date:20050131

Yes, I just learned from Kenneth that OSX has built in Fax software. I 
tried faxing his e mail message to myself, and it worked fine.  I have 
yet to try scanning a doc to my desktop, or what ever, and sending it 
as a fax. Perhaps tomorrow.

Thanks for the help ...
Dean
On Jan 31, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Crystal Premo wrote:
Does one's computer boast a faxing program?  If so, you can scan your 
document, then choose the faxing program as the printer.  The faxing 
program will begin a routine that will allow you to fax your document 
over the phone.  Of course, said faxing program must be configured to 
your modem.


Crystal Premo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


From: "Dean M. Estabrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
To: Finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] OT
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:27:06 -0800
Is there a way to use one's computer to send a fax, even if one's 
printer does not boast such a function, but does scan.  I'm on a 
iMac, OSX 10.3.2  Epson CX 6400,  using Comcast High Speed Internet.

Thanks,
Dean
I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged 
that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations 
of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire 
heritage  from  our childrenÂs curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our childrenâs curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT

Hey, many thanks. It worked!  Now, can I receive fax's in the same way?
Dean
On Jan 31, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 31 Jan 2005, at 8:49 PM, Kenneth Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes indeed, Dean.
Google on "Fax service provider via internet"
No need.
Dean, fax software is built into OS X 10.3 (by the way, speaking of 
upgrades, you *really* need to upgrade to 10.3.7!  Maintenance OS 
upgrades are important!  Choose "Software Update" from the Apple menu 
-- you probably have over 100 MB worth of updates you need to install. 
 But I digress )

Dean, you said you are using broadband.  However, faxing requires you 
to hook up a phone cord to your iMac's modem and to a wall phone jack. 
 (This is presuming you have an active land-line phone in your 
residence.)

Then it's a simple matter of choosing "Print."  See that "Fax..." 
button next to the "Save as PDF" button?

The rest ought to be self-explanatory.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] OT

2005-01-31 Thread Crystal Premo

Does one's computer boast a faxing program?  If so, you can scan your 
document, then choose the faxing program as the printer.  The faxing program 
will begin a routine that will allow you to fax your document over the 
phone.  Of course, said faxing program must be configured to your modem.


Crystal Premo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


From: "Dean M. Estabrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
To: Finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] OT
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:27:06 -0800
Is there a way to use one's computer to send a fax, even if one's printer 
does not boast such a function, but does scan.  I'm on a iMac, OSX 10.3.2  
Epson CX 6400,  using Comcast High Speed Internet.

Thanks,
Dean
I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I have 
been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there 
are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by 
excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  from  our 
childrens curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT

On 31 Jan 2005, at 8:49 PM, Kenneth Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes indeed, Dean.
Google on "Fax service provider via internet"
No need.
Dean, fax software is built into OS X 10.3 (by the way, speaking of 
upgrades, you *really* need to upgrade to 10.3.7!  Maintenance OS 
upgrades are important!  Choose "Software Update" from the Apple menu 
-- you probably have over 100 MB worth of updates you need to install.  
But I digress )

Dean, you said you are using broadband.  However, faxing requires you 
to hook up a phone cord to your iMac's modem and to a wall phone jack.  
(This is presuming you have an active land-line phone in your 
residence.)

Then it's a simple matter of choosing "Print."  See that "Fax..." 
button next to the "Save as PDF" button?

The rest ought to be self-explanatory.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

At 09:38 PM 1/31/05 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>John Ciari talked marvelously about the "ghosts of
>words"

Ciardi. John Ciardi. Sheesh. Fingers.


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

(Continued)

At 11:16 AM 1/31/05 -0800, you wrote:
>   So that out of that roomfulla chimps all sitting at their MacFinaleK5s

This chimp uses a PC, thanks. :)

>-- one of them might accidentally compose the Mahler 2nd all over 
>again and claim it as his own -- simply because he didn't know Gus 
>beat him to it?Isn't it somewhat better to have at least a simian 
>knowledge of what came before in order that he might actually build 
>upon it?  And if you follow my logic, how can those poor damned 
>apes aurally get to know the Mahler unless someone plays it!?   

Just to reiterate Part I by responding to the above: My call is for
performers and presenters (and composer collaborators) to change their
behavior by x-treme tearing down of the museum culture of classical nonpop.

>That we must ignore Bach, Shakespeare, da Vinci, Wagner, Ibsen, 
>Monet, Dostoyevsky, Proust, Mozart,  Christopher Marlowe...oh heck 
>with just Chris; one imagines you're advocating dumping even Philip 
>Marlowe -- and if I were then to continue my hobbling sidestep from the 
>'fine' arts to the 'not-so-fine' arts: does this mean that in le monde selon 
>Dennis I would have to give up my beloved Buster Keaton and Max 
>Linder and (horrors) even the Brothers Marx?

Now this question is even more interesting, if somewhat off the track when
trying to correct for a museum model run amok (now there's a strange image).

So you mention Bach, Shakespeare, da Vinci, Wagner, Ibsen, Monet,
Dostoyevsky, Proust, Mozart, and the two Marlowes. Assuming we're talking
about people with an interest in the arts and literature, how often do they
re-read those works? How many actually got through them in the first place?
Isn't it one of the supposed 'private shames' that few people actually read
Dostoyevsky or Proust, or care to see Ibsen and or more than a very few
re-re-re-performed plays of Shakespeare? How many have DaVinci prints
hanging? Okay, maybe a pretty Monet or two (or likely Manet) as decoration.
And Marlowe the first?

What do people, intelligent people, really read? Books in their field, and
contemporary fiction. They watch the new plays (unless Ibsen's all they
get). Assuming they don't hand big-eyed puppies or Elvis-on-velvet, then
chances are it's work of friends, their own work, with the occasional
classic prints.

The people *in* these fields, however, have (one hopes) a greater scope of
reading and performance and art that informs what they do. There is a great
deal to be said for scope, whether a novelist or playwright or composer.
And for history -- John Ciari talked marvelously about the "ghosts of
words" and how a knowledge of etymology and orthographic history (whether
studied or intuited) was the sign of a truly remarkable poet. It's not the
existence of history that's the problem (at least for me).

However -- and I sometimes wish I could hold up a sign in big fat letters
-- music is exceptional in its 20th century nearly complete capitulation to
the museum model, a model that gives little evidence of change when we run
into the 21st century. You need not give up Groucho, Chico, Harpo or Zeppo,
nor Moe, Larry and Curly, nor Manny, Moe and Jack because *no cultural
shift is required* in comedy, as contemporary comedy is not pounded down in
the way new nonpop is cubesteaked into a tiny unpalatable slime stuck to
the otherwise luscious musical menus we're presented with at the concert
hall door.

>That instead I would ONLY have those works created within some shadowy 
>timeline beginning in the extremely recent past and ending only -- tomorrow?
>That if I wanted to see a film comedy I'd have to choose between Adam
Sandler 
>and Jim Carrey?

I'd prefer Dave Chappelle, Rita Rudner, and Chris Rock, but I take your
point. Remember that I'm proposing a proportional answer -- a mirror of the
situation in the early 1990s, *before* the new Golden Age of Music began
(and that's what I believe it is, to make a sideways mention to Dean
Estabrook, who just posed a related question).

>As your original premise stated, the quality of a work is completely, 
>totally irrelevant; the only importance is its chronology relative to the
audience's 
>own.Remember: your original premise -- which you haven't truly otherwise 
>refined for us in specifics -- was updated by you to include only those
works 
>created within one's own lifetime, so at least I could throw in the later
film works 
>of Billy Wilder but couldn't keep, for example, any of the classic Preston
Sturges.

No, no, I really *didn't* update it ... remember I ended with "Nah" (and I
changed my mind before I sent that email -- I had said "come of age").
Yeah, yeah, it's not a formula, as much fun as it is to find out who might
qualify and who would be banned in some musico-totalitarian state of the
avant-garbage. (Thanks, everybody. Damn sad that Richard Strauss didn't die
until after I was born.)

Consider what such an applied rule might mean, though. Right now,
programmers are root

Re: [Finale] OT

Kenneth:
Many thanks. A-googling I shall go.
Dean
On Jan 31, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kenneth Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes indeed, Dean.
Google on "Fax service provider via internet" will produce thousands of
references; but to start, try this one called
"FAQ: How can I send a fax from the Internet?":  
http://www.savetz.com/fax/

Kenneth Kuhlmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Dean M. Estabrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: [Finale] OT
Is there a way to use one's computer to send a fax, even if one's
printer does not boast such a function, but does scan.  I'm on a iMac,
OSX 10.3.2  Epson CX 6400,  using Comcast High Speed Internet.
Thanks,
Dean
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT

2005-01-31 Thread Kenneth Kuhlmann

Yes indeed, Dean.

Google on "Fax service provider via internet" will produce thousands of
references; but to start, try this one called
"FAQ: How can I send a fax from the Internet?":  http://www.savetz.com/fax/

Kenneth Kuhlmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Dean M. Estabrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: [Finale] OT


Is there a way to use one's computer to send a fax, even if one's
printer does not boast such a function, but does scan.  I'm on a iMac,
OSX 10.3.2  Epson CX 6400,  using Comcast High Speed Internet.

Thanks,

Dean


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff - Live music

At 07:48 PM 1/31/05 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Given that you seem to place ZERO value on the contributions of live 
>musicians to performance, it's not surprising that you think this.

David,

I place enormous value on live performance -- when it's needed, when it
isn't mere reproduction, when it does something quantifiably different from
virtual versions, and when its use doesn't cause artistic damage. In this
discussion I didn't speak of synths or algorithms, for example, but rather
virtual ensembles -- which are played by musicians. And I spoke of
recordings -- which are made by musicians. And I spoke of definitive
versions of my music -- even if the musician who successfully and musically
cracks a new piece open is to my mind a miracle worker. These are separate
issues.

And at the same time, there is no doubt that during a critical period in
the artform, a majority of musicians worked against new nonpop by the
proportion of time, energy, practice, enthusiasm and understanding they
allocated to it, and the hostility they greeted it with. Those
circumstances have debilitated an entire generation of players in their
ability to make music out of new music. It is frankly not an accident that
younger performers returning to the music spurned by their fathers are now
making performances and recordings that reveal today what the composers
only imagined. It may be an unexceptional fact, but it not an excusable one.

However, there remain important solutions to be found. Among them, for
example, is not protesting what a virtual orchestra does well but rather
finding a solution as many family farmers did to survive -- find new crops
to grow. I live in farm country and know how hard it is. I live as a
composer and know how hard that is.

If you want to represent what I say in your response, I encourage you to
try to understand why I say what I say -- even if my words may parse badly
from time to time -- and not merely set up some Foxnewsistic
soundbite-strawman to pummel.

Dennis

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] No Sound

2005-01-31 Thread Kenneth Kuhlmann

Patricia,
It is a pleasure to contribute to this wonderful List.

Kenneth Kuhlmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Patricia Spedden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Finale] No Sound


> It works!  Apparently the channels settings weren't compatible.  We
> changed Send MIDI Values from "Only Channel 1" to "All MIDI channels",
> and it works.  Such a relief.  Thank you again for taking your time to
> help us (novices) put together these disparate pieces of equipment.
> 
> Patricia Spedden
> 

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT

Is there a way to use one's computer to send a fax, even if one's 
printer does not boast such a function, but does scan.  I'm on a iMac, 
OSX 10.3.2  Epson CX 6400,  using Comcast High Speed Internet.

Thanks,
Dean
I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

David's thought that we might be in the twilight of our art form, made 
me think of the Fin du siècle phenomenon. Is the recent end of the 20th 
Century abnormal, compared to the previous, say, four centuries? Was 
there any sense of culmination and delineation in any of the art forms? 
 Is there a sense of being on any sort of artistic springboard 
propelling us in a given direction for the coming century? I haven't  
really thought about it until just now, but off the top of my head, I 
don't think I discern the presence of said phenomenon.

