Re: AUTO: Joel Nider is out of the office (returning 01/09/2013)
Can someone please remind everyone to exclude mailing lists from their "GONE" scripts, and unsubscribe the following guy (with an explanatory personal message) until he has fixed his script? On Fri, 2013-08-16 at 16:06 +0300, Joel Nider wrote: > I am out of the office until 01/09/2013. > > > > > Note: This is an automated response to your message "Linux-il Digest, Vol > 56, Issue 6" sent on 16/08/2013 12:21:55. > > This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away. -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linking problems with several static libraries
On Wed, 2013-07-10 at 21:31 +0300, Diego Iastrubni wrote: > My program needs liba, which in turn needs libb.. which in turn needs libk. > The last libk needs symbols from liba.. and this is where it gets funky. > While > linking g++ complains that symbols are missing ... and from ar+nm I see that > those symbols are avarilable on liba. You did not say if those libraries are your employer's or provided by 3rd parties. If the libraries are your employer's, then the long range solution is to restructure (another term is refactor) them to eliminate the circular dependencies from which you suffer. This would also make it possible to develop unit tests for the libraries and for your project in general. If the libraries are provided by a 3rd party, then report a bug (!) against them, and have them refactor the libraries to fix the bug. --- Omer -- There is no IGLU Cabal because. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Blu-Ray and Linux
On Thu, 2013-06-27 at 10:14 +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013, Omer Zak wrote about "Re: Blu-Ray and Linux": > > external disk drive of equivalent storage capability. The only > > advantage of Blu-Ray would be immunity against EMP. Even then, I have > > Have you considered a second backup disk, in a faraday cage? :-) I have two 2T backup disks and routinely back up my PC's hard disk using a script which is based upon 'rsync -avH --link-dest'. To back up about 550GB data (most of it is unchanged) takes, in my case, about 1:30 hours. YMMV. Does anyone know where to buy (or how to make) a Faraday cage suitable for protecting a hard disk against EMP from an A-bomb exploding at distance of say 10Km? (The use case being my home city getting attacked while I am elsewhere. For the moment, let's ignore any other disruptions which would prevent me from actually using the data in the preserved hard disk.) > > So the only reason to buy a Blu-Ray drive would be to view Blu-Ray > > movies and TV series (such as Dr. Who). > > Or look those up in bittorrent ;-) Are there any legal means, available to frayer Israelis, who wish to buy such content and download it via Internet, without bothering with physical media? --- Omer -- As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Is it OK to poll() a device file descriptor
Why not to use a socket (Unix socket or TCP/IP socket), push your
"0123456789" in one side and retrieve the same from the other side?
You'll need different code to open/close the socket, but writing/reading
will look the same.
--- Omer
On Wed, 2013-06-19 at 09:01 +0300, Elazar Leibovich wrote:
> I think I didn't explain myself correctly, so let me give a different
> example.
>
> Let's make a file descriptor that counts to 9.
>
>
> I.e, we want to emulate the behavior:
>
>
> int fd = make_counter_fd();
> assert(write(fd, buf, 100) == 11);
> assert(strcmp(buf, "0123456789") == 0);
>
>
> Let me describe a very simple version of the main poll loop:
>
>
> struct poll_cb {
> int fd;
> int (*read_cb)(int fd);
> int (*write_cb)(int fd);
> };
> while (poll(&pfd, nr, -1) != -1) {
> for (int i=0; i < nr; i++) {
> if (pfd[i].revent |= POLLIN)
> poll_cbs[i].read_cb(pfd[i].fd);
> if (pfd[i].revent |= POLLOUT)
> poll_cbs[i].write_cb(pfd[i].fd);
>
> if (pfd[i].revent |= POLLHUP)
> pfds[i].fd = -1; // don't poll again
> }
> }
>
>
> Now, in order to emulate the 0-9 file descriptor, we'll associate to a
> "/dev/zero" a read callback function that looks roughly like
>
>
> int written = 0;
> char buf[10];
> int zero_to_nine_cb(int fd) {
> for (int i=0; i< 10; i++) buf[i] = '0' + i;
> close(fd); // note, we never touched the fd
> }
>
>
> But I have to use a file descriptor! Otherwise poll will have no
> reason to call my callback.
> On Jun 19, 2013 7:47 AM, "Shachar Shemesh"
> wrote:
> On 18/06/13 22:16, Elazar Leibovich wrote:
>
> > I'm using it as a fake "always non-blocking" file
> > descriptor.
> >
> >
> > My main libevent-like poll loop looks like:
> >
> >
> > poll(fds)
> > for fd in fds:
> >if fd.revents | POLLIN:
> >fd.read_callback()
> >if fd.revents | POLLOUT:
> >fd.write_callback()
> >
> >
> > Now let's say I want a fake filedescriptor that always reads
> > 'z's (a sleepy fd).
> Why? What you just did was to turn the whole thing into a
> non-sleeping loop. If that's the case, simply call poll with a
> zero timeout, so it won't sleep, and call your callback at the
> end of each loop. No need to artificially introduce another
> file descriptor into the mix.
>
> Mind you, I still don't understand WHY you'd want such a
> thing. This code will, by definition, consume 100% CPU all the
> time.
--
As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and
daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride
Parade events are needed.
As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their
finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
___
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Re: Blu-Ray and Linux
Thanks to all those who replied (both in private and to this mailing list) to my Blu-Ray questions. Turns out that for storing 1TB data, Blu-Ray is not cheaper than an external disk drive of equivalent storage capability. The only advantage of Blu-Ray would be immunity against EMP. Even then, I have no way to ensure that the Blu-Ray media I would buy are certified to be immune against EMP. This explains why the Blu-Ray format has not caught on. So the only reason to buy a Blu-Ray drive would be to view Blu-Ray movies and TV series (such as Dr. Who). It also appears that region locking in Blu-Ray world is not as serious problem as that in DVD world. --- Omer -- As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Blu-Ray and Linux
I am contemplating buying a Blu-Ray drive for connecting to a PC running Linux, and am currently clueless about the availability of desirable features at reasonable price and about Linux support. So if any of you has experience with Blu-Ray under Linux, please share with us your experiences. 1. Is there any CSS (like DVD) that needs to be taken into account? 2. Regions, like in DVD? 3. Are Blu-Ray burners available today for reasonable prices? 4. Are Blu-Ray players and burners currently supported by Linux - for files, audio and video? 5. Any other Linux-related features I should be on the lookout for? Thanks, --- Omer -- As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
SLA nine ninths (was: Re: Cloud Backup)
IMO, the quote does not promise a nine nines assurance. It only says that Amazon Glacier WAS DESIGNED to provide this kind of assurance. On Fri, 2013-05-17 at 11:04 +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 17/05/13 10:13, Ghiora Drori wrote: > > > > > As to reliability: (This is effectively a contract): > > > No, it isn't (see below). > > https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/#highlights > > Quote: "Amazon Glacier is designed to provide average annual > > durability of 99.9% " > > > > If this is not good enough for you too bad. > > > > > When you see someone, anyone, saying such a thing, run. As fast and as > far as you can. > > This level of assurance is called "nine nines"(henceforth 9*9). It > amounts to one thousandth of a second of downtime a year. Amazon is > talking out of their asses in offering it. -- Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins. Your freedom of expression ends where my freedom of expression begins. Your freedom of religion ends where my rights for equality and accessibility begin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: power failure - no keyboard in grub menu
Missing information/Things to try: - How is the keyboard connected to the PC - USB, legacy, builtin(as in a laptop)? - If it is a laptop, did you try to connect another keyboard via USB? - What happens when you try to boot from a LiveCD or DiskOnKey? (Note to myself: is it possible to boot a Secure Boot protected PC from such sources, as necessary to diagnose boot problems?) - Anything "funny" in the BIOS settings? - Can you login, after booting, via ssh? If yes, can you re-install the boot sector by re-running grub-install? Maybe re-install the entire grub package in case its files got corrupted? --- Omer On Wed, 2013-04-24 at 10:03 +0300, Gabor Szabo wrote: > hi > > after a power failure when I try to boot my Ubuntu 12.04 machine it > displays the Grub menu but it > does not react to any keyboard combination I tried. > > > If I press Del earlier, it does get in the BIOS and there I can use > the keyboard, so it does not seem to be a hardware issue, but in the > GRUB menu no reaction. > So this things seems to be stuck. > > Any idea what could I do? -- Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins. Your freedom of expression ends where my freedom of expression begins. Your freedom of religion ends where my rights for equality and accessibility begin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Parts of the internet keep on disappearing on me
More stupid questions: * Did you check maximum packet size and fragmenting? * Does the problematic machine have a "strange" network card (in "strange" I mean a rarely used network card, whose driver has higher probability of having bugs)? * Do firewalls between the problematic machine and the Internet jungle outdoors have any special rules (probably filtering out some kinds of ICMP packets) referring to the problematic machine's IP address? On Sun, 2013-01-20 at 22:01 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 01/20/2013 09:55 PM, yochai wrote: > > > I know it's a basic question, but did you check that you have no issue > > with resolving domains while the computer doesn't work properly ? > The problems happen even if name resolution succeeded. As far as I can > tell, the name resolution problems, when they happen, are a result of > the connectivity problem, and not vice versa. -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disappointed by IBA, again
On Sat, 2012-12-08 at 13:52 +0200, vordoo wrote: > On 2012-12-08 11:08, Steve G. wrote: > > Why don't we ALL send email such as this to these collective of > > dunces, until we can get some satisfaction? > > It is not like the IBA is a global leader in their broadcast > > technology, they are just a bunch of lazy incompetents who can't > > manage to open their services to all sections of society because of > > thoughtlessness and lack of thoughtfulness. > > > Because they are dunces & we don't care that much abut TV, in > particular mostly bad TV. > > If at all start a fight, I would vote for the National Insurance > Institute of Israel, looks to me higher in the "has to be accessible > to all" list. > > Thats my 2c :-) I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Besides, if we win the IBA front, it'll be easier to persuade NII to follow IBA's footsteps by citing IBA as a precedent and letting them ask IBA who were the competent contractors who fixed their Website. --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Is forbidding concurrent ssh sessions a good idea?
The details of what would be broken in such an use case are unimportant. The important thing is that the proposed solution (a new ssh session kills the previous one) is brittle and one can never be sure no pathological use case would be missed and therefore mishandled. And when a server is problematic, anything can happen, including the need to work on it using pathological use cases. My suggestion: configure things so that whenever a new ssh session is started, it'll check for existence of alive sessions. If there are alive sessions, it'll display a warning to the user and prompt him to continue or cancel. Also configure PROMPT_COMMAND (if you use bash) or equivalent (in other shells) so that before executing each interactive command the shell will check for other concurrent ssh connections and warn the user of any such alive connection. The basic idea is to assume that the concurrent ssh users are responsible adults and not try to prevent them from shooting their feet should they decide that the situation calls for this. --- Omer On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 12:35 +0200, Elazar Leibovich wrote: > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Tzafrir Cohen > wrote: > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:05:02AM +0200, Elazar Leibovich > wrote: > > I'm considering to disallow concurrent ssh sessions on a > single-purpose > > production machine (say, DB server). > > > Sessions != shells. > > > Of course, what I care about is the shell, not the transport. > > This would have badly broken my personal use case. > > > While I can certainly see what's broken with it for using a regular > computer, whose stability I do not value much, and while there are > difficulties this may cause, do you see anything specific that will > break in the use case of a production server? -- Voting is almost never a way to reach consensus. Rather, it acknowledges that consensus has not been reached and side-steps further constructive attempts to reach it. Stefano Zacchiroli My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: printer
I have good experience with Brother MFC-490CW. It combines ink jet color printing, photocopying, scanning and FAXing. There is a separate ink cartridge for each color - total 4. --- Omer On Wed, 2012-09-19 at 18:45 +0300, Constantine Shulyupin wrote: > Which multifunctional printer for home (SOHO) would you recommend to > purchase from available currently in Israel? > Which store network? -- Shakespeare Monkeys: cat /dev/urandom | strings -n 16 My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeq's wireless sharing scheme
One possible solution is to daisy chain together two routers. One router will be connected directly to Bezeq, and will be under their control and be configured by them. The other router will be connected to the above router. It will be configured by you, get its DHCP from the first router, and apply its own firewall rules. The rest of your home network will be connected to the second router. Nowadays, a router costs few hundred NIS, so I think that the cost is reasonabe relative to the monthly cost of NGN (and the cost of cellular Internet access when you don't have access to other people's routers). --- Omer P.S.: did anyone already make his home network IPv6-ready (using an IPv6 tunnelling service, if necessary)? On Thu, 2012-09-06 at 14:57 +0300, Geoff Shang wrote: > Hi, > > Please excuse the off-topic post but I figured someone here would probably > know. > > We have a Bezeq NGN router. Bezeq now has a scheme (the name of which I > can't remember) where you can sacrifice a meg of your bandwidth for use by > other Bezeq customers in exchange for said access to other people's > routers all over the country. I've also read that they're trialing access > to an international program of wireless access that usually costs you > money (I believe it's called iPass). This trial is currently set to run > till the end of October but I'm hopeful they'll extend it. > > Now at least with our NGN router, the configuration of our Internet access > has had to be done remotely. I have not managed to find the settings > which enables our Internet conection to work, either before or after > they've configured it, which already makes me a bit uncomfortable. > > I'm quite keen on this program in principle, as it appeals to my socialist > tendancies. > > My only concern is whether the process which configures our router for > this program (which is also performed remotely) will undo the many local > customisations I've made for our local network. Do they just adjust the > relevant settings or do they shove in a configuration file that replaces > the previous one and knocks out any local customisations in the process? > > Since I figured someone here is likely to have already done this, I was > hoping someone here could tell me. -- Never let beliefs, God or Gods incite war and hatred among human beings. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [Job offer] LiveU is seeking Linux developers
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 17:37 +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > The development is utilizing ... pair programming. ... Due to the > extensive use of pair programming, at least reasonable interpersonal > skills is an unmitigated requirement. hm... -- The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by the following formula: pi zz a My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: suggestions sought for a framework for a quick, dirty, really simple GUI prototype
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 10:55 +0300, yochai wrote: > Hey, > > It isn't the first idea that comes to mind but what about SDL ? How about giving an URL to a Website or a Wikipedia article, which describes the specific SDL that you refer to? When searching both resources, Google returned irrelevant links and Wikipedia was rather ambiguous. Thanks, --- Omer -- "Kosher" Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! May the recently deceased "Rabbi" Elyashiv rot in Hell due to his decree forbidding "non-Kosher" cellphones (and his non-opposition to the ruling exempting synagogues from the requirement to be accessible to people with disabilities)! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/ and http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2007/02/04/rabbi-eliashiv-declared-war-on-the-deaf/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: suggestions sought for a framework for a quick, dirty, really simple GUI prototype
Hello Oleg, You may want to split your application into two parts. The engine part (written in C++) will transform the data and write to sys.stdout the updates to the data with keys for identifying the data items. The GUI part will be written in one of the scripting languages, read from sys.stdin and display the values. If I were to do this today, I'd probably use Python with Tkinter or wxWidgets. However, you may want to look into Perl or Tcl/Tk. --- Omer On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 13:04 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: > Hi Oleg, > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:50:26 +0300 > Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I have no - literally zero - experience in creating GUIs of any kind. I > > face the following task now: there is a C++ program that runs on Linux and > > basically receives some packets with some data over the network and does > > some transformations on the data. As a result some data structures are > > created and updated - potentially many times a second, say, a few times a > > second for any *single piece* of data. I need a *prototype* GUI that would > > display and constantly update (parts of) those structures, say strings and > > numbers with colours and labels and stuff. There may be a need for a > > drop-down menu for some configuration - don't know yet. Eventually maybe a > > button or two will be added to invoke some actions. > > > > I figure that the simplest way about it would be to make the GUI run on the > > same Linux machine and write it in C++ for ease of integration. What would > > be the easiest / simplest framework to use? Is it Qt? Ultimate++ ( > > http://www.ultimatepp.org/ - just one of the things I found in a simple and > > brief search)? Since I have no experience it's difficult for me to judge > > quickly. > > This is the first time I recall hearing about Ultimate++ (maybe I have heard > about it before and forgot all about it). > > In any case, I have concentrated most of the usual suspects here: > > http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/portability-libs/#gui > > (I see now that Gtk+/gtkmm/etc. and FLTK are absent from that list - I will > add > them.). > > I happen to think that Qt is very nice (and it is now LGPLed), but I don't > have > a lot of experience doing extensive GUI development with it. You might try > asking Omer Zak about it (he is CCed to this message), because he dealt with > it more extensively in the past. > > > > > What is important here is speed and painless ramp-up to some fairly low > > level. I want to be up and running as fast as possible with as little > > coding as possible. No need for bells and whistles. No need for long term > > maintenance. It is for a throw away demo/prototype - and yes, I am sure it > > (the GUI part) will be thrown away. > > > > Any suggestions / experiences / war stories / whatever? > > > > I should note that I prefer writing GUIs in higher-level, dynamic languages > such as Perl, Python or Ruby, but in your case it may be too much hassle. > Anyway, I think you can go with Qt. > > Regards, > > Shlomi Fish > -- May the holy trinity of $_, @_ and %_ be hallowed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Fri, 2012-06-15 at 11:08 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Omer Zak [... a pathological example was snipped ...] > > In which BiDi reordering would leave the software developer very > > confused if he wants to figure out into which glyphs do 'q' and 'v' get > > translated. Or which glyph was the original for ':'. > > We could have specially-formatted comments, or some other way, to tell > the display engine not to reorder a certain portion of the source > code. Once selective reordering is available, it would be easy enough > to use it in such ways to cover special cases. We already have > similar features via file-local variables, 'coding' tags, etc. > > The main point is that we should not punish 90% of use cases for the > sake of the other 10%. Holding a feature because it only handles 90% > of use cases is a bad call, IMO. With this I agree, as long as it is possible to deal with the other 10% with just one extra command or another equally simple&easy solution. The other BiDi-enabled text editors horribly fail in this. They provide no built-in way to disable reordering of mixed directionality text. This horror is a good reason for me, Nadav etc. to be worried about ability to turn off BiDi reordering at will. --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Fri, 2012-06-15 at 10:41 +0300, Dov Grobgeld wrote:
> as the syntax engine should isolate the bidi reordering of A from that
> of B, there is no problem. It won't be flawless though as e.g. in the
> following example:
>
>string.tr("abcdef",
> "ABCDEF")
>
> where you would like to substitute an 'a' for an 'A' and a 'b' for a
> 'B'. By applying reordering on "ABCDEF" you would loose the visual
> alignment.
