Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sunday 29 Sep 2002 8:39 pm, Marcia wrote: This sounds like it could be my problem. I just remembered that KDE started to give me some problems with my older machine and there was nothing wrong with my machine. I am going on intuition about this but I really think that is it. Thanks for this info very much. By the way what exactly did you do to get KDE to work correctly. All of your symptoms are just like mine. Thanks again. Hi Marcia Can't remember exactly which KDE styles were causing problems at the time but System++, System-Series, Keramik and Mosfet's Liquid (the latter two were downloaded) come to mind. I was just so relieved to have solved the problem that I stuck to the plain ol' KDE default style for ages afterwards. Also note that that was with both MDK8.1 and Cooker with KDE3.0. One would think those bugs would have been fixed by now. Now using MDK9.0 with a downloaded Keramik and no problems whatsoever. Of course this may not solve your problem at all but worth a try anyway. Sharrea -- The box said Requires Windows 95 or better so I installed Linux Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 29 September 2002 1:45 pm, Sharrea did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: Can't remember exactly which KDE styles were causing problems at the time but System++, System-Series, Keramik and Mosfet's Liquid (the latter two were downloaded) come to mind. keramik has a known memory leak. liquid works great (for me anyway) i can't speak for other styles. - -- No one is free when others are oppressed. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9l2oDBwq+ZwvIN/oRApXbAJ9AfjIpUNv/70gz6LAm0rYGqtqJxACfSC81 MiO/7W3B6gtl7i3nTfk8WPk= =y+lj -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Saturday 28 Sep 2002 11:51 am, Tom Brinkman wrote: Most serious problems are best approached as user hardware OS/ software ... in that order. Users who seem to have the most problems, usually tend to approach in reverse. YM and results MV Yes, of course. I just seemed to have got stuck on the hardware bit - IOW didn't move on to the OS or software bits. -- The box said Requires Windows 95 or better so I installed Linux Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Oops! Sorry Marcia, don't know how the addressing on that happened!?! On Saturday 28 Sep 2002 5:26 am, Marcia wrote: On Wednesday September 25 2002 08:43 am, Marcia wrote: It is really acting up now. Mozilla messenger worked just fine until today and now it is not letting me send emails. It just freezes in the process. I had a nice email to send you and lost it so I am trying again. The link for my board is www.ecsusa.com and my board is snip I haven't been following this thread but just a thought... and perhaps nothing to do with your problem... a while back I had crash problems galore, including _many_ total lockups, seg faults, etc and it turned out to be the KDE style I had chosen. Actually I had the problem with more than one style. I spent weeks going round in circles trying to sort that one and getting very p*ssed off with pressing the reset button (the SysRq key combos absolutely wouldn't work - keyboard died every time). Jeez I even reinstalled twice, stopped using the nvidia drivers and mdk cooker, cleaned the ram contacts and tested the ram, moved the pci cards about, ended up totally confused with the bios settings, but still crash... crash... crash! Then (thankfully) Civileme had mentioned on list something about certain KDE styles being buggy and waddayaknow! all my problems solved! So I learned not to jump to conclusions with regards to what _seems_ like a hardware problem... ; ) Anyway, good luck. Sharrea -- The box said Requires Windows 95 or better so I installed Linux. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Friday September 27 2002 02:38 pm, Sharrea wrote: So I learned not to jump to conclusions with regards to what _seems_ like a hardware problem... ; ) Anyway, good luck. Sharrea Most serious problems are best approached as user hardware OS/ software ... in that order. Users who seem to have the most problems, usually tend to approach in reverse. YM and results MV -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday 25 September 2002 10:47 pm, you wrote: On Wednesday September 25 2002 04:24 pm, et wrote: tell me you are not trying to use both SDram and DDR ram at the same time... please tell me that you are only using one or the other. and Ah Ed, DDR is SDram http://searchStorage.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid5_gci213885,00.html DDR SDRAM (double data rate SDRAM) is synchronous dynamic RAM (SDRAM) that can theoretically improve memory clock speed to at least 200 MHz*. It activates output on both the rising and falling edge of the system clock rather than on just the rising edge, potentially doubling output. The potentially doubling is marketing talk for the aforementioned theoretically improve bit ;) DDR SDram performs about 5 to 7% better than good 'ol rising edge SDram in benchmarks, less in the real world. Specially when average environments (mobo design PSU quality) are taken into account. ohh duh, (slaps self on forhead) I guess I should reread the post before I answer, I can only say that with out my glasses I thought I read 256 megz and not 266 Mhz, and I was thinking a bit much about having read the review about what i thought I had clicked on as her Mobo (which was not hers even ,hers being a L7VMM and me looking at the K7VMM) and the fact it (the K7) can take --Two 184-pin DDR SDRAM (DDR266/DDR200) or --Two 168-pin 3.3V SDRAM (PC133/PC100) but of coarse this ain't even her Mobo ET-decides to go back to lurking, since I ain't got anything right (not even the date) in about a week. that and I am waiting for 9.0 so I can screw up even more. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday September 25 2002 05:55 pm, Marcia wrote:
On Wednesday 25 September 2002 07:25 pm, you wrote:
AMD apprv'd for your 1600+, unfortuntely, I have no experience
with these new mico-boards (an i'm not an ECS fan). The lastest
bios is 1.0a
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/l7vmm.htm 1.
Remove CPU warning temp item in BIOS setup
The ITE8705 chipset use the same high and low limit for CPU
warning temp CPU shutdown temp
2. To fix Hynix 128M X 2 or Samsung 128M X 2 system will
auto-restart when running
either fix could be pertinent to your crash problem, so
update if you don't already have 1.0a. Both are worrisome in that
they deal with auto shutdowns (crashes), one for temp, the other
for ram.
I will update the bios then for starters. I have never done this so
what is the procedure for doing this?
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/winflash_award.htm
has instructions and a link to d/l the win-flash utility. I've
never used Windoze to flash a bios so I can't comment on it. Hopefully
the new bios http://205.158.63.158/bios/l7vmm10a.exe is nothin more
that a winzip self extractor containing a bios.bin file. If it
is/does, then you could get awdflash.exe (use Google) which is a DOS
utility. Add it an the bios.bin file to a DOS boot floppy. If you
don't have a DOS floppy you can get one from http://www.bootdisk.com/
Then you can boot the floppy and type 'awdflash', it's fairly simple.
