PESO - Camera Club

[Marco Alpert]

Hi all - I think it's been over a year since I posted here, mainly  
because I haven't been shooting much lately. (But I have been  
sticking my head in now and then to keep up.)


Some months ago, I discovered a long-stored box of negatives that  
dated from the late '60s/early '70s.  I no longer have a decent film  
scanner, but since they are largely personal memorabilia, I've been  
scanning some of them on my wife's $99 Epson scanner at modest web  
resolution. Mostly, they are of no interest to anyone who doesn't  
happen to be me, but I did come across a few that had a bit more  
general photography content:


http://citizenkoan.blogspot.com/2008/10/camera-club.html
(minor nudity warning)

Thanks for looking.

   -Marco


---
Web: http://www.alpert.com/marco
Blog: http://citizenkoan.blogspot.com


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Re: F--k Full Frame

[David Savage]

2008/10/22 Scott Loveless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 10/21/08, Matthew Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If I had a full-frame sensor, the tops of people's heads wouldn't be cut off.
>
> 7 hours and no one says it.  MARK!

What's Matt shooting? Groins & belly buttons?

:-)

Cheers,


Dave

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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Scott Loveless]

On 10/21/08, Matthew Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I had a full-frame sensor, the tops of people's heads wouldn't be cut off.

7 hours and no one says it.  MARK!

-- 
Scott Loveless
New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Anthony Farr]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> William Robb
> 
> Interestingly ehough, I understood exactly what he wrote, and interpreted
it
> correctly.
> 

It must be a Canadian English vs Australian English thing.

> 
> Did JCO hijack your mail account?
> 
> William Robb
> 

Naah.  I'm struggling to be a voice of reason while so many Pentaxians are
wallowing in Full Frame Envy.  It's measurebating gone mad.

I simply kept my focus upon the subject, as I read.  When Adam changed his
intended subject in an ungrammatical way, in a fragmented and incomplete
sentence, I didn't catch it.  Hell, even Microsoft Word spat his sentence
back as a grammatical train wreck.  IMO my misinterpretation was down to bad
writing, not bad reading.  But Adam doesn't wan't to know about it.

You're being very mellow, Bill.  Wotcha drinking?

Regards, Anthony


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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Loveday" 
Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap






I pushed the line once, and got spanked for it.
This is the page in question.
http://pug.komkon.org/01mar/kasia.html


Well, no wonder.  It was taken with a Canon.


HAR!!! How did THAT get past me?

William Robb

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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[Peter Loveday]

I pushed the line once, and got spanked for it.
This is the page in question.
http://pug.komkon.org/01mar/kasia.html


Well, no wonder.  It was taken with a Canon.

- Peter


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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[Christine Aguila]

- Original Message - 
From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I pushed the line once, and got spanked for it.


My guess is that tomorrow morning we'll have a Cottyonian witticism to the 
above ;-).



This is the page in question.
http://pug.komkon.org/01mar/kasia.html




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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[Christine Aguila]

I have no problem with the office/family mandate.  My PUG theme suggestions 
weren't all *that* serious :-).  Just in a silly mood when I posted that. 
I'm sure, Scott, you'll do a great job of picking next year's themes *etc* 
;-).  Cheers, Christine



- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Loveless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap



On 10/21/08, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 - Original Message - From: "Christine Aguila"
 Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap



> January:  nudes:  I'm serious:



 Prove it.
 You go first. :-)

 Respectfully, I have to disagree. When I took over the PUG from Mark
Cassino, one of the mandates I was given was that it was to be and remain 
a

family/office friendly gallery.


There used to be a FAQ or some guidelines for submitting photos, and
"office friendly" was mentioned.  I spent some time looking for it the
other day and couldn't find it.  But, yes, I would have to cull any
photos with "objectionable" content.  Considering that I live in the
US and have worked in some very conservative office environments, I
doubt anything I upload to the PUG would be offensive to anyone
anywhere.

FWIW, I'm not opposed to nudes.  We need more nude PESOs and GESOs,
please.  Like now.  :)

--
Scott Loveless
New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Peso Life north of 19th

[Christine Aguila]

Hi Dave:  Time to get those boots out.  Cheers, Christine


- Original Message - 
From: "David J Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax Discuss" ; "Barbara Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Harry Bolton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:25 PM
Subject: Peso Life north of 19th



Seems to get earlier and earlier every year.

Last year it was Nov 8th. Thanksgiving we sat under the sun in +20 
degrees.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/2961905259/

Its now starting to stay on the ground, better start the wood stove.

Dave

--
Equine Photography
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
Ontario Canada

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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Loveless" 
Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap





There used to be a FAQ or some guidelines for submitting photos, and
"office friendly" was mentioned.  I spent some time looking for it the
other day and couldn't find it.  But, yes, I would have to cull any
photos with "objectionable" content.  Considering that I live in the
US and have worked in some very conservative office environments, I
doubt anything I upload to the PUG would be offensive to anyone
anywhere.


I pushed the line once, and got spanked for it.
This is the page in question.
http://pug.komkon.org/01mar/kasia.html



FWIW, I'm not opposed to nudes.  We need more nude PESOs and GESOs,
please.  Like now.  :)


Like I'm working on it.

William Robb

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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Christine Aguila]

Hi Ken:  Very nice.  Lovely color.  Cheers, Christine


- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"


Please check out 
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html


Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear 
head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Christine Aguila]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


From: "Mark Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"



Ken Waller wrote:
Please check out 
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html


Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini 
gear head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.


Very nice.
Are you branching out or turning over a new leaf?


I'm afraid I'm too vein to answer. 


I'll leaf that to someone else.



Well, I think Ken's feeling a little stemmed in.


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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Ken Waller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"



Ken Waller wrote:
Please check out 
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html


Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini 
gear head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.


Very nice.
Are you branching out or turning over a new leaf?


I'm afraid I'm too vein to answer. 


I'll leaf that to someone else.




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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[Scott Loveless]

On 10/21/08, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  - Original Message - From: "Christine Aguila"
>  Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

> > January:  nudes:  I'm serious:

>  Prove it.
>  You go first. :-)
>
>  Respectfully, I have to disagree. When I took over the PUG from Mark
> Cassino, one of the mandates I was given was that it was to be and remain a
> family/office friendly gallery.

There used to be a FAQ or some guidelines for submitting photos, and
"office friendly" was mentioned.  I spent some time looking for it the
other day and couldn't find it.  But, yes, I would have to cull any
photos with "objectionable" content.  Considering that I live in the
US and have worked in some very conservative office environments, I
doubt anything I upload to the PUG would be offensive to anyone
anywhere.

FWIW, I'm not opposed to nudes.  We need more nude PESOs and GESOs,
please.  Like now.  :)

-- 
Scott Loveless
New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Christine Aguila"

Subject: Re: PUG themes, submissions, and some random crap



January:  nudes:  I'm serious:



Prove it.
You go first. :-)

Respectfully, I have to disagree. When I took over the PUG from Mark 
Cassino, one of the mandates I was given was that it was to be and remain a 
family/office friendly gallery.


Thanks

William Robb





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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Farr"

Subject: RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?



Adam,

I did read what you said and understood what you said (as well as your
grammar would permit).  The problem is, despite what you intended to say,
your words say something different.  You made mistakes, and screwed your
statement.  Perhaps you could have a fine career as a Japlish to Engrish
instruction manual interpreter.


Interestingly ehough, I understood exactly what he wrote, and interpreted it 
correctly.




You began your paragraph on the subject of Olympus 's 4/3 cameras thus,
"So Oly IS stuck with a small format sensor when the market is moving
seriously towards larger sensors. m43 will be a different case, in that
market the primary competition will be the small sensor 'bridge' P&S's, 
not
DSLR's and m43 will have serious IQ advantages, particularly at high 
ISO's."