Dean
On Jan 31, 2005, at 5:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005 at 23:20, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Omigawd, there's a giant leap between Dvorak and Stockhausen! And this
crawling thing has always troubled me. Nobody has to crawl through old
films to get to new films, old books to get to new books, old jazz to
get to new jazz, old dance to get to new dance, old plays to get to
new plays, old paintings to get to new paintings. The only artistic
field that has proselytized the crawling theory for the past century
has been classical nonpop. But I think you know my p.o.v. as we're
arguing about it over on O-list right now. :)
Your analogy points out *why* new music has problems: they lost their
audience.
The conventions of film are taught to everyone who watches TV, so
someone who'd never seen a single film (but who grew up on TV
programs) would have no difficulties understanding the conventions of
modern file precisely because they've already been tacitly trained in
them.
Certain kinds of "modern" music have received the same benefit,
because non-tonal music has been used for a long time in film, and
people respond to it. It's why Stravinsky's "Rite" is no longer
problematic for the ear of your ordinary consumer.
But a lot of new music that I encounter is incomprehensible to me on
first hearing. I don't say that to say it's incomprehensible music or
that there's something wrong with it. It's just to say that I don't
have the preparation to be able to absorb the music on first hearing.
I don't know how to choose between chicken and egg here. Personally,
I feel that composers would be better off writing music that people
are more able to comprehend on first hearing than in assuming that
people can just listen to the piece 10 times, until they begin to
comprehend it.
Obviously, both things have to happen -- even in the 1820s, an
Italian music lover returned to the publisher an edition of Mozart's
"Dissonant Quartet" because the music lover looked at the first few
measures and declared it filled with numerous engraving errors.
So, these things take time, yes. But we must recognize that the 1820s
Italian music lover was definitely in the minority at the time,
showing a very conservative ear.
In our times there's been a complete disconnect between composers and
audiences that wasn't caused by the content of the music being
written so much as by political stances that hardened before the
music was given a chance to be heard. That is, they closed their ears
before giving the music a chance.
Nonetheless, there was a time in the mid-century when many composers,
in my opinion, went wildly off track and abandoned even their willing
potential audiences. That has not been the case for an extremely long
time (at least 30 years now), but the audience for serious music in
the US (at least) has not returned. Other audiences may be coming to
the music, but the natural audience for serious music retains
(especially including conservatory-trained performers) a certain
degree of hostility to new music.
I'm not placing blame here -- indeed, I believe there's plenty to go
around, about equally between composers, critics, performers and
audiences. I'm just observing what seems to me to be a fact of modern
musical life.
And in the context of the aging audiences for traditional serious
music, I don't know what future there is for serious music at all,
especially when composers like Dennis express such hostility to
performers.
Each summer I work coaching young musicians and it seems to me that
very few of them are getting much in the way of real training in
making music. Indeed, I despair over the fact that most of them seem
to not even be all that excited about what they are doing in the
first place.
Maybe we are in the twilight of our art form.
I really don't know.
--
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  ou

Re: [Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

2005-01-31 Thread Jerry W. Kortge

I graduated from MTU in 1967 with a degree in Applied Physics.  Small world!
Regards.Jerry

>I googled "equal temperament hz", the first hit was
>
>http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
>
>and on that page is a link to:
>
>http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
>
>steve
>
>
>On Jan 31, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does anyone
>> know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out for you?
>> This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have Googled, but
>> without success.
>>
>> - Darcy
>> -
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Brooklyn, NY
>>
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>
>___
>Finale mailing list
>Finale@shsu.edu
>http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

On 31 Jan 2005 at 12:07, Robert Patterson wrote:

> Darcy James Argue wrote:
> 
>  > This is a huge mistake.  
>  >
>  > Again, that's likely to be a mistake.  Why don't you at least wait
>  > for user reports from people using your hardware setup?
> 
> It is *never* a mistake to leave a computer system alone if it is
> stable and you are happy with how it works. At most you can say I may
> be missing out on some features I might like. 

Hear, hear!

This is something that too few people seem to recognize. 

A stable, working system that has no problems for the user is a 
system that ought to be left alone.

On the other hand, if the user of an early version of OS X is having 
performance problems, well, the situation already does not fit 
Robert's formulation, and may very well justify an upgrade.

But I think most people are too willing to believe that upgrades are 
magic that can fix every problem they have, when, in reality, they 
too often just magnify existing problems.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Ego sum necrosone

Can one imagine the world needing a pejorative term for someone who 
still has the temerity  to profess pleasure upon hearing Bach or 
Beethoven?  Paint me ein Alter Mann.

Dean
On Jan 31, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Ken Moore wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis B-K
writes:
I'll soften it: You're a necrosone if you listen to composers who died
before you were born. So that means Webern, Bartok, and Sibelius are 
all
out for me!
Damn! that loses me Elgar and Delius, and Debussy and Janacek by years.
I can keep Holst (just), Berg, Ravel and Gershwin, though, and of 
course
Webern, Schoenberg and Bartok!!! (:-)

All things considered, I shall just have to put up with the label.
--
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want 
to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the 
journey it has provided  my daughter and hundreds of other students I 
have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that 
there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of 
humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage  
from  our children’s curricula.

Dean M. Estabrook
Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

On 30 Jan 2005 at 23:20, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:

> Omigawd, there's a giant leap between Dvorak and Stockhausen! And this
> crawling thing has always troubled me. Nobody has to crawl through old
> films to get to new films, old books to get to new books, old jazz to
> get to new jazz, old dance to get to new dance, old plays to get to
> new plays, old paintings to get to new paintings. The only artistic
> field that has proselytized the crawling theory for the past century
> has been classical nonpop. But I think you know my p.o.v. as we're
> arguing about it over on O-list right now. :)

Your analogy points out *why* new music has problems: they lost their 
audience.

The conventions of film are taught to everyone who watches TV, so 
someone who'd never seen a single film (but who grew up on TV 
programs) would have no difficulties understanding the conventions of 
modern file precisely because they've already been tacitly trained in 
them.

Certain kinds of "modern" music have received the same benefit, 
because non-tonal music has been used for a long time in film, and 
people respond to it. It's why Stravinsky's "Rite" is no longer 
problematic for the ear of your ordinary consumer.

But a lot of new music that I encounter is incomprehensible to me on 
first hearing. I don't say that to say it's incomprehensible music or 
that there's something wrong with it. It's just to say that I don't 
have the preparation to be able to absorb the music on first hearing. 
I don't know how to choose between chicken and egg here. Personally, 
I feel that composers would be better off writing music that people 
are more able to comprehend on first hearing than in assuming that 
people can just listen to the piece 10 times, until they begin to 
comprehend it. 

Obviously, both things have to happen -- even in the 1820s, an 
Italian music lover returned to the publisher an edition of Mozart's 
"Dissonant Quartet" because the music lover looked at the first few 
measures and declared it filled with numerous engraving errors.

So, these things take time, yes. But we must recognize that the 1820s 
Italian music lover was definitely in the minority at the time, 
showing a very conservative ear.

In our times there's been a complete disconnect between composers and 
audiences that wasn't caused by the content of the music being 
written so much as by political stances that hardened before the 
music was given a chance to be heard. That is, they closed their ears 
before giving the music a chance.

Nonetheless, there was a time in the mid-century when many composers, 
in my opinion, went wildly off track and abandoned even their willing 
potential audiences. That has not been the case for an extremely long 
time (at least 30 years now), but the audience for serious music in 
the US (at least) has not returned. Other audiences may be coming to 
the music, but the natural audience for serious music retains 
(especially including conservatory-trained performers) a certain 
degree of hostility to new music.

I'm not placing blame here -- indeed, I believe there's plenty to go 
around, about equally between composers, critics, performers and 
audiences. I'm just observing what seems to me to be a fact of modern 
musical life.

And in the context of the aging audiences for traditional serious 
music, I don't know what future there is for serious music at all, 
especially when composers like Dennis express such hostility to 
performers.

Each summer I work coaching young musicians and it seems to me that 
very few of them are getting much in the way of real training in 
making music. Indeed, I despair over the fact that most of them seem 
to not even be all that excited about what they are doing in the 
first place.

Maybe we are in the twilight of our art form.

I really don't know.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff - Live music

On 30 Jan 2005 at 22:23, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:

> At 09:37 PM 1/30/05 -0500, Raymond Horton wrote:
> >musicians are fighting an INFERIOR 
> >product
> 
> Can you quantify its inferiority? And how will your quantification
> stand up in another few years?
> 
> I think that if inferiority is your argument, it won't be long before
> you'll be losing it (if not already).
> 
> There's a cultural argument to make (the same one used to save family
> farms), but not much of a practical one, I'm afraid -- even today. The
> practical aspects of this argument are pretty much over. All you've
> got left is culture or nostalgia. (I'd go for culture because I'm not
> much for nostalgia.)

Given that you seem to place ZERO value on the contributions of live 
musicians to performance, it's not surprising that you think this.

I, for one, think it unlikely that a synthesizer will *ever* be able 
to "swing" like a live musician -- and I mean that term to apply in 
classical as well as non-classical repertories. I think that the 
rhythmic subtlety that a fine human musician brings to performance 
can simply never be reduced to an algorithm that can be reproduced 
electronically.

Will most people hear it?

Explicitly, no.

But my bet is that they could still tell that something was not quite 
right, and that the live musician was in some unquantifiable way (to 
them) better.

But you don't seem to place any value whatsoever on "swing" whereas I 
consider it to be the most important thing a musician brings to 
performance.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] RAM, vm, and FinMac

On 30 Jan 2005 at 21:59, A-NO-NE Music wrote:

> I just bought G5 Dual-2.5, which comes with only 512MB.  I bought 1GB
> to make it 1.5GB (still not enough, but I am running out of my
> budget!).
> 
> Just for my curiosity, I compared FinMac's vm amount before/after
> adding 1GB.  The result was very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> vm is bigger after I added 1GB even though %MEM is way smaller as
> expected, now why is that?  The every test was done after powercycle,
> of course.

A good VM should be prepared to swap out all the active memory if 
necessary. Thus, the swap file needs to be larger the more RAM you 
have.

I actually keep my swap file at a minimum size of 2X my physical RAM 
which is 768MBs). This means that the file space is already 
allocated, so that when swapping needs to happen, all the VM needs to 
do is write to a pre-existing file. If the swap file were not pre-
allocated, the file space would then have to be allocated before the 
swap could take place (assuming the already allocated file space were 
not sufficient for the swap to take place).

Keep in mind, also, that for safety's sake, the RAM can't be cleared 
until the VM has verified successful write of the data pages to the 
swap file. And when data is being swapped from disk to RAM, it can't 
be cleared from the swap file until there's been verification that 
the RAM has been successfully populated with the pages swapped in.

That means that to swap a 100MB process, you need 100MBs of RAM 
allocated to it overlapping a time period when you also need 100MBs 
of swap file allocated on disk. That means you need 200MBs total of 
RAM + swap space for short periods of time during the actual swap.

Of course, all of this is highly dependent on the design of a 
particular VM. In the old days of the Win3.1x VM, performance 
*improved* with a smaller swap file once RAM exceeded 16MBs. This was 
because the VM was very inefficient in managing large swap files and 
the management of a 16MB RAM + 32MB swap file slowed the system down 
more than the swapping required in a 16MB RAM + 4MB swap file. It was 
counterintuitive, and also contradicted the VM's default settings 
(which was always to allocate 2X the RAM to the swap file, up to a 
certain percentage of free disk space).

The Win95 VM system was vastly improved, and it worked better with 
default settings with the exception of setting a minimum swap file 
size. The Win NT VM seems very similar in terms of operation -- you 
just don't have to worry about it, other than, perhaps, choosing as I 
do to set a minimum swap file size (I also tend to split the swap 
file between drives where possible, keeping part on the same drive as 
the OS and most of it on a second drive; one gets a performance 
benefit from this if the two drives are physically different drives, 
but one also benefits from keeping lots of free space on the OS 
partition when the drives are actual volumes in a single physical 
disk drive).

