Re: trivia help
At 12:55 PM 4/28/99 EDT, Bill wrote: yep, at least in the top 40. "ration blues," #1 for three weeks; "deacon jones," the b-side (#7); and is you is or is you ain't (ma' baby), #1 for 5 weeks. all charted in 1944. Which was the first year of Billboard's country chart and the same year that nat King Cole and Ella Fitzgerald charted high on the country charts. After this year, though, I haven't found any such apparent rb/jazz genre crossing, not a one. Does anyone know if this was due to some initial charting procedural error that was later rectified, or were Nat and Ella and Louis actually being played back to back with Rex Griffin, Ernest Tubb and Red Foley on "country" stations, a programming choice that ended the very next year? I also think this would have been before the widespread notion of one-format-based radio stations, which makes it all even more confusing... --david cantwell
Re: Lee Ann Womack on the Opry
At 01:27 AM 4/25/99 -0400, Jon wrote: In between she did a good slow, hard-country number that's not on either of her albums, most likely titled "A Way To Survive"; anyone know where it comes from? A Way To Survive is among my very favorite Ray Price hits, a Top 10 effort from 1966. --david cantwell
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 05:30 PM 4/24/99 EDT, you wrote: where what I believe was his last televised concert he sang "Unchained Melody" accompanying himself on the piano. It is one of the most emotional and powerful musical moments I have ever seen. He looks like hell, but that voice is strong and perfect. It makes me cry. This amazing clip is on one of the Great Performances videos as well (and the arrangment/interpretation is largely borrowed, I'd say, from Charlie Rich's Sun era version of the song). It makes me cry too. But it makes me cry precisely because his voice CAN'T do it anymore, which isn't so suprising since he's like only a few weeks away from being dead. He can't hit the high notes at all, or the low ones either. It's a pretty pathetic performance, but it's also painfully poignant for the sheer gesture of the attempt, or maybe because of his glassy-eyed obliviousness to his lack of chops. At any rate, Unchained Melody is a very hard song to sing even for someone in their prime, but Elvis doesn't try to sing it differently to account for his new vocal weaknesses; he just plows through. So I agree with you that's it's among the most emotional and powerful of musical moments. But it's incredibly hard for me to watch, especially since I know what he's lost, and what's coming. --david cantwell
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 09:36 PM 4/23/99 +0200, Tom wrote: Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. I have no comment. Just wanted to say how great it was to see a Tom Ekeberg post! --david cantwell
Re: Artist of the Decade?
At 10:28 PM 4/21/99 -0700, Jerry wrote: I found Nirvana to be way to raw and underproduced for my liking Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. As someone who also appreciates big production, let this fellow traveler just reassure you that Nevermind, despite the culty punk expectations it carries, was...PRODUCED OUT THE ASS Anyone interested in learning about all the production that went into that record--overdubbed and layered guitar parts, composite vocal tracks, double-tracked vocals, seperately recorded drum takes, etc etc etc--should track down a copy of the May 1998 MOJO where band members and producer Butch Vig take us through the album's recording and mixing, track by track. You're right, btw, that Cobain's vocals were never pleasing. But they weren't supposed to be. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential
At 07:48 PM 4/21/99 -0400, Carl wrote: Not to displace anything in David's definitive Top 4 - (sideline: except that I'm not quite convinced we've covered soul properly in the person of James Brown, whose influence vocally and rhythmically is definitive for funk-disco-rap but not so much in the more slow-grooving melody-centred part of pop-soul-RB Good call, Carl. Brother Ray is huge this century and he deserves to be there, and very high too. But as for Brown and pop-soul RB, I'd suggest a replaying of the Startime box set, disc one, especially "Try Me," "I Know It's True," Baby, You're Right," "Lost Someone," "It's A Man's World," and especially, especially "Prisoner Of Love," which is as great a bit of pop-soul-RB as Charles ever did. Hell, as anyone ever did. - but on Tera's behalf I'd reluctantly say that if we look at the current state of pop music, where female singer-songwriters are about the only growing concern in the rock column of the equation, it's not easy to avoid pegging Joni Mitchell fairly high up. Well, bristling, I say: HOW fairly high up are you talking? g Joni Mitchell was the pop-music equivalent of Jackie Robinson, breaking the bar as the first major female artist to visibly call the shots on her own career, on her own songs and in her own distinctly female (but not feminized) voice Didn't Aretha already do this, at least during the post-Columbia, classic Atlantic period? (Yes, you might name Dolly or Loretta or Aretha or Billie Holiday or Ella or Tina Turner, but I don't think any of them visibly held control over their personae and music in the same way.) I've already named, as has Tera, Aretha, Mahalia, and Bessie, and I don't think the rest of your list quite makes it to the Top Ten or Fifteen level (well, MAYBE Ella..) that we've been discussing. BUT, Madonna (who you skip over so quickly)... what I was thinking? She HAS to be incredibly high on a list of most influentials, right? The whole current women's movement can be traced back to her, I'd say, and far more directly--both in terms of music and in terms of business--than it could to Joni. She's also been huge, for better or worse, in the way image rules today, as well as in the way street moves are immediately co-opted for commercial gain and (sometimes) artistic success. The irony is that Mitchell's historical significance far outstrips her musical quality - much of the latter is for the worse, in that she, er, overlegitimized confessional songwriting Agreed as to her quality. And, as to her singificance, would her contemporary, Sweet Baby James, have played a more visible, more broad-based role in spreading this kind of music to the wide world (both in confessional songwriting and in OVERLY confessional songwriting)? Plus, James apparently has got that whole Garth thing to answer for... --david cantwell
Re: Artist of the Decade?
At 05:16 AM 4/22/99 -0500, JP dared us all to explain the artist of the decade should NOT be one of the following: Perry Farrell (who commercialized the most interesting aspects of Nirvana's "revolution") You mean, LEAST interesting, right? Dr. Dre Well, I nominated him myself, so I ain't gonna run him down here... U2 Their best and most influential work was all in the 80s, not the 90s. Prince Ditto. With an explanation point. Red Hot Chili Peppers Hootie and the Blowfish Please, I'm trying my damndest to forget both these bands PJ Harvey I like her records a lot, but it seems to me that, first, an artist of the decade should be somebody whose audience extends beyond you, me, Robert Christgau and that one weird guy at the record store. Cesaria Evora (who didn't even know she was making beautiful records for consumerist dissection) No, precisely because no one knew she was doing it. Trent Reznor (who tried unsuccessfully to avoid the traps of the celebrity culture while commenting upon it AND fucking fashion models; and making great music) As you, say he attempted this UNsuccessfully. Master P Not with Dre on the list. Don Yates (a master of disguise) Now, this is an intriguing nomination, but it's the wrong category. Maybe instead: Turd-Stirrer/Goat-Getter/Curry-Baiter/Midwest Basher of the Year? --david cantwell
RE: Artist of the Decade?
