Re: Re: Dilemma

[collinb]

Thanks for the info. I was aware of the limited production but not of the 
allocations. I’ve see a variety of speculations about the specifics of the 
anniversary (75th, 1Mth, 2Mth) but that’s sort of immaterial as it remains an 
anniversary model.

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> Ah, a Rollei 35S Silber. That's a real collectible, and a fine little camera.
>
> The Rollei 35S Silber was produced in a very limited run during 1979 to 
> celebrate the one millionth Rollei 35S produced. It was never offered with a 
> retail price or advertised, being offered to dealers at about $155 cost with 
> dealers  supposed to be offering it to their best Rollei customers at 
> whatever markup they felt was appropriate. The original set included a 
> certificate that, when mailed in, would deliver to the customer an engraved 
> badge that fit in the little section on the back in the leather that you 
> popped off the camera as a commemorative notion. The Silber also included a 
> special case and certificate in the original box. 1500 of them were 
> distributed in the United States, and the distributor's note to dealers 
> included the notation "Limited quantity, offer never to be repeated."
>
> I had one of these for a while, one of five or six Rollei 35 cameras I 
> enjoyed. In all ways other than the commemorative notion and the special 
> finish and color, it is a standard Rollei 35S and works beautifully. I sold 
> it somewhere around 2008 or so when I divested myself of my over-abundance of 
> things Rollei 35; I kept my favorite black Rollei 35S only, and still have 
> and use it occasionally.
>
> The Canonet is another fine little camera but I have no personal connection 
> to that or any of the other raft of decent, small, fixed-lens RF cameras of 
> that era. There were a lot of them, most of them pretty good performers.
>
> G
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Re: Dilemma

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Ah, a Rollei 35S Silber. That's a real collectible, and a fine little camera. 

The Rollei 35S Silber was produced in a very limited run during 1979 to 
celebrate the one millionth Rollei 35S produced. It was never offered with a 
retail price or advertised, being offered to dealers at about $155 cost with 
dealers  supposed to be offering it to their best Rollei customers at whatever 
markup they felt was appropriate. The original set included a certificate that, 
when mailed in, would deliver to the customer an engraved badge that fit in the 
little section on the back in the leather that you popped off the camera as a 
commemorative notion. The Silber also included a special case and certificate 
in the original box. 1500 of them were distributed in the United States, and 
the distributor's note to dealers included the notation "Limited quantity, 
offer never to be repeated." 

I had one of these for a while, one of five or six Rollei 35 cameras I enjoyed. 
In all ways other than the commemorative notion and the special finish and 
color, it is a standard Rollei 35S and works beautifully. I sold it somewhere 
around 2008 or so when I divested myself of my over-abundance of things Rollei 
35; I kept my favorite black Rollei 35S only, and still have and use it 
occasionally. 

The Canonet is another fine little camera but I have no personal connection to 
that or any of the other raft of decent, small, fixed-lens RF cameras of that 
era. There were a lot of them, most of them pretty good performers. 

G


> On Jul 29, 2021, at 7:52 AM, coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote:
> 
> I've picked up two treasures this week. 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/
> 
> 
> 
> Do I (would you)
> 
> Sell both,
> 
> Keep both, or
> 
> Keep just 1?
> 
> 
> 
> Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
> better glass, but that much better?
> 
> The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
> just a viewfinder.
> 
> Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
> The Rollei battery holder is a pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Re: Dilemma

[collinb]

Agreed.

Mark C wrote:

> Sweet... I once had one of those Cannonet rangefinders and loved it.
>
> Mark
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Re: Re: Dilemma

[collinb]

The Canon was my first 35mm back in 1980. About a year later I got my first 
K1000 but would regularly shoot another GIII that I’d pick up here and there.

Yes, I was quite happy with the lens and results.

Matthew Hunt wrote:

> I don't have the broad experience with different cameras that many folks on 
> this list do, but my Canonet QL1\[7\] GIII is my sentimental favorite, and 
> the only film camera that I still occasionally use in the digital era. The 
> lens is probably better than you're anticipating.
>
> https://flickr.com/search/?user_id=13693939%40N07=date-taken-desc=canonet_all=1
>
> (The most recent ones, at the top, are part of a double-exposure
> project with a friend, where we each shot the same roll.)
>
> One of my Canonet shots was published in a book, quite large:
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/coneslayer/6953258544/in/photolist-ehEFdK-4J3Dz8-ekkcgp-sfXWfC-bArgw1-ehEFk4-ehLqp1-ehLqhA
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Re: Dilemma

[Matthew Hunt]

I don't have the broad experience with different cameras that many
folks on this list do, but my Canonet QL15 GIII is my sentimental
favorite, and the only film camera that I still occasionally use in
the digital era. The lens is probably better than you're anticipating.

https://flickr.com/search/?user_id=13693939%40N07=date-taken-desc=canonet_all=1

(The most recent ones, at the top, are part of a double-exposure
project with a friend, where we each shot the same roll.)

One of my Canonet shots was published in a book, quite large:

https://flickr.com/photos/coneslayer/6953258544/in/photolist-ehEFdK-4J3Dz8-ekkcgp-sfXWfC-bArgw1-ehEFk4-ehLqp1-ehLqhA


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 10:53 AM  wrote:
>
> I've picked up two treasures this week.
>
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/
>
>
>
> Do I (would you)
>
> Sell both,
>
> Keep both, or
>
> Keep just 1?
>
>
>
> Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
> better glass, but that much better?
>
> The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
> just a viewfinder.
>
> Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
> The Rollei battery holder is a pain.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
> --
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> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
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Re: Dilemma

[Mark C]

Sweet... I once had one of those Cannonet rangefinders and loved it.

Mark

On 7/29/2021 10:52 AM, coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote:

I've picked up two treasures this week.

  


https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/

  


Do I (would you)

Sell both,

Keep both, or

Keep just 1?

  


Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
better glass, but that much better?

The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
just a viewfinder.

Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
The Rollei battery holder is a pain.

  





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Re: Dilemma

[P. J. Alling]

I'd keep them both, but then I'm kinda strange that way.

On 7/29/2021 10:52 AM, coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote:

I've picked up two treasures this week.

  


https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/

  


Do I (would you)

Sell both,

Keep both, or

Keep just 1?

  


Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
better glass, but that much better?

The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
just a viewfinder.

Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
The Rollei battery holder is a pain.

  





--
America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: Dilemma

[Daniel J. Matyola]

That little Rollei sure is cute, and easy to carry!

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*




Virus-free.
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 10:52 AM  wrote:

> I've picked up two treasures this week.
>
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/
>
>
>
> Do I (would you)
>
> Sell both,
>
> Keep both, or
>
> Keep just 1?
>
>
>
> Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
> better glass, but that much better?
>
> The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
> just a viewfinder.
>
> Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
> The Rollei battery holder is a pain.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
> --
> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
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Dilemma

[collinb]

I've picked up two treasures this week. 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/101533246@N02/51343774484/

 

Do I (would you)

Sell both,

Keep both, or

Keep just 1?

 

Both will produce excellent results. The Rollei will certainly have the
better glass, but that much better?

The Canon, while larger, is much easier to use. And it's a rangefinder, not
just a viewfinder.

Both will require a mercury battery adaptation. Probably just a Wein cell.
The Rollei battery holder is a pain.

 



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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Nice comment, Malcolm.
Thanks much!
J
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2016, at 3:40 AM, Malcolm Smith  wrote:
> 
> Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
> 
> Comments most welcome!
> 
> J
> 
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
> 
> I love the depth of field of this shot.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> 
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RE: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Malcolm Smith]

Jack Davis wrote:

Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!

J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

I love the depth of field of this shot.

Malcolm


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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Exactly as I intended, Ann.

J

- Original Message -
From: "ann sanfedele" <ann...@nyc.rr.com>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" <pdml@pdml.net>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 7:34:53 PM
Subject: Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

That reads to me that she really is sizing them up.., trying to decide 
who the lucky duck is , reading it as Jack is here.

nicely timed shutter release :-) fun!

ann


On 10/14/2016 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
> Sadly sex among ducks is the closest thing to rape in avian world.  
> Her dilemma is how do I get away /now/ !
>
> On 10/14/2016 2:18 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>> No, I'm saying she can't make up her
>> mind which Drake to chose.
>> I know, it's a bit of a reach. :)
>>
>> J
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Are you saying it's chicken?
>>>
>>> Alan C
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Jack Davis
>>> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 6:48 PM
>>> To: PDML
>>> Subject: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma
>>>
>>>
>>> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
>>>
>>> Comments most welcome!
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above 
>>> and follow the directions.
>>>
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>
>


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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[ann sanfedele]

That reads to me that she really is sizing them up.., trying to decide 
who the lucky duck is , reading it as Jack is here.


nicely timed shutter release :-) fun!

ann


On 10/14/2016 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
Sadly sex among ducks is the closest thing to rape in avian world.  
Her dilemma is how do I get away /now/ !


On 10/14/2016 2:18 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

No, I'm saying she can't make up her
mind which Drake to chose.
I know, it's a bit of a reach. :)

J

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:

Are you saying it's chicken?

Alan C

-Original Message- From: Jack Davis
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 6:48 PM
To: PDML
Subject: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma


Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!

J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Hi, Igor,

When I first took a look at this image, the clarity inspired me to pull it up 
by probably 30%.
Was shot off-hand with the 55-300 at about 60ft(?)
Seeing that the enlargement seemed to hold up well, I proceeded to convert it 
to a jpg for posting.
Actually, I felt the Hen's speckled breast detail was especially detailed. 
Maybe I was a bit too
taken with the image in general ans should have stuck with the native image.

Thanks, again, for your comments!

