Re: We better keep this going!
Thanks CQ. I wish I had the time or the luxury of retirement so as to be available to projects like assembling accessible online resources as well as things available without extra cost on GNU/Linux and Macintosh. A nice mysql database with an adequate search functionality is all that it would take to get it started, users could login and add items or make further comments and it could grow organically. Unfortunately, I haven't the cycles to get it started yet but may in the Spring. These sort of things, along with gonzo weirdness and articles written by people expert in one thing or another, will be the new hofstader.com. I may also put up a Hall of Shame where people can report accessibility nightmares, and maybe get others to sign on and get something to the owner of the inaccessible web site or application. Happy Happy, cdh On Dec 27, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Chris, thanks for this! Now if we could just get people to use their spell-checkers! lol! Seriously though, info on resources such as the one on which you've posted, and the many conveniences built into the Mac OS for the alleviation of illiteracy, are truly welcomed here!… Smiles, CQ :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: If you really want to learn almost all of the important aspects of writing in the English language, the reference I use with frequency is Elements of Style, by Strunk and White. There is a no cost online version that you can find with google. For listserv posts, the grammar needn't be too great as long as your meaning can be easily derived. In business and other correspondence Professor Strunk and EB White have pulled my butt out of lingual disasters pretty often. cdh On Dec 27, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Ah your correct and my error. THanks for pointing my mistake out, it will help me remember and improve. :) On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, Because I was an English major in graduate school, I can't help myself: You wrote, sometimes, There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view... This is subjective rather than objective points of view. An objective measurement of a computing device might be how quickly it sorts a set of items - this results in a metric which can be compared without user influence on the outcome. Subjective is, I like the iPhone because it feels really nice in my hand. which has no way to specifically define a metric for feels good so falls into subjectivity. Kill me before I turn entirely back into Conan the Grammarian! cdh On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, You wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view. As I've always said, it boils down to what works for you because at the end of the day, you have to pay for the gear and you pay for what will serve your needs best. That was my point exactly. If you remember a few messages back, this all started with something like, the IPhone is the best, everybody should get one. My point was that it's useful for some people, but not for others, and as it's still really new, I don't really recomend clients go out and get one without looking really closely at their needs and how it stacks up to the offerings of windows mobile and simbian. Even among those two platforms we have so much choice now it's rediculous, and a phone that feels really good in one man's hand might not in another's. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-23, at 11:48 AM, Scott Howell wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view. As I've always said, it boils down to what works for you because at the end of the day, you have to pay for the gear and you pay for what will serve your needs best. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi CB, Have you seen the braille connect lines or the brailleno? We're talking about 20-30 sell displays that conveniently fit in a pocket, connect via bluetooth, and offer input as well as display fuctions. Some one was talking about carying an IPhone and a stream. This would be a little different, but not much. It's really really functional and nice. Thanks for all this other info. My last info came from candleshore blog which stated that you'd better carry around 2 or 3 spare batteries if you wanted to make it through the day as a mobile professional. Considdering there's what a 550 mhz processer in there or something I wasn't really all that surpriced. But the touch pro two offers about 6 days of non talk battery life, 12 or 13 hours talk time and has a 550 mhz processer which blew me right away. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-23, at 11:52 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: Wouldn't braille support kind of limit the utility of a pcket-sized portable device? While text to speech may not be as ideal, it's probably a lot easier to haul around. I haven't tried it but there is Voice of DAISY http://www.cypac.co.jp/vodi/index.html There is a GPS built in so the next step is a good accessible mapping application. Search on past threads about Navigon and a few others. The compass is also quite nice and accessible. One trick is to turn the screen backlight off. Save a bunch of power. Battery life otherwise depends on how you use it. With light use 3 days isn't that unusual. Heavy use will put it in the charger daily, especially GPS, wifi or GSM use. CB erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Anyone tried paring a hulux m1000 or an IBlue 737 with the thing? Oh, and hows the battery life? I can get a good 3 days out of my I-paq. If the IPhone is ready in all these particulars, I'll buy one in April, but last I heard, the product was still new, and although it works right enough, it doesn't stack up yet. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 4:59 PM, Cody wrote: I say quit the bitchin and buy a damn iPhone :p. best damn phone on the market and also for the price. can't think of anything the iPhone can't do that any other phone can do and more. now time to put some pants on after a nice hot shower and get something cold to drnk before heading out. Cody - Original Message - From: Tyler Littlefield ty...@tysdomain.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, Because I was an English major in graduate school, I can't help myself: You wrote, sometimes, There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view... This is subjective rather than objective points of view. An objective measurement of a computing device might be how quickly it sorts a set of items - this results in a metric which can be compared without user influence on the outcome. Subjective is, I like the iPhone because it feels really nice in my hand. which has no way to specifically define a metric for feels good so falls into subjectivity. Kill me before I turn entirely back into Conan the Grammarian! cdh On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Ah your correct and my error. THanks for pointing my mistake out, it will help me remember and improve. :) On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, Because I was an English major in graduate school, I can't help myself: You wrote, sometimes, There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view... This is subjective rather than objective points of view. An objective measurement of a computing device might be how quickly it sorts a set of items - this results in a metric which can be compared without user influence on the outcome. Subjective is, I like the iPhone because it feels really nice in my hand. which has no way to specifically define a metric for feels good so falls into subjectivity. Kill me before I turn entirely back into Conan the Grammarian! cdh On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Thanks for the reference, I will go check it out. On Dec 27, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote: If you really want to learn almost all of the important aspects of writing in the English language, the reference I use with frequency is Elements of Style, by Strunk and White. There is a no cost online version that you can find with google. For listserv posts, the grammar needn't be too great as long as your meaning can be easily derived. In business and other correspondence Professor Strunk and EB White have pulled my butt out of lingual disasters pretty often. cdh On Dec 27, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Ah your correct and my error. THanks for pointing my mistake out, it will help me remember and improve. :) On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, Because I was an English major in graduate school, I can't help myself: You wrote, sometimes, There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view... This is subjective rather than objective points of view. An objective measurement of a computing device might be how quickly it sorts a set of items - this results in a metric which can be compared without user influence on the outcome. Subjective is, I like the iPhone because it feels really nice in my hand. which has no way to specifically define a metric for feels good so falls into subjectivity. Kill me before I turn entirely back into Conan the Grammarian! cdh On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Chris, thanks for this! Now if we could just get people to use their spell-checkers! lol! Seriously though, info on resources such as the one on which you've posted, and the many conveniences built into the Mac OS for the alleviation of illiteracy, are truly welcomed here!… Smiles, CQ :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: If you really want to learn almost all of the important aspects of writing in the English language, the reference I use with frequency is Elements of Style, by Strunk and White. There is a no cost online version that you can find with google. For listserv posts, the grammar needn't be too great as long as your meaning can be easily derived. In business and other correspondence Professor Strunk and EB White have pulled my butt out of lingual disasters pretty often. cdh On Dec 27, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Ah your correct and my error. THanks for pointing my mistake out, it will help me remember and improve. :) On Dec 27, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, Because I was an English major in graduate school, I can't help myself: You wrote, sometimes, There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view... This is subjective rather than objective points of view. An objective measurement of a computing device might be how quickly it sorts a set of items - this results in a metric which can be compared without user influence on the outcome. Subjective is, I like the iPhone because it feels really nice in my hand. which has no way to specifically define a metric for feels good so falls into subjectivity. Kill me before I turn entirely back into Conan the Grammarian! cdh On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: There is no right or wrong answer here Erik, merely objective points of view -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: We better keep this going!
John, 1 message is enough to put your message across. I've had at least 4 of these. Please check your settings in your mail client. To make sure it's sending only one copy simon -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John André Netland Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 10:43 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try
RE: We better keep this going!
