Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:30:06 -0500 "WILTON" wrote: > 'Hope it goes well. Thanks, Wilton. > > I have been off preparing for teaching tomorrow, more a job than I > > expected because I'm essentially starting from scratch and don't even > > have a copy of the textbook! > > > > I'll not continue the discussion, first, because I still need to > > complete my syllabus, and, second, because I'm sure others want to > > quit. > > > > > > Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
'Hope it goes well. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:31:10 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond wrote: Hey, it wasn't that long after all. I do want to tip the hat to Grant, Craig and Larry for being civil with this, something that seems altogether to rare in the current public discourse. Thank you. I have been off preparing for teaching tomorrow, more a job than I expected because I'm essentially starting from scratch and don't even have a copy of the textbook! I'll not continue the discussion, first, because I still need to complete my syllabus, and, second, because I'm sure others want to quit. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
My Alpenlite 5th. wheel carries 100 gal. in the fresh water tank plus the 10 gal. in the HW heater. It is indeed a lot of extra weight to pull! Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer At 8+ pounds per gallon, a large storage water heater would be a problem in a motor home on the move. Grant wrote: > With the > motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size wise.. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
At 8+ pounds per gallon, a large storage water heater would be a problem in a motor home on the move. Grant wrote: > With the > motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size wise.. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:31:10 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond wrote: > Hey, it wasn't that long after all. I do want to tip the hat to Grant, > Craig and Larry for being civil with this, something that seems > altogether to rare in the current public discourse. Thank you. I have been off preparing for teaching tomorrow, more a job than I expected because I'm essentially starting from scratch and don't even have a copy of the textbook! I'll not continue the discussion, first, because I still need to complete my syllabus, and, second, because I'm sure others want to quit. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. I don't think it holds true for anything, unless he's saying a low end old one has a thicker longer lasting tank than a low end new one. The new electric ones are foam spray insulated, so there's less heat loss than the old fiberglass insulated ones. It's possible the heating elements are heavier in the old ones. When I wanted a sacrificial magnesium rod for my parents' 25 year old heater, I bought it from Amazon. Mitch. Being the gas co guy, the subject was GAS water hotters. The old ones had cast iron burners who last a long time. New ones have crappy tin burners, idiot/goobermnt controls, and only last 1-10 years. I bought a new water heater and it would not run. Had to get a new gas valve under warranty. Then it sprung a leak within a year. Got a second one under warranty. The PT valve on that had to be replaced a couple of times. So far, other than that, its ok, but probably about to ccrap out. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On 21/01/2014 5:31 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. Does the same advice hold true for electric hot water tank? If so, please tell me where to purchase new calrod for the old hw tank here. I don't think it holds true for anything, unless he's saying a low end old one has a thicker longer lasting tank than a low end new one. The new electric ones are foam spray insulated, so there's less heat loss than the old fiberglass insulated ones. It's possible the heating elements are heavier in the old ones. When I wanted a sacrificial magnesium rod for my parents' 25 year old heater, I bought it from Amazon. Mitch. ___ A quick google type search indicates that calrod probably refers to the element. Again, should not be difficult to get or replace. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. Does the same advice hold true for electric hot water tank? If so, please tell me where to purchase new calrod for the old hw tank here. I don't think it holds true for anything, unless he's saying a low end old one has a thicker longer lasting tank than a low end new one. The new electric ones are foam spray insulated, so there's less heat loss than the old fiberglass insulated ones. It's possible the heating elements are heavier in the old ones. When I wanted a sacrificial magnesium rod for my parents' 25 year old heater, I bought it from Amazon. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On 21/01/2014 4:40 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. Does the same advice hold true for electric hot water tank? If so, please tell me where to purchase new calrod for the old hw tank here. Thanks. mao ___ I assume you are referring to the sacrificial anode. If so I buy them at Home Depot locally. Not expensive - under $20 last time. Basically a magnesium rod formed around a steel wire with a pipe plug on the top. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
The things are really good for on demand, point of use. I have a very long run from the water cooker to the master bath. For a few years I used a circulating pump, but that just made the cold water warm, and it still took a few minutes for reasonably hot water to show up. Best solution would have be to locate on demand to that bathroom. Turned out is was not worth the thousand bucks to make it happen. clay On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:53 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Dan Penoff wrote: >> I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of >> which are happy with it. > > The power factor on an electric tank heater is usually about .92, so they > figure 8% of the cost is heat loss from the storage tank. If the tankless is > at all annoying to use, you won't want to put up with it for a potential 8% > savings. > > I wonder how well a hybrid would do in a 50 degree basement. > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Only according to the ex wife's lawyer... ; On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: > Grant wrote: > > With the > > motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size > wise.. > > > > Ah... so you're the guy with the million$ motorhome. > mao > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Grant wrote: > With the > motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size wise.. > Ah... so you're the guy with the million$ motorhome. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Dieselhead wrote: > The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the > best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do > everything she can to keep it going. Does the same advice hold true for electric hot water tank? If so, please tell me where to purchase new calrod for the old hw tank here. Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I spent a weekend in a cabin with one. Could have been a house, but location made it cabin. Three bed, two bath. Full size kitchen with all appliances. The thing was undersized and you had to space usage. Since it was all cold water flowing in, when another person used the water, you got a jolt. Cold water use dropped pressure and toilets really made it unhappy to be showering. As long as nobody was showering, you had fairly good hot water in the kitchen. clay On Jan 21, 2014, at 5:01 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > yes, very erudite and stimulating. > > Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot > water systems ( whole house) ? > On Jan 20, 2014 11:05 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of folks. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Grant... >>> >> >> Ayup >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
> yes, very erudite and stimulating. > And some who use fancy words Some who prefer the small of gasoline in the morning. Some who love the smell of a good Diesel in the morning! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
