date:20130825

On 24 August 2013 21:25, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

 On 23/08/2013 janI wrote:

 I am sure andrea will help you, in case you have problems. I prefer a more
 secure way of translation.


 Let's agree on what to do in these cases. You wrote to Erland Someone
 will make you an account and I, well, understood this as an indication
 that I should create an account... But I may have misunderstood. Obviously
 I don't want to enforce a policy on the Danish translation.

 Do you prefer to keep Danish volunteers in suggestions only mode until
 you can judge the quality of their work? This is an option too, and I've
 absolutely no problem to adopt it only for Danish and, on a case-by-case
 basis, for other languages where we have native speakers who are already
 committers and can thus review suggestions.

 If this is OK, I won't Pootle create accounts for Danish volunteers in
 future and I'll leave handling of Danish volunteers, and account creation
 at due time (i.e., when you judge that an account should be created), to
 you.


No need to make exceptions to the rule. I do not agree with, but accept our
policy on pootle, I much prefer the general apache way (first submit a few
patches to show you are serious, then get access), as a consequence danes
should not be treated differently.

I am currently involved in far too much non-motivating work for AOO, so it
is better that the danish translators do as other translators and use the
list for answers.

rgds
jan I.






 Regards,
   Andrea.

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Need AOO in my language: from other.html

2013-08-25 Thread Jsjdn Xnssn

German

Fwd: [CONF] Apache OpenOffice Community Localization Volunteers

2013-08-25 Thread Christos Stefanidis

I forward a request from user Anh Phan asking the following about cwiki
please advice.

Moreover I don't know if is a good idea to delete a name from a list.
Someone could just add anonymous suggestion to pootle or done something
that for his effort it might be worthy mentioned. Also I think this list is
more about organizing, give feedback to new volunteers and that someone
could land here to just say that is available to help. I'm wrong?
*
*


-- Forwarded message --
From: Anh Phan (Confluence) conflue...@apache.org
Date: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:41 PM
Subject: [CONF] Apache OpenOffice Community  Localization Volunteers
To: xstefani...@gmail.com


   Localization
Volunteershttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Volunteers?focusedCommentId=34016923#comment-34016923
Page
*comment added* by Anh
Phanhttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/~ppanhh

By the reason of non-activity in localizing native language of Vietnamese,
I have deleted the name of user Trần Đình Ngọc Anh on the Localization
List for Vietnamese.

Besides, I also want to ask about:
1. Can I translate a localized version of this site - cwiki - into
Vietnamese version?
2. Assume that this suggestion is accepted. Will I have to remake all the
screenshots in Vietnamese or keep the original screenshots?
3. Besides answering to this comment, please send me back an email for
further contact.
  Stop watching
pagehttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/users/removepagenotification.action?pageId=29130766
| Change email notification
preferenceshttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/users/editmyemailsettings.action
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Reply
To 
Thishttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Volunteers?replyToComment=34016923#comment-34016923

Re: [CONF] Apache OpenOffice Community Localization Volunteers

Nam:Anh Phan
Position:Vietnamese Localization
Subject: Reply to Christos Stefanidis about deleting translator Tran Dinh
Thuc Anh on Cwiki page.
___

1. Till this time, the name of that translator appeared with no acitivity
for Vietnamese Localization.
As you have refered the term annonymous, that translator would contact to
me with my email (already on the mailing list) if she were stil active.
In that case, the problem would be solved.

2. Would you please set up a localization page for Vietnames on Cwikipage
for me?
I am looking forward to receiving your reply.


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Christos Stefanidis
xstefani...@gmail.comwrote:

 I forward a request from user Anh Phan asking the following about cwiki
 please advice.

 Moreover I don't know if is a good idea to delete a name from a list.
 Someone could just add anonymous suggestion to pootle or done something
 that for his effort it might be worthy mentioned. Also I think this list is
 more about organizing, give feedback to new volunteers and that someone
 could land here to just say that is available to help. I'm wrong?
 *
 *


 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Anh Phan (Confluence) conflue...@apache.org
 Date: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:41 PM
 Subject: [CONF] Apache OpenOffice Community  Localization Volunteers
 To: xstefani...@gmail.com


Localization
 Volunteers
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Volunteers?focusedCommentId=34016923#comment-34016923
 
 Page
 *comment added* by Anh
 Phanhttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/~ppanhh

 By the reason of non-activity in localizing native language of Vietnamese,
 I have deleted the name of user Trần Đình Ngọc Anh on the Localization
 List for Vietnamese.

 Besides, I also want to ask about:
 1. Can I translate a localized version of this site - cwiki - into
 Vietnamese version?
 2. Assume that this suggestion is accepted. Will I have to remake all the
 screenshots in Vietnamese or keep the original screenshots?
 3. Besides answering to this comment, please send me back an email for
 further contact.
   Stop watching
 page
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/users/removepagenotification.action?pageId=29130766
 
 | Change email notification
 preferences
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/users/editmyemailsettings.action
 View Online
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Volunteers?focusedCommentId=34016923#comment-34016923
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 Reply
 To This
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Localization+Volunteers?replyToComment=34016923#comment-34016923

Re: Pootle User Guide progress

2013-08-25 Thread Dick Groskamp


Op 24-8-2013 19:00, Regina Henschel schreef:
==  1 comment inline ==

Hi Dick,

Dick Groskamp schrieb:

Regina,

I think I figured it out with respect to the links at the bottom of
the page and the use of OrigLang and Lang templates. 
It seems there are two approaches:
1 : with the templates OrigLang and Lang
2 : with a separate template that refers to a dedicated namespace (root
path)
 like 
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Template:Documentation/Languages

 which is used at for instance
http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=NL/Documentation

Option 1 will place a bar on the topside of the page with boxes that
references to the subpages of the translated page, which will be
placed UNDER the referred page so: Pootle user guide will become
Pootle user guide/nl/Pootle gebruikersgids for Dutch. On the
translated page will be boxes that refer to other translations of
that page (with other words: it will build a tree of translated
below the original page)



Option 2 will place the references in the left column of the wiki

I think it will be necessary to first establish what is wanted.