An even better way IMO is to edit MSDOS.SYS (a hidden txt file)
[Options]
BootMulti=0
BootGUI=0-- This will be =1, change it to =0
Now your W95 will boot to DOS no windoze present. Make a dir
C:\bios (or whatever you want to call it) and put awdflash.exe and the
bios.bin file in it. Then when you boot DOS, cd to \bios and type
'awdflash' IMO, it's quicker (and safer) to flash from HDD rather
than floppy. To start Windoze, just type 'win' at the prompt.
Whether you use ECS's Win-utility, a DOS floppy, or my HDD method,
it is imperative that the computer does not lose power or be rebooted
until the bios flash is complete. Also, at least with the DOS method's
you will be asked if you want to save the old bios, say Yes. If you
know someone that's experienced in flashing bios', you might wanna get
some hands on help. You can end up with an unbootable system if the
flash isn't successful.
--
Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Wednesday September 25 2002 05:55 pm, Marcia wrote: On Wednesday 25 September 2002 07:25 pm, you wrote: AMD apprv'd for your 1600+, unfortuntely, I have no experience with these new mico-boards (an i'm not an ECS fan). The lastest bios is 1.0a http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/l7vmm.htm 1. Remove CPU warning temp item in BIOS setup The ITE8705 chipset use the same high and low limit for CPU warning temp CPU shutdown temp 2. To fix Hynix 128M X 2 or Samsung 128M X 2 system will auto-restart when running either fix could be pertinent to your crash problem, so update if you don't already have 1.0a. Both are worrisome in that they deal with auto shutdowns (crashes), one for temp, the other for ram. I will update the bios then for starters. I have never done this so what is the procedure for doing this? http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/winflash_award.htm has instructions and a link to d/l the win-flash utility. I've never used Windoze to flash a bios so I can't comment on it. Hopefully the new bios http://205.158.63.158/bios/l7vmm10a.exe is nothin more that a winzip self extractor containing a bios.bin file. If it is/does, then you could get awdflash.exe (use Google) which is a DOS utility. Add it an the bios.bin file to a DOS boot floppy. If you don't have a DOS floppy you can get one from http://www.bootdisk.com/ Then you can boot the floppy and type 'awdflash', it's fairly simple. An even better way IMO is to edit MSDOS.SYS (a hidden txt file) [Options] BootMulti=0 BootGUI=0-- This will be =1, change it to =0 Now your W95 will boot to DOS no windoze present. Make a dir C:\bios (or whatever you want to call it) and put awdflash.exe and the bios.bin file in it. Then when you boot DOS, cd to \bios and type 'awdflash' IMO, it's quicker (and safer) to flash from HDD rather than floppy. To start Windoze, just type 'win' at the prompt. Whether you use ECS's Win-utility, a DOS floppy, or my HDD method, it is imperative that the computer does not lose power or be rebooted until the bios flash is complete. Also, at least with the DOS method's you will be asked if you want to save the old bios, say Yes. If you know someone that's experienced in flashing bios', you might wanna get some hands on help. You can end up with an unbootable system if the flash isn't successful. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Dear Tom, Thank you for these instructions. I will check into this. I really do not know if I am brave enough to try this. I have heard that flashing the bios is very risky. I may take my time on this one. At this moment for some reason my machine is working well. Hopefully it will continue. Thanks, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Dear Tom Tom Brinkman wrote: Since the 'nopentium' bandaid didn't fix it, let's start again Marcia. List the hardware involved, particularly mobo, psu, video, and what Mandrake version, which video drivers are used. Ram vendor, if you know? IIRC, it's Mdk 8.2, with an ECS mobo. Got the model/ revision/bios vendor and numbers? The link for my board is http://www.ecsusa.com/ and my motherboard is the L7VMM. I disabled the onboard lan because even though it worked it was grabbing the same irq as sound. The company sent me a new lan card which helped that it seems. This is an Athlon 1600+ XP with 512MB PC2100 DDR, 266 MHZ SDRAM, I had the cooler master added plus an extra case fan. This is a brand new machine. I have Win95 as a dual boot and Win does not have the problems that my Linux side has. Most of the specs are on the link page. A link to their website for the board would be best, and we can try an' figure it all out together. As you only mentioned 'onboard video', which? ...how much system ram does it use? If it's a ready made system, from who ? What was the original installed OS ? Also, while we're at it, what does cat /proc/interrupts cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 246531 XT-PIC timer 1: 3298 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5: 17745 XT-PIC eth0 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 7262 XT-PIC viaudio 11:154 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 12: 87498 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 53126 XT-PIC ide0 15: 4 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 0 ERR: 0 MIS: 0 ...and lspcidrake lspcidrake unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|CPU-to-PCI Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] tulip : ADMtek|ADM983 Linksys EtherFast 10/100 Bad:www.linmodems.org: Lucent Microelectronics|56k WinModem unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|VT8233 PCI to ISA Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT82C586 IDE [Apollo] usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8233 [AC97 Audio Controller] unknown : unknown (5333/8d04//) unknown : Virtual|Hub [] unknown : Virtual|Hub [] scanner : Hewlett-Packard|ScanJet 4300C [] unknown : Hewlett-Packard|DeskJet 940C [Printer|Printer|Bidirectional] ...and lspci lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3116 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) 00:0a.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics 56k WinModem (rev 01) 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3147 00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:11.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. AC97 Audio Controller (rev 40) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc.: Unknown device 8d04 say? FWIW, your problem may not be video related at all, but hardware and/ or configuration in general. So, in the meantime, try takin the case cover off and point a table fan into it directed towards the cpu-hs/fan and the mobo's chipset. Does that reduce or eliminate the problem? It would help a lot if you have lm_sensors/gkrellm installed and report some temps under load. Another good report would be if you can run memtest86 overnite without errors (there's an rpm for it on your CD's). I'll warn you upfront tho, it's a hard, often lengthly process for anybody to diagnose hardware problems 'over the phone' (ie, not hands on). There is a temperature and performance utility in the bios. What are lm_sensors/gkrellm? I would gladly install this if needed. Thanks for your help here. I really appreciate your input. Thanks alot. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Dear Tom, It is really acting up now. Mozilla messenger worked just fine until today and now it is not letting me send emails. It just freezes in the process. I had a nice email to send you and lost it so I am trying again. The link for my board is www.ecsusa.com and my board is the L7VMM. I have 512 MB PC2100 DDR, 266mhz SDRAM, a cooler master and extra fan. It is an Athlon 1600+ XP. The other info you asked for is below. Thanks for your help with this. I really appreciate this. I just bought this machine a couple of months ago. I want to mention also that I have a dual boot with Win95 and that seems to do fine. Do you think the text file I downloaded would help? I do not know what to do with it. Thanks again. Sincerely, Marcia cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 246531 XT-PIC timer 1: 3298 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5: 17745 XT-PIC eth0 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 7262 XT-PIC viaudio 11:154 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 12: 87498 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 53126 XT-PIC ide0 15: 4 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 0 ERR: 0 MIS: 0 $ lspcidrake unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|CPU-to-PCI Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] tulip : ADMtek|ADM983 Linksys EtherFast 10/100 Bad:www.linmodems.org: Lucent Microelectronics|56k WinModem unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|VT8233 PCI to ISA Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT82C586 IDE [Apollo] usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8233 [AC97 Audio Controller] unknown : unknown (5333/8d04//) unknown : Virtual|Hub [] unknown : Virtual|Hub [] scanner : Hewlett-Packard|ScanJet 4300C [] unknown : Hewlett-Packard|DeskJet 940C [Printer|Printer|Bidirectional] $ lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3116 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) 00:0a.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics 56k WinModem (rev 01) 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3147 00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:11.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. AC97 Audio Controller (rev 40) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc.: Unknown device 8d04 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Thanks for your help with this. I really appreciate this. I just bought this machine a couple of months ago. I want to mention also that I have a dual boot with Win95 and that seems to do fine. Do you think the text file I downloaded would help? I do not know what to do with it. Thanks again. I am coming in extremely late to this thread, so if I'm repeating anything, I apologize. 1.) Remove all non-necessary components (modem, sound card, network card, etc.) 2.) Restart system and do normal things...If crashes persist, remove all ram but one stick and/or swap in spare ram (if you have it) 3.) Continue slimming down the possible variables until you check all of your hardware. If it comes to it, replace your motherboard and/or power supply and test again. Of course, if you're not comfortable with this, you might be stuck. Fiddling with settings is all well and good, but it usually masks hardware problems. Only when the hardware is excluded as the problem, can the software be tinkered with. Just my .02, Brendan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday 25 September 2002 09:25 am, you wrote: Dear Tom Tom Brinkman wrote: Since the 'nopentium' bandaid didn't fix it, let's start again Marcia. List the hardware involved, particularly mobo, psu, video, and what Mandrake version, which video drivers are used. Ram vendor, if you know? IIRC, it's Mdk 8.2, with an ECS mobo. Got the model/ revision/bios vendor and numbers? The link for my board is http://www.ecsusa.com/ and my motherboard is the L7VMM. I disabled the onboard lan because even though it worked it was grabbing the same irq as sound. The company sent me a new lan card which helped that it seems. This is an Athlon 1600+ XP with 512MB PC2100 DDR, 266 MHZ SDRAM, I had the cooler master added plus an extra case fan. This is a brand new machine. I have Win95 as a dual boot and Win does not have the problems that my Linux side has. Most of the specs are on the link page. tell me you are not trying to use both SDram and DDR ram at the same time... please tell me that you are only using one or the other. and if you are have you tried memtest86? how much ram does windows see? (win 95 can not see more than 512 megs, and would not boot (if my memory serves me) with more than 512.) A link to their website for the board would be best, and we can try an' figure it all out together. As you only mentioned 'onboard video', which? ...how much system ram does it use? If it's a ready made system, from who ? What was the original installed OS ? Also, while we're at it, what does cat /proc/interrupts cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 246531 XT-PIC timer 1: 3298 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5: 17745 XT-PIC eth0 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 7262 XT-PIC viaudio 11:154 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 12: 87498 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 53126 XT-PIC ide0 15: 4 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 0 ERR: 0 MIS: 0 ...and lspcidrake lspcidrake unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|CPU-to-PCI Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] tulip : ADMtek|ADM983 Linksys EtherFast 10/100 Bad:www.linmodems.org: Lucent Microelectronics|56k WinModem unknown : VIA Technologies Inc|VT8233 PCI to ISA Bridge unknown : VIA Technologies|VT82C586 IDE [Apollo] usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB usb-uhci: VIA Technologies|VT82C586B USB unknown : VIA Technologies|VT8233 [AC97 Audio Controller] unknown : unknown (5333/8d04//) unknown : Virtual|Hub [] unknown : Virtual|Hub [] scanner : Hewlett-Packard|ScanJet 4300C [] unknown : Hewlett-Packard|DeskJet 940C [Printer|Printer|Bidirectional] ...and lspci lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3116 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8633 [Apollo Pro266 AGP] 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) 00:0a.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics 56k WinModem (rev 01) 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 3147 00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:11.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UHCI USB (rev 23) 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. AC97 Audio Controller (rev 40) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc.: Unknown device 8d04 say? FWIW, your problem may not be video related at all, but hardware and/ or configuration in general. So, in the meantime, try takin the case cover off and point a table fan into it directed towards the cpu-hs/fan and the mobo's chipset. Does that reduce or eliminate the problem? It would help a lot if you have lm_sensors/gkrellm installed and report some temps under load. Another good report would be if you can run memtest86 overnite without errors (there's an rpm for it on your CD's). I'll warn you upfront tho, it's a hard, often lengthly process for anybody to diagnose hardware problems 'over the phone' (ie, not hands on). There is a temperature and performance utility in the bios. What are lm_sensors/gkrellm? I would gladly install this if needed. Thanks for your help here. I really appreciate your input. Thanks alot. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday September 25 2002 08:25 am, Marcia wrote: Dear Tom Tom Brinkman wrote: Since the 'nopentium' bandaid didn't fix it, let's start again Marcia. List the hardware involved, particularly mobo, psu, video, and what Mandrake version, which video drivers are used. Ram vendor, if you know? IIRC, it's Mdk 8.2, with an ECS mobo. Got the model/ revision/bios vendor and numbers? The link for my board is http://www.ecsusa.com/ and my motherboard is the L7VMM. AMD apprv'd for your 1600+, unfortuntely, I have no experience with these new mico-boards (an i'm not an ECS fan). The lastest bios is 1.0a http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/l7vmm.htm 1. Remove CPU warning temp item in BIOS setup The ITE8705 chipset use the same high and low limit for CPU warning temp CPU shutdown temp 2. To fix Hynix 128M X 2 or Samsung 128M X 2 system will auto-restart when running either fix could be pertinent to your crash problem, so update if you don't already have 1.0a. Both are worrisome in that they deal with auto shutdowns (crashes), one for temp, the other for ram. I disabled the onboard lan because even though it worked it was grabbing the same irq as sound. The company sent me a new lan card which helped that it seems. This is an Athlon 1600+ XP with 512MB PC2100 DDR, 266 MHZ SDRAM, Yes, but who makes the ram. Two important points, the actual ram chips and the pcb (board) implemetation of the chips. IOW's Micron chips (good) on a generic pcb (bad) ... well two wrongs don't make a right ; Look in bios and see what the ram timings are. The most lenient are CAS 3-3-3, and if there's a setting for 'bank interleaving', disable it. At least till we tryin get your crash problem solved, go for lenient. 2-2-2 and 4-bank are the optimum, but only good ram on a good mobo with a good PSU can do it. Also it's 133 Mhz x2 ram. (the x2, and DDR are mostly maketing talk) Probly now's a good time to run the machine overnite booting to memtest86. Look on your CD's, or use SoftwareManager, you should find somethin like memtest86-3.0-2mdk . Install that rpm, it'll add a memtest86 boot option to lilo (or grub). When you re-boot, choose this option and let the tests run overnite. Plan B, if your machine doesn't like booting this option, then look in /boot. After installin the memtest rpm you'll see a file like memtest-3.0.bin. So put in a good floppy and type 'dd if=/boot/memtest-3.0.bin of=/dev/fd0' (caution your memtest version is probly differnet than mine). That'll make an memtest86 floppy you can boot from. Just choose 'floppy' from lilo. If you can't run memtest86 overnite with -0- errors, then we probly have found the problem ... the ram, or how well your motherboards gets along with it, or both. Could still be PSU tho. I had the cooler master added plus an extra case fan. This is a brand new machine. I have Win95 as a dual boot and Win does not have the problems that my Linux side has. Win9.x -- WinXP tolerates sloppy (win)hardware, actually encourages it IMO. Most all CoolerMaster hs/fans are AMD appr'vd, so we probly don't need to look there. I'd advise you tho, that it's probly usin a thermal pad to contact the cpu's die, and this will deteriorate over time, might even fail. Thermal grease is much better, now and later. cat /proc/interrupts | 11:154 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci What USB devices do you have? Appears two are sharing IRQ11 or it's possibly a double entry. Everything else looked good. There is a temperature and performance utility in the bios. What are lm_sensors/gkrellm? I would gladly install this if needed. Most common causes of random, occaisional lockups and reboots are faulty ram, or overheating. Even a lot of Windoze problems get blamed on M$, when these two culprits are really at fault (specially Winsux Registry errors). The temp you see in bios is really only good for verifying that you have hardware support for temp, voltage, fan monitoring. When you see this temp the system is not under load, and usually is comin from a cool state. Specially if it's been off for more'n just a few seconds. Processor core temp is _very_ dynamic. Also there's only a very few current mobo's that can really access AthlonXP internal diode core temps (Asus, Gigabyte). All other boards, including yours an' mine, measure the temp from an external probe. 'Bout like tryin to see if the electric wires inside a wall are too hot, by holding your hand against the sheetrock. Still it's somethin to go by. Figure your cpu core temp is 10 to 20C hotter than the probe reports tho. So we need lm_sensors. It's on your CD's, install liblm_sensors1-2.6.4-4mdk lm_sensors-2.6.4-4mdk ...or just type 'lm-sensors' into SoftwareManager. We won't fool with gkrellm just yet. After the rpms are installed, su to root and run 'sensors-detect'. All the default answers to
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday 25 September 2002 07:25 pm, you wrote: On Wednesday September 25 2002 08:25 am, Marcia wrote: Dear Tom Tom Brinkman wrote: Since the 'nopentium' bandaid didn't fix it, let's start again Marcia. List the hardware involved, particularly mobo, psu, video, and what Mandrake version, which video drivers are used. Ram vendor, if you know? IIRC, it's Mdk 8.2, with an ECS mobo. Got the model/ revision/bios vendor and numbers? The link for my board is http://www.ecsusa.com/ and my motherboard is the L7VMM. AMD apprv'd for your 1600+, unfortuntely, I have no experience with these new mico-boards (an i'm not an ECS fan). The lastest bios is 1.0a http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/l7vmm.htm 1. Remove CPU warning temp item in BIOS setup The ITE8705 chipset use the same high and low limit for CPU warning temp CPU shutdown temp 2. To fix Hynix 128M X 2 or Samsung 128M X 2 system will auto-restart when running either fix could be pertinent to your crash problem, so update if you don't already have 1.0a. Both are worrisome in that they deal with auto shutdowns (crashes), one for temp, the other for ram. I will update the bios then for starters. I have never done this so what is the procedure for doing this? I disabled the onboard lan because even though it worked it was grabbing the same irq as sound. The company sent me a new lan card which helped that it seems. This is an Athlon 1600+ XP with 512MB PC2100 DDR, 266 MHZ SDRAM, Yes, but who makes the ram. Two important points, the actual ram chips and the pcb (board) implemetation of the chips. IOW's Micron chips (good) on a generic pcb (bad) ... well two wrongs don't make a right ; Look in bios and see what the ram timings are. The most lenient are CAS 3-3-3, and if there's a setting for 'bank interleaving', disable it. At least till we tryin get your crash problem solved, go for lenient. 