If you mean to change the subject, then you need to begin a new paragraph,
that's why we use paragraphs.  Your statement, on the tail of a
grammatically fault-ridden sentence, was that " m43 will have serious IQ
advantages, particularly at high ISO's."  You didn't clearly and correctly
say what m43 had the advantage over, but a new paragraph wasn't begun so 
it
follows that the subject of the paragraph must still have been Olympus 
4/3.

Even though you made a passing reference to bridge cameras as market
competitors to m43, the faulty structure of that sentence made it a
self-contained statement and apparently not part of the ensuing 
comparison.
The meaning might swing either way, but it was ambiguous and the only way 
to

decipher it was to follow the grammar.  That was wrong so it all went to
hell in a handbasket.  BTW, as I write this, 'MS Word' is flagging your
sentence, demanding that I revise it.

Now that you've revisited your writings your intended meaning is clear
(maybe).

Don't blame me for the misunderstanding.  You need to write better.


Did JCO hijack your mail account?

William Robb 



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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 15:58 , Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to  
read
around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses,  
especially
wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras,  
especially
so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new  
lens will
be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically  
had been
intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut  
out the

middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway,  
so cut

your losses on it and move on.



Please don't tell my insurance company that the value of my SMCP-A  
15mm f3.5 has been devalued!


Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian

P.S. The police have given up on any good leads toward the recovery of  
my equipment.
P.P.S.  A SMCP-A* 135mm f1.8 was on eBay last week, in Poland, for  
$2600 US. Didn't sell.



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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Adam,
>
> I did read what you said and understood what you said (as well as your
> grammar would permit).  The problem is, despite what you intended to say,
> your words say something different.  You made mistakes, and screwed your
> statement.  Perhaps you could have a fine career as a Japlish to Engrish
> instruction manual interpreter.
>
> You began your paragraph on the subject of Olympus 's 4/3 cameras thus,
> "So Oly IS stuck with a small format sensor when the market is moving
> seriously towards larger sensors. m43 will be a different case, in that
> market the primary competition will be the small sensor 'bridge' P&S's, not
> DSLR's and m43 will have serious IQ advantages, particularly at high ISO's."
>
> If you mean to change the subject, then you need to begin a new paragraph,
> that's why we use paragraphs.  Your statement, on the tail of a
> grammatically fault-ridden sentence, was that " m43 will have serious IQ
> advantages, particularly at high ISO's."  You didn't clearly and correctly
> say what m43 had the advantage over, but a new paragraph wasn't begun so it
> follows that the subject of the paragraph must still have been Olympus 4/3.
> Even though you made a passing reference to bridge cameras as market
> competitors to m43, the faulty structure of that sentence made it a
> self-contained statement and apparently not part of the ensuing comparison.
> The meaning might swing either way, but it was ambiguous and the only way to
> decipher it was to follow the grammar.  That was wrong so it all went to
> hell in a handbasket.  BTW, as I write this, 'MS Word' is flagging your
> sentence, demanding that I revise it.
>
> Now that you've revisited your writings your intended meaning is clear
> (maybe).
>
> Don't blame me for the misunderstanding.  You need to write better.
>
> Regards, Anthony
>
> P.S.Now you've done it, you've turned me into a Grammar Nazi.
> P.P.S.  Bugger, now I've invoked Godwin's Law
>

Hmm, I said that m43 would have serious IQ advantages, right after
stating that m43 would be competing against bridge P&S's. Pretty
damned clear.

My grammer isn't the problem, your ignoring the previous phrase in the
sentence in question is.

-- 
M. Adam Maas
http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Anthony Farr]

If you want to shoot film and digital in parallel (I wonder why?)then two
things can happen if the cameras have the same format.  One outcome is that
you'll go crazy swapping lenses from one camera to the other as you
alternate the medium.  The other outcome is that you'll want a duplicate set
of lenses, one set for each camera.  This isn't as silly as it sounds.  When
I shot film I had multiple prime lenses to choose from between 35mm and
135mm, plus 3 continuously overlapping zooms from 24mm to 210mm and a single
example of a 17mm and a 500mm.  So, from 35mm to 135mm I was always able to
have two cameras at the same focal length.  That might also be your
situation.

But having different formats creates an interesting possibility.  If you
contrive to have your lenses separated by an interval of 1.5x focal lengths
(as near as possible), then you can achieve parallel shooting while not
needing a duplicate lens at each focal length.  All it means is that you
need one wideangle lens 1.5x shorter and one tele lens 1.5x longer to get a
full set of equivalent-field-of-view pairs of lenses.

You can buy a lot of lens for the price difference between an APS DSLR and a
FF DSLR.  Pentax will earn more by selling you lenses than selling you
cameras.  What would you do if you were Pentax?  How many Pentax customers
will pay a 100% premium to get a full frame sensor?  It'll come when the
price gap shortens, but Cotty's hat is safe for the moment.  

Regards, Anthony 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> John Sessoms
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 12:01 PM
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: RE: Full Frame: what is it?
> 
> From: Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
> > investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to read
> > around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses,
especially
> > wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras,
especially
> > so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new lens
will
> > be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically had
been
> > intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut out
the
> > middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
> > residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway, so
cut
> > your losses on it and move on.
> 
> Because it's not about residual value and middlemen or "interaweb" old
> wives tales.
> 
> It's about I already have the lenses; I already use them with my current
> digital equipment while continuing to use them with my film equipment. I
> have a kit that works with both my film & my digital SLRs. I intend to
> keep it that way.
> 
> But I would like to get the same angle of view out of the lens from both
> my film and my digital cameras. It would be convenient. I'm not going to
> buy an additional lens just to overcome the crop factor.
> 
> If Pentax eventually comes out with a "Full Frame" DSLR, I might buy one
> if I have the money.
> 
> If I do buy one, one of the reasons for doing so would be so I could
> take advantage of my existing wide angle lenses. ONE of the reasons.
> 
> There would have to be other advantages, or it wouldn't be enough to
> motivate me to buy another DSLR.
> 
> 


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Re: Fez - candidate essay for the RPS. Opinions please.

[Stan Halpin]

A few thoughts. First, again with the caveat that I am not familiar  
with the photo-essay concept as might be interpreted by the  
distinguished learned judges, I have been uncomfortable with the two- 
part structure you have selected since you first mentioned it.  
Without narration (as in a live slide show) (assuming that the essay  
needs to stand on its own) then what ties the two halves together?  
Looking at this version, I am left with the same question.
Taking the two parts separately, I think the tannery portion is good.  
Good images, it tells a story, it starts wide, comes into details, it  
ends with an exclamation point.  I struggled to find a theme in the  
second portion. At first I thought it was about commerce in the  
streets. Oh, no, it is about cats. No, it is about the people in  
everyday life. I guess.


My suggestions would be: a) flip the two halves; b) for the street- 
scenes portion, mix the order a bit so that, for example, you move  
from commerce to normal people and back to disabuse the viewer that  
there is any theme but the variety of street life. My specific  
ordering, using current ordinal numbers from the site, would be 8,  
10, 11, 14, 9, 12, 13, 15, 1-7, 16. This sequence would have you  
starting with a wide shot to establish the locale, zooming in to wide  
angle street scenes, then further in to tighter shots, then back out  
(with #1) to a subset of the city, then into the gritty details of  
the tanning operation, ending with a tight exclamation of color (#7),  
then back out to the afternoon light over the larger city to put it  
all back into context again. #1 becomes the answer to my question  
about what ties the two halves together. And this sequence or similar  
would keep #9, but would bury it deeper; as a first detail shot in  
the sequence it is too jarring, but as a middle shot it fits into the  
context established.