But I'm not surprised about what you report. It seems perfectly 
sensible.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] No Sound

2005-01-31 Thread Patricia Spedden

It works!  Apparently the channels settings weren't compatible.  We
changed Send MIDI Values from "Only Channel 1" to "All MIDI channels",
and it works.  Such a relief.  Thank you again for taking your time to
help us (novices) put together these disparate pieces of equipment.

Patricia Spedden

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Kenneth Kuhlmann
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:21 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] No Sound

Patricia,

My immediate reaction to your problem description is that the MIDI setup
of
the
Proformance module at college differs from the setup on the tone
generator
which you use at home in some way related to either MIDI channel numbers
or
program numbers.  Simply put, the equipment at home responds to the note
on
/ off messages etc on the MIDI channels generated by Finale playback
whereas
the Proformance module at college ignores messages on the same
channel(s).

I assume that the Finale setup remains the same in each situation.  You
do
not give enough detail about equipmet connections and setups to enable a
good diagnosis and I am not familiar with any of the equipment you might
be
using other than Finale, but I would look at the following matters to
ensure
that both tone generators are setup compatibly:

1)Does the Proformance respond to the program numbers generated by
Finale playback?  I understand it is limited to 16 piano sounds; what
program
numbers does it respond to?  I.e. is the instrument assignment (=program
number
assignment) in your Finale file compatible with the Proformance's
capabilites?
Therefore make sure that the MIDI program numbers generated by Finale
are
suitable.

2)Make sure that Finale Playback is generating messages on MIDI
channels
accessible by the Proformance module.  Because it is a piano module, I
assume that it is necessary for Finale to generate messages on a single
channel only.  If Finale is generating on several channels then the
situation can be very problematical.  Your home equipment might be set
up to
respond on all channels generated in your Finale setup, whereas the
Proformance may not respond to the same channels.

3)So, is the Proformance responding to the to the same MIDI channels
as
your home sound module?  Check the MIDI mode in which each generator is
operating, considering in particular Mode 1 ("Omni Mode" = Omni On/Poly)
vs
Mode 3 ("Poly Mode" = Omni Off/Poly).  In a studio situation with other
synthesizers available, it is quite likely that a module like the
Proformance would be setup to operate in Poly Mode; whereas a single
synthesizer at home might default to Omni Mode for convenience.

4)If the Proformance is in Poly Mode and set to channel X, make sure
that Finale playback generates on channel X also.  If your home
generator is
also in Poly Mode you will need to change its channel  number to X to
match,
but you need not change it if it is in Omni Mode.

5)If the Proformance is in Omni Mode and the program numbers are
compatible then I can only suggest that the Proformance is not receiving
any
note messages and you should look at what might be happening at other
points
on the signal path between your laptop and the Proformance module.

Kenneth Kuhlmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Patricia Spedden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:48 PM
Subject: [Finale] No Sound


> I teach at a college where we have purchased a number of Fastlane MIDI
interfaces.  They are used mainly with Macs.
>
>
>
> However, I have WinXP laptop that I'm trying to use at the college for
a
lengthy, urgent project with the following equipment:
>
> * Fastlane interface
> * Fatar Studio 90 master controller with no internal sounds
> * Proformance/1 16-bit piano module
> * Amplified speakers
> * Finale 2005
>
> This all works fine at home with a Roland MPU64 USB interface which
I've
updated with an XP driver.
>
>
>
> I'd prefer to be able to use the MOTU with Finale at the college (so I
don't have to disconnect everything daily), but can get no sound through
the
Proformance module using the MOTU.  The MOTU in/out lights come on
appropriately, but there's no sound.  We have tried every possible
configuration with no luck.
>
>
>
> Could anyone tell us how to make this work as soon as possible?
>
>
>
> (Dr.) Patricia Spedden
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Ego sum necrosone

2005-01-31 Thread Owain Sutton


Ken Moore wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis B-K
writes:
I'll soften it: You're a necrosone if you listen to composers who died
before you were born. So that means Webern, Bartok, and Sibelius are all
out for me!

Damn! that loses me Elgar and Delius, and Debussy and Janacek by years.
I can keep Holst (just), Berg, Ravel and Gershwin, though, and of course
Webern, Schoenberg and Bartok!!! (:-)
All things considered, I shall just have to put up with the label.

I get to keep Copland but lose Britten, keep Messiaen but lose 
Varese...can't say I'm keen on this definition ;)
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Ego sum necrosone

> >I'll soften it: You're a necrosone if you listen to composers who
> >died before you were born. So that means Webern, Bartok, and
> >Sibelius are all out for me!
> 
> Damn! that loses me Elgar and Delius, and Debussy and Janacek by
> years. I can keep Holst (just), Berg, Ravel and Gershwin, though, and
> of course Webern, Schoenberg and Bartok!!! (:-)

Yay! I keep Jimi Hendrix :) What a diverse list.

-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

-
Finale IRC channel
server: irc.chatspike.net
port: 6667
channel: #Finale
-

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 18, Issue 42

2005-01-31 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David Bailey
writes:
>The term DWEM actually refers to the composers ranging from the Baroque 
>through the Romantic era -- it rarely refers to people such as Berio or 
>Messiaen.

Well, you could have fooled me.  I thought it meant Dead White European
Male.  Berio and Messiaen are dead, AFAIK, and were European and male.
They probably weren't white, more likely pale brown or pink, and they
certainly weren't dead white (hardly any fit person is), but they would
have been described as White, as opposed to Oriental or African, by lots
of people (especially the ones who _are_ opposed to Orientals and
Africans, and care about these things).

I am pleased that your definition excludes Binchois, Palestrina,
Victoria, Carver, Tallis, Byrd, Gibbons, and the Gabrielis.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Ego sum necrosone

2005-01-31 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis B-K
writes:
>I'll soften it: You're a necrosone if you listen to composers who died
>before you were born. So that means Webern, Bartok, and Sibelius are all
>out for me!

Damn! that loses me Elgar and Delius, and Debussy and Janacek by years.
I can keep Holst (just), Berg, Ravel and Gershwin, though, and of course
Webern, Schoenberg and Bartok!!! (:-)

All things considered, I shall just have to put up with the label.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] NAMM report from Kelly's Music & Computers

2005-01-31 Thread Brad Beyenhof

>From :

NAMM: Notation Software Merging with Sequencing?
 Every year, I look forward to seeing some really innovative ideas at NAMM. A 
few years back it was Live. Despite all of the great sounding soft synths, and 
the much anticipated announcement of Garritan's new editions of GPO, the 
highlight of the NAMM show for me was Geniesoft's upcoming version of 
Scorewriter and Overutre.

Not a lot of attention has been paid to the notation market in the past while, 
with many feeling that aside from incremental upgrades, there wasn't a lot of 
room for innovation. Geniesoft has everyone paying attention with their 
announcement of support for VST plug-ins in the upcoming release of
Version 4 of
the venerable notation programs Scorewriter and Overture.

In addition to allowing you to playback your score with any VST instruments or 
effects, Geniesoft has also integrated a host of MIDI editing features 
previously only found in sequencing programs. A strip chart and piano roll can 
be super-imposed on the staff, allowing you to individually edit the playback 
parameters of any note or series of notes. This can be delinked from the 
notation, so that you can adjust the beginning or ending of a note without 
affecting the notation. If you wish, the notation can be rescored based on your 
changed to the playback in an instant.

Expect to see support for basic digital audio features in future versions, 
bridging the gap between the current notation vs. multi-track recording 
situation. Perhaps in the near future you won't need to use two programs?
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

2005-01-31 Thread Steve Gibons

And I bow to you, grasshopper-san
On Jan 31, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Thanks, Steve.
I bow before your superior Google kung-fu.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 31 Jan 2005, at 6:08 PM, Steve Gibons wrote:
I googled "equal temperament hz", the first hit was
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
and on that page is a link to:
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
steve
On Jan 31, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi,
I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does 
anyone know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out 
for you?  This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have 
Googled, but without success.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] RAM, vm, and FinMac

2005-01-31 Thread laloba2


[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.30 / 01:44 AM wrote:
Think of it as "I'm going to allocate an hour
tomorrow morning to run errands"  I have assigned myself (much as the
OS assigns virtual memory to a process or app which is what VSize
represents in OS X) a specific amount of time to do these errands...I
may not use the whole time but this is what I have have set aside
based on what I think will be needed.
Right, so I'd think
"now I have cloned myself (more physical RAM),
"I can do the errands in half of the time I used to allocate",
no?
You can do errands in half the time on the clockbut total time 
will be the same.  Whether you have one person running an errand in 
an hour, or you have two people that can get the job done in 1/2 
hour..the total time spent running the errands is still an hour...(if 
you had to pay 1 person for an hour's worth of work...or two people 
for a half hour's worth of work...you'd still be paying for an hour 
of work.)

The way I understand it is that even if you have more RAM that you 
have now put into the machine, the OS won't necessarily give more RAM 
to a given application or process.  It will still allocate only what 
the application or process needs.  It won't speed up how fast a task 
is completed because the machine will only run as fast as it can run 
under optimal circumstances (unless you add a faster processor too 
:-).)  But it will seem that the machine is running faster with more 
RAM more of the time...because it won't  slow down when the system 
starts running out of free physical memory.

Here is another good article...it is an older article based on OS 
10.0 but the theory is basically the same.



By the way, I love how you explain things, not to mention you have solved
many of my long-time Finale puzzles for me before.  You must be a good
teacher :-)
Oh Hiro, these are very kind words...thank you.  I sometimes feel 
that I'm not able to explain things clearly and I get frustrated so 
this makes me happy.  I have coached swimming and taught skiing in 
the past but that is the only real teaching experience I have.  But I 
loved those jobs very much!

I do know that you are a very accomplished teacher!!  And you have 
added so much to this list for me too!

Thank you,
-Karen


--
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

2005-01-31 Thread laloba2

Hi Darcy,
Is this what you are looking for??

-K
Hi,
I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does 
anyone know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out 
for you?  This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have 
Googled, but without success.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

--
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

Thanks, Steve.
I bow before your superior Google kung-fu.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 31 Jan 2005, at 6:08 PM, Steve Gibons wrote:
I googled "equal temperament hz", the first hit was
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
and on that page is a link to:
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
steve
On Jan 31, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi,
I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does anyone 
know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out for you? 
 This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have Googled, but 
without success.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

2005-01-31 Thread Steve Gibons

I googled "equal temperament hz", the first hit was
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
and on that page is a link to:
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
steve
On Jan 31, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi,
I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does anyone 
know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out for you?  
This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have Googled, but 
without success.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

2005-01-31 Thread Christopher Smith

On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 03:47  PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
(big snip)

(Yes, you can tell me to stop at any time.)
Dennis
I, for one, wouldn't dream of it!
Man, you talk great!
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT: Pitch frequency table

Hi,
I know how to calculate individual pitch frequencies, but does anyone 
know of a table on a web page somewhere that lays it all out for you?  
This would be for A4=440, equal temperament.  I have Googled, but 
without success.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

I'll look into that possibility. Didn't think of FinaleScript, and I am 
not really familiar with it except for printing booklets.

But it may be a good opportunity to learn something about it.
Johannes
d. collins wrote:
Johannes Gebauer écrit:
Yes, but:
Firstly, you cannot copy from one stave layer 1 to another stave layer 
2. Secondly, there is a lot of this stuff, and I was hoping for some 
kind of automatic way to do this.

Anyway, I will be doing it manually, by first copying the relevant 
sections from vln II, then move them to layer 2, then copy the rest, 
then sort out the stems where necessary.

This could probably be done much faster with Finalescript, providing you 
don't have to start learning how to use it from scratch. Have a look at 
the scripts that are already there, and you'll see precisely this kind 
of operation. I do a lot of automated things with Finalescript, but it 
does take some time to get the hang of it.