+1



Option 1 will be a new approach whilst option 2 continues with the
old behaviour but will have probably no need for dedicated
namespaces, since the translated files are placed below the
original. This will however scatter the translations, not keeping
them by Language as is in the Documentation-project


I like to see all translated pages as subpages of their language code.

Wasn't it, that some time ago all structures Documentation/nl/ were 
changed and redirected to NL/Documentation, for example? If yes, then 
we should stick to the schema LangCode/translatedContent.
That is correct.  We were working on several translations under 
Documentation/nl when it was decided that all languages should have 
their own namespace. Within that namespace Documentation was created.
The Pootle user guide for Dutch is currently residing in NL/Localisatie 
another namespace under NL/
So I assume there will be a lot of languages that already have there 
Documentation onder the language ISOcode

for instance DE/Documentation :)


Another reasons, why I don't like the solution with OrigLang and Lang 
templates:
* The row needs new space and takes it from the height. The other two 
options use the already existing column. Current wide-screens have 
more free place in the width than in the height.
* Users are used to have the language links in the left column, 
because Wikipedia works this way.





Option 2 will probably require modification of
Template:Documentation/Languages to
establish a new template with a path for Pootle related items als well
as dedicated language spaces


That might be overkill for a handful pages. I looked at your examples 
and from a technical point of view, I think it is doable.




And then, off course, there is option 3:

Simply putting the full name of the file, preceded by the ISO-code
between square brackets
at the bottom of the page will put it in the left column of the wiki.
Like  [[de:DE/Documentation/BASIC_Guide]] for the page BASIC guide 
which is

in the namespace Documentation of the namespace DE



That will give links in the left column, similar to options 2. Each 
translator would have to add such a link when translate the page. If I 
add a comment at the bottom of the page, which explains what to do, it 
should be possible.



For me it is a decision between option 2 or option 3.

Kind regards
Regina
I would go for option 3 then. Assuming we are only speaking of the 
Pootle User Guide.

Every translator can indeed add his own link at the bottom of the page.
Most effecient way according to me

--
DiGro
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Pootle Search Tilde

I have run into a number of cases where the tilde symbol seems to 
distort the expected search results. If one enters a word that has a 
tilde symbol inserted somewhere in the middle of it, the occurrence of 
that word are not returned by the search engine.


I have not tested this scenario in detail as I am too busy with the 
Lithuanian translation, but if it in fact the case, it would be nice to 
have an filter option in the search engine that would assume the tilde 
symbol as not being a part of linguistic expressions.


Best regards,

Aivaras

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Re: Pootle Search Tilde


OK.

2013.08.25 14:26, janI rašė:

On 25 August 2013 13:19, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:


I have run into a number of cases where the tilde symbol seems to distort
the expected search results. If one enters a word that has a tilde symbol
inserted somewhere in the middle of it, the occurrence of that word are not
returned by the search engine.

I have not tested this scenario in detail as I am too busy with the
Lithuanian translation, but if it in fact the case, it would be nice to
have an filter option in the search engine that would assume the tilde
symbol as not being a part of linguistic expressions.

When you find time, please research it, and if it is a real bug, create a

Bugzilla issue.

rgds
jan I.



Best regards,

Aivaras

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Re: Help Translation.

2013-08-25 Thread Dick Groskamp


Op 25-8-2013 1:23, Regina Henschel schreef:

Hi Jan,

janI schrieb:

On Aug 24, 2013 10:14 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

[..]

You cannot speak about name= so generally, there is a big difference
between UI strings and help strings.



I was assuming that we were talking about the Help.


For help its a different matter, there name= is used to generate an 
index
(happened last time in 2009, so actually quite outdated, have a 
look at

the

tree files in svn)



This rings a bell... what is the index used for? Is it a Search index
or a Table of Contents index? I'm thinking of this, still unclear, 
issue:

https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=122871


I think that is a different problem.



The scripts I know of (helpcontent2/util) generates tree files for 
some but

not all product parts. The tree files are sent to translation (eg.
helpcontent2/source/text/sbasic/makefile.mk) and then used to make a 
table

of content.


Are you sure the scripts are intended to be still used. Or were they 
only used in the beginning when the content was transformed from the 
old help system to helpcontent2?




However I see no evidence (tree files are in svn) that these scripts was
used for 3.4.1 or 4.0, so I assume fhat TOC is outdated (at least it 
is on

my pc).


I think it is actual. I have written the new file for the sidebar 
window (shared/text/shared/guide/sidebar_window.xhp). You find it in 
the TOC unter Common Help Topics  Working with the User Interface  
Sidebar Window. And in the German version of AOO4.0 it is there too, 
now with the translated headings Modulunabhängige Hilfethemen  
Arbeiten mit der Benutzeroberfläche  Symbolleisten Fenster.