Ummm, have you heard of the KNFB reader mobile. Last time I checked, the iphone could not and would not support the knfb reader mobile. You also would find it hard texting while on the move by foot using a caine or a guide dog and trying to textwith the iphone in one hand! Which I know I can do with a symbian based phone. But their just my thoughts and I owned the Iphone for 2 months. Before giving it up for a nokia N86. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cody Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 11:00 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: We better keep this going! I say quit the bitchin and buy a damn iPhone :p. best damn phone on the market and also for the price. can't think of anything the iPhone can't do that any other phone can do and more. now time to put some pants on after a nice hot shower and get something cold to drnk before heading out. Cody - Original Message - From: Tyler Littlefield ty...@tysdomain.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi SImon, I'm only receiving one copy as best I can determine. I wonder if there is some issue with Google Groups. On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:33 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: John, 1 message is enough to put your message across. I've had at least 4 of these. Please check your settings in your mail client. To make sure it's sending only one copy simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: We better keep this going!
I agree that the bigger Your community is maybe the better response we might get from developers and Apple. But to just to get someone to switch over to the IPhone or Mac and giving them false info is not the way to do it. No matter what some of the list thinks the IPhone and Mac is not for everyone. You need to get what you are the most comfortable with and that will meet your needs. This is a personal decision. We should just be giving info not being a Apple sales Rep. Just my thoughts. Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jess Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: We better keep this going! Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: We better keep this going!
I agree we don't need to get into being a Apple sales Rep. We just need to give info and let the person make the decision! Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler Littlefield Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:58 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: We better keep this going! The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: We better keep this going!
Yes, give info but not a sale pitch. Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:51 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: We better keep this going! ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: We better keep this going!
Yes and it meets your needs great but it might not for everyone. So here again we need to give info and stay out of the sales department, unless you want to go to work for Apple! Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John André Netland Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:43 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone
Re: We better keep this going!
Tyler, please, your reading to much into my message, so I'm not going to further waste either of our time entertaining this piffle further. Despite the back and forth, I think we do agree on some points, but somewhere this has gotten off track and the issue has become quite muddy. Again, have a wonderful Holiday. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Cara, my only comment is thank you for stating what I was trying to say, but apparently not very clearly. So, you have a wonderful Holiday as well and no further from me on this topic. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Okay, guys, enough! Personally, as I read it, the original point was not necessarily to convert anyone to Apple. It was to establish that access out-of-the-box is a very desirable thing. I support this view whole-heartedly as do most (if not all) of us here. For some who may have funding from rehab organizations this level of access may be taken for granted, but for those whom choose to pay for their own tech solutions, the idea of universal access is definitely a welcome one. As well, for those living completely independently of sighted assistance, bolt-on solutions just don't cut it. -And, I'd posit, that this kind of scenario is merely somewhat of a 'pseudo' sense of independence. If your computer or phone crashes to the point that you need to rely on someone to help you simply for the fact that they are sighted, then, in a sense, how independent are you really? So, whether you love Microsoft, Apple, and any cell phone manufacturers, or the screen access solutions they entail, I think we can all agree that more / better / easier access is a terrific thing! Yes?… Thanks so much for such a great discussion, and I'd personally love to see this continue on Chris's VO BS list if Chris and ya'll are up for it. :) To everyone, I wish you and yours a truly lovely holiday season!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: defending? YOur flippent I'm better than you so go away attitude really doesn't say much for your position. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care about JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you choose to talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about it is what matters and that was pretty much my point. So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt
Re: We better keep this going!
