[FWD] RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame?
I am forwarding this answer from Karen Crook to Don Clarke to the list because it bounced for being too long. This, despite me asking for extraneous stuff to be cut from the bottom of messages. Bounced mail goes to my old address (I haven't figured out how to change that yet) so this is a little out of date. (In more ways than one.) Trudy From: "Karen Crook" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:35:28 +1100 Reconciliation is where we take away all the specific subsidies and start giving to people for credit of their situations rather than race. There are all colours out there on the streets homeless, on drugs or drinking too much Does that mean that we would also take away subsidies from farmers, mining conglomerates, special 'isolation' subsidies, HECS subsidies for students, single parent subsidies, parental allowance subsidies, day care subsidies, the car industry subsidies, the subsidies to the arts and tax breaks, special allowances and tax breaks for industries to keep their businesses in certain areas, unemployment benefits to those who have the money to support themselves, pensioner subsidies, special shipping allowances, the subsidies for foodstuffs and other items that are given to isolated areas, private schools - I could go on ad infinitum. Many of these subsidies are not given to people 'for credit of their situations' as you put it. But just you try to do that Karen. There would be lynch mobs at your house - mainly from upper-middle class socio-economic mums and dads, rich industrialists, rich cow-cockies and parents of kids from rich schools. In fact I would like to see that happen. I believe that indigenous peoples would actually get more - and many deserve more. No because as I said, they should only be receiving it for their particular circumstance, and these subsidies are for particular circumstance which assist people! ** But just you try to do that Karen. Like I'm a real threat!! *** I believe that indigenous peoples would actually get more - and many deserve more. Then tell me how does an Aboriginal woman of about 50yrs old with all adult children living away from home, working for the Government in a very well-paid job get a financial grant to compete in a government sporting competition in another State and then stay at a 5 star hotel I personally know this woman and she told me this herself. And the excuses used on the application also were over-rated and exaggerated - also admitted to by herself. She just thought what the hell, they'll give me the money. How is this fair? She has a great job, like the rest of us, yet received well over $1,500 to attend. It's not like she couldn't afford to go herself if she'd saved. If you can't go, you can't go-just like everyone else. But not all of us can just apply for the funds! See, it is this sort of thing that causes people such as myself to get disheartened by unfairness. People using their colour for advantage and then crying foul about racism. It's hypocrisy at its best. ** The people who are stopping Australia from being 'Australian' are the non-Aboriginal people who still treat indigenous peoples as second class citizens. Australia should be one nation (no pun intended) but it will never be so until the dominant culture comes to term with its own inbuilt racism and realises that ALL should be given a fair go. It is your culture that is saying this land is 'ours' and not yours. What about those Aboriginals who bash their children, rape their wives and daughters, drink themselves into oblivion, kill one another and disrespect their own people by hurting one another? They treat themselves as second class citizens sometimes and make their situations even worse by doing this. I do not agree with any sort of violence or bad treatment and find this appalling. So don't go blaming non-Aboriginals because there is plenty of second class treatment happening from within. So exactly what do you mean by being given a fair go? * Try telling that to any black person who dares to venture out of his neighbourhood. Try telling that to a black kid who is going to visit a friend who lives in Double Bay in NSW, who is walking along the street to his friends and is pulled up three times by the police who question what he is doing there. Would a white kid get the same treatment? Try also telling that to the women who are too afraid of walking out on the street after dark, even just for exercise, because of the fear of rape by a man or groups of men regadless of colour. Maybe the police question them three times because they know him, or his friends or he's acting suspicious. When did you ever wear a police uniform? If they didn't ask and something happened the public would be down their throat for not protecting the community! It's a catch-22 situation
[recoznet2] UN race committee 'biased' on sentencing
THE AGE UN race committee 'biased' on sentencing By BRENDAN NICHOLSON . POLITICAL REPORTER Sunday 26 March 2000 The Federal Government says there is no point in the United Nations race relations committee visiting Australia because it is clearly biased. Late on Friday the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination said it viewed with grave concern the mandatory sentencing laws operating in Western Australia and the Northern Territory, and urged the Federal Government to review them. The committee said the laws discriminated against indigenous Australians and conflicted with the UN conventions on human rights. The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission has urged the committee to visit Australia but CERD's representative responsible for Australian matters, US human rights lawyer Ms Gay McDougall, said it was unlikely without the Australian Government's blessing. The Attorney-General, Mr Daryl Williams, told The Sunday Age he saw little point in the committee coming unless it changed its approach significantly. "That issue has been raised before and if the committee continues to have an unbalanced approach there would be no point in its coming to Australia," Mr Williams said. The Government would certainly not act on the committee's concerns until it brought down a report that was unbiased and balanced. He said it was likely that Australia would make representations to the UN about the committee's approach. The committee had no power to take action, Mr Williams said. The best it could do was to give an opinion. "That will not have any effect at all except the negative publicity it will bring." The committee was not well resourced and largely relied on the views of individual committee members, some of them from countries with shocking human rights records, Mr Williams said. But federal Liberal backbencher Dr Brendan Nelson said the UN report should not be ignored. Dr Nelson, who served on a Senate committee that examined mandatory sentencing, told Sky TV: "I don't think we should ever ignore what the United Nations says." The Opposition Leader, Mr Kim Beazley, said the mandatory sentencing was "Dickensian" and he urged the Federal Government to overturn the laws. Greens Senator Bob Brown said the UN report left the Federal Government with no choice but to override the WA and NT mandatory sentencing laws. -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Time to set record straight on Aboriginal corporations: minister
ABC News Sun, 26 Mar 2000 8:29 AEDT Time to set record straight on Aboriginal corporations: minister A former Uniting Church minister from the Northern Territory says it is about time the Australian public was made more aware of the results of a review of Aboriginal corporations. Jim Dowling says when the Coalition Government was first elected four years ago, it attacked ATSIC and implied that most Aboriginal corporations were rorting the system. He says that impression has stayed with many people. But Dr Dowling says an independent review found differently. "It stated that 95 per cent of the Aboriginal bodies were doing the right thing; now that would match any white organisation," he said. "Five per cent had difficulties and he put it down to remoteness, confusion about our system and very few wrong-doings." © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [FWD] Concluding Observations by CERD
This is *very* strong language for the UN! Forwarded from Christine Howes: The following list gives a summary of the final observations of CERD. The numbers in parenthesis refers to the paragraph numbers in the full report. (which is below the summary ch) CONCLUDING OBSERVATIONS ON AUSTRALIA BY CERD (COMMITTEE ON THE ELIMINATION OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION) 56th session, 6 -24 March 2000 Summary List of Concerns and Recommendations CONCERNS The absence of any entrenched guarantee in law against racial discrimination (6) The national responsibility to comply with treaties, including compliance by States (7) Reduction of rights for Aboriginals in State regimes¹ on Native Title (8) Unsatisfactory response to CERD Decisions 2(54) 2(55) on Native Title laws (9) ATSIC capacities to address the issues of Indigenous Peoples (11) HREOC capacities to address the issues of Indigenous Peoples (11) Loss of confidence by the Indigenous community in the process of reconciliation (12) Government refusal to apologise for separation of Aboriginal families (13) Government refusal to compensate for separation of Aboriginal families (13) Rates of Aboriginal incarceration (15) Lack of interpreter services (15) Seriously questions whether mandatory sentencing¹ complies with the convention (16) The extent of inequality still experienced by the Aboriginal population (18) RECOMMENDATIONS Close scrutiny to be given to any proposed ³State regime¹ on Native Title (8) Full information on Native Title compliance be in the next Periodic Report to CERD (9) Report from the Parliamentary enquiry (on race discrimination) be sent to CERD (10) Reconsider any proposed changes to ATSIC or HREOC that limits their capacity (11) There be effective leadership to ensure meaningful reconciliation (12) Government address the harm caused by separation of Aboriginal families (13) Government withdraw its reservation to Article 4(a) re racial hatred laws (14) Government increase its efforts to address socio-economic marginalisation (15) Government increase its efforts to address discriminatory law enforcement (15) Government increase its efforts to address the insufficient diversionary programs (15) All mandatory sentencing¹ laws be reviewed by the Australian Government(16) Government implement faithfully¹ the 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees (17) More funds be given to eradicate social/economic/cultural disparities in a short time (18) Reports to CERD and findings be widely available to the public (19) The next Periodic Report, due 30 October 2000, address the present obervations (20) * COMMITTEE ON THE ELIMINATION Future: CERD/C/56/CRP OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION CERD/C/56/Misc.42/rev.3 56th session 24 March 2000 6-24 March 2000UNEDITED VERSION Concluding Observations by the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination Australia 1.The Committee considered the tenth, eleventh and twelfth periodic reports of Australia, submitted as one document (CERD/C/335/Add.2), at its 1393rd, 1394th and 1395th meetings (CERD/C/SR/1393, 1394 and 1395), held on 21 and 22 March 2000. At its 1398th meeting, held on 24 March 2000, it adopted the following concluding observations. A. Introduction 2.The Committee welcomes the reports submitted by the State party and the additional oral and written information provided by the delegation, while regretting the late submission of the tenth and eleventh periodic reports. Appreciation is expressed for the comprehensiveness of the report and of the oral presentation. The Committee has been encouraged by the attendance of a high-ranking delegation and expresses its appreciation for the constructive responses of its members to the questions asked. 3.The Committee acknowledges that the State party has addressed some of the concerns and recommendations of the Committee¹s concluding observations on the ninth periodic report (A/49/18, paras. 535-551). B. Positive aspects 4.The Committee is encouraged by the attention given by the State party to its obligations under the Convention and to the work of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. 5. The Committee notes with appreciation the many measures adopted by the State party during the period under review (1992-98) in the area of racial discrimination, including those adopted to implement the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. The Committee welcomes the numerous legislative measures, institutional arrangements, programmes and policies that focus on racial discrimination, as comprehensively detailed in the tenth, eleventh and twelfth reports of Australia, including the launching of a ³New Agenda for Multicultural Australia² and the implementation of the ³Living in Harmony² initiative. C. Concerns and recommendations 6.The Committee
[recoznet2] [Fwd: Oh Dear, Our Colonial Cringe is Exposed...]
Original Message Subject: Oh Dear, Our Colonial Cringe is Exposed... Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:27:35 +0800 From: "Jim Duffield" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/25/pageone/pageone10.html PAGE ONE Sometimes it's not easy being grey Philip Ruddock's conscience had him in hot water this week when he attempted to defend the Government's record on race. Simon Mann in Geneva and Mike Seccombe report. The language of United Nations' deliberations, in myriad committee rooms and marbled corridors, can be excessively courteous. Almost suffocatingly so. Outsiders can sometimes miss the subtext. You might have expected Philip Ruddock, however, to understand the nuances. He is a very nuanced politician. His every word is chosen with care, every pronouncement carefully qualified so he gives nothing away. Where other politicians paint issues in black and white, with Ruddock it's always shades of grey. He's a grey man, a politician with a bureaucrat's abhorrence of confrontation and a lawyer's capacity for obfuscation. It has kept him out of trouble, and the limelight, for 27 years, and helped make him the longest serving member of the House of Representatives. But Ruddock's diplomacy let him down in Geneva this week. Routinely, members of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination thanked the minister for his attendance, welcoming Australia's "frank and candid" reporting on injustices. But the welcomes were heavily qualified by a long list of concerns about race discrimination issues, particularly those affecting Aborigines such as native title, the "stolen generation" and the mandatory sentencing provisions of Western Australia and the Northern Territory. One Geneva-based human rights observer remarked: "I think the committee is resolved on this matter. It's one thing for Australia to come here and acknowledge that injustices exist. But the committee concerns itself with remedies. What concrete steps is Australia taking to eliminate those injustices?" It was clear towards the end of the 56th session of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination that Mr Ruddock's attempts to placate the 18 international experts with blandishments did not convince anyone that the Government was doing anything of substance to address their various concerns. Some privately accused him of ducking the issues. And his delivery, at times, was thought patronising. A casual query from Mr Agha Shahi about why Australia's Pakistani community was absent from a breakdown of the multinational population got the reply that it was a "top 10" list. Then Ruddock added, to audible groans in the public gallery: "I know many [Pakistanis] well." "Some of his best friends are Aborigines, too," grumbled one observer later. The irony is, Ruddock would have been sincere. He is vitally interested in immigration and multiculturalism, a mainstay of Amnesty International in the Parliament. In 1988 he crossed the floor to reaffirm that Australia's immigration policy would take no account of race. In doing so he defied John Howard, whose policy would have taken account of racial mix. BUT these days Ruddock often seems a liberal of the type once described by poet Robert Frost as "a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel". In the quarrel over mandatory sentencing of juveniles, Ruddock's personal views accord with the UN committee's. He would see it abolished. But he is "broadminded" enough also to consider other factors: Cabinet solidarity, States' rights, the mood of the party room, the mood of the electorate. Defending something he doesn't believe in, he defended badly. He was clumsy with protocol. He referred to the expert committee members as if they were country delegates. They are not. He thanked the US human rights lawyer serving as rapporteur, Gay McDougall, for her summation of key, unresolved issues, noting
[recoznet2] Unbelievable!!
GOVT RULES OUT INTERVENTION From AAP 25mar00 The federal Government has firmly ruled out overriding mandatory sentencing laws and says it's lodged a formal complaint with the United Nations over its damning report on race relations in Australia. Federal Attorney-General Daryl Williams says the report by the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) was completely unbalanced. Mr Williams says the report, which was released last night in Geneva, failed to make any reference to Australian government representation. While the government has concern about the impact of mandatory sentencing on juveniles, particularly in the Northern Territory, he says it's addressing those issues domestically. He says the damning United Nations report on mandatory sentencing laws calls the author's credibility into question. The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination says mandatory sentencing laws discriminate against indigenous Australians and conflict with UN conventions on human rights. In draft observations issued in Geneva, the committee listed 13 concerns, including high incarceration rates of Aborigines and amendments to native title laws. It also made 15 recommendations, including that the federal government override Northern Territory and Western Australian laws if necessary. But Mr Williams says the committee should reconsider its report. He's told ABC radio the committee should reconsider its report and take a more balanced view. Philip Ruddock, the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Reconciliation, also rejected the report, saying the report was not a fair and accurate view of Australia's performance. But federal opposition leader Kim Beazley says the UN was responsible for making judgements about human rights across the world and Australians sign up to that role. *** Override sentencing laws: Melham From AAP 25mar00 OPPOSITION Aboriginal Affairs spokesman Daryl Melham says the federal Government should override mandatory sentencing laws to save Australia's international reputation. The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has said mandatory sentencing laws discriminate against indigenous Australians and conflict with UN conventions on human rights. They've issued a report calling on the government to override the laws. Mr Melham says the report is factual and balanced and makes well-founded criticisms of incarceration rates of indigenous Australians and of native title laws. He says the government has no choice but to override the laws in the face of the country's diminishing reputation abroad. Mr Melham says it's hypocritical for the government to have intervened and overturned euthanasia laws but not mandatory sentencing laws. He says it costs the Australian taxpayer $120,000 a year for every juvenile jailed and $60,000 for every adult. *** Don't ignore UN report: Nelson From AAP 25mar00 LIBERAL MP Brendan Nelson says a damning United Nations report critical of mandatory sentencing laws shouldn't be ignored. Dr Nelson, the head of a Senate Inquiry Committee for Mandatory Sentencing, has told Sky TV the UN should never be ignored. The UN's top race committee last night issued a report which called on the federal government to review mandatory sentencing laws in Western Australia and the Northern Territory. The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination said mandatory sentencing laws discriminated against indigenous Australians and conflicted with the UN conventions on human rights. Dr Nelson says it shouldn't take a report from the United Nations to show that mandatory sentencing is wrong. He says the report will put a little bit more pressure on the territorial government to work at the social and economic reasons behind juvenile crime. He says the issue of why youths turn to crime should be researched. -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Fewer Aborigines face jail, Ruddock tells UN
The only other minister who can look so benign while lying so outrageously is Robert Hill. I think Howard's choice of Ruddock as the man responsible for reconciliation illustrates very clearly what Howard's real position on reconciliation is. Trudy The Sydney Morning Herald Fewer Aborigines face jail, Ruddock tells UN Date: 24/03/00 By SIMON MANN, Herald Correspondent in Geneva The Immigration Minister, Mr Ruddock, was not convinced by the United Nations that mandatory sentencing would increase the jailing of indigenous Australians. He said Aborigines were less represented in property offences than some other sectors of the community and the burden of proof in cases that carried a mandatory jail sentence would be greater than in other criminal proceedings. "It is not unreasonable to assume that mandatory sentencing will probably lead to Aboriginals being less represented in incarceration than they would have otherwise been," he said. But in Canberra yesterday, the Attorney-General, Mr Williams, contradicted Mr Ruddock. Asked whether mandatory sentencing hurt Aborigines in particular, Mr Williams said: "Well the fact is - and it's widely documented - that the indigenous people are overrepresented proportionately in the criminal justice system, and on that basis the impact on them is proportionately greater." Facing a second day of grilling by the Geneva-based Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, Mr Ruddock said Australia's Federal system made it difficult for Canberra to trample the States over mandatory sentencing. "I'm not offering to defend it because my Prime Minister has said he personally does not favour mandatory sentencing." Committee members have been questioning Mr Ruddock and senior Australian officials on a range of indigenous issues including native title amendments, the "stolen generation" and inequalities in housing, education and health. The 18-member committee has combined an "urgent" investigation of Australia with the presentation of the Federal Government's routine two-yearly report on efforts to combat racial discrimination. Last year, the committee put Australia "on notice" because of concerns that Canberra was breaching its international treaty obligations on human rights. This meant that Australia was the first Western signatory to the convention to be called before the committee to explain itself. The blemish has bracketed Australia with countries such as Algeria, Bosnia, Rwanda and Yugoslavia. Mr Ruddock declined an invitation from one of the committee members, Egypt's Mr Mahmoud Aboul-Nasr, to apologise for past injustices to Aborigines. Instead, he outlined measures taken by the Government to acknowledge the "hurt and trauma" of past practices. Later, Mrs Gay McDougall, the Washington-based human rights lawyer who monitors Australia on behalf of the committee, took issue with Mr Ruddock on the difficulties facing legislators in a federalist system. "The issue of States' rights has been a perpetual issue in my country," she told him. "It's one we fought a bloody civil war over ... over whether States were free to engage in the abhorrent practice of slavery." Mr Ruddock interjected: "I think I would have fought for that, too." Mrs McDougall replied: "Yes, I would hope that you would have been on the same side as me." This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Warm reception for Burke!
NT leader jeered over sentencing laws Source: AAP | Published: Friday March 24, 11:15 AM Northern Territory Chief Minister Denis Burke was berated by demonstrators as he entered an attorneys-general conference in Melbourne set to consider a motion condemning his mandatory sentencing laws. A photographer was knocked over in the crush as protesters yelled 'how many lives' and 'where's your soul' right in Burke's face. Earlier about a dozen demonstrators dressed in mourning black laid out biscuits, pencils and cans of food to reflect the stolen items which landed two NT Aborigines in jail under the Territory's tough mandatory sentencing laws. Today's meeting in Melbourne of the standing committee of attorneys-general will consider a Victorian motion condemning the mandatory sentencing laws of the Territory and WA. The sponsor of the motion, Victorian Attorney-General Rob Hulls today described the laws as 'immoral, unethical and racist.' Burke was the last of the ministers to run the protesters gauntlet receiving by far the angriest reception. Australia's chief law officers will today also consider another Victorian motion to join in legal action to recover costs of smoking related health care from cigarette manufacturers. -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] UN continues to question mandatory sentencing
UN continues to question mandatory sentencing Source: AAP | Published: Thursday March 23, 5:03 AM LONDON, March 22 - Mandatory sentencing legislation 'conflicted with the norms of justice', the UN's main race committee said today as it continued its examination of race relations in Australia. The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) said Western Australian and Northern Territory mandatory sentencing laws discriminated against indigenous people. One CERD member reported that some of those imprisoned under the legislation did not know why they were arrested. Leading Australia's delegation before the committee in Geneva, Immigration and Reconciliation Minister Philip Ruddock was told figures in Australia's report showed a lack of progress in tackling racism. Poor levels of schooling, health and other socio-economic factors demonstrated the unequal status of indigenous people, the committee said. Ruddock was also questioned on the legality of amendments to the 1998 Native Title Act, on the 'unacceptably high rate' of Aboriginal children before the courts and on budget cuts to organisations working with indigenous people. In his response to the committee, Ruddock acknowledged the past mistreatment of Aborigines and said that parliament had done so too. He said the federal government had expressed concerns over mandatory sentences and had asked the WA and NT attorneys-general to change the laws. Following the meeting, Ruddock denied reports he had been given a grilling by the committee. "There were some issues where they questioned aspects of our performance but they were open to what I had to say," he said. Ruddock later held a private meeting with High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson. The minister confirmed that the subject of the meeting was the UN Convention on Refugees and the UN Convention on Torture. Amnesty International this week asked Ruddock to take off his membership badge after he said the refugee convention was too open to abuse. Ruddock declined to elaborate on the meeting but said it has been positive. -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Recommended viewing tonight!