J

- Original Message -
From: "Igor PDML-StR" <pdml...@komkon.org>
To: "PDML" <PDML@pdml.net>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:21:19 PM
Subject: Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma


Jack,

No, I meant the two front ducks (the 3rd one is also, but that's 
understandable, it's slightly outside of DOF.

I think I found a partial problem. For some reason,
Firefox shows the image at a slightly large size then what it is in 
reality. So, it is dynamically upscaling it. And that is likely resulting 
in the apparent softness. It is not happening in other browsers.
(I just realized, - my browser had some small zoom value, probably 110%.)

However, I still see that some parts of the two front ducks are not very 
sharp. E.g. the breast of the brown one is sort of blurred.
I am not sure if it is a motion blur, the resolution limitation of the 
lens, or a very narrow DoF. It might be a combination of several factors.
What was the focal length and the aperture for this shot?

It's a nice catch in any case!

Igor




  Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 11:46:14 -0700 wrote:

Reply#2: Yes, the grass in the foreground and ducks and grasses in the
background are soft, but the
plain of the primary subjects is
really all that mattered to me in
this "off hand" casual catch.
Is that what you're seeing?
Thanks, Igor!
J


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Igor PDML-StR <pdml...@komkon.org> wrote:
> 
>
> Jack,
>
> It's a nice catch and composition.
>
> I don't know if it is my browser or what, but it looks softish.
> I'd try to sharpen it a bit (or at least to apply "unsharp" filter or
> it's cousin "Presence/Clariry" in LR.
>
> BTW, the caption is misspelled. :)
>
> Igor
>
>
> Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:21 -0700 wrote:
>
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
>
> Comments most welcome!
>
>
> J
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
>
>

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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Igor PDML-StR]

Jack,

No, I meant the two front ducks (the 3rd one is also, but that's 
understandable, it's slightly outside of DOF.


I think I found a partial problem. For some reason,
Firefox shows the image at a slightly large size then what it is in 
reality. So, it is dynamically upscaling it. And that is likely resulting 
in the apparent softness. It is not happening in other browsers.

(I just realized, - my browser had some small zoom value, probably 110%.)

However, I still see that some parts of the two front ducks are not very 
sharp. E.g. the breast of the brown one is sort of blurred.
I am not sure if it is a motion blur, the resolution limitation of the 
lens, or a very narrow DoF. It might be a combination of several factors.

What was the focal length and the aperture for this shot?

It's a nice catch in any case!

Igor




 Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 11:46:14 -0700 wrote:

Reply#2: Yes, the grass in the foreground and ducks and grasses in the
background are soft, but the
plain of the primary subjects is
really all that mattered to me in
this "off hand" casual catch.
Is that what you're seeing?
Thanks, Igor!
J


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:


Jack,

It's a nice catch and composition.

I don't know if it is my browser or what, but it looks softish.
I'd try to sharpen it a bit (or at least to apply "unsharp" filter or
it's cousin "Presence/Clariry" in LR.

BTW, the caption is misspelled. :)

Igor


Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:21 -0700 wrote:

Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!


J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109




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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[P.J. Alling]

Sadly sex among ducks is the closest thing to rape in avian world.  Her 
dilemma is how do I get away /now/ !


On 10/14/2016 2:18 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

No, I'm saying she can't make up her
mind which Drake to chose.
I know, it's a bit of a reach. :)

J

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:

Are you saying it's chicken?

Alan C

-Original Message- From: Jack Davis
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 6:48 PM
To: PDML
Subject: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma


Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!

J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Reply#2: Yes, the grass in the foreground and ducks and grasses in the 
background are soft, but the
plain of the primary subjects is
really all that mattered to me in
this "off hand" casual catch.
Is that what you're seeing?
Thanks, Igor!
J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jack,
> 
> It's a nice catch and composition.
> 
> I don't know if it is my browser or what, but it looks softish.
> I'd try to sharpen it a bit (or at least to apply "unsharp" filter or
> it's cousin "Presence/Clariry" in LR.
> 
> BTW, the caption is misspelled. :)
> 
> Igor
> 
> 
> Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:21 -0700 wrote:
> 
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
> 
> Comments most welcome!
> 
> 
> J
> 
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
> 
> 
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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma,

[Jack Davis]

It may be your browser, Igor.(?)
The image, as usual, looked
faintly dark when I checked "sent."
However I felt it to be razor sharp.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jack,
> 
> It's a nice catch and composition.
> 
> I don't know if it is my browser or what, but it looks softish.
> I'd try to sharpen it a bit (or at least to apply "unsharp" filter or
> it's cousin "Presence/Clariry" in LR.
> 
> BTW, the caption is misspelled. :)
> 
> Igor
> 
> 
> Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:21 -0700 wrote:
> 
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
> 
> Comments most welcome!
> 
> 
> J
> 
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
> 
> 
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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Well, ether way, she'll die happy. 8-))
J
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:14 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
> Have you seen Mallards mating?  She's going to get both of them - and any 
> others
> in the vicinity as well.  If she's lucky, she'll survive.
> 
>> On 14 October 2016 at 17:48 Jack Davis  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
>> 
>> Comments most welcome!
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
> 
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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

No, I'm saying she can't make up her
mind which Drake to chose.
I know, it's a bit of a reach. :)

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
> 
> Are you saying it's chicken?
> 
> Alan C
> 
> -Original Message- From: Jack Davis
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 6:48 PM
> To: PDML
> Subject: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma
> 
> 
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
> 
> Comments most welcome!
> 
> J
> 
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109
> 
> -- 
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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[mike wilson]

Have you seen Mallards mating?  She's going to get both of them - and any others
in the vicinity as well.  If she's lucky, she'll survive.

> On 14 October 2016 at 17:48 Jack Davis  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.
> 
> Comments most welcome!
> 
> J
> 
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Alan C]

Are you saying it's chicken?

Alan C

-Original Message- 
From: Jack Davis

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 6:48 PM
To: PDML
Subject: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma


Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!

J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

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Re: Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Igor PDML-StR]

Jack,

It's a nice catch and composition.

I don't know if it is my browser or what, but it looks softish.
I'd try to sharpen it a bit (or at least to apply "unsharp" filter or
it's cousin "Presence/Clariry" in LR.

BTW, the caption is misspelled. :)

Igor


Jack Davis Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:21 -0700 wrote:

Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!


J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109


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Peso-Mallard Hen's Dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Shot a few days ago at Colusa Ntl Refuge.

Comments most welcome!

J

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1109

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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Paul]

I think there must have been a third guy in there somewhere.

-p

On 7/8/2015 2:11 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



Paul wrote:

My God!!! We must have been married to the same woman. :)


But which one of you did she run off with?



-p

On 7/6/2015 11:38 AM, John wrote:

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.









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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Larry Colen]

Paul wrote:

My God!!! We must have been married to the same woman. :)


But which one of you did she run off with?



-p

On 7/6/2015 11:38 AM, John wrote:

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.







--
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)

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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[John]

I don't think he would have had the nerve.

When she left, she told me all about him. I had a little talk with him
 told him he could have her, but if they tried to take anything from my
house, I'd take it back out of his ass.

On 7/6/2015 4:06 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

Did he call and ask you to take her back?  I have a friend who actually
had that happen.

On 7/6/2015 12:38 PM, John wrote:

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.








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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Paul]

My God!!!  We must have been married to the same woman.  :)

-p

On 7/6/2015 11:38 AM, John wrote:

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.





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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Jack Davis]

Good'no Darren! :o)

J

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Reminds me of the old joke about the State Patrolman who pulled over
 an older gentleman for traveling at a high rate of speed. When he
 approached the man the Patrolman said, I'll make you a deal. If you
 give me an excuse that I've never heard before, I'll let you off with
 a warning. The driver said, 5 years ago, my wife ran off with a State
 Patrolman. I was afraid that it was you and you were going to give her
 back. The Patrolman took off his sunglasses and said, Slow it down
 and have a nice day, sir. and walked back to his car.
 
 On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:06 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Did he call and ask you to take her back?  I have a friend who actually had
 that happen.
 
 On 7/6/2015 12:38 PM, John wrote:
 
 My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
 marriage was when she ran off with another man.
 
 On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:
 
 Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!
 
 
 -Original Message-
 
 From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
 Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma
 
 I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
 permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
 EX while we were still married.
 
 Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
 even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
 motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.
 
 
 --
 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
 immortality through not dying.
 -- Woody Allen
 
 
 
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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Darren Addy]

Reminds me of the old joke about the State Patrolman who pulled over
an older gentleman for traveling at a high rate of speed. When he
approached the man the Patrolman said, I'll make you a deal. If you
give me an excuse that I've never heard before, I'll let you off with
a warning. The driver said, 5 years ago, my wife ran off with a State
Patrolman. I was afraid that it was you and you were going to give her
back. The Patrolman took off his sunglasses and said, Slow it down
and have a nice day, sir. and walked back to his car.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:06 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
 Did he call and ask you to take her back?  I have a friend who actually had
 that happen.

 On 7/6/2015 12:38 PM, John wrote:

 My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
 marriage was when she ran off with another man.

 On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

 Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


 -Original Message-

 From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
 Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

 I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
 permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
 EX while we were still married.

 Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
 even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
 motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.




 --
 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
 immortality through not dying.
 -- Woody Allen



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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[P.J. Alling]

Did he call and ask you to take her back?  I have a friend who actually 
had that happen.


On 7/6/2015 12:38 PM, John wrote:

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.






--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[John]

My EX was not the forgiving kind. The best thing that happened in our
marriage was when she ran off with another man.

On 7/6/2015 10:14 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-

From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.



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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Ken Waller]

Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness!


-Original Message-
From: John sesso...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.

On 6/28/2015 10:44 PM, Knarf wrote:
 Wise words, Morris (nice to see you de-lurk, however briefly).

 As I said, I did it for an amplifier once. Not just an amp, a Creek
 CAS 4040. A little jewel of an amp.

