nath guru who undoubtedly taught him some great teaching which lead to his ripening and liberation. But he also would not even talk of these teachings in any detail. They gave no methods for the masses that flocked to them like the ones they themselves used. But laughingly, those who emulate their examples merely parody there darshans as if that will do it. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Even Papaji said none of his students received his final teaching--the final stroke. They were just leeches. But those who tasted--glimpsed--the View of non-duality abruptly claimed it as their own. And then they declared satsangs of their own. And they declared themselves enlightened on their own...even after people like Papaji told them, no, sorry.It's like the old saying 'those who know, don't say; those who say, don't know.'Worth remembering.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: School Sucks

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=48816
>
The news is catching even veteran educators by surprise.
"It is not indicative of any school in Duval County," said Acting
Principal Jack Shanklin.

"I've been in education a long time and I have never seen a situation
like this in any educational setting," he said.

Which is quite different than suggesting or even validating that its
not happening, and hasn't been happening for a longtime. 

Well, you can't prove a negative, but perhaps if ol' Jack cited some
thorough investigation into the matter, his good ol boy statements
would carry more weight. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread bbrigante

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> ...Britishers..the Raj in India in the 19th Cent.?
> ...maybe scorpions? I think that this is the notorious
> 5/11 press conference when Britain was kicked out of 
> the movement (possibly to see 

what happened if the UK was
> deprived of its TM activity. So far, so good). 

*

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-1930740,00.html

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[FairfieldLife] Cultsim and Free Seekers

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > 
> > Tom T responds:
> > This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> > values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you have
> > any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
> > that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> > Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character and
> > on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try and
> > figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it was and
> > confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not now
> > Not ever. Tom T
> 
> 
> Perhaps you can take insight from Dr. Pete, below. You can speak for
> yourself and your experience, but not really for others. 
> 
> 
> 
> All valid observations and insights that you need to
> temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
> validity of another's experience. You can only talk
> about what you experience, not another. 
> Amen. 
> Dr. PS
> =
> Perhaps Tom meant to say,
> 
> This is the value of Brahman for me. Only what I call Brahman can hold
> those extreme values inside my mind and live with that paradox. If you
> have  any doubt left about what I experience as the nature of Brahman,
> see above and ponder on that for a while and see if you get the same
> insight that I do. For me, this is an experience of the exposition and
> playing out of the  Jaimini sutras. I percieve, and hey it may be my
> ownlimitations, but on one hand is the realtive loony toon character
> and on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva. When I
> go try and figure it out, it am profoundly confused -- in a good way.
> I just for the life of me can't figure it out. Maybe you can, at least
> its worth a try. But that profound confusion, that is the definition
> of Brahman for me.  I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised,
> describe her enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful
> because it was and confusion because it appeared to my mind that her
> mind was never going to figure it out. Not now, Not ever am I ever
> going to figure it out.

While there are a number of examples that could be drawn upon, the
above is handy and illustrates a point I have been pondering. (Thus it
is not specific to Tom, but illustrative of a type of thinking and
proclamation.)

It seems to me, that a characteristic of cults are leader(s) who
proclaim a (near) universal message which applies to most if not all.
Fundamental truths and insights applicable to all. 

A second characteristic often is that there is often a mystical claim
to such insight, via enlightenment, tradition, intuition, cognition,
or other mystical means of knowledge outside of rational explanation.
Examples might be "its vedic", "MMY's latest thinking is", "the
knowledge", "Its my intuition", I'm enlightened and you are not so you
can't undertand what I am saying", "this is an unsolvable mystery, no
one can ever figure it out", "its in the bible", "the founding fathers
said so", "the tarot cards said", "my jyotish chart said", "AV says to
do ..", "south facing entrances", etc.

It appears to me, certainly no proof implied, just a shared insight,
that the original statement about Brahman above, have these two
characteristics. 

In contrast, the re-written suggested text seems characteristic of a
free-thnking, humble seeker (or knower). 

In terms of purpose, both statements appear to seek communicate
something, an insight, that may be useful to others, so that others
can chew on it, and if "nutritious", to digest and incorporate into
their own word view.  

To me, the latter is far more effective and inviting. And it doesn't
have heavy-handedness of cultish procliamations "this is the way it
is, period. This interprestation of reality is the only valid one.
period. And it is known by means way beyond you. So just take it
without questioning."

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[FairfieldLife] Even newer file uploaded to FairfieldLife

Hello,

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis

Judy writes:
Maybe anybody who *trades* on "just trust me" is
automatically not to be trusted.
Tom T
Once got a Bday card showing a shark wearing a suit and tie with a
sign in the backgound saying shark and shark atty's at law. The
caption under the shark was "Trust Me for all y our legal needs." I
thought that was really funny. Tom T





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > What consent degree?
> > > 
> > > Perhaps consent decree was the wrong term. There was an agreement
> > > Yahoo made --apparently with Spitzer -- perhaps others, regarding
> > > chat rooms,
> > 
> > OK, I had a quick look at your links; I remember
> > reading about this now.
> > 
> > > perhaps "Groups" were included
> > 
> > I kind of doubt "Groups" were included.  At least,
> > it would seem that making a group suspected of
> > discussing "adult" material inaccessible to the
> > general public is not the best way of handling
> > the situation--if it isn't accessible except by
> > invitation, all kinds of things could go on there
> > without interference.  At least if the public can
> > read it, anything that looks as though it might
> > facilitate child predation has a chance of being
> > reported.
> > 
> > It was the *privacy* of the chat rooms that was
> > the problem.
> 
> 
> Well the mo of many, across the spectrum of nice people and pervs, in
> many chat rooms, not just teen adult ones, is to engage in some group
> convo, then, privately IM people of interest and  side chat with them
> privately. The same approach could and does happen in some groups as
> well as chat rooms. I think the purpose of the yahoo agreement was to
> create a chinese wall, an inpenetrable firewall, between teens and
> adults. Good for the problem raised, not so good in terms of
> increasing communications and understanding between generations.


And the thing is, a lot of kids go to adult age chat rooms (not
necessarily with xxx adult material" by lying on the "age" entry on
their profile about their age to gain access to where "adults" hang
out. Its funny, because on the text part of their profiles they will
sometimes say things like "I am really 17, but I lied above to get
around yahoos stupid rules that try to keep me in the teen ghetto."









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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.
> > > >
> > > *yawn*...
> > 
> > Ah, dream time aproaches. May the sugar plums be sweet and the rag
> > dolls dance with glee.
> >
> dude, you are quick minded, but that may in fact be your biggest 
> barrier. Good night
>

Sweet dreams.





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[FairfieldLife] re

2005-12-14 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis

Jim Flanegin writes:
> Along the lines of 'delightful confusion', the literally funny
> thing is (and I think you've mentioned this before Tom also...), is 
> that whenever the intellect tries to make sense of the paradox that 
> is Brahman, all that results is this little percolation of bliss.
Judy Stein responds:
Hey, I've had that experience!

Tom T:
Yes!. Pay attention to that. It seems inconsequential but that is the
tag line that leads to deeper and more complete understanding. Go try
to figure and you get Bliss. Crazy isn't it. How to get bliss. Try and
figure it out. Enjoy Tom T

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.
> > >
> > *yawn*...
> 
> Ah, dream time aproaches. May the sugar plums be sweet and the rag
> dolls dance with glee.
>
dude, you are quick minded, but that may in fact be your biggest 
barrier. Good night

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[FairfieldLife] New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

2005-12-14 Thread FairfieldLife


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife 
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  File: /Humor and Satire/enormous_penis.mp3 
  Uploaded by : anonymousff 
  Description : The Tom Pall Upanishad 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > What consent degree?
> > 
> > Perhaps consent decree was the wrong term. There was an agreement
> > Yahoo made --apparently with Spitzer -- perhaps others, regarding
> > chat rooms,
> 
> OK, I had a quick look at your links; I remember
> reading about this now.
> 
> > perhaps "Groups" were included
> 
> I kind of doubt "Groups" were included.  At least,
> it would seem that making a group suspected of
> discussing "adult" material inaccessible to the
> general public is not the best way of handling
> the situation--if it isn't accessible except by
> invitation, all kinds of things could go on there
> without interference.  At least if the public can
> read it, anything that looks as though it might
> facilitate child predation has a chance of being
> reported.
> 
> It was the *privacy* of the chat rooms that was
> the problem.

Well the mo of many, across the spectrum of nice people and pervs, in
many chat rooms, not just teen adult ones, is to engage in some group
convo, then, privately IM people of interest and  side chat with them
privately. The same approach could and does happen in some groups as
well as chat rooms. I think the purpose of the yahoo agreement was to
create a chinese wall, an inpenetrable firewall, between teens and
adults. Good for the problem raised, not so good in terms of
increasing communications and understanding between generations. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > >Not  now  Not ever. Tom T
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even 
> > democratically-
> > > elected / appointed political leaders "like I can't explain it 
> > pretty
> > > good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to 
do it 
> > so
> > > I done it, I invaded Iraq" revert to the same claim -- "just 
trust 
> > my
> > > explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you 
can
> > > never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's 
> > will',
> > > 'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
> > > mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 
> > > 
> > > How to differentiate I wonder?
> > >
> > Intuition, ...plain...and...simple.
> 
> 
> A problem with "intuition", in general, is that it can and is used 
by
> spiritual and political charlatans and others (look at bush, "I 
just
> got a hunch its the right thing", "I feel it strongly in my gut" --
 as
> if thats some sort of proof or validation of some lame brained 
thing
> that pops into his head. He really needs Byron Katie and have 
himself
> ask about each of his thoughts "Is it true?" "Do I really know its
> True"). 
> 
> Spiritual charlatans can justify "great things" by saying the 
insight
> is from their (implied, "highly refined, highly evolved") 
intuition.
> Any questioning of such brings the easy retort "well, if you don't
> HAVE it, I can't explain it to you" or some such spurious and
> condescending comment. (with a small smirk and chuckle too)
> 
> Personally using "intuition", if that includes forsaking rational
> analysis, is such a trap for so many. On the other hand, intuition,
> insight, that is then tested or thought through rationally, can be 
a
> great tool. Part of a package. But to use it exclusively, in the 
above
> post, to discern wheat from chaf, charlatans from those with 
insight,
> appears naive. But  each to his own, going with what works.
> 
> If I were to go by intuition alone, I would take a number of posts 
on
> this list  as unrepentant mood making. But I try to keep an open 
mind,
> the rational side keeps the door open.
>
All good points. I think of the tool of intuition as something to 
continually be tested and verified. Otherwise, as you imply, it can 
easily be subverted by 'magical thinking' and lead to delusion.