At 03:08 PM 4/22/99 -0500, JP wrote in defense of Dre: With NWA he took rap music from party music to street poetry with a documentarian stance. Unlike Public Enemy he got his message across without being pedantic. This legitimized "gangsta" rap to the critical establishment AND opened the door for hip-hop's dominance of teen culture. Don't be silly. He primarily did this with Straight Outta Compton--an 80s album. With Ice Cube he revolutionized sampling and rap production- creating an aural cinema of the urban wasteland. Don't be silly. Ice Cube's earliest and most influential records were produced by the Bomb Squad, not Dre. Nuff said. I'm right, you're wrong. Na, na, na, nahhh. But I nominated him FIRST. Na, na, na, nahhh yourownself g. --david cantwell
RE: Artist of the Decade?
At 03:46 PM 4/22/99 -0500, JP wrote: Achtung Baby! is a deathly serious record. It's also their most literate and musical. You know, in some ways this is probably right. I'd nominate either Achtung or Joshua Tree as their best over all albums. But, as far as artist of the 90s goes, Achtung is hardly representative of the band's work this decade--you could argue in fact that it works so well precisely because it's the culmination of what they'd done well all through the 80s. --david cantwell
Re: Artist of the Decade/singles/influence
At 05:00 PM 4/22/99 -0400, Carl wrote: HOWEVER: Your question about whether Aretha rather than Joni was the key gender-revolutionary in sixties pop was already creeping into my head as I wrote that last post. I'd certainly *prefer* to say it was Aretha - but I wonder if she had the same women-can-be-auteurs impact? Perhaps, but this requires further thinking and historicization; I've just realized that maybe before deciding exactly whose gender-bar-breaking was the most definitive (and I do think this is, as Music Trivia games go, an important one), I should read one of those late-90s books about women-in-music that I've been semi-avoiding. Any recommendations for the best one? I don't have a recommendation since I've been avoiding them too. I would recomend Dave marsh's liner notes essay to the Aretha box, however--it does a great job of portraying her as an artist in charge of her own art. Of course, you're probably right that Mithchell was percieved in more of an auteur sense, but this may say more about critical perception than actual fact, about the critical biases in favor of album acts over singles acts, of white women in favor of black women, of what's presented as all-by-myself art vs.collaborative art. --david cantwell
Re: Hecklers, was: Wilco @ Pearl Street
At 09:22 AM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: My favorite "shut up" line was from Henry Rollins of Black Flag: "Lose the 'tude, dude." A good shut up line, no doubt, but if reversed and shouted at Rollins instead, it would make a more than appropriate heckle. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential
At 01:49 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Tera wrote: Yes, I know what you mean - however...Crosby was influenced enough by Jolson to forego his previously scheduled future to pursue a career in music. After Crosby began singing he took other influences into account and thus established his own style. I'd say Jolson was the greatest influence for Crosby as Jolson was responsible for kick-starting a career which may not have been otherwise. Personally, I'd call this more inspiration than influence. Maybe i'm unusual (watch it, now Tera!) but when I talk about musical influences I tend to think not only the person or thing that inspired or motivated an artist to create art in the first place but primarily the persons or things that actually influenced or helped shape the KIND of art that was made. In Crosby's case, that figure was largely Armstrong. To use a far less significant example to illustrate this distinction, the writer who first got me thinking that, hey, I want to be a writer too was, no snickering, J.R.R. Tolkien. It would be a lie, however, if I said he had been an actual influence on the kind of writing i do or the way i do it. Well, it seems to me that Jolson was responsible for changing the way in which music was presented. as well as a whole lot else, as Tera articulated quite well. Like I say, he was hugely important. But my only point is that the things Jolsen did, while significant, tended to end with him. Crosby came along, basically refuted the Jolsen model--Crosby's singing and acting is diametrically opposed to Jolsen's in nearly every way--and helped create (no exageration) the world and musical style we tend to think of as being "Twentieth Century"--that is, the world we live in and the musical styles we still use. Jolsen, by contrast, was merely the high point of a world we long ago left behind. Tera (and you still skirted around the issue of great female influentials...harummph! Can I hear a Ma Rainey or a Bessie Smith?) You can hear a Bessie Smith, and I'll repeat Mahalia Jackson, and add Aretha Franklin. All three would be "top ten most influential" candidates. But I'm standing pat with my Satchmo/King then JB/Bing Top 4. --david cantwell
Re: Artist of the Decade?
Dittos to all the Cobain support. But, though I'd need to think much harder about it, my gut reaction tells me the artist of the decade might just have to be...Dr. Dre. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
At 03:50 AM 4/20/99 -0400, always pushing me to have to think g, Tera wrote: Crosby has said that his greatest musical influence was Al Jolsen. Should we be talking about Crosby here or should we be giving a nod to Al Jolsen as one of the single most influential? There's no doubt that Crosby idolized Jolsen. EVERYONE idolized him, but I'm not so sure he was that big a musical influence on Crosby. Certainly Jolsen's charisma as a performer was an inspiration, but as for the way he actually sang, Crosby was far more influenced by Armstrong, and he often said so. This is also the distinction made, in fact, by both Will Freidwald (in the indispensable Jazz Singing: America's Greatest Voices From Bessie Smith to Bebop and Beyond) and by Crosby friend and biographer Ken Barnes (in the out of print The Crosby Years). I have read where Crosby said that he wanted to become a singer, in large part, because of Jolsen but I've also read him saying that he stopped trying to sing like Jolsen very early on, as in while he was still in his pre-solo-career group, the Rhythm Boys! Jolsen is undoubtedly influential, though--he'd have to be in the top 20 or 20 or so somewhere. Still, there's something about his work that doesn't translate well to our times--am I speaking out of turn here? I don't think so--something stagey and overdone and unsubtle and rhythmically dense, etc, etc. etc. to our modern tastes. It's as if he's speaking a different language, practically. Which is just another way of saying, I guess, that his specific musical influence didn't much carry over throughout the rest of the century. No matter where you look to the greatest, there's always someone who came before. Whoever it was who talked about Buddy Bolden - yes, Armstrong borrowed a lot from Buddy. Should Bolden be the influence, I wonder? As I've said you could trace influences back forever, which would make the most inlfuential artist ever the first artist ever, the one who picked up a rock and banged it against another rock for the sheer pleasure of the sound or whatever. But that's not very revealing (and I know it's not what Tera said..). It's also inacurate, I think, since it means that predecessors are always more influential, by definition. Little Willie John is more influential than James Brown? Jake Hess is more influential than Elvis? Miss Ross is more influential than Michael Jackson? Bolden, and King Oliver too, were certainly big influences on Louis but how many people in future years cited Oliver or Bolden as influences? And how many named Armstrong? --david cantwell
Re: Der Bingle
At 11:47 AM 4/20/99 -0500, Lance asked: And didn't Crosby record some tracks with Louis Armstrong in the 20's or 30's? I don't believe so (I say very cautiously). I THINK their first studio recordings were their April 25, 1951 recordings of "Gone Fishin'" (a live version of this appears on the MCA Bing box) and "Old Soldiers Never Die." Live struff, of course, is another matter. maybe this is right.... --david cantwell PS: Bing recorded two sides, My Baby Said Yes and something else I forget, with Louis Jordan and His Tympany Five in 1944.