 I won't say it wasn't worth it (one hell of an amp, after all), but
 in retrospect there were better ways to obtain it.
 LOL.

 Cheers,

 frank

 On 28 June, 2015 10:30:01 PM EDT, Morris Galloway 
 morris-gallo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 How much marital capitol?  As a lurker who occasionally takes divorce
 cases, and often ends up making the Husband Pay me to get Her a
 divorce... Are You Kidding?
 Over a Camera Lens?  Ask for it for Late Father's Day -- or any other
 holiday, but don't, Don't, rile up the dinner table!  G. (Back to
 Lurking.)


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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Jostein Øksne]

There's not enough information here. 
The guy has already shelled out for a K-3 and a Sigma lens. We don't get to 
know how much that strained the marital capital. For all we know he could be 
just looking for an excuse to go one step too far for his budget on his 
shopping crusade, hoping that a forum of photography nuts will cheer him on.

The DA 40 isn't all that rare. There will be more opportunities down the road. 

Jostein


Den 29. juni 2015 01.58.05 CEST, skrev Stanley Halpin 
s...@stans-photography.info:
I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking
but shy?

Anyway, he is asking the following:

 Need some advice from the group. 
 You know, for a friend. 
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from
your home is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one.
The bigger one. 
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M
40mm. He has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably
priced used Sigma 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related
things is nearly zero. So this year is a large anomaly already. 
 
 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on
such a purchase?

Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back
to him…

stan

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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[John]

On 6/28/2015 7:58 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking
but shy?

Anyway, he is asking the following:


Need some advice from the group. You know, for a friend. Say you
noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your
home is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The
bigger one. Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro
limited and a M 40mm. He has already this year purchased a K3 and a
very reasonably priced used Sigma 17-50 2.8. His normal annual
budget for photo related things is nearly zero. So this year is a
large anomaly already.

How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on
such a purchase?


Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back
to him…

stan



You don't need to ask us, you need to ask *HER* ... or anyway, your 
friend does.


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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[John]

I was going to post some snark about having to get your wife's
permission to buy stuff, until I got to thinking about life with my
EX while we were still married.

Not only did I not buy anything for myself during that time, I wasn't
even allowed to play with the toys I already owned. Had to sell my
motorcycle  didn't play guitar for more than 5 years.

On 6/28/2015 10:44 PM, Knarf wrote:

Wise words, Morris (nice to see you de-lurk, however briefly).

As I said, I did it for an amplifier once. Not just an amp, a Creek
CAS 4040. A little jewel of an amp.

I won't say it wasn't worth it (one hell of an amp, after all), but
in retrospect there were better ways to obtain it.
LOL.

Cheers,

frank

On 28 June, 2015 10:30:01 PM EDT, Morris Galloway 
morris-gallo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

How much marital capitol?  As a lurker who occasionally takes divorce
cases, and often ends up making the Husband Pay me to get Her a
divorce... Are You Kidding?
Over a Camera Lens?  Ask for it for Late Father's Day -- or any other
holiday, but don't, Don't, rile up the dinner table!  G. (Back to
Lurking.)




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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Stanley Halpin]

Thanks all for your input. On balance, your suggestions mirror my own: I told 
him that I had had the DA40 and had sold it, partially because its FOV was 
redundant with several others, and partially because I didn’t find it all that 
special. But for $100, if it were a 10 minute drive rather than a 2 hour drive 
I would be severely tempted.

I’ll pass a redacted compendium of your suggestions on to the one who is 
tempted.

stan
 On Jun 29, 2015, at 12:28 PM, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 You don't need to ask us, you need to ask *HER* ... or anyway, your friend 
 does.


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Lens purchase dilemma

[Stanley Halpin]

I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking but shy?

Anyway, he is asking the following:

 Need some advice from the group. 
 You know, for a friend. 
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your home 
 is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The bigger one. 
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M 40mm. He 
 has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably priced used Sigma 
 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related things is nearly zero. 
 So this year is a large anomaly already. 
 
 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on such a 
 purchase?

Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back to him…

stan
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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Darren Addy]

Frankly, give the lenses you mentioned, the *need* for the DA40 is
virtually nil. On the other hand, if he/she finds himself using the
40mm focal length a lot and wishing for AF, and thinks the prime is
going to perform better than the Sigma at 40mm, then $100 for the
Limited is probably a good deal. I'd buy it just to flip it at $100.


On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Stanley Halpin
s...@stans-photography.info wrote:
 I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking but shy?

 Anyway, he is asking the following:

 Need some advice from the group.
 You know, for a friend.
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your home 
 is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The bigger one.
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M 40mm. He 
 has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably priced used Sigma 
 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related things is nearly zero. 
 So this year is a large anomaly already.

 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on such a 
 purchase?

 Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back to him…

 stan
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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[P.J. Alling]

The M 40 and the DA 40 are supposed to be identical optically so if he's 
happy with the M 40's IQ it comes down to is the convenience of auto 
exposure and auto focus worth spending his marital capitol.  I don't 
have to worry about that, but I do have an M 40 f2.8 and an FA 43mm 
f1.9, and if I hadn't gotten the M as a lens cap on a classic film 
camera body I wanted, quite some time ago, I wouldn't bother.


That said, $100 for the DA 40mm f2.8 Limited is a pretty good price.

On 6/28/2015 7:58 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking but shy?

Anyway, he is asking the following:


Need some advice from the group.
You know, for a friend.
Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your home is selling a 
DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The bigger one.
Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M 40mm. He 
has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably priced used Sigma 17-50 2.8. 
His normal annual budget for photo related things is nearly zero. So this year is a large 
anomaly already.

How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on such a 
purchase?

Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back to him…

stan



--
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immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Yolanda Rowe]

For the autofocus capability at that price, I'd spend the marital
capital. On the other hand, I have to confess that I've been in
trouble before due to LBA.

Add it to the collection and say that it followed you home...

Cheers!

Yonnie

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 7:11 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
 The M 40 and the DA 40 are supposed to be identical optically so if he's
 happy with the M 40's IQ it comes down to is the convenience of auto
 exposure and auto focus worth spending his marital capitol.  I don't have to
 worry about that, but I do have an M 40 f2.8 and an FA 43mm f1.9, and if I
 hadn't gotten the M as a lens cap on a classic film camera body I wanted,
 quite some time ago, I wouldn't bother.

 That said, $100 for the DA 40mm f2.8 Limited is a pretty good price.

 On 6/28/2015 7:58 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

 I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking but
 shy?

 Anyway, he is asking the following:

 Need some advice from the group.
 You know, for a friend.
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your
 home is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The bigger
 one.
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M 40mm.
 He has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably priced used
 Sigma 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related things is nearly
 zero. So this year is a large anomaly already.

 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on such
 a purchase?

 Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back to
 him…

 stan



 --
 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
 immortality through not dying.
 -- Woody Allen



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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Knarf]

I tried that with a stereo integrated amplifier once.

Didn't work...

Cheers,

frank

On 28 June, 2015 9:07:59 PM EDT, Yolanda Rowe ypr...@gmail.com wrote:
For the autofocus capability at that price, I'd spend the marital
capital. On the other hand, I have to confess that I've been in
trouble before due to LBA.

Add it to the collection and say that it followed you home...

Cheers!

Yonnie

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 7:11 PM, P.J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
 The M 40 and the DA 40 are supposed to be identical optically so if
he's
 happy with the M 40's IQ it comes down to is the convenience of auto
 exposure and auto focus worth spending his marital capitol.  I don't
have to
 worry about that, but I do have an M 40 f2.8 and an FA 43mm f1.9, and
if I
 hadn't gotten the M as a lens cap on a classic film camera body I
wanted,
 quite some time ago, I wouldn't bother.

 That said, $100 for the DA 40mm f2.8 Limited is a pretty good price.

 On 6/28/2015 7:58 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

 I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still
lurking but
 shy?

 Anyway, he is asking the following:

 Need some advice from the group.
 You know, for a friend.
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from
your
 home is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The
bigger
 one.
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M
40mm.
 He has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably
priced used
 Sigma 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related things
is nearly
 zero. So this year is a large anomaly already.

 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on
such
 a purchase?

 Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group
back to
 him…

 stan



 --
 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to
achieve
 immortality through not dying.
 -- Woody Allen



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 PDML@pdml.net
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and
 follow the directions.

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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Larry Colen]

Knarf wrote:

I tried that with a stereo integrated amplifier once.

Didn't work...


If it was as nice as my old NAD 3020, then it was probably worth it.

I quite like my DA40 ltd.  I really ought to use it for more than just a 
body cap more often.



--
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)

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Lens Purchase dilemma

[Morris Galloway]

How much marital capitol?  As a lurker who occasionally takes divorce 
cases, and often ends up making the Husband Pay me to get Her a 
divorce... Are You Kidding?
Over a Camera Lens?  Ask for it for Late Father's Day -- or any other 
holiday, but don't, Don't, rile up the dinner table!  G. (Back to Lurking.)




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Re: Lens Purchase dilemma

[Knarf]

Wise words, Morris (nice to see you de-lurk, however briefly).

As I said, I did it for an amplifier once. Not just an amp, a Creek CAS 4040. A 
little jewel of an amp.

I won't say it wasn't worth it (one hell of an amp, after all), but in 
retrospect there were better ways to obtain it.

LOL.

Cheers,

frank

On 28 June, 2015 10:30:01 PM EDT, Morris Galloway 
morris-gallo...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
How much marital capitol?  As a lurker who occasionally takes divorce 
cases, and often ends up making the Husband Pay me to get Her a 
divorce... Are You Kidding?
Over a Camera Lens?  Ask for it for Late Father's Day -- or any other 
holiday, but don't, Don't, rile up the dinner table!  G. (Back to
Lurking.)

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Lens purchase dilemma

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I had both lenses and didn't like the DA40 very much. 

