Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Pavel Ozhdikhin]

Nadya,

I suggested one minor change to your patch in JIRA. Otherwise the patch
looks fine to me.

Thanks,
Pavel


On 11/15/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi all,
I have attached an updated version of the patch for the getting started
page to the JIRA. If someone knowledgeable takes a look and evaluates,
that would be great.
I am not the reporter of the issue, so I cannot set the 'patch
available' setting. However, if no requests for fixes arrive, I suggest
that we consider the issue ready to be closed.

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


>-Original Message-
>From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:43 AM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>outdated
>
>OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
>suitable:
>
>"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>
>I'd also add:
>
>"-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
>server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
>start-up and client-side applications)
>"-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
>long-running server-side applications
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>
>On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Pavel,
>> Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
>> updated patch soon.
>> As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple
of
>> examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only
gives
>> a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might
not
>> always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not
have
>> it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
>> great.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>> is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >Nadya,
>> >
>> >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
>> >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
>> >
>> >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to
wiki)?
>> >
>> >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
>> users.
>> >
>> >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
>> >
>> >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we
gave
>> a
>> >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a
separate
>> >section here.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Pavel
>> >
>> >
>> >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content
to
>> >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
>> >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The
current
>> >> structure is:
>> >> - overview
>> >> - running an app
>> >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
>> >>-- running an app
>> >>-- debugging an app
>> >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
>> >>
>> >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can
add
>> a
>> >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to
write
>> in
>> >> Configuring vm operation?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >>
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> >outdated
>> >> >
>> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Hi all,
I have attached an updated version of the patch for the getting started
page to the JIRA. If someone knowledgeable takes a look and evaluates,
that would be great.
I am not the reporter of the issue, so I cannot set the 'patch
available' setting. However, if no requests for fixes arrive, I suggest
that we consider the issue ready to be closed.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-Original Message-
>From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:43 AM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>outdated
>
>OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
>suitable:
>
>"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>
>I'd also add:
>
>"-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
>server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
>start-up and client-side applications)
>"-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
>long-running server-side applications
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>
>On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Pavel,
>> Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
>> updated patch soon.
>> As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple
of
>> examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only
gives
>> a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might
not
>> always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not
have
>> it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
>> great.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>> is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >Nadya,
>> >
>> >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
>> >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
>> >
>> >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to
wiki)?
>> >
>> >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
>> users.
>> >
>> >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
>> >
>> >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we
gave
>> a
>> >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a
separate
>> >section here.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Pavel
>> >
>> >
>> >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content
to
>> >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
>> >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The
current
>> >> structure is:
>> >> - overview
>> >> - running an app
>> >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
>> >>-- running an app
>> >>-- debugging an app
>> >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
>> >>
>> >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can
add
>> a
>> >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to
write
>> in
>> >> Configuring vm operation?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >>
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> >outdated
>> >> >
>> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >Subject: R

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x221 day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:
> Tim Ellison wrote:
> > Egor Pasko wrote:
> >> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
> >> him:
> > 
> > This is loverly -- kudos to you.
> > When I asked my mum about class unloading support she just said
> > 'what?'
> 
> Well, my grandmother felt that it was a bug in the GC, and should be
> fixed.  Then she went back to her knitting - she's making a sweater
> that has the JIT-GC interface on it

Tim, this is where I beat you. My mum is not so good at knitting, but
she wrote some part of an OS for some sort of Soviet nuclear
weapons. She is more established in unloading.

-- 
Egor Pasko

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Stefano Mazzocchi]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> 
> 
> Tim Ellison wrote:
>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
>>> him:
>> 
>>
>> This is loverly -- kudos to you.
>>
>> When I asked my mum about class unloading support she just said 'what?'
> 
> Well, my grandmother felt that it was a bug in the GC, and should be
> fixed.  Then she went back to her knitting - she's making a sweater that
> has the JIT-GC interface on it

LOL

-- 
Stefano.

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

It's hard for all of us.  Better to be safe than sorry.

The doc content should include the license header in comment, and there 
is a clear (c) at the bottom.


The license header refers to the NOTICE file.

Thanks for being conservative about this - it keeps us from getting into 
trouble.


(I was just giggling about the "Database" reference...)

geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

Ok, thanks.
I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
website with pleasure :) 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 


-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL

Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's
enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.

geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.

html#Disclaimer


http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide

.html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be

resolved)

+ the Unicode disclaimer.

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova



-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

what's the link we're talking about?

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova



-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an

ASF

copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
auto-generated at the bottom anyway)


geir


Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to

get

an

initial patch for the getting started document, and we can

then

work

to

improve it.

OK, I am "watching" it


Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some

how-tos.

To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are

for

 eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind

of

 links we have"

Am I right?

[Nadya]
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment

out

copyrights and update info that is incorrect.

remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright

law,

not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.


Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for

all

your

help.

u r welcome


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our

perceptions

of

various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial

-

it's

more

of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this

"How

to

write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM

Command-line

Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how

to

accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created

for

the

  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)


As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on

another

page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a

short

howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common

options,

solving

typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for

the

howto

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-----Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ego

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

Tim Ellison wrote:

Egor Pasko wrote:

BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
him:



This is loverly -- kudos to you.

When I asked my mum about class unloading support she just said 'what?'


Well, my grandmother felt that it was a bug in the GC, and should be 
fixed.  Then she went back to her knitting - she's making a sweater that 
has the JIT-GC interface on it


geir

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Tim Ellison]

Egor Pasko wrote:
> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
> him:


This is loverly -- kudos to you.

When I asked my mum about class unloading support she just said 'what?'

Regards,
Tim

-- 

Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
IBM Java technology centre, UK.

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x221 day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
> suitable:
> 
> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> 
> I'd also add:
> 
> "-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
> server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
> start-up and client-side applications)
> "-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
> long-running server-side applications

I've already put these and more options to [1]. Except
"-Xem:server_static". I think, using options is enough
transparent. What kind of other tutorial-level info do we need? I
cannot find many, sorry.

Once I published an example of .emconf file for JIT bug isolation. We
agreed that it would have been great to put it on the website.  Yes,
that's a kind of tutorial. But it relates more to "Debugging VM and
JIT".