GE had some good white papers on their use in such environments on their web site a couple of years ago. Like a regular heat pump, ambient air temperature will have a direct effect on efficiency. A lot of users north of the Mason-Dixon Line installed them in conditioned areas, thereby maintaining ambients in the 60-70 degree range. Mine is in my garage, so there would be boatloads of heat available, and I would get the benefit of the cooling there as well. Dan Sent from my iPad > On Jan 21, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > > Dan Penoff wrote: >> I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of >> which are happy with it. > > The power factor on an electric tank heater is usually about .92, so they > figure 8% of the cost is heat loss from the storage tank. If the tankless is > at all annoying to use, you won't want to put up with it for a potential 8% > savings. > > I wonder how well a hybrid would do in a 50 degree basement. > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I am currently using gas fired tankless water heaters in both the motorhome and at the ranch house. Now that I have them, I love them. In each case, ignition is triggered by a piezeo electric turbine which lights the burner as soon as water flow is sensed. No pilot light required. It only makes hot water as you need it, and it makes as much as you need. They never run out of hot water. Initial cost is high, but convenience is higher. One of my pet peeves is to finish a shower with cold water. Tankless , that never happens. With the motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size wise.. now.. the water source is the only limit.. Gas usage is minimized as well. Overall.. very happy. Motor home= short runs of pipe= minimal loss Warm climate helps too. tankless makes sense Not sure of the size of your house, but I'm betting it is not a 5,000 sq ft mcmansion. large new houses with continuous circulating hot water to offset the tankless lag in cold climates; tankless makes no sense, other than the brag factor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Dan Penoff wrote: I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of which are happy with it. The power factor on an electric tank heater is usually about .92, so they figure 8% of the cost is heat loss from the storage tank. If the tankless is at all annoying to use, you won't want to put up with it for a potential 8% savings. I wonder how well a hybrid would do in a 50 degree basement. Mitch. I think a guideline is the ratio of $ spent heating vs $ spent cooling. In the south, where the big dollars are air conditioning, the hybrids might make sense, if the cooling will be retained in the house. In the north where the primary cost is heating, I think a std. water heater makes more sense, as the "waste" is heat used to heat the basement or house. In a small house where the water using core is close, a tankless might make sense. Particularly in warmer climates so the lag water might be used in place of wasted. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I am currently using gas fired tankless water heaters in both the motorhome and at the ranch house. Now that I have them, I love them. In each case, ignition is triggered by a piezeo electric turbine which lights the burner as soon as water flow is sensed. No pilot light required. It only makes hot water as you need it, and it makes as much as you need. They never run out of hot water. Initial cost is high, but convenience is higher. One of my pet peeves is to finish a shower with cold water. Tankless , that never happens. With the motorhome, a 10 gallon hot water tank type was about the limit size wise.. now.. the water source is the only limit.. Gas usage is minimized as well. Overall.. very happy. On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: > I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of > which are happy with it. > > Have you looked at the hybrid tank heaters? That's the way I'm going when > I need my next water heater. > > They are essentially a heat pump that draws heat from the ambient air and > use it to heat the water. Very efficient. > > Dan > > > On Jan 21, 2014, at 8:01 AM, Andrew Strasfogel > wrote: > > > > yes, very erudite and stimulating. > > > > Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot > > water systems ( whole house) ? > >> On Jan 20, 2014 11:05 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of > folks. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Grant... > >>> > >> > >> Ayup > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Dan Penoff wrote: I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of which are happy with it. The power factor on an electric tank heater is usually about .92, so they figure 8% of the cost is heat loss from the storage tank. If the tankless is at all annoying to use, you won't want to put up with it for a potential 8% savings. I wonder how well a hybrid would do in a 50 degree basement. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I know a couple of people who have done the electric tankless, neither of which are happy with it. Have you looked at the hybrid tank heaters? That's the way I'm going when I need my next water heater. They are essentially a heat pump that draws heat from the ambient air and use it to heat the water. Very efficient. Dan > On Jan 21, 2014, at 8:01 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > > yes, very erudite and stimulating. > > Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot > water systems ( whole house) ? >> On Jan 20, 2014 11:05 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of folks. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Grant... >>> >> >> Ayup >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Dieselhead wrote: What the home shows on the telly show that they do to offset this is to keep hot water circulating constantly through the whole 5-10,000 sq ft house. Hardly energy efficient. Again, it offsets the perceived savings, and probably more than negates it. I can guarantee that pipe heat loss exceeds tank heat loss by a huge margin, unless you foam all the cavities with pipes in them, and I've never heard of anybody doing that. If the pipes and tank are in conditioned space and you're paying to heat the house, the loss is pretty much zero. If you're paying to cool the house, then the loss gets multiplied. Heat pump water heaters are awesome, if you live in Florida or Dallas. Put the tank in conditioned space, pay for cooling, get free hot water. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
yes, very erudite and stimulating. I investigated them for business use. For the throughput we needed, it would take 20 of them in series/parallel. I talked directly with the engineers for the ones made in USA. What they suggested was using tankless to preheat water to a tank type. There is a lag before you get hot water. THis wastes water, and offsets the perceived savings. What the home shows on the telly show that they do to offset this is to keep hot water circulating constantly through the whole 5-10,000 sq ft house. Hardly energy efficient. Again, it offsets the perceived savings, and probably more than negates it. I ended up getting a 250,000 btu tank heater. It only lasted a year. To replace it we found a huge used commercial on demand heater from the local boiler company. It is a 3 million BTU heater throttled back to a million BTU. It keeps up with demand, and won't crap out in a year. It is built like a tank. It is shut off when we dont need hot water. Bottom line, for homes use, increased water use and/or increased energy use offset potential savings. Add higher installed price, and it appears that a tank heater is better for the long haul. The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. I put a new gas valve on it a couple years ago for her, and it is working fine now. I think it is about 40 years old. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
