[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[azgrey]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:

> Rolfing is not (yet) approved.  On one of the BatGap interviews, a woman said 
> she gave and received a lot of energy work before and after unfoldment. And 
> cited Rolfing (thats different from Ralphing") as a method for huge release 
> of emotional (pain body) energy stored in ones muscles (and perhaps subtle 
> body parts associated with muscles.) I know Rolfing was popular among some TM 
> teachers in the early 70's. Anyone tried it recently? Effects?  


I was on the mend after tearing my left Achilles tendon
maybe 6/7 years back. My tendon had healed but I was 
not pleased with how the rest of my body had changed
in response to months and months of not walking the way 
my body was designed to walk.

Did a little research and found this guy just blocks from 
my house. He sure wasn't cheap. My Chinese acupuncturist
worked with him on lots of pro athletes. The photos of him are 
not very accurate as he is now much older. No blonde curly hair. 
He insists he could still grow it but his vows as a Zen priest and 
lineage holder of some variety forbids it. He invited me several
to sit with his group in Tempe. I explained that I had been there, 
done that, and had returned the t-shirt cuz I didn't like the fit. 
There is something about having somebody waiting to smack 
me with a stick that creeps me out. Theravadan practice better
suits my nature.   
 
http://www.jeffreymaitland.com/

Interesting guy. He helped me greatly. It is my understanding 
that there was a huge divisive split some years back in the 
Rolfing world over "the purity of the teachings." Basically, 
Jeff was part of the vanguard that insisted that the strict 12
and only 12 step program of Rolfing that MUST always be 
performed in exactly the same order could and should be
modified to individuals. In short, learn the principles and then
think for yourselves rather than blindly following the connect 
dots teachings. Part of the modernizing of the method was that
they found proper results could be fully achieved without the
terrible pain that was often associated with the technique.
Gentle Rolfing. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
wrote:
snip

I don't see what's so
> difficult about ignoring posts you find
> either boring or annoying or dishonest."


That's great.  Thanks for your reply.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[azgrey]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:24 PM, seventhray1 wrote:
> 
> > Thank you for the clarifications.  Return, or reply posts from Sal are 
> > definitely not her strong suit.  At least when some inconsistency is 
> > pointed out.
> 
> lurk, as you've observed before, that is true.
> Replies from me on almost any topic after
> I've said my piece are not my strong suit.
> As I've said before, I participate on FFL
> mainly for enjoyment, not to change any
> minds or even make any real point, except of 
> the most light-hearted kind.  If you feel
> like my lack of responses is some kind of
> a brush-off personally, I am sorry that 
> they have struck you that way~~if  they 
> have.  Nothing could be farther from the
> truth.  I generally enjoy your posts, and 
> really felt that your reply to my observation
> was very funny and needed nothing further.
> Altho on reflection I can see how my not
> saying so might have appeared in a negative
> light.  


Lurk, would you allow me to translate? It seems 
to be a tradition here on FFL. 

No matter how much of a silver tongued eloquent 
poster you are, you ain't gettin' in her knickers. If 
that was all it took, Shemp woulda made it ears
ago.   
 


> Anyway, we have visited this topic before, 
> a few weeks ago I believe, and
> so will repost my first response, which
> says pretty much all I can think of to say on it:
> "lurk, I come on FFL for one reason~~I find it 
> relaxing to share opinions and stories about
> something that was once a big part of most
> of our lives.  That's it.  I really don't come on
> to participate in fights or to put my posts 
> through some kind of litmus test each and
> every time I write one.  If someone finds
> them interesting and wants to respond,
> great.  If not, I don't see what's so 
> difficult about ignoring posts you find 
> either boring or annoying or dishonest."
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Eyes Wide Open Mantra Practice

[azgrey]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks for both the reply and the humor expressed.
> > Please excuse my tardiness. It is due to my habit of 
> > mostly scanning several days of FFL in message view 
> > and not following it contemporaneously.
> 
> "Several days"? This goes back almost a month.


Aww, don't be tryin' to go all Joan Crawford on me. I don't 
swing that way. Besides, what's a few extra days among 
friends? Y'all know ya miss me when I'm not around. 

 
> > Judy wrote: "He's projecting how *he* would feel
> > if he were in that position and assuming it must
> > apply to me as well."
> > 
> > You often point out things you consider to be Barry's 
> > projections. I wonder if you *really* feel it is true?
> 
> Seems the most likely origin, since (a) this one
> doesn't apply to me at all, and (b) many of the things
> he accuses me and others of doing that we don't do are
> things he does all the time.


Ok. I believe that is what you believe and feel in your heart. 
I would, however, point out that the "this one doesn't apply 
to me at all" part is an opinion that might not be universally
shared by others.

 
> > I also wonder if you have ever examined the possibility
> > that you ever engage in behaviors that you insist others
> > are guilty of, such as projection?
> 
> Oh, probably I do. But I make a big effort not to
> criticize folks for behavior I engage in. 


Effort does not always achieve the desired results. Clearly.


> Barry doesn't seem to make any effort in that direction
> at all.


No one, including Barry, says he does. He on occasion  
is very upfront in admitting he can be a dick. He is what he is
and you don't like him. We get it.


> > Judy wrote:  "But I'm not a control freak"
> > 
> > Okie dokie. One more thing. Did your HOA require 
> > construction of your soundproof bunker before or 
> > after insisting your cluster of cats be removed?
> 
> As I said, no pets are allowed in the condo complex
> where I live. Did you miss that?
> 
> Most cats I've ever had, back in NYC decades ago,
> was eight, and that was only until I could put the
> five of them that were kittens and their mother (who
> had wandered in off the street pregnant) up for
> adoption.
 

So you got evicted in Manhattan and forced to become 
one of the bridge people in Jersey because your neighbors
complained about the noise from your teeth grinding while
reading Barry's posts over and over when you are in the Bardo
under the edict of the Judy Overposting rule and your penchant for
encouraging feral cats to overbreed and the new HOA made
a preemptive strike by banning your glaring of cats and 
requiring you to live in a soundproof underground bunker.
Got it. That explain a lot. 
 
> Anything else you'd like to know about my history
> with cats?


No, thank you though. I think I have quite enough info already.
Vaj might want to follow up with some questions about which 
Shankaracharya you had the cats doing puja to. 
  


> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Boy, it sure didn't take long to get *that* started up
> > > > again this week. Do your neighbors complain about
> > > > the sound of teeth grinding while the 50 post
> > > > Judy Rule is in use and your outbursts are confined 
> > > > to the Bardo?
> > > 
> > > No, I've had a soundproofed booth built around my
> > > computer desk.
> > > 
> > > > Surely it scares the bejeezus out of the cats.
> > > 
> > > Don't have any, wish I did. No pets allowed in the
> > > condo complex where I live.
> > > 
> > > (You do know that the notion that I get antsy when I
> > > can't post is a fantasy of Barry's that he invented
> > > years ago, right? He's projecting how *he* would feel
> > > if he were in that position and assuming it must
> > > apply to me as well. But I'm not a control freak, so
> > > it doesn't bother me. I'd much rather post when I'm
> > > moved to do so until I run out, then just wait until
> > > the next posting period.)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002386/
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Better get some ointment for that itchy trigger
> > > > > finger before you shoot yourself in the foot again.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[Sal Sunshine]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:24 PM, seventhray1 wrote:

> Thank you for the clarifications.  Return, or reply posts from Sal are 
> definitely not her strong suit.  At least when some inconsistency is pointed 
> out.

lurk, as you've observed before, that is true.
Replies from me on almost any topic after
I've said my piece are not my strong suit.
As I've said before, I participate on FFL
mainly for enjoyment, not to change any
minds or even make any real point, except of 
the most light-hearted kind.  If you feel
like my lack of responses is some kind of
a brush-off personally, I am sorry that 
they have struck you that way~~if  they 
have.  Nothing could be farther from the
truth.  I generally enjoy your posts, and 
really felt that your reply to my observation
was very funny and needed nothing further.
Altho on reflection I can see how my not
saying so might have appeared in a negative
light.  

Anyway, we have visited this topic before, 
a few weeks ago I believe, and
so will repost my first response, which
says pretty much all I can think of to say on it:
"lurk, I come on FFL for one reason~~I find it 
relaxing to share opinions and stories about
something that was once a big part of most
of our lives.  That's it.  I really don't come on
to participate in fights or to put my posts 
through some kind of litmus test each and
every time I write one.  If someone finds
them interesting and wants to respond,
great.  If not, I don't see what's so 
difficult about ignoring posts you find 
either boring or annoying or dishonest."

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

>
> >
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, 
> > > > > > > > thinking has to
> > > > > > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > > > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > > > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are 
> > > > > > > > truthful in our
> > > > > > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be 
> > > > > > > > pleasing, soft,
> > > > > > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies 
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and 
> > > > > > > > kindness of
> > > > > > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. 
> > > > > > > > ... Blessed
> > > > > > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If X then Y.
> > > > > > > If not X then not Y.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If harmonious, then... 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Well yes, 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If inharmonious, then...
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> > > > > 
> > > > > The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Let us be together
> > > > > Let us eat together
> > > > > Let us be vital together
> > > > > Let us be Radiating Truth
> > > > > Let us Be radiating the light of life
> > > > > Never shall we denounce anyone
> > > > > Never entertain negativity."
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > >Saha Nav Avatu
> > 
> 
Saha Nav Bhunaktu

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking 
> > > > > > > has to
> > > > > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful 
> > > > > > > in our
> > > > > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, 
> > > > > > > soft,
> > > > > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and 
> > > > > > > kindness of
> > > > > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... 
> > > > > > > Blessed
> > > > > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If X then Y.
> > > > > > If not X then not Y.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If harmonious, then... 
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well yes, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > If inharmonious, then...
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> > > > 
> > > > The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> > > > 
> > > > "Let us be together
> > > > Let us eat together
> > > > Let us be vital together
> > > > Let us be Radiating Truth
> > > > Let us Be radiating the light of life
> > > > Never shall we denounce anyone
> > > > Never entertain negativity."
> > > >
> > > 
> >Saha Nav Avatu
> 
Saha Nav

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

>
> 
> 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking 
> > > > > > has to
> > > > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in 
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, 
> > > > > > soft,
> > > > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and 
> > > > > > kindness of
> > > > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... 
> > > > > > Blessed
> > > > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If X then Y.
> > > > > If not X then not Y.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If harmonious, then... 
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Well yes, 
> > > > 
> > > > If inharmonious, then...
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> > > 
> > > The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> > > 
> > > "Let us be together
> > > Let us eat together
> > > Let us be vital together
> > > Let us be Radiating Truth
> > > Let us Be radiating the light of life
> > > Never shall we denounce anyone
> > > Never entertain negativity."
> > >
> > 
>Saha Nav Avatu
Saha

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

>
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has 
> > > > > to
> > > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in 
> > > > > our
> > > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness 
> > > > > of
> > > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... 
> > > > > Blessed
> > > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > > 
> > > > If X then Y.
> > > > If not X then not Y.
> > > > 
> > > > If harmonious, then... 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Well yes, 
> > > 
> > > If inharmonious, then...
> > >
> > 
> > Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> > 
> > The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> > 
> > "Let us be together
> > Let us eat together
> > Let us be vital together
> > Let us be Radiating Truth
> > Let us Be radiating the light of life
> > Never shall we denounce anyone
> > Never entertain negativity."
> >
> 
Saha Nav

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

> 
> 
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > 
> > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has to
> > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in our
> > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness of
> > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... Blessed
> > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > 
> > > If X then Y.
> > > If not X then not Y.
> > > 
> > > If harmonious, then... 
> > >
> > 
> > Well yes, 
> > 
> > If inharmonious, then...
> >
> 
> Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> 
> The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> 
> "Let us be together
> Let us eat together
> Let us be vital together
> Let us be Radiating Truth
> Let us Be radiating the light of life
> Never shall we denounce anyone
> Never entertain negativity."
>
Saha

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> 
>   In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote:
> > He was quite pleasant and accurate in his response to me,
> > not so with you. Almost like it's personal. Oh well. My
> > observation is Lurk doesn't stay mad for long but he does
> > seem to carry a grudge. I could be wrong.
> 
> Yea, I know.  He does need to proofread more.  Almost that he writes
> just how he thinks.  Oh there he goes again with a non declarative
> sentence.  Gosh, I wish he's learn not to do those.  As for holding a
> grudge, I'm not sure.  You're right that he doesn't seem to stay mad
> long.  But the holding a grudge thing.  Not sure.  Boy he sure has not
> progressed far in writing a coherant paragragh.  But I did like that
> portrayal of writing like he was having a seizure.  That was a good one.
> (-:
>
Just for the record, this reply is supposed to be a light hearted jab at myself 
(in case anyone cares, which I doubt they do).  Az, I was touched, (as I always 
am) when someone takes the care to make a criticism or suggestion wrapped in a 
nice expression, like you did.  I always respect that, and certainly it sets 
the stage for cordial dialog.  BTW & FWIW, I have been observing the grammer in 
your posts (Az), and it appears impeccible. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Curtis,
> > 
> > 
> > To spread misinformation as well as good information.  As social creatures 
> > we are inordinately swayed in our beliefs by this.
> > 
> >  > credentialed disciplines that deal with the subtle energies and might
> > be helpful to meditators having troubles with their subtle systems.
> > These disciplines certainly are about the subtle system and are progressed 
> > from
> > faith-healing to the point where they are offered in hospitals, get doctor's
> > referral and some insurance coverage now.>
> > 
> > 
> > Interesting point about the growth of science.  How do we  test new ideas 
> > and sort them out from ideas that are bad ones.  Not a clean process.
> > 
> > 
> >  > It seems chakras are coming. Trivedi and John Douglas are both
> > getting themselves studied to the end of showing people
> > like you who are poor in experience with it and slow to accept that there 
> > is a
> > reality there which other people do experience.>
> > 
> > Are you aware that people can believe they are experiencing things that are 
> > in fact imagined?  Do you take all faith healers at face value?  If you 
> > don't buy someone's claim do you believe you are just "poor in experience"? 
> >  You are making these evaluations just as I am Doug.  You are deciding that 
> > some ideas are better or more substantiated than others.  We may just be 
> > coming from a different standard of what we leave in or what we take out.  
> > The kind of experience you are talking about is highly overrated IMO.
> > 
> > 
> >  > People certainly are using chakra energy work with good result.
> > There is a reality to that. Word-of-mouth as, "subtle energy work" makes 
> > for a
> > consumer's report until there is accreditation.>
> > 
> > Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated to its 
> > psycological sway over its epistemological validity.  Big problem in 
> > advancing our knowledge.  We suck at evaluating claims and tend to 
> > overestimate our ability to do so.  It is as big a problem for me as it is 
> > for you.
> > 
> > 
> >  > http://www.timeportalpubs.com/about.htm gave a presentation on chakras. A
> > brain researcher there measured and collected her while she did her energy 
> > work
> > and it pegged the meters. Academically this is the work this guy is doing ,
> > measuring 'healers'. Evidently there is a reality there by experience. 
> > Science
> > is catching up. Credentials likely will come in time.>
> > 
> > Why give any value to the process of science if you are not going to 
> > actually evaluate claims in light of the most obvious principles?  You seem 
> > content to use it if it appears to support a belief, but unwilling to use 
> > it if it reveals your actual lack of support of beliefs.
> > 
> > "dents in the energetic bodies"  I'm gunna leave it at that.
> > 
> > 
> > < MUM does
> > not have to endorse them. People can certainly check them out. However, by
> > experience it could be very useful to some meditators. An affliction with
> > meditators can be that while their mental fields are opened they are not
> > necessarily open or connected at all in their body energy fields. It makes 
> > for
> > a tough dis-integrated receptacle to have spiritual experience in generally.
> > There's a reality to that.>

MUM is a lot about meditating.  Evidently beyond checking meditations they 
could stand to be helpful otherwise too. 

> > 
> > Not by just asserting it as true as you are doing.  I get the appeal of 
> > anecdotal evidence within a small community.  I am subject to this 
> > influence too.  We need to study how it impedes our quest for truth if we 
> > are sincere.  We need to be ready to be wrong a lot about things that FEEL 
> > sooo right. 
> > 
> > 
> >  > and
> > have a lot of experience with it in the different ways it manifests.>
> > 
> > 
> > We are obviously working from a different choice of proof systems.  While 
> > you view me as "poor in experience" I view you as using science as a 
> > convenience to add credibility to claims without really respecting its 
> > methods.  Fair enough at least we are chatting about those differences.
> >
> 
> Curtis, that's nice.  Actually there are folks in life here who have
> apprenticed and done long time of experience in this very work.
> It's not just the maha-saints and healers coming around like
> Mother Meera, Ammachi, Karunamayi, John Douglas, Trivedi, others coming 
> through and such.
> In arguing against it, could you let your own (limited) epistemology hang 
> other people up
> from the experience of getting help with their own spiritual experience?
> Would there be a time to cowboy up yourself if you'd be open to it (?). May 
> be even leave your personal epistemologic strictures to experience more 
> d

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[seventhray1]

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
> >
> > To hell with what folks were able or not able to do 20,000 years
ago. I'm interested in knowing why the first 180,000 years of human
existence didn't produce agriculture. There's your salient point of
history -- when hunter gatherers got out voted by the farmers and the
village stayed in one place from then on.
> >
> > I wonder what their "Ed Schultz" had to say about the transition,
eh?


I'd like to know what Ed Duveyoung has to say about it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> Needless to say, there was no response from Sal, either
> to Steve's query or to mine.