Recently I went to a bible study at the home of a lady I didn't know very well. She had just gotten a Mac three days before and was having difficulty understanding how to access the applications she wanted to use. She took me to see her Mac and I turned on voiceover and showed her how to access her applications and explained about the dock and the finder. It was very cool to be able to go to someone's house and access their computer without needing extra software or a thumb drive or anything. Peggy Fleischer peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net Psalm 90 12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:15 PM, Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes jess your deffinitley right. It's amazing what apple has dun. It's deffinitley sweet to be able to walk into a apple store and use a computer or phone right on the show room flor with out having to install something to have actsess on it. I hope apple will keep up it's excessibility for years to come as well. On 2009-12-22, at 12:46 PM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Anyone tried paring a hulux m1000 or an IBlue 737 with the thing? Oh, and hows the battery life? I can get a good 3 days out of my I-paq. If the IPhone is ready in all these particulars, I'll buy one in April, but last I heard, the product was still new, and although it works right enough, it doesn't stack up yet. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 4:59 PM, Cody wrote: I say quit the bitchin and buy a damn iPhone :p. best damn phone on the market and also for the price. can't think of anything the iPhone can't do that any other phone can do and more. now time to put some pants on after a nice hot shower and get something cold to drnk before heading out. Cody - Original Message - From: Tyler Littlefield ty...@tysdomain.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send
Window-eyes mobile helper Re: We better keep this going!
Hi Friend, You seem like a good candidate for window-eyes mobile helper. This is a tool that automates the video intersept install and allows you to cary a working instalation of window-eyes, replete with settings on a usb flash drive. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 5:37 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Mike that is true and I can't tell you the number of times I've had to install Window-Eyes just to help someone with a PC problem. THen of course you have to tweak things to make sure the screen reader works properly, so loads of time wasted. :) On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm
Linux was Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, You wrote: I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. Well actually , ubuntoo and it's flavours talk out of the box, so if you had to work on a linux machine you might be OK. The other thing is, you can install linux on a flash drive. So, if you had to work on linux machines, you could build your own very lite install with the gui and speech and your favourite tools for diagnosiing system failures. You could then boot off the flash drive, get speech, and run tests, recover data, repair system files, and perform updates on the base system even if it were something other than ubuntoo. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit h that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at
Re: We better keep this going!
On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Why do we need a Daisy reader on the iPhone. If you want that, buy a Victor Stream. We don't need braille support either! If I want OCR, I'll use my computer. The only OCR on a phone is the one that runs on Symbian. Why would you want it anyway? The iPhone has a built-in GPS receiver, so no external one is needed. For GPS I use ATT Navigator, and it works quite well. I get a day to a day and a half out of my battery. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
A good example of why universal design is so important. Apple gets it but for various reasons (marketing, technical, historical) Windows is not on board yet. Hopefully someday it will get resolved. The downside of universal design is also what you cited. What if MS decided to license and bundle Jaws with every Windows so it would be pre-installed etc. A lot of NVDA and WindowEyes and brand X Y Z screen reader users would be torqued. There would be less incentive for Jaws to innovate since they were a technology lockin and the competitors would really have to be head and shoulders better to get people to buy them. It would be the browser wars all over again. You would have the lame screen reader equivalent of Internet Explorer and then lots of scrappy 3rd party ones that fight for mindshare through innovation, which would then just be cloned into the MS offering someday down the road for free. In Apple's case there wasn't an existing marketplace for screen readers so nobody's toes got stepped on and Apple has been pretty good about fixing and improving VO. I think Apple's model will be better in the long run but I'm not sure you could reproduce it in the Windows ecosystem. CB Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me
Re: We better keep this going!
