Re: [lfs-support] fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
On Monday, February 8, 2021 2:59:47 AM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 21:49 -0600, paul rogers wrote: > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:54:42 PM CST Paul rogers wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:33:02 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 13:20 -0600, paul rogers wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 12:11:09 PM CST Pierre Labastie > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 11:26 -0600, paul rogers wrote: > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:26:29 AM CST Pierre Labastie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 01:18 -0600, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p...@kemascraft.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm working through the LFS 10.0 book. I got the error: > > > > > > > > > " > > > > > > > > > fatal > > > > > > > > > error: bits/c+ > > > > > > > > > +config.h: No such file or directory". The file exist. > > > > > > > > > I'm at > > > > > > > > > 8.6.1. Installation of DejaGNU. and ran the "make > > > > > > > > > check." > > > > > > > > > command. > > > > > > > > > I'm trying > > > > > > > > > to install with the "User Based Management " Package > > > > > > > > > Management > > > > > > > > > system. > > > > > > > > > Goggle didn't help much. i found a suggestion to > > > > > > > > > "export > > > > > > > > > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/ > > > > > > > > > usr/include/", but no luck. any help would be > > > > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to say anything without a more detailed error > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > (what > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > it say just above, what was the command that failed, not > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > ran, but the one that "make" ran, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH (or any include path) pointing > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > /usr/include > > > > > > > > is dangerous, because it changes the order of the include > > > > > > > > directories. > > > > > > > > This order is important when using the #include_next > > > > > > > > directive, > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > happens in several packages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pierre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is the output of make check 1>check.log > > > > > > > "Done. Now run 'make install'. > > > > > > > make unit > > > > > > > make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu- > > > > > > > 1.6.2' > > > > > > > depbase=`echo testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o | sed > > > > > > > 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`; > > > > > > > \ > > > > > > > g++ -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\" - > > > > > > > DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"dejagnu\" > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.6.2\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\ > > > > > > > 1.6.2\" - > > > > > > > DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"bug-deja...@gnu.org\" - > > > > > > > DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/ > > > > > > > software/dejagnu/\" -DPACKAGE=\"dejagnu\" - > > > > > > > DVERSION=\"1.6.2\" - > > > > > > > I. > > > > > > > -I. -g -g > > > > > > > -O2 -MT testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o -MD -MP -MF > > > > > > > $depbase.Tpo -c - >
Re: [lfs-support] fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:54:42 PM CST Paul rogers wrote: > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:33:02 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 13:20 -0600, paul rogers wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 12:11:09 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 11:26 -0600, paul rogers wrote: > > > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:26:29 AM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 01:18 -0600, p...@kemascraft.com wrote: > > > > > > > I'm working through the LFS 10.0 book. I got the error: " > > > > > > > fatal > > > > > > > error: bits/c+ > > > > > > > +config.h: No such file or directory". The file exist. I'm at > > > > > > > 8.6.1. Installation of DejaGNU. and ran the "make check." > > > > > > > command. > > > > > > > I'm trying > > > > > > > to install with the "User Based Management " Package > > > > > > > Management > > > > > > > system. > > > > > > > Goggle didn't help much. i found a suggestion to "export > > > > > > > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/ > > > > > > > usr/include/", but no luck. any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to say anything without a more detailed error message > > > > > > (what > > > > > > does > > > > > > it say just above, what was the command that failed, not the > > > > > > one > > > > > > you > > > > > > ran, but the one that "make" ran, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > Using CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH (or any include path) pointing to > > > > > > /usr/include > > > > > > is dangerous, because it changes the order of the include > > > > > > directories. > > > > > > This order is important when using the #include_next directive, > > > > > > which > > > > > > happens in several packages. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pierre > > > > > > > > > > this is the output of make check 1>check.log > > > > > "Done. Now run 'make install'. > > > > > make unit > > > > > make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2' > > > > > depbase=`echo testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o | sed > > > > > 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`; > > > > > \ > > > > > g++ -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"dejagnu\" > > > > > - > > > > > DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.6.2\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\ > > > > > 1.6.2\" - > > > > > DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"bug-deja...@gnu.org\" - > > > > > DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/ > > > > > software/dejagnu/\" -DPACKAGE=\"dejagnu\" -DVERSION=\"1.6.2\" - > > > > > I. > > > > > -I. -g -g > > > > > -O2 -MT testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c - > > > > > o > > > > > testsuite/ > > > > > libdejagnu/unit.o testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc &&\ > > > > > mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po > > > > > make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'" > > > > > > > > > > This is the output of make check 2>check.err > > > > > "In file included from testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc:21: > > > > > /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/iostream:38:10: fatal error: > > > > > bits/c++config.h: No such > > > > > file or directory > > > > > > > > > >38 | #include > > > > > > > > > > | ^~ > > > > > > > > > > compilation terminated. > > > > > make[1]: *** [Makefile:656: testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o] Error 1 > > > > > make: *** [Makefile:1202: check-am] Error 2" > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your time Pierre. > > > > > > > > Ok, so this is in an include, so no "include_next" wizardry. On my > > > > machine, this file is at /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-pc-linux- > > > > gnu/bits/c++config.h > > > > > > > > Do yo
Re: [lfs-support] fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:33:02 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote:
> On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 13:20 -0600, paul rogers wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 12:11:09 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 11:26 -0600, paul rogers wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:26:29 AM CST Pierre Labastie wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 01:18 -0600, p...@kemascraft.com wrote:
> > > > > > I'm working through the LFS 10.0 book. I got the error: "
> > > > > > fatal
> > > > > > error: bits/c+
> > > > > > +config.h: No such file or directory". The file exist. I'm at
> > > > > > 8.6.1. Installation of DejaGNU. and ran the "make check."
> > > > > > command.
> > > > > > I'm trying
> > > > > > to install with the "User Based Management " Package
> > > > > > Management
> > > > > > system.
> > > > > > Goggle didn't help much. i found a suggestion to "export
> > > > > > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/
> > > > > > usr/include/", but no luck. any help would be appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hard to say anything without a more detailed error message
> > > > > (what
> > > > > does
> > > > > it say just above, what was the command that failed, not the
> > > > > one
> > > > > you
> > > > > ran, but the one that "make" ran, etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Using CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH (or any include path) pointing to
> > > > > /usr/include
> > > > > is dangerous, because it changes the order of the include
> > > > > directories.
> > > > > This order is important when using the #include_next directive,
> > > > > which
> > > > > happens in several packages.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > > > this is the output of make check 1>check.log
> > > > "Done. Now run 'make install'.
> > > > make unit
> > > > make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'
> > > > depbase=`echo testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o | sed
> > > > 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;
> > > > \
> > > > g++ -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"dejagnu\"
> > > > -
> > > > DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.6.2\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\
> > > > 1.6.2\" -
> > > > DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"bug-deja...@gnu.org\" -
> > > > DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/
> > > > software/dejagnu/\" -DPACKAGE=\"dejagnu\" -DVERSION=\"1.6.2\" -
> > > > I.
> > > > -I. -g -g
> > > > -O2 -MT testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -
> > > > o
> > > > testsuite/
> > > > libdejagnu/unit.o testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc &&\
> > > > mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
> > > > make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'"
> > > >
> > > > This is the output of make check 2>check.err
> > > > "In file included from testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc:21:
> > > > /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/iostream:38:10: fatal error:
> > > > bits/c++config.h: No such
> > > > file or directory
> > > >38 | #include
> > > > | ^~
> > > > compilation terminated.
> > > > make[1]: *** [Makefile:656: testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o] Error 1
> > > > make: *** [Makefile:1202: check-am] Error 2"
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your time Pierre.
> > >
> > > Ok, so this is in an include, so no "include_next" wizardry. On my
> > > machine, this file is at /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-pc-linux-
> > > gnu/bits/c++config.h
> > >
> > > Do you have it? Is it readable by the user that runs the dejagnu
> > > tests?
> > > What is the output of "echo main'(){}' | g++ -xc++ --verbose -"
> > > (the
> > > lines after "#include "..." search starts here)?
> > >
> > > I have:
> > > #include "..." search starts here:
> > > #include <...> search starts here:
> > > /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-
> > > gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0
> >
Re: [lfs-support] fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 12:11:09 PM CST Pierre Labastie wrote:
> On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 11:26 -0600, paul rogers wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:26:29 AM CST Pierre Labastie wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 01:18 -0600, p...@kemascraft.com wrote:
> > > > I'm working through the LFS 10.0 book. I got the error: " fatal
> > > > error: bits/c+
> > > > +config.h: No such file or directory". The file exist. I'm at
> > > > 8.6.1. Installation of DejaGNU. and ran the "make check."
> > > > command.
> > > > I'm trying
> > > > to install with the "User Based Management " Package Management
> > > > system.
> > > > Goggle didn't help much. i found a suggestion to "export
> > > > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/
> > > > usr/include/", but no luck. any help would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Hard to say anything without a more detailed error message (what
> > > does
> > > it say just above, what was the command that failed, not the one
> > > you
> > > ran, but the one that "make" ran, etc).
> > >
> > > Using CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH (or any include path) pointing to
> > > /usr/include
> > > is dangerous, because it changes the order of the include
> > > directories.
> > > This order is important when using the #include_next directive,
> > > which
> > > happens in several packages.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> >
> > this is the output of make check 1>check.log
> > "Done. Now run 'make install'.
> > make unit
> > make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'
> > depbase=`echo testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o | sed
> > 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`;
> > \
> > g++ -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"dejagnu\" -
> > DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.6.2\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\ 1.6.2\" -
> > DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"bug-deja...@gnu.org\" -
> > DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/
> > software/dejagnu/\" -DPACKAGE=\"dejagnu\" -DVERSION=\"1.6.2\" -I.
> > -I. -g -g
> > -O2 -MT testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o
> > testsuite/
> > libdejagnu/unit.o testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc &&\
> > mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po
> > make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'"
> >
> > This is the output of make check 2>check.err
> > "In file included from testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc:21:
> > /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/iostream:38:10: fatal error:
> > bits/c++config.h: No such
> > file or directory
> >38 | #include
> > | ^~
> > compilation terminated.
> > make[1]: *** [Makefile:656: testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o] Error 1
> > make: *** [Makefile:1202: check-am] Error 2"
> >
> > Thank you for your time Pierre.
>
> Ok, so this is in an include, so no "include_next" wizardry. On my
> machine, this file is at /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-pc-linux-
> gnu/bits/c++config.h
>
> Do you have it? Is it readable by the user that runs the dejagnu tests?
> What is the output of "echo main'(){}' | g++ -xc++ --verbose -" (the
> lines after "#include "..." search starts here)?
>
> I have:
> #include "..." search starts here:
> #include <...> search starts here:
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-
> gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-
> gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0/backward
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/include
> /usr/local/include
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/include-fixed
> /usr/include
> End of search list.
>
> Pierre
Your file /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bits/c++config.h
Mine is /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/x86_64-lfs-linux-gnu/bits/c++config.h
#include "..." search starts here:
#include <...> search starts here:
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/../../../../include/c++/10.2.0/
backward
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/include
/usr/local/include
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/10.2.0/include-fixed
/usr/include
So it looks like its looking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu instead of x86_64-lfs-
linux. so whats the best solution? Did i miss a command some where?