Thank you for the clarifications.  Return, or reply posts from Sal are
definitely not her strong suit.  At least when some inconsistency is
pointed out.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Curtis,
> 
> 
> To spread misinformation as well as good information.  As social creatures we 
> are inordinately swayed in our beliefs by this.
> 
>  credentialed disciplines that deal with the subtle energies and might
> be helpful to meditators having troubles with their subtle systems.
> These disciplines certainly are about the subtle system and are progressed 
> from
> faith-healing to the point where they are offered in hospitals, get doctor's
> referral and some insurance coverage now.>
> 
> 
> Interesting point about the growth of science.  How do we  test new ideas and 
> sort them out from ideas that are bad ones.  Not a clean process.
> 
> 
>  It seems chakras are coming. Trivedi and John Douglas are both
> getting themselves studied to the end of showing people
> like you who are poor in experience with it and slow to accept that there is a
> reality there which other people do experience.>
> 
> Are you aware that people can believe they are experiencing things that are 
> in fact imagined?  Do you take all faith healers at face value?  If you don't 
> buy someone's claim do you believe you are just "poor in experience"?  You 
> are making these evaluations just as I am Doug.  You are deciding that some 
> ideas are better or more substantiated than others.  We may just be coming 
> from a different standard of what we leave in or what we take out.  The kind 
> of experience you are talking about is highly overrated IMO.
> 
> 
>  People certainly are using chakra energy work with good result.
> There is a reality to that. Word-of-mouth as, "subtle energy work" makes for a
> consumer's report until there is accreditation.>
> 
> Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated to its psycological 
> sway over its epistemological validity.  Big problem in advancing our 
> knowledge.  We suck at evaluating claims and tend to overestimate our ability 
> to do so.  It is as big a problem for me as it is for you.
> 
> 
>  http://www.timeportalpubs.com/about.htm gave a presentation on chakras. A
> brain researcher there measured and collected her while she did her energy 
> work
> and it pegged the meters. Academically this is the work this guy is doing ,
> measuring 'healers'. Evidently there is a reality there by experience. Science
> is catching up. Credentials likely will come in time.>
> 
> Why give any value to the process of science if you are not going to actually 
> evaluate claims in light of the most obvious principles?  You seem content to 
> use it if it appears to support a belief, but unwilling to use it if it 
> reveals your actual lack of support of beliefs.
> 
> "dents in the energetic bodies"  I'm gunna leave it at that.
> 
> 
> < MUM does
> not have to endorse them. People can certainly check them out. However, by
> experience it could be very useful to some meditators. An affliction with
> meditators can be that while their mental fields are opened they are not
> necessarily open or connected at all in their body energy fields. It makes for
> a tough dis-integrated receptacle to have spiritual experience in generally.
> There's a reality to that.>
> 
> Not by just asserting it as true as you are doing.  I get the appeal of 
> anecdotal evidence within a small community.  I am subject to this influence 
> too.  We need to study how it impedes our quest for truth if we are sincere.  
> We need to be ready to be wrong a lot about things that FEEL sooo right. 
> 
> 
>  have a lot of experience with it in the different ways it manifests.>
> 
> 
> We are obviously working from a different choice of proof systems.  While you 
> view me as "poor in experience" I view you as using science as a convenience 
> to add credibility to claims without really respecting its methods.  Fair 
> enough at least we are chatting about those differences.
>

Curtis, that's nice.  Actually there are folks in life here who have
apprenticed and done long time of experience in this very work.
It's not just the maha-saints and healers coming around like
Mother Meera, Ammachi, Karunamayi, John Douglas, Trivedi, others coming through 
and such.
In arguing against it, could you let your own (limited) epistemology hang other 
people up
from the experience of getting help with their own spiritual experience?
Would there be a time to cowboy up yourself if you'd be open to it (?). May be 
even leave your personal epistemologic strictures to experience more 
differently? On the recommendation, of a friend?

Anecdotal-ly,

Janet Sussman is one who was here in Fairfield quietly doing her work
in the meditating community for decades.  She has recently move to be
nearer her family. She had quite a practice satsang during the years she lived 
here. It was way spiritual this way in experience.  Rick interviewed her more 
recently on batgap.com 

Her own web page is: http://www.time

Re: [FairfieldLife] Afghan Riots over Quran-burning

[Bhairitu]

On 04/02/2011 03:39 PM, John wrote:
> Here we go again.  The US should get out of there now.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110402/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Oh no, John, any number of deaths are permitted so the oil barons can 
have and control their highly valued pipeline.  Isn't that what life is 
about: money and oil?

If left alone the Afghanis would have eventually figured out they could 
make money themselves building a pipeline and leasing access.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint

[authfriend]

With all the utterly absurd, factually challenged
things right-wingers have been saying lately with
a completely straight face, to make a huge to-do
about Huckabee having made what was obviously a
dumb joke is worse than useless. A much better use
of outrage, time, and effort would be to urge the
media to publicize the nitwit stuff he says with
the utmost seriousness.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint 
> -AlterNet
> 
> Did Mike Huckabee just flush his presidential aspirations down the proverbial 
> toilet? Well, if American mainstream media has an ounce of journalistic 
> gumption remaining the answer most certainly would be "yes". Huckabee has 
> just been caught on video, at a Christian supremacist conference, stating 
> that Americans should be forcibly indoctrinated at gunpoint. The organization 
> which hosted the "Rediscover God In America" conference, United in Purpose, 
> has edited Huckabee's comment from footage of his speech, but not before 
> People For The American Way's Kyle Mantyla captured the unedited footage, in 
> which Mike Huckabee states, "I almost wish that there would be, like, a 
> simultaneous telecast, and all Americans would be forced–forced at gunpoint 
> no less–to listen to every David Barton message, and I think our country 
> would be better for it. I wish it'd happen."
> 
> David Barton is the leading promoter of a brand of falsified American history 
> altered to support the claim that America was founded as a Christian, rather 
> than a secular, nation. As Chris Rodda, who has authored an entire book 
> debunking Barton's brand of pseudo-history, writes,
> 
> I was quite surprised… to come across a video clip from this conference on 
> the People for the American Way (PFAW) Right Wing Watch blog with the 
> headline "Huckabee: Americans Should Be Forced, At Gunpoint, To Learn From 
> David Barton." I had watched Huckabee's speech. How on earth could I have 
> missed a statement like that? Well, I didn't. It had been edited out of the 
> webcast that I had watched.
> 
> Kyle Mantyla over at PFAW's Right Wing Watch had recorded Huckabee's speech 
> when it was streamed live on Thursday, and posted the `forced at gunpoint' 
> clip on Friday. By Saturday, when I watched the webcast on the United in 
> Purpose website, that part of Huckabee's speech had been edited out.
> 
> The webcast that I saw showed Barton leaving the stage as he ended his 
> presentation, then the screen going black for a moment, and then what 
> appeared to be the beginning of Huckabee's speech. What was edited out was 
> Barton returning to the stage to introduce Huckabee, and the first two 
> minutes and forty-five seconds of Huckabee's speech, during which Huckabee 
> made his `gunpoint' comment and praised David Lane, the man behind all of the 
> American "Renewal" and "Restoration" projects that have popped up across the 
> country during the past few elections.
> 
> [below: the unedited footage from Huckabee's speech, with the "joke" about 
> indoctrinating Americans at gunpoint to be found at at 1:06. Footage courtesy 
> of Kyle Mantyla of Rightwing Watch, who might have almost single-handedly 
> consigned Huckabee's presidential hopes to the dustbin of history.]
> 
>  
> I should also note that what Chris Rodda has to say about this has especial 
> weight given that she's arguably been the most indefatigable author to 
> challenge David Barton's sprawling falsified American history oeuvre, as a 
> Talk To Action site search on Rodda's extensive posts debunking Barton would 
> suggest. Chris Rodda is author of the book Liars For Jesus: The Religious 
> Right's Alternate Version of American History which prominently features 
> David Barton, head ofWallbuilders and arguably king of the "liars for Jesus". 
> Rodda is also Head Researcher for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.
> 
> George Erickson 
> www.tundracub.com
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[John]

Edg,

Some people say that humans have existed for much longer time than what you 
estimate.  They have found archeological evidence to prove this.  But 
mainstream archeologists do not accept such a drastic departure from the 
current theory.

JR

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> To hell with what folks were able or not able to do 20,000 years ago.  I'm 
> interested in knowing why the first 180,000 years of human existence didn't 
> produce agriculture.  There's your salient point of history -- when hunter 
> gatherers got out voted by the farmers and the village stayed in one place 
> from then on.  
> 
> I wonder what their "Ed Schultz" had to say about the transition, eh?
> 
> Edg
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Judy,
> > > 
> > > Here's a video clip that talks about the ruins in Tihuanaco,
> > > estimated to be as old as 17,000, and Pumapunko, may be
> > > older than the former.  These ruins are in Bolivia.
> > > 
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMviviXAIVI
> > 
> > Oh, gee, John, this is "ancient astronaut"
> > nonsense. I don't know how they came up with that
> > dating. Mainstream archeologists say these sites
> > have been carbon-dated to 500-600 A.D.
> > 
> > History Channel has been into this weird stuff for
> > quite some time now; it's kind of a shame.
> > 
> > And Bolivia is in South America too. ;-)
> > 
> > Tangentially--folks tend to get all excited about 
> > ancient elaborate constructions and sophisticated
> > art because they don't understand how they could
> > have been accomplished by "primitive" peoples and
> > insist they must have had "outside" assistance.
> > 
> > I think this is a crock, frankly. These people were
> > just as ingenious and intelligent and creative as we
> > are, and if they wanted to get something done, they
> > could figure out ways to do it even without modern
> > technology. That we don't know how they did it does
> > not automatically mean they couldn't have done it!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an interesting article.  But there's a building
> > > > > site with sophisticated stonework in Peru that may be
> > > > > older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need to
> > > > > factor this fact into their academic theories.
> > > > 
> > > > If you know about it, John, I suspect they do too,
> > > > and have already factored it in. (Do you remember the
> > > > name of this place? Because while there are 20,000-
> > > > year-old sites in Peru, they're coastal hunter-
> > > > gatherer sites with no sophisticated stonework. I'd 
> > > > be interested to know what you're thinking of.)
> > > > 
> > > > The Buttermilk Creek site is said to be the oldest
> > > > in *North* America. Last I heard, Peru was in *South*
> > > > America.
> > > > 
> > > > But speaking of cave paintings rather than spear
> > > > points or stonework, there was a really fabulous
> > > > article in Slate recently, excerpted from Paris
> > > > Review, well worth a read (no photos, sadly):
> > > > 
> > > > America's Ancient Cave Art
> > > > Deep in the Cumberland Plateau, mysterious drawings,
> > > > thousands of years old, offer a glimpse of lost Native
> > > > American cultures and traditions
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2288619/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> > > > > > issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> > > > > > hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> > > > > > and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> > > > > > tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> > > > > > as 15,500 years ago..."
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Read more:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> > > > > > Arrival of Humans in America'
> > > > > > New York Times, March 24, 2011
> > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shanti2218411"  wrote:

> It seems to me mental health professionals who use forms of 
> therapy such as "chakra therapy" have an ethical and professional
> obligation to identify a clear theoretical framework and a body
> of evidence to support using it.Lacking the latter, they would at
> least have the obligation to explain to their clients that the 
> therapy they are using does not have research support and is not
> based on well established psychological models.

I'd be in favor of that. It would apply to a whole host
of different therapies, though. It might also be good
to point out to the client that even the most mainstream
therapies were first used in the absence of a clear
theoretical framework or body of supportive evidence.
You have to start somewhere, in other words.

As an aside while
> I have had experiences which supported the impression that
> "chakras" exist,I don't think a subtle energy model would make 
> much sense to most people.I do think this might be a good model
> for people who already subscribe to a worldview that includes the
> notion of subtle energy or chakras.

I'd guess this is usually the case, that people who
go in for chakra therapy have some knowledge of it
and have found it appealing.


I think the latter is the case 
>since helping people to understand why the are anxious very often
>helps to make them less anxious.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[authfriend]

OK, I'm going to put my two cents in here.

Steve, I almost never have any trouble understanding
what you're saying. The occasional typo--and we all
make 'em--is easy enough to correct mentally as one
reads, and your grammar is usually just fine.

In the current post in question, you made a single
one-letter typo, "h" for "g" (adjacent on the keyboard),
that for some reason threw Sal and az into a tizzy.
The paragraph was composed of three perfectly
grammatical sentences plus three incomplete sentences.
The latter were obviously for effect and should not
have been a source of confusion. Pro writers use this
device quite deliberately from time to time and nobody
objects.

Now, as to Sal's comment:

> > > > The last time
> > > > I made some remark in this vein to lurk
> > > > I got tarred with basically just that label.

No, Sal did not get "tarred" with the "grammar
police" label or anything like it. After making this
nasty comment--

"With all due respect, lurk, do you *ever*
proof-read before you hit the Send button? At least
3 or 4 of your sentences above make no sense the
way you've written them."

--she received an exceptionally polite response from
Steve begging her to show him his mistakes.

She also received an entirely neutral response from me:

"Actually, all his sentences make perfect sense, except
for one typo, 'use' for 'lose' in the sixth sentence of
the quote above. Which sentences did you have trouble
understanding?"

Needless to say, there was no response from Sal, either
to Steve's query or to mine.

For reference, Steve's post on that occasion was #268422.
(Note the extremely unpleasant post of Barry's he was
responding to.)


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> Az, I was making a joke!  Sorry it wasn't perceived that way.  I thought
> it might be misconstrued.  But it was supposed to be light hearted. 
> There I go again, thinking that people can read my mind.  That gets me
> into trouble sometimes.  My apologies to anyone I may have offended.
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> >
> > Harsh Lurk, very harsh. My intention was neither to demean you
> > nor to copulate. I find Sal's observation as to her own experience
> > to be accurate. Grammar police are a drag. We all mistype. What
> > I was pointing out was that I knew you had something to say but
> > I couldn't make hide nor hair of what it was.
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" steve.sundur@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sal, If I'm going to get fucked, I at least want a kiss. At least Az
> offered a kiss. You did not, and that is the difference. Kapish?
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:40 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> hat is really neat, duff (dug from fairfield). But I hope you
> have him
> > > > >> the appropiate FF honors. Starting with a standing O when he
> walks into
> > > > >> a room, or is introduced. Hanging on his every word. Maybe
> offering
> > > > >> some flowers. I hope you done the community proud.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I loves ya Lurk. You know I truly do from the
> > > > > bottom of my heart, but, are you even capable
> > > > > of writing a grammatically correct declarative
> > > > > sentence? Christalmightyman!! Grammar police
> > > > > I'm not, but sometimes while reading your posts
> > > > > I think I'm reading something written by someone
> > > > > having a seizure.
> > > >
> > > > Uh, oh...get ready, az. :) The last time
> > > > I made some remark in this vein to lurk
> > > > I got tarred with basically just that label.
> > > >
> > > > Sal
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Apr 02 00:00:00 2011
End Date (UTC): Sat Apr 09 00:00:00 2011
107 messages as of (UTC) Sat Apr 02 23:17:10 2011

16 tartbrain 
15 Vaj 
10 turquoiseb 
10 authfriend 
 7 curtisdeltablues 
 6 seventhray1 
 6 Ravi Yogi 
 5 nablusoss1008 
 5 Yifu 
 4 azgrey 
 3 WillyTex 
 3 Bhairitu 
 2 emptybill 
 2 cardemaister 
 2 PaliGap 
 2 John 
 1 shanti2218411 
 1 Tom Pall 
 1 Sal Sunshine 
 1 Robert 
 1 Rick Archer 
 1 Peter 
 1 Mike Dixon 
 1 Duveyoung 
 1 Buck 

Posters: 25
Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
=
Daylight Saving Time (Summer):
US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM
Standard Time (Winter):
US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM
Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[seventhray1]

Az, I was making a joke!  Sorry it wasn't perceived that way.  I thought
it might be misconstrued.  But it was supposed to be light hearted. 
There I go again, thinking that people can read my mind.  That gets me
into trouble sometimes.  My apologies to anyone I may have offended.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
>
> Harsh Lurk, very harsh. My intention was neither to demean you
> nor to copulate. I find Sal's observation as to her own experience
> to be accurate. Grammar police are a drag. We all mistype. What
> I was pointing out was that I knew you had something to say but
> I couldn't make hide nor hair of what it was.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" steve.sundur@
wrote:
> >
> > Sal, If I'm going to get fucked, I at least want a kiss. At least Az
offered a kiss. You did not, and that is the difference. Kapish?
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:40 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> hat is really neat, duff (dug from fairfield). But I hope you
have him
> > > >> the appropiate FF honors. Starting with a standing O when he
walks into
> > > >> a room, or is introduced. Hanging on his every word. Maybe
offering
> > > >> some flowers. I hope you done the community proud.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I loves ya Lurk. You know I truly do from the
> > > > bottom of my heart, but, are you even capable
> > > > of writing a grammatically correct declarative
> > > > sentence? Christalmightyman!! Grammar police
> > > > I'm not, but sometimes while reading your posts
> > > > I think I'm reading something written by someone
> > > > having a seizure.
> > >
> > > Uh, oh...get ready, az. :) The last time
> > > I made some remark in this vein to lurk
> > > I got tarred with basically just that label.
> > >
> > > Sal
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[seventhray1]

In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:

  In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote:
> He was quite pleasant and accurate in his response to me,
> not so with you. Almost like it's personal. Oh well. My
> observation is Lurk doesn't stay mad for long but he does
> seem to carry a grudge. I could be wrong.

Yea, I know.  He does need to proofread more.  Almost that he writes
just how he thinks.  Oh there he goes again with a non declarative
sentence.  Gosh, I wish he's learn not to do those.  As for holding a
grudge, I'm not sure.  You're right that he doesn't seem to stay mad
long.  But the holding a grudge thing.  Not sure.  Boy he sure has not
progressed far in writing a coherant paragragh.  But I did like that
portrayal of writing like he was having a seizure.  That was a good one.
(-:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Alaatashaanti-prakarana

[emptybill]

Oops ... that is eternally without relations (at the end of the
sentence).



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill"  wrote:
>
>
> As in a dream the mind vibrates, as though having dual aspects, so in
> the waking state the mind the mind vibrates (spandate) as though with
> two facets.
>
>
>
> There is no doubt that in dreams, the mind though one, appears in dual
> aspects; so also in the waking state, the mind, though one appears to
> have two aspects (cognizer and cognized).
>
>
>
> All this that there is – together with all that moves or does not
> move – is perceived by the mind; for when the mind ceases to be
> mind, duality is no longer perceived.
>
>
>
> When Consciousness is in vibration, appearances do not come to it from
> anywhere else. Neither do they go anywhere else from consciousness
when
> It is at rest, nor do they enter into it.
>
>
>
> They did not issue out Consciousness, by reason of their
> insubstantiality; for they are ever beyond comprehension, being
without
> relation of cause and effect.
>
>
>
> This duality, possessed of subject and object, is a vibration
> (cittaspanditam eva) of Consciousness indeed . Consciousness is
> objectless; hence it is declared to be eternally with relations.
>
>
>
> G
>
>
>
> *
>

[FairfieldLife] Alaatashaanti-prakarana

[emptybill]

As in a dream the mind vibrates, as though having dual aspects, so in
the waking state the mind the mind vibrates (spandate) as though with
two facets.



There is no doubt that in dreams, the mind though one, appears in dual
aspects; so also in the waking state, the mind, though one appears to
have two aspects (cognizer and cognized).



All this that there is – together with all that moves or does not
move – is perceived by the mind; for when the mind ceases to be
mind, duality is no longer perceived.



When Consciousness is in vibration, appearances do not come to it from
anywhere else. Neither do they go anywhere else from consciousness when
It is at rest, nor do they enter into it.



They did not issue out Consciousness, by reason of their
insubstantiality; for they are ever beyond comprehension, being without
relation of cause and effect.



This duality, possessed of subject and object, is a vibration
(cittaspanditam eva) of Consciousness indeed . Consciousness is
objectless; hence it is declared to be eternally with relations.