Dennis


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

No, the problem is not copying to _two_ staves, that's easy (and I don't 
need any extra editing on those parts anyway). The problem was combining 
two staves intelligently into two layers on a third staff.

I was looking for something like TGTools smart part extraction, only the 
other way round.

Never mind, I am doing it by hand (which I know how to to easily, no 
extra working staves needed at all).

Thanks,
Johannes
dhbailey wrote:
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in 
the first violin part?

Johannes
I think he was trying to suggest that as a way of preparing the parts 
for copying to the flute line.

Personally, I'd add two scratch staves, copy the first and second violin 
parts to that, then do all the editing on those copies and copy from 
there to the flute staff and then delete the two extra staves.

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Yes, that's the way I am doing it, but I was hoping for an easier solution.
Johannes
Michael Withers wrote:
Apologies. Should have read the post better! You don't want it in the
violin part, if I understand correctly you actually want violin 1 and 2
combined in the flute part... So my first step should have been: copy
violin 1 to the flute part. Then you can cut the violin 2 part down to
only the bars that ar independent and drop the layer 2 version of that
onto the new flute part (using 'Show active layer only' to avoid
overwriting the layer 1).
Hope that's clearer
Michael
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Johannes Gebauer
Sent: 31 January 2005 20:12
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?
Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in the 
first violin part?

Johannes
Michael Withers wrote:
When I've had to do this I found the easiest is to make the whole of 
the 2nd violin part Layer 2. Then go through manually and delete the 
bars where they are in unison. Finally select the whole of the second 
violin part (which should now only contain the bars that are 
different) and drop it onto the first violin stave (I think you also 
need to use 'Show active layer only').

If there is an easier way then I'd love to hear about it.
Hope that helps
Michael Withers
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of dhbailey
Sent: 31 January 2005 19:27
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

Is there a quick way to do this:
I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the 
time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer,
when

there are two parts they should be on two layers).
Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
Johannes

imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking
for, quite likely.
I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those 
sections
where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts
play.


--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Phil Daley wrote:
At 1/31/2005 01:38 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>A historical precedent that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned here so
>far is sound film.
>The introduction of movie soundtracks in 1929 put thousands of pit
>musicians out of work almost overnight, just months before the start of
>the Great Depression.
Especially piano players ;-)
And, pipe organs.  Theater organs ended up on the trash heap.  
(Hopefully, not the organists.)

RBH
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

At 01:06 PM 1/31/05 -0800, Lon Price wrote:
>"Texas Tenor" without the 
>vowels.

Helluva way to sing.

Dennis





___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT Buying sheet music

I just bought Emmanuel Pahud's Fauré Flute Fantaisie CD, and was very
inspired.  The printed music I studied with when I was in College was
printed in Japan, and it doesn't look that authentic, and would like to
purchase a real stuff once for all.

Kinda embarrassing question but I'd appreciate any recommendation what I
should be looking for and if possible to find a good place to purchase online.

P.S.
Lon Price / 05.1.31 / 04:06 PM wrote:
>When I was in college the first time, at North Texas State, Gunther 
>Schuller spent a week there as composer in residence.  He gave a 
>lecture in which he stated, "All tonal music is dead.  It is impossible 
>to write original music in the tonal realm.  All tonal music has 
>already been written.  Serial composition is the only answer."  This 
>was in 1965,

Interesting.  I played for him about 15 years ago, and his composition
was very tonal for that concert.  He was a really intimidating conductor,
tho :-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff





Oh, my!  A dead giveaway!


Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

  
  
  
  Yeah, I'm afraid it was mine; I
hereby donate it to the world at large -- just credit the original
coiner, or better yet: don't...
   
  ...please realize that the
definition will be as follows in the next edition of the unabridged
Websters-Marsden Dictionary:
   
  
Nec-ro-phil-har-mon-ic:
(n)  Any fully-mechanized, non-human music box (see: orchestrion,
panharmonicon) which, with its inability to micro-shade or act or
otherwise interact in a sensitive, human manner, creates music which
may be described as 'dead.'   (See also: 'A-tisket, a-tasket, a
green-and-yellow casket.) 
  
   
  Wow.   Imagine the irony of 'Tod und
Verklarung' played on one of those...
   
   
  Glibly, 
   
  Les
   
  Les Marsden
Founding Music Director and Conductor, 
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
   
  http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
  http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Ken Moore 
To:
finale@shsu.edu

Sent:
Monday, January 31, 2005 2:18 AM
Subject:
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff


In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Carl Dersham writes:
>"Necrophilharmonic."  I like that.  Mind if I drop that word to
some of 
>my horror writing friends?

Not my coining.  I got it from another posting on the list.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want
to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
  
  

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
  




___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

>Andrew Stiller wrote:
>A historical precedent that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned here 
so far is sound film.
> The introduction of movie soundtracks in 1929 put thousands of pit 
musicians out of work almost overnight, just months before the start of 
the Great Depression.
>
> The Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra (and probably others as well, but 
I know the BPO's history particularly well) got its start from a bunch 
of unemployed musicians getting together in 1930 just to preserve their 
chops.
>
>Comments?

--
Very interesting, but not the same.  

Live background music with no dialogue replaced by recorded dialogue and 
recorded background music.  Progress.   Fighting it, like Chaplin did, 
was fruitless. 

One of our problems is that, when some cheap producer tries to replace 
live music, the audience assumes that is the only way.  In the ballet 
here, that does more and more of it's productions each year with 
recordings and less with live orchestra, the audience doesn't complain 
because they think it must be the only way it can be done.  The 
newspaper critic doesn't mention that the orchestra is off that week, 
that we left a hole in our schedule and now have a hole in our budget, 
because he doesn't want to be a bad guy and hurt the ballet company.  
The only time the audience complained was the one year when the ballet 
cut us out of the annual Nutcracker production, because they remember 
that from year to year.   (And this is not just about the poor ballet 
company.  It's about making the big for-profit hospital company whose 
president is receiving a big award tonight for his support of the arts, 
put out a little more money to hire the orchestra all year long.) 

Same way with the cheesy small combos in Vegas.  The people think that 
is the best that can be done.  They don't know any better.  So when the 
opportunity comes for us to educate the public to ask at the Broadway 
ticket office "How many musicians in the orchestra?" before they plunk 
down their $100 a ticket, we must do it, absolutely.

RBH

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread Lon Price

On Jan 31, 2005, at 7:27 AM, John Howell wrote:
At 1:08 PM -0800 1/30/05, Lon Price wrote:
The problem starts at the college level.  Performance majors are so 
busy learning the established literature that they have no time to 
devote to a new student work, or at least that was my experience when 
I studied composition at USC.  If the composition was technically 
difficult, requiring a lot of rehearsal time, which a lot of new 
music tends to be, no one seemed interested in investing the time and 
effort it would take to learn it.  It seemed to me that composition 
students tended to "dumb down" their music in order to get it played. 
 I refused to do that, so the only piece of mine that got a 
performance was the aforementioned orchestral piece.
So writing music that is accessible and playable is dumbing down?
I've also heard that called pandering to one's audience.
 Which means that complexity and difficulty equals quality?
No, but neither does it mean complex and difficult equals bad, just 
because it's hard to play and hard for the general public to accept.

  Forgive me, but that does not compute.  I don't know your work, Lon, 
and it may be terrific, but aren't you describing everything that went 
wrong during the 20th century in the shrinking world of "art" music, 
where most composers have to have day jobs?
When I was in college the first time, at North Texas State, Gunther 
Schuller spent a week there as composer in residence.  He gave a 
lecture in which he stated, "All tonal music is dead.  It is impossible 
to write original music in the tonal realm.  All tonal music has 
already been written.  Serial composition is the only answer."  This 
was in 1965, and the jazz composers in the audience nearly rioted, 
since most jazz has always been tonal.  Even the Avant-Garde jazz of 
Coltrane, Shepp, Ayler, et al, usually at least had a tonal center.  We 
put on a concert that week, and it was the only time that jazz players 
and what we "jazzers" called "legit" players shared the stage.  I 
played an alto sax solo on a twelve-tone big band piece title "Volume 
Twelve."  My solo was completely free-form--no key, no tone center, no 
strict tempo.  Some of Schuller's Third Stream music was performed as 
well, all of it twelve-tone.  It was pretty funny hearing the "legit" 
players trying to swing.

When I enrolled at USC in 1993, my background was as a jazz and rhythm 
& blues tenor sax player.  (My screen name is "Texas Tenor" without the 
vowels.)  I had no experience composing "legit," or what most of you 
guys like to call "Art Music."  (I don't like that term, because it 
implies that other music genres are not art.  But that's another can of 
worms.)  As a listener, I was drawn to the Twentieth Century composers: 
Stravinsky, Bartok, Messiaen, Schoenberg, Berg, etc.  None of these 
composers wrote music that was particularly easy to play, and their 
music is not featured in concert programs nearly as often as the DWEM 
club.  But that is where I'm coming from as a LISTENER, so it was 
fairly logical to go there as a composer.  Of course the composers that 
I listed wrote in a pretty wide variety of styles, but I think it's 
safe to say that all of them wrote music that I would find hard to just 
sightread flawlessly on the first reading (or second, or third).  So my 
"serious" compositions tend to be atonal, and not always easy to play.

  Find a market.  Compose for that market.  Or don't; it's your choice
Well, I live in Hollywood, so I know all about that.  I could have gone 
the smooth jazz route.  I could write and play that music in my sleep.  
But that's not what I'm into, as a player or a composer.  I've written 
some jazz tunes that I think are fairly accessable.  But I was under 
the impression that the college experience was all about 
experimentation, pushing the envelope, trying new things.  It certainly 
was that way back in the '60s at North Texas.  My belief is that one 
should write what he or she feels, not influenced by any particular 
market, and then hope that there's a market for it.


Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

[All this is going to be streamed, conversational response, so please
pardon any typos. I don't use a spellchecker other than my eyeballs!]

At 11:16 AM 1/31/05 -0800, you wrote:
>Let's address your premises in reverse order: first, your "don't crawl,
fly first" theory:   

>Well...if we don't know where we came from, how can we know where we're
going?

I don't accept the premise. We *never* know where we're going, and Wagner
proved that brilliantly.

>It's hard to tell if you're being facetious, and particularly in 
>light of the interesting ideas you promoted and then self-deflated 
>in your online piece - are you really serious?

Did I deflate my ideas? I think I might have softened a few things, since
it was deliberately meant to provoke a reaction from the mainstream nonpop
community. And darned if by 1998, through several of us working diligently,
politically *and* confrontationally (good cop/bad cop composers) every
Vermont group that played classical nonpop was also including new nonpop in
the presentation formula. But maybe that's not what you're asking.

First, you probably gotta know me. I am very serious about the promotion of
new music, and have given thousands of hours to it during my lifetime. I
estimate that our radio show/website alone has consumed 10,000 hours of my
volunteer work, not to mention festivals, ensembles, concerts, etc., not a
one of which has ever broken even, and most of which have been paid
out-of-pocket. Every dollar that doesn't get spent on essentials goes to
this effort, which is probably why at age 55 my bank account is pretty much
empty. That should reveal I'm also not very cautious. The other side of me
looks at everything for its enjoyment value and humor. The whole field of
new nonpop is rife with opportunities to prod and puncture and have a good
yukk -- not least of which my own work. I mean, the very idea of people
making noises with their mouths and blowing into plumbing and scratching
hair back and forth! It's ludicrous -- as are the pretentions of most
artists. Almost anybody who's visited our home has experienced the absurd
laugh riot here.

My point is that if I get too puffed up with a cause, I have to sit back
and laugh at myself. And because I've always been poor, I *can* laugh with
almost no risk that my offense will somehow make my economic life worse
(though it might make people reluctant to play my music).

>Are you now reverting back to your earlier position that we MUST 
>throw out everyone and everything which has come before us; that 
>we must have enforced ignorance of all precedent work?