Nice example!
It could be complicated further by having strings with mixture of LTR
and RTL glyphs. Such as:
string.tr("abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
"ABC,EFG abc: HIJ>KL dhttp://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
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Re: Emacs & Hebrew
Hello Eli, Since I didn't say it before, I'll say it now. First of all, it is GREAT that Emacs 24 has BiDi support. None of my comments are meant to detract from this major achievement. I am sorry for my part in leading you to feel that we detract in any way from your achievement. On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 23:04 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Omer Zak > > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:27:22 +0300 > > > > Once we start making BiDi rendering mode dependent upon nitpicking > > details of the particular text displayed in a buffer, it is a losing > > game. There are so many special cases, you are bound to lose some > > pathological corner cases. > > You are, in effect, saying that there's no hope for Emacs to support > programming languages, something it already does quite well. Simply, have Emacs continue to support programming languages, just without default BiDi support when editing such text. Since it is anyway good practice to localize strings in separate *.po files, I suggest that all of we invest our nitpicking skills in specifying how to get Emacs to provide excellent support for BiDi rendering of *.po files and similar ones (such as Android's strings.xml). > Because > the same machinery that is used now to find comments and strings, > fontify them correctly, and support various specialized commands for > them -- the same machinery is what is needed to reorder those same > comments and strings. About strings, see above. About comments, let's not bother. I don't think it'll be a good practice to write comments in any language other than English. If anyone wants to do so, caveat emptor. However, there is a question: What if anyone needs to illustrate how a function handles Hebrew text and because of this he needs to write a portion of the function's comment in Hebrew? Would it be reasonable to require the user to insert one of the directionality special characters as a signal for Emacs to turn on visual BiDi ordering mode in that comment (and turn it back off at the comment's end as defined in that programming language)? You ignored other places which might use Hebrew text in programming languages: - Perl's regular expressions (also Python). - Identifiers in computer languages, which allow non-ASCII characters in identifiers. > Maybe I'm missing something, but then please give specific examples > why you think this is a losing game. - Strings may have various and differing formatting characters/phrases (C, LISP and FORTRAN have their differing formatting languages). - HTML/XML fragments - can be part of either strings or comments. > > How, for example, should we handle a Perl code snippet having Nadav > > Har'EL's example, which is embedded in Hebrew text (say, a chapter in a > > Perl textbook written in Hebrew)? > > By putting text properties on each portion of that text guiding > the reordering engine which portions to reorder and with what base > embedding direction. Typically, a textbook with embedded code > snippets has those snippets marked by some markup, like @code..@end code > in Texinfo; these can be used to place the text properties as required. I agree with this approach. With time, algorithms for automatic derivation of text directionality handling for each programming language will become better and better. Questions/points: - How will we let the programmer override, for one place in one file, the automatic derivation as needed to deal with pathological cases? - How reasonable will it be to ask the programmer to insert extra characters into the text just to get it correctly rendered? > In any case, even if the use case you describe is hard to handle, it > doesn't yet mean that we shouldn't handle simpler cases. Emacs is a > programmer's editor, so rendering correctly a program source code is > something that it should do well, even if it has problems with code > embedded in plain text. If MS Studio does it, it would be a shame if > Emacs didn't, don't you think? Strings are not that simple cases (see above). Also, in several cases, the correct way to render a piece of text depends upon various external considrations, of which there is no reasonable way to make Emacs aware. Hence, my preference is toward making it easy for the user to see the text in both logical and visual ordering (not necessarily at the same time). > > The solution that I propose is: > > - Turn off BiDi by default in all programming language major modes. > > That doesn't provide solution for displaying comments and strings in a > legible form. See my comment about *.po files usage above. > > In both cases, provide an easy way to display a marked text snippet in > > the opposite BiDi rendering mode. > > Isn't that what I describe a
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
The discussion below reminds me of the Worse Is Better debate (see, for
example, http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/08/worse-is-better.html).
Once we start making BiDi rendering mode dependent upon nitpicking
details of the particular text displayed in a buffer, it is a losing
game. There are so many special cases, you are bound to lose some
pathological corner cases.
And According to Behdad Esfahbod, the very Unicode BiDi algorithm itself
fails to correctly handle all kinds of corner cases in rendering Arabic
text.
How, for example, should we handle a Perl code snippet having Nadav
Har'EL's example, which is embedded in Hebrew text (say, a chapter in a
Perl textbook written in Hebrew)?
The solution that I propose is:
- Turn off BiDi by default in all programming language major modes.
- Turn on BiDi by default in major modes which handle text.
In both cases, provide an easy way to display a marked text snippet in
the opposite BiDi rendering mode.
- When the default is to turn off the BiDi mode, the display of text
after BiDi rendering can be an uneditable pop-up window.
- When the default is to turn on BiDi mode, then when the user wants to
see the text rendered in logical ordering (without BiDi), he should be
able to edit it in this mode (and with an easy way to insert
directionality modifying/overriding special characters) - I expect it to
be used to clean up places where the BiDi rendering engine messed up the
text.
--- Omer
On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 19:58 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:36:21 +0300
> > From: Nadav Har'El
> > Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >
> > Like I said, try the example Perl instruction of changing aleph into
> > bet:
> >
> > s/א/ב/
> >
> > See how the Bidi algorithm makes it appear as if we're changing the
> > other way around - bet into aleph. I honestly don't see what kind of
> > base direction choice or other high-level protocol can "save" this
> > case. I have to admit I didn't try it on Emacs 24 (which I don't have
> > yet), but did try it on other bidi-capable programs. Maybe there is a
> > workaround in this case, and you can educate me?
>
> This snippet will indeed be rendered confusingly by any bidi-aware
> application (including Emacs 24.1). But the solution is not to turn
> off the reordering wholesale. That's because you do want the
> reordering here:
>
> $word =~ s/ה$/h/o if $opts{"שמור_מפיק"};
>
> and here:
>
> # TODO: resolve the following linguistic question: Is there a difference
> # in the pronunciation and spelling of בדוחפם (when they push, bdoxpam)
> # and לדחופם (to push them, lidxpam)? The first is an subjectization of
< # לדחוף, and the second is a objectization. I do *not* know if the above
> # differentiation is valid or correct, and failed to find references to
> # support my gut feeling. Thus, on the mean while, I produce a waw-less
> # form, as done by rav-millim.
>
> So what is needed is _selective_ reordering: some portions of the
> buffer need to be reordered, while others need to stay in their
> original logical order.
>
> For buffers that hold source code in some programming language, the
> parts to reorder are comments and strings. Precisely what is a
> comment or a string is something each major mode should determine --
> and they all do already. For markup languages such as HTML and XML,
> these are labels and perhaps other things. It's possible that there
> are other types of non-plain text that need similar treatment; I need
> feedback for making sure all the possibilities are covered.
>
> Emacs currently lacks some fundamental infrastructure to support such
> selective reordering, but it is on my todo list, and I will publish
> the basic design principles in the near future. However, my ideas of
> which infrastructure is needed and how to expose it to Lisp
> applications are based on a very limited number of use cases, most of
> them from my daily experience, where I almost never use Hebrew. I
> cannot be sure my experience covers enough turf to be a solid basis
> for supporting non-plain text.
>
> This is where this community should enter the picture. When you find
> a use case where the default reordering doesn't do a good enough job,
> don't just disable reordering. Instead, report those cases as bugs or
> missing features, and if you can, send suggestions for how to solve
> this, so that you and others will be happy. If you just disable
> reordering, we will never be able to get it better.
>
> Thanks in advance.
--
MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
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Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 19:22 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > And since the bidirectional display for Emacs was developed in almost > complete isolation from this community -- not a single input or > response to several design discussions I posted -- why would anyone > assume that an essentially one-man project will not end up being a > complete disaster from usability point of view? At the time I considered helping the effort. However, Emacs is too big piece of software to dive into without investing serious time. > > Bidi is great for writing texts, but since until now writing Hebrew > > text in Emacs wasn't a great idea, people didn't do it. What they > > did do with Emacs is writing code, editing config files, and similar > > things. With those, Bidi is sometimes a distraction, not a desired > > feature - so people want to be able to turn it off. > > How do you know it's a distraction, if you didn't yet try it? I did try to edit code with embedded Hebrew strings using BiDi compliant editors such as Gedit, and it was indeed a disaster. Not because of any usability shortcoming of the editor, but because of the very nature of the BiDi algorithm. Emacs was good for editing such files, and I am glad that Emacs remains this way (by having the option to turn off BiDi algorithm - and I suggest to turn BiDi off by default in all major modes, which are used for programming language supporting Hebrew glyphs in constant strings, such as Python, Java, etc.). --- Omer P.S.: I hope to install Emacs 24 as soon as it is backported to Debian Squeeze or Debian Wheezy. -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 19:15 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: w...@zak.co.il (Omer Zak) > > It is a question of control. > > If you use Emacs, you know that giving the user control is one of > Emacs's main design principles. Great! > > So when one wants to view BiDi text in visual order (the usual case), > > one opens the file in Gedit. And when one wants to see it in logical > > order (e.g. to figure out how the visual order turned out to be so > > messed up), one opened it in Emacs. > > Suppose the visual order is never "messed up" in Emacs -- do you still > need this switch? YES. The Unicode BiDi algorithm is not perfect and it sometimes messes up the visual order of BiDi strings. The BiDi algorithm implementation in Emacs must follow the Unicode standard. Hence, it is inevitable that there'll be some cases, in which the visual order is messed up in Emacs. In fact, not to be messed up in those pathological cases would actually be a bug in Emacs' BiDi algorithm implementation. > > Another use case is by blind computer users, who prefer to use Braille. > > All BiDi Braille text must be laid out in logical order. So even if > > your editor supports Hebrew Braille fonts, they are of no use if the > > text is - too helpfully - printed out in visual order. > > I don't know enough about this, but isn't Hebrew Braille just an > encoding of Hebrew letters using Braille characters? If so, then > Braille characters all have string left-to-right directionality, and > therefore will not be reordered for display by Emacs. No. The same standard encoding is used. Braille is just another font. To do otherwise would render regular Hebrew text inaccessible to the Hebrew speaking blind computer users. This font, however, needs to be rendered by bypassing the BiDi algorithm. > But even if the above does not solve the issue, I would expect people > to request that Emacs does TRT by default with Hebrew Braille, rather > than turning bidi off. What does TRT stand for? Turning BiDi off would be a satisfactory solution in this use case. I envision that sometime in the future, an Emacs startup script be devised, such that swithcing to Hebrew Braille font would by default switch BiDi off. > > > Few years ago, when Abiword people were debugging BiDi support, I asked > > for an option to turn it off for the benefit of blind Hebrew computer > > users. This request was turned down. > > Well, I hope you agree now that Emacs is not Abiword... :-) --- Omer -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 19:05 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You know, it is quite ironic that, having heard about a major Free > Software project which now fully supports bidirectional scripts > including Hebrew, the first thing people here ask is how to disable > that feature. Not whether it works, not if it's any good, not how > well it supports this or that aspect of bidirectional editing -- but > how to turn it off. A sobering experience, I must say. It is a question of control. The problem is that Gedit implemented BiDi support without the option to turn it off. So when one wants to view BiDi text in visual order (the usual case), one opens the file in Gedit. And when one wants to see it in logical order (e.g. to figure out how the visual order turned out to be so messed up), one opened it in Emacs. Another use case is by blind computer users, who prefer to use Braille. All BiDi Braille text must be laid out in logical order. So even if your editor supports Hebrew Braille fonts, they are of no use if the text is - too helpfully - printed out in visual order. Few years ago, when Abiword people were debugging BiDi support, I asked for an option to turn it off for the benefit of blind Hebrew computer users. This request was turned down. --- Omer -- Perrin's Principle of Inclusion: The strength of any system is directly proportional to the power of the tools it provides for the general public. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[Fwd: How to inspect all files inside the Android]
The andr...@hamakor.org.il mailing list seems to be dead. It didn't have any activity for quite a while, and today no one answered my questions below. Forwarded Message From: Omer Zak To: andr...@hamakor.org.il Subject: How to inspect all files inside the Android Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:31:55 +0300 אני צריך גישת קריאה לכל הקבצים שנמצאים בסמארטפון (המודל הספציפי שאני משתמש בו לפיתוח הוא Samsung Galaxy Y 5360T, עם אנדרואיד 2.3.6). מצאתי שהקבצים המעניינים מוגנים לקריאה, וצריך לבצע root לסמארטפון. זה מעורר שתי שאלות: א. האם יש דרך לקרוא את הקבצים ללא פריצה לאנדרואיד? ב. איך לבצע פריצה (root) למודל הספציפי הזה? בקשר ל(ב) מצאתי באמצעות Google כמה מדריכים וכמה תוכנות. השאלה היא האם יש למישהו נסיון באלה ויכול להצביע על מדריך+תוכנה שאני יכול לסמוך עליהם. בתודה מראש, --- עומר -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
Answering myself: I found in the document, immediately after the BiDi support announcement: New buffer-local variable `bidi-display-reordering'. To disable display reordering in a buffer, change this to nil. I suppose it answers my and Nadav's question. --- Omer On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 19:11 +0300, Omer Zak wrote: > On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 18:56 +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: Emacs & Hebrew": > > > The Bidi has landed! > > > > > > Quoting https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/NEWS.24.1 : > > > > Do you know if there's an option to NOT do Bidi, and just show > > everything left-to-right as previously? > > +1 > > It is a very important option. Sometimes I open a mixed language file > in Emacs just to see the logical order of glyphs in a segment which is > visually messed up. > > Will Emacs 24.1 rob me of this use case? -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs & Hebrew
On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 18:56 +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: Emacs & Hebrew": > > The Bidi has landed! > > > > Quoting https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/NEWS.24.1 : > > Do you know if there's an option to NOT do Bidi, and just show > everything left-to-right as previously? +1 It is a very important option. Sometimes I open a mixed language file in Emacs just to see the logical order of glyphs in a segment which is visually messed up. Will Emacs 24.1 rob me of this use case? --- Omer -- Philip Machanick: "caution: if you write code like this, immediately after you are fired the person assigned to maintaining your code after you leave will resign" My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: משחק להפיץ