However I have come to strongly rely on it to at least send up a 
signal flag about something or other. A good example is at work, my 
boss said the other day that she trusts my judgement but remarked 
that she wished I'd get to the point more quickly (not a 
lamentation, but more an observation). I replied that I first felt 
my reaction in my body (what I call intution) and then figure out 
what it is telling me. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Jim.
> **
Sure thing!

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[FairfieldLife] Geeks Rule

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3270764






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > What consent degree?
> 
> Perhaps consent decree was the wrong term. There was an agreement
> Yahoo made --apparently with Spitzer -- perhaps others, regarding
> chat rooms,

OK, I had a quick look at your links; I remember
reading about this now.

> perhaps "Groups" were included

I kind of doubt "Groups" were included.  At least,
it would seem that making a group suspected of
discussing "adult" material inaccessible to the
general public is not the best way of handling
the situation--if it isn't accessible except by
invitation, all kinds of things could go on there
without interference.  At least if the public can
read it, anything that looks as though it might
facilitate child predation has a chance of being
reported.

It was the *privacy* of the chat rooms that was
the problem.

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[FairfieldLife] School Sucks

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=48816





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > 
> Tom T responds:
> This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you have
> any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
> that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character and
> on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try and
> figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it was and
> confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not now
> Not ever. Tom T


Perhaps you can take insight from Dr. Pete, below. You can speak for
yourself and your experience, but not really for others. 



All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. 
Amen. 
Dr. PS
=
Perhaps Tom meant to say,

This is the value of Brahman for me. Only what I call Brahman can hold
those extreme values inside my mind and live with that paradox. If you
have  any doubt left about what I experience as the nature of Brahman,
see above and ponder on that for a while and see if you get the same
insight that I do. For me, this is an experience of the exposition and
playing out of the  Jaimini sutras. I percieve, and hey it may be my
ownlimitations, but on one hand is the realtive loony toon character
and on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva. When I
go try and figure it out, it am profoundly confused -- in a good way.
I just for the life of me can't figure it out. Maybe you can, at least
its worth a try. But that profound confusion, that is the definition
of Brahman for me.  I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised,
describe her enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful
because it was and confusion because it appeared to my mind that her
mind was never going to figure it out. Not now, Not ever am I ever
going to figure it out.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Marek Reavis

Thank you, Jim.
**

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Comment/Question below:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > **SNIP**
> >  Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
> > > youHa Ha
> > >
> > **SNIP TO END**
> > 
> > Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your
> > interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Marek
> >
> Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 
> 
> Other than that, I've always detested mood making, and just followed 
> the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my desire began to form 
> when I read in the Gita about God having a personal form, in order 
> for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily on Him.
> 
> At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to Maharishi, but just 
> couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It always felt dry, 
> like trying to fall in love with someone and you just can't. 
> 
> But I sure was attracted to that picture of Brahmananda Saraswati- 
> his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I just really 
> admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true saint, who can live 
> in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!
> 
> And it just went from there. Probably driven more from a sense of 
> humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.
> 
> I wrote a very few notes during that time:
> 
> "January 22, 1993
> from communion
> 
> Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,
> 
> perfect body; to look upon any part of His form instantly leads the 
> mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using the sense of 
> sight.
> 
> perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your perfect dad and best 
> friend.
> 
> perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the lotus, looking 
> out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the universe."
> 
> PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from memory.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.
> >
> *yawn*...

Ah, dream time aproaches. May the sugar plums be sweet and the rag
dolls dance with glee.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >Not  now  Not ever. Tom T
> > 
> > 
> > Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even 
> democratically-
> > elected / appointed political leaders "like I can't explain it 
> pretty
> > good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it 
> so
> > I done it, I invaded Iraq" revert to the same claim -- "just trust 
> my
> > explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
> > never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's 
> will',
> > 'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
> > mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 
> > 
> > How to differentiate I wonder?
> >
> Intuition, ...plain...and...simple.

A problem with "intuition", in general, is that it can and is used by
spiritual and political charlatans and others (look at bush, "I just
got a hunch its the right thing", "I feel it strongly in my gut" -- as
if thats some sort of proof or validation of some lame brained thing
that pops into his head. He really needs Byron Katie and have himself
ask about each of his thoughts "Is it true?" "Do I really know its
True"). 

Spiritual charlatans can justify "great things" by saying the insight
is from their (implied, "highly refined, highly evolved") intuition.
Any questioning of such brings the easy retort "well, if you don't
HAVE it, I can't explain it to you" or some such spurious and
condescending comment. (with a small smirk and chuckle too)

Personally using "intuition", if that includes forsaking rational
analysis, is such a trap for so many. On the other hand, intuition,
insight, that is then tested or thought through rationally, can be a
great tool. Part of a package. But to use it exclusively, in the above
post, to discern wheat from chaf, charlatans from those with insight,
appears naive. But  each to his own, going with what works.

If I were to go by intuition alone, I would take a number of posts on
this list  as unrepentant mood making. But I try to keep an open mind,
the rational side keeps the door open.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis"
> > 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Comment/Question below:
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "jim_flanegin" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > **SNIP**
> > >  Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm
> > tattling on 
> > > > youHa Ha
> > > >
> > > **SNIP TO END**
> > > 
> > > Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any
> > details regarding your
> > > interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Marek
> > >
> > Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 
> > 
> > Other than that, I've always detested mood making,
> > and just followed 
> > the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my
> > desire began to form 
> > when I read in the Gita about God having a personal
> > form, in order 
> > for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily
> > on Him.
> > 
> > At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to
> > Maharishi, but just 
> > couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It
> > always felt dry, 
> > like trying to fall in love with someone and you
> > just can't. 
> > 
> > But I sure was attracted to that picture of
> > Brahmananda Saraswati- 
> > his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I
> > just really 
> > admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true
> > saint, who can live 
> > in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!
> > 
> > And it just went from there. Probably driven more
> > from a sense of 
> > humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.
> > 
> > I wrote a very few notes during that time:
> > 
> > "January 22, 1993
> > from communion
> > 
> > Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,
> > 
> > perfect body; to look upon any part of His form
> > instantly leads the 
> > mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using
> > the sense of 
> > sight.
> > 
> > perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your
> > perfect dad and best 
> > friend.
> > 
> > perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the
> > lotus, looking 
> > out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the
> > universe."
> > 
> > PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from
> > memory.
> 
> Very nice experience. I've never felt a strong
> connection to him. Different dharmas for different
> karmas. 
> 
Well said- a matter of getting our -armas around IT ;)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In 
> > 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > jim_flanegin writes; snipped
> > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
> > intellect,  
> > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
> > master-
> > >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
> > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
> > > 
> > > Tom T responds:
> > > This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those 
extreme
> > > values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If 
you 
> > have
> > > any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and 
ponder on
> > > that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> > > Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon 
character 
> > and
> > > on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go 
try 
> > and
> > > figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of 
Brahman. 
> > > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> > > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it 
> was 
> > and
> > > confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. 
Not 
> > now
> > > Not ever. Tom T
> > >
> > Along the lines of 'delightful confusion', the literally funny
> > thing is (and I think you've mentioned this before Tom also...), 
is 
> > that whenever the intellect tries to make sense of the paradox 
that 
> > is Brahman, all that results is this little percolation of bliss.
> 
> Hey, I've had that experience!
> 
Cool! I'm not surprised- I've heard it is also why some jokes are 
funny, e.g my brother's a great magician, he walked down the street 
and turned into a drugstore... 
> > 
> > Many times a day I will juxtapose two complete opposites in my 
> mind, 
> > the intellect will try for a resolution, going deeper and 
deeper, 
> > finally give up, bounce into the transcendent, back out again, 
and 
> > I'll break into a smile or small chuckle at this universal 
infinite 
> > joke...
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > In his dreams?
> > > > >
> > > > Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to 
> > convince 
> > > > anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was 
> > some 
> > > > fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as 
many 
> > would 
> > > > understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are 
folks 
> > out 
> > > > there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've 
been 
> > > > meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 
> > > 
> > > Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack 
thereof,  
> > > pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational 
explanation, 
> > or
> > > ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend 
yourself on
> > > those grounds. As in Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, 
> > methinks."
> > > 
> > > I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: 
sains 
> > often
> > > come in deams; "field of dreams" -- create the "field" and they
> > > (saints) will come; "I have a dream" -- a desire to be in the 
> > presence
> > > of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- "in his
> > > imagination" -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All 
> > together, a
> > > funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life 
any 
> > less 
> > > > of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 
> > > 
> > > Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's 
> > voice?)
> > > 
> > > > So what?
> > > 
> > > So Hum?
> > > 
> > > By the way, do you have a match sir?
> > >
> > Akasha, please go practice your cynicism and rationalizations 
> > elsewhere. Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
> > youHa Ha
> 
> What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.
>
*yawn*...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Because we're an adult newsgroup now, should we
> include the word, "vagina" and "nipple" in every post
> somehow?

Ha Ha! At least the term 'xxx', and be sure to always put 'adult' in 
quotes...

> --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our
> > objections.  Even 
> > a 
> > > few hundred emails from folks here should get the
> > point across.  
> > I've 
> > > always considered Yahoo a lame organization with
> > lame developers.  I 
> > > alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have
> > to know how to 
> > > implement one on a web site.
> > > 
> > > - Bhairitu
> > > 
> > > 
> > Count me in. What is the best email address to send
> > to?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM
> >
> ---
-~->
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Or go to: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What consent degree?