yes, very erudite and stimulating. Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot water systems ( whole house) ? On Jan 20, 2014 11:05 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of folks. >> >> Thanks, >> Grant... >> > > Ayup > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of folks. Thanks, Grant... Ayup ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Rick wrote: > All boy children on the planet get vasectomies soon after birth. All girl children get tubes tied soon after birth. > Snip Well.. that certainly answers ALL questions about what to get the Grandchildren for Christmas.. Using the powers of logic , based on fact, I can see also it would totally cure all of societies problems in one generation. Yep.. perfect solution wait.. how does the specie survive... ohhh well... "What difference does it make" This in an interesting discussion. It somehow went from abortion to gay marriage... [one wonders how gay marriage has abortion as an issue]. Lots of talk about gay marriage.. why has no news media covered gay divorce? That presents a special set of problems, doesn't it? Isn't it nice to own Mercedes cars, that seldom break? It gives us time to discuss the problems of the world.. I really appreciate the good minds on this forum.. great bunch of folks. Thanks, Grant... On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Mountain Man wrote: > Rick wrote: > > All boy children on the planet get vasectomies soon after birth. All > girl children get tubes tied soon after birth. > > > > For sure. > That is the way to end enjoyment of the highest order. The gamble is > part of the attraction. > mao > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Thats probably the most sensible answer I've ever seen. Thanks Rick. -Curt Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:05:19 -0800 From: Rick Knoble To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:31:10 -0800 > From: curtlud...@yahoo.com > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer > > I don't understand "gay rights" because I don't understand discrimination. I > don't understand the fight over gay marriage because I don't see why anybody > could think 2 people of the same sex can't be just as good a family as 2 > people of different genders. It is my theory that the impetus behind the gay marriage laws are the attorneys. The "traditional" marriage is on the way out, so to drum up business they rile up the LBGT community, so they will have job justification in a couple years. I posted my theory as a question to "Gay Larry" on Banned, who is gay and an attorney, and he figured I had an interesting idea... Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Well said, thank you. Following that same line of fact based logic. The host organism for the new life, in this case the woman's womb, supplys both food and safe environment for this new life to develop. Following that line of thought, post birth, this same new life requires both food and safe environment supplied by same mother [and father] for a number of years before that new life is self supporting and self sustaining [ever feed a teen age kid ? ] Logic, based on fact, would ask the question: What would our present society do to that same mother [and father] if they fail to provide life necessary elements to that same child post birth? What penalty is then imposed, one minute post birth, if the mother, or any other live person, terminates that new life? Then comes the question. Which of the 58,000,000 abortions since Rowe v Wade failed that same test? Then comes the question: If those same 58,000,000 individuals were now working taxpayers, what impact would that have on the Social Security Trust Fund ? Would their incomes and payments support the crushing national debt? Pay for social programs? Contribute to the production of goods and services to society? All questions that require fact, thought, and logic to extrapolate. All issues that are not brought to the discussion in the 5 second sound bite of "Womans Rights". Are we really an evolved civilization that somehow justifies the wholesale death of 58,000,000 of our children, pre-birth? Respectfully... Grant... You are just not a progressive professor ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Rick wrote: > All boy children on the planet get vasectomies soon after birth. All girl > children get tubes tied soon after birth. > For sure. That is the way to end enjoyment of the highest order. The gamble is part of the attraction. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Grant wrote: > Then comes the question: If those same 58,000,000 individuals were now > working taxpayers, what impact would that have on the Social Security Trust > Fund ? Would their incomes and payments support the crushing national > debt? Pay for social programs? Contribute to the production of goods and > services to society? We would be in worse situation. Why would 15,000.000 persons quit the task of hunting for a job today if there are plenty of jobs to pay for social programs. Another 58,000,000 would only add to the existing 15,000,000 and probably decrease the labor participation rate to 48%. We need fewer persons in this country, not more. Go put logic to those realities. ...traditional banned closure... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Roger, Thank you, point well made. However, to date, it still requires the male contribution to make life happen. Frankly, I'm insulted that the "woman's movement" has selectively excluded the male from the process. If the child is taken to term and born.. that same sperm donor is held fully responsible for the child's care, safety, and feeding... for the next 18 yrs... why is that same father excluded from the life/death decision of abortion? If the woman has the right to cause death to the child while she is provider of support in the womb, by that same logic, then should the father have the right to terminate life after birth when he becomes provider of support for the child? Facts and logic would seem to dictate that unilateral inclusion of the father, wouldn't it? Based on the current usage of judicial logic. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > Craig / Grant, > Two men "arguing" about women's rights regarding abortion. What's wrong > with this picture? Maybe we should do root cause analysis. All or at least > men with lack of control / responsibility issues should all be given a > vasectomy. That way you won't have all the unwanted cell clusters that > result in abortions. I'm just posing an alternative. You guys keep talking > facts. This issue is about religion and personal freedom of choice...facts > will never really fit into that sort of discussion. There are a lot more > points we could debate, but since I'm not a female, I don't see any real, > productive value. > Best Wishes, > Roger > Roger Hale > Dinnerware Classics, Inc. > Monroe, Ga. > 770-267-0850 > www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) > www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Rick wrote: > That is an uncommon combination of traits that this list has more of gathered > in one forum than most, I suppose. > ... > If the war on poverty broke up the AA family, you can bet you last dollar, > someone had the foresight to plan it that way. > The kudos are nice. But I suspect your suggestion that conspiracy or planning is behind the politics is not consistent with the character of the kudos? i.e. conspiracy is not wise, most conspiracy is unfounded, merely suggestive, and usually mocked as foolish, no? Too bad because much of the conspiracy suggestions provide open minds grist to ponder and trust less of gov't like the founders suggested is wise - wise not to trust gov't. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:01:02 + > From: roger...@comcast.net > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer All or at least men with lack of control / responsibility issues should all be given a vasectomy. That way you won't have all the unwanted cell clusters that result in abortions. Solution. All boy children on the planet get vasectomies soon after birth. All girl children get tubes tied soon after birth. No more abortion. In 100 years, no man made global warming/cooling/climate chance. All of humanities problems solved. /sarc I share Georges view on climate change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr4n4&list=FL6MLF4zQxPMsmj789nW9qGg&index=50 Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:31:10 -0800 > From: curtlud...@yahoo.com > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer > > I don't understand "gay rights" because I don't understand discrimination. I > don't understand the fight over gay marriage because I don't see why anybody > could think 2 people of the same sex can't be just as good a family as 2 > people of different genders. It is my theory that the impetus behind the gay marriage laws are the attorneys. The "traditional" marriage is on the way out, so to drum up business they rile up the LBGT community, so they will have job justification in a couple years. I posted my theory as a question to "Gay Larry" on Banned, who is gay and an attorney, and he figured I had an interesting idea... Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