Matt, I disagree and believe the iPhone would make an excellent platform for a DAISY reader for example. There is such an app, but what I read, it is much to new and limited to be the best possible solution. THe point is why buy a Victor Stream if you don't have too. Leveraging technology makes sense as reducing the number of devices and cost benefits the consumer. On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Matt Roberts wrote: On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Why do we need a Daisy reader on the iPhone. If you want that, buy a Victor Stream. We don't need braille support either! If I want OCR, I'll use my computer. The only OCR on a phone is the one that runs on Symbian. Why would you want it anyway? The iPhone has a built-in GPS receiver, so no external one is needed. For GPS I use ATT Navigator, and it works quite well. I get a day to a day and a half out of my battery. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
You're kidding me right? $500-$600 on an Iphone and then $350 for a stream? Get out'a here. Why would I want braille on my phone? Well because for one thing, I have it and use it, and don't want to retire my $6000 braille display just to own an iphone and look cool. It's faster for some things. It's private. it's quiet. It's nice for reading ebooks in braille. I have it now and like it. Why would I give it up? Is ATNT navigater limitted to one company? What will sprint users do or users like me in Canada who don't use ATNT? Can your gps give you complete info at the push of a button, upcoming streets, points of interest, custome POI's, busstops in locations that support the feature? Can you make a rout directly from your contact manager? Can you call a poi directly from the gps to get more information? My Windows mobile device does all this, I get nearly tripple the battery life out of it. I can connect a 64 channel receiver for woss quality even in overcast or erban canyon, and I can do a lot more but I don't use all the features. Do you need to pay extra for data and gps on this system you're using? I pay nothing. As far as OCR goes, it would come in handy for little things. I can't imagine snapping a book with it, but if it were fast and high quality enough I might. The thing is, I know people do want their phone to be a daisy reader and an OCR device because they tell me so all the time. When I'm picking out equipment for people, I get them what they need to be independent and productive. For some people that means the IPhone, but not for everybody by a long shot. No braille yet, personally for me that's a deal breaker. Not for most of my clients it isn't though, for them it may be the GPS, or the OCR, or they may just want a very cool and highly functional phone. In that case, the IPhone meets the need and off we go. Of course it's got to support CDMA before it will compete with windows mobile here in Canada. Rogers has made many many enemies here with it's nondesclosure, heavy fees and bad contracts. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-23, at 10:26 AM, Matt Roberts wrote: On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Why do we need a Daisy reader on the iPhone. If you want that, buy a Victor Stream. We don't need braille support either! If I want OCR, I'll use my computer. The only OCR on a phone is the one that runs on Symbian. Why would you want it anyway? The iPhone has a built-in GPS receiver, so no external one is needed. For GPS I use ATT Navigator, and it works quite well. I get a day to a day and a half out of my battery. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Wouldn't braille support kind of limit the utility of a pcket-sized portable device? While text to speech may not be as ideal, it's probably a lot easier to haul around. I haven't tried it but there is Voice of DAISY http://www.cypac.co.jp/vodi/index.html There is a GPS built in so the next step is a good accessible mapping application. Search on past threads about Navigon and a few others. The compass is also quite nice and accessible. One trick is to turn the screen backlight off. Save a bunch of power. Battery life otherwise depends on how you use it. With light use 3 days isn't that unusual. Heavy use will put it in the charger daily, especially GPS, wifi or GSM use. CB erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Anyone tried paring a hulux m1000 or an IBlue 737 with the thing? Oh, and hows the battery life? I can get a good 3 days out of my I-paq. If the IPhone is ready in all these particulars, I'll buy one in April, but last I heard, the product was still new, and although it works right enough, it doesn't stack up yet. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 4:59 PM, Cody wrote: I say quit the bitchin and buy a damn iPhone :p. best damn phone on the market and also for the price. can't think of anything the iPhone can't do that any other phone can do and more. now time to put some pants on after a nice hot shower and get something cold to drnk before heading out. Cody - Original Message - From: Tyler Littlefield ty...@tysdomain.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from
Re: We better keep this going!
