date:20060123




Here's the thing guys.
 
The entry of the Supra spells the end of our hobby in a lot of ways and is 
going to cause all sorts of chaos in the impound tents!
 
Instead of JW, DP, GordySoar, we'll all be reduced to our Supra production 
numbers!
 
Think of it...
"Number 42 which frequency are you on?""Who's number 42??? No not 
frequency, Supra number!"
 
Its gonna be ugly and I think prophesied in George Orwell's novel of a 
bleak future
 "Number 1984what Does Your Tail Boom Wweigh?"
 
I can see this year's F3J fund raiser shirts saying, "I am NOT number 
42!"  Yep Butch will have a shirt on that says "I beat number 42"or 
what ever my number designation will be when my two Supra's show up. 
 
Whoa is me
Gordy

RE: [RCSE] Tow Freqs...

59 and 60 are the Tug freq's for the JR Aerotow. 
 
 

-Original Message- 
From: Ben Diss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Mon 1/23/2006 8:12 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: Johnny Berlin; Lee Estingoy; soaring@Airage.com 
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Tow Freqs...



Jack-  I wasn't aware that were regular freqs for tugs at major
events.  I towed at JR last year and had no idea.  What are those freqs?

-Ben

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Fellas,
> I have to agree with Jhonny and the Dog,
> We have been using fixed Freqs at Major Tow events for years.
> The Same ones. everyone expects what freqs that will be used.
> 
> I won a donated radio from the Great people at JR, and put it in Bacus
> and My Tug. The radio is on 57, which is fine for SOAR events... Not
> true for the Nats.
> 
> I hope to help Johnny this year...a little.And, needed to get with
> the program
> 
> Thanks for the Bandwidth...
> CJ
> 
> --
> Jack Strother
> Granger, IN
>
> LSF 2948
> LSF Level V #117
> LSF Official 1996 - 2004
> CSS Gold
>
> 
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "Johnny Berlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Lee, We have used this system for as long as I have been towing. 
It
> works for us.
> 
> If we stay with this then everone will know what the tug freqs are
> and there will be no problems. And ( in my opion) we dont need 
more
> than 2 freqs for the tugs.
> 
> Johnny and Butch
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Lee Estingoy 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ;
> soaring@Airage.com 
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch
>
> Guys,
> 
> I've made a suggestion that we consider putting tugs on freq's
> that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  
Then
> we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier
> to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is
> conflicted by the glider guy.
> 
> Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep the tugs 
on a
> channel divisible by 10!
> 
> If you don't like that idea, please come up with another that
> establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will 
be
> easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens
> to be on...
> 
> Lee Estingoy
> Counsel
> Castle Creations, Inc.
> 
>
> - Original Message -
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> To: soaring@Airage.com 
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 AM
> Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch
>
> Johnny,
> I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is
> it 58 and 59???
> Can you help
> CJ
> --
> Jack Strother
> Granger, IN
>
> LSF 2948
> LSF Level V #117
> LSF Official 1996 - 2004
> CSS Gold
>
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RE: [RCSE] JR Aerotow date

Sorry for my error. It is May31st through June 4th.
JD

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Deck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Mon 1/23/2006 4:20 PM 
To: RCSE 
Cc: 
Subject: [RCSE] JR Aerotow date

 I thought that the JR aerotow event in Illinois was in June sometime.  
Is
the date different this year?
Jim Deck

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[RCSE] ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE about assisted soaring, value of winning.

2006-01-23 Thread Harley Michaelis

I am rarely motivated to add to other conflicting opinions, but have a
little different perspective on the competition thing. Bear with me, please.

Way back in grade school I could outrun anyone my age. When I entered high
school, I could outrun anyone there. My chances for getting into college
hinged totally on getting an athletic scholarship in track. I competed gung
ho with that in mind. It got me a 4 year college tuition scholarship. I paid
for everything else by working and also supported a wife from my sophomore
year on. I was a daddy in my senior year, too. Staying competitive in track
was *essential* to graduating.

After graduation and WW2, at 25 I entered a career selling field for 40
years that required staying competitive. It was *essential* to making a
decent living.