This started as a reply just to Grant but I guess its becoming an omnibus, one very long reply instead of several repetitious ones. Why does it have to be a father? What is it about a Y chromosome that makes a man required for a "family"? I don't understand "gay rights" because I don't understand discrimination. I don't understand the fight over gay marriage because I don't see why anybody could think 2 people of the same sex can't be just as good a family as 2 people of different genders. Leave your religion at the door please because as soon as you step in with it I'll start pointing to all the horrible things done in the name of God. If your God is so great get priests to stop diddling children before you tell me same sex marriage is bad. When people talk about the "good old days of the American family" they told talk about the beatings or shortened lifespan. They don't remember polio and measles and rubella or whooping cough. The halo where a kid went through the windshield. Yes we have had open markets, look at the industrial revolution where the workers had no rights and people were ground down until they revolted. I agree that our current markets are surely overly restrictive but removing all the restrictions will just take us back to a world blackened by coal soot. To deny human nature (which is to rape the land and to hell with the consequences) is to deny thousands of years of history. Hey, it wasn't that long after all. I do want to tip the hat to Grant, Craig and Larry for being civil with this, something that seems altogether to rare in the current public discourse. -Curt Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:22:54 -0700 From: G Mann To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well said, thank you. Following that same line of fact based logic. The host organism for the new life, in this case the woman's womb, supplys both food and safe environment for this new life to develop. Following that line of thought, post birth, this same new life requires both food and safe environment supplied by same mother [and father] for a number of years before that new life is self supporting and self sustaining [ever feed a teen age kid ? ] Logic, based on fact, would ask the question: What would our present society do to that same mother [and father] if they fail to provide life necessary elements to that same child post birth? What penalty is then imposed, one minute post birth, if the mother, or any other live person, terminates that new life? Then comes the question. Which of the 58,000,000 abortions since Rowe v Wade failed that same test? Then comes the question: If those same 58,000,000 individuals were now working taxpayers, what impact would that have on the Social Security Trust Fund ? Would their incomes and payments support the crushing national debt? Pay for social programs? Contribute to the production of goods and services to society? All questions that require fact, thought, and logic to extrapolate. All issues that are not brought to the discussion in the 5 second sound bite of "Womans Rights". Are we really an evolved civilization that somehow justifies the wholesale death of 58,000,000 of our children, pre-birth? Respectfully... Grant... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Craig / Grant, Two men "arguing" about women's rights regarding abortion. What's wrong with this picture? Maybe we should do root cause analysis. All or at least men with lack of control / responsibility issues should all be given a vasectomy. That way you won't have all the unwanted cell clusters that result in abortions. I'm just posing an alternative. You guys keep talking facts. This issue is about religion and personal freedom of choice...facts will never really fit into that sort of discussion. There are a lot more points we could debate, but since I'm not a female, I don't see any real, productive value. Best Wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Just a further thought. Someone do the math on this please. Presumed living population of USA via last census is 312 million... reported abortions post Rowe v Wade is 58 million. What, in real percentage, does that represent to the population? To the work force? To the number of males v female breeding pool? etc etc etc. It would be of interest to see those numbers, based on solid research, not emotional sound bites, just once. Anyone here enough of a research driven, number cruncher, scientist to dig those out? On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:22 AM, G Mann wrote: > Well said, thank you. > > Following that same line of fact based logic. The host organism for the > new life, in this case the woman's womb, supplys both food and safe > environment for this new life to develop. Following that line of thought, > post birth, this same new life requires both food and safe environment > supplied by same mother [and father] for a number of years before that new > life is self supporting and self sustaining [ever feed a teen age kid ? ] > > Logic, based on fact, would ask the question: What would our present > society do to that same mother [and father] if they fail to provide life > necessary elements to that same child post birth? What penalty is then > imposed, one minute post birth, if the mother, or any other live person, > terminates that new life? > > Then comes the question. Which of the 58,000,000 abortions since Rowe v > Wade failed that same test? > > Then comes the question: If those same 58,000,000 individuals were now > working taxpayers, what impact would that have on the Social Security Trust > Fund ? Would their incomes and payments support the crushing national > debt? Pay for social programs? Contribute to the production of goods and > services to society? > > All questions that require fact, thought, and logic to extrapolate. All > issues that are not brought to the discussion in the 5 second sound bite of > "Womans Rights". Are we really an evolved civilization that somehow > justifies the wholesale death of 58,000,000 of our children, pre-birth? > > Respectfully... > > Grant... > > > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Craig wrote: > >> On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:08 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond >> wrote: >> >> > Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells >> > but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing >> > anything is murder. >> >> Yes, calling them "self-regenerating cells" is a logical mis-step and >> leads to incorrect conclusions. >> >> The truth is that a male human has 46 chromosomes in all of his cells, >> except for sperm, which have 23. A female human has 46 chromosomes in all >> of her cells except for ovum, which have 23. When a sperm and an ovum >> unite, the combination again has 46 chromosomes and is a proper human >> cell capable of dividing and continuing life. Note, however, that since it >> got half of its chromosomes from its father and half of its chromosomes >> from its mother, it is a TOTALLY NEW HUMAN. >> >> Yes, a human embryo, the initial stages of a human life, is dependent upon >> its mother for protection and nurishment. The mother's womb is designed to >> provide the proper environment for a developing baby to live. It's not >> unlike someone in a coma who is dependent upon a hospital and its >> machines and supplies for a proper environment to live. >> >> You are right, though, that unlawful taking of human life is murder. >> The lawful taking of human life includes self-defense. NOTE: This is not >> limited to firearms as mentioned in other threads, but also in the case >> of where a pregnant woman's life is in danger. (Note: LIFE not HEALTH, >> which poor Supreme Court decisions have conflated with anything a woman >> and her doctor might consider to cause her mental anguish.) Terminating >> an ectopic pregnancy where the embryo attached to fallopian tubes does >> endanger a woman's life, for example, does meet the criterion. >> >> >> > Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no >> > political platform either way and draws interesting conclusions >> > including: Abortion drives DOWN crime. >> > >> > >> > I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they >> > try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even >> > found in places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates >> > rise. Its simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to >> > become criminals... >> >> This is symptomatic of the general decline and degredation of our >> society, particularly in the black community. Margaret Sanger, the >> founder of Planned Parenthood, openly planned to target black >> communities for ethnic cleansing (there is another term for it, but I >> cannot think of it right now). Planned Parenthood and "The War on >> Poverty" have had a disastrous effect on the black community. In Martin >> Luther King, Jr.'s time, blacks were very religious.