The ordering of the halves is almost a glass half-empty vs. glass  
half-full proposition. My way says: Isn't this a nice interesting  
city with friendly exotic looking people going about their daily  
lives. But in the background we have this nasty work that is done to  
produce items of beauty. Your way says: Look at this nasty work to  
produce a fine product (sub-text: and we unrepentant colonizers never  
think about this side of life), but oh by the way the city does have  
its charms as well. Putting the street scenes first lets the viewer  
put the tannery into that context, but putting the tannery first  
forces the viewer to put it into their own context. Which may be out  
of synch with the second half of the essay. E.g., the second half  
could just as well be street shots in London or Paris with details of  
gents' shoes and ladies' handbags and schoolboys' leather day packs.


One other thought. Following my sequence and my story line, it would  
be nice to have the last shot in the first sequence be another street  
scene, but one with leather goods for sale in the background. I think  
this was mentioned before, and you said you don't have such a shot.  
So why don't you hop over on Saturday and take such a shot? Are you a  
dedicated photographer or not?


Final caveat: I would like to think that I could come up with an  
equivalent set of images in the same time period if I were to travel  
there, but I don't have a Leica. Or your good eye.

Thanks for asking for our input.

stan


On Oct 17, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Bob W wrote:


Here's another draft of the slideshow, incorporating some suggestions
people have kindly made:
http://www.web-options.com/ARPS2/

Comments solicited.

Thanks,
Bob






From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Whatever their other qualities, the RPS judges just won't even
consider them if they have gross technical faults.


How very middleagedwhitemale of them.  Don't they know art
(sorry, Art) when they see it?

Outraged of Notting Hill




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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Anthony Farr]

> 
> Which is a pretty good description of the newer lenses which are also
> stand-out performers.
> 

Not having to buy new lenses is one of the justifications for "needing" a
36mm x 24mm sensor.  (I made an ironic shrug)

Regards, Anthony

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 10:40 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Full Frame: what is it?
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>
> >> And also replete with tales of film-era lenses (like the Zeiss 21/2.8
> >> Distagon and the 21/3.5 and 21/2 Zuiko's) seriously outperforming
> >> those new designs on digital.
> >>
> >
> > The lenses named are uncommonly good lenses, the key word being
> > "uncommonly".
> >
> > Regards, Anthony
> >
> 
> Which is a pretty good description of the newer lenses which are also
> stand-out performers. Plenty of craptacular new glass as well as old.
> 
> --
> M. Adam Maas
> http://www.mawz.ca
> Explorations of the City Around Us.
> 
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RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Anthony Farr]

Adam,

I did read what you said and understood what you said (as well as your
grammar would permit).  The problem is, despite what you intended to say,
your words say something different.  You made mistakes, and screwed your
statement.  Perhaps you could have a fine career as a Japlish to Engrish
instruction manual interpreter.

You began your paragraph on the subject of Olympus 's 4/3 cameras thus,
"So Oly IS stuck with a small format sensor when the market is moving
seriously towards larger sensors. m43 will be a different case, in that
market the primary competition will be the small sensor 'bridge' P&S's, not
DSLR's and m43 will have serious IQ advantages, particularly at high ISO's."

If you mean to change the subject, then you need to begin a new paragraph,
that's why we use paragraphs.  Your statement, on the tail of a
grammatically fault-ridden sentence, was that " m43 will have serious IQ
advantages, particularly at high ISO's."  You didn't clearly and correctly
say what m43 had the advantage over, but a new paragraph wasn't begun so it
follows that the subject of the paragraph must still have been Olympus 4/3.
Even though you made a passing reference to bridge cameras as market
competitors to m43, the faulty structure of that sentence made it a
self-contained statement and apparently not part of the ensuing comparison.
The meaning might swing either way, but it was ambiguous and the only way to
decipher it was to follow the grammar.  That was wrong so it all went to
hell in a handbasket.  BTW, as I write this, 'MS Word' is flagging your
sentence, demanding that I revise it.

Now that you've revisited your writings your intended meaning is clear
(maybe). 

Don't blame me for the misunderstanding.  You need to write better.

Regards, Anthony

P.S.Now you've done it, you've turned me into a Grammar Nazi.
P.P.S.  Bugger, now I've invoked Godwin's Law


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 10:01 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>  and m43 will have serious IQ advantages,
> >> particularly at high ISO's.
> >
> > m43 better IQ than 4/3.  How?
> >
> > You're crazy.  You really are.
> >
> > Regards, Anthony
> >
> 
> You might actually try reading what I said. I was comparing m43 to
> 'bridge' P&S cameras, where m43 has a major IQ advantage, particularly
> at high ISO's. m43's primary competition is high-end P&S's. 4/3rds
> primary competition is other DSLR's, where it is at a minor to major
> IQ disadvantage, depending on ISO.
> 
> --
> M. Adam Maas
> http://www.mawz.ca
> Explorations of the City Around Us.
> 


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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[JC OConnell]

FF puts less pressure on lens quality, i.e. you
Get better picture quality for a given level of
Lens quality vs APS . The only caveat would be FF wide
Angles with really poor corner performance in terms
Of sharpness or vignetting.

JC O'Connell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
John Sessoms
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:01 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Full Frame: what is it?

From: Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
> investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to
read
> around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses,
especially
> wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras,
especially
> so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new lens
will
> be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically had
been
> intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut
out the
> middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
> residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway, so
cut
> your losses on it and move on.

Because it's not about residual value and middlemen or "interaweb" old 
wives tales.

It's about I already have the lenses; I already use them with my current

digital equipment while continuing to use them with my film equipment. I

have a kit that works with both my film & my digital SLRs. I intend to 
keep it that way.

But I would like to get the same angle of view out of the lens from both

my film and my digital cameras. It would be convenient. I'm not going to

buy an additional lens just to overcome the crop factor.

If Pentax eventually comes out with a "Full Frame" DSLR, I might buy one

if I have the money.

If I do buy one, one of the reasons for doing so would be so I could 
take advantage of my existing wide angle lenses. ONE of the reasons.

There would have to be other advantages, or it wouldn't be enough to 
motivate me to buy another DSLR.


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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[John Sessoms]

From: Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to read
around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses, especially
wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras, especially
so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new lens will
be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically had been
intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut out the
middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway, so cut
your losses on it and move on.


Because it's not about residual value and middlemen or "interaweb" old 
wives tales.


It's about I already have the lenses; I already use them with my current 
digital equipment while continuing to use them with my film equipment. I 
have a kit that works with both my film & my digital SLRs. I intend to 
keep it that way.


But I would like to get the same angle of view out of the lens from both 
my film and my digital cameras. It would be convenient. I'm not going to 
buy an additional lens just to overcome the crop factor.


If Pentax eventually comes out with a "Full Frame" DSLR, I might buy one 
if I have the money.


If I do buy one, one of the reasons for doing so would be so I could 
take advantage of my existing wide angle lenses. ONE of the reasons.


There would have to be other advantages, or it wouldn't be enough to 
motivate me to buy another DSLR.



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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Mark Roberts]

David Savage wrote:


2008/10/22 John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Go take pictures!


> I have been.
>
> With a FF camera no less.




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Re: PESO: Silver Pants

[David J Brooks]

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I was with Grace and getting into my 55 Chevy.

What, nobody buys drinks anymore.:-)

Dave
> Paul
>
>  -- Original message --
> From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> "Oh, hey, wait a minute..I think the pavarotti finally found me".
>> Looks like she has the runway walk down.
>> Nice bold grab
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 10/11/08, PN Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > From: PN Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > Subject: PESO: Silver Pants
>> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>> > Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:00 PM
>> > http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=7997556
>> >
>> > --
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>> > directly above and follow the directions.
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Re: PESO: Silver Pants

[David J Brooks]

Missed this one.