I'd been a free flight enthusiast early 1940's but got tired of chasing the
things. Latter 1960's, I heard about the fledgling sport of R/C sailplanes.
I was intrigued with the idea of thermalling and landing nearby. After a
couple of years of bad experience with poor radio equipment I got a Kraft 3
channel proportional, designed some originals, heard of "contests" and
decided to attend.

I desperately needed an escape from a very taxing personal situation in
which my most beautiful 2nd wife, Patricia, was becoming progressively
disabled. I also had some curiosity about what the other guys were flying. I
came with original designs such as the 150" span Miskeet (See the Misc. Pics
file) at http://genie.rchomepage.com/.

My escape at home was building original sailplanes. When it was possible, I
escaped to contests. I liked hanging out with the flyguys and watching those
beautiful ships fly. I won my share and a win would give momentary ego
gratification, but I never considered it a big deal. It wasn't *essential*
to anything important. Pat's illness put the proper perspective on what was
important.

After Pat went into a nursing home in Jan. 1975, I was all torn up, but
could then easily escape to contests. After she made me a widower, still
escaping to contests, my NWSS Season's Ranking got better. In 1990 at age 69
I went for the Season Championship. I got it in both 2 Meter and Open Class.
We had some 150 guys competing on the circuit then, when a $200 sailplane
was a rarity. Now we have about 50 and a $200 sailplane is a rarity for
totally different reasons.

I did not like myself that year. Usually enjoying the guys and flying, I
got picky about rule bending, guys sandbagging and anything that I thought
put me at a competitive disadvantage. It wasn't the usual laid back fun. I
concluded being the "champ" was not worth the militance and decided *never
again*.

I don't know what motivates otherwise mature, grown men to strive to be
competitive in this game. There is no logic to it. You'll spend far more
money going to contests than you'll ever get back.The rest of the world
cares not about your ranking. Your family likely cares not and may resent
your participation. It will not get you "15 minutes of fame" on the world's
stage. If you're a smart-ass, egotistical, obnoxious competitor it won't get
you respect or make friends for you. In the 'eternal scheme of things', how
you did in sailplane contests is without meaning.

Having deplored winning sailplane contests, let me point out what, IMHO, are
greater satisfactions in this wonderful activity.

Learning how to launch your ships higher and higher. Learning how to more
consistently locate and core thermals, Improving your landings. Learning to
trim your ship for optimum performance. Doing all this with hand-eye
coordination, purist fashion because of the challenge involved. Making
friends in the hobby. Keeping friends made in the hobby. Making new ones.
Having fun hanging out with the guys and gals. Sharing ideas. Being helpful.
Maintaining respect of the others. Enjoying the beauty and fascination of
flight and the ever-changing panorama of sky and clouds, breathing the fresh
air.

Lastly. . .contributing back to the hobby. That means by research and
experiment learning things to pass on to others. The ARF is killing this.
Nothing new is learned. I used to save so many posts in my "Worthy R/C
Posts" e-mail folder, but now so few. Well, of late, at least we are getting
some good stuff about casting lead.

Please tell us. . .other than ego satisfaction, just why do you want to win
sailplane contests? What is it that's so *essential* about this form of
competition???

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Re: [RCSE] Tow Freqs...

2006-01-23 Thread Ben Diss

Jack-  I wasn't aware that were regular freqs for tugs at major 
events.  I towed at JR last year and had no idea.  What are those freqs?


-Ben

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Fellas,
I have to agree with Jhonny and the Dog,
We have been using fixed Freqs at Major Tow events for years.
The Same ones. everyone expects what freqs that will be used.
 
I won a donated radio from the Great people at JR, and put it in Bacus 
and My Tug. The radio is on 57, which is fine for SOAR events... Not 
true for the Nats.
 
I hope to help Johnny this year...a little.And, needed to get with 
the program
 
Thanks for the Bandwidth...

CJ
 
--

Jack Strother
Granger, IN

LSF 2948
LSF Level V #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold

 


-- Original message --
From: "Johnny Berlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Lee, We have used this system for as long as I have been towing. It
works for us.
 
If we stay with this then everone will know what the tug freqs are

and there will be no problems. And ( in my opion) we dont need more
than 2 freqs for the tugs.
 