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Well said, thank you. Following that same line of fact based logic. The host organism for the new life, in this case the woman's womb, supplys both food and safe environment for this new life to develop. Following that line of thought, post birth, this same new life requires both food and safe environment supplied by same mother [and father] for a number of years before that new life is self supporting and self sustaining [ever feed a teen age kid ? ] Logic, based on fact, would ask the question: What would our present society do to that same mother [and father] if they fail to provide life necessary elements to that same child post birth? What penalty is then imposed, one minute post birth, if the mother, or any other live person, terminates that new life? Then comes the question. Which of the 58,000,000 abortions since Rowe v Wade failed that same test? Then comes the question: If those same 58,000,000 individuals were now working taxpayers, what impact would that have on the Social Security Trust Fund ? Would their incomes and payments support the crushing national debt? Pay for social programs? Contribute to the production of goods and services to society? All questions that require fact, thought, and logic to extrapolate. All issues that are not brought to the discussion in the 5 second sound bite of "Womans Rights". Are we really an evolved civilization that somehow justifies the wholesale death of 58,000,000 of our children, pre-birth? Respectfully... Grant... On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Craig wrote: > On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:08 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond > wrote: > > > Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells > > but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing > > anything is murder. > > Yes, calling them "self-regenerating cells" is a logical mis-step and > leads to incorrect conclusions. > > The truth is that a male human has 46 chromosomes in all of his cells, > except for sperm, which have 23. A female human has 46 chromosomes in all > of her cells except for ovum, which have 23. When a sperm and an ovum > unite, the combination again has 46 chromosomes and is a proper human > cell capable of dividing and continuing life. Note, however, that since it > got half of its chromosomes from its father and half of its chromosomes > from its mother, it is a TOTALLY NEW HUMAN. > > Yes, a human embryo, the initial stages of a human life, is dependent upon > its mother for protection and nurishment. The mother's womb is designed to > provide the proper environment for a developing baby to live. It's not > unlike someone in a coma who is dependent upon a hospital and its > machines and supplies for a proper environment to live. > > You are right, though, that unlawful taking of human life is murder. > The lawful taking of human life includes self-defense. NOTE: This is not > limited to firearms as mentioned in other threads, but also in the case > of where a pregnant woman's life is in danger. (Note: LIFE not HEALTH, > which poor Supreme Court decisions have conflated with anything a woman > and her doctor might consider to cause her mental anguish.) Terminating > an ectopic pregnancy where the embryo attached to fallopian tubes does > endanger a woman's life, for example, does meet the criterion. > > > > Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no > > political platform either way and draws interesting conclusions > > including: Abortion drives DOWN crime. > > > > > > I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they > > try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even > > found in places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates > > rise. Its simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to > > become criminals... > > This is symptomatic of the general decline and degredation of our > society, particularly in the black community. Margaret Sanger, the > founder of Planned Parenthood, openly planned to target black > communities for ethnic cleansing (there is another term for it, but I > cannot think of it right now). Planned Parenthood and "The War on > Poverty" have had a disastrous effect on the black community. In Martin > Luther King, Jr.'s time, blacks were very religious. He, afterall, was a > pastor. The communists tried to inflitrate his group and could not > because they were so dedicated to Christianity and the truly righteous > way of doing things. > > In the years since "The War on Poverty" started [hundreds of billions, if > not trillions, of dollars have been spent on fighting poverty -- poverty > won] and the State stepped in to usurp the place of the Church, black > husbands have been driven from their homes and black children have been > left fatherless, with black "welfare queens" being the most conspicuous > result, who are paid to keep producing children without resident fathers > and husbands. This has fractured the black family an
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On Jan 19, 2014, at 11:01 PM, "Craig" wrote: > Enough for now. I need to let my blood pressure come back down. Quite eloquently put. It's pleasing to hear an argument from a gentleman who is learned, articulate, and wise. That is an uncommon combination of traits that this list has more of gathered in one forum than most, I suppose. About the only thing that I can think of that I would add, is that there are no such things as "unintended consequences" in politics (i.e.; law making), in my opinion. If the war on poverty broke up the AA family, you can bet you last dollar, someone had the foresight to plan it that way. You would think with the laws of averages, some of these "unintended consequences" would work in the common mans favor. They don't. Ever. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:08 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond wrote: > Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells > but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing > anything is murder. Yes, calling them "self-regenerating cells" is a logical mis-step and leads to incorrect conclusions. The truth is that a male human has 46 chromosomes in all of his cells, except for sperm, which have 23. A female human has 46 chromosomes in all of her cells except for ovum, which have 23. When a sperm and an ovum unite, the combination again has 46 chromosomes and is a proper human cell capable of dividing and continuing life. Note, however, that since it got half of its chromosomes from its father and half of its chromosomes from its mother, it is a TOTALLY NEW HUMAN. Yes, a human embryo, the initial stages of a human life, is dependent upon its mother for protection and nurishment. The mother's womb is designed to provide the proper environment for a developing baby to live. It's not unlike someone in a coma who is dependent upon a hospital and its machines and supplies for a proper environment to live. You are right, though, that unlawful taking of human life is murder. The lawful taking of human life includes self-defense. NOTE: This is not limited to firearms as mentioned in other threads, but also in the case of where a pregnant woman's life is in danger. (Note: LIFE not HEALTH, which poor Supreme Court decisions have conflated with anything a woman and her doctor might consider to cause her mental anguish.) Terminating an ectopic pregnancy where the embryo attached to fallopian tubes does endanger a woman's life, for example, does meet the criterion. > Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no > political platform either way and draws interesting conclusions > including: Abortion drives DOWN crime. > > > I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they > try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even > found in places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates > rise. Its simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to > become criminals... This is symptomatic of the general decline and degredation of our society, particularly in the black community. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, openly planned to target black communities for ethnic cleansing (there is another term for it, but I cannot think of it right now). Planned Parenthood and "The War on Poverty" have had a disastrous effect on the black community. In Martin Luther King, Jr.'s time, blacks were very religious. He, afterall, was a pastor. The communists tried to inflitrate his group and could not because they were so dedicated to Christianity and the truly righteous way of doing things. In the years since "The War on Poverty" started [hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars have been spent on fighting poverty -- poverty won] and the State stepped in to usurp the place of the Church, black husbands have been driven from their homes and black children have been left fatherless, with black "welfare queens" being the most conspicuous result, who are paid to keep producing children without resident fathers and husbands. This has fractured the black family and the black community and has damaged the black church. This is not how it should be, committing one crime, murdering children, to keep other crimes down. Enough for now. I need to let my blood pressure come back down. BTW, if you want to hear about MLK, Jr. as a pastor, go to http://www.blubrry.com/thepublicsquare60/ and listen to the program for 17 January, the most recent at this point in time. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I would love to continue this exploration into the application of fact based logic, perhaps over the beverage of your choice, to it's conclusion. Since this foundational discussion has been going on as long as man has existed.. it would ensure a long discussion. Another time, another place, . or perhaps, pistols at 20 paces, dawn? LOL Good luck, and all the best Grant... On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Rich Thomas < richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote: > You are treading on very thin ice here. Read up on the woman who started > PP and what her views were, and what group is a significant partaker of > their services, and the effects that has had on that group overall. > > That is all, this issue is not mine, but there are some very interesting > aspects to it, sociologically. > > --R > > > > On 1/19/14 4:56 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > >> Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells >> but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing >> anything is murder. >> >> Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no political >> platform either way and draws interesting conclusions including: >> Abortion drives DOWN crime. >> >> >> I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they >> try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even found in >> places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates rise. Its >> simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to become >> criminals... >> >> -Curt >> >> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:29 -0700 >> From: G Mann >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Womans body = Fails to recognize that at inception of life, when the >> egg/sperm become self regenerating cells, it is no longer "the woman's >> body". It is another human unable to speak for it's self. Logical Critical >> Thinking would understand that. >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
The new term is SSSOP (Same Sex Sexually Oriented Person). Gerry On 1/19/2014 3:11 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: You used the "f" word (no, not THAT "f" word, the other one...). bad GMan, BAD! --R On 1/19/14 3:01 PM, G Mann wrote: Verbal spin to hide the sin. "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will be OK.. more government will protect us. "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining strong support as a public attitude. On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. Example: It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". Then, ten years later: It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
You are treading on very thin ice here. Read up on the woman who started PP and what her views were, and what group is a significant partaker of their services, and the effects that has had on that group overall. That is all, this issue is not mine, but there are some very interesting aspects to it, sociologically. --R On 1/19/14 4:56 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing anything is murder. Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no political platform either way and draws interesting conclusions including: Abortion drives DOWN crime. I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even found in places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates rise. Its simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to become criminals... -Curt Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:29 -0700 From: G Mann To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Womans body = Fails to recognize that at inception of life, when the egg/sperm become self regenerating cells, it is no longer "the woman's body". It is another human unable to speak for it's self. Logical Critical Thinking would understand that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Ahh, I have severe doubts about this one. Sure self regenerating cells but they're completely dependent upon the host. By this logic killing anything is murder. Have you read "Freakonomics"? I recommend it heartily, holds no political platform either way and draws interesting conclusions including: Abortion drives DOWN crime. I find that one fascinating, they do a lot of diligence on these, they try to correct for every possible factor in the data. They've even found in places where abortions are more difficult to get crime rates rise. Its simple, babies born to parents who don't want them tend to become criminals... -Curt Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:56:29 -0700 From: G Mann To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Womans body = Fails to recognize that at inception of life, when the egg/sperm become self regenerating cells, it is no longer "the woman's body". It is another human unable to speak for it's self. Logical Critical Thinking would understand that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I think you're falling victim to the faulty logic you claim to be against. apples, oranges. Maybe it has been warmer in your little corner, but there have been more days below zero and more cold records set this year than ever before. The problem with all this is that temps have only been recorded in most of the US only for 100 years, and in some parts only for 300 or maybe 400 years, but its doubtful there are any meaningful records available for more than 200 years. The whole point is that there is not enough recorded history to determine any special cause variation. The weather has changed warmer and cooler, then warmer, then cooler since the creation. Global warming under any name is pure BS. THat has nothing to do with any politics. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
It's "progressives", not "socialists". and before that they were communists. before that they were communists. A hundred years ago they were "progressives." Before that they were marxists. Before that they were socialists. See any pattern? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
You need to get edumacated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzx7d45XBEE --R On 1/19/14 3:38 PM, G Mann wrote: In Obama-speak I apologize. "It wasn't my fault, I didn't know, I didn't get the memo. It was a Teleprompter misprint. As soon as we form a committee to find who is at fault they will be held accountable, you can count on that" .. "We'll probably find it was George Bush's fault" "Compassion Challenged with Politically Correct" Grant... "Who is not homophobic, but "sodomite resistant" [Trying to learn this liberal spin language, honest. ] On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Rich Thomas < richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote: You used the "f" word (no, not THAT "f" word, the other one...). bad GMan, BAD! --R On 1/19/14 3:01 PM, G Mann wrote: Verbal spin to hide the sin. "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will be OK.. more government will protect us. "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining strong support as a public attitude. On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. Example: It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". Then, ten years later: It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Good points. Both sides are slinging BS so fast you can't catch the light of truth from either one.. Enough all ready.. Both sides fail to apply critical logic thinking. ie These two issues: Gun control = Removal of the basic instinct of self preservation through self protection. Even the most avid "gun control nut" will fight back if attacked, or want to for the rest of their life. It's hard wired basic human. Logical Critical Thinking would understand that. Womans body = Fails to recognize that at inception of life, when the egg/sperm become self regenerating cells, it is no longer "the woman's body". It is another human unable to speak for it's self. Logical Critical Thinking would understand that. Both sides repeat this loss of Logical Critical Thinking at will, to what ever purpose they see will serve them. All lies have a kernel of truth... you can not tell a lie that does not have some element of truth.. the test is.. at the end of the tale.. does truth endure. If it is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it is the truth at the start.. and at the end. And it's usually a short tale. Lies , on the other hand, always fail that simple test... All political parties.. I find guilty of BS spin. Thanks for your attention, with all respect to any who don't agree with me, Grant On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > What about those of use who say "I'm tired of the horse manure from BOTH > SIDES". > > I think both sides are full of it. How can you say "On the one hand you > can't tell me what to do about guns but I have a perfect right to tell a > woman what to do with her body"? > > Sure the other side are idiots too, "Just take away guns, that'll fix > everything." > > Yeah right... > > -Curt > > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:01:28 -0700 > From: G Mann > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Verbal spin to hide the sin. > > "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than > "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" > > We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will > be OK.. more government will protect us. > > "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining > strong support as a public attitude. > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