INSIGHT on SBS at 8:30 pm March 23, 2000 (tonight) Belinda Hawkins examines the philosophies underpinning the strategies of three contemporary indigenous leaders: Jacqui Katona, Geoff Clark and Senator Aden Ridgeway. Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] NT Govt website on mandatory sentencing
Here is the article I was thinking of... Tue, 4 Jan 2000 7:54 CDT LOCAL NEWS : Northern Territory Break-ins skyrocket despite mandatory sentencing The Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing regime does not appear to be deterring criminals from committing property offences. Mandatory sentencing was introduced in the Territory almost three years ago. The latest annual report from Territory Police shows unlawful entries in Alice Springs and Darwin have increased significantly. In Alice Springs in 1997/98 there were 687 reported breaks-ins. Twelve months later the annual total was 830. Reports of criminal damage also increased. In Darwin there were more than 2,200 break-ins during 1998/99, up by 512 on the previous year. The report also shows unlawful entries into buildings in Darwin more than doubled. In Katherine property crime was up by 5 per cent. © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation Sandy Sanders wrote: Yes, it's an interesting site -- thanks for posting the url, Trudy. I've already sent them a friendly note, but there's one thing I thought of later. They've got statistics purporting to show a 14% decrease in various kinds of property crime in the NT. Their benchmark dates are from 1995 to 1998. Am I wrong in thinking that the NT mandatory sentencing laws came into effect in March 1997? If that's right, what are the stats for before and after the laws changed? Someone might like to point out (in the nicest possible way), this discrepancy in their use of damned lies (sorry, statistics). Sandy Trudy and Rod Bray wrote: Denis Burke has published a website in defence of mandatory sentencing at: http://www.nt.gov.au/ministers/current_issues/mandatory_sentencing.shtml Trudy I posted this URL (above) yesterday and I don't know if anyone got that far but at the bottom there is a place where you can tell Denis Burke what you think of mandatory sentencing - it promises to go straight to the Chief Minister. If you want to make sure that it does, you could alway send a copy to his email address. ;-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trudy -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archi ve.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ ~~~ Sandy Sanders Wormhole Books 27A Main Street Upwey VIC 3158 ph/fax 61 (03) 9754 5440 www.wormhole.com.au WORMHOLE BOOKS science/fiction and beyond . . . . www.wormhole.com.au -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [Fwd: LL:DDV: URGENT ACTION!! FRIDAY 24/3]
Original Message Subject: LL:DDV: URGENT ACTION!! FRIDAY 24/3 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:08:21 +1100 From: Pauline Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED] URGENT URGENT URGENT (Please urgently email this to your networks) National Coalition Against Unfair Sentencing a coalition of groups against mandatory sentencing is in desperate and urgent need of people for a Melbourne action Friday morning The State and Cth Attorney Generals are meeting at the Old Treasury building and we are going to get an action together for outside. The details are: * wear black * bring grocery items (eg. textas, cordial, biscuits...like the ones that landed kids in jail) ...will be provided if you can't bring * posters will be provided but feel free to BYO * We are looking at an overall best shift of 8.30 -11am or if that can't be done either 8.30 - 9.30 or 9.30-11am * Where: front steps of Old Treasury Building (Spring st, top of Collins St ...the building with the gold on it) At such short notice we are desperate for support Can you help out or do you know any one who can...email this to your networks? If you can make it pls call Pauline 94111306 or 04177 41538 if you can Cheers and thanks Pauline Spencer, Fitzroy Legal Service LL.VC -- Leftlink - Australia's Broad Left Mailing List mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alexia.net.au/~www/mhutton/index.html Sponsored by Melbourne's New International Bookshop Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=subscribe%20leftlink Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20leftlink -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] 4 Corners and Jabiluka ---For your eyes.
Laurie, Laurie Forde wrote: Hi Rod, (snip) Thanks very much for keeping me informed and springing to my defence so rapidly the other day, Rod. I am sure that the nature of your early intervention got me back in" the circle". Actually, Laurie, that had nothing to do with it. I invited you back because you agreed that the rules applied to you also even though you didn't agree with them. I hate seeing recoznet lose ground to an obvious plant like Karen and would have been very disappointed if her actions and my response had resulted in my removal from the list, ---I believe that the people on Recoznet may be of some help toward a just reconciliation over the coming years, and I would like to assist in any way I can. I think that there have been other forces at work on Trudy, from what she has said in some of her posts to me-references to list members who have complained about my comments. There have been no forces at work on me. You don't seem to understand that a list like this is made up of many different people with different viewpoints and different tolerances for abusive language. Some don't see anything wrong with it and others are very sensitive to it. I have to try and strike a balance between this and keep things from blowing up. Usually I try to do that off-list because I don't think public embarrassment is helpful in most cases. Now, you can see this list on your own terms with your own ideas and think that this is all there is to it, however, for a list owner it is not that simple. I have more than myself to think of, I have the health and good working order of the list to think of. This is the reason for the 'no flaming' rule. Personal attacks hurt far more people than the one it is directed at. It upsets the working of the list. This is not censorship but consideration for your fellow members. Considering the forces of greed opposed to us, I think a problem exists when one person (Trudy or anyone else) can be subjected to continuous pressure to discipline or exclude a list member. Perhaps a group of 4-6 Recoznetters could make a decision if a problem arose, or a number of complaints were received . You don't have to feel sorry for me. I was not under continued pressure although, I am beginning to feel that way from your 'faction'. There is no way that a list can work being run by a committee. What you are saying is that you've trusted me to run the list for over a year, put in the hours and the effort, but now, when things are not going the way you think they should, I should step aside and let a committee take over. As I said before, it's not on. My own feeling is for members to simply delete or return to sender any messages that they feel are of an objectionable nature to themmaybe disrupters would simply tire of getting no result for their efforts. I am wary of any censorship on the Internet-At this stage, I cannot see how it can work, and people still feel able to express their opinions. Not everyone can handle that much mail. Of course, people should delete mail that they don't want and I'm sure that is just what they do. People are free to express their opinions just as they always have. It is expected that they do so in language that does not violate the rights of others. When did I ever stop someone from expressing their opinion, Laurie? Anyhow, we will probably have a discussion on the subject if anyone comes up with a remotely workable suggestionI don't think I'll put up any such suggestions at the moment:-) A workable suggestion for what exactly, Laurie? Trudy Thanks again , Rod. Laurie. -Original Message- From: Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [recoznet2] 4 Corners and Jabiluka [For anyone who missed it - it will be shown again at 1:00 pm today on ABC TV ---T] Forwarded from Christine Howes: from the Jabiluka List: For everyone who saw this excellent piece of investigative journalism, it's happening all over the country. The whole story with Kingstream is so similar to the way WMC rammed through Roxby and Heathgate's duress and snip Yes. The program reminded me very much and very painfully of situations that were common in South Australian uranium mining situations nearly twenty years ago. It pointed very clearly to the importance of shutting down the $ grabbing charlatans, whatever their background, before they can take control. Most white people, very unfortunately, will simply see the 4 Corners program as another indication that its all too hard and that there are too many people on the take. Cheers Rod (Truth is a road thats sometimes hard to find, but when you do it hits you in the face. Dishonesty is a pathless land - not Krishnamurti) -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen
[recoznet2] [FWD] Old Island way recognised in new council system
Forwarded from Christine Howes: Dept of Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander Policy Development Press Release Old Island way recognised in new council system March 17, 2000 The local council electors of Saibai Island in Torres Strait will be the first Queenslanders to vote under a system tailor-made for their unique culture, after the Government endorsed an initiative of the island community. The Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Policy, Judy Spence, said today the Government had passed a special regulation to enable the citizens of Saibai to choose their representatives along clan lines. "March 25 will be an historic day for Saibai Island, as its voters become the first in Queensland to select councillors according to a clan system," Ms Spence said. "The system was designed by the people of Saibai, who presented the Government with a strong case for a new government structure that would recognise their age-old culture. "The Labor Government upholds the right of Indigenous communities to have governing structures that suit their diverse cultures, and has introduced a regulation that enables this unique Saibai system." Saibai Island, home to about 350 people, is one of Queensland's most isolated outposts. It is 130km north-north-east of Thursday Island and a short boat ride from the Papua New Guinea coast. English is the third language, with Kala Kawaw Ya being preferred, followed by Torres Strait Creole. Ms Spence said: "The new council structure recognises that the island has two tribes, known as buways, which divide into seven clans. "Koeybuway - or big tribe - has three clans, and Moegibuway - meaning small tribe - has four. "Each clan will elect one councillor. After the first election, the councillors will elect a chair. After subsequent elections the chair will alternate between the buways. "At the moment there are only three elected members (two councillors and a chair) and there are concerns in the community that clans without a councillor are not being properly represented. "The new council structure should settle those concerns. "It will allow for a style of local government that fits the Saibai lifestyle, and gives each clan group a fair say in the running of their community." -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Some letters worth reading!
The Canberra Times - Letters to the editor (including one by John Bond!) http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news2/opinion/opinion1.shtml The Sydney Morning Herald - Letters to the editor http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/22/text/letters.html Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Mandatory laws worsen plight of Aborigines, UN tells Ruddock
World 9:34 am AEST March 22 2000 Mandatory laws worsen plight of Aborigines, UN tells Ruddock AAP -- Levels of Aboriginal incarceration in the Northern Territory were already unacceptably high and mandatory sentencing had worsened the plight of indigenous people, an Australian government delegation was told today by the United Nations' main race committee. Minister assisting the Prime Minister on Reconciliation Philip Ruddock led the delegation to the UN Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination in Geneva, which is examining Australia's reports on race relations between 1992 and 1998. He was grilled on mandatory sentencing and Australia's native title laws by three members of CERD including chief rapporteur Gay McDougall, the US-born Executive Director of the International Human Rights Law Group. A UN spokesman said CERD told Mr Ruddock the federal government should have done more to introduce legislation to stop mandatory sentencing by Western Australia and the Northern Territory. The committee said figures which showed that Aboriginal people made up 25 per cent of the population of the Northern Territory but 70 per cent of the prison population were "astonishing". And it was "unacceptable" and "unfair" that the rates of incarceration were made worse by the fact that mandatory sentencing laws put Aboriginals in a very unequal position and exposed Aboriginals to criminal influences at a very young age. The Committee also questioned Mr Ruddock on amendments to the Native Title Act, on the funding and decision-making powers of Aboriginal bodies and on the One Nation political party. Ms McDougall said she was surprised that a wealthy developed industrial country like Australia could not do more to raise standards of economic opportunity for a simple two per cent of the population. Among other criticisms, the committee said Australia's report lacked information on changes in the social and economic status of refugees since its previous report and was short of detail on how Australia measured the achievements and successes of reconciliation. Mr Ruddock is due to respond today. A spokeswoman for the minister said the questions had been expected. "I don't think the committee raised anything new," the spokeswoman said. "These are debates we have been having in Australia for some time." -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] National Aboriginal broadcast launched
National Aboriginal broadcast launched From AAP 22mar00 2.15pm (AEDT) AUSTRALIA'S first national Aboriginal radio broadcast will go to air tonight as Western Australia joins the national indigenous radio service. The broadcast will go out live from Broome, in the Kimberley region, launching the Pilbara and Kimberley Aboriginal Media (PAKAM) network. Through PAKAM, WA will have access to 24-hour indigenous radio, while PAKAM's programs will be broadcast to Aboriginal communities Australia-wide through the Brisbane-based national indigenous radio service. "The launch of PAKAM creates a powerful new indigenous media network that reaches into remote Aboriginal communities from the west to the east of Australia and back again," PAKAM spokeswoman Sandra Dunn said. "With this launch it's certainly brought forward the realisation that the media is not just a form of communication but an important way for us to be able to handle our own affairs in our own way, and to maintain our culture in an ever-changing society." -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] NT Govt website on mandatory sentencing
Denis Burke has published a website in defence of mandatory sentencing at: http://www.nt.gov.au/ministers/current_issues/mandatory_sentencing.shtml Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - -- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Laurie is resubbed
Laurie and I have agreed to disagree about methods but we have reached common ground that we both can live with so Laurie will be rejoining us. I hereby want to welcome Laurie back. Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] 4 Corners and Jabiluka
[For anyone who missed it - it will be shown again at 1:00 pm today on ABC TV ---T] Forwarded from Christine Howes: from the Jabiluka List: For everyone who saw this excellent piece of investigative journalism, it's happening all over the country. The whole story with Kingstream is so similar to the way WMC rammed through Roxby and Heathgate's duress and manipulation and corruption of the Adnyamathanha over Beverley.. Pity that North/ERA haven't been as successful with Jabiluka (sarcasm, JG) , 'coz the community there has refused to let corporate predators disrupt their community's rights and customary law. Good on 4 Corners! --- From: flinders ranges environment action collective 20/03/00 23:10:41 Subject: re: Taken away from the story post id: 87 For us here in the Flinders Ranges tonite's story is spookily parralelled by our experiences here with the Adnyamathanha Native Title Claim. It is saddening to watch mining companies and beaurocrats divide and conquer aboriginal communities. We deal with a much deadlier mineral for exploration here as the uranium industry grows in it's greed in Oz. Aboroginal people allover this land are fighting similar battles in often isolated environs, we feel the very real need for aboriginal people to share and support eachother. We would be extremely happy to hear from the ABC who did a great job tonite in exposing the injustices of native title, a long sad history for white colonising culture. - -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Personal attacks
Tim, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that they are not just my reasons. There are others on this list who have no trouble with the rules and expect them to be followed. They were there from the beginning. I think to ban flaming is the least we can ask from each other and as for who decides - I do. That is my responsibility as list owner and it is also my burden. I must say, I am getting to the stage where I am wondering if we are adult enough to deal with one provocateur. It is obvious by now that Karen is not interested in discussions that require listening and consideration on both sides. We gave her the benefit of the doubt but she has not addressed one question or given any indication that she is willing to. I suggest that the best way to quench a fire is to starve it of oxygen. As for Laurie, she is welcome to come back any time she is willing to follow the same rules as everyone else. I am not going to be put in the position of enforcing the rules for everyone but one person and I hope you don't expect me to. Why don't we do as Jay suggested and get back to what we are here for and no longer let one person distract us from that. Trudy tdunlop wrote: I'd just like to put in a request for the re-admission of Laurie, if she is interested. I'm sympathetic to your reasons, Trudy, but calling racists racists seems a reasonable thing to do. So while I agree we should try and keep discussion above slanging match level, some sort of defacto speech/manners code seems to me unenforceable. What words? What etiquette? Who decides? It seems to me it's a slippery slope. Tim --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] List issues
-Attachments cannot be processed on the list so please remember: No attachments. -If subscribed to the Digest , please remember to change the subject line to what is being discussed when 'replying' to a message so that there are no 'Re: Recoznet2-L's' in the subject line, please also remember to delete irrelevant text copies when replying so the length of emails is shorter. Remember also to change the 'Reply to' for private communications. -While all members have a dedicated aim of working for reconciliation and justice for Aboriginal Australians, there are bound to be many different viewpoints on how to attain these goals. Members are encouraged to discuss and debate vigorously but in language that respects the viewpoint and humanity of others. -Any personal disagreements which go outside the boundaries outlined above, should be kept private. If any member is found to be harassing others on the list - even privately - that member may be asked to leave the list. -Members are encouraged to take part in discussions and debates. If you only feel comfortable contributing one line on an occasional basis then, please, do contribute that. We need ideas, education, information, inspiration as well as support for lobbying and other activist projects. -Although some discussion of off topic issues is encouraged please do not post items irrelevant to the purpose of the list. -Persistent offenders will will be removed from the list! It seems that some people have not seen the rules for some reason so I have posted them above. They are available on the Recoznet2 homepage and the URL for this page is posted at the bottom of every message on the list. For those who want to have a consensus on the issue - there are 101 members subscribed so a consensus would have to be from a majority of these - say 60%. Perhaps a consensus would first have to be reached on which question to ask. e.g. Do you want an open forum where there are no standards of discourse or do you support a minimum standard of no personal attacks? If there are standards, do you think they should apply to all members or only those we don't like? Do you support a seeking of consensus every time someone disagrees with the judgement of the listowner? How many would have to disagree for this to occur? One? Five? More? Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Answer to your concerns
I will try to address as many issues that have been brought up as possible. First of all, when Bruce was going to leave the list in limbo, there was a yawning silence from all members. Some spoke up and wanted to keep it going but noone except Paul and me stepped in to keep it going. Paul is still in England so I am 'it'. Paul and I worked out the rules because we were going to be the list owners. I remember there was no 'democratic' vote on removals when Bruce had the list either. The list has been in existence for over a year now and, until now, noone has had anything to say about the rules. I'm sorry if I didn't understand that some of the members on this list subscribe to situational ethics. We can ask people like Karen to have respect and empathy for Aboriginal Australians but we are not bound by those rules of behaviour on this list if we don't feel like it? We believe in consideration and justice only for those we approve of? Sounds like something Howard would do. I have tried to explain why Laurie was removed but noone is listening. I contacted Laurie off-list because 1) I don't believe in public embarrassment, 2) I could see where it was likely to go in light of Laurie's intemperate language in the past 3) I was hoping to head off a brawl on the list, 4) I DID NOT INTEND TO REMOVE LAURIE FROM THE LIST FOR WHAT HE HAD SAID. I'm sorry to shout but I want that to be clear. What happened is that Laurie set himself above everyone else and decided that the rules did not apply to him. He suggested I'd better get my unsub finger ready because he intended to personally attack anyone he felt deserved it on the list or off. I didn't feel he left me much of a choice then. He can attack anyone he likes off the list but not on it. Someone had a problem with what constituted a personal attack. It's very simple. Attacking views is fine, attacking the person as if they were the views, is not. Something along the lines of 'You are behaving stupidly' is fine, 'you are stupid' is not. Unless, of course, you want to ensure that the person concerned clams up and doesn't listen to or consider anything you say and at no time in the future will be ready to change their mind. That will help Aboriginal Australians a lot, right? We will run into more Karens in the future and it is better that we learn to deal with it without letting people who hold those view dehumanise us. I suggest that we learn to hone our skills in promoting and defending the rights of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters instead of attacking the people holding those views. Yes, they are racist views. I have no trouble with that word and have used it many times myself. But if we want to open the door to enlightenment, now or in the future for people like that, then a personal attack will have the opposite effect. People under attack will defend their position and be in no mood to listen. Justice is defending the rights of those you don't like as well as insisting on that behaviour from those you do. I must say I am a little amazed at how some of you seem to be deciding that I can keep on doing 'my wonderful job' while you decide who stays and goes without consulting me. I'm afraid it's not on. Laurie can come back any time he decides that the rules apply to him just like everyone else. Anyone who wants him to come back and be the only one exempt from the rules is on the wrong list. Now let's get back to what we are here for and stop wasting any more time on disrupters. Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Personal attacks
No, Susanne, that is what made me decide to contact Laurie. It was her expressed intention to use personal attack (rather than attack a point of view) as a way to further the cause of Indigenous Australians and her intention to do so on the list whenever she felt justified that made me decide to remove her. Trudy webweave wrote: trudy - was this what made u decide to remove laurie? 'Karen, until you are able to comprehend that Indigenous culture has as much right to recognition as Invader culture you will never be able to examine the issues sensibly, and will continue on your racist voyage of ignorance.' susanne martain --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Thank you for confirming my suspicions. It explains a lot. Karen Crook wrote: Yes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean that your are with the police? Trudy Karen Crook wrote: For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
So you just gave the police side. What is the other side that you referred to? Karen Crook wrote: I have seen officers work very hard to perform their duties and I have seen what they come up against being attacked every day for supposedly doing wrong. Not all police are corrupt you know! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? To which 'both sides' are you referring? Karen Crook wrote: I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both sides. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean that your are with the police? Trudy --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Cut the repeats?