Perhaps consent decree was the wrong term. There was an agreement
Yahoo made --apparently with Spitzer -- perhaps others, regarding chat
rooms, perhaps "Groups" were included, and to genearlly shape up. It
appears there was also advertiser pressure.

http://www.chatmag.com/news/101505_yahoo_chat.html

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/oct/oct12a_05.html

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69188,00.html

 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> All valid observations and insights that you need to
> temper your own experience with,

Actually all of the questions I wrote: the inner
consolidation/condensation of ones own  projections of how the world
(and gurus) should be; could the need to experience a teacher as
"blazing brahman" justify the umpteen years poured into the trivial
etc., are prompted from re"viewing", questioning and speculating about
my own experiences with saints. 

> not deconstruct the
> validity of another's experience. 

Who said anything about any specific other's experience? It was a
serious of questions about "the general" drawn from observation and
speculation of my own experiences, "the specific"

> You can only talk
> about what you experience, not another. 

OK I will try to keep that in mind when such circumstances arise. I
assume you will also.

> And certainly
> don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
> Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
> Amen. 

Aren't you now guilty of what you just preached not to do? It appears
valid for you to conclude that your mind is never going to get him. 
But it seems baseless for you to conclude that another mind, much less
all minds, are incapbable of getting him, or of anything for that
matter. Isn't "all possibilities" part of the credo of this group? 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I 
wonder if 
> > > we're being "monitored".  I certainly hope so.  We've had a 
good two 
> > > weeks of postings.
> > > 
> > > lurk
> > >
> > **
> > 
> > People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to 
join 
> > to read messages because of this group's being put in 
Yahoo's "adult" 
> > section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.
> 
> 
> Nope, not true. But one does have to sign in to ANY yahoo user name,
> whether its a FFL member or not, to get to the homepage.
> 
> I think the adult thing is a general crack down yahoo 
has "consented"
> to, reachng an agreement after facing serious prosecution from 
Elliot
> Spitzer or some prosecutor of his zeal, stemming from a percieved
> environment for potential sexual abuse of minors in yahoo's chat 
rooms. 
> 
> Yahoo has  eliminated all its "user-defined" chat rooms -- which 
while
> creative in name and content at times, did on face value, look 
pretty
> raunchy -- such as "High School Gurls Who Love Older Guys" etc.  For
> years there was lots of basic sex drugs and rock-in-roll content, 
and
> more importantly to some, the appearance of such, in these totally
> uncensored rooms.
> 
> And the extra "adult" screen to get to FFL now talks about options 
for
> concerned parents who want to protect their children. I would guess
> that many groups are now "adult" -- based on yahoo's scan of key
> words. They apear to be wanting to err on the side of caution and 
show
> "good faith" in complying with the spirit of the consent decree.

What consent degree?

>






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[FairfieldLife] Good News! New DNR rule - Urgent deadline

2005-12-14 Thread Rick Archer

Title: Good News! New DNR rule - Urgent deadline

-- Forwarded Message
From: JFAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:21:52 -0800
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Good News! New DNR rule - Urgent deadline

Dear JFAN friends,

We're very pleased to give you this good news: DNR is proposing a tougher new rule to control ground water pollution from CAFOs! Please email the EPC members listed at the end of this message to show your support – by this Friday!

Here are the details: The Iowa Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is trying to implement a proposal to better protect Iowa’s waterways from the pollution of hog confinements.  The DNR says confinements have increased significantly in the last two years, many in areas vulnerable to groundwater pollution.

At this Monday’s meeting of the Iowa Environmental Protection Commission (EPC), the DNR will propose a new rule to evaluate and place conditions on proposed animal confinements and manure management plans that could pose a threat to natural resources or the environment. The DNR will evaluate proposed operations based on:
if manure will be applied on frozen or  snow-covered crop fields,  
the distance from sensitive areas such as  public land, trout streams and areas where fractured bedrock lies close to the  land surface,  
the potential for manure to enter a  stream, including steep slopes (greater than nine percent), type of vegetation  and presence of waterways, and  
if the operation is located in a two-year  capture zone for a public water supply.
"The DNR is basically giving public notice of the criteria that would be used when we review construction permit applications and manure management plans that could potentially cause environmental problems," said Vonk, DNR Director. "This proposal would allow the DNR to place conditions on a proposed building or manure management plan, or to deny it completely if it posed a threat to water quality."  

JFAN joins Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement (ICCI) in calling for immediate implementation of the new rule.

The DNR had originally stated they would put the rule through as an emergency rule, which means that it would go into effect immediately. The DNR has now backed away from this and will put it out for public comment. 

We strongly support the rule, however, Iowans should not have to
wait any longer to have some protection against factory farms.
We need this rule now.

It is most important that you contact the EPC commissioners and DNR Director Vonk before December 19th and let them know you support this rule and need it to take effect now!  Just send them a simple message in your own words letting them know you are for the new rule on water pollution and CAFOs, and want it to take effect December 30.

Here are their e-mail addresses:  

Lisa Davis Cook Donna Buell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]     [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Henry Marquard Jerry Peckumn, Vice-Chair
[EMAIL PROTECTED]       [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Darrell Hanson, Chair Francis Thicke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]      [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Suzanne Morrow    Mary Gail Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

David Petty    DNR Director Jeff Vonk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks for helping keep Jefferson County healthy and prosperous! If you have any questions, email us or call 209-6600.

JFAN Board
Jefferson County Farmers and Neighbors, Inc.
P.O. Box 811
Fairfield, IA 52556
www.jfaniowa.org  
641-209-6600

-- End of Forwarded Message

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > jim_flanegin writes; snipped
> > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
intellect,  
> > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
master-/
> >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
> > transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
> > 
> > Tom T responds:
> > This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> > values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
have
> > any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
> > that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> > Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
and
> > on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
and
> > figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it 
was and
> > confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
now
> > Not ever. Tom T
> 
> 
> Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even 
democratically-
> elected / appointed political leaders "like I can't explain it 
pretty
> good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it 
so
> I done it, I invaded Iraq" revert to the same claim -- "just trust 
my
> explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
> never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's will',
> 'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
> mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 
> 
> How to differentiate I wonder?

Maybe anybody who *trades* on "just trust me" is
automatically not to be trusted.

>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> Judy, 
> Just a few off the cuff comments to your thoughtful reply.
> 
> Regardless of your (our) judgement of Maharishi's state of
> consciousness, how the teaching is manifested still has to be
> evaluated critically. Does it acomplish it's purpose? This is part
> process of life.

I'm not sure we can say what its purpose is in a way
that would enable us to do a critical evaluation.

How would you define it?

> You'll find the same internal consistency in many of the more 
> proment Adviatic, Dzochen, Course in Miracles, etc. teachers. And 
> many have the same type of character flaws we talk about here.

Sure.  But internal consistency is just one of the
criteria I was using.

> Most of us agree that TM has inspired benificial unfoldment of
> consciousness.  When we see or come into contact with Maharishi we 
> get a clearer reflection/experience of OUR own Self (Blazing 
> Brahman is non-dual, afterall)
> 
> We (both us and Maharishi) still have to work it out in the 
> relative, no matter what the perspective on where or who or from 
> what state of consciousness the  teaching comes from. 

Yes, well said.

> Without meditators there is no movement, no TMO. 
> 
> JohnY
>

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 6:07 PM, authfriend wrote: Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.  Fundies meditate? They pray (presumably).





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 2:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:
> 
> > It's odd. If Maharishi's so right-wing how come almost everyone
> > connected with him in the West leans so far left? It's a strange  
> > thing.
> 
> It is.
> 
> It's just the paradox of Brahman, so stop worrying. And he just has
> a  funny way of showing his compassion. All is well.
> 
> Is there great difference between a Christian fundie school kid 
> who quotes the bible, talks of the Big Bang and tells about Jesus 
> and a MSAE kid who quotes scientific literature, talks about AGNI 
> and unified field theory to sell you his idea from M.?

The second is a lot more sophisticated, interesting,
and intellectually challenging, IMHO.

> Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.

Fundies meditate?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > jim_flanegin writes; snipped
> > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
> intellect,  
> > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
> master-
> >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
> > transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
> > 
> > Tom T responds:
> > This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> > values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
> have
> > any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
> > that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> > Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
> and
> > on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
> and
> > figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it 
was 
> and
> > confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
> now
> > Not ever. Tom T
> >
> Along the lines of 'delightful confusion', the literally funny
> thing is (and I think you've mentioned this before Tom also...), is 
> that whenever the intellect tries to make sense of the paradox that 
> is Brahman, all that results is this little percolation of bliss.

Hey, I've had that experience!

 
> 
> Many times a day I will juxtapose two complete opposites in my 
mind, 
> the intellect will try for a resolution, going deeper and deeper, 
> finally give up, bounce into the transcendent, back out again, and 
> I'll break into a smile or small chuckle at this universal infinite 
> joke...
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > In his dreams?
> > > >
> > > Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to 
> convince 
> > > anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was 
> some 
> > > fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
> would 
> > > understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks 
> out 
> > > there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
> > > meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 
> > 
> > Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
> > pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, 
> or
> > ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
> > those grounds. As in Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, 
> methinks."
> > 
> > I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains 
> often
> > come in deams; "field of dreams" -- create the "field" and they
> > (saints) will come; "I have a dream" -- a desire to be in the 
> presence
> > of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- "in his
> > imagination" -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All 
> together, a
> > funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.
> > 
> > 
> > > To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any 
> less 
> > > of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 
> > 
> > Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's 
> voice?)
> > 
> > > So what?
> > 
> > So Hum?
> > 
> > By the way, do you have a match sir?
> >
> Akasha, please go practice your cynicism and rationalizations 
> elsewhere. Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
> youHa Ha

What a wonderful rorshoch test this is. The world is as we are.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: HaHo9's reply....Turq's Carde's and Stutphen's

Thanks for your response Hanumanhoffman9...it is
appreciated and I feel like I know you a bit now! I'm
sure we did program together back in the day.