For to get my new file shown in the TOC I have added a line in 
helpcontent2/source/auxiliary/shared.tree


I think, it is up to the author, whether the file is shown in the TOC 
or not.








Since it seems I am a minority in here, I will refrain from promoting

what

correspond to the sources we actually use.



We just need knowledge, nothing more. So in the UI you say that Danish

did not translate the name attributes and everything still works. And
indeed, since new volunteers are working on the UI first (which I was
forgetting), this is enough.


Regina and me clearly had the Help in mind. But now I'm still curious:

what happens if one does not translate the name attribute in the help?
Besides the obvious observation that most languages appear to 
translate it

and to have done so for ages, what exactly would break here?

talking only about help, nothing will change unless somebody invokes the
scripts to make a new TOC. Standard TOC are in english and I can the 
tree

file is translated to several lang. If the scripts are invoked, and both
namre= and tree is translated correct a new TOC will be available.

I work on replacing this very manual part.


It is not clear to me, what you will do. There exists more files than 
should be shown in the Contents page of the help. The intension had 
been, to change the help towards guides and hide those parts from 
directly viewing, which are only internal helpers.


Therefore for translators and help review the file allfiles.tree had 
been generated, to give really all files. And that one is indeed not 
up to date, but there had been a script, see 
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=69273 for it. I don't 
know, whether it still exists.


Kind regards
Regina

Regina is right.
I now remember that allfiles.tree and main_transform.xsl were used in 
the big review of the Help to go into OOo 2.0
We back then made a big review and allfilles.tree added temporarily some 
extras to the Help so we could identify the strings  As far as I know it 
was never intended to be used on the actual releases of OOo 2.0 and 
higher itself.


It should be considered outdated and not to be used I assume. It was 
merely a helper contstruction that was useful then but has no merit anymore.


--
DiGro
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Re: Help Translation.

2013-08-25 Thread Dick Groskamp


Op 25-8-2013 1:23, Regina Henschel schreef:

Hi Jan,

janI schrieb:

On Aug 24, 2013 10:14 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

[..]

You cannot speak about name= so generally, there is a big difference
between UI strings and help strings.



I was assuming that we were talking about the Help.


For help its a different matter, there name= is used to generate an 
index
(happened last time in 2009, so actually quite outdated, have a 
look at

the

tree files in svn)



This rings a bell... what is the index used for? Is it a Search index
or a Table of Contents index? I'm thinking of this, still unclear, 
issue:

https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=122871


I think that is a different problem.



The scripts I know of (helpcontent2/util) generates tree files for 
some but

not all product parts. The tree files are sent to translation (eg.
helpcontent2/source/text/sbasic/makefile.mk) and then used to make a 
table

of content.


Are you sure the scripts are intended to be still used. Or were they 
only used in the beginning when the content was transformed from the 
old help system to helpcontent2?




However I see no evidence (tree files are in svn) that these scripts was
used for 3.4.1 or 4.0, so I assume fhat TOC is outdated (at least it 
is on

my pc).


I think it is actual. I have written the new file for the sidebar 
window (shared/text/shared/guide/sidebar_window.xhp). You find it in 
the TOC unter Common Help Topics  Working with the User Interface  
Sidebar Window. And in the German version of AOO4.0 it is there too, 
now with the translated headings Modulunabhängige Hilfethemen  
Arbeiten mit der Benutzeroberfläche  Symbolleisten Fenster.


For to get my new file shown in the TOC I have added a line in 
helpcontent2/source/auxiliary/shared.tree


I think, it is up to the author, whether the file is shown in the TOC 
or not.








Since it seems I am a minority in here, I will refrain from promoting

what

correspond to the sources we actually use.



We just need knowledge, nothing more. So in the UI you say that Danish

did not translate the name attributes and everything still works. And
indeed, since new volunteers are working on the UI first (which I was
forgetting), this is enough.


Regina and me clearly had the Help in mind. But now I'm still curious:

what happens if one does not translate the name attribute in the help?
Besides the obvious observation that most languages appear to 
translate it

and to have done so for ages, what exactly would break here?

talking only about help, nothing will change unless somebody invokes the
scripts to make a new TOC. Standard TOC are in english and I can the 
tree

file is translated to several lang. If the scripts are invoked, and both
namre= and tree is translated correct a new TOC will be available.

I work on replacing this very manual part.


It is not clear to me, what you will do. There exists more files than 
should be shown in the Contents page of the help. The intension had 
been, to change the help towards guides and hide those parts from 
directly viewing, which are only internal helpers.


Therefore for translators and help review the file allfiles.tree had 
been generated, to give really all files. And that one is indeed not 
up to date, but there had been a script, see 
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=69273 for it. I don't 
know, whether it still exists.


Kind regards
Regina


There is still some ancient info about this on our dinosaur-pages

http://www.openoffice.org/nl/coordinatingpage.html  and
http://www.openoffice.org/nl/t9n_nl2_en.html

--
DiGro
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Typo in English (occured)

2013-08-25 Thread Maciej Jaros

Found this while invigilating LO ;-). Most are in 
connectivity/source/resource.oo, one in desktop/win32/source/setup.oo. 
It says occured, it should say occurred.


Regards,
Nux.