G



*

[FairfieldLife] Afghan Riots over Quran-burning

[John]

Here we go again.  The US should get out of there now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110402/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

Re: [FairfieldLife] Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint

[Bhairitu]

That would be messy because we would have to call in a "cleaner" to 
clean up the remains the right nut with a gun we shot with our own gun 
if they want to try such a thing.

On 04/02/2011 02:25 PM, Vaj wrote:
> Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint 
> -AlterNet
>
> Did Mike Huckabee just flush his presidential aspirations down the proverbial 
> toilet? Well, if American mainstream media has an ounce of journalistic 
> gumption remaining the answer most certainly would be “yes”. Huckabee has 
> just been caught on video, at a Christian supremacist conference, stating 
> that Americans should be forcibly indoctrinated at gunpoint. The organization 
> which hosted the “Rediscover God In America” conference, United in Purpose, 
> has edited Huckabee’s comment from footage of his speech, but not before 
> People For The American Way’s Kyle Mantyla captured the unedited footage, in 
> which Mike Huckabee states, “I almost wish that there would be, like, a 
> simultaneous telecast, and all Americans would be forced–forced at gunpoint 
> no less–to listen to every David Barton message, and I think our country 
> would be better for it. I wish it’d happen.”
>
> David Barton is the leading promoter of a brand of falsified American history 
> altered to support the claim that America was founded as a Christian, rather 
> than a secular, nation. As Chris Rodda, who has authored an entire book 
> debunking Barton’s brand of pseudo-history, writes,
>
> I was quite surprised… to come across a video clip from this conference on 
> the People for the American Way (PFAW) Right Wing Watch blog with the 
> headline “Huckabee: Americans Should Be Forced, At Gunpoint, To Learn From 
> David Barton.” I had watched Huckabee’s speech. How on earth could I have 
> missed a statement like that? Well, I didn’t. It had been edited out of the 
> webcast that I had watched.
>
> Kyle Mantyla over at PFAW’s Right Wing Watch had recorded Huckabee’s speech 
> when it was streamed live on Thursday, and posted the ‘forced at gunpoint’ 
> clip on Friday. By Saturday, when I watched the webcast on the United in 
> Purpose website, that part of Huckabee’s speech had been edited out.
>
> The webcast that I saw showed Barton leaving the stage as he ended his 
> presentation, then the screen going black for a moment, and then what 
> appeared to be the beginning of Huckabee’s speech. What was edited out was 
> Barton returning to the stage to introduce Huckabee, and the first two 
> minutes and forty-five seconds of Huckabee’s speech, during which Huckabee 
> made his ‘gunpoint’ comment and praised David Lane, the man behind all of the 
> American “Renewal” and “Restoration” projects that have popped up across the 
> country during the past few elections.
>
> [below: the unedited footage from Huckabee's speech, with the "joke" about 
> indoctrinating Americans at gunpoint to be found at at 1:06. Footage courtesy 
> of Kyle Mantyla of Rightwing Watch, who might have almost single-handedly 
> consigned Huckabee's presidential hopes to the dustbin of history.]
>
>
> I should also note that what Chris Rodda has to say about this has especial 
> weight given that she’s arguably been the most indefatigable author to 
> challenge David Barton’s sprawling falsified American history oeuvre, as a 
> Talk To Action site search on Rodda’s extensive posts debunking Barton would 
> suggest. Chris Rodda is author of the book Liars For Jesus: The Religious 
> Right’s Alternate Version of American History which prominently features 
> David Barton, head ofWallbuilders and arguably king of the “liars for Jesus”. 
> Rodda is also Head Researcher for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.
>
> George Erickson
> www.tundracub.com





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Growing inflation shrinking food packages

[Bhairitu]

Who prints up money?  What about the Fed, Dixon?  Did you mean "wheel 
barrow" or did you "borrow"?  How about reducing the deficit by stopping 
the wars?

Now when is it you're going to become a billionaire?  What did the Koch 
brothers tell you?


On 04/02/2011 02:46 PM, Mike Dixon wrote:
> But then they don't have inflation in socialist countries, especially when 
> they
> barrow and print up money,do they?
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Bhairitu
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:08:29 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Growing inflation shrinking food packages
>
>   
> Last night I walked by the beverage section of the local supermarket I
> noticed cute little pop cans. My how they have shrunk! Seems that in
> order to fool the public they are just packing food stuff and junk foods
> in smaller packages or even the same size package but more air. Corn
> chips which used to sell for $2 a pound are now $2 for 12 ounces. Even
> Starbucks has jumped into the act with their mini-snacks which look
> like lollipops. Now that they have to put the calorie count on their
> pastries we learn that indeed a small muffin can have 400+ calories and
> cost almost $2. Most muffins that size should only have between 150-240
> calories. Think is I can walk across the parking lot to the bagel cafe
> and get a muffin twice the size but probably the same calories for
> $1.50. Oh and espresso there is on $1.50 for a two shot drink (almost
> as much as SB's shrunken 3 shots).
>
> So hilarious to see who big business rapes the public to make money.
> Ain't capitalism grand!
>
>
>
>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[azgrey]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 3:16 PM, azgrey wrote:
> 
> > He was quite pleasant and accurate in his response to me,
> > not so with you. Almost like it's personal. Oh well. My 
> > observation is Lurk doesn't stay mad for long but he does 
> > seem to carry a grudge. I could be wrong. I distinctly remember 
> > making a post, once upon a time, that you quickly pointed out, 
> > in your own inimitable way, was unreadable. You were right.
> > I fixed it. Now I try to remember to read before pushing the 
> > send button.  
> 
> Well, as you said so well in your latest post, I imagine
> "I knew you had something to say but 
> I couldn't make hide nor hair of what it was."
> But then I went back trying to find what you were referring to,
> and out of my 9 posts responding to yours, I couldn't see
> one that fits your description above.  Anyhoo...
> 
> Sal
>

I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, it just don't matter much to me.

Coulda been an ancient memory reawakened on my end 
by all this chakra discussion.   

Something Jungian. I'm deep like that.  

Maybe I can ask Bevan about it when he visits Phoenix later
this month.  

Then again I might be busy watching paint dry while
plotting my next visit with a saint. I wonder if Shemp
will attend? I still have a National Field Badge laying 
around somewhere gathering dust. Prolly still has 
dome stickers on it from a couple of trips to FF in the 80's/90's. 

Do they have TSA type guards for Bevan when he puts 
on his roadshow? Turq or Curtis could write great satires on this
subject. Me, I'm gonna go watch basketball. I still remember the
dirty look Bevan gave me in response to a question I asked at one
of the 80's roadshow traveling extravaganza advance technique 
step right up get yer mantras here then step around the corner 
for your Chopra seminar and yer your pulse read by the sickliest 
looking Vaidya  but he was G E N U I N E  
from India while Doulliard  looked on and nodded 
his head admiringly but with a vaguely uneasy look in his eye. 

I admit I ponied up for advance techniques on 5 of those tours.
Enjoyed them then and now. But Bevan has no one other than 
hisowndamnself to blame for the state of the TMO. 

Care for more ramblin'? 

No? OK. Can't say I blames yas.

I can say I blame it on the dark roast Ethiopian-harrar that so 
deliciously inhabited my french-press earlier. Pardon me
while I go Mindfully walk off a wonderful buzz.  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Growing inflation shrinking food packages

[Mike Dixon]

But then they don't have inflation in socialist countries, especially when they 
barrow and print up money,do they?





From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:08:29 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Growing inflation shrinking food packages

  
Last night I walked by the beverage section of the local supermarket I 
noticed cute little pop cans. My how they have shrunk! Seems that in 
order to fool the public they are just packing food stuff and junk foods 
in smaller packages or even the same size package but more air. Corn 
chips which used to sell for $2 a pound are now $2 for 12 ounces. Even 
Starbucks has jumped into the act with their mini-snacks which look 
like lollipops. Now that they have to put the calorie count on their 
pastries we learn that indeed a small muffin can have 400+ calories and 
cost almost $2. Most muffins that size should only have between 150-240 
calories. Think is I can walk across the parking lot to the bagel cafe 
and get a muffin twice the size but probably the same calories for 
$1.50. Oh and espresso there is on $1.50 for a two shot drink (almost 
as much as SB's shrunken 3 shots).

So hilarious to see who big business rapes the public to make money. 
Ain't capitalism grand!





  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[shanti2218411]

   FWIW anxiety is a sx of many different psychological disorders.
   The tx  of anxiety would largely be based on what the underlying 
   disorder is.A simple phobia would be treated in much different 
   fashion than would the anxiety that is associated with a terminal 
   illness.A considerable amount of research has been done on what 
   are the most effective treatments for various disorders.With 
   respect to phobias repeated exposure to the stimuli that
   generates the phobic behavior is clearly the most well supported 
   form of treatment.To treat phobias with another form of therapy 
   (e.g. psychodynamic therapy)would in IMO be unethical especially   
   if the client were not advised of the fact that the behavioral
   treatment would much more likely result in a successful outcome.
   OTOH, anxiety associated with a personality disorder is much 
   more problematic to treat.However, what research that has been
   done would suggest that more comprehensive forms of therapy, 
   e.g. schema therapy/dialectical behavior therapy,are more likely
   to help with more pervasive and developmentally based problems 
   such as personality disorders( that often have anxiety as a sx).

   It seems to me mental health professionals who use forms of 
   therapy such as "chakra therapy" have an ethical and professional
   obligation to identify a clear theoretical framework and a body
   of evidence to support using it.Lacking the latter, they would at
   least have the obligation to explain to their clients that the 
   therapy they are using does not have research support and is not
   based on well established psychological models.As an aside while
   I have had experiences which supported the impression that
   "chakras" exist,I don't think a subtle energy model would make 
   much sense to most people.I do think this might be a good model
   for people who already subscribe to a worldview that includes the
   notion of subtle energy or chakras.I think the latter is the case 
   since helping people to understand why the are anxious very often
   helps to make them less anxious.
   
   





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> 
> > > > > > People whose trust by the public is based on their
> > > > > > credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> > > > > > authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> > > > > > no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> > > > > > violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> > > > > > How you find this funny is beyond me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
> > > > > talking about.
> > > > 
> > > > Your point adds to the discussion which I appreciate.
> > > > The attitude that comes along with that addition, not
> > > > so much.
> > > 
> > > Yeah, well, my objection is to *your* attitude as
> > > expressed above, that you're somehow qualified to
> > > evaluate the ethics of practitioners in a field of
> > > which you have little knowledge.
> > 
> > Well if that is the new standard then  I'll look forward
> > to seeing your posts restricted to editing in the future.
> > I seriously doubt you have any more insight into the
> > validity of "chakra knowledge" than I do.
> 
> I meant the field of psychotherapy in general. I don't
> have any insights at all into the validity of chakra
> therapy, nor did I claim to. But I do know enough about
> the field of psychotherapy, just from reading and
> observation (and plain common sense), to be aware that
> there are far too many different approaches being used
> besides those that are mainstream for a layperson to
> state with assurance that their use by a licensed
> practitioner violates any ethical trust.
> 
> I was pretty sure that state boards wouldn't have any
> say in what approaches were permissible on an ethical
> basis either, went and checked, and found I was correct
> (the quotes I posted).
> 
> 
> > > > But again this is more of a legalistic side.  The boards
> > > > only go so far to insure that a person had been properly
> > > > licensed.  You seem to be equating ethics with enforceable 
> > > > legality.  I am not.  Someone may have the legal right to
> > > > do something that is still unethical in my view.
> > > 
> > > Well, we all have different views as to what we consider
> > > ethical. Some might consider that medicating a client as
> > > the sole treatment is unethical, for example. Some might
> > > think the whole "disease model" of psychotherapy is
> > > unethical. That's basically what the quotes I posted were
> > > trying to get across, that even within the profession
> > > there's little agreement. And I'd suggest that the views of
> > > laypersons as to what is and isn't ethical cover an e

[FairfieldLife] Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint

[Vaj]

Mike Huckabee Says He Wants Americans To Be Indoctrinated At Gunpoint -AlterNet

Did Mike Huckabee just flush his presidential aspirations down the proverbial 
toilet? Well, if American mainstream media has an ounce of journalistic 
gumption remaining the answer most certainly would be “yes”. Huckabee has just 
been caught on video, at a Christian supremacist conference, stating that 
Americans should be forcibly indoctrinated at gunpoint. The organization which 
hosted the “Rediscover God In America” conference, United in Purpose, has 
edited Huckabee’s comment from footage of his speech, but not before People For 
The American Way’s Kyle Mantyla captured the unedited footage, in which Mike 
Huckabee states, “I almost wish that there would be, like, a simultaneous 
telecast, and all Americans would be forced–forced at gunpoint no less–to 
listen to every David Barton message, and I think our country would be better 
for it. I wish it’d happen.”

David Barton is the leading promoter of a brand of falsified American history 
altered to support the claim that America was founded as a Christian, rather 
than a secular, nation. As Chris Rodda, who has authored an entire book 
debunking Barton’s brand of pseudo-history, writes,

I was quite surprised… to come across a video clip from this conference on the 
People for the American Way (PFAW) Right Wing Watch blog with the headline 
“Huckabee: Americans Should Be Forced, At Gunpoint, To Learn From David 
Barton.” I had watched Huckabee’s speech. How on earth could I have missed a 
statement like that? Well, I didn’t. It had been edited out of the webcast that 
I had watched.

Kyle Mantyla over at PFAW’s Right Wing Watch had recorded Huckabee’s speech 
when it was streamed live on Thursday, and posted the ‘forced at gunpoint’ clip 
on Friday. By Saturday, when I watched the webcast on the United in Purpose 
website, that part of Huckabee’s speech had been edited out.

The webcast that I saw showed Barton leaving the stage as he ended his 
presentation, then the screen going black for a moment, and then what appeared 
to be the beginning of Huckabee’s speech. What was edited out was Barton 
returning to the stage to introduce Huckabee, and the first two minutes and 
forty-five seconds of Huckabee’s speech, during which Huckabee made his 
‘gunpoint’ comment and praised David Lane, the man behind all of the American 
“Renewal” and “Restoration” projects that have popped up across the country 
during the past few elections.

[below: the unedited footage from Huckabee's speech, with the "joke" about 
indoctrinating Americans at gunpoint to be found at at 1:06. Footage courtesy 
of Kyle Mantyla of Rightwing Watch, who might have almost single-handedly 
consigned Huckabee's presidential hopes to the dustbin of history.]

 
I should also note that what Chris Rodda has to say about this has especial 
weight given that she’s arguably been the most indefatigable author to 
challenge David Barton’s sprawling falsified American history oeuvre, as a Talk 
To Action site search on Rodda’s extensive posts debunking Barton would 
suggest. Chris Rodda is author of the book Liars For Jesus: The Religious 
Right’s Alternate Version of American History which prominently features David 
Barton, head ofWallbuilders and arguably king of the “liars for Jesus”. Rodda 
is also Head Researcher for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

George Erickson 
www.tundracub.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Eyes Wide Open Mantra Practice

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for both the reply and the humor expressed.
> Please excuse my tardiness. It is due to my habit of 
> mostly scanning several days of FFL in message view 
> and not following it contemporaneously.

"Several days"? This goes back almost a month.

> Judy wrote: "He's projecting how *he* would feel
> if he were in that position and assuming it must
> apply to me as well."
> 
> You often point out things you consider to be Barry's 
> projections. I wonder if you *really* feel it is true?

Seems the most likely origin, since (a) this one
doesn't apply to me at all, and (b) many of the things
he accuses me and others of doing that we don't do are
things he does all the time.

> I also wonder if you have ever examined the possibility
> that you ever engage in behaviors that you insist others
> are guilty of, such as projection?

Oh, probably I do. But I make a big effort not to
criticize folks for behavior I engage in. Barry
doesn't seem to make any effort in that direction
at all.

> Judy wrote:  "But I'm not a control freak"
> 
> Okie dokie. One more thing. Did your HOA require 
> construction of your soundproof bunker before or 
> after insisting your cluster of cats be removed?

As I said, no pets are allowed in the condo complex
where I live. Did you miss that?

Most cats I've ever had, back in NYC decades ago,
was eight, and that was only until I could put the
five of them that were kittens and their mother (who
had wandered in off the street pregnant) up for
adoption.

Anything else you'd like to know about my history
with cats?

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> > >
> > > Boy, it sure didn't take long to get *that* started up
> > > again this week. Do your neighbors complain about
> > > the sound of teeth grinding while the 50 post
> > > Judy Rule is in use and your outbursts are confined 
> > > to the Bardo?
> > 
> > No, I've had a soundproofed booth built around my
> > computer desk.
> > 
> > > Surely it scares the bejeezus out of the cats.
> > 
> > Don't have any, wish I did. No pets allowed in the
> > condo complex where I live.
> > 
> > (You do know that the notion that I get antsy when I
> > can't post is a fantasy of Barry's that he invented
> > years ago, right? He's projecting how *he* would feel
> > if he were in that position and assuming it must
> > apply to me as well. But I'm not a control freak, so
> > it doesn't bother me. I'd much rather post when I'm
> > moved to do so until I run out, then just wait until
> > the next posting period.)
> > 
> > 
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002386/
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Better get some ointment for that itchy trigger
> > > > finger before you shoot yourself in the foot again.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[Duveyoung]

To hell with what folks were able or not able to do 20,000 years ago.  I'm 
interested in knowing why the first 180,000 years of human existence didn't 
produce agriculture.  There's your salient point of history -- when hunter 
gatherers got out voted by the farmers and the village stayed in one place from 
then on.  

I wonder what their "Ed Schultz" had to say about the transition, eh?

Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> >
> > Judy,
> > 
> > Here's a video clip that talks about the ruins in Tihuanaco,
> > estimated to be as old as 17,000, and Pumapunko, may be
> > older than the former.  These ruins are in Bolivia.
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMviviXAIVI
> 
> Oh, gee, John, this is "ancient astronaut"
> nonsense. I don't know how they came up with that
> dating. Mainstream archeologists say these sites
> have been carbon-dated to 500-600 A.D.
> 
> History Channel has been into this weird stuff for
> quite some time now; it's kind of a shame.
> 
> And Bolivia is in South America too. ;-)
> 
> Tangentially--folks tend to get all excited about 
> ancient elaborate constructions and sophisticated
> art because they don't understand how they could
> have been accomplished by "primitive" peoples and
> insist they must have had "outside" assistance.
> 
> I think this is a crock, frankly. These people were
> just as ingenious and intelligent and creative as we
> are, and if they wanted to get something done, they
> could figure out ways to do it even without modern
> technology. That we don't know how they did it does
> not automatically mean they couldn't have done it!
> 
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting article.  But there's a building
> > > > site with sophisticated stonework in Peru that may be
> > > > older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need to
> > > > factor this fact into their academic theories.
> > > 
> > > If you know about it, John, I suspect they do too,
> > > and have already factored it in. (Do you remember the
> > > name of this place? Because while there are 20,000-
> > > year-old sites in Peru, they're coastal hunter-
> > > gatherer sites with no sophisticated stonework. I'd 
> > > be interested to know what you're thinking of.)
> > > 
> > > The Buttermilk Creek site is said to be the oldest
> > > in *North* America. Last I heard, Peru was in *South*
> > > America.
> > > 
> > > But speaking of cave paintings rather than spear
> > > points or stonework, there was a really fabulous
> > > article in Slate recently, excerpted from Paris
> > > Review, well worth a read (no photos, sadly):
> > > 
> > > America's Ancient Cave Art
> > > Deep in the Cumberland Plateau, mysterious drawings,
> > > thousands of years old, offer a glimpse of lost Native
> > > American cultures and traditions
> > > 
> > > http://www.slate.com/id/2288619/
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> > > > > issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> > > > > hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> > > > > and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> > > > > tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> > > > > as 15,500 years ago..."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Read more:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> > > > > Arrival of Humans in America'
> > > > > New York Times, March 24, 2011
> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
> > >
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:45 AM, tartbrain wrote:

> I would venture that caring about labels to assign to the degree of the 
> unfoldment of Awareness is also a trap. One could argue that without such 
> labels, how does one know if they are on the path and advancing.


But then you still "remain in doubt", as you would have gained no certainty. 
Nonduality remains a "mysterious object".

It's really not at all about labels, but having an authentic View of reality, 
rather than some half-baked or deluded one. And so yes, some Batgappers might 
want to go back to remaining in doubt until they uncover, more authentically, 
the "mysterious object" that is their true nature.

The metaphor of the mysterious object is about how after a direct introduction 
into our true nature, that experience is like a mysterious object kept in a 
dark room. Someone turns on the light and you see it for a moment. Later you 
don't remember 'was it green', 'was it round', etc.? So you need to go back, 
unlock the door and re-experience the mysterious object. Eventually, you're so 
familiar with the mysterious object, that you no longer remain in doubt as to 
it's nature. It's as if you carry it in the palm of your hand wherever you go. 
You no longer remain in doubt as to the nature of the mysterious object, which 
symbolizes your enlightened, natural state.

The comment wasn't about questioning everything or testing everything, which of 
course, we should -- like we would test gold.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
>
> Judy,
> 
> Here's a video clip that talks about the ruins in Tihuanaco,
> estimated to be as old as 17,000, and Pumapunko, may be
> older than the former.  These ruins are in Bolivia.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMviviXAIVI

Oh, gee, John, this is "ancient astronaut"
nonsense. I don't know how they came up with that
dating. Mainstream archeologists say these sites
have been carbon-dated to 500-600 A.D.

History Channel has been into this weird stuff for
quite some time now; it's kind of a shame.

And Bolivia is in South America too. ;-)

Tangentially--folks tend to get all excited about 
ancient elaborate constructions and sophisticated
art because they don't understand how they could
have been accomplished by "primitive" peoples and
insist they must have had "outside" assistance.

I think this is a crock, frankly. These people were
just as ingenious and intelligent and creative as we
are, and if they wanted to get something done, they
could figure out ways to do it even without modern
technology. That we don't know how they did it does
not automatically mean they couldn't have done it!



> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> > >
> > > This is an interesting article.  But there's a building
> > > site with sophisticated stonework in Peru that may be
> > > older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need to
> > > factor this fact into their academic theories.
> > 
> > If you know about it, John, I suspect they do too,
> > and have already factored it in. (Do you remember the
> > name of this place? Because while there are 20,000-
> > year-old sites in Peru, they're coastal hunter-
> > gatherer sites with no sophisticated stonework. I'd 
> > be interested to know what you're thinking of.)
> > 
> > The Buttermilk Creek site is said to be the oldest
> > in *North* America. Last I heard, Peru was in *South*
> > America.
> > 
> > But speaking of cave paintings rather than spear
> > points or stonework, there was a really fabulous
> > article in Slate recently, excerpted from Paris
> > Review, well worth a read (no photos, sadly):
> > 
> > America's Ancient Cave Art
> > Deep in the Cumberland Plateau, mysterious drawings,
> > thousands of years old, offer a glimpse of lost Native
> > American cultures and traditions
> > 
> > http://www.slate.com/id/2288619/
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> > > > issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> > > > hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> > > > and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> > > > tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> > > > as 15,500 years ago..."
> > > > 
> > > > Read more:
> > > > 
> > > > 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> > > > Arrival of Humans in America'
> > > > New York Times, March 24, 2011
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[Sal Sunshine]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 3:16 PM, azgrey wrote:

> He was quite pleasant and accurate in his response to me,
> not so with you. Almost like it's personal. Oh well. My 
> observation is Lurk doesn't stay mad for long but he does 
> seem to carry a grudge. I could be wrong. I distinctly remember 
> making a post, once upon a time, that you quickly pointed out, 
> in your own inimitable way, was unreadable. You were right.
> I fixed it. Now I try to remember to read before pushing the 
> send button.  

Well, as you said so well in your latest post, I imagine
"I knew you had something to say but 
I couldn't make hide nor hair of what it was."
But then I went back trying to find what you were referring to,
and out of my 9 posts responding to yours, I couldn't see
one that fits your description above.  Anyhoo...

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:

> > > > > People whose trust by the public is based on their
> > > > > credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> > > > > authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> > > > > no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> > > > > violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> > > > > How you find this funny is beyond me.
> > > > 
> > > > It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
> > > > talking about.
> > > 
> > > Your point adds to the discussion which I appreciate.
> > > The attitude that comes along with that addition, not
> > > so much.
> > 
> > Yeah, well, my objection is to *your* attitude as
> > expressed above, that you're somehow qualified to
> > evaluate the ethics of practitioners in a field of
> > which you have little knowledge.
> 
> Well if that is the new standard then  I'll look forward
> to seeing your posts restricted to editing in the future.
> I seriously doubt you have any more insight into the
> validity of "chakra knowledge" than I do.

I meant the field of psychotherapy in general. I don't
have any insights at all into the validity of chakra
therapy, nor did I claim to. But I do know enough about
the field of psychotherapy, just from reading and
observation (and plain common sense), to be aware that
there are far too many different approaches being used
besides those that are mainstream for a layperson to
state with assurance that their use by a licensed
practitioner violates any ethical trust.

I was pretty sure that state boards wouldn't have any
say in what approaches were permissible on an ethical
basis either, went and checked, and found I was correct
(the quotes I posted).


> > > But again this is more of a legalistic side.  The boards
> > > only go so far to insure that a person had been properly
> > > licensed.  You seem to be equating ethics with enforceable 
> > > legality.  I am not.  Someone may have the legal right to
> > > do something that is still unethical in my view.
> > 
> > Well, we all have different views as to what we consider
> > ethical. Some might consider that medicating a client as
> > the sole treatment is unethical, for example. Some might
> > think the whole "disease model" of psychotherapy is
> > unethical. That's basically what the quotes I posted were
> > trying to get across, that even within the profession
> > there's little agreement. And I'd suggest that the views of
> > laypersons as to what is and isn't ethical cover an even
> > broader range and are clearly not as well informed.
> 
> I think I am more well informed about what might 
> constitute reliable knowledge than some of the wackier
> therapists.  That is my complaint with them.  It has
> been my experience with the whole medical profession
> that they are not trained in good thinking skills in
> medical school so I need to participate in any
> decisions for therapy that concerns my health.  They
> are just as subject to thinking to cognitive errors
> as any of us and seem clueless that this is a factor
> to consider.

I don't disagree, but is this what you call an "ethical
issue"??


> The only test I have seen that compared therapies seemed
> to suggest that the only measurable quality that related
> with outcome satisfaction with the therapy was the rapport
> the patient has with the therapist.

Exactly, as I went on to say.

> I guess it all depends on what we are talking about.
> Some of the psychiatric conditions that seem to appear
> in people who attribute the symptoms to chakras seem
> to be severe enough that egging them on that this is a
> natural growth would be as unethical as telling a
> person YES, there is a demon inside you.

I don't know that anybody, client or therapist,
"attributes the symptoms to chakras." And I have not
gotten the impression from anything I've read about
chakra therapy that clients are "egged on that this
is a natural growth."

Rather, it seems that negative chakra experiences are
viewed as a reflection in the physical/energetic system
of the psychiatric condition, and that they represent
something *having gone wrong* with "natural growth"
that needs to be attended to and put back on track.

Not really all that much different from, say, various
physical pains that don't have an organic cause, i.e.,
negative chakra experiences involve somatization of
psychological disturbance.

> > An editing client of mine with whom I later became
> > friends was a psychotherapist. She had devised her own
> > method of therapy and claimed (to me, don't know if she
> > ever told her clients) she received guidance in 
> > applying it from certain discarnate entities. I don't
> > think she was licensed, and I don't recall where she
> > received training, but she had quite a bit, including
> > in Gestalt and Rolfing. Do

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[azgrey]

Harsh Lurk, very harsh. My intention was neither to demean you
nor to copulate. I find Sal's observation as to her own experience
to be accurate. Grammar police are a drag. We all mistype. What 
I was pointing out was that I knew you had something to say but 
I couldn't make hide nor hair of what it was. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> Sal, If I'm going to get fucked, I at least want a kiss.  At least Az offered 
> a kiss. You did not, and that is the difference.  Kapish?
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:40 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > >> hat is really neat, duff (dug from fairfield).  But I hope you have him
> > >> the appropiate FF honors.  Starting with a standing O when he walks into
> > >> a room, or is introduced.  Hanging on his every word.  Maybe offering
> > >> some flowers.  I hope you done the community proud.
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I loves ya Lurk. You know I truly do from the
> > > bottom of my heart, but, are you even capable
> > > of writing a grammatically correct declarative 
> > > sentence? Christalmightyman!! Grammar police
> > > I'm not, but sometimes while reading your posts
> > > I think I'm reading something written by someone
> > > having a seizure.   
> > 
> > Uh, oh...get ready, az. :) The last time
> > I made some remark in this vein to lurk
> > I got tarred with basically just that label. 
> > 
> > Sal
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation on the rise locally, nationally

[azgrey]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> 
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:40 PM, azgrey wrote:
> 
> > 
> >> hat is really neat, duff (dug from fairfield).  But I hope you have him
> >> the appropiate FF honors.  Starting with a standing O when he walks into
> >> a room, or is introduced.  Hanging on his every word.  Maybe offering
> >> some flowers.  I hope you done the community proud.
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > I loves ya Lurk. You know I truly do from the
> > bottom of my heart, but, are you even capable
> > of writing a grammatically correct declarative 
> > sentence? Christalmightyman!! Grammar police
> > I'm not, but sometimes while reading your posts
> > I think I'm reading something written by someone
> > having a seizure.   
> 
> Uh, oh...get ready, az. :) The last time
> I made some remark in this vein to lurk
> I got tarred with basically just that label. 
> 
> Sal
>

He was quite pleasant and accurate in his response to me,
not so with you. Almost like it's personal. Oh well. My 
observation is Lurk doesn't stay mad for long but he does 
seem to carry a grudge. I could be wrong. I distinctly remember 
making a post, once upon a time, that you quickly pointed out, 
in your own inimitable way, was unreadable. You were right.
I fixed it. Now I try to remember to read before pushing the 
send button.  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Eyes Wide Open Mantra Practice

[azgrey]

Thanks for both the reply and the humor expressed.
Please excuse my tardiness. It is due to my habit of 
mostly scanning several days of FFL in message view 
and not following it contemporaneously.

Judy wrote: "He's projecting how *he* would feel
if he were in that position and assuming it must
apply to me as well."

You often point out things you consider to be Barry's 
projections. I wonder if you *really* feel it is true?  
I also wonder if you have ever examined the possibility
that you ever engage in behaviors that you insist others
are guilty of, such as projection? 

Judy wrote:  "But I'm not a control freak"

Okie dokie. One more thing. Did your HOA require 
construction of your soundproof bunker before or 
after insisting your cluster of cats be removed?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> >
> > Boy, it sure didn't take long to get *that* started up
> > again this week. Do your neighbors complain about
> > the sound of teeth grinding while the 50 post
> > Judy Rule is in use and your outbursts are confined 
> > to the Bardo?
> 
> No, I've had a soundproofed booth built around my
> computer desk.
> 
> > Surely it scares the bejeezus out of the cats.
> 
> Don't have any, wish I did. No pets allowed in the
> condo complex where I live.
> 
> (You do know that the notion that I get antsy when I
> can't post is a fantasy of Barry's that he invented
> years ago, right? He's projecting how *he* would feel
> if he were in that position and assuming it must
> apply to me as well. But I'm not a control freak, so
> it doesn't bother me. I'd much rather post when I'm
> moved to do so until I run out, then just wait until
> the next posting period.)
> 
> 
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002386/
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Better get some ointment for that itchy trigger
> > > finger before you shoot yourself in the foot again.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:

Many fascinating points!  I'll comment below.
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Always good to consider an edit for simplification especially with a 
> > potentially pretentious word like "epistemological".  In most conversations 
> > I would not use it. But here on FFL life some posters like Doug use a 
> > system for assessing validity that is outside the methods accepted by the 
> > field.  So in this case I am making clear where I am coming from.  Doug 
> > likes to use some of the terminology of the epistemology of the scientific 
> > method while ignoring its actual rules in favor of a subjective valuation.
> > 
> > I would say that, for me, figuring out where a person is coming from in 
> > their relationship to epistemological standards is key for understanding 
> > the perspective of the poster.  That includes myself since I am often 
> > guilty of failing to apply them rigorously. 
> > 
> > I don't consider your point picky at all.  I welcome any challenge to 
> > justify me using the "E" word!
> 
> That's generous of you - I sometimes wonder whether
> my interest in such things is a bit, well, 'maladjusted'
> or some such! ;-)
> 
> I would come back to a point though which I feel something
> for. You say, for example, 'Doug likes to use some of the
> terminology of the epistemology of the scientific method
> while ignoring its actual rules...'
> 
> I see where you're coming from there (and sympathise). 
> 
> On the other hand, where I see things differently to you,
> is that I don't believe, as you say, that there are any *actual
> rules* that can be assigned to this thing we refer to as "the
> scientific method".

I don't understand you here.  The method is a collection of rules.  That is 
pretty much all it is.  The variables come in when we apply them.
> 
> Given the huge role played by this idea of the "scientific
> method" in our culture, in our time, in our psyches, I take
> this consequence to be hugely significant.

Not understanding its values and limitations is a big problem in society.  

> 
> It's as if, for many people, the previous ages' certainties
> of Religion have been replaced by a belief in Science. It is
> the opium of the atheists. And this faith in Science is, at
> rock bottom, a faith in method - in other words an epistemological
> view (back to our word!).

I'm not sure faith is the right term.  I would use earned confidence. As far as 
sciences relationship to, atheism is concerned I don't believe it is my opium.  
More like my cup of coffee!  And I do not limit my own confidence to things 
which happen to be easy to apply the scientific method to.  I believe that we 
can know things in lots of different ways and some things are not well suited 
to that kind of analysis.  The arts give us a completely different lens to view 
our lives through but they are no less valuable for their lack of application 
of the scientific method.  But many claims made in spiritual systems are in 
fact stated in a falsifiable form so the method can help sort fact from fantasy.

It certainly was not the application of the scientific method that led me away 
from believing in any of the God myths I am aware of as being literally true. 
It had more to do with studying the history of ideas and reading the scriptures 
and asking myself, how would I know if this was true?  What is the proof system 
being offered for these assertions?  Some scriptures, like the New Testiment, 
use fragments of the evidence methods contained in the scientific method 
because these are natural ways for people to test credibility and were only 
formalized recently in history.  But you see the attempts at using things like 
consensus among witnesses just as we do here on FFL.  And just like here they 
are used unconvincingly to me often times.

> 
> How I see it though is that all attempts to *grasp* this method
> (especially as a set of rules) fail. You might say it's a story
> started by David Hume, then a rearguard action from Kant followed
> by the 19th & 20th century positivists, then severely disrupted
> by Peirce, Duhem, Popper, Kuhn, Feyarabend et. al.
> 
> Where that leaves us (IMO) is that, whether or not Science 
> works, (it obviously does to an extent!), HOW it works is
> something of a deep mystery. It's NOT reducible to a set 
> of rules. 

I think we know why some of the rules work.  You may be transcending my level 
of theoretical analysis.  Philosophy has a way of challenging some basic 
tenants that we take for granted in how we actually live our lives and test 
ideas in the real world.  I see the scientific method to be useful in making 
fewer mistakes not eliminating them.  I'll certainly read anything you care to 
write expanding this topic.  I would welcome the mental stretch.

> 
> And I find that intriguing!

Bei

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[John]

Judy,

Here's a video clip that talks about the ruins in Tihuanaco, estimated to be as 
old as 17,000, and Pumapunko, may be older than the former.  These ruins are in 
Bolivia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMviviXAIVI

JR






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting article.  But there's a building
> > site with sophisticated stonework in Peru that may be
> > older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need to
> > factor this fact into their academic theories.
> 
> If you know about it, John, I suspect they do too,
> and have already factored it in. (Do you remember the
> name of this place? Because while there are 20,000-
> year-old sites in Peru, they're coastal hunter-
> gatherer sites with no sophisticated stonework. I'd 
> be interested to know what you're thinking of.)
> 
> The Buttermilk Creek site is said to be the oldest
> in *North* America. Last I heard, Peru was in *South*
> America.
> 
> But speaking of cave paintings rather than spear
> points or stonework, there was a really fabulous
> article in Slate recently, excerpted from Paris
> Review, well worth a read (no photos, sadly):
> 
> America's Ancient Cave Art
> Deep in the Cumberland Plateau, mysterious drawings,
> thousands of years old, offer a glimpse of lost Native
> American cultures and traditions
> 
> http://www.slate.com/id/2288619/
> 
> 
>  
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  
> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> > > issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> > > hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> > > and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> > > tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> > > as 15,500 years ago..."
> > > 
> > > Read more:
> > > 
> > > 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> > > Arrival of Humans in America'
> > > New York Times, March 24, 2011
> > > http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  
> wrote:
> 
> Always good to consider an edit for simplification especially with a 
> potentially pretentious word like "epistemological".  In most conversations I 
> would not use it. But here on FFL life some posters like Doug use a system 
> for assessing validity that is outside the methods accepted by the field.  So 
> in this case I am making clear where I am coming from.  Doug likes to use 
> some of the terminology of the epistemology of the scientific method while 
> ignoring its actual rules in favor of a subjective valuation.
> 
> I would say that, for me, figuring out where a person is coming from in their 
> relationship to epistemological standards is key for understanding the 
> perspective of the poster.  That includes myself since I am often guilty of 
> failing to apply them rigorously. 
> 
> I don't consider your point picky at all.  I welcome any challenge to justify 
> me using the "E" word!