Just a reminder to cut the extraneous bits off any message that you answer please! We don't want to fill the archives with endless repeats when the space could be better utilised. I will try to remember also! ;-) Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
I didn't see a personal attack, Karen. Jack painted a scenario because you left everyone wondering. You haven't been exactly honest with us, have you? You have defended the police without telling us you weren't a disinterested bystander. You have refused to acknowledge that the police sometimes victimise. Some time ago, we had a policeman on the list who's views were very much the same as yours, Karen. There was one difference though, he realised that he should try to help Indigenous youth instead of just judging them. He really cared even though his education had been one of the One Nation point of view. We had very robust discussions on this list then too, but he listened and his views did change somewhat. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see Reconciliation go nowhere. Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, that's fair! I think you need a new game plan Jack. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary!
I posted the poll result for the point it made. The point! What does it matter about the externals? Trudy Karen Crook wrote: Okay then, perhaps we need to find out exactly where the poll was taken and by whom. Then we can decide whether or not it was a respected poll/survey. I thought Trudy was implying that Michael Moore actually conducted the survey on his show because she never mentioned it being an external survey. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Glenn Murray Sent: Friday, 17 March 2000 9:16 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary! Come on Karen! Be reasonable! Trudy's talking about a comedy show which is citing a real survey. The show must be taken with a grain of salt, but the survey shouldn't (at least not more than any other survey). Glenn Murray -Original Message- From: Karen Crook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 8:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary! But these sort of shows should really be taken with a grain of salt. Do we believe all movies because a lot of them have real life stuff? A lot of things get over-exaggerated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Thursday, 16 March 2000 9:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary! This was the result of a real poll and showed that 22% of Americans didn't even know that there were no sanctions against Sweden but they had an opinion anyway in that they agreed it should be bombed. Yes the show is humorous but most of it has a point and what they are jabbing at isn't funny - it's scary because it *is* real life that they are commenting on. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: They also all agreed that Hilary Clinton should got out with the toothless guy!!! The show is comedy and takes a jab at everyone. It is not a true representation of life. Just people being silly and having crazy fun. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2000 9:21 AM To: RecOzNet2 Subject: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary! There was a brilliant example of polls and ignorance on last night's Michael Moore's The Awful Truth: (Paraphrased) In a poll which asked if America should commence bombing Sweden if current sanctions did not work, 22% of Americans said 'yes'. (!) Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual member
[recoznet2] SMH - The letter from the four judges
Letters: Clever politics or pandering to prejudice? Date: 18/03/00 The inability of the national political process to achieve reconciliation with indigenous Australians and to terminate mandatory sentencing provides a disturbing insight into the practical operation of the simplistic notion that democracy is merely the majority will. Racism and injustice are evil, particularly when they have popular support. It is unjust to imprison offenders without regard to their personal circumstances, life experience, prospects of rehabilitation or other, more suitable, sentences. It is racist (and cowardly) to enact and implement laws which apply most harshly to a disempowered minority. It may be thought to be clever politics but it is not leadership to pander to ignorance and prejudice. Justices Tony Fitzgerald, Paul Stein, Margaret Beazley, James Wood, Sydney -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Liberals have lost their conscience
The Sydney Morning Herald Liberals have lost their conscience Date: 18/03/00 Late last year Amnesty International wrote to Philip Ruddock, the Minister for Immigration, and asked that he no longer wear his AI lapel badge when speaking in his capacity as Federal minister. The private letter cited Amnesty's "fundamental opposition" to the minister's treatment of refugees. It did not want him identified in any way with Amnesty when he announced or defended his hard-hearted policies. Yet Ruddock is supposedly part of the conscience of the Liberal Party, the liberal Left who identify themselves with a small "l" and call themselves the moderates. In days gone by he was a fiery spirit, too, who has crossed the floor to oppose John Howard's 1988 pronounce-ment that Australia should alter the ethnic mix of its migration program. But that was then. Now, Ruddock not only runs an immigration policy which Amnesty condemns, he also was all but invisible this week when the Government stymied all attempts to override the Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing laws, which Amnesty also condemns. Also silent was Robert Hill, Minister for the Environment, and once also a man whose conscience repeatedly put him on the opposite side of the chamber from his conservative Liberal colleagues. So too Justice Minister Amanda Vanstone and Attorney-General Daryl Williams (who should both be directly concerned by Australian breaches of international law). Not to mention John Fahey, Joe Hockey and Michael Wooldridge, all ministers who have identified themselves in the past with the moderates and progressive social policy. The Liberal moderates have faded away like summer dew. Over the past 10 or 15 years, many have been driven from the party, either dumped by the Right at preselection time or given up in disgust. The right-wing headkickers, led by Michael Kroger in Victoria, John Howard and Bronwyn Bishop in NSW, Nick Minchin in South Australia and Noel Crichton-Browne in WA, have purged many, and co-opted most of the rest. The silence of the ministers was proof. Yesterday, the Herald rang most of the remaining moderates. It doesn't take long. Even by the estimates of the small core who remain, they only number about 10 at most. Mandatory sentencing is a clear-cut human rights issue. The laws which mandatorily jail juveniles in Western Australia and more particularly in the NT breach multiple human rights agreements to which Australia is a signatory, are opposed by virtually the entire legal community up to High Court level as a travesty of justice, and are opposed by the clear majority of Federal politicians. Yet opposition to them in the Government was led not by a moderate, but by a social conservative who is committed to the rights of kids, Mrs Danna Vale. The final test, of course, is expected to come on April 10, when a new bill, more tightly framed, to override the NT laws without touching Western Australia, is due to come before the House. If, as appears likely, the moderates cannot find the collective gumption to stand up and be counted, then it will be fair to consider them dead as a political force. They need six to cross the floor; at the moment they can muster two or three at best. If they can't do it, the conservative hegemony will be complete and the Liberal Party will effectively have no liberal element left in it at all. Mike Seccombe This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [Fwd: Urgent Attention - CERD Submissions]
Original Message Subject: Urgent Attention - CERD Submissions Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:23:19 -0800 (PST) From: ffionnan brooke-watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Friends, Reminder Press Conference and Launch Monday 20th March '00 11:30am Parliament House - at the Mosaic If wet at the Senate entrance First Press realise went out Wednesday and then another went out on Friday. Energy and interests are building. We have 35 submissions - New ones are from Dr Ernest Hunter and Chris Cuneen (Director of Instuute of Criminolgy) All are welcome hope you all can make it Ffionnan __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Ruddock asked not to wear Amnesty's badge of honour
ABC News Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:34 AEDT Ruddock asked not to wear Amnesty's badge of honour Amnesty International has publicly asked Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock to remove his membership badge during ministerial duties. The human rights organisation has accused Mr Ruddock of bringing Amnesty's reputation into question. Amnesty International wrote to Mr Ruddock last year protesting against the introduction of temporary visas for refugees and asked that he no longer wear his membership badge while announcing policies. Now Amnesty has made the request publicly, saying those policies bring no honour to the organisation and there is a serious conflict of interest between Mr Ruddock's ministerial role and his Amnesty membership. Today's request follows a Labor MP's interjection in Question Time yesterday when Mr Ruddock was defending the government's tougher stance on illegal workers. "You've become a a disgrace to your badge," the interjector said. Mr Ruddock is overseas and unavailable for comment. Amnesty's national president Kathy Kingston says the organisation's board has a right to assess who brings honour on Amnesty and clearly Mr Ruddock does not. "Options open to us are suspension of membership or expulsion from Amnesty International," she said. "They are options under the policy we have in place. The board will consider all the options that we have open to us when we next meet in April." © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Forwarded from Christine Howes: ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti Discrimination Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and unappealable police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for Premier Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State Parliament to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase in arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or public scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic rights and liberties of all Queenslanders. "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' provisions. "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream media over this. "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny of these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of Queensland being portrayed as a police state." -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Protecting children from the foolishness of adults
Forwarded from Christine Howes: Friday 17/3/00 : ATSIC Media Release Protecting children from the foolishness of adults News that there won't be any government support for a private member's bill exempting children from the Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing regime is a cause for despair in Aboriginal communities, according to an ATSIC Commissioner from Central Australia. "Protecting children from the foolishness of adults should be the overriding concern for the members of any government," the Commissioner for ATSIC's NT (Central) Zone, Alison Anderson, said today. "Exempting children is the least action any politician should take. "No argument about respecting territory rights can justify a lack of action to protect a regime that does not deliver justice in its treatment of juveniles." Commissioner Anderson, from Papunya, said lack of government initiative on mandatory sentencing issues meant that reconciliation is dead in the water. "What do we have to reconcile with if laws like this are allowed to continue in the NT and Western Australia?" she asked. "We look to the government to ensure that justice is uniformly applied across this country. Now the message is that different laws apply to different people, depending on where you live. "If that's going to continue, I'd like to see federal support for a move towards incorporating traditional indigenous law into the legislative framework so Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people can begin administering our own justice. "I'm also disappointed that individual members of the government parties who oppose mandatory sentencing apparently have allowed themselves to be persuaded not to cross the floor. "Not only can we not count on the government, we can't count on the consciences of individuals to save our children. "When consciences mean nothing, it's hard to see that we can make any progress to overcoming the gap between black and white Australia." -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] ATSIC says mandatory sentencing killing reconciliation
ABC News Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:38 AEDT ATSIC says mandatory sentencing killing reconciliation The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission's (ATSIC) southern zone commissioner for the Northern Territory, says the Federal Government's approach to mandatory sentencing is killing the reconciliation process. Alison Anderson's comments follow the government's gagging of debate on three bills, aimed at overriding the territory's mandatory sentencing laws. Ms Anderson, from central Australia, says the government has nothing to reconcile with if it continues to allow juveniles to be affected by the laws in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. She says the Federal Government should protect children and ensure justice is applied uniformly across all jurisdictions. Ms Anderson says there should be a move towards incorporating traditional Aboriginal law into the legislative framework so indigenous people can administer their own justice. She has also attacked members of the coalition who say they will not cross the floor on the issue, despite opposing mandatory sentencing. © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary!
This was the result of a real poll and showed that 22% of Americans didn't even know that there were no sanctions against Sweden but they had an opinion anyway in that they agreed it should be bombed. Yes the show is humorous but most of it has a point and what they are jabbing at isn't funny - it's scary because it *is* real life that they are commenting on. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: They also all agreed that Hilary Clinton should got out with the toothless guy!!! The show is comedy and takes a jab at everyone. It is not a true representation of life. Just people being silly and having crazy fun. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2000 9:21 AM To: RecOzNet2 Subject: [recoznet2] Funny but very scary! There was a brilliant example of polls and ignorance on last night's Michael Moore's The Awful Truth: (Paraphrased) In a poll which asked if America should commence bombing Sweden if current sanctions did not work, 22% of Americans said 'yes'. (!) Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Revealed: human rights whitewash
The Sydney Morning Herald Revealed: human rights whitewash Date: 17/03/00 By MARK RILEY, Herald Correspondent in New York Politically explosive findings that placed Australia in direct violation of international human rights conventions were dumped from a United Nations report on mandatory sentencing this week amid diplomatic pressure from the Howard Government. The discarded conclusions said the laws breached the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and numerous human rights instruments on racial discrimination and independence of the judiciary. Their exclusion from the final report allowed the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr Downer, to announce on Monday that the potentially damaging inquiry had made "no judgments about Australia's conformity with international standards". UN officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said this had saved the Federal Government from the politically dangerous prospect of a UN Human Rights Commission (UNHRC) request to override the Northern Territory and West Australian mandatory sentencing laws. That request would have had profound consequences for the Government, which on Wednesday used its numbers in the House of Representatives to gag any debate on a bill by Senator Bob Brown that would effectively overrule the laws. Documents obtained by the Herald show that UN human rights experts made several adverse judgments that did not appear in the final report. "The exercise of juvenile justice in Australia would appear to be in violation of human rights standards prohibiting discrimination," they wrote. In another section the experts found: "The practice of mandatory sentencing is, in reality, a violation of the right to a fair trial by an independent and impartial court." They also ruled that: "The possibility for a sentence to be reviewed is internationally accepted in all but the most serious of cases, such as those involving murder. From the information provided, it would seem that this right has not been respected." In another section expunged from the report, the UN human rights experts found that the Australian laws contravened the independence of judges by removing their discretion in sentencing. "Mandatory sentencing rules are typically imposed by political authorities on the judiciary and they thus violate the usual requirement that the executive be separate and distinct from the judiciary," they said. The findings were dropped after high-level diplomatic representations from Australia in recent weeks to the UNHRC in Geneva and to UNICEF in New York. The diplomats emphasised the political sensitivity of the issue and spelt out the potential consequences for the Government of any adverse findings. The advice on whether the Northern Territory and West Australian laws breached the conventions had been requested by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Beazley, during a meeting in Canberra with the UN Secretary-General, Mr Kofi Annan, last month. Mr Annan had passed on the request to the UN Human Rights Commissioner, Mrs Mary Robinson, and the head of UNICEF, Ms Carol Bellamy. UN officials told the Herald that Mr Annan considered the mandatory sentencing issue to be a domestic matter and did not want the report to be used as political ammunition to drag the UN into the debate. He was also eager to maintain the good relations he had established with the Government through Australia's leading role in the East Timor peacekeeping mission. The UN officials revealed that the UNHRC had the power to make a formal request to Australia to amend laws that put it in breach of its international obligations. The Government would be seen as having sole responsibility for ensuring that those obligations were met because the conventions had been ratified by the Australian government of the day. That responsibility would require the Government to take whatever action was necessary to either amend or override State laws that breached the conventions, the officials said. This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. *** The original UN report on mandatory sentencing Date: 17/03/00 The Convention on the Rights of the Child (article 37 (b)) states that the detention and imprisonment of juveniles should be a measure of "last resort". The Convention and the Committee on the Rights of the Child encourage States to make use of "alternatives to detention/imprisonment". This does not appear to be the case here. The objectives of juvenile justice: juvenile justice must focus on the rehabilitation of children in conflict with the law. Juvenile justice, like adult justice, must also focus on the protection of society from crime and must respond to the needs of victims of crime; however, the weight given to the protection of the child perpetrators of crime is very different from that given to adults and the emphasis to be placed on the rehabilitation of children is paramount. One can ask if the use of
[recoznet2] Howard damned on four fronts
THE AGE Howard damned on four fronts By MICHAEL GORDON Friday 17 March 2000 The Howard Government stands condemned for its blatant expediency, hypocrisy, inconsistency and cant on the issue of mandatory sentencing. Expediency, because it is prepared to use the weight of numbers in its party room to thwart the will of the majority in the people's house. For it is now clear that a free vote in the House of Representatives would see the laws of the Northern Territory struck down. Hypocrisy, because it uses international obligations to lecture the states on how to behave on some issues, but not others. Witness supervised injecting rooms. Inconsistency, because it was willing to override the Northern Territory on euthanasia, when a more compelling case in terms of a fair and just society can be mounted on mandatory sentencing. And cant, because it was prepared to make great play of the lack of findings in this week's United Nations report after lobbying hard to have them excised from the document. Indeed, the manner in which the Government appears to have influenced the UN officials who were asked to investigate the mandatory sentencing laws of WA and the NT is a slur on the reputation of that body. It suggests there is one standard for "model international citizens" like Australia, another for the rest. Surely, if conventions like those on the Rights of the Child are to mean anything, requests for advice of possible breaches should be dealt with the utmost integrity and a degree of transparency. Sadly, the tone for the probe was set before the UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, arrived in Darwin last month to thank Australia for its role in restoring order in East Timor. Mr Howard suggested Australia's human rights record meant the country was immune from international scrutiny, declaring: "We are not told what to do by anybody." The unfortunate impression is that Australia's reward for upholding human rights in East Timor is that our own blemishes escape proper scrutiny. Having declared himself against mandatory sentencing, Mr Howard has judged that this is not a leadership issue. Apparently, it is more important to stand up for the territory's right to pass a bad law. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] White feather email
If anyone wants to send a white feather to the MPs and Senators who misplaced their consciences when the crunch came but can't get any physical white feathers, I have a jpeg of a white feather which can be sent in an email. Let me know if you want me to forward it. If you send it, make sure you have your messages formatted for both HMTL and text and have your attachments set for 'inline'. Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators
Bruce Baird MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kerry Bartlett MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christine Gallus MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Petro Georgiou MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brendan Nelson MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Nugent MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christopher Pyne MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Danna Vale MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senator Helen Coonan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senator Marise Payne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators
Graham, You may be right and I appreciate your thoughts on this but there are also many who disagree with you and it is for those people that I made it available. I haven't written the pollies off at all and I know that this has some way to go. A white feather would cause someone like John Howard to dig in his heels but for those with a conscience it might just shame them into examining that conscience a little more closely and to question what it is they *will* stand up for - if anything. There are occasions when a drop of gall gets better results than a gallon of honey. I'm sure people will have different opinions on this and everyone will decide what they think will have the best results and act accordingly. Trudy Graham Young wrote: Trudy,Perhaps you have decided to write these people off completely for now and into the future, in which case, send your feather. But if you think you might like to influence them at some time in the future, I think you would be much better off writing a letter expressing your concern in more moderate terms.Afterall, this bill has a while to run yet, and there are a few more twists in the senate. Who knows what might re-ignite the issue? Even today's stories in the SMH might cause some to rethink.You know what they say about a drop of honey being better than a gallon of gall.Graham Y - Original Message - From: Trudy and Rod Bray To: RecOzNet2 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:09 AM Subject: [recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators Bruce Baird MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kerry Bartlett MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christine Gallus MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Petro Georgiou MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brendan Nelson MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Nugent MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christopher Pyne MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Danna Vale MP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senator Helen Coonan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senator Marise Payne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words: unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html *
[recoznet2] SMH Online Poll
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/17/pageone/pageone2.html Should the Prime Minister allow a conscience vote on mandatory sentencing? Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators
Funny, how people see things differently! ;-) When I heard him say that last night, I thought it was a Howard inspired cop-out. This is just the sort of thing Howard would say to confuse the issue and misdirect the focus of what was really being discussed. IF, and it's a big 'if', politicians really behaved like that, there would be no political parties, no government, nothing. However, we all know that politicians are not like that and are in no danger of doing anything remotely like that so it is a furphy. It is designed to do exactly what you just did, Tim...;-) People start thinking and getting wrapped up in the complications while he walks away with his hypocrisy. What is really necessary is that on the rare occasions that it crops up - as in this instance - politicians of conscience stand up to be counted. When they don't, and they put whatever else first, then they deserve to be criticised for their cowardice. These politicians want all the praise and respect for having a conscience while they do nothing to earn it. What have they done? They have talked about it. But what have they done? When the crunch came and people counted on them they disappeared into the woodwork to save their political hides. To me, this is far worse than those who are honest about their prejudice. Trudy PS I have sent a message to the SMH to enquire about the letter. tdunlop wrote: Thanks a lot Trudy, really appreciate it. I was also interested in the article with Brendan Nelson's comments that you posted. Even allowing for the rationalisation involved in his comments he still raises an interesting point when he says: "If I or any of my colleagues were on every issue that comes before us simply to go and do what we think is the right thing to do, ignoring the views of other people whose views have as much legitimacy as my own, then this country would essentially be ungovernable." That bit about legitimate other views makes me wonder on what basis such legitimacy is decided. Even Kant said that there can be no experts in morality, by which he meant that moral decisions are personal and community standards - to the extent that you can talk about them - are never really settled. Though this shouldn't be confused with saying that everybody is entitled to their opinion and leave it at that. Nor should it be confused with simple 'majority always rules'. So maybe he, Nelson, has a point - even if I disagree with his choice in this particular case? Which makes the tag of coward a little too easy to apply maybe? I'm not suggesting or looking for definitive answers here (obviously) as for one thing, I'm not quite sure what I think about the whole thing - I just get struck by the actual complexity of such debates. Still, I hope the other potential crossers don't come to the same conclusion as Nelson. More power to their shoes! Tim --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Liberal rules out crossing floor on sentencing
ABC News Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:03 AEDT Liberal rules out crossing floor on sentencing A key Federal Liberal MP, Brendan Nelson, has ruled out crossing the floor to overturn mandatory sentencing laws for juveniles. Brendan Nelson is one of several MPs who strongly oppose mandatory sentencing, who combined could help pass legislation to override laws in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. The Government has so far scuttled or gagged debate on a Senate bill and two private members' bills to overturn the laws. The Independent MP, Peter Andren, says he will introduce another bill next month to override laws in the Northern Territory. But Dr Nelson has made it clear he will not defy the government. "I have been unsuccessful in persuading the majority of my colleagues to support my position," he said. "If I or any of my colleagues were on every issue that comes before us simply to go and do what we think is the right thing to do, ignoring the views of other people whose views have as much legitimacy as my own, then this country would essentially be ungovernable." © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators
Hi Tim, I searched high and low for that letter in the print edition and the online version and it has not been published. Maybe they will do so tomorrow for the weekend edition but if they don't, I will contact the Herald and ask about it. Trudy tdunlop wrote: PS: Trudy: Have you come across the letter that Margo Kingston mentions in her article today?: "In a stinging letter to the Herald, the former royal commissioner into police corruption, the NSW Appeal Court judge Justice James Wood, was joined by three colleagues on the appeal Bench, Justices Tony Fitzgerald, Margaret Beazley and Paul Stein, in accusing some politicians of exploiting popular prejudice to trample powerless minorities." Maybe it's only in the print edition? Or maybe I missed it online? All help appreciated. Thanks. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Email addresses of MPs and Senators
tdunlop wrote: My only point was really to address the question of how we know we are right about something, but maybe that wasn't clear. To that extent Nelson's comments were interesting, even if they apparently duped people like me. I wasn't implying you were duped. People who care and take things seriously do look at the complications when they are presented to them. This indicates that they are concerned, not stupid. My point was that he played on that and used it. I'm just interested in how people get their certainties and why uncertainty is so often interpretted as weakness. Maybe you think it is interpreted as weakness. ;-) I haven't noticed that anyone here thinks it is. I meant it as a general observation and directed at no-one in particular. Maybe it's this sort of thing Peter McGrath had in mind when he criticised us for being too narrow-minded? I don't think so, Tim. He was talking about how we treated each other not pollies whose track record condemns them. Trudy --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Inside the Liberal defeat of liberals
The Sydney Morning Herald Inside the Liberal defeat of liberals Date: 16/03/00 By MIKE SECCOMBE By the time yesterday's fractious special meeting of the Liberal and National parties had ended, so had any prospect of Federal Government action to override the Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing legislation. Only nine people spoke in favour of action; 27 spoke against. And many of those argued by anecdote about crimes they knew of which they thought had been insufficiently punished. They say a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged, and the debate showed only nine liberals left in the Coalition. Or, at least, only nine with the courage of their conviction that the NT's laws are wrong and should be changed. But by day's end, they too had been mugged and forced to toe the conservative line. Against them, speaker after speaker voiced their disagreement with mandatory sentencing, but found excuses not to act. Some were bluntly political, saying conservative voters supported mandatory sentencing; others cited States' rights. The last speaker, South Australian moderate MP Christine Gallus, said she was stunned to see most of the people who spoke against Federal intervention were the same ones who spoke in favour of overriding the Territory's euthanasia laws. Where was the consistency? "You can't always expect consistency in politics, Chris," said the Prime Minister, and ended the session. The 2-hour meeting sometimes verged on open hostility. Howard had to calm things, pointing out there was no chance of anyone crossing the floor. And he was right. Later, when a bill passed by the Senate, which would have overridden the NT laws, came to the House of Representatives, no-one broke ranks. The Government gagged the debate. Howard knew he had won long before he ambushed the moderates with the surprise party room meeting. Seven of them - Nugent, Danna Vale, Brendan Nelson, Bruce Baird, Petro Georgiou, Christopher Pyne and Kerry Bartlett - had gone to see him on Monday night. He had been unable to see them until 10.50pm, ironically because he had to attend a dinner with ATSIC commissioners. They put to him that the NT should be offered Federal support to implement diversionary programs, if it would agree to a three-year moratorium on enforcing mandatory sentencing. They suggested the NT should be threatened with the private member's bill if it refused. Howard told them he was convinced the NT would not budge, but that he was prepared to allow a debate on such a bill in the party room, so long as the moderates were prepared to accept the outcome. On Tuesday morning, the same group met at 9.15, ahead of the 10am party room meeting. But Howard's arguments about the damage which might be done to the Government had weakened the resolve of a couple of them. Nonetheless, it was decided Ms Vale would put up the bill and Marise Payne, Christopher Pyne and Bruce Baird supported her. Howard agreed to a further party room debate on the private member's bill, but did not say when it might be brought on. The fax announcing yesterday's 9am meeting went out at 10pm Tuesday, while most MPs were at a dinner for the Irish Prime Minister. Most of the moderate group did not even know of it until it was about to happen. And after it was all over, an ashen-faced Danna Vale held a press conference to admit defeat. But asked what she'd do if another child committed suicide while under mandatory sentence in the NT, Ms Vale said she would reconsider her position. In the meantime, Howard has given his Government's handful of liberal members a small bone; a committee to make recommendations to Cabinet, on diversionary and other programs which could be funded for the NT. And Aboriginal groups now seem sure to take the issue to the UN. This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. *** In light of the fact that the liberals with so-called 'moral conviction' against mandatory sentencing had the numbers to easily pass the Brown Bill in the lower House but chose to bury these 'strongly held convictions' and slink away at the behest of the PM, people are sending them white feathers to point out their moral cowardice. For those who also want to express their disgust in this way, here is the list of pollies responsible: Bruce Baird MP Kerry Bartlett MP Christine Gallus MP Petro Georgiou MP Brendan Nelson MP Peter Nugent MP Christopher Pyne MP Danna Vale MP The House of Representatives Parliament House Canberra ACT 2600 Senator Helen Coonan Senator Marise Payne The Senate Parliament House Canberra ACT 2600 Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe
[recoznet2] Govt gags Beazley's bill to overturn mandatory sentencing
ABC News Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:37 AEDT Govt gags Beazley's bill to overturn mandatory sentencing The Federal Government has gagged debate on a bill introduced by the Opposition leader Kim Beazley to override mandatory sentencing laws for juveniles. The Government yesterday effectively shelved debate on a similar bill passed by the Senate to overturn the Northern Territory and Western Australian laws. Legislation from Liberal backbencher, Danna Vale, on the Northern Territory laws was scuttled by the Coalition. Mr Beazley has attempted to move his legislation in Parliament this morning. But as Mr Beazley began to speak, Arts Minister Peter McGauran moved a motion for the Opposition leader to "be no longer heard". The Government used its numbers to pass the motion and quash the debate. © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Historian claims federation hurt Aborigines
ABC News Thur, 16 Mar 2000 11:46 CDT LOCAL NEWS : Alice Springs Historian claims federation hurt Aborigines A leading University of New South Wales historian says Federation was a significant step backwards for Aboriginal rights. Bruce Scates says before 1900, many Aborigines had the right to vote as landowners and had the rights and responsibilities of British subjects. Mr Scates says Federation was achieved at great human cost. "The way that we've omitted Aboriginal people from this story, the way that we can speak about a new nation and open and democratic society and overlook the terrible condition of Aboriginal people," he said. "The fact that under the so-called protection legislation, which exisited in this country effectively through till the 1960s, Aboriginal people were no more than wards of the state. "Their legal status was something between an idiot and a child, they weren't permitted to own property, their wages were taken from them, their children were taken from them." © 2000 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Coalition backbenchers abandon mandatory jailing bills
Coalition backbenchers abandon mandatory jailing bills Source: AAP | Published: Wednesday March 15, 4:52 PM Prime Minister John Howard derailed federal attempts to overturn mandatory sentencing today when government backbenchers agreed to abandon two legislative attacks on the Northern Territory laws. Sydney Liberal MP Danna Vale bowed to an impassioned party room debate by withdrawing her bill that would have exempted children from the NT laws. This was despite nine of her colleagues speaking out in support - enough to carry the bill through the House of Representatives with Labor support. 'Regrettably, I was unable to sway the majority of my colleagues and it was the democratic decision of the joint party room not to allow the bill,' Mrs Vale told journalists. 'I will not therefore be taking this bill any further.' The vanquished government supporters of the Vale bill also agreed not to defy Mr Howard by crossing the floor on a similar bill sponsored by Greens Senator Bob Brown. The Brown bill, which would free children from mandatory sentencing in both the NT and Western Australia, was passed by the Senate today with Labor and Australian Democrats support. None of the government members and senators had even reserved their decisions on the Brown bill during the two-hour party room meeting, a government spokesman said. 'They either indicated that explicitly or implicitly from their comments. I don't believe anybody will be supporting the Brown bill from the government parties,' he said. Mr Howard told the party room he would phone NT Chief Minister Denis Burke and advise him not to take too much comfort from their decision not to act. The prime minister also promised to establish a backbench committee to advise cabinet on the findings of a Senate inquiry that this week recommended the WA and NT laws be overruled. Senator Brown said Mr Howard would be remembered as a prime minister who provided big business with the GST but failed to free children from unjust jail sentences. 'Danna Vale and the other Liberals who have spoken up in the party room today are what's left of the true Liberal spirit in this country,' Senator Brown said. 'It is a pretty sad day that they have been mandatorily sentenced to sit on their hands against their own consciences by a prime minister who can't act with the leadership required to overcome mandatory sentencing.' Senator Brown said there was a chance his bill, amended to exclude WA, could win the support of enough Liberals to pass the House of Representatives. Mrs Vale would not speculate on whether she would support such a bill. 'I think that really is hypothetical at this stage,' she said. She felt she had taken her cause as far as she could, despite the rules of the Liberal Party allowing members to cross the floor. 'I feel I have in my conscience and that's what's been guiding me through all this,' she said. Opposition Leader Kim Beazley described Mr Howard's inaction on mandatory sentencing as untenable. North Australia Aboriginal Legal Aid would take a case against mandatory sentencing to the United Nations Human Rights Committee before the Sydney Olympics, lawyer John Sheldon said. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
Karen, You seem to have missed the point I was making. Whether or not it is a person you know or a group of people you don't is not what is relevant, but rather that 'sorry' is not an admission of guilt but an understanding of and empathy with suffering and grief. And if non-Aboriginal Australians are not capable of that in light of Aboriginal dispossession and disadvantage that they have caused over a period of 200+ years then there is no hope for reconciliation. As far as Howard is concerned, yes, he aligns himself with the most common denominator instead of leading and educating. He spent millions on promoting his GST (sorry, educating) but what has he spent on educating non-Aboriginal Australians about the true history of this land? He doen't even want to know the true history of this land. Those same people who agreed with John Howard should also have been asked what they knew about Aboriginal dispossession and disadvantage - it would have been very revealing! Trudy Karen Crook wrote: The difference with your examples is that you are saying it to someone you know and love. Saying sorry to a race is entirely different - you say it to a group of people you could never know personally. >The office of PM demands that he represent all Australians. The problem with John Howard >is that he doesn't understand the demands of his office. He thinks it's his personal fiefdom. Wasn't there an article in all the major media 2 nights ago stating that a recent poll showed a large majority (over 50%) of Australians agreed with John Howard?? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Monday, 13 March 2000 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen Crook wrote: I do understand the story and it is very sad. Over time most people never forget but they do move on. It's not about whether the other person or their children apologise, it is about yourself becoming stronger and moving on with life. Everyone has suffered some sort of hardship in their life. But no matter how much the anger stays with one you cannot expect someone who had nothing to do with the original sin to apologise. It's like admitting to a crime you did not commit! Karen, When someone you know dies, do you say to the survivor: ' I can't say I'm sorry because I had nothing to do with it and it's not my fault!' or do you say 'I'm sorry for your loss'? If a friend of yours is raped or bashed, do you say: 'Too bad, I had nothing to do with it, you just have to deal with it' or do you express empathy and understanding and acknowledge your friend's suffering by saying, 'I'm so sorry this happened to you'? Saying sorry is not an admittance of guilt. Saying 'sorry' is saying that you feel the pain, that your share the grief. It is only when grief is acknowledged and allowed expression that anyone can move forward in a positive way. It is only when all Australians who today benefit from the dispossession and suffering of Aboriginal Australians acknowledge that dispossession and suffering instead of turning away, that reconciliation can begin. It is the first step of many others that are necessary. The only way that all Australians can do this, is for the PM to do this on behalf of all Australians. It has nothing to do with his personal beliefs - they are irrelevant. The office of PM demands that he represent all Australians. The problem with John Howard is that he doesn't understand the demands of his office. He thinks it's his personal fiefdom. Trudy
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
I am forwarding Graham Young's message which bounced because it was too long. Please, everyone remember to remove the older parts of messages that are not needed for clarity. Trudy ** Karen, I am sorry that you feel that I was attacking you. That wasn't my = intention at all. I am trying to understand what you think, and the = only way to do that is to start with the most basic concepts and then = work upwards. There has got to be some point where we can all agree on = something. Once we have reached a point like that it then allows us to = move back up the trail and find where we disagree. At the moment we are = disagreeing at a point so far down the track that we have moved too far = away from each other to be able to communicate. Trudy put an example to you which was a model for Aboriginal = dispossession and injury. You seemed to accept that there was a moral = wrong involved. I sought to clarify if that is what you thought. So = it wasn't something that I brought up at all. It was something that had = come up in your conversation with Trudy. Why do I think that you are copping out? Because this is a basic = question, and I don't see how anyone can carry out a discussion on = reconciliation without having formed an opinion on it. I certainly = think, reading your posts, that you have formed an opinion. If you = truly haven't formed an opinion on it, then you need to. I don't spend = my time researching Aboriginal issues on the net, or anywhere else for = that matter. The research to make a decision on whether the settlement = was right or wrong is easy to come by. Most of what I know comes from = the major newspapers. The reason that I brought up Terra Nullius was because it is about the = only defence against Aboriginal dispossession being wrong. What the = doctrine said was that this land was not owned by anyone before the = European settlers appeared. The Aborigines and Islanders were here, but = they were thought not to have any right or title in the land. That = entitled the Europeans to settle where they liked and set up their own = system of title. This was the law of the land until the Mabo decision, = which involved not Aborigines but the Merriam people (Micronesians I = think). They had a system of individual ownership of land unlike that = of the Aborigines and the High Court found that this gave rise to = continuing property rights under our system. In this judgement they = made non-binding suggestions that there might be property rights on the = mainland. The rest is history as succeeding cases have confirmed that = those rights do exist on the Mainland, and have decided what they might = be, and their nature. =20 So, maybe you disagree with the High Court and believe that the land was = originally owned by no-one. If so, perhaps we should start at that = point. =20 Graham Young - Original Message -=20 From: Karen Crook=20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=20 Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Graham says: If you don't know enough, then do us the courtesy of = doing some research and finding out. Karen says:=20 Excuse me but you were the one to bring up this subject in the first = place. I never once mentioned this topic. You mention it last night and = when I reply with an honest answer you shoot me down with a do more = research?!?!?!?! I answered you as honestly as I could by saying that I could not give = an informed opinion on something I did not know too much about. And whether it is 200 years, 100 years or 50 years - it doesn't matter = what I think. I cannot comment on something I am not that familiar with = or haven't had some experience with. I'm giving my opinions on things = that I have seen, heard and witnessed during my time. It is not a cop out but the statement of truth.=20 And as I am working all day WITHOUT the internet I only get to play = with it at home at night. So I do not spend all my time researching "the = High Court's overturning of the doctrine of Terra Nullius which found = that in fact the indigenous peoples had title to this land before the = Europeans came." I do have other things to do. =20 So don't attack me for giving you an honest "I don't know enough". You = brought it up, not me. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes
[recoznet2] SMH Editorial: Punishment on principle
The Sydney Morning Herald Editorial: Punishment on principle Date: 14/03/2000 THE division within the Senate committee on mandatory sentencing is a measure of how easily side issues can contaminate a question of principle. The minority report by the two Liberal senators, Helen Coonan and Marise Payne, subordinates the justice principle inherent in mandatory sentencing to secondary questions of less importance. It is a sad surrender which cannot help but be seen as driven by political rather than moral considerations. Senator Coonan and Senator Payne fully acknowledge the moral objections to mandatory sentencing. To that extent, they agree with the majority of the Senate committee. But they do not accept the majority recommendation, which is that the Northern Territory and West Australian mandatory sentencing laws be overturned as far as they apply to children. Both senators say it is preferable that the NT and WA put their own houses in order. Anything more is a last resort. Senator Payne concedes that if, after encouragement to change its approach, "the operation of the Northern Territory mandatory sentencing law remains incompatible with out international obligations, I recommend that the Commonwealth government should intervene". And Senator Coonan says the "injustice [of jailing children when they should not be] is so grave that if the States and Territories will not free them then the Commonwealth, where it has the power, ought to do so". Senator Coonan and Senator Payne cannot have it both ways. They condemn mandatory sentencing of children, as the rest of the committee does. But they conclude that another principle - that of non-interference in State or Territory law making powers - is important enough to prevent them from simple endorsement of Commonwealth action to ensure the laws which include objectionable provisions relating to mandatory sentencing of children are overridden. In the light of the political reality in WA and the NT, they must know that their faith in persuasion and moral reasoning as the way to ensure the objectionable laws are changed is unjustified. The federalist argument can be carried only so far. The history of Commonwealth law-making in the late 20th century has abundant examples of Federal laws made to apply in all parts of Australia. It is true that the search for uniformity has usually occurred in a climate of consultation. States have not been bullied or overridden so much as persuaded. But States' rights to go their own way in all of their constitutional areas of legislative power can no longer be regarded as absolute. And as for the Territories, the Howard Government is caught with its own precedent of overriding the Northern Territory euthanasia law. In the Senate committee report there are many references to Australia's international obligations. But the questions of principle raised by laws for the mandatory sentencing of children do not depend on what the United Nations or its agencies might say. The reason for rejecting the NT and WA laws is not the need to comply with international agreements. It is because the laws are wrong. Put simply, children should not be imprisoned unless there is no other appropriate way to deal with them. Mandatory sentencing to jail does not allow a judge or magistrate to apply other punishment. Punishment without discretion or regard to the individual cannot go to the causes of crime. In the case of a child, vulnerable and unformed as an individual, that is a grotesque injustice. These arguments will not convince those who refuse to see those most affected by the WA and NT laws - young Aborigines - as individuals. But they should convince the national parliament and ensure action, sooner or later, against mandatory sentencing laws. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] HTML postings
Hi everyone, I have asked this before but people just seem to forget or not care - would you please not post in HTML to Recoznet2? Some people's email systems can't handle it and for ease of discussion, it is impossible to cut into to address specific points. There is no need for HTML unless it is to keep columns in order so please post in straight text. Thank you, Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Conscience vote unlikely on mandatory sentencing