Marital capital? over a $100 lens … 
On the other hand, if you have a partner who is so tight about YOUR enjoyment 
budget, and you can actually buy the thing without compromising health, home, 
food, etc, … blow the wad and find a better way to live. 

G

 On Jun 28, 2015, at 4:58 PM, Stanley Halpin s...@stans-photography.info 
 wrote:
 
 I know this guy, Pentax user, used to be on PDML. Maybe still lurking but shy?
 
 Anyway, he is asking the following:
 
 Need some advice from the group. 
 You know, for a friend. 
 Say you noticed someone that's probably about two hours drive from your home 
 is selling a DA 40mm 2.8 for $100. Not the teeny tiny one. The bigger one. 
 Consider that my friend currently owns a 35 macro limited and a M 40mm. He 
 has already this year purchased a K3 and a very reasonably priced used Sigma 
 17-50 2.8. His normal annual budget for photo related things is nearly zero. 
 So this year is a large anomaly already. 
 
 How much marital capitol would you think is appropriate to spend on such a 
 purchase?
 
 Any suggestions? I will pass the accumulated wisdom of the group back to him…


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Bob W]

 
 There is no way for me to contact them from outside the system to even tell 
 them that I do not have access.


It's not just the army. I still get occasional sms messages telling me the 
system is down and wanting me to fix it at the place I was made redundant from 
3.5 years ago. Not so long ago one of the help desk guys phoned me to demand 
why I hadn't responded and why wasn't I fixing a SEV1. I explained to him, but 
it seems I am stuck on their support rota forever.

B

 On 1 Dec 2013, at 06:17, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 I've been having my own problems with the Army's IT system.
 
 Every month since I retired, I get one or more emails from the Army lecturing 
 me for my failure to keep my profile up to date  change my password, thereby 
 jeopardizing the security of the entire free world.
 
 Unfortunately, I do not have access to a CAC card reader attached to a secure 
 Army computer on a .MIL network. And, since retirees are not issued a CAC ID 
 card, even if I had physical access to the computer I still couldn't change 
 my password or update my profile.
 
 There is no way for me to contact them from outside the system to even tell 
 them that I do not have access.
 
 Not just Catch-22, but Catch-22 squared.
 
 I'm not anti-Mac, I just prefer to build my own  I can't really do that with 
 a Mac.
 
 

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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Jan van Wijk]

Hi Stan,

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 16:14:55 -0500 Stan Halpin wrote:


And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough, then do I 
need a desktop at all? 

Can't really comment on your choice of desktop, no experience there.

But I went from a 24 iMac that was 6 years old, to a 15 MacBook Pro now, 16Gb 
memory en 500Gb SSD disk,
and coupled that to a Thunderbold display.

The display is certainly good enough for me!

The one drawback compared to the (old) iMac is that screen shows more 
reflections from windows, 
but I can live with that.

Otherwise that combo woks great!

And being a MacBook has the added advantage of being portable when needed of 
course :)

Regards, JvW


--
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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2013, John wrote:

 I'm not anti-Mac, I just prefer to build my own  I can't really do
 that with a Mac.

Then you should be using Linux/*BSD.  If you truly need access to Windoze
software, you can do that with either Wine or a VM with a real licensed
copy of Windoze.
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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Stan, 

I use a Thunderbolt Display 27 interchangeably with MacBook Air 13 (2011 
generation), MacBook Pro 13 (2013 generation), and Mac mini. It's an excellent 
display, IMO slightly better than the one in the 2011 iMac 27 I have at the 
office. The two laptops above belong to the office too, the mini is my personal 
system (2.6Ghz quad core, 16G RAM, 1T internal drive, linked to a five disk 
array for storage and backup) which I do all my image processing with. It works 
great. 

A new Mac Pro would be neat and higher performance, but it is FAR more 
expensive and I'm not convinced I need all that processing power as yet. This 
system seems to handle everything I'm throwing at it (from 5Mpixel Olympus E-1 
raw files to 140 Mpixel raw file film scans from the Nikon Coolscan 9000ED) 
with more than adequate performance. And when I want a new cpu, even if I want 
to update to the Mac Pro, it's just a matter of plugging it in and cloning the 
contents of the mini onto it, which will reduce my system cost. 

I doubt Apple will switch to a different display connection protocol any time 
in the near future. Thunderbolt has at least the next half-dozen years 
comfortably in hand with respect to performance, I suspect. ;-)

G


On Nov 30, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote:

 My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles with large 
 image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new computer - that is a 
 given. My dilemma is about what to buy.
 
 Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives than 
 those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience with MS-DOS and 
 Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100% certain that I have zero 
 interest in going that route. And within the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, 
 tricked out and paired with the 27 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I 
 would get in an iMac all-in-one for about the same price. With some sacrifice 
 in expansion ports with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but 
 pushed well to the side while I look at other options.
 
 Specifically, short version: 
   a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac Pro + display.
   b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display vs. other good 
 display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color gamut.
 
 WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog comments and 
 other material (including this interesting piece from EIZO: 
 http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ ) and I am 
 not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If web images and 
 printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a better image on my 
 desktop isn't really going to do anything except to further increase the load 
 on my credit card.
 
 And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough, then do I 
 need a desktop at all? 
 
 A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB graphic 
 memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be about $2900. 
 
 The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000, including 
 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added cost of memory 
 upgrades, cables, etc.
 
 So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option to go for 
 a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible benefits from the (to me) 
 inscrutable differences in processor and GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? 
 Should I save some money on the computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?
 
 
 I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.
 
 stan 


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Ken Waller]

It screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.


Not even a K-3?

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma



The computer I built last year is adequate for my needs at this time. It
screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.

All I'm really saying is that if someone did have an interest in
exploring Windoze as an alternative, Windoze 8 isn't the version to do
it with.


On 11/30/2013 10:25 PM, John Mullan wrote:

If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class
machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops
aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.

jm


-Original Message- From: John
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan



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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John Francis]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:25:24PM -0500, John Mullan wrote:
 If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class
 machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar
 desktops aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class
 machine.
 
 jm

Yep.  This is being written on an EliteBook 8740w (17.3 1920x1200);
it's roughly comparable to a MacBook Pro (quad i7 processors, memory
up to either 16GB or 32GB, depending on who you ask). Windows 7 Pro.

My previous two machines were both HP laptops (one XP/32, one XP/64),
and I got over 10 years of use out of them. The weak point, in each
case, was the display.

But then, what do I know?  I've also got a house full of Sony A/V kit,
some of which is over 20 years old; the only thing which is coming to
the end of its life is the projection TV, and that's got to be around
10 years old.  It could be fixed, but a new flat screen would almost
certainly cost less, and offer me more (such as HDMI, for one thing).


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John]

I could, but I only build 'em so I can use 'em and all my applications
run on windoze, so why build in another, unnecessary layer of
frustration between me and the applications?

On 12/1/2013 9:37 AM, Aahz Maruch wrote:

On Sun, Dec 01, 2013, John wrote:


I'm not anti-Mac, I just prefer to build my own  I can't really do
that with a Mac.


Then you should be using Linux/*BSD.  If you truly need access to Windoze
software, you can do that with either Wine or a VM with a real licensed
copy of Windoze.



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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John]

On 12/1/2013 5:11 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

It screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going
to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.


Not even a K-3?



K-3, is that Ricoh's new Full-Frame DSLR in Pentax K mount?


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma



The computer I built last year is adequate for my needs at this time. It
screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.

All I'm really saying is that if someone did have an interest in
exploring Windoze as an alternative, Windoze 8 isn't the version to do
it with.


On 11/30/2013 10:25 PM, John Mullan wrote:

If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class
machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops
aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.

jm


-Original Message- From: John
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan





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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Ken Waller]

K-3, is that Ricoh's new Full-Frame DSLR in Pentax K mount?


At 24mp it might as well be - especially if you've been shooting with a K10D 
or K29D.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma



On 12/1/2013 5:11 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

It screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going
to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.


Not even a K-3?



K-3, is that Ricoh's new Full-Frame DSLR in Pentax K mount?


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma



The computer I built last year is adequate for my needs at this time. It
screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.

All I'm really saying is that if someone did have an interest in
exploring Windoze as an alternative, Windoze 8 isn't the version to do
it with.


On 11/30/2013 10:25 PM, John Mullan wrote:

If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class
machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops
aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.

jm


-Original Message- From: John
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't 
really

look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan



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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[David Mann]

On Dec 1, 2013, at 9:47 pm, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:

 It's not just the army. I still get occasional sms messages telling me the 
 system is down and wanting me to fix it at the place I was made redundant 
 from 3.5 years ago. Not so long ago one of the help desk guys phoned me to 
 demand why I hadn't responded and why wasn't I fixing a SEV1. I explained to 
 him, but it seems I am stuck on their support rota forever.

Just call them when you get the next email and inform them of your hourly 
contract rate ;)

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[steve harley]

on 2013-11-30 20:48 Stan Halpin wrote

Larry, Steve - thanks for your comments. In a way they are not very helpful 
because I am looking for compelling reasons why I should go with the Mac Pro 
and not the Mini or iMac.


well, that comes down to what's compelling for you; if you are doing a mountain 
of work, and the machine will make a difference, go for it; the 10x7 cylinder 
does seem very alluring, though (i keep thinking i could use one, then coming 
back down to earth)




if you are using mainly Lightroom, then those super-GPUs won't make much 
difference to your photo work


This is something I have wondered about. I have seen a few references that show 
a rapidly diminishing gain in LR performance as one moves from 2 to 4 to 6 to 
8-core processors, and I figured that LR or any other current software would be 
unable to fully take advantage of any new CPU or GPU. I have been looking at 
the Perfect Photo Suite to use as an adjunct to LR, and their set-up 
instructions go into modifications to settings based on available cache memory 
on the GPU.  And so I was thinking just maybe this time bigger would be better, 
not only for that program but also for LR...


you are mixing different questions here:

1) does Lightroom benefit from GPU on Mac?