That's generous of you - I sometimes wonder whether
my interest in such things is a bit, well, 'maladjusted'
or some such! ;-)

I would come back to a point though which I feel something
for. You say, for example, 'Doug likes to use some of the
terminology of the epistemology of the scientific method
while ignoring its actual rules...'

I see where you're coming from there (and sympathise). 

On the other hand, where I see things differently to you,
is that I don't believe, as you say, that there are any *actual
rules* that can be assigned to this thing we refer to as "the
scientific method".

Given the huge role played by this idea of the "scientific
method" in our culture, in our time, in our psyches, I take
this consequence to be hugely significant.

It's as if, for many people, the previous ages' certainties
of Religion have been replaced by a belief in Science. It is
the opium of the atheists. And this faith in Science is, at
rock bottom, a faith in method - in other words an epistemological
view (back to our word!).

How I see it though is that all attempts to *grasp* this method
(especially as a set of rules) fail. You might say it's a story
started by David Hume, then a rearguard action from Kant followed
by the 19th & 20th century positivists, then severely disrupted
by Peirce, Duhem, Popper, Kuhn, Feyarabend et. al.

Where that leaves us (IMO) is that, whether or not Science 
works, (it obviously does to an extent!), HOW it works is
something of a deep mystery. It's NOT reducible to a set 
of rules. 

And I find that intriguing!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> 
> > > > People whose trust by the public is based on their
> > > > credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> > > > authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> > > > no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> > > > violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> > > > How you find this funny is beyond me.
> > > 
> > > It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
> > > talking about.
> > 
> > Your point adds to the discussion which I appreciate.
> > The attitude that comes along with that addition, not
> > so much.
> 
> Yeah, well, my objection is to *your* attitude as
> expressed above, that you're somehow qualified to
> evaluate the ethics of practitioners in a field of
> which you have little knowledge.

Well if that is the new standard then  I'll look forward to seeing your posts 
restricted to editing in the future.I seriously doubt you have any more insight 
into the validity of "chakra knowledge" than I do.


> 
> > Ignoring that...
> > 
> > For me the question does come down to ethics. And although
> > you are focusing on the more freewheeling psychotherapy I
> > was including all mental health professionals including 
> > psychiatrists.
> 
> I don't think there would be many psychiatrists doing
> chakra therapy. In any case, since they're MDs, they'd
> be subject to a different set of requirements.
> 
> > Your point is that there is no legal oversight over 
> > psychotherapists and it is left up to them what is ethical.
> 
> Again, that's only with regard to approach. "Do not harm,
> and do not have sex with current clients, and always
> respect clients' dignity, autonomy and privacy" are
> absolute ethical requirements for psychotherapists.
> 
> > Point taken. I don't know which states would actually call
> > a person out if they felt the practices had gotten too
> > wacky or got complaints.
> 
> If there were complaints, in any state, they'd be
> investigated, and if the complaints were deemed valid,
> the therapist would be "called out." But if clients are
> satisfied and feel they've been helped, "wackiness" per
> se would likely not set off any alarms. (Complaints
> might come from families or even friends or conceivably
> employers if the client didn't appear to them to have
> been helped, however, no matter how happy the client
> was with the therapy.)
> 
> > But again this is more of a legalistic side.  The boards
> > only go so far to insure that a person had been properly
> > licensed.  You seem to be equating ethics with enforceable 
> > legality.  I am not.  Someone may have the legal right to
> > do something that is still unethical in my view.
> 
> Well, we all have different views as to what we consider
> ethical. Some might consider that medicating a client as
> the sole treatment is unethical, for example. Some might
> think the whole "disease model" of psychotherapy is
> unethical. That's basically what the quotes I posted were
> trying to get across, that even within the profession
> there's little agreement. And I'd suggest that the views of
> laypersons as to what is and isn't ethical cover an even
> broader range and are clearly not as well informed.

I think I am more well informed about what might constitute reliable knowledge 
than some of the wackier therapists.  That is my complaint with them.  It has 
been my experience with the whole medical profession that they are not trained 
in good thinking skills in medical school so I need to participate in any 
decisions for therapy that concerns my health.  They are just as subject to 
thinking to cognitive errors as any of us and seem clueless that this is a 
factor to consider.

> 
> > For me, using a thoery that is as contradictory in its
> > details from different sources would be unethical.  Vaj
> > has made a case that someone could gain experiences from
> > a person who themselves can show where they learned it
> > seems like a step in the right direction.
> 
> I looked at a few Web sites of chakra therapists, and
> they all gave a precis of the therapist's experience and
> background with regard to chakras.
> 
> In any case, I'd suggest that the appropriate criterion
> is not whether details from different sources are in
> accord, but whether clients are helped. That's very
> different from the medical model, of necessity, because
> the process is so much more subjective.
> 
> Client A might find working with Therapist X, who uses
> one set of details, more helpful than working with
> Therapist Y, who uses a different set. With Client B,
> it might be the reverse. Is there an ethical issue
> here?

The only test I have seen that compared therapies seemed to suggest that the 
only measurable quality that related with outcome satisfaction with the thera

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> > > 
> > Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> > week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> > start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> > do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> > with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> > create a combative perspective.
> 
> My comments are general, not in reference to any poster.

I hope not, since the above, which purports to describe
my behavior, is entirely false.


> The phenomenon of looking for an opportunity, anywhere, to vent, blow up, get 
> angry and/or disparage is pretty common. I have observed it throughout my 
> life in parents, bosses, peers, friends, etc. And have experienced my self 
> from time to time. Its a trans-rational state. No rational response can sooth 
> such a soul in that state. Almost any response simple throws fuel on the 
> flames. 
> 
> Eckart Tolle goes into this phenomenon -- using his model of the "pain body" 
> -- which I read as the networked mass nexus of active samskaras. When such 
> dominates, or builds up extensive pressure, some external target is needed to 
> release it. Some thing that will absorb the current, or ground it, using 
> electricity as a metaphor. 
> 
> The one thing that I have found that works, to a degree, is simple don't 
> react to it. Don't resist it. Just ignore it and move on. OTOH, if one 
> engages a person in such a state, it often makes one own pain body flair and 
> then you have two irrational flaming blobs of pain trying to use the other as 
> a grounding or conductor to release all of that intense energy within.
> 
> There can be a certain avoidance feeling, perhaps a subtle fear or discomfort 
> being in the presence of such a person, the apprehension of getting dragged 
> into a unprovoked, irrational fight. It seems as if the "Painer" can often 
> smell that subtle apprehension/fear, like a tiger does (at least in urban 
> myth land). 
> 
> Understanding the dynamic, and knowing that the only refuge is 
> non-resistance, non-reaction, and the willingness to calmly let their energy 
> get released, flow over and out of you, not getting in you -- no absorbing of 
> that energy -- creates a calming vibe upfront. And even some compassion. 
> Understanding the dynamic, and knowing its not "them" but just that their 
> pain body is exploding.  
> 
> In that mode, the Painer doesn't smell any fear (actually I think its an 
> auric thing, there aura is attracted to the fear component in your aura -- 
> but that is mystical speculation). They tend to move on, looking for a better 
> dumping ground for their garbage.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Movie mini-review: "Cracks"

[Bhairitu]

On 04/02/2011 10:07 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>> As you can probably tell, I've been on an Eva Green
>> kick lately. :-)
>
> Yeah, what, six years now and running.
>

Ah, give him a break.  He obviously doesn't have a Twitter account so he 
"tweets" here. :-D

As for following actresses there is sort of a phenomenon of "buddies" 
going on right now on FX's "Justified".  I'm now expecting Thomas Jane 
and Jane Adams from HBO's "Hung" to show up any episode now.   Natalie 
Zea has been a regular on the show since season one and we just had two 
episodes with Recca Cresskrof also of "Hung."   Paula Malcomson hasn't 
an episode yet though she winds up in episodes of about everything else 
on TV.  There was recently an article in the local paper about Zea and 
how you may not recognize from show to show.

And I might as well use this space to point out an interesting 
supernatural thriller "Beneath the Dark" I watched on Netflix last night:
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Beneath_the_Dark/70134673

It stars Josh Stewart and Jamie Lynn-Sigler ("The Sopranos") and is 
about a couple that winds up spending a night at an out of the way motel 
in the Mojave desert.  Sounds like every other motel horror thriller but 
it isn't.  This is a typical Hollywood indie which I am a fan of (low 
budget films with professional actors and crew) that are often much 
better than the big budget bean counter driven ones.  And for the troll 
phobic here are no trolls in this movie.

It was also a double feature night as I earlier watched "Mesrine: Part 
2: Public Enemy #1" a fine French film about 1970s gangster Jacques 
Mesrine.  I gave it and the other film both 4 stars.  AT&T will love me 
for streaming two HD movies in one night.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Mesrine_Part_2_Public_Enemy_1/70117925

The night before I watched "Nothing But the Truth" which was a Starz 
offering on Netflix.  Apparently the execs at the stars network believe 
that viewers want their 16:9 screen filled so they cropped the film from 
it's 2:35:1 (or 22:9) aspect ratio making some scenes look 
claustrophobic and poorly composed.  I'm a fan of Rod Lurie political 
thrillers and this one was good though ruined by the cropping.  Kate 
Beckinsale, Vera Farmiga and Matt Dillon star.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Nothing_But_the_Truth/70107137

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> ...
> 
> > Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
> > to its psycological sway over its epistemological validity. 
> 
> I suspect I'm inadvertently channeling Card here, but what
> is the difference between the above and the following:
> 
> "Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
> to its psychological sway over its validity."
> 
> What does "epistemological" add?

Use of redundant words, that is dual words, is well, clear duality. And is thus 
non-duality trap #47. No, wait Eva green already has 40-60. So it is trap 67.

> 
> "Epistemology" is the theory of knowledge. "Justificationism"
> i.e. the idea that 'we should believe in only those things
> for which we have good supporting evidence' is just one
> school or theory of Epistemology. 
> 
> "Epistemological validity" seems to me to be close to an
> oxymoron in that Epistemology is the theory of validity,
> not a standard for validity. 
> 
> I am being picky. But isn't that the oxygen on which
> words, concepts, discussions thrive? In the same way
> as a guitarist will be ***picky*** about keeping her
> guitar in tune?...
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > 
> > > > >  wrote:

> > > People whose trust by the public is based on their
> > > credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> > > authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> > > no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> > > violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> > > How you find this funny is beyond me.
> > 
> > It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
> > talking about.
> 
> Your point adds to the discussion which I appreciate.
> The attitude that comes along with that addition, not
> so much.

Yeah, well, my objection is to *your* attitude as
expressed above, that you're somehow qualified to
evaluate the ethics of practitioners in a field of
which you have little knowledge.

> Ignoring that...
> 
> For me the question does come down to ethics. And although
> you are focusing on the more freewheeling psychotherapy I
> was including all mental health professionals including 
> psychiatrists.

I don't think there would be many psychiatrists doing
chakra therapy. In any case, since they're MDs, they'd
be subject to a different set of requirements.

> Your point is that there is no legal oversight over 
> psychotherapists and it is left up to them what is ethical.

Again, that's only with regard to approach. "Do not harm,
and do not have sex with current clients, and always
respect clients' dignity, autonomy and privacy" are
absolute ethical requirements for psychotherapists.

> Point taken. I don't know which states would actually call
> a person out if they felt the practices had gotten too
> wacky or got complaints.

If there were complaints, in any state, they'd be
investigated, and if the complaints were deemed valid,
the therapist would be "called out." But if clients are
satisfied and feel they've been helped, "wackiness" per
se would likely not set off any alarms. (Complaints
might come from families or even friends or conceivably
employers if the client didn't appear to them to have
been helped, however, no matter how happy the client
was with the therapy.)

> But again this is more of a legalistic side.  The boards
> only go so far to insure that a person had been properly
> licensed.  You seem to be equating ethics with enforceable 
> legality.  I am not.  Someone may have the legal right to
> do something that is still unethical in my view.

Well, we all have different views as to what we consider
ethical. Some might consider that medicating a client as
the sole treatment is unethical, for example. Some might
think the whole "disease model" of psychotherapy is
unethical. That's basically what the quotes I posted were
trying to get across, that even within the profession
there's little agreement. And I'd suggest that the views of
laypersons as to what is and isn't ethical cover an even
broader range and are clearly not as well informed.

> For me, using a thoery that is as contradictory in its
> details from different sources would be unethical.  Vaj
> has made a case that someone could gain experiences from
> a person who themselves can show where they learned it
> seems like a step in the right direction.

I looked at a few Web sites of chakra therapists, and
they all gave a precis of the therapist's experience and
background with regard to chakras.

In any case, I'd suggest that the appropriate criterion
is not whether details from different sources are in
accord, but whether clients are helped. That's very
different from the medical model, of necessity, because
the process is so much more subjective.

Client A might find working with Therapist X, who uses
one set of details, more helpful than working with
Therapist Y, who uses a different set. With Client B,
it might be the reverse. Is there an ethical issue
here?

An editing client of mine with whom I later became
friends was a psychotherapist. She had devised her own
method of therapy and claimed (to me, don't know if she
ever told her clients) she received guidance in 
applying it from certain discarnate entities. I don't
think she was licensed, and I don't recall where she
received training, but she had quite a bit, including
in Gestalt and Rolfing. Don't think she used chakras
specifically, but she would have been familiar with
the theory.

In any case, she had more clients than she could
handle, many of whom practically worshipped her
because of what they felt she had done for them. She
was constantly getting referrals and would have to
turn some of them down because her schedule was
aready full.

By the time I made her acquaintance, she was in her
60s, with decades of work behind her, and she
continued seeing clients well into her 80s. Far as
I'm aware, she never had a complaint filed against her.
Is there an ethical issue here?

> I wonder about the actual exposure to "chakra thoery"
> of anyone combining it in their practice.  These are
> ethical

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 12:21 PM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> > Which brings to mind Christian Science. Any experience or observations on 
> > the core inner practices. Not the outer things (like not seeing doctors -- 
> > which is a myth, or empirical ineffectiveness in some cases.) Rather the 
> > opening up oneself to Divine healing energy.  I have always groked (what I 
> > naively sense) the essence of it. It seems in my simple uninformed view to 
> > be a type of transmission. Not a transmission from one entity to another 
> > (though thats another model, I have heard hospitals are jammed packed with 
> > "angels" doing healing and soul work.)  Rather an absolute type of 
> > transmission of Awareness to Awareness enabled by opening oneself up to it.
> 
> I'm not very familiar with Christian Science. I do remember a college friend 
> who was Gay. Whenever he'd express any Gay sentiment, his parents would make 
> him go into healing mode to try to cure him of the disease of homosexuality. 
> And that rather appalled me.
>

Yeah, I am not advocating the practice -- as its currently practiced or the 
practicioners and their styles. Just the original insight of MBE rang somewhat 
true to me.   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  
wrote:

Always good to consider an edit for simplification especially with a 
potentially pretentious word like "epistemological".  In most conversations I 
would not use it. But here on FFL life some posters like Doug use a system for 
assessing validity that is outside the methods accepted by the field.  So in 
this case I am making clear where I am coming from.  Doug likes to use some of 
the terminology of the epistemology of the scientific method while ignoring its 
actual rules in favor of a subjective valuation.

I would say that, for me, figuring out where a person is coming from in their 
relationship to epistemological standards is key for understanding the 
perspective of the poster.  That includes myself since I am often guilty of 
failing to apply them rigorously. 

I don't consider your point picky at all.  I welcome any challenge to justify 
me using the "E" word!



>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> ...
> 
> > Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
> > to its psycological sway over its epistemological validity. 
> 
> I suspect I'm inadvertently channeling Card here, but what
> is the difference between the above and the following:
> 
> "Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
> to its psychological sway over its validity."
> 
> What does "epistemological" add?
> 
> "Epistemology" is the theory of knowledge. "Justificationism"
> i.e. the idea that 'we should believe in only those things
> for which we have good supporting evidence' is just one
> school or theory of Epistemology. 
> 
> "Epistemological validity" seems to me to be close to an
> oxymoron in that Epistemology is the theory of validity,
> not a standard for validity. 
> 
> I am being picky. But isn't that the oxygen on which
> words, concepts, discussions thrive? In the same way
> as a guitarist will be ***picky*** about keeping her
> guitar in tune?...
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 12:21 PM, tartbrain wrote:

> Which brings to mind Christian Science. Any experience or observations on the 
> core inner practices. Not the outer things (like not seeing doctors -- which 
> is a myth, or empirical ineffectiveness in some cases.) Rather the opening up 
> oneself to Divine healing energy.  I have always groked (what I naively 
> sense) the essence of it. It seems in my simple uninformed view to be a type 
> of transmission. Not a transmission from one entity to another (though thats 
> another model, I have heard hospitals are jammed packed with "angels" doing 
> healing and soul work.)  Rather an absolute type of transmission of Awareness 
> to Awareness enabled by opening oneself up to it.

I'm not very familiar with Christian Science. I do remember a college friend 
who was Gay. Whenever he'd express any Gay sentiment, his parents would make 
him go into healing mode to try to cure him of the disease of homosexuality. 
And that rather appalled me.

[FairfieldLife] Car that runs on water - If this is Real it Will Crash the World The Reformed Broker

[Rick Archer]

http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2011/04/01/if-this-is-real-it-will-crash-th
e-world/

 

http://presscore.ca/2011/?p=1910

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
...

> Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
> to its psycological sway over its epistemological validity. 

I suspect I'm inadvertently channeling Card here, but what
is the difference between the above and the following:

"Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated
to its psychological sway over its validity."

What does "epistemological" add?

"Epistemology" is the theory of knowledge. "Justificationism"
i.e. the idea that 'we should believe in only those things
for which we have good supporting evidence' is just one
school or theory of Epistemology. 

"Epistemological validity" seems to me to be close to an
oxymoron in that Epistemology is the theory of validity,
not a standard for validity. 

I am being picky. But isn't that the oxygen on which
words, concepts, discussions thrive? In the same way
as a guitarist will be ***picky*** about keeping her
guitar in tune?...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Movie mini-review: "Cracks"

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> As you can probably tell, I've been on an Eva Green 
> kick lately. :-) 


Yeah, what, six years now and running.