Nice shot, well lite and good shadow detail.

Among other things.:-)

Dave

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM, PN Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=7997556
>
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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ken Waller wrote:
>>
>> Please check out
>> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
>>
>> Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear
>> head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.
>>
>> A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.
>
> Very nice.
> Are you branching out or turning over a new leaf?

He's trying to get to the root of it all.

Dave
>
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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[David Savage]

2008/10/22 David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:22 PM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 2008/10/22 David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>>> wrote:

 On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:05 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

> I still don't see the big deal of FF.
>
> I know people say then their 24 will be a 24. not a 35 equivalent,
> etc, but just do what I do.
>
> I step back a bit.:-)

 The idiocy is that a 24mm lens is *always* a 24mm lens. The focal length
 only defines a field of view in the context of a format definition.
>>>
>>> I know that, was just trying to be funny :-)
>>
>> I thought it was funny.
>
> Then you've been Nikonized then.:-)

I've found this whole thread rather amusing though.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[David J Brooks]

Nice. The orange against the green works well.

Dave

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Ken Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
>
> Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear
> head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.
>
> A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
>
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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:22 PM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2008/10/22 David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:05 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>>>
 I still don't see the big deal of FF.

 I know people say then their 24 will be a 24. not a 35 equivalent,
 etc, but just do what I do.

 I step back a bit.:-)
>>>
>>> The idiocy is that a 24mm lens is *always* a 24mm lens. The focal length
>>> only defines a field of view in the context of a format definition.
>>
>> I know that, was just trying to be funny :-)
>
> I thought it was funny.

Then you've been Nikonized then.:-)

Dave B
>
> DS
>
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Re: F--k Full Frame

[David Savage]

2008/10/22 David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I have been.
>
> With a FF camera no less.

...of a FF camera.



DS


> 2008/10/22 John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Go take pictures!
>>
>>
>> John
>

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Re: F--k Full Frame

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Go take pictures!

I can't. All my cameras are obsolete. How does one take any photos
with some 10meg camera


Dave
>
>
> John
>
> --
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> http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto
>
>
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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[David Savage]

2008/10/22 David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:05 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> I still don't see the big deal of FF.
>>>
>>> I know people say then their 24 will be a 24. not a 35 equivalent,
>>> etc, but just do what I do.
>>>
>>> I step back a bit.:-)
>>
>> The idiocy is that a 24mm lens is *always* a 24mm lens. The focal length
>> only defines a field of view in the context of a format definition.
>
> I know that, was just trying to be funny :-)

I thought it was funny.

DS

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Re: F--k Full Frame

[David Savage]

I have been.

With a FF camera no less.

2008/10/22 John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Go take pictures!
>
>
> John

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Re: Tilt adapter for Pentacon Six lenses... has arrived! :D

[Charles Robinson]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 18:27, Timber wrote:

http://flickr.com/photos/timbah/2953219208
I like the DOF on this picture. Only the 2 buildings I wanted are in  
focus, the rest is OOF. Check the frontal OOF lights having so  
interesting shape (instead of circle like as the back OOF ones).

The Tilt adapter was rotated like 60 degrees CCW.



Well now that's just darned cool.

 -Charles

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> And also replete with tales of film-era lenses (like the Zeiss 21/2.8
>> Distagon and the 21/3.5 and 21/2 Zuiko's) seriously outperforming
>> those new designs on digital.
>>
>
> The lenses named are uncommonly good lenses, the key word being
> "uncommonly".
>
> Regards, Anthony
>

Which is a pretty good description of the newer lenses which are also
stand-out performers. Plenty of craptacular new glass as well as old.

-- 
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http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Bob Sullivan]

Ken,
Very nice, simple and I enjoy seeing the detail in the leaves, both
front and background.
I think I remember the landscape version and this zeros in on the
interesting part.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Ken Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
>
> Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear
> head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.
>
> A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
>
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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Jack Davis]

LOL!

J


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Matthew Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Matthew Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: F--k Full Frame
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 4:14 PM
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Jack Davis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not having a full frame sensor is the ONLY thing
> keeping me from becoming a world famous photog. :(
> 
> If I had a full-frame sensor, the tops of people's
> heads wouldn't be cut off.
> 
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RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[Anthony Farr]

The vagueness of manual focusing is more a characteristic of autofocus
screens than it is of the format size.  I've used small format cameras that
had better focus 'snap' than some larger format cameras.

Viewfinder image size is a no-win situation for the manufacturers.  When I
got my first ME-Super I loved the viewfinder image, probably because it was
nearly as large (but nowhere as bright) as my Bronica ETR.  Later, when I
got a Super-A, I was relieved that the viewfinder image was smaller.  The
smaller image could be appreciated and acted upon quickly with little eye
movement, whereas the big image needed larger eye movements and more time to
appreciate the whole picture.

Freedom of choice is a good thing.

Regards, Anthony

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Bob W
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 9:51 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?
> 
> That's certainly one of the disadvantages that I've found with my 4/3
> cameras. Although the viewfinders are pretty good, manual focusing is far
> easier on something like the LX or MX. The Olympus E-3 magnifies the
> viewfinder image 1.5 times, which is an improvement, but still not up
there,
> and one of the reasons why I'm interested a rangefiner digital camera. But
I
> still prefer being able to compose then focus on ground glass anywhere
> within the viewfinder.
> 
> Bob
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> JC
> > OConnell
> > Sent: 21 October 2008 23:25
> > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> > Subject: RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?
> >
> > I miss the LARGE stunning viewfinders my FF 35mm SLRS have compared to
> > The tunnel vision if the istDS.
> >
> > JC O'Connell
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Anthony Farr]

> 
> And also replete with tales of film-era lenses (like the Zeiss 21/2.8
> Distagon and the 21/3.5 and 21/2 Zuiko's) seriously outperforming
> those new designs on digital.
>

The lenses named are uncommonly good lenses, the key word being
"uncommonly".

Regards, Anthony

 


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Tilt adapter for Pentacon Six lenses... has arrived! :D

[Timber]

Hi list!

It's me again with my newest little toy :D a Pentacon Six Tilt-rotator 
adapter.
It was like 120 bucks but I am really happy to have it. I have some PSix 
lenses (CZJ 50/f4, 80/f2.8, 180/f2.8, 300/f4) and so far I only did a 
'field-test' with the 80mm Biometar.


Here are some shots made during my first photowalking day with the 
Tilted Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar 80mm f2.8 lens on the Pentax K20D.
All shots are only resized and framed. No photoshopping on any of the 
pictures.


http://flickr.com/photos/timbah/2953222008/
(here in Hungary the Indian Summer is called "Old Ladies' Summer", which 
is the title :D)


http://flickr.com/photos/timbah/2952370619/
This one really has the plotting board feeling.

http://flickr.com/photos/timbah/2953219208
I like the DOF on this picture. Only the 2 buildings I wanted are in 
focus, the rest is OOF. Check the frontal OOF lights having so 
interesting shape (instead of circle like as the back OOF ones).

The Tilt adapter was rotated like 60 degrees CCW.

http://flickr.com/photos/timbah/2953218698/
This one was made handheld with shutter speed as low as 1/4. No blur at 
80mm. So my big kudos goes to the Pentax Engineer team for this awesome 
image stabilizing system!