--- hanumanhoffman9 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Why do you post these things to this newsgroup
> and
> > > then not interact with anyone about them?
> > 
> > I'm not HH9, but I might venture an opinion.
> > Often on this and other Internet discussion
> > groups, "interact with" has become synonymous
> > with "defend yourself."  And with reason.  It
> > seems *expected* that if you post a few things
> > that you feel are uplifting that someone will
> > take offense or want you to explain further
> > and "justify yourself" for posting them. Some-
> > times all you feel like doing is making a 
> > statement, passing along something that you
> > find inspiring, with the faint hope that others
> > might find it inspiring as well.  When someone
> > goes out of his or her way to crap on your
> > parade, it kinda takes the fun out of things.
> > So I suspect that some people just post the
> > things they find inspiring and allow them to
> > stand on their own, and allow those who want
> > to "discuss" them ad infinitum and drain all 
> > the power from them to do so on their own.  
> > 
> > Just a guess, but an "informed" guess, having 
> > been there, done that once or twice.
> >
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Turquoise has pretty much hit it on the head.
> And to answer Cardemaister's and Dr. Pete's
> questions.
> 
> I learned the TM technique in Des Moines, Iowa in
> 1971. SCI Humbolt 1972. Became a 
> teacher in Zinal, Suisse after 6 months of rounding
> in 1974. After another 6 months of 
> rounding in spring of 1976, I was called a Governor.
> (What a ruse)
> I took what was called a Siddhis course in early
> '78. Went on to the Rhode Island Project 
> that same summer with 7 buddies from Iowa. And while
> I was in the field bringing in the 
> corn the morning of Oct. 13th that year, I got a
> call asking if I could be in NYC that night 
> to go somewhere on the World Peace Project. (No time
> to throw it on the grinding stone) I 
> did make it to NYC that night and found this body in
> Costa Rica just a couple of days later 
> and then ended up in Nicaraugua under Martial Law. 
> Moved to DC in spring of '83 and was a twice a day
> participant at the "Senate" "super-
> radiance".  I attended what was called Utopia that
> winter. Was one of the first group of 
> teachers to perpetuate "Unified Field Theory" in the
> Philippines in the summer of '84. 
> I moved to Fairfield May of 1985 where I was
> committed to twice a day in those filthy 
> domes for 12 years. Attended the Noida "Pioneers"
> course in 1988. (I didn't tell them I had 
> taken the Sterling Men's Weekend or Ali Najafi's SET
> courses.) I towed the line, or so they 
> thought, in order to get what I thought was "perfect
> knowledge".  Wonderful times and 
> happy for the opportunities.
> 
> Then in 1996 I was given a cd called "Inner Healing"
> by Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda 
> Swamiji and a picture of Lord Dattatreya.
> To make a long story short, the shifts that took
> place were beyond anything I'd ever 
> dreamed, a beautiful wife, a beautifully magical
> place in the country, great friendships, 
> and Sat Chit Ananda through this new music. I then
> gave it all up. Sold the farm, burned 
> my badges, went on pilgrimages to Trinidad and
> India, and now live in Eugene, Oregon 
> under the constant guidance of my Guru, to whom you
> may have become more familiar 
> through this 18 day seva I have undertaken.
> 
> It shows that there are 1032 members in this group.
> I find that maybe there are maybe 
> 20-30 regular posters at best. What is that 2-3%?
> Granted many of the listed members 
> may have lost interest and have not unsubscribed. It
> is evident that the regular 
> participants here are dedicated to their stories and
> who am I to suggest otherwise?
> 
> Lord Dattatreya has been mostly unknown in USA. It
> is to those that may be listening in 
> the wings of this group, who are maybe feeling
> disillusioned, as I once was about Guru 
> and the lack of such, that I address these posts. I
> choose to post the wisdom of Sri 
> Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji, who gives good
> advice about guru and gaining 
> SatyaLoka.  I don't presume to know anything but
> what He and the scriptures say. He is 
> Ganapathi and Sat Chid Ananda.
> If one soul finds some resonance with anything that
> has been posted by me and sees some 
> light in this darkness then I say Jaya Guru Deva
> Datta. I am not posting these pearls to 
> discuss their viability or validity. The source of
> this knowledge is indisputable. This 
> statement may raise some neck hairs, but more
> knowledgeable souls than what occupy 
> this group have attempted suc

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > MMY's personality is very much a product of his
> > time
> > > and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
> > > "cosmic". Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
> > an
> > > aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
> > Hindu
> > > man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
> > fist
> > > for the past 50 years.
> > 
> > Boy, I think this is an important point.
> > 
> > Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
> > slightly differently and say, This is *how*
> > Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
> > this particular aging, slightly senile,
> > lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
> > run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
> > for the past 50 years?
> 
> Yes, better stated your way.

Dunno about "better."  Just another angle, really.

> > I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
> > *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
> > either of these two statements.
> > 
> > But people tend to look at the *expression*,
> > find it to be much less than what they think
> > of as "perfection" in a relative sense, and
> > on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
> > Brahman.
> 
> Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
> realized master, good luck! For example in a
> residential Art of Living course I took about a year
> ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
> casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
> ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
> wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
> about the difficulty in walking around and how much
> time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
> another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
> at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
> serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
> Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
> be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
> 
> > Of course whether he has or hasn't is still
> > one's individual take; it's just that the take
> > shouldn't be based, it seems to me, on the
> > perceived distance of the expression from what
> > they would consider relative perfection.
> 
> The first time I saw MMY in 1972 my mind blew wide
> open and left absolutely no doubts about his Realized
> status. And in every ensuing contact with him over the
> years this has happened over and over again with the
> experience getting deeper and deeper everytime.
> 
> > So what should it be based on??  I assume
> > realized people and nonrealized people have
> > different ways of evaluating MMY's state of
> > consciousness.
> 
> Your own direct experience...only!

Well, I've never been in his presence, so if I'm
going to make such a determination, I have to rely
on other means.

> > From my unrealized perspective, it's a
> > combination of a gut hunch, and my awe at the
> > depth, comprehensiveness, and internal
> > consistency of his teaching on the nature and
> > mechanics of consciousness (including its
> > implementation in the TM technique), as well 
> > as the teaching'sextraordinary explanatory value.
> 
> Right, you find great value in his teachings.
> > 
> > It just doesn't seem possible to me that a person,
> > no matter how brilliant their mind, could come up
> > with such a teaching purely on an intellectual
> > basis.  It has to be coming from some basis in
> > higher intuitive knowledge (or Knowledge, to
> > distinguish it from intellectual knowledge).
> 
> Ageed!
> > 
> > Of course, that's still based on a sense of how
> > close MMY's expression comes to my idea of 
> > relative perfection, which is what I just said
> > you shouldn't do.
> 
> I don't think we can ever, to a complete degree, get
> away from this. In fact, it perhaps is a foolish
> "spiritual "ideal.

Sure.  The question is whether some relative expressions
give one a more accurate idea of the higher reality than
others.  Seems to me his teaching on consciousness is
a more accurate measuring tool in this regard than his
political/social behavior, but I'm having trouble
articulating why this should be the case.

> > Now I'm trying to figure out on what basis I think
> > evaluating his teaching on the nature and mechanics
> > of consciousness is a more appropriate criterion on
> > which to have an opinion of his realization, versus
> > evaluating the sensibleness of his political and
> > social pronouncements and what he's been doing with
> > the TMO.
> > 
> > Help me out here.  They're both measuring what MMY
> > expresses against a personal idea of relative 
> > perfection.  Why should choosing one *type* of
> > expression over another make a difference?  Or
> > are both approaches essentially absurd?
> > 
> > Obviously I've gone off on something of a tangent
> > here...
> 
> Yeah, but a good tangent  I think, u

Re: [FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)



--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I've always felt that developing a sense of
> comfort
> > with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is
> far
> > more important to spiritual progress than
> developing
> > a feel (almost always illusory) for one's
> holiness.
> 
> Except for Tom Pall, of course, who is required to
> expunge his thoroughly unacceptable assholiness
> forthwith and offer abject apologies to those he has
> offended, under threat of exposure as an asshole to
> his yagya suppliers.
> 
> 

Body slam, Judy! 4 points!




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

Because we're an adult newsgroup now, should we
include the word, "vagina" and "nipple" in every post
somehow?

--- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our
> objections.  Even 
> a 
> > few hundred emails from folks here should get the
> point across.  
> I've 
> > always considered Yahoo a lame organization with
> lame developers.  I 
> > alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have
> to know how to 
> > implement one on a web site.
> > 
> > - Bhairitu
> > 
> > 
> Count me in. What is the best email address to send
> to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>  
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



--- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis"
> 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Comment/Question below:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > **SNIP**
> >  Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm
> tattling on 
> > > youHa Ha
> > >
> > **SNIP TO END**
> > 
> > Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any
> details regarding your
> > interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Marek
> >
> Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 
> 
> Other than that, I've always detested mood making,
> and just followed 
> the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my
> desire began to form 
> when I read in the Gita about God having a personal
> form, in order 
> for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily
> on Him.
> 
> At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to
> Maharishi, but just 
> couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It
> always felt dry, 
> like trying to fall in love with someone and you
> just can't. 
> 
> But I sure was attracted to that picture of
> Brahmananda Saraswati- 
> his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I
> just really 
> admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true
> saint, who can live 
> in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!
> 
> And it just went from there. Probably driven more
> from a sense of 
> humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.
> 
> I wrote a very few notes during that time:
> 
> "January 22, 1993
> from communion
> 
> Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,
> 
> perfect body; to look upon any part of His form
> instantly leads the 
> mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using
> the sense of 
> sight.
> 
> perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your
> perfect dad and best 
> friend.
> 
> perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the
> lotus, looking 
> out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the
> universe."
> 
> PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from
> memory.

Very nice experience. I've never felt a strong
connection to him. Different dharmas for different
karmas. 


 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. And certainly
don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
Amen. 