Who is "we"? My manifesto (and for those interested, this 13-year old essay
is here: http://maltedmedia.com/books/papers/s5-necro.html) comes out of
the Laszlo Toth School of Art, and organization several of us founded in
honor of the guy who smashed the Pieta with a hammer. There is a time when
the only way to address severe imbalance is by some sort of provocative,
even revolutionary, behavior. That's not very popular at the moment, unless
it's the US invading some small country that can't defend itself.

"The ignorance of all precedent work" is entirely valid from both a
revolutionary standpoint for today, and from a standpoint of bringing new
audiences to the artform. I have several times referred to the "museum
culture", and classical nonpop suffers worst of all from that. It's the
mistaken idea that somehow knowing what came before is valuable for the
uninitiated, the lay nonpop and potential nonpop listener ... as opposed to
a slow drag that pulled them increasingly into the past with no hope of
recovering the present again.

Let me talk about that drag. (You're gonna hate me for making all this even
longer!) When music was essentially a live event, it proceeded through and
ended. Repetition was needed, and pieces could grow in length to support
increasingly intricate ideas as well as additional inclusions, such as
picture-painting and calculated emotional content. And right then -- right
then! -- recording technology appeared. And you can draw graphs of some
interesting consequences.

One might be a reduction in attention span to music with the promotion of
the single-side song. That's not the graph that interests me, although it
has significance (viz. O-list discussion).

What I'm more interested in are the investment consequences -- *audience*
consequences. A more significant mass market was born, and along with it, a
distribution of music to the home where before it was dependent on concerts
or sheet music (or for a while, piano rolls). The ease and relatively low
cost of hearing and *having* 'real' music (professional, not homemade) was
a social shift. The relatively low cost, though, was still a cost. And if
there's anything entertainment marketers learned over the years, it was
that people like what they know. Consumers are not risk takers, which is
why reviews and word of mouth and advertising are important. Give people
more of the same, and t

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in the 
first violin part?

Johannes
I think he was trying to suggest that as a way of preparing the parts 
for copying to the flute line.

Personally, I'd add two scratch staves, copy the first and second violin 
parts to that, then do all the editing on those copies and copy from 
there to the flute staff and then delete the two extra staves.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

2005-01-31 Thread Mariposa Symphony Orchestra




Hey!   I read your 
essay - -
 
Well, just send me an extra 180 words and 
we'll be even...
 
Les
 
Les MarsdenFounding Music Director 
and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa?  
Ah, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dennis 
  Bathory-Kitsz 
  To: finale@shsu.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:33 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The 
  good, the bad, and the difference?
  At 11:16 AM 1/31/05 -0800, you wrote:>Okay, Dennis -- 
  rack 'em up:Point 1: Your questions are 180 words longer than my 
  original essay.Point 2: You're really gonna make me go back and read it 
  all?Okay, more when I have a chance to re-paragraph the Marx Brothers 
  sectionbelow. :)D
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

2005-01-31 Thread Brad Beyenhof

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:12:07 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in the
> first violin part?

Well, a slightly modified version of what Michael wrote:

1) Copy the entire Vln1 staff to the Flute staff
2) Copy the entire Vln2 staff to an extra "working staff" created next
to the Flute staff
3) Change the working staff to be all in Layer 2
4) Clear all of the measures on the working staff that are identical
to the Flute staff
5) Copy the contents of the working staff into the Flute staff, and
delete the working staff

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
FinaleIRC (come chat!): http://finaleirc.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] Imploding music?

2005-01-31 Thread Michael Withers

Apologies. Should have read the post better! You don't want it in the
violin part, if I understand correctly you actually want violin 1 and 2
combined in the flute part... So my first step should have been: copy
violin 1 to the flute part. Then you can cut the violin 2 part down to
only the bars that ar independent and drop the layer 2 version of that
onto the new flute part (using 'Show active layer only' to avoid
overwriting the layer 1).

Hope that's clearer

Michael

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Johannes Gebauer
Sent: 31 January 2005 20:12
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?


Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in the 
first violin part?

Johannes

Michael Withers wrote:
> When I've had to do this I found the easiest is to make the whole of 
> the 2nd violin part Layer 2. Then go through manually and delete the 
> bars where they are in unison. Finally select the whole of the second 
> violin part (which should now only contain the bars that are 
> different) and drop it onto the first violin stave (I think you also 
> need to use 'Show active layer only').
> 
> If there is an easier way then I'd love to hear about it.
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> Michael Withers
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of dhbailey
> Sent: 31 January 2005 19:27
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?
> 
> 
> Johannes Gebauer wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there a quick way to do this:
>>I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the 
>>time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
>>different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
>>parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
>>multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer,
> 
> when
> 
>>there are two parts they should be on two layers).
>>
>>Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
>>
>>Johannes
> 
> 
> 
> imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking
> for, quite likely.
> 
> I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those 
> sections
> where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
> the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts
> play.
> 

-- 
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Not quite sure I follow: Why would I want the second violin part in the 
first violin part?

Johannes
Michael Withers wrote:
When I've had to do this I found the easiest is to make the whole of the
2nd violin part Layer 2. Then go through manually and delete the bars
where they are in unison. Finally select the whole of the second violin
part (which should now only contain the bars that are different) and
drop it onto the first violin stave (I think you also need to use 'Show
active layer only'). 

If there is an easier way then I'd love to hear about it.
Hope that helps
Michael Withers
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of dhbailey
Sent: 31 January 2005 19:27
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?
Johannes Gebauer wrote:

Is there a quick way to do this:
I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the
time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer,
when 

there are two parts they should be on two layers).
Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
Johannes

imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking 
for, quite likely.

I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those sections 
where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts
play.

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Owain Sutton wrote:
Can you not simply copy all of Violin 1 into layer 1, and only the 
relevant sections of Violin 2 into layer 2?
Yes, but:
Firstly, you cannot copy from one stave layer 1 to another stave layer 
2. Secondly, there is a lot of this stuff, and I was hoping for some 
kind of automatic way to do this.

Anyway, I will be doing it manually, by first copying the relevant 
sections from vln II, then move them to layer 2, then copy the rest, 
then sort out the stems where necessary.

Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] up grade advice

Andrew Stiller wrote:
Among the adverse effects is that on Finale: The program has actually 
gotten worse since 2K2 (wh. was the finest iteration of the program in 
its history), and almost all the deficiencies are due to the 
requirements of OSX. Press three keys to toggle scroll/page view? Give 
me a break!
That's definitely got nothing to do with Panther, except that the 
previously used keystroke for this (which I have forgotten) was one 
which is used in all applications in OS X for the same action (I think 
this was the reason).
Why MM decided to use such an bad keyboard command (it's worse on my 
keyboard: 4 keys needed, command-option-_shift_+accent key!) is a 
mystery to me, but don't blame Panther for decisions which MM made.

What else?
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] Imploding music?

2005-01-31 Thread Michael Withers

When I've had to do this I found the easiest is to make the whole of the
2nd violin part Layer 2. Then go through manually and delete the bars
where they are in unison. Finally select the whole of the second violin
part (which should now only contain the bars that are different) and
drop it onto the first violin stave (I think you also need to use 'Show
active layer only'). 

If there is an easier way then I'd love to hear about it.

Hope that helps

Michael Withers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of dhbailey
Sent: 31 January 2005 19:27
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Johannes Gebauer wrote:

> Is there a quick way to do this:
> I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the
> time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
> different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
> parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
> multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer,
when 
> there are two parts they should be on two layers).
> 
> Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
> 
> Johannes

imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking 
for, quite likely.

I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those sections 
where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts
play.

-- 
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

2005-01-31 Thread Owain Sutton

Can you not simply copy all of Violin 1 into layer 1, and only the 
relevant sections of Violin 2 into layer 2?


dhbailey wrote:
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Is there a quick way to do this:
I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the 
time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer, 
when there are two parts they should be on two layers).

Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
Johannes

imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking 
for, quite likely.

I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those sections 
where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts 
play.

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Andrew Stiller wrote:
[snip]
I will say, though, that prior to the 1960s there was a huge amount of 
Baroque music that had never received a modern performance, and whose 
creators were widely thought to be minor figures unworthy of extensive 
revival. Among these were Telemann and Zelenka.

Oh boy!  We only have to wait 250-300 years -- I'm excited!  :-)
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

At 11:16 AM 1/31/05 -0800, you wrote:
>Okay, Dennis -- rack 'em up:

Point 1: Your questions are 180 words longer than my original essay.
Point 2: You're really gonna make me go back and read it all?

Okay, more when I have a chance to re-paragraph the Marx Brothers section
below. :)

D


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

Simon Troup wrote:
I once heard a great comment about sailing that I think is analagous.
A superior sailor uses his superior judgement to avoid situations
that require his superior skill. The same is probably true of
computer professionals.

Is that supposed to be a big put down? Excuse me for chipping in!

I wouldn't take that as a put down.
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Imploding music?

Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Is there a quick way to do this:
I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the 
time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer, when 
there are two parts they should be on two layers).

Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
Johannes

imploding will give strange rhythms which won't be what you're looking 
for, quite likely.

I think you may have to do it manually, using layers for those sections 
where the parts differ.  Or you might consider keeping the layers for 
the entire part and showing stems up/down to guarantee that both parts play.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?

2005-01-31 Thread Mariposa Symphony Orchestra




Okay, Dennis -- rack 'em up:
 
Let's address your premises in reverse 
order: first, your "don't crawl, fly first" theory:   
 
Well...if we don't know where we came from, how 
can we know where we're going?   Yes, I can imagine your eyes 
rolling at that one but come now!   It's hard to tell if you're being 
facetious, and particularly in light of the interesting ideas you promoted and 
then self-deflated in your online piece - are you really serious?   
Are you now reverting back to your earlier position that we MUST throw 
out everyone and everything which has come before us; that we must have enforced 
ignorance of all precedent work?   So that out of that roomfulla 
chimps all sitting at their MacFinaleK5s -- one of them might accidentally 
compose the Mahler 2nd all over again and claim it as his own -- simply because 
he didn't know Gus beat him to it?Isn't it somewhat 
better to have at least a simian knowledge of what came before in 
order that he might actually build upon it?  And if you follow my 
logic, how can those poor damned apes aurally get to know the Mahler unless 
someone plays it!?   That we must ignore Bach, Shakespeare, da 
Vinci, Wagner, Ibsen, Monet, Dostoyevsky, Proust, Mozart,  Christopher 
Marlowe...oh heck with just Chris; one imagines you're advocating 
dumping even Philip Marlowe -- and if I were then to continue 
my hobbling sidestep from the 'fine' arts to the 'not-so-fine' arts: does this 
mean that in le monde selon Dennis I would have to give up my 
beloved Buster Keaton and Max Linder and (horrors) even the Brothers 
Marx?   That instead I would ONLY have those works created within some 
shadowy timeline beginning in the extremely recent past and ending only -- 
tomorrow?    That if I wanted to see a film comedy I'd have to 
choose between Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey?   As your original premise 
stated, the quality of a work is completely, totally irrelevant; the only 
importance is its chronology relative to the audience's own.   
 Remember: your original premise -- which you haven't truly otherwise 
refined for us in specifics -- was updated by you to include only those works 
created within one's own lifetime, so at least I could throw in the later film 
works of Billy Wilder but couldn't keep, for example, any of the classic Preston 
Sturges.    What a quandary!   Evaluate the good only 
based upon its age relative to that of the consumer; my 
(currently-)seven-year-old son can therefore never hope someday to (when he's a 
bloody ADULT of at least 30 if I have anything to say in the matter) revel in 
the bawdy glory of 'Blazing Saddles,' (which may or may not be a good thing, 
damn it) nor may he even see nor hear anything I, Daddy produced 
before his birth -- and he himself would jut make the cut there; if he had 
been born a few minutes earlier he wouldn't be allowed to regard himself in 
a mirror, but now we're getting a tad existential 
 
So -- let me get this straight: if the 
creator of a work is still alive -- or at least was alive when you were born 
-- that work is worthy and more meaningful to us than -- well, in a 
specific case: Sibelius, whom you related to us died before you were 
born.   I was seven months old when Sibelius died.  
  So he's not verboten to me, but is completely useless to 
you.   Am I interpreting you correctly?    Or were you 
then and still now being facetious merely for the sake of 
speciousness?   Please let me know because if I have you right, I'm 
going to have to do some serious culling of my wine cellar
 
I would never hope to close myself 
off to something based strictly upon age.   As I previously 
stated, I make no such parameter judgment -- as I also previously stated, I base 
my MSO programming inclusion upon factors both blithe and concrete; 
aesthetic and cost-responsible -- but also practical for my specific 
organization and its limitations.    And to play right into your 
waiting hands, Dennis, I'll confide a little secret: I really don't enjoy the 
Baroque as much as I do later periods with far more tonally and rhythmically 
complex language -- as well as challenging form and intellectual 
provocation.    But: there is a place, I feel, even for such 
older, 'simpler' music -- and so I program it; and you know what?   I 
find that in so doing, I learn and grow and enjoy and respect and sometimes, 
sometimeseven come to love works I've written off, simply because in 
studying them as a performer and not merely as a listener I begin to see worth 
beneath the surfaceand never so much more so than when I see the works of a 
later composer who clearly and intentionally built upon something which came 
before.     
 