--
http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support
FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html
Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Do not top post on this list.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:26:29 AM CST Pierre Labastie wrote: > On Sun, 2021-02-07 at 01:18 -0600, p...@kemascraft.com wrote: > > I'm working through the LFS 10.0 book. I got the error: " fatal > > error: bits/c+ > > +config.h: No such file or directory". The file exist. I'm at > > 8.6.1. Installation of DejaGNU. and ran the "make check." command. > > I'm trying > > to install with the "User Based Management " Package Management > > system. > > Goggle didn't help much. i found a suggestion to "export > > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/ > > usr/include/", but no luck. any help would be appreciated. > > Hard to say anything without a more detailed error message (what does > it say just above, what was the command that failed, not the one you > ran, but the one that "make" ran, etc). > > Using CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH (or any include path) pointing to /usr/include > is dangerous, because it changes the order of the include directories. > This order is important when using the #include_next directive, which > happens in several packages. > > Pierre this is the output of make check 1>check.log "Done. Now run 'make install'. make unit make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2' depbase=`echo testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o | sed 's|[^/]*$|.deps/&|;s|\.o$||'`; \ g++ -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"dejagnu\" - DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.6.2\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU\ DejaGnu\ 1.6.2\" - DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"bug-deja...@gnu.org\" -DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/ software/dejagnu/\" -DPACKAGE=\"dejagnu\" -DVERSION=\"1.6.2\" -I.-I. -g -g -O2 -MT testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o -MD -MP -MF $depbase.Tpo -c -o testsuite/ libdejagnu/unit.o testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc &&\ mv -f $depbase.Tpo $depbase.Po make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/dejagnu/dejagnu-1.6.2'" This is the output of make check 2>check.err "In file included from testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.cc:21: /usr/include/c++/10.2.0/iostream:38:10: fatal error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory 38 | #include | ^~ compilation terminated. make[1]: *** [Makefile:656: testsuite/libdejagnu/unit.o] Error 1 make: *** [Makefile:1202: check-am] Error 2" Thank you for your time Pierre. -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Important software missing from LFS Basic System
> On 10/24/19 4:54 PM, Paul Rogers wrote: > >> Is there any reason LFS does not include WGET? > > I think so. wget is just the tip of an iceberg. I do/would not let ANY > > (B)LFS system have any network connection until it was suitably prepared, > > "armored-up". So IPTABLES would have to come first, then my firewall, > > neither of which are part of LFS. > > Problem with that is LFS does setup a network connection. No, it doesn't. In 7.5 it shows how to setup the common metwork configuration files. YOU have to decide if you want to do that at this time, even so, no problem there. There is no network connection unless and until YOU select the network drivers in the kernel build options, and there is no instruction for you to do so in 8.3. LFS doesn't setup a network connection, YOU do! Building an LFS system is educational, but isn't for newbies. You are expected to have experience, to be a qualified sysadmin knowing what is appropriate to do in building your own system. An experienced sysadmin may well not know how to do that step by step, and that's the educational experience the book provides. If you DON'T know what you're doing and why, and put an unprotected system on the internet, then you are responsible for, and deserve, everything that happens! Putting an unprotected system on the internet is not adviced by anyone, anywhere! Look at the tests that have been done for how many minutes an unprotected system survives before it is pwned. > > I spend the extra time before running the first things in Ch. 4 to plan out > > what I'm going to want, packages and versions, and make my build scripts. > > I download those immediately, while I'm protected by my host system. Then > > when I finish LFS, I begin BLFS with everything I need. Everything is > > stand-alone until I have about 20 packages installed. Generally far beyond. > > Still should have a convenient method to get all those to the host you > are building on. You did when you got the LFS packages, presumably with a well protected host, so what's the problem with getting the BLFS packages? BLFS provides wget lists to get them if you look at it before running off before being ready. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Important software missing from LFS Basic System
> Is there any reason LFS does not include WGET? I think so. wget is just the tip of an iceberg. I do/would not let ANY (B)LFS system have any network connection until it was suitably prepared, "armored-up". So IPTABLES would have to come first, then my firewall, neither of which are part of LFS. I spend the extra time before running the first things in Ch. 4 to plan out what I'm going to want, packages and versions, and make my build scripts. I download those immediately, while I'm protected by my host system. Then when I finish LFS, I begin BLFS with everything I need. Everything is stand-alone until I have about 20 packages installed. Generally far beyond. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Can You either send me the Link for knoppix 5.1.x that You used or is a > good link to a bootable source, or send me via github a copy of what > You have ?? That would boot knoppix on the 586.. I can, but I won't--tough love, Baby! Just to make sure it was still online I asked Google for "knoppix 5 iso" and it popped right up. Likewise I'm not going to try to teach you how to use Mint. Way above the purpose of this list, or the time I'm able to dedicate. You're going to have to have initiative to climb this mountain. We've all done it. It's up to you to get yourself to the top. I've helped quite enough. BTW, you've seen my Second Law in my tagline. My Third Law is: There is no such thing as teaching--there is only learning. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Yes, Linux Mint 5 did pass all of the requirements of Chapter 4, and > the fact that I like Linux Mint , was what made it so appealing to me, > for this project.. Why? The only advantage Mint has over any other distro is its desktop. For building LFS that is irrelevant, even something of a disadvantage! All the instructions in the book are bash commands. At best you'll be working in a terminal emulator, where you'll have X, the desktop, and the emulator stealing processor power and adding a possible source of interference, contamination and confusion. The closer you can get to "bare iron" the better off you'll be, out of X and at the bash command line. That means no "cut and paste". As I wrote before, I recommend doing all that "in preparation", making bash scripts for each package. I spend *weeks* doing that for both LFS and BLFS before building any package, even laying down the root directory tree. (There are 418 scripts in my build directory for this system. (I put a sequence number in each name to keep it straight which one comes next.)) After all, once you build LFS, you'll want to boot it to build all the BLFS packages in your pure, clean, uncontaminated LFS, and it'll be a long time before you'll have X! It's like being a cook in a Chinese restaurant--they spend hours preparing ingredients, *before* they blast flame at a wok, heat oil, dump in ingredients and stir like mad, cooking each dish in just a minute or so. When I have to go back and startover, which STILL can happen, it's *WAY* faster than cut and paste, and provides perfect documentation how the system was built--both great advantages! If you "like" Mint for building LFS, you've already started on the wrong foot. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Paul and everyone; > You may be blessed with a memory that would remember these things, Used to! But I'm a bit beyond my Biblically alloted "three score and ten", and the short-term memory is going. What they say is true! But as I suggested before, that's why pencils were invented! I'm not being hard on you gratuituously, it's based on my experience; as you wanted. Computers are nothing if not literal, so we must be up to that challenge. We must be precise, and controlled. > but, I feel good if I can remember just that I have it, I can then go > and find it, > which I did.. One thing I did when I bought my IMSAI kit, as we were trained to do getting my major in Chemistry, was buy a bound quadrille-ruled notebook to take notes in. I very much recommend it! > it wasn't or didn't have the boot information.. Maybe it wasn't a > bootable ISO Image file.. Possible, I suppose, depending on where you got it. I recommend searching for bootable CD. Or using the LFS Live-CD. > I wasn't trying to mix and match, but find something that would work on > the 586.. As I wrote, I've used Knoppix-5 successfully. > > You told me to first find what possible defects the drive has , then we > can see if Linux Mint would then work, ( but, if it couldn't I thought > since Slackware booted on the 586, that if I found a later version of > it, it would be a suitable substitute).. Generally, erroneous. That MAY work for closely related versions, but there's no way to know for sure. So you're much better off working with things that experience has shown do "play well together". > Yes, what I have in Linux Mint 5 meets all of the requirements for > building Linux From Scratch.. > > You also told me that I might not be able to use Linux Mint 5, because > it was too late of a version and would not work on the 586 code, Maybe.. If it passes the tests in Ch4, it may be worth a try. Check the kernel version. There is a point where at least a particular kernel version is required to build. I stopped at 2.6.17, beyong that too much changed that wasn't relevant, IMNSHO, to 586 kit. > > Which was another reason I was thinking of using it, if I could find a > later version than I have.. > > I have the LFS- LiveCD, on CD/DVD but, I was having trouble using it, > like I would with Mint, Maybe, because it was so much different that > what I am used to, I was having trouble making it do what was needed > done.. I understand, but am not persuaded. As when I quoted Euclid, "There is no royal road to geometry." Choosing what is easier is not always best. That LFS LiveCD is exactly what you'll be dealing with when you build, and have built, your LFS system. You'll need to use it effectively to turn that very Spartan system into something you can enjoy using. You'll need skills at the command line. My recent builds have over 400 extra packages! > P.P.S., > > Also, Before when I first was proposing to do a LFS on the 586, I > proposed to do it on the Dell, and You told me it wouldn't work, so I > said OK, BUT, THEN, when I still wanted to do LFS on the Dell, BUT, NOT > for the 586, You still thought I was going to use it on the 586, (or so > it would seem) but, I was only wanting to do it on the Dell at that > time for the Experience of making it all of the way thru the building > process of building a LFS system.. But, not for the 586, but, for > getting to know what I would be running into, so that when I did do a > 586 build, I would kind of know what I was doing / getting into.. What is the Dell, CPU/chipset, etc. That may or may not work because there is 20 years between the system you want to build and what it is built on. Many, many things have changed. I don't see the benefit of trying. The experiences might not be as parallel as you think. The amount of work certainly doubles. p.s. Can you be more parsimonious about what you quote as the relevant part you're responding to. It's difficult to follow your posts. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Paul, Thank You for Your Patience.. > > I Found the Disk, it took some time searching thru all of the CD/DVD's > that I have it is Knoppix 6.71.. I also found the manual for it.. That MIGHT work for building LFS-6.x, or might not. Run the checks from Ch. 4 of the book. > But, first, I will try and do as You have said.. Maybe I can find a > slackware version for kernel 2.6.xx.. You're not doing that. What I wrote was use the LFS- LiveCD or, failing that, Knoppix-5.x for your host. You wrote that you downloaded Knoppix-5, but didn't burn it properly, so it wouldn't boot. It WILL boot if you burn it properly, so stop what you're doing and learn how to burn an "image". You still don't understand the section in the book that instructs you to use exactly what's IN the book, not whatever you have or want. There are explicit and implicit dependencies. Interchangable parts is not a part of Linux systems, except in limited circumstances. Branching out on your own is called "Dependency Hell" for good reason. FBBG! You've been told this several times. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Paul, > > first, well-spotted that ext4 is inappropriate for such old kernels > - I had completely overlooked that. > > But a 2.6 kernel (if that is what that old knoppix version is > offering) should support ext3. A quick look at wikipedia (as > always, "it might be accurate, or else someone with an agenda might > have updated it") suggests that ext3 was mainlined in 2.4.15. ext2 will always work with this old kit. Afterwards it's trivial to upgrade to ext3, once everything is built, tested, backed-up, and stable. "One step at a time!" > Hi Paul and Everyone; > > I am sorry that I am upsetting You, but, I don't always remember when > everything came out, I know that the Kernel will be a 2.6 something.. It takes a great deal to anger me. My emotions are very well controlled. However, I've critiqued your apparent lack of certainty and clarity at least a couple times, maybe more, but it never seems to change. Who's going to suffer from it? Not me, but you will--my half-century of working with computers make me quite certain of that. >> 3) download and burn a Knoppix-5.x LIVE iso, > > > I can download that, somewhere I have a Knoppix Disk, but, I am not > sure what version it is, so I will Download it.. "Somewhere"? "not sure what version"? QED. If you're going to build LFS successfully you're going to haveto change how you work. > I have downloaded Knoppix 5.1.1, but I couldn't get it to boot, it says > no boot record.. You need an "image" file and you don't burn it as a file, as you do most things. There's a different process, much like "dd". > > BUT, while cleaning in my room, I found a four CD set of Slackware 4.0, > with a Kernel of 2.2.6.. If you can boot it and get a shell... > > Right now it is Checking and Formatting the Hard Drive on the 586, > running on the 586 > > File type is ext2 with 1K blocks and 1 inode per 1024 bytes.. > > I hope that this is about what You would be OK with for checking out > the Hard Drive.. Maybe. You used "mke2fs -c ..."? A "normal" mke2fs doesn't do a surface scan, and since that drive may be bad, you need every sector checked. > > Also, from what I can see (so far) this might work for my Host, or is > it too old of a Kernel to make this work.. What does the book say? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> I am going to put it on my windows, and reformat it like You said, I > had previously used Ext4 or something like that.. Let me be clear, "something like that" isn't going to cut it. Be precise, take notes. 1) format it and scan it on Windows if thats the only way you can, 2) put a CDR drive in the box, 3) download and burn a Knoppix-5.x LIVE iso, 4) IF Windows claims the drive is faultless, put the drive back in the K6 box, 5) boot Knoppix, 6) run the dd to wipe the drive, carefully noting any glitches, 7) repartition the drive with fdisk, 8) do NOT format it with ext4!, just ext2. You're making a 20 year-old system!!! Forget EVERYTHING that has happened since then. You're going to be using a 2.6 kernel, for crying out loud! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
Download an image of Knoppix-5.0.2 and burn it to a CD, then boot that to a shell on that K6. Then you'll have a shell to can test that drive with under Linux. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Hi All; Paul, Sorry about not being clear.. When Installing Linux Mint, > it is in Partition mode, goes on thru to about 73% of that process, and > (Like the other night) it stayed at 73% for over 2 and a half hours, Was there a spinner, aka "throbber", on the screen? What else was on the screen at the time and most recently? What did it say it was going to do before then? > not moving.. When I shut it off and went to bed..It says something like Something like? > "determining file structure".. Mostly when that happens I think of an I/O error on the drive that it keeps retrying and never gets a successful read. SO... 1) What is/was on the drive? Got enough free space? 2) Is it at least as large as Mint's system requirements say? 3) Is the drive surface error-free? 4) Find a drive initialization CD/packege either from the manufacturer or a generic package and do a surface scan. Even make it a slave drive on a Windows box, format it as one FAT-32 partition, which will make format do a surface scan, then scan it again. If all else fails, "dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/hda bs=4096" -- and that will get rid of the Windows junk on the drive. > Partition mode, sets up the Drive (I think formats the drive) You need to KNOW what it's doing! And like Ken says, I NEVER allow an installer to decide where to partition things and format any drive! > copies the files to the Drive after copying them they are Extracted and > Mint is set up, so that the full system is there and is bootable..So > the problem is early in the Process, when setting up the drive possibly From the way you describe things, all that's extraneous, what WOULD happed IF you hadn't gotten stuck first. > formatting it and Partitioning it (getting it ready for the files to be > copied).. Making the 'Root' Partition and the 'swap' Partition.. > Somewhere in that process it stops working.. I did have a thought this WHERE? That is critical! > morning while mowing my friends lawn .. That If I can sort of do a > compare on the Linux Mint Version 5 and the Individual programs that > are in the List for Linux Mint ver 5, and make a Map of where the > different parts of what I have on the list is located in the Mint > program.. Maybe I could find the Part that has the Partition program > and see if that is or has a 'bug' or error in it.. THANK YOU Marty Waste of time. You don't know there IS a bug in the partition program, and I'd say chances of that, IF you don't have a bad CD copy, is zero. > ... > Far be it from me to attempt to guess what Paul will suggest, but on > the (thankfully rare ;) occasions when I've had to install a distro > I always avoid letting it do any automatic partitioning : I select > whatever it's 'expert' mode is called, create partitions to my > specification (at a minimum /boot, / for the system I hope to > install, swap if needed, and unpartitioned space in which I will > later create partitions for use by LFS). Yep, me too. You're doin' fine. > period were a lot smaller, which I think is why Paul suggested using > something really old. And they have drivers specific to that era of hardware, without acquiring a lot of useless cruft for stuff off in its future. > > Some distros might let you open a shell on another tty. If that is > available, you could try 'df' and 'top' (they might not be > available) to see what is going on. "fdisk -l" > > One possibility might be that there is a problem with the CD, either > the drive or the CD itself. I assume you burned it on a CDR, from I told him to get rid of the DVD he put in the box and go back to a contemporaneous CDR. > ... > P.S., I was partially wrong in what I said, Mint first loads itself > into Memory, probably a small version of the whole thing.. How much does it load into memory? Does it let you have a shell? > > Is there any way to Load up a later Mint and use 'Debug' and Load the > DVD with Mint 5, and have it load Mint 5 with debug ?? NO!!! Deal with the problems you have first. If you keep running around here and there you'll get yourself lost and confused. Confusion must be combatted at all costs!!! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
>> In my experience, any time a system misbehaves, that's a bug! You need >> to chase that sucker down until you know exactly what happened and why! >> Then fix it and KNOW you fixed it! > > How would I go about doing that, what steps do I take ?? That is "debugging", and I don't know if it CAN be trained. I've observed that some people are good at building detailed mental constructs from hypotheticals and making judgements and comparisons with and about them, and others need to have a reality presented to them. It's sort of the difference between an engineer and a mechanic. I think it's a talent. > > Is there any tests that I could Run on Mint and see what fails ?? Your description is still not precise enough for me to get an idea of what's going wrong. Something as simple and direct as telling me what is going on at the time it fails, e.g. runing some particular program, what made you decide it was "stuck". "Stuck" isn't an operative word. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Paul, I got the Eleventh Edition in PDF format, online.. I'm curious, how much coverage does it have on the Pentium-3 Coppermines and the 810/815 chipsets? My 10th basically quits with the Pentium-II. I typically skip a generation or two with what I support, and I did not like the Pentium-4. Nor did Intel! After the P4 they made the famous "left-turn" and went back to the Pentium-3 Mobile core for all further development. I have a Northwood, but I never run it. > I had to switch to Ubuntu 5.10, as my Linux Mint would get partially > thru the partition and then get stuck, where as the Ubuntu made it all > the way thru on the Hard Disk and is bootable now.. Mint isn't much more than a respin of Ubuntu, there's not much different between them except for cosmetics. So you shouldn't have experienced any significant difference. Just what do you mean by "getting stuck partially thru the partition"? mke2fs? Extracting? It's not clear. In my experience, any time a system misbehaves, that's a bug! You need to chase that sucker down until you know exactly what happened and why! Then fix it and KNOW you fixed it! If you don't, it's not going to disappear, and sooner or later it'll come back and bite you in the butt at the worst time! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> I have some reading to do, as to what makes up a 586 system.. > Do You have any suggestions ?? A contemporaneous "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" book of the era.I have Scott Mueller's 10th Edition for the old stuff. > What did You do to get all of the Experience that You have on these > older systems, (I know that not that long ago they were not considered > as being old), that You can pass on ?? My professional career was in programming and mainframe data centers systems management since the late '60's. Since I hand-built and kept upgrading my IMSAI in '76, I developed "skills": soldering, circuit reading, a smattering of electronics, and not being able to afford to keep up with the breakneck pace, I scrounged and salvaged old computers and made them work. Unfortunately it's not transferable, and as Euclid told Ptolemy, "There is no royal road to geometry." Learn by doing. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
It's neither necessary nor desired to quote all of the post you're responding to. > then there is ALI M1543C XB5W020D, That's the South Bridge and integrated Super I/O chip for the Aladdin IV chipset. It's roughly equivalent to an Intel TX chipset. Since it's not a top of the line MoBo, it's only going to be able to cache 64MB of RAM, any more than that will be uncached, meaning everything will be horribly slow because the kernel won't be cached. It won't be able to handle newer USB devices, only contemporaneous stuff of the day. And you're really better off making sure the BIOS sees what it knows how to handle, i.e. with a CD drive in it. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> I Don't know what FBBG is.. "Follow Book, Book Good!" > I sent a Picture of the motherboard and it looks like it got Rejected a > being too large of a file.. Not a good idea, not necessary. Mark 1 eyeball is best. > > I found out from the Bios that the Motherboard is a Sunlogix.. > The Bios number is -- > 62-1126-001437-0010--071595-ArtX-M587LMR-0 > So far I can't seem to get any information on them about this board.. I have TH99 database, but it has nothing of Sunlogix. Doesn't mean it's not good though. But I'd examine all the large caps and look for bulging tops. What's the CPU and chipset? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
1) Pick ANY contemporaneous, i.e. late '90's, Linux distro for a host, and if it passes the checks in Ch4, it'll do! Get on with it. 2) Make script files for building each package from the book. It'll save you time in the long run in the liklihood you'll have to start over. 3) FBBG! Build the packages in the book. Don't get creative. 4) What identifications are in the board's silkscreen? It may be good to know what it really is, especially if it's an off-brand. I may be able to come up with an id. p.s. I still have my IMSAI! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
to write a DVD. You'll get underruns. There's a reason DVD's use 80-pin cables. 586 Motherboards only support 40-pin cables. Remember what I wrote about mindsets! > So to get the LFS Book for 6.XX can I use FireFox 2.0.0.16 to download > the Book OR do I need to copy it to a USB Stick and copy and Paste that > to the 586 ?? How? Does your 586 support USB? Which version, if any? Do you have a USB version 1 stick? I think you should be spending your time reading about the history of the 586 era! Doesn't seem you lived through it, and think it was like it is today. Not even close! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
> Secondly, for others and not so much for You..