--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > snip
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
> > > > > transcending my intellect,  
> > > > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to
> his
> > > > > actions. Like a master-
> > > > >  disciple relationship only in the
> transcendent;
> > > > > ONLY in the 
> > > > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.
> > > > 
> > > > Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on
> the
> > > > surface at all. It's all sentimentality and
> ego up
> > > > there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of
> Brahman
> > > > that just PULLS you into it and flattens all
> the
> > > > bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva
> whirling in
> > > > absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
> > > 
> > > And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
> > > is a subjective feeling. 
> > 
> > A polite way of saying "mood making", perhaps? 
> > 
> > And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of
> ones own 
> > projections of how the world (and gurus) should
> be? I mean 
> > if one thinks MMY or whoever is "IT", "THE ONE",
> won't the 
> > mind almost automatically create a sense of that
> experience 
> > when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
> > rare event / (always a) special occasion?
> 
> Absolutely. The rarer the event is, the more likely
> it is that the expected experience will occur.
>  
> > Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were
> around MMY 
> > constantly experience him as "blazing brahman".
> 
> Absolutely not. That's why most of them left. Each
> of us is free to decide whether they were right in 
> their decision to leave or not.
> 
> > Could the need to experience a teacher as "blazing
> brahman" justify
> > the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at
> least in part as
> > trivial and silly projects of his?
> 
> I think so. There is a strong tendency in all humans
> to justify what one has dedicated years to. This
> tendency
> often keeps people paying lip service to what they
> have
> dedicated years to *years* past the time when they
> no
> longer feel it deserves their dedication. Most of
> the
> people I've ever met who have walked away from a
> strong
> involvement with a spiritual tradition have said
> that
> they did so several years later than they should
> have.
> The realization that they no longer "fit" predated 
> their ability to accept or act on that realization.
> 
> > Someone once said that the grandeur of the
> "described" experience
> > around the teacher is inversely proportional to
> ones proximity.
> 
> There *is* a proximity factor at work here. The aura
> 
> of a teacher is usually stronger in his/her close
> proximity than it is far away. That is, until and
> unless one develops an inner connection with the 
> teacher that transcends time and space. At that
> point, distance no longer matters.
> 
> But there are a myriad of energies that swirl around
> a strong spiritual teacher. In my opinion, some of
> these energies have to do with enlightenment, with
> eternity itself. Other of the energies have to do 
> with the finite teacher and his or her good points,
> and his or her lingering samskaras. One of the
> things
> that tends to happen when one is in close proximity
> to a strong teacher is that one is bombarded by both
> types of energies, and can have a hard time figuring
> out which is which. Thus people sometimes begin to 
> mistake the strong energy of the lingering samskaras
> 
> for the strong energy of enlightenment.
> 
> Just an opinion, but one based on experience...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've always felt that developing a sense of comfort
> with (and forgiveness for) one's assholiness is far
> more important to spiritual progress than developing
> a feel (almost always illusory) for one's holiness.

Except for Tom Pall, of course, who is required to
expunge his thoroughly unacceptable assholiness
forthwith and offer abject apologies to those he has
offended, under threat of exposure as an asshole to
his yagya suppliers.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have received an email relating to a press conference in which MMY 
> allegedly "made himself look and sound like an Ill tempered raving 
> lunatic."
> Does anyone know of such a conference and do they have a transcript?

...Britishers..the Raj in India in the 19th Cent.?
...maybe scorpions? I think that this is the notorious
5/11 press conference when Britain was kicked out of 
the movement (possibly to see what happened if the UK was
deprived of its TM activity. So far, so good). But if one 
wants to study the effects of a sudden deprivation, there
needs to be activity before. There wasn't. 

The transcript is on FFL, and will be about two to 
three weeks after May 11th. (Not easy to trace).
Uns.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Comment/Question below:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> **SNIP**
>  Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
> > youHa Ha
> >
> **SNIP TO END**
> 
> Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your
> interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marek
>
Hi, yes- please see my answer to Vaj's question. 

Other than that, I've always detested mood making, and just followed 
the genuine desires of my heart. As I recall my desire began to form 
when I read in the Gita about God having a personal form, in order 
for us to be able to focus our devotion more easily on Him.

At the time, I really wanted to be devoted to Maharishi, but just 
couldn't ever get personally jazzed about it. It always felt dry, 
like trying to fall in love with someone and you just can't. 

But I sure was attracted to that picture of Brahmananda Saraswati- 
his facial expression and the look in his eyes. I just really 
admired that- I thought, yeah, there is a true saint, who can live 
in the jungle, etc. That is a resolute Being!

And it just went from there. Probably driven more from a sense of 
humility and desperation and surrender, than piety.

I wrote a very few notes during that time:

"January 22, 1993
from communion

Guru dev, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati,

perfect body; to look upon any part of His form instantly leads the 
mind on an inward march toward the Absolute, using the sense of 
sight.

perfect heart; to be near Him feels like your perfect dad and best 
friend.

perfect mind; to gaze into his eyes is to sit in the lotus, looking 
out over vast galaxies of stars; a throne upon the universe."

PS I got the date wrong earlier, when replying from memory. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

2005-12-14 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even 
> a 
> > few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  
> I've 
> > always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
> > alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
> > implement one on a web site.
> > 
> > - Bhairitu
> > 
> > 
> Count me in. What is the best email address to send to?

At the moment, we could find our emails and
identies being recorded on Pornography
databases. It needs sorting.

Emails get ignored. Try regular mail with a 
copy to a significant person. Ask a specific
question and require an answer. It may sound 
stupid, but I can't work out if Yahoo is
basically American or English. I have a feeling
it is English and spread to the States soon enough.
If this is the case, then write to:

Managing Director,
Yahoo! UK Limited,
125 Shaftesbury Avenue,
London. WC2H 8AD.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:55 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
> 
> > Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince
> > anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some
> > fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
would
> > understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out
> > there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been
> > meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like.
> 
> Were you able to touch him?
>
Really good question. Yes, but it was subtle body to subtle body. I 
do recall three things at different times: once, laying my head at 
his feet, looking into his eyes, and holding his hand while we went 
for a walk. I honestly have no explanation for how any of that 
occurs. 

It began slowly with increasing visions of him over about 12 years, 
getting closer, and then one day, he was there with me. It felt like 
such a natural thing to happen, given my heart's desire at the time, 
and I was so overcome with bliss I really didn't think about it at 
all when it occurred, and have just tried to integrate it into my 
life since.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-
> > face?
> >>
> > It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 
1993.
> > The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other 
contact
> > with him, but this one lasted the longest.
> 
> Were you the person who saw him at the rock concert and everyone 
was  
> hurling? (seriously-- that was reported here once).
>
Ha Ha! No, though if that person is reading this, I'd be interested 
in any details...other than about the puking that is










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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

More thoughts:

If you create a FFL2, you'd probably have to post to it occasionally 
to make sure that it wasn't cancelled by Yahoo, but I think they 
would send the owner or moderator(s) warnings before doing so. You 
may also need to have two or members to stay in business.

Another thought is that you might create a group just for the 
purpose of experimenting with what made Yahoo change the category. 
This would be a group that doesn't allow new memberships. 

Examples of tests:

a) You could put the full FFL description on the home page and wait 
a few days to see what happens. Maybe you would get immediate 
feedback, like when you were not able to save the word "bondage" in 
the description. 

b) Try uploading the "Sexy Sadie" files.

If the switch of category of FFL was "automated," these kinds of 
tests ought to yield some results. If it was caused by someone's 
complaints, well, that's another matter.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Rick,
> 
> Here's an idea:
> 
> Create a new group called FairfieldLife2. Use the same home page 
> description as on FairfieldLife, except, perhaps, leaving out 
> anything that might categorize it as an "adult" site. Also, add a 
> line at the top which states something like - "To access 
> FairfieldLife, log into any Yahoo account, then go to this 
url ..." 
> with maybe a brief explanation of why needed. This way, people 
just 
> doing searches will find FairfieldLife2 and from there, find 
> FairfieldLife.
> 
> You could put a longer explanation in a post sent to the new group 
> and give the post a subject heading inviting and encouraging 
> newcomers to read it.
> 
> If possible, you could also disallow anyone else posting to the 
new 
> group, so that it doesn't become an unintentional competing mess. 
> Maybe also don't allow people to join, because all that you want 
is 
> to point people to the other group. So, like FFL, FFL2 would allow 
> non-members to read the home page and browse the archives.
>

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread Marek Reavis

Comment/Question below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

**SNIP**
 Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
> youHa Ha
>
**SNIP TO END**

Jim, if you don't mind sharing, is there any details regarding your
interaction(s) with Guru Dev that you can relate?

Thanks,
Marek

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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

Rick,

Here's an idea:

Create a new group called FairfieldLife2. Use the same home page 
description as on FairfieldLife, except, perhaps, leaving out 
anything that might categorize it as an "adult" site. Also, add a 
line at the top which states something like - "To access 
FairfieldLife, log into any Yahoo account, then go to this url ..." 
with maybe a brief explanation of why needed. This way, people just 
doing searches will find FairfieldLife2 and from there, find 
FairfieldLife.

You could put a longer explanation in a post sent to the new group 
and give the post a subject heading inviting and encouraging 
newcomers to read it.

If possible, you could also disallow anyone else posting to the new 
group, so that it doesn't become an unintentional competing mess. 
Maybe also don't allow people to join, because all that you want is 
to point people to the other group. So, like FFL, FFL2 would allow 
non-members to read the home page and browse the archives.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:55 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince  anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some  fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would  understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out  there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been  meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like.  Were you able to touch him?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India



On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to- face?  It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 1993.  The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other contact  with him, but this one lasted the longest. Were you the person who saw him at the rock concert and everyone was hurling? (seriously-- that was reported here once).