Johnny and Butch
 
 


- Original Message -
From: Lee Estingoy 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ;
soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Guys,
 
I've made a suggestion that we consider putting tugs on freq's

that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  Then
we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier
to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is
conflicted by the glider guy.
 
Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep the tugs on a

channel divisible by 10!
 
If you don't like that idea, please come up with another that

establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will be
easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens
to be on...
 
Lee Estingoy

Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.
 


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Johnny,
I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is
it 58 and 59???
Can you help
CJ
--
Jack Strother
Granger, IN

LSF 2948
LSF Level V #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold


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[RCSE] Casting lead at assisted soaring




I would but its already a pretty heavy topicbut not as interesting as 
the weights and measures of new Supra parts.
 
I for one want to know why the heck one tail boom is soo much heavier than 
the other
 
What if two come in with different weight tailbooms? Different than those 
already measured AND different from each other
 
Is there a rule to defend that?
 
I'm without cookies, with sick dogs, anticipating weights of tailbooms to 
be wayward.
 
Those who have used Pics for contest are cast forever, those who haven't 
likely don't have cowboy cookies either.  
At least I have Catahoulas. :)
 
Back to that friends compulsion... :-(
Worse still, I don't own a scale so I may never know but always suspect 
that those tailbooms are weighing differently. :-(
Gordy

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Jim Larkin

I got a soldier casting set for Christmas---maybe when I was 12 or sonow 
77maybe that is what is wrong with me today ??  I enjoyed the hell out 
of it toomade dozens.Jim
- Original Message - 
From: "David Nasatir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "JIM EALY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] casting lead

JIM EALY wrote:...lead is really bad for little kids

I don't doubt it for a moment.  I am sure that if had not spent so much 
time casting lead soldiers as a little kid I would be much better off 
today.  For sure.
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[RCSE] Johnny and Butch: now aerotow frequencies

2006-01-23 Thread Barry Andersen

Easy, here's what's up.  Check on the AMA, LSF pdf that outlines the Nationals and the frequency use for that day.  Since F3B is flown at the same time, frequencies were divided between F3B, Scale Aero-tow and winch launched XC. Frequencies had to be allocated to get all these events running at the same time. My memory of last year's JR Aerotow and the smaller Woodcrafters aerotow indicates that two tugs working at the same time did just fine; particularly with Johnny's tows!  Perhaps you've run more than two tugs at the KC aero tow, I've not been there. I'll check to see if it's possible to have more than one entrant on the two tug frequencies, I believe it is.I hope you're able to make the NATS and bring that beautiful Zefir4, one of the finest scratch-built scale projects I've seen (via the KC website; www.kcse.us)In any event, frequency allocations are in place for this year. They weren't randomly cooked up by "guys in the Ohio Valley", but are the result of considered decision making by the LSF contest board.  If you have suggestions for improvement in the future, let LSF board members know for the '07 NATS.I hope this helps to ease your concerns.Barry AndersenRegistrar 06 NATS

Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread John Hayes

I have a Picolario and have used it on occasion during the last two flying 
seasons. Nice tool. I found out early on that I was able to read the gliders 
messages quicker and easier than listening to the tones from the vario. 
Using this in a contest wouldn't be very helpful to me, the glider told me 
more info, quiet concentration is way better. That being said, the voltage 
monitoring has saved my ship from sure disaster during an extended flight, 
and it is cool to have a real measure of height. As far as making me a 
better pilot, nah, I'll watch my ship...

John Hayes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Jo Grini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc


> I see that this causes a lot of mind twisting out there. That is mostly 
> good
> ;-)
>
> Maybe I should say that I did enjoy competing against pilots with varios 
> in
> the last Nats. The ones I could see did not beat me (not easy to spot a
> vario among 10 others on the launch line...). Here in Europe we dont use
> varios even though we can at some contests. So the only time I have 
> competed
> against any was at the Nats.
> Bottom line is that I think it is a neat gadget like other tools but
> personally I will not use it. But I respect a pilot on a learning curve to
> use it. I just hope he leaves it home when he enters top 10 or something.
>
> Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
> NEW: www.jojoen.no> -Original Message-
> > From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM
> > To: Soaring@airage.com
> > Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
> >
> >
> > I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last 
> > WC
> > in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And
> > many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by 
> > a
> > Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that 
> > again.
> > I
> > like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
> > No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the
> > plane
> > but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different
> > Rx
> > batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in
> > the
> > zoom. "warning, warning..."
> >
> > Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
> > NEW: www.jojoen.no
>
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> 
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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Jo Grini