More on my flickr photostream :D

Comments and critiques are welcome (here or under the flickr page :D)

Cheers,
.timber (the gadget freak pentaxian :D)

Ps.: Since I have macro extension tube for Pentacon Six system the next 
thing I will try is doing macro with tilt lenses... while in normal 
photography the tilt system is used to reduce DOF in macro it can be 
used to increse DOF. Excited to try it out... :D


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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Matthew Hunt]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not having a full frame sensor is the ONLY thing keeping me from becoming a 
> world famous photog. :(

If I had a full-frame sensor, the tops of people's heads wouldn't be cut off.

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Re: OT PESO - The Pusher Man

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM, frank theriault
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Paul, the local pusher of sundry used film gear, especially Pentax
>> kit. He loves them Spotmatics.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawz/2961404124/
>>
>> Larger/Direct link:
>>
>> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2961404124_c89fb171cc_o.jpg
>
> What's not to like with Spotties?
>
> ;-)
>
> I didn't know his name, but I've certainly had chats with Paul on many
> occasions, especially when I've walked in with a film camera.  Nice
> portrait of him.
>
> cheers,
> frank
>

Thanks Frank. Paul's a good guy, if a tad eccentric.

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Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: OT PESO - The Pusher Man

[Adam Maas]

Trustworthy, yes. Likes to toss lenses, yes.

;-)
-Adam


On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good portrait - he looks very trustworthy. I'd buy a used lens from him.
>
> Bob
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>> frank theriault
>> Sent: 21 October 2008 22:54
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: OT PESO - The Pusher Man
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Paul, the local pusher of sundry used film gear, especially Pentax
>> > kit. He loves them Spotmatics.
>> >
>> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawz/2961404124/
>> >
>> > Larger/Direct link:
>> >
>> > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2961404124_c89fb171cc_o.jpg
>>
>> What's not to like with Spotties?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> I didn't know his name, but I've certainly had chats with Paul on many
>> occasions, especially when I've walked in with a film camera.  Nice
>> portrait of him.
>>
>> cheers,
>> frank
>>
>> --
>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>
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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Jack Davis]

Not having a full frame sensor is the ONLY thing keeping me from becoming a 
world famous photog. :(

Jack


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: F--k Full Frame
> To: PDML@pdml.net
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 4:00 PM
> Go take pictures!
> 
> 
> John
> 
> --
> http://www.neovenator.com
> http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto
> 
> 
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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:00 PM, John Celio wrote:


Go take pictures!


I didn't know full frames could do that.

G

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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Adam Maas]

Been out shooting, as I do most every day.

-Adam

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, John Celio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Go take pictures!
>
>
> John
>
> --
> http://www.neovenator.com
> http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto
>
>
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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Jack Davis]

Uniquely dramatic limb shapes. Well scene and a clean image in spite of high 
ISO.

Jack


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Ken Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Ken Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 2:54 PM
> Please check out
> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
> 
> Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod
> with a mini gear 
> head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.
> 
> A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.
> 
> Comments appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
> 
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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
> investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to read
> around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses, especially
> wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras, especially
> so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new lens will
> be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically had been
> intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut out the
> middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
> residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway, so cut
> your losses on it and move on.
>
> Regards, Anthony
>

And also replete with tales of film-era lenses (like the Zeiss 21/2.8
Distagon and the 21/3.5 and 21/2 Zuiko's) seriously outperforming
those new designs on digital.


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Re: F--k Full Frame

[Peter Loveday]

Go take pictures!


I can't.  My camera is only APS-C.  I don't think they do pictures so well.

- Peter.


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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Anthony Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  and m43 will have serious IQ advantages,
>> particularly at high ISO's.
>
> m43 better IQ than 4/3.  How?
>
> You're crazy.  You really are.
>
> Regards, Anthony
>

You might actually try reading what I said. I was comparing m43 to
'bridge' P&S cameras, where m43 has a major IQ advantage, particularly
at high ISO's. m43's primary competition is high-end P&S's. 4/3rds
primary competition is other DSLR's, where it is at a minor to major
IQ disadvantage, depending on ISO.

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F--k Full Frame

[John Celio]

Go take pictures!


John

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Re: Peso Life north of 19th

[Jack Davis]

Brings back chilly memories of my living in the US mid west and ratifies my 
decision to move to California many years ago.
Does this mean we now have a 'global cooling' happening?

Jack 


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Peso Life north of 19th
> To: "Pentax Discuss" , "Barbara Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
> "Harry Bolton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 2:25 PM
> Seems to get earlier and earlier every year.
> 
> Last year it was Nov 8th. Thanksgiving we sat under the sun
> in +20 degrees.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/2961905259/
> 
> Its now starting to stay on the ground, better start the
> wood stove.
> 
> Dave
> 
> -- 
> Equine Photography
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> Ontario Canada
> 
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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Anthony Farr]

If you think being able to use old wide angle lenses will justify an
investment in a full frame camera (in whatever format), you need to read
around.  The interaweb is replete with tales of film era lenses, especially
wides, being found wanting when put in front of digital cameras, especially
so when the full frame is being imaged.  Almost inevitably a new lens will
be purchased soon after the new camera, a camera which ironically had been
intended to stretch the useful life of the old lenses.  Why not cut out the
middleman and buy a new lens for the camera you have right now.  The
residual value of the pre digital lens will be near to zero anyway, so cut
your losses on it and move on.

Regards, Anthony

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> John Sessoms
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 9:15 AM
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: Re: Full Frame: what is it?
> 
> From: Cory Waters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I too have never understood the obsession with the sensor's physical
> > size.  I'm shooting now with my K10D and getting pictures that are
> > really good quality.   The k20 is a little better, I suppose.  Are th
> > e"full frame" cameras better simply because of the size of the sensor?
> > I doubt it.
> > CW
> 
> The only "obsession" I have with it is my old wide angle lenses aren't
> so wide angle on a crop sensor. My 20 mm lens and 24mm lens have a wider
> angle of view on a film camera.
> 
> But, on my DSLR's they have an angle of view equivalent to 30mm and 36mm
> lenses ... 95 deg becomes 75 deg; 85 deg becomes 60 deg.
> 
> Other than that, it's no big deal.
> 
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RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[Bob W]

That's certainly one of the disadvantages that I've found with my 4/3
cameras. Although the viewfinders are pretty good, manual focusing is far
easier on something like the LX or MX. The Olympus E-3 magnifies the
viewfinder image 1.5 times, which is an improvement, but still not up there,
and one of the reasons why I'm interested a rangefiner digital camera. But I
still prefer being able to compose then focus on ground glass anywhere
within the viewfinder.

Bob

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JC
> OConnell
> Sent: 21 October 2008 23:25
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?
> 
> I miss the LARGE stunning viewfinders my FF 35mm SLRS have compared to
> The tunnel vision if the istDS.
> 
> JC O'Connell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RE: Full Frame: what is it?

[Anthony Farr]

> (the Voigtlander 12mm is available in F mount as well as
> LTM mount, although it requires lockable MLY, meaning F, F2 and
> Nikkormats only). 
> 

If you have to disable the R in SLR, then it isn't a functional SLR lens.  I
can put my camera on a microscope if I like, but it 'll never be a good
eyepiece.

Regards, Anthony


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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Mark Roberts]

Ken Waller wrote:
Please check out 
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html


Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini 
gear head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.


Very nice.
Are you branching out or turning over a new leaf?

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RE: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[JC OConnell]

I miss the LARGE stunning viewfinders my FF 35mm SLRS have compared to
The tunnel vision if the istDS.

JC O'Connell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
John Sessoms
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:21 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

From: Jaume Lahuerta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> And, if they were once, it was many years ago, when people here was
> worried about what their brand offered form a technical point of
> view. Now or they don't care much and/or just use other brands that
> better suit their needs.
> 
> Hey, does this mean that this list has reached a certain level of
> maturity? ;-)

The list has perhaps ... the denizens thereof ???