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Re: Pootle 3.4.x projects.

2013-08-25 Thread Andrea Pescetti


On 20/08/2013 Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

On 8/17/13 5:50 PM, janI wrote:

our current source is svn where we have decided to store sdf files. To me,
at least, items outside svn is temporary. I would not know where to store
the po files so another person might find them sometime in the future.

all languages in the AOO 4.0 project includes all changes from AOO 3.4
and merged with the new templates. Languages that are not yet in AOO 4.0
have to merged in the same way. I didn't find the time to do it.
Before we delete anything we should make clear we have saved everything.


I see that now 3.4 is not listed any longer at 
https://translate.apache.org/ and this is absolutely OK (volunteers 
won't be confused).


As for saving, I didn't mean that 3.4 PO files should be preserved for 
eternity, but just that we keep them for a few weeks on the Pootle 
machine's filesystem, with no commitment (even with no backup), as a 
convenience in case volunteers ask for them or in case Juergen needs 
them for the merge he was mentioning (but the merge maybe has 
already been done, since Bulgarian is enabled for 4.0 and progressing 
very well, and for Indonesian we have a 4.0 project and new volunteers).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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One suggestion for easier translation

2013-08-25 Thread Vladislav Stevanovic

Hello,
I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
AOO.
(Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
easier?) That is good.
I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
ui, and how to find them in ui.
Example: Current selection Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to translate
is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action. So,
somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
and is it possible to do this.
We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
much more better translation.

Regards
Stevanović Vladislav

Re: Help Translation.

2013-08-25 Thread Regina Henschel


Hi Dick,

Dick Groskamp schrieb:

Op 25-8-2013 1:23, Regina Henschel schreef:

[..]

I now remember that allfiles.tree and main_transform.xsl were used in
the big review of the Help to go into OOo 2.0
We back then made a big review and allfilles.tree added temporarily some
extras to the Help so we could identify the strings  As far as I know it
was never intended to be used on the actual releases of OOo 2.0 and
higher itself.

It should be considered outdated and not to be used I assume. It was
merely a helper contstruction that was useful then but has no merit
anymore.



It is not so worse as you describe it. The file is nearly correct, see 
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-users-de/201306.mbox/browser 
(German). The file can still be used and is really useful for 
translating the help, only few new files of the help are missing.


Kind regards
Regina







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Re: One suggestion for easier translation

I love this idea. But through my experience in translations, both on
Transifex and couple of projects, this hasn't been discussed about before.

The way to do this is under each entry / important entry / misunderstood
entry / confusing entry, there would be a link to the image in comment box.

If this is true, and supported by the community, wow, would be a
revolutionary in translation.
Because of showing images/sreenshots for terms, not only good for
translation, but it's also better in reviewing.

But.
When this becomes real, at least 500 hundred pictures (with the progress of
translation in AOO 4x).

A lot of people have discussed about this feature, some translators even
suggested that reeditting the code of pootle server to display image in
the comment box.
Well, this is a step further, at this time for Pootle Server and on their
plan, Pootle Developers Group show no interest in this kind of ideas.

Re: Pootle 3.4.x projects.

2013-08-25 Thread Andrea Pescetti


janI wrote:

Before I finally removed the files, of course, being who I am, I made sure
that they were on the backup system.


And that is perfect, Jan. Thanks for doing it. That addresses my 
concern. But really, don't be annoyed for me just asking (and indeed, 
for asking late).



I do my work professionally, use the decision systems we have in place, and
dont like these kind of complains, which only purpose seems to be to
highlight how good the complainers are, compared to my bad work.


My e-mail did not contain any complaints, I totally respect your work 
and professionalism and I wonder how one could mistake a very ordinary 
mail for an attempt to discredit your work. That totally wasn't the 
intention...



its clear to me that I am the wrong person to this job.  ...
thanks for the lack of support.


I still believe that you are the best person on the PMC to do this job, 
and that the community should be thankful to you (as it is) for taking 
our infrastructure to a new level. I'm sorry that in a couple of 
occasions this weekend we had misunderstandings leading to unnecessary 
discussions... Please just assume good faith, and let's use our time on 
this list not to argue, but to move the project forward.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: One suggestion for easier translation

I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator 
has to go through to get his/her job done properly.


I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO 
file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say, 
Virtaal.


For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.

The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e. 
decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in 
whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that 
there is no UI to look at!


If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native 
Lithuanian (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for 
syntactical and grammatical context is even greater because one has to 
get right not only the concept of the original term but also the target 
grammatical form for that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...


Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and 
case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and 
amateurish, pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all 
the sad consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...


The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete 
linguistic elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to 
have a translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to 
edit the words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of 
efficiency and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the 
willingness of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.


A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic 
elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be 
surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of 
this sort.


These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at 
the moment.


Best wishes,

Aivaras


2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:

Hello,
I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
AOO.
(Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
easier?) That is good.
I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
ui, and how to find them in ui.
Example: Current selection Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to translate
is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action. So,
somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
and is it possible to do this.
We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
much more better translation.

Regards
Stevanović Vladislav




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Re: Pootle 3.4.x projects.

On 25 August 2013 19:47, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:

 janI wrote:

 Before I finally removed the files, of course, being who I am, I made sure
 that they were on the backup system.


 And that is perfect, Jan. Thanks for doing it. That addresses my concern.
 But really, don't be annoyed for me just asking (and indeed, for asking
 late).