2-2-2 and 4-bank are the optimum, but only good ram on a good mobo with a good PSU can do it. Also it's 133 Mhz x2 ram. (the x2, and DDR are mostly maketing talk) Probly now's a good time to run the machine overnite booting to memtest86. Look on your CD's, or use SoftwareManager, you should find somethin like memtest86-3.0-2mdk . Install that rpm, it'll add a memtest86 boot option to lilo (or grub). When you re-boot, choose this option and let the tests run overnite. Plan B, if your machine doesn't like booting this option, then look in /boot. After installin the memtest rpm you'll see a file like memtest-3.0.bin. So put in a good floppy and type 'dd if=/boot/memtest-3.0.bin of=/dev/fd0' (caution your memtest version is probly differnet than mine). That'll make an memtest86 floppy you can boot from. Just choose 'floppy' from lilo. If you can't run memtest86 overnite with -0- errors, then we probly have found the problem ... the ram, or how well your motherboards gets along with it, or both. Could still be PSU tho. I had the cooler master added plus an extra case fan. This is a brand new machine. I have Win95 as a dual boot and Win does not have the problems that my Linux side has. Win9.x -- WinXP tolerates sloppy (win)hardware, actually encourages it IMO. Most all CoolerMaster hs/fans are AMD appr'vd, so we probly don't need to look there. I'd advise you tho, that it's probly usin a thermal pad to contact the cpu's die, and this will deteriorate over time, might even fail. Thermal grease is much better, now and later. cat /proc/interrupts 11:154 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci What USB devices do you have? Appears two are sharing IRQ11 or it's possibly a double entry. Everything else looked good. I have a usb HP 4300 scanjet scanner and a HP 940c usb printer. There is a temperature and performance utility in the bios. What are lm_sensors/gkrellm? I would gladly install this if needed. Most common causes of random, occaisional lockups and reboots are faulty ram, or overheating. Even a lot of Windoze problems get blamed on M$, when these two culprits are really at fault (specially Winsux Registry errors). The temp you see in bios is really only good for verifying that you have hardware support for temp, voltage, fan monitoring. When you see this temp the system is not under load, and usually is comin from a cool state. Specially if it's been off for more'n just a few seconds. Processor core temp is _very_ dynamic. Also there's only a very few current mobo's that can really access AthlonXP internal diode core temps (Asus, Gigabyte). All other boards, including yours an' mine, measure the temp from an external probe. 'Bout like tryin to see if the electric wires inside a wall are too hot, by holding your hand against the sheetrock. Still it's somethin to go by. Figure your cpu core temp is 10 to 20C hotter than the probe reports tho. So we need lm_sensors. It's on your
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Wednesday 25 September 2002 06:55 pm, Marcia wrote: I will update the bios then for starters. I have never done this so what is Be careful. This is something messed up by even advanced users. What we typically do for this at work is to write a DOS floppy and then write an autoexec.bat with the `flash BIOSname` command in there, replace flash with the exe file given to you, and the BIOSname replaced by the ROM or BIN file they give you... I'm sure google can do better at an explanation than I can... At work, we actually have to have a machine dedicated to this (the only one with Windows installed)... B Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sunday September 22 2002 01:48 am, Roland Hughes wrote: The reason for the mem=nopentium in the lilo is that when the kernal was developed there are memory commands/coding that refer to pentium only commands. If you are running a Athlon/duron which do not have these commands they cause flaky/erratic behaviour. Roly That's the common misconception, pretty much the first rumor based on nVidia's first reaction to the 'bug'. But it's not the case, it was a kernel bug and video driver issue. The kernel was fixed months ago. I believe XFree86 was also. http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. Pay particular attention to this sentence, AMD's educated guess is that these Athlon/AGP stability problems have to do with speculative writes by the CPU and how they can cause indavertent trashing of AGP memory if pages are mapped with indiscretion by the OS and drivers. ^^ All mem=nopentium does is to limit pages to 4k, nothing to do with pentium only commands. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,00.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Dear All, I have been following this thread since the mem=nopentium did not completely solve my problem afterall. I went to the ftp site with the fix and downloaded it. Actually I could not download it from the main site and had to search for a mirror for it. Anyway it downloaded a textfile. I am just a newbie with no programming skills, so I have no idea what to do with it. I would love to fix this instability problem as soon as possible. Could anyone help me with this? Thanks for all of the help. It is too bad that there is such a problem between Linux and amd. Will this be resolved with mandrake 9? Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Tuesday September 24 2002 09:57 am, Marcia wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: snip spare y'all from repeats ;) Dear All, I have been following this thread since the mem=nopentium did not completely solve my problem afterall. I went to the ftp site with the fix and downloaded it. Actually I could not download it from the main site and had to search for a mirror for it. What 'fix'? Marcia Since the 'nopentium' bandaid didn't fix it, let's start again Marcia. List the hardware involved, particularly mobo, psu, video, and what Mandrake version, which video drivers are used. Ram vendor, if you know? IIRC, it's Mdk 8.2, with an ECS mobo. Got the model/ revision/bios vendor and numbers? A link to their website for the board would be best, and we can try an' figure it all out together. As you only mentioned 'onboard video', which? ...how much system ram does it use? If it's a ready made system, from who ? What was the original installed OS ? Also, while we're at it, what does cat /proc/interrupts ...and lspcidrake ...and lspci say? FWIW, your problem may not be video related at all, but hardware and/ or configuration in general. So, in the meantime, try takin the case cover off and point a table fan into it directed towards the cpu-hs/fan and the mobo's chipset. Does that reduce or eliminate the problem? It would help a lot if you have lm_sensors/gkrellm installed and report some temps under load. Another good report would be if you can run memtest86 overnite without errors (there's an rpm for it on your CD's). I'll warn you upfront tho, it's a hard, often lengthly process for anybody to diagnose hardware problems 'over the phone' (ie, not hands on). -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Tuesday September 24 2002 10:53 am, Marcia wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: Dear Tom Charles, I just sent a post that should show up mentioning that I downloaded the patch. It is a text file and I do not know what to do with it being the newbie that I am. I already replied to that post, you'll probly see it before this Anyway, I am wondering if I just would download and install the Xfree 4.2.1 if that would resolve the problem? Highly doubtful Any thoughts about this? My video is the onboard video which is I believe the integrated Savage 8 2D/D3 video Accelerator, 32MB shared memory. Is there a specific driver for this that would improve things or would the latest XFree resolve it? Thanks for any suggestions. Should be covered from XFree-3.3.x on up, it's nothin new, sort'a old. BUT, since it's onboard and sharing system ram, there should be an append in lilo (or grub) to let the kernel know. IE, since you have 512 MB's of installed ram, then there should be an append statement (or part of it) in lilo sayin no more than mem=480M (eg, 512 -32). I doubt this is your 'Constant computer crashes' problem tho. See my other reply, I suspect it's not a video problem anyhow. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