> I got GCC and (so far) Glibc to compile, I still need to do the check
> to make sure it built it correctly..
I'm assuming you're still on your new DELL? I'm afraid that test will lie to
you. Because your CPU has SSSEx instructions, the test will run on the Dell,
but that code cannot run on an i586.
In recent times I tried to build both LFS-6.1.1 for an i586 and LFS-7.2 for an
i686, on an i7 and Core2 Duo. The promise of building on a 4-core
hyperthreaded 2+ GHz system is a cruel illusion. In the end, I built both on
the target CPU.
Yes, it is supposedly possible to have GMP build generic code. I've tried, and
it just wasted more time than it would have taken to build from scratch on the
target CPU.
> That fixed my problem.. It just checked out..
On your i586, or the Dell? How do you know it "checked out"?
> Now, Paul what do I after I have my 586 out, it has a DVD , no floppy,
> but it could be added, I have Linux Mint all the way back to 3.X except
> for 4.X up to Linux Mint 18.3..
Add the floppy. Go back to a CDROM drive, I doubt an i586 can keep up with a
DVD. Install one of your 32-bit Mints for a host system, or use the LFS Live
CD. Then start installing LFS-6.{1-3} from scratch, i.e. Ch 4, on the i586.
(Some bits of what you built on the Dell might be usable, but IMO it's just not
worth the waste of time getting to the end and seeing it crash with an illegal
instruction and THEN starting over.)
> I have tried Linux Mint and the only versions that will talk to the
> Internet are 17.1 up to 18.3..
As I said, I run (B)LFS-7.2 on a 1GHz Pentium-iii Coppermine every day and it
chokes on modern websites with lots of images and javascript. I get a lot of
Google javascripts that stop responding and timeout. Don't expect an i586 and
the Firefox-2.0.0.16 to do even that well. A third generation Pentium-MMX runs
at 233MHz, a tenth or less of modern CPUs. Also, LFS-6.1 is going to be
running a 2.6 kernel, more ot less (2.6.17 on mine), and you should think twice
about allowing that on the internet without armed guards.
> I have no idea about building foxfire and how to do that,
Follow the BLFS instructions.
> I will get a little further on my Dell Machine and then put it away,
> and get out the 586..
Don't bother! You have to throw away anything you built on the DELL.
If you're going to keep at this you'll need to put your mindset back to the
late 90's and forget everything that happened in the last 20 years! (Except
how many critical security flaws have been found in the kernel and other FOSS
since, e.g. ShellShock, HeartBleed, and Ghost.) You'll be making a 20 year-old
system on 20 year-old hardware, about equivalent to driving a horse and buggy
on an Interstate Highway in a war zone! But don't let that stop you.
--
Paul Rogers
paulgrog...@fastmail.fm
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)
--
http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support
FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html
Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Do not top post on this list.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Gcc Compiling Problem in 32 bit
First some corrections, then suggestions from one who knows. > Is there a reason to build "Linux From Scratch 7.10 pdf" Yes, he's going to run it on a 586! > Version 9.0 stable is out now, also using a PDF is not good, the html > version is the 1 to use Not for a 20 year-old CPU, chipset, and hardware of the time. You do remember all i386 support has been stripped from the kernel, don't you? He's doing the right thing, almost. > > Will LFS ver 9.0 produce 32 bit files like the earlier versions, I > > thought that it might only have 64 bit.. > > > > I think 9.0 still runs on 32 bit machine (I've built it recently on a 32 > bit VM, apparently with no problems up to now). He's going to have severe headaches with GMP! > I didn't notice you had been using 7.10 from about 3 years ago > (trying to read the long single lines from your webmail is hard). > And we've forgotten all the specifics of that old release. Not exactly! I still maintain it. Run it on a Coppermine daily. 7.7 even! ;) But I suggest he fall back to LFS-6.1. That's what I used for my 586 build. 7.x would be a real "heavy lift" for a 586. Now, here's what to do. Stop trying to build it on your modern DELL system! As mentioned, GMP will compile code using SSSE-x instructions and they'll blow up on your 586. Nothing will run. Persuading GMP it's wrong isn't easy or certain. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, went back to build on the sort of system it's intended to run on. Use the 586! Find an old compatible distro for your host--maybe get the old LFS-LIVE CD. Yes, the 586 will work hard to do it. Compiling X will be a 12hrs overnight job! Firefox, 10hrs more or less, will have to be v2.0.0.16 at best, and it won't be able to handle modern websites, but you knew that. But when you're done it will run. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Moving working LFS to a different computer
> LFS is an amazing project, and there's so, so, so much I don't know. I got > through my first build by blindly following the recipes, and not taking the > time to read up on what I was building. That's par for the course the first time around. Then we learn what we *should have done*. ;-) > That's why I've started over - trying to learn and read more, taking my > time. So this time make build scripts. If you've got to do it twice, what the chance you'll be doing it again? So, as I said, don't wing-it everytime. > boot Manjaro - I built it without being in the chroot environment. I'm > embarrassed to admit such a stupid mistake, but I did it. "Experience is directly proportional to the amount of computer time wasted." "You're going to make a mistake; guaranteed. Plan for it!" > I've got plenty of questions, but they're OT for this email chain... "Questions are more valuable than answers." ___8<... > > But you have to start with winging it, and eventually notice where Sure, once! > *and* remember the symptoms when they recur. I'm not good at that Remember what? ;-) > > What really made me spend the time replying is > '/usr/src/linux-X.Y.Z'. Next thing, you'll be telling me you build > the kernel as root (yeah, ok, the book does for the first build, and I do. And I never build sudo! It's going to protect me from what? > I admit I build most packages as root). But /usr/src ? Next thing > you'll be advocating /usr/local for BLFS. Oh, wait, you do, don't > you. ;-) I regard LFS as THE system, spartan and barely usable though it be. Everything after that is all local stuff, even if it includes ripping out all the LFS SysV boot scripts from rc on down, and replacing everything with my own redesign. > > My point is that we each, if we continue to use LFS/BLFS, need to > find methods which suit us as individuals. What works for one of us > can be regarded as horrendous by another. Sure, but sometimes one sees something that prompts, "Oh, I never thought of that before! Maybe I can use that." > I'm told that even intel (Skylake and later) now need firmware for Euew! > KMS. On modern hardware (my ryzen laptop is 1920x1080 on a screen > with a 40cm diagonal) the default fonts can be unreadable in many > cases. The kernel has a 12x22 framebuffer font available, my Have you tried telling the framebuffer driver what resolution to use? I admit to being somewhat naive about framebuffers. I've tried them a few times, all on my desktops, and missed CTL-SHIFT-+ much more than any supposed advantage, so now just use VESA drivers. > I just turned 50 and have learned what I know by hacking and poking at > things - but I’ve clearly missed some fundamental material. I would > appreciate one last burst of advice. I think you should be looking for a textbook for a system administration class, not one of the far more plentiful handbook things. Also, look for books about "best practices". -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Moving working LFS to a different computer
> kernel driver was missing. A little more investigating and I found that I'd > mis-GRUBbed something and had booted Manjaro using my LFS kernel. Aside > from the missing wifi module, at least I know I'd recompiled the kernel > properly - I just put it in the wrong place. Go sit under a tree, spend some "skull sweat" and imagine a reliable process of how you can manage a dual- or triple-boot environment, and then make up scripts that will do it properly in each system. Don't try to "wing-it" everytime! [Framebuffers] > > I don't know/don't remember. But I'll look into. Another nice tip. Although > I really do want to get my mad-scientist experiments off my so-called > "work" computer. What did you set in this last kernel build? Look in /usr/src/linux-X.Y.Z/.config. My scripts, mentioned above, get me through the kernel configuration bit, then ask me if I've changed my mind, then quit before compiling if I answer "y". So I can check .config the regular way. ;-) > > It's also got to be legible on a wide variety of screens! :-) For this kind of kernel you want to use "bog-standard" VGA drivers, no extra nothing! You DO NOT want to boot into the GUI so screen resolution is irrelevant, this is for rescue operations! All you want is the command line and access to the base system standalone. If you can do that then anything is possible. If you can't, nothing is possible. > > Oh, and if the machine's CPU is not the same as, or a superset of, > the machine on which you built LFS, you may need to rebuild gmp if > you didn't use the configfsf scripts. And although I'm a fan of > using '-march=native' in my CFLAGS, that is fairly catastrophic for > trying to build for a different micro-architecture :) > > ĸen Ken's right, GMP is going to be a PITA. But RTFM, there are ways to build, i.e. crosscompile, it for a lowest common denominator CPU. I always do, because the marginal performance improvements are worth less to me than the ability to use any hardware in an emergency! > > This might be part of my problem. My initial LFS build was constructed on a > Core i7. The machine I want to continue LFS'ing on is only a Core i5. I Been there, done that. The problem is, sometimes you might get away with it, sometimes not. IMO it's not worth the hassle of an optimized GMP. But then my RoT is: I'm not interested in any "better performace" trick or upgrade unless it's nearly 100% faster, and that hardly happens these days. Back when I started with a 2MHz 8080, it was easy! > Regardless, this (older, i5) machine has a fresh Manjaro install and I'm > starting LFS over, using the development branch this time around. I know > the risks and hazards and further complications that may entail, but > breaking and fixing things is my definition of "fun". NOOoo! You don't break and fix things until you've got it working. > important question is: when I get this version booting and running, do I > get to be Counted a second time? :-) Also NO. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Moving working LFS to a different computer
Basically, I endorse the advice so far, and add... A) Are you using framebuffer drivers? In which case you might find of use the kernel boot parameter VGA=XXX, where XXX is a number in the 700-800's that specifies a screen size. B) One's first idea is to build a kernel that supports the running system entirely. OK, but that's not all. One should make a minimalist kernel that supports the most generic CPU, a wider variety of disk drivers, just a standard VGA screen, none of the fancy graphics, no sound, no networking, PS/2 and HID keyboard/mouse. The idea is "boot on anything and everything". Chances are that would be a lot more difficult on the day you might need it, than it is now! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Giving up on LFS
> For those who know how to do that, the result is generally better. It's > easier today though. It's not like you need a soldering iron any more. > > http://oldcomputers.net/heathkit-h89.html :) > >-- Bruce IMSAI! Front panel, switches and lights! Boot by depositing binary code into RAM with the front panel switches a byte at a time. Totally 1st generation computing. And I still have it. ;-) (Alas :-( , the floating-gate charge has certainly leaked off the 2708's & 2716's by now.) I've always been very grateful that I was at the right time to have recapitulated essentially the whole history of computing from 1st generation on up, either professionally or personally. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] gcc not found, beginning of ch6, LFS-8.3
> > May I suggest something like this: > > > > #!/bin/bash -e > > ... > > (make 2>&1 | tee log.make && exit $PIPESTATUS) && > > ... > > I use a lot 2>&1 | tee in other work. First time I see it with > $PIPESTATUS though, and the whole () with &&. Interesting and > certainly very useful. I will try it, but perhaps not in building this > since I wonder, if make has an error, it will exit. It's only in the > case make is successful, but the input to make is not right or, what > make did for other reasons is not right. Is it ? You seem to say that > there can be errors and make will continue nevertheless, can this be > the case ? Make may continue if it has a minor error, and of course, just because make finishes doesn't mean the program is right. Nevertheless, if make encounters a serious error, you really want it to stop there, before things spin into indecipherable chaos. (Speaking of which, if you're running parallel jobs the log is likely to be confusing enough. Sometimes one must startover with -j1.) The parens run the make|tee in a function-like subshell and the exit $PIPESTATUS sets the return code if any part of the pipe produces a return code, not just the last, i.e. the make, which is what we want. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] gcc not found, beginning of ch6, LFS-8.3
> And each
> command is followed by an error check and if there's an error, the
> script will bail out. It checks the error code with this:
>
> function check4errors()
> {
> if [ $? != 0 ]
> then
> [ "$1" != "" ] && logError $1 exit 1
> fi
> }
>
> It simply logs by writing to a file.