What about those of use who say "I'm tired of the horse manure from BOTH SIDES". I think both sides are full of it. How can you say "On the one hand you can't tell me what to do about guns but I have a perfect right to tell a woman what to do with her body"? Sure the other side are idiots too, "Just take away guns, that'll fix everything." Yeah right... -Curt Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:01:28 -0700 From: G Mann To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Verbal spin to hide the sin. "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will be OK.. more government will protect us. "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining strong support as a public attitude. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
In Obama-speak I apologize. "It wasn't my fault, I didn't know, I didn't get the memo. It was a Teleprompter misprint. As soon as we form a committee to find who is at fault they will be held accountable, you can count on that" .. "We'll probably find it was George Bush's fault" "Compassion Challenged with Politically Correct" Grant... "Who is not homophobic, but "sodomite resistant" [Trying to learn this liberal spin language, honest. ] On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Rich Thomas < richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote: > You used the "f" word (no, not THAT "f" word, the other one...). bad GMan, > BAD! > > --R > > > On 1/19/14 3:01 PM, G Mann wrote: > >> Verbal spin to hide the sin. >> >> "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than >> "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" >> >> We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It >> will >> be OK.. more government will protect us. >> >> "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining >> strong support as a public attitude. >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: >> >> Andrew Strasfogel wrote: >>> >>> You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their >>> affection. >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". >>> >>> Then, ten years later: >>> It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". >>> >>> Mitch. >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Curt Raymond wrote: I think you're falling victim to the faulty logic you claim to be against. This winter has had its cold times but here in MA last week was in the 50s almost every day and it rained in buckets, same thing 3 weeks before. This has not been a particularly hard winter. We've had cold snaps but I don't consider 1 week to be "prolonged cold". Prolonged cold here. Wreaked havoc with my propane tank level. Looks like Iowa Minnesota and the Dakotas have been getting it worse than me for several weeks. Two years ago there was little snow and ground frost never got below 3". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I think you're falling victim to the faulty logic you claim to be against. This winter has had its cold times but here in MA last week was in the 50s almost every day and it rained in buckets, same thing 3 weeks before. This has not been a particularly hard winter. We've had cold snaps but I don't consider 1 week to be "prolonged cold". Last winter was the warmest in 50 years. The year before that was also quite warm with almost no snow. The right wingers using this winter to claim "global warming is a myth" apparently can't remember back 365 days. I'll grant that theres an awful lot we don't know about the climate but we do know that global mean temperature has risen. Did we cause it? Don't know. Will it keep rising? Don't know. Is this swing long term or short term? Don't know. Is there anything we can do about it? Don't know. Are we getting some terrible storms lately? Yup. Should we prepare for worse? Dammed right. Anybody who says otherwise to that last one is clearly gonna have their house washed out from under them. Then ask for a bailout... -Curt Who can remember farther back than yesterday and look farther ahead than tomorrow. Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:44:48 -0600 From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Niagara peninsula has dozens of awesome wineries with tasting rooms. >Climate change is working in their favor, except perhaps for ice wines... The whole land between the lakes in NY is a wino's paradise. The colder winters have no influence on wine, other than perhaps killing the vines of less cold hardy varieties. The early winter this year probably froze more grapes, meaning eiswein would be more available this year. andrew, I guess you have not noticed the winters growing harder and longer. This winter started very early. Did you notice the ship of fools? A load of global warming true believers, activists, on the way to see how the antarctic eis is supposed to be receding. Their ship was frozen in ice far from the supposed end of the ice, and the resultant "rescue" cost zillions of $$$ and involved many countries. In the end, the ship was left, but the fools were lifted out by taxpayers' heliochopters. In true communist fashion, they successfully passed the bill for their stupidity on to other people. I say we shoulda left em there in the intense heat of their global warming theory. Dr. Deming warned against confusing natural variation with special cause variation. The world, except the japanese, and perhaps the Korean automakers, have ignored Deming for decades. The albore gang is deaf and blind. Our climate goes on as it has since the creation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
You used the "f" word (no, not THAT "f" word, the other one...). bad GMan, BAD! --R On 1/19/14 3:01 PM, G Mann wrote: Verbal spin to hide the sin. "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will be OK.. more government will protect us. "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining strong support as a public attitude. On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. Example: It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". Then, ten years later: It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
It's "progressives", not "socialists". -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:45 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not > "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. Example: It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". Then, ten years later: It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Verbal spin to hide the sin. "Progressive gay gun safety organizer" sounds so less threatening than "Communist faggot seditious anti-constitutional atheist" We all just have to learn "PC Speak" and ignore the real threats... It will be OK.. more government will protect us. "I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take this anymore" however, is gaining strong support as a public attitude. On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > >> You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global >> warming". >> > > As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. > > Example: > > It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". > > Then, ten years later: > It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Andrew Strasfogel wrote: You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". As if it matters when the adherents rename the object of their affection. Example: It's GUN CONTROL, not "ban handguns". Then, ten years later: It's GUN SAFETY, not "gun control". Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