Personally, I'm sticking with the attitude "I may gotta' get older, but 
they ain't gonna' make me grow up!"

> - Mensaje original  De: John Sessoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Para: pdml@pdml.net Enviado: martes, 21 de octubre, 2008 13:52:32 
> Asunto: Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?
> 
> From: "John Celio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> I imagine threads like this on the PDML are making Pentax a
>>> little worried.
> 
> I imagine threads on the PDML are barely noticeable to Pentax.

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Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[John Sessoms]

From: Jaume Lahuerta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

And, if they were once, it was many years ago, when people here was
worried about what their brand offered form a technical point of
view. Now or they don't care much and/or just use other brands that
better suit their needs.

Hey, does this mean that this list has reached a certain level of
maturity? ;-)


The list has perhaps ... the denizens thereof ???

Personally, I'm sticking with the attitude "I may gotta' get older, but 
they ain't gonna' make me grow up!"


- Mensaje original  De: John Sessoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Para: pdml@pdml.net Enviado: martes, 21 de octubre, 2008 13:52:32 
Asunto: Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?


From: "John Celio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I imagine threads like this on the PDML are making Pentax a
little worried.


I imagine threads on the PDML are barely noticeable to Pentax.


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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[John Sessoms]

From: Cory Waters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I too have never understood the obsession with the sensor's physical 
size.  I'm shooting now with my K10D and getting pictures that are 
really good quality.   The k20 is a little better, I suppose.  Are th 
e"full frame" cameras better simply because of the size of the sensor?  
I doubt it.

CW


The only "obsession" I have with it is my old wide angle lenses aren't 
so wide angle on a crop sensor. My 20 mm lens and 24mm lens have a wider 
angle of view on a film camera.


But, on my DSLR's they have an angle of view equivalent to 30mm and 36mm 
lenses ... 95 deg becomes 75 deg; 85 deg becomes 60 deg.


Other than that, it's no big deal.

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RE: OT PESO - The Pusher Man

[Bob W]

Good portrait - he looks very trustworthy. I'd buy a used lens from him.

Bob

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> frank theriault
> Sent: 21 October 2008 22:54
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: OT PESO - The Pusher Man
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Paul, the local pusher of sundry used film gear, especially Pentax
> > kit. He loves them Spotmatics.
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawz/2961404124/
> >
> > Larger/Direct link:
> >
> > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2961404124_c89fb171cc_o.jpg
> 
> What's not to like with Spotties?
> 
> ;-)
> 
> I didn't know his name, but I've certainly had chats with Paul on many
> occasions, especially when I've walked in with a film camera.  Nice
> portrait of him.
> 
> cheers,
> frank
> 
> --
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[PN Stenquist]

Nice one. Of course you couldn't have taken it with a K20D, because  
everyone knows the K20D is noisy at 1600 :-)

Paul


On Oct 21, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Ken Waller wrote:


Please check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html

Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini  
gear head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

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RE: Lovely photos mostly of Egypt

[Bob W]

Yes indeed!

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Ken Waller
> Sent: 21 October 2008 20:44
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Lovely photos mostly of Egypt
> 
> A nice collection - well done.
> 
> I appreciated the speed of download !
> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Subject: Lovely photos mostly of Egypt
> 
> 
> > http://danasmillie.com/main.php
> >
> > -T
> 
> 
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RE: Fez - candidate essay for the RPS. Opinions please.

[Bob W]

Hi Boris,

Thanks for the comment - I hadn't noticed the similarity between 2 and 5
before. I will give some thought to that. The workshop is on Sunday, so I
may be making several changes, depending on their reactions to the pictures.

I like 9.

Can't write more, still in the middle of re-installing Windows and Office
following an act of gross stupidity over the weekend.

Bob

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Boris Liberman
> Sent: 20 October 2008 20:07
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Fez - candidate essay for the RPS. Opinions please.
> 
> Bob W wrote:
> > Here's another draft of the slideshow, incorporating some suggestions
> > people have kindly made:
> > http://www.web-options.com/ARPS2/
> >
> > Comments solicited.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bob
> 
> Bob, I think that #2 is considerably weaker than photo #5 whereas they
> seem to be about the same motif.
> 
> Also I am not entirely sure about photo #9, but may be I am mistaken in
> some way.
> 
> Just my cents worth.
> 
> Boris
> 
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Re: PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Ken Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html
>
> Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear
> head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.
>
> A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Very pretty!

cheers,
frank

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RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Anthony Farr]

>  and m43 will have serious IQ advantages,
> particularly at high ISO's.

m43 better IQ than 4/3.  How? 

You're crazy.  You really are.

Regards, Anthony


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PESO - "Color in the 'Hood"

[Ken Waller]

Please check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html

Taken with a K20D, 300mm f4.5 FA, on a Bogen 3221 tripod with a mini gear 
head, ISO 1600 - 1/400 sec @ f4.5.


A portrait orientation of the previously posted landscape.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

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Re: OT PESO - The Pusher Man

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Paul, the local pusher of sundry used film gear, especially Pentax
> kit. He loves them Spotmatics.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawz/2961404124/
>
> Larger/Direct link:
>
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2961404124_c89fb171cc_o.jpg

What's not to like with Spotties?

;-)

I didn't know his name, but I've certainly had chats with Paul on many
occasions, especially when I've walked in with a film camera.  Nice
portrait of him.

cheers,
frank

-- 
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Re: Peso Life north of 19th

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:42 PM, frank theriault
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:25 PM, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Seems to get earlier and earlier every year.
>>
>> Last year it was Nov 8th. Thanksgiving we sat under the sun in +20 degrees.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/2961905259/
>>
>> Its now starting to stay on the ground, better start the wood stove.
>>
>
> I work out at the airport.  It's snowing very very lightly right now -
> certainly not enough to stay on the ground, but it's gonna be a fun
> bike ride home to Yonge and Eglinton!
>
> Better get the shovels ready Dave, could be a long winter!

I put my blocks in the back of the pick up this afternoon. Its not
staying on the roads, but on the cars, grass and such.
Yup, it feels like a long one.

Dave
>
> ;-)
>
> cheers,
> frank
>
> --
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>
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Re: Peso Life north of 19th

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:25 PM, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seems to get earlier and earlier every year.
>
> Last year it was Nov 8th. Thanksgiving we sat under the sun in +20 degrees.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/2961905259/
>
> Its now starting to stay on the ground, better start the wood stove.
>

I work out at the airport.  It's snowing very very lightly right now -
certainly not enough to stay on the ground, but it's gonna be a fun
bike ride home to Yonge and Eglinton!

Better get the shovels ready Dave, could be a long winter!

;-)

cheers,
frank

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Mark Roberts]

Dario Bonazza wrote:

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


On Oct 21, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see larger sensor 4/3 cameras appear  
after the micro 4/3 gets established.


If it is a larger sensor, it isn't 4/3 System. By definition.


That's great news. We'll call it the Super 4/3.


In all seriousness, that's probably a good guess.

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Dario Bonazza]

Steve Desjardins wrote:


I prefer the Intel approach, "4/3 II".



Hmmm... what about "8/6"?

Dario

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Re: PESO 2008 - 154, 155, 156 - GDG

[frank theriault]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Christine  Aguila
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Moving On is lovely, Godfrey!  Cheers, Christine

That's my favorite, too.

cheers,
frank

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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:05 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>
>> I still don't see the big deal of FF.
>>
>> I know people say then their 24 will be a 24. not a 35 equivalent,
>> etc, but just do what I do.
>>
>> I step back a bit.:-)
>
> The idiocy is that a 24mm lens is *always* a 24mm lens. The focal length
> only defines a field of view in the context of a format definition.