May I suggest something like this:
#!/bin/bash -e
...
(make 2>&1 | tee log.make && exit $PIPESTATUS) &&
...
This way you'll see thing whipping past as long as there are no return codes,
but if something does error out, the script will stop and you'll have a file of
the console log to dissect. PIPESTATUS isn't very well known but works a charm
in this application. I've been doing this for 15 years. ;-)
--
Paul Rogers
paulgrog...@fastmail.fm
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)
--
http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support
FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html
Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Do not top post on this list.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] VGA resolution
> The problem is that Tux doesn't appear at boot time! (-: I mean that the > resolution is smaller than expected (lets say bigger font size...). In fact > you > can't see the usual change of resolution shortly before Tux pops in. I rarely see it myself and that's OK because I don't much care for non-VESA, but it does depend on frame buffers, boot parameters, which can include kernel mode setting and vga= or video=, and just which driver is in control. IME it takes a bit of fiddling to get it, and after you've seen it once or twice, who cares? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] What the heck do I have to do to get this to JUST WORK?!?!
> Getting rather frustrated as I've been trying to build my first LFS > system for over a week now! > > The instructions in the book are pretty straight forward, yet following > them to the letter has gotten me absolutely nowhere after countless retries. Kent, that's about par for the course. It happens to us all, even if we've been down the road before. Don't let the frustrations get the better of you, just prepare you to catch yourself before mistakes compound. The instructions in the book do work, and yes, one must follow them pretty much as given. I weasel-word that because I _ALWAYS_ "tee" a log file off of every CMMI and that's not in the book (yet). I consider going back to the beginning, wiping it all away, and starting over from scratch, once, to be expected. Twice, just an annoyance. And my first build was 4.1! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] LFS Stable and gawk
> I am going to go through this from scratch again - one last time :/ > (perhaps). Yeah, like none of us have ever done THAT! ;-) For which reason, IMO it's definitely worth the time to make some well thought-out scripts from embedding the book's instructions, also embedding your package management of choice. And that includes a script "startover". ;-) They give you an excellent point of departure for your next version. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Minimum Hardware configuration for a Custom PC
> >> I use allways 12GB disk space for partitions to build LFS in - so > >> nearly all available disks nowadays should be fine. A 32GB mSATA is a > >> bit small, but every size above should be fine also. But that depends > >> on what else you want to have on disk beside LFS. > >> > > > > To quote Marvin: It amazes me how you manage to live in anything that > > small. My version development goes through several phases, and what I build is by common standards quite modest. For building I generally use a 20GB partition because of all the detritus. During "refinement" and for daily use generally 15 is sufficient. I have a few 1st & 2nd generation i7's I can use as "compiling engines" for building, but my "daily driver" so to speak is a Core2-Duo Conroe, and I have no complaints save for the piggish Libre Office. If I did I'd be using one of the i7's but I'm not. > > > > And anyone using LFS long-term really needs at least two systems > > (current and next), plus (of course) /home, space for sources, and > > somewhere to build. Yes, every drive/box has at least two functioning systems on it. I don't use a separate /home. But every system has its set of build scripts, source tarballs, and as-built package-managed binaries (making essentially two copies of the system) all the time. At the drop of a hat I can reload any package I question, or compare the original binaries to what's there now. When I clone an as-built system I have the option of not loading all that stuff, but with the size of drives in the last several years I haven't needed to except for testing to make sure that option works. Generally I fdisk a drive with one "large" last partition as a "storage heap" shared but not "used" by all the others. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] build TAR fails miserably
> I'm sorry to bother you with a question like this but I have no other > place to ask, nobody has answered to this. ___8<... > SHOULD be compatible. I'm so tired and in frustration. Michele, I don't have a solution your compilation issue, but I do have a meta-solution. Break away from beating your head against the wall here--it's an impediment to the solution. Do something nice for a while, until you can come back to this with a fresher perspective. It's rarely a waste of time. "Sleep on it" if possible. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Boot freezes
Re: the entropy issue - It's always a good idea to "dd" the host's random number seed to a new system to start off with. Storage locations may vary. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Adjusting tool chain.
> > In any event, don't get old! > It's better than the alternative. > >-- Bruce There's a difference between "getting old" and ageing. Just don't forget: "If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." (Mickey Mantle) And watch for side effects of all meds! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Adjusting tool chain
It's bollixed. (But I *seem* to be out of my "Hall of Mirrors".) ## from config.log ## ... configure:3280: $? = 0 configure:3282: gcc -v &5 Reading specs from /tools/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.4.3/specs Target: i686-pc-linux-gnu<-OOPS! Configured with: ../gcc-4.4.3/configure --prefix=/tools --with-local-prefix=/tools --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-libstdcxx-pch --disable-multilib --disable-bootstrap ... ## from console ## ... make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/gcc-build/gcc' Checking multilib configuration for libgcc... mkdir -p -- i586-pc-linux-gnu/libgcc Configuring in i586-pc-linux-gnu/libgcc configure: creating cache ./config.cache checking for --enable-version-specific-runtime-libs... no checking for a BSD-compatible install... /tools/bin/install -c checking for gawk... gawk checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu < checking host system type... i586-pc-linux-gnu checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-ar... i586-pc-linux-gnu-ar checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-lipo... i586-pc-linux-gnu-lipo checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-nm... /usr/local/src/gcc-build/./gcc/nm checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-ranlib... i586-pc-linux-gnu-ranlib checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-strip... i586-pc-linux-gnu-strip checking whether ln -s works... yes checking for i586-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... /usr/local/src/gcc-build/./gcc/xgcc -B/usr/local/src/gcc-build/./gcc/ -B/usr/i586-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ -B/usr/i586-pc-linux-gnu/lib/ -isystem /usr/i586-pc-linux-gnu/include -isystem /usr/i586-pc-linux-gnu/sys-include checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: in `/usr/local/src/gcc-build/i586-pc-linux-gnu/libgcc': configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile See `config.log' for more details. make[1]: *** [configure-target-libgcc] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/gcc-build' make: *** [all] Error 2 [11:15 gcc-build]# ## I think maybe I've "got the scent" now. Got an idea I'm using the wrong host system for the set of --TARGETs I'm using & used in the past. Yes, I do have an old 586 system on this i7! I think I should fix the targets. Thanks! Sometimes it helps to have someone to talk one out of confusion. TTYL. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Adjusting tool chain.
> Paul, Thanks, Ken. It occurred to me perhaps some medication is making it worse. (In any event, don't get old! It's a bitch watching one's capabilities slip away.) I don't take much, but I had taken some benadryl once last weekend. Never noticed an effect like that before. > > I think the key point of what you are doing is cross-compiling from > i686 to i586, and most of us have no recent experience of that. Perhaps not, but we all always build a "contaminated" Stage-1 in Ch5 and in Stage-2 have to adjust the toolchain per Ch6. I can't believe that bit changes much. > Specifically, for us host and target are the same. Yeah, but as you note, building (B)LFS on my i7 for whatever makes it bearable! 233MHz vs 2.93GHz x 8 cores? > > I remember you mentioning about compiling i686 on a newer i686 for > an older one, perhaps something will jog your memory about what you > have done in the past. I scriptify it all, and am doing this using the same (B)LFS-6.6 code, but made for an i686 on my i7. So the scripts are right there on my host. I certainly try to fix any recordable glitches in the scripts along the way--part of my process is to make my systems rebuildable like this. I'm not off by much. I'm not certain I *am* off, just appears that way and I've learned to not overlook warnings. > > My first suggestion is "Try carrying on, see whether the resulting > system builds for i586, and if necessary try installing it to see if OK, but I'll stop if I get an i686 triplet for gcc in Ch6! That can't be right. > it boots". I was almost going to suggest copying it over to the > i586 and chrooting, but I can just about recall how slow those were. ;-] It has a LFS-6.1 on it. Why not bump it up a bit? This *should have been* a piece of cake! > > Failing that, I vaguely remember there was a uname hack for this > sort of thing. Ummm, no, I don't think so. FBBG! That should certainly not be necessary. > but those are both "antique" and who knows if any of it is still > relevant (apart, obviously, from setting -march). I have -CTARGET set in all the configures already. > ĸen Thanks, again. I suppose I'll wait a couple days for the meds to certainly have worn off. Besides, we're crushing grapes tomorrow! Matter of priorities. ;-) -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Adjusting tool chain.
I'm trying to cross-rebuild one of my older versions of LFS (6.6) for an old i586 box. I'm in trouble. I'm 74+ and this may be my "swan song"--not so long ago I could do this, but now I seem to be stuck in a "Hall of Mirrors" I used to know my way through, unable to "keep all the balls in the air", to mix metaphors. Anyway, when I finish Ch 5, as becomes apparent when I adjust the toolchain in Ch 6, the /tools/ld SEARCH_DIR has /tools/[host-triplet]. I think it should be the target-triplet. I don't think it would be a problem in the final install, because I don't expect anything that host-triplet to be findable. I've tried starting over, checking everything is as in the book, but it's still the same, and I don't want to waste my time and effort building a broken Ch6! I just did start over and stopped at the end of Ch5 this time. Any idea what I could've done wrong, or whether it IS safe to proceed? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Terms of Intel's EULA for Spectre patches
License Restictions: "... or (v) publish or provide any Software benchmark or comparison test results." -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Meltdown mitigation in 32-bit kernel-4.4 LTS
I keep a functional 32-bit LFS-7.7 system available as an emergency backup. I have updated the kernel from 3.19 to the 4.4 LTS version and latest patches, 4.4.147. I have also updated to gcc-7.3 for kernel compilations. 32-bit compilations still do not have Page Table Isolation that I can find. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Running the mpfr-4.0.1 Tests
> You are correct.
>
> "echo "int main(){}" > dummy.c &&
> cc dummy.c -Wl,--verbose | grep SEARCH | sed 's/; /\n/g' "
> still points to /tools/lib.
>
> I saved a copy of /tools and /sources before starting chapter 6.
>
> Can I exit chroot and delete certain folders, stay in chroot and delete
> certain folders, stay in chroot and delete all the contents or is there
> another option?
> I should be able to restart Chapter 6, right?
Please stop top-posting, not having seen the relevant reference annoys people
here. I know, my email client wants to do that too, but it's really easy
enough to reposition.
Now then, it would seem that with prudent backups along the way one should be
able to "surgically" remove what's wrong and pick it up at just the right spot.
Been there done that, as have we all, but it's a waste of time. You'll be
miles ahead by blowing it all away, restoring just the /tools backup, if you
got it all and at the right place, and starting Ch6 from scratch. This time
you might consider putting all the book's instructions for each package in a
script you can quickly and rerun error-free. That is a time saver.