On Fri, 2012-05-25 at 00:25 +0300, Michael Vasiliev wrote: > On 05/22/2012 02:23 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > > As probably most people on the list do, I try to get friends and > > family off Internet Explorer. Recently on Slashdot there was mention > > of a game that only works in Chrome: > > http://getcrackin.angrybirds.com/ > > > > Angry Birds is a popular game, and just sending this link to people > > gets most of them to install Chrome! So I encourage other list members > > to "suggest" this game to friends and family. Don't even mention > > Chrome, let them discover that detail on their own. > > > So how's getting them off one proprietary insecure browser and onto > another is going to help them? Especially with the all-too-familiar > tactics like "it works only in our browser". All those nitpicking arguments, in my opinion, overlook the white elephant in the saloon: Getting people and Websites off IE6-only support is doing them huge favor. If in doing them this favor, one needs to temporarily renounce the prohibition of "works only in our browser" style behavior (even if it is to uphold W3C standards without IE6 compatibility hacks), let it be. --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: 32 or 64 bit Mandriva
Currently I use 64-bit Debian Squeeze and Debian Wheezy (testing) on few machines, and I am not aware of any problems. However, if you have less than 4GB memory and no plans to add more memory, then you'll get no advantage from moving to 64-bit. Application binaries will also be a bit bigger due to the 64-bit pointers, and since virtual memory is being used, this means also a bit slower work. --- Omer On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 10:25 +0300, Shlomo Solomon wrote: > I'm about to upgrade my Mandriva 2010 to 2011 and want to decide if I should > go to 64 bit. > I know that years ago, when the first 64 bit versions came out there were > alot > of problems (drivers, flash, Firefox ...). In any case, I never bothered to > check each time I updated and stayed with 32. > Today, I Googled the problem and found conflicting opinions. Some say no > problems, others mention Firefox or video cards, and some even claim 32 is > faster than 64 because of smaller memory pointers. My guess is that the > pointer thing is really not significant, but I may be wrong. > To be clear, this is a desktop machine, not used for development or > programing, so compilers, etc aren't relevant. I also don't have >4 Gb of > memory, so the memory addressing advantage of 64 bit is also not relevant. > > Opinions are welcome (especially, not not only) from Mandriva users. -- One cannot argue with a Bayesian filter. Peter Lorand Peres My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Unicode in C
It depends upon your tradeoffs. If you use mostly Western fonts (Latin, Hebrew, etc.) and want to economize on memory use, use UTF-8. However, for Chinese, it costs more memory than it saves. If you need to use Far Eastern fonts and/or have random access for your text, use fixed size wide character encoding (16 bit or 32 bit size). My suggestion for the particular case of libhspell is as follows. 1. Is there any standard API for spellchecking libraries? If yes, try to use it. 2. Otherwise, specify two such APIs - one is UTF-8 based, one is fixed size wide character based. Create two binary variants of the libhspell and optimize each one for the corresponding API. Hopefully, it'll be possible to use essentially the same code base for 16 bit and 32 bit characters. The rationale is that different wordprocessors may need either API, and that they need to run spellchecking as fast as possible. --- Omer On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 15:05 +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: > Hi, I have a question that I was sort of sad that I couldn't readily > find the answer to... > > Let's say I want to create a C API (a C library), with functions which > take strings as arguments. What am I supposed to use if I want these strings > to be in any language? Obviously the answer is "Unicode", but that > doesn't really answer the question... How is Unicode used in C? > > As far as I can see, there are two major approaches to this problem. > > One approach, used in the Win32 C APIs on MS-Windows, and also in Java and > other languages, is to use "wide characters" - characters of 16 or 32 bit > size, and strings are an array of such characters. > > The second approach, proposed by Plan 9, is to use UTF-8. > > I personally like better the UTF-8 approach, because it naturally fits > with C's "char *" type and with Linux's system calls (which take char*, > not any sort of wide characters), but I'm completely unsure that this is > what users actually want. If not, then I wonder, why? > > Some background on this question: People have been complaining for years > that Hspell, and in particular the libhspell functions, use ISO-8859-8 > instead of "unicode". But if one wants to add unicode to libhspell, what > should it be? UTF-8? Wide chars (UTF-16 or UTF-32)? -- $ python >>> type(type(type)) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: /usr/opt instead of /opt?
On Fri, 2012-03-09 at 10:31 +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > Note that /opt is intended for software (and data) that is not a part > of the system/distro, is installed in a non-standard way, etc. This is > something you may want to keep intact, e.g., when you upgrade the base > system. What, then, is the difference between /opt and /usr/local? > You could mount an add-on partition as /usr/opt, of course, but what > would be the point in the context of your question? It is actually > more logical to have /opt than /usr/opt. > > It is not clear to me what your partition scheme is. On the one hand, > you say that /opt is a part of /, on the other hand, it sounds like > you mounted /usr sepaately, not as a part of /. It is possible, of > course, though not very frequent - I'd say the opposite is more > common. My partitioning scheme is as follows: /boot - in a separate physical partition All the following are logical volumes in an encrypted volume group: / - root and everything else (including /etc and /opt) /tmp /usr /var /home My goal is to prevent exhaustion of inodes or blocks in one partition from bringing the whole system down. Hence the separation between /tmp,/var and the other partitions. Is there a system of per-directory quotas for limiting the resources occupied by any directory? If yes, it could replace partitioning the --- Omer -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
/usr/opt instead of /opt?
My current Linux system has a 15GB root partition, which has 6GB files. Turns out that that about 5.5GB are in the /opt directory. My /usr partition is 206GB, of which about 33GB are used. This led me to wonder why is it not recommended in the FSSTND[1] to deprecate /opt[2] and install its contents as /usr/opt (possibly with soft link from /opt to /usr/opt). [1] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ [2] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES --- Omer -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disabling the Suhosin patch by default in Debian Wheezy (Debian Testing)
Very interesting and depressing article. The general problem is one of securing large software packages. On one hand, there are optional security patches for the Linux kernel. Some of them retain their independence for a while. Others get merged into the stock kernel. On the other hand, I don't remember seeing similar problems with Perl or Python. Somehow, they manage to incorporate all security fixes into the standard interpreters, so there is no need for patches like PHP's Suhosin. Why is there a difference among PHP, Linux kernel and Perl/Python handling of security vulnerabilities? P.S.: One must remember that the Free Software/Open Source nature of all those projects allows people to at all develop and apply independent security patches - something whose absence is overwhelming in ecosystems like MS-Windows. --- Omer On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 04:07 +0200, Baruch Siach wrote: > Hi Omer, > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 11:21:38PM +0200, Omer Zak wrote: > > Today, when I upgraded my old PC, which is running Debian Testing > > (currently Debian Wheezy), I was informed of the following: > > > > php5 (5.3.9-4) unstable; urgency=low > > > > * The Suhosin patch is now disabled in the default build. > > > > If you want to re-enable it again for your installation, you can > > set the option PHP5_SUHOSIN=yes in debian/rules and recompile PHP. > > > > -- Ondřej Surý Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:39:36 +0100 > > > > Does anyone know why did the packers decide to reverse the previous > > policy of installing PHP5 with the Suhosin patch by default? > > See http://lwn.net/Articles/479716/ for the full story. > > baruch > -- PHP - the language of the Vogons. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disabling the Suhosin patch by default in Debian Wheezy (Debian Testing)
I asked on the mailing lists after a quick search in http://bugs.debian.org/ failed to yield results. Now I made more determined search and found the following: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=657698 Accoding to it, there are problems with the Suhosin patch and human resources needed to deal with the problems are missing. It is a case of you are doomed if you do, and you are doomed if you don't. At least people need to be aware of this. On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 08:53 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote: > I suspect that digging Debian's usurious tracking site would give you > more definitive answers than speculations on a general mailing lists. > > On Feb 26, 2012 8:42 AM, "Omer Zak" wrote: > Today, when I upgraded my old PC, which is running Debian > Testing > (currently Debian Wheezy), I was informed of the following: > > php5 (5.3.9-4) unstable; urgency=low > > * The Suhosin patch is now disabled in the default build. > > If you want to re-enable it again for your installation, you > can > set the option PHP5_SUHOSIN=yes in debian/rules and recompile > PHP. > > -- Ondřej Surý Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:39:36 > +0100 > > Does anyone know why did the packers decide to reverse the > previous > policy of installing PHP5 with the Suhosin patch by default? > > As far as I know, it would be rather inconvenient for a busy > sysadmin to > re-enable the Suhosin patch in PHP5 and rebuild it. Also, > what'll > happen if a newer version is released for the package > (especially due to > newly discovered security vulnerabilities)? -- PHP - the language of the Vogons. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Disabling the Suhosin patch by default in Debian Wheezy (Debian Testing)
Today, when I upgraded my old PC, which is running Debian Testing (currently Debian Wheezy), I was informed of the following: php5 (5.3.9-4) unstable; urgency=low * The Suhosin patch is now disabled in the default build. If you want to re-enable it again for your installation, you can set the option PHP5_SUHOSIN=yes in debian/rules and recompile PHP. -- Ondřej Surý Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:39:36 +0100 Does anyone know why did the packers decide to reverse the previous policy of installing PHP5 with the Suhosin patch by default? As far as I know, it would be rather inconvenient for a busy sysadmin to re-enable the Suhosin patch in PHP5 and rebuild it. Also, what'll happen if a newer version is released for the package (especially due to newly discovered security vulnerabilities)? --- Omer -- PHP - the language of the Vogons. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Migrating a Linux (Debian Squeeze) system from one HD to another HD
Hello Tzafrir, Thanks for your war story. On Sun, 2012-02-19 at 18:34 +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > update-initramfs -u The twist is that I need to boot some kernel to run it. What I did was: 1. Leave both disks connected to the PC. 2. Boot from the old (500GB) disk. 3. Mount the partitions of the new (2TB) disk on a directory tree originating in /tmp/new_2T, so that the to-be-root partition is mounted on it and other partitions are mounted on subdirectories of the to-be-root. 4. chroot /tmp/new_2T/ update-initramfs -u -k all -v 5. Reboot - this time into the new (2TB) disk. 6. Get stuck because it doesn't find the root and swap partitions. How did you boot your PC to run update-initramfs? --- Omer -- QA People of Curse. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Migrating a Linux (Debian Squeeze) system from one HD to another HD
Thanks, Daniel and Amos, for your suggestions. However they address the wrong part of my problem. All my regular files were already copied to the new hard disk and it was properly set up. The only problem is to boot from it. I successfully set up grub2 to boot from the new disk's boot partition (a physical partition, not under LVM control). For this purpose, I modified grub.cfg. I need to rebuild initrd.img files for all kernels that I have. Yedidiah, you questioned my finding that logical volume paths are hardwired in the initrd images. They are. The relevant files are: /scripts/local-top/cryptroot and /conf/param.conf in the initrd image. According to man mkinitramfs, the file which configures the above is /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf and in practice I see files also in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d I created files which set RESUME=/path/to/swap/volume ROOT=/path/to/root/volume However even after doing so, the boot loader doesn't find them. So I must have been doing something wrong. Any other suggestions? --- Omer On Sun, 2012-02-19 at 23:23 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote: > > On Feb 19, 2012 4:37 PM, "Daniel Shahaf" > wrote: > > > > Omer Zak wrote on Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 04:03:05 +0200: > > > My PC has a 500GB hard disk, and I want to migrate it to a 2TB > hard > > > disk. > > > The new hard disk has been formatted to have two physical > partitions, > > > one serves as /boot and the other is an encrypted LVM volume, > which has > > > its own division into logical partitions. > > > > > > I rsync'ed the old hard disk's contents into the new one > (excluding > > ... > > > 2. Is there any guide about migrating a Debian Squeeze system > inside an > > > encrypted LVM partition from one hard disk to another hard disk? > > > > One thing that jumps to mind: given that the old disk uses LVM too, > you > > could transition the LV's from the old disk to the new one by using > LVM > > tools. > > > > I don't recall the exact commands, but I suppose it's along the > lines of > > "convert the LV to a mirror (with one PV on the small disk and one > PV on > > the new one), then tell LVM to retire the old disk's PV's." > > No need for that. Vgmove then remove the old PV from the VG before > disconnecting it. > > > > > HTH. I'm not sure how this interacts with the boot parts of the > > equation or with encrypted partitions. -- Jara Cimrman - one of the unsung geniuses of the world - scientist, engineer, inventor and literary critic. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Migrating a Linux (Debian Squeeze) system from one HD to another HD
My PC has a 500GB hard disk, and I want to migrate it to a 2TB hard disk. The new hard disk has been formatted to have two physical partitions, one serves as /boot and the other is an encrypted LVM volume, which has its own division into logical partitions. I rsync'ed the old hard disk's contents into the new one (excluding - /lib/init/rw/*** - /dev/shm/*** - /proc - /sys - /tmp/*** - /var/lock/*** - /var/tmp/*** - /cdrom/*** - /media/*** - /etc/fstab ). I edited /etc/fstab in the new hard disk to specify the correct partitions. Then I ran grub-install on the new hard disk using: chroot /tmp/new_2T grub-install /dev/sdb where the new hard disk's /boot and logical partitions are mounted on subdirectories of /tmp/new_2T, and the new hard disk itself is /dev/sdb. However the logical volume paths in the old hard disk and the new one differ. It turns out that the kernel and initrd images in the old hard disk have the old logical volume paths hardwired in them. So when trying to reboot the PC from the new hard disk, it doesn't find the root filesystem. The failing script is /scripts/local-top/cryptroot (/scripts/local-top template can be found in /etc/initramfs). So it seems that I need somehow to recreate the initrd.img's contents. I may have missed also other things. Questions: 1. How to recreate initrd.img's appropriate for the new hard disk? 2. Is there any guide about migrating a Debian Squeeze system inside an encrypted LVM partition from one hard disk to another hard disk? In conclusion: I am dismayed at the fact that migrating Linux systems, which used to be a simple affair (like MS-DOS), is now complicated (like versions of MS-Windows after Windows 95). Thanks, --- Omer -- Jara Cimrman. A name to remember. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
For me, clicking on the link below (www.beer-sheva.muni.il) worked a moment ago (25 Jan 2012 09:35) on Firefox (Debian Squeeze Iceweasel 3.5.16). The above redirects to http://www.beer-sheva.muni.il/openning.asp?Lang=1 and it is what I get to see. On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 08:49 +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 08:38:22AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > > Can anyone reach beer-sheva.muni.il on Linux? I tried in Chrome and in > > Firefox, I get a timeout as if the server is not running. When I try > > in Firefox on the wife's Windows7 laptop, the site comes right up. I > > have not tried to spoof a Windows UI string, but can anyone confirm > > that the site isn't responding to Linux browsers? > > Tried both chrome on linux and IE on XP, from two different connections, > neither worked. dns lookups show that there is no A record for it, there > is one A record for www.beer-sheva.muni.il, and telnet to port 80 on it > does not manage to connect. Are you certain that it worked for you on > Windows? On the specific configuration I tried, IE searched google for > it after failing. Perhaps that's what you saw? --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Current state of VirtualBox?