Graham, Here is an expanded list from one of this morning's articles: "Moderate number cruncher Mr Christopher Pyne confirmed in a statement that moderates would not support the Senate legislation. Mr Pyne did not return calls yesterday, nor did other Liberal dissidents. They include NSW members Dr Brendan Nelson, Mr Bruce Baird and Ms Danna Vale, and Victorians Mr Peter Nugent and Mr Petro Georgiou. It is understood they could not find any Cabinet minister willing to fight for the cause in Cabinet." Trudy Graham Young wrote: Dear All, A note on the ABC story, and lobbying Liberal MP's. When dealing with the Liberal Party you should always bear in mind that its members effectively have the right to a conscience vote on every matter, even if they seldom see the need to exercise that right. In the Labor Party a vote against the government is grounds for automatic expulsion. The Liberal Party deliberately avoided that situation, and Liberal Party members (parliamentary and otherwise) routinely boast about that difference. What a conscience vote means is that there will be no party line. But the fact that there might be a party line should not be used to deflect attention from the fact that any party line is ultimately not binding on Liberal Parliamentarians. Those who support the Brown legislation shouldn't be allowed to hide behind talk of "conscience votes" as though their hands are tied. They aren't. That there is even a suggestion that there should be a "conscience vote" indicates that there is a wide body of belief in the party that this is such a serious issue that there should be no party line. That being the case it elevates the issue to the point of importance where it should be easier, not harder, for members to cross the floor. The ABC journalist is reading this part wrongly. A number of lower house MP's have been cited as seriously concerned. The only two I can recall from this morning's press are Christopher Pyne (SA) and Brendan Nelson (NSW). Petrou Georgiou also has public views on the matter. Someone might have access to a new article with a more exhaustive list. If you want to put pressure on anyone, I would start with them, pointing to the Liberal Party's proud tradition of allowing individual members a conscience vote on each and every matter. 7 Liberals are needed to cross the floor to pass the Brown Legislation. Graham Young - Original Message - From: David Sjoberg To: recoznet Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:30 AM Subject: [recoznet2] Conscience vote unlikely on mandatory sentencing From ABC fon line Conscience vote unlikely on mandatory sentencing The Prime Minister is under new pressure to allow a conscience vote on mandatory sentencing. The Senate could vote today on whether to repeal the laws in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. The Senate will resume debate today on a Private Member's Bill to repeal the laws for minors. Speakers last night took diametrically different views. The opposition parties support repeal including Northern Territory Labor Senator Trish Crossin. "It is about putting people above party politics," she said. But Territory Coalition Senator Grant Tambling has attacked even his own colleagues who want to repeal the laws. "It particularly saddens me that a few of my Coalition colleagues have jumped on this bandwagon," he said. The bill is certain to pass the Senate by tomorrow and go to the Lower House next month. The Prime Minister has ruled out a conscience vote meaning it is likely to fail. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Fwd: Amnesty: Crunch time for children's human rights in Australia
Fwd: Issued today to Australian media from the International Secretariat of Amnesty International: News Service 048/00 AI INDEX: ASA 12/03/00 14 March 2000 Crunch time for children's human rights in Australia As Australia's Senators debate mandatory detention of juveniles, Amnesty International urged them to give life to the children's human rights the government has promised to protect. The welcome findings of the Senate committee's report on mandatory detention assert federal responsibility for ensuring that Australia's international obligations are met. "Today's parliamentary debate is crunch time for respect for international treaties. If Australia wants to be taken seriously, it cannot pick and choose which treaty obligations matter," the human rights organization said. This is the second parliamentary report in two years recommending alternatives to mandatory detention. If this crucial children's rights issue is not resolved domestically, Australia risks facing further embarrassment before the United Nations (UN) this year. Under mandatory detention laws the courts cannot sentence children according to the seriousness of the crime, their maturity or circumstances. Nor can reparations to victims be taken into account in a mandatory prison term. "The findings on mandatory detention are clear -- it does not serve the community or provide justice for victims. The interests of Australian children should not be subject to politics. Those responsible for upholding Australian values and obligations should take decisive action." ENDS.../ ***= For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in Sydney on 0413 028 191, or in London, UK, on 44 171 413 5566, or visit our website at http://www.amnesty.org -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Report reveals physical abuse of young detainees in NSW
Report reveals physical abuse of young detainees in NSW centre Source: AAP | Published: Tuesday March 14, 2:20 PM A damning report into the causes of four riots at a NSW juvenile detention centre last year has revealed a culture of physical and verbal abuse of detainees by staff. The report uncovered an almost routine use of physical force and confinement of problematic detainees that, in at least one case, resulted in a serious assault on a detainee. The Investigation Into Kariong Juvenile Justice Centre report, released in state parliament today, revealed departmental officers knew the Central Coast centre was suffering from poor staff morale, limited detainee programs and inadequate supervision of team leaders, but failed to act. The report said that in three incidents where force was used at the centre, the detainees were injured. But despite the seriousness of the incidents, records of them were nearly always incomplete, absent or misleading. Staff were often in fear of reprisal from more senior officers, and some staff singled out Aboriginal detainees and used racist language to them. NSW acting Ombudsman Chris Wheeler recommended Kariong be wound down as a maximum security facility. He also recommended that new juvenile detention centre staff in NSW undergo psychological testing to determine their suitability for the job and to weed out inappropriate officers. Mr Wheeler said staff should be rotated from juvenile detention centres every four to five years to ensure they did not become burnt out. 'This was a major investigation ... to find out why things got out of control at Kariong,' he told reporters. 'Our investigation found that Kariong was a severely dysfunctional centre at the time the riots occurred. ... Morale was dangerously low. 'The senior management team was burnt out from being at the centre too long and had become distant from staff, while the supervision and support of staff was severely deficient.' He said the daily management of the centre was often left in thehands of staff with limited skills. There was also poor staff training in safety and security. In his investigation into the riots, he said it was remarkable no-one was killed or seriously injured. Several detainees tried to hang themselves during the riots last March, he said. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
Karen Crook wrote: I do understand the story and it is very sad. Over time most people never forget but they do move on. It's not about whether the other person or their children apologise, it is about yourself becoming stronger and moving on with life. Everyone has suffered some sort of hardship in their life. But no matter how much the anger stays with one you cannot expect someone who had nothing to do with the original sin to apologise. It's like admitting to a crime you did not commit! Karen, When someone you know dies, do you say to the survivor: ' I can't say I'm sorry because I had nothing to do with it and it's not my fault!' or do you say 'I'm sorry for your loss'? If a friend of yours is raped or bashed, do you say: 'Too bad, I had nothing to do with it, you just have to deal with it' or do you express empathy and understanding and acknowledge your friend's suffering by saying, 'I'm so sorry this happened to you'? Saying sorry is not an admittance of guilt. Saying 'sorry' is saying that you feel the pain, that your share the grief. It is only when grief is acknowledged and allowed expression that anyone can move forward in a positive way. It is only when all Australians who today benefit from the dispossession and suffering of Aboriginal Australians acknowledge that dispossession and suffering instead of turning away, that reconciliation can begin. It is the first step of many others that are necessary. The only way that all Australians can do this, is for the PM to do this on behalf of all Australians. It has nothing to do with his personal beliefs - they are irrelevant. The office of PM demands that he represent all Australians. The problem with John Howard is that he doesn't understand the demands of his office. He thinks it's his personal fiefdom. Trudy
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
Hi Annette, Of course you can use it. Just change or omit the names to protect the guilty. ;-) Trudy David Sjoberg wrote: Dear Trudy,Thanks for your scenario - it puts together so many aspects of this issue in a simple and effective way. I have written some songs that come out of my experience of being a white person on this land, and I am planning to do some workshops in schools in Adelaide singing and discussing this stuff. Would you mind if I use your scenario?THanks againAnnette -Original Message- From: Trudy and Rod Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: RecOzNet2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, 12 March 2000 3:01 Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I don't know why you are so defensive about your age. There are many young people on the list. Some younger than you are. You ask why an apology is necessary and how it will make reconciliation work. An apology is only a part of reconciliation but a very necessary part. Let me pose you a scenario: You are married and have children. You live with your extended family on a very productive farm and everyone gets along pretty well and have enough to eat. Then, some people you've never seen before come onto your farm and begin shooting your family. Your husband and 2 of your 5 children are killed right in front of you.. Most of your extended family, your mother and father, aunts and uncles are killed. Some of the men come and rape your two young daughters and bash your young son. Almost all the people you have known and loved all your life are dead and you have no one to comfort you or to help you. They take your farm and everything on it and leave you a small plot to live on but only if you work the farm for barely enough food to live on. You have no choice because you don't want your children to starve to death so you work for the people who took everything you loved from you. Eventually, your two daughters give birth to a child each but they look different from your family and before long, the people you work for tear the the children away from your daughters and leave with them. You are grief-stricken for your daughters and the loss of your grandchildren, you are angry but helpless to do anything about it. Your son has never been the same since his bashing and is sullen and refuses to do anything except destroy everything he touches. You can't reach him no matter what you do and you fear for his life. Your daughters become distant and begin drinking to forget what has happened to them and one morning you find one of them dead. She is 18. The years pass and you are now getting old. The people who took everything from you are dead and their children are now in charge. They still make you work hard and give you a little extra now and then. Then, one day they come to see you. They want everything that has happened to be forgotten. They now want to live as equals. They offer to give you a bit more land so that you can grow things for yourself and have a bit more to eat. Of course, you will no longer get anything extra from them. Also, the conditions attached to this land are that everything is to be done as they instruct. You cannot follow the practices of the past. They offer to educate your new grandchild but insist on choosing what is taught and only in their language. They want to go forward as if nothing has happened and they want you to forget what their parents did to you and your family and not live in the past. They refuse to apologise because they don't feel responsible for what their parents did even though they know what their parents did and they are growing rich on what the farm produces. They cannot even bring themselves to tell you that they are sorry for what you have suffered How would you feel, Karen? Would you forgive them and go forward as if nothing had happened? Would you think you now had equality? Would you betray the love of your children and parents and their deaths and agree to forget so that they could feel better? Trudy Karen wrote: > Tim, >Just because he doesn't believe in saying sorry doesn't mean he doesn't believe in people living as >a nation united!! >There is no need for a sorry - how will it make reconciliation work? >Can anyone even answer that question? Karen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tdunlop Sent: Saturday, 11 March 2000 9:09 AM To: RecOzNet2 Subject: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Trudy wrote: Howard is saying nothing new but I think the time has come for people to ask him to prove his 'commitment'. So far, all his actions have proved the opposite. --- Trudy Trudy, Not just his actions, but his words. I can't believe anyone at all can take him seriously on this. I can't believe he has the nerve to come out of a meeting and say, once again, that he's committed to reconciliation. It's only a week ago on 3AW that he said: "What baffles me about this (reconciliation) i
[recoznet2] Pryor's cartoon
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news2/opinion/opinion3.shtml Pryor's cartoon in the Canberra Times is at the URL above. Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] UN provides Australia with mandatory sentencing advice
I wonder how much the government spent on lobbying the UNCHR for a tame report? --- Trudy UN provides Australia with mandatory sentencing advice Source: AAP | Published: Monday March 13, 3:49 PM The United Nations has reminded the Australian government of international obligations on sentencing children, including that incarceration should be a last resort. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer released the UN reference paper today which advises the government of obligations relevant to mandatory sentencing. These include the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. 'The UN paper does not focus specifically on Australian law and practice, nor does it make any judgments about Australia's conformity with international standards,' Mr Downer said in a statement. 'The paper confirms the view expressed by the (UN) Secretary-General (Kofi Annan)during his recent visit that the mandatory sentencing issue remains one of domestic responsibility.' But the paper contains concerns raised in 1997 by the Committee on the Rights of the Child about mandatory sentencing in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. 'The committee is also concerned about the unjustified, disproportionately high percentage of Aboriginal children in the juvenile justice system and that there is a tendency normally to refuse applications for bail for them,' the paper said. 'The committee is particularly concerned at the enactment of new legislation in two states (NT and WA) where a high percentage of Aboriginal people live.' The paper was produced by the UN Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson and UNICEF at the request of Mr Annan. Opposition Leader Kim Beazley had requested UN advice on mandatory sentencing during Mr Annan's Australian visit. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Peter McGrath
Yes, Lance Kelly also left but he did not give his reasons. Trudy karyn fearnside wrote: Trudy, did Lance Kelly also leave, and if so did you find out what his reasons were? yes it is awful that Peter had to leave. karyn __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Don't forget to watch 4 Corners tonight!
A Well Founded Fear of Persecution ABC TV: Monday, March 13, 8.30pm Repeated: Tuesday, March 14, 1pm MEN accused of no crime put in jail, bound and gagged, verbally abused, forcibly and repeatedly injected. This litany of alleged human rights violations comes not from some Third World dictatorship, but from Australia. Next Monday, 4 Corners reveals how Australia is downgrading its human rights record through its treatment of asylum seekers who have travelled across the world to escape persecution. Reporter Chris Masters has investigated how and why Australia is getting tougher on the rising number of people seeking refuge here. In the process he has gathered direct evidence of asylum seekers being forcibly and repeatedly injected with sedatives and housed in prisons when no crime has been committed or alleged. Asylum seekers who spoke to 4 Corners claim they have been treated like animals. One doctor involved with the issue tells the program: "I was appalled and ashamed that that sort of treatment can happen in Australia I cant believe that the country that my kids are going to grow up in has purposely built this system." Chris Masters has gained unprecedented access to the previously hidden world of detention centres. He gives a comprehensive account of conditions in which asylum seekers live and the hurdles they must overcome in their quest for permanent refuge. Masters also reveals how the Australian Government contracted a private foreign company to move one group of asylum seekers out of Australia. In an expulsion which turned into a schemozzle, the Government of the country to where the men were shifted insists it was given no warning they were being sent, and that they were virtually dumped there by Australia. A Well Founded Fear of Persecution. 4 Corners, Monday 8.30 pm. ALSO: After the program, put your questions and share your views with reporter Chris Masters, producer Matt Brown and 4C's online audience in the 4C Forum (10:30pm AEDT Monday). Read Chris Masters' bio and browse his previous stories for 4C. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] DEMAND TO IMF AND WORLD BANK
Does anyone know who is sending these off-topic posts to Recoznet2? I have tried to get us taken off the list but the people at the address in Denmark insist we're not subscribed to their list. This means that someone is forwarding it and hiding their own address. If it is someone on this list, would you please refrain from sending this? If not, I would love suggestions as to how I can get us taken off. Trudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *DEMANDS TO IMF AND WORLD BANK* This is a call for endorsements of demands that 50 Years Is Enough Network is making to the World Bank and IMF in relation to their semi-annual meetings in April. We encourage broad circulation and sign-ons by ORGANIZATIONS supporting the mobilization and/or who support global socio-economic justice. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
Karen, I don't know why you are so defensive about your age. There are many young people on the list. Some younger than you are. You ask why an apology is necessary and how it will make reconciliation work. An apology is only a part of reconciliation but a very necessary part. Let me pose you a scenario: You are married and have children. You live with your extended family on a very productive farm and everyone gets along pretty well and have enough to eat. Then, some people you've never seen before come onto your farm and begin shooting your family. Your husband and 2 of your 5 children are killed right in front of you.. Most of your extended family, your mother and father, aunts and uncles are killed. Some of the men come and rape your two young daughters and bash your young son. Almost all the people you have known and loved all your life are dead and you have no one to comfort you or to help you. They take your farm and everything on it and leave you a small plot to live on but only if you work the farm for barely enough food to live on. You have no choice because you don't want your children to starve to death so you work for the people who took everything you loved from you. Eventually, your two daughters give birth to a child each but they look different from your family and before long, the people you work for tear the the children away from your daughters and leave with them. You are grief-stricken for your daughters and the loss of your grandchildren, you are angry but helpless to do anything about it. Your son has never been the same since his bashing and is sullen and refuses to do anything except destroy everything he touches. You can't reach him no matter what you do and you fear for his life. Your daughters become distant and begin drinking to forget what has happened to them and one morning you find one of them dead. She is 18. The years pass and you are now getting old. The people who took everything from you are dead and their children are now in charge. They still make you work hard and give you a little extra now and then. Then, one day they come to see you. They want everything that has happened to be forgotten. They now want to live as equals. They offer to give you a bit more land so that you can grow things for yourself and have a bit more to eat. Of course, you will no longer get anything extra from them. Also, the conditions attached to this land are that everything is to be done as they instruct. You cannot follow the practices of the past. They offer to educate your new grandchild but insist on choosing what is taught and only in their language. They want to go forward as if nothing has happened and they want you to forget what their parents did to you and your family and not live in the past. They refuse to apologise because they don't feel responsible for what their parents did even though they know what their parents did and they are growing rich on what the farm produces. They cannot even bring themselves to tell you that they are sorry for what you have suffered How would you feel, Karen? Would you forgive them and go forward as if nothing had happened? Would you think you now had equality? Would you betray the love of your children and parents and their deaths and agree to forget so that they could feel better? Trudy Karen wrote: > Tim, >Just because he doesn't believe in saying sorry doesn't mean he doesn't believe in people living as >a nation united!! >There is no need for a sorry - how will it make reconciliation work? >Can anyone even answer that question? Karen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tdunlop Sent: Saturday, 11 March 2000 9:09 AM To: RecOzNet2 Subject: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Trudy wrote: Howard is saying nothing new but I think the time has come for people to ask him to prove his 'commitment'. So far, all his actions have proved the opposite. --- Trudy Trudy, Not just his actions, but his words. I can't believe anyone at all can take him seriously on this. I can't believe he has the nerve to come out of a meeting and say, once again, that he's committed to reconciliation. It's only a week ago on 3AW that he said: "What baffles me about this (reconciliation) issue is that I'm expected to repudiate my own personal beliefs; I'm told that the only way I can show leadership on this issue is to do something I don't believe in." The game was up the moment he uttered this, for once, truthful comment - he doesn't believe in it. But still, his comment about being committed to reconciliation keeps popping like an unflushable turd. Bit like the man himself. I'm flabbergasted. Tim -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html *
[recoznet2] Letters to the editor
There are some very good letters to the editor you might want to take a look at at the URL below http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/11/text/letters.html Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Peter McGrath
I am sorry to have to report that Peter McGrath has left Recoznet2. Sandy and I both tried to get him to change his mind but to no avail. Peter's reasons for leaving were, among others, that he thought we were becoming a very insular group with no tolerance for views other than our own. He expressed some of his feelings on the list and the main one was that if people join Recoznet2 we should accept them as they are and not abuse them if they express a viewpoint different than our own. I think the definition of what is considered 'abuse' will probably vary from person to person on this list but I do think that he had a valid point in that we should consider what will persuade and educate and what will just start an argument. The confrontational rarely persuades. The other thing is something that I must take responsibility for and I am sorry I didn't jump in when I should have when Peter was flamed for asking that people consider their language. From now on, that will not be tolerated again. If one of our members asks for something in a civil and considerate way, as Peter did, then he doesn't deserve to be attacked for doing so. I'm sorry to see him go because we can't afford to lose people like Peter. Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Herron responds to article
The Canberra Times Letters Friday, March 10, 2000 Blick report on Aboriginal bodies I AM WRITING to express my disappointment with your journalist's unprofessional approach and factually wrong article "Herron used security chief to probe black groups'' (March 9, p.3). The Blick report resulted from concerns brought to my attention by both ATSIC and the Registrar of Aboriginal Corporations regarding each other's conduct in relation to the appointment, by the registrar, of administrators to various Aboriginal corporations. As the minister responsible for the effective operation of both agencies, I appointed Mr Bill Blick to conduct an inquiry into the relationship between ATSIC and the registrar's office. Mr Blick did not inquire into the affairs or actions of Aboriginal corporations or "black groups'' as wrongly claimed by your journalist. The report's recommendations reflect this limited focus. Mr Blick did not conduct this inquiry in his capacity as Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, as implied by your journalist. He was appointed because he was independent of any of the parties involved, he had the necessary skills to conduct an investigation, and had previously been Deputy Secretary responsible for indigenous issues within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. Had your journalist bothered to seek a response from my office, her false assertions would have been corrected. It is also false for The Canberra Times to claim that I refused to discuss the Blick report's contents. Your journalist did not even seek a comment from me on this issue. To make matters worse, she did not seek comment from the registrar. Instead she published comments from the Labor Party and did not seek to balance the article by giving me the opportunity to respond. (Senator) JOHN HERRON Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs [Editor's Note: Aban Contractor contacted the minister's office several times before the article was published seeking a copy of the Blick report and comments on her understanding of what the report contained. She was told initially that it was not a public document, later that a copy could not be found and later again that the department had been asked for a copy. A copy was delivered yesterday, after publication of the article. It confirms, as the article stated, that the report contained an extensive list of recommendations by the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, Bill Blick, ''about how ATSIC and the Registrar of Aboriginal Corporations should deal with each other''.] -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Pregnant woman facing mandatory sentence after stealing food