--
Paul Rogers
paulgrog...@fastmail.fm
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)
--
http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support
FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html
Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Do not top post on this list.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] reset video hardware settings
> Is it possible to force-set the video mode after boot? Is this a > separate package with some CLI or is this not possible at all? Depending on the driver you're using, it may be trivial. You can set it by a kernel boot parameter in the GRUB stanza, e.g. video=1024x768 or whatever. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] compile 4.17.7 32 bit
> Queued in the tip tree this week, should be in 4.19 and then will > presumably get backported to the still-maintained kernels. > > But it is expected to have a big performance impact on the old > machines without a later feature (PCID : Process Context Identifier, > according to wikipedia that was introduced with Westmere, the 32nm > die-shrink of Nehalem). Bummer! My newest is one Bloomfield and one Lynnfield. My "daily driver" is a Conroe Core 2 Duo. But it can't be helped I suppose. Fortunately, I'm not a "gamer". The trouble with getting a newer i3 is the infrastructure incompatibility. There's no failure short of a direct lightning strike that would take me down for more than a few minutes. Thanks, Ken. I'll start prowling kernel versions again. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] compile 4.17.7 32 bit
I'm not sure I'm clear on this. Yes, Core 2 Duo's run either 64 or 32 bit code. Linus thinks everybody runs 64-bit code. I've gotten the impression from the KPTI thing early in the year that kernel devs aren't spending much time at all on 32-bit code in the kernel. I've been hoping for KPTI mitigation for 32-bit kernels, but mostly have lost hope. So to be clear, are we talking here about running 4.17 in 32-bit mode, or just on a Core-2 Duo, which LFS would build in 64-bit mode "unless steps were taken" (gmp, et al)? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Booting LFS with systemd
> > I removed the need for using initrd, so now init=/bin/bash is working. > > Time to move forward and investigate what is causing the ABRT when > > starting systemd. Thanks for the pointer, it has grossed my mind before > > but somehow I forgot it again. > > > Frans, > > Yeah! Now we're on the right track! :) > > Looking into it, the reason why initramfs is so tightly linked to systemd > is because: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the only good reason for an initramfs is so a totally generic kernel could be built with every possible device driver for any unpredictable hardware out there as modules, then with discovery keep only those modules with the running kernel and dump the rest. But with LFS, given that 1) we know what hardware we have and that's unlikely to change much, if at all, 2) those modules need to be available to the system at all times, and 3) rebuilding the kernel isn't fearsome for us, I've never seen ANY need for an initramfs and build what's necessary as a monolithic kernel. If that's true, even with systemd, why is there any need to build an initramfs for a known system? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] 70-persistent-net-rules
I've surmounted all the obstacles and finally completed my 8.1 build, and cloned it here for testing. During the cloning the NIC rules weren't created, so I did that by hand. I'd really like to automate that in cloning, but I'd want to specify the name eth0 from the script that calls init-net-rules. The book doesn't say so, but from a cursory look at the code it seems as if ". /lib/udev/init-net-rules INTERFACE_NAME=eth0" (or the inverse) might work. Is that right? (It says it's an LFS script, so someobdy here should know.) -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Rather a lot of glibc check errors
FWIW, I've built and run LFS-7.7 on a 1.0 GHz VIA C7 "Esther", a Pentium-3 "work alike". It's a "scalar" core with branch prediction, but none of the super-scalar out-of-order execution that has become so much of a problem. I rather like the idea of working on a processor that runs at less than 10W, and the mini-ITX infrastructure makes a nice small system. It was a bit of a "heavy lift" for the processor, so I typically go back to 7.2. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Requesting to include about Package-management in lfs
> > Note: the Hint about using "git" is very old, 2003. I think you'd be hard > > pressed to find the code now, the given directory is empty. pio is about > > 95% git--I've added some features, modified one or two. And you can > > download the file from the LFS Hints. See: > > http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/downloads/files/pio-hint.txt > > > > Can't download nuthin from the hint > I guess the organization changed since I wrote the hint. But they're not hard to find if you look, they're right there next to it. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/downloads/files/pio-files/ -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Requesting to include about Package-management in lfs bookRe: lfs-support Digest, Vol 939, Issue 1
I See the Hints page about using "pio", "Package Installation Observer" (formerly known as "git", but that name got usurped). I've been using it with (B)LFS installs for almost 15 years now, and find it fits in very well, YMMV. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] libffi problems
> There is a complication here in that you are building a LFS system > which does not include gdb as that is a BLFS utility: I've been building LFS since 2004, LFS-4.1 that time, and I still don't build gdb--building 8.1 now and got 84 errors from rustc because of it. In my case, it's an "old dog, new tricks" problem. I didn't used to understand that, do now! ... snip ... > > I had the same issue. Look here: > http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/pipermail/lfs-support/2018-May/051993.html Thanks for that. Interesting reading. I build (B)LFS with the intent of being able to install it on any "compatible" system, so I've generally been cross-compiling all my builds on my Bloomfield i7-940 with CFLAGS="-march=x86-64 -mtune=generic", with a few exceptions: gmp, etc., so I can put them on, say, a Conroe Core-2 Duo. > > List, I didn't realise that the same problem was already discussed on > this mailing list. Yes, thing can get rather "buried". The book/site doesn't seem to use the errata much. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Stuck at step 5.11 (Tcl-core-8.6.8) from lfs-8.2
> >>> I'm still on 48, and admit/agree that firefox upgrades are always > >>> something I face with some trepidation. I like the KISS principle, which > >>> seems foreign in Mozillaland. If it weren't for compatibility/usability > >>> issues I might go with something else. What I want from the WWW and what > >>> devlopers want to push on me are two very different things! ;-( > >> > >> > >> I have switched to Pale moon, which I find simpler and just as safe as > >> Firefox. > >> > >> Just my 2c's worth > >> da kiwi > > > > When I last looked at Pale moon (last year), I was under the > > impression that it needed a much older version of gcc than we were > > then using ? I looked at it within the last couple months but decided not to persue it at this time. Don't remember exactly why, but probably something to do with a bunch of extra dependencies. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Stuck at step 5.11 (Tcl-core-8.6.8) from lfs-8.2
> Since that was a reply to my reply, I'll bite: Thanks for doing so. I like having reports from travellers on the road ahead. ;-) > > I prefer to run current versions of graphical browsers, or their > engines (e.g. qtwebewngine for falkon, webkitgtk if somebody uses a > browser based on that) because of the many vulnerabilities which > eventually become known. Pointing out a fundamental difference. Even when I've had to solder up my personal computer and rewrite the BIOS, still, I've always been a "computer user", interested in what it does for me, what I can do with it, not so much what it *is*. > > My preferred browser for general use is firefox, building recent > versions of that with less than 8GB is painful because of the > amount of swapping - even if the drive is an SSD. I'm still on 48, and admit/agree that firefox upgrades are always something I face with some trepidation. I like the KISS principle, which seems foreign in Mozillaland. If it weren't for compatibility/usability issues I might go with something else. What I want from the WWW and what devlopers want to push on me are two very different things! ;-( > being able to support a system or 3 years, but changes in glibc > (fixes of historic vulnerabilities) and then in firefox made that If it weren't for need to protect myself from exploits, I don't think I'd need to update nearly this often. Even so, I trail. > not possible for me. Gradually I have added to my machines, and I > realised that for me there was no benefit to updating anything older > than the previous release. I tend not to update old versions, but I do occasionally use them as was, if not for high-exposure activities. If it did a job for me once, it can do the job for me still. > > The point is that for current software, with the continuing changes > in C++ and other flavour of the month languages, the more horsepower > and memory, the greater the chance that it might build. Being retired on limited income, keeping up to date with hardware is not possible--to often it involves a total chaneover in "infrastructure". I have a buddy working for Intel that in a former job was sometimes able to bring me some of their or a coworker's discarded "garbage". Worked for me. > But of course my machines are more of the 'my lab' flavour - a > heterogenous collection, and I expect to build on each of them > rather than build on one and then roll out the binaries. I preserve the option of rebuilding, but fundamentally that's a waste of time and effort for me. I try to make binary installations as much as possible. > > Yet again, I have managed to write ambiguously. What I meant was Happens to us all. > that I continue to update the current and previous releases for > known vulnerabilities, just in case I have to use those old systems > when I've managed to trash the current one and need to recover from > backups. So I have successfully updated both 8.2 and 8.1 systems. > > ĸen My approach is to keep a couple bootable versions on each box, but I suspect my versions are a bit more stable than yours. I try to make milestones and respect them, forking more than updating. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Stuck at step 5.11 (Tcl-core-8.6.8) from lfs-8.2
> A little more to report on...I don't know how to understand this - Indeed, and that deserves some thought. > > As I mentioned, I repeated the whole exercise - right from setting up a > new VM with identical settings. Followed all the steps exactly, once > again. And everything is working fine for tcl-8.6.8. It is compiling > even with -O2. > > Now I have 2 VMs with identical settings where one fails to compile > tcl-8.6.8 with -O2 and the other where it is fine. I don't know how to > interpret this. I am accepting that I might have made a mistake in the > first instance, but the failure was very subtle, undetectable and I > don't know how to understand the peculiar behavior (compiling only with > -O2 optimization fails, but -O1 succeeds). Personally, I *wouldn't* recommend building in a VM. One just adds one more level of uncertainty, the virtual environment. I prefer "bare iron". When, as it inevitably does, it comes to trouble shooting, one must have someplace solid to stand on. > ... But if you want to go on to build a desktop with a modern > graphical browser then 8GB RAM (and even with that, maybe swap if you > are doing other things during the compilation) is more comfortable. > > For a server, it probably varies between different packages. Some > are fairly light to build. > > So no, for LFS-only, 6GB should be adequate. And I suspect many > ... Just as a data point, I'm running 7.10, XCFE, Firefox, LibreOffice on an old Conroe Core2-Duo 6700 (non E-), 4GB. This is my "daily driver". It's "fast enough", and that's all I need. I don't need a computer so fast it will finish things before I've got it all thought out, if you know what I mean. Sometimes it can be a good thing when one can't just "brute force it" and has to do it with some finesse. I'll do building on an old 12GB i7-940, so's I can use -j8. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Stuck at step 5.11 (Tcl-core-8.6.8) from lfs-8.2
> > You're asking the compiler to "pull out all the stops" to algorithmically > > optimize code the programmer clearly did not intend for such optimization. > > The programmer is [supposed to be] intelligent, the compiler is not. And, > > as I'm sure we've all seen, some programmers abuse the language trying to > > do their own "optimizations". That's why new version of the compiler > > sometimes will not work with some coding practices. For example, "Please > > note the warning under -fgcse about invoking -O2 on programs that use > > computed gotos." > > > > Paul, > > whilst I agree that increasing optimization does sometimes lead to > problems, I think you are perhaps missing something important: the > flags used by the package developer. You're right. I was trying to address the more general proposition of adding optimizations when building. IMO, it's generally not a good idea. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Stuck at step 5.11 (Tcl-core-8.6.8) from lfs-8.2
> I understand the reluctance to override the CFLAGS. But, as I have > discovered the -O2 flag is causing the trouble. Could anyone point out > to me how do I go about discovering the root cause? You're asking the compiler to "pull out all the stops" to algorithmically optimize code the programmer clearly did not intend for such optimization. The programmer is [supposed to be] intelligent, the compiler is not. And, as I'm sure we've all seen, some programmers abuse the language trying to do their own "optimizations". That's why new version of the compiler sometimes will not work with some coding practices. For example, "Please note the warning under -fgcse about invoking -O2 on programs that use computed gotos." Optimizations, especially the higher levels, when they work, produce code that does not have a clear correspondance to the source code and is not debuggable. And sometimes they may produce code that fails at "edge conditions". In my opinion, they should be considered "the cherry on top". When the code is complex and not your own, the uncertainty of what got optimized how and where is not worth the generally minor speed benefits. I never add optimization options when building LFS unless the instructions say to. If the programmer knows it's OK and adds it to the makefile parameters, fine. I don't presume to know better, that it would work when (s)he didn't use it. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] making xz-5.2.3
I'm much too old to have learned C, but I went to look at that file and the line in question. It just looked "odd", not indented as the rest of the code was. So I blew away the package, reloaded and reran the build script without "-j 8" so's I could localize any error, but still with -mtune in CFLAGS, and it ran without a hitch. Fine, I'll take it. I don't know where that odd line came from, but I don't even know if I can reproduce it. I'll go on from here, see what happens, if anything. Apologies for interrupting your weekend. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] making xz-5.2.3
I started working an 8.1 build some months ago, but I upgraded to gcc-7.3 and linux-4.14.26, for security reasons. Everything has been going well. (Host is LFS-7.10.) I have an error compiling xz-5.2.3, but this is the same version and build instructions as used in 8.2 with gcc-7.3. (I intend this to run on more than the i7 I'm building on, so have -mtune=generic, but that's the only departure from the book I know of. xz seems to be a place I'd want generic code.) You have no errata for it. I'm not turning up anything in Google from the mailiing list or generically for this. It does seem to me to be something internal. /bin/sh ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../.. -I../../src/liblzma/api -I../../src/liblzma/common -I../../src/liblzma/check -I../../src/liblzma/lz -I../../src/liblzma/rangecoder -I../../src/liblzma/lzma -I../../src/liblzma/delta -I../../src/liblzma/simple -I../../src/common -DTUKLIB_SYMBOL_PREFIX=lzma_ -pthread -fvisibility=hidden -Wall -Wextra -Wvla -Wformat=2 -Winit-self -Wmissing-include-dirs -Wstrict-aliasing -Wfloat-equal -Wundef -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -Wbad-function-cast -Wwrite-strings -Wlogical-op -Waggregate-return -Wstrict-prototypes -Wold-style-definition -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wmissing-noreturn -Wredundant-decls -march=x86-64 -mtune=generic -MT liblzma_la-lz_encoder.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/liblzma_la-lz_encoder.Tpo -c -o liblzma_la-lz_encoder.lo `test -f 'lz/lz_encoder.c' || echo './'`lz/lz_encoder.c libtool: compile: gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../.. -I../../src/liblzma/api -I../../src/liblzma/common -I../../src/liblzma/check -I../../src/liblzma/lz -I../../src/liblzma/rangecoder -I../../src/liblzma/lzma -I../../src/liblzma/delta -I../../src/liblzma/simple -I../../src/common -DTUKLIB_SYMBOL_PREFIX=lzma_ -pthread -fvisibility=hidden -Wall -Wextra -Wvla -Wformat=2 -Winit-self -Wmissing-include-dirs -Wstrict-aliasing -Wfloat-equal -Wundef -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -Wbad-function-cast -Wwrite-strings -Wlogical-op -Waggregate-return -Wstrict-prototypes -Wold-style-definition -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wmissing-noreturn -Wredundant-decls -march=x86-64 -mtune=generic -MT liblzma_la-lz_encoder.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/liblzma_la-lz_encoder.Tpo -c lz/lz_encoder.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/liblzma_la-lz_encoder.o lz/lz_encoder.c: In function 'lzma_lz_encoder_init': lz/lz_encoder.c:556:12: warning: dereferencing 'void *' pointer next->coder->mf.size = 0; ^~ lz/lz_encoder.c:556:12: error: request for member 'mf' in something not a structure or union make[4]: *** [Makefile:1331: liblzma_la-lz_encoder.lo] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory '/usr/local/src/xz-5.2.3/src/liblzma' make[3]: *** [Makefile:1553: all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory '/usr/local/src/xz-5.2.3/src/liblzma' make[2]: *** [Makefile:420: all-recursive] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory '/usr/local/src/xz-5.2.3/src' make[1]: *** [Makefile:613: all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/local/src/xz-5.2.3' make: *** [Makefile:480: all] Error 2 Any helpful ideas? TIA. (I suppose a fallback might be to try compiling without -mtune, the one known difference, and later recompile xz on something like a P4 or Conroe?) -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] LFS 7.10 libreadline.so.6 not found error - when running make in 6.40 Perl-5.24.0