Today Debian Squeeze got automatic upgrade from VirtualBox 4.0.14 to 4.0.16 and I noticed that there is also VirtualBox 4.1.8. I haven't been using VirtualBox for several months, after having read warnings that its kernel modules may corrupt memory and/or filesystems. I'd like to resume use of VirtualBox, so I am asking what is the current health status of VirtualBox, and how safe is it for use on my main workhorse PC. --- Omer -- Never let beliefs, God or Gods incite war and hatred among human beings. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: HTML Mail (was: Re: Which technology should I learn to do this?)
[bottom posted, contrary to my usual custom] On Sun, 2012-01-08 at 09:15 +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: > On Sun, Jan 08, 2012 at 08:50:45AM +0200, Dotan Shavit wrote: > > ___ > > Linux-il mailing list > > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > Dear Linux-IL subscribers, > > Should I officially give up and declare text email as a thing of the > past? Should I move to some graphical mail client that displays and > composes html mail? I tried Thunderbird a few times, for a few days > each, over the last 5 or so years, and always went back to mutt. > > I see on this list some people that still use mutt. I also have a > feeling that some of the past users of mutt on this list moved to html > mail clients. > > I do not intend to start a flame war. Feel free to ignore, give advice, > share your struggles, etc... My policy is to send text E-mail (except when I need the extra features of HTML E-mail) and use a graphical client (Evolution, in my case) to accept both text and HTML E-mails. --- Omer P.S.: How to export all folders from Evolution to Icedove and Thunderbird? -- "Kosher" Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/ and http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2007/02/04/rabbi-eliashiv-declared-war-on-the-deaf/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Silly Debian E-mail question
(Bottom posting) On Sun, 2011-12-25 at 22:23 -0500, Guy Tetruashvyly wrote: > > On 12/19/2011 11:20 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > > > The problem: > > How to actually send the file? > > If I use my regular E-mail client (Evolution), and attach the bug > > report > > to my message, Debian BTS does not accept it. > > I have also mutt and bsd-mailx installed but I don't know if and how > > to > > use them to send the file. > > Greetings, Omer , I probably misunderstood your question, but just in > case I didn't :) - and all you're looking for is to paste the contents > of a > txt file to a mutt email, here is what I use. > > In the below 1st example, The content of : /$PATH/$TO/$FILE/ will be > pasted as the Email message. the -a option is ... optional. > > > > mutt -s $SUBJECT $RECIPIENT < /$PATH/$TO/$FILE/$WHICH/$WILL > -a /$Path/$To/$AttachmentFile > > > in more specific terms : > > mutt -s f...@bar.com < /etc/network/interfaces > -a /etc/network/mynetwork_interfaces.txt The file which I want to send already contains the subject and recipient. It is a complete message, ready for transmission to my E-mail provider's SMTP server. I cannot just delete the header lines, because the entire file is a MIME multi-part file (the message has an attachment). So I want to just have the file delivered to my SMTP server, without any modifications. I did not find the way to do it - it's whatever mutt is doing after having prefixed its stdin's contents with the header (recipient, subject, date, etc.). Thanks anyway, --- Omer -- Bottom posters are filthy heretics and infidels and ought to be burned on the stake after having been tarred, feathered and having rotten eggs thrown at their faces! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Silly Debian E-mail question
On Mon, 2011-12-19 at 23:42 +0200, Dotan Shavit wrote: > On 12/19/2011 11:20 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > > What should I RTFM in order to find how to actually send the file? > man mail > > # Can you be more specific? I see no way to get bsd-mailx (described by man mail) to skip the To: prompt and some other stuff, and accept the contents of the file provided by me as the full E-mail message. Thanks, --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Silly Debian E-mail question
I have two PCs in a LAN. One PC has Debian Squeeze installed on it, and the other - Debian Wheezy. The Debian Squeeze PC has regular Internet access. The Debian Wheezy PC is blocked from sending E-mail to the Internet. I need to report a bug in Debian Wheezy. I ran reportbug on the blocked PC. Of course, it cannot send E-mail directly to the Debian bug tracking system. I used the appropriate option to save the bug report as a file. The file is ready for transmission to my ISP's SMTP server - it has all the appropriate headers and MIME encodings etc. The problem: How to actually send the file? If I use my regular E-mail client (Evolution), and attach the bug report to my message, Debian BTS does not accept it. I have also mutt and bsd-mailx installed but I don't know if and how to use them to send the file. What should I RTFM in order to find how to actually send the file? The reportbug file begins as follows. >> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===1048519724==" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> From: Omer Zak >> To: Debian Bug Tracking System >> Subject: aptitude: Misreporting of DL Size >> Message-ID: <20111218173009.32124.91794.report...@c2.home.zak.co.il> >> X-Mailer: reportbug 5.1.1 >> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:30:09 +0200 >> >> This is a multi-part MIME message sent by reportbug. >> >> >> --===1048519724== >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Content-Disposition: inline >> >> Package: aptitude Thanks, --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Unix History: Why does hexdump default to word alignment?
On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 12:51 +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > IIRC, all x86 processors > provided BCD-related instructions (conversions to and from), but I > think even then it was slower than straightforward binary arithmetic. > It was slow because the machine instructions were for single bytes > only, but not for wider objects. I do not remember if it was in any > way related to 8087 math co-processors. The 8086 had several instructions for adjusting results of arithmetic operations to conform to BCD values. The 8087 had the FBLD and FBSTP for loading and storing BCD values. --- Omer -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Odyssey of trying to convert several utf-8 encoded text files into MS-Word *.doc files
Hello Matan, Thanks for the suggestion. The unoconv version 0.3-6 package in Debian Squeeze still depends upon some OpenOffice packages, which conflict with some LibreOffice packages, which I don't want to uninstall. However, I do have the Python uno module installed. I was referred by LibreOffice's help (search term 'API', item 'Programming LibreOffice') to http://api.openoffice.org/ and from there found a code snippet for importing a plain text encoded with a given character set at http://codesnippets.services.openoffice.org/Writer/Writer.ImportingAPlainTextEncodedWithAGivenCharacterSet.snip However, the code itself is missing - seems to have been removed at some time (nevermind the fact that it is said to be written in OOBasic rather than in Python/Java/CPP). Yet another possibility is to write a script in OOBasic, to be invoked from within LibreOffice. At the moment, conversion into HTML seems to be easier for me (I found that AbiWord can import an HTML file with suitable font declarations, and set the font correctly) - as it doesn't require me to cram yet another programming language (one less yak to shave!). --- Omer On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 00:31 +0200, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011, Omer Zak wrote: > > > I need to convert several utf-8 encoded text files into MS-Word *.doc > > format. So I need to accomplish it from the command line. > > In Linux, it is easy to find tools to convert from MS-Word formats into > > text, but a Google search failed to yield converters in the opposite > > direction. > > > > I tried two word processors: LibreOffice and AbiWord. > > > > LibreOffice (version 1:3.4.3-3~bpo60+1 in Debian Squeeze - yes, it's a > > backport) allows you to perform the conversion, but you must go through > > a GUI. I did not find instructions how to accomplish this from the > > command line. > > Libreoffice has a headless mode, where it accepts commands from a pipe. > unoconv is a nice command line front end for this mode. > > Libreoffice also has --convert-to option. Try libreoffice --help to see > all options. -- Did you shave a yak today? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Odyssey of trying to convert several utf-8 encoded text files into MS-Word *.doc files
I need to convert several utf-8 encoded text files into MS-Word *.doc format. So I need to accomplish it from the command line. In Linux, it is easy to find tools to convert from MS-Word formats into text, but a Google search failed to yield converters in the opposite direction. I tried two word processors: LibreOffice and AbiWord. LibreOffice (version 1:3.4.3-3~bpo60+1 in Debian Squeeze - yes, it's a backport) allows you to perform the conversion, but you must go through a GUI. I did not find instructions how to accomplish this from the command line. AbiWord (version 2.8.2-2.1 in Debian Squeeze) knows to convert documents from the command line, but to correctly identify utf-8 encoded text files, you must prefix them by BOM (0xEF 0xBB 0xBF), which is not difficult to do from the command line (or by a short Python script). However I didn't find how to specify the font and without specifying the font, AbiWord selects a gibberish font. AbiWord has the --inp-props command line option, but it expects its argument as a "CSS String" (which is not a true CSS fragment). Nothing I gave as argument seemed to be recognized. Illegal strings did not yield any error message. The next thing that I'll try is to convert from text into HTML and then try to import HTML into the above word processors. Did anyone else succeed in performing such conversions? If yes, how were they accomplished? --- Omer -- Did you shave a yak today? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[OFFTOPIC] Medical practitioners and building trade people vs. software developers (was: Re: Goodbye, Lingnu)
On Tue, 2011-11-15 at 15:04 +0200, Tom Balazs wrote: > 2. The customer is often not able to understand the product or service > he is buying. That means they can't really understand whether or not a > job was done well. This is true in many fields. I am curious to know how do people in the building trades and in the medical area manage to attract high payment in exchange for excellence. How do they differ from software developers, who are often forced to race to the bottom? In those areas, there is the element of client not being fully cognizant of the product or service he is buying (alebit this element is not as pronounced in the building trades). --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[OFFTOPIC] Finding the next lucrative niche (was: Re: Goodbye, Lingnu)
We need some process for identifying the next niche to pursue, taking into account current skill set, customers/contacts, and effort&expense incurred in acquiring the competencies relevant for the next niche. Did anyone blog about such a process? On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 14:51 +0200, E L wrote: > What can you do? In our field you need to stay with your hand on the > pulse. > Yesterday it was clouds, now html5 and phone applications tomorrow > something else. > You either swim with the flow or drown. > > Ely > > 2011/11/14 Shachar Shemesh > On 11/14/2011 01:36 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > > The business does not exist today because we were not successful > > in locating another good niche once the original niche disappeared > > (which was far from taking us by surprise). > > > But this is precisely why this doesn't work. Every niche will > disappear, sooner or later. -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[OFFTOPIC] Disappearing niches clarification (was: Re: Goodbye, Lingnu)
On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 14:15 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 11/14/2011 01:36 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > > The business does not exist today because we were not successful > > in locating another good niche once the original niche disappeared > > (which was far from taking us by surprise). > > > But this is precisely why this doesn't work. Every niche will > disappear, sooner or later. To clarify: The disappearance of the first niche was anticipated. It was not the reason for the business's demise. The reason was that we were not successful in finding another, suitable for us, niche. --- Omer -- Eli Marmor's Law: netiquette forbids people from replying "I agree with you" to messages in mailing lists, skewing discussions in favor of the troublemaker type of dissenters. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Goodbye, Lingnu
Nadav Har'El's thoughts below make a lot of sense. Eliyahu Goldratt, in his books "It's not luck" and "Critical Chain" discussed the difference in value to the provider (cost+) and to the client (which has no relationship with the value to the provider); and the value of finishing a project early. If I were having such a business today, I'd specialize in certain areas and accumulate expertise, scripts, tools, know-how in those areas, and cultivate the ability to finish early&reliably projects in those areas. Also, the prices for those projects won't be direct function of the skull hours spent on them. Why didn't I actually start such a business? I need a partner who is people's person, and was unsuccessful in finding such a person. About ten years ago I worked with such a person and we were successful as long as the market niche, served by us, lasted. And we indeed invested in accumulating expertise and tools and we successfully aimed at shortening turnaround times of the projects serving that particular niche. The business does not exist today because we were not successful in locating another good niche once the original niche disappeared (which was far from taking us by surprise). [DISCLAIMER: Yes, in the above I am self-promoting and am on the lookout for the missing ingredients for a successful business.] --- Omer On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 13:14 +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: > It occurs to me that if 250 shekels per hour sounds (as you explain in > your blog) too much, then maybe the problem isn't with this number, but > with the basic idea of charging for hours. > > Let me explain: Imagine that I am looking for a consultant to set up > a mail server in my company, to create a online store for me, or > whatever (you can replace those examples by something closer to your > domain). Imagine that I find company A, and company B, as possible > candidates, both highly recommended (so I can assume the quality of > their work is similar). I'd be really naive to only care about the price > per hour that each company charges - maybe A takes 250 shekels/hour, but > can do the job in 10 hours, and company B takes 100 shekels/hour, but will > take 100 hours to do the same job? Wouldn't I be stupid to pick company > B just because of their lower hourly rate? > > So maybe the key to winning over your competitors isn't to charge less > per hour, but rather to complete the job in less time. (you can of > course hide this will all sorts of creative marketing) > > You can complete the job in less time if you stop thinking about selling > time, and instead think about which jobs you can take which will allow you > to *reuse* things you learned, and code you wrote, while working for previous > clients. For example, if you just finished setting up a web front for a > grocery store - and you developped all sorts of scripts and expertese to do > so - go and find another grocery store as a client, because you can now do > their job in half the time. > > Of course, this is intuition. I didn't actually try to run a company like > this, and didn't put my money where my mouth is. So maybe I'm all wrong here. -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Switching a newly-installed PC from Gnome to XFCE?
Thanks, Ari (and also Oleg Goldshmidt). As it happened, I installed SLiM (without removing Gnome packages) on the laptop and it worked - enabled access to several desktops, XFCE being one of them. I think there was a dialog to select the default login manager during installation. Failed attempts: 1. I also had a look over /usr/share/doc/gdm3 - but the documentation there was not useful. There is no gdm3-doc package in Debian Squeeze. 2. There are configuration files in /etc/gdm3 but I was not successful in figuring them out or whether there is an option to enable the feature of choosing a desktop. 3. From Gnome main menu: Applications/System Tools/GkDebconf (Why the hell is there no right click menu item to display the command line actually invoked when selecting a menu item?!) starts GkDebconf. I choose Section 'gnome' and from it I select package 'gdm3'. It then asks for root password and...cycles back to the above package selection dialog. By the way, in Debian Wheezy you can install gdm (rather than gdm3, which is installed by default in Debian Squeeze) and it then allows you to switch desktops. --- Omer On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 12:36 -0700, Ari Becker wrote: > If you don't want to use GNOME then you should remove the GNOME and > GDM packages. > > Try installing SLiM instead as a login manager for > XFCE. Decent introductions are available, as is the Debian package > information. Just remember to edit your /etc/inittab appropriately, > i.e. make sure you boot to run-level 5 and load slim: > > x:5:respawn:/usr/bin/slim >& /dev/null (copy-pasted from Slim > documentation). > > > so that you don't install slim and end up booting gdm anyways. > > > -Ari Becker > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > I made a new installation of Debian Squeeze. > Debian installer, by default, installed Gnome. > I would like to economize on RAM usage, so I installed the > packages of > XFCE. > > However, after installation, I see in gdm's login screen no > way to > switch desktops from Gnome to another desktop (such as KDE or > XFCE). I > remember that there used to be such a dialog in the past. > > Currently, in the new installation, the gdm login screen has > buttons > only for shutdown options and for turning on accessibility > provisions. > > Can anyone please remind how to access the desktop switching > dialog from > gdm's login screen (if possible at all)? > Which additional package/s do I need to install to get this > dialog? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Switching a newly-installed PC from Gnome to XFCE?