Re: My Bing-a-Ling
At 02:07 PM 4/20/99 -0400, DP wrote: Wondering when we're going to start debating the Artist of the Millennium, Solomon, for all those psalms. Or was that the last millenium G --david cantwell
Re: My Bing-a-Ling
At 01:32 PM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote: You might check out that "High Society" movie with Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, and Louis Armstrong all in the same plot (with Grace Kelly as Female lead). It's got two or three of our all-time greats on one stage, as it were. And it's aged better than most Presley films g. Well, it's not very good, even by those low standards--though maybe it just pales, and then some, in comparison to the incredible The Philadelphia Story, the non-musical film it was based upon. BUT, the music in High Society is often quite good--especially a Bing-Satch duet on, I think, "That's Jazz" and a Bing-Frank duet on, I think, "What A Swell Party It's Been." Then again, it's a Cole Porter score, so of course the songs are good. The only thing that could ruin them is if someone who can't sing sings them and, unfortunately, Grace Kelly does just that on at least two occasions. --david cantwell
Re: My Bing-a-Ling
Ok, my last Bing post, promise. In case the discussion of the last couple of days has peaked anyone's curiosity to check out some Bing Crosby, here's a few suggestions. Knowing my audience, I'm sticking (usually) with his more stripped down and stringless later stuff. Bing With A Beat, with Bob Scobey's Frisco Jazz Band (RCA, 1957)--this set has Bing in fine voice with great arrangements, some going the swinging' sinatra route but others more in a hot jazz vein. Very, very good record. Some Fine Old Chesnuts (Decca, 1953)--Bing with the Buddy Cole Trio. This is a fine record in as nearly an intimate an approach as Crosby ever took. It's on disc now, too, a two-fer with 1957's New Tricks, a less successful Buddy Cole sequel from '57. The Great Country Hits (Capitol, 1964)--Recommended ONLY IF you like the nashville sound, and in a 1960s Eddy Arnold vein to boot, this album of late Crosby includes covers of everything from Oh Lonesome Me and Heartaches By The Number to Wolverton Mountain, Hello Walls and Still. Pretty darn good stuff. I know there's a collection of his 1940s country-cowboy stuff--Pistol Packin' Mama, Don't Fence Me In, New San Antonio Rose, Deep In The Heart Of Texas, etc--but I don't know the name of it. But I highly recommend it, whatever it's called. The four-cd MCA box, Bing: His Legendary Years, 1931-1957, is great--but probably not a very economical investment, unless you're already a convert. My fave Bing moment is him doing It's Been A Long, Long Time backed by only the Les Paul Trio--if anyone knows if there's an entire album of this pairing, please let me know ASAP. Finally, I am STILL looking for Bing's two sides recorded in 1952 with Grady Martin and His Slew Foot Five. A heads up would be much appreciated if you can share any leads. Buh, buh, buh bye! --david cantwell
Re: Der Bingle
Thanks Brad! I didn't know about the '36 Louis/Bing deal that Lance had suggested was out there. I wonder if it's not from the film of that same year (Pennies From Heaven), which starred both Bing and Louis. But then why would it be listed as Frances Langford..? I dunno... --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Lance, I'd say everything you wrote about Parker is dead on (I'd better--I'm from KC where we just dedicated a huge Easter Island looking bust of the Bird), but only IF we limit the discussion to jazz. If we look to the whole of 20th century pop, however, which is what I was doing, then Armstrong is the man. Satchmo was the foundation not just of modern jazz, as you say, but of modern popular music. And the edifice? I guess that'd have to be Elvis. --david cantwell At 05:38 PM 4/19/99 -0500, you wrote: It's hard to argue AGAINST Armstrong, but I think Charlie Parker put Louis' massive instrumental contributions into something of a musical perspective. Not only was Bird--like Hendrix later on--the most imaginative and "electric" player of his era, but unlike Armstrong, there has never been a time since when his ideas have fallen out of favor. Bird's reconception and reorganization of Armstrong's formal solo made even Louis' monumental earlier efforts seem a bit dated (which was admittedly unfair). Bird made complex harmonic and melodic ideas swing, and he made oddly accented and angular rhythmic reinventions seem natural. Plus, and most importantly I think, there was very rarely a sense that even his most "out there" ideas weren't still the blues. Once Bird appeared on the scene, musicians emulated his playing and not, directly anyway, Armstrong's. (Unfortunately, too many players also emulated his junkie lifestyle for ANY insight into his muse). Charlie Mingus once said something to the effect that if horn-playing was gunslinging there'd be a whole lot of dead copycats. The same, of course, could be said about Armstrong, which is why it's impossible to argue AGAINST him. However, the influence of Bird on even contemporary players is still huge compared to Armstrong (which is, once again, unfair to Satch). If Armstrong was the foundation upon which modern jazz was built, Parker was the edifice itself. Personally, I don't think either man should be slighted at the other's expense, but the role of Bird from the early '40's onward is a tough chunk of history to look past.
Re: Der Bingle
At 06:08 PM 4/19/99 -0400, you wrote: why choose Bing over Frank then?? Just wondering how your logic works . . This is a good question, James--and I also appreciate that you at least assume I have a logic to work g. I wouldn't necessarily say that Bing's influence has stretched further into the future than Frank's but I'd argue that BC's initial contributions, which of course allowed for Frank's later elaborations, were more significant. Bing created new ways of singing that, first off, allowed the singer to swing (and here Bing's vocals were influenced by Satchmo's playing, of course) and second, that were conversational and intimate, two things that had not really existed, in the era of Jolsen and Cantor, before the old groaner's innovations. Sinatra greatly refined those techniques, to be sure, but he didn't come up with entirely new ones, as Bing had. Also, I'd argue that Bing's musical influence reached outside the pop music of his day, which went until I was a kid don't forget. For one example, without Crosby's style of singing it's hard to imagine the Tommy Duncan, Gene Autry, Red Foley, Jim Reeves, George Morgan or Eddy Arnold that we all (?) love so dearly. Similarly, Bing also had a great influence on musical theater. Sinatra's specific influence didn't cross boundaries so much, not even to the stage where again he just continued what Bing had started, and when it did it was perhaps more in swagger than anything else. I don't know if that makes a case or not, but that's the, uh, "logic." You know, I think I'd nominate ol' Cros' as THE performer of the century, even before Elvis. What I mean by that is that, for one thing, he was the one who first most widely employed the concept of a public persona that became identifiable with the man--that in fact made it hard to distinguish between the man and the entertainer (see writers Gary Giddens and Will Freidwald for elaborations on this point). He was also one of the first to go multi-media as a hugely successful film/radio star. Our entire century of celebrity has, in the decades since, been built upon these two strategies, all the way from, uh, Sinatra and Elvis on up to Madonna and Tupac. --david cantwell
Re: Hey KC? Frogpond?