> > ... I'm going through your thread "with gun and camera". I don't have > > any of the logs from that build, they're only for debugging a package's > > build. Let's see what shows up. > > > Thanks a lot :) May I offer something based on my experience I hope you can take as constructive criticism. It's the quote (I don't know whose): "Not everything that can be done, should be done." When I build my (B)LFS system(s), I intend to use them for a long time--too long Bruce and Ken would argue. ;-) Anyway, it's most important that the system gets built correctly, and that I *know* it is. If LFS has any glitches the whole system will be impeachable. So I build on the plain hardware, nothing that could compromise the environment. And even with the wrappers I put around both books' instructions, I closely follow the LFS book step by step. Is that the *only* way you can do it? No, but if not, then you have the responsibility for validating the differences are immaterial. One job to do is enough for me. I don't need to do the second too! It seems to me you may actually "know too much", running ahead, doing too much extraneous stuff not in the book. I see you running this and that trying to justify this or that got built actually OK. If you follow the book correctly, it will be OK, the other stuff is a distraction and confusion. There's an acronym around here: FBBG! (Follow Book, Book Good!) I suggest you get out of the virtual machine, go back to "bare iron" and do what the book says, and *only* what the book says, every step of the way. > Sorry for not understanding, when u mean 64-bit system u refer to the VM > host which is Ubuntu 12.04 32-bit? Or my laptops OS which is windows 10 > 64-bit? i don't get it why is it a problem, since my VM runs on 32-bit. I mean "bare iron" 64-bit hardware, with a 32-bit *nix OS running on it. Your Linux LFS system will be an OS, with an interface to and running real hardware. It needs to work with the real thing--some of the software you will build will look at that hardware, gmp for one specifically! What you have is 64-bit hardware, running MS (not exactly known for embracing Linux) Windows, preparing either a hardware-virtualized or paravirtualized 32-bit environment for your 32-bit Ubuntu, to build something that will work in a totally different real-world environment. I wouldn't guarantee that! > > > - I agree with Thanos that the "ldd /bin/bash" is a major problem, and > > means you must backtrack at least as far as 6.33, and with your diagnosis > > that there was already a problem at 6.17. "ldd /usr/bin/file" shouldn't > > still be looking at /tools, which strongly implicates 6.10, "Adjusting the > > toolchain". > > > > > A strange thing that i have not noticed is this. No! Don't go noticing strange things! It will only confuse you--as you are telling me it has. Just follow what the LFS Team has laid out for you. If you want to go your own way, build your own Linux system as a Master's Degree project, fine, go do it, but LFS isn't that. > Binaries 6.12 - 6.16 compiled with the old gcc have the correct paths on > shared libraries on ldd. > Thus because i keep vm snapshots, i skipped building 6.17 gcc and moved to > 6.18. That's all irrelevant! It involves identifying what the environment at each snapshot you may or may not have been. That's not the job any of us are volunteering for. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but none of us are going to analyze what you're telling us you did, and showing us in bits and pieces, and tell you whether it's right or wrong and why! FBBG! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] LFS 7.10 toolchain problem
> Nasty. Nikos, you didn't need to go all the way to perl, if things > are wrong like this then they won't magically get better. > > But like most other people I've stopped building on 32-bit and I > don't have a clue what went wrong. I haven't, though my last (this one I'm running right now) was 7.7. I've been prepping 8.1, but unless & until the Meltdown & Spectre patches descend to 32-bit builds, it's looking like I too will have to go 64-bit for security's sake. I did build 7.10, but 64-bit and using this (B)LFS-7.7 as host. Let me take a look at the archives, I haven't been following this thread until this caught my eye. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Intel axes viable, older CPU patches
I was hoping Intel was as good as its word, as I use Core-2 systems daily for internet access, still rely on 1st Gen i7s, and as a retired person cannot afford to "keep-up", but according to PCWorld, "The chipmaker’s latest microcode revision update now says planned revisions are “stopped” for CPUs based on the Penryn (2007), Yorkfield (2007), Wolfdale (2007), Bloomfield (2008), Clarksfield (2009), Jasper Forest (2010), and Atom “SoFIA” (2015), ... This puts the final nail in the coffin for the Core 2 series of chips, where Intel’s first quad-core processors debuted. Some first-gen Core CPUs also get the axe, including the Intel Core i7-970, 980, 980X, and 990X." -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] expect5.45.4 compile error in Chapter 5, missing files from glibc suspected, um, no
> FWIW, my aging memory may be wrong, but I believe I successfully > compiled all of Chapter 5 and 6 during an earlier run on this machine > (but since gave up the partition during a rebuild done for other > reasons), so I'll admit it's not a squeaky clean OOB Mint install. If I may suggest a procedural remedy: a very large percentage of the problems reported building LFS come from losing control of the build environment, resulting in the advice "start over". If one turns the book recipes into scripts this isn't as onerous as if done "cut & paste". It seems your issue falls broadly into this category. My suggestion is correspondingly a little broader: get control of your environment. > > But then FWIW, I just successfully compiled expect5.45.4 inside a fresh > VirtualBox using Manjaro, an Arch distro. So blame Mint... In my experience it can be dangerous grasping at the easy answer. When I have such a problem, I work to make it work right, but the job isn't done until I've also proven why the flaw happened in the first place--until I know I can make it reproducible, if you will. > > Oh well, I'll probably reboot to bare metal, or just start living inside > VirtualBox, but nailing this issue would be educational. I agree not to let it go. But if you're virtualized you should have kept "squeaky-clean" initial install systems, and have an easy time of starting in a controlled environment. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Host system requiremens
> Hazel, a little late in replying, I know, but I agree, it is annoying to > have to install two versions of Python. Of course, the Python Community > would say that there is only one version of Python now and that is Python 3. I'm on Hazel's side. I like lightweight systems. And although I do recognize there may come a time to break backward compatibility, I still wish they'd provide a P2->P3 translator. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Partial explanation for a test fail in sudo
> Because of the usefulness of sudo in installing packages, it often gets > built as an appendix to LFS using the chroot environment. If you do > this, you can expect the failure. I have never built sudo and plan never to do so. I'm the only one that uses my computers, so who am I protecting it from? I use root. One must be just as careful when using sudo anyway. Have I screwed up? Once or twice since I built my first LFS in 2004, but that's what backups are for. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] A speedup with 4.14 and later kernels (againstMeltdown)
> If anyone is still using an older stable kernel on stressed-out > intel hardware, I've just been reading a post which mentions that "Stressed-out"? Sure I have a couple i7s I *could* use, but these old 6:F:6 Conroe 6700s aren't causing me any impatience. My long-standing RoT is: ignore all performance enhancements that provide less than a 50% boost; don't actively persue any that provide less than 100%; in between only as convenient, free time and the spirit moves you. Using them for more than compie engines would violate Rule #1: Never try a faster computer than the one you use everyday. It just creates dissatisfaction where there was none before. ;-) > 4.14 now *uses* PCID (Processor Context ID, apparently added with > Westmere (previously known as Nehalem-C). Don't have. > > http://archive.is/ma8Iw > > And for anybody using i686 on 64-bit-capable CPUs (hi, Paul), you > also get more registers, so it might be worth building a > cross-compiler with gcc-7.3.0 and using that to compile a kernel. The systems I currently consider usable contain kernels 3.9.11, 4.1.42, & 4.9.75. Not expecting fixed for 3.9, but would consider upgrading 4.1 to 4.4 except for this: "The Ext3 filesystem has been removed from the Linux core repository. The reason behind this removal is that Ext3 filesystems are fully support by the Ext4 filesystem, and major distros have been already using Ext4 to mount Ext3 filesystems for a long time. With the stabilization of Ext4, maintainers think that the Ext3 codebase is useless duplicated code and should disappear." I don't use Ext4 for backward compatibility on multiboot boxes. I've just checked Kernel Archives for patches and picked up 4.4.115 & 4.9.81. I searched the Changelogs for "kpti" and "32.b" but found nothing to suggest they have mitigations for 32-bit kernels. Nor 64-bit for that matter. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Full retpoline mitigation on older systems
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Paul Rogers wrote: ... > installed this system with the original kernel on a 1 MHz low-power > (~10W) VIA C7 "Esther" (P3 equivalent) system, but while compatible the > CPU can be painfully slow. Not today, Esther. I worked on my > "development box", on a 2.66 MHz Core-2 Duo "Conroe" 6700. Brain f**t. My systems are old and slow, but not THAT slow! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Full retpoline mitigation on older systems
The most recent i686 system I have running (and want to still consider runnable) is an LFS-7.7 with gcc-4.9.2. I had already patched the kernel to 4.1.42, then recently 4.4.110. The most recent patch level I saw today is 4.4.114, which I suppose has "nicer" patches. I've installed this system with the original kernel on a 1 MHz low-power (~10W) VIA C7 "Esther" (P3 equivalent) system, but while compatible the CPU can be painfully slow. Not today, Esther. I worked on my "development box", on a 2.66 MHz Core-2 Duo "Conroe" 6700. I generally followed Ken's path, with the excption that in compiling gcc-7.3 I added --target=i686-pc-linux-gnu to make double sure there was no confusion on this x86-64 capable CPU to build i686 code. The compile went fine, and when I patched the kernel I agreed to the "retpoline" option. But when I use a version of my usual kern-build script modified with the PATH change as Ken used it, going first through menuconfig (there *was* some change that prompted a rebuild, right?) PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION was missing from Security Options, so apparently the Meltdown mitigation hasn't made its way into 4.4 i686 kernels yet. No use building Spectre mitigation if Meltdown is wide open, so I bailed out at that point. I'm still hoping for Meltdown patches! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Full retpoline mitigation on older systems
> If anybody wants to add full retpoline mitigation (against Spectre > v2) to an older system, the following works on x86_64 (I no longer > have i686 systems to test on). Thank you, Ken. I do. I can try it. I'll report back when I have information. I haven't seen any indications yet that the 4.4 & 4.9 kernel patches install PTI on i686 builds. Also, perhaps you can clarify: The latest kernel patches for 4.4 & 4.9 use retpoline. Clearly we *want* both, but I'm confused about whether each offers any mitigation on its own? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Reasonably informative thread(s) on LKML
Things I found on the LKML "Hottest" lists. They still seem to be "churning", and from the "peanut gallery" I'm trying to make sense of it so as to plan my own action. It doesn't all make sense to me, YMMV, but I think I'd like to have some sense of what's going on, so I have an idea when to act on what. Still don't think that's very apparent. Anyway, enjoy, I'm hoping it's informative. I'm including some threads I found about microcode too, since that's been a "matter". If you follow the reply links backward and foreward, left column, a bunch more may "open up". GCC-7.3 is out. (Got it, but haven't looked at it.) This is a day older (1/22) than another link I posted, but it gives an entree into the LKML recent thoughts on the problem (not to say it's "the end of the matter"): https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/22/598 This is an older (1/4) thread about IBRS/IBPB microcode patches that has a rather extensive chain: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/4/615 Responses to that "garbage": https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/21/194 Newer (1/20) long-chain thread about Spectre v2 microcode patch: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/20/158 -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] GCC retpoline
> May want to browse the GCC development discussions at various sites. This > mentions talk about back porting all the way to GCC-4. > > William Harrington I want it *now*! ;-) Highly interestingly, among the scattergun blast at fixes there's this; https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/23/25 It claims besides very little performance impact, and "It's much more backportable to older kernels..." > > There is now a little documentation (it probably won't satisfy Paul, > it doesn't say what the various versions changed, but I don't think > there is anything for his machines anyway). Intel's policy, not being specific about microcode fixes, amounts to "security through obscurity" and that has always had to change. > > Looks like Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge will not be getting updates, > so the same presumably applies to older generations. > > ĸen Krzanich didn't promise fixes for older stuff, but look at the reputation hit on Apple's battery slowdown. This will last far longer than the FDIV bug and hurt worse. > > I am assuming that it is safer to keep the kernel updated and hope for > the best. ... If this is a wrong-headed strategy, please advise. Hard to say, the kernel is in such flux. I'm reminded of an old aphorism of a couple centuries ago, "Yer pays yer money and takes yer chances." > I am finding the discussion of these events on the list an > extremely helpful and informative supplement to the LFS-build process. Indeed, the more of us looking for the best advice to share, the better for us all. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] GCC retpoline
On Tue, Jan 23, 2018, at 10:38 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Paul Rogers wrote: > > "SUSE's Richard Biener is making preparations for officially releasing GCC > > 7.3.0 on Thursday, 25 January. > > > > GCC 7.3 is the point release to GCC 7 that's quickly being prepared to ship > > the Spectre patches." > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=GCC-7.3-Thursday > > > > Anybody know of fixes backported to gcc-6? > > No, I don't know that, but please be aware that we are also due new > binutils on the same day and a new glibc on Feb 1st. > I'm not ready to upgrade to LFS-8.x yet, so I want to keep this 7.10 usable for the time being. It uses gcc-6.2. I've gotten kernel patch-4.9.77 which has retpoline support. The Help for the option implies it's worth installing even without compiler support, but I'd rather have it. One option is upgrading just gcc-7.3 this week, but I'd have fewer uncertainties staying with the gcc-6 series if it has the patches. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] GCC retpoline