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > snip
> > > > 
> > > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
> > > > transcending my intellect,  
> > > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
> > > > actions. Like a master-
> > > >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
> > > > ONLY in the 
> > > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.
> > > 
> > > Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
> > > surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
> > > there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
> > > that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
> > > bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
> > > absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
> > 
> > And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
> > is a subjective feeling. 
> 
> A polite way of saying "mood making", perhaps? 
> 
> And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of ones own 
> projections of how the world (and gurus) should be? I mean 
> if one thinks MMY or whoever is "IT", "THE ONE", won't the 
> mind almost automatically create a sense of that experience 
> when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
> rare event / (always a) special occasion?

Absolutely. The rarer the event is, the more likely
it is that the expected experience will occur.

> Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were around MMY 
> constantly experience him as "blazing brahman".

Absolutely not. That's why most of them left. Each
of us is free to decide whether they were right in 
their decision to leave or not.

> Could the need to experience a teacher as "blazing brahman" justify
> the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at least in part as
> trivial and silly projects of his?

I think so. There is a strong tendency in all humans
to justify what one has dedicated years to. This tendency
often keeps people paying lip service to what they have
dedicated years to *years* past the time when they no
longer feel it deserves their dedication. Most of the
people I've ever met who have walked away from a strong
involvement with a spiritual tradition have said that
they did so several years later than they should have.
The realization that they no longer "fit" predated 
their ability to accept or act on that realization.

> Someone once said that the grandeur of the "described" experience
> around the teacher is inversely proportional to ones proximity.

There *is* a proximity factor at work here. The aura 
of a teacher is usually stronger in his/her close
proximity than it is far away. That is, until and
unless one develops an inner connection with the 
teacher that transcends time and space. At that
point, distance no longer matters.

But there are a myriad of energies that swirl around
a strong spiritual teacher. In my opinion, some of
these energies have to do with enlightenment, with
eternity itself. Other of the energies have to do 
with the finite teacher and his or her good points,
and his or her lingering samskaras. One of the things
that tends to happen when one is in close proximity
to a strong teacher is that one is bombarded by both
types of energies, and can have a hard time figuring
out which is which. Thus people sometimes begin to 
mistake the strong energy of the lingering samskaras 
for the strong energy of enlightenment.

Just an opinion, but one based on experience...

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread MDixon6569







In a message dated 12/14/05 11:00:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
teaching'sextraordinary explanatory 
  value.
  There's a Freudian slip if ever I saw one!

O caught that one also LOL!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if 
> > we're being "monitored".  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two 
> > weeks of postings.
> > 
> > lurk
> >
> **
> 
> People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
> to read messages because of this group's being put in Yahoo's "adult" 
> section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.

Nope, not true. But one does have to sign in to ANY yahoo user name,
whether its a FFL member or not, to get to the homepage.

I think the adult thing is a general crack down yahoo has "consented"
to, reachng an agreement after facing serious prosecution from Elliot
Spitzer or some prosecutor of his zeal, stemming from a percieved
environment for potential sexual abuse of minors in yahoo's chat rooms. 

Yahoo has  eliminated all its "user-defined" chat rooms -- which while
creative in name and content at times, did on face value, look pretty
raunchy -- such as "High School Gurls Who Love Older Guys" etc.  For
years there was lots of basic sex drugs and rock-in-roll content, and
more importantly to some, the appearance of such, in these totally
uncensored rooms.

And the extra "adult" screen to get to FFL now talks about options for
concerned parents who want to protect their children. I would guess
that many groups are now "adult" -- based on yahoo's scan of key
words. They apear to be wanting to err on the side of caution and show
"good faith" in complying with the spirit of the consent decree. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > 
> > > In his dreams?
> > >
> > Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to 
convince 
> > anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was 
some 
> > fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many 
would 
> > understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks 
out 
> > there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
> > meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 
> 
> Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
> pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, 
or
> ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
> those grounds. As in Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, 
methinks."
> 
> I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains 
often
> come in deams; "field of dreams" -- create the "field" and they
> (saints) will come; "I have a dream" -- a desire to be in the 
presence
> of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- "in his
> imagination" -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All 
together, a
> funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.
> 
> 
> > To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any 
less 
> > of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 
> 
> Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's 
voice?)
> 
> > So what?
> 
> So Hum?
> 
> By the way, do you have a match sir?
>
Akasha, please go practice your cynicism and rationalizations 
elsewhere. Besides the next time I see Guru Dev, I'm tattling on 
youHa Ha





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > >
> > 
> > In his dreams?
> >
> Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince 
> anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some 
> fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would 
> understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out 
> there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
> meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 

Its funny, no one said anything about belief, or lack thereof,  
pretending, fantasies, desperately needing a rational explanation, or
ego aggrandizement. Yet you jump immediately to defend yourself on
those grounds. As in Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

I thought the remark about dreams funny -- multi-leveled: sains often
come in deams; "field of dreams" -- create the "field" and they
(saints) will come; "I have a dream" -- a desire to be in the presence
of saints; and yes the slightly disparaging one -- "in his
imagination" -- somewhat declawed by its juxtapostion. All together, a
funny (and tasty) sandwich of meanings, in my mind.

> To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any less 
> of an enlightened and enlightening experience? 

Sounds deep. Perhaps too much for me. (As deep a Barry White's voice?)

> So what?

So Hum?

By the way, do you have a match sir?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1032 Members

2005-12-14 Thread bbrigante

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You know, we suddenly jumped from 1000 members to 1032.  I wonder if 
> we're being "monitored".  I certainly hope so.  We've had a good two 
> weeks of postings.
> 
> lurk
>
**

People who were able to lurk before without joining now have to join 
to read messages because of this group's being put in Yahoo's "adult" 
section, that's probably why the jump in numbers.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even 
a 
> few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  
I've 
> always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
> alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
> implement one on a web site.
> 
> - Bhairitu
> 
> 
Count me in. What is the best email address to send to?

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Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

2005-12-14 Thread Bhairitu

What we really should do is pummel Yahoo with our objections.  Even a 
few hundred emails from folks here should get the point across.  I've 
always considered Yahoo a lame organization with lame developers.  I 
alway prefer forums to groups anyway but you have to know how to 
implement one on a web site.

- Bhairitu

Rick Archer wrote:

>For some reason the bozos at Yahoo recently switched FFL¹s classification to
>the http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/Romance___Relationships/Adult category.
>This obligates people to agree to Yahoo¹s Porn conditions before being
>admitted to the messages. I also just discovered that FFL no longer comes up
>in the results when you search for it or for any of the keywords in its
>description in the ³Find a Group² box at http://groups.yahoo.com/. This is
>probably true of all groups in the adult category. I would like to submit an
>appeal to Yahoo and would like some of you to help me by exploring the Yahoo
>Groups category structure and recommending the ideal category for FFL. I
>will then begin to pester Yahoo to change our category. I obviously did not
>choose the adult category when I started this group. I believe I chose
>something in the communities category. I wonder if they switched us because
>Tom Pall complained, or whether they automatically detect profanity in posts
>and assign groups to the adult category if they find any. Anyway, this
>situation handicaps the group and I would like to remedy it. Thanks in
>advance for your help.
>
>  
>

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > jim_flanegin writes; snipped
> > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my 
intellect,  
> > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a 
master-/
> >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
> > transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
> > 
> > Tom T responds:
> > This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> > values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you 
have
> > any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder 
on
> > that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> > Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character 
and
> > on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try 
and
> > figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> > I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> > enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it 
was and
> > confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
now
> > Not ever. Tom T
> 
> 
> Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even 
democratically-
> elected / appointed political leaders "like I can't explain it 
pretty
> good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it 
so
> I done it, I invaded Iraq" revert to the same claim -- "just trust 
my
> explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
> never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's 
will',
> 'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
> mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 
> 
> How to differentiate I wonder?
>
Intuition, ...plain...and...simple.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-face?
> > 
> > 
> > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > 
> > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
> > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
> > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment of 
> > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar of 
> > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > >
> >
> 
> In his dreams?
>
Believe what you want. I have not stated such a thing to convince 
anybody. On the other hand, I am not going to pretend it was some 
fantasy, or that I mention this for ego aggrandizement as many would 
understand it, or keep quiet about it because there are folks out 
there that desperately need a rational explanation. You've been 
meditating long enough, deal with it, however you like. 

It was what it was, and served as a strong catalyst for me. If you 
have any genuine questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

To paraphrase what Barry Wright said earlier, is daily life any less 
of an enlightened and enlightening experience? This was just that- 
An experience during daily life- the fulfillment of a desire.

So what?

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[FairfieldLife] Sharanagati

Jaya Guru Datta

>From Sadguru Sukti Sangraha of Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji

Sharanagati  (The Path of Surrender)   

Among the four paths for self-perfection and  release from the worldly bondage 
viz. jnana  
yoga, bhakti yoga, karma yoga and prapatti  yoga shown by the  Geetaachaarya, 
prapatti 
orÊ sharanagati i.e. the yoga of surrender is most suited for  the present-day 
man.

The path of surrender does not require an  extremely sharp intellect which is 
needed for 
pursuing the path of  knowledge (jnana yoga). It also does not require the 
supreme love 
for  God which is the essence of the path of devotion (bhakti yoga). It also  
does not 
involve any action to be converted into yoga of action, as  propounded in the 
scriptures. 
Yet, the path of surrender (prapatti)  possesses the main characteristics of 
all the three.

Extreme discrimination is necessary to decide as  to whom to surrender and how 
to 
surrender. Surrender becomes lifeless if  there is diluted love for the 
Supreme. Therefore, 
the element of love is also present in the path of prapatti.  A sharanaagata or 
prapanna 
i.e.,  the one he who has surrendered, is not a log of wood. He discharges all  
his duties Ð 
social, moral and religious, as an instrument of the  Divine.

Surrendering totally oneÕs body, mind and  intellect at the feet of the lord is 
a true 
surrender. In the life of sharanaagata, there has to be no element of ego 
whatsoever. It has  
been rightly said, Ôto approach and enter the door of Divine, one must  become 
nakedÕ i.e. 
stripped of the ego. ÔSarva  dharma paritajya, maamekam saranam vrajah.Ó

In Datta Seva 

Hanuman






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-
face?
> 
It was when I lived near Washington DC, around March or April 1993. 
The experience lasted for about three days. Also had other contact 
with him, but this one lasted the longest.


> > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > 
> > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
> > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
> > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment of 
> > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar of 
> > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Datta Jayanthi message 2004


Jaya Guru Datta

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/dattajayanti2004/dec24/
dec24_hh_speech.html

SRI SWAMIJI'S DATTA JAYANTI SPEECH ON 24.12.2004 AT 12PM
For many, spiritual interest is the last resort when nothing works out. Though 
it is 
unfortunate, it is true. Imagine this. When a person is dying, we try all 
methods to revive 
his life. We give him oxygen, we give shock treatment to revive his life. Many 
people 
entertain the feeling that going to a temple, God or Sadguru should be  the 
last resort 
when all else have failed. We think that we are too busy for any spiritual 
practices in life. 
Getting spiritual or religious in the last days of your life is of no use. It 
is like pushing a 
dying wick in a oil lamp further to squeeze the last strains of oil left in it. 
It is futile. Many 
feel that they are very good to society and that their ancestors built a 
temple, which will 
help the generations to come. Some also get ego by studying some books. Ego is 
the 
greatest stumbling block., The cause of ego could be education, haughtiness or 
false 
pride. Sadguru never misleads you. HE will only ask you to follow the good 
tenets of life 
like truthfulness, being good to others etc., Apart from this there is one very 
important 
thing. In spite of having everything in life, one occasionally feels empty. 
This empty feeling 
can be quite nagging. It can be psychologically damaging. Unfortunately most 
people have 
one another problem. That is wanting more. If you have money, you want even 
more. If 
you have a contended family, you want even more happiness. Doubts persist about 
Guru, 
Vedanta and spirituality. But you try to display a gait that you do not have 
any doubts. But 
when alone, the mind gets tired by this nagging emptiness. All this emptiness 
is there 
because you have no patience to do any spiritual practice with implicit faith 
and 
truthfulness.

We also are restless. We get restless when there are no spicy news on the TV. 
It is not 
good for health at all. You should not seek horrific news. In Europe, the 
garbage bin is 
quite ornamental and comafoulaged. People are driven to use it. But we have 
over spilling 
garbage bins, spreading the bad odor all around. Who goes  there to use it? 
Nobody! The 
very purpose is lost. Like you clean your teeth everyday, you should also clean 
your shoes, 
the garbage bin etc., Don't you still brush your teeth in the morning after 
eating Tirupati 
Laddus the previous night? Do you fear that the good Blessings it brought to 
you gets 
washed away? No.

Imagine this. You have a cow. You clean the cow everyday. You milk the cow. The 
vessel is 
yours. Don't you wash that vessel everyday? In spite of being the owner of the 
cow, the 
vessel etc., you still wash the vessel just to make sure that the milk does not 
get decayed. 
Like wise, In spite of having your own mind, you should still clean it 
everyday. For such 
activity, you should read Dattatreya story daily. He learnt from all types of 
Gurus. From 
snakes, women, from a bee etc., It is not a story. It is a guide for daily 
life. Because he 
Blessed us with such information, he is Guru for Devathas, for Manavaas. 
Everyday is Datta 
Jayanti. Even after become greatly educated, you must always remember  that 
there is a 
invisible energy that is helping you. We follow Sadguru to help us understand 
that invisible 
energy. One you understand, you will be full of bliss. I am not saying you 
should never get 
doubts. All I am saying is that you should not search for doubts. All it needs 
from you is 
little bit of patience. You would not have got the doubt, if there were no 
answer for it. It 
has come because there is an answer for it. Everything is planned by that 
invisible energy. 
If we acknowledge our existence to that energy humbly and truthfully, you will 
be a 
winner. We all are puppets in the hands of that energy.

You may believe it or not. You may have suspicion or not. But believe me. 
DATTATREYA is 
the GREATEST.

Dattatreya is not a story. Dattatreya is discovering your self. Dattatreya is 
self-surrender. 
Dattatreya is not Panchamrita Abhisheka. We do it to gain concentration. Puja 
is level one. 
It is like the foundation for a house. We do it daily till death to ensure that 
the monkey 
mind does not trouble you.

Look at a horse man in Mysore city. They have a humble and weak horse and take 
people 
in carriages around the city. He has a whip in his right hand, he holds the 
reins in his left 
hand and makes strange grunting noises from the bottom of his stomach. He and 
the 
horse can understand that communication. I want you all to write an essay 
explaining what 
it means. Do it.

Sri Guru Datta

In Datta Seva

Hanuman

 





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[FairfieldLife] If you find Shiva lingams interesting..

Jaya Guru Datta
If you find Shiva lingams interesting..

The following links and story relate to the miraculous discovery of this 
hundreds of years 
old  Sachchidanandeshwara Shiva lingam installed at Dattapeetham in Mysore. 
Keep in 
mind while reading that it was underground and its weight beyond any normal 
person's 
capacity to lift. Note the Cobra, which was said to be golden in the original 
story.

Images:
http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2002/march12_evening/
march12_evening.html

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2004/feb18_eve/feb18_eve.html


Subject: Life History of H.H. Sri Swamiji 179

Happily she went into the kitchen and with the assistance of Jayamma prepared a 
meal for 
her brother. Swamiji entered into the kitchen while she was cooking the food 
and enquired 
about the kitchen while she was cooking the food and enquired about the welfare 
of the 
family members. She told him that grandfather Linganna had gone to Ratnapuri 
(Near 
Honasur) to his farmland and started agricultural work again. Savitramma was 
staying with 
him in the village. After the "Biksha" Swamiji asked Vara to eat at the 
ashrama. By the time 
she finished her meal and went to him. He had organised to get a new saree for 
her. He 
gave her the saree as a present and blessed her. He told her, "You should start 
calling me 
Swamiji like all the mothers in here. Like all the mothers here you are also 
one of the 
mothers to me." Crestfallen, Vara went back to her house. Satyanandeshwara Next 
day 
Swamiji sent some of his devotees to Ratnapuri. He wanted them to find out if 
there was 
an old Shiva temple or a Shivalingam, which did not receive any worship by the 
public. 
They came back with the news that there were no such things in that village. 
The rumour 
was that in olden days there was a Shiva temple, which had sunk into the earth 
in course 
of time. "I must go there today," Swamiji said. "It is not practical. Even if 
we go by a taxi, 
we cannot reach there before the night falls. We cannot do anything in the 
night. Let us go 
tomorrow," suggested some of the elders. "Lord Shiva is not keeping quiet. I 
cannot help 
the feeling that I must go immediately," Swamiji told them. They had no option 
but to 
agree. They got a taxi and went to Ratnapuri. They reached the village by 
nighttime. 
Ratnapuri is a small village. When the car arrived throwing red mud on all the 
bypassers, 
about 10 villagers came near the taxi. "Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji has 
come from 
Mysore. We believe there is a Shiva Lingam in this village. We have come to 
search for it," 
the passengers in the car told the villagers. The news of the arrival of 
Swamiji spread 
quickly and the villagers soon gathered round the car. Linganna spoke to his 
grandson and 
explained about the purpose of visit by Swamiji to the villagers. In the cold, 
dark evening, 
with the help of hand held torches, Swamiji walked along the fields exploring 
for the site 
of the Shiva Lingam. Within half an hour he stopped at a place and said, "Shiva 
is here. We 
must dig this area carefully." That spot was agricultural land belonging to a 
farmer. It had 
some seasonal crops growing in it. The farmer who owned the land suggested to 
wait till 
the harvesting was complete. Swamiji did not agree to that suggestion. The 
devotees who 
had accompanied Swamiji were willing to buy the land from the farmer. The 
villagers 
unanimously agreed that they had no objection in letting Swamiji take the 
Lingam. The 
fact that the Lingam was in their village and was not receiving the traditional 
poojas was 
not going to be auspicious for the villagers. They considered that Swamiji 
would be doing 
them a favour by taking the Lingam away. Having finally agreed to dig in the 
morning, 
Swamiji went to bed. The next morning they did manage to find the Shiva Lingam 
in that 
field. A big Cobra had wound round the Lingam. Despite the attempts by the 
villagers to 
make it move away, it did not budge from the site. The villagers sent for 
Swamiji to come 
and help. Swamiji came to the spot, stood at the top and looked at the cobra. 
The cobra 
unwound itself and hit its head against the Lingam and died on the spot. 
Swamiji arranged 
for the cremation of the snake and went back to the house. The villagers tried 
to unearth 
the lingam but they could not move it even by an inch. They sent for Swamiji 
again. 
Swamiji came and standing at the top of the site cried bitterly. While 
continuing to cry he 
sang the keertana "Ishapateesha Jagannivasa" He sang that keertana for the 
first time and 
it brought tears to the listeners. He went down and put his arms round it like 
someone 
holding on to a baby and lifted it. It came into his hands like a toy and he 
brought it out 
and placed it in the bullock cart arranged to take it back to the ashrama. All 
the villagers 
and the devotees moved with the cart towards the ashrama shouting the prai

[FairfieldLife] Re: HaHo9's reply....Turq's Carde's and Stutphen's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Why do you post these things to this newsgroup and
> > then not interact with anyone about them?
> 
> I'm not HH9, but I might venture an opinion.
> Often on this and other Internet discussion
> groups, "interact with" has become synonymous
> with "defend yourself."  And with reason.  It
> seems *expected* that if you post a few things
> that you feel are uplifting that someone will
> take offense or want you to explain further
> and "justify yourself" for posting them. Some-
> times all you feel like doing is making a 
> statement, passing along something that you
> find inspiring, with the faint hope that others
> might find it inspiring as well.  When someone
> goes out of his or her way to crap on your
> parade, it kinda takes the fun out of things.
> So I suspect that some people just post the
> things they find inspiring and allow them to
> stand on their own, and allow those who want
> to "discuss" them ad infinitum and drain all 
> the power from them to do so on their own.  
> 
> Just a guess, but an "informed" guess, having 
> been there, done that once or twice.
>

Greetings,

Turquoise has pretty much hit it on the head.
And to answer Cardemaister's and Dr. Pete's questions.