Once all the practical criteria have been 
met, my kajillions of possible choices have been whittled down to a few hundred 
or thousand; as my conditions of operation change through the years (i.e. if I 
do get a reliable bassoonist or two -- and a larger stage allowing for more 
p

Re: [Finale] Fwd: Trombone problems

2005-01-31 Thread Don Hart

on 1/31/05 12:30 PM, Andrew Stiller at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Might be old news to some of you, but...
> 
> Washington D.C.-Each year thousands are people are killed, maimed or annoyed
> by trombones.. [snip]

Andrew,

I haven't had such a good laugh/cry in ages!  I guess I should forward this
to all my violist friends before they discover it on their own.

Don Hart

Former. I mean, recovering trombonist.

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread Phil Daley

At 1/31/2005 01:53 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>As for the larger question, I have no doubt that there is at least a
>significant amount of such. It all depends, though, on just where you
>set the bar for greatness--and that's a can of worms I'd just as soon
>not open.
I was a theory major, but took one composition course (taught by Charles 
Whittenburg) who IMHO thought he was far superior than my thinking.

I am curious, has anyone ever heard of him? (no UCONN students need respond ;-)
Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread Phil Daley

At 1/31/2005 01:38 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>A historical precedent that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned here so
>far is sound film.
>The introduction of movie soundtracks in 1929 put thousands of pit
>musicians out of work almost overnight, just months before the start of
>the Great Depression.
Especially piano players ;-)
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

2005-01-31 Thread Christopher Smith

On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 01:12  PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 31 Jan 2005, at 1:05 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
It is *never* a mistake to leave a system alone if you are happy with 
how it works.
Actually, I disagree.  I was happy with how Jaguar was working, but I 
was even happier after upgrading to Panther.


In this case, I agree, too. Panther fixed a bunch of things for me, 
including MIDI, Java, and I got a slight but noticeable speed boost.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

The problem starts at the college level.  Performance majors are so 
busy learning the established literature that they have no time to 
devote to a new student work, or at least that was my experience when 
I studied composition at USC.
My experience was otherwise, and I have observed that priorities at 
various music depts. depend on which branch of the discipline 
(performance, composition, history, education) dominates the 
department. At SUNY Buffalo, where I did my graduate work, composition 
completely dominated the program, and there was seldom any trouble 
finding volunteers to play new works. Why? Because a) recitals of new 
music were among the most frequent performance opportunities available, 
b) the performance faculty were by and large sympathetic to new music, 
and c) any performance majors interested only in the standard 
repertoire would find themselves looked down upon by large numbers of 
other students.

I wonder how much great music is out there, existing only on paper, 
that no one has ever heard.  Most of the music of Charles Ives comes 
to mind.  What if those scores had never been found?
Um, they were never lost. Ives was by no means an isolated figure, and 
his scores were never in any danger of oblivion.

As for the larger question, I have no doubt that there is at least a 
significant amount of such. It all depends, though, on just where you 
set the bar for greatness--and that's a can of worms I'd just as soon 
not open.

I will say, though, that prior to the 1960s there was a huge amount of 
Baroque music that had never received a modern performance, and whose 
creators were widely thought to be minor figures unworthy of extensive 
revival. Among these were Telemann and Zelenka.

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread Mariposa Symphony Orchestra




Yeah, I'm afraid it was mine; I hereby donate 
it to the world at large -- just credit the original coiner, or better yet: 
don't...
 
...please realize that the definition will be 
as follows in the next edition of the unabridged Websters-Marsden 
Dictionary:
 

  Nec-ro-phil-har-mon-ic: (n) 
   Any fully-mechanized, non-human music box (see: orchestrion, 
  panharmonicon) which, with its inability to micro-shade or act or otherwise 
  interact in a sensitive, human manner, creates music which may 
  be described as 'dead.'   (See also: 'A-tisket, a-tasket, 
  a green-and-yellow casket.) 
 
Wow.   Imagine the irony of 'Tod und 
Verklarung' played on one of those...
 
 
Glibly, 
 
Les
 
Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa 
Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ken 
  Moore 
  To: finale@shsu.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:18 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Finale] Garritan and other 
  stuff
  In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carl 
  Dersham writes:>"Necrophilharmonic."  I like that.  Mind if I 
  drop that word to some of >my horror writing friends?Not my 
  coining.  I got it from another posting on the list.-- Ken 
  Moore[EMAIL PROTECTED]Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/I 
  reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send 
  one___Finale mailing 
  listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

> I once heard a great comment about sailing that I think is analagous.
> A superior sailor uses his superior judgement to avoid situations
> that require his superior skill. The same is probably true of
> computer professionals.

Is that supposed to be a big put down? Excuse me for chipping in!
-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

-
Finale IRC channel
server: irc.chatspike.net
port: 6667
channel: #Finale
-

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

On 31 Jan 2005, at 1:30 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Getting back to iKey and Finale, I think iKey is a great example of 
what can happen if you are too eager to upgrade.
Well, yes.  I agree that I was stupid to upgrade to iKey 2.0.  I should 
have exercised more caution in that instance.  But extrapolating from 
that one instance to say that therefore, one should *never* upgrade 
one's OS, even after a wealth of positive reviews, benchmarks, 
bugfixes, etc., are available -- that seems like a bit of leap, to me.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

A historical precedent that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned here so 
far is sound film.
The introduction of movie soundtracks in 1929 put thousands of pit 
musicians out of work almost overnight, just months before the start of 
the Great Depression.

The Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra (and probably others as well, but I 
know the BPO's history particularly well) got its start from a bunch of 
unemployed musicians getting together in 1930 just to preserve their 
chops.

Comments?
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

Robert Patterson / 05.1.31 / 11:34 AM wrote:

>Bitter experience has taught me never to upgrade the OS (or anything 
>else) unless absolutely necessary.

I always install new OS on separate partition and migrate work load
slowly.  This is how I config:

Emergency boot volume becomes new OS playground.

>Frankly, I hate the Panther UI, especially as compared with 
>Jaguar.

This is probably because you are not used to it.  By the way, in our DAW
world, there is only one major hardware based platform, ProTools. 
Interestingly PT uses were the most who had terrible time moving to OSX.
 This is because PT is machine base.  You built a MIXPlus machine on
PPC9600, and you are stuck with it.  Poor PT users.  I have seen so many
PT users just can't deal with OSX, and they want to stay in the OS9 closet.

OSX is superior, safer, and evolving.  If you are in music biz, Jaguar AU
implementation might affect your work.  AU spec change alone worth Panther.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

Getting back to iKey and Finale, I think iKey is a great example of what
can happen if you are too eager to upgrade. MS Word is another. (I still
use MS Word 5.1 that I got in ca 1988. It works great even in Classic
and doesn't get in may way trying to do too much.)

Right now I've got iKey 1.0.7 doing everything I need it to. It even has
a feature that I don't remember from QK for OS9 which is to click
whereever the mouse happens to be. (I was able to use that to overcome a
missing feature in Mouseworks for OSX). I do miss being able to click on
a control by name or to click on it only if it isn't checked, etc. But
I'm really quite happy. Finale works, MIDI works, ProTools works,
Versavision screen rotation works. Why mess up a good thing?

When I was young I jumped at every upgrade. After being burned once too
often, I just don't do it any more. You can talk about this or that
upgrade being worth it, but I have a policy, and on balance I think my
policy is the right one.

I once heard a great comment about sailing that I think is analagous. A
superior sailor uses his superior judgement to avoid situations that
require his superior skill. The same is probably true of computer
professionals.

Simon Troup wrote:
It is *never* a mistake to leave a computer system alone if it is
stable and you are happy with how it works.

Yeah, that true too, we're all correct! It all really depends on your individual needs. I think you'd get enough significant improvement in producivity out of QK X3 if, like me, you use it a lot, and have it do serious donkey work.

Having lived with OK X2 and OK X3 I'd say you had a compelling reason to upgrade the OS to get to QK X3. Wouldn't a few days tweaking put right any problems you have with the UI etc?
--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Fwd: Trombone problems

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Paul Faatz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: January 30, 2005 3:22:51 PM EST
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Trombone problems

Might be old news to some of you, but...

Washington D.C.-Each year thousands are people are killed, maimed or annoyed
by trombones. The statistics of head, neck and even shoulder injuries
sustained by reed players, French horn and string sections seated within
reach of the deadly seventh position are truly shocking...not to mention
forced early retirement due to ever- increasing hearing problems reported by
classical musicians of all types who are forced to play the music of Wagner,
Mahler and Brahms, as well as the hundreds of alumni of the Herman, Ferguson
and Kenton bands and OKOM devotees of Kid Ory, Jack Teagarden, Abe Lincoln,
Jim Robinson and Lee Gifford.

There is current legislation pending in Congress to restrict the sale of
trombones and equip them with child-safety devices. The influential trombone
lobby is, of course, opposed to this. There have even been several proposals
for requiring a so-called "trigger lock" 0n all bass trombones! Every year
there are reports of hundreds of innocent children, attracted by the shiny
brass and smooth, seductive curves of an unattended instrument on a stand in
the corner of a room or in an unlocked case who are traumatized for life by
the attempts of a playmate to get a sound out of it or who may suffer a
collapsed lung or the effects of hyperventilation by trying the same effort
themselves! The owner's feeble "I didn't know the slide was unlocked" is no
excuse! Trombones should be stored out of reach of children.

Efforts to enact a mandatory 10-day waiting period to purchase a trombone
-which would simply allow a reasonable period of time for law enforcement
officials to cross-check the purchaser's name against an International list
of registered trombone offenders and Slide-O-Mix addicts, have been
repeatedly thwarted by the powerful Conn-Selmer- Yamaha (CSY) lobby. Law
enforcement officials are particularly alarmed over the increase in crimes
involving use of the "sawed-off" trombone or "sackbut." Legislation is also
pending in several progressive states, including New York and California, to
make carrying a concealed alto trombone a Class A felony!

Some Governors feel that there are sufficient laws already on the books that
simply need stricter enforcement - such as the 1932 nation-wide ban of
screw-on bells, the indiscriminate use of Pond's Cold Cream or KY Jelly and
unsupervised emptying of spit valves on public property; a filthy unsanitary
habit which will help spread the flu this year. One popular response to the
spread of delinquent behavior is the imposition of longer sentences
mandatory for those using a trombone while committing a crime ("Use a
trombone - Go to Jail"). Surveillance video tapes have proven especially
effective in identifying violators of this statute because career criminals
have often tried to avoid convictions by having their lawyers insist that
what eye-witnesses reported as a trombone was really only an AK-47 or other
legal assault weapon. Strict enforcement has been especially effective when
used in conjunction with the new "Three sharps, you're out" statutes that
have already been approved by many state legislatures.