"SUSE's Richard Biener is making preparations for officially releasing GCC 7.3.0 on Thursday, 25 January. GCC 7.3 is the point release to GCC 7 that's quickly being prepared to ship the Spectre patches." https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=GCC-7.3-Thursday Anybody know of fixes backported to gcc-6? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] ArsTechnica: Meltdown and Spectre: Good news for AMD
> And has anybody seen the "frequent reboots" on linux ? Or only on > windows ? Windows? Wazzat? ;-) > > Early reports suggested Haswell and Broadwell were affected - my > Haswell does have new firmware, but I haven't seen the problem. Not to beat a dead horse, but without an Intel Changelog how can you tell just what you have vs whatever "fix" causes the reboots? Maybe all you got were some of the usual "stability" fixes? > > I saw a report a little while ago claiming that machines as far back > as SandyBridge were also affected, but my SB didn't get newer > firmware. > > ĸen The initial reports suggest even my Conroes and Nehalem-Bloomfield/Lynnfield are! -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] ArsTechnica: Meltdown and Spectre: Good news for AMD users, (more) bad news for Intel
"Windows patches are fixed, but microcode updates are causing even more trouble." https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/good-newsbad-news-in-quest-to-get-meltdown-and-spectre-patched/ -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
> Paul Rogers wrote: > >> Well, except if the kernel breaks something, just remove the file and > >> grub entry and then reboot. If a BIOS/UEFI update causes an issue, you > >> get the pleasure of finding out whether there is a supported downgrade > >> path. :-) > > > > IF your system hasn't been "bricked". > > If you are loading firmware via an initrd, how can the systemd be bricked? > At every boot it reverts to the original firmware. > Perhaps I misunderstood, I thought it was talking about a BIOS update with the new microcode embedded. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
> Well, except if the kernel breaks something, just remove the file and > grub entry and then reboot. If a BIOS/UEFI update causes an issue, you > get the pleasure of finding out whether there is a supported downgrade > path. :-) IF your system hasn't been "bricked". -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Paul Rogers wrote: > > > Updating microcode can be a dangerous thing. I've never found a need > > to live on the bleeding edge of technology. > > I agree about bleeding edge issues, but leading edge is OK. My view is > that rc releases and betas or earlier are bleeding edge and latest stable > is leading edge. > > I don't really think updating microcode is dangerous if you have control. > After all, there is really no difference between firmware (aka BIOS or > UEFI) loading microcode and the kernel doing it via an initrd. > >-- Bruce > I agree, in principal, it's less dangerous than flashing a BIOS. But as noted, the updates rushed out initially have caused new stability problems for certain CPUs. Intel has had an imperious attitude about identifying the fixes for users like us. I want some "transparency" from Intel. I consider our ignorance as a "lack of control." I just want to know if the microcode in the bundle for Conroes has actually been updated for Spectre--if I were to assume it has been, and it has not, nothing good can come from it. One of the Conroes I have in service is a Quad-Extreme, two 2.93MHz chips in a MCM package, not quite the common thing and I think perhaps worthy of special attention. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
> I don't have any love for general initrds, but using an initrd for > microcode allows early loading - for a few intel machines with buggy > microcode, that is the only available method. Sure, if it comes to that being necessary. Otherwise, I'll opt for late loading whenever possible. AFAICT, none of my machines are members of that "few". > > But since you aren't going to load new microcode without knowing > what it does (I suppose that means knowing what it claims to fix, > otherwise you would not be looking at microcode at all), for your > older machines I guess you will never apply any. > > ĸen I don't know. I suspect there's a chance Intel *may* start publishing a Changelog. It really need not be so detailed that it reveals "trade secrets". And I could make-do with a report that certain updates *do* mitigate Spectre. Intel has withdrawn some of the updates because they caused new problems. Updating microcode can be a dangerous thing. I've never found a need to live on the bleeding edge of technology. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
> > Not all the microcode is to fix Spectre! True enough, but I don't feel an urgency to fix anything else. ;-) > > My experience is that intel microcode for older processors does not > get changed, but they copy it into the latest tarball. Intel took some heat for their early attempts at deflection, which is why they've released this ancient microcode, I suppose. The question remains whether it, say the P3 microcode, patches the Spectre flaw--if anybody still at Intel even knows the P3 microcode well enough to do it! > > And no, I also don't think CPUs before the Pentium4 can have > microcode updated at runtime. But the P3 is apparently used in > embedded products, perhaps manufacturers can use the microcode to > refresh their bios. Perhaps, but one sees little incentive for them. I think we have to go straight for the CPU ourselves with the Linux kernel. > > If you get microcode for an old Intel CPU, and load it, you should > be able to see in dmesg the before/after versions, and the date. > Alternatively, your motherboard may already be using that version. /proc/cpuinfo says I've got microcode 0xcb on my twin Conroes. I'm not even going to *try* to update the microcode unless and until I can establish it's going to mitigate Spectre. Only one good thing can happen, many bad things. A couple years ago, when I backed up my i7-940 with an i7-870, I checked for microcode updates. The 870 had one/some, the 940 did not. Likewise, even if updates are published, I need to know what they do before I make a move. > > For matching filenames to hardware, I guess you mean the family - > - model - stepping part : I don't know of any way to convert that to > particular CPUs, /proc/cpuinfo gives us that, plus the microcode level. > > If you still have a problem, please ask. I'm not going to *create* a problem until I have some confidence it's worth the risk. I'm certainly not going to take the risk, just to end up with the same microcode level. I want to see something from Intel that details what microcode levels each of those files are at, and given the nature of things, that Spectre is or is not mitigated. > > One further comment: although the debian microcode that I posted > about last week does work as a (large) initrd to cover multiple > machines (in early loading), I have no idea how to generate such a > multi-machine initrd. That is why near the top of the page I wrote: > "Preparing firmware for multiple different machines, as a distro > would do, is outside the scope of this book." > > ĸen I have avoided using initrds, and want to continue to do so. I don't build POD with the idea it will be thrown at arbitrary hardware. Initial kernels are built monolithically to boot on reasonably common hardware of a certain vintage, but after booting the sysadmin is expected to soon build a customized kernel, eliminating a lot of HD drivers, adding NIC, ALSA, AGP/FB/DRI--none of which are *necessary* to boot. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Intel microcode updates adding confusion?
This morning I was referred to this site with microcode updates: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/27431/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File But it claims to have microcode updates going back to the venerable "P54" Pentium-90 and "P55" Pentium-233 MMX. I'm confused. We're not told these i586 CPUs, which don't do speculative execution, are susceptible to SPECTRE. I don't recall reading microcode *could* be updated on them! I was afraid microcode for the Pentium-3 family, a few of which I *can* still run, would be neglected, but I don't know what to make of all this. Making sense of Intel's file names as relates to particular hardware is also obscure to me. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
> I would not abandon hope just yet, although the chances are probably > slim. The *big* target is rented (by the hour or whatever) machines > and VMs - those are almost wholly x86_64 and that is where people's > data is most at risk of the Meltdown vulnerability. Certainly those, but I think there are many boxen "behind the scenes", for loose definitions of "embedded" something like kiosks, et al., that are running necessary functions that nobody but installers and maintenance techs ever sees or thinks about. In '98 or so I pulled into my usual gas station for a fillup, and one of the pumps had it's cover off. I immediately recognized a 40-pin DIP on the board and had to take a look. It was a 1976 vintage Zilog Z-80 running the gas pump. Computers have snuck in everywhere! > Gentoo writes: "... Currently, the KPTI patch-set is only available for > 64-bit Gentoo operating systems. Some 32-bit operating systems (for > example if you are using 4gb/4gb memory split) are immune because they > use separate memory maps for kernel and userspace. ..." > > Unfortunatly not specified what "Some 32-bit operating systems" are. In my investigation I too saw the 4GB/4GB split mentioned but with something else that caused me to disregard it--it had been pulled or something. I have 4GB in my "everyday" Conroes, though the refurb box I dedicate to W10 so's it can run TurboTax is only 2GB, IIRC. IMO, running a 64-bit OS is a plus only if it has more than 4GB to play with. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
> Uuh, not that I'm aware of that in .10 the PTI stuff was implemented. > In that .10-system, "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows nothing in the "bugs:" > line (while .12 says "bugs: cpu_insecure") and there is nothing about > KPTI in dmesg when booting the .10. I've just upgraded my LFS-7.10 system to 4.9.75 and dmesg shows: ... [0.00] SLUB: HWalign=64, Order=0-3, MinObjects=0, CPUs=2, Nodes=1 [0.00] Kernel/User page tables isolation: enabled [0.00] Hierarchical RCU implementation. ... I made sure to look for it! ;-) > > I have no idea about the changes with each generation, but for > recent models, provided hyperthreading is enabled, linux sees 8 > cores in this situation - depending on the kernel config, it might > slightly change how things are scheduled, but overall it rotates > jobs between all cores. True, there is scheduling being done at the OS level, and the hyperthreading chips are telling the OS, "Give me two threads to do, I can handle it." But there is also a scheduling process going on *within* the processor as the two threads vie for processing elements within the pipeline. There are differences between different architectures, but the best evidence for competitive bottlenecks within a hyperthreaded CPU is that Intel only claimed a 30% performance improvement (I believe on the single core P4D). My dual core Conroes will give much more because each pipeline is separate, without contention, and the cores only compete for L2 cache and the off-chip Bus Interface. > The difference with hyperthreading is that things like > floating-point get shared between siblings. More than that! See this for the Nehalem internals: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Intel_Nehalem_arch.svg > If I watch 'top' (recent version) I can see an activity line for > each core. And the activity moves around. Indeed, but that's at the OS dispatching level. If you could get fine enough granularity, again depending on specific CPU architecture, you'd see that the "raw" performance of those "cores" either 1) split into two groups, or 2) change depending on whether there is one or two threads running in the core. > I asked on lwn, so far the consensus is that a lot of 32-bit x86 is > embedded and never gets updated anyway. Distros are gradually > dropping i686, AFAICS nobody has offered a potential fix - but there > is a PoC exploit at github which can apparently run on i686. Yeah, kernel devs always get the latest and greatest HW, so it's not their ox getting gored. It's so easy for them to presume nothing else matters. If you're on LKML, please tell them their assumption is wrong! The 32-bit systems are still vulnerable, still doing important jobs, and if updating the software is going to be difficult, replacing the hardware in a timely fashion is very much more so. What kind of important jobs? How about all the infrastructure we all depend upon? Like having potable water coming out of the tap? > said he *thought* the problem started with the Westmere generation. So the guys who found it and said it affected everything since PPro were wrong? Maybe he should tell them. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
> On Mon, Jan 08, 2018 at 04:14:50PM -0800, Paul Rogers wrote: > > I've just patched one of my older Core2 "Conroe", LFS-7.7, up to 4.4.110. > > It's an i686 system. > > > > Any ideas? TIA. > > > > Looking at my lkml mailbox, patch 02 of 37 for this version added I haven't been able to GET to LKML for 3 days now. It keeps timing-out. > Sorry. I'm afraid 32-bit x86 gets much less love these days. Please, if anyone runs across the 32-bit patch, let me know. There certainly are many 32-bit system still in service! Yes, I can run x86-64 on my Conroes, but it's noticably slower, especially for such things as starting X. > > Meassuring LFS builds looks a bit different to me (column 2+3 are build > times in seconds and may not be 100% accurate but the trend is clear): > > Package 4.14.10 .12 Ratio > > 034-binutils-pass1 97 113 1,16 > 035-gcc-pass1 261 296 1,13 > 036-linux-headers 617 2,83 > 037-glibc 149 178 1,19 AIUI chips, such as my elderly i7-940, are actually 4 cores that pretend to have 8 using the hyperthreading introduced with the Pentium-D. The hyperthreaded core is scheduled on an "as resources are available" basis--the "real" core has priority. Performance figures I saw back in the day showed a hyperthreaded system provided at most 140% of the equivalent single core--certainly worth having, but NOT 200%. "Wikipedia: According to Intel, the first hyper-threading implementation used only 5% more die area than the comparable non-hyperthreaded processor, but the performance was 15–30% better. Intel claims up to a 30% performance improvement compared with an otherwise identical, non-simultaneous multithreading Pentium 4." So exactly what preceeded the build would change the way tasks got assigned to the next available "core", hence what ran on real cores vs hyperthreaded "cores" and different timings. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
I've just patched one of my older Core2 "Conroe", LFS-7.7, up to 4.4.110. It's an i686 system. With each minor-version patch "make oldconfig" was run. I saw no kernel config parameter for PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION when I rebuilt the patched kernel. I can find no evidence it has been built into this kernel. I did get some hits for "kaiser" in the source code, arch/x86/mm/kaiser.c, and the mm/Makefile looks for CONFIG_PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION. The make log I kept does not contain the string "kaiser", nor does /boot/System.map. Any ideas? TIA. Here's the config file's security options (not mentioned): # # Security options # CONFIG_KEYS=y # CONFIG_PERSISTENT_KEYRINGS is not set # CONFIG_BIG_KEYS is not set # CONFIG_ENCRYPTED_KEYS is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_DMESG_RESTRICT is not set CONFIG_SECURITY=y # CONFIG_SECURITYFS is not set CONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK=y # CONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK_XFRM is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_PATH is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_SMACK is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_TOMOYO is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR is not set # CONFIG_SECURITY_YAMA is not set CONFIG_INTEGRITY=y # CONFIG_INTEGRITY_SIGNATURE is not set CONFIG_INTEGRITY_AUDIT=y # CONFIG_IMA is not set # CONFIG_EVM is not set CONFIG_DEFAULT_SECURITY_DAC=y CONFIG_DEFAULT_SECURITY="" CONFIG_XOR_BLOCKS=y CONFIG_ASYNC_CORE=y CONFIG_ASYNC_MEMCPY=y CONFIG_ASYNC_XOR=y CONFIG_ASYNC_PQ=y CONFIG_ASYNC_RAID6_RECOV=y CONFIG_CRYPTO=y # # Crypto core or helper # > > The ext3 filesystem is still available in 4.14. > > I read it wasn't: > "KernelNewbies: 4.3 Apparently that source was wrong. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Status report from Greg Kroah-Hartman
http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2018/01/06/meltdown-status/ -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
>> Likewise, I'm not betting kernel patches will get pushed down >> to the kernels that support those old systems. ext3 is not >> supported in the latest kernels, so instructions to install >> the latest kernels will leave many systems non-functional. >> I think patches need to be pushed back to 3.19 kernels. > > The ext3 filesystem is still available in 4.14. I read it wasn't: "KernelNewbies: Linux_4.3 Last updated at 2017-12-30 01:30:22 Linux 4.3 has been released on 1 Nov 2015 Summary: This release removes the ext3 filesystem and leaves Ext4, which can also mount Ext3 filesystems, as the main Ext filesystem; " -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Page Table Isolation