--  no (though the basic OS support of any app does benefit)


2) does Lightroom benefit from multiple CPU cores on Mac?

--  i can't find a solid reference on this, but it sounds like your own 
research found that any benefit is limited



3) does other software benefit from these?

--  yes, Aperture gets much benefit from the GPU, and is well equipped to 
utilize multiple cores; some operations of Photoshop benefit as well; many 
video-editing tools (video being the primary market for the Mac Pro) are very 
strongly dependent on GPU performance



and i'll add 4) will these matter more to LR in the future?

--  Adobe has had several development cycles to add GPU acceleration to 
Lightroom, and hasn't, so i can only guess it's not a priority; by the time it 
does make a difference, any machine from today will have been superseded




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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

 On Dec 1, 2013, at 8:29 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:
 
 2) does Lightroom benefit from multiple CPU cores on Mac?
 
 --  i can't find a solid reference on this, but it sounds like your own 
 research found that any benefit is limited

Actually, LR does benefit from multiple CPU cores as it is a fully threaded 
application, but it takes some manual effort and changes in workflow to get the 
most from it.  For instance, if you select 1000 raw files and tell LR to export 
them, it will operate mostly serially, making poor use of the multiple core 
system and it's threading. But if you instead select four batches of 250 images 
and tell LR to export each batch concurrently (say export on each batch without 
waiting for the previous one to complete), you'll see it use all the cores and 
get the job done in typically half the time, plus or minus. Same goes for other 
concurrent operations. 

I expect Adobe will automate this more as time goes on. 

G
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RE: Computer purchase dilemma

[John Coyle]

I've always liked HP computer gear - started serious life with an HP86A, and an 
HP 4-pen plotter,
teamed with an Epson HQ1500 (?) daisy-wheel printer, which all lasted well past 
their obsolescence
date.  This email is being written on a two-year old Z200 workstation running 
an i5 CPU, and if I
print I print to either an HP1020 Laserjet  bought 4/2007 or an HP 4510 Inkjet, 
bought 4/2009 - so
I'm pretty satisfied with HP gear.  My displays are both Dell, firstly because 
the workstation came
without a display and secondly because I could pick up a used monitor for $30 
when the previous one
died.


John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia



-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Francis
Sent: Monday, 2 December 2013 10:21 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:25:24PM -0500, John Mullan wrote:
 If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class 
 machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops 
 aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.
 
 jm

Yep.  This is being written on an EliteBook 8740w (17.3 1920x1200); it's 
roughly comparable to a
MacBook Pro (quad i7 processors, memory up to either 16GB or 32GB, depending on 
who you ask).
Windows 7 Pro.

My previous two machines were both HP laptops (one XP/32, one XP/64), and I got 
over 10 years of use
out of them. The weak point, in each case, was the display.

But then, what do I know?  I've also got a house full of Sony A/V kit, some of 
which is over 20
years old; the only thing which is coming to the end of its life is the 
projection TV, and that's
got to be around
10 years old.  It could be fixed, but a new flat screen would almost certainly 
cost less, and offer
me more (such as HDMI, for one thing).


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Computer purchase dilemma

[Stan Halpin]

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles with large 
image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new computer - that is a 
given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives than those 
discussed below. However, I have had enough experience with MS-DOS and Windows 
systems over the last few decades to be 100% certain that I have zero interest 
in going that route. And within the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and 
paired with the 27 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac 
all-in-one for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports 
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to the side 
while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: 
a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac Pro + display.
b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display vs. other good 
display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog comments and 
other material (including this interesting piece from EIZO: 
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ ) and I am 
not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If web images and 
printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a better image on my desktop 
isn't really going to do anything except to further increase the load on my 
credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough, then do I 
need a desktop at all? 

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB graphic 
memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be about $2900. 

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000, including 2 
AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added cost of memory 
upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option to go for a 
wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible benefits from the (to me) 
inscrutable differences in processor and GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? 
Should I save some money on the computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan 



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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013, Stan Halpin wrote:

 Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
 than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
 with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
 certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
 the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
 for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports with
 the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to the
 side while I look at other options.

The question is how likely you are to keep that Thunderbolt display next
time you upgrade.  If yes, the Mac Mini looks better.  My primary went
that route last time and is quite happy with the performance; zie really
hates the idea of throwing out a perfectly good monitor every time the
computer needs an upgrade.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  *   *   *
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Larry Colen]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 04:14:55PM -0500, Stan Halpin wrote:
 My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles with large 
 image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new computer - that is a 
 given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

I had exactly the same dilemma a few months ago.


 
 Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives than 
 those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience with MS-DOS and 
 Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100% certain that I have zero 
 interest in going that route. And within the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, 
 tricked out and paired with the 27 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I 
 would get in an iMac all-in-one for about the same price. With some sacrifice 
 in expansion ports with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but 
 pushed well to the side while I look at other options.

I went with a mini and a 27 thunderbolt display.  I have a second, non-tbolt 
display set
up in vertical orientation.  I'd eventually like to upgrade it from 22 to 27.

I recently posted this to facebook, but these are the results of a quick and 
dirty
benchmark I did last week:
Due to a bit of recent good fortune, I effectively found myself with a $500 
credit at the apple store. I ended up with a new MBP that I'll use for 
processing photos when on road trips.

Replacing the internal hard drive on my MacBook 3.1 with a 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo 
and 6GB of memory with the crucial SSD made a huge difference in lightroom 
performance.
Since this is as easy of a place to write down notes as any, while I'm running 
the test:
13inch mid 2012 Macbook pro, 2.5 GHz I5 processor 16GB memory
Benchmarking Lightroom on the new MBP,
Both catalog and files copied to internal 5400RPM drive, no backup copies of 
raw files:
Copying 150 files off card 3:10
Rendering 1:1 previews 13:03 (~10minutes)
Same setup to 480GB crucial SSD in a Sabrent external USB3 drive case
Copying same 150 files 2:08
rendering 1:1 previews 11:39 (~9:30)
Same setup using a $70 buffulo 1TB external drive:
copying 2:35
rendering 1:1 12:07 (~9:30)

Note that this laptop has been maxed out on memory (apple says 8G is max, but 
other sites have done research and found that It'll take 16G), and that the 
files are all freshly copied, so there is no file fragmentation, so the zero 
latency of the SSD makes less of an impact.

I suspect that the reason that the internal drive was the slowest is because it 
is only 5400 RPM. USB 3 makes a huge difference over my old systems with USB 2 
and firewire external drives.



 
 Specifically, short version: 
   a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac Pro + display.
   b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display vs. other good 
 display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color gamut.
-- snippo --
 
 
 I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.
 
 stan 

My core system is a mac mini, with a 1TB hybrid drive.  Maxed out with 
16GB of crucial memory from BH (it's cheaper to throw away 4GB of memory
from apple and upgrade yourself, than to buy more memory from Apple).
I have an external USB3 case with two 3TB drives in it.

I suspect that when my applecare runs out, I will replace the hybrid drive
with a 1TB SSD and a 2TB spinny disk.

If I was making my living with the system, I might be able to justify the
added performance from going to a desktop system, but I think that what I
have hits the price performance sweet spot.

As an aside, if you know someone enrolled in school and can use their
educational discount you can pick up the penultimate 13 Macbook Pro
without retina display for $1,000.  I was told at the Apple store
that the latest MBPs are not nearly as easy to upgrade the drive.

Unfortunately, my 53 year old eyes weren't easily able to see the difference
on the 13 screen between the non-retina and the retina displays.

-- 
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[steve harley]

on 2013-11-30 14:14 Stan Halpin wrote

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option to go for a 
wide gamut display?


you can add a second (and third) display to the iMac as well; the Thunderbolt 
bus also supports Mini DisplayPort, and with cheap adapters, HDMI and DVI; i 
would get the iMac and then if you discover a real need for a wide-gamut 
monitor, add it later since the iMac will support it


use the difference in price to max the RAM and consider adding Thunderbolt SSD 
storage (rather than pay Apple to upgrade the internal SSD); consider getting a 
VESA-mount iMac so you can put it on an arm instead of planting the stand at a 
fixed height on your desk; also check the Apple refurbs (though i've never seen 
the VESA models there)




Am I gaining other intangible benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences 
in processor and GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on 
the computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


no doubt the Mac Pro is a lot faster, but we won't know how much until they've 
shipped a few; if you are using mainly Lightroom, then those super-GPUs won't 
make much difference to your photo work


we don't know how good the HD LTD 20-40mm is yet either, though i certainly 
hope it is great


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John]

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan





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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Paul Stenquist]

Gosh, you must be going to the wrong Apple store . I've bought at least a dozen 
Apple computers over the last 30 years, and I seem to still have a lot of soul

Paul via phone

 On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:15 PM, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...
 
 I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
 anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
 Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.
 
 I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
 7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
 replaced Vista with.
 
 Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.
 
 I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
 look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
 their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
 Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
 will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.
 
 On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:
 My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
 with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
 computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.
 
 Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
 than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
 with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
 certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
 the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
 for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
 with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
 the side while I look at other options.
 
 Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
 Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
 vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
 gamut.
 
 WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
 comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
 EIZO:
 http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
 and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
 web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
 better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
 except to further increase the load on my credit card.
 
 And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
 then do I need a desktop at all?
 
 A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
 graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
 about $2900.
 
 The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
 including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
 cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.
 
 So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
 to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
 benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
 GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
 computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?
 