>Knowing that she was about to appear
> as Morgan Le Fay in the STARZ "Camelot" TV series,
> I went back to catch up on some of her past perform-
> ances. So I watched the extended director's cut of
> Ridley Scott's "Kingdom Of Heaven." I had to watch
> that version because 7/8 of her performance got cut
> out of the theatrical version. I thought she was
> good in it. Then I watched her in "Camelot" and felt
> that she was as good as the material permitted her
> to be. 
> 
> But today I watched her in a 2009 film called "Cracks,"
> which I am given to understand is English girls school 
> slang for "crushes." And lo and behold there is again
> a Scott Connection -- the writer and director of this 
> film is Ridley Scott's daughter Jordan. She is some-
> one to watch; this movie is good.
> 
> And Eva Green finally lives up to my expectations for
> her as an actress. Her performance in this film can and 
> should be compared to the best work of Isabelle Adjani. 
> 
> She plays the glamorous diving instructor at a remote
> girls school full of young women who were all pretty
> much sent there for a few months by their parents
> several years ago, and are finally figuring out that
> their parents are never going to come to take them 
> home. The girls have "cracks" on their worldly mentor,
> and she has cracks on them. When a new girl arrives, 
> and the teacher develops a crack on her, we start to
> learn that there are other kinds of cracks in the
> teacher's worldly facade. 
> 
> Jordan Scott does her daddy proud. This is as good a 
> film as most of his, and many of Francois Truffaut's.
>

[FairfieldLife] Movie mini-review: "Cracks"

[turquoiseb]

As you can probably tell, I've been on an Eva Green 
kick lately. :-) Knowing that she was about to appear
as Morgan Le Fay in the STARZ "Camelot" TV series,
I went back to catch up on some of her past perform-
ances. So I watched the extended director's cut of
Ridley Scott's "Kingdom Of Heaven." I had to watch
that version because 7/8 of her performance got cut
out of the theatrical version. I thought she was
good in it. Then I watched her in "Camelot" and felt
that she was as good as the material permitted her
to be. 

But today I watched her in a 2009 film called "Cracks,"
which I am given to understand is English girls school 
slang for "crushes." And lo and behold there is again
a Scott Connection -- the writer and director of this 
film is Ridley Scott's daughter Jordan. She is some-
one to watch; this movie is good.

And Eva Green finally lives up to my expectations for
her as an actress. Her performance in this film can and 
should be compared to the best work of Isabelle Adjani. 

She plays the glamorous diving instructor at a remote
girls school full of young women who were all pretty
much sent there for a few months by their parents
several years ago, and are finally figuring out that
their parents are never going to come to take them 
home. The girls have "cracks" on their worldly mentor,
and she has cracks on them. When a new girl arrives, 
and the teacher develops a crack on her, we start to
learn that there are other kinds of cracks in the
teacher's worldly facade. 

Jordan Scott does her daddy proud. This is as good a 
film as most of his, and many of Francois Truffaut's. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:53 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> > 
> > > So the list appears to be necessary but not sufficient for the 
> > > established non-dual state.
> > 
> > 
> > It's actually an abbreviated list of 10 classes. There are really hundreds 
> > of examples to guide you when you "miss it" or are in danger of "caging it 
> > up" or "being ensnared -- but there are also the classic slogans for 
> > acquiring nonduality as well.
> > 
> > The whole idea is to "not remain in doubt" as to what the direct experience 
> > of nonduality is.
> >
> 
> Not doubting does release a lot of wound up mental energy and tends to still 
> the mind. OTOH, in listening to some BatGap interviews, and some posts there, 
> and here, it would appear to me that a little more doubting about what the 
> direct experience of non-duality is may be in order.

"Can I get an Amen?" "Goddamn right you can!"  The value of doubt on the path 
of sincere inquiry that goes beyond finding answers that make us feel special 
about our selves is highly underrated.  Truth stands up to doubt easily with 
its shoulders thrown back and its head held high.  Bullshittery, especially 
that directed towards ourselves,demonizes doubt itself as if THAT is the 
problem with being full of it.





> 
> I would venture that caring about labels to assign to the degree of the 
> unfoldment of Awareness is also a trap. One could argue that without such 
> labels, how does one know if they are on the path and advancing. I respond by 
> saying that I am going nowhere. I am staying right here right now. I am not 
> attempting to get "over there" "sometime later". And that stages of 
> unfoldment are somewhat self validating. Not compared to some milestone "out 
> there" but compared to the stage of unfoldment yesterday. Or last year. In 
> this framework there is little room for doubt -- or egoic hubris.
>

[FairfieldLife] Banaras: A Mystic Love Story

[Vaj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_zEiKTfykg

Watch it while you can. It will probably get taken down.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:45 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> > Not doubting does release a lot of wound up mental energy and tends to 
> > still the mind. OTOH, in listening to some BatGap interviews, and some 
> > posts there, and here, it would appear to me that a little more doubting 
> > about what the direct experience of non-duality is may be in order.
> > 
> > I would venture that caring about labels to assign to the degree of the 
> > unfoldment of Awareness is also a trap. One could argue that without such 
> > labels, how does one know if they are on the path and advancing. I respond 
> > by saying that I am going nowhere. I am staying right here right now. I am 
> > not attempting to get "over there" "sometime later". And that stages of 
> > unfoldment are somewhat self validating. Not compared to some milestone 
> > "out there" but compared to the stage of unfoldment yesterday. Or last 
> > year. In this framework there is little room for doubt -- or egoic hubris.
> 
> 
> One of advantages of having an authentic experience of nonduality is that one 
> can apply enlightenment as the path and effectively skip gradations of a path 
> which leads to enlightenment. But really, all those gradations of a graduated 
> path are included in taking the fruition (or enlightenment) as the path.
>


Adyashanti talks about different types of transmissions. Relative (not is 
words) like shaktipat. But Absolute (not his words) transmission is the 
transmission from Awareness to Awareness, not from teacher to student. And 
while that transmission may come through a teacher, it is not limited to that. 
Its a matter of opening oneself up to what is there, everywhere. 

In my view, MMY talked of a similar things. He talked about pictures of fully 
realized beings. He said the entity is not there, but rather its a picture of a 
vessel that embodied and fully reflected that. And there is something in the 
image of such a vessel that is a gateway to 

Some (tantric I presume) schools and practices involve staring into peoples 
eyes or at pictures, and the eyes, of realized ones. I have some value in that. 
Placebo effect possible, but there can be a stilling of the mind and (as if) an 
expansion and clearing out of inner stuff. Lively hollow and empty by staring 
at pictures of saints. (or images of such in ones mind.)   


And thanks for the Ida, Eva story. I was not aware of the connection. 

Which brings to mind Christian Science. Any experience or observations on the 
core inner practices. Not the outer things (like not seeing doctors -- which is 
a myth, or empirical ineffectiveness in some cases.) Rather the opening up 
oneself to Divine healing energy.  I have always groked (what I naively sense) 
the essence of it. It seems in my simple uninformed view to be a type of 
transmission. Not a transmission from one entity to another (though thats 
another model, I have heard hospitals are jammed packed with "angels" doing 
healing and soul work.)  Rather an absolute type of transmission of Awareness 
to Awareness enabled by opening oneself up to it.

[FairfieldLife] For the lovers of life and music

[nablusoss1008]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoX1m8-R9JM&feature=related

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Too Hot to Touch!'..

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert  wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9EKqQWPjyo


This american should have Nobel Prize in literature long ago. 
Damn the foolish Swedes !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJpB_AEZf6U

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[tartbrain]

Trans-rational state. Made me think of the Trans-Rational Express, like the 
TransSiberian Express, or Orient Express. I see a blurb or trailer for a play 
or film by that name:

Board the Trans-Rational Express and journey to the center of the universe and 
beyond reality. Enter into the secret worlds created by explosive minds. Thrill 
to the the entire world at war within these secret worlds. Smell the 
(mind)napalm in the morning. It smells like victory.

(OK, its a first draft, not much on target, but there is something funny in the 
idea.)   

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> > > 
> > > Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> > > week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> > > start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> > > do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> > > with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> > > create a combative perspective.
> > 
> > My comments are general, not in reference to any poster. The 
> > phenomenon of looking for an opportunity, anywhere, to vent, 
> > blow up, get angry and/or disparage is pretty common. I have 
> > observed it throughout my life in parents, bosses, peers, 
> > friends, etc. And have experienced my self from time to time. 
> > Its a trans-rational state. No rational response can sooth 
> > such a soul in that state. Almost any response simple throws 
> > fuel on the flames. 
> > 
> > Eckart Tolle goes into this phenomenon -- using his model of 
> > the "pain body" -- which I read as the networked mass nexus 
> > of active samskaras. When such dominates, or builds up 
> > extensive pressure, some external target is needed to release 
> > it. Some thing that will absorb the current, or ground it, 
> > using electricity as a metaphor. 
> > 
> > The one thing that I have found that works, to a degree, is 
> > simple don't react to it. Don't resist it. Just ignore it 
> > and move on. OTOH, if one engages a person in such a state, 
> > it often makes one own pain body flair and then you have 
> > two irrational flaming blobs of pain trying to use the 
> > other as a grounding or conductor to release all of that 
> > intense energy within.
> > 
> > There can be a certain avoidance feeling, perhaps a subtle 
> > fear or discomfort being in the presence of such a person, 
> > the apprehension of getting dragged into a unprovoked, 
> > irrational fight. It seems as if the "Painer" can often 
> > smell that subtle apprehension/fear, like a tiger does 
> > (at least in urban myth land). 
> > 
> > Understanding the dynamic, and knowing that the only refuge 
> > is non-resistance, non-reaction, and the willingness to 
> > calmly let their energy get released, flow over and out 
> > of you, not getting in you -- no absorbing of that energy -- 
> > creates a calming vibe upfront. And even some compassion. 
> > Understanding the dynamic, and knowing its not "them" but 
> > just that their pain body is exploding.  
> > 
> > In that mode, the Painer doesn't smell any fear (actually 
> > I think its an auric thing, there aura is attracted to the 
> > fear component in your aura -- but that is mystical 
> > speculation). They tend to move on, looking for a better 
> > dumping ground for their garbage.
> 
> Very wise and well-stated post. I have nothing to 
> either question in it or add to it. 
> 
> But, as I suggested to Vaj earlier, maybe we're
> overthinking it. Maybe it's much simpler than that,
> and this whole combative perspective thang is just 
> being a New Yorker?
> 
> :-)
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:45 AM, tartbrain wrote:

> Not doubting does release a lot of wound up mental energy and tends to still 
> the mind. OTOH, in listening to some BatGap interviews, and some posts there, 
> and here, it would appear to me that a little more doubting about what the 
> direct experience of non-duality is may be in order.
> 
> I would venture that caring about labels to assign to the degree of the 
> unfoldment of Awareness is also a trap. One could argue that without such 
> labels, how does one know if they are on the path and advancing. I respond by 
> saying that I am going nowhere. I am staying right here right now. I am not 
> attempting to get "over there" "sometime later". And that stages of 
> unfoldment are somewhat self validating. Not compared to some milestone "out 
> there" but compared to the stage of unfoldment yesterday. Or last year. In 
> this framework there is little room for doubt -- or egoic hubris.


One of advantages of having an authentic experience of nonduality is that one 
can apply enlightenment as the path and effectively skip gradations of a path 
which leads to enlightenment. But really, all those gradations of a graduated 
path are included in taking the fruition (or enlightenment) as the path.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:20 AM, tartbrain wrote:

> Rolfing is not (yet) approved.  On one of the BatGap interviews, a woman said 
> she gave and received a lot of energy work before and after unfoldment. And 
> cited Rolfing (thats different from Ralphing") as a method for huge release 
> of emotional (pain body) energy stored in ones muscles (and perhaps subtle 
> body parts associated with muscles.) I know Rolfing was popular among some TM 
> teachers in the early 70's. Anyone tried it recently? Effects? 

Eva Reich, Wilhelm's daughter, was a friend of ours and she guided me into this 
type of work, which really originated with her father as Orgonomy. Ida Rolf was 
one of WR's students. So I went through the entire rolfing sequence, guided by 
advice from Eva. I found it extremely helpful in gaining a self sustaining 
"root relaxation" for my body and my energy.

Apparently rolfing can be quite painful for some people, esp. the levels which 
work with releasing the psoas muscle but I really enjoyed it thoroughly.

A great and entertaining read on this type of deep body work is Orson Bean's 
"Me and the Orgone". Often hilarious and deeply inspirational.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:53 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> > So the list appears to be necessary but not sufficient for the established 
> > non-dual state.
> 
> 
> It's actually an abbreviated list of 10 classes. There are really hundreds of 
> examples to guide you when you "miss it" or are in danger of "caging it up" 
> or "being ensnared -- but there are also the classic slogans for acquiring 
> nonduality as well.
> 
> The whole idea is to "not remain in doubt" as to what the direct experience 
> of nonduality is.
>

Not doubting does release a lot of wound up mental energy and tends to still 
the mind. OTOH, in listening to some BatGap interviews, and some posts there, 
and here, it would appear to me that a little more doubting about what the 
direct experience of non-duality is may be in order.

I would venture that caring about labels to assign to the degree of the 
unfoldment of Awareness is also a trap. One could argue that without such 
labels, how does one know if they are on the path and advancing. I respond by 
saying that I am going nowhere. I am staying right here right now. I am not 
attempting to get "over there" "sometime later". And that stages of unfoldment 
are somewhat self validating. Not compared to some milestone "out there" but 
compared to the stage of unfoldment yesterday. Or last year. In this framework 
there is little room for doubt -- or egoic hubris.

  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:16 AM, seventhray1 wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > TMers, esp. sidhas, tend to store energy in the two places they shouldn't: 
> > the chest and the head. Either place will create problems, but it also 
> > makes them imbalanced and hypersensitive. Angry or emotional outbursts, 
> > having to leave the room or avoiding certain circumstances and situations 
> > are often symptoms of this underlying imbalance. Part of the problem is 
> > they will also tend to gloss over such things as "unstressing" and thus 
> > miss the underlying problem via their ignorance of their own condition.
> >
> Right now, I am having a particularly difficult time with storing energy in 
> my midsection, but all kidding aside, storing energy in the chest or head as 
> compared to what? 

Totally neutral, balanced energy. Typically stored at the navel rather than the 
heart or at the base of the skull rather than inside it.

[FairfieldLife] 'Too Hot to Touch!'..

[Robert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9EKqQWPjyo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Ragogna interview with Bruce Cockburn

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> OK, this post is mainly for the Bruce Cockburn fans here. Mike Ragogna
> of Huffpost asks just the right questions and gets some fascinating
> answers, in the process revealing a lot about the genesis of many of the
> songs on Bruce's new album, and some from the past like "Wondering Where
> The Lions Are" and "Lovers In A Dangerous Time." 


I guess you are joking. Or perhaps not, this fellow is as in love with his own 
image as the Turq. And the music - why do I get the feeling I've heard this 
stuff many times before ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dGNDUdtNh8

Because he is a bore.


You're off, you need to tune in to real artists who have someting vital to say. 
Alternatively having a checking, but sadly I suppose it's to late for that. 

These are my small gifts to you; crumbles from the table of a rich man really.

Not Dark yet 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZgBhyU4IvQ

O Pastor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b-RehmqZUE

Bingo (Do turn the volume way up and dance !)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6V-lygOwA

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:53 AM, tartbrain wrote:

> So the list appears to be necessary but not sufficient for the established 
> non-dual state.


It's actually an abbreviated list of 10 classes. There are really hundreds of 
examples to guide you when you "miss it" or are in danger of "caging it up" or 
"being ensnared -- but there are also the classic slogans for acquiring 
nonduality as well.

The whole idea is to "not remain in doubt" as to what the direct experience of 
nonduality is.

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > TMers, esp. sidhas, tend to store energy in the two places they
> shouldn't: the chest and the head. Either place will create problems,
> but it also makes them imbalanced and hypersensitive. Angry or emotional
> outbursts, having to leave the room or avoiding certain circumstances
> and situations are often symptoms of this underlying imbalance. Part of
> the problem is they will also tend to gloss over such things as
> "unstressing" and thus miss the underlying problem via their ignorance
> of their own condition.
> >
> Right now, I am having a particularly difficult time with storing energy
> in my midsection, but all kidding aside, storing energy in the chest or
> head as compared to what?
>

Well, Turq seems to be storing abundant energy elsewhere.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:18 AM, seventhray1 wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > It very likely would be a dharma cage for CC, but CC is not considered a 
> > form of enlightenment in Buddhist traditions. It is helpful however. My own 
> > teacher was in continuous awareness since he was 14 years old,
> 
> This is right around Bar Mitzva age.  You don't think...?
> 
For him it was college age.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Curtis,
> 
> 
> To spread misinformation as well as good information.  As social creatures we 
> are inordinately swayed in our beliefs by this.
> 
>  credentialed disciplines that deal with the subtle energies and might
> be helpful to meditators having troubles with their subtle systems.
> These disciplines certainly are about the subtle system and are progressed 
> from 
> faith-healing to the point where they are offered in hospitals, get doctor's
> referral and some insurance coverage now.>
> 
> 
> Interesting point about the growth of science.  How do we  test new ideas and 
> sort them out from ideas that are bad ones.  Not a clean process.
> 

Insurance companies help. Mine has a huge list of alternative modalities, cites 
research on them, and approves those that have have scientific support for 
effectiveness. They approve my visits to a chiropractor. And they approve 
acupuncture if the symptom is pain. (So I said, "hey, my Pain Body" is flaring 
up, I need acupuncture for pain relief."). 

Rolfing is not (yet) approved.  On one of the BatGap interviews, a woman said 
she gave and received a lot of energy work before and after unfoldment. And 
cited Rolfing (thats different from Ralphing") as a method for huge release of 
emotional (pain body) energy stored in ones muscles (and perhaps subtle body 
parts associated with muscles.) I know Rolfing was popular among some TM 
teachers in the early 70's. Anyone tried it recently? Effects?  
> 
>  It seems chakras are coming. Trivedi and John Douglas are both
> getting themselves studied to the end of showing people
> like you who are poor in experience with it and slow to accept that there is a
> reality there which other people do experience.>
> 
> Are you aware that people can believe they are experiencing things that are 
> in fact imagined?  Do you take all faith healers at face value?  If you don't 
> buy someone's claim do you believe you are just "poor in experience"?  You 
> are making these evaluations just as I am Doug.  You are deciding that some 
> ideas are better or more substantiated than others.  We may just be coming 
> from a different standard of what we leave in or what we take out.  The kind 
> of experience you are talking about is highly overrated IMO.
> 
> 
>  People certainly are using chakra energy work with good result.
> There is a reality to that. Word-of-mouth as, "subtle energy work" makes for a
> consumer's report until there is accreditation.>
> 
> Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated to its psycological 
> sway over its epistemological validity.  Big problem in advancing our 
> knowledge.  We suck at evaluating claims and tend to overestimate our ability 
> to do so.  It is as big a problem for me as it is for you.
> 
> 
>  http://www.timeportalpubs.com/about.htm gave a presentation on chakras. A
> brain researcher there measured and collected her while she did her energy 
> work
> and it pegged the meters. Academically this is the work this guy is doing ,
> measuring 'healers'. Evidently there is a reality there by experience. Science
> is catching up. Credentials likely will come in time.>
> 
> Why give any value to the process of science if you are not going to actually 
> evaluate claims in light of the most obvious principles?  You seem content to 
> use it if it appears to support a belief, but unwilling to use it if it 
> reveals your actual lack of support of beliefs.
> 
> 

While I generally agree with your POV and points, I am also greatly humbled by 
the vast amounts of things science does not know and/or doesn't have the tools 
to detect. (Dark matter, dark energy, the vastness beyond what Hubble has given 
us, a cure for the common cold, what women really want, the 10^28 different 
states that arise in any human given different patterns of neuronic 
connections, who shot JR, and why one sox is always missing after doing 
laundry, all come to mind). For me, thinking that science has anywhere near all 
the answers is mass hubris.  