  I do my work professionally, use the decision systems we have in place,
 and
 dont like these kind of complains, which only purpose seems to be to
 highlight how good the complainers are, compared to my bad work.


 My e-mail did not contain any complaints, I totally respect your work and
 professionalism and I wonder how one could mistake a very ordinary mail for
 an attempt to discredit your work. That totally wasn't the intention...


the mistake is easy when juergen writes Before we delete anything we
should make clear we have saved everything. and you write but just that
we keep them for a few weeks on the Pootle machine's filesystem, thats not
asking, when its done way after I deleted the files.

But lets just leave it, no need to discuss it endlessly.

rgds
jan I.

 its clear to me that I am the wrong person to this job.  ...

 thanks for the lack of support.


 I still believe that you are the best person on the PMC to do this job,
 and that the community should be thankful to you (as it is) for taking our
 infrastructure to a new level. I'm sorry that in a couple of occasions this
 weekend we had misunderstandings leading to unnecessary discussions...
 Please just assume good faith, and let's use our time on this list not to
 argue, but to move the project forward.


 Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: One suggestion for easier translation

You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.

Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
surprise.
Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing  Google
inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
have to get contact with them first).
Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
from Google  Bing.

And about the speed stuff.
Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
xvideos for free.
But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
have... in a single click of untranslated strings, and then, the speed
after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.

Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.

So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.

At least, we havent used the type of upstream any more, this is really a
disaster.
Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.

Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of cloud, this case, is good.
But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
role.

From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart attack,
honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.






On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

 I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
 has to go through to get his/her job done properly.

 I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
 file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
 Virtaal.

 For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.

 The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
 decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
 whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
 there is no UI to look at!

 If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native Lithuanian
 (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical and
 grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
 the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
 that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...

 Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
 case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and amateurish,
 pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
 consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...

 The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
 elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
 translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
 words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
 and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
 of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.

 A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
 elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
 surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
 this sort.

 These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at the
 moment.

 Best wishes,

 Aivaras


 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:

  Hello,
 I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
 AOO.
 (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
 easier?) That is good.
 I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
 suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
 there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
 ui, and how to find them in ui.
 Example: Current selection Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
 On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
 but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
 translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
 sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
 translate
 is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action.
 So,
 somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
 and is it possible to do this.
 We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
 much more better translation.

 Regards
 Stevanović Vladislav



 --**--**-
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgl10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail:

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of 
current programming practices and quitely likely against the current 
paradigm of organizing and running the whole thing (a multi-project 
platform).


A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even 
intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient 
once it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion 
for its goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human 
suffering caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.


No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may mediating 
services there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete 
decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be 
done in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D 
only to return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!


Best regards,

A.

2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
ever !

But, again with letter B, AOO is a huge project.
The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)

But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
I will vote for you.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:


Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!

As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
translation.

Best regards,

Aivaras


2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:


You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.

Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
surprise.
Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing  Google
inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
have to get contact with them first).
Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
from Google  Bing.

And about the speed stuff.
Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
xvideos for free.
But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
have... in a single click of untranslated strings, and then, the speed
after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.

Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.

So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.

At least, we havent used the type of upstream any more, this is really a
disaster.
Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.

Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of cloud, this case, is good.
But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
role.

From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
attack,
honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.






On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

  I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator

has to go through to get his/her job done properly.

I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
Virtaal.

For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.

The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
there is no UI to look at!

If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
Lithuanian
(other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical
and
grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...

Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
amateurish,
pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...

The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
of AOO

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

This email exchanging part and conversation is interesting.
I like to discuss in this way, it likes opening a whole new vision and door
of concept.
Thank bro.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:

 I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
 current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
 paradigm of organizing and running the whole thing (a multi-project
 platform).

 A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
 intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient once
 it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
 goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
 caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.

 No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may mediating services
 there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
 decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
 in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only to
 return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!

 Best regards,

 A.

 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

 As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
 ever !

 But, again with letter B, AOO is a huge project.
 The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
 when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)

 But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
 I will vote for you.


 On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
 astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

  Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
 Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!

 As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
 here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
 translation.


Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far fetched
to make something like that.

Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
translation workflow = genLang), its possible to  write an application that
edit a language pack.

Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.

However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus on
other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
tools to help the translation workflow.

rgds
jan I.




 Best regards,

 Aivaras


 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
 the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.

 Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
 you
 can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
 surprise.
 Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing 
 Google
 inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
 have to get contact with them first).
 Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
 from Google  Bing.

 And about the speed stuff.
 Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
 When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
 xvideos for free.
 But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
 that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
 have... in a single click of untranslated strings, and then, the speed
 after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.

 Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.

 So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
 money.

 At least, we havent used the type of upstream any more, this is
 really a
 disaster.
 Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.

 Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of cloud, this case, is good.
 But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
 leading
 role.

 From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
 attack,
 honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.






 On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
 astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

   I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a
 translator

 has to go through to get his/her job done properly.

 I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the
 PO
 file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with,
 say,
 Virtaal.

 For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.

 The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
 decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
 whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
 there is no UI to look at!

 If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
 Lithuanian
 (other examples

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

So, what about, for example, me, will volunteer in taking sreenshots.
For example, screenshot for table menu, format dialog
Then, I will upload those pictures to a site, take back the links to those
ones.
Then, I will send to you a text file that contains those link.
Then, you will insert links as comment.
How about that?