 
 I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.
 
 stan
 
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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John Mullan]

If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class 
machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops aimed 
at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.


jm


-Original Message- 
From: John

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan





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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Stan Halpin]

Thanks John! I know you won't convert me, I won't convert you, but I appreciate 
your perspective.
My first Mac was the MacPlus. I've gone through at least five desktop 
generations since then, plus 3-4 generations of laptops. I pretty much hated 
every new system that came out. I stuck with System 9.x for a long time, 
finally moved to OS-X with version 10.3. In retrospect, each successive change 
was pretty well thought out and the transition was smooth once I took the time 
to unlearn a few old habits and learned to appreciate the new features and new 
ways of doing things. I don't know that Apple has acquired my soul along the 
way, but they do have my conditional loyalty. As long as they continue with 
quality products, I will continue with them.

Along the way I used many Compaq's and Dells etc. There were long stretches 
when the only way I could satisfy the then current Army approach to secure 
sign-in was to use a Windows-based system. So I used a Mac for most of my work, 
a Windows laptop for email, file transfers, etc. I was the only Mac user among 
8500 (?) computer users at Fort Leavenworth and the IT guys used to grumble 
about that, but occasionally they would come to me with a file that they 
couldn't open or whatever and I enjoyed giving my little lecture about the 
value of diversity.

stan


On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:15 PM, John wrote:

 This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...
 
 I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
 anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
 Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.
 
 I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
 7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
 replaced Vista with.
 
 Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.
 
 I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
 look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
 their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
 Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
 will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.
 
 On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:
 My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
 with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
 computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.
 
 Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
 than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
 with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
 certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
 the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
 Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
 for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
 with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
 the side while I look at other options.
 
 Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
 Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
 vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
 gamut.
 
 WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
 comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
 EIZO:
 http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
 and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
 web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
 better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
 except to further increase the load on my credit card.
 
 And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
 then do I need a desktop at all?
 
 A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
 graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
 about $2900.
 
 The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
 including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
 cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.
 
 So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
 to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
 benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
 GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
 computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?
 
 
 I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.
 
 stan
 
 
 
 
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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Stan Halpin]

Larry, Steve - thanks for your comments. In a way they are not very helpful 
because I am looking for compelling reasons why I should go with the Mac Pro 
and not the Mini or iMac. And you both make a good case for not going 
overboard. Oh well. You've given me useful strategies for making do with less. 
And for taking an incremental approach.


On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:56 PM, steve harley wrote:

 on 2013-11-30 14:14 Stan Halpin wrote
 So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option to go 
 for a wide gamut display?
 
 you can add a second (and third) display to the iMac as well; the Thunderbolt 
 bus also supports Mini DisplayPort, and with cheap adapters, HDMI and DVI; i 
 would get the iMac and then if you discover a real need for a wide-gamut 
 monitor, add it later since the iMac will support it
 
 use the difference in price to max the RAM and consider adding Thunderbolt 
 SSD storage (rather than pay Apple to upgrade the internal SSD); consider 
 getting a VESA-mount iMac so you can put it on an arm instead of planting the 
 stand at a fixed height on your desk; also check the Apple refurbs (though 
 i've never seen the VESA models there)
 
 
 Am I gaining other intangible benefits from the (to me) inscrutable 
 differences in processor and GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I 
 save some money on the computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?
 
 no doubt the Mac Pro is a lot faster, but we won't know how much until 
 they've shipped a few;

 if you are using mainly Lightroom, then those super-GPUs won't make much 
 difference to your photo work

This is something I have wondered about. I have seen a few references that show 
a rapidly diminishing gain in LR performance as one moves from 2 to 4 to 6 to 
8-core processors, and I figured that LR or any other current software would be 
unable to fully take advantage of any new CPU or GPU. I have been looking at 
the Perfect Photo Suite to use as an adjunct to LR, and their set-up 
instructions go into modifications to settings based on available cache memory 
on the GPU.  And so I was thinking just maybe this time bigger would be better, 
not only for that program but also for LR...

 
 we don't know how good the HD LTD 20-40mm is yet either, though i certainly 
 hope it is great

stan 


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[Boris Liberman]

Stan, we're a windows household. I have an older version of dell wide gamut 
screen (96% adobe rgb while modern ones are like 99% or something) which I 
could show you.


I am not a Mac person, so I could not help you with you Mac quandaries.

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On November 30, 2013 11:14:55 PM Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info 
wrote:
My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles with 
large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new computer - 
that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.


Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives than 
those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience with MS-DOS 
and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100% certain that I 
have zero interest in going that route. And within the Apple lineup, the 
Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27 Thunderbolt Display, is about 
what I would get in an iMac all-in-one for about the same price. With some 
sacrifice in expansion ports with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the 
table, but pushed well to the side while I look at other options.


Specifically, short version: 	a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac Pro + 
display.
	b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display vs. other good 
display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color gamut.


WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog comments 
and other material (including this interesting piece from EIZO: 
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ ) and I 
am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If web images and 
printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a better image on my 
desktop isn't really going to do anything except to further increase the 
load on my credit card.


And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough, then do 
I need a desktop at all?
A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB graphic 
memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be about $2900.
The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000, 
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added cost of 
memory upgrades, cables, etc.


So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option to go 
for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible benefits from the 
(to me) inscrutable differences in processor and GPUs between the iMac and 
Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?



I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan


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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John]

The computer I built last year is adequate for my needs at this time. It
screams with Photoshop CS6 and it doesn't look like there's going to be
any reason to upgrade hardware for a Photoshop CS7 that's never going to
exist.

All I'm really saying is that if someone did have an interest in
exploring Windoze as an alternative, Windoze 8 isn't the version to do
it with.


On 11/30/2013 10:25 PM, John Mullan wrote:

If you want decent machines with Win 7 Pro, look at Enterprise class
machines like HP's Elitebook and Probook laptops, or similar desktops
aimed at the business user, not the typical consumer class machine.

jm


-Original Message- From: John
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Computer purchase dilemma

This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze computers
anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes preloaded with
Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft ever came up with.

I've currently got 2 build-your-own systems with XP  one with Windoze
7, along with a laptop I need to finish updating the Windoze 7 that I
replaced Vista with.

Windoze sucks, but not enough to induce me to sell my soul to Apple.

I did briefly consider going the hackentosh route, but it doesn't really
look like a viable platform for someone who doesn't enjoy spending all
their time fighting the OS. That's about the only good thing about
Windoze. You can schlep the equipment together  install the OS and it
will pretty much work without having to constantly fight with it.

On 11/30/2013 4:14 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

My 7-year old iMac just keeps on working, but it really struggles
with large image files, etc. My dilemma is not whether to buy a new
computer - that is a given. My dilemma is about what to buy.

Note: I am well aware that I can certainly find cheaper alternatives
than those discussed below. However, I have had enough experience
with MS-DOS and Windows systems over the last few decades to be 100%
certain that I have zero interest in going that route. And within
the Apple lineup, the Mac Mini, tricked out and paired with the 27
Thunderbolt Display, is about what I would get in an iMac all-in-one
for about the same price. With some sacrifice in expansion ports
with the Mini. So the Mini is not off the table, but pushed well to
the side while I look at other options.

Specifically, short version: a. all-in-one (iMac) vs. desktop Mac
Pro + display. b. If desktop+monitor, then Apple Thunderbolt display
vs. other good display vs. display with wide (Adobe RGB) color
gamut.

WRT the monitor - I have read several magazine articles and blog
comments and other material (including this interesting piece from
EIZO:
http://www.eizo.com/global/library/basics/lcd_monitor_color_gamut/ )
and I am not sure what I would gain from a wide-gamut display. If
web images and printers are stuck with sRGB, then for me to see a
better image on my desktop isn't really going to do anything
except to further increase the load on my credit card.

And if the iMac or Apple Thunderbolt style monitor is good enough,
then do I need a desktop at all?

A current quad-core iMac with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M GPU with 4GB
graphic memory plus some system memory and drive upgrades would be
about $2900.

The quad-core base version of the new Mac Pro will start at $3000,
including 2 AMD FirePro D300 GPU's with 2GB on each. Some TBD added
cost of memory upgrades, cables, etc.

So, is there sufficient value added with the desktop and its option
to go for a wide gamut display? Am I gaining other intangible
benefits from the (to me) inscrutable differences in processor and
GPUs between the iMac and Mac Pro? Should I save some money on the
computer system and buy a 20-40 lens?


I welcome any comments or opinions, informed or otherwise.

stan







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Re: Computer purchase dilemma

[John]

I've been having my own problems with the Army's IT system.

Every month since I retired, I get one or more emails from the Army 
lecturing me for my failure to keep my profile up to date  change my 
password, thereby jeopardizing the security of the entire free world.


Unfortunately, I do not have access to a CAC card reader attached to a 
secure Army computer on a .MIL network. And, since retirees are not 
issued a CAC ID card, even if I had physical access to the computer I 
still couldn't change my password or update my profile.


There is no way for me to contact them from outside the system to even 
tell them that I do not have access.


Not just Catch-22, but Catch-22 squared.

I'm not anti-Mac, I just prefer to build my own  I can't really do that 
with a Mac.



On 11/30/2013 10:31 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

Thanks John! I know you won't convert me, I won't convert you, but I
appreciate your perspective. My first Mac was the MacPlus. I've gone
through at least five desktop generations since then, plus 3-4
generations of laptops. I pretty much hated every new system that
came out. I stuck with System 9.x for a long time, finally moved to
OS-X with version 10.3. In retrospect, each successive change was
pretty well thought out and the transition was smooth once I took the
time to unlearn a few old habits and learned to appreciate the new
features and new ways of doing things. I don't know that Apple has
acquired my soul along the way, but they do have my conditional
loyalty. As long as they continue with quality products, I will
continue with them.