Of course the automatic and semi-automatic valved models, both piston and
the middle-European rotary, are much more dangerous than the traditional
single valve trombone. Interpol has also reported the sudden appearance of
rear-blasting Cavalry models that were thought to have been completely
eliminated during the Great Confiscation mandated by the 1918 Treaty of
Versailles signed by representatives of every civilized country of the
period. You may recall that those instruments were melted down and became an
integral part of the Trans- Atlantic Telephone Cable that helped to unite
America and Europe. It is believed that the new source of these WMD's are
isolated factories in rural areas of China. The awesome destructive power of
the double trigger bass trombone could never have been imagined by the
founding fathers when they granted us the right to keep and bear arms.
Remember: When trombones are outlawed, only outlaws will play "I'm Gettin
Sentimental Over You."

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] up grade advice

I have used Panther almost since the day it became available--in fact, 
I deliberately avoided working with OSX at all until it became a mature 
OS.

All my remarks are based on the way my computer behaves in Panther, and 
regular readers of this list will be aware of some (about 50%) of the 
severe problems I have encountered in using this supposedly superior 
system.

The only reason I use OSX at all is that the planned obsolescence of 
both System 9 and the hardware to run it has required me to do so.

Pure highway robbery.
Among the adverse effects is that on Finale: The program has actually 
gotten worse since 2K2 (wh. was the finest iteration of the program in 
its history), and almost all the deficiencies are due to the 
requirements of OSX. Press three keys to toggle scroll/page view? Give 
me a break!

On Jan 30, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
I am really sorry you feel this way. I felt the same the first year 
that
I was using OS X. Personally I think that OS X 10.3 Panther changed
this. The reason is that a lot of things that were previously there but
difficult to access have now matured, and the system feels very much
grown up. Only then was I able to appreciate the enormous technology
advance that OS X gives me.

Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 28, 2005, at 3:11 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
 you will quickly find that it [OSX] is much better than OS 9
That has most emphatically *not* been my experience. OSX is a fix for 
something that was not broken, and that has forced all of us to buy 
thousands of dollars of new software, and waste weeks of time 
installing and configuring it, simply to continue doing business as 
usual. If we're lucky.
IMO the whole thing is highway robbery, pure and simple.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

> It is *never* a mistake to leave a computer system alone if it is
> stable and you are happy with how it works.

Yeah, that true too, we're all correct! It all really depends on your 
individual needs. I think you'd get enough significant improvement in 
producivity out of QK X3 if, like me, you use it a lot, and have it do serious 
donkey work. 

Having lived with OK X2 and OK X3 I'd say you had a compelling reason to 
upgrade the OS to get to QK X3. Wouldn't a few days tweaking put right any 
problems you have with the UI etc?
-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

-
Finale IRC channel
server: irc.chatspike.net
port: 6667
channel: #Finale
-

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

On 31 Jan 2005, at 1:05 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
It is *never* a mistake to leave a system alone if you are happy with 
how it works.
Actually, I disagree.  I was happy with how Jaguar was working, but I 
was even happier after upgrading to Panther.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread Ken Moore

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carl Dersham writes:
>"Necrophilharmonic."  I like that.  Mind if I drop that word to some of 
>my horror writing friends?

Not my coining.  I got it from another posting on the list.

-- 
Ken Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/
I reject emails > 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

> Bitter experience has taught me never to upgrade the OS (or anything
> else) unless absolutely necessary.

I'm of an almost entirely different opinion! I'll upgrade unless I can
find a compelling reason not to. I've found the OS improves in almost
every way with each new version. Things get fixed, performance often
improves, and many things get fixed, streamlined, or are made more
secure. This probably explains why I end up buying two or three new
macs every couple of years!

Generally I'll buy a copy of the new OS when it comes out and install
it on a spare mac, then monitor things like this list to see how
sensible it is to upgrade. I've always made backups, but thankfully
haven't ever had to restore.

Funnily enough, the biggest performance hit that I ever experienced was
between OS9 and OSX, and that was a result of having to use Quickeys X1
and X2, which were terrible for me at least. I've been using OSX since
it was bought out, but couldn't use it for engraving until FinMac 2005
and Quickeys X3. I haven't booted into OS9 since FinMac 2005. In my
experience I'm a little more sceptical about upgrading applications
rather than the OS.

I was getting so fed up of OS9 that I was considering jumping over to
Windows, OS9 sucked big time.
-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

-
Finale IRC channel
server: irc.chatspike.net
port: 6667
channel: #Finale
-

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

It is *never* a mistake to leave a computer system alone if it is stable 
and you are happy with how it works. At most you can say I may be 
missing out on some features I might like.

Darcy James Argue wrote:
>
> This is a huge mistake.  
>
> Again, that's likely to be a mistake.  Why don't you at least wait 
for user reports from people using your hardware setup?

--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Metronome Value Question

Daniel Wolf / 05.1.30 / 09:59 AM wrote:

>This article by John Greschak should answer your questions --
>
>http://www.greschak.com/polytempo/ptts.htm

Thank you very much for this info.  It sure did answer all of my
questions.  I used to make my students practice based on 60, but after
reading this, I think I want to try 80 :-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] LONG - SORRY - Performance/recording

On Jan 30, 2005, at 12:10 PM, John Howell wrote:
We're talking about 2 different art forms here. Live performance is 
one, and recording is another.
No we're not.
Music is an art form. Jazz is a genre. Live performance is a *medium*.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

On 31 Jan 2005, at 11:34 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Simon Troup wrote:
Out of curiousity why didn't you go to 10.3?
Bitter experience has taught me never to upgrade the OS (or anything 
else) unless absolutely necessary. Hardware is designed to match the 
performance demands of the software that is current at the time it is 
built. Upgrading quite often degrades performance. (I've found this to 
be generally true on any platform.)

Plus, upgrading always implies risk. There is the risk it won't work 
correctly on your computer. There is the risk that, for all the 
marketing hype, some feature in the old version you hold dear has been 
removed or modified to the point of uselessness. There is the risk 
that a new version has new bugs.

I never upgrade without a good reason, and no UI doo-dad constitutes a 
good reason.
This is a huge mistake.  Panther (10.3 ) runs *faster* on the same 
hardware compared to Jaguar (10.2).  Many MIDI and audio-related bugs 
(among other things) were fixed in 10.3.  I don't think your arguments 
for not upgrading are very well-founded.

Frankly, I hate the Panther UI, especially as compared with Jaguar.
This makes no sense to me.  The differences between the two are rather 
subtle.  The only major difference is the sidebar in Finder windows, 
which you can get rid of if you want.

Oh, and you can be sure I'll avoid Tiger, too.
Again, that's likely to be a mistake.  Why don't you at least wait for 
user reports from people using your hardware setup?

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

2005-01-31 Thread Randolph Peters

At 10:34 AM -0600 1/31/05, Robert Patterson wrote:
Bitter experience has taught me never to upgrade the OS (or anything 
else) unless absolutely necessary. Hardware is designed to match the 
performance demands of the software that is current at the time it 
is built. Upgrading quite often degrades performance. (I've found 
this to be generally true on any platform.)
[snip]
My memory might be off, but I thought that Panther had improved some 
aspects of MIDI and Audio that were a problem in Jaguar.

-Randolph Peters
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: More iKey

2005-01-31 Thread Steve Gibons

The minimum OS version for QK X3 is 10.3. I have 10.2.8. Apparently QK
X2 is discontinued. So they've abandoned my OS.

Actually they are still selling QK 2. Give them a call (800.523.7638), 
they are pretty nice over there.

steve
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Upgrading OS's (was TAN: More iKey)

Simon Troup wrote:
Out of curiousity why didn't you go to 10.3?
Bitter experience has taught me never to upgrade the OS (or anything 
else) unless absolutely necessary. Hardware is designed to match the 
performance demands of the software that is current at the time it is 
built. Upgrading quite often degrades performance. (I've found this to 
be generally true on any platform.)

Plus, upgrading always implies risk. There is the risk it won't work 
correctly on your computer. There is the risk that, for all the 
marketing hype, some feature in the old version you hold dear has been 
removed or modified to the point of uselessness. There is the risk that 
a new version has new bugs.

I never upgrade without a good reason, and no UI doo-dad constitutes a 
good reason. Frankly, I hate the Panther UI, especially as compared with 
Jaguar. Not only is Panther ugly, it removes useful function because the 
window's title bar is no longer delineated from the window's content. 
SFAIK, the only significant addition in Panther is the instant 
see-every-window feature, but in my environment with 3 monitors, I would 
derive less benefit from that than most.

Oh, and you can be sure I'll avoid Tiger, too. The only way Tiger might 
tempt me is if it had built-in screen rotation for all monitors. But 
even that is less tempting now that I can use Versavision, and anyway I 
have never heard it punted as a possible Tiger feature.

--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] RAM, vm, and FinMac

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.30 / 00:11 AM wrote:

>Remember that VSize is the amount of address space that has been 
>allocated to a process.

You are right.  'top' man says VSIZE is the total memory.  It is
confusing, but it seems there is no relationship between VSIZE and
swapfile.  It seems there is no way to see how much vm is called for a
running app.  I am going to rest this case :-)

It is interesting to know why 'top' shows VSIZE, and what is determining
the size of VSIZE.  After all, VSIZE doesn't seems to be a real concern.

And Linux seems to do this area differently.  File cache seems to play
into vm much more than OSX does.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: More iKey

> The minimum OS version for QK X3 is 10.3. I have 10.2.8. Apparently QK 
> X2 is discontinued. So they've abandoned my OS.

It may not worth you upgrading to 10.3 as 10.4 is due out soon. You could be 
better off waiting for both 10.4 and QK support for 10.4 to be in place before 
upgrading. 

Out of curiousity why didn't you go to 10.3?

Thanks anyway, that's a good reminder to check QK compatibility before 
upgrading the OS - I usually grab the latest version the minute it's released, 
I've probably just been fortunate not to have run into problems like this.
-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

-
Finale IRC channel
server: irc.chatspike.net
port: 6667
channel: #Finale
-

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Imploding music?

Is there a quick way to do this:
I have a first and second violin part on separate staves. Most of the 
time they are the same, but there are a few measures where they are 
different. I need to combine these two staves into one for the flute 
parts, which are supposed to be on one stave, with the standard 
multi-part distribution (ie when they are the same only one layer, when 
there are two parts they should be on two layers).

Is this possible, or do I have to do this manually?
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] TAN: More iKey

The minimum OS version for QK X3 is 10.3. I have 10.2.8. Apparently QK 
X2 is discontinued. So they've abandoned my OS.

Fiskum, Steve wrote:
  From:   Robert Patterson
  Sent:   Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:51 AM
  I would love to try QuickKeys, but they've abandoned my OS. The demo
  doesn't even start.
What OS are you using? QuicKeys supports OS9 and OSX and you can still 
purchase older versions. I have been working with QKX3 and it blows away 
the old OS9 version. The addition of the logic and decision functions 
has greatly improved the application. QuicKeys can now handle all of the 
complicated macros that I had setup in OS9. As with Finale, there are a 
few speed issues when editing large macros within their new GUI but the 
macros are more reliable and fast when you run them compared to the 
older versions of QK especially when comparing it to the OS9 versions.

Cheers,
Steve


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

2005-01-31 Thread John Howell

At 1:08 PM -0800 1/30/05, Lon Price wrote:
The problem starts at the college level.  Performance majors are so 
busy learning the established literature that they have no time to 
devote to a new student work, or at least that was my experience 
when I studied composition at USC.  If the composition was 
technically difficult, requiring a lot of rehearsal time, which a 
lot of new music tends to be, no one seemed interested in investing 
the time and effort it would take to learn it.  It seemed to me that 
composition students tended to "dumb down" their music in order to 
get it played.  I refused to do that, so the only piece of mine that 
got a performance was the aforementioned orchestral piece.
So writing music that is accessible and playable is dumbing down? 
Which means that complexity and difficulty equals quality?  Forgive 
me, but that does not compute.  I don't know your work, Lon, and it 
may be terrific, but aren't you describing everything that went wrong 
during the 20th century in the shrinking world of "art" music, where 
most composers have to have day jobs?  Find a market.  Compose for 
that market.  Or don't; it's your choice.