The winter is not abnormally cold. It's just been an abnormally long time since we had one. Siberia got all the cold last year, along with central Europe, same deal the polar vortex dipped down on that side. We used to get a cold blast at least once a winter every four or five years, this time it's been 20 years since the last one, and 30 since one this cold. California is having record heat and drought. Average world temperature is indeed up quite a bit in terms of average, if not a huge amount in absolute temp, but there are far more high temperature records being broken every year than low temperature records, even in cold areas. The ship that got caught in Antarctica was trapped by a blizzard that froze the lighter surface fresh water. Once the wind stopped blowing the surface ice into the shore ice, it opened up and the ship is now on it's way home, unharmed. Don't forget that the climate has not always been what it is in North America -- not all that long ago the tall grass pararie extended into Ohio, what is short grass like Nebraska was deep desert and most of the southwest was more like the deep Sahara with intervals of rain decades apart, not years. Not all that much longer ago, the ice sheets covered most of north America. Peter and before that, the Mississippi valley was tropical and wet. All changed because the dinosaurs drove suburbans. That is exactly what i mean by Deming's warning about not confusing normal variation with special cause variation. There is no special cause affecting climate. It is all a hoax created by lying with statistics and fraudulent data and the grand hope of the self perceived ruling class to tax everything and control everyone. The same morons who brought us oh! Bummercare and characterize wallymert as evil, while the wallymertinsurance is vastly better than obummercare and vastly cheaper. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". Nope the true believers are still claiming global warming. the ones with some small touch to reality realized how stupid global warming made the sound, so they change the religion to "climate change" Fact is, that the climate went along for eons, and no manmade thing is big enough to have any effect. Nature cleanses. In time the global warming religion will be cleansed away too. The future historians will wonder how people cold be so stupid as to believe in this religion of "global warming/climate change/whatever the next 10 renames are. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
The winter is not abnormally cold. It's just been an abnormally long time since we had one. Siberia got all the cold last year, along with central Europe, same deal the polar vortex dipped down on that side. We used to get a cold blast at least once a winter every four or five years, this time it's been 20 years since the last one, and 30 since one this cold. California is having record heat and drought. Average world temperature is indeed up quite a bit in terms of average, if not a huge amount in absolute temp, but there are far more high temperature records being broken every year than low temperature records, even in cold areas. The ship that got caught in Antarctica was trapped by a blizzard that froze the lighter surface fresh water. Once the wind stopped blowing the surface ice into the shore ice, it opened up and the ship is now on it's way home, unharmed. Don't forget that the climate has not always been what it is in North America -- not all that long ago the tall grass pararie extended into Ohio, what is short grass like Nebraska was deep desert and most of the southwest was more like the deep Sahara with intervals of rain decades apart, not years. Not all that much longer ago, the ice sheets covered most of north America. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
You are a bigger idiot that I thought. It's CLIMATE CHANGE, not "global warming". On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > Niagara peninsula has dozens of awesome wineries with tasting rooms. >> Climate change is working in their favor, except perhaps for ice wines... >> > > The whole land between the lakes in NY is a wino's paradise. > > The colder winters have no influence on wine, other than perhaps killing > the vines of less cold hardy varieties. > > The early winter this year probably froze more grapes, meaning eiswein > would be more available this year. > > andrew, > > I guess you have not noticed the winters growing harder and longer. This > winter started very early. Did you notice the ship of fools? A load of > global warming true believers, activists, on the way to see how the > antarctic eis is supposed to be receding. Their ship was frozen in ice far > from the supposed end of the ice, and the resultant "rescue" cost zillions > of $$$ and involved many countries. In the end, the ship was left, but the > fools were lifted out by taxpayers' heliochopters. In true communist > fashion, they successfully passed the bill for their stupidity on to other > people. > > I say we shoulda left em there in the intense heat of their global warming > theory. > > Dr. Deming warned against confusing natural variation with special cause > variation. The world, except the japanese, and perhaps the Korean > automakers, have ignored Deming for decades. The albore gang is deaf and > blind. Our climate goes on as it has since the creation. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Niagara peninsula has dozens of awesome wineries with tasting rooms. Climate change is working in their favor, except perhaps for ice wines... The whole land between the lakes in NY is a wino's paradise. The colder winters have no influence on wine, other than perhaps killing the vines of less cold hardy varieties. The early winter this year probably froze more grapes, meaning eiswein would be more available this year. andrew, I guess you have not noticed the winters growing harder and longer. This winter started very early. Did you notice the ship of fools? A load of global warming true believers, activists, on the way to see how the antarctic eis is supposed to be receding. Their ship was frozen in ice far from the supposed end of the ice, and the resultant "rescue" cost zillions of $$$ and involved many countries. In the end, the ship was left, but the fools were lifted out by taxpayers' heliochopters. In true communist fashion, they successfully passed the bill for their stupidity on to other people. I say we shoulda left em there in the intense heat of their global warming theory. Dr. Deming warned against confusing natural variation with special cause variation. The world, except the japanese, and perhaps the Korean automakers, have ignored Deming for decades. The albore gang is deaf and blind. Our climate goes on as it has since the creation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Niagara peninsula has dozens of awesome wineries with tasting rooms. Climate change is working in their favor, except perhaps for ice wines... On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Dieselhead wrote: > >> I didn't realize you were in Charlotte. Did you know thats the location >>> for this years International Coleman Collectors Convention? >>> http://intlccc.net/ICCC_convention/ICCC_convention.html >>> >> >> >> If you have extra time, and like wineries, Burgdorf winery in Lansing is >> quite interesting. She is a biochemist. They make a lot of small batches >> and also have a DIY operation where they supervise the DIYers and answer >> questions etc. They have a fermentation room for the DIY crowd. >> >> Then up the road north is Uncle John's Cider Mill and Fruit House Winery. >> They have a lot of wines and distilled products, but the specialties are >> cider and perry. Run by the Beck family for a hundred years, but the >> winery is only 10-15 old. Güt schtuff >> > > Heck, if they bring the Jetta, they could do a loop around Da UP and then > swing through Ontario on the way home. If they want to see the industrial > south side of Ontario, going through at Detroit or Port Huron and Buffalo > NY is shorter than going through Ohio. > > Mitch. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
Dieselhead wrote: I didn't realize you were in Charlotte. Did you know thats the location for this years International Coleman Collectors Convention? http://intlccc.net/ICCC_convention/ICCC_convention.html If you have extra time, and like wineries, Burgdorf winery in Lansing is quite interesting. She is a biochemist. They make a lot of small batches and also have a DIY operation where they supervise the DIYers and answer questions etc. They have a fermentation room for the DIY crowd. Then up the road north is Uncle John's Cider Mill and Fruit House Winery. They have a lot of wines and distilled products, but the specialties are cider and perry. Run by the Beck family for a hundred years, but the winery is only 10-15 old. Güt schtuff Heck, if they bring the Jetta, they could do a loop around Da UP and then swing through Ontario on the way home. If they want to see the industrial south side of Ontario, going through at Detroit or Port Huron and Buffalo NY is shorter than going through Ohio. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer
I didn't realize you were in Charlotte. Did you know thats the location for this years International Coleman Collectors Convention? http://intlccc.net/ICCC_convention/ICCC_convention.html If you have extra time, and like wineries, Burgdorf winery in Lansing is quite interesting. She is a biochemist. They make a lot of small batches and also have a DIY operation where they supervise the DIYers and answer questions etc. They have a fermentation room for the DIY crowd. Then up the road north is Uncle John's Cider Mill and Fruit House Winery. They have a lot of wines and distilled products, but the specialties are cider and perry. Run by the Beck family for a hundred years, but the winery is only 10-15 old. Güt schtuff ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