Hey Neil: Frogpond is a KC band--actually, at least originally, a Warrensburg, MO band--that had quite a buzz going awhile back, especially after that were picked to perform at one of REM's private gatherings. I've always found them superficially engaging but nothing has ever really broken through for me--kinda of a less compelling Vercuca Salt, who themselves were only intermittently compelling to me. One of Frogpond's members, however, Kristi Stremmel (sp?), broke off and started a power trio called Exit 159, which I'd say is one of the better alt.rock/pop combos going today, IMO (though the competition ain't much, I'll admit). They have a website at exit159.com and a self-titled album on Don't Touch Me Records. --david cantwell At 05:30 PM 4/19/99 EDT, you wrote: Just heard a song by Frogpond on bravenewworld.net and it was really something special in a twangless, indie pop sort of way. Anyone know anything about 'em? Cantwell? Do you dip in this part of the local-music pool? Wowee. I love when this happens. NW
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell
Re: Mike Ireland tour dates east/midwest/south/UK
At 05:57 PM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: they played a new song or two and some great covers (Twitty, Charlie Rich's wife whose first name I cant remember, That'd be margaret ann rich, who wrote quite a few of Rich's better songs: Go Ahead And Cry (from Pictures and Paintings), Have A Heart (from Boss Man), That's The Day You Said You Stopped Loving Me (from Set me Free), plus Pass On By and great Smash cuts like Down And Out, A Field Of Yellow Daisies, Everything I Do is Wrong and Party Girl. The best M.A. Rich song, though, was Life Has It's Little Ups And Downs, from the Fabulous Charlie Rich. --david cantwell
Re: Margaret Ann Rich song
At 11:46 AM 4/18/99 EDT, you wrote: It was a song Mike Ireland said he'd learned from a 45 that included some dumb interview in which the DJ credits the song to Charlie Rich. Anybody know of it? If that's the story he told, the I'd say it's definately Life Has It's Little Ups And Downs (as in "...like ponies on a merry-go-round, but no one grabs the brass ring everytime, but she don't mind. She's got a gold ring on her finger, and I'm so glad that's it's mine") --dc
Re: Era of Perfect Singles
At 09:08 AM 4/17/99 -0400, The Mazor wrote: ...but a Perfect Single has a sort of obvious definition: It has to explode at you and grab your attention in low fidelity from AM radio As I've said elsewhere before, I feel really lucky to have gotten in on the tail end of this era as it peaked (says me) in the early to mid-70s, then dribbled out into the 80s. The greatest singles almost always ANNOUNCE themselves. You know it's I Want You Back, or Mama Tried or I'll Take You There or Go All The Way or The Wonder Of You or Let's Stay Together or Day After Day and on and on, almost from note one. Like Linda, I wish barry's subject line was more prognostication than historical desctription. --david cantwell
Underappreciated
Alright, a list game!! Well, Carl W., it seems to me there are two ways you can go with this underappreciated thing. We could say that albums are underappreciated because no one (hardly) heard them, but we could also say records are underappreciated because they weren't given their appropriate critical due, even though lots and lots of people heard them. So, I'm coming up with a top five (or more) in each category, listed alphabetically. First, The Unheard Music: Blood Oranges--The Crying Tree (ESD, 1994)--What Bill S. said. This is one of the very best alt.country (rock) records ever made. Ditch Witch--Everywhere Nowhere, Plus The Faye Singles (Grass, 1994)--I am still amazed by how hard this record rocks, and by how much it moves me. "Explode" is among the elite of this decade's best tracks. Mike Ireland Holler--Learning How To Live (Sub Pop, 1998)--Kinda a cheat since, while it sold absolutely shit, I've never encountered a record that got such wide-ranging and virtually universal positive press. The best alt.country (country) record ever made? Adam Schmitt--World So Bright (Reprise, 1991)--The best (true) power pop record since, hell, the Raspberries. Schmitt's follow-up, the much grungier Illiterature, is damn good too. Style--In Tone We Trust (Select, 1990)--One of the best rap albums ever released and no one, with the possible exception of Don Yates, has even heard it. The bass-heavy single "What A Brother Know" is among rap's best kept secrets. -- Now, The Heard Music: Hanson--Middle Of Nowhere (Mercury, 1997)--As good as any album released this decade. No qualifications. Iris DeMent--The Way I Should (WB, 1996)--Her best, most focused record, which is really saying something special on the heels of My Life. Dr. Dre--The Chronic (Interscope, 1992)--Not just mega popular, not just influential, not just representative of a genre and a moment, but a truly great work of art. Maria McKee--You Gotta Sin To Get Saved (Geffen, 1993)--Easily the best album Maria McKee's ever been involved with because it's the closest she's come to making a soul record. And it still twangs too. Rancid--And Out Come The Wolves (Epitaph, 1995)--Sure, they cop the Clash. But the Clash, excepting London Calling, never made an album this perfect. And even there it might be a close call... Spearhead--Home (Capitol, 1994)--Among the three or four best rap albums of the decade. Maybe THE best... Bruce Springsteen--Lucky Town (Columbia, 1992)--Despite the collective yawn that greeted it, this is, IMO, among Bruce's top five best albums--and, bonus, the twangiest of his full-out rock efforts. Lisa Stansfield--Lisa Stansfield (Arista, 1998)--The best album yet from one of the most amazing, powerful singers on the planet. George Strait--Chill of An Early Fall (MCA, 1991)--One of the best country albums, ever. I could go on but... --david cantwell
Re: Underappreciated
I addressed that last post to Carl Wilson, but it was Jacob London who started things off, right? Ooops. Sorry. Great idea, Jacob. --dc
Re: The perfect single (was Re: Weller's Prime)
At 12:59 AM 4/16/99 -0400, you wrote: I don't know how this thread evolved really...but why does every writer of note always tag "I Want You Back" as such a great song? Is it because it really IS a great song or is it because...what? Speaking only for myself, Tera, I never made any claims for I Want You Back being a great song. I did say I thought it was a great single, which is a different, though not unrelated, thing altogether. From the second that piano slides in at the opening, everything about the record--the RECORD--works to emotional and rhythmic perfection: the bass (often doubled, I think, by the piano), the strings, the funky guitar, the drums that explode like gunshots at the beginning of each chorus, the brothers call and response--the whole arrangement and production--plus Michael's miraculous vocal, especially his phrasing, but also the shift from Michael to Jermaine...man, it's all just incredible. And the song? You know, it's pretty darn good, too. Not great, maybe, not al by itself, but then with great singles, it's often the singer, or the overall sound, in tandem with the song that takes everything to another level. --david cantwell PS: Great list, btw, Tera, espeically all the Aretha and Living For The City PPS: Great righteous tirade, Donald!