My mistake, but it still made my system more stable. Roly On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:01:16 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 01:48 am, Roland Hughes wrote: The reason for the mem=nopentium in the lilo is that when the kernal was developed there are memory commands/coding that refer to pentium only commands. If you are running a Athlon/duron which do not have these commands they cause flaky/erratic behaviour. Roly That's the common misconception, pretty much the first rumor based on nVidia's first reaction to the 'bug'. But it's not the case, it was a kernel bug and video driver issue. The kernel was fixed months ago. I believe XFree86 was also. http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. Pay particular attention to this sentence, AMD's educated guess is that these Athlon/AGP stability problems have to do with speculative writes by the CPU and how they can cause indavertent trashing of AGP memory if pages are mapped with indiscretion by the OS and drivers. ^^ All mem=nopentium does is to limit pages to 4k, nothing to do with pentium only commands. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas -- The directions said to install Windows 98/2000 or better! So I installed Linux! Linux Counter: 241069 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Monday September 23 2002 11:30 am, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:55:48 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting, but it directly contradicts the statement made by 'Sean Cleveland and Wayne Meritsky of AMD' (the kernel ML link I gave). I can see why AMD could release a patch for W2k, even tho the bug isn't in their cpu's. Also, I believe the Linux 2.4 kernel has been patched too, for quite some time now. IIRC, shortly after Mdk 8.0 was released. Doing a little more digging today I was able to find a more detailed explanation. Unfortunately it gives credence to your view rather than to mine. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernelm=102376926732464w=2 It is from June of his year and very interesting. At any rate for whatever reason the nopentium append does work for X stability on my systems. BTW all my hardware is from the AMD approved lists and the power supplies are all in excess specs. Charles Try without nopentium, but set the aperature to 4 in bios? Still lock-up? IE, (from your link), The kernel bug is often exposed in conjunction with use of the AGP Aperture on these platforms. Which is why I suggested a 4mb aperature in my earlier post. Then try again with the open source drivers. BTW, the AGP Aperature set to 4 is an old overclockers trick when the PCI bus is way out'a spec due to raisin the FSB too high. Degrades video performance somewhat, but I wonder if 'nopentium' doesn't also (?). I've seen you mention you have a Soyo Dragon +, an AMD apprv'd board. What aggravates the AGP issue, any OS, is PSU's. Specially with high performance AGP video cards from nVidia or ATI. Watt's, advertised specs aren't the important PSU specs. Manufacturer is, particularly model no., as they're marketed under several brand names (eg, I've got a Powerman 300w PSU in an Inwin case, but the model no. reveals it's made by Sparkle, and is an AMD appr'vd PSU model). IOW's, all 300+ watt PSU's vary in 'cleaness', stability of power. AMD takes the effort to figure out suitable ones, Intel does also. I'm curious tho why a kernel bandaid (nopentium) would fix a problem that was reported as fixed in recent kernels (for the last year), or stems from marginal hardware, and/or wattage hoggin AGP cards. I still suspect the video drivers are involved, specially the popular closed source proprietary ones. IOW's I still believe the AGP problem might be user (choices, ie, driver) and hardware centric. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
I had this same problem on two machines running dual Athlon MP's. Earlier versions of Mandrake and other distros would lock up a lot. Some distros and versions would not even install. One thing that I tried was swapping the processors so that the voltage leveled out. I had read somewhere that there is a problem sometimes when running dual MP's where the voltage will be different to each processor. This helped a bunch on one system. Secondly, installing Mandrake 9.0 and using the default graphics drivers have caused no lockups. I have tried Nvidia's drivers and have had problems but maybe I was just setting that up wrong. But MDK 9 RC2 default everything (kernel, drivers, etc) has worked great for me. -Gary On Monday 23 September 2002 06:55 am, Tom Brinkman scribbled something about: On Sunday September 22 2002 01:09 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:37:15 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. This is the same AGP 'bug' for which AMD issued a Win2k patch and this 'bug' exists in the Linux 2.4 kernel series unless the kernel has been built for Athlon optimization. I may be be mistaken but do you not build your kernel, Tom? Yes, currently 2.4.19-16k7. I only edit Mdk's default .config file and comment out i585 and enable k7, compile as usual. I had no idea this was a work-around for the AGP issue tho. Thanks for the info ;) At any rate there are numerous threads on the kernel mailing list regarding this issue when AGP is used and the always recommended solution is to use mem=nopentium. In support of my position see: http://www.kickassgear.com/athlon-linux%20bug.htm Interesting, but it directly contradicts the statement made by 'Sean Cleveland and Wayne Meritsky of AMD' (the kernel ML link I gave). I can see why AMD could release a patch for W2k, even tho the bug isn't in their cpu's. Also, I believe the Linux 2.4 kernel has been patched too, for quite some time now. IIRC, shortly after Mdk 8.0 was released. If others are desired just do a google-linux search for mem=nopentium. That's where I got the kernel ML link ;) BTW, your link is just a hardware (overclockers) webpage, and is just the authors opinion. ie, Here are the details., but then doesn't say where he got 'em. I currently use mem=nopentium on my systems and can confirm that without this option random X lock-ups will occur if using the Nvidia driver, and on systems with the ATI Rage128 using either the ati or r128 driver if DRI is used. Even should men=nopentium be only a placebo I'll still take my medicine. Charles Well, besides compiling for Athlon, I don't use nVidia's closed source drivers either. One or both are probly why I don't need the nopentium parameter, and don't experience lockups. Hardware problems, eg, mobo/PSU, ram, overheating are the most often causes of random lock-ups, spontaneous reboots. Those areas should get a real hard close look before tryin bandaids IMO. 'Course, as I infer from your experience, if lock-ups stopped, then the nopentium option is probly needed, either for your hardware or to rectify a bug in the video drivers you're usin. ...and as you seem to say, probly doesn't hurt. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:58:17 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've seen you mention you have a Soyo Dragon +, an AMD apprv'd board. What aggravates the AGP issue, any OS, is PSU's. Specially with high performance AGP video cards from nVidia or ATI. Watt's, advertised specs aren't the important PSU specs. Manufacturer is, particularly model no., as they're marketed under several brand names It's a 435w Enermax Dual fan, a higher watted model than that listed as necessary by AMD for the XP1900+. I always research and an use care in the hardware I purchase even if it is for a cheap system. I even still believe that the 'best' 3d card that can be had for the money, especially for linux use, is the ATI Xpert2000 32MB (not the pro version). I 'choose the GeForce3 for my high end system and I 'choose' to use the nvidia drivers. That is part of what linux is about--the ability to have choice. Currently I am quite happy with the performance I get from all my systems, except for my gateway where I have to run Win98 but that is another story. Charles --- The sudden sight of me causes panic in the streets. They have yet to learn -- only the savage fears what he does not understand. -- The Silver Surfer -- Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Monday September 23 2002 02:46 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: I 'choose the GeForce3 for my high end system and I 'choose' to use the nvidia drivers. That is part of what linux is about--the ability to have choice. Charles Correct, Linux is about choices, altho the nVidia driver is about closed source proprietary who knows what? ... no choice, plus the unauditable introduction of other possible conflicts and/or security issues. Minus choice. We can keep battin this back an forth as far as the ballyhooed AMD (non-existent IMO 'bug'), but it seems to have come down to ... we both use AMD approved hardware,... we're both usin the same OS and kernel (even version, current cooker 9.0), ... I believe you've come to recognize now it's not a AMD processor bug only difference that's left is the user choice of video driver. Your choice of the nvidia closed source driver appears to need the kernel nopentium bandaid to work, my choice to use the open source XFree driver isn't crippled in this respect. So, as I've been sayin, driver choice seems to be the standout problem that's left, probly further aggravated for those users who failed to choose apprv'd quality hardware to begin with. YMMV -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
The reason for the mem=nopentium in the lilo is that when the kernal was developed there are memory commands/coding that refer to pentium only commands. If you are running a Athlon/duron which do not have these commands they cause flaky/erratic behaviour. Roly On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:37:15 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,00.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas -- The directions said to install Windows 98/2000 or better! So I installed Linux! Linux Counter: 241069 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? TIA Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,00.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,00.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com This is all very interesting to me. By the way how and where exactly would I append Lilo with the 'lilo append mem=nopentium'? I would very much like to try this option since I continue to have to reboot to get most things working. Would it be worth it for me to get XFree86-4.2.1? I know I am not having overheating problems. I have extra cooling. I have Windows 95 as a dual boot and it seems to do fine. I am a newbie still and I need exact instructions. Thank you very much for your ideas and input. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:37:15 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. This is the same AGP 'bug' for which AMD issued a Win2k patch and this 'bug' exists in the Linux 2.4 kernel series unless the kernel has been built for Athlon optimization. I may be be mistaken but do you not build your kernel, Tom? At any rate there are numerous threads on the kernel mailing list regarding this issue when AGP is used and the always recommended solution is to use mem=nopentium. In support of my position see: http://www.kickassgear.com/athlon-linux%20bug.htm If others are desired just do a google-linux search for mem=nopentium. I currently use mem=nopentium on my systems and can confirm that without this option random X lock-ups will occur if using the Nvidia driver, and on systems with the ATI Rage128 using either the ati or r128 driver if DRI is used. Even should men=nopentium be only a placebo I'll still take my medicine. Charles --- We don't smoke and we don't chew, and we don't go with girls that do. -- Walter Summers -- Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 07:24:46 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is all very interesting to me. By the way how and where exactly would I append Lilo with the 'lilo append mem=nopentium'? I would very much like to try this option since I continue to have to reboot to get most things working. Here is a copy of 1 of my kernel entries in lilo from /etc/lilo.conf image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.19-16mdk label=2419-16 root=/dev/hda5 read-only optional vga=788 append= devfs=mount hdg=ide-scsi hdh=ide-scsi mem=nopentium initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.19-16mdk.img After making and saving the change/changes be sure to run lilo. [root@localhost charles]# lilo Charles --- The sooner our happiness together begins, the longer it will last. -- Miramanee, The Paradise Syndrome, stardate 4842.6 -- Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Sunday 22 Sep 2002 3:37 pm, you wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,0 0.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. Thank you - most helpful. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Marcia wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sunday September 22 2002 05:16 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 19 Sep 2002 8:56 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium Charles, could you tell me more about this? Is this something that all of us using Athlons/Durons should be using? Obviously this is there to avoid specific problems, what are they? Altho all chipsets and processors have bugs (errata), any manufacturer, AMD, Intel, Cyrix, SiS, VIA, etc., the best way to avoid Athlon or Duron problems is to _only_ use motherboards and power supplies that are recommended by AMD http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348,00.html That link is for XP's, but there's similar links for Tbirds and Durons. I suspect Marcia's problem probly starts with the PSU and/or motherboard. Ram quality is another likely culprit. Ram performance and reliability is greatly affected by the quality of the mobo and PSU tho. So even very good ram mght have problems on a marginal mobo/PSU. 