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

In fact, when discussing about this, we dont need to update or reprogram
pootle for anything.
why?

as I have said about taking screenshots, then past the link to the comment
box.
in my language.
then, the moderator such as Jan, will copy the content of my comment
box'content (contains the link to the picture) to all the rest of the other
languages.

the thing in here, is the copy in multiple. Can we do this Jan?

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

On 25 August 2013 21:36, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:

 That would be heaven, Jan!


but you do realize, that you still need pootle ?

Chances are that you miss one or more of the 73.000 strings we have in the
system, so you still need a pootle server (or equivalent) to show you the
strings you forgot.

While I think the UI method is good, it has a number of drawbacks.

- with pootle you can (and should) make a terminology file, that ensures
you translate e.g. cancel identical in all strings. I made a test for
fun, running trough our active languages, and in the best language cancel
was only translated to 2 different words (worst had 8 different words).

- Its hard to monitor progress (what did I already do, what have I left).

rgds
jan I.



 Best regards,

 Aivaras


 2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė:

 On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
 current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
 paradigm of organizing and running the whole thing (a multi-project
 platform).

 A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
 intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient
 once
 it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
 goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
 caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.

 No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may mediating
 services
 there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
 decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
 in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only
 to
 return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!

 Best regards,

 A.

 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
 ever !

 But, again with letter B, AOO is a huge project.
 The deployment for translation also take developers much time to
 maintain
 when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)

 But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO
 forums,
 I will vote for you.


 On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
 astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

   Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing
 the

 Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!

 As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The
 objective
 here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
 translation.

  Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far
 fetched
 to make something like that.

 Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
 just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
 translation workflow = genLang), its possible to  write an application
 that
 edit a language pack.

 Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
 keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
 I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.

 However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus
 on
 other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
 tools to help the translation workflow.

 rgds
 jan I.



  Best regards,

 Aivaras


 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

   You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic
 base on

 the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.

 Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
 you
 can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you
 big
 surprise.
 Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing 
 Google
 inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but
 you
 have to get contact with them first).
 Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using
 API
 from Google  Bing.

 And about the speed stuff.
 Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
 When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
 xvideos for free.
 But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3
 unstranslated,
 that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
 have... in a single click of untranslated strings, and then, the
 speed
 after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.

 Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.

 So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
 money.

 At least, we havent used the type of upstream any more, this is
 really a
 disaster.
 Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.

 Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of cloud, this case, is good.
 But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
 leading
 role.

 From your email of sharing about foobar, this would

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

Suddenly, I think about the bandwith.
With such a bandwith like that, google picasa service is a good choice to
start: free, unlimited bandwith (with the usage just from L10n team).

Even more, we will take not only single sreenshot to each entry.
We could put for example.
The screenshot for Format Dialog is 10, put it in one, paste the link.
This solution will cause less the copying feature.

Well, this is more interesting!

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate 
back the language data to the remote server.


If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also 
could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just 
a complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a 
much more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.


Best wishes,

Aivaras

2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!




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Re: One suggestion for easier translation

On 25 August 2013 21:41, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

 In fact, when discussing about this, we dont need to update or reprogram
 pootle for anything.
 why?

 as I have said about taking screenshots, then past the link to the comment
 box.
 in my language.
 then, the moderator such as Jan, will copy the content of my comment
 box'content (contains the link to the picture) to all the rest of the other
 languages.

 the thing in here, is the copy in multiple. Can we do this Jan?


Please have a look at the po file definition, using pictures is not a
pootle restriction, the po files only define text in comments. And copying
po files can be done by anyone.

rgds
jan I.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
Here again is my plan:
1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
comment box
2. Do it with one language.
3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

On 25 August 2013 21:44, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:

 If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate back
 the language data to the remote server.

 If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also
 could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just a
 complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a much
 more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.


please take a short time, to look how po files are defined and work. You
can already today download po files and work offline, whenever I do a
bigger translation its done offline with poedit.

rgds
jan I.



 Best wishes,

 Aivaras

 2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!



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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgl10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**orgl10n-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

And we dont need any changes in Pootles!


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

 The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
 Here again is my plan:
 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
 comment box
 2. Do it with one language.
 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation


Yes, indeed. It's both/and, not either/or.

Best regards,

Aivaras

2013.08.25 22:44, janI rašė:

On 25 August 2013 21:36, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:


That would be heaven, Jan!


but you do realize, that you still need pootle ?

Chances are that you miss one or more of the 73.000 strings we have in the
system, so you still need a pootle server (or equivalent) to show you the
strings you forgot.

While I think the UI method is good, it has a number of drawbacks.

- with pootle you can (and should) make a terminology file, that ensures
you translate e.g. cancel identical in all strings. I made a test for
fun, running trough our active languages, and in the best language cancel
was only translated to 2 different words (worst had 8 different words).

- Its hard to monitor progress (what did I already do, what have I left).

rgds
jan I.



Best regards,

Aivaras


2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė:


On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com
wrote:

  I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of

current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
paradigm of organizing and running the whole thing (a multi-project
platform).

A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient
once
it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.

No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may mediating
services
there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only
to
return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!

Best regards,

A.

2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea

ever !

But, again with letter B, AOO is a huge project.
The deployment for translation also take developers much time to
maintain
when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)

But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO
forums,
I will vote for you.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:

   Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing
the


Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!