Re: The perfect single (was Re: Weller's Prime)
Don't y'all l listen to ANY soul? One more baker's dozen of perfect singles. No rhyme, reason or order, just perfection: David Ruffin's My Whole World Ended The O'Jays' Backstabbers The Staple Singers' I'll Take You There Bill Withers' Lean On Me The J5's I Want You Back Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up Public Enemy's Fight The Power Afrika Bambaataa's Looking For the Perfect Beat Steve Wonder's Signed, Sealed, Delivered Frederick Knight's I've Been Lonely For So Long The Four Tops' Bernadette Jerry Butler's Only The Strong Survive Wyclef Jean's Gone Till November --david cantwell
Re: Wilco's new horizon
Terry, your ELO premise is wrong. While the band's original records were equal, more or less, to crappy, pretentious, classical rock, the ELO period that Summerteeth is inarguably borowing from, and borrowing heavily--I say inarguably, because you only have to listen to A New World Record to hear the obvious similarities (see my ND review to get specifics) but also because Tweedy, as I've said before, has confirmed that ELO was one of the bubblegum sources Wilco itself heard in the record--is the late 70s period when the crappy and pretentious aspect gave way completely to a pure-pop approach. Perhaps that sound would be similarly dissed as slight and bubblegummy here but for sure, records like Face The Music, A New World Record and Out of The Blue were the antithesis of pretentious, classical rock. And, to my ears, the opposite of crappy too. But while ELO is clearly a major source here, the disc is not an ELO clone record--there's a lot of ELO contemporaneous stuff in there too (ABBA, Raspberries, Babys, etc etc etc) as well as more certain to be approved sources like solo Paul and John and Beach Boys and Big Star ya da ya da. Anyway, ELO sounds, arrangements and production approaches are always applied piecemeal and as needed, not duplicated outright. In other words, more than anything in regards to sound, Summerteeth understands one thing that solo John and Paul and Alex Chilton and Brian Wilson and Eric Carmen and so many other pop masters (Specter, Holland/Dozier/Holland, Leiber/Stoller, B. Sherrill, O. Bradley, Gamble Huff T. Bell, G. Martin and so on) have understood: great records are RECORDS--that is, studio creations--not just live performances. Hell though, influences are just one way of approaching the record; they certainly don't account for its artistic success. For example, for my money, ST destroys every album by ELO--which in its middle phase made a great deal of just fabulous pop music (and no, I'm not being ironic)--on a lyrical basis and is far more consistent musically too. But, then, that's not going to be too shocking to all those who would dismiss 70s pop out of hand anyway. --david cantwell
Re: Today is the 99th day of the 99th year:Tornadoes
At 09:32 PM 4/8/99 EDT, you wrote: Hadacol - Tornado Make that BIG Tornado by Hadacol, which reminds me of Porter Wagoner's Big Wind. --david cantwell
oops, oh shit, etc
That last post went to the wrong address. Sorry, ignore, blah blah blah. --dc
Re: Shania and music on cable tv
We have Music Choice here in KC, Terry, and if your set up's the same or similar, the definition of classic changes throughout the day. I tend to listen weekend mornings, if the Batman/Superman Adventures and Batman Beyond are reruns, and on Sat morns it's pretty much what you describe, but on Sun's it's your dream station. Of course, even that changes as the hours pass... --david cantwell 11:43 PM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: I finally snagged that cable TV music service, where you get 31 different musical genre selections. I wanted it mainly to have access to "classic country." But lo and behold, classic country these days isn't what it used to be (since the word "classic" in terms of music changes over time). Anyhow, during the half-hour I was listening, the station played such classics as 80s vintage Oak Ridge Boys, Gary Morris, Ronny McDowell, and Alabama. So my dreams of a station that only plays Tammy, George, Buck, Loretta, Merle -- or Hank, Ray, Johnny, and Hank -- went up in smoke. I switched to the blues station, which was just dandy. -- Terry Smith
Re: lowell fulson discographical info needed
Can't say definitively which came out first, but as for debuting on the RB chart, Tramp was first, entering the RB 100 on Jan 7th. Make A Little Love entered April 1. They climbed, respectively, to #5 and #20 RB, #52 and #97 pop. --david cantwell At 10:56 AM 4/7/99 EDT, you wrote: does anyone out there know which of lowell fulson's 1967 hits, "tramp" or "make a little love," came out first? more importantly, does anyone which was written first? fulson cowrote "tramp." a pair of other writers get credit for "make a little love." help! bill f-w
Re: instrumentally speaking
At 01:04 PM 3/9/99 -0600, Kelly wrote: See, now, and I thought the whole *point* of punk was to *not* be able to play well. I am not being facetious here. I thought the general punk stance was "F**k this elitist, bourgeois, closed music system. We're gonna play even though we don't know how, and maybe that'll turn the world of music on its ear, and even if it doesn't we'll have a good time with our mates making a whole lot of noise. Being all tied up in technique and knowing how to play is for wankers. Tear up everything." Well, that WAS part of the ideology of the thing. But one thing I'd say is that it's been a little bit overstated since then--that is, the point wasn't that you didn't have to know how to play your instrument but that you didn't have to know how to play the kinds of comparitively complex shit that, say, ELP played. Punk was three-chords simple, in other words, but it didn't necessarily reject basic competence. The other thing to note, of course, is that Steve Jones and Mick Jones and The Ramones and whoever else really could play their "simple" music pretty damn well, especially after their first albums when all that touring forced them to, uh, practice night after night. --david cantwell
Patsy Montana question
Hey all, time to pick your brains again. I know that Patsy Montana's I Want To Be A Cowboy's Sweetheart was based upon Stuart Hamblen's Texas Plains, and I know that before she adapted that song's melody and content for Sweetheart in 1934 she had been singing it as Montana Plains for quite some time. She may have even recorded it that way (is that true?). What I want to know though is, when she sang Montana Plains, did she just change Texas to Montana or did she change any of Hamblen's other words too??? Off list answers welcome if this is too boring... Thanks. --david cantwell
Re: THE DRAGON'S ROAR (fwd)
At 08:50 AM 3/2/99 -0800, Don wrote: My memory's a little shaky this morning, but isn't that the person who wrote a letter to ND rippin' into ol' Cantwell about his negative critique of Dwight's half-assed cover album? Just wonderin'.--don You are correct, sir! I never would've remembered that in a million years, Don, without you sending me back to look. And here I was going to attack that press release on its merits (She's going to tackle "REAL CW and roots music"? Oh come on, won't this silly distinction ever be discredited?; Cisco is "as physically charismatic as a young Elvis Presley"? Let's just say I'm dubious; and so on), but now that you've put me wise, I can instead just dismiss her column out of hand. After all, if she disagreed with me once, then she can't be up to anything very interesting... That last sentence was a joke, btw. Everybody knew that, right? Alright then... --david cantwell
Re: THE DRAGON'S ROAR (fwd)
At 11:37 AM 3/2/99 -0600, you wrote: You lost me there, David. Country may be roots music, but not all roots music is country. Why's her distinction silly? You're right, Bob, about roots and country. But I was referring to the distinction between REAL and unreal. --david cantwell NP: Kelly Willis' What I Deserve
Southern gospel (was Big Book)
At 12:32 PM 3/2/99 -0500, Jon wrote: True enough about the individual entries, but I'll argue back a little bit on the southern gospel thing; though there's no entry as such, there's some discussion in the entry under gospel music (written by Charles Wolfe). yeah I knew that. And it's better than nothing. But... Hey, I'm a southern gospel nut. I have heard that Wolfe, between bouts of illness, has been working on a history of southern gospel. That would great and much needed--Don Cusic's history, The Sound of Light, is the best I know of currently, but it's only half southern gospel. The other is black gospel, which is great but Anthony (?) Heilbut's The Gospel Sound pretty definitively covered that side of the tradition already. We need a southern gospel book, before the tradition's gone for good... --david cantwell
Re: Southern gospel