I'm assuming you $500-$600 price you cite is including the full service telco plan since the devices themselves are $199-$299 depending on the model you get. In that case it's a bit disingenuous since a stream doesn't do phone stuff. Can you define triple battery life? Triple of what amount? GPS only provides latitude and longitude, it's the software that translates that into maps and POI. Nice thing is that being 'just software' means you can choose from a number of packages and over time they can improve them with just an update. What is your definition of complete POI information? It's hard to answer whether the iPhone does what you require without specifics. You can do a route from your contacts. Touching the address of a contact launches google maps. From there you tap Directions and the Start location is filled in as Current Location from the GPS. You could also type in another address to start from. Then tap Route and then change the view to list. I haven't bought a GPS app yet so I can't give specifics on how the POI stuff works. Last I search in the iTunes store there were 7 pages of GPS apps with 172 items per page. So you can get really specific stuff like the GPS navigator for Cedar Point amusement park. You just won't find that scale of variety causing such specificity on other platforms. What is WOSS, not to mention a 64 channel version? The standard ATT plan for iPhone is unlimited data. Like WiFi or Bluetooth, GPS doesn't rely on the telco network unless they need data to give you POI or something. There was a discussion thread on OCR in the past and it seemed that the main holdup for a KNFB Reader type app is the somewhat low resolution camera. Someday that issue should go away. One sore point with the iPhone in the states is that ATT has been criticized for poor service quality. Sounds like the FCC is looking into cracking down on the exclusive phone/provider deals so maybe this will go away in the future. The iPhone takes a standard SIMM card so it's not a technical problem and the web is rife with 'jailbreaking' sites. That said, different countries have different iPhone providers so it won't be ATT in Canda or Australia, just in the states. The nice thing that Apple put together in the iPhone is it is a very portable very connected generalized compute device with a simple consistent way to discover, purchase/download and install apps. A lot of other mobile platforms are weak in one of those areas. Not saying the iPhone doesn't have some weaknesses, but it seems to have less than most. CB erik burggraaf wrote: You're kidding me right? $500-$600 on an Iphone and then $350 for a stream? Get out'a here. Why would I want braille on my phone? Well because for one thing, I have it and use it, and don't want to retire my $6000 braille display just to own an iphone and look cool. It's faster for some things. It's private. it's quiet. It's nice for reading ebooks in braille. I have it now and like it. Why would I give it up? Is ATNT navigater limitted to one company? What will sprint users do or users like me in Canada who don't use ATNT? Can your gps give you complete info at the push of a button, upcoming streets, points of interest, custome POI's, busstops in locations that support the feature? Can you make a rout directly from your contact manager? Can you call a poi directly from the gps to get more information? My Windows mobile device does all this, I get nearly tripple the battery life out of it. I can connect a 64 channel receiver for woss quality even in overcast or erban canyon, and I can do a lot more but I don't use all the features. Do you need to pay extra for data and gps on this system you're using? I pay nothing. As far as OCR goes, it would come in handy for little things. I can't imagine snapping a book with it, but if it were fast and high quality enough I might. The thing is, I know people do want their phone to be a daisy reader and an OCR device because they tell me so all the time. When I'm picking out equipment for people, I get them what they need to be independent and productive. For some people that means the IPhone, but not for everybody by a long shot. No braille yet, personally for me that's a deal breaker. Not for most of my clients it isn't though, for them it may be the GPS, or the OCR, or they may just want a very cool and highly functional phone. In that case, the IPhone meets the need and off we go. Of course it's got to support CDMA before it will compete with windows mobile here in Canada. Rogers has made many many enemies here with it's nondesclosure, heavy fees and bad contracts. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-23, at 10:26 AM, Matt Roberts wrote: On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we
Re: We better keep this going!