I learned the TM technique in Des Moines, Iowa in 1971. SCI Humbolt 1972. 
Became a 
teacher in Zinal, Suisse after 6 months of rounding in 1974. After another 6 
months of 
rounding in spring of 1976, I was called a Governor. (What a ruse)
I took what was called a Siddhis course in early '78. Went on to the Rhode 
Island Project 
that same summer with 7 buddies from Iowa. And while I was in the field 
bringing in the 
corn the morning of Oct. 13th that year, I got a call asking if I could be in 
NYC that night 
to go somewhere on the World Peace Project. (No time to throw it on the 
grinding stone) I 
did make it to NYC that night and found this body in Costa Rica just a couple 
of days later 
and then ended up in Nicaraugua under Martial Law. 
Moved to DC in spring of '83 and was a twice a day participant at the "Senate" 
"super-
radiance".  I attended what was called Utopia that winter. Was one of the first 
group of 
teachers to perpetuate "Unified Field Theory" in the Philippines in the summer 
of '84. 
I moved to Fairfield May of 1985 where I was committed to twice a day in those 
filthy 
domes for 12 years. Attended the Noida "Pioneers" course in 1988. (I didn't 
tell them I had 
taken the Sterling Men's Weekend or Ali Najafi's SET courses.) I towed the 
line, or so they 
thought, in order to get what I thought was "perfect knowledge".  Wonderful 
times and 
happy for the opportunities.

Then in 1996 I was given a cd called "Inner Healing" by Sri Ganapathi 
Sachchidananda 
Swamiji and a picture of Lord Dattatreya.
To make a long story short, the shifts that took place were beyond anything I'd 
ever 
dreamed, a beautiful wife, a beautifully magical place in the country, great 
friendships, 
and Sat Chit Ananda through this new music. I then gave it all up. Sold the 
farm, burned 
my badges, went on pilgrimages to Trinidad and India, and now live in Eugene, 
Oregon 
under the constant guidance of my Guru, to whom you may have become more 
familiar 
through this 18 day seva I have undertaken.

It shows that there are 1032 members in this group. I find that maybe there are 
maybe 
20-30 regular posters at best. What is that 2-3%? Granted many of the listed 
members 
may have lost interest and have not unsubscribed. It is evident that the 
regular 
participants here are dedicated to their stories and who am I to suggest 
otherwise?

Lord Dattatreya has been mostly unknown in USA. It is to those that may be 
listening in 
the wings of this group, who are maybe feeling disillusioned, as I once was 
about Guru 
and the lack of such, that I address these posts. I choose to post the wisdom 
of Sri 
Ganapathi Sachchidananda Swamiji, who gives good advice about guru and gaining 
SatyaLoka.  I don't presume to know anything but what He and the scriptures 
say. He is 
Ganapathi and Sat Chid Ananda.
If one soul finds some resonance with anything that has been posted by me and 
sees some 
light in this darkness then I say Jaya Guru Deva Datta. I am not posting these 
pearls to 
discuss their viability or validity. The source of this knowledge is 
indisputable. This 
statement may raise some neck hairs, but more knowledgeable souls than what 
occupy 
this group have attempted such and found themselves prostrated at His feet. If 
anyone has 
taken the time to read the excerpts from His life it is easier to understand. 

The significance of what I have said should be obvious in the following links:

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2000/mar4mor.html

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/festivals/shivaratri2000/audio_video.html

Not a hair singed. 

I am ju

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-face?
> 
> 
> > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > 
> > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
> > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru Dev 
> > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment of 
> > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar of 
> > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> >
>

In his dreams? 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > snip
> > > 
> > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
> > > transcending my intellect,  
> > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
> > > actions. Like a master-
> > >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
> > > ONLY in the 
> > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.
> > 
> > Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
> > surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
> > there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
> > that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
> > bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
> > absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
> 
> And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
> is a subjective feeling. 

A polite way of saying "mood making", perhaps? 

And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of ones own projections
of how the world (and gurus) should be? I mean if one thinks MMY or
whoever is "IT", "THE ONE", won't the mind almost automatically create
a sense of that experience when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
rare event / (always a) special occasion?

Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were around MMY constantly
experience him as "blazing brahman".

Could the need to experience a teacher as "blazing brahman" justify
the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at least in part as
trivial and silly projects of his?

Someone once said that the grandeur of the "described" experience
around the teacher is inversely proportional to ones proximity.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Read along with Tom

2005-12-14 Thread Patrick Gillam

I love this kind of thinking. It makes total sense. 
It's sorta my experience. It's what has drawn me 
into this pursuit of enlightenment. But there seem 
to be many cases where seemingly awakened 
people -- famous masters and participants in this 
forum -- don't behave as Dr. Deepak describes below.

If I'm drawing the wrong conclusion, please, 
someone who's realized the truth of what 
Chopra describes, correct me.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Pall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "The experience of the Self, or "self-referral," means that our internal 
> reference point is 
our own spirit, and not the object of our experience.  The opposite of 
self-referral is 
object-referral.  In object-referral we are always influenced by objects 
outside the Self, 
which include situations, circumstances, people, and things.  In 
object-referral we are 
constantly seeking the approval of others.  Our thinking and our behavior are 
always in 
anticipation of a response.  It is therefore fear-based.
> 
> In object-referral we also feel an intense need to control things.  We feel 
> an intense 
need for external power.  The need for approval, the need to control things, 
and the need 
for external power are needs that are based on fear.  This kind of power is not 
the power 
of pure potentiality, or the power of the Self, or /real/ power.  When we 
experience the 
power of the Self, there is an absence of fear, there is no compulsion to 
control, and no 
struggle for approval or external power.
> 
> In object-referral, your internal reference point is your ego.  The ego, 
> however, is not 
who you really are.  The ego is your self-image;  it is your social mask; it is 
the role you 
are playing.  Your social mask thrives on approval.   It wants to control, and 
it is sustained 
by power, because it lives in fear.
> 
> Your true Self, which is your spirit, your soul, is completely free of those 
> things.  It is 
immune to criticism, it is unfearful of any challenge, and it feels beneath no 
one.  And yet, 
it is also humble and feels superior to no one, because it recognizes that 
everyone else is 
the same Self, the same spirit in different disguises.
> 
> That's the essential difference between object-referral and self-referral. In 
> self-referral, 
you experience your true being, which is unfearful of any change, has respect 
for all 
people, and feels beneath no one.  Self-power is therefore true power.
> 
> Power based on object-referral, however, is false power.  Being ego-based 
> power, it 
lasts only as long as the object of reference is there.  If you have a certain 
title -- if you're 
the president of the country or the chairman of a corporation -- or if you have 
a lot of 
money, the power you enjoy goes with the title, with the job, with the money.  
Ego-based 
power will only last as long as those things last.  As soon as the title, the 
job, the money 
go way, so does the power.
> 
> Self-power, on the other hand, is permanent, because it is based on the 
> knowledge of 
the Self.  And there are certain characteristics of self-power.  It draws 
people to you, and it 
also draws things that you want to you.  It magnetizes people, situations, and 
circumstances to support your desires.  This is also called support from the 
laws of nature.  
It is the support of divinity;  it is the support that comes from being in the 
state of grace.  
Your power is such that you enjoy a bond with people, and people enjoy a bond 
with you.  
Your power is that of bonding -- a boding that comes from true love."
> 
> --Deepak Chropa, The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

2005-12-14 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > MMY's personality is very much a product of his
> > time
> > > and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
> > > "cosmic". Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
> > an
> > > aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
> > Hindu
> > > man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
> > fist
> > > for the past 50 years.
> > 
> > Boy, I think this is an important point.
> > 
> > Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
> > slightly differently and say, This is *how*
> > Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
> > this particular aging, slightly senile,
> > lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
> > run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
> > for the past 50 years?
> 
> Yes, better stated your way.
> 
> 
> > 
> > I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
> > *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
> > either of these two statements.
> > 
> > But people tend to look at the *expression*,
> > find it to be much less than what they think
> > of as "perfection" in a relative sense, and
> > on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
> > Brahman.
> 
> Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
> realized master, good luck! For example in a
> residential Art of Living course I took about a year
> ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
> casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
> ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
> wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
> about the difficulty in walking around and how much
> time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
> another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
> at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
> serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
> Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
> be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
> 
That's refreshing. It is rather funny after all. Especially for
Westerners.  That behavior is not really apart of our tradition.
The couple of times that I have seen him, the vib was very good and it
was interesting to see the birth and development of a major movement.
Deja-vu all over again ;-) 

JohnY


JohnY 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> jim_flanegin writes; snipped
> Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox, transcending my intellect,  
> and leaving me as the innocent witness to his actions. Like a master-/
>  disciple relationship only in the transcendent; ONLY in the 
> transcendent. Pure Paradox.  
> 
> Tom T responds:
> This is the value of Brahman. Only Brahman can hold those extreme
> values inside one human mind and live with that paradox. If you have
> any doubt left about the nature of Brahman see above and ponder on
> that for a while. This is the exposition and playing out of the
> Jaimini sutras. On the hand is the realtive loony toon character and
> on the other hand is the blazing brillance of pure Shiva, go try and
> figure it out and you can't. That is the definition of Brahman. 
> I once heard a 23 year old, FF born and raised, describe her
> enlightenment as "delightful confusion". Delightful because it was and
> confusion because the mind was never going to figure it out. Not now
> Not ever. Tom T

Snake-oil salesmen, religions, cults, tyrants and even democratically-
elected / appointed political leaders "like I can't explain it pretty
good why we kneaded to have done it, but like God told me to do it so
I done it, I invaded Iraq" revert to the same claim -- "just trust my
explanation even though I can't explain it rationally and you can
never understand it: its 'a magic elexir, 'a miracle', 'god's will',
'what our founding fathers said was good for us', 'the unspoken
mystery', 'the grand paradox'. 

How to differentiate I wonder? 

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[FairfieldLife] Good for the goose, good for the gander (was Re: Yagna By Choice Payback)