I knew about the web stuff already, but the rest of this is very good to hear, Shane. 'Round here in KC I can say that it's dying or dead, though I can still see references to shows down southern missouri way. Our only southern gospel tv show, on cable access, isn't around anymore, and the southern gospel radio station spends most of its day playing music that I, uh, wouldn't call REAL southern gospel (That'll make Bob happy! g). Addtionally, it just sounds soulless and over sung, like a lot of other contemporary christian stuff. Actually, I can't even tell the difference between what gets southern gospel there and the southern gospel I cut my teeth on. So maybe the SG tradition has changed into something I don't get or appreciate. Very possible. But anyway, what I meant, specifically, when I referred to someone getting it all down in a book before it's long gone was the quartet tradition of the Blackwoods, Statesmen, Florida Boys (who I know are still going strong), LeFevres, rambos, Oak Ridge, Kingsmen, etc. Is that still around down there? I know when I watch Gaither Gospel Series stuff on TNN, they usually feature just one or two of the old guys, who just break me up, then they turn it over to some young guy or gal for half an hour who oversings soulleslly, like a lot of contemporary christian Also: Given what I like, Shane, do you think the annual national quartet convention would let me down or lift me up? Is it worth checking out? --david cantwell
Re: THE DRAGON'S ROAR (fwd)
At 02:18 PM 3/2/99 -0600, Bob asked about distinctions between REAL and unreal country music: Well, but have you written this off as a question not worth exploring -- how far can a style be stretched and still be considered part of that style? No, I haven't written it off as a question altogether; I was just doubting that the question would be taken beyond a superficial level in that column, given that the expression looked to be code, as it typically is, for "hardcore" country (as if softshell isn't "real" country), or older styles of country (as if HNC wasn't "real" country) or simply "country that I like" (which is no help at all, at least in regards to what's "real" or not). --david cantwell
Re: Big Book of Country Music
At 03:30 PM 3/2/99 -0500, Mr. "I have to go to my brother's jazz festival instead of twangfest" Smith wrote: Thanks for some of you guys' input on this book. I sort of figured you wouldn't be too thrilled about it, those of you who take a tolerant view of pop influences on country music. Well, actually, my objection with the book is not his tastes--I can weed that out--but his knowledge: he gets tons of stuff just plain wrong, which makes the book virtually (I'm being generous) useless as a resource. If remember right, there was a JCM review years back that went through the Big Book error by error. It was a very long review. --david cantwell
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
At 04:40 PM 3/2/99 PST, John K. wrote: I never thought I'd be glad to hear "These Boots Are Made For Walking" again until I heard Candye Kane reinvent it on her CD. My favorite version of this song is Loretta Lynn's. And she don't do it campy, neither--I mean, she is all but out the door! --david cantwell
Re: very long piece
Since I'm one of the lucky few who Jacob had shared this with, I can give my estimation of the piece right now: one of best, smartest, most insightful music pieces I've ever read. Period. --david cantwell
RE: Jeff Lynne
At 10:22 AM 3/1/99 -0500, the Slonedog wrote: Hey did anybody see the review of Wilco's new one "Summerteeth" that cites ELO as a possible influence? Does anyone else who has heard the album agree? Well I do, but then I wrote the review so that don't mean nothing. I should say though that this "possible influence" has been comfirmed by Tweedy himself. A friend of mine, Danny Alexander, writing for the radio trade Totally Adult, asked Tweedy at my request (this is from memory but I think I'm very close to word for word here; I can look it up if necessary): "A friend of mine said the first thing he heard when he listened to Summer Teeth was ELO?" To which Tweedy replied, in what Danny described to me as "an almost reverent tone": "Oh yeah, we heard that in there too. We *loved* ELO." (Tweedy's emphasis, not mine or Danny's) Of course, it's not like any of us could have listened to the record and doubted their ELO jones for one second, but there it is... Where do I sign up for the Jeff Lynne fan club again? I can't get down with Discovery, but Face The Music, A New World Record, and Out Of the Blue? Mmmm, mmm that's some good pop music! --david cantwell NP: Julianna Raye's Something Peculiarl produced by Jeff Lynne
Re: Dan Mesh Mike Ireland
At 08:44 AM 2/28/99 -0500, you wrote: What does Mike play when it's just a duo? Another guitar or his usual bass? When I saw him and Dan out, Mike played an acoustic bass mostly, but I noticed he also had his "usual" electric bass set up behind him (though it went unused that night). On a few songs he sang only, and he may have switched to a guitar on a number or two, I forget. One obvious thing about this set up is that it really shows off Mike's voice, but another strength is that it really showcases Dan more than ever before--and he's fantastic. Like David Rawlings with Gillian Welch, Dan isn't just strumming behind Mike here, he's a complete partner: Mike Ireland AND Dan Mesh. Great stuff, I thought... --david cantwell
RE: Dan Mesh Mike Ireland
At 05:37 PM 2/27/99 -0500, Jon answered the query about Dan Mesh: He's the member of Holler that's still playing gigs with Mike. Which, unless Mike's completed the hiring process, would make Dan Holler g. Yeah, Dan is Holler's rhythm guitarist, and only current member. I heard M D play as a duo on what, I think, was their first time out, about a month or so ago, and all I can say is: Go see these two if they come your way. If you liked the songs and the singing on the disc, but struggled with the occasionally lush arrangements, then here's your chance to hear the songs and the voice stripped naked. And if you liked those original settings, here's your chance to experience the songs reimagined. --david cantwell
RE: George Jones' phrasing (was Gag reflex)
At 05:01 PM 2/25/99 -0500, Jon wrote: Jones has said (though it will take me a while to find just where, David g) that he was influenced by bluegrass Oh you don't need to look. He's said it everywhere, over and over: as a youngun' he worshipped the Opry stars, and that meant Acuff and Monroe. BTW, I've read the Bob Allen bio that Deborah (?) recomended, I just forgot that part was in there. Allen's book ain't so hot--it wants to be new journalismy, like a Hellfire or Your Cheatin' Heart, and it falls somewhere between--but it sure as hell beats Ragged But Right, which was by, I think, Dolly Carlisle. --david cantwell
RE: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
At 02:41 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Jon wrote: Yes, thinking about how to sell records shapes the making of them, but it generally does so in a more imprecise way; when you get in the studio, you want to make the best record you can given existing constraints, whether that's the lack of a piece of equipment you'd like to use, or the recognition that if you don't come up with something that's going to sell, you're not going to get another chance. Back in the day this last item was especially powerful, I'd guess. You know, this whole contemporary ability for an artist to deliberately make an uncommericial record (I don't WANT lots of people to hear my records, and I sure as hell don't want a lot of people to LIKE them!) is, in the main, a pretty recent option. Punk? Post punk? Whatever. Bobby Bare, for all practical purposes, even assuming that he didn't like Atkins' production (and I have no reason to believe anything other than that he liked the records he made very much), couldn't have chosen a less radio friendly approach if he'd wanted. Not if he wanted to keep making records or, like, pay his rent. Of course, even with that decision out of the way, there were still an infinite number of artistic choices left to be decided --david cantwell
Red Foley
Speaking of those damn no good country pop singers, I was wondering if anyone knows of a good Foley collection on disc. Thanks. --david cantwell
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
Hey Terry, no matter how far down I scrolled on your last post, I couldn't find your usual PS. Did you forget? No one packs more into a PS than you do, and they're usually the most interesting points made by anyone all day. --david cantwell PS: Mike Ireland finished tied for #241 on the Pazz Jop list. Woo hoo! PPS: Shit, if only I'd voted this year, Learning How To Live could've cracked the top two hundred and twenty, and I mean EASY. Oh well...