Along the way I used many Compaq's and Dells etc. There were long
stretches when the only way I could satisfy the then current Army
approach to secure sign-in was to use a Windows-based system. So I
used a Mac for most of my work, a Windows laptop for email, file
transfers, etc. I was the only Mac user among 8500 (?) computer users
at Fort Leavenworth and the IT guys used to grumble about that, but
occasionally they would come to me with a file that they couldn't
open or whatever and I enjoyed giving my little lecture about the
value of diversity.

stan


On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:15 PM, John wrote:


This will probably be of absolutely no help whatsoever, but ...

I don't think now is a particularly good time to buy Windoze
computers anyway. Looks like everything that's available comes
preloaded with Windoze 8, which is not the best thing Micro$oft
ever came up with.



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OT: Dilemma

[Walt Gilbert]

So, just about 10 miles away, there's a big biker rally taking place in 
a big, open field. It costs $25 for a gate pass good for the whole weekend.


I can go down there today and start taking photos -- quite a few people 
arrive early -- but I have to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I 
likely won't get back down there again before it's over.


Also, I'm trying to save money for my trip to South Dakota at the end of 
next month, and possibly a nice lens if I can swing it.


I'm sure there'd be some good shots to be had at the rally, but at the 
same time, I'm torn as to whether or not I ought to spend the dough. So, 
I appeal to the great minds of the PDML and ask the eternal question put 
to us by The Clash:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

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Re: OT: Dilemma

[Don Guthrie]

That's not a dilemma its an opportunity, Don't miss a chance to take 
photos today in hopes of tomorrow.





pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:54:35 -0500
From: Walt Gilbertldott...@gmail.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net
Subject: OT: Dilemma
Message-ID:5036523b.5060...@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

So, just about 10 miles away, there's a big biker rally taking place in
a big, open field. It costs $25 for a gate pass good for the whole weekend.

I can go down there today and start taking photos -- quite a few people
arrive early -- but I have to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I
likely won't get back down there again before it's over.

Also, I'm trying to save money for my trip to South Dakota at the end of
next month, and possibly a nice lens if I can swing it.

I'm sure there'd be some good shots to be had at the rally, but at the
same time, I'm torn as to whether or not I ought to spend the dough. So,
I appeal to the great minds of the PDML and ask the eternal question put
to us by The Clash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ



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Re: OT: Dilemma

[Walt Gilbert]

That's a great point, Don. I don't want to spend the next year wishing 
I'd gotten off my dead ass to go take pictures today.


Welp! Looks like that's settled.

Thanks, Don!

-- Walt

On 8/23/2012 11:28 AM, Don Guthrie wrote:
That's not a dilemma its an opportunity, Don't miss a chance to take 
photos today in hopes of tomorrow.





pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:54:35 -0500
From: Walt Gilbertldott...@gmail.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net
Subject: OT: Dilemma
Message-ID:5036523b.5060...@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

So, just about 10 miles away, there's a big biker rally taking place in
a big, open field. It costs $25 for a gate pass good for the whole 
weekend.


I can go down there today and start taking photos -- quite a few people
arrive early -- but I have to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I
likely won't get back down there again before it's over.

Also, I'm trying to save money for my trip to South Dakota at the end of
next month, and possibly a nice lens if I can swing it.

I'm sure there'd be some good shots to be had at the rally, but at the
same time, I'm torn as to whether or not I ought to spend the dough. So,
I appeal to the great minds of the PDML and ask the eternal question put
to us by The Clash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ






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Re: OT: Dilemma

[Steven Desjardins]

You should do it because I want to see pictures of the rally.

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Walt Gilbert ldott...@gmail.com wrote:
 That's a great point, Don. I don't want to spend the next year wishing I'd
 gotten off my dead ass to go take pictures today.

 Welp! Looks like that's settled.

 Thanks, Don!

 -- Walt


 On 8/23/2012 11:28 AM, Don Guthrie wrote:

 That's not a dilemma its an opportunity, Don't miss a chance to take
 photos today in hopes of tomorrow.




 pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

 Message: 14
 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:54:35 -0500
 From: Walt Gilbertldott...@gmail.com
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net
 Subject: OT: Dilemma
 Message-ID:5036523b.5060...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 So, just about 10 miles away, there's a big biker rally taking place in
 a big, open field. It costs $25 for a gate pass good for the whole
 weekend.

 I can go down there today and start taking photos -- quite a few people
 arrive early -- but I have to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I
 likely won't get back down there again before it's over.

 Also, I'm trying to save money for my trip to South Dakota at the end of
 next month, and possibly a nice lens if I can swing it.

 I'm sure there'd be some good shots to be had at the rally, but at the
 same time, I'm torn as to whether or not I ought to spend the dough. So,
 I appeal to the great minds of the PDML and ask the eternal question put
 to us by The Clash:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ





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Re: OT: Dilemma

[John Francis]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:40:59AM -0500, Walt Gilbert wrote:
 That's a great point, Don. I don't want to spend the next year
 wishing I'd gotten off my dead ass to go take pictures today.

Yep. Every time I drive past one particular spot on the Road to
Monterey(tm) where there _used_ to be an interesting piece of
sculpture I mentally kick myself for never having taken the
time to stop, even whern I had all my photo gear in the trunk.


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RE: OT: Dilemma

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

This may be too late since it sounds like today might have been your only day 
to go down, but:

I'll post a contrary view here.

You've said that money is an issue. You would buy a weekend pass but only go 
for one day. Yes, you will likely get some great pix but if you don't you might 
regret having spent the money that hour could use elsewhere.

I know that it's happened that I spend good money to go to an event and just 
don't get any decent shots. Yes, I might otherwise enjoy the event but that's 
beside the point.

You might get just as many good shots doing something for free. Or you might go 
and have the time of your life.

Remember though, that money might come in handy getting that new lens...

I don't think there's a wrong answer here, just go with your heart.

;-)

Cheers,
frank the prudent 



What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -- 
Christopher Hitchens

--- Original Message ---

From: Walt Gilbert ldott...@gmail.com
Sent: August 23, 2012 8/23/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: OT: Dilemma

So, just about 10 miles away, there's a big biker rally taking place in 
a big, open field. It costs $25 for a gate pass good for the whole weekend.

I can go down there today and start taking photos -- quite a few people 
arrive early -- but I have to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I 
likely won't get back down there again before it's over.

Also, I'm trying to save money for my trip to South Dakota at the end of 
next month, and possibly a nice lens if I can swing it.

I'm sure there'd be some good shots to be had at the rally, but at the 
same time, I'm torn as to whether or not I ought to spend the dough. So, 
I appeal to the great minds of the PDML and ask the eternal question put 
to us by The Clash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

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Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[luiz felipe]

Larry´s words to Tim, regarding an aestheticall dilemma:

So it comes down to, are you taking photos for your wife and kids, or
for yourself?

--
Larry Colen LRC at red4est.com (from dos4est)



Now, as long as I agree with Larry´s ideas about the dilemma - no, I´m 
not replaying them all here - I need to point out that fully 
disregarding one´s family ideals on photography may end costing one´s 
dear money in divorce-related matters.


Some possible solutions:
1) go ahead, publish and face destiny;
2) leave at that and face psychologist´s fares later;
3) choose a nom de plume and publish the pic - always a small risk it 
becomes famous and dear family finds out about your double id;
4) find a way to publish under your own name and be paid for it - and 
be sure to spend the exact amount with wife and kids.


Seriously, I´d skip #2 at all cost, probably avoid #3 too - done that 
with words long ago, lousy outcome. If possible, I´d try #4 - but 
publish it I would. I´d rather get problems because I did something, 
than getting angry (and the problems that may come with that feeling) 
because of something I didn´t do. Just my 2c.


--
luiz felipe
luiz.felipe at luizfelipe.fot.br

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Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Tim Bray]

We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
or worse if I publish.

I’m not sure what to do.  -T

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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Larry Colen]

On 3/11/2012 12:19 AM, Tim Bray wrote:

We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
or worse if I publish.

I’m not sure what to do.  -T


Tim,

This may come as a surprise to you, but you aren't the only sicko 
photographer on this list. Three and a half years ago, I was coming home 
from Seattle, stopped at a rest stop and saw some other people looking 
at a dead pigeon on the ground.


Not content with just getting pictures, I spent a fair amount of time 
trying to pose the dead bird with a rose, that someone had left in my 
van the previous morning:

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157610185421629/

Unfortunately, the pictures didn't quite turn out for various technical 
reasons (read: stupid mistakes I made).


I run into a similar issue all of the time.  I love to take photos of 
things that were once beautiful, but are now showing signs of decay, 
disrepair and death.  Zab hates those shots.


So it comes down to, are you taking photos for your wife and kids, or 
for yourself?


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est)

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RE: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Bob W]

 From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
 Tim Bray
 
 We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
 causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
 taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
 feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
 and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
 against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
 got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
 think I'm a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
 varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
 even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
 or worse if I publish.
 
 I'm not sure what to do.  -T

Put a few mattresses on the ground beneath your window. Publish. Be damned.

I once heard a great fluttering behind my head, and something whizzed right
past me and landing on the pavement in front of me. It was a kestrel with a
starling in its claws - the strike must have happened right behind me, and
the kestrel proceeded to start tearing at the starling's chest, while the
starling of course was still alive and struggling to get away. For a brief
moment I considered rescuing the starling, but that would have been
pointless. Kestrels have to live too, and that's how they make their living,
so rescuing this one, now crippled starling, would have led to the death of
another healthy bird anyway, so I watched in fascination until something
spooked the kestrel and it flew heavily away up to a rooftop with the
starling still in its talons.

I also have rather an attractive photo of a dead cormorant (yes!). I don't
think it's sick to photograph what we see around us. It may be sick to seek
someof it out sometimes, but if it presents itself, why not?


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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Paul Stenquist]

Show us the photo, an we'll decide.