ABC News Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:03 CDT LOCAL NEWS : Northern Territory Pregnant woman facing mandatory sentence after stealing food A pregnant woman from Central Australia may be jailed under the Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing laws for allegedly stealing food and a pram from her ex-husband's house. Theresa O'Sullivan, the lawyer representing the 25-year-old woman, says the case has been set down for hearing in June, when the woman will be nine-months pregnant. She says the woman is alleged to have stolen the food for her five children. "If she is found guilty of these offences because they are property offences that means she will have to serve a mandatory minimum period of 14 days in prison," she said. "The father hadn't left her with enough money for the five children so she was waiting for him to return her account. "It's that at some point some of the kids went into the house and let her in and they started eating some food and then she, they gave her some food to take with them and also gave her the pram for the youngest child who is only 19 months who was falling asleep." © 2000 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] ATSIC Media Release: Minister joins ATSIC Deputy Chairman to launch new Indigenous Radio Station
Forwarded from Christine Howes: ATSIC Media Release 9 March 2000 Minister joins ATSIC Deputy Chairman to launch new Indigenous Radio Station Federal Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Minister, Senator John Herron, will join ATSIC Deputy Chairman Ray Robinson to officially open new indigenous radio station 4RR-FM in Charleville tomorrow. The entire local community has been invited to attend the celebration and tour the facilities for the station, which will broadcast on the FM band at 105.7 Mhz. Funded by ATSIC through the Goolburri Regional Council and operated by the Bidjara Media Broadcasting and Company, the station's new studios in the Bidjara Building in Wills Street will be opened at 1.00pm Friday. Commissioner Robinson, whose home town is Charleville, said he is " very proud to see the dream of a local indigenous owned and controlled radio station finally go to air. "This is economic independence, self determination, self -empowerment and self -employment, all rolled into one. The establishment of the radio station in Charleville is another link in the chain of creating economic, business and employment opportunities for local indigenous people. "This is the latest in a series of business and economic initiatives in Charleville that have seen more than 200 indigenous people employed. Government are just starting to talk about doing this. ATSIC and the community and organisations we fund here in Charleville are already doing it and we're years ahead of them." Commissioner Robinson said he would also be taking the Minister to see other examples of ATSIC-funded local initiatives around Charleville, designed to break out of welfare dependency. These include the Bidjara CDEP with more than 160 participants, Bidjara Housing , which owns or built 22 houses and employs a local building team operating under a qualified builder, as well as locally-owned and run sheep and cattle properties. "So I am very happy that we have the Federal Minister, Senator John Herron, here to help us celebrate that with us, and see for himself what this means for local indigenous people. "This is a great day for Charleville. For the first time, Indigenous people and the non-indigenous audience in the area will now get the 'authentic' voice of indigenous people speaking for themselves, about themselves and the issues the way we see them. "They will be getting that on the hour every hour through the news service on events and issues from around Queensland as well as from the local area." With a mostly country/Murri music format the station's news and programming would also appeal to the wider community, while the voice and views of people from the region would be carried across Australia. 4RR FM will do this by linking into the National Indigenous Radio Service, which provides programs to more than 250 BRACS and community radio stations across the country via satellite. "I am particularly pleased that the need for a radio station, identified by a community survey back in 1997, was now a reality just three years later. Now we not only have our own voice on the airwaves, but we have local people employed here as well," Commissioner Robinson said. The station will employ six full time staff, five of them locals. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Herron used security chief to probe black groups
The Canberra Times Thursday, 9 March, 2000 Herron used security chief to probe black groups By ABAN CONTRACTOR The Federal Government admitted yesterday it had called in the nation's top security watchdog to probe the affairs of Aboriginal groups. Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Herron confirmed that Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, Bill Blick, had been commissioned to investigate the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission and the Registrar of Aboriginal Corporations. Sources said the report contained an extensive list of recommendations about how ATSIC and the registrar should deal with each other with regard to Aboriginal corporations, many of which were set up solely to hold the title to land. Mr Blick, charged with monitoring the legality of phone taps and secret files kept on people by organisations like ASIO, declined to comment on the details of the inquiry, saying it was now in the hands of the minister. The relationship between ATSIC and the registrar, Noureddine Bouhafs, soured recently when hundreds of Aborigines faced eviction after he forced into liquidation the incorporated bodies holding land on their behalf for failing to file annual reports. Sources said there had been tension between ATSIC and Mr Bouhafs ' over his heavy-handed and over-zealous approach' which had seen Aborigines in remote communities, many of whom spoke little English, lose the title to their land. Opposition Aboriginal affairs spokesman Daryl Melham said when reconciliation was on everyone's mind, the decision to use Mr Blick sent the wrong message. ' At best it is insensitive to use someone in Mr Blick's position to investigate indigenous organisations,' he said. ' It takes us back to the days of J. Edgar Hoover who used the FBI to investigate black civil rights organisations.' Despite having the report for several months, Senator Herron has declined to table it or discuss its contents. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Stolen Generations given access to records
ABC News Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:55 AEDT Stolen Generation [sic] given access to records For the first time, members of Australia's so-called Stolen Generations will have unrestricted access to Commonwealth records concerning Aboriginal people. An agreement has been signed between the National Archives of Australia and a Victorian Aboriginal agency to help Koories re-unite with their families. The archives hold more than 100 years of records on Aboriginal history. The president of the Aborigines Advancement League, Rick Henderson, says the agreement has a personal significance. "What it means to me personally and to the Aboriginal community is being able to trace or have records available and for Koorie people or Aboriginal people to trace their family history and give them a form of identity," he said. © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Media release: Apunipima Cape York Health Council
Forwarded from Christine Howes: Media Release: Apunipima Cape York Health Council March 6 2000 State Government Fails Cape York on Grog The Apunipima Cape York Health Council today urged Commonwealth intervention to provide urgently needed alcohol abuse facilities in the Cape York region. "Despite the fact that alcohol abuse is almost epidemic in Cape York there are presently no facilities whatsoever available for people trying to overcome their drinking problems", said Apunipima Director, Ms Kerry Arabena. "There are no detox centres, drying out centres or rehabilitation centres even after the fact that every recent study has found alcohol to be one of the major causes of injury and chronic disease in the Cape. "This situation almost beggars belief, particularly when it was previous Queensland Governments that insisted Aboriginal Community Councils establish beer canteens in the first place," she continued. "Whilst we acknowledge that overcoming the grog problem will need hard work, responsibility and commitment from our own people the Queensland Government must accept its responsibility to provide basic services for those who want to get off the grog. We can only do so much on our own. "Even information about the dangers of grog and other drugs are hard to find in our communities and that is just not good enough". Apunipimas call follows comments by the Alcohol and Other Drugs Council of Australia that Indigenous health is an impediment to reconciliation and that an injection of funds for Aboriginal alcohol and drugs programs is urgently needed. "We welcome the comments from the Alcohol Other Drugs Council and ask that, in light of Queenslands failure to properly address this situation, the Commonwealth directly intervene to fund alcohol treatment and education programs in our region", concluded Ms Arabena, "Dr Wooldridges department couldnt do as badly as the present mob". ENDS -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Magistrate criticises mandatory sentencing
Magistrate criticises mandatory sentencing Source: AAP | Published: Thursday March 9, 2:32 PM A magistrate working under the Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing regime has publicly criticised aspects of the controversial laws. Magistrate Alasdair McGregor today said with courts no longer having discretion in sentencing for certain crimes, police were being forced to take responsibility for dispensing mercy instead of the government. But he also admitted he may have been too lenient in sentencing property offenders before the laws were introduced in 1997. Under the NT's mandatory sentencing laws courts must impose set jail terms, laid out by the government, for property crimes. The Country Liberal Party (CLP) introduced mandatory sentencing in response to home burglaries in suburban Darwin. Federal Parliament is now being urged to overturn mandatory sentencing and a Senate report on the laws in Western Australia and the NT is due for release on Monday. Yesterday NT chief minister Denis Burke released an independent poll, excluding the Northern Territory, which showed that nearly 60 per cent of Australians approved of mandatory sentencing. Mr McGregor admitted that he may have been too lenient on people who had vandalised homes. 'I know the feeling is strong against ransacking, I know the feeling is strong against 'take a dozen eggs out of the fridge and put them through the kitchen fan',' he said. 'I have seen all that in court, perhaps I wasn't tough enough on it.' However, he said he did not see those cases in Katherine. Mr McGregor said jail was harshly impacting on communities outside Darwin, such as in the town of Katherine 314 kilometres south where he has worked for the past four years. 'These young men are coming back (from jail) terribly well-built, terribly well-fed and in some cases terrorising old-age pensioners,' he said. Elders in Aboriginal communities were keen to impose their own punishments on their children, he said. He suggested the government should look at paying for compensation to the victim, rather than spending money on punishment. 'Of course they (victims) want punishment but they'd also like their money back,' he said. Mr McGregor said the NT government had given the police a role in judicial considerations which it should be taking on itself. He said the laws prevented the courts from considering mercy - as required in the NT law - when handing down a sentence andclaimed the government should have taken on that responsibility. However, the police responsible for charging the suspected criminal had ended up with the role, he said. 'Quite clearly, the police are having to do what traditionally the home secretary, the chief minister and the like would be doing after they have been to court,' he told ABC local radio. 'Parliament has clearly felt that the courts were not exercising the combination of justice and mercy correctly but hasn't made very much provision for any one else exercising mercy.' Mr McGregor also revealed he had been angered by Mr Burke's claim last month, since retracted, that the justice system was totally corrupt. 'I heard the Attorney-General say that over my breakfast and I was a little bit angry when I went to work that day, but I'll say no more about that,' he said. Mr Burke, who is also Attorney-General, was forced to apologise for the claim when chief justice Brien Martin threatened to stand down over the comments. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] A language of leadership Howard will never learn
THE AGE A language of leadership Howard will never learn By MORAG FRASER Sunday 5 March 2000 HERE is one kind of leadership, the kind understood and demonstrated by East Timorese resistance leader Xanana Gusmao in his just-published autobiography, To Resist is to Win: "I have learned on the job. My writings show that I have often struggled in my leadership to find new ways and forms to assert the rights of my people in a journey that has demanded of all of us so much patience, empathy, flexibility and innovation." By "innovation", Xanana Gusmao does not mean a new tax regime. And, by "empathy", he does not, I think, have in mind what Aged Care Minister Bronwyn Bishop is having rapidly to acquire, or at least give the appearance of acquiring. What about "flexibility"? Peter Reith uses the word a lot. But I do not think he means by it what Gusmao does. Mostly, it is not Reith's own personal flexibility he is talking about. He wants flexibility from you and me. Political strongmen do not bend and flex. They dominate. And patience? That's what the Prime Minister wants us all to have over the reconciliation process. Put it off for a little longer. Softly, softly. Take another century and maybe by then we won't remember what we meant by it and the problems that follow from the dispossession of an entire people will have gone away. They won't, of course. Any more than America will have rid itself of the scars of slavery. The Indonesian President, Abdurrahman Wahid, was not being John Howard's kind of patient when he joined Xanana Gusmao in the Santa Cruz cemetery in Dili last Tuesday and said, "I would like to apologise for the things that have happened in the past." Mr Wahid also sprinkled petals on the graves of Indonesian soldiers buried in the cemetery, soldiers who died during the 24-year occupation of East Timor. The two gestures - a public apology to the East Timorese and a ritual tribute to the loyalty and endeavors of Wahid's fellow Indonesians - coupled two tragedies in a way that signalled something new, the beginning of a reconciliation process. Who would have believed it possible 12 months ago when Australia was still hedging its bets about East Timor and Mr Habibie was stumbling his way towards "allowing" the East Timorese independence vote? Who would have predicted then that an Indonesian leader - forget the rest of the world leaders: easy for them - would be in Dili, standing at the site of the Santa Cruz massacre and telling some of the truth about it, letting savagery and misery be acknowledged and laid to rest, along with the lives of the East Timorese and Indonesians who died there. But that is what leadership is sometimes about - flexibility and innovation as Xanana Gusmao understands the words. It's about the flexibility to push beyond encrusted positions, the imagination to do something unprecedented but necessary. Something that makes a difference not just to the way a nation's wheels are oiled (read GST) but to the way a nation conceives itself and its future. I will bet Mr Wahid did not consult his polls and focus groups back in Jakarta before he decided to make his historical move forward into a new kind of political space for two countries once implacably opposed. Last week, while Australia was blustering away about not giving in to any UN human-rights pressure on mandatory sentencing (and sounding exactly like China), what the world saw was an elderly man, half blind, wearing a traditional scarf, standing beside another man, still young but greying, who had until very recently been imprisoned in an Indonesian jail. Between them, they have changed something, forever. Neither of them is naive - I'd back the seasoned Wahid against any New South Wales political hardman. Both of them have "learned on the job" and both know that politics is a tough game, but one best played by wily leaders who are occasionally strong enough, or inspired enough, to ignore the rule book. Roosevelt did it. Curtin did it. So did Menzies, with education. We saw it happen under Nelson Mandela in South Africa in the setting up of the truth and reconciliation proceedings. We see it in some individuals in Australia. But not in the current leadership. The news of the postponement of the Australian reconciliation deadline this week elicited a response from the former chairperson of the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation, Patrick Dodson. Mr Dodson displayed his own version of patience when he said that he no longer expected an apology from the Prime Minister, at least not from this one and not in the immediate future. But there was still vital work to be done and he would be getting on with it. Dodson, like Mr Wahid, is a savvy politician and a man with his sights on the future and his political muscle set for the long haul. He speaks a language that Xanana Gusmao would understand. Pity that it's one to which the Prime
[recoznet2] Mardi gras embraces reconciliation, protests tampon tax
Of course, we're looking forward to hearing from the participants! Trudy National 9:47 am AEST March 5 2000 Mardi gras embraces reconciliation, protests tampon tax AAP -- Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade embraced two political themes last night, with the message to the federal government being unmistakeable. The first called for reconciliation between black and white Australia. The second opposed levying the GST on tampons. In an event that began as a protest, evolved into a party and then became the world's biggest street parade, the edge was still there, despite the corporate backing and officials with ear-pieces. Around 500,000 people braved overcast skies and crammed Sydney's Oxford Street for the Mardi Gras last night. As spectators stood on their now-traditional milk crate perches, flesh and exotic costumes went on display early. The procession of Dykes on Bikes, some in leathers, some wearing very little, and at least two dressed as Bananas in Pyjamas' B1 and B2, heralded the start of the world's biggest gay and lesbian event. The crowd roared its approval when a float calling for reconciliation between white Australia and Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders passed down Oxford Street. In an overt political message, reinforced by the applause from half a million pairs of hands, banners proclaimed "Reconciliation Now" and "End Mandatory Sentencing". Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders, their bodies painted with traditional decorations, led a group of people several hundred strong calling for a revised attitude from the federal government. They were followed by the Asian Marching Boys, who in turn preceded another group with a sharp political message for Prime Minister John Howard. The Bloody Marys were dressed as tampons and waved banners proclaiming their opposition to the levying the GST on female sanitary products. Now in its 23rd year, the Mardi Gras has become the only street parade in the world to rival Carnivale in Rio and the New Orleans Jazz Festival for crowd pulling power. Some 1,400 marshals were on hand to ensure the parade progressed smoothly, although the stresses began to tell as the parade wore on. People from all walks of life had come to see one of the world's great spectator events. Six-year-old Xenia Goodwin had taken up her position on the corner of Oxford and Palmer Streets at 2.30pm this afternoon. "I came to see Mogadonna," she said. She was unfazed by spectators clad in everything from jeans and T-shirts to performers in g-strings and thigh high boots. An assistant area co-ordinator for the Mardi Gras, Liz Dods, estimated the crowd an hour before the parade kicked off was just under half a million strong. "But it is building - building quite quickly", Ms Dods said. "It's started building up a little later this year." The crowd continued to build after the parade began. And although the first floats did not begin rolling down Oxford Street until almost 45 minutes after they were scheduled, spectators generally remained cheery. However, people attempting to cross through barriers and other secure areas caused officials the usual headaches. At least two participants took a swipe at recent statements by religious authorities opposing the Mardi Gras. One dressed as a Pope and another as a Protestant Archbishop. They waved a banner proclaiming: "God Loves Men In Drag". But there was a serious side to an event characterised by feather boas, marching boys and SM leather-wear. For the parents of gay offspring, the march was about acknowleding people they'd seen grow up, often ostracised, considered "different". One of them, Alby Olver, marched bearing a photograph of his son, Darren, who died of AIDS in 1994. "I march every year," Mr Olver said. "I told him I would march as long as I have legs on my body ... I told him I would march until I die," he said. Among celebrities who participated in the parade were gay icon Molly Meldrum and deputy federal Australian Democrats leader Natasha Stott Despoja. Other participants took a swipe at John Laws as they wheeled shopping baskets along Oxford Street asking for donations in a send-up of the cash-for-comment affair. Ambulance personnel treated at least two parade participants, and plenty of cut feet from broken bottles among spectators. Police said later there were no major incidents, with few arrests even for minor offences. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this
[recoznet2] [FWD] No Aboriginal reconciliation under Howard
from Reconnet Mungo McCallum: Byron Bay Echo No Aboriginal reconciliation under Howard Tuesday, 29 February 2000 - John Howard's abandonment of the reconciliation deadline this year is really an admission that the process is stuck, and will remain stuck as long as he remains prime minister. Not that this worries him: in spite of an occasional nod in the direction of Aboriginal disadvantage and a few non-core promises to do something about it, Howard has always treated indigenous issues as among the least important on his government's schedule. There are, his advisers insist, no votes in them, and that, for Howard, is where priorities begin and end. Throughout his term as prime minister, he has treated any moves to increase the rights of Aborigines with suspicion and disdain. ATSIC, originally intended as a starting point for self-determination, has been wound back until it is little more than an advisory board for its paternalistic minister John Herron. When the High Court found that Aborigines held some residual land rights over pastoral leases Howard immediately moved to legislate them away and locked Aboriginal leaders out of the consultations. Howard ran a smear campaign against Sir Ronald Wilson, author of the stolen children report, and has stubbornly rejected calls for a national apology. He has failed to implement the report on Aboriginal deaths in custody and refused to overturn racist mandatory sentencing laws. He has attempted to stack Aboriginal institutions with his own nominees, but has behaved so arrogantly and insensitively that even these have turned against him. These are not the actions of a man who is committed to the idea of reconciliation. Howard's approach has always been that of a particularly avaricious pawnbroker: if people want reconciliation they can have it on his terms or not at all, and his terms mean giving away as little as he possibly can. It was the approach he adopted over his absurd constitutional preamble, during which he boasted that if he had given some ground, then by golly he had made the Aborigines give some ground too. There was never any suggestion of generosity, of trying to address the difficult emotional questions involved. It was all dicker, dicker, dicker: how can I get the better of the deal, whatever the deal may be. This has been beautifully illustrated in Howard's dealing with the outcry over mandatory sentencing. The furthest he has come is to reluctantly admit that he is really not sure that it works. This is like confessing that the sky is blue; there are any number of reliable statistics which show conclusively that mandatory sentencing has not reduced the crime rate in either Western Australia or the Northern Territory and has not done so anywhere else either. Howard does not go on to add the obvious: that mandatory sentencing is also cruel, racist, arbitrary and an affront to the independence of the judiciary. He also says that he is not sure that it is in breach of United Nations treaties to which Australia is party but even if it is (as just about every lawyer in the country asserts) then so what? We're not going to have dirty foreigners criticising our peerless record on human rights. This piece of jingoistic buffoonery from Howard, the champion of globalisation, is enthusiastically echoed by the red neck politicians of the far north and west for exactly the same reasons: there are votes in it. With the battlers in the bush falling steadily further behind as a result of Howard's embrace of economic rationalism, and worse to come with the implementation of the GST, they (and Howard) need some kind of scapegoat. Aboriginal kids who steal biros and biscuits because, as much as anything, of a deep sense of alienation brought on by the policies for which Howard won't apologise, make a very convenient one. And if one or two end up killing themselves, well, it's a bit sad, but it certainly isn't the fault of any of the governments involved because it isn't a result of mandatory sentencing. Or so Howard, following the crazy logic of the Northern Territory's chief Burke, now maintains. Thus he will do nothing, at least for the time being: there's no point in imposing deadlines. This, presumably, is the so-called 'journey' that the Australian of the Year Gus Nossal sees Howard embarked upon: one step forward and two steps back. The formal reconciliation process has now been going on for nine years. Under any of the other prime ministers since Menzies (with the possible exception of McMahon) it would be about to become a triumphant reality. Howard now wants it to die with a whimper. Fortunately there are enough decent Australians to keep it alive until we are finally rid of the little muckworm. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html *
[recoznet2] ATSIC outrage at National Party MP arrogance!