As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The
objective
here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
translation.

  Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far

fetched
to make something like that.

Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
translation workflow = genLang), its possible to  write an application
that
edit a language pack.

Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.

However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus
on
other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
tools to help the translation workflow.

rgds
jan I.



  Best regards,

Aivaras


2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

   You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic
base on


the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.

Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
you
can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you
big
surprise.
Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing 
Google
inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but
you
have to get contact with them first).
Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using
API
from Google  Bing.

And about the speed stuff.
Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
xvideos for free.
But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3
unstranslated,
that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
have... in a single click of untranslated strings, and then, the
speed
after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.

Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.

So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
money.

At least, we havent used the type of upstream any more, this is
really a
disaster.
Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.

Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of cloud, this case, is good.
But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
leading
role.

From your email of sharing about foobar, this

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

That is exactly what I am doing. What I'm missing is UI context (as a 
carrier of additional semantics) for the proper translation of discrete 
expressions. That's what it is all about. As a side note, I started with 
Poedit and moved on to Virtaal.


A.

2013.08.25 22:49, janI rašė:

On 25 August 2013 21:44, Aivaras Stepukonis astepuko...@gmail.com wrote:


If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate back
the language data to the remote server.

If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also
could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just a
complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a much
more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.


please take a short time, to look how po files are defined and work. You
can already today download po files and work offline, whenever I do a
bigger translation its done offline with poedit.

rgds
jan I.



Best wishes,

Aivaras

2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!



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Re: One suggestion for easier translation

Sharing an idea, discuss it is a good way to cooperate.
We work for volunteer, and that's the beauty of it.
Sharing the idea about this become more interesting and with this, I can
even join in the process of Po Edit.
You shouldnt limit the idea exchanging about the translation progress.
That's the basic rule to apply, not only to translator, but also
maintainers and moderators.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:58 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote:

 On 25 August 2013 21:53, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

  the link, just the link to the comment box.
  the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict
 the
  link type.
  besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need
 that.
  we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
 

 If you use IRC  #dev.openoffice.org, you could exchange ideas much faster
 and not filling the inbox of all subscribers to this channel.

 just an idea.

 rgds
 jan I.

 Ps. I dont know if you have been told, but we have a series of introduction
 modules, which explains how we operate with mailing lists, IRC etc.


 
  On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote:
 
   On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:
  
And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
   
   no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as
 comments.
  
   rgds
   jan I.
  
   
   
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   
 The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
 Here again is my plan:
 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste
  to
 comment box
 2. Do it with one language.
 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.

Re: Help about word Environment

I also got stuck by this term. I translate it using the exact termilogy in
English.
But with the reply by Pedro Albuquerque palbuquerqu...@gmail.com

The term Environment is such as Images by Category right?
or Images by Sections?

Does anyone have a sreenshot about this?
This would help a lot for explaining it.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

As far as I'm concern, we don't need pictures that much. It could simple 
simple table of words retaining the order of words as they occur in the 
menu dropdown lists.


Say:

File



New



Text Document Cntr+N


Spreadsheet


Drawing


[etc.]

Open Cntr+O 

Recent Documents



My Document


This would allow me to quickly determine how to properly correlate the 
words File, New, and Text Document.


Best regards,

Aivaras

PS: I hope you can see the table.

2013.08.25 22:53, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

the link, just the link to the comment box.
the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict the
link type.
besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need that.
we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote:


On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:


And we dont need any changes in Pootles!


no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as comments.

rgds
jan I.



On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:


The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
Here again is my plan:
1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
comment box
2. Do it with one language.
3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.





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Re: All about Vietnamese Translation for Apache OpenOffice

On 25 August 2013 22:16, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Wonders about error on checking of Ending punctuation
 

 https://translate.apache.org/vi/aoo40/sc/source/ui/sidebar.po/translate/#unit=16362946

 I don't know about the reason why I got this issues.


look at
http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/pofilter_tests.html#endpunc

Bear in mind many of these checks are false positives, it might very well
be that your language uses less or more punctations than EN-US.

See the checks just as a question mark, not as an error.

rgds
jan I.



 I got about 100 of those notification from Pootle.

Re: All about Vietnamese Translation for Apache OpenOffice

ok, got it. thanks. I have always worried about this.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:22 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote:

 On 25 August 2013 22:16, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

  Subject: Wonders about error on checking of Ending punctuation
  
 
 
 https://translate.apache.org/vi/aoo40/sc/source/ui/sidebar.po/translate/#unit=16362946
 
  I don't know about the reason why I got this issues.
 

 look at

 http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/pofilter_tests.html#endpunc

 Bear in mind many of these checks are false positives, it might very well
 be that your language uses less or more punctations than EN-US.

 See the checks just as a question mark, not as an error.

 rgds
 jan I.



  I got about 100 of those notification from Pootle.

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

If it can be stated in the sequential fashion of A  B  C  D, that 
is more than enough to solve the issue of translating disconnected words.


A.

2013.08.25 23:20, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

This displaying of txt file for table is ok, but with just simple situation.
For example, we will get more complicated cases such as the inside
attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box.
Well, this will kill the idea of txt file as a table displaying.
So far, pictures is the shortest way.

The thing in here, that, Po edit doesnt accept this kind of action.
We can make a request about on going feature to the Po-Edit developer.
I translated Po-Edit in the early version but then I discontinued.