I made a new installation of Debian Squeeze. Debian installer, by default, installed Gnome. I would like to economize on RAM usage, so I installed the packages of XFCE. However, after installation, I see in gdm's login screen no way to switch desktops from Gnome to another desktop (such as KDE or XFCE). I remember that there used to be such a dialog in the past. Currently, in the new installation, the gdm login screen has buttons only for shutdown options and for turning on accessibility provisions. Can anyone please remind how to access the desktop switching dialog from gdm's login screen (if possible at all)? Which additional package/s do I need to install to get this dialog? Thanks, --- Omer Zak -- The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by the following formula: pi zz a My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
For people who use the Scheme programming language
Three years ago I developed a library (PyGuile) for invoking Python modules from Scheme (run under the Guile interpreter) scripts. Blog articles: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/category/pyguile/ Download: http://www.zak.co.il/a/itches/pyguile If you write in Scheme, I'll appreciate if you let me know if and which additional features in PyGuile would make it useful for you in your work. --- Omer -- There is no IGLU Cabal because My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[OFFTOPIC] The word 'davka' is complicated to translate (was: Re: Thunderbird mailer)
There is a special blog article devoted to this subject: http://elephant.org.il/translate/davka.html --- Omer On Thu, 2011-08-18 at 21:38 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote: > On Thursday 18 August 2011 21:06:40 Dotan Cohen wrote: > > [1] How to say דווקא in English? > > The word is obviously related to e,g, דייק, and that's the clue. How to > translate it depends on the sentence, but I usually find that it fits > with "precisely", or "specifically", or something similar. This doesn't > work with a sentence like למה אתה מתנהג כל כך דווקא, only because that's > folk syntax, and the meaning has drifted. -- If verbal consent is not obtained in triplicate, it is date rape. Asking permission constitutes harassment. My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.htmlDelay is the deadliest form of denial.C. Northcote Parkinson My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[RMS11] Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 22:58 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote: > Arguably, he alone (in concert with his Palestinian hosts), is the one > limiting free speech. This statement does not correspond to the facts of the case. The principle that RMS is violating is not the principle of free speech. The principle being violated is that of communications and cooperation in pursuit of a worthwhile endeavor (academic research or Free Software development) overriding political differences. Granted, the principle of academic research/Free Software development cooperation could force us to swallow rather giant foul-tasting frogs. Such as hypothetical cooperation with the Hizbollah in development and perfection of FriBidi or an hypothetical collaboration with Nazis in a project of developing a Free genealogical software, with accompanying database of freely-available genealogical information. --- Omer -- Palestinians did not firmly and vocally and strongly denounce the Hannover attack (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/german-youths-attack-jewi_n_623922.html) but rather supported the attack, even though it is yet another proof why Jews need their own country in which they can live safely. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Hebrew encoding question
What happens if you set the E-mail from Hamakor to regular (non-digest) mode? I receive my E-mail from Hamakor this way, and so far had no problems with encodings. >From inspection of the headers of an E-mail message which I received from discussi...@hamakor.org.il: 1. It does not explicitly declare its encoding. 2. When my E-mail software is set to default encoding, it reads correctly the E-mail. Likewise, when the encoding is forced to be utf-8. When I forced it to use another encoding, the E-mail message consisted of gibberish. Thus, Hamakor's E-mails are encoded in utf-8 but don't explicitly declare this encoding. Therefore I suspect that Mordechai's E-mail by Web provider's default encoding is different from utf-8, so any E-mail not explicitly declaring itself to be encoded in utf-8 would be garbled en route. --- Omer On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 21:45 +0300, Mordecha Behar wrote: > I just got another digest email from Hamakor, and once again it is > full of question marks. > This usually means that a different encoding is being used. > However, my browser (and hence email client) is using Unicode (UTF 8). > When I tried viewing in various encodings (Hebrew IBM 862, Hebrew > Windows 1255, Hebrew ISO 8859-8 and 8859-8-1)I still just got question > marks. > So, what encoding is Hamakor using to send these emails? And why > aren't they using anything standard? -- "Kosher" Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/ and http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2007/02/04/rabbi-eliashiv-declared-war-on-the-deaf/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Hebrew fonts on digital readers
I am using the eMachines eM350 netbook for this purpose. Except for short battery life (3 hours or so), it does the job for me. Office Depot sells those netbooks for 1300NIS, which is a bit more expensive than digital readers (typically 800-1200NIS), but it is a general purpose computer. And I was successful in installing Linux on it. --- Omer On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 14:16 -0600, Steve G. wrote: > I tried converting a text document containing Hebrew and Spanish to > the Kindle format. The Spanish was readable, but the Hebrew was junk. > Although I can read html in Hebrew on the Kindle, it does not let me > read html documents that are stored locally. I contacted Amazon, and > was informed that Hebrew is not currently supported on the Kindle, > though they may be working on it. I can convert the document to pdf, > which I CAN read on the Kindle, but then I can't use a dictionary for > the Spanish, which is my goal in transferring the document. > > > My question is: is there another digital reader (sony, barnes and > noble, borders, whoever), which can handle Hebrew charset? I am NOT > talking about iPad or a similar devices, as they are much too > expensive, and of course any netbook and up can read the documents in > multiple formats. -- Bottom posters are filthy heretics and infidels and ought to be burned on the stake after having been tarred, feathered and having rotten eggs thrown at their faces! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: memory card reader is not mounting
1. Do you have a memory card inside the reader (before or after connecting the reader to the PC)? 2. Did you expect the memory card to be automounted? 3. Does manual mount work? 4. Do the various udev scripts work properly to create the appropriate /dev special file? --- Omer On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 22:09 +0300, Gabor Szabo wrote: > Running Ubuntu 10.10 I connected a Zeikos memory card reader via usb 2.0 > > in /var/log/messages I get the following but the disk is not mounted. > > Jun 16 21:55:08 localhost kernel: [475372.063775] usb 2-1: new high > speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 20 > Jun 16 21:55:08 localhost kernel: [475372.214741] scsi23 : usb-storage 2-1:1.0 > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.211970] scsi 23:0:0:0: > Direct-Access USB Mass Storage Device PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.212487] sd 23:0:0:0: > Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0 > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.215088] sd 23:0:0:0: [sdb] > 32372736 512-byte logical blocks: (16.5 GB/15.4 GiB) > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.216263] sd 23:0:0:0: [sdb] > Write Protect is off > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.219840] sdb: sdb1 > Jun 16 21:55:09 localhost kernel: [475373.222703] sd 23:0:0:0: [sdb] > Attached SCSI removable disk > > > I wonder what is the problem and I how could I access the memory card? -- May the holy trinity of $_, @_ and %_ be hallowed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[OFFTOPIC] Re: Richard Stallman answer to me
On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 07:40 +0300, Uri Even-Chen wrote: > > I agree with Richard Stallman's views about the Israeli occupation. The issue here is not opposing the Israeli occupation but about the academic boycott. Would you find it to be acceptable for the Palestinians to use ABC (atomic/biological/chemical) weapons to fight the Israeli occupation "because they are too weak to fight using conventional means"? Academic boycott is as illegitimate (even if it does not immediately cause people to die). -- Palestinians did not firmly and vocally and strongly denounce the Hannover attack (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/german-youths-attack-jewi_n_623922.html) but rather supported the attack, even though it is yet another proof why Jews need their own country in which they can live safely. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Richard Stallman answer to me
Given the circumstances, I think that the most honorable thing that can be done is to have the organizers of the non-university talk - cancel it and explain to him the evilness of academic boycotts of universities which do not themselves practice discrimination or censorship of the opinions which he advocates. --- Omer On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 03:05 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote: > On Monday 06 June 2011 at 02:54:12 (GMT+2) Hetz Ben Hamo > wrote: > > > Hi People, > > > > I just got this answer from Richard Stallman. > > > > Apparently, he *does* plan to give a talk in Israel, but not in any > > Israeli university. > > I actually find this pretty weird, considering that most of the > > universities in Israel are full of staff from the left-side of the > > political map (TAU for exmaple?) > > It's not weird at all. The screwballs who participate in boycotts are > not at all interested in details, but are grabbed by buzzwords, e.g. > "Israel". Since they themselves are students or faculty in universities, > it occurs to them to boycott other universities, never considering that > universities are precisely where they are most likely to find their > soul-mates. It's all completely logical. Compare, for example with the > British situaation, where calls for boycott originate almost exclusively > in the universities and labor unions, i.e., in all the strongholds of > the left. Left = Gauche in French, Sinister in Latin. There is probably > a language somewhere in which Left = Stupid. > -- Palestinians did not firmly and vocally and strongly denounce the Hannover attack (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/german-youths-attack-jewi_n_623922.html) but rather supported the attack, even though it is yet another proof why Jews need their own country in which they can live safely. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sponsorship?
On Sun, 2011-05-29 at 12:50 +0300, amichay p. k. wrote: > Even if we don't find a company willing to finance the visit we can > definitely raise funds for this purpose. > > By the way, if Israel would pay for the visit I demand that he will > not give a talk for the Palestinians. NO WAY! WE SHALL NOT STOOP TO THE PALESTINIANS' LEVEL! I agree with those who suggested to raise funds to cover Stallman's transportation costs in lieu of the Palestinians, and then let him lecture also to the Palestinians - no strings attached. Our issue is one of the academic boycott, not of petty monetary quibbles. --- Omer > 2011/5/29 Hetz Ben Hamo > Hi, > > > I just read this morning that Richard Stallman will not come > to Israel due to pressure from the Palestinians who sponsor > his visit. > You can read it > here: > http://www.calcalist.co.il/internet/articles/0,7340,L-3519167,00.html?dcRef=ynet > > > My question: I'm pretty sure that hotel + ticket is not such a > huge price. Is there any company that can sponsor his visit, > so we might actually see mister Stallman here after all? -- Linux Mint is insecure by design as it won't accept contributions (bug reports) from Israelis who choose to defend themselves against suicide bombers: http://eclelef.blogspot.com/2009/05/palestine_03.html My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
eMachines EM350 - Linux compatibility and experiences
I have the need for a netbook, whose basic use will be as an E-book reader and for notetaking. Today I saw the eMachines EM350 netbook in Office Depot, advertised for 1299NIS. Before making the decision to buy it, I checked a bit in the Internet. 1. People reported success in installing Linux (Ubuntu 10.4) on it, except for a problem with the built-in microphone (which I don't plan to use). 2. Its graphic processor is Intel GMA 3150, which is claimed to be supported by X-Window under Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Linux). 3. The wireless is Broadcom 802.11n (the netbook's MS-Windows XP Control Panel/Hardware Manager did not identify the exact chipset being used). Broadcom claims to support Linux (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2486458776.html). 4. The battery is supposed to be able to power the netbook for 4 hours between charges. Before going forth and plunking down my money, I'd like to know about other people's experience with this netbook and whether they know about better alternatives. Thanks, --- Omer -- More proof the End of the World has started. Just saw this online: I think it's beginning! Ten minutes ago there was a group of people waiting at the bus stop outside my house. Now, they're all gone! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Are Android questions on topic here?
As one of the most vociferous deniers of the existence of the IGLU Cabal (and whether it is the same as the LINUX-IL Cabal or different from it), let me chime in with my opinion. First, let's make sure there is not already an Android-IL mailing list. If yes, make its existence known and hammered into the minds of the Android-infected Linux-IL participants. If not: Let's make Android questions on-topic on the Linux-IL mailing list as long as they don't deal (much or deeply) with Java. Then, Once the list gets swamped with Android related questions to the annoyance of Android-less people (such as me, for the time being), we'll revisit this decision and have someone create an Android-IL mailing list (if such a list doesn't already exist). --- Omer On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 13:41 +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 11/05/11 13:01, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:56:28PM +0300, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > > > >> Question to the (non-existent) LINUX-IL cabal: this is a list for > >> technical questions on Linux. Some Android issues have been discussed > >> here. Are technical Android discussions officially on topic or off > >> topic? Can we decide once and for all? > >> > > Isn't Android Linux? > In a nutshell - no. It is a completely different set of APIs, with some > Linux kernel deep underneath. > > Why is there a question? > Because while the list does tolerate the occasional "I'm trying to do > this impossible thing in Linux", and there is even an open source > project[1] by, among others, yours truly, that was triggered by > precisely such a question[2], I'm not sure we would like to hear a bunch > of "How do I save my Layout when my Activity is destroyed due to > landscape to portrait orientation". > > Did anyone ever try to > > imply that Android is off-topic? > > > I think Oleg might be erring on the side of caution here, but I think > it's a good side to err to. > > BTW, once upon a time it was defined as "Linux AND Israel". > > > Good point. I hereby revise my previous answer to include BiDi related > Android issue as on topic as well :-) > > Shachar > > 1 - http://sourceforge.net/projects/privbind/ > 2 - http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg48799.html -- There is no IGLU Cabal because My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to check initrd's contents? (was: Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?)
On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 15:30 +0300, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: > On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 03:18:08PM +0300, Omer Zak wrote: > > My kernel is configured to have AHCI as a module: > > CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=m > > > > However I understand that it means that this module is needed also in > > the initrd image. How can I check which modules made it to the initrd > > image last time it was rebuilt? > > something like > > mkdir /some/temp/dir > cd /some/temp/dir > gzip -dc < /boot/my-initrd | cpio -idm > > That is, assuming it's a ramfs-based initrd and not an old-style > filesystem image. Thanks, my initrd images do include the module /lib/modules//kernel/drivers/ata/ahci.ko So all I need to do is to modify the appropriate BIOS setup setting - will wait until next reboot opportunity! --- Omer -- Eli Marmor's Law: netiquette forbids people from replying "I agree with you" to messages in mailing lists, skewing discussions in favor of the troublemaker type of dissenters. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
How to check initrd's contents? (was: Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?)
Hello Gilboa, On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 09:43 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > 1. Kernel version? > > Standard Debian Squeeze kernel: > > $ uname -a > > Linux c4 2.6.32-5-vserver-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Mar 7 23:14:47 UTC 2011 > > x86_64 GNU/Linux > > I'd consider trying a kernel from debian-testing or rolling your own. > As I said, at least in my experience, the interface "feel" of 2.6.38 is > -far-, -far- better than previous kernels. The shell "feel" is OK - when I want to open another shell, one opens promptly (does not need any disk I/O as the relevant executables are still cached in memory thanks to already-open shells; and there are idle cores). So I am not in hurry to install a more recent kernel. > > > 2. Are you sure your SATA is in AHCI mode? > > > (Simply type: $ find /sys/devices | grep ahci) > > > > My SATA indeed runs in non-AHCI mode. > > > > The question now is how to configure it to run in AHCI mode? > > According to the Wikipedia article > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Host_Controller_Interface, I need > > to modify a BIOS setting and maybe create a new initrd image. > > Another source: > > http://www.techmetica.com/howto/sata-ahci-mode-bios-setting.-what-does-it-do/ > > > > I can handle the BIOS setting but how to check whether a new initrd > > image is needed, and if necessary create it? > > First you'll need to enable it in your BIOS. (Usually under SATA > controller mode, under advanced settings) > If you cannot seem to find this option, trying searching for a BIOS > upgrade for your motherboard. > If it's enabled, and somehow your kernel haven't picked it up, check > that CONFIG_SATA_AHCI is enabled in your kernel .confing. ($ > cat /boot/*config* | grep AHCI) > ... If it does, you may need an updated kernel that better supports your > SATA chipset. (Which board is it?) My kernel is configured to have AHCI as a module: CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=m However I understand that it means that this module is needed also in the initrd image. How can I check which modules made it to the initrd image last time it was rebuilt? Thanks, --- Omer -- If verbal consent is not obtained in triplicate, it is date rape. Asking permission constitutes harassment. My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.htmlDelay is the deadliest form of denial.C. Northcote Parkinson My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?