Forwarded from Christine Howes: MEDIA RELEASE MEDIA RELEASE ATSIC outrage at National Party MP arrogance! NSW ATSIC Western Zone commissioner Steve Gordon and Regional Councils are outraged at the continuing negative comments made by National Party MP Russell Turner, on relocating Aboriginal communities and that Aboriginal people are not Australian. "Not only are Turner's continued attacks offensive and irresponsible they are incorrect and discriminatory. What is he trying to say, telling Aboriginal people to 'become Australian' 'to become part of this country' and 'contribute to this country?'. Who defines what an Australian is and weren't Aboriginal people the first Australians? Commissioner Gordon said. "Aboriginal people are the only people to work for the dole and have been doing so for over twenty years. Who is he to question our contribution to this country? Turner seems to be unwilling to accept the fact that this country was built on the backs of Aboriginal and Islander unpaid labour and without our contribution this country would never have been founded. "Then he has furthered the assault by trying to claim at that Aboriginal leaders are out of touch with their communities. This is truly astounding. The fact is, Turner is the 'so called' leader who is obviously out of touch and has no idea what's going on in his own electorate let alone those electorates from which he has no mandate but want's to relocate people! "The ATSIC Murdi Paaki Regional Council has developed and implemented a strategy of Community Working Parties (CWP). These CWP's are planning and delivering housing and infrastructure projects with aligned training and employment. The development and implementation of this strategy has been the key reason that the Murdi Paaki Region has recently received an allocation of $11 million from the DAA's Aboriginal Communities Development Program. At Wilcannia the CWP has also been contracted by the State Government to plan and implement the redevelopment of the Wilcannia Hospital. During this project and other housing and infrastructure projects some 18 local Indigenous people will receive formal training in the fields of carpentry and bricklaying. There is also a Coordinated Health Care Project scheme operating that will improve the delivery of health services to all the Wilcannia community. These are just three examples of what's going in his and other communities" said Commissioner Gordon. "Turner's claim that there are too many Aboriginal leaders on $100,000 is again untrue. There are only three ATSIC elected representatives in NSW that receive any where near $100,000 and they certainly don't get super entitlements of he and his colleagues. Turner shouldn't throw stones at glass houses. "Even his own Party leaders have this afternoon totally repudiated his statements, Turner should publicly apologise for these outrageous and malicious attacks said Commissioner Steve Gordon. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] The PM's legacy...
John Howard has been very successful at promoting his point of view to Australians. He is, no doubt, very proud of himself! He will leave his legacy in the wreckage of reconciliation. Maybe it is time that we reassess what we do and see if it isn't possible to begin a national education campaign - run on a shoe-string if necessary. I think it is something we should all seriously look at and see if it is possible to implement. --- Trudy === The Canberra Times Thursday, 2 March, 2000 PM's tax break for new black body By ABAN CONTRACTOR Prime Minister John Howard has given the green light to tax breaks for donations in support of reconciliation, extending his philosophy of social philanthropy to the sensitive area of Aboriginal affairs. Documents obtained by The Canberra Times yesterday revealed prime-ministerial support for the creation of a permanent new body, Reconciliation Australia, to be primarily funded on a tax-deductible basis by individuals and the private sector. Also, a separate, and as-yet-undisclosed, document shows that Australians are overwhelmingly opposed to an apology to Aborigines, adding weight to accusations that Mr Howard's recent comments on reconciliation were poll driven. Reconciliation Australia would replace the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation which concludes its 10-year term in December, according to the internal council documents. The council has recommended former chairman Pat Dodson, who resigned after falling out with Mr Howard over native title and his refusal to apologise to Aboriginal children forcibly removed from their families, be appointed to the new nine-person board. Council chairwoman Evelyn Scott sought Mr Howard's support for tax-deductibility status for the new body. ' The PM has subsequently written to the federal Treasurer highlighting that the Government places a high priority on reconciliation and takes the view that a body funded primarily by philanthropy would be aptly placed to continue the valuable work of reconciliation after council ceases to operate at the end of this year,' the document said. ' The PM has asked the Australian Tax Office to liaise with the council on achieving donation tax deductibility status.' Leading members of the Australian business community have been informed of the Prime Minister's intention to fund Aboriginal reconciliation with private-sector money. They include Coles Myer chief and business tax guru Stan Wallis, and leading lights of the Business Council of Australia, Campbell Anderson and David Buckingham. But a survey conducted for the council by consultants Irving Saulwick and Denis Muller found despite ' a widespread feeling throughout Australia that Aborigines have been badly treated in the past' there was ' little recognition of the effect this may have had on present-day Aboriginal citizens' . Based on a series of 14 focus group discussions across the country in December and January, the survey found little public support for reconciliation. ' Many . . . tend to confuse reconciliation with issues such as Mabo, land rights, and compensation. This makes them nervous,' the survey found. The survey found many participants saw the Draft Document for Reconciliation as ' divisive' , ' backward-looking' , ' based only on the Aboriginal perspective' and ' a high-risk document which would probably be used as the basis for claims' . Also yesterday, it was reported that a Commonwealth Grants Commission inquiry into Aboriginal spending was a year behind schedule after the Government rejected recommendations over its members. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Holiday
Hi everyone, As you probably know by now...Rod and I will be gone for three days next week - Monday through Wednesday - for some communing with rocks, trees, water and sky. Sandy Sanders has generously agreed to take care of Recoznet2 for that time so please direct your questions/gripes and subscription needs to her at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sandy will have full authority of listowner. Cheers, Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Sigh!
Graham, The reason I said what I did is because the leadership of the country sets the tone. Howard did nothing to educate Australians on Aboriginal disadvantage or their rights. In fact he did just the opposite. He supported Hanson. He made political mileage out of racism. All the excuses mentioned in this report quote Howard word for word. There are many Australians who haven't thought this through. Have never bothered to think deeply at all about it but they can read headlines and if they don't think any further, the headlines will stick with them next time someone asks them about it. Or if there is a mention of it in conversation, people will quote what they remember in the headline in order to be included or seem knowledgable. Headlines such as Howard says 'No apology' or Howard says 'we're not guilty', Howard rejects 'black-armband view of history'..etc ad nauseam. I came back to Australia in '89 when Hawke was in. At that time, Australians were much more tolerant, outward looking and hopeful among other things. I remembered Australia as it was when I left in '65 and this was quite different. Under Howard we've gone back to the hardened, intolerant attitudes of that time. He set the tone, not just in his rejection of reconciliation but it has had an effect on people in other areas too. Australians today are far less tolerant, more vindictive and selfish. The mythical 'fair go' attitude that many tried to live by, largely died four years ago. Trudy Graham Young wrote: Trudy, How could you possibly say that a man who just scraped into office at the last election with slightly less than 50% of the popular vote is in a position to dictate public sentiment? I've sat through a number of focus groups, and am not one bit surprised that this one confirms the results of the others. This report is a pretty accurate assessment of where things stand and how people feel. If there is to be genuine reconciliation within any sort of reasonable time span, then this is the reality that has to be grappled with. A change of government won't make reconciliation easier. If anything it will make it harder because the rednecks will feel they have less of a seat at the table. Someone in an earlier post talked about the need for an education campaign on reconciliation. I agree, but you have to understand the terrain on which you are operating, and this report (from the press reports) provides a reasonable map. You (this is not directed personally at you Trudy) also have to be prepared to meet people like Karen where their beliefs are and try to understand why they feel the way they do before you can ever hope to change things. I feel a lot of frustration with a lot of people involved in reconciliation because I think there is too much of what Paul Keating called the "politics of the warm inner glow." There is too much of an "us" and "them" attitude. A tribal cosiness where we reinforce each other's beliefs, and dump on those who are unbelievers. And by dumping on them reinforce their own beliefs. I hope that this report gets wide circulation and causes people who want to see reconciliation occur to think really hard. I am also somewhat shocked that it appears to have taken the Reconciliation Council about 10 years to get around to commissioning such a report. Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there have been earlier ones, but without basic research like this they may well have been blowing most of their $4.5M annual budget chasing the wrongo rabbits down the wrong burrows. Graham Y - Original Message - From: Trudy and Rod Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RecOzNet2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 9:56 AM Subject: [recoznet2] Sigh! Unlike the columnists, I do not believe that Howard has tapped into public sentiment but has dictated public sentiment. Howard's attitude has given the mean-spirited, the racists and the ignorant encouragement to blame the victims. He has set the agenda and he should be held responsible for it. --- Trudy The Sydney Morning Herald The past is the past: most reject apology to Aborigines Date: 03/03/2000 By MICHELLE GRATTAN and MARGO KINGSTON Most Australians are strongly against apologising to Aborigines, fearing this could lead to compensation claims, according to research for the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation. The study of 14 focus groups across the country found deep opposition to key parts of the Draft Reconciliation Document, which includes an apology. "Many saw it as divisive, backward-looking, based only on the Aboriginal perspective, requiring a series of concessions from non-Aboriginal Australians without any corresponding 'give' by Aboriginal people, and a high-risk document which would probably be used as the basis for claims for land and monetary compensation,"
[recoznet2] ABC News comment
Seems I am not alone... Blurb on headline news on ABC TV World at Noon: "Polls reflect Howard's view on reconciliation" Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Ninemsn online poll
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/default.asp Are you opposed to apologising to the Aboriginal community as part of the reconciliation process? Yes No -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Court upholds landmark native claim appeal
Court upholds landmark native claim appeal Source: AAP | Published: Friday March 3, 1:42 PM An appeal by the West Australian and Northern Territory Governments over a landmark Native Title claim was upheld in part today by the Full Court of the Federal Court. The claim included Lake Argyle, part of the Argyle Diamond Mine lease, the Ord River, Kununurra, and the Keep River National Park in the Northern Territory. The WA and NT Governments appealed the Federal Court ruling last year. Today, the Full court of the Federal Court partly upheld the governments' appeal, which means that the mine, the Ord River and all pastoral and mining leases included in the claim remain as Crown land. Essentially, this means that Native Title does not exist on these areas. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Moir's cartoon
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/01/html/cartoon.html Another 'must see' cartoon from Moir! Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Some letters to the editor - SMH
Letters: Another Howard promise bites the dust Date: 01/03/2000 So Aden Ridgeway and Lowitja O'Donohue are disappointed by John Howard's decision to cancel the deadline for reconciliation. Blind Freddy could see that John Howard and his Government have had absolutely no commitment to reconciliation or to indigenous people. This has been obvious from the moment he took office. He slashed indigenous funding, refuses to offer a national apology and supported the rape of indigenous land in Kakadu and South Australia by mining companies; he harangued our people at their own conference, implemented the 10-point plan to stop our land rights, and refuses to do anything about mandatory sentencing. All I can say is, Mr Howard, I hope you enjoy the protests at the Olympics. Kim Bullimore, Cook (ACT). It saddens me, but so often lately I feel a sense of regret on being Australian. Like the time when in Kyoto, Australia became a pariah among industrialised countries by blocking agreement on greenhouse gas emissions; and when our "pygmy" Prime Minister shows the world he cannot get his mouth around the word "sorry". There are other times, such as when a 15-year-old Aborigine commits suicide and highlights our failure to comply with the United Nations treaty on the rights of the child, a treaty we signed and now dishonour. Now we have John Howard demonstrating a lack of vision and leadership by abandoning his stated commitment to reconciliation with our indigenous people. And once I was proud to be Australian. Bill Holland, Westleigh. My fervent hope is that Mrs Janette Howard will intervene in the issue of a Government-led apology to the stolen generation. Surely she occasionally sidles up to her husband after he's had a rough day in Parliament and says, "Sorry you've had a bad day, John", knowing full well that it is not her fault that he has. And I bet the Prime Minister appreciates it when it happens. Mark Stafford, Killara. John Howard loves the classics, doesn't he? Assailed on every side by plunging poll ratings caused by the GST, he performs the classic tory diversionary manoeuvre of chucking a controversial red herring into the works. And what a classic it is: the race card. There won't be reconciliation by the centenary of Federation as promised. (He also promised no GST once, remember?) It's controversial enough to put the GST on the backburner and appeal to the far right in the Coalition, who were getting edgy about liberal Liberals who were showing concern about mandatory sentencing. Not only that, he braves the new arch-enemy, the Murdoch press, to do it (a secondary diversionary manoeuvre, worthy of a champion). This tactic is tried and tested. Remember when the GST returned to the agenda a couple of years back? Now, what was used as a diversionary tactic to make us forget about it? Was it the sell your house to get into an old folks' home debacle? I can't remember. Darned effective, those diversionary tactics. Stuart Lecky, Mayfield West. Silly me. I thought Honest John had said he was committed to "the cause of reconciliation". I didn't realise he meant it was a "non-cause" promise. The man has no shame. Doug Sharp, Long Jetty. Lorraine Nelson (Letters, February 28) makes categorical statements about alleged government policies regarding Aborigines. She says, "The government policy of assimilation resulted in Aboriginal children being taken from their parents right up to the 1970s, not because they were not being properly cared for, but because they were 'light-skinned'." One would hope she has empirical data and incontrovertible fact to back up such a sweeping statement. Which government are we talking about, and where is the proof of her provocative statements? The (in my view largely discredited) Bringing them Home report establishes the myth of the "stolen generation". In NSW, figures show 5,625 Aboriginal children were removed from their families from 1883 to 1969 - an average of 65 a year - and in South Australia over 54 years the average was about seven. Most children were rescued from a life of certain squalor, deprivation and worse. Paul Ford, Currumbin Waters (Qld). The Prime Minister's abandonment of the reconciliation deadline is very disappointing. He has again shown a total lack of leadership. Perhaps he should take a cue from President Wahid, who today visits East Timor. Tony Simons, Lane Cove. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group
[recoznet2] [Fwd: LL:QUERY: mandatory sentencing?]
Original Message Subject: LL:QUERY: mandatory sentencing? Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:16:44 +1100 From: "Mark Sieler" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would someone be able to post a message giving and in depth explanation about mandatory sentencing. I am from NSW and we do hot get as much information about this important issue, in short what is mandatory sentencing? Thanks -- Leftlink - Australia's Broad Left Mailing List mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alexia.net.au/~www/mhutton/index.html Sponsored by Melbourne's New International Bookshop Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=subscribe%20leftlink Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20leftlink --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [Fwd: Reply to Tim Dunlop]
Original Message Subject: Reply to Tim Dunlop Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:32:07 +1100 From: "Karen Crook" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would never actually state that police judge indigenous guilty more than non-indigenous. Because every case is different. Have a look at the recent incidetn where the professor up north allegedly called police officers the Ku Klux Klan - simply for doing their job!! And that quote coming from a person who has allegedly suffered racism all their life. We may never know the full story behind the slur and until we are actually present at an incident as such, we cannot judge who said what. Though in most cases I tend to believe the police as they have a lot more accountability these days and a lot carry micro-cassette recorders for these exact reasons. What I was saying was just that police have a tough enough job as it is and if they pick on someone a little more harshly it's probably because of a number of reasons. Either: - they know the offender or the people the offfender is with (and if they have a record then police know there could be trouble so they go in a bit more aggresively. Who's going to go softly with someone you know is dangerous?), - the offender uses gutter trash language (if you were just a happy drunk chatting to the police they would probably just let you sleep it off, but if you start calling them all names under the sun and perhaps swinging and throwing rough punches, then you will be taken in most likely) - or they look like they will be trouble. And from this I mean presentation - their clothes, hats, shoes etc. Body language, facial expressions. All races have these sort of people you know but if they happen to be Aboriginal, then that is just bad luck. Everyoen knows the same rules apply in your own personal lives. You happen to be walking down the street at night after the movies and see a group of youths up ahead. They are young, drinking alcohol, loud, rude and throwing things. No one in their right mind would continue to walk past them, you either cross the street or get away anyway you can. I have doen it and it never had anything to do with the colour of their skin. "Then the question becomes, do we know that the police are racists? Well the fact that Aboriginal people are 16 times more likely to end up in jail suggests one of two things - either the law is being discriminately applied to Aboriginal people, or Aboriginal people are for some reason 16 times more likely to be criminals than non-Aboriginal people. If you reject racism as an issue then you have only the second option left. If that is the case, then the onus is back on you to suggest as to why it is Aboriginal people are substantially more criminal than other people. Is that what you are saying? What are your reasons?" My opinion is the second option. Just because there are 16 times more Aboriginals in the prisons does in no way suggest racism by officers. It proves to me that these Aboriginals have made some criminal error and are now paying for it. Just like everyone else should. The fact of the matter is that crime has a punishment and they have been caught for their criminal activities. Police are there to enforce the law and then they pass them on to the court system. It is not the police who put them in jail, it is the judge and the jury. And with the legal system in place, everything is accounted for as to why they sent them to jail. Don't go blaming the police for someone else's actions. You seem to blame the police in one instance and then suddenly blame the law. Who is it? You don't seem to make it clear who you think it is that is supposedly racist. Perhaps the reason behind the higher possibility of them offending is because of they way they have been brought up and the conditions they live in. I have seen black and white people who grow up in a household where there is no respect for anyone; alcohol, drug or sexual abuse and a total hate toward everyone who even looks their way. These people have usually gone on to be less productive with their lives than others. All you need then is for them to become teenagers, they start hanging around with other kids who are in the same situations and then you have trouble. They feel they have no one who cares about them. They need to show though they are strong and tough so to do this they often break the law - steal things, break windows, break into cars etc. I've seen kids like this, went to school with them and so too did my sisters. We were always brought up knowing the law and what was right and wrong. Sure we did some minor silly things but we certainly knew not to break the law to end up in jail. Serious crime gives you time. I know I'm not perfect but I do respect other people enough not to break into their homes and steal their TVs etc. These people who do have no respect and need to be told that it is WRONG!! I'd like to introduce to you a point of racism I
[recoznet2] [FWD] SILENT MARCH - MANDATORY SENTENCING
reconnet: reconciliation email network For Brisbane people RALLY AND SILENT MARCH Sunday 5th March In support to Bob Brown's Federal Bill to repeal MANDATORY SENTENCING Rally at 1pm at ROMA ST FORUM Silent March to BOTANICAL GARDENS at 2.30pm MEMORIAL SERVICE at Gardens at 3.15pm Followed by FOOD and sharing time. Bring a WREATH OR FLORAL TOKEN for the Silent March - these will be laid at the Memorial Service. If you are free for an hour tonight to help in planning, making banners etc please come to 2nd floor, TLC Building, 16 Peel Street, South Brisbane at 6pm. Plenty of parking. Quick supper at 7pm for those who can stay. ___ ANTaR Qld 27 Cordelia St South Brisbane 4001 Tel: 07 3844 9800 Fax: 07 3844 9562 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] [FWD] Testimonial Dinner for Dr Bob Morgan
reconnet: reconciliation email network Testimonial Dinner for Dr Bob Morgan Jumbunna, Centre for Australian Indigenous Studies Education and Research proudly announces the Testimonial Dinner in honour of Dr. Bob Morgan, Director, Jumbunna CAISER, University of Technology. Dr Bob Morgan, has a life time history of involvement and commitment to Aboriginal education. Recently, Dr. Morgan retired as Director of Jumbunna CAISER. In recognition of Dr Morgan's substantial commitment to Australian Indigenous Higher Education at UTS, and a lifetime commitment to Indigenous education, we would like to extend an invitation to community members to join Jumbunna staff, students and the University of Technology, Sydney in celebrating and honouring this commitment. Dr Morgan's involvement in indigenous education has spanned more than 25 years. In New South Wales Aboriginal education circles Dr Morgan is widely recognised as having championed the cause of Indigenous education at many levels. During his distinguished career Dr Morgan has held several key positions in New South Wales Aboriginal education. His involvement with the union movement, as well as positions held with the New South Wales Aboriginal Education Consultative Groups (AECG), and as Chair of the World Indigenous Peoples' Conference in Education have earned him an international reputation as a formidable player in Australian Indigenous education. Twelve years ago Dr Morgan took up his recently vacated post with the University of Technology, Sydney, as Director of Jumbunna Centre for Australian Indigenous Studies Education and Research. He took the Centre from a mere handful of students to one of the more thriving and dynamic centres in Aboriginal higher education today with more than 300 students and boasting the highest indigenous graduation rate in the country. Throughout this time Dr Morgan has provided a challenging and visionary framework for self-determination in Aboriginal education. He has been a strong and consistent proponent of "cultural affirmation" in the curriculum and has fought hard and successfully for the delivery of culturally appropriate curriculum for Aboriginal people. The testimonial dinner will be held on Friday 31st March, at the University of Technology. Tickets are $25.00 and include a three-course meal and a variety of entertainers and special guests. Tickets are limited so get in early! Tickets can be purchased by contacting: Judith Munro Tel 02-95141913 University of Technology, Sydney PO Box 123 Broadway NSW 2007 -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Liberal MPs give ultimatum to Howard over sentencing