I know that, was just trying to be funny :-)

Dave
>
> I see nothing particularly special about so-called "full frame" ...
> personally, I always thought 2:3 proportions were too oblong anyway. I'd
> rather have 4:5 or 3:4 proportion formats.
>
> I guess 6x4.5 isn't "full frame" either ... I mean, after all, there're
> 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x12, and 6x17 cm formats on 120mm roll film. And many
> of those cameras can share lenses. Which of them is "full frame", I
> wonder... ?
>
> Godfrey
>
>
>
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Peso Life north of 19th

[David J Brooks]

Seems to get earlier and earlier every year.

Last year it was Nov 8th. Thanksgiving we sat under the sun in +20 degrees.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/2961905259/

Its now starting to stay on the ground, better start the wood stove.

Dave

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Scott Loveless]

On 10/21/08, Steve Desjardins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I prefer the Intel approach, "4/3 II".

Yeah, but is it off by 1?

-- 
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New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Mark Roberts]

Steve Desjardins wrote:

I prefer the Intel approach, "4/3 II".


Or the Canon approach: 4/3 mk-II!


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Re: Lovely photos mostly of Egypt

[Ken Waller]

A nice collection - well done. 


I appreciated the speed of download !

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Lovely photos mostly of Egypt



http://danasmillie.com/main.php

-T



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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:29 , Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:31 AM, PN Stenquist wrote:

I guess 6x4.5 isn't "full frame" either ... I mean, after all,  
there're 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x12, and 6x17 cm formats on 120mm  
roll film. And many of those cameras can share lenses. Which of  
them is "full frame", I wonder... ?




8 x 10


A bit difficult to image that format on 120 roll film, however.



Not if I use my 120/220 roll film back on my 8 x 10 Deardorff.  Makes  
my 13" lens into an effective 52" lens?


Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Joseph McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> They are probably "barely" noticeable when it comes to design and R&D
> suggestions, as those departments are several years ahead of consumer
> product introductions. But as my post regarding EXIF problems in Aperture
> from several days ago suggests, someone in PentaxImaging here in the US is
> keeping up with PDML and other sites and passing data gained up the line to
> HQ in Japan. I suppose most if not all manufacturers of products that
> support online forums are doing the same. It's much less expensive than
> "focus groups".

I think they look at my PESOs, because I just got an e-mail from an
undisclosed address asking me to put black tape over all Pentax logos
on my bodies and lenses.  They said they made the suggestion so I'd
look more "pro", but I have other suspicions because they also told me
of ways I could erase all reference to Pentax in the EXIF data.
Hmmm...

cheers,
frank

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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:29 , PN Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


On Oct 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


I guess 6x4.5 isn't "full frame" either ... I mean, after all,  
there're 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x12, and 6x17 cm formats on 120mm  
roll film. And many of those cameras can share lenses. Which of  
them is "full frame", I wonder... ?




8 x 10



Which makes an 11 x 14 camera 

Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[JC OConnell]

There is only approx a 1 stop difference between the DOF
Of APS and FF with equiv AOV lenses, and if the FF sensor is less noise
you can
Stop down an extra stop by using double the ISO and end
Up with same DOF as APS.

JC O'Connell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Jos from Holland
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:58 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

Yes, but
only sharper at the point of focus..
The system with smaller sensor will show a larger depth of focus...
The depth of focus is best compromised for my photography at a size 
somewhere in between APS-C and FF (24x36)

Greetz Jos

JC OConnell wrote:
> At a given Mpixel sensor, FF yields less noise
> And sharper image vs APS because the pixels are
> Larger and the lenses are relatively sharper compared
> To those larger pixels. Same way 4x5 is better than MF,
> Or MF is better than 35mm.
>
> JC O'Connell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Steve Desjardins]

I prefer the Intel approach, "4/3 II".

This thread is such a delightful mix of semantics, optics, and sarcasm.
 Reminds me of why I subscribe to the PDML.  

>>> "Dario Bonazza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/21/2008 3:23 PM >>>
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> On Oct 21, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> 
>> I wouldn't be surprised to see larger sensor 4/3 cameras appear  
>> after the micro 4/3 gets established.
> 
> If it is a larger sensor, it isn't 4/3 System. By definition.

That's great news. We'll call it the Super 4/3.
The Olympus MktDept.

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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, frank theriault wrote:


15 frames per second?  ~Only~ 15 frames per second?  I laugh in your
general direction:

  http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp

Aim high, my friend.  You don't want 60fps, you ~need~ it.  Now!


insane.

G

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Re: Full Frame

[Joseph McAllister]

Sorry - forgot the credit on my last post:

Wikipedia.


Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Dario Bonazza]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


On Oct 21, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see larger sensor 4/3 cameras appear  
after the micro 4/3 gets established.


If it is a larger sensor, it isn't 4/3 System. By definition.


That's great news. We'll call it the Super 4/3.
The Olympus MktDept.

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Re: Full Frame

[Joseph McAllister]

In cinematography, full frame refers to the use of the full film gate  
at maximum width and height for 35 mm film cameras. It is sometimes  
also referred to as silent aperture, full gate, or a number of other  
similar word combinations. It is the original gate size pioneered by  
William Dickson and Thomas Edison in 1892 and first used in the short  
film Blacksmithing Scene. Full frame is generally used by all 4-perf  
films, whether silent, standard 35 (Academy ratio width), or Super 35.  
The introduction of Academy ratio in 1932 required that the lens mount  
needed to be shifted slightly horizontally to re-center the lens at  
the new center of frame; however, the gate size did not change as the  
extra negative information would be cropped out by lab processes in  
post-production. 4-perf Super 35 is nearly identical to the original  
full frame standard, although the lens mount requires vertical re- 
centering when common topline extraction is used. It should also be  
noted that hard mattes for all common ratios exist and either replace  
the film gate itself or are inserted within it. However, these are  
usually not used in the event that any reframing needs to be done.


A half-frame camera is a camera using a film format at half the  
intended exposure format. A common variety is the 18x24mm format on  
regular 135 film. It is the normal exposure format on 35mm movie  
cameras. For still cameras using the 35mm film, the usual format is  
24x36mm, so still cameras taking 18x24mm exposures are called half- 
frame cameras.


Medium format has traditionally referred to a film format in still  
photography and the related cameras and equipment which use this film.  
Generally, the term applies to film and cameras used to produce images  
larger than the 24 by 36 mm of 135 film, but smaller than the 4"×5"  
size, which is considered to be large format.
In digital photography, medium format refers either to cameras adapted  
from medium format film photography uses, or to cameras making use of  
sensors larger than that of a 35 mm film frame. Often, medium format  
film cameras can be fitted with digital camera backs, converting them  
to digital cameras, but some of these digital backs, especially early  
models, use sensors smaller than a 35 mm film frame. As of 2006,  
medium format digital photography sensors were available in sizes of  
up to 36 by 48 mm, with 39 million pixels for use with commonly  
available professional medium format cameras. Sensors used in special  
applications such as spy satellites can be even larger, but are not  
necessarily described as medium format equipment.



A lot of photographers will just need to "deal with it".


Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian
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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Not everyone needs to shoot at
> ISO 128,000 and 15 frames per second. Or wants to.

15 frames per second?  ~Only~ 15 frames per second?  I laugh in your
general direction:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp

Aim high, my friend.  You don't want 60fps, you ~need~ it.  Now!

cheers,
frank, who's watching these threads with great amusement, wondering
how he could ever be satisfied with his *istD!