I have been searching and reading intently for the past day also. I am disappointed by the rush to republish and dearth of solid data beyond the Proof of Concept. Apparently in theory Spectre haunts all processors back to the Pentium Pro. There is very little solid evidence of what steppings of what processors are vulnerable. Intel changes masks often enough that it's NOT clear that every processors will have similar exposure, e.g. the infamous ancient FDIV bug only affected certain steppings of one of the P54 CPUs. I'm not betting anybody will critically evaluate the older CPUs still in service, e.g. my two Core2 Duos and one Core2 Quad Extreme, i7/940 & 870, even a few Pentium 3's, Coppermine, Tualatin and even Esther. Likewise, I'm not betting kernel patches will get pushed down to the kernels that support those old systems. ext3 is not supported in the latest kernels, so instructions to install the latest kernels will leave many systems non-functional. I think patches need to be pushed back to 3.19 kernels. I'm making plans for patching kernels, and identifying systems that CAN be. But I'll wait a few days for patches to solidify. There are significant infrastructure issues all around. Not to mention (Windows & Linux) "kernel" support for all the systems in commercial service in hospitals, grocery stores, and offices that will never be updated. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Internet in chroot
To be sure, you and I have different goals we're trying to achieve, which influences how we build systems. When it comes to building the packages, I go very close to the book in most circumstances, but higher-level parts of my process are quite different than the book supposes. While it may be confusing to the first-timer, I think there's some value to discussion of process. > So ? I agree that if you screwed up the network interface itself > (misnamed, or missing kernel driver) then networking will not work > *after* you have booted until you fix that, I've got a dozen, maybe two, things I've got to have immediately after LFS, but firewall-protected networking comes next. So once I've got networking going I usually shift to building the rest of the system in the system itself--no questions of contamination or kernel support. I admit to being a bit "old-school" and comfortable working/building at a CLI with a couple VTs--though, admittedly a virgin LFS is a bit *too* Spartan for comfort. Generally, GUI comes in the latter half of my build process. > and also I am well-known > for not running testsuites in my own builds (for many desktop > packages I regard the tests as only useful for the maintainer), but Justifiable. > > For my server, running 8.1, I built and tested NetAddr-IP, Net-DNS, > Net-HTTP before booting the new system. No problems with the tests, > they correctly remarked that certain optional deps were not present > and did not run those tests. I'd like the confidence of seeing the tests have run successfully. So with some trepidation, I'll have the network up and router on. > And if somebody wants to download via the host system there is > always the possibility of booting bare LFS, fixing any errors, going > back to chroot, building through to e.g. Xorg (or Wayland, I > suppose), booting the now-BLFS system to check that things work, and > then going back to chroot until the preferred browser etc have been > built (I do that fairly often on builds where I have updated a lot > of packages, gurgling[¹] for fixes in 'links -g' or lynx is not very > productive). I don't know, maybe we're talking about about the same thing, but once I have those essential comfort items built in the chroot, maybe just before building the important networking packages, or just after, I generally abandon the chroot for good. I still have and use the host for other things including research, but there's nothing necessary to completing the build in the GUI or web browser. The paradigm of my development is "KISS", so I prefer to keep confusion to a minimum, so when I have a comfortable system to use, I find the confusion of having the original host still involved is worth avoiding. > > For *your* distro (building the basics on an i7, distributing the > LFS system to older machines, each of which will be used for a > different purpose) I can understand why you do things your way - but > it is by no means the only way to successfully bring up a new system. > > My purpose is to not put people off by saying "you shouldn't do that" > when maybe they can. I thought I was being clear when I said "it's not worth doing" that I was expressing a personal value judgement. > > ĸen > > 1. I think it was tglx (a kernel maintainer) who first used that >phrase, I like it. New to me. But I fear google is more than a number, it's now a verb that's not going away! Like "Zipper" or "Kleenex" the original trademark owner has had it wrested away. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Internet in chroot & do not want doing lfs forbootable
> Is it possible to connect to the internet in chroot > while being connected in the host system? > > Steve Berman For all practical purposes, no, it's not worth doing. Simply put, a chroot is not a "virtual machine". (For comparison, there's a fair amount of work one needs to do to get a virtual machine connected to the host's network/router--*far* more than just a simple chroot.) What I have done, which is *nearly* as good ;^) , is do the chroot in an xterm and have another xterm beside it NOT in the chroot but "cd"ed there, then use that to fetch things by hand. But I spend so much time preparing that's rarely necessary. So, once LFS is finished, then there may be some "essentials" one needs immediately, e.g. preferred editor, environment, iptables firewall, etc., but soon after that one needs to get networking running, boot and run in the new system. Yes, the LFS system is so Spartan it's unpleasant to use, but there's no good reason to put off booting too long. It's better done before there are too many added complications. > > Paul, why do you say that about perl modules ? I have been known to > build a few in chroot. Many can be, but testing in those that involve any networking or internet stuff will try to access the network interfaces, and even internet. > replies is that until you actually boot the LFS system you won't > know if your kernel config, and the boot= part of its entry in grub, > is correct. Agreed. IMO, it's best to not get *too* far ahead in the chroot before verifying one has a functional system. > Some people spend days getting their kernel config to be bootable in > LFS (no modules for your LFS filesystem(s) and disk controller(s)). > > ĸen Here, in the Ch8 kernel I concentrate on only what is necessary to bare-bones boot on whatever compatible boxen I will possibly have, i.e. no SMP, sound, graphics, even networking, but lots of disk drivers. One of my essentials mentioned above is patching the LFS kernel version up, and then I build a second kernel much the same, though in this one I add all the netfilter modules my firewall will need. These two kernels are "templates" I use in cloning my "distro". It's presumed that once the clone lands on a specific box, then a specific kernel will be built for that box in its intended purpose configuration. I don't think I've ever deleted those first two kernels on any cloned box--fallbacks. WFM. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] do not want doing lfs for bootable
> I had went into ch.8.3., and do not want doing lfs for bootable, at > least now. > May I hope that this situation will keep when I will work with BLFS? > Thank. > That will work, as outlined previously, up to a certain point. When you install networking packages to your BLFS system, and when you install things that need it, or when you install the GUI, or certain other things, e.g. perl modules, you should be in the BLFS system natively. It seems you've got a Debian host, so you may not WANT to install GRUB in your BLFS system! Debian can multi-boot your BLFS system just fine. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] what doing after error ch5.17.
> >> On 12.10.2017 12:49, Gdsi wrote: > >> Hi. Explain what doing after error ch5.17. Bison-3.0.4>make check: > >> ''' > >> lfs@debian:/mnt/lfs/sources/bison-3.0.4$ make check Was it unclear that (s)he was far from proficient in English? It's hardly surprizing that the book was not well understood. IMO removing mention of tests, whether they MOSTLY work or not--that's irrelevant, from Ch5 is appropriate. Don't tell someone, "Don't do what I'm going to tell you all through this chapter," and proceed to tell them how to do what they're not supposed to do, and be surprixed when they continue to do it. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Copied system refuses to compile
> I built LFS 8.0 systemd 32 bits succesfully on my desktop (AMD64 > processor). > I copied the system to a laptop (32 bits Intel processor) with rsync. It > boots all right there but it refuses to compile new sources. > > I did the same a couple of years ago with LFS 7.8, built on another > desktop with a Intel-32 bits processor, without that kind of problem. > > I can give more details, but maybe the above is enough for a hint where > to look for a solution. > Upward compatibility does not mean backward compatibility! You have different CPU architectures, which means cross-compiling throughout. Even "compatible" Intel CPUs may not be entirely compatible, e.g. Pentium 3 vs Pentium 4 vs Core2. That whole process is very delicate. In general, without due care, the RoT is "within families" and "upward only", and maybe not even the last. If you go back in the archives for the last couple or three months you'll find other threads on this kind of issue--one mine, crosscompiling for a 32-bit i686 box, with a 32-bit LFS running on an 8-core i7 box (for obvious reasons). Ken's right, GMP is first and foremost among the stumbling blocks, especially where gcc is involved, but there are others, e.g. I'm not sure how to tell Clang to cross-compile, audio-video drivers, MPEG decoders, etc. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Console adjustment
> > Maybe change the video mode on the kernel command line if using KMS. > Append something like video=1024x768-24@60m, for instance, to the > grub.conf. The first four values and separators should be obvious, the m > adds margins. See Documentation/fb/modedb.txt for complete documentation. > > --DJ > Thanks, that looks very interesting. Never would've found it. It's a different box, but I'll be firing it up soon and play around with those numbers. -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Console adjustment
One of the computers I just attached to my KVM switch doesn't have enough "front Porch" for the monitor in use, the first character is "off the edge". If I move the image right using monitor adjustments, then the other computers lose one on the right. Is there a way to over-ride the BIOS parameter as soon as I get into Linux? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Ensuring a generic x86_64 build
> Paul Rogers wrote: > >> I noticed this note about GMP: > >> > >> "The default settings of GMP produce libraries optimized for the host > >> processor." > >> > >> Using the default configure settings in the summary of build options I > >> see "Host type: skylake-pc-linux-gnu". I then see gcc is using > >> "-mtune=skylake" when compiling the GMP library. Now if I use > >> configfsf.guess as mentioned in the LFS book, it will build with "Host > >> type: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu". So I've made a note to recompile GMP when > >> I move it to the older system. > > > > Isn't that a PITA? But check out the "fat" option. > > Not really. Do you want performance or portability? The user decides. > In this case the default is performance which I, for one, like. "De gustibus non disputandem", I suppose. I always go for portability. If a box goes "toes-up" I want the ability to pull the drive, put it in something generally similar, boot and go. I always keep an old generic kernel around, "just in case". -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Ensuring a generic x86_64 build
> I noticed this note about GMP: > > "The default settings of GMP produce libraries optimized for the host > processor." > > Using the default configure settings in the summary of build options I > see "Host type: skylake-pc-linux-gnu". I then see gcc is using > "-mtune=skylake" when compiling the GMP library. Now if I use > configfsf.guess as mentioned in the LFS book, it will build with "Host > type: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu". So I've made a note to recompile GMP when > I move it to the older system. Isn't that a PITA? But check out the "fat" option. > > Beyond GMP, is anyone aware of other LFS packages which, when using > the default compilation options, could lead to binaries that are > tightly coupled to the host build's processor? I'd like my build to > be as generic as possible so that it can run on any other x86_64 > system. I do too, just got into trouble over this and had to rebuild. Apparently that is the only package (so far!) to be so presumptuous. -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Iproute2-4.12.0 - error during make install
> When building Iproute2 in LFS Chapter 6 during "make install" I get 3 > errors: > > make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/lfs/build/iproute2-4.12.0/tipc' > install -m 0755 /sbin > install: missing destination file operand after '/sbin' > Try 'install --help' for more information. > make[1]: *** [Makefile:25: install] Error 1 install takes two arguments, what you're going to install and where you're going to install it. Your install only has one, which install assumed was the "what" and gave you an error that you didn't tell it "where". That error was found consistently. So, no, your build is not OK. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: [lfs-support] Cross-compiling in Ch6
> On 09/01/2017 11:04 AM, Paul Rogers wrote: > > Being able to use my (now old) i7 to build (B)LFS has made this much > > faster, but seems to have tripped me up. I was trying to build an i686 > > LFS, and thought it was enough to use an older i686-made OS and > > toolchain. Works on Conroe targets, but when I actually tried a > > Pentium-3 the kernel panicked, and when trying to rebuild the kernel > > with a chroot from a real i686 OS and toolchain, make kept segfaulting. > > > > In spite of my package management wrappers, I always have followed the > > book closely, but the book presumes one will run on the same system, not > > a lower-grade member of the family. I'm guessing I'll need to use > > --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu throughout Ch6, and perhaps even a similar > > --target for binutils, GMP, MPFR, MPC, & gcc? Is that right? > > Used to be able to do various uname hacks to get around it. If kernel is > a real i686 kernel, something really simple like this: > > mv /bin/uname /bin/uname.orig > cat > /bin/uname << "EOF" > #!/bin/bash > # Begin /bin/uname > /bin/uname.orig $@ | sed 's@x86_64@i686@g' > # End /bin/uname > EOF > chmod 755 /bin/uname > > But with that said, I've no idea whether it will actually work. It used > to. Also would probably want to use march and mtune flags and probably > need to use config.fsf for gmp or explicitly set the target for that one. > > --DJ > OK, to clarify the above, I was _trying_ to make the "POD-6.1"/LFS-7.7 on the i7 for i686 by using a real i686 host "POD-4.1"/LFS-7.2. uname -a says I have an i686 kernel. The "triplet" is i686-pc-linux-gnu. But as I was following the book too closely, without --host & --target, [GMP let] some i7 instructions apparently crept into binutils and gcc, and the triplet isn't quite true. I guess what I got from Ch5 then was an i686 to i7 cross-compiler? The system *seems* to work. > > > > > clfs.org > > > > akh > Ahh, I see, I think. I need to make the i686 compiler in Ch5. And go back to hosting on POD-4.1/LFS-7.2 where --host is really what it claims. But I'm still trying to avoid doing all the work of the whole CLFS cross-build. AIUI I'll have i686 host and target, but just have to tell binutils and gcc, "No, you can't use everything you can see!" in Ch5. (Reminding me a bit of when I needed to run second-level VMs on IBM's VM/SP4 in the mid 80's. (On a dual-processor 14.7MHz 8MB 4381. How times have changed!) Confusing for a while, but finally it "clicked-in". I'm still in the confused stage now.) -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
[lfs-support] Cross-compiling in Ch6
Being able to use my (now old) i7 to build (B)LFS has made this much faster, but seems to have tripped me up. I was trying to build an i686 LFS, and thought it was enough to use an older i686-made OS and toolchain. Works on Conroe targets, but when I actually tried a Pentium-3 the kernel panicked, and when trying to rebuild the kernel with a chroot from a real i686 OS and toolchain, make kept segfaulting. In spite of my package management wrappers, I always have followed the book closely, but the book presumes one will run on the same system, not a lower-grade member of the family. I'm guessing I'll need to use --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu throughout Ch6, and perhaps even a similar --target for binutils, GMP, MPFR, MPC, & gcc? Is that right? -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page Do not top post on this list. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