The Canberra Times Tuesday, 29 February, 2000 Liberal MPs give ultimatum to Howard over sentencing By ROSS PEAKE, Political Correspondent Liberal MPs are threatening to cross the floor to vote with Labor unless the Howard Government shows national leadership over mandatory sentencing laws. They are angry the Northern Territory has already snubbed the United Nations' investigation into whether the laws breach Australia's international human-rights obligations. However, they believe a chance still exists Prime Minister John Howard will authorise arm's-length action - by allowing debate on a Liberal Private Members' Bill to override the NT law. A Senate inquiry, now finalising its report, is expected to condemn the laws when it reports late next week. The formal response by the Northern Territory and Federal Governments to that report will be crucial to shaping the attitude of Liberals who are pushing for action. The Labor Party has co-sponsored a private Members' Bill in the Senate with the Greens' Bob Brown. The Bill would override the mandatory sentencing laws for juveniles in the NT and WA. A core of six to eight Liberals is very concerned over the issue. However, these dissidents would only support the Bill if the NT failed to act and its ambit was quarantined to the territory. The crunch for the Howard Government would come if a modified Bill was passed through the Senate by ALP and Democrat senators and sent to the House of Representatives. The Howard Government could lose a vote in the lower House if the ginger group sided with the Opposition. Melbourne Liberal Peter Nugent said it would be harder for Liberals to vote for a Labor motion. ' I would like to see a Liberal private Members' Bill come forward, in the same way as on euthanasia and I think there would be some support for that,' he told The Canberra Times. ' We need to do something about the Northern Territory's laws and if they won't do it I think there is a responsibility on the federal Parliament so you'd have to be prepared to consider it. ' If it was a Liberal private Members' Bill, you wouldn't have to cross the floor so I would hope we would do the right thing and show the initiative and the leadership and do it ourselves.' Adelaide Liberal Chris Pyne said Coalition MPs were waiting to see how the governments responded to the Senate inquiry into mandatory sentencing laws. Asked if he would consider crossing the floor he said, ' It would be an option, failing the Northern Territory taking action itself.' Other Liberals supported the sentiments but pointed out many Liberal and National MPs strongly believed in states' rights. NT Chief Minister Denis Burke promised on Sunday any UN recommendation against mandatory sentencing would be ignored. Australia's top human-rights watchdog said the hard-line stance in Darwin on mandatory sentencing showed the NT Government was immature. Human Rights Commissioner Chris Sidoti said while treaties had no legal enforcement powers, they were consensual documents to which all Australian governments, including the Northern Territory, had agreed. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Anger over politician's suggestion for Aboriginal employment
Anger over politician's suggestion for Aboriginal employment ABC Radio AM - Tuesday, February29, 20008:19 PETER CAVE: A National Party MP has raised the ire of local Aboriginal groups in western New South Wales for suggesting that unemployed Aboriginal people be relocated elsewhere in the country to regain their dignity he says. The comments have angered a local health group which says the politician needs to have his head read. This comes just one day after the Prime Minister was criticised for setting back the process of reconciliation. As Alison Caldwell reports. ALISON CALDWELL: National Party MP for the Seat of Orange, Russell Turner, says he means well. RUSSELL TURNER: I just see it as a tragic waste of people and a tragic waste of taxpayers money being pumped in there continually without a long term solution to what the problem is. ALISON CALDWELL: Writing in the local paper of the weekend Russell Turner says towns like Wilcannia, Bourke and Orange are suffering because of high unemployment. Its not just because the jobs arent there, he says, its because there are too many people with no incentive or intention to work, local Aborigines in particular. Russell Turner says the only solution is to relocate them to places where they will find work and regain some of their dignity and pride in their heritage. RUSSELL TURNER: We have to start seriously look at relocating some of the workforce to where they may get work. Where they may get a better education and where they may get out of that rut and that family influence that they are in in so many of these towns. ALISON CALDWELL: In your article you pointed specifically to Aboriginal groups? RUSSELL TURNER: Well, in Wilcannia, whether we like it or not, the majority of unemployed people in Wilcannia are Aboriginal groups. And theres no getting away from that. And whether we, you know, have to continue to prop up towns like Wilcannia and Bourke and Moree with you know as I said, a tragically high unemployment rates, whether we prop them up forever from one generation to the next. Or whether we start to look at it seriously and look at what can we do for that next generation. Because in a lot of cases the current generation weve lost it. Theres no chance of rehabilitating a lot of the people. ALISON CALDWELL: So would you say lets relocate the Aboriginal population of Wilcannia? RUSSELL TURNER: Im not saying relocate all of them. There may be very well a reason why a lot of them dont want to be relocated. But I think there needs to be some encouragement for some of these towns like Wilcannia and Bourke and Moree and some smaller towns in between. ALISON CALDWELL: So do you regret, in your article, having pinpointed Aboriginal groups? RUSSELL TURNER: Its a fact of life. The vast majority of people in some of these outback western towns that are unemployed with no employment prospects are Aborigines. ALISON CALDWELL: Kevin Read is a coordinator of the Condobolin Aboriginal Health Service. He says Russell Turner needs his head read. KEVIN READ: I would say hes off his rocker. He wouldnt know what hes talking about. ALISON CALDWELL: In pinpointing Aboriginals do you think that hes made a mistake? KEVIN READ: Hes made a big mistake, yes. You see theres probably more non-Aboriginals out of work around this area than what there is bloody Aboriginals. He doesnt know what hes talking about. Hes full of it. PETER CAVE: Kevin Read from the Condobolin Aboriginal Health Service. © 2000 Australian Broadcasting Corporation -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Re: SMH - Games protest area urged
Hi Don, Those were my feelings when I first saw the article. Sort of like being 'allowed' the freedom to think and act for yourself Trudy Don Clark wrote: I don't think an 'accepted' space would be of any value. If we decide to go ahead with our protest it will be on our terms and not a 'nice' agreement with anyone - on the whole. This Association supports keeping the games going, we do not support interruption to the games, but we do support intelligent protest that will highlight to the world the appalling conditions that Indigenous people are still subjected to in this day and age. The purpose of protest, to my mind, is to get a message across to the widest possible audience - and that is what we will do. Don Don Clark President Indigenous Social Justice Association PO Box K555 Haymarket NSW 1240 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There can be no real reconciliation without social justice - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: news-clip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 February 2000 12:33 P.M. Subject: SMH - Games protest area urged Games protest area urged Date: 21/02/2000 By DEBRA JOPSON The Aboriginal leader Dr Lowitja O'Donoghue has suggested that an area be set aside at the Homebush Olympic site for protests during the Sydney Games. "It's not such a bad idea for them to provide a space for protest," Dr O'Donoghue said. "It wouldn't be in the precinct where everything's happening, but they should provide a space where people can be visible." Dr O'Donoghue, who chairs SOCOG's National Indigenous Advisory Committee, told the International Olympic Committee president, Mr Juan Antonio Samaranch, last week it was inevitable there would be demonstrations during the Games, and there should be an official protest site at Homebush Bay. "How else are they going to bring attention [to themselves]? "I don't think it'll just be indigenous people protesting. It'll be anybody who has a cause, because they want to draw the attention of the world community. "This would be broadcast all over the world, so people who feel strongly about the cause will want to have that aired. So why not provide a space?" Dr O'Donoghue said Mr Samaranch had told her it was not an IOC matter, but was for local Olympic authorities to decide. She had then suggested the special site to SOCOG's chief executive, Mr Sandy Hollway. The first question Mr Samaranch had asked was about the prospect of protests, Dr O'Donoghue said. She had replied that although Aborigines and others would demonstrate, it would not be against the Games themselves. "I said: 'We are not a violent people. You can be sure we won't be throwing the first punch'." Dr O'Donoghue said she had briefed Mr Samaranch on indigenous dispossession and told him about the stolen generations, mentioning that she had been removed from her family as a child. She had also explained the issues of deaths in custody and mandatory sentencing. Dr O'Donoghue said she had warned Mr Samaranch that many people's decision to protest would hinge on the Federal Government's response when the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation delivered its final declaration of reconciliation in Sydney on May 27. The Australian Democrats' Senator Aden Ridgeway has revealed that the Prime Minister, Mr Howard, has difficulty with some of the wording of the documents. Dr O'Donoghue said she gained the impression the IOC was "nervous" about protest, but SOCOG's indigenous program manager, Mr Gary Ella, said the meeting had been "nice and cordial". SOCOG's media general manager, Mr Milton Cockburn, said yesterday there was no plan to create a special protest area. An Olympic Co-ordination Authority spokesman said there was no room for such an area. "Space will be extremely limited at Homebush Bay while the venues are in operation. It would be near impossible to allocate any site for protests," he said. There was "extremely limited" access to public areas and "zero public access to the press centre". This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. * This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or
[recoznet2] [FWD] Media Release: re Qld police
Media Release forwarded from Christine Howes: 24 February 2000 Townsville ATSIC Regional Council Chairman calls for "drastic" changes to Queensland police procedures Townsville ATSIC Regional Council Chairman, Mr Eddie Smallwood, says protocols and guidelines on how police go about their work and relations with the indigenous community need to be "drastically" overhauled. Mr Smallwood, a police liaison officer with the Queensland Police Service for five years, but now on leave without pay as a result as his election last month as the ATSIC Regional Council Chairman, says that the first place to start is the training at the Police Academy. Mr Smallwood said his comments followed the "unanimous" decision yesterday by a meeting of all of ATSIC 's elected leaders from across Queensland, which condemned the controversial arrest last week of prominent Aboriginal health advisor Professor Gracelyn Smallwood. Mr Smallwood, who is also a brother of Professor Smallwood, says "a major change in police attitude and relations with indigenous people is long overdue." Mr Smallwood said this is a major issue for the police. And has called for the Queensland Police Commissioner, Jim Sullivan, to order a major review. "'Because it goes the whole question of community confidence in the police. " And I have to say that there is a total lack of confidence in the police in our community. "And any police service that lacks the confidence of the community it is there to serve, is in a lot of trouble. He says that the police service should sit down and meet with the local indigenous community and our law and justice groups and work through this. "So we can help them develop an appropriate package for use at the academy. "I think there is a now an overwhelming case for a major overhaul of guidelines, protocols and procedures on how the police go about their work in our community. "For indigenous people this issue is not just about any one particular person. "It's about an ingrained attitude towards indigenous people. "An attitude that we saw here in Townsville last Friday night. "An attitude we saw in Brisbane just a week earlier in the way police went about arresting young school children at the Murri School. "An attitude we saw identified more than10 years which lead to the Royal Commission into to Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. "An attitude that has clearly not gone away, has clearly not changed. "An attitude that we still have to deal with everyday of our lives in the way that we are treated by police," he said. It is in the interests of everyone in the community, including the police service, that they recognise there is something amiss and that major change is needed, Townsville's ATSIC Chairman said. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Howard abandons deadline
Sounds like someone positioning himself ahead of being embarrassed by a document he has no intention of agreeing with. What exactly does 'true reconciliation' mean in Howard speak? I think we can get a clue in the new emphasis on 'milestones'. He still wants it his way or no way! --- Trudy === The Australian Howard abandons deadline By Political editor DENNIS SHANAHAN 28feb00 JOHN Howard has declared that Aboriginal reconciliation will not be achieved by the December 31 deadline and that real reconciliation will take years. For the first time, the Prime Minister has formally stated that the deadline, set in 1991, for the Reconciliation Council to produce a document of reconciliation by the end of this year will fail. Mr Howard has shifted the Government's emphasis away from the reconciliation document and sought to puncture rising political pressure as milestones in the process such as the national day on May 27, the Olympics and the deadline itself approach without a result. The Prime Minister himself made reconciliation a priority for his second term on election night. "I also want to commit myself very genuinely to the cause of true reconciliation with the Aboriginal people by the centenary of Federation," he said in his victory speech. "We may differ and debate about the best way of achieving reconciliation, but I think all Australians are united in a determination to achieve it." In what is expected to provoke a national outcry, Mr Howard has said that setting a deadline was a big mistake and "too much store has been put in the document (of reconciliation) itself". Mr Howard and his ministers have begun a process of drawing attention to the delivery of services to Aboriginal communities and away from the signing of the reconciliation document, which was initially seen as a "treaty". In an interview with The Australian, Mr Howard said that if he had been prime minister in 1991 he would not have agreed to a formal deadline for reconciliation: "One of the great mistakes we could get ourselves into is to feel that unless we resolve all this by May or December, it's all been wasted. "We won't resolve it by May or December. The reconciliation process will take a long time and it will unfold over a period of years. What really matters are not so much documents . . . these things are all incremental." He said the Government was beginning to emphasise improving services to Aboriginal communities where "progress is being made". The Prime Minister has pinpointed as the main stumbling block the continuing differences over an apology to Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders for the wrongs of previous generations. He has cited widespread community support for his view that "you do not say sorry for something you are not personally responsible for" as a justification of the Government's position and said there is a "disconnect" between his critics and the general community. The Government is aware of the results of a survey conducted by the Reconciliation Council which is understood to show community opposition to an apology to Aborigines for appalling treatment by past generations. Mr Howard's explicit admission that a deadline of December 31 will not be met follows remarks two weeks ago that the process of reconciliation should not be "time sensitive". It is also designed to ease the pressure on government negotiators to come to an agreement within 10 months. He said the Government will do what it can; that he will participate in the May 27 activities; and that "a lot of what the Reconciliation Council is talking about, I support". But he is trying to break free of a deadline. "What it (a deadline) encourages is bad behaviour on both sides. People make demands against a deadline and others dig their heels in. I think it was a mistake," he told The Australian. "(Reconciliation) is a very slow process; it is something that evolves over time." Mr Howard said he would continue to deal with the Reconciliation Council, ATSIC and the general Aboriginal community. -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for
[recoznet2] [FWD] Mandatory sentencing
Forwarded by: "Deaths In Custody Watch Commitee (WA) Inc." [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Forwarded message follows --- Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:49:04 +0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:mandatory sentencing Copies to: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Geoff, I am bitterly disappointed with regard to the ill informed stand that the state labor party is taking on mandatory sentencing. I believe that you are acutely aware that imprisonment fails the community miserably in terms of public protection. To put more and more people in prison for longer periods of time is simply legitimised vengeance which does nothing to heal the effects of crime in the community. Prisons produce more crime and angrier more socially deskilled individuals who, when released, demonstrate enhanced criminal skills and utilise wider networks of associates entrenched in a subculture of criminality. Your stance on mandatory sentencing is NOT TOUGH ON CRIME and I find it quite concerning that this decision is so obviously one of political expediency in the months leading up to a state election. There are alternatives to imprisonment that ARE tough on crime and allow victims some meaningful input, restore confidence in the community and encourage offenders to accept responsibility for their actions. Prison does not achieve any of its claimed objectives... rehabilitation of offenders, deterrence to crime or a reduction in the recidivism rate. Wake up, you are simply wallowing in the shadow of a conservative government hell bent on producing a 'dangerous class' on whom they can blame all society's ills. Show some courage and leadership and search for meaningful alternatives to imprisonment. They are all around you. The communitarian model of restorative justice has been trialed in Timaru, New Zealand. The judge there has reduced custodial sentences from an average of 200 per ! ! year to 30 per year, has reduced court waiting lists accordingly and guess what - there has been no escalation in the crime rate in that jurisdiction. In fact the crime rate has dropped by approximately 10%. LET US SEE SOME INNOVATION FROM THE LABOR PARTY, SOME COURAGE TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE. DOROTHY GOULDING, RESTORATIVE JUSTICE WA 0413478347, 94978061 BRIAN STEELS, `` `` `` 0419907016, 92729141 --- End of forwarded message --- Deaths In Custody Watch Committee (WA) Inc) 119 Mathieson Road, REDCLIFFE, Western Australia, 6104 "The beginning of the cause of deaths in custody does not occur within the confines of police and prison cells or in the minds of the victims. Initially it starts in the minds of those who allow it to happen." Elder Dr. Jack Davis (OA, MBE) * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omen.net.au/~dicwc * -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Welcome to pain, welcome to sadness ...
THE AGE `Welcome to pain, welcome to sadness ...' By DENNIS SCHULZ GROOTE EYLANDT Saturday 26 February 2000 It was the final chapter in a young, sad life. A white Toyota four-wheel-drive carried the body of the 15-year-old to the church and he was laid to rest among the gum trees near a swollen creek in the tropical heat of Groote Eylandt. More than 200 mourners sat in the shade outside the Angurugu Anglican Church, listening to the service as a didgeridoo played. The boy's suicide in a Darwin juvenile detention centre has sparked debate from Canberra to the United Nations in New York about the rights and wrongs of mandatory sentencing. The boy, whose first name is being withheld to observe Aboriginal custom, was serving a 28-day sentence for stealing pens and paint and breaking some windows. His funeral marked the end of a week in which discussion of the NT Government's controversial policy of giving the courts no choice but to impose jail sentences for property crimes turned bitter. His grandfather, Murabuda Warramarrba, summed up the day. "Welcome to pain, welcome to sadness, welcome to grief," he said. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Is the PM blind, or merely a hypocrite?
The Sydney Morning Herald Is the PM blind, or merely a hypocrite? Date: 25/02/2000 COMMENT by MARGO KINGSTON Poor Kofi Annan. He came to Australia to say thanks for East Timor. Then the tragic death of an Aboriginal boy incarcerated for petty theft under the Northern Territory's barbaric mandatory sentencing laws transformed a slow-burn issue into a national scandal. What could Annan do? The Government's own human rights watchdog had repeatedly urged it to overturn the laws, which breach the UN Rights of the Child Treaty, and the Greens, Labor and the Democrats were sponsoring legislation to do so. Howard was in holding pattern, delaying a decision until a parliamentary committee made recommendations, and publicly warned Annan not to raise the issue when they met. Annan complied, but did tell Labor privately he would investigate. Howard yesterday spat in his face, abusing Annan's tact to claim it meant that the UN did not believe we were in breach of the treaty. That was breathtaking enough, but then he used that piece of cynical sophistry to justify a much harder line. Now, he says, the jailing of children for stealing biscuits or coins is "not really the sort of thing that you intervene in". "Criminal law is one of those fundamentally State issues."(That didn't stop the Liberals supporting Labor's sexual privacy law in the early 1990s overturning Tasmania's criminal laws against gays, or his own overriding of the NT's euthanasia law.) Annan "spent an hour with me and he didn't raise the matter [of the rights of the child treaty]," Howard said. But Howard had warned him not too, hadn't he? "Hang on, if we were clearly in breach of - irrespective of what I said - he would have put a view [and] he made it very clear, very clear indeed in his speech to the National Press Club that he did not regard Australia as being in any way out of line." Is he joking? This is what Annan said. "I'm sure Australia is conscious of its [international human rights] commitments in this regard and since the Government is dealing with it I don't think I should be drawn into this. I don't think it is something that they have ignored or brushed under the table." Well, Mr Annan, John Howard looks like he will ignore it, and use you to justify himself. That means victims of NT and WA barbarism will have exhausted their domestic remedies and a complaint will be made to the UN. What will Howard say when it finds the laws in breach? Easy - he'll do what he did when the UN human rights committee found that the Wik law was racist. He'll say the UN is wrong. For John Howard, stopping old people in pain ending their lives in dignity is more important that stopping distressed Aboriginal children killing themselves in jail. As he said yesterday, "I think this whole thing has got out of proportion". This material is subject to copyright and any unauthorised use, copying or mirroring is prohibited. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Justice Maurice comments
Forwarded for Stephen: I am trying to locate a text of former NT Supreme Court judge Justice Maurice's comments that he might have stood down as a judge if he had been forced to implement mandatory sentencing laws. Can anyone help? Stephen Bennetts --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