[This E-mail message is bottom-posting contrary to my usual custom.] On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 17:26 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 15:29 +0300, Omer Zak wrote: > > I have a PC with powerful processor, lots of RAM and SATA hard disk. > > Nevertheless I noticed that sometimes applications (evolution E-mail > > software and Firefox[iceweasel] Web browser) have the sluggish feel of a > > busy system (command line response time remains crisp, however, because > > the processor is 4x2 core one [4 cores, each multithreads as 2]). > > > > I run the gnome-system-monitor all the time. > > > > I notice that even when those applications feel sluggish, only one or at > > most two CPUs have high utilization, and there is plenty of free RAM (no > > swap space is used at all). > > > > Disk I/O is not monitored by gnome-system-monitor. > > So I suspect that the system is slowed down by disk I/O. I would like > > to eliminate it as a possible cause for the applications' sluggish feel. > > > > I ran smartctl tests on the hard disk, and they gave it clean bill of > > health. Therefore I/O error recovery should not be the reason for > > performance degradation. > > > > I am asking Collective Wisdom for advice about how to do: > > 1. Monitoring disk I/O load (counting I/O requests is not sufficient, as > > each request takes different time to complete due for example to disk > > head seeks or platter rotation time). > > 2. Disk scheduler fine-tuning possibilities to optimize disk I/O > > handling. > > 3. If smartctl is not sufficient to ensure that no I/O error overhead is > > incurred, how to better assess the hard disk's health? > > > > Thanks, > > --- Omer > > > > Hello Omer, > > Two questions: > > 1. Kernel version? > 2.6.38 added a very small patch that that done wonders to eliminate > foreground process scheduling issues that plagued desktop setups since > the introduction of the CFS scheduler*. (Google for +2.6.38 +group > +scheduling) > On my Fedora 14 + 2.6.38 / dual 6C Xeon workstation I can easily > watching a DVD movies while compiling the kernel and running a couple of > VM's (using qemu-kvm) in the background. Doing the same using the stock > Fedora 14 2.6.35 kernel is... err... interesting experience :) Standard Debian Squeeze kernel: $ uname -a Linux c4 2.6.32-5-vserver-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Mar 7 23:14:47 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux > 2. Are you sure your SATA is in AHCI mode? > (Simply type: $ find /sys/devices | grep ahci) My SATA indeed runs in non-AHCI mode. The question now is how to configure it to run in AHCI mode? According to the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Host_Controller_Interface, I need to modify a BIOS setting and maybe create a new initrd image. Another source: http://www.techmetica.com/howto/sata-ahci-mode-bios-setting.-what-does-it-do/ I can handle the BIOS setting but how to check whether a new initrd image is needed, and if necessary create it? --- Omer -- Bottom posters are filthy heretics and infidels and ought to be burned on the stake after having been tarred, feathered and having rotten eggs thrown at their faces! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:47 +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Sat, May 07, 2011, Omer Zak wrote about "Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?": > > I suspect that speeding up /usr won't help improve performance that > > much. The applications, which seem to be sluggish, deal with a lot of > > user data in /home. Furthermore, this user data varies a lot with time, > > hence it is not that good idea to store it in SSD. > > As usual, "it depends on your workload" applies. > > In my own personal experience (and naturally, it might differ considerably > from your use case), when I see "sluggish behavior" on a desktop machine, > what is actually happening is that "foreground" activity, such as playing or > working with video files, or such as compilation of a large project, causes > a lot of other pages to be swapped out; And then, when you switch to a > different application, it needs to swap pages in - either program text (code) > directly from the executables, or data pages from the swap partition. I explicitly checked whether my PC is swapping or not (vmstat 1) and it was not. The sluggish behavior was not due to any RAM shortage. The contents of /proc/sys/vm/swappiness are: 60 I did find (using iostat -x -k 1) that both /usr and /home are heavily used (and %util hits 100% for both of them). In my PC they are in separate partitions but on the same hard disk (which is managed by LVM with encryption, except for a smallish boot partition). [OFFTOPIC] It was great experience to see all this thread resulting from my single posting. I can understand how it comes that some people enjoy trolling mailing lists. --- Omer -- We live in a world of stupid people who enjoy being stupid. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?
On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 21:49 +0300, Elazar Leibovich wrote: > On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 4:06 PM, guy keren wrote: > > if you eventually decide that it is indeed disk I/O that slows > you down, > and if you have a lot of money to spend - you could consider > buying an > enterprise-grade SSD (e.g. from fusion I/O or from OCZ - > although for > your use-case, some of the cheaper SSDs will do) and use it > instead of > the hard disks. they only cost thousands of dollars for a > 600GB SSD ;) > > > Is there a reason you're recommending such an expensive drives? > I thought some time ago to buy a "regular" 40-80Gb and install the OS > +swap there, and have a "regular" drive around for the rest of the > data. Is there a reason this won't work? I suspect that speeding up /usr won't help improve performance that much. The applications, which seem to be sluggish, deal with a lot of user data in /home. Furthermore, this user data varies a lot with time, hence it is not that good idea to store it in SSD. I liked more the idea of using a RAID scheme. --- Omer -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Disk I/O as a bottleneck?
I have a PC with powerful processor, lots of RAM and SATA hard disk. Nevertheless I noticed that sometimes applications (evolution E-mail software and Firefox[iceweasel] Web browser) have the sluggish feel of a busy system (command line response time remains crisp, however, because the processor is 4x2 core one [4 cores, each multithreads as 2]). I run the gnome-system-monitor all the time. I notice that even when those applications feel sluggish, only one or at most two CPUs have high utilization, and there is plenty of free RAM (no swap space is used at all). Disk I/O is not monitored by gnome-system-monitor. So I suspect that the system is slowed down by disk I/O. I would like to eliminate it as a possible cause for the applications' sluggish feel. I ran smartctl tests on the hard disk, and they gave it clean bill of health. Therefore I/O error recovery should not be the reason for performance degradation. I am asking Collective Wisdom for advice about how to do: 1. Monitoring disk I/O load (counting I/O requests is not sufficient, as each request takes different time to complete due for example to disk head seeks or platter rotation time). 2. Disk scheduler fine-tuning possibilities to optimize disk I/O handling. 3. If smartctl is not sufficient to ensure that no I/O error overhead is incurred, how to better assess the hard disk's health? Thanks, --- Omer -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
The riddle of atomic data transfer from process A to process B (cont'd)
After I posed the riddle, more than a week ago, several people contributed suggestions and points of view. - Shachar Shemesh suggested to implement a queue without locks. - Moish amended it with a suggestion to use a circular queue. - Baruch Siach suggested to try the userspace RCU library (http://lttng.org/urcu). - Ori Berger suggested a scheme utilizing a counter, a shadow value and a shadow counter. In a personal e-mail message, he made additional suggestions (such as having a look into http://www.concurrencykit.org/). - Guy Keren requested that the riddle be defined more precisely. - Also Ehud Karni contributed to the discussion. I found the RCU information to be fascinating. It validated my gut feeling that it is possible to utilize special cases of inter-process/thread information transfer to optimize the communication method. Once the communication method is optimized, it is possible to avoid a lot of process/thread synchronization overhead. As requested by Guy Keren, I'll restate the riddle. >>> Riddle restatement <<< System -- Given an embedded system with real time processes. The system may have multiple processors (or multiple cores in the same processor) and it may be possible to execute instructions and memory accesses out of order. Processes - One process (process M - measurement) monitors some quantity (say, temperature) and makes measured values of the quantity available for another process (process A - action). Process A retrieves the measured quantity (such as temperature) once in a while and takes some action accordingly (such as turning a heater on or off). Goal Devise a low-overhead mechanism for synchronizing between processes M and A to ensure that process A gets only consistent data from process M. Neither process shall be starved by the synchronization mechanism. Compromises --- Process M is activated periodically. However, if the system is loaded, it may skip some activations of M. Same - with process A. It is OK for process A's action to take place some time after the temperature has reached the threshold value/s for that action. It is OK for process A to skip some measurements and/or use a slightly out of date measurement value. It is also OK for process A to read more than once a single measurement made by process M. Therefore, it is not logically necessary to have a queue which stores all measurements made by process M for making them available, one by one, to process A. On the other hand, the data structure describing a measurement is several bytes long, so memory accesses, needed to update it, would not be atomic the way a one-byte long value (or 32-bit long value in a 32-bit system) can be updated atomically (all at once). All real data transfer is in one direction only (from process M to process A). Desired tradeoffs - The system has several pairs of measurement processes (like process M above) and action processes (like process A above), hence it is desirable to make any synchronization as lightweight as possible. It is also desirable to have an upper bound for the memory consumption of any queues or lists the implementation needs. It is not desirable (but harmless) to use memory barriers. >>> End of riddle restatement <<< It is probable that the theory, described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_data_structure, would be relevant to the riddle. A paradigm, which could be useful, is described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory. --- Omer ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: The STREAMS non-inclusion in Linux
Thanks, Geoff Mendelson and Shlomi Fish, for helping me understand why STREAMS didn't find its way into Linux. Intuitively, drivers stacked according to STREAMS interfaces and protocols would be slower than monolithic drivers accomplishing the same function. Therefore the monolithic solution would be preferred. This is especially true as Linux kernel supports loading and unloading of driver modules, so it does not cost much to replace the equivalent of one stack of drivers by the equivalent of another stack of drivers. I was amused to read that one of the POSIX standards was affected by Linux' insistence upon not implementing STREAMS in the standard kernel. --- Omer On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 13:03 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: > Hi Omer, > > On Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 08:09:35 Omer Zak wrote: > > One of the things in which Linux diverges from Unix is Linux' > > non-implementation of STREAMS. > > > > STREAMS can roughly be described as a way to organize drivers dealing > > with I/O. > > > > Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STREAMS > > Linux Journal article: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3086 > > > > None of them has details about the reasons, which led Linux Kernel > > developers to reject STREAMS. STREAMS was only vaguely described as > > poorly-designed and resource-consuming. > > > > Where can I find, if it exists at all, the definitive article which > > spells out the reasons for rejection of STREAMS? > > > > Well, I should note that Eric Raymond has written about STREAMS here: > > * http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch07s03.html -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
The STREAMS non-inclusion in Linux
One of the things in which Linux diverges from Unix is Linux' non-implementation of STREAMS. STREAMS can roughly be described as a way to organize drivers dealing with I/O. Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STREAMS Linux Journal article: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3086 None of them has details about the reasons, which led Linux Kernel developers to reject STREAMS. STREAMS was only vaguely described as poorly-designed and resource-consuming. Where can I find, if it exists at all, the definitive article which spells out the reasons for rejection of STREAMS? --- Omer -- Soylent Green is people! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Time for panic mongering over IPv4 exhaustion?
"It’s official: Asia’s just run out of IPv4 Addresses" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/it-8217s-official-asia-8217s-just-run-out-of-ipv4-addresses/948 Will new cellphone customers henceforth be forced to buy "kosher" cellphones i.e. cellphones with no Internet connectivity capabilities? -- "Kosher" Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/ and http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2007/02/04/rabbi-eliashiv-declared-war-on-the-deaf/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: The riddle of atomic data transfer from process A to process B
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 16:40 -0400, Ori Berger wrote:
> On 04/13/2011 09:41 AM, Omer Zak wrote:
>
> > A full fledged queue would force the consuming process (process A) to
> > read and process all data written by the producing process (process M)
> > even when process A needs only the most recent value whenever it reads
> > process M's data.
>
> I forgot how this scheme is called, but assuming you have some shared
> memory between the processes, what you do is:
>
> have value variable (e.g. "value") and counter variable ("counter")
> also shadow_value and shadow_counter
If the counter is one byte wide, then any updates to it would be atomic
by definition (of course, the context is that only process M ever
modifies it).
> initialize counter to 0 (any even number will do)
>
> in process M:
>
> atomic_increase counter; (or follow with memory_barrier())
> write value;
> atomic_increase counter; (or follow with memory_barrier())
>
> in process A:
>
> pre_counter = atomic_read counter; (or precede with memory_barrier())
> new_value = read value;
> post_counter = atomic_read counter; (or precede with memory_barrier())
I wondered whether it is enough to realize the counter using two bits.
However such a design won't protect process A from reading inconsistent
data if process M was updating data twice while process A was reading
the same data.
Even a bigger counter won't provide full protection as long as the
counter can overflow. We need a way for process A to signal back to
process M that A is in middle of reading data, so process M should not
update it this time.
> if (pre_counter == post_counter) && (pre_counter%2 == 0), new_value has
> been safely read; write it to "shadow_value", use that as value, (and
> for good measure store pre_counter in "shadow_counter").
>
> if pre_counter != post_counter, use "shadow_value" - and be aware that
> your value is actually up to date only for "shadow_counter".
In this case, process A would simply yield control (equivalent to
putting process A in a loop, except that other processes would be
allowed to proceed meanwhile), as it hasn't read a new value this time.
> This is lock free in the sense that no process blocks waiting for the
> other one. However, you may end up using an older value. You might put
> 'A's reader in a loop, so that it retries until it manages to read an
> up-to-date value.
>
> Also, in a fully deterministic system, you might get to a situation
> where A and B interlace in such a way that you *always* read the value
> while it is being modified, so the shadow value never gets updated. In a
> random system, the probability of being more than 'n' updates behind the
> producer drops exponentially with n.
The ideal solution needs a mechanism to prevent this theoretical
possibility.
> Note that unlike CAS and friends, the "value" here can be any size
> whatsoever - only the counter needs to be read/written atomically (or
> otherwise synchronized through the memory barrier).