"dents in the energetic bodies"  I'm gunna leave it at that.
> 
> 
> < MUM does
> not have to endorse them. People can certainly check them out. However, by
> experience it could be very useful to some meditators. An affliction with
> meditators can be that while their mental fields are opened they are not
> necessarily open or connected at all in their body energy fields. It makes for
> a tough dis-integrated receptacle to have spiritual experience in generally.
> There's a reality to that.>

Some of it, for me, is having a model of how things work in mind, may be 
hypotheses, may be more established empirically, and doing things that are 
consistent with that model.  For example, I hold the model of kundalini as 
interesting and probably valid -- stemming from a number of personal 
observations, the pervasive trans cul

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> > 
> > Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> > week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> > start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> > do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> > with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> > create a combative perspective.
> 
> My comments are general, not in reference to any poster. The 
> phenomenon of looking for an opportunity, anywhere, to vent, 
> blow up, get angry and/or disparage is pretty common. I have 
> observed it throughout my life in parents, bosses, peers, 
> friends, etc. And have experienced my self from time to time. 
> Its a trans-rational state. No rational response can sooth 
> such a soul in that state. Almost any response simple throws 
> fuel on the flames. 
> 
> Eckart Tolle goes into this phenomenon -- using his model of 
> the "pain body" -- which I read as the networked mass nexus 
> of active samskaras. When such dominates, or builds up 
> extensive pressure, some external target is needed to release 
> it. Some thing that will absorb the current, or ground it, 
> using electricity as a metaphor. 
> 
> The one thing that I have found that works, to a degree, is 
> simple don't react to it. Don't resist it. Just ignore it 
> and move on. OTOH, if one engages a person in such a state, 
> it often makes one own pain body flair and then you have 
> two irrational flaming blobs of pain trying to use the 
> other as a grounding or conductor to release all of that 
> intense energy within.
> 
> There can be a certain avoidance feeling, perhaps a subtle 
> fear or discomfort being in the presence of such a person, 
> the apprehension of getting dragged into a unprovoked, 
> irrational fight. It seems as if the "Painer" can often 
> smell that subtle apprehension/fear, like a tiger does 
> (at least in urban myth land). 
> 
> Understanding the dynamic, and knowing that the only refuge 
> is non-resistance, non-reaction, and the willingness to 
> calmly let their energy get released, flow over and out 
> of you, not getting in you -- no absorbing of that energy -- 
> creates a calming vibe upfront. And even some compassion. 
> Understanding the dynamic, and knowing its not "them" but 
> just that their pain body is exploding.  
> 
> In that mode, the Painer doesn't smell any fear (actually 
> I think its an auric thing, there aura is attracted to the 
> fear component in your aura -- but that is mystical 
> speculation). They tend to move on, looking for a better 
> dumping ground for their garbage.

Very wise and well-stated post. I have nothing to 
either question in it or add to it. 

But, as I suggested to Vaj earlier, maybe we're
overthinking it. Maybe it's much simpler than that,
and this whole combative perspective thang is just 
being a New Yorker?

:-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:54 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 1, 2011, at 11:06 PM, tartbrain wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology 
> >>> as a hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These 
> >>> hurdles seem more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does 
> >>> this list mean CC? (And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is 
> >>> the epitome of duality. Self and other.)  
> >> 
> >> 
> >> No it does not mean CC.
> >> 
> > 
> > OK. but most if not all of these seem quite relevant traps for CC. The two 
> > starred ones are iffy and may be more non-dual / BCish.
> > 
> > If Awareness is trapped  by the eight non-starred ones, CC will not be 
> > established. Its seems like saying that the trap of not being able to read 
> > is a trap for gaining a PhD. That is true. However, its a much more 
> > relevant trap for not passing first grade.
> 
> 
> It very likely would be a dharma cage for CC, but CC is not considered a form 
> of enlightenment in Buddhist traditions. It is helpful however.

So the list appears to be necessary but not sufficient for the established 
non-dual state.

> My own teacher was in continuous awareness since he was 14 years old, a fact 
> I just happened to stumble upon while paging through some archives of the 
> Library of Tibetan Works & Archives in Dharamsala which delineated all his 
> initiations and retreats undertaken. It was just a mere landmark passed. No 
> big deal, nothing to see here, keep moving...
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Gmail Motion

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > > 
> > > > I had Gmail Motion open on my laptop while I was watch-
> > > > ing Eva Green in a few of the STARZ-censored outtakes
> > > > from "Camelot," which caused me to...uh...spring a woodie.
> > > > 
> > 
> > Is that non-duality trap #43?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Eva Green accounts for non-duality
> traps #40 through #60.
>

That could be a great milestone, along the lines of your post about Freddie, 
that one needed to be able to sit in thoughtless, Awareness state for over four 
hours. The master could say, "OK, spend the day with Eva Green, and if you have 
no desire to hump her to high heaven, then you are ready for the next teaching. 

I can see some students going, "Damn, master, I almost did it. Being one 
pointed in seeking the grace of your teachings, let me try again (and again) 
until I master this attainment." 

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> > 
> > 
> Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> create a combative perspective.
> 
> 

My comments are general, not in reference to any poster. The phenomenon of 
looking for an opportunity, anywhere, to vent, blow up, get angry and/or 
disparage is pretty common. I have observed it throughout my life in parents, 
bosses, peers, friends, etc. And have experienced my self from time to time. 
Its a trans-rational state. No rational response can sooth such a soul in that 
state. Almost any response simple throws fuel on the flames. 

Eckart Tolle goes into this phenomenon -- using his model of the "pain body" -- 
which I read as the networked mass nexus of active samskaras. When such 
dominates, or builds up extensive pressure, some external target is needed to 
release it. Some thing that will absorb the current, or ground it, using 
electricity as a metaphor. 

The one thing that I have found that works, to a degree, is simple don't react 
to it. Don't resist it. Just ignore it and move on. OTOH, if one engages a 
person in such a state, it often makes one own pain body flair and then you 
have two irrational flaming blobs of pain trying to use the other as a 
grounding or conductor to release all of that intense energy within.

There can be a certain avoidance feeling, perhaps a subtle fear or discomfort 
being in the presence of such a person, the apprehension of getting dragged 
into a unprovoked, irrational fight. It seems as if the "Painer" can often 
smell that subtle apprehension/fear, like a tiger does (at least in urban myth 
land). 

Understanding the dynamic, and knowing that the only refuge is non-resistance, 
non-reaction, and the willingness to calmly let their energy get released, flow 
over and out of you, not getting in you -- no absorbing of that energy -- 
creates a calming vibe upfront. And even some compassion. Understanding the 
dynamic, and knowing its not "them" but just that their pain body is exploding. 
 

In that mode, the Painer doesn't smell any fear (actually I think its an auric 
thing, there aura is attracted to the fear component in your aura -- but that 
is mystical speculation). They tend to move on, looking for a better dumping 
ground for their garbage. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:



Curtis,


To spread misinformation as well as good information.  As social creatures we 
are inordinately swayed in our beliefs by this.




Interesting point about the growth of science.  How do we  test new ideas and 
sort them out from ideas that are bad ones.  Not a clean process.




Are you aware that people can believe they are experiencing things that are in 
fact imagined?  Do you take all faith healers at face value?  If you don't buy 
someone's claim do you believe you are just "poor in experience"?  You are 
making these evaluations just as I am Doug.  You are deciding that some ideas 
are better or more substantiated than others.  We may just be coming from a 
different standard of what we leave in or what we take out.  The kind of 
experience you are talking about is highly overrated IMO.




Yes anecdotal evidence is compelling to those uneducated to its psycological 
sway over its epistemological validity.  Big problem in advancing our 
knowledge.  We suck at evaluating claims and tend to overestimate our ability 
to do so.  It is as big a problem for me as it is for you.


http://www.timeportalpubs.com/about.htm gave a presentation on chakras. A
brain researcher there measured and collected her while she did her energy work
and it pegged the meters. Academically this is the work this guy is doing ,
measuring 'healers'. Evidently there is a reality there by experience. Science
is catching up. Credentials likely will come in time.>

Why give any value to the process of science if you are not going to actually 
evaluate claims in light of the most obvious principles?  You seem content to 
use it if it appears to support a belief, but unwilling to use it if it reveals 
your actual lack of support of beliefs.

"dents in the energetic bodies"  I'm gunna leave it at that.


< MUM does
not have to endorse them. People can certainly check them out. However, by
experience it could be very useful to some meditators. An affliction with
meditators can be that while their mental fields are opened they are not
necessarily open or connected at all in their body energy fields. It makes for
a tough dis-integrated receptacle to have spiritual experience in generally.
There's a reality to that.>

Not by just asserting it as true as you are doing.  I get the appeal of 
anecdotal evidence within a small community.  I am subject to this influence 
too.  We need to study how it impedes our quest for truth if we are sincere.  
We need to be ready to be wrong a lot about things that FEEL sooo right. 





We are obviously working from a different choice of proof systems.  While you 
view me as "poor in experience" I view you as using science as a convenience to 
add credibility to claims without really respecting its methods.  Fair enough 
at least we are chatting about those differences.




>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > > > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > > > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > > > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > > > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > > > > this belief system.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > > > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > > > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > > > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > > > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > > > > in scriptures.)
> > > > > 
> > > > > False dichotomy.
> > > > 
> > > > I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> > > > start the discussion.
> > > 
> > > As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
> > > because it leaves out a major perspective.
> > 
> > Thus the term "start".
> > 
> > > 
> > > >  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > > > > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > > > > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > > > > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > > > > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > > > > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > > > > along with standard psychotherapy.
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> > > > are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Gmail Motion

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > > 
> > > I had Gmail Motion open on my laptop while I was watch-
> > > ing Eva Green in a few of the STARZ-censored outtakes
> > > from "Camelot," which caused me to...uh...spring a woodie.
> > > 
> 
> Is that non-duality trap #43?

I'm pretty sure that Eva Green accounts for non-duality
traps #40 through #60.

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> TMers, esp. sidhas, tend to store energy in the two places they
shouldn't: the chest and the head. Either place will create problems,
but it also makes them imbalanced and hypersensitive. Angry or emotional
outbursts, having to leave the room or avoiding certain circumstances
and situations are often symptoms of this underlying imbalance. Part of
the problem is they will also tend to gloss over such things as
"unstressing" and thus miss the underlying problem via their ignorance
of their own condition.
>
Right now, I am having a particularly difficult time with storing energy
in my midsection, but all kidding aside, storing energy in the chest or
head as compared to what?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> It very likely would be a dharma cage for CC, but CC is not considered
a form of enlightenment in Buddhist traditions. It is helpful however.
My own teacher was in continuous awareness since he was 14 years old,

This is right around Bar Mitzva age.  You don't think...?

a fact I just happened to stumble upon while paging through some
archives of the Library of Tibetan Works & Archives in Dharamsala which
delineated all his initiations and retreats undertaken. It was just a
mere landmark passed. No big deal, nothing to see here, keep moving...
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > > > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > > > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > > > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > > > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > > > > this belief system.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > > > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > > > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > > > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > > > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > > > > in scriptures.)
> > > > > 
> > > > > False dichotomy.
> > > > 
> > > > I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> > > > start the discussion.
> > > 
> > > As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
> > > because it leaves out a major perspective.
> > 
> > Thus the term "start".
> > 
> > > 
> > > >  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > > > > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > > > > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > > > > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > > > > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > > > > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > > > > along with standard psychotherapy.
> > > > 
> > 
> > > > So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> > > > are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> > > > people with psychotherapy training?
> > > 
> > > I haven't checked their credentials, Curtis. I got the
> > > impression at least some of them were trained in
> > > psychotherapy and licensed and have chosen to use this
> > > approach in their practice.
> > > 
> > > > I wonder about the ethics if the first
> > > 
> > > OMG, that is hilarious.
> > 
> > People whose trust by the public is based on their
> > credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> > authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> > no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> > violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> > How you find this funny is beyond me.
> 
> It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
> talking about.

Your point adds to the discussion which I appreciate.  The attitude that comes 
along with that addition, not so much.  Ignoring that...

For me the question does come down to ethics. And although you are focusing on 
the more freewheeling psychotherapy I was including all mental health 
professionals including psychiatrists.  Your point is that there is no legal 
oversight over psychotherapists and it is left up to them what is ethical.  
Point taken. I don't know which states would actually call a person out if they 
felt the practices had gotten too wacky or got complaints.  But again this is 
more of a legalistic side.  The boards only go so far to insure that a person 
had been properly licensed.  You seem to be equating ethics with enforceable 
legality.  I am not.  Someone may have the legal right to do something that is 
still unethical in my view.

For me, using a thoery that is as contradictory in its details from different 
sources would be unethical.  Vaj has made a case that someone could gain 
experiences from a person who themselves can show where they learned it seems 
like a step in the right direction.  I wonder about the actual exposure to 
"chakra thoery" of anyone combining it in their practice.  These are ethical 
questions that remain.

> 
> From an article on the standard of care in psychotherapy
> and counseling (be good to read the introduction too,
> but the quoted paragraphs are specifically relevant here):
> 
> -
> The standard of care is a particularly difficult
> issue in psychotherapy, as there are hundreds of 
> different orientations and approaches to treatment 
> (Lambert, 1991). Each is based on a different 
> theoretical orientation, a different methodology, 
> philosophy, belief system and even worldview. Beyond 
> the agreements of do not harm, and do not have sex 
> with current clients, and always respect clients' 
> dignity, autonomy and privacy, there is no consensus 
> on how to intervene, help or heal. For example there 
> is no one standard, or method or way for the 
> treatment of anxiety. Psychoanalysis, cognitive-
> behavioral, existential, biologically based 
> psychiatry, Gestalt and pastoral counseling all 
> define, explain and treat the anxiety in very 
> different terms. Not one of them will follow the 
> others' standards
> 
> The "respected minority" doctrine also applies to 
> new techniques, which as yet do not have well 
> established scientific or r

[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 2:32 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> > > 
> > > Well at least you got to use an "OMG". That must have been 
> > > satisfying for you.
> > 
> > I doubt it, dude. Seems like more of an addiction to me.
> > 
> > Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> > week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> > start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> > do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> > with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> > create a combative perspective.
> > 
> > What do you think...can she post anything this week
> > that *isn't* trying to start a fight?  :-)
> 
> TMers, esp. sidhas, tend to store energy in the two places 
> they shouldn't: the chest and the head. Either place will 
> create problems, but it also makes them imbalanced and 
> hypersensitive. Angry or emotional outbursts, having to 
> leave the room or avoiding certain circumstances and 
> situations are often symptoms of this underlying imbalance. 

Possibly. I thought it was just being a New Yorker, but you 
may be onto something. 

BTW, do you know the difference between an editor and God?

God doesn't think he's an editor.

:-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Card -- The Saga Of Biorn

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> A wonderful 7-minute film done by The Animation Project
> in Denmark, this chronicles the efforts of the great
> warrior Biorn to die a noble warrior's death and get 
> into Valhalla. Funny, well-done, and with a moral:
> watch out for Biôrn-agains when picking people to save.
> 

http://www.scandinavianaggression.com/centrum/2011/04/the-saga-of-biorn.html


It just goes to show that noone really knows what Wotan, the God of Gods, the 
Greatest of the Great, has in store for you in the end ! 

Great film, thanks for posting this.

All glory to Wotan !

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:54 AM, tartbrain wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 11:06 PM, tartbrain wrote:
>> 
>>> Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology 
>>> as a hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These 
>>> hurdles seem more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does this 
>>> list mean CC? (And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is the 
>>> epitome of duality. Self and other.)  
>> 
>> 
>> No it does not mean CC.
>> 
> 
> OK. but most if not all of these seem quite relevant traps for CC. The two 
> starred ones are iffy and may be more non-dual / BCish.
> 
> If Awareness is trapped  by the eight non-starred ones, CC will not be 
> established. Its seems like saying that the trap of not being able to read is 
> a trap for gaining a PhD. That is true. However, its a much more relevant 
> trap for not passing first grade.


It very likely would be a dharma cage for CC, but CC is not considered a form 
of enlightenment in Buddhist traditions. It is helpful however. My own teacher 
was in continuous awareness since he was 14 years old, a fact I just happened 
to stumble upon while paging through some archives of the Library of Tibetan 
Works & Archives in Dharamsala which delineated all his initiations and 
retreats undertaken. It was just a mere landmark passed. No big deal, nothing 
to see here, keep moving...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 2:32 AM, turquoiseb wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
>> 
>> Well at least you got to use an "OMG". That must have been 
>> satisfying for you.
> 
> I doubt it, dude. Seems like more of an addiction to me.
> 
> Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
> week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
> start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
> do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
> with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
> create a combative perspective.
> 
> What do you think...can she post anything this week
> that *isn't* trying to start a fight?  :-)


TMers, esp. sidhas, tend to store energy in the two places they shouldn't: the 
chest and the head. Either place will create problems, but it also makes them 
imbalanced and hypersensitive. Angry or emotional outbursts, having to leave 
the room or avoiding certain circumstances and situations are often symptoms of 
this underlying imbalance. Part of the problem is they will also tend to gloss 
over such things as "unstressing" and thus miss the underlying problem via 
their ignorance of their own condition.

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Card -- The Saga Of Biorn

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> A wonderful 7-minute film done by The Animation Project
> in Denmark, this chronicles the efforts of the great
> warrior Biorn to die a noble warrior's death and get 
> into Valhalla. Funny, well-done, and with a moral:
> watch out for Biôrn-agains when picking people to save.
> 

http://www.scandinavianaggression.com/centrum/2011/04/the-saga-of-biorn.html

What a great little film with a depressing end.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Gmail Motion

[seventhray1]

Funny Saturday morning story


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu927_ul_X0
>
> Watched this video today and decided to download Gmail
> Motion and try it out. Neat, but it's still got some
> bugs...or as Google would say, "undocumented features."
>
> I had Gmail Motion open on my laptop while I was watch-
> ing Eva Green in a few of the STARZ-censored outtakes
> from "Camelot," which caused me to...uh...spring a woodie.
>
> I looked at my laptop and Gmail had interpreted that
> gesture and opened a New Mail window, filled in Eva's
> email address, and supplied a slightly pornographic
> template letter to her. The motion tracking even seemed
> to detect what parts of her I was watching most, because
> it referenced them in the template. TMI. I went back to
> regular Gmail. :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 1, 2011, at 11:06 PM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> > Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology 
> > as a hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These 
> > hurdles seem more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does this 
> > list mean CC? (And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is the 
> > epitome of duality. Self and other.)  
> 
> 
> No it does not mean CC.
>

OK. but most if not all of these seem quite relevant traps for CC. The two 
starred ones are iffy and may be more non-dual / BCish.