On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
astepuko...@gmail.comwrote:


As far as I'm concern, we don't need pictures that much. It could simple
simple table of words retaining the order of words as they occur in the
menu dropdown lists.

Say:

File



 New



 Text Document Cntr+N


 Spreadsheet


 Drawing


 [etc.]

 Open Cntr+O

 Recent Documents



 My Document


This would allow me to quickly determine how to properly correlate the
words File, New, and Text Document.

Best regards,

Aivaras

PS: I hope you can see the table.

2013.08.25 22:53, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:

  the link, just the link to the comment box.

the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict
the
link type.
besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need
that.
we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI j...@apache.org wrote:

  On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

  And we dont need any changes in Pootles!

  no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as

comments.

rgds
jan I.



On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh ppa...@gmail.com wrote:

  The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.

Here again is my plan:
1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
comment box
2. Do it with one language.
3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.




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Re: Help about word Environment

2013-08-25 Thread Pedro Albuquerque


Em 25/08/2013 21:12, Mr. Phan Anh escreveu:

I also got stuck by this term. I translate it using the exact termilogy in
English.
But with the reply by Pedro Albuquerque palbuquerqu...@gmail.com

The term Environment is such as Images by Category right?
or Images by Sections?
I think the gallery is organized in categories. Environment would be 
Ambiente, in Portuguese - PT.
Please check this screen shot and, if wrong, tell me: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hcavv68fl85hb9b/SCRSH.png

In this case the category would be Sounds.
Regards,
Pedro.

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Re: One suggestion for easier translation


Exactly, it's all there, it's just disconnected.

1) Online connection of AAO to Pootle,
2) In-place editing of menu descriptors in AAO,
3) Online communication of edit changes back to Pootle.
4) Done.

Best wishes,

Aivaras

2013.08.26 00:31, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:

Hello,
Is there chance to using what we have already on Pootle: location.

(Example:
Location:
ParaPropertyPanel.src#RID_SVXSTR_GRAPHICS_DESCRIPTION_0.string.text)

How? Maybe with some extension. When I want to translate I will open my
AOO. Than I will go on Pootle. If there is some problems with translating,
I will click on button (on Pootle), near from problematic word. That will
activate this extension, sendig to him this location. Extension will (if it
is possible) processed this string (location) in that manner that will run
action and open exactly place in  AOO in my computer, just that I can see
where is that location in UI... Even closer location will be fine (e.g.
attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box; it would be enough for me if
I can see desired dialog box).
If it is possible, we already have data base of all words/sentences with
written locations. It is already on Pootle.

Regards,
Vladisav Stevanović




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Re: Help about word Environment

2013-08-25 Thread Vladislav Stevanovic

Thanks for tips.
 I have also problem with word Textshapes.
BTW, how can I use this textshapes? As background, decorative detail...? I
tried to fill this shapes with words, but without success. So, if I must
translate this, I need to know for what purpose is it.



2013/8/25 Pedro Albuquerque palbuquerqu...@gmail.com

 Em 25/08/2013 21:12, Mr. Phan Anh escreveu:

  I also got stuck by this term. I translate it using the exact termilogy in
 English.
 But with the reply by Pedro Albuquerque palbuquerqu...@gmail.com

 The term Environment is such as Images by Category right?
 or Images by Sections?

 I think the gallery is organized in categories. Environment would be
 Ambiente, in Portuguese - PT.
 Please check this screen shot and, if wrong, tell me:
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/**hcavv68fl85hb9b/SCRSH.pnghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/hcavv68fl85hb9b/SCRSH.png
 In this case the category would be Sounds.

 Regards,
 Pedro.

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-- 
Srdačan pozdrav,
Stevanović Vladislav

Re: One suggestion for easier translation

2013-08-25 Thread Andrea Pescetti

Ricardo Berlasso wrote:

IMO, a way to tell where the string is located on the UI (the steps to
arrive there) will be more than enough... but I don't think that even such
thing will be easy to obtain.

What we do have available at the moment (I write this for the new
volunteers) is the so-called KeyID Build. The procedure is still
cumbersome and I hope to fix KeyID in time for the next snapshot, but
more or less this is what I would do to retrieve context:

1) I install a KeyID version. See a screenshot at
http://imagebin.org/268759
It looks incredibly ugly and must still be prepared for 4.0.1, but it
provides a unique ID for each string.

2) Imagine I have to translate the word Default:
https://translate.apache.org/it/aoo40/translate.html#unit=12866249
I want to find where it is.

3) On the left, I see in Location: STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARD

4) I open OpenGrok and search it in the kid file:

http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/search?q=STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARDdefs=refs=path=%2Faoo-trunk%2Fextras%2Fl10n%2Fsource%2Fkid%2Fhist=project=aoo-trunk

The result, if it doesn't crash your browser (huge file) contains the
key: 8+ddj

5) I can now find this in the KeyID build and know exactly what I am
translating.

Very tedious, but works. Of course, all the possible improvements you
are discussing here, especially screenshots or langpack editing, would
be awesome.

By the way, if we manage to load kid into Pootle after the SDF for it
has been updated, steps 3 and 4 can be omitted: translators will be able
to setup their environment so that they see both Deafult and
8+ddj|Default immediately, so they can open the KeyID version and
look it up.

Regards,
Andrea.

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Re: One suggestion for easier translation