One reason for wanting braille is if the person is both blind and deaf. On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Matt Roberts wrote: On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Why do we need a Daisy reader on the iPhone. If you want that, buy a Victor Stream. We don't need braille support either! If I want OCR, I'll use my computer. The only OCR on a phone is the one that runs on Symbian. Why would you want it anyway? The iPhone has a built-in GPS receiver, so no external one is needed. For GPS I use ATT Navigator, and it works quite well. I get a day to a day and a half out of my battery. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Ryan Mann rmann0...@gmail.com Get to the root of the problem with the US economy at http://www.dailypaul.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
write on brother I am dea-blind and I mis my pm 20 braille desplay thatis back home on my imac all of the best and may all have a grate 2010 maurice ham call kd0iko. On Dec 23, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Ryan Mann wrote: One reason for wanting braille is if the person is both blind and deaf. On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Matt Roberts wrote: On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:01 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Do we have braille support on the IPhone then? How about a daisy book reader? Is there a good OCR package yet? What are people using for gps on it these days? Why do we need a Daisy reader on the iPhone. If you want that, buy a Victor Stream. We don't need braille support either! If I want OCR, I'll use my computer. The only OCR on a phone is the one that runs on Symbian. Why would you want it anyway? The iPhone has a built-in GPS receiver, so no external one is needed. For GPS I use ATT Navigator, and it works quite well. I get a day to a day and a half out of my battery. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Ryan Mann rmann0...@gmail.com Get to the root of the problem with the US economy at http://www.dailypaul.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Linux was Re: We better keep this going!
Okay All, as some have said here, this is really getting OT. As well, many here are missing the point. I believe that many here are so entrenched in the status quo of disability-specific 'after thought' style solutions that the gist of the original post is being completely missed. It's not whether one can have access to a system if they first do A, B and C, and then jump through hoop D to make E happen, it's whether one can simply approach a device, pick it up, and use it. That's it! -Nothing more… This is not about whether something 'can be made accessible' it's about whether something 'is' accessible. This is the concept of universal access. Sure, any one of us is creative enough when we need to be, to either find a way to get something to behave the way we need it to, or to ask for help when it's appropriate, but the point is that this isn't the way things need to work in a more inclusive model of the world. Apple is currently the only mainstream manufacturer of computers, cell phones and music players that is working from this premise, thus the idea that Apple should be commended. -And they absolutely should be!… So, in light of this, rather than trying to emphasize that other -after-market- solutions exist, (which we all already know) might we simply discuss the concept itself, of universal access. Apple is doing it. Who else is? -Is anyone else? -Should they be? -Why or why not?… There are very good reasons here for recommending Apple products to people. -There are also other reasons why some may not want Apple products. However, the point here, is simply universal access. Would people recommend a product (no matter the manufacturer) which is born of this ideal?… Thanks for reading, All, and happiest of holidays to you and yours!!!… Smiles, CQ :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 23, 2009, at 6:37 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Hi, You wrote: I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. Well actually , ubuntoo and it's flavours talk out of the box, so if you had to work on a linux machine you might be OK. The other thing is, you can install linux on a flash drive. So, if you had to work on linux machines, you could build your own very lite install with the gui and speech and your favourite tools for diagnosiing system failures. You could then boot off the flash drive, get speech, and run tests, recover data, repair system files, and perform updates on the base system even if it were something other than ubuntoo. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-12-22, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was
We better keep this going!
Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, I agree. I got my iPhone two days ago as an early christmas gift, and as I'm going to England tomorrow, I wanted to make sure everything was fine. But I was amazed. I inserted the sim-card, plugged it into the USB, activated, registered, and set it all up including universal access. I was amazed at how easy it is. It just felt great not having to buy any separate software. People were shocked I could use it, but some of my sighted friends actually turned on VoiceOver on their own iphones to check it out. I absolutely love the iPhone. Sure, typing is definitely one of the hardest things to do, but on the same date I was sending e-mail. I'm sure you won't regret it. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Dec 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
I am encouraged to know that our Mac user population in the BVI community is steadily growing, and the sighted colleagues I've talked to here in Alaska are excited and the first thing I hear from them is, I have a parent or friend who is blind and this would be great for him and her and perhaps I could help him/her with the computer. And our rehab counselors are finally getting it! Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Dear Mac Friends, I 100% agree with Jess on this post. I love being able to walk into a store and play with Macs Iphones and Ipod Touches. Everyone who has an Apple Macintosh I tell them about Voiceover. I am planning on like many of you getting another Mac in the future. With me planning on going into education this will be a wonderful way to go! I have made lots of friend ships closer because when I talk with my sighted friends about the Mac they and I can talk about Voiceover and I don't have to go into a long explanation of what it is. I was at a party once, and I was having a conversation with someone about the Mac. They knew what Voiceover was and had played with it before. It was a wonderful conversation. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas. See you in January. Blessings, Ben King On Dec 22, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Yes jess your deffinitley right. It's amazing what apple has dun. It's deffinitley sweet to be able to walk into a apple store and use a computer or phone right on the show room flor with out having to install something to have actsess on it. I hope apple will keep up it's excessibility for years to come as well. On 2009-12-22, at 12:46 PM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You
Re: We better keep this going!
Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I
Re: We better keep this going!
Hi, The iPhone is great, but a really important distinction to make is that it is not the perfect solution for everyone. Some people love the phones they already have, not to mention computers. And if they're happy with it, including the issues the equipment might give them once in a while, that's great. There'd be no reason for them to buy something new. It'd just be a waste of money. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:59 PM, Cody wrote: I say quit the bitchin and buy a damn iPhone :p. best damn phone on the market and also for the price. can't think of anything the iPhone can't do that any other phone can do and more. now time to put some pants on after a nice hot shower and get something cold to drnk before heading out. Cody - Original Message - From: Tyler Littlefield ty...@tysdomain.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: We better keep this going! Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit
Re: We better keep this going!
Mike that is true and I can't tell you the number of times I've had to install Window-Eyes just to help someone with a PC problem. THen of course you have to tweak things to make sure the screen reader works properly, so loads of time wasted. :) On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for
Re: We better keep this going!
One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not with that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Tyler, I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the connection. Can you elaborate? On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the
Re: We better keep this going!
Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit h that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather than saying You can use this in the store. Because in reality it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to
Re: We better keep this going!
you're right, and had you been discussing any screen reader/prosthetic substitute for site, you'd still be right:) As users regardless of our preferences, we should help the developers keep adding useful features removing dumb ones and cleaning up interfaces that are no longer applicable. On 2009-12-22, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it needs help with. On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: Hi folks, Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? Jes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: We better keep this going!
Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care about JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you choose to talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about it is what matters and that was pretty much my point. So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit h that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple store. I still stand by what I've said
Re: We better keep this going!
defending? YOur flippent I'm better than you so go away attitude really doesn't say much for your position. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care about JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you choose to talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about it is what matters and that was pretty much my point. So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. Just some of my thoughts on this. Mike. On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: Hi, Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit h that kind of freedom. Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! John André On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not I still need help. While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to tell someone
Re: We better keep this going!
Okay, guys, enough! Personally, as I read it, the original point was not necessarily to convert anyone to Apple. It was to establish that access out-of-the-box is a very desirable thing. I support this view whole-heartedly as do most (if not all) of us here. For some who may have funding from rehab organizations this level of access may be taken for granted, but for those whom choose to pay for their own tech solutions, the idea of universal access is definitely a welcome one. As well, for those living completely independently of sighted assistance, bolt-on solutions just don't cut it. -And, I'd posit, that this kind of scenario is merely somewhat of a 'pseudo' sense of independence. If your computer or phone crashes to the point that you need to rely on someone to help you simply for the fact that they are sighted, then, in a sense, how independent are you really? So, whether you love Microsoft, Apple, and any cell phone manufacturers, or the screen access solutions they entail, I think we can all agree that more / better / easier access is a terrific thing! Yes?… Thanks so much for such a great discussion, and I'd personally love to see this continue on Chris's VO BS list if Chris and ya'll are up for it. :) To everyone, I wish you and yours a truly lovely holiday season!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: defending? YOur flippent I'm better than you so go away attitude really doesn't say much for your position. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care about JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you choose to talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about it is what matters and that was pretty much my point. So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole I can go anywhere and use it, doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was just saying. CB Michael Huckabay wrote: Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then