On Mar 11, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Tim Bray wrote:

 We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
 causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
 taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
 feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
 and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
 against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
 got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
 think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
 varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
 even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
 or worse if I publish.
 
 I’m not sure what to do.  -T
 
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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Definitely post it, but use a warning when you do, as we have some
here who do not wish to view such images.

I posted a PESO some time ago of a rather grisly deer carcass being
eaten by a turkey vulture:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11192182

It got mixed reviews here, but a version of it was accepted in the PPG.

I for one would like to see your little gory gallery, or at leas the
image you like the best.

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 4:19 AM, Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote:
 We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
 causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
 taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
 feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
 and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
 against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
 got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
 think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
 varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
 even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
 or worse if I publish.

 I’m not sure what to do.  -T

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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[John Sessoms]

From: Tim Bray


We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
think I?m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
or worse if I publish.

I?m not sure what to do.  -T


Take 'em to an art museum. Dead birds are a staple of still life painting.

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RE: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

That's a tough one and while I understand the feelings of your family, you're 
just photographing the world you inhabit. There is sometimes beauty in death, 
or even if it's not beautiful there may be a story worth capturing and showing.

Cheers,
frank

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -- 
Christopher Hitchens

--- Original Message ---

From: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com
Sent: March 11, 2012 3/11/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
or worse if I publish.

I’m not sure what to do.  -T

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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Stan Halpin]

All of Audebon's work was based on dead birds, mostly ones that he shot himself.

On Mar 11, 2012, at 2:03 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's a tough one and while I understand the feelings of your family, you're 
 just photographing the world you inhabit. There is sometimes beauty in death, 
 or even if it's not beautiful there may be a story worth capturing and 
 showing.
 
 Cheers,
 frank
 
 What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -- 
 Christopher Hitchens
 
 --- Original Message ---
 
 From: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com
 Sent: March 11, 2012 3/11/12
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird
 
 We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
 causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
 taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
 feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
 and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
 against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
 got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
 think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
 varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
 even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
 or worse if I publish.
 
 I’m not sure what to do.  -T
 
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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[Bruce Walker]

While I'm not keen to view that subject matter, as described, myself,
if tastefully presented it could have a solemn beauty.

Art that takes risks is some of the best art.


On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 4:19 AM, Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote:

 We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
 causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
 taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
 feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
 and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
 against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
 got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
 think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
 varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
 even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
 or worse if I publish.

 I’m not sure what to do.  -T

--
-bmw

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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[steve harley]

on 2012-11-03 1:48 Larry Colen wrote

This may come as a surprise to you, but you aren't the only sicko photographer
on this list. [...]
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157610185421629/


awww, sweet …

i'm not quite that sick, but i've documented the leavings of hawk feasts, and 
also had a wonderful time with a duck that mysteriously crashed into our 
backyard last winter


[perfunctory warning to viewers]

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3510446/1/death?h=3d43e3

i also photographed my father's cremation, which despite my limits as a 
photographer i think is an amazing document (and one i don't share widely)




I love to take photos of things
that were once beautiful, but are now showing signs of decay, disrepair and
death.


the once-beautiful is perhaps the most beautiful; impermanence is a noble theme

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Re: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird

[kwaller]

Along similar lines, I had, for me, a world class photo experience in 2004 
in Denali National Park, Alaska during a 2 week photo tour in the park. We 
were alerted to a caribou kill in the east fork of the Tolkat river  
hurriedly rushed to get to the scene. By the time we got there, the caribou 
was done in  male  female wolf were taking turns gorging themselves with 
the caribou remains  then going off across the river to disgorge  feed 2 
wolf pups on the other side. We set up and proceeded to photograph the scene 
for over 3 hours.


I got around 500 images of the two adults feeding on the carcus - some were 
very good  upon showing several to some friends was told by some they never 
wanted to see these images - I on the other hand felt I had captured a 
seldom seen wilderness experience - It hasn't stopped me from posting some 
of those images.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com

Subject: Aesthetic dilemma: inverted bird


We went for a waterfront walk today, and I took a picture that is
causing family grief. It was of the remains of a bird, slaughtered and
taken apart and almost entirely eaten by a raptor or (more likely) a
feline, left on a granite surface; the contrast between black feathers
and pink muscle tissue was shocking but I thought sort of beautiful
against the speckled stone. Fortunately I had the 50-135mm with me and
got what I think is a hell of a picture. Unfortunately my wife  kids
think I’m a sicko pervert for taking it (a dozen or more shots at
varying exposures, just to be sure, while they averted their eyes) and
even sicker for liking it, and are threatening me with defenestration
or worse if I publish.

I’m not sure what to do.  -T



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OT: Scanner dilemma solved

[Paul Stenquist]

I discovered last night that while my old Epson 3200 no longer worked with 
Vuescan, it did work with Apple's Image Capture. Unfortunately, Image Capture 
is extremely basic and of little use, but at least I knew the scanner wasn't 
broken. So I contacted Ed Hamrick, the Vuescan guru, this morning, and he had 
me try the new version 9 of Vuescan. That did the trick, so I'm back in 
business for now. A new scanner will have to wait, since I have seen nothing 
that convinces me that the current Epson flatbeds are any better than the 3200. 
Perhaps I'll be able to afford a medium format scanner some day, although the 
need isn't great. It would be used only to scan existing negs, but of those, I 
have many.

Paul
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RE: I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[John Sessoms]

From: Collin Brendemuehl


Shot a bunch of pics in RAW at a campout a few weeks ago.
But I may have changed the colorspace or something.
Now PSElements will not load them.
What can be done?


Did you open them in PSElements and do something to them and now can't 
open them again?


Or do you mean you haven't been able to open them in PSElements at all?

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I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[Collin Brendemuehl]

Shot a bunch of pics in RAW at a campout a few weeks ago.
But I may have changed the colorspace or something.
Now PSElements will not load them.
What can be done?

Sincerely, 

Collin Brendemuehl 
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose 
-- Jim Elliott 






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Re: I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[Paul Stenquist]

If you have a copy of Elements that includes ACR, it should load them. However, 
your copy of ACR must be updated to include RAW conversion of your file type. 
The catch is that Adobe doesn't provide recenet file type upgrades for old 
versions of ACR. The safe bet when shooting RAW with recent Pentax DSLR cameras 
is to shoot RAW DNG. However, you should be able to use Adobe's DNG converter 
and convert the Pentax RAW files to DNG RAW. I think the RAW converter is a 
free download.
Paul

On Sep 24, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

 Shot a bunch of pics in RAW at a campout a few weeks ago.
 But I may have changed the colorspace or something.
 Now PSElements will not load them.
 What can be done?
 
 Sincerely, 
 
 Collin Brendemuehl 
 He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose 
 -- Jim Elliott 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[Brian Walters]

On Saturday, September 24, 2011 12:16 PM, Collin Brendemuehl
coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote:
 Shot a bunch of pics in RAW at a campout a few weeks ago.
 But I may have changed the colorspace or something.
 Now PSElements will not load them.
 What can be done?


It's likely that the version of Camera Raw in your version of PSE
doesn't handle the PEFs from your camera but it will handle DNG.  As
Paul said - use DNG in future to overcome the problem.

Do you have the Pentax software that came with the camera? That will
open the files.  Alternatively you could download and install the free
Raw Therapee software.  It's a very nice application with support for
pretty much all recent cameras.  It should be able to process the files
and allow you to save them as TIF or JPG:

http://rawtherapee.com/downloads



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/

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-- 
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Re: I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[Collin Brendemuehl]

Oops.  Duh.   whatever else is suitable.
After I got the new laptop I forgot to also install the converter.
Doing that fixed it.
Thanks all.

Sincerely, 

Collin Brendemuehl 
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose 
-- Jim Elliott 






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Re: I may have hosed myself: dilemma of a PS novice

[William Robb]

On 24/09/2011 6:16 AM, Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

Shot a bunch of pics in RAW at a campout a few weeks ago.
But I may have changed the colorspace or something.
Now PSElements will not load them.
What can be done?


You've probably switched your raw from DNG to PEF.
If this is the case, and your converter isn't new enough to open the 
PEFs, download the DNG converter from Adobe's website.


--

William Robb

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RE: The GESO Dilemma

[John Coyle]

And, according to sources at Buck House, tea should be stirred in a North-East 
-
South-West direction without the spoon clattering against the side of the cup. 
 Extracted
from the guidelines for guests at the palace's garden parties.

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David 
Mann
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 5:50 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: The GESO Dilemma

On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

 Teacups must be held with the fingers to the front and back of the handle 
 (not looped
through), and the pinky curved delicately away for balance.

Tea that's made to BS 6008:1980 (aka ISO 3103), of course.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: The GESO Dilemma

[Paul Sorenson]

That instruction assumes you're right-handed.

-p

On 6/30/2011 2:04 AM, John Coyle wrote:

And, according to sources at Buck House, tea should be stirred in a North-East 
-
South-West direction without the spoon clattering against the side of the cup. 
 Extracted
from the guidelines for guests at the palace's garden parties.

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David 
Mann
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 5:50 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: The GESO Dilemma

On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Rick Womer wrote:


Teacups must be held with the fingers to the front and back of the handle (not 
looped

through), and the pinky curved delicately away for balance.

Tea that's made to BS 6008:1980 (aka ISO 3103), of course.

Cheers,
Dave




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Re: The GESO Dilemma

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Do they permit lefties in the palace?

Dan

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Paul Sorenson pentax1...@gmail.com wrote:
 That instruction assumes you're right-handed.

-- 
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: The GESO Dilemma

[Paul Sorenson]

Probably not...a sinestra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handedness

-p

On 6/30/2011 8:42 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Do they permit lefties in the palace?

Dan

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Paul Sorensonpentax1...@gmail.com  wrote:

That instruction assumes you're right-handed.




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