'Course overheating is always a suspect. FWIW, I've had a 1.4 Tbird oc'd to 1.55 with an AMD approved mobo and PSU for over a year an a half. Never used the nopentium option, never had any problems. GeF2 w/64mb's usin the open source XFree86 driver. The nopentium parameter is to limit the page size requests from system ram for the AGP card. If the video card has 16mb ram or more onboard, the system ram probly will never, or rarely be used anyhow. If system ram is being used by the Vcard, and causing problems, one quick and dirty way fix is to set the AGP aperature in bios to 4mb. Drawback is that it effectively disables AGP sidebanding and will somewhat decrease 3d/accel performance. For more on the AMD/AGP issue see, http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ Note: There *is* an Athlon/AGP issue. This issue has *not* been tied to a bug with the Athlon/Duron processors. ...and... Our conclusion is that the operating system is creating coherency problems within the system by creating cacheable translation to AGP GART-mapped physical memory. IMO, another suspect is closed source proprietary drivers. As I said, even on a highly oc'd, hot system, I've not had any problems without nopentium usin the openXFree86-4.2.1 source driver which BTW, now provides some 3d/accel support for nvidia cards. XFree86-4.2.1 included with Mdk 9.0. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com This is all very interesting to me. By the way how and where exactly would I append Lilo with the 'lilo append mem=nopentium'? I would very much like to try this option since I continue to have to reboot to get most things working. Would it be worth it for me to get XFree86-4.2.1? I know I am not having overheating problems. I have extra cooling. I have Windows 95 as a dual boot and it seems to do fine. I am a newbie still and I need exact instructions. Thank you very much for your ideas and input. Sincerely, Marcia /etc/lilo.conf, note the append= line, just add the mem=nopentium to it as follows, image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.18-6mdk label=82-2.4.18-6 root=/dev/hda7 initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.18-6mdk.img append=devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi hdc=ide-scsi nobiospnp mem=nopentium vga=791 read-only don't worry about the extras Ihave, John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Carl J. Bauman wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: /etc/lilo.conf, note the append= line, just add the mem=nopentium to it as follows, image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.18-6mdk label=82-2.4.18-6 root=/dev/hda7 initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.18-6mdk.img append=devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi hdc=ide-scsi nobiospnp mem=nopentium vga=791 read-only don't worry about the extras Ihave, John I noticed that http://www.mandrakeuser.org/docs/hardware/hbits6.html#athlon contained the following caveat: Notice that if you are using SCSI emulation, e.g. for an IDE CD burner, the 'ide-scsi' option must come after the 'mem=nopentium' option (that is you have to insert that option before 'ide-scsi'). Otherwise the emulation might stop working correctly. I don't know if this is still true or not. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Carl Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Thanks alot for this. I do have the scsi , so I will go and change this. It seems the mem=nopentium may have made a positive difference for my system even though it comes after the scsi entry. I am still checking on things and will let you know. Thanks alot again. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
Carl J. Bauman wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: /etc/lilo.conf, note the append= line, just add the mem=nopentium to it as follows, image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.18-6mdk label=82-2.4.18-6 root=/dev/hda7 initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.18-6mdk.img append=devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi hdc=ide-scsi nobiospnp mem=nopentium vga=791 read-only don't worry about the extras Ihave, John I noticed that http://www.mandrakeuser.org/docs/hardware/hbits6.html#athlon contained the following caveat: Notice that if you are using SCSI emulation, e.g. for an IDE CD burner, the 'ide-scsi' option must come after the 'mem=nopentium' option (that is you have to insert that option before 'ide-scsi'). Otherwise the emulation might stop working correctly. I don't know if this is still true or not. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Carl Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Thank you Carl and all who helped me with this change to lilo. It may be too early to tell but it looks like this fix in lilo may have turned my horribly unstable system into a very stable system now. Everything so far that I tried to use is working and does not crash. My panel does not disappear on me anymore either. I hope others with similar systems learn of this fix. Thanks so much for your input. I had been struggling with this since July. Thanks very much again. Gratefully, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500 Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. lilo append mem=nopentium If that does not do the trick check your temp and your power connections both of those can produce similar symptoms. Charles --- Fortune's real live weird band names #436: Manson-Nixon Line -- Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Thursday 19 September 2002 16:46, you wrote: I had a similar problem I few days ago, and it appeared to be a defective harddisk. After replacing it to problem dissapeared. Maybe something went wrong when you partitionned the hard disk. Dear All, Since I have placed LM8.2 on my new Athlon 1600+ xp, elitegroup motherboard with via chipset, onboard sound and video and 512 megs of ram, my system just flakes out on me constantly. My web browsers will crash after using them for awhile and or files will not open or the menu bar will just disappear for no apparent reason. I then reboot and sometimes that gets everything working for awhile and sometimes not. I did have an irq conflict for awhile which I thought was resolved now. What could be happening and what can be done about it? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Constant computer crashes
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:46:37 -0500, Marcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Since I have placed LM8.2 on my new Athlon 1600+ xp, elitegroup motherboard with via chipset, onboard sound and video and 512 megs of ram, my system just flakes out on me constantly. My web browsers will crash after using them for awhile and or files will not open or the menu bar will just disappear for no apparent reason. I then reboot and sometimes that gets everything working for awhile and sometimes not. I did have an irq conflict for awhile which I thought was resolved now. What could be happening and what can be done about it? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marcia Although your equipment is much newer than mine, try a different set of disks, professionally burned if possible. It might make a difference. I had similar problems trying to upgrade/install Mdk8.2 and Rh7.3 from CDs burnt at the local LUG, although Mdk8.1 from Cheapbytes installs and runs great. Based on comments on this list and others, it seems that disks burnt at high speed do not always read well on older equipment. The Mdk8.2 would install with no complaints but would perform as you mention: mine would hand in Konqueror and lock up. The Rh CDs would not get past the 2nd stage install. Although, both sets were used to install other, newer computers with no problems. Waiting on opportunity for new disks, though actually not lacking anything except newer versions of things. Everything works fine with Mdk8.1. regards, Richard. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