--- Omer
--
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Re: The riddle of atomic data transfer from process A to process B
A full fledged queue would force the consuming process (process A) to read and process all data written by the producing process (process M) even when process A needs only the most recent value whenever it reads process M's data. On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 16:21 +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 13/04/11 16:07, Omer Zak wrote: > > The riddle: > > 1. If the operating system being used is Linux, what other mechanisms > > (besides turning off interrupts) are available to single-processor > > systems to accomplish this? > > 2. If the system has a multi-core processor or several processors, which > > low overhead synchronization method can be used to accomplish this? > > > > > Read in Linux Device Drivers how to implement a queue with no locks. You > don't need the data access to be atomic, so long as the queue pointer > can be accessed atomically. -- QA People of Curse. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
The riddle of atomic data transfer from process A to process B
I have a riddle for you. Given a system with real time processes. One process (process M) monitors some quantity (say, temperature) and makes measured values of the quantity available for another process (process A). Process A retrieves the measured temperature once in a while and takes some action accordingly. The circumstances are such that it is OK for process A's action to take place few seconds after the temperature has reached the corresponding threshold value. However, process A is activated more frequently than that. It is desirable to allow the system to occasionally skip an invocation of process M and/or process A if it is overloaded with other processing needs. So the design should not force process A to be activated after each activation of process M or to activate process M before each invocation of process A. The system has several such processes, so it is desirable to have an inter-process mechanism having the absolute minimum overhead for unidirectional data transfers from measuring processes (like process M) to action taking processes (such as process A). One approach is to exploit the fact that information transfer from M to A is in one direction only, and that no harm occurs if process A reads the same value more than once. In this case, it is possible to use a shared memory area. Process M will write to the shared memory area at its pleasure and process A will read from it, without coordination with process M. There is one problem, however. If the value in question is multi-byte one, then we need to assure that writes and reads to the shared memory area are atomic, so that it'll never happen that process A reads a partially-modified value. If the value being transferred is a single-byte value, then there is no problem. In systems with 32-bit memory subsystems and 32-bit data paths, aligned 4-byte word writes are atomic as well. However, if one desires to pass, say, an 8-byte value (such as a timestamp), then one needs to have some locking mechanism. In systems based upon one single-core processor, it is possible to solve the problem by turning off interrupts before each write/read to the shared memory area, and restoring their previous state afterwards. The riddle: 1. If the operating system being used is Linux, what other mechanisms (besides turning off interrupts) are available to single-processor systems to accomplish this? 2. If the system has a multi-core processor or several processors, which low overhead synchronization method can be used to accomplish this? --- Omer -- If verbal consent is not obtained in triplicate, it is date rape. Asking permission constitutes harassment. My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.htmlDelay is the deadliest form of denial.C. Northcote Parkinson My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: GPL as an evaluation license
IANAL either. But what you are looking for is, in principle, dual licensing. The providers of MySQL and Qt follow the same model. Their software libraries are available under either GPL (with all the restrictions it entails) or under a proprietary license. When a client of yours gets your software under proprietary license, you are free to impose whichever terms you want upon them, including terms under which they are allowed to transfer the software to third parties. --- Omer On Sat, 2011-04-09 at 15:50 +0300, Aviad Mandel wrote: > Hi list, > > I know you're not lawyers, but I though you could help me with a GPL > issue. > > I'm writing a function library in C which I want to sell licenses for, > targeting a specialized industry. To make my entry point better, I > plan to release it under GPL (as opposed to LGPL) so that potential > users can evaluate it properly before making a decision. My target > industry is far far away from FOSS, so I'm pretty sure that they won't > release their own code under GPL in order to adopt mine free (as in > beer). > > So as long as I make sure I own all copyrights, will this work > legally? > > Two main questions: > > (1) Is GPL giving me the enough protection? > (2) Will GPL allow a company which hasn't bought a non-GPL license > enough freedom to evaluate the library? > > What makes this slightly complicated, is what happens when company X > decides to take my library and integrate it into their proprietary > software for evaluation. Even for their internal copies, they can't > badge the whole package as GPL, because they don't necessarily own the > rights to all components, and may not even have all sources. > > So let's look at the case where the company has just linked my GPL'ed > library with their proprietary source codes + proprietary libraries > for which the company only has as binaries. > > Now person X wants to send a copy of the software's binary (my library > included) to person Y, say over email. Under what conditions is it > legal? If person Y works at the same company? For the same company > (outsourcing)? Has access to everything necessary to build the > software, so that person Y could in theory build the binary from > software owned by the company + the library under GPL? -- PHP - the language of the Vogons. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: some help in technical solution
I see two possibilities: 1. Connect the mice to a PC in which the X-Server is not activated. If you need to display graphic results, use two networked computers. 2. Use explicit /etc/X11/xorg.conf >From reading man xorg.conf: - Disable hotplugging. - SendCoreEvents off for all identified mice except for one. DISCLAIMER: I didn't actually try the above. On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 07:04 +0300, yosi yarchi wrote: > Hi > > Regarding the solution of mouse or numeric keypad (with USB hubs), I > have no clear idea about the technical obstacles. I think that main > ones are: > > (1) bypass X system, and direct the events from particular sources > (those mouses or numeric keyboards) to my app. > (2) process the events by myself, with knowledge about the source > device (the particular mouse or numeric keyboard). > > Have you any ideas regarding available support in linux for (1) and > (2)? > > With best regards > Yosi Yarchi > > On 04/06/2011 05:08 PM, Udi Finkelstein wrote: > > I think any analog DAQ based solution will be expensive. Use too > > many analog levels, and it will not be accurate. Use a small number > > of levels, and the price per port for analog connection will drive > > the price too high. > > > > You can try using computer mice. > > cheap 2 button+scroll wheel starts at 17NIS on zap. > > Such a mouse can provide at least 5 events: > > > > right button > > left button > > middle button (scroll wheel press) > > scroll up > > scroll down > > > > You can then take apart the mouse and repackage it, maybe replacing > > the wheel with 3 distinct switches. > > > > Ofcourse you might need powered hubs if you intend to drive 30 mice. > > You could try taking eight 4 port unpowered hubs (also starts at 17 > > NIS on zap), and if you computer has 8 free USB ports (many do these > > days), you could fit 30 mice, and hope that each port can drive 4 > > mice + hub. You will also have 2 spare ports (8*4-30)for the > > console keyboard/mouse. > > > > Another direction would be to use an arduino board. > > http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/microcontrollers-arduino-compatible-c-132_133.html > > The cheapest $19 board has 14 digital inputs plus 6 analog ones > > which you can treat as digital if you like. > > 20 input pins can serve 5 users (4 input pins/user) or 6 users (3 > > input pins per user if you wire them smartly - 1 qualifier signal > > that is grounded by all 4 switches, and 2 more that are getting a > > 2-bit binary code. > > > > seeedstudio has free worldwide shipping for orders above $50. > > > > Udi > > > > 2011/4/6 yosi yarchi > > Hi > > > > This is interesting idea. However, it support voting between > > 2 options, only, while I need at least 4 options. > > I thought that combination of analog DAQ and 4 push buttons > > with analog output may help here. > > Does someone have an idea about such combination (analog DAQ > > +edge unit)? > > > > With best regards > > Yosi Yarchi > > > > > > > > > > > > On 04/06/2011 10:55 AM, Jason Friedman wrote: > > > I think the best solution would be to use a data > > > acquisition device, either USB or PCI. > > > > > > > > > Measurement computing sell relatively cheap devices, e.g. > > > this USB one for $99: > > > http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1024-Series.aspx > > > > > > > > > can measure 24 digital channels (you could get two if you > > > need 30). > > > > > > > > > Each "competitor" could have a small switch, which > > > connects their input line to say a 5V power supply. > > > > > > > > > You can then write a very simple program to detect when > > > each competitor presses their switch > > > (with sub-millisecond accuracy!). > > > > > > > > > These devices apparently have linux support. > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, yosi yarchi > > > wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > I need application that will be able to collect > > > and process inputs from 30 (!) competitors, and > > > will display the results very fast. The ideal > > > solution could be to collect the inputs via SMS: > > > each competitor send his answer, the application > > > collect the answers (related to phone number) and > > > process them. However, I can't assume that the > > > competitors have mobile phones (they may be little > > > childs...). > > > > > > > > > I thought to use 30 USB numerical keyboards
Re: some help in technical solution
I think that analog DAQ with 30 channels would be an overkill for such an application. If you need to give each competitor 4 options, why not choose between one of the following options: 1. 120 digital channels (5 digital DAQ modules at 24 channels each) and provide each competitor with 4 channels, each one connected to its own pushbutton. 2. If you prefer to build 30 4->2 encoders, each getting inputs from 4 pushbuttons and providing 2 digital outputs, then you'll need only 60 digital channels (3 digital DAQ modules, with 12 digital channels to spare). Of course, the final choice involves price tradeoff between: - Analog DAQ with 30 channels + 4-pushbutton with resistors module - Digital DAQ with 120 channels + simple 4-pushbutton module - Digital DAQ with 60 channels + 4-pushbutton with encoder module I assume that data processing speed is not a limiting factor. --- Omer On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 15:54 +0300, yosi yarchi wrote: > Hi > > This is interesting idea. However, it support voting between 2 > options, only, while I need at least 4 options. > I thought that combination of analog DAQ and 4 push buttons with > analog output may help here. > Does someone have an idea about such combination (analog DAQ+edge > unit)? > > With best regards > Yosi Yarchi > > > > > > On 04/06/2011 10:55 AM, Jason Friedman wrote: > > I think the best solution would be to use a data acquisition device, > > either USB or PCI. > > > > > > Measurement computing sell relatively cheap devices, e.g. this USB > > one for $99: > > http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1024-Series.aspx > > > > > > can measure 24 digital channels (you could get two if you need 30). > > > > > > Each "competitor" could have a small switch, which connects their > > input line to say a 5V power supply. > > > > > > You can then write a very simple program to detect when each > > competitor presses their switch > > (with sub-millisecond accuracy!). > > > > > > These devices apparently have linux support. > > > > > > Jason > > > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, yosi yarchi > > wrote: > > Hi all > > > > > > I need application that will be able to collect and process > > inputs from 30 (!) competitors, and will display the results > > very fast. The ideal solution could be to collect the inputs > > via SMS: each competitor send his answer, the application > > collect the answers (related to phone number) and process > > them. However, I can't assume that the competitors have > > mobile phones (they may be little childs...). > > > > > > I thought to use 30 USB numerical keyboards as input > > devices, connected with cables to 3 hubs, connected to the > > computer. > > > > However, I don't have experience with USB drivers at > > linux... > > > > > > Is it feasible? What should be the main guidelines for the > > solution? -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: some help in technical solution
Unless I am mistaken, the USB specs stipulate that it shall be possible to connect up to 127 USB devices to a PC. So what you want to do should be doable. However I don't know the chances of it exposing bugs in the Linux USB subsystem, as it is a rare use case. However, if you are providing hardware to the competitors anyway, why not issue them a WiFi enabled device, and then have your server collect information via TCP/IP (such as by having them surf to a Website which does the answer collection). --- Omer On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 07:44 +0300, yosi yarchi wrote: > Hi all > > > I need application that will be able to collect and process inputs from > 30 (!) competitors, and will display the results very fast. The ideal > solution could be to collect the inputs via SMS: each competitor send > his answer, the application collect the answers (related to phone > number) and process them. However, I can't assume that the competitors > have mobile phones (they may be little childs...). > > > I thought to use 30 USB numerical keyboards as input devices, connected > with cables to 3 hubs, connected to the computer. > > However, I don't have experience with USB drivers at linux... > > > Is it feasible? What should be the main guidelines for the solution? -- Did you shave a yak today? My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
USB redirection into a virtual machine (was: Re: Linux has won!)
On Sun, 2011-04-03 at 19:22 +0300, Elazar Leibovich wrote: > 2011/4/3 Steve G. > > So I have it in use 5 minutes every couple of days, and the > rest is pure Linux. > > > Why don't you use a virtual machine. I think some of them can redirect > USB from host to virtual system. At least in the case of VirtualBox, USB can be redirected from host to virtual machine. When you are running a virtual machine, VirtualBox offers a menu and one of the menu options is to open a list of USB devices connected to the host and make it possible for you to select some of them for redirection to the virtual machine. Note that the keyboard and mouse receive special handling. --- Omer -- By running MS-Windows XP on your PC, you are probably a multi-zombie. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Backup script (was Re: rsync problem)
I see I follow a different backup policy from Sambo.
Sambo keeps the last N backups in the same physical hard disk (or maybe
RAID array). I keep a backup in a removable device. My policy is to
never trust a single interconnected system with my data (so that I'll
not suffer massive data loss if my UPS+computer are fully zapped by
power surge from the mains, or if the computer's hard disk goes kaput).
I have two removable hard disks, each one containing an almost full
backup of my computer's filesystem. I rsync to each of them in
rotation. Since I don't want to spend several hours on backup each day,
this scheme allows me to keep only the two most recent backups (with
rsync saving time by not copying over a file which was not modified
since previous backup).
What I would like to have is a Time Machine (TM?) like scheme in which a
backup disk will enable me to see a snapshot of my computer's disk from
a certain date. It can be implemented by making hard links.
Did anyone develop such a backup script?
--- Omer
On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 21:34 -0400, sammy ominsky wrote:
> On 21/03/2011, at 15:57, Omer Zak wrote:
>
> > By the way, my own backup script uses the following rsync flags:
> > rsync -avH --progress --max-delete=20 --delete --delete-excluded
> > --exclude-from=$EXCLUSIONS_FILE $FROM $TO
>
>
> This looks like a fun game! I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> date=`date "+%Y-%m-%d"`
>
> mkdir /nas/web-backup/Backups/${date}-incomplete
> rsync -avP --exclude-from=/etc/rsync/web-exclude
> --link-dest=/nas/web-backup/Backups/current /nas/web/
> /nas/web-backup/Backups/${date}-incomplete
>
> mv /nas/web-backup/Backups/${date}-incomplete /nas/web-backup/Backups/${date}
> chown -R www-data:www-data /nas/web-backup/Backups/${date}
>
> cd /nas/web-backup/Backups
> rm /nas/web-backup/Backups/current
> ln -s ${date} current
> unset date
>
> # delete backups created more than 7 days ago
> find /nas/web-backup/Backups/ -maxdepth 1 -ctime +6 -exec rm -rf {} \;
--
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Re: rsync problem
I notice the anomaly both /home and /public get rsync'ed into $MOUNT/home-public. Could it be that /public has files with the same name as deleted files in /home? (Not to mention the more serious problem that $MOUNT/home-public would contain only files from /public, no files from /home.) By the way, my own backup script uses the following rsync flags: rsync -avH --progress --max-delete=20 --delete --delete-excluded --exclude-from=$EXCLUSIONS_FILE $FROM $TO --- Omer On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 21:39 +0200, Shlomo Solomon wrote: > I have a backup script using rsync. I've included part of it below. For some > reason, everything seems to work OK except that files don't get deleted from > the backup copy of /home (I've marked the problem with a comment). Since the > params I specify on all lines of the script are the same, I can't see any > reason why the /home directory would be handled differently. > > Any ideas? > > > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /boot $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /etc $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /root $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /sbin $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /tmp $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /usr $MOUNT/system > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /var $MOUNT/system > next line doesn't work properly > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /home $MOUNT/home-public > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /public$MOUNT/home-public > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /data2 $MOUNT/data > rsync -rlvtogS --delete /data1 $MOUNT/data -- No actual electrons, animals or children were harmed by writing this E-mail message. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Brain storm: how do I debug this?
Then the next step is to eliminate bugs in modular drivers (unless in "same kernel" you mean that also the kernel modules are the same) and in user space programs/configuration files. Time to do a "Lion in the desert": 1. Uninstall as many packages as possible from the Debian installation, yet exhibiting the bug. This will also reduce the number of files to be dealt with in the next steps. 2. If the filesystem in the system supports access timestamps, determine which files are being accessed by the boot process. I don't know if it needs to be enabled specifically - I know that in regular Linux systems I'd like this to be disabled to conserve boot times and reduce chances of filesystem corruption. 3. Make hybrid Debian-Ubuntu installations, by copying over groups of files (among those which are being touched by the boot process) from Ubuntu when they differ from their Debian counterparts. On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 15:26 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 19/03/11 15:14, Omer Zak wrote: > > Did you verify that all hardware works properly, especially all physical > > memory? > > Can you run a memory test on the device? > > > I don't think there is memcheck for arm (am I wrong?), but the symptoms > don't feel like corrupt memory. There is no panic, and Ubuntu worked > just fine with precisely the same kernel. -- PHP - the language of the Vogons. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Brain storm: how do I debug this?