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RE: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 07:36 , "JC OConnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Since medium format already has/had so many formats,  
645,6x6,6x7,6x8,6x9

Etc, I strongly doubt any camera company or photographers are going to
Us the simple term "FF"

   

How this branch of the conversation began was that someone belittled
Olympus
over not ever being able to go "full frame" because they were "stuck"
with a
lens mount incapable of supporting it.  I pointed out that Olympus  
has a

different platform that was intended to be the size it is, in which
context
it is indeed "full frame", albeit not 35mm "full frame".



May I stir the pot o'gruel?

Following the 'standard' of the film industry, the Olympus PEN cameras  
were originally referred to as "full frame" cameras, after the fact  
that their 'frames' were the same size as a motion picture 35mm 'frame."


That makes your Spotmatic or K-1000 a 'double-frame' camera, as well  
as all subsequent versions of what we refer to as 'full-frame' cameras.


Stew on that for a while, just to keep the nonsense alive.

Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The Voigtländer Heliar 12mm in Nikon mount is discontinued as far as I  
can discover. A lens that doesn't allow use of a reflex viewfinder is  
hardly an SLR lens, although it can be fitted to an SLR body.


I have no use for Sigma products. The one in 20 that meets the product  
specification generally performs ok. To me, that's just junk.


Godfrey


On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:26 AM, Adam Maas wrote:


3 SLR lenses (the Voigtlander 12mm is available in F mount as well as
LTM mount, although it requires lockable MLY, meaning F, F2 and
Nikkormats only). The Sigma 12-24 is actually a pretty good performer
with stellar control of distortion.

-Adam

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:27 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

Ok, three.  One SLR lens, one RF lens, and a piece of junk.

Big deal. ]'-)

G

On Oct 21, 2008, at 7:03 AM, Adam Maas wrote:


Nikon 13mm f5.6, Voigtlander 12mm f5.6, Sigma 12-24mm f4.5-5.6



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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Jos from Holland]

Yes, but
only sharper at the point of focus..
The system with smaller sensor will show a larger depth of focus...
The depth of focus is best compromised for my photography at a size 
somewhere in between APS-C and FF (24x36)


Greetz Jos

JC OConnell wrote:

At a given Mpixel sensor, FF yields less noise
And sharper image vs APS because the pixels are
Larger and the lenses are relatively sharper compared
To those larger pixels. Same way 4x5 is better than MF,
Or MF is better than 35mm.

JC O'Connell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Sony full frame A900, where's Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Adam Maas wrote:


... The thing about the 24mm lens 'being' a
24mm lens has more to do with the lack of lens choices wider than
24mm, especially primes for those of us who prefer them.


The reason for this is the use of SLR lens mounts that constrain lens  
designs for such wide angle lenses. There's little advantage to a  
prime lens when it is just as fast, complex, bulky and expensive as a  
zoom ... and performs identically.


This *is* the main thing that micro-4/3 (and other potential efforts  
like the Samsung micro APS) solve. The 20mm mount register, 80% of the  
normal for the format, means that compact, simple, high performance,  
short-focal length lenses are much easier to design and less expensive  
to make. The upcoming Panasonic Lumix G 20mm f/1.8 seen in prototype  
is smaller than the Pentax DA21/3.2 Limited. And probably less  
expensive.



Frankly, I'm kinda interested in one thing about the D3/D700, which is
a native 10MP 4:5 option (with auto-cropped viewfinder on the D3)
allowing you to compose easily in a nicer aspect ratio.


Yes, that's a nice feature.

I disagree that Olympus is "stuck" with the 4/3 sensor. It's a smaller  
format than so-called "APS-C" and so-called "FF", but so what? For  
those who appreciate the FoV/DoF and size advantages of the format ...  
and who are not infatuated with the "more bigger faster more more more  
more more more" BS that marketing tries to stuff down our throats ...  
it performs beautifully and makes superb photographs. I'm liking the  
results I'm getting with the measly old 5Mpixel, noisy, slow E-1 an  
lot. Not everyone needs to shoot at ISO 128,000 and 15 frames per  
second. Or wants to.


And Olympus does seem to be making a profit on their camera line, last  
I heard.


Godfrey

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Re: What do you all think of the micro 4/3 system?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 21, 2008, at 06:03 , John Sessoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


From: "John Celio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I imagine threads like this on the PDML are making Pentax a little  
worried.


I imagine threads on the PDML are barely noticeable to Pentax.


They are probably "barely" noticeable when it comes to design and R&D  
suggestions, as those departments are several years ahead of consumer  
product introductions. But as my post regarding EXIF problems in  
Aperture from several days ago suggests, someone in PentaxImaging here  
in the US is keeping up with PDML and other sites and passing data  
gained up the line to HQ in Japan. I suppose most if not all  
manufacturers of products that support online forums are doing the  
same. It's much less expensive than "focus groups".


Just got off the phone with Pentax USA and they do not have an  
answer. But they are reading this forum, and in fact were reading my  
last post re: EXIF when the phone tech called them up with this  
problem. So our whines are heard. Good to know. (Hi guys!)



Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian

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Re: PESO: Autumn Run

[PN Stenquist]

Very nice. Well composed. And it's shot in one of my favorite places.
Paul
On Oct 20, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:


Here is a shot from a nice Sunday morning in the Morton Arboretum...

http://picasaweb.google.com/rf.sullivan/Autumn#5259387443044581714

K20D, 31mm, f4 @ 1/200th & ISO200
Comments?

Regards,  Bob S.

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Re: PESO: Autumn Run

[frank theriault]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a shot from a nice Sunday morning in the Morton Arboretum...
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rf.sullivan/Autumn#5259387443044581714
>
> K20D, 31mm, f4 @ 1/200th & ISO200
> Comments?
>
> Regards,  Bob S.

That's lovely!

cheers,
frank

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Re: Autumn Run

[Joseph McAllister]

On Oct 20, 2008, at 23:07 , "Ken Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The backlighting is great along with the nice light. But I'd like  
the runner to be more prominent in the frame.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>


Subject: PESO: Autumn Run



Here is a shot from a nice Sunday morning in the Morton Arboretum...

http://picasaweb.google.com/rf.sullivan/Autumn#5259387443044581714

K20D, 31mm, f4 @ 1/200th & ISO200
Comments?



That would be one way to have the image composed. I like it just the  
way it is. The runner draws the eye to her, but the grandeur of the  
forest is the frame, and they work as is in my eyes.


Great shot, Bob..

Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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OT PESO - The Pusher Man

[Adam Maas]

Paul, the local pusher of sundry used film gear, especially Pentax
kit. He loves them Spotmatics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawz/2961404124/

Larger/Direct link:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2961404124_c89fb171cc_o.jpg

Nikon D40, Voigtlander 40mm f2 pancake, 1/100, f2, ISO 400, -1/3 exp comp.

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Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Adam Maas]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Francis wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't call the Nikon 13mm a piece of junk :-)
>>
>> Seriously, though, I knew many people who owned and used the Sigma
>> (mostly in Canon mount).  It seemed to produce reasonable results.
>
> I'm a big fan of the Sigma EX series lenses. I'd rate the 180/3.5 macro with
> some of the best Pentax lenses, in terms of image quality and construction.
>
>

The Sigma 12-24 is not up to the performance of other EX series lenses
like the 10-20 or the 180 macro. But it is quite good nonetheless and
the distortion control is incredibly good, better than any other zoom
in its FoV range and also better than most ultra-wide primes.


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Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Full Frame: what is it?

[Mark Roberts]

John Francis wrote:

I wouldn't call the Nikon 13mm a piece of junk :-)

Seriously, though, I knew many people who owned and used the Sigma
(mostly in Canon mount).  It seemed to produce reasonable results.


I'm a big fan of the Sigma EX series lenses. I'd rate the 180/3.5 macro 
with some of the best Pentax lenses, in terms of image quality and 
construction.


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