[1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/DrlvmCommandLineOptions

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Pavel,
> > Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
> > updated patch soon.
> > As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple of
> > examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only gives
> > a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might not
> > always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not have
> > it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
> > great.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
> > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> > is
> > >outdated
> > >
> > >Nadya,
> > >
> > >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
> > >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
> > >
> > >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)?
> > >
> > >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
> > users.
> > >
> > >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
> > >
> > >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we gave
> > a
> > >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a separate
> > >section here.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Pavel
> > >
> > >
> > >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
> > >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
> > >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
> > >> structure is:
> > >> - overview
> > >> - running an app
> > >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
> > >>-- running an app
> > >>-- debugging an app
> > >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
> > >>
> > >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add
> > a
> > >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write
> > in
> > >> Configuring vm operation?
> > >>
> > >> Thank you,
> > >> Nadya Morozova
> > >>
> > >> >-Original Message-
> > >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
> > >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > >> >outdated
> > >> >
> > >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> >> >-Original Message-
> > >> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
> > >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlv

Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Pavel Ozhdikhin]

OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
suitable:

"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"

I'd also add:

"-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
start-up and client-side applications)
"-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
long-running server-side applications

Thanks,
Pavel

On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Pavel,
Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
updated patch soon.
As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple of
examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only gives
a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might not
always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not have
it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
great.

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

>-Original Message-
>From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>outdated
>
>Nadya,
>
>I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
>http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
>
>> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)?
>
>I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
users.
>
>> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
>
>This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we gave
a
>link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a separate
>section here.
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>
>
>On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
>> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
>> structure is:
>> - overview
>> - running an app
>> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
>>-- running an app
>>-- debugging an app
>> - configuring vm operation (empty)
>>
>> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add
a
>> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write
in
>> Configuring vm operation?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> >outdated
>> >> >
>> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> Ok,
>> >> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
get
>> an
>> >> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
>> work
>> >> to
>> >> >> improve it.
>> >> >
>> >> >OK, I am "watching" it
>> >> >
>> >> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>> how-tos.
>> >> >
>> >> >To summarize:
>> >> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
for
>> >> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
>> >> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>> >> >  links we have"
>> >> >
>> >> >Am I right?
>> >>
>> >> [Nadya]
>> >> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
out
>> >> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>> >
>> >remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
law,
>> >not sure we can remove them.

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Pavel,
Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
updated patch soon. 
As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple of
examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only gives
a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might not
always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not have
it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
great. 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
>-Original Message-
>From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>outdated
>
>Nadya,
>
>I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
>http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
>
>> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)?
>
>I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
users.
>
>> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
>
>This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we gave
a
>link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a separate
>section here.
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>
>
>On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
>> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
>> structure is:
>> - overview
>> - running an app
>> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
>>-- running an app
>>-- debugging an app
>> - configuring vm operation (empty)
>>
>> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add
a
>> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write
in
>> Configuring vm operation?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> >outdated
>> >> >
>> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> Ok,
>> >> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
get
>> an
>> >> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
>> work
>> >> to
>> >> >> improve it.
>> >> >
>> >> >OK, I am "watching" it
>> >> >
>> >> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>> how-tos.
>> >> >
>> >> >To summarize:
>> >> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
for
>> >> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
>> >> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>> >> >  links we have"
>> >> >
>> >> >Am I right?
>> >>
>> >> [Nadya]
>> >> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
out
>> >> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>> >
>> >remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
law,
>> >not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>> >desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>> >
>> >> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
>> your
>> >> help.
>> >
>> >u r welcome
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Thank you,
>> >> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Original Message-
>> >> >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 

Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Pavel Ozhdikhin]

Nadya,

I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150


Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)?


I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for users.


Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?


This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we gave a
link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a separate
section here.

Thanks,
Pavel


On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
structure is:
- overview
- running an app
- eclipse-related (now much shorter)
   -- running an app
   -- debugging an app
- configuring vm operation (empty)

Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add a
link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write in
Configuring vm operation?

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> Ok,
>> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get
an
>> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
work
>> to
>> >> improve it.
>> >
>> >OK, I am "watching" it
>> >
>> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
how-tos.
>> >
>> >To summarize:
>> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
>> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
>> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>> >  links we have"
>> >
>> >Am I right?
>>
>> [Nadya]
>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>
>remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
>not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>
>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
your
>> help.
>
>u r welcome
>
>> >
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> outdated
>> >>
>> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> > Egor,
>> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
perceptions
>> of
>> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -
it's
>> >> more
>> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
"How
>> to
>> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>> >> Command-line
>> >> > Args Tutorial"?
>> >>
>> >> on Wikipedia:
>> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
>> >> accomplish
>> >>   some specific task
>> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for
>> the
>> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>> >>
>> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
>> >>
>> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
>> another
>> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
short
>> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Ok, thanks.
I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
website with pleasure :) 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-Original Message-
>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL
>
>Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's
>enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.
>
>geir
>
>
>Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
>> html#Disclaimer
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
>> .html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be
resolved)
>> + the Unicode disclaimer.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>>> outdated
>>>
>>> what's the link we're talking about?
>>>
>>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>>>>> outdated
>>>>>
>>>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an
>> ASF
>>>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>>>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> geir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
>> get
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
then
>>>> work
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>>>> how-tos.
>>>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
>> for
>>>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
of
>>>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
>> out
>>>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
>> law,
>>>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>>>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
all
>>>> your
>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>> u r welcome

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL

Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's 
enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.


geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html#Disclaimer 
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide

.html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be resolved)
+ the Unicode disclaimer.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 


-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

what's the link we're talking about?

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova



-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an

ASF

copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
auto-generated at the bottom anyway)


geir


Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to

get

an

initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then

work

to

improve it.

OK, I am "watching" it


Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some

how-tos.

To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are

for

 eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
 links we have"

Am I right?

[Nadya]
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment

out

copyrights and update info that is incorrect.

remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright

law,

not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.


Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all

your

help.

u r welcome


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our

perceptions

of

various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -

it's

more

of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this

"How

to

write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM

Command-line

Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created

for

the

  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)


As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on

another

page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a

short

howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,

solving

typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the

howto

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not

think

ours

is

ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a

tutorial.

we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)


So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be

happy

to

help

though.

well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for

VIM

:)

some contraversal inside me..fighting..done

let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and

then

"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Ori

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html#Disclaimer 
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
.html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be resolved)
+ the Unicode disclaimer.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-Original Message-
>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>what's the link we're talking about?
>
>Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>>> outdated
>>>
>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an
ASF
>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>
>>>
>>> geir
>>>
>>>
>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
>> is
>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
get
>> an
>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
>> work
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>> how-tos.
>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
for
>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
out
>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
law,
>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>
>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
>> your
>>>>> help.
>>>> u r welcome
>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>> is
>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
perceptions
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -
>> it's
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
>> "How
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>>>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>> * A _ho

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

what's the link we're talking about?

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 


-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an ASF
copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
auto-generated at the bottom anyway)


geir


Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get

an

initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then

work

to

improve it.

OK, I am "watching" it


Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some

how-tos.

To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
 eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
 links we have"

Am I right?

[Nadya]
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
copyrights and update info that is incorrect.

remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.


Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all

your

help.

u r welcome


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions

of

various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -

it's

more

of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this

"How

to

write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM

Command-line

Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for

the

  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)


As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on

another

page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a

short

howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,

solving

typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the

howto

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think

ours

is

ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a

tutorial.

we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)


So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy

to

help

though.

well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM

:)

some contraversal inside me..fighting..done

let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-----Original Message-----
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't

need

the

VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use

Harmony

for

Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-Original Message-
>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an ASF
>copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>
>
>geir
>
>
>Egor Pasko wrote:
>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>>>> outdated
>>>>
>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>> Ok,
>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get
an
>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
work
>>> to
>>>>> improve it.
>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>
>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
how-tos.
>>>> To summarize:
>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>>>>  links we have"
>>>>
>>>> Am I right?
>>> [Nadya]
>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>
>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>
>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
your
>>> help.
>>
>> u r welcome
>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>>>>> outdated
>>>>>
>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions
>>> of
>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -
it's
>>>>> more
>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
"How
>>> to
>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>   some specific task
>>>>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for
>>> the
>>>>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>>>>
>>>>>> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
>>> another
>>>>>> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
short
>>>>>> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
>>>>> solving
>>>>>> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>>>>>> Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>>>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the
howto
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
&g

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an ASF 
copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be 
auto-generated at the bottom anyway)



geir


Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an
initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work

to

improve it.

OK, I am "watching" it


Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos.

To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
 eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
 links we have"

Am I right?
[Nadya] 
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out

copyrights and update info that is incorrect.


remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.


Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all your
help.


u r welcome


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions

of

various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's

more

of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How

to

write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM

Command-line

Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for

the

  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)


As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on

another

page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,

solving

typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think

ours

is

ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.

we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)


So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy

to

help

though.

well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
some contraversal inside me..fighting..done

let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't

need

the

VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use

Harmony

for

Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering


-----Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with

DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:

Nadya,

One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all

current

content

and write something like following:

"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other

Java

implementations, 

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150. 
The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
structure is:
- overview
- running an app 
- eclipse-related (now much shorter)
-- running an app
-- debugging an app
- configuring vm operation (empty)

Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add a
link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write in
Configuring vm operation?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> Ok,
>> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get
an
>> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
work
>> to
>> >> improve it.
>> >
>> >OK, I am "watching" it
>> >
>> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
how-tos.
>> >
>> >To summarize:
>> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
>> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
>> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>> >  links we have"
>> >
>> >Am I right?
>>
>> [Nadya]
>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>
>remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
>not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>
>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
your
>> help.
>
>u r welcome
>
>> >
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> outdated
>> >>
>> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> > Egor,
>> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
perceptions
>> of
>> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial -
it's
>> >> more
>> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
"How
>> to
>> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>> >> Command-line
>> >> > Args Tutorial"?
>> >>
>> >> on Wikipedia:
>> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
>> >> accomplish
>> >>   some specific task
>> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for
>> the
>> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>> >>
>> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
>> >>
>> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
>> another
>> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
short
>> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
>> >> solving
>> >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>> >> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
>> >>
>> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the
howto
>> >>
>> >> > Thank you,
>> >> > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -Original Message-
>> >> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >-Original Message-
> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> >outdated
> >
> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> Ok,
> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an
> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work
> to
> >> improve it.
> >
> >OK, I am "watching" it
> >
> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos.
> >
> >To summarize:
> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
> >  links we have"
> >
> >Am I right?
> 
> [Nadya] 
> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.

remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law,
not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.

> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all your
> help.

u r welcome

> >
> >> Thank you,
> >> Nadya Morozova
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> >> outdated
> >>
> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> > Egor,
> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions
> of
> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's
> >> more
> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How
> to
> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
> >> Command-line
> >> > Args Tutorial"?
> >>
> >> on Wikipedia:
> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
> >> accomplish
> >>   some specific task
> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for
> the
> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
> >>
> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
> >>
> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
> another
> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
> >> solving
> >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
> >> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
> >>
> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto
> >>
> >> > Thank you,
> >> > Nadya Morozova
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> >> > outdated
> >> >
> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> > > Alexei,
> >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think
> ours
> >> > is
> >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
> >> >
> >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> >> >
> >> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
> >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy
> to
> >> > help
> >> > > though.
> >> >
> >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
> >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> >> >
> >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
> >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tu

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> Ok,
>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an
>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work
to
>> improve it.
>
>OK, I am "watching" it
>
>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos.
>
>To summarize:
>* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
>  links we have"
>
>Am I right?

[Nadya] 
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out
copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all your
help.

>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> outdated
>>
>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > Egor,
>> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions
of
>> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's
>> more
>> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How
to
>> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>> Command-line
>> > Args Tutorial"?
>>
>> on Wikipedia:
>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
>> accomplish
>>   some specific task
>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for
the
>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>
>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>
>> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
another
>> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
>> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
>> solving
>> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>
>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto
>>
>> > Thank you,
>> > Nadya Morozova
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> > outdated
>> >
>> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > Alexei,
>> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think
ours
>> > is
>> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
>> >
>> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>> >
>> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy
to
>> > help
>> > > though.
>> >
>> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
>> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>> >
>> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
>> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>> >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > > Nadya Morozova
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>> DRL"
>> > is
>> > > outdated
>> > >
>> > > Guys,
>> > >
>> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't
need
>> > the
>> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
>> > >
>> > >  +1 for maintain

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Ok,
> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an
> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work to
> improve it.

OK, I am "watching" it

> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos.

To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for
  eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
  links we have"

Am I right?

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Egor, 
> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions of
> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's
> more
> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How to
> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
> Command-line
> > Args Tutorial"?
> 
> on Wikipedia:
> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
> accomplish
>   some specific task
> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for the
>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
> 
> yes, I mix those terms :)
> 
> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on another
> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
> solving
> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. 
> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
> 
> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto
>  
> > Thank you, 
> > Nadya Morozova
> >  
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> > 
> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > Alexei,
> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours
> > is
> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
> > 
> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> > 
> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to
> > help
> > > though.
> > 
> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> > 
> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
> > 
> > > Thank you, 
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >  
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
> > is
> > > outdated
> > > 
> > > Guys,
> > > 
> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need
> > the
> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> > > 
> > >   +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> > > 
> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony
> > for
> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> > > 
> > > With best regards,
> > > Alexei Fedotov,
> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering
> > > 
> > > >-Original Message-
> > > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> > > >outdated
> > > >
> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > > >> Nadya,
> > > >>

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an
initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work to
improve it.
Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Egor, 
> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions of
> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's
more
> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How to
> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
Command-line
> Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for the
  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)

> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on another
> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options,
solving
> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. 
> Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto
 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Alexei,
> > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours
> is
> > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
> 
> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> 
> > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to
> help
> > though.
> 
> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> 
> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
> 
> > Thank you, 
> > Nadya Morozova
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
> is
> > outdated
> > 
> > Guys,
> > 
> > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need
> the
> > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> > 
> > +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> > 
> > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony
> for
> > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> > 
> > With best regards,
> > Alexei Fedotov,
> > Intel Java & XML Engineering
> > 
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> > >outdated
> > >
> > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > >> Nadya,
> > >>
> > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all
current
> > >content
> > >> and write something like following:
> > >>
> > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other
Java
> > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
> > link to
> > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> > >commonly
> > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> > >Salikh's
> > >> page or to the document)."
> > >>
> > >> What do you think?
> > >
> > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> > >
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Pavel
> > >>

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Egor, 
> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions of
> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's more
> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How to
> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM Command-line
> Args Tutorial"?

on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to accomplish
  some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for the
  purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks

yes, I mix those terms :)

> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on another
> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options, solving
> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. 
> Does anybody volunteer to help?

let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto
 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Alexei,
> > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours
> is
> > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
> 
> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> 
> > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to
> help
> > though.
> 
> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> 
> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
> 
> > Thank you, 
> > Nadya Morozova
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> > outdated
> > 
> > Guys,
> > 
> > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need
> the
> > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> > 
> > +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> > 
> > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony
> for
> > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> > 
> > With best regards,
> > Alexei Fedotov,
> > Intel Java & XML Engineering
> > 
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > >outdated
> > >
> > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > >> Nadya,
> > >>
> > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
> > >content
> > >> and write something like following:
> > >>
> > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
> > link to
> > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> > >commonly
> > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> > >Salikh's
> > >> page or to the document)."
> > >>
> > >> What do you think?
> > >
> > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> > >
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Pavel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> > >> >
> > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> > >> >
> > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> > >> >
> > >> > I exp

Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Alexei Fedotov]

Nadya,
I think fixing a tutorial is a nice task for a newbie. I have filed a
JIRA about it:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150

All,
Please check that I've correctly added your corrections to the document.

Alexei

On 11/10/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours is
ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to help
though.

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

   +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering

>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>> Nadya,
>>
>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
>content
>> and write something like following:
>>
>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
link to
>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
>commonly
>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
>Salikh's
>> page or to the document)."
>>
>> What do you think?
>
>1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>
>> Thanks,
>> Pavel
>>
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >
>> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > Good day to you, Egor!
>> >
>> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>> >
>> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
>> >
>> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
>> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
>> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
>> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
>> >
>> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
Pavel
>> > Ozhdikhin here.
>> >
>> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
from
>> > him:
>> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
with
>> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
the
>> > desired TLP :)
>> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
reported
>> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
>> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
list
>:)
>> >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > > Nadya Morozova
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> > > outdated
>> > >
>> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > > Egor,
>> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
-
>> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
we
>need
>> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I
hope
>the
>> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
>> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>> > > >
>> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
>There,
>> > > > you can tell people to go download,
build
>> > > the
>>

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

See below.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:39 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> +1 for having some getting started info on a separate page. 
> There are some things that need to stand out promptly, and probably
> newbie info is one of them (I mean, I'd want to have such a page when
I
> got started with this project). 

you mean, the left-side collection _does not suit_ as "getting started"
info? To me it is fine, I am a bad judge here though (far from beginner)

[nm] the navigation is fine for a contributor to the project, but might
not be friendly for someone starting with using our vm. The navigation
leads to many places, including the ones such a reader needs. But I have
had a feeling that I understand how the developer's project works
without having a clear idea of how to start using what they are
producing. It's a personal experience only - and of a time long gone :) 

> We can expand the text suggested by Pavel by adding:
> * links to nice tutorials for other vms

volunteers to make the list are welcome. I cannot remember a single
example, sorry.

[nm] that's bad. If we don't know good detailed tutorials that equally
apply to us, we'd have to write one ourselves!

> * a short section to say how is a vm used with a couple of examples;
> this won't take too much effort/maintenance but would be a nice clear
> intro, that's not another click away on some site of another project

do "Harmony in Eclipse" and "DRLVM Command-line Tutorial" solve the
problem?

[nm] see my other response to you on the same thread.

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > Nadya,
> > 
> > One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
> content
> > and write something like following:
> > 
> > "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> > implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
link
> to
> > readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> commonly
> > used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> Salikh's
> > page or to the document)."
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > Good day to you, Egor!
> > >
> > > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> > >
> > > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> > >
> > > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates
near
> > > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> > > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> > > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> > >
> > > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
> Pavel
> > > Ozhdikhin here.
> > >
> > > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
> from
> > > him:
> > > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
> with
> > > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
> the
> > > desired TLP :)
> > > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
reported
> > > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> > > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
> list :)
> > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Nadya Morozova
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
> is
> > > > outdated
>

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Egor, 
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions of
various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's more
of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How to
write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM Command-line
Args Tutorial"?

As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on another
page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short
howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options, solving
typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. 
Does anybody volunteer to help?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Alexei,
> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours
is
> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.

we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)

> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to
help
> though.

well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
some contraversal inside me..fighting..done

let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> outdated
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need
the
> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> 
>   +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> 
> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony
for
> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> 
> With best regards,
> Alexei Fedotov,
> Intel Java & XML Engineering
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> >outdated
> >
> >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> >> Nadya,
> >>
> >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
> >content
> >> and write something like following:
> >>
> >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
> link to
> >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> >commonly
> >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> >Salikh's
> >> page or to the document)."
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >
> >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> Pavel
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> >> >
> >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> >> >
> >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> >> >
> >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates
near
> >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> >> >
> >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
> Pavel
> >> > Ozhdikhin here.
> >> >
> >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
> from
> >> > him:
> >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
> with
> >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get
to
> the
> >> > desired TLP :)
> >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
> reported
> >> > to the maili

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Geir, all,
I did not mean to delete info that is relevant. It's just that the old
getting started is old and not so good. Specifics: 
- all cmd options are out of date; recent options are stored on wiki and
explained in jit-related docs (we'll seem them once the unresolved jiras
are applied); old stuff should be deleted
- working with eclipse scenarios are now huge (too many screenshots with
little value) and give info not related to our project; we decided to
remove the bulk of screenshots and info that is about eclipse and not
about us; the drlvm+eclipse specifics will be stored on the page devoted
to eclipse - so we keep the important stuff and send readers to
eclipse.org for eclipse generics - a patch is now available and I also
launched a poll to see if anyone has info to share.
- many specific items are out of date 

If you go over the content of the old getting started doc and flesh out
all the unneeded stuff, it only leaves a small heap of useful info. We
shall try not to lose those bits. 
I also got it that we'll have some getting started info, but probably
different from what we used to have. I'd try my best to produce a draft
next week, but I'm not a guru to know what a tutorial for beginners
should include :(

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:55 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated



Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> Alexei,
> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours
is
> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to
help
> though.

Isn't that what the getting started page for DRLVM is?  why take 
information away?  I agre, we should clean things up if they are wrong, 
but as long as it's organized, we should keep stuff.

geir

> 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> outdated
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need
the
> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> 
>   +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> 
> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony
for
> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> 
> With best regards,
> Alexei Fedotov,
> Intel Java & XML Engineering
> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> outdated
>>
>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>>> Nadya,
>>>
>>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
>> content
>>> and write something like following:
>>>
>>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
>>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
> link to
>>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
>> commonly
>>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
>> Salikh's
>>> page or to the document)."
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Pavel
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>> Good day to you, Egor!
>>>> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>>>>
>>>>> What do you say about the getting started doc?
>>>> I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
>>>> the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
>>>> extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
>>>> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
>>>>
>>>> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
> Pavel
>>>> Ozhdikhin here.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvem

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours is
ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to help

though.


Isn't that what the getting started page for DRLVM is?  why take 
information away?  I agre, we should clean things up if they are wrong, 
but as long as it's organized, we should keep stuff.


geir



Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM

To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:

Nadya,

One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current

content

and write something like following:

"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes

link to

readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For

commonly

used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to

Salikh's

page or to the document)."

What do you think?

1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)


Thanks,
Pavel


On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Good day to you, Egor!

evening, dark and snowy evening :)


What do you say about the getting started doc?

I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).

I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to

Pavel

Ozhdikhin here.

BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement

from

him:
1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it

with

links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to

the

desired TLP :)
2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be

reported

to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
"support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing

list

:)

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"

is

outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site

-

there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether

we

need

yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I

hope

the

starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.

However,

adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.

Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.

There,

you can tell people to go download,

build

the

code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
wiki pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following

options...

If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
component page. If no website page contains an

answer

-

they can read wiki faqa.
.. or something like that :)

Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke

up

and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And

could

not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side

collection

of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level

navigation

and contains almost all links you listed here.

This was a really refreshing morning :)

I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel

about

the

site. And will report back, if I find something.

Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..


Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, Nov

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

We did put *some* thought into it ;)

geir

Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 


Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
you can tell people to go download, build the
code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
wiki pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
component page. If no website page contains an answer -
they can read wiki faqa. 
.. or something like that :) 


Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.

This was a really refreshing morning :)

I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
site. And will report back, if I find something.

Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-

From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:

On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Egor,
+1 for
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to

the

main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the

web.



We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
Why do you think we need another one?

because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
descriptions to some basic ones.


+1 for

* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
"supported" intentionally)
Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What

about

JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?


I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only

those

that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is

in

the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.

I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 


So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.

I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"

The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.

Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?

BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit


Thanks,
Pavel

Thank you,

Nadya Morozova

-----Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:

All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated

Getting

Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as

such.

We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and

update

individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the

page.

I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a

newbie

work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other

things

- conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we

should

also

think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only*

doc

that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to

down

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> +1 for having some getting started info on a separate page. 
> There are some things that need to stand out promptly, and probably
> newbie info is one of them (I mean, I'd want to have such a page when I
> got started with this project). 

you mean, the left-side collection _does not suit_ as "getting started"
info? To me it is fine, I am a bad judge here though (far from beginner)

> We can expand the text suggested by Pavel by adding:
> * links to nice tutorials for other vms

volunteers to make the list are welcome. I cannot remember a single
example, sorry.

> * a short section to say how is a vm used with a couple of examples;
> this won't take too much effort/maintenance but would be a nice clear
> intro, that's not another click away on some site of another project

do "Harmony in Eclipse" and "DRLVM Command-line Tutorial" solve the problem?

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > Nadya,
> > 
> > One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
> content
> > and write something like following:
> > 
> > "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> > implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link
> to
> > readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> commonly
> > used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> Salikh's
> > page or to the document)."
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > Good day to you, Egor!
> > >
> > > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> > >
> > > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> > >
> > > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
> > > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> > > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> > > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> > >
> > > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
> Pavel
> > > Ozhdikhin here.
> > >
> > > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
> from
> > > him:
> > > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
> with
> > > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
> the
> > > desired TLP :)
> > > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
> > > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> > > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
> list :)
> > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Nadya Morozova
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> > > > outdated
> > > >
> > > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > > Egor,
> > > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
> -
> > > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
> we need
> > > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope
> the
> > > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
> However,
> > > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
> There,
> > > > > you can tell people to go download,
> build
> > > > the
> > > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> &g

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Alexei,
> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours is
> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.

we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)

> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to help
> though.

well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :)
some contraversal inside me..fighting..done

let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then
"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
> 
>   +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
> 
> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> 
> With best regards,
> Alexei Fedotov,
> Intel Java & XML Engineering
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> >outdated
> >
> >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> >> Nadya,
> >>
> >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
> >content
> >> and write something like following:
> >>
> >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
> link to
> >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
> >commonly
> >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
> >Salikh's
> >> page or to the document)."
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >
> >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> Pavel
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> >> >
> >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> >> >
> >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> >> >
> >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
> >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> >> >
> >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
> Pavel
> >> > Ozhdikhin here.
> >> >
> >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
> from
> >> > him:
> >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
> with
> >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
> the
> >> > desired TLP :)
> >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
> reported
> >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
> list
> >:)
> >> >
> >> > > Thank you,
> >> > > Nadya Morozova
> >> > >
> >> > > -Original Message-
> >> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> >> > > outdated
> >> > >
> >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> > > > Egor,
> >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
>

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

+1 to write a new getting started page. 

Distribution of its old content:
- start an application: same as in other vms, might not need it
- start an app in eclipse, 
- debug an app in eclipse: nowhere, need to expand the Working with
Eclipse page instead
- cmd options: wiki page 
Did I miss anything? 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:19 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Nadya,

One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
content
and write something like following:

"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link
to
readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
commonly
used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
Salikh's
page or to the document)."

What do you think?

Thanks,
Pavel


On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Good day to you, Egor!
>
> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>
> > What do you say about the getting started doc?
>
> I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
> the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
>
> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to Pavel
> Ozhdikhin here.
>
> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
> him:
> 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it with
> links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to the
> desired TLP :)
> 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
> to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing list
:)
>
> > Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> >
> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > Egor,
> > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we
need
> > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope
the
> > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
> > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
> > >
> > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
There,
> > > you can tell people to go download,
build
> > the
> > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> > > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> > > wiki pages.
> > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> > > component page. If no website page contains an answer
-
> > > they can read wiki faqa.
> > > .. or something like that :)
> >
> > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
> > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
> > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side
collection
> > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
> > and contains almost all links you listed here.
> >
> > This was a really refreshing morning :)
> >
> > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about
the
> > site. And will report back, if I find something.
> >
> > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
> >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > > > On 11/9/06, Moroz

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

+1 for having some getting started info on a separate page. 
There are some things that need to stand out promptly, and probably
newbie info is one of them (I mean, I'd want to have such a page when I
got started with this project). 

We can expand the text suggested by Pavel by adding:
* links to nice tutorials for other vms
* a short section to say how is a vm used with a couple of examples;
this won't take too much effort/maintenance but would be a nice clear
intro, that's not another click away on some site of another project

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> Nadya,
> 
> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
content
> and write something like following:
> 
> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link
to
> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
commonly
> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
Salikh's
> page or to the document)."
> 
> What do you think?

1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> 
> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> >
> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> >
> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> >
> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> >
> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
Pavel
> > Ozhdikhin here.
> >
> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
from
> > him:
> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
with
> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
the
> > desired TLP :)
> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
list :)
> >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > Egor,
> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
-
> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
we need
> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope
the
> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
> > > >
> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
There,
> > > > you can tell people to go download,
build
> > > the
> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> > > > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> > > > wiki pages.
> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
options...
> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> > > > component page. If no website page contains an
answer -
> > > > they can read wiki faqa.
> > > > .. or something like that :)
> > >
> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke
up
> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And
could
> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side
collection
> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level
navigation
> > > and contains almost all links you listed here.
> > >
> > > This was a really refreshing morning :)

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours is
ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day. 
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to help
though.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering

>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>> Nadya,
>>
>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
>content
>> and write something like following:
>>
>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
link to
>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
>commonly
>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
>Salikh's
>> page or to the document)."
>>
>> What do you think?
>
>1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>
>> Thanks,
>> Pavel
>>
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >
>> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > Good day to you, Egor!
>> >
>> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>> >
>> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
>> >
>> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
>> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
>> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
>> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
>> >
>> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
Pavel
>> > Ozhdikhin here.
>> >
>> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
from
>> > him:
>> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
with
>> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
the
>> > desired TLP :)
>> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
reported
>> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
>> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
list
>:)
>> >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > > Nadya Morozova
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> > > outdated
>> > >
>> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > > Egor,
>> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
-
>> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
we
>need
>> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I
hope
>the
>> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
>> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>> > > >
>> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
>There,
>> > > > you can tell people to go download,
build
>> > > the
>> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
>> > > > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
>> > > > wiki pages.
>> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
options...
>> > > > If they wan

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Fedotov, Alexei A]

Guys,

I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.

+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes

Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.

With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering

>-Original Message-
>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>> Nadya,
>>
>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
>content
>> and write something like following:
>>
>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
link to
>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
>commonly
>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
>Salikh's
>> page or to the document)."
>>
>> What do you think?
>
>1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>
>> Thanks,
>> Pavel
>>
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >
>> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > Good day to you, Egor!
>> >
>> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>> >
>> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
>> >
>> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
>> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
>> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
>> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
>> >
>> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
Pavel
>> > Ozhdikhin here.
>> >
>> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
from
>> > him:
>> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
with
>> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
the
>> > desired TLP :)
>> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
reported
>> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
>> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
list
>:)
>> >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > > Nadya Morozova
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> > > outdated
>> > >
>> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> > > > Egor,
>> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
-
>> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
we
>need
>> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I
hope
>the
>> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
>> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>> > > >
>> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
>There,
>> > > > you can tell people to go download,
build
>> > > the
>> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
>> > > > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
>> > > > wiki pages.
>> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
options...
>> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
>> > > > component page. If no website page contains an
answer
>-
>> > > > they can read wiki faqa.
>> > > > .. or something like that :)
>> > >
>> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke
up
>> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And
could
>> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side
collection
>> > > of links is in a very good shap

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> Nadya,
> 
> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current content
> and write something like following:
> 
> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link to
> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For commonly
> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to Salikh's
> page or to the document)."
> 
> What do you think?

1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> 
> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> >
> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> >
> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> >
> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
> >
> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to Pavel
> > Ozhdikhin here.
> >
> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
> > him:
> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it with
> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to the
> > desired TLP :)
> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing list :)
> >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > Egor,
> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
> > > >
> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> > > > you can tell people to go download, build
> > > the
> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> > > > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> > > > wiki pages.
> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> > > > component page. If no website page contains an answer -
> > > > they can read wiki faqa.
> > > > .. or something like that :)
> > >
> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
> > > and contains almost all links you listed here.
> > >
> > > This was a really refreshing morning :)
> > >
> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
> > > site. And will report back, if I find something.
> > >
> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
> > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Nadya Morozova
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > > > outdated
> > > >
> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > > > > On 11/

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Pavel Ozhdikhin]

Nadya,

One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current content
and write something like following:

"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link to
readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For commonly
used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to Salikh's
page or to the document)."

What do you think?

Thanks,
Pavel


On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Good day to you, Egor!

evening, dark and snowy evening :)

> What do you say about the getting started doc?

I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).

I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to Pavel
Ozhdikhin here.

BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
him:
1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it with
links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to the
desired TLP :)
2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
"support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing list :)

> Thank you,
> Nadya Morozova
>
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
>
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Egor,
> > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
> >
> > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> > you can tell people to go download, build
> the
> > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> > wiki pages.
> > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> > component page. If no website page contains an answer -
> > they can read wiki faqa.
> > .. or something like that :)
>
> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
> and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
> not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
> of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
> and contains almost all links you listed here.
>
> This was a really refreshing morning :)
>
> I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
> site. And will report back, if I find something.
>
> Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
>
> > Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> >
> > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Egor,
> > > > +1 for
> > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> > the
> > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site
> Map"
> > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in
> the
> > web.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > > Why do you think we need another one?
> >
> > because it is only DRLVM.
> > I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
> > descriptions to some basic ones.
> >
> > >
> > > +1 for
> > > > * preparing the &q

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Good day to you, Egor! 

evening, dark and snowy evening :)

> What do you say about the getting started doc?

I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).

I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to Pavel
Ozhdikhin here.

BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from
him:
1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it with
links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to the
desired TLP :)
2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported
to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
"support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing list :)

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > Egor,
> > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 
> > 
> > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> > you can tell people to go download, build
> the
> > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> > RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> > wiki pages.
> > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> > component page. If no website page contains an answer -
> > they can read wiki faqa. 
> > .. or something like that :) 
> 
> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
> and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
> not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
> of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
> and contains almost all links you listed here.
> 
> This was a really refreshing morning :)
> 
> I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
> site. And will report back, if I find something.
> 
> Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
> 
> > Thank you, 
> > Nadya Morozova
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> > 
> > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Egor,
> > > > +1 for
> > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> > the
> > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site
> Map"
> > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in
> the
> > web.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > > Why do you think we need another one?
> > 
> > because it is only DRLVM.
> > I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
> > descriptions to some basic ones.
> > 
> > > 
> > > +1 for
> > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the
> word
> > > > "supported" intentionally)
> > > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
> > about
> > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have
> separate
> > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I think we can describe basic options for every component there.
> Only
> > those
> > > that might be interesti

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Good day to you, Egor! 
What do you say about the getting started doc?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Egor,
> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 
> 
> Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> you can tell people to go download, build
the
> code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> wiki pages.
> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> component page. If no website page contains an answer -
> they can read wiki faqa. 
> .. or something like that :) 

Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.

This was a really refreshing morning :)

I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
site. And will report back, if I find something.

Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Egor,
> > > +1 for
> > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> the
> > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site
Map"
> > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in
the
> web.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > Why do you think we need another one?
> 
> because it is only DRLVM.
> I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
> descriptions to some basic ones.
> 
> > 
> > +1 for
> > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the
word
> > > "supported" intentionally)
> > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
> about
> > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have
separate
> > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> > 
> > 
> > I think we can describe basic options for every component there.
Only
> those
> > that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options
is
> in
> > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.
> 
> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 
> 
> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
> 
> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> 
> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
> 
> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?
> 
> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
&g

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Egor,
> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 
> 
> Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> you can tell people to go download, build the
> code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> wiki pages.
> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> component page. If no website page contains an answer -
> they can read wiki faqa. 
> .. or something like that :) 

Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.

This was a really refreshing morning :)

I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
site. And will report back, if I find something.

Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Egor,
> > > +1 for
> > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> the
> > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the
> web.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > Why do you think we need another one?
> 
> because it is only DRLVM.
> I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
> descriptions to some basic ones.
> 
> > 
> > +1 for
> > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > > "supported" intentionally)
> > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
> about
> > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
> > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> > 
> > 
> > I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only
> those
> > that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is
> in
> > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.
> 
> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 
> 
> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
> 
> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> 
> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
> 
> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?
> 
> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > On the 0x21B day of Apache 

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 

Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
you can tell people to go download, build the
code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
RI-compatible jdk. With the exceptions, see our
wiki pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
component page. If no website page contains an answer -
they can read wiki faqa. 
.. or something like that :) 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Egor,
> > +1 for
> > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
the
> > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the
web.
> 
> 
> 
> We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> Why do you think we need another one?

because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
descriptions to some basic ones.

> 
> +1 for
> > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > "supported" intentionally)
> > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
about
> > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
> > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> 
> 
> I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only
those
> that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is
in
> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.

I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 

So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.

I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"

The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.

Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?

BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> >
> > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > All,
> > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated
Getting
> > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
> > such.
> > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and
update
> > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the
page.
> > >
> > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a
newbie
> > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
> > things
> > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we
should
> > also
> > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only*
doc
> > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to
download
> > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with
the
> > > exception of EM/JIT).
> > >
> > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tel

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Salikh Zakirov]

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
>   "supported" intentionally)
> Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What about
> JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
> docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?

I suggest that the maintainers of the respective components add their favourite
options to the page 

   http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/DrlvmCommandLineOptions

(I've just linked it from the front page, and stuffed some easy stuff I know).

After (and if) the content comes to a reasonable shape, Nadya may consider
rewriting it as a permanent web site page. However, I suspect that rate of 
changing
of command line options is a little bit too fast to be tracked by "hard" 
documentation.

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Egor,
> > +1 for
> > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
> > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.
> 
> 
> 
> We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> Why do you think we need another one?

because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
descriptions to some basic ones.

> 
> +1 for
> > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > "supported" intentionally)
> > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What about
> > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
> > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> 
> 
> I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only those
> that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is in
> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.

I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 

So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.

I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"

The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.

Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?

BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> >
> > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > All,
> > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
> > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
> > such.
> > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
> > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.
> > >
> > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
> > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
> > things
> > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should
> > also
> > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
> > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
> > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
> > > exception of EM/JIT).
> > >
> > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
> > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
> > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> > > emotional :)
> >
> > Nadya,
> >
> > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
> > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that
> > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
> >
> > So, I vote for:
> > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows
> > screenshots:)
> > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > "supported" intentionally)
> >
> > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
> > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.
> >

Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Pavel Ozhdikhin]

On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Egor,
+1 for
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.




We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
Why do you think we need another one?


+1 for

* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
"supported" intentionally)
Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What about
JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?



I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only those
that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is in
the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.

Thanks,
Pavel

Thank you,

Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> All,
> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
such.
> We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
> individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.
>
> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
> work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
things
> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should
also
> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
> exception of EM/JIT).
>
> My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> emotional :)

Nadya,

I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that
all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.

So, I vote for:
* removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows
screenshots:)
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
"supported" intentionally)

Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
>
> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it
:)
> More problems:
> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
> able
> to run the same apps as RI..
> ?
>
> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > DRL<
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >"
> > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
> example:
> >
> >
> >- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> >- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
> anymore
> >to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
> any
> > other
> >VM.
> >- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
> on
> >Windows/MSVC
> >- ij was renamed to java
> >
> > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> > removing
> > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> > command-line
> > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> >
> > Any opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > <
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mikhail Fursov
>

--
Egor Pasko

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

yah, I've been pitching them when i run across them... :)

geir

Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

Those were the copyrights required by our legal at the donation time. I
share your concern. We probably need a massive review/cleanup of our
legal lines. The disclaimers (number and placement) varies between
different docs.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 


-Original Message-
From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:22 AM

To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Nadya,

I have failed to find web pages copyrighted by IBM on Apache using
Google. Apache copyright usually contains no more than two lines. This
page has fourty lines of legal staff. Is it really needed?

Thanks!


On 11/8/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as

such.

We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.

I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other

things

- conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should

also

think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
exception of EM/JIT).

My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
emotional :)

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it

:)

More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
able
to run the same apps as RI..
?

On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello all,
I've read through the "Getting Started with
DRL<


http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.

html

"

document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for

example:


   - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
   - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them

anymore

   to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with

any

other
   VM.
   - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least

on

   Windows/MSVC
   - ij was renamed to java

We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
removing
all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
command-line
options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Pavel
<


http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.

html




--
Mikhail Fursov

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Those were the copyrights required by our legal at the donation time. I
share your concern. We probably need a massive review/cleanup of our
legal lines. The disclaimers (number and placement) varies between
different docs.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:22 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

Nadya,

I have failed to find web pages copyrighted by IBM on Apache using
Google. Apache copyright usually contains no more than two lines. This
page has fourty lines of legal staff. Is it really needed?

Thanks!


On 11/8/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All,
> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
such.
> We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
> individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.
>
> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
> work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
things
> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should
also
> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
> exception of EM/JIT).
>
> My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> emotional :)
>
> Thank you,
> Nadya Morozova
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
>
> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it
:)
> More problems:
> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
> able
> to run the same apps as RI..
> ?
>
> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > DRL<
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >"
> > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
> example:
> >
> >
> >- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> >- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
> anymore
> >to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
> any
> > other
> >VM.
> >- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
> on
> >Windows/MSVC
> >- ij was renamed to java
> >
> > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> > removing
> > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> > command-line
> > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> >
> > Any opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > <
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mikhail Fursov
>


-- 
Thank you,
Alexei

RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

Egor, 
+1 for 
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.

+1 for 
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
  "supported" intentionally)
Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What about
JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> All,
> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
such.
> We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
> individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.
> 
> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
> work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
things
> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should
also
> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
> exception of EM/JIT). 
> 
> My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> emotional :)

Nadya,

I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that
all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.

So, I vote for:
* removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows
  screenshots:)
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
  "supported" intentionally)

Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it
:)
> More problems:
> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
> able
> to run the same apps as RI..
> ?
> 
> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > DRL<
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >"
> > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
> example:
> >
> >
> >- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> >- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
> anymore
> >to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
> any
> > other
> >VM.
> >- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
> on
> >Windows/MSVC
> >- ij was renamed to java
> >
> > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> > removing
> > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> > command-line
> > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> >
> > Any opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > <
> >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mikhail Fursov
> 

-- 
Egor Pasko

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Egor Pasko]

On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> All,
> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as such.
> We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
> individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.
> 
> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
> work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other things
> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should also
> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
> exception of EM/JIT). 
> 
> My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> emotional :)

Nadya,

I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that
all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.

So, I vote for:
* removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows
  screenshots:)
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
  "supported" intentionally)

Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to the
main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the web.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it :)
> More problems:
> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
> able
> to run the same apps as RI..
> ?
> 
> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > DRL<
> >
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >"
> > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
> example:
> >
> >
> >- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> >- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
> anymore
> >to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
> any
> > other
> >VM.
> >- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
> on
> >Windows/MSVC
> >- ij was renamed to java
> >
> > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> > removing
> > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> > command-line
> > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> >
> > Any opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > <
> >
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mikhail Fursov
> 

-- 
Egor Pasko

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Alexei Fedotov]

Nadya,

I have failed to find web pages copyrighted by IBM on Apache using
Google. Apache copyright usually contains no more than two lines. This
page has fourty lines of legal staff. Is it really needed?

Thanks!


On 11/8/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as such.
We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.

I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other things
- conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should also
think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
exception of EM/JIT).

My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
emotional :)

Thank you,
Nadya Morozova

-Original Message-
From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it :)
More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
able
to run the same apps as RI..
?

On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've read through the "Getting Started with
> DRL<
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html
> >"
> document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
example:
>
>
>- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
anymore
>to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
any
> other
>VM.
>- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
on
>Windows/MSVC
>- ij was renamed to java
>
> We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> removing
> all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> command-line
> options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
> <
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html
> >
>
>


--
Mikhail Fursov




--
Thank you,
Alexei

RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Morozova, Nadezhda]

All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated Getting
Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as such.
We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and update
individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the page.

I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a newbie
work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other things
- conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we should also
think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* doc
that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to download
and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with the
exception of EM/JIT). 

My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people about
usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on the
page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
emotional :)

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-Original Message-
From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it :)
More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is
able
to run the same apps as RI..
?

On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've read through the "Getting Started with
> DRL<
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html
> >"
> document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for
example:
>
>
>- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need them
anymore
>to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with
any
> other
>VM.
>- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least
on
>Windows/MSVC
>- ij was renamed to java
>
> We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
> removing
> all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> command-line
> options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
> Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
> <
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html
> >
>
>


-- 
Mikhail Fursov

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Mikhail Fursov]

It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support it :)
More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony VM is able
to run the same apps as RI..
?

On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello all,
I've read through the "Getting Started with
DRL<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.html
>"
document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for example:


   - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
   - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete – we don't need them anymore
   to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with any
other
   VM.
   - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least on
   Windows/MSVC
   - ij was renamed to java

We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After
removing
all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
command-line
options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Pavel
<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.html
>





--
Mikhail Fursov

Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated

[Alexey Petrenko]

Pavel,

JIRA and patch are welcome :)

SY, Alexey

2006/11/8, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hello all,
I've read through the "Getting Started with
DRL"
document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, for example:


  - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
  - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete – we don't need them anymore
  to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as with any other
  VM.
  - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at least on
  Windows/MSVC
  - ij was renamed to java

We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. After removing
all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of command-line
options. I think we can move this list to a separate document (Wiki,
Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Pavel