Did you verify that all hardware works properly, especially all physical memory? Can you run a memory test on the device? On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 14:42 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > In 2009 I won a SheevaPlug as part of Hamakor Prize. At the time, I > made sure it was actually working (it wasn't at first. The problem > turned out to be that the MiniUSB cable that was bundled with the > device was too short to make contact with the MiniUSB connector inside > the device), and that I can connect to it, and that was it. > > A little while ago I picked it up again, and found out it wasn't > booting. I managed to bootstrap uboot on it (which i compiled from the > kirkwood git repository), and boot it into the bundled jffs2 Ubuntu > 9.04 image that came with it, using a kernel I compiled from git > (2.6.38-rc8, and later 2.6.38). So far, so good. > > Now I wanted to replace the image on it with Debian. I managed to > debootstrap debian onto a disk on key, but when I try to boot it, it > hangs during boot. I moved the image to a UBIFS image on the internal > nand, but the problem persist. I can boot into single user mode, and > everything works, but if I try to let the system boot completely, it > just hangs. > > Symptoms: > > * Pressing anything on the keyboard does not echo > * Magic sysrq key does not work (it does if I send the break > before the hang) > * The boot sequence starts a couple of the init processes, and > does not continue. > * The console is working. If I plug a disk on key, I see the > console message about it, and it detects the partitions on it > a second later. > I tried to connect via jtag and get a backtrace - the system is in the > cpu_idle routine - no panic and nothing out of the ordinary, except > that it is not doing what it was supposed to be doing at this point. > > I tried to remove the last loaded service from the startup. The result > is that it still loads two services and hangs (just, different > services). > > Now I'm stuck for idea as to what to try next. Anyone? -- What happens if one mixes together evolution with time travel to the past? See: http://www.zak.co.il/a/stuff/opinions/eng/evol_tm.html My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: IE6 Countdown
It was nice of them to omit the IE6 usage statistics for Israel, sparing us from the embarassment and shame. On Sun, 2011-03-06 at 01:51 +0200, Mordecha Behar wrote: > I saw this on Slashdot. > Does this mean that all of the crappy web pages designed by delinquent > morons in Israel are now going to conform to standards and render > properly in normal browsers? > > 2011/3/5 Amos Shapira > Not directly Linux related but a source of a lot of pain for > Linux users in Israel: > http://ie6countdown.com/ -- QA People of Curse. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Update: eVrit e-book Reader
It is my understanding that that someone must archive his own copy of the relevant source files and make them available to people who use the device. One of the reasons is because the seller has no control over the projects' official Websites, and in the future the versions available from them may differ from the version actually used by the device (for example, due to security fixes). --- Omer On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 12:01 +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011, Lior Kaplan wrote about "Re: Update: eVrit e-book > Reader": > > Did you get any kind of source or offer for the source as the licenses > > require? > > > > Kaplan > > I am not a lawyer and haven't paid attention to every little detail in the > GPL, > so maybe I'm asking a stupid question: does the GPL really say that you must > give the source, or offer the source from your own site? > > What I mean is, if someone is selling a device running some unmodified version > of Linux, and a couple other unmodified programs, isn't it enough for them > to just say that, and you can get it from those projects' own official sites? -- What happens if one mixes together evolution with time travel to the past? See: http://www.zak.co.il/a/stuff/opinions/eng/evol_tm.html My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: weird network issue
h 1. What do the following commands say: ifup --version ifup --verbose eth0 2. What are the contents of: /etc/network/interfaces (if it exists - I use Debian Lenny and I am not familiar with CentOS 5.5) On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 13:06 +0200, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: > Hi Omer, > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Omer Zak wrote: > Hello Hetz, > 1. Does the virtual machine have additional network cards > (eth1, eth2, > etc.)? If yes, you may be accessing the network via those > cards rather > than via eth0. (Statement about proper routing withstanding.) > > > Nada. eth0, lo - nothing more. > > 2. Which Linux distribution is running in the virtual machine? > > > Centos 5.5 64 bit + updates. > > > Google search (rtnetlink answers network is unreachable) > yielded the > following possibilities: > - Misconfigured IP address in firewall script. > > > No new IP addresses were added. Default firewall configuration. > > - Network card does not exist (as far as the virtual machine > is > concerned). > > > exists, I'm ssh'ed to this machine as I write this mail :) > > - Misconfigured network card. > > > I posted the configuration here. Looks OK to me. > > > Two of the URLs I got from the above Google search: > > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/server-ifup-rtnetlink-answers-network-is-unreachable-problem-340915/ > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=155299 > > > Looked at both of them. Didn't see anything special which could help. > > > Hetz -- Every good master plan involves building a time machine. Moshe Zadka My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: weird network issue
Hello Hetz,
1. Does the virtual machine have additional network cards (eth1, eth2,
etc.)? If yes, you may be accessing the network via those cards rather
than via eth0. (Statement about proper routing withstanding.)
2. Which Linux distribution is running in the virtual machine?
Google search (rtnetlink answers network is unreachable) yielded the
following possibilities:
- Misconfigured IP address in firewall script.
- Network card does not exist (as far as the virtual machine is
concerned).
- Misconfigured network card.
Two of the URLs I got from the above Google search:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/server-ifup-rtnetlink-answers-network-is-unreachable-problem-340915/
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=155299
--- Omer
On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 12:32 +0200, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I'm getting some really weird error, even though the network on the
> machine works well.
> When I'm doing: "service network restart" or "ifup eth0", I'm getting
> a message: RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable.
>
>
> It is reachable. route's output is perfectly ok, the machine can
> access the net and I can access it from outside. DNS works, ping works
> etc..
>
>
> Looking at /var/log/messages, all I see is:
>
>
> Feb 14 13:23:00 testing23 kernel: eth0: intr type 2, mode 0, 1 vectors
> allocated
> Feb 14 13:23:00 testing23 kernel: eth0: NIC Link is Up 1 Mbps
>
>
> Here is my ifcfg-eth0 (it's a virtual machine, so the check_link stuff
> is what vmware added)
>
>
> DEVICE=eth0
> ONBOOT=yes
> USERCTL=no
> BOOTPROTO=none
> NETMASK=255.255.255.224
> IPADDR=82.XXX.XXX.203
> PEERDNS=no
>
>
> check_link_down() {
> return 1;
> }
> HWADDR=00:50:56:a3:00:18
> GATEWAY=82.XXX.XXX.193
> TYPE=Ethernet
>
>
> Any suggestions?
--
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Re: Remote control on Linux machine
On Wed, 2011-02-09 at 17:15 +0200, Ori Idan wrote: > Is there any solution (preferably free as in free speech) for remote > control on Linux machine, similar to logmein for Windows? > Something that can work if the machine is behind NAT. I have been successful with TeamViewer from ttp://www.teamviewer.com/ --- Omer -- Soylent Green is people! My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Script to create an image from text?
Make sure that your Web server has Perl, ImageMagick and the CPAN module Image::Magick. Then $image->Annotate() should do what you need. PHP probably has an equivalent module, but I didn't check it. On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 15:39 +0200, Amichai Rotman wrote: > Hi, > > > I am looking for a script to be used at a web site that will accept > certain details as input (say: Name, Phone, etc.) and then convert it > to a jpeg image file that will include a template (say: A diploma > graphic) and the text entered incorporated... > > > I hope I was clear enough -- Any legal limit to self defense means that there is no right for self defense at all. This is because the aggressors would exploit those legal limits to render their victims totally defenseless. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: total uptime between shutdowns
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 10:00 +0200, Tom Rosenfeld wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Is there a tool that will show me the total uptime (availability) of a > machine between reboots? > That is, if the machine was up for 24 hours and then shutdown for an > hour and then up for 23 hours I want an answer of 47. > > I need this for charge-back of departments using cloud computer which > they sometimes turn off. 1. Maybe the cloud computers' provider has the appropriate tool? In this case, if you don't find the tool yourself, you'll have to tell us which cloud provider are you working with. 2. The 'uptime' command gives the uptime since last reboot. You may want to add 'uptime >> /var/log/my_uptimes_log.txt' to the shutdown script, and rotate & process, using a custom Perl script, the /var/log/my_uptime_log.txt file each month to total the uptime in that month. --- Omer -- MCSE - acronym for Minesweeper Consultant & Solitaire Expert. (Unknown) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: new SI1452 keyboard layout
On Sun, 2011-01-16 at 22:18 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > On 13/01/11 10:52, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > > Hi > > > > So I set up a small git repo with the xkb mapping and put my changes > > in a branch: > > > > http://gitorious.org/si1452-xkb/si1452-xkb/commits/tzafrir > > > > [... snipped ...] > In the end, the SII will issue a standard. Like it or not, this is what > will get implemented on most computers out there. Ideally, this standard > is what will get implemented on ALL computers out there. As such, I > think it is best to try and make sure that this standard is as good as > we can make it. [... snipped ...] > Creating forks and branches may lead to one of two outcomes, as far as I > can see, neither desirable. The least bad outcome is that no-one will > use your repo, and you would have wasted time and effort. The worst > case, however, is that your repo is widely successful, but incompatible > with the end standard. As such, I think it is best to keep the feedback > flowing where the SII sub-committee can pick it up. Please allow me to disagree about this point. Successful standards (RFCs upon which the Internet is based) were developed by methods similar to the one supported by Tzafrir's effort. People implemented proposed standards and actually tried to work with them. Unsuccessful standards (OSI 7-layer networking model, X.whatever E-mail addressing standard, etc.) were approved by a committee without having been actually implemented and put to trial by fire. In the case of the new SI1452 keyboard layout standard, it means that it should be easy for people to try various keyboard layouts and see which feels right to them and why. It should be easy for them to tweak those layouts and pass back feedback to the committee (I understand that you [Shachar] are doing excellent job in getting our feedback back to the committee). And if a particular layout was not approved as The Standard but turns out to be wildly successful, then it means that the SII committee screwed up. Then SII should review its standard making processes and see what can be done to avoid approving a suboptimal standard in the future. --- Omer -- 42 is the answer to everything. Food is the answer to everything except obesity. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Which software will be used (was: Re: Die GNU autotools)
On Sun, 2011-01-16 at 01:32 +0200, Elazar Leibovich wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Nadav Har'El > wrote: > If two programs are virtually identical, have the > same features and quality, but one is written in C and takes 5 > MB on disk > and memory and the second is in Java and has its own copy of > the JVM and > takes 25 MB on disk and memory - which of the two do you think > the > distributions will pick up? Which do you think users will end > up using? > > > I seriously think that the one the end users will be using is the one > with the pink background and cute kittens in the toolbar, regardless > of whatever you mentioned. I don't think history proved that the best > software is the most used software (ie, ADA vs C for real-time > systems). The above applies when the end users are women. When the end users are men, the one that will actually be used will be the one with the biggest tits. (Apropos the joke about the manager who interviews three candidates for position of his personal secretary.) --- Omer -- May the holy trinity of $_, @_ and %_ be hallowed. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Die GNU autotools
Chiming in late, and I apologize if someone already mentioned the following point in E-mail which I didn't read yet. On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 13:30 +0200, Elazar Leibovich wrote: > Nowadays, developer time is expensive, QA time is expensive, support > time is expensive. Memory is cheap, CPU is cheap, disk space is cheap. > So I'd rather include another Megabyte of library the user already > have, than make building and supporting my software more > complicated=more expensive. > > > As mentioned, Mathworks would rather include a compatible JVM with > matlab, then use the one availible on the computer. The cost of that > is miniscule (another 20Mb on the disk, maybe a bit more memory, > assuming the user is using another JVM software simultaneously), and > even if the only thing it'll save you is the support call "it says JRE > 1.2 is not supported, please upgrade. How do I do that?", it probably > well worth it, not to mention the reduced cost of testing, the freedom > of using more advanced API, etc etc. This is not always true, but I > think that nowadays adding a library of 100Kb to almost any software, > always costs less than maintaining it with ifdefs. Eventually, the library versions will be harmonized by the Linux distributions' maintainers, who undertake to package and distribute your software, if your software is Free. So the ones who would invest in effort to optimize memory and hard disk usage by sharing libraries among versions and harmonizing library versions - are the ones who are in the best position to choose which libraries are worth the effort to eliminate duplicate copies. It is a nice division of labor. The original software developers don't need to worry about compatible libraries. Then if their software is successful and sufficiently widely-used to be added to Linux distributions, then its use of libraries will be optimized by other people. DISCLAIMER: I am a Debian user, and the above observation is based upon what I see from the process of developing Debian releases. If you use another distribution, YMMV. --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Time for a chuckle
After all those serious E-mail exchanges about printers etc., I thought it's time to have a moment of lightheadedness. Here is something on tech support A woman customer called the Canon help desk with a problem with her printer. *Tech support: * Are you running it under windows? *Customer: * 'No, my desk is next to the door, but that is a good point. The man sitting in the cubicle next to me is under a window, and his printer is working fine.' --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: consistent device name
The relevant subsystem is udev.
Check /etc/udev/rules.d
A rule which I used in a previous Linux installation (Debian Etch based)
for DiskOnKeys:
# SanDisk flash memory device (can find the details
in /proc/scsi/usb-storage)
#BUS=="usb",
SYSFS{manufacturer}=="SanDisk Corporation", SYSFS{product}=="U3
Titanium", SYSFS{serial}=="", NAME="%k",
SYMLINK="usb/8gflash", MODE="666", GROUP="omer"
--- Omer
On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:25 +0200, Erez D wrote:
> HI
>
> I have 2 identical USB to Serial dongles
>
> If I connect them to an XP box, i get assigned a COM port according to
> the usb port i connected to
> If I connect them to a Linux Box, i get assigned a ttyUSBn port
> according to the order i connected them
>
>
> as i am not always aware of the order i connect them, and it is not
> uniquly defined if the are both connected at boot time,
> I get the device name swapped every reboot.
>
>
> is there a way to assign a constant device name according to the USB
> port it is connected to and not via the order it is connected
> (under linux of course)
--
Everyone needs a hug.
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Problems in getting new drivers into Linux distributions
The article "The Challenge In Delivering Open-Source GPU Drivers" (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODk3MA) discusses the obstacles facing Intel and AMD in getting up to date Linux support for new graphic cards into Linux distributions. Seems that there are all kinds of interlocking interdependencies - both kernel, X-Window and Mesa (OpenGL implementation) need to be updated to support such drivers. And this is a problem for distributions which periodically release a version (Arch and Gentoo are exceptions). I do not understand one thing. Debian has backports (http://backports.debian.org/). Through backports, it is possible to get the appropriate updated versions into a installation based upon a particular release. Don't other distributions have backports, too? --- Omer -- You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian release to be named after Snufkin. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Linux-based Sharepoint equivalents?
A friend is learning about Sharepoint, and we chatted about this. As a result, I am curious to know what, if any, Free Software package/s can provide, more or less out of the box, functionality which is equivalent to that of Sharepoint? In other words, if a company asks for a Sharepoint solution, but without the need to be compatible with any existing solutions, what Free Software packages could we recommend them to use? --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
gitolite vs. gitosis
Several weeks ago I asked for opinions about using git vs. Mercurial for version-controlling a Website (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/ Hebrew translation, to be specific; I want to allow the project participants to modify and upload the Hebrew translation, yet require any changes to be committed to a version control system, in order to prevent vandalism). Now I am reading about git, and encountered gitolite and gitosis. Is there anyone with experience with those applications and can recommend whether to use one of them and if yes, which? Thanks, --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