John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] New AlBooks are out


New AlBooks are out:


The good deal for AlBook 1.5GHz might come soon.  I am monitoring
smalldog.com where I buy Macs.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] TAN: More iKey

2005-01-31 Thread Fiskum, Steve

Title: RE: [Finale] TAN: More iKey






From:   Robert Patterson

Sent:   Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:51 AM


I would love to try QuickKeys, but they've abandoned my OS. The demo 

doesn't even start.



What OS are you using? QuicKeys supports OS9 and OSX and you can still purchase older versions. I have been working with QKX3 and it blows away the old OS9 version. The addition of the logic and decision functions has greatly improved the application. QuicKeys can now handle all of the complicated macros that I had setup in OS9. As with Finale, there are a few speed issues when editing large macros within their new GUI but the macros are more reliable and fast when you run them compared to the older versions of QK especially when comparing it to the OS9 versions.

Cheers,

Steve




___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Default file updates for Fin05

I thought we investigated this back during the Fin04 beta cycle. My 
recollection is that Finale rebuilds the plugin menus each time you 
access one from the keyboard. Because you have such huge Saved Settings 
in the Settings Scrapbook, the rebuild takes awhile. OS9 and Win are 
less affected because they don't use .plist (which is XML). XML is 
sllo, but it is the recommended format for preferences in OSX.

If you only use the Settings Scrapbook infrequently, here is a step that 
 might help. Make a copy of your 
com.robertgpatterson.FinalePlugins.plist file. (I usually stick it a 
subfolder named com.robertgpatterson.FinalePlugins, which keeps the two 
side-by-side.)

Then remove the big saved settings from your everyday file and only 
rename it when you need to access the big saved settings. A future 
upgrade to Settings Scrapbook to store the scrapbook settings in a 
separate .plist would probably help immensely, but I haven't had the 
time to think about it.

If you want to continue this topic, it might be appropriate over on the 
Patterson Plug-Ins list.

Robert
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Robert,
when you have succeeded and are using Fin2k5, I wonder whether you could 
let me know about something I am experiencing with 2k5 (and 2k4 for that 
matter):

There is a delay for the keyboard commands (only the built-in ones, and 
only some of them), which is directly related to the amount of (sub)menu 
items in the Plugin menu. The following commands are especially 
affected: Switching between scroll and page view, Print, Save. Here is 
my observation:
When I switch from scroll to page view or vice versa the delay is 
present, if not the first time, then certainly if I switch back 
immediately. If I press command-P, then cancel, then use the key command 
for switching the view it is immediate, but the next time the delay is 
present again.
Speedy menu items are not affected (thanks for that...).

The reason I ask you: I have a lot of saved settings with your plugins, 
and I assume you do, too.

The delay was really terrible on my old Powerbook, but it is still 
present on my brand new iBook, and it is driving me nuts.

Thanks,
Johannes
PS: Do you have any idea why, when I reply to your posts, Thunderbird 
always includes both the list and you as recipients, while this doesn't 
happen with any other list mails? Just curious...

Robert Patterson wrote:
I'm upgrading my default file from Fin03 to Fin05. I know I should 
redesign my expressions and possibly my default tuplets. Are there any 
other new setting I should be thinking about? Engraver slurs? Others?

--
Robert Patterson
http://RobertGPatterson.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] RAM, vm, and FinMac

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.30 / 01:44 AM wrote:
>Think of it as "I'm going to allocate an hour 
>tomorrow morning to run errands"  I have assigned myself (much as the 
>OS assigns virtual memory to a process or app which is what VSize 
>represents in OS X) a specific amount of time to do these errands...I 
>may not use the whole time but this is what I have have set aside 
>based on what I think will be needed.

Right, so I'd think
"now I have cloned myself (more physical RAM), 
"I can do the errands in half of the time I used to allocate", 
no?

>>

It sez only this:
<< VSIZE indicates the amount of virtual memory Mac OS X has assigned for
this process or application>> which is the same as Linux does.

By the way, I love how you explain things, not to mention you have solved
many of my long-time Finale puzzles for me before.  You must be a good
teacher :-)

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Default file updates for Fin05

Robert,
when you have succeeded and are using Fin2k5, I wonder whether you could 
let me know about something I am experiencing with 2k5 (and 2k4 for that 
matter):

There is a delay for the keyboard commands (only the built-in ones, and 
only some of them), which is directly related to the amount of (sub)menu 
items in the Plugin menu. The following commands are especially 
affected: Switching between scroll and page view, Print, Save. Here is 
my observation:
When I switch from scroll to page view or vice versa the delay is 
present, if not the first time, then certainly if I switch back 
immediately. If I press command-P, then cancel, then use the key command 
for switching the view it is immediate, but the next time the delay is 
present again.
Speedy menu items are not affected (thanks for that...).

The reason I ask you: I have a lot of saved settings with your plugins, 
and I assume you do, too.

The delay was really terrible on my old Powerbook, but it is still 
present on my brand new iBook, and it is driving me nuts.

Thanks,
Johannes
PS: Do you have any idea why, when I reply to your posts, Thunderbird 
always includes both the list and you as recipients, while this doesn't 
happen with any other list mails? Just curious...

Robert Patterson wrote:
I'm upgrading my default file from Fin03 to Fin05. I know I should 
redesign my expressions and possibly my default tuplets. Are there any 
other new setting I should be thinking about? Engraver slurs? Others?
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff - Live music correction

I meant to say _Mamma Mia_  is, I assume,  being played with an 
orchestra of 20 or 25  OR an even smaller combo.

RBH
dhbailey wrote:
Aaron Sherber wrote:
At 09:37 PM 01/30/2005, Raymond Horton wrote:
 >There is another, major, difference between musicians fighting for 
their
 >jobs, and the ice-deliverers vs. refrigerators comparison.  In the
 >latter case, the new refrigerator was a SUPERIOR product, and the for
 >the ice deliverers to fight progress would have been futile.  In the
 >case of live musicians vs.synthesis,  musicians are fighting an 
INFERIOR
 >product

I agree. I made the point a few posts back that there are (at least) 
three separate issues here, of which the labor issue is one and the 
quality issue is another. The iceman example was speaking strictly to 
the labor issue.

Let's see now, we're talking of "quality" and Bobby Vinton in the same 
sentence?  It seems to me that the question of why Bobby Vinton was on 
that orchetra's stage (was he doing Schubert lieder or something?) is 
as germane to this discussion as to why he was allowed to use a 
synthesizer.

That the orchestra had lowered its standards in order to try to draw a 
larger audience speaks volumes about how the battle is already lost in 
many ways.  If Bobby Vinton had had to maintain certain vocal 
standards the way a classical/non-pop singer would have to, in order 
to perform with the orchestra, would he have been allowed on the stage 
to begin with, synthesizer or no?

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff - Live music

dhbailey wrote:
Aaron Sherber wrote:
At 09:37 PM 01/30/2005, Raymond Horton wrote:
 >There is another, major, difference between musicians fighting for 
their
 >jobs, and the ice-deliverers vs. refrigerators comparison.  In the
 >latter case, the new refrigerator was a SUPERIOR product, and the for
 >the ice deliverers to fight progress would have been futile.  In the
 >case of live musicians vs.synthesis,  musicians are fighting an 
INFERIOR
 >product

I agree. I made the point a few posts back that there are (at least) 
three separate issues here, of which the labor issue is one and the 
quality issue is another. The iceman example was speaking strictly to 
the labor issue.

Let's see now, we're talking of "quality" and Bobby Vinton in the same 
sentence?  It seems to me that the question of why Bobby Vinton was on 
that orchetra's stage (was he doing Schubert lieder or something?) is 
as germane to this discussion as to why he was allowed to use a 
synthesizer.

That the orchestra had lowered its standards in order to try to draw a 
larger audience speaks volumes about how the battle is already lost in 
many ways.  If Bobby Vinton had had to maintain certain vocal 
standards the way a classical/non-pop singer would have to, in order 
to perform with the orchestra, would he have been allowed on the stage 
to begin with, synthesizer or no?

Remember, this discussion began in the context of Broadway, which is 
basically a popular medium.  Right now one of the biggest hits on 
Broadway, _Mamma Mia_,  is based on the songs of ABBA, and I assume is 
being played with an orchestra of 20 or 25,  an even smaller combo.  If 
you compare that to a symphony pops concert with Bobby Vinton and an 
orchestra of 75, indeed _Mamma Mia_ may still win, (I've not seen it) 
but they are not in totally different universes.  Let's not get too 
snobby in our discussion, OK?

Welcome to the real world.  The Louisville Orchestra plays a great many 
serious concerts, which have been struggling a bit the past four years, 
like most orchestras, and the programming has been getting more 
conservative as a result.  (Actually, this week we're playing some 
Corigliano, whom we know better than does any other orchestra anywhere.) 

But our pops series, starring mostly aging baby boomer stars (Vinton; 
Frankie Vally (sp?); 3 Dog Night; Blood, Sweat and Tears; and a Pat and 
Debby Boone Christmas [!] were some of the guests from the past few of 
seasons) does extremely well at the box office, so what are you gonna 
do?  Turn down the money that helps us play Corigliano and Brahms this 
week?

Some of the people on this list need to turn off the damn CD player and 
get out into the real world more.  Do you know we had an election, and 
did you SEE THE GUY WHO WON? 

(Sorry!)
RBH
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff - Live music

Aaron Sherber wrote:
At 09:37 PM 01/30/2005, Raymond Horton wrote:
 >There is another, major, difference between musicians fighting for their
 >jobs, and the ice-deliverers vs. refrigerators comparison.  In the
 >latter case, the new refrigerator was a SUPERIOR product, and the for
 >the ice deliverers to fight progress would have been futile.  In the
 >case of live musicians vs.synthesis,  musicians are fighting an INFERIOR
 >product
I agree. I made the point a few posts back that there are (at least) 
three separate issues here, of which the labor issue is one and the 
quality issue is another. The iceman example was speaking strictly to 
the labor issue.

Let's see now, we're talking of "quality" and Bobby Vinton in the same 
sentence?  It seems to me that the question of why Bobby Vinton was on 
that orchetra's stage (was he doing Schubert lieder or something?) is as 
germane to this discussion as to why he was allowed to use a synthesizer.

That the orchestra had lowered its standards in order to try to draw a 
larger audience speaks volumes about how the battle is already lost in 
many ways.  If Bobby Vinton had had to maintain certain vocal standards 
the way a classical/non-pop singer would have to, in order to perform 
with the orchestra, would he have been allowed on the stage to begin 
with, synthesizer or no?

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jan 30, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:
Darcy, I think there's a difference between your right to *fight* for 
a job and your right to *have* that job. I agree that workers have the 
right to fight for their jobs, and *should* do so, and that there's 
nothing artificial about that fight. If the iceman's union says, "We 
know that there is now this newfangled technology that lets you have 
an electric icebox in your house that doesn't actually use any ice, 
but we'd like to restrict the manufacture of those devices in order to 
preserve the jobs of our members," they are absolutely entitled to 
make that request (or demand). But actually *limiting* refrigerator 
manufacture would be, I think, an artificial way of staying 
technological progress.


I'm not clear on a point of semantics – what is the difference in your 
mind between "restricting" and "limiting" refrigerator manufacture? 
Because I don't see a difference.

I believe the difference was between the desire of the union to try to 
limit the manufacture of refrigerators and the actual accomplishment of 
that desire.  It's one thing for a union to fight something new, either 
through ads to try to get the public to stay away from something new, or 
through picketing the manufacturers, and it's another thing to actually 
go to court or to the legislature and make such production illegal.

One is an attempt via market forces while the other is an attempt 
through law, and that I believe was the distinction.  At least that was 
the distinction I got when I read the message.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff