Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Hiran Venugopalan wrote:

> On 14 May 2010 13:00, nishandh M  wrote:
> > @Jinesh, I am understanding the evils of RTF more and more, hope we are
> > working out the policy of not using RTF.Evevnthough I look like
> > "thallandammaavaa njan nannavillaha",
>
> Simple.
>
> Your first mail to Subject : Linux haters blog looks like this
> http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6861/screenshot1uz.png
> in gmail's terminal theme (which praveen a uses). READ. I can't still
> stop my laugh over seeing the term readability in that image!
>

:D terrible. But are you describing the part with green text over black
background?
And those portion with 'bold' certainly looks more readable in the image you
send.

@Hiran When we are trying to discuss about clarity, it would be better to
send a better resolution snap shot.Or is it the graphics driver is not very
functional in that system.I belive fonts are scalable as in SVG. or is it
the problem with screenshot tool in gnome?please send something non-lossy
compressed.

>
>
>
> --
> Hiran Venugopalan
> Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
> IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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#//#
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Ashik S  wrote:
> > Of course. As I said I was merely expressing my views. I didnt ask anyone
> to accept it, nor to abide by it. I think Rajeev mentioned Multipart emails.
> I do not know what that is, but from what he describes, its looks useful.
>
>
> Hi Aashik,
>
> The multipart email bit was an insider joke :D I really doubt
> "non-techies" can send multipart emails very easily ;)
>
Adoption of technology is a selling point. We know of Googles principles. If
the technology is got something good, service providers are gonna implement
it. May be we would say "nops, only plaint text in here" when it arrives in
an easy way,as to be send by newbies.

>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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>



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#//#

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Ashik S  wrote:
> Of course. As I said I was merely expressing my views. I didnt ask anyone to 
> accept it, nor to abide by it. I think Rajeev mentioned Multipart emails. I 
> do not know what that is, but from what he describes, its looks useful.


Hi Aashik,

The multipart email bit was an insider joke :D I really doubt
"non-techies" can send multipart emails very easily ;)

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/17 Ashik S :
> Of course. As I said I was merely expressing my views. I didnt ask anyone to 
> accept it, nor to abide by it. I think Rajeev mentioned Multipart emails. I 
> do not know what that is, but from what he describes, its looks useful.

http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt5/html-email-multi.htm
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Ashik S]

Of course. As I said I was merely expressing my views. I didnt ask anyone to 
accept it, nor to abide by it. I think Rajeev mentioned Multipart emails. I do 
not know what that is, but from what he describes, its looks useful.

--
aashik

-- 
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/14 Rahul Ramesh :
> Aashik,
> Dont take this in a bad sense but You are being Bossy.

That is what I was telling on the other thread.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/17 ashik salahudeen :
> Thread is still open for discussion. I was merely expressing my views. As
> said elsewhere mod hats are on only for a short while and will be explicitly
> made clear when they are on. The thing is, the purpose here is not clear at
> all - what exactly is being achieved here ?

Now there is evaluation and rating for threads too? We are having a
dialogue here. The thread will stop when it falls to a monologue.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
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"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/17 bipin kumar :
> i am just asking what this thread is attempting to accomplish? to
> establish mailing list rules when there good set of rules already
> existing in place? what's the point in that?

I always think it is better to understand why not RTF and not using
it, than just blindly following the guidelines. If some newbies want
clarification or understand why there is such a rule, what is the
problem with that?

One newbie is trying to understand why RTF is not allowed and trying
to come up with ways to overcome the stated limitations (if possible).
I believe it is much more effective to talk to newbies than try to
silence him or her. If you don't want to contribute to a thread, just
don't do it. Why should every one blindly accept a guideline? Isn't
better if he or she understand the rationale and follow it?
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Hiran Venugopalan]

On 14 May 2010 13:00, nishandh M  wrote:
> @Jinesh, I am understanding the evils of RTF more and more, hope we are
> working out the policy of not using RTF.Evevnthough I look like
> "thallandammaavaa njan nannavillaha",

Simple.

Your first mail to Subject : Linux haters blog looks like this
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6861/screenshot1uz.png
in gmail's terminal theme (which praveen a uses). READ. I can't still
stop my laugh over seeing the term readability in that image!



-- 
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rahul Ramesh]

Aashik,

Dont take this in a bad sense but You are being Bossy.

--
Rahul

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:31 PM, ashik salahudeen  wrote:

> I havent had access to broadbamd all these days and wasn't checking
> the ilug-tvm discussions. After reading through all the emails i have
> come to the conclusion that this thread should stop here.
>
> The only people who contributed constructively would be Praveen,
> Rajeev J Sebastian and nishandh in that order. Thank you Praveen for
> your patience and time - yours was the best way to approach the issue.
> Nishandh please do come up with a draft and start a different thread.
> Rajeev your views are valid but involve some learning curve - its not
> the way of cry babies but of dedicated, committed users. Its sad that
> not many on the list agreed and went so far as to call for bans. Blind
> righteousness seemed to be the order of the day.
>
> rest of the members , this is your admin speaking. usage of terms such
> as WTF and RTFM are fine by the list. unless otherwise used in a
> derogatory manner its fine. Words take meaning from the context and
> not from the dictionary. Jemshid and others it would be nice if you
> can read more about history of FOSS especially that of gnu , linux and
> bsds. Seriously.
>
> One more thing. Please try to use plain text while emailing to this
> list. As explained a while ago in other threads the rules are not
> strictly enforced because we dont want to turn away new users. But
> after you have been told about the rule explicitly its not a nice
> thing to keep violating it in the name of freedom. Obey them as you
> would obey the traffic rules - they are in place for a purpose.
>
>
> Any further replies to this thread will be met with moderation.
>
> --
> Aashik
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[bipin kumar]

i am just asking what this thread is attempting to accomplish? to
establish mailing list rules when there good set of rules already
existing in place? what's the point in that?

On May 17, 3:12 am, Praveen A  wrote:
> 2010/5/16 bipin kumar :
>
> > forgive me if i am wrong. isn't this discussion thread attempting to
> > reinventing the wheel? the mailing list practices have been in place
> > in last 2 last as far as i know and those rule hold still true in
> > todays environment as well. further standardizing mailing list
> > practices is not the primary objective of this group. hence is there
> > any significance in continuing this thread? better we put our energy
> > in doing other constructive things in the area of open source
>
> Bipin,
>
> As long as people respond, a thread will continue. I don't think
> anyone needs to forcefully stop a thread as long as people are
> responding and the thread is on topic (or clearly marked off topic).
> People can skip threads looking at subjects (meaningful subjects are a
> pre condition to that). I'm getting head ache reading some of the
> mails in this thread, but may be because it is too late in the night.
>
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[ashik salahudeen]

Thread is still open for discussion. I was merely expressing my views. As
said elsewhere mod hats are on only for a short while and will be explicitly
made clear when they are on. The thing is, the purpose here is not clear at
all - what exactly is being achieved here ?

On May 17, 2010 3:46 AM, "Praveen A"  wrote:

2010/5/16 ashik salahudeen :

> I dont think > we need anything extra here.
mod seems to be in mood :) Should we arbitrarily limit this list? I
feel much more comfortable with the mood of the other mod.

-- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍  I know my rights; I want my phone
call!  What use is a...

"Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You
received this message b...

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/16 ashik salahudeen :
>  I dont think
> we need anything extra here.

mod seems to be in mood :) Should we arbitrarily limit this list? I
feel much more comfortable with the mood of the other mod.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/16 bipin kumar :
> forgive me if i am wrong. isn't this discussion thread attempting to
> reinventing the wheel? the mailing list practices have been in place
> in last 2 last as far as i know and those rule hold still true in
> todays environment as well. further standardizing mailing list
> practices is not the primary objective of this group. hence is there
> any significance in continuing this thread? better we put our energy
> in doing other constructive things in the area of open source

Bipin,

As long as people respond, a thread will continue. I don't think
anyone needs to forcefully stop a thread as long as people are
responding and the thread is on topic (or clearly marked off topic).
People can skip threads looking at subjects (meaningful subjects are a
pre condition to that). I'm getting head ache reading some of the
mails in this thread, but may be because it is too late in the night.

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Srihari k  wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs
> to
> > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
> >
> > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the
> busy
> > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some
> emphasis
> > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
> >
> > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > etc
>
> *bold* /italics/ _underline_  -- this much stuff would be enough for a
> mailing list i suppose. This ain't a love letter to be colorful.
>
> [snip]
> >
> > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the
> communications
> > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of
> 21st
> > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years]
> Everybody
> > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force
> it.
>
> DONT YOU DARE call my phone stone age.Though it is a low-end nokia
> phone.It _definitely_ compliant to the '''21st century protocols'''.
>
@think about the context.Is your fone compliant with internet protocols?

>
> forgot to say BOLD TEXT is supposed to be shouting.
>
> > Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
> > 'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had
> 'bold's
> > in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
> > beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very
> productive
> > improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.
>
>
>
> --
> Srihari K
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs
> to
> > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
> >
> > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the
> busy
> > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some
> emphasis
> > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
> >
> > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > etc
> > Part of these methods add additional 'text tags' or non readable 'format
> > data' to the paragraph. [a paragraph in terms of text renderers is a
> string
> > of letters, which continues until we press 'enter' key.A new paragraph is
> > born when 'enter' is pressed. Here the paragraph is different from its
> > conventional literary sense.'Shift+Enter' is the right way to make a
> > literary paragraph]
>
> Not sure where you learned this, but in most software pressing Enter
> starts a new paragraph, whereas Shift-Enter simply starts a new line.
> For e.g., OOo 3.1.1 has that behaviour. If you turn on "Non-printing
> characters" in the View menu, you can easily see the Pilcrow at the
> end of paragraphs and a Line Feed character at the end of forced line
> breaks.
>
> >
> > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the
> communications
> > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of
> 21st
> > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years]
> Everybody
> > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force
> it.
> >
>
> You have been given some options to do this. You could for e.g., write
> a blog post with all the formatting you want, and post a link here to
> the list. Or you can exploit "21st century" or in fact 20th century
> protocols, and include multipart email messages, with a plain text
> version, an RTF version and an HTML version.

@Rajiv You are saying you never read or retain a comprehension about the
full thread? atleast before answering? Messages which senses the accessing
the module was a suggestion. Let full message remain at mail service
provider, and compliant form be send to the accessing system, whether it is
mobile or browser or CLI.

>


> As far as you not using modern medical technology, well, you are
> endangering yourself and in some ways, endangering the rest of society
> as well. But you are free to damage your fellow man in any way you
> want.
>
"But you are free to damage your fellow man" is exactly the expected reply.

>
>
> > 
> >
> > Consolidation regarding RTF-HTML / Plain text usage:
> >
> >
> > Do not use any formating which adds additional characters to the original
> > text, which gets displayed in the less-able software systems.
> > As far as I know, BOLD and ITALIC adds no additional visible characters
> in
> > such scenarios. These can be used in a positive way. As it consumes time
> and
> > effort to differentiate parts of text, it would be recommended only at
> > special circumsatnces.
> > Like the following: the posts are very long, but cutting it short
> > compromises readability of non-expert user .
> >
>
> Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If it was to establish
> your identity, then hey, you've done it. Now, we all know who
> "nishandh" is and how much he has contributed to making this a sane
> mailing list, especially his contributions in formalizing something
> we've all known for years.
>
> Thank You!
>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Srihari k  wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs
> to
> > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
> >
> > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the
> busy
> > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some
> emphasis
> > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
> >
> > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > etc
>
> *bold* /italics/ _underline_  -- this much stuff would be enough for a
> mailing list i suppose. This ain't a love letter to be colorful.
>
:) Yeah, that is what am speaking about. Attitude that a Mailing List need
not be colorful. please consider the population.
'
there has been opinion that *bold* /italics/ _underline_  is irritating. so
I have to continue with it.

>
> [snip]
> >
> > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the
> communications
> > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of
> 21st
> > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years]
> Everybody
> > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force
> it.
>
> DONT YOU DARE call my phone stone age.Though it is a low-end nokia
> phone.It _definitely_ compliant to the '''21st century protocols'''.
>
> forgot to say BOLD TEXT is supposed to be shouting.
>
"All correct" is expressed as OK and not 'ok' and i think unless its a file
extension, its RTF and HTML

>
> > Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
> > 'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had
> 'bold's
> > in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
> > beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very
> productive
> > improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.
>
>
>
> --
> Srihari K
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs
> to
> > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
> >
> > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the
> busy
> > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some
> emphasis
> > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
> >
> > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > etc
> > Part of these methods add additional 'text tags' or non readable 'format
> > data' to the paragraph. [a paragraph in terms of text renderers is a
> string
> > of letters, which continues until we press 'enter' key.A new paragraph is
> > born when 'enter' is pressed. Here the paragraph is different from its
> > conventional literary sense.'Shift+Enter' is the right way to make a
> > literary paragraph]
>
> Not sure where you learned this, but in most software pressing Enter
> starts a new paragraph, whereas Shift-Enter simply starts a new line.
> For e.g., OOo 3.1.1 has that behaviour. If you turn on "Non-printing
> characters" in the View menu, you can easily see the Pilcrow at the
> end of paragraphs and a Line Feed character at the end of forced line
> breaks.
>

@ Rajiv  what did you correct? In the last sentance, I overlooked adding
'make up' instead of 'make' .

>
> >
> > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the
> communications
> > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of
> 21st
> > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years]
> Everybody
> > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force
> it.
> >
>
> You have been given some options to do this. You could for e.g., write
> a blog post with all the formatting you want, and post a link here to
> the list. Or you can exploit "21st century" or in fact 20th century
> protocols, and include multipart email messages, with a plain text
> version, an RTF version and an HTML version.
>
> As far as you not using modern medical technology, well, you are
> endangering yourself and in some ways, endangering the rest of society
> as well. But you are free to damage your fellow man in any way you
> want.
>
>
> > 
> >
> > Consolidation regarding RTF-HTML / Plain text usage:
> >
> >
> > Do not use any formating which adds additional characters to the original
> > text, which gets displayed in the less-able software systems.
> > As far as I know, BOLD and ITALIC adds no additional visible characters
> in
> > such scenarios. These can be used in a positive way. As it consumes time
> and
> > effort to differentiate parts of text, it would be recommended only at
> > special circumsatnces.
> > Like the following: the posts are very long, but cutting it short
> > compromises readability of non-expert user .
> >
>
> Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If it was to establish
> your identity, then hey, you've done it. Now, we all know who
> "nishandh" is and how much he has contributed to making this a sane
> mailing list, especially his contributions in formalizing something
> we've all known for years.
>
> Thank You!
>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

@Rajiv and anybody sharing similiar thoughts:

What I am trying to accomplish:

To increase user friendliness, as to increase user base.

I strongly belive, If any piece of software is to be supported by Hardware
vendors, the best way is to increase its market share(user base). And what I
am attempting is not to alter the norms of a developer mailing list for
stupid reasons. I am thinking of ways which would extend this ML to the
'ignorant' and 'idiot' user, because its a 'selling point'. Technology,
running as proof of concept will not push the hardware vendors to write
software for it, nor release SDKs or code.

I am attempting to consolidate on what I could do based on my (low)
capabilities, and which I saw nobody cared much (offcourse, as they could
accomplish better things), and what I enjoy doing. I never claimed it the
biggest contribution to this list. You may consider it, curse it, or
continue at your work based on personal perception of society. I am doing a
'sweepers' job here. And I expect this kind of replies from our society,
which hates the 'low class' jobs, nor the low class job men living a
respected life.

You may read about how 'closed groups' destroy itself.


On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Srihari k  wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:09 PM, ashik salahudeen 
> wrote:
> > Bipin is right. Just follow what is there at khandalaya.org . I dont
> think
> > we need anything extra here.
>
> +1
>  http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html is enough. It was there long before.
>
> --
> Srihari
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Srihari k]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:09 PM, ashik salahudeen  wrote:
> Bipin is right. Just follow what is there at khandalaya.org . I dont think
> we need anything extra here.

+1
 http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html is enough. It was there long before.

--
Srihari

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[ashik salahudeen]

Bipin is right. Just follow what is there at khandalaya.org . I dont think
we need anything extra here.

On May 16, 2010 8:30 PM, "bipin kumar"  wrote:

oops sorry i forgot to do a spell check before posting. please read
the line

"the mailing list practices have been in place in last 2 last as far as i
know and those rule hold...
well" as

 "the mailing list practices have been in place for last 2 decades as

far as i know and those rule hold still true in todays environment as well."

won't happen again

Bipin

On May 16, 7:54 pm, bipin kumar  wrote: > forgive me if
i am wrong. isn't this ...

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[bipin kumar]

oops sorry i forgot to do a spell check before posting. please read
the line

 "the mailing list practices have been in place in last 2 last as far
as i know and those rule hold still true in todays environment as
well" as

 "the mailing list practices have been in place for last 2 decades as
far as i know and those rule hold still true in todays environment as
well."

won't happen again

Bipin

On May 16, 7:54 pm, bipin kumar  wrote:
> forgive me if i am wrong. isn't this discussion thread attempting to
> reinventing the wheel? the mailing list practices have been in place
> in last 2 last as far as i know and those rule hold still true in
> todays environment as well. further standardizing mailing list
> practices is not the primary objective of this group. hence is there
> any significance in continuing this thread? better we put our energy
> in doing other constructive things in the area of open source
>
> Bipin
>
> On May 16, 7:03 pm, Srihari k  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs 
> > > to
> > > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
>
> > > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the 
> > > busy
> > > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some 
> > > emphasis
> > > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
>
> > > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > > etc
>
> > *bold* /italics/ _underline_  -- this much stuff would be enough for a
> > mailing list i suppose. This ain't a love letter to be colorful.
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the 
> > > communications
> > > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of 
> > > 21st
> > > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years] Everybody
> > > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force 
> > > it.
>
> > DONT YOU DARE call my phone stone age.Though it is a low-end nokia
> > phone.It _definitely_ compliant to the '''21st century protocols'''.
>
> > forgot to say BOLD TEXT is supposed to be shouting.
>
> > > Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
> > > 'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had 'bold's
> > > in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
> > > beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very productive
> > > improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.
>
> > --
> > Srihari K
>
> > --
> > "Freedom is the only law".
> > "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> > To control your subscription 
> > visithttp://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> > For details visit the google group 
> > page:http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription 
> visithttp://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
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>
> For details visit the google group 
> page:http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[bipin kumar]

forgive me if i am wrong. isn't this discussion thread attempting to
reinventing the wheel? the mailing list practices have been in place
in last 2 last as far as i know and those rule hold still true in
todays environment as well. further standardizing mailing list
practices is not the primary objective of this group. hence is there
any significance in continuing this thread? better we put our energy
in doing other constructive things in the area of open source

Bipin

On May 16, 7:03 pm, Srihari k  wrote:
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs to
> > be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
>
> > When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the busy
> > contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> > lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some emphasis
> > to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
>
> > Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> > make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> > etc
>
> *bold* /italics/ _underline_  -- this much stuff would be enough for a
> mailing list i suppose. This ain't a love letter to be colorful.
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the communications
> > which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> > softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of 21st
> > century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years] Everybody
> > has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force it.
>
> DONT YOU DARE call my phone stone age.Though it is a low-end nokia
> phone.It _definitely_ compliant to the '''21st century protocols'''.
>
> forgot to say BOLD TEXT is supposed to be shouting.
>
> > Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
> > 'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had 'bold's
> > in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
> > beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very productive
> > improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.
>
> --
> Srihari K
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription 
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-- 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Srihari k]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs to
> be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
>
> When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the busy
> contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some emphasis
> to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
>
> Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> etc

*bold* /italics/ _underline_  -- this much stuff would be enough for a
mailing list i suppose. This ain't a love letter to be colorful.

[snip]
>
> Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the communications
> which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of 21st
> century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years] Everybody
> has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force it.

DONT YOU DARE call my phone stone age.Though it is a low-end nokia
phone.It _definitely_ compliant to the '''21st century protocols'''.

forgot to say BOLD TEXT is supposed to be shouting.

> Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
> 'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had 'bold's
> in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
> beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very productive
> improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.



-- 
Srihari K

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> "Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs to
> be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):
>
> When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the busy
> contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
> lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some emphasis
> to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.
>
> Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
> make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
> etc
> Part of these methods add additional 'text tags' or non readable 'format
> data' to the paragraph. [a paragraph in terms of text renderers is a string
> of letters, which continues until we press 'enter' key.A new paragraph is
> born when 'enter' is pressed. Here the paragraph is different from its
> conventional literary sense.'Shift+Enter' is the right way to make a
> literary paragraph]

Not sure where you learned this, but in most software pressing Enter
starts a new paragraph, whereas Shift-Enter simply starts a new line.
For e.g., OOo 3.1.1 has that behaviour. If you turn on "Non-printing
characters" in the View menu, you can easily see the Pilcrow at the
end of paragraphs and a Line Feed character at the end of forced line
breaks.

>
> Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the communications
> which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
> softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of 21st
> century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years] Everybody
> has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force it.
>

You have been given some options to do this. You could for e.g., write
a blog post with all the formatting you want, and post a link here to
the list. Or you can exploit "21st century" or in fact 20th century
protocols, and include multipart email messages, with a plain text
version, an RTF version and an HTML version.

As far as you not using modern medical technology, well, you are
endangering yourself and in some ways, endangering the rest of society
as well. But you are free to damage your fellow man in any way you
want.


> 
>
> Consolidation regarding RTF-HTML / Plain text usage:
>
>
> Do not use any formating which adds additional characters to the original
> text, which gets displayed in the less-able software systems.
> As far as I know, BOLD and ITALIC adds no additional visible characters in
> such scenarios. These can be used in a positive way. As it consumes time and
> effort to differentiate parts of text, it would be recommended only at
> special circumsatnces.
> Like the following: the posts are very long, but cutting it short
> compromises readability of non-expert user .
>

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If it was to establish
your identity, then hey, you've done it. Now, we all know who
"nishandh" is and how much he has contributed to making this a sane
mailing list, especially his contributions in formalizing something
we've all known for years.

Thank You!

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

"Why differential emphasis of text?" :  (these are known facts, but needs to
be elaborated, owing to the solid NO-RTF/HTML cry in the posts):

When we make a post considering an extended range of readers,(from the busy
contributors to --especially-- the newbie user) , we may have to expand a
lot. A long post is not preferred in Mailing List, and giving some emphasis
to relevant part of it makes it easier for the busy men.

Ways to asssert emphasis to parts of text:
make Bold, Italics, connect with underscore, alter colour, give highlight
etc
Part of these methods add additional 'text tags' or non readable 'format
data' to the paragraph. [a paragraph in terms of text renderers is a string
of letters, which continues until we press 'enter' key.A new paragraph is
born when 'enter' is pressed. Here the paragraph is different from its
conventional literary sense.'Shift+Enter' is the right way to make a
literary paragraph]

Now if some people want to use Stone age software to read the communications
which exploits possibility of 21st century protocols and compliant
softwares, it absolutely OK for them to. [i havent had a single drop of 21st
century allopathic medicine in my blood stream for some 6 years] Everybody
has the right to adopt their ways and declare it, but no right to force it.

Crying out to stop RTF/HTML as such would be a bad idea. Some days ago,
'Kerala Farmer' conducted a survey in this Mailing List, which had 'bold's
in it. It attracted no irritation to bold_italics_underlines. Because its
beautifully done,unlike my ways of RTFing. We can see some very productive
improvements made to increase the survey's user friendliness there.



Consolidation regarding RTF-HTML / Plain text usage:


Do not use any formating which adds additional characters to the original
text, which gets displayed in the less-able software systems.
As far as I know, BOLD and ITALIC adds no additional visible characters in
such scenarios. These can be used in a positive way. As it consumes time and
effort to differentiate parts of text, it would be recommended only at
special circumsatnces.
Like the following: the posts are very long, but cutting it short
compromises readability of non-expert user .

-






On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 4:44 AM, nishandh M  wrote:

> Nettiquette guidelines: http://www.rfc1855.net/
>
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 2:08 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 8:04 AM, ashik salahudeen wrote:
>>
>>> Nishandh , the first link you posted, the one at khandalaya has been
>>> there in the group home page for sometime now :) if you do want to emphasize
>>> then try and use underscores like _this_ . Just make sure that things you
>>> post are in plaintext rather than HTML.
>>>
>> A part of http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html submitted at our Mailing
>> List home page:  its a great read :D  (warning: men like me also get poked
>> :P)
>>
>> "List Admins typically put their Admin hat on infrequently, but when they
>> do, please listen. If an Admin decides something, it's final. Fini. The End.
>> Tan-tan-taaraa. If you don't like it, start another list of your own, start
>> an underground (or public) movement to get the admin overthrown, or hire a
>> couple of goons to visit him/her at 4am and give him/her a few broken ones.
>> Just do not dispute the decision on the list: it'll probably end up getting
>> you banned for a nice long time."
>>
>> (unauthorized reproduction for the sole purpose of  publicity of source, I
>> think I would be bailed out for that reason).
>>
>> @ Admins, am afraid of Goons, can we settle with a Coke? ;) Oh Nops but
>> Coke is environmental and health hazard, so..mmm...err...Packaged Drinking
>> Water?
>> --
>>
>>
>> #//#
>>   "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
>> Leonardo da Vinci
>>
>> #//#
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> #//#
>   "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
> Leonardo da Vinci
>
> #//#
>
>


-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

Nettiquette guidelines: http://www.rfc1855.net/

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 2:08 AM, nishandh M  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 8:04 AM, ashik salahudeen wrote:
>
>> Nishandh , the first link you posted, the one at khandalaya has been there
>> in the group home page for sometime now :) if you do want to emphasize then
>> try and use underscores like _this_ . Just make sure that things you post
>> are in plaintext rather than HTML.
>>
> A part of http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html submitted at our Mailing
> List home page:  its a great read :D  (warning: men like me also get poked
> :P)
>
> "List Admins typically put their Admin hat on infrequently, but when they
> do, please listen. If an Admin decides something, it's final. Fini. The End.
> Tan-tan-taaraa. If you don't like it, start another list of your own, start
> an underground (or public) movement to get the admin overthrown, or hire a
> couple of goons to visit him/her at 4am and give him/her a few broken ones.
> Just do not dispute the decision on the list: it'll probably end up getting
> you banned for a nice long time."
>
> (unauthorized reproduction for the sole purpose of  publicity of source, I
> think I would be bailed out for that reason).
>
> @ Admins, am afraid of Goons, can we settle with a Coke? ;) Oh Nops but
> Coke is environmental and health hazard, so..mmm...err...Packaged Drinking
> Water?
> --
>
>
> #//#
>   "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
> Leonardo da Vinci
>
> #//#
>
>


-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 8:04 AM, ashik salahudeen  wrote:

> Nishandh , the first link you posted, the one at khandalaya has been there
> in the group home page for sometime now :) if you do want to emphasize then
> try and use underscores like _this_ . Just make sure that things you post
> are in plaintext rather than HTML.
>
A part of http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html submitted at our Mailing List
home page:  its a great read :D  (warning: men like me also get poked :P)

"List Admins typically put their Admin hat on infrequently, but when they
do, please listen. If an Admin decides something, it's final. Fini. The End.
Tan-tan-taaraa. If you don't like it, start another list of your own, start
an underground (or public) movement to get the admin overthrown, or hire a
couple of goons to visit him/her at 4am and give him/her a few broken ones.
Just do not dispute the decision on the list: it'll probably end up getting
you banned for a nice long time."

(unauthorized reproduction for the sole purpose of  publicity of source, I
think I would be bailed out for that reason).

@ Admins, am afraid of Goons, can we settle with a Coke? ;) Oh Nops but Coke
is environmental and health hazard, so..mmm...err...Packaged Drinking Water?

-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[ashik salahudeen]

Nishandh , the first link you posted, the one at khandalaya has been there
in the group home page for sometime now :) if you do want to emphasize then
try and use underscores like _this_ . Just make sure that things you post
are in plaintext rather than HTML.

That pdf in malayalam should be useful.

On May 15, 2010 1:07 AM, "Hiran Venugopalan"  wrote:

On 14 May 2010 12:35, jinesh kj  wrote: > @nishandh > >
hi, > > I dont know whet...
Not just CLI.

1. People with dark gmail themes. (pravi.a, his first mail should be
in the screenshot, i am sure, it looks _awesome_ in your theme)
2. People who uses clients, with dark themes.
3. And who uses mobile browsers. (I accidentally had to. painful in
mobile opera, it shows text in size 28px! )

I am not reading my text book before examination, to focus only on
important parts.

The solution is simple, use plain text.
Italics and bold also are irritating.
--
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.orgYou received this mess...

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Hiran Venugopalan]

On 14 May 2010 12:35, jinesh kj  wrote:
> @nishandh
>
> hi,
>
> I dont know whether you understand the problem or not. Most of the
> times its ok for me since i am using either firefox or evolution to
> read my mails. But occasionally i will end up having only CLI(i think
> many others around here too), but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be
> able to go through e mails, answer or reply queries, or search for
> solutions to fix problems.

Not just CLI.

1. People with dark gmail themes. (pravi.a, his first mail should be
in the screenshot, i am sure, it looks _awesome_ in your theme)
2. People who uses clients, with dark themes.
3. And who uses mobile browsers. (I accidentally had to. painful in
mobile opera, it shows text in size 28px! )

I am not reading my text book before examination, to focus only on
important parts.

The solution is simple, use plain text.
Italics and bold also are irritating.
-- 
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

4) use the Names of persons, as it is provided by the person.


On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:56 AM, nishandh M  wrote:

> Hi ..
> The following references have been put forward by various contributors to
> this mailing list, as a reference to Good practices in communities.
> [We give thrust to internet based community activity. Any guidelines for
> field activity and direct user interaction will not be disregarded]
>
> http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html {suggested by Bipin Kumar}
>
> http://mashable.com/2009/12/21/must-read-ebooks/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+(Mashable)
>  {Ullas
> DL}
> http://artofcommunityonline.org/ {Alan Alan}
>
> According to the discussion,
> 1) RTF should not be used in Mailing list
> 2) Images should not be embedded, either links should be provided or
> attached
> 3) Language should be formal.
>
> Please comment any additional directions / modifications / elaboration
>
> There was a link provided to guideline (a beautiful presentation possibly
> in PDF) somebody posted, associated with translation of manuals into
> Malayalam. It had a consolidation of good language practice. I couldnt find
> it..please post it here if somebody could fetch it...
>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, jinesh kj  wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:00 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
>> > I donno about 'mail server GUI client'. I hope you are saying about GUI
>> of
>> > web browsers? One specific doubt which i would be pleased  to get
>> cleared:
>> > if a CLI email client is used, the data corresponding to Rich part of
>> > messages(images/RTF) will not be transfered to and fro?only the text
>> part
>> > and basic formating information will be transferred than? or the GUI
>> details
>> > embedded in the message is the default way at present, and these will be
>> > discarded by the CLI email client?
>>
>> The problem is it will take the rich part(images wont come, it will be
>> shown as additional attachment) and will try to render on its own. I
>> dont know whether all mail clients are like this. But the one i am
>> using is like this. Which finally end up quite difficult to read.
>> Yeah, i was talking about browser front end.
>>
>> regards
>> Jinesh K J
>>
>> --
>> My Feelings,Expressions-
>> http://logbookofanobserver.blogspot.com
>>
>> My scribblings-
>> http://logbookofanobserver.wordpress.com
>>
>> SMC : My computer, My language http://smc.org.in
>> സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ്, എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിന് എന്റെ ഭാഷ
>>
>> --
>> "Freedom is the only law".
>> "Freedom Unplugged"
>> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
>> To control your subscription visit
>> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
>> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> For details visit the google group page:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> #//#
>   "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
> Leonardo da Vinci
>
> #//#
>
>


-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

Hi ..
The following references have been put forward by various contributors to
this mailing list, as a reference to Good practices in communities.
[We give thrust to internet based community activity. Any guidelines for
field activity and direct user interaction will not be disregarded]

http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html {suggested by Bipin Kumar}
http://mashable.com/2009/12/21/must-read-ebooks/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+(Mashable)
{Ullas
DL}
http://artofcommunityonline.org/ {Alan Alan}

According to the discussion,
1) RTF should not be used in Mailing list
2) Images should not be embedded, either links should be provided or
attached
3) Language should be formal.

Please comment any additional directions / modifications / elaboration

There was a link provided to guideline (a beautiful presentation possibly in
PDF) somebody posted, associated with translation of manuals into Malayalam.
It had a consolidation of good language practice. I couldnt find it..please
post it here if somebody could fetch it...


On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, jinesh kj  wrote:

> hi,
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:00 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > I donno about 'mail server GUI client'. I hope you are saying about GUI
> of
> > web browsers? One specific doubt which i would be pleased  to get
> cleared:
> > if a CLI email client is used, the data corresponding to Rich part of
> > messages(images/RTF) will not be transfered to and fro?only the text part
> > and basic formating information will be transferred than? or the GUI
> details
> > embedded in the message is the default way at present, and these will be
> > discarded by the CLI email client?
>
> The problem is it will take the rich part(images wont come, it will be
> shown as additional attachment) and will try to render on its own. I
> dont know whether all mail clients are like this. But the one i am
> using is like this. Which finally end up quite difficult to read.
> Yeah, i was talking about browser front end.
>
> regards
> Jinesh K J
>
> --
> My Feelings,Expressions-
> http://logbookofanobserver.blogspot.com
>
> My scribblings-
> http://logbookofanobserver.wordpress.com
>
> SMC : My computer, My language http://smc.org.in
> സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ്, എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിന് എന്റെ ഭാഷ
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
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-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
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"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[ashik salahudeen]

I havent had access to broadbamd all these days and wasn't checking
the ilug-tvm discussions. After reading through all the emails i have
come to the conclusion that this thread should stop here.

The only people who contributed constructively would be Praveen,
Rajeev J Sebastian and nishandh in that order. Thank you Praveen for
your patience and time - yours was the best way to approach the issue.
Nishandh please do come up with a draft and start a different thread.
Rajeev your views are valid but involve some learning curve - its not
the way of cry babies but of dedicated, committed users. Its sad that
not many on the list agreed and went so far as to call for bans. Blind
righteousness seemed to be the order of the day.

rest of the members , this is your admin speaking. usage of terms such
as WTF and RTFM are fine by the list. unless otherwise used in a
derogatory manner its fine. Words take meaning from the context and
not from the dictionary. Jemshid and others it would be nice if you
can read more about history of FOSS especially that of gnu , linux and
bsds. Seriously.

One more thing. Please try to use plain text while emailing to this
list. As explained a while ago in other threads the rules are not
strictly enforced because we dont want to turn away new users. But
after you have been told about the rule explicitly its not a nice
thing to keep violating it in the name of freedom. Obey them as you
would obey the traffic rules - they are in place for a purpose.


Any further replies to this thread will be met with moderation.

--
Aashik

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 8:22 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian
>  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Raj Kamal  wrote:
>> > .
>> >>
>> >> WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
>> >> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> @ Rajeev Sebastian
>> >
>> > This is a mailing list and dont ever use abusive language. (For those
>> > who
>> > dont know the meaning of WTF: It stands for What The Fu** )
>> > There are hundreds of decent and respectable people in this group.
>> > You are the only self proclaimed techie who has n't made an iota of
>> > contribution to this group. You haven't answered any of the doubts any
>> > newbies. You haven't participated in any of the discussion in a
>> > constuctive
>> > way. You always bully and abuses new comers. Whenever there is a
>> > contravercial thread you poke your nose into it with your arrogant and
>> > abusive language and turns it into a flame war.
>>
>> I suppose "RTFM" or "RTFS" would also be abusive to your so-called
>> "decent and respectable" people.
>>
>> Yes, I have not made a single contribution to this group, nor to the
>> FLOSS community. I just use Linux and related tools a lot. So what? Is
>> this a mailing list only for people who have contributed?
>
> @Rajiv,
> Nops. Not all non-contributors get kicked in this list. its me, and more
> perfectly you :P. I got it for continuing what is percieved as offensive.
>  You know why you got it. You changed the way you use language(a better way
> of arguing with logics) for some time in between, but the past is gonna hunt
> for some time ,Its a bad(or good?) part of the society. Atleast until we
> admit it, it continues.

For what it's worth, I do not regret writing anything in this thread.
I doubt you would've listened to anything without an expletive, as you
have well demonstrated with your calls for an "ilug-tvm distro". Looks
like you haven't listened to anything with an expletive either.

Fact remains that if you were really interested in contributing, you
would've read the recommendations and filed bugs at appropriate places
(E.g., Ubuntu bug tracker). I count about 50 emails in this thread,
including yours. Conservatively assuming it takes you 1 minute each to
read every mail and 1 minute to write your responses, you have wasted
50 minutes which might have led to a very good bug report.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Rajiv Nair  wrote:

> As a "silent" mod who's only "contribution" is to filter spam out of
> the list, this is my take on this entire thread. This is just my
> opinion and should not be attributed to any other moderator.
>
> As moderators we try our maximum to NOT put our "mod" caps on to kick
> and ban people. People in this list are not children and mods are
> definitely not babysitters. We are here to keep this list clean of
> unrelated posts(spam mostly..and we do get LOT of it), not to keep it
> clean of people's opinions.
>
> The objective of putting up various mailing list guidelines are not to
> curb people's freedom to use a colorful font, but to ensure that
> your mail is accessible to EVERYONE irrespective of whether they are
> checking their mail in a browser/phone/emacs/whatever. There might be
> people who access this list with the help of a screen reader because
> they might be visually impaired, in which case all pretty fonts are
> useless to say the least. As the number of people who can read your
> mail increases your chances of getting back a useful reply increases.
>
D r e a m : A text interpreter which differentially accentuates speach,
based on colour and other attributes. Doesnt the blind brothers deserve
better spaech?  And let it even speaks out images. Dont say this is not
easy. we already have smile shutters (TM) In cameras worth just 6000Rs.
Dear, imagine how good a blind brother wud feel when his email says "and
there is a picture of a beautiful lady in the window, smiling at you in blue
dress". It bring tears to eyes.

Comments on blinds perception of blue dress will not be answered until i
study the situation.
A smile shutter recognizes face in a video straem,locks focus and clicks wen
it smiles.

>
> This thread should have turned into a very constructive discussion
> regarding the usability of desktop linux, but instead its just mails
> asking mods to ban person A or B. Grow up!!
>
> Regards,
> Rajiv R Nair
>
> "Every one of us is precious in the cosmic perspective. If a human
> disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you
> will not find another. - Carl Sagan"
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
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>
>
>
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Raj Kamal  wrote:
> > .
> >>
> >> WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
> >> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> @ Rajeev Sebastian
> >
> > This is a mailing list and dont ever use abusive language. (For those who
> > dont know the meaning of WTF: It stands for What The Fu** )
> > There are hundreds of decent and respectable people in this group.
> > You are the only self proclaimed techie who has n't made an iota of
> > contribution to this group. You haven't answered any of the doubts any
> > newbies. You haven't participated in any of the discussion in a
> constuctive
> > way. You always bully and abuses new comers. Whenever there is a
> > contravercial thread you poke your nose into it with your arrogant and
> > abusive language and turns it into a flame war.
>
> I suppose "RTFM" or "RTFS" would also be abusive to your so-called
> "decent and respectable" people.
>
> Yes, I have not made a single contribution to this group, nor to the
> FLOSS community. I just use Linux and related tools a lot. So what? Is
> this a mailing list only for people who have contributed?

@Rajiv,
Nops. Not all non-contributors get kicked in this list. its me, and more
perfectly you :P. I got it for continuing what is percieved as offensive.
 You know why you got it. You changed the way you use language(a better way
of arguing with logics) for some time in between, but the past is gonna hunt
for some time ,Its a bad(or good?) part of the society. Atleast until we
admit it, it continues.



>
> >>
> >> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
> >
> > Who gave you the right to call a person 'idiot'. Remember again. This is
> a
> > public discussion forum.
> >  A few weeks ago when some people asked permission for archiving the
> posts,
> > you were only person (out of more than 1000+) who objected to that. Was
> not
> > it because you were afraid that your rants and rubbish will be read by
> more
> > people?
>
> No, it was just that
> a) I wanted to assert my copyright on *my own* posts,
> b) since I have not contributed anything useful, it makes no
> difference whatsoever
> c) I don't want people to look for ILUG-TVM posts on some random
> websites; i would rather they come to the ilug-tvm google group, join
> and read the archives and participate.
>
> > I wonder why the list admins and mods keep silent about such harmful
> people
> > in this group. Please act fast and ban such people.
>
> Yes, please ban such abrasive people; while you're at it please also
> ban people who cannot follow basic mailing list customs, etc.
>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/14 nishandh M :
> there are many ways. Too many a ways. That is the problem we discussed
> above. Too many 'distros' sprouting everywhere. dispersing efforts. we spoke
> about setting priorities in a mailing list [ilug-tvm has a big potential;so

To a certain level there is duplication of work, but how much work
does it take to create a distro? There is never going to a single
distro to rule them all. So if someone uses Ubuntu let them support
Ubuntu, if someone is using Debian let them support Debian, if someone
is using Fedora let them support it (up to distro n).

We can make special interest groups for each distros and make teams to
support each. I think trying to make any distro as an official distro
of ilug-tvm is going to be a waste of time. I don't think nothing much
would come out of it.

Instead let us focus on specific issues that would appear in any
distro that anyone chooses. This is one of the strong beliefs of smc
as well, we did not think we need a separate distro, if someone asks
for a fedora package, someone using fedora would help, likewise for
other distros.

> many developers inside;so much activity in the field; 4062 web views in 48
> hours)]. are you paid for deviating efforts in setting priorities in such a

Lets learn to disagree respectfully.

> mailing list? U would be very welcome at a Microsoft User Group for the
> efforts you made in this post.

Like Rajiv said, we all need to grow up, we are not babies or still in
school complaining ടീച്ചറേ ദേ ഇവനെന്നെ നുള്ളി, ഇവനെന്നെ പിച്ചീ ...
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/14 Rajiv Nair :
> As moderators we try our maximum to NOT put our "mod" caps on to kick
> and ban people. People in this list are not children and mods are
> definitely not babysitters. We are here to keep this list clean of
> unrelated posts(spam mostly..and we do get LOT of it), not to keep it
> clean of people's opinions.

Very well said!
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajiv Nair]

As a "silent" mod who's only "contribution" is to filter spam out of
the list, this is my take on this entire thread. This is just my
opinion and should not be attributed to any other moderator.

As moderators we try our maximum to NOT put our "mod" caps on to kick
and ban people. People in this list are not children and mods are
definitely not babysitters. We are here to keep this list clean of
unrelated posts(spam mostly..and we do get LOT of it), not to keep it
clean of people's opinions.

The objective of putting up various mailing list guidelines are not to
curb people's freedom to use a colorful font, but to ensure that
your mail is accessible to EVERYONE irrespective of whether they are
checking their mail in a browser/phone/emacs/whatever. There might be
people who access this list with the help of a screen reader because
they might be visually impaired, in which case all pretty fonts are
useless to say the least. As the number of people who can read your
mail increases your chances of getting back a useful reply increases.

This thread should have turned into a very constructive discussion
regarding the usability of desktop linux, but instead its just mails
asking mods to ban person A or B. Grow up!!

Regards,
Rajiv R Nair

"Every one of us is precious in the cosmic perspective. If a human
disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you
will not find another. - Carl Sagan"

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Raj Kamal  wrote:
> .
>>
>> WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
>> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>
>
>>
>> @ Rajeev Sebastian
>
> This is a mailing list and dont ever use abusive language. (For those who
> dont know the meaning of WTF: It stands for What The Fu** )
> There are hundreds of decent and respectable people in this group.
> You are the only self proclaimed techie who has n't made an iota of
> contribution to this group. You haven't answered any of the doubts any
> newbies. You haven't participated in any of the discussion in a constuctive
> way. You always bully and abuses new comers. Whenever there is a
> contravercial thread you poke your nose into it with your arrogant and
> abusive language and turns it into a flame war.

I suppose "RTFM" or "RTFS" would also be abusive to your so-called
"decent and respectable" people.

Yes, I have not made a single contribution to this group, nor to the
FLOSS community. I just use Linux and related tools a lot. So what? Is
this a mailing list only for people who have contributed?

>>
>> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
>
> Who gave you the right to call a person 'idiot'. Remember again. This is a
> public discussion forum.
>  A few weeks ago when some people asked permission for archiving the posts,
> you were only person (out of more than 1000+) who objected to that. Was not
> it because you were afraid that your rants and rubbish will be read by more
> people?

No, it was just that
a) I wanted to assert my copyright on *my own* posts,
b) since I have not contributed anything useful, it makes no
difference whatsoever
c) I don't want people to look for ILUG-TVM posts on some random
websites; i would rather they come to the ilug-tvm google group, join
and read the archives and participate.

> I wonder why the list admins and mods keep silent about such harmful people
> in this group. Please act fast and ban such people.

Yes, please ban such abrasive people; while you're at it please also
ban people who cannot follow basic mailing list customs, etc.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Joji Antony]

I thought that blog was particularly annoying. But there is positive stuff
to take from such a blog.

It clearly shows that Ubuntu is reaching to the masses and to the
non-technical people too.The user base of Ubuntu is growing. Does any of us
have any idea the number of e-mails that Bill Gates gets everyday saying
Windows is not usable? How many Windows haters blogs there are? This is
certainly positive if it came from a legitimate user, that he felt there was
audience available. I would have got worried if something like this did not
come up.

Now if it came from Microsoft FUD strategies, I dont remember they doing it
for any other OS. That means they are getting scared that their territory is
being attacked on all fronts from FOSS products. I have always believed
Microsoft's strategies were to say "No one else is better than me" rather
than "I am the best".

But we as a community needs to understand that some of the stuff said in
that blog is true. The fanatism surrounding Linux is unbearable. And
Rajeev's reply is just what I have been wondering for a long time now : Why
does being a geek means we have the right to degrade any one who does not
"Know"? There is world that is not networked by fiber optic cables and this
attitude makes us very bad people there.



On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 11:48 AM, BINNY THOMAS  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Has anyone seen this
>
> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/
>
> *Caution: Vulgar Language and content. The comments may shock some  Linux
> users.*
>
>
> Regards
> Binny
> --
>
> http://binny88.wordpress.com
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Raj Kamal]

.

>
> WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>


> @ Rajeev Sebastian
>
This is a mailing list and dont ever use abusive language. (For those who
dont know the meaning of WTF: It stands for What The Fu** )
There are hundreds of decent and respectable people in this group.
You are the only self proclaimed techie who has n't made an iota of
contribution to this group. You haven't answered any of the doubts any
newbies. You haven't participated in any of the discussion in a constuctive
way. You always bully and abuses new comers. Whenever there is a
contravercial thread you poke your nose into it with your arrogant and
abusive language and turns it into a flame war.

>
> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
>

Who gave you the right to call a person 'idiot'. Remember again. This is a
public discussion forum.
 A few weeks ago when some people asked permission for archiving the posts,
you were only person (out of more than 1000+) who objected to that. Was not
it because you were afraid that your rants and rubbish will be read by more
people?

I wonder why the list admins and mods keep silent about such harmful people
in this group. Please act fast and ban such people.

Raj Kamal

>
>
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/14 nishandh M :
> agreed. And when we consider the ignorant user, I think handling the error
> in a successive step would be better than alerting about a possible false
> positive and make it get done in a not-so-easy way.

Did you get to see the warning messages in Firefox when a https page
cannot be trusted? Firefox could easily load the page ignoring the
problem, but it waits for a manual intervention from the user. I am
not able to comment any further unless I see the exact mount command
and understand what it is trying to do.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[jinesh kj]

hi,

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:00 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> I donno about 'mail server GUI client'. I hope you are saying about GUI of
> web browsers? One specific doubt which i would be pleased  to get cleared:
> if a CLI email client is used, the data corresponding to Rich part of
> messages(images/RTF) will not be transfered to and fro?only the text part
> and basic formating information will be transferred than? or the GUI details
> embedded in the message is the default way at present, and these will be
> discarded by the CLI email client?

The problem is it will take the rich part(images wont come, it will be
shown as additional attachment) and will try to render on its own. I
dont know whether all mail clients are like this. But the one i am
using is like this. Which finally end up quite difficult to read.
Yeah, i was talking about browser front end.

regards
Jinesh K J

-- 
My Feelings,Expressions-
http://logbookofanobserver.blogspot.com

My scribblings-
http://logbookofanobserver.wordpress.com

SMC : My computer, My language http://smc.org.in
സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ്, എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിന് എന്റെ ഭാഷ

-- 
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

@Jinesh, I am understanding the evils of RTF more and more, hope we are
working out the policy of not using RTF.Evevnthough I look like
"thallandammaavaa njan nannavillaha", And some had to spend a little more
time to make it clear for me, as i was not aware of most of these possible
problems.thankful.

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:35 PM, jinesh kj  wrote:

> @nishandh
>
> hi,
>
> I dont know whether you understand the problem or not. Most of the
> times its ok for me since i am using either firefox or evolution to
> read my mails. But occasionally i will end up having only CLI(i think
> many others around here too), but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be
> able to go through e mails, answer or reply queries, or search for
> solutions to fix problems.
>
> I hope you can understand that.
> It is not always a choice for me to have a GUI. Our campus mail server
> gui client is slow many times(so is gmail) which forces me to use CLI.
>
I donno about 'mail server GUI client'. I hope you are saying about GUI of
web browsers? One specific doubt which i would be pleased  to get cleared:
if a CLI email client is used, the data corresponding to Rich part of
messages(images/RTF) will not be transfered to and fro?only the text part
and basic formating information will be transferred than? or the GUI details
embedded in the message is the default way at present, and these will be
discarded by the CLI email client?



Regards
> Jinesh K J
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
>
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[jinesh kj]

@nishandh

hi,

I dont know whether you understand the problem or not. Most of the
times its ok for me since i am using either firefox or evolution to
read my mails. But occasionally i will end up having only CLI(i think
many others around here too), but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be
able to go through e mails, answer or reply queries, or search for
solutions to fix problems.

I hope you can understand that.
It is not always a choice for me to have a GUI. Our campus mail server
gui client is slow many times(so is gmail) which forces me to use CLI.


Regards
Jinesh K J

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> > Am repeating some X-th time, unfortunately,
> > The distro gets blame for asking to manually, and wastefully execute an
> > exactly known, working solution to a defined problem.
>
> You agree it worked in a normal case. When you have exceptional cases,
> sometime you need to handle it exceptionally.
>
:D. I am sorry, but i think there is humour in it.

>
> It alerted you to something not normal, if it is a false positive, and
> you can prove it will always be false positive, and you think you have
> a strong case, we can talk to the developers to change this policy.
>
agreed. And when we consider the ignorant user, I think handling the error
in a successive step would be better than alerting about a possible false
positive and make it get done in a not-so-easy way.

>
> You chose to do it anyway, because you thought it is ok, everyone may
> not go ahead. I don't know if you have noticed it, but when you leave
> a secure web page a browser asks you if you want to proceed. You may
> always click proceed after assessing the risks involved and sometimes
> blindly. But it means you take responsibility of whatever happens and
> it was the responsibility of the browser to alert you of a potential
> security problem.
>
> To give a better response, can you provide the suggested mount command?

will try my best, i need some time please.

>


> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Praveen A  wrote:
> That is one reason I think Google Summer of Code is very important.
> Because every selected student is assigned a mentor (who plays the
> role of a catalyst). We need much more mentors and more such systems
> in place to get more contributions.

OR ... people like Nishandh could file proper bugs on bug trackers :P

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> > Nobody should let another man decide wat he should do. Why shud he follow
> > the ML best prctices?** its some other's decision!. We are dealing with
> > democracy. Make complicate. GAME. See, I do RTF when i am madly feeling
> to
> > express that way, i cant help sometimes.I feel I am compromising
> readability
>
> You are expecting people to reply to you in a mailing list. If you
> don't even care to show basic courtesy, why should anyone respond to
> you?
>
> > ** You say, because I enter the mailing list, i am supposed to follow ALL
> of
> > the draft policies? I am forced to live in it, because it is the only
> > nation. Am adopting NON COOPERATION . I think the lines and arrow
>
> You are welcome, but you will also get non-cooperation in return. I
> don't know how long I will go on responding to you, but when I get fed
> of your non-cooperation, I would start ignoring you. Everyone's
> tolerance level vary, so you may never get a response, when someone
> would have responded to you otherwise. A mailing list is not a court
> room to file your complaints, but a forum to find solutions together,
> and there needs to be a give an take.
>
yes you are right, and what i meant was not entirely against the list, only
against wat i strongly belive is wrong.I also said i am liable to
consequential responses.

>
> > marks used
> > to differentiate conversation are not enough.But i cant ask everybody to
> > spend time on differential emphasis on parts of text. looking for a gmail
> > LAB item which can toggle such a feature on and off. anybody aware of
> such a
> > thing?
>
oops...it surely looks like shouting. :(  I was not very aware of it then,
at that moment.
well am still looking for it, would be a great help if somebody could
share...

>
> Shouting doesn't help much when you are expecting someone to respond
> to you. If you are not comfortable with English, മലയാളത്തില്‍ കൂടുതല്‍
> ഭംഗിയായും ശക്തമായും വിഷയം അവതരിപ്പിയ്ക്കാമെങ്കില്‍ മലയാളത്തിലെഴുതൂ.
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/14 Rajeev J Sebastian :
> You need to read up on the "Contribute" section of your favorite
> distro's website, or use some of the many established ways in which
> USERS (as opposed to developers) can take part in development. MANY
> MANY FLOSS software projects include NON-DEVELOPERS in their Official
> Teams; guess how they got there.

Yes, there are many non developers. But it is not as easy as you make
it to be. There is a steep learning curve and added to that the way we
have been taught, it is difficult to do things on their own.

I would like to think of catalysts in a chemical reaction. In the
absence of a catalyst the activation energy is so high that the
molecules cannot pass the threshold (in spite of it being so high some
of them do pass anyways). A catalyst lowers the activation energy and
enables much more molecules to pass the threshold.

That is one reason I think Google Summer of Code is very important.
Because every selected student is assigned a mentor (who plays the
role of a catalyst). We need much more mentors and more such systems
in place to get more contributions.

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> Am repeating some X-th time, unfortunately,
> The distro gets blame for asking to manually, and wastefully execute an
> exactly known, working solution to a defined problem.

You agree it worked in a normal case. When you have exceptional cases,
sometime you need to handle it exceptionally.

It alerted you to something not normal, if it is a false positive, and
you can prove it will always be false positive, and you think you have
a strong case, we can talk to the developers to change this policy.

You chose to do it anyway, because you thought it is ok, everyone may
not go ahead. I don't know if you have noticed it, but when you leave
a secure web page a browser asks you if you want to proceed. You may
always click proceed after assessing the risks involved and sometimes
blindly. But it means you take responsibility of whatever happens and
it was the responsibility of the browser to alert you of a potential
security problem.

To give a better response, can you provide the suggested mount command?

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> Nobody should let another man decide wat he should do. Why shud he follow
> the ML best prctices?** its some other's decision!. We are dealing with
> democracy. Make complicate. GAME. See, I do RTF when i am madly feeling to
> express that way, i cant help sometimes.I feel I am compromising readability

You are expecting people to reply to you in a mailing list. If you
don't even care to show basic courtesy, why should anyone respond to
you?

> ** You say, because I enter the mailing list, i am supposed to follow ALL of
> the draft policies? I am forced to live in it, because it is the only
> nation. Am adopting NON COOPERATION . I think the lines and arrow

You are welcome, but you will also get non-cooperation in return. I
don't know how long I will go on responding to you, but when I get fed
of your non-cooperation, I would start ignoring you. Everyone's
tolerance level vary, so you may never get a response, when someone
would have responded to you otherwise. A mailing list is not a court
room to file your complaints, but a forum to find solutions together,
and there needs to be a give an take.

> marks used
> to differentiate conversation are not enough.But i cant ask everybody to
> spend time on differential emphasis on parts of text. looking for a gmail
> LAB item which can toggle such a feature on and off. anybody aware of such a
> thing?

Shouting doesn't help much when you are expecting someone to respond
to you. If you are not comfortable with English, മലയാളത്തില്‍ കൂടുതല്‍
ഭംഗിയായും ശക്തമായും വിഷയം അവതരിപ്പിയ്ക്കാമെങ്കില്‍ മലയാളത്തിലെഴുതൂ.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

@Jemshid,u r right, am really wasting some time. But i think somebody should
 spend time on such views.

Rajivs way is to use truthfull, factual statements embedded with deviating
replies, effecting his intention to let the mailinglist perish without a
direction and policy. His intervention as exhibited in the 'linux haters
blog' post makes me feel like he has some problem with ilugtvm setting its
priorities.
-
@Rajiv, (only) . you did you confirm yourself to the 'not-an angel' thing?
what exactly do you conform to? can you please explain your policy in making
all the above statements?

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:08 AM, Jemshid KK  wrote:
>> Hi Nishanth,
>> There are certain mails and comments in this mailing list which doesn't
>> deserve an answer.
>> I think it is high time we need to ignore unnecessary subjective emails.
>> There a few mails in the list, which doesn't deserve a reply at all.
>>
>> Lets ignore those mails and just think of meeting our objectives. We want
to
>> make linux user friendly.
>> And there are few developers and techies around who have offered support
and
>> could understand the need (Lets call them angels). We need to tap this
>> opportunity. Let's focus on angels and let's offer the best of our
>> contributions as users, towards meeting the objectives of making the Free
OS
>> better.
>
> Jemshid,
>
> Your email smacks of general ignorance regarding the subject at hand,
> which is what those "undeserving" responders were trying to get into
> your thick skull.
amazing discovery.how did you make out that?and quite an easy piece of
language to understand.see, most of us has a vision and a log term plan in
implementing linux. and most of us know each other personally. we know about
your efforts too, thats why you dint get an F** word back wen you made it.we
know about your contributions in IT sector. but your activity seems errr ...
."
and KK, as he is known, Jemshid, needs no intro. You may inquire about
evolution of FOSS at Calicut, and evolution of alternative platforms of
learning advanced technology at Calicut.try asking somebody about Ascent
engineering community. Ascent is not only Jemshid, many men already out of
it.you may look into share-learn-evo...@googlegroups.com. and Things are yet
to surface.

>
> You say that you ought to work with the "angels" to improve your
> distro. Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call:

who negated the following?
> DUDE, THERE IS ALREADY A WAY FOR YOU TO CONTRIBUTE TO MAKE A
> "USER-FRIENDLY" DISTRO, ALONG WITH DEVELOPERS WHO WANT TO HELP YOU.

U said ther is already *a* way.that is a  Partial truth (RANT).actual
problem: there are *many* ways. *Too many *a ways. That is the problem we
discussed above. Too many 'distros' sprouting everywhere. dispersing
efforts. we spoke about setting priorities in a mailing list [ilug-tvm has a
big potential;so many developers inside;so much activity in the field; 4062
web views in 48 hours)]. are you paid for deviating efforts in setting
priorities in such a mailing list? U would be very welcome at a Microsoft
User Group for the efforts you made in this post.


who negated the following?
> You need to read up on the "Contribute" section of your favorite
> distro's website, or use some of the many established ways in which
> USERS (as opposed to developers) can take part in development. MANY
> MANY FLOSS software projects include NON-DEVELOPERS in their Official
> Teams; guess how they got there.
>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:08 AM, Jemshid KK  wrote:
> Hi Nishanth,
> There are certain mails and comments in this mailing list which doesn't
> deserve an answer.
> I think it is high time we need to ignore unnecessary subjective emails.
> There a few mails in the list, which doesn't deserve a reply at all.
>
> Lets ignore those mails and just think of meeting our objectives. We want to
> make linux user friendly.
> And there are few developers and techies around who have offered support and
> could understand the need (Lets call them angels). We need to tap this
> opportunity. Let's focus on angels and let's offer the best of our
> contributions as users, towards meeting the objectives of making the Free OS
> better.

Jemshid,

Your email smacks of general ignorance regarding the subject at hand,
which is what those "undeserving" responders were trying to get into
your thick skull.

You say that you ought to work with the "angels" to improve your
distro. Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call:
DUDE, THERE IS ALREADY A WAY FOR YOU TO CONTRIBUTE TO MAKE A
"USER-FRIENDLY" DISTRO, ALONG WITH DEVELOPERS WHO WANT TO HELP YOU.

You need to read up on the "Contribute" section of your favorite
distro's website, or use some of the many established ways in which
USERS (as opposed to developers) can take part in development. MANY
MANY FLOSS software projects include NON-DEVELOPERS in their Official
Teams; guess how they got there.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Jemshid KK]

Hi Nishanth,
There are certain mails and comments in this mailing list which doesn't
deserve an answer.
I think it is high time we need to ignore unnecessary subjective emails.
There a few mails in the list, which doesn't deserve a reply at all.

Lets ignore those mails and just think of meeting our objectives. We want to
make linux user friendly.
And there are few developers and techies around who have offered support and
could understand the need (Lets call them angels). We need to tap this
opportunity. Let's focus on angels and let's offer the best of our
contributions as users, towards meeting the objectives of making the Free OS
better.

Jemshid KK


On 13 May 2010 13:02:46 UTC+5:30, nishandh M  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:08 AM, Subin Sebastian  > wrote:
>
>> @Nishandh
>>
>> i still have the feeling that linux is not going to be user friendly for
>>> another forth coming decade.
>>>
>>
>> "Linux is not user-friendly?. It _is_ user-friendly!
>> It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly..."
>>
>
> @Sebin, thanks for supporting the view.
>
> Thats a very welcoming statement for a USER!. (the above statement defines
> the 'user' as techie, and everybody non techie as idiots / ignorant. That is
> an attitude. A destructive attitude)
> *Being ignorant friendly and idiot friendly is the best selling point*.
>  If the interface and stability is as easy and solid as an ATM system,
> everybody uses it,then every Hardware/Software manufacturer start providing
> drivers/compatible code.
>
>
> I wont ask my grandmother to learn code,may be not even to stare onto
> monitor for more than 10min. If the interface can be extended to the way
> familiar to her,it will work. That would be an achievement. And that wont
> make her Idiot. Think of the whole population.Hope nobody answer with an
> exception again:an ATM security breach. I refer only of the priorities they
> gave while designing the ATM system.
>
>
> Everything which has been made complex**  are not idot-friendly: whether it
> be Kathakali, abstract art.. .. ..and everything idiot friendly ---like
> mainstream films--- has won in reach.
> **[for valid reasons or just personal perceptions of how things should be]
>
>
>
>
> Just a quote in the last decade on the web from an unknown source... ;-
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>> 
>> Freedom Is The Only Law...
>> 
>> Subin Sebastian
>> College of Engineering
>> Munnar - 685612
>> +91-944-6475826
>>
>> --
>> "Freedom is the only law".
>> "Freedom Unplugged"
>> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
>> To control your subscription visit
>> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
>> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> For details visit the google group page:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> #//#
>   "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
> Leonardo da Vinci
>
> #//#
>
>  --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> > @ praveen, that rendering of text and background is not the exact one i
> made
> > or meant . I made a pale yellow distinguition for two parts of
> conversation
> > in a white background. Somebody called me and said the picture tube
> monitors
> > are already yellowish, so i tried light blue differentiation between 1st
> and
>
> That is exactly the problem with rich text formatting. It won't be the
> same as you think it is going to be. Why would I let you decide what
> theme I chose?
>
Yeah, nobody can force others.
I think opting for 'plain text' in gmail solves the problem.

Enjoying / tolerating common practices would make things easy. communication
is most effective, when the person at both end follows the same protocol.

There are schools with strict dress codes, and there are those without. i
think we go in uniforms, even though we are adults, eventhough we are f*ree
as in freedom.  am fed up of uniforms (to some extent).*
*
*
Nobody should let another man decide wat he should do. Why shud he follow
the ML best prctices?** its some other's decision!. We are dealing with
democracy. Make complicate. GAME. See, I do RTF when i am madly feeling to
express that way, i cant help sometimes.I feel I am compromising readability
for minority practices. I am liable to punishment from head masters of the
school though. Let history decide headmasters where positive or not.

** You say, because I enter the mailing list, i am supposed to follow ALL of
the draft policies? I am forced to live in it, because it is the only
nation. Am adopting NON COOPERATION . I think the lines and arrow marks used
to differentiate conversation are not enough.But i cant ask everybody to
spend time on differential emphasis on parts of text. looking for a gmail
LAB item which can toggle such a feature on and off. anybody aware of such a
thing?



> > 2nd person's opinions.
> > Well I am quite curious how colourfull web pages would get rendered with
> > that theme.
>
> It is email application, I expect text not colorful web pages. You
> browse web, but you read email. If still want to make it colorful with
> images and all, blog about it and post a link.
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
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>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> > @ Praveen, being specific about the problem, it occured when i was
> running
> > on Ubuntu. [at that time I had an 'Almann' virus in my XP, which disabled
> > safe removal of removable media.
>
> So now Ubuntu gets the blame for a virus in Windows as well :)
>
Am repeating some X-th time, unfortunately,
The distro gets blame for asking to *manually, and wastefully* execute an
exactly known, working solution to a defined problem.

>
> > 
> > all th statements you made, I agree.
> > I will try drafting, which will be posted. I think, a rough one in a
> week.
> > ther was a thread initiated, yesterday, reagrding the most fine tuneable
> > distro.
>
> Cool!
>
> > Inspired by Srihari's quote. A distro wich is available as both a
> > developer's tool, and also as desktop users tool.[we have debian and
> ubuntu
> > for the prupose, sharing much of the internals as far as i have read. But
> > the discusion occurs in different forums. need to find more efective
> > bridges.] I tried i could start the discusion there,i think i failed to
> > convey the significance. or there is no significance for that at all,
> some
> > solution is already there, which I am not aware of.
>
> There will be multiple distros, because there are different things
> that people give priorities. The idea is find a distro that fits you.
> I use debian. We can't push our choice of distro on others. We can
> make sure whatever improvements we make is shared with others. It
> happens mostly as everybody pushes changes in upstream.
>
> > 
> > The opinions i raised regarding user friendliness are not my personal,
> > atleast in some cases, either it was from 'my own experiance in the past
> wen
> > i had only one system with no internet connection', or from the
> expressions
> > i gathered in the few hours at an ILUG tvm stall at kannur engg college,
>
> I hope you will come up with a list of those issues which we can work on.
>
> > from the public. I had real internal problem when i adviced Linux OS to
> > people like fruit stall vendors, language teachers and drivers and all.
> As
> > far as i does, i ask them to be familiar with FOSS apps available in Win
> > platform - OOfice, Gimp, Firefox etc, and not the OS as such, and never
> > advice anything more than a dual boot.
>
> That is the first step.
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:08 AM, Subin Sebastian
wrote:

> @Nishandh
>
> i still have the feeling that linux is not going to be user friendly for
>> another forth coming decade.
>>
>
> "Linux is not user-friendly?. It _is_ user-friendly!
> It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly..."
>

@Sebin, thanks for supporting the view.

Thats a very welcoming statement for a USER!. (the above statement defines
the 'user' as techie, and everybody non techie as idiots / ignorant. That is
an attitude. A destructive attitude)
*Being ignorant friendly and idiot friendly is the best selling point*.  If
the interface and stability is as easy and solid as an ATM system, everybody
uses it,then every Hardware/Software manufacturer start providing
drivers/compatible code.


I wont ask my grandmother to learn code,may be not even to stare onto
monitor for more than 10min. If the interface can be extended to the way
familiar to her,it will work. That would be an achievement. And that wont
make her Idiot. Think of the whole population.Hope nobody answer with an
exception again:an ATM security breach. I refer only of the priorities they
gave while designing the ATM system.


Everything which has been made complex**  are not idot-friendly: whether it
be Kathakali, abstract art.. .. ..and everything idiot friendly ---like
mainstream films--- has won in reach.
**[for valid reasons or just personal perceptions of how things should be]




Just a quote in the last decade on the web from an unknown source... ;-
>

>

>
> 
> Freedom Is The Only Law...
> 
> Subin Sebastian
> College of Engineering
> Munnar - 685612
> +91-944-6475826
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription visit
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> @ Praveen, being specific about the problem, it occured when i was running
> on Ubuntu. [at that time I had an 'Almann' virus in my XP, which disabled
> safe removal of removable media.

So now Ubuntu gets the blame for a virus in Windows as well :)

> 
> all th statements you made, I agree.
> I will try drafting, which will be posted. I think, a rough one in a week.
> ther was a thread initiated, yesterday, reagrding the most fine tuneable
> distro.

Cool!

> Inspired by Srihari's quote. A distro wich is available as both a
> developer's tool, and also as desktop users tool.[we have debian and ubuntu
> for the prupose, sharing much of the internals as far as i have read. But
> the discusion occurs in different forums. need to find more efective
> bridges.] I tried i could start the discusion there,i think i failed to
> convey the significance. or there is no significance for that at all, some
> solution is already there, which I am not aware of.

There will be multiple distros, because there are different things
that people give priorities. The idea is find a distro that fits you.
I use debian. We can't push our choice of distro on others. We can
make sure whatever improvements we make is shared with others. It
happens mostly as everybody pushes changes in upstream.

> 
> The opinions i raised regarding user friendliness are not my personal,
> atleast in some cases, either it was from 'my own experiance in the past wen
> i had only one system with no internet connection', or from the expressions
> i gathered in the few hours at an ILUG tvm stall at kannur engg college,

I hope you will come up with a list of those issues which we can work on.

> from the public. I had real internal problem when i adviced Linux OS to
> people like fruit stall vendors, language teachers and drivers and all. As
> far as i does, i ask them to be familiar with FOSS apps available in Win
> platform - OOfice, Gimp, Firefox etc, and not the OS as such, and never
> advice anything more than a dual boot.

That is the first step.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/13 nishandh M :
> @ praveen, that rendering of text and background is not the exact one i made
> or meant . I made a pale yellow distinguition for two parts of conversation
> in a white background. Somebody called me and said the picture tube monitors
> are already yellowish, so i tried light blue differentiation between 1st and

That is exactly the problem with rich text formatting. It won't be the
same as you think it is going to be. Why would I let you decide what
theme I chose?

> 2nd person's opinions.
> Well I am quite curious how colourfull web pages would get rendered with
> that theme.

It is email application, I expect text not colorful web pages. You
browse web, but you read email. If still want to make it colorful with
images and all, blog about it and post a link.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[bipin kumar]

hi
  it would useful if people read the mailing list practices posted on
the group' s homepage.

 
http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html

it would make everyone's life better. further it is my understanding
that once a person sign up for a group then its his/her onus to
respect the the rules/guidlines of the group(which obviously includes
not posting HTML formatted message, as far as my understanding of
those guidelines goes). however if person has any problems with those
guidelines then he/she shouldn't sign up in the first place.

thanks

bipin

On May 13, 1:32 am, nishandh M  wrote:
> @ Bipinkumar, Praveen, yeah! who the hell did that :P hehehe. he wont do
> that again,
> provided he get some reponses from those using other colour themes. I have a
> perception that majority users use dark text on light background.(wrong?)
>
> @ praveen, that rendering of text and background is not the exact one i made
> or meant . I made a pale yellow distinguition for two parts of conversation
> in a white background. Somebody called me and said the picture tube monitors
> are already yellowish, so i tried light blue differentiation between 1st and
> 2nd person's opinions.
>
> Well I am quite curious how colourfull web pages would get rendered with
> that theme.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:51 AM, bipin kumar  wrote:
> > wow that formatting was one  hell of a overkill 
>
> > On May 12, 11:04 pm, Praveen A  wrote:
> > > 2010/5/12 nishandh M :
>
> > > > This is just a repetition of the above, with some high lighting. pardon
> > for
> > > > using RTF, but I would like to get opinion on whether this seems
> > offensive.
>
> > > I thought we are already through this. Hell YES, it is offensive. Try
> > > reading your mail in this screenshot.
>
> > > --
> > > പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
> > >  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
> > >  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> > > (as seen on /.)
>
> > > --
> > > "Freedom is the only law".
> > > "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> > > To control your subscription visithttp://
> > groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> > > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> > > For details visit the google group page:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>
> > >  rtf.png
> > > 216KViewDownload
>
> > --
> > "Freedom is the only law".
> > "Freedom Unplugged"
> >http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> > To control your subscription visit
> >http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> > For details visit the google group page:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>
> --
>
> #// #
>       "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
>                         Leonardo da Vinci
> #// #
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription 
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> For details visit the google group 
> page:http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Subin Sebastian]

@Nishandh

i still have the feeling that linux is not going to be user friendly for
> another forth coming decade.
>

"Linux is not user-friendly?. It _is_ user-friendly!
It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly..."
Just a quote in the last decade on the web from an unknown source... ;-)



Freedom Is The Only Law...

Subin Sebastian
College of Engineering
Munnar - 685612
+91-944-6475826

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Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

@ Bipinkumar, Praveen, yeah! who the hell did that :P hehehe. he wont do
that again,
provided he get some reponses from those using other colour themes. I have a
perception that majority users use dark text on light background.(wrong?)

@ praveen, that rendering of text and background is not the exact one i made
or meant . I made a pale yellow distinguition for two parts of conversation
in a white background. Somebody called me and said the picture tube monitors
are already yellowish, so i tried light blue differentiation between 1st and
2nd person's opinions.

Well I am quite curious how colourfull web pages would get rendered with
that theme.

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:51 AM, bipin kumar  wrote:

> wow that formatting was one  hell of a overkill 
>
> On May 12, 11:04 pm, Praveen A  wrote:
> > 2010/5/12 nishandh M :
> >
> > > This is just a repetition of the above, with some high lighting. pardon
> for
> > > using RTF, but I would like to get opinion on whether this seems
> offensive.
> >
> > I thought we are already through this. Hell YES, it is offensive. Try
> > reading your mail in this screenshot.
> >
> > --
> > പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
> >  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
> >  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> > (as seen on /.)
> >
> > --
> > "Freedom is the only law".
> > "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
> >
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> > To control your subscription visithttp://
> groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> >
> > For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
> >
> >  rtf.png
> > 216KViewDownload
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

@ Praveen, being specific about the problem, it occured when i was running
on Ubuntu. [at that time I had an 'Almann' virus in my XP, which disabled
safe removal of removable media. I had to pull HDD off, when i see there is
no active read / write. (every x seconds , some read/write used to be there,
checking whether a system folder is ther on the removable media, and if not
, rite that ystem folder with malicious code inside. The same way most of us
 know, how autorun mal scripts work in win platform)]. there was no visible
corruption of ntfs partition. When these media, which where not safely
removed, are connected to my ubuntu system,It gave a message. A dialoge box,
which contained a command, a long one, which should be pasted/typed to a
terminal.

Then I formated the XP to get rid of the virus. And had to reinstall Linux,
as i dint have access to skilled men in replacing the grub disabled by
windows insatalation. This time I did a LinuxMint, it had no issues with
removable media.I donno know whether it was an advantage of Mint or because
the virus was not there, which prevented "safe removal". Now this "lock"
happned only in the ntfs partition, which was not "safely removed" from
windows. Whenever i was able to kill the virus threads running in XP, I was
able to mount the ntfs.(killing these threads were a strenous game,with
three virus processes running at same time, each getting activted in some
six second interval.once the processes are killed, XP would work normal
untill next reboot.)

Now what i can do to reconstruct the situation is to install the same distro
again, and push an external HDD with ntfs partition and look for the mesage.
I dont remember what the message was.



all th statements you made, I agree.
I will try drafting, which will be posted. I think, a rough one in a week.
ther was a thread initiated, yesterday, reagrding the *most fine tuneable
distro*. Inspired by Srihari's quote. A distro wich is available as both a
developer's tool, and also as desktop users tool.[we have debian and ubuntu
for the prupose, sharing much of the internals as far as i have read. But
the discusion occurs in different forums. need to find more efective
bridges.] I tried i could start the discusion there,i think i failed to
convey the significance. or there is no significance for that at all, some
solution is already there, which I am not aware of.


The opinions i raised regarding user friendliness are not my personal,
atleast in some cases, either it was from 'my own experiance in the past wen
i had only one system with no internet connection', or from the expressions
i gathered in the few hours at an ILUG tvm stall at kannur engg college,
from the public. I had real internal problem when i adviced Linux OS to
people like fruit stall vendors, language teachers and drivers and all. As
far as i does, i ask them to be familiar with FOSS apps available in Win
platform - OOfice, Gimp, Firefox etc, and not the OS as such, and never
advice anything more than a dual boot.



On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/12 Harish CM :
> > Look at it this way - as a sysadmin I would not want removable media
> (floppy
> > cd/dvd pen drives etc to enter (for fear of contamination of my network)
> or
> > taken away (information security) so much so such devices are disabled -
> and
> > that is precisely where the problem lies. Most of us are worried about
> one's
> > own machine and one is free to do whatever as long as it is standalone.
> Come
> > networking, the scenario changes drastically. DOS/Windows came into being
> in
> > the standalone mode and is good and functional in that environ.
>
> Harish,
>
> As a sysadmin, you are supposed to know all these. But a normal user
> need know about ntfs systems or fstab to get their friends external
> drive to work.
>
> > Also, knowing more is, as far as I am concerned, better than knowing
> nothing
> > - it does it all for you- attitude is good enough as long as it works;
> when
> > it fails one does not know what is to be done - and that is bad
>
> Yes, that is the problem here. We need a mechanism to fix things when
> things break. It could be training or external support.
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
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>



-- 

#///

Re: mailing list best practices, again (sigh!) (Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[bipin kumar]

wow that formatting was one  hell of a overkill 

On May 12, 11:04 pm, Praveen A  wrote:
> 2010/5/12 nishandh M :
>
> > This is just a repetition of the above, with some high lighting. pardon for
> > using RTF, but I would like to get opinion on whether this seems offensive.
>
> I thought we are already through this. Hell YES, it is offensive. Try
> reading your mail in this screenshot.
>
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
> To control your subscription 
> visithttp://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
> To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com
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>
> For details visit the google group 
> page:http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>
>  rtf.png
> 216KViewDownload

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/12 Harish CM :
> Look at it this way - as a sysadmin I would not want removable media (floppy
> cd/dvd pen drives etc to enter (for fear of contamination of my network) or
> taken away (information security) so much so such devices are disabled - and
> that is precisely where the problem lies. Most of us are worried about one's
> own machine and one is free to do whatever as long as it is standalone. Come
> networking, the scenario changes drastically. DOS/Windows came into being in
> the standalone mode and is good and functional in that environ.

Harish,

As a sysadmin, you are supposed to know all these. But a normal user
need know about ntfs systems or fstab to get their friends external
drive to work.

> Also, knowing more is, as far as I am concerned, better than knowing nothing
> - it does it all for you- attitude is good enough as long as it works; when
> it fails one does not know what is to be done - and that is bad

Yes, that is the problem here. We need a mechanism to fix things when
things break. It could be training or external support.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/12 nishandh M :
>> 1) google for an answer
>
>  Practical?
> User is supposed to own two systems,  and connect the other to repair the
> faulty system to discuss online. If both are down, spend 20Rs/hour at
> internet cafe. (consider the rate of breakdown at USER level, frequency of
> incidence of errors in the mailing list itself gives an idea). we need
> better support system, and afterall. a better OS.(productive plans for
> betterment of OS)

Lets just think about this specific case, did you try to find an
answer to this particular problem with ntfs formatted external disk
using google? What di you find?

Considering you are very active in this list, I doubt you have any
difficulty with internet access.

Nishandh,

To solve any problem, we need to understand it. Most of the time, most
of us (including me) find it easier to blame someone else. But we need
people to do hard part as well. To go back to your original question.
Can you reproduce this error in any other system?

>> 2) write to distro developers; learn to ask smart questions before you do
>> that
>
> User resigns from job, and invest  time, energy and money in laerning code,
> to ask smart questions.

I see you already spent lot of time in this mailing list. Did you try
to contact Ubuntu developers? It does not take as much effort as you
make it to be.

>> 3) send your stupid rants to distro mailing lists
>
> I will try to make it more full in meaning and defenition. when i clearly
> explained that the specific error is not the issue, in the first post I
> made, priority should have to make opinions about what i presented as an
> issue.and not to rectify the problems, even without asking for necessary
> details.

I also explained that without specific cases, it is difficult to solve an issue.

>> 4) RTFM
>> 5) RTFS
>> 6) fix the source to do what you want
>
> Do you mean user should learn manual, source code and determine things to
> sort? please refer to the earlier posts, in which the 'user' is contextualy
> described. You mean software testers i think. Try imagining a response to
> saying that to a  7th-standard students crowd, who are  users of Linux. Get
> a car with a lot of Kevlar and Lexan.

What do you suggest a user do? It is easier to expect others to solve
issues, but if you want to see your problems to get fixed, you will
need to make an effort.

7th standard student has a support path via their teachers. Teachers
can call a toll free number to get support.

>  I intentionally poked the behaviour of intentionally making things complex
> for the user in FOSS world. If a solution is implemented in one distro, and

Give specific issues and we will try to solve it, generic statements
like these are not going to help get anything improved.

> not readily adopted into another, then its something else which is working
> inside.

Every distro should submit their changes upstream. If you care about
this, give this a high priority when choosing a distro.

> People has to be made aware, that these distros are not directed
> towards betterment of society, but intentionaly slowing down of evolution of
> linux. Such distros and applications deserves no contributor attention. Let
> some "ambassadors of propreitoryship" handle it.If any distro is found to be
> so, ilug-tvm should stop promoting it.

Can I suggest you to explore how Ubuntu handles translations?

>> Don't you think developers of various distros ALREADY KNOW THIS FACT?
>> Everyone and his mother is trying to develop a "easy to use distro".
>
> NO, as it is percieved. There are respected efforts, but not entirely.either
> directed to wasteful processes as in making new distros, or the intentional
> maintanace of complexity earlier said.

Again, give specifics, it is hard to solve issues based on such statements.

> The same applies to ilug TVM, we may get a lot of more participation, if we
> have a better policy and better declared priorities. A better defined vision
> and plan for short term and long term.

Why don't you start a draft and see how people respond?
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/11 Yadu Nand :
> Hi Praveen,
>
> Just to clarify, please check this paste-->http://pastebin.com/Wuymp9Qn
> Thats the output from " sudo fdisk -l "

What you wanted to clarify with this paste? You can easily find the device name?

>> That is exactly what we are discussing, why is it not there by default?
> Because, Linux is not about someone else making choices for you. It's
> about giving the user control.

How is that relevant here? Someone has already made that choice for
you. The question is how easy it is for you change that? Being Free
Software a user can always change the behavior, our discussion is
about whether those choices are best for newbies?

Don't you think it is easier for an experienced user to turn off auto
mount than a new user to edit fstab?

> When I plug in my external drive with one NTFS drive and one ext3
> drive, they are automatically mounted.

I'm still wondering why it is a problem for Nishandh when no other
person has this problem.

> There are other ways to do. Editing fstab is not the only way

We are talking about an easy way.

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

I'm done with this thread. Obviosly Nishandh is unwilling to learn,
and makes tangential arguments. So be it.

If this is what FOSS has going for it, then God help all of us!

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 6:45 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:33 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian
>  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Nishandh,
>>
>> It is not my fault that you cannot use Linux. Use what is given to
>> you, improve it, do whatever. Just stop ranting. Do something
>> constructive. Linux is not non-techies yet, despite what Ubuntu
>> marketing has fooled you into believing. Deal with it. Move on.
>>
>> I don't come to you *ranting* about Derrida.
>
> No you dont need to,but pls dont use Deconstruction techniques, saying u
> recommend to "ban me", and then explaining it as "that was not what i meant"
> it puts us to problem. for me, "no such method ".
>>
>> I might take a course in
>> that subject (paying teachers to teach me), or I might buy several
>> books (pay authors to teach me).
>
> We prefer buying from the one with best Corporate social responsibility
> policy. And try e-books know? That they dont be at loss of heavy printing
> charges, environmental pollution, and avoidance of loss if the printed is
> not sold.
>>
>> I would certainly not ask anything
>> before trying to find out on my own (such as via Google, or
>> Wikipedia). I will use the limited resources of the people who make
>> all this content available, in the most efficient manner possible.
>
> Which you belive is the most efficient manner possible, but I think not.
> The paper promisory note   -or currency-   has draw backs. Has no immediate
> source infromation. There are easy and destructive ways to make.
> http://www.countercurrents.org/curl030510.htm is an alternative, simply came
> out in TimeBanking discussion group (not to be adopted here, it has lots of
> problems, its just some history which worked out under conditions. But think
> of getting to live, when a foreign monopoly from adeveloped nation is
> imposing its international rates, without considering national economics of
> developing/undeveloped nations. What if a company achieves monopoly with the
> aid of patents it filed, and raising the product cost to extremes after it
> has become a norm?)
>>
>> Linux was not created by people who send rant emails
>
> Who said before?
>>
>> - it was created
>> by a bunch of people who took what was available, used it despite all
>> its shortcomings, and sometimes tried to make it better.
>>
>> You have stated that you are not willing to help yourself,
>
> Yeah, not willing to learning code. its a disability too.I can make six
> posters for Linux by the time i visualise an algorithm with operator
> overriding, overloading and things like pointers in C. My brothers do
> algorithm for me .
>>
>> nor are you
>> willing to get help from manuals/blogs/source code, nor are you
>> willing to pay someone else to do it for you.
>
> I do pay. I have paid.(i have a genuine Windows vista buisiness edition, and
> a win 7 ordered and paid,to be obtained in a week) and I pay for Linux too,
> just that it is not in cash. I like the other way more. Looking for
> affordable arrangements with FOSS video masters (Ready for cash transact, if
> an MOU is achieved).
>>
>> Instead, you want a
>> forum to post angry, ungrammatical (i.e., difficult to read) emails
>> about linux not working for non-techies. You hope for free support but
>> then you diss all the people who actually made this stuff for you to
>> use.
>
> I dint DISS ALL THE PEOPLE. Where did I? ur attempt to turn programmers
> against me?they read everything, not just ur posts. waste time on it.
> people get dissed when there is logic in what is said againist them and when
> they feel they are responsible for it.
>
>  We never put unknown strange men in bad clothes we meet on streets at gun
> point, when they continuously say  F*** words, and utter real illogically.We
> try to avoid them. Untill we feel ther is some logic in wat he says, which
> others could understand in a wrong way. Untill they are real problem
> according to our beliefs.
>
>> You say the developers who make this stuff are idiots and aren't
>> obviosly thinking about the user.
>
> I feel userfriendliness is not addressed the way it should be. U already
> supported this view, saying linux is not upto non-techies. HOW DO I MEAN
> THAT ALL PROGRAMMERS ARE IDIOTS?
>>
>> Are you sure you're worth responding
>> to?
>
> dont respond to me. i appreciate responses to the opinions i raise. THEY ARE
> SHARED!
>>
>> Your language has definitely improved;
>
> danks!
>>
>> I hope your explorations will
>> go deeper than just superficial comments about the state of Linux.
>
> I would listen to as far as i can, but deal with userfriendliness issues,
> and publicity. You understand it as superficial, I understand it as "could
> be superficial but SIGNIFICANT" and Its not just Linux,its everything in
> FOSS.
>>
>> Regards
>> Raje

Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Harish CM]

Look at it this way - as a sysadmin I would not want removable media (floppy
cd/dvd pen drives etc to enter (for fear of contamination of my network) or
taken away (information security) so much so such devices are disabled - and
that is precisely where the problem lies. Most of us are worried about one's
own machine and one is free to do whatever as long as it is standalone. Come
networking, the scenario changes drastically. DOS/Windows came into being in
the standalone mode and is good and functional in that environ.

Also, knowing more is, as far as I am concerned, better than knowing nothing
- it does it all for you- attitude is good enough as long as it works; when
it fails one does not know what is to be done - and that is bad

best/harish
.

On 11 May 2010 19:06, Yadu Nand  wrote:

> Hi Praveen,
>
> Just to clarify, please check this paste-->http://pastebin.com/Wuymp9Qn
> Thats the output from " sudo fdisk -l "
>
> > That is exactly what we are discussing, why is it not there by default?
> Because, Linux is not about someone else making choices for you. It's
> about giving the user control.
>
> > Why can't it just work, like in many distros? I get a nautilus window
> > popped up (I can turn the pop up if I want but still a click in places
> > or Computer windo mounts it) with the drive when I plug it.
> When I plug in my external drive with one NTFS drive and one ext3
> drive, they are automatically mounted.
>
> > That is exactly what we don't want to do. Why any user has to edit
> > /etc/fstab manually to get his external drive working?
> There are other ways to do. Editing fstab is not the only way
>
> --
> Thanks and Regards,
> Yadu Nand B
> (+91 94477 80725)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:33 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nishandh,
>
> It is not my fault that you cannot use Linux. Use what is given to
> you, improve it, do whatever. Just stop ranting. Do something
> constructive. Linux is not non-techies yet, despite what Ubuntu
> marketing has fooled you into believing. Deal with it. Move on.


> I don't come to you *ranting* about Derrida.

No you dont need to,but pls dont use Deconstruction techniques, saying u
recommend to "ban me", and then explaining it as "that was not what i meant"
it puts us to problem. for me, "*no such method *".

> I might take a course in
> that subject (paying teachers to teach me), or I might buy several
> books (pay authors to teach me).
>
We prefer buying from the one with best Corporate social responsibility
policy. And try e-books know? That they dont be at loss of heavy printing
charges, environmental pollution, and avoidance of loss if the printed is
not sold.

> I would certainly not ask anything
> before trying to find out on my own (such as via Google, or
> Wikipedia). I will use the limited resources of the people who make
> all this content available, in the most efficient manner possible.
>
Which you belive is the most efficient manner possible, but I think not.
The paper promisory note   -or currency-   has draw backs. Has no immediate
source infromation. There are easy and destructive ways to make.
http://www.countercurrents.org/curl030510.htm is an alternative, simply came
out in TimeBanking discussion group (not to be adopted here, it has lots of
problems, its just some history which worked out under conditions. But think
of getting to live, when a foreign monopoly from adeveloped nation is
imposing its international rates, without considering national economics of
developing/undeveloped nations. What if a company achieves monopoly with the
aid of patents it filed, and raising the product cost to extremes after it
has become a norm?)

> Linux was not created by people who send rant emails

Who said before?

> - it was created
> by a bunch of people who took what was available, used it despite all
> its shortcomings, and sometimes tried to make it better.
>
> You have stated that you are not willing to help yourself,

Yeah, not willing to learning code. its a disability too.I can make six
posters for Linux by the time i visualise an algorithm with operator
overriding, overloading and things like pointers in C. My brothers do
algorithm for me .

> nor are you
> willing to get help from manuals/blogs/source code, nor are you
> willing to pay someone else to do it for you.

I do pay. I have paid.(i have a genuine Windows vista buisiness edition, and
a win 7 ordered and paid,to be obtained in a week) and I pay for Linux too,
just that it is not in cash. I like the other way more. Looking for
affordable arrangements with FOSS video masters (Ready for cash transact, if
an MOU is achieved).

> Instead, you want a
> forum to post angry, ungrammatical (i.e., difficult to read) emails
> about linux not working for non-techies. You hope for free support but
> then you diss all the people who actually made this stuff for you to
> use.

I dint DISS ALL THE PEOPLE. Where did I? ur attempt to turn programmers
against me?they read everything, not just ur posts. waste time on it.
people get dissed when there is logic in what is said againist them and when
they feel they are responsible for it.

 We never put unknown strange men in bad clothes we meet on streets at gun
point, when they continuously say  F*** words, and utter real illogically.We
try to avoid them. Untill we feel ther is some logic in wat he says, which
others could understand in a wrong way. Untill they are real problem
according to our beliefs.

You say the developers who make this stuff are idiots and aren't
> obviosly thinking about the user.

I feel userfriendliness is not addressed the way it should be. U already
supported this view, saying linux is not upto non-techies. HOW DO I MEAN
THAT ALL PROGRAMMERS ARE IDIOTS?

> Are you sure you're worth responding
> to?
>
dont respond to me. i appreciate responses to the opinions i raise. THEY ARE
SHARED!

>
> Your language has definitely improved;

danks!

> I hope your explorations will
> go deeper than just superficial comments about the state of Linux.
>
I would listen to as far as i can, but deal with userfriendliness issues,
and publicity. You understand it as superficial, I understand it as "could
be superficial but SIGNIFICANT" and Its not just Linux,its everything in
FOSS.

>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

Dear Nishandh,

It is not my fault that you cannot use Linux. Use what is given to
you, improve it, do whatever. Just stop ranting. Do something
constructive. Linux is not non-techies yet, despite what Ubuntu
marketing has fooled you into believing. Deal with it. Move on.

I don't come to you *ranting* about Derrida. I might take a course in
that subject (paying teachers to teach me), or I might buy several
books (pay authors to teach me). I would certainly not ask anything
before trying to find out on my own (such as via Google, or
Wikipedia). I will use the limited resources of the people who make
all this content available, in the most efficient manner possible.
Linux was not created by people who send rant emails - it was created
by a bunch of people who took what was available, used it despite all
its shortcomings, and sometimes tried to make it better.

You have stated that you are not willing to help yourself, nor are you
willing to get help from manuals/blogs/source code, nor are you
willing to pay someone else to do it for you. Instead, you want a
forum to post angry, ungrammatical (i.e., difficult to read) emails
about linux not working for non-techies. You hope for free support but
then you diss all the people who actually made this stuff for you to
use. You say the developers who make this stuff are idiots and aren't
obviosly thinking about the user. Are you sure you're worth responding
to?

Your language has definitely improved; I hope your explorations will
go deeper than just superficial comments about the state of Linux.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

This is just a repetition of the above, with some high lighting. pardon for
using RTF, but I would like to get opinion on whether this seems offensive.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:01 AM, nishandh M  wrote:

> @Rajiv,
> I think its your nature to keep yourself irritated.
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
> rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jemshid KK  wrote:
>> > This mail may not have nothing much to deal with the subject of this
>> > discussion.
>> > But I know Nishanth and what his intentions are.
>> > Hence a few comments in the mailing list deserve a reply.
>> >
>> > On 11 May 2010 11:56:52 UTC+5:30, Rajeev J Sebastian
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> WTF does that mean?
>> >
>> > Seems Rajeev needs to give a thought before writing such a sentence in
>> this
>> > mailing list. There are certain common etiquette we practice in Kerala,
>> and
>> > we have been practicing in this mailing list.
>>
>> I gave a lot of thought before writing that email. If there is "common
>> etiquette we practice in Kerala" there is also a common etiquette that
>> should be practiced on the Web: before you ask stupid questions or
>> write ranting emails that make no sense, or have any grammatical
>> structure, you ought to
>>
>
> Let the standard of questions, formattiing etc be defined for the mailing
> list. its a positive thing. I have done a bad job of making language
> illegible, in an attempt to make it very short. Sorry for that, a second
> time.
>
>
>> 1) google for an answer
>>
>  Practical?
> User is supposed to own two systems,  and connect the other to repair the
> faulty system to discuss online. If both are down, spend 20Rs/hour at
> internet cafe. (consider the rate of breakdown at USER level, frequency of
> incidence of errors in the mailing list itself gives an idea). we need
> better support system, and afterall. a better OS.(productive plans for
> betterment of OS)
>
> 2) write to distro developers; learn to ask smart questions before you do
>> that
>>
> User resigns from job, and invest  time, energy and money in laerning
> code,  to ask smart questions.
>
> 3) send your stupid rants to distro mailing lists
>>
> I will try to make it more full in meaning and defenition. when i clearly
> explained that the specific error is *not* the issue, in the first post I
> made, priority should have to make opinions about what i presented as an
> issue.and not to rectify the problems, even without asking for necessary
> details.
>
>
>> 4) RTFM
>> 5) RTFS
>> 6) fix the source to do what you want
>>
> Do you mean *user* should learn manual, source code and determine things
> to sort? please refer to the earlier posts, in which the '*user*' is
> contextualy described. You mean software testers i think. Try imagining a
> response to saying that to a  7th-standard students crowd, who are  users of
> Linux. Get a car with a lot of Kevlar and Lexan.
>
>
>> 7) pay someone to fix the source to do what you want
>>
>> Yeah, we take and give. Its not just money. we contribute and get service
> in return. @Rajiv, ITS NOT LIKE YOUR "COPY RIGHTED" POSTS WHICH CANNOT BE
> USED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY FOR ANY OTHER PERSON who made a polite
> request. [as you mean in one of your previous post into this mailing list].
>
> Its not just PAY IN CASH. we are discussing more relevant and positive
> transaction systems. Time Banking is Roaring around.
>
>
>  >> If you cannot write English that anyone can
>> >> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>> >
>> > @ Rajeev
>> > Dont think that you are the only listener and developer in this mailing
>> > list.
>> > If you can't understand, it could be a problem with your intellect. Stay
>> > away Rajeev. You may feel good.
>>
>> I don't feel good at all dealing with people like you.
>
> OK. (but why?). and how do you correlate  it with the succeeding sentence
> you made?
>
>> If you cannot
>> deal with what you get with Ubuntu, then stop using it. Simple.
>>
>> It has been explained, wat is said of userfriendliness is not restricted
> to any distro or even platform.You dint read. you are targeting your weapons
> againist ubuntu. Reason? any other productive alternatives *for our
> society*?
>
>  I intentionally poked the behaviour of *intentionally making things
> complex* for the user in FOSS world. If a solution is implemented in one
> distro, and not readily adopted into another, then its *something else*which 
> is working inside. People has to be made aware, that these distros are
> not directed towards betterment of society, but intentionaly slowing down of
> evolution of linux. *Such distros and applications deserves no contributor
> attention*. Let some "ambassadors of propreitoryship" handle it.If any
> distro is found to be so, ilug-tvm should stop promoting it.
>
>
> If you want to help to improve it, learn a programming language, or
>> become a bug triager ... or even simpler, just report the goddamn bug.
>> Just stop

Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

@Rajiv,
I think its your nature to keep yourself irritated.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jemshid KK  wrote:
> > This mail may not have nothing much to deal with the subject of this
> > discussion.
> > But I know Nishanth and what his intentions are.
> > Hence a few comments in the mailing list deserve a reply.
> >
> > On 11 May 2010 11:56:52 UTC+5:30, Rajeev J Sebastian
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> WTF does that mean?
> >
> > Seems Rajeev needs to give a thought before writing such a sentence in
> this
> > mailing list. There are certain common etiquette we practice in Kerala,
> and
> > we have been practicing in this mailing list.
>
> I gave a lot of thought before writing that email. If there is "common
> etiquette we practice in Kerala" there is also a common etiquette that
> should be practiced on the Web: before you ask stupid questions or
> write ranting emails that make no sense, or have any grammatical
> structure, you ought to
>

Let the standard of questions, formattiing etc be defined for the mailing
list. its a positive thing. I have done a bad job of making language
illegible, in an attempt to make it very short. Sorry for that, a second
time.


> 1) google for an answer
>
 Practical?
User is supposed to own two systems,  and connect the other to repair the
faulty system to discuss online. If both are down, spend 20Rs/hour at
internet cafe. (consider the rate of breakdown at USER level, frequency of
incidence of errors in the mailing list itself gives an idea). we need
better support system, and afterall. a better OS.(productive plans for
betterment of OS)

2) write to distro developers; learn to ask smart questions before you do
> that
>
User resigns from job, and invest  time, energy and money in laerning code,
to ask smart questions.

3) send your stupid rants to distro mailing lists
>
I will try to make it more full in meaning and defenition. when i clearly
explained that the specific error is *not* the issue, in the first post I
made, priority should have to make opinions about what i presented as an
issue.and not to rectify the problems, even without asking for necessary
details.


> 4) RTFM
> 5) RTFS
> 6) fix the source to do what you want
>
Do you mean *user* should learn manual, source code and determine things to
sort? please refer to the earlier posts, in which the '*user*' is
contextualy described. You mean software testers i think. Try imagining a
response to saying that to a  7th-standard students crowd, who are  users of
Linux. Get a car with a lot of Kevlar and Lexan.


> 7) pay someone to fix the source to do what you want
>
> Yeah, we take and give. Its not just money. we contribute and get service
in return. @Rajiv, ITS NOT LIKE YOUR "COPY RIGHTED" POSTS WHICH CANNOT BE
USED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY FOR ANY OTHER PERSON who made a polite
request. [as you mean in one of your previous post into this mailing list].

Its not just PAY IN CASH. we are discussing more relevant and positive
transaction systems. Time Banking is Roaring around.


>> If you cannot write English that anyone can
> >> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
> >
> > @ Rajeev
> > Dont think that you are the only listener and developer in this mailing
> > list.
> > If you can't understand, it could be a problem with your intellect. Stay
> > away Rajeev. You may feel good.
>
> I don't feel good at all dealing with people like you.

OK. (but why?). and how do you correlate  it with the succeeding sentence
you made?

> If you cannot
> deal with what you get with Ubuntu, then stop using it. Simple.
>
> It has been explained, wat is said of userfriendliness is not restricted to
any distro or even platform.You dint read. you are targeting your weapons
againist ubuntu. Reason? any other productive alternatives *for our society*?


 I intentionally poked the behaviour of *intentionally making things complex
* for the user in FOSS world. If a solution is implemented in one distro,
and not readily adopted into another, then its *something else* which is
working inside. People has to be made aware, that these distros are not
directed towards betterment of society, but intentionaly slowing down of
evolution of linux. *Such distros and applications deserves no contributor
attention*. Let some "ambassadors of propreitoryship" handle it.If any
distro is found to be so, ilug-tvm should stop promoting it.


If you want to help to improve it, learn a programming language, or
> become a bug triager ... or even simpler, just report the goddamn bug.
> Just stop ranting!
>
positive. and would make somebody annoy if certain bugs of significance are
consistently not getting attention.(to annoy is not the right thing. Few
people takes it positively, and pokes back constructive.Would be used only
under circumstances.)

>
> >>
> >> You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
> >> emails are very irritating and a

Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jemshid KK  wrote:
> This mail may not have nothing much to deal with the subject of this
> discussion.
> But I know Nishanth and what his intentions are.
> Hence a few comments in the mailing list deserve a reply.
>
> On 11 May 2010 11:56:52 UTC+5:30, Rajeev J Sebastian
>  wrote:
>>
>> WTF does that mean?
>
> Seems Rajeev needs to give a thought before writing such a sentence in this
> mailing list. There are certain common etiquette we practice in Kerala, and
> we have been practicing in this mailing list.

I gave a lot of thought before writing that email. If there is "common
etiquette we practice in Kerala" there is also a common etiquette that
should be practiced on the Web: before you ask stupid questions or
write ranting emails that make no sense, or have any grammatical
structure, you ought to
1) google for an answer
2) write to distro developers; learn to ask smart questions before you do that
3) send your stupid rants to distro mailing lists
4) RTFM
5) RTFS
6) fix the source to do what you want
7) pay someone to fix the source to do what you want

>> If you cannot write English that anyone can
>> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>
> @ Rajeev
> Dont think that you are the only listener and developer in this mailing
> list.
> If you can't understand, it could be a problem with your intellect. Stay
> away Rajeev. You may feel good.

I don't feel good at all dealing with people like you. If you cannot
deal with what you get with Ubuntu, then stop using it. Simple.

If you want to help to improve it, learn a programming language, or
become a bug triager ... or even simpler, just report the goddamn bug.
Just stop ranting!

>>
>> You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
>> emails are very irritating and annoying.
>
> Rpeating @ Rajeev. Stay away you idiot.

WTF?!?!

>>
>> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
>
> Joke of the year !
>
> @Rajeev
> Hope you won't take things in the wrong sense.
>
> Coming to the point.
> Nishanth is the only person in the mailing list, who doesn't belong to the
> techie group and at the same time actively participating in the discussions.
> There is a point he is trying to convey to the developers. Those developers
> in the list who want to contribute some thing useful to an average user may
> listen to what he speak.

Don't you think developers of various distros ALREADY KNOW THIS FACT?
Everyone and his mother is trying to develop a "easy to use distro".
Such initiatives fail in large part due to LACK OF USER INVOLVEMENT.
Users tend to simply rant instead of being constructive. There are
tons of things you can do, none of which are "send ranting, irritating
annoying HTML email to unrelated mailing list".

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Yadu Nand]

@Jemshid
+1
:P


-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Yadu Nand B
(+91 94477 80725)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Jemshid KK]

This mail may not have nothing much to deal with the subject of this
discussion.
But I know Nishanth and what his intentions are.
Hence a few comments in the mailing list deserve a reply.

On 11 May 2010 11:56:52 UTC+5:30, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> WTF does that mean?

Seems Rajeev needs to give a thought before writing such a sentence in this
mailing list. There are certain common etiquette we practice in Kerala, and
we have been practicing in this mailing list.


> If you cannot write English that anyone can
> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>
@ Rajeev
Dont think that you are the only listener and developer in this mailing
list.
If you can't understand, it could be a problem with your intellect. Stay
away Rajeev. You may feel good.


> You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
> emails are very irritating and annoying.
>

Rpeating @ Rajeev. Stay away you idiot.


> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
>
Joke of the year !

@Rajeev
Hope you won't take things in the wrong sense.

Coming to the point.
Nishanth is the only person in the mailing list, who doesn't belong to the
techie group and at the same time actively participating in the discussions.
There is a point he is trying to convey to the developers. Those developers
in the list who want to contribute some thing useful to an average user may
listen to what he speak.

Regards
Jemshid

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Yadu Nand]

Hi Praveen,

Just to clarify, please check this paste-->http://pastebin.com/Wuymp9Qn
Thats the output from " sudo fdisk -l "

> That is exactly what we are discussing, why is it not there by default?
Because, Linux is not about someone else making choices for you. It's
about giving the user control.

> Why can't it just work, like in many distros? I get a nautilus window
> popped up (I can turn the pop up if I want but still a click in places
> or Computer windo mounts it) with the drive when I plug it.
When I plug in my external drive with one NTFS drive and one ext3
drive, they are automatically mounted.

> That is exactly what we don't want to do. Why any user has to edit
> /etc/fstab manually to get his external drive working?
There are other ways to do. Editing fstab is not the only way

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Yadu Nand B
(+91 94477 80725)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:55 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> @Rajiv,
> Old statements would be coming up as long as it is valid. from anybody
> frustrated.
> Who is actually tired? of what and why? Please expand, it shud have the
> answer.

Old tired statements are invalid, if nothing has been learned when
making them the last time.

Something that could be learned:
1) use bug trackers
2) discuss distro-specific issues with distro developers
3) communicate clearly and concisely
4) rant on distro mailing lists
5) stop saying Ubuntu is ready for regular users

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: mailing list best practices (was Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[nishandh M]

As of ART and tastes, it cannot be evaluated in a generalised way as in
science,

expressions like:
"i didnt like it"  is OK, but
"your way is wrong" could gather negative reactions.

The Rich Text Formating has an impact, but should not go upto the way as to
impact loss of focus or impart dizziness :P.  Agreed.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Praveen A  wrote:

> 2010/5/10 Hiran Venugopalan :
> > Background color, text color, different text size, italics, bold. All
> > in a paragraph!
> > Thanks for not using underlines and strike through. :)
> >
> > Personally my experience says it never attracts to read.
>
> Well, I did find it annoying too, especially with a green on black
> color theme I use. But it is equally annoying to see this kind of
> distractions [anything that deviates from the discussion] when you
> have a good discussion going on [it may be unavoidable]. It may be
> good to change subjects appropriately when a discussion turns in a
> different direction [me including].
> --
> പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
>  I know my rights; I want my phone call!
>  What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
> (as seen on /.)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

@ everybody, i poked a little too much, I poked those whom i felt are
answering with exceptions, and answering the peripheral issues. I know
everything doesnt make sense (cant help! sorry!) but there is some
sense,which i highlighted. Got poked for highlighting too. and there had
been some sensible replies. And i am satisfied with the kick i got. :D
--

@Rajiv,
Old statements would be coming up as long as it is valid. from anybody
frustrated.
Who is actually tired? of what and why? Please expand, it shud have the
answer.


On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Yadu Nand  wrote:

> @ Rajeev,
> > You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
> > emails are very irritating and annoying.
> It is a bit. I agree :P
>
> > I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
> Don't you think that is too much ? If you don't like his mail don't
> bother to read or even reply ? What is wrong with him posting
> his views on Linux. After all this is not a dev ML, its a user( FS*UG*)
> mailing list.
>
> --
> Thanks and Regards,
> Yadu Nand B
> (+91 94477 80725)
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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> http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
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> ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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mailing list best practices (was Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog)

[Praveen A]

2010/5/10 Hiran Venugopalan :
> Background color, text color, different text size, italics, bold. All
> in a paragraph!
> Thanks for not using underlines and strike through. :)
>
> Personally my experience says it never attracts to read.

Well, I did find it annoying too, especially with a green on black
color theme I use. But it is equally annoying to see this kind of
distractions [anything that deviates from the discussion] when you
have a good discussion going on [it may be unavoidable]. It may be
good to change subjects appropriately when a discussion turns in a
different direction [me including].
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/11 Yadu Nand :
> I do not really understand where is the difficulty in usability.There two
> alternative ways I use

That is exactly what we are discussing, why is it not there by default?

> 1. Go add the Disk Mounter applet to the gnome-panel

Why can't it just work, like in many distros? I get a nautilus window
popped up (I can turn the pop up if I want but still a click in places
or Computer windo mounts it) with the drive when I plug it.

> 2. Add the ntfs drive to /etc/fstab. This is easy and there are tons of 
> how-tos
> around,so just google for it.

That is exactly what we don't want to do. Why any user has to edit
/etc/fstab manually to get his external drive working?

It would be an option for internal drives, but why do it for external
drives when you don't even know what will be its device name (you
would need to play with udev if you want to do that).

Can someone else try an external ntfs formatted drive in Ubuntu?

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Yadu Nand]

@ Rajeev,
> You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
> emails are very irritating and annoying.
It is a bit. I agree :P

> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
Don't you think that is too much ? If you don't like his mail don't
bother to read or even reply ? What is wrong with him posting
his views on Linux. After all this is not a dev ML, its a user( FS*UG*)
mailing list.

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Yadu Nand B
(+91 94477 80725)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> OK. linux has no problems :D. and There is no need to point out complexities
> intentionally maintained.
>
> Ban me from this mailing list. Its no difference, for a non-code common man
> to be in this list.

Nishandh,

You take things in the wrong sense.

First, you put out emails which make no sense whatsoever.

Second, you keep saying Linux has issues. If there's anyone who might
agree with that statement, it would be me. I would go to the extent to
say that Ubuntu is not a distro made for the common man, despite all
its advertisements. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find a
distro that fits a common man, rather than someone who is technically
adept.

I would ban you, simply for point (1), i.e., making no sense at all,
and making the same old tired arguments.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

OK. linux has no problems :D. and There is no need to point out complexities
intentionally maintained.

Ban me from this mailing list. Its no difference, for a non-code common man
to be in this list.




On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
rajeev.sebast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:46 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
> > @ Rajiv & Hiran, the Rant (wikipedia helped) and RTF aesthetics will be
> > answered in an Off Topic thread.as It would be offensive to people who
> opts
> > not to spend  time for content with no direct impact on FOSS development
> in
> > this specific mailing List.Living beings respond, unfrotunately i feel
> madly
> > alive.
>
> WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
> understand, please refrain from writing at all!
>
> You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
> emails are very irritating and annoying.
>
> I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.
>
> Regards
> Rajeev J Sebastian
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:46 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
> @ Rajiv & Hiran, the Rant (wikipedia helped) and RTF aesthetics will be
> answered in an Off Topic thread.as It would be offensive to people who opts
> not to spend  time for content with no direct impact on FOSS development in
> this specific mailing List.Living beings respond, unfrotunately i feel madly
> alive.

WTF does that mean? If you cannot write English that anyone can
understand, please refrain from writing at all!

You don't make a whole lot of sense in this thread and your HTML
emails are very irritating and annoying.

I request the admin to ban this idiot from the mailing list.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Yadu Nand]

Hi,

@Praveen ,
> Can anybody try to access ntfs partitions from Ubuntu and reply how is
> the experience?
Yes, I've been having an NTFS partition on my system and have been
accessing it from ubuntu since day1 of switching to ubuntu.
I do not really understand where is the difficulty in usability.There two
alternative ways I use
1. Go add the Disk Mounter applet to the gnome-panel
2. Add the ntfs drive to /etc/fstab. This is easy and there are tons of how-tos
around,so just google for it.

and @Nishandh , I agree with Hiran. The rich formatting looks weird and
IMHO childish. I believe that this mail is archived and is meant to have some
formal tone,so its better to have plain text. People will read the mail if they
think it's worth it,(it content,not colour that matters).

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Yadu Nand B
(+91 94477 80725)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

I have been* *lamenting on user friendliness for some time. the thread
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/45a1da9cb4fa4aca

and

http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/
thread/67564a2ffd87b8c8/03dd1791d37cdccf?lnk=gst&q=lazy#03dd1791d37cdccf

were some attempts ( I usually use all tools and devices of language and
art, to prioritise and give prominence to topics.It need not always be
applying 'diginity'ize the western way, to grab attention. Unlike the
guidelines provided by ubuntu translators/manual maker's guide, there is
some sarcasm in the language, which i belived i used positively, directing
the sarcasm on myself, and playing the role of a less-abled Linux
enthusiast.(not just role, i am just a begginer), I play a seemingly
powerless role, but not a loser's, as in Rajiv's expression {*active
submission, Havelock Ellis* heheh}. )


The specific concern is:
*Making FOSS userfriendly*. As of now, its a *developers Playground*,An *IT
professional's PowerTool* (networking / server end) and a medium level
user's alternative Tool (DTP / educational). Wide spread usage, is what we
need if Hardware providers should start providing drivers and code.  We cant
make alternative hardware in most cases,because of patenting issues.

Professionals (Medical / Media stations etc) need flawless, updated
capabilities, and instant professional support, which is also falls in user
friendliness.

what i tried to explain was an attitude, specifying an example which seemed
illogical*, that too from a heavily forum-supported Distro provider, the
Ubuntu by canonical. This pulls the Distro back from its intended explosive
speeds of spreading. Many such problems exists, either due to administrators
or contributors attitude regarding how much user friendly it should be.
Linux distros as a whole collection, is capable of peaking over other
distros, but in daily life, its more specialist- dependant than other OSes.
this seems intentional atleast in some cases.
*Non-automisation of a proven solution to an existing problem then.


@ Rajiv & Hiran, the Rant (wikipedia helped) and RTF aesthetics will be
answered in an Off Topic thread.as It would be offensive to people who opts
not to spend  time for content with no direct impact on FOSS development in
this specific mailing List.Living beings respond, unfrotunately i feel madly
alive.

@ Srihari, agreed with every word, u spoke about customisation,But it would
be better if the user can customise OS/applications at home, without the
help of a API library dependancy specialist.simply stated, *more easily* :P.


any opinions on the follow:
do we need to *declare* some *unified priorities* in ilug-tvm? what would be
the priorities then?

are we breaking it apart just because of our intolerance of others view? why
the trend is to make new "my systems" when we have the oppurtunity to
contribute to active, widely used and long-term-commited distros and men
sweating behind it? It is a pity that such systems are initiated by ventures
without even manpower and basic infrastructure to maintain it. Short term
heroes, doing more harm than good. Can be compared with 'parallel strikes' -
the *samaandhara samaram* used in suppressing tribal issues. people got
scattered in many war fronts,not knowing which to join, scattered, dead. The
feud "supported" the war with many leaders, but too many of them. Tactically
appered supportive, strategicallly it was suppressive. We need to break only
if the parent system is destructive in effect, of its proposed idea.


*"Intolerance is a crime"  - DW Griffith in his film "Intolerance" (1916)
*


On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Hiran Venugopalan wrote:

> On 10 May 2010 21:19, nishandh M  wrote:
> > thanks, evrybody again,
> > @ Hiran, Rich texting is my policy to attract to specific points, when am
> > typing longer than a tweet.I am sticking to my issue: Readability(part of
> > userfriendliness). subscribing to anoops("be the change" philosophy in
> > smaller issues :) ) I will simply text it if I have a better reason  [I
> hope
> > i didnt use any offensive formatting ? :) ]
>
> Background color, text color, different text size, italics, bold. All
> in a paragraph!
> Thanks for not using underlines and strike through. :)
>
> Personally my experience says it never attracts to read.
> --
> Hiran Venugopalan
> Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
> IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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> For details visi

Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Hiran Venugopalan]

On 10 May 2010 21:19, nishandh M  wrote:
> thanks, evrybody again,
> @ Hiran, Rich texting is my policy to attract to specific points, when am
> typing longer than a tweet.I am sticking to my issue: Readability(part of
> userfriendliness). subscribing to anoops("be the change" philosophy in
> smaller issues :) ) I will simply text it if I have a better reason  [I hope
> i didnt use any offensive formatting ? :) ]

Background color, text color, different text size, italics, bold. All
in a paragraph!
Thanks for not using underlines and strike through. :)

Personally my experience says it never attracts to read.
--
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:19 PM, nishandh M  wrote:
> in the terminal. That is the point. That is exactly the point. Why shud we
> manually do that every time? It could have been done in a single click,
> accepting the risks whether its legal or security issue.

Not sure whether you're a software developer or not, but what you
described is exactly the process of development.

1) Someone or other identifies an issue or a feature which is missing, and
2) asks the developer to add it.
3) If the development team or management feels this issue is important
to fix, or this feature is a "killer", then it will be added to a
specific milestone.
Otherwise it will be dropped or it will languish in bug tracker hell.
4) Developers fix and/or code issues/features, either as a patch or
directly into version control
5) management releases code or software product when the milestone date arrives.

This process happens in all kinds of software development, be it
proprietary or FLOSS. It happens for (small, very small, very very
small, very very very small, big, large) X (bugs, features). (Note:
the X is a Cartesian product).

In the FLOSS world, step (2) can usually be divided into sub steps:

2a) User rants on mailing list, along with several peripheral issues,
rants, etc.
2b) User is asked either to contribute or fuck off
2c) Someone tells user to file a bug
2d) User repeats rant, and additionally rants about being a luser and
therefore not knowing anything other than sending rant-emails.
2e) User or someone else, actually files a bug. Note, this step might
not happen at all.
2f) If user has time or cares about bug, he will file it at the bug tracker

I think, so far all steps upto 2d have occurred. Well, maybe not, but
Im not following that closely.

IMHO, you may stop sending emails like "oh im a luser so ..." and "oh
why linux sucks for desktop ..." and "oh i found bug... OMG BBQ", and
directly go to step 2e. Or if you are a developer, go to step 4.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Hiran Venugopalan]

On 10 May 2010 20:53, Praveen A  wrote:
> 2010/5/10 Hiran Venugopalan :
>> Nishandh, mail as plain text. Please dont rich text mails to ML.
>
> Hiran,
>
> Give me one reason.

for not using rich text? Its unreadable. A word in red with huge size,
and red color between normal sentence. I cant focus to the sentence
but only to the word.
-- 
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Srihari k]

Hi Nishand,
I have a point to make:
User friendliness is about how comfortable the user is with the
computer he/she is using.So every one will need his computer tuned to
his own tastes.So is it not better that one chooses a distro that will
mostly suite his computer usage(coarse tuning).Spend some time with
the distro get familiar with it..change what you dont like and add
what you like completely based on YOUR like and dislike(fine tune).And
this fine tuning may include tweaking and may be automating your
regular tasks you do.And when you have such a computer completely
tuned to your tastes you will definitely be fast and productive.
Hope i made it clear
I am ready to help you..sad to hear that your computer's
unfriendliness is effecting your productivity.

Please do start a new thread.the subject line of this one  is irritating.
--
Srihari

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[nishandh M]

thanks, evrybody again,

@ Hiran, Rich texting is my policy to attract to specific points, when am
typing longer than a tweet.I am sticking to my issue: Readability(part of
userfriendliness). subscribing to anoops("be the change" philosophy in
smaller issues :) ) I will simply text it if I have a better reason  [I hope
i didnt use any offensive formatting ? :) ]

@ Specific issue handlers: [eventhough i repeated twice, its not the issue,
but the approach]
The issue I spoke arouse when i pushed a Portable HDD which was unable to
safely removed from WinXP because of a virus.Fat and ext partitions were
accessed, but contents of NTFS were not available. It was Ubuntu OS,
probably a 9.04 LTS, showed up with a dialoge stating that if i do type the
statement provided on the dialog box into a terminal , i would be able to
access it. A friend of mine was able to do mount it, buy "doing something"
in the terminal. That is the point. That is exactly the point. Why shud we
manually do that every time? It could have been done in a single click,
accepting the risks whether its legal or security issue.

@Praveen , thats what we call creative, thanks for reporting to nautilus. I
always allow system generated bug reports,especialyy a lot using VLC for not
playing media fromats. but have never done a manual bug report. i have
posted  suggestions to this list, and has asked Narendra sisodaya to add
 features to his School OS initiative regarding Win>Linux migration
friendliness. I am gonna be a part of the  "make-it-user friendly
initiative" (non-programming parts, like user surveys, graphical
representations and all, at a pace which wont hurt my career).

and there are two options, 'safely remove hardware' and 'eject' in windows.
[in case of card readres:]the first shuts off the card reader, the second
releases only the card.i donno about the tech aspcets, just saw it works
different.no need to pull out the whole card readre evry time.



On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Hiran Venugopalan wrote:

> On 9 May 2010 02:42, nishandh M  wrote:
>
> Nishandh, mail as plain text. Please dont rich text mails to ML.
> --
> Hiran Venugopalan
> Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
> IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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#//#

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/10 Hiran Venugopalan :
> Nishandh, mail as plain text. Please dont rich text mails to ML.

Hiran,

Give me one reason.
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Hiran Venugopalan]

On 9 May 2010 02:42, nishandh M  wrote:

Nishandh, mail as plain text. Please dont rich text mails to ML.
-- 
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Praveen A]

2010/5/9 Sebin Jacob :
> Dear Nisandh,
>
> Till this day, I haven't once used command line to mount an NTFS external
> drive in my arch linux machine. I have a WD external hard disk, which is
> password protected in windows, but opens up even without asking any password
> in my arch machine. I had also opened several other external hard disks in
> this system, most of which were only used before with windows. So your
> problem may not be that generic. Try changing distros man, or at least, your
> DE. Think beyond Ubuntu.

Sebin,

Though all of us have our favorite distros, I think, changing distros
or DE is not a nice solution to basic issues like this.

Can anybody try to access ntfs partitions from Ubuntu and reply how is
the experience?

Nishandh,

Can you explain the problem again? Why are you using the command line?
Just to avoid entering password you are going to command line?
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 8:00 AM, BINNY THOMAS  wrote:
>
> True, but some of the faults that are supposedly with Linux are not actually
> Linux's fault isn't it? I mean lack of hardware support and proper drivers?

As if that's the only failure of Linux :P I have faced situations in
which drivers are not available for some specific version of Windows
too.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[Sebin Jacob]

Dear Nisandh,

Till this day, I haven't once used command line to mount an NTFS external
drive in my arch linux machine. I have a WD external hard disk, which is
password protected in windows, but opens up even without asking any password
in my arch machine. I had also opened several other external hard disks in
this system, most of which were only used before with windows. So your
problem may not be that generic. Try changing distros man, or at least, your
DE. Think beyond Ubuntu.

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] Linux haters blog

[BINNY THOMAS]

Hi,

 @NIshandh

Wow! That was a pretty long description about the lack of user friendliness
in Linux.   You are right, Linux has to do a better job at  targeting new
users. Some techie users might feel that they might lose their edge if Linux
became a childs play.

But Linux is getting better everyday.

Regards
Binny
-- 

http://binny88.wordpress.com

-- 
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"Freedom Unplugged"
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