I see that this causes a lot of mind twisting out there. That is mostly good 
;-)


Maybe I should say that I did enjoy competing against pilots with varios in 
the last Nats. The ones I could see did not beat me (not easy to spot a 
vario among 10 others on the launch line...). Here in Europe we dont use 
varios even though we can at some contests. So the only time I have competed 
against any was at the Nats.
Bottom line is that I think it is a neat gadget like other tools but 
personally I will not use it. But I respect a pilot on a learning curve to 
use it. I just hope he leaves it home when he enters top 10 or something.


Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no> -Original Message-

From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc


I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC
in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And
many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a
Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. 
I

like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the 
plane
but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different 
Rx
batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in 
the

zoom. "warning, warning..."

Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no 


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[RCSE] assisted soaring,etc, tonite's observations along that topic




So I went out to get some Chinese take out, I managed to get there without 
my Picolario and back, but not in time.
 
My two Catahoula's had managed to seek out a rubber maid container with 
about 40 Cowboy cookies just made last nite and one of the best batches the 
little lady had ever baked. (photos available..of the dogs not the 
cookies).
 
Between the two of them they ate every single cookie (Cowboy 
cookies were chocolate chip with oatmeal)...
 
By the time I got home all that was left was crumbs on the floor.
 
Now I can't tell you if they would have felt less satisfied 
had they used a Picolario to find that container versus just using their nose's 
to read the air so I guess this isn't very definitive as to that topic, cuz they 
looked pretty satisfied periodkind of like JB after a win with 
onePicolario that is, not Catahoula or Cowboy cookie.
 
However I can tell you that I would have very much preferred not to have 
experienced the experiment at all.
The discussion continues...
and I am down to the shop building a club mate's Compulsion.
Gordy

Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

RE: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

2006-01-23 Thread S Meyer


That sure is a long Aero Tow!  309 days!  :-)

At 09:03 AM 1/23/2006, John Diniz wrote:

Lee,

For the past Nat's and all the years of the JR AeroTow we've put the 
Tugs on 59 and 60. We've had no problems getting planes up in the 
air with 2 tugs operating constantly. For other events I guess it's 
up to the organizer.


Hope everyone makes it out to Monticello, Il for this years JR 
AeroTow, May 31st through April 4th.


Thanks,
John

-Original Message-
From: Lee Estingoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@Airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Guys,

I've made a suggestion that we consider putting tugs on freq's that 
end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  Then we keep 
the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier to deal with 
the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is conflicted by the glider guy.


Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep the tugs on a 
channel divisible by 10!


If you don't like that idea, please come up with another that 
establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will be easy 
to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens to be on...


Lee Estingoy
Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.


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[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #7012

2006-01-23 Thread Jo Grini

I missed this post (dont read it all...). An observant reader got me to it 
(David Stack)


I dont know of any webpages but I can offer you some logging of my launches.
Earlier I used the Lolo but I sold that a while ago and are now using the 
Z-log.
Let me know if that is interresting and I will look into my archive and find 
some useful stuff.
I dont have much data on the Zlog that I would call interresting but a quick 
check on one of the latest flights on the winch with 170-180m, to the 
turnaround gives: Climb speed 20m/s, after zoom 25-30m/s. Conditions were 
calm and -3celcius (26F) and I used my Pike Giant. Launch altitude were 
200m+/-
But beware that all launches are very different. It is all in the 
conditions, type of model and lines used. We also zoom of at very different 
altitudes deppending on when we get the right tension, if we want to go of 
early, etc
In F3J we sometimes are able to pull the runners backwards if the wind is 
strong and the setup of the model is good. Some runners are offcourse 
stronger in this phase of the launch than others (John Diniz, David Hobby, 
me... ;-). In the last two WC's I have liked to use Juniors or fast small 
runners because they are eager and faster in the first phase of the running. 
But a heavy well trimmed quarter back or something would be nice ;-)
I also know they meassured some time ago 120kg upwards on a F3B turnaround. 
And before the new stake rule I think the Germans meassured 50kg on the 
stake in the ground. But this is from memory. You might find some in the 
Ciam archive of proposals of new rules some years ago.