Re: Hyper produced HANK SNOW!
At 12:29 PM 2/23/99 -0500, Terry asked: Isn't there a sound aesthetic argument for arranging "gritty" songs in a "gritty" fashion, and giving urbane lyricizing a glossier finish? Sure there is. But there's also an aesthetic argument for providing a contrast between gritty lyrics and "sweet" sounds (as on the new Wilco, for example). Art's about choices--if there's a "correct" arrangement for a particular kind of song, then the choice is removed and the art of the thing's removed too. Hmm. Do I believe that? I dunno... Jon wrote: Uh, actually, the arrangement flows pretty directly from Hank Snow's (Bare's is from 1964, Snow's from 1960) except that the chorus is even more up-front on Snow's. And how! Snow's version is a good case, in fact, of a gritty lyric holding up better than a less gritty arrangement, like Bare's. Those singers adding at the front "Dark old cave, Miller's cave," just dripping in echo, as well as that "Miller, Miller, Miller's Cave" between the verses, really helps build the tension in Snow's classic version. Bare recites the last verse, but the way Snow exagerates his croon on "both you and DAVEY"--it's really sarcastic and creepy. I love it. My dad turned me on to Snow's Miller's Cave when I was a kid. I still have my old man's 1966 copy of The Best of Hank Snow, where on the back I wrote next to Miller's Cave, in my grade school handwriting: "Dyn-O-mite!" . Guess that dates ME pretty well, huh? g I adore Snow's music. Does anyone know how his health is? Does anyone have a mini review to offer up of his long-ass autobiography? --dc
Re: 50/90
At 08:09 AM 2/23/99 -0600, Jim wrote: I agree with Dina, although I've heard a lot more than she has. It seems like standard rock-crit snobbery (is that a word? g) that most of the general public just ignores. I would have put a Steve Earle or Dave Alvin record in there, instead of Jimmie Gilmore (which I don't think holds up too well over the years) If what most of the general public ignores is how we determine rock crit snobbery, then it seems to me that the Jimmie Dale pick would be more populist, less elitist, than the Alvin you propose, since I'm betting that Gilmore has outsold him by a long shot. The same may be true of Earle too, though that's also just a guess--more likely, at least in in terms of appreciation by the general public, Earle and Gilmore are equally snobby picks. I think you're right, though, Jim--Earle (I Feel Alright) and maybe Alvin (Blue Blvd.) get in way before Gilmore. Guess I'm a snobby critic! g Lance wrote: And it's not that it isn't eclectic, but in quite a few cases, the guy picks the wrong album from whatever artist he's trying to highlight. (PJ Harvey "To Bring You My Love" and Beck "Odelay" come immediately to mind). Depends on what is trying to be proven. If something new is the thing, then PJ's Rid Of Me, I guess, and Beck's Mellow Gold might be better picks. But as for arguments that this has been a great decade for music, which is what the article's title described, then I'd say Kot got it exactly, and pretty obviously, right. Plus, let's face it: If you have 50 goddamn chances to pick Anodyne and you come up with the goose-egg--get to the back of the bus, ya chump!! Well, I agree you gotta pick a Tupelo--and Anodyne's awfully damn good; I won't argue against it--but I'd go with Still Feel Gone myself. --david cantwell
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
At 02:54 PM 2/23/99 -0500, Terry wrote: Uh, oh, the big guns are out now. David, Joe and Jon all weighed in, more or less saying that whatever arrangement is chosen is A-OK as long as it sells records. Geez, did I say that? I don't think so. I said a contrast between lyrics and sound is sometimes a valid artistic choice. ps ...I'm talking about artistic choices, not financial calculations. Yeah, me too. g --david cantwell
Re: Hyper produced Bobby Bare
At 07:52 PM 2/23/99 -0600, Bob, who is too smart to be anything to but joking here, wrote: I think you're both right. The Nashville Sound has little to do with country music. It was a way for country musicians to stay employed. But they weren't making country music. It was just *marketed* as country music. The kinda short answer: Most of the musicians, producers, songwriters, and country fans who made and loved those records would, of course, disagree. The very short answer: Puh-lease. --david cantwell PS: And, at any rate, I thought everybody here always said it was *marketed* as POP music. You know, like that outlaw shit... g
RE: Garth plays ball (was:Buckner, free agent status?)