If Awareness is trapped  by the eight non-starred ones, CC will not be 
established. Its seems like saying that the trap of not being able to read is a 
trap for gaining a PhD. That is true. However, its a much more relevant trap 
for not passing first grade.
  

1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
* 4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
*6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
characteristics:
7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true
nature;
8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
9. The trap of meditation on `voidness', as futile as throwing
a stone in the dark;
10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
the key points.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Gmail Motion

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
"
> > 
> > I had Gmail Motion open on my laptop while I was watch-
> > ing Eva Green in a few of the STARZ-censored outtakes
> > from "Camelot," which caused me to...uh...spring a woodie.
> > 

Is that non-duality trap #43?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Yifu wrote:

> Vetting by resume can be helpful, but the bottom line: direct experience. 
> Vaj's family judged the book by the cover and thus missed out on something; a 
> frequent happenstance among intellectual elites who fail to take the plunge.  
> The Skeptic Michael Shermer is a typical example, although he did have some 
> experience as an Evangelical Christian before becoming a athiest.


They realized he was a conman, long before most did.

I'd say they were pretty insightful.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 11:37 PM, seventhray1 wrote:

> Warning:  Grammatically Challenged Reply:
> 
> I kind of get the impression that you are describing a very linear process.
> 
For me it would be more like an experiential lab that a teacher went through, 
using themselves as the experiment and the experimenter. They learn by living 
it and then share. It's not a living tradition if awakening isn't passed on.
>   And my experience on what I would call the "spiritual journey" has been 
> anything but.  And the one thing I don't, or won't do is doubt my experience.
> 

For me, discrimination is key, as self-deception and ego expansion are so 
common. It's so common to project the most exalted beliefs onto the most 
inconsequential experiences. That is, sadly, just human nature.
>   I don't care if I'm stuck in some pseudo/shallow samadhi during meditation, 
> or if I am stuck on some relative plane with little chance of progressing in 
> my outer life.  I am enjoying the ride, and I try to live in the present.  I 
> trust my experience, and it has been my teacher.
> 

I trust my experience some of the time and other times I do not. The path if 
anything has shown how the ego works.
>   Whether I have a formal teacher doesn't matter to me.  Sometimes I get the 
> impression that the credentials of your teachers mean more than the 
> experiences you might have. 
> 

We were discussing teachers. I just won't tolerate phonies or businessmen 
disguised as gurus anymore. Of course experience and the hundreds of 
realizations one will have are very important, self deception (other than 
learning what it is and how it operates) isn't that important, or blabbing 
about them out of context. That's been the crux of my own training.
> What I would never do is try to pick apart my experinece and determine if the 
> faculty of intuition that has been the foremost principle for me is based on 
> the highest teaching, or something lesser.  On the other hand, whatever you 
> are doing seems to work for you.
> 
> And I guess you must have taken a pretty big bite out of the TM apple because 
> if you would have just looked at it, and walked away, I don't  think you 
> would be such a heavy poster on this site.  Having said that, I mostly enjoy 
> your insights.  But you seem to take a more formal, or academic approach 
> which doesn't really appeal to me.
> 
> 

Compared to my fellow practitioners, some of who are actual academics or 
scholars, I'm not much so. From what I can tell I'm a typical married tantric 
in a lot of ways. But I am informed. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 11:06 PM, tartbrain wrote:

> Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology as 
> a hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These hurdles 
> seem more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does this list mean 
> CC? (And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is the epitome of 
> duality. Self and other.)  


No it does not mean CC.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > > > this belief system.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > > > in scriptures.)
> > > > 
> > > > False dichotomy.
> > > 
> > > I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> > > start the discussion.
> > 
> > As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
> > because it leaves out a major perspective.
> 
> Thus the term "start".
> 
> > 
> > >  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > > > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > > > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > > > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > > > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > > > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > > > along with standard psychotherapy.
> > > 
> 
> > > So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> > > are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> > > people with psychotherapy training?
> > 
> > I haven't checked their credentials, Curtis. I got the
> > impression at least some of them were trained in
> > psychotherapy and licensed and have chosen to use this
> > approach in their practice.
> > 
> > > I wonder about the ethics if the first
> > 
> > OMG, that is hilarious.
> 
> People whose trust by the public is based on their credentials certified by 
> the state as a mental health authority adding in a field of speculation that 
> has no oversight or even standard definitions is a violation of the ethical 
> trust their position holds.  How you find this funny is beyond me.
> 
> > 
> > > and the training basis for the second.
> > > 
> > > > The two systems are seen as complementary, in other words.
> > > > The chakra experiences are assumed to be very real but can
> > > > be signs of mental disorders if they're causing distress,
> > > > but also of spiritual progress if they're not.
> > > 
> > > I can understand that some people may believe this.  I am
> > > not sure they are speaking with the full authority of the
> > > people who license mental health professionals.
> > 
> > As is this.
> > 
> >   And how
> > > does a person know that they are dealing with an expert
> > > in the area of "chakras"?  There is no standard of
> > > knowledge to use as a reference.
> > > 
> > > So I don't see how this solves the issues I brought up.
> > 
> > I don't believe I suggested that it "solves" anything.
> > Please don't put words in my mouth.
> 
> Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> 
> Well at least you got to use an "OMG". That must have been satisfying for you.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   We are still left winging it with an area that seems to have 
> > profound consequences in mental health.
> > > 
> > > Do you have a person who from your search seems to represent the 
> > needed knowledge in both areas that you think would inspire 
> > confidence?  I don't doubt that a search will lead to plenty of 
> > people making such claims. How could we evaluate such claims of 
> > this specialized knowledge?
> >
>

Curtis,
Word of mouth can work.

Acupuncture, network-chiropractic, cranial-sacral are three
credentialed disciplines that deal with the subtle energies and might 
be helpful to meditators having troubles with their subtle systems.
These disciplines certainly are about the subtle system and are progressed from 
faith-healing to the point where they are offered in hospitals, get doctor's 
referral and some insurance coverage now.  

Is work in process.
It seems chakras are coming.  Trivedi and John Douglas are both
getting themselves studied to the end of showing people
like you who are poor in experience with it and slow to accept that there is a 
reality there which other people do experience.

This evidently is work in progress within science. 
People certainly are using chakra energy work with good result.
There is a reality to that.  Word-of-mouth as, "subtle energy wor

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[WillyTex]

Buck:
> ...ad hominid pickering between these 
> alt.meditation freaks who have come 
> over and piled on.
>
Just shoot me, it's all my fault. They followed 
me over here to continue their bickering and ad
hominids. One guy from alt.m.t tried to post on
alt.buddha.short.fat.guy! Can you believe that?

Subject: Re: The Heart of the Master
From: zenworm
Newsgroups: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, 
alt.zen
Date: March 31, 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3o4h6sa

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[WillyTex]

So, it's all about Judy.

turquoiseb:
> ...the fascination of mature adults with 
> decades of spiritual life, a few of the 
> 64 posts they made during the first 30 
> hours of this FFL posting week, during 
> which they were indulging in a bit of a 
> "feeding frenzy" by dissing other FFL 
> posters, all of whom are coincidentally 
> often described by Judy Stein as "TM
> critics"...

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[WillyTex]

> > It's been rather interesting observing the 
> > McRishi Mahesh, whom the Shankaracharya of 
> > the south observed had a busy supermarket 
> > mind with no silence...
> > 
Ravi Yogi:
> Go back to your discourses on Parama Vakra 
> Gita...
> 
It is very doubtful that Vaj got an audience 
with the Shankaracharya of the South. 

But in fact, the Sringeri Shankaracharya seems 
to approve of the work that was being done by 
MMY and Swami Shantanand of Jyotie Matha! 

Apparenty Paul van Oyen went to see Sringeri
Shankaracharya and actually met him in person. 
Paul posted this report in the Kosmopolis 
Newsletter in April - August 2000:

Dear readers, 

As you know Dorine and I have had the grace 
bestowed upon us of an audience with HH Shrî 
Bhâratî Tîrtha, Shankarâcârya of Shringeri 
Matha. Kosmopolis is presenting herewith to 
its readers the report of this visit... 

With best wishes, 
Paul G. van Oyen 

Shri Bharati Tirtha: 

"He also emphatically confirmed that in 
his opinion - and in the opinion of Shringeri 
Matha - Shrî Shantânanda Sarasvatî had been 
the lawful and respected Pîthapati of 
Jyotirmath. In their view Shrî Shantânanda 
Sarasvatî had been a disciple of Shrî 
Shantânanda Sarasvatî, maybe even a rather 
disobedient and naughty disciple. 

In a later conversation with another member 
of the Shringeri Matha staff we were 
reminded of the fact that when Shrî 
Svarûpânanda was challenging the position of 
Shrî Shantânanda as Pîthapati of Jyotir Matha 
the then Shankarâcârya of Shringeri (Shrî 
Vidyatîrtha Svamijî) had offered to anoint 
Svarûpânanda as Shankarâcârya of Dvaraka when 
that seat fell vacant. 

The one condition was that he would drop his 
claim for Jyotir Matha. This was agreed and 
Svarûpânanda was anointed as Pîthapati of 
Dvâraka Matha. However when the ceremony was 
over Svarûpânanda refused to honour his 
commitment and did not step down as claimant 
to the Jyotir Matha seat." 

[FairfieldLife] A Spring walk leads to a magical book recommendation

[turquoiseb]

It's a wonderfully warm (20 C, 68 F) Spring day here, so I decided to
take a walk. I wasn't particularly seeking anything on my walk or going
anywhere in particular, just walking. And appreciating the scenery, of
course. It's a sunny Spring Saturday, one of the first we've had, and so
everyone is out struttin' their stuff and trying to catch the eye of the
other sex. It's like someone set off a pheromone bomb. :-)

Then for some reason one of the guys who walked by reminded me of a
former roommate, back when I had just walked away from the TMO. And that
got me thinking about Doug Henning. My roommate was a silkscreen artist,
and made costumes for Doug's stage and TV shows, as a result he would
come over to our apartment from time to time. He was a really nice guy,
and I have nothing but fond memories of him. Even though he didn't know
me and our third roommate very well, and even though we were both TM
apostates and he was still On The Program, he was "just Doug" with us.
He'd do close-up magic for us in the living room, and would occasionally
invite us to the Magic Castle. It's a club for private magicians in a
mansion overlooking L.A., and at the time was not open to the public. To
get in you had to be invited by a performing magician who was a member.

The Magic Castle was just fuckin' NEAT. I don't know if I've ever been
in a more wonderful house of magic, and I've been to Robert Houdin's
house and museum in France, and it's pretty fuckin' neat, too. The place
was decorated in magic props and paraphernalia and posters. Oh, the
posters.

So I'm walking along, thinking about Doug and the Magic Castle and those
lovely posters, when I discover that there is a used book sale going on
in my village. This does not happen every Saturday, so I stopped to
peruse some of the booths. And there in one of them, leaping out at me
from the table, was a book called "100 Years Of Magic Posters," with one
of the posters I'd just been remembering on the cover. I picked it up,
thumbed through it, and found that the poster on the last page was for
Doug's The Magic Show. Sold.

And it's wonderful. I highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in
magic or in art. But it's not cheap. I paid only 25 Euros for it, but a
search on Amazon tells me that I stole it at that price. Full color and
black and white posters of magicians like Houdini, Adelaide Herrman,
Harry Kellar, Thurston, Blackstone, The Amazing Randi and, of course,
Doug. Some samples below, if they paste in successfully:

  [100 YEARS OF MAGIC POSTERS - Reynolds 1976 1st Ed.]

  [100 YEARS OF MAGIC POSTERS - Reynolds 1976 1st Ed.]

  [Magic Show cover art]

[FairfieldLife] Mike Ragogna interview with Bruce Cockburn

[turquoiseb]

OK, this post is mainly for the Bruce Cockburn fans here. Mike Ragogna
of Huffpost asks just the right questions and gets some fascinating
answers, in the process revealing a lot about the genesis of many of the
songs on Bruce's new album, and some from the past like "Wondering Where
The Lions Are" and "Lovers In A Dangerous Time." One of the reasons I
like Bruce so much is that his songs don't ever sound "composed" to me,
in the way that some songwriters' songs feel like they just sat down and
said, "OK, today I'm going to try to write something profound." Bruce's
songs are just an extension of his life, and his life is an extension of
being a spiritual loner trying to forge his own path through life
without the crutch of dogma. I can identify. Listen to the new album
here:

http://www.truenorthrecords.com/Albums.php?album_id=721


A Conversation with Bruce Cockburn

Mike Ragogna: Your new release, Small Source Of Comfort, puts your album
count at over 30, right?

Bruce Cockburn: I believe the official count of this one is number 31.

MR: Nice. What went into recording Small Source Of Comfort that was
different than the previous 30?

BC: Well, every album is the product of its own  thing. This album is
the product of its own time and place, in a way,  and the product of the
time between now and when I recorded the last  studio album, which was
about 5 or 6 years ago. There was a live album  in that time that did
have one new song on it, but all of these are  songs that have been sort
of building up inside that period of time. And  I don't know if it's
different from all of my other albums, but one  thing I feel about it is
it's more of a return to the "folkier" sound of  the early to mid '70s,
and if you categorize my albums, it's more like  the '80s or '90s stuff
that I've done.

MR: Let's go into "Iris Of The World," which says, "I've mostly dodged
the dogmas of what life is all about." Have you?

BC: Well... I certainly try. (laughs) Well, it's a  complicated thing to
express in regular language outside of a song. I do  feel a
disinclination to be embroiled in dogma. I've flirted with it, 
certainly, in times. For instance, when I first started calling myself a
Christian in the early '70s. I wasn't sure exactly what that meant at 
the time, so I went with the people who claimed they did, and that 
involved some dogma. But I got disenchanted with that pretty quickly, 
and my approach to Christianity remained somewhat outside the pale. At 
this point, I'm not even sure that I call myself a Christian anymore, 
but I don't take back any of what I said or experienced during that 
time. And my relationship with the divine and the cosmos is of paramount
importance in my life. I think that shows up in my songs the '70s 
through the '80s.

MR: In "Call Me Rose," you reincarnate Richard Nixon. Why would anyone
do such a thing?

BC: Lord, preserve us! (laughs) I really don't have a  good explanation
for how that song came into being. I woke up one  morning with the song
fully written in my head, just the lyrics; the  music took a bit longer.
But there was a whole set of words, and I  thought "Where is this coming
from?" I really don't have the answer. It  did sort of happen when this
previous Bush Administration was trying to  rehabilitate the image of
Richard Nixon. I specifically remember there  being a campaign in the
press, and you heard pundits making  announcements to the effect that
"Richard Nixon was the greatest  President that the United States had
ever had," and about how he was  misunderstood. And what was odd was
that after a month or so, it just  stopped completely. What that
suggested to me was that the American  public just wasn't buying it at
all, and that they just gave up spending  money on it, which was
wonderful, actually. So, I suppose, somewhere in  the song, there is the
notion of speculating about what the actual  rehabilitation of Richard
Nixon would look like -- not just his image in  the press, but his
"self," his soul, and there he is in the song being  reincarnated as a
single mom living in the projects.

MR: What fit justice.

BC: (laughs) It seems like justice! But he's still  Richard Nixon
because at the end of the song, he's saying "Maybe the  memoir will
sell..."

MR: And there's "Driving Away," which I can  personally relate to. I
think everyone has had the impulse to just jump  into the car and drive
away.

BC: That song was actually co-written with Annabelle  Chvostek, who is a
young Canadian songwriter who was formerly a member  of a group called
The Wailin' Jennys that some people in the States may  be familiar with.
A couple of years ago, she went out on her own and at  one point got in
touch with me and asked if I would be interested in  writing some songs
together. I thought, "Actually, yes! I would,"  because, first of all, I
knew she was good, and because I was wondering  what I was going to do
next, so it seemed

[FairfieldLife] Adam's boy-toy, closet hetero? :D

[cardemaister]

Adam Lambert's (former?) boy-toy, Mr. Sauli Koskinen and Ms. Katri Utula:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=121825757893778&set=a.106787966064224.10464.106782479398106&theater

[FairfieldLife] Re: Gmail Motion

[turquoiseb]

A couple of followup videos, which should be of interest 
to the Scientific Newagers amongst us, who have felt 
constrained and limited for years at having to use only 
their fingertips to express themselves electronically. 

In the first, Lorraine Klayman, M.Sc., a researcher from
Nevada Polytechnic College, explains how traditional 
keyboarding stops the energy flow at the elbows, and how
Gmail Motion allows you to communicate with the world
using the beauty and physicality of your whole body:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWobby0MDw

In the second, Dennis Tooley, Ph.D., from the California
Center for Kenisics and Paralanguage, explains some of
the challenges involved in inventing a physical para-
language with which to write emails. Being given to the
occasional use of emoticons myself, I look forward to
being able to just draw them in midair, instead of 
clumsily typing :, then -, then ). This technology 
makes the keyboard SO passé.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rJRhR_VMYQ

I'm really interested in seeing how this breakthrough
technology is going to handle cognitive dissonance. For
example, what if one of the Three Goons is using it to
compose an email to Fairfield Life? In print, their words
say that they're not angry or upset at the people they 
are attempting to demonize. But their *body language*
may say another thing entirely. How is Gmail Motion going
to handle the disparity between one of them typing "I am
not the least bit angry" with its camera image of them
with angry red faces, shaking their fists at the screen?
Which will win? It's the classic clash of subjective 
perception vs. objective reality.

I just love it when cutting-edge technology like this
allows us to explore the cutting edge of human emotion
and what it is to be truly enlightened.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu927_ul_X0
> 
> Watched this video today and decided to download Gmail
> Motion and try it out. Neat, but it's still got some
> bugs...or as Google would say, "undocumented features."
> 
> I had Gmail Motion open on my laptop while I was watch-
> ing Eva Green in a few of the STARZ-censored outtakes
> from "Camelot," which caused me to...uh...spring a woodie.
> 
> I looked at my laptop and Gmail had interpreted that
> gesture and opened a New Mail window, filled in Eva's
> email address, and supplied a slightly pornographic
> template letter to her. The motion tracking even seemed
> to detect what parts of her I was watching most, because
> it referenced them in the template. TMI. I went back to 
> regular Gmail. :-)