At 08:39 PM 2/12/99 -0500, JW wrote of the Sultan of Schlock: I'll bet he's no Jim Reeves on the diamond. Or Charley Pride neither. --dc
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
At 09:04 AM 2/11/99 -0800, Donald wrote: I like Mike just fine -- particularly from "I Want You Back" through Thriller, which is a mighty long stretch of time. The bubblegum soul of the J5 always puts a smile on my face, and jesus, that kid could sing. Furthermore, I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don You should be up on Lance's coffee talbe, Don, not mine. Over here at our place, Off the Wall and Thriller are obvious classics, just marvelous pop-dance records that every serious record collection should include, filed right next to (at the very least) a J5 greatest hits set. --david cantwell
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
At 11:40 AM 2/11/99 -0800, the Iceman wrote of MiJack and others: I would rank him as one of the three most influentail black artists of the last 20 years. The others would be Stevie Wonder who just plain never ceases to amaze me. The third one would be his royal pain in the ass over- egoed TAFKAP (the artist formerly known as Prince). No argument on Prince and MiJack, but Stevie's great period would be well over 20 years ago wouldn't it? I mean, from Fingertips to Talking Book and Innervisions through Songs in the Key Of Life only takes us up to, like, 1976. He's had moments in the last 20 years (Hotter Than July comes to mind) but it's definatly not his A stuff. Could we agree on this: one of the most influential, and best, artists of the entire rock and soul era? for the entire century? But not the last 20 years. --david cantwell
Re: soul, etc
At 10:36 AM 2/2/99 -0600, good ol' Stormin' Soron wrote: I'm not disagreeing, David, and I'm not putting words in your mouth, but this seems to me to be a heartbeat away from the commercial assumption that, if it sells well, it must be good. I guess I'm saying it doesn't work EITHER direction--commerical success doesn't mean music will suck, and it doesn't mean it will be great either. Though if we look back through the history of American pop, it's important to remember most of what gets heralded as great was also popular--which is exactly what it was trying like hell to be. I think "entire" and "resounding" are too strong for what you are saying. I mean the "entire" not to refer every single single ever put out, hardly, but to mean every part of the American popular musical tradition. And resounding, from where I sit, probably isn't strong enough. --david cantwell PS: I don't know about Jerry Curry's record collection, but MINE sure is good! g
Re: Motown stuff
At 11:47 AM 2/2/99 -0600, about Marvin Gaye's Here My Dear, Lance wrote: Wasn't "Here, My Dear" Marvin's alimony "settlement" to his ex-wife? If so, I could see how he may have been less-than-inspired to create anything more than a toss-off. Not that it excuses it mind you, but it does make for interesting context. It was part of the alimony deal, at least as I recall, but it was also just a very angry and vindictive and honest and (often) beautiful way of getting back at a spouse and dealing with a divorce. I think marvin would've argued--and many others have definately done so-- that this situation created more inspiration in him, not less. He certainly didn't intend it as a toss off, as even a casual listen to this lush and intricate double album will attest. --david cantwell
Re: wilco
At 01:12 PM 2/2/99 EST, Neil wrote: I'm not sure I'd call it more mellow. I think the real difference is that the guitars and twang are mostly removed in favor of pianos. If pianos = more mellow, than so be it. There's still plenty pop, that's for sure. I agree, mellow is hardly a word I'd use to describe the new album, not lyrically or in terms of the sound. You're probably right, though, about the reason why it'd get called that--pianos instead of guitars, so of course it MUST be mellow. Oh brother... --dc
Re: soul, etc
At 03:13 AM 1/29/99 -0500, Tera wrote: You guys are all the samesheesh! gActually, there probably wouldn't have been a Motown without Stax or Chess. I can see, I guess, how we might argue that Chess paved the way for Motown in that it proved there was a crossover market for black artists (Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley), but if that's what you mean, why not also include King or Imperial and whoever else? More to the point, though, how is it that, without Stax, "there probably wouldn't have been a Motown"? In truth, the two labels followed almost eerily simultaneous paths to success. However, if we have to choose a chicken or egg here, it's clearly Motown that came first, not Stax. If our standard is which label released the first single, then Motown wins: Smokey and the Miracles' "Way Over There" came out on Tamla the summer of 1959. Stax's first release (actually called Satelite at the time) was The Veltones' "Fool In Love" from September, '59. If instead our standard is first chart hit, then Motown squeaks out another victory. Smokey's "Shop Around" debuted on the RB chart in Dec. of '60 (on its way to number one and number two pop) while Stax and Carla Thomas didn't chart until Feb.of '61 with Gee Whiz (and didn't do quite so well there either: #5 RB, #10 pop). Elsewhere, Tera said: You could probably say the same of Elvis Presley who took a "rb" image concept and transferred it to rockabilly. This seems off. Presley fused country and rb to create rockabilly, not rb and rockabilly to create...what? (In fact, without rb in the first place, how do you even get rockabilly, let alone transfer rb back to it?) Do I like Motown? Hell yes! Indeed, catalogue to catalogue, and with a gun to my head, I'd prefer its output to Stax's, though barring the gun I don't really see any need to choose. I will, however, give a shout out to Gamble and Huff and Philly International (the O'Jays, Harold Melvin, etc.) which I will proclaim loudly as my favorite of all the great soul labels. Especially if we can include the work that Philly house arranger Thom Bell was doing, simultaeously, with the Spinners and Stylistics at Atlantic (and for that matter, what Philly Int.'s other arranger, Bobby Martin, was doing with the Manhattans at Columbia) then to my taste the more general term, Philly Soul, describes the best there ever was. --david
Seagram: D-Day
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:16:03 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Melissa Blazek) Subject: Seagram: D-Day [Los Angeles Times] Friday, January 22, 1999 A M Records Closes; Geffen Lays Off 110 Jobs: Seagram's actions end an era and underscore changes in the music business. By ROBERT HILBURN, GEOFF BOUCHER, CHUCK PHILIPS, Times Staff Writers [A]fter 37 years of spinning out hits by such acts as Cat Stevens, the Police and Sheryl Crow, A M Records closed its doors Thursday--firing nearly 170 employees who were given the day to pack and leave. hugged in the parking lot as weeping employees carried boxes of personal belongings to their cars. Above them, the A M sign was draped with a black band and the flag flew at half staff, to commemorate, fired workers said, the death of the historic Hollywood record label. Those fired at A M were among nearly 500 employees cut in Los Angeles and New York by Seagram Co. as part of a massive restructuring that will eliminate thousands of music industry jobs worldwide. Two miles down the road, Geffen Record employees stripped the walls of gold records and carried boxes down Sunset Boulevard past the label's headquarters after being notified that they too no longer had jobs. About 110 Geffen employees were fired. Signaling an end to an era in the Los Angeles music scene, the layoffs underscore the changing economics and direction of the music business as Seagram, which recently completed its $10.4-billion acquisition of PolyGram, combines two of the world's biggest record conglomerates. At their peaks, A M and Geffen represented the commercial and artistic potential of independent labels, which have been the proving ground for scores of musicians whose talents and vision did not fit into more mainstream labels. But both labels began losing autonomy after they were bought up during the last decade by conglomerates PolyGram and MCA. Changes Alarm Some Critics Some industry critics are alarmed at the changes. With power concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the danger, they fear, is that there will be no room left for the independent spirit that helped build such legendary independent labels as Atlantic, Motown, Island, A M and Geffen. Among the artists launched by A M and Geffen alone: Cat Stevens, the Police, Nirvana, the Carpenters, Joe Cocker, Beck and Guns 'N Roses.
Johnny Rodrieguz
Does anyone out there know the details of Johnny's recent murder conviction? The little details that have been available via Blue Chip have made it all sound very weird. If anyone knows of a way to get to local newspaper accounts or anything at all, I would appreciate it very much. --david cantwell
Re: Johnny Rodrieguz
At 04:42 PM 1/20/99 EST, you wrote: he hasn't been convicted. yet. he has been indicted, and was supposed to show up for a court hearing yesterday. he's presently out on a $50,000 bond. Yes, that's right, my very big mistake. If anyone hears anything else, though, please pass it along. --david cantwell