A fact is that we use lines that are suited for the conditions we fly and 
what plane is launching.
A 1,15mm line will probably break at 70-80? kg load and a 1,35mm (that we 
use in windy conditions) will break at 120kg?
When the line gets old or slightly damaged it breaks at an earlier point 
offcourse
EMC VEGA have some info http://www.emc-vega.de/pdf/hochstart.pdf 
http://www.emc-vega.de
They state the braking point in Newton and have a bit lower numbers than me 
(I am not good in German either) but they are probably not way off.


Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no

--

Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:06:08 -0800
From: "Jeff Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Physics of F3J launch?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Are there any web sites that describe the physics of an F3J type launch?

Specifically, the climb speeds, zoom speeds, tension in the line,
g forces, ...

I'd also be curious as to how much tension there is in the line from
a F3B winch.

-- 


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RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Sheldon-YNT uDesign

I'd go regardless. I like using my Pic because there aren't any local pilots
that can help me understand what I'm doing. I think the Pic helps me "get a
reference" on what the plane is actually doing with what I'm seeing
visually. I hope though that it will be a tool that can be dispensed with as
I gain more of that all-important experience. Again, this is in the absence
of other pilots to help. But, as Jim said, it takes flying to really gain
the experience. That Pic doesn't help me a bit when it comes to putting it
down where and when I want for the landing, and that's only going to come
with practice, something I'm sorely in need of!


-Sheldon-

-Original Message-
From: John Diniz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:38 PM
To: Jo Grini; Soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to
an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for
that event?

John

-Original Message-
From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc


I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-) Though last WC
in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the field... And
many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B controlled by a
Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come to that again. I
like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane
but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx
batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the
zoom. "warning, warning..."

Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no

> - Original Message -
> From: "Daryl Perkins"
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
>
>
>> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry is neat stuff, 
>> and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest days. But it has no place in a 
>> contest.
>>
>> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn about your 
>> skill level. Use them to learn about lift.
>> But leave them at home on contest days.
>>
>> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing workable lift... 
>> what exactly are we contesting?
>>
>> I have my own views, and I'm not always right...
>> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that the use of these 
>> things in a contest setting offends me on every level.
>>
>> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right.
>>
>> 2 cents,
>>
>> D
>>
>> 

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Re: [RCSE] JR Aerotow date

2006-01-23 Thread Marc Gellart

Jim, 
You are correct, June 1-4, not sure what happened to John's note, but that 
is what I have on the calendar.

Marc
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Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

2006-01-23 Thread Lee Estingoy




Dammit, you don't even tell us what the "system" is 
that you guys are using for years.
 
It's the same old in-bred good o'd system that 
keeps things static and ever so slightly dysfunctional in this end of the 
hobby.
 
Think big picture or outside the box or long 
term.  Just because you guys in the Ohio Valley have a system, doesn't mean 
that the guys who may be, heaven forbid, from outside that area even know what 
it is.  If there is a national type of rule, like I proposed or something 
similar, then everybody from anywhere in the US will be able to be compliant 
without having to know the secret handshake.
 
Yes, you do need more than 2 tugs at major 
events.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Lee

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Johnny Berlin 
  
  To: Lee Estingoy ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@Airage.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:20 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and 
Butch
  
  Lee, We have used this system for as long as I 
  have been towing. It works for us.
   
  If we stay with this then everone will know what 
  the tug freqs are and there will be no problems. And ( in my opion) we dont 
  need more than 2 freqs for the tugs.
   
  Johnny and Butch
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lee 
Estingoy 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 
AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and 
Butch

Guys,
 
I've made a suggestion that we consider putting 
tugs on freq's that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you 
engineers.  Then we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it 
a bit easier to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug 
is conflicted by the glider guy.
 
Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and 
keep the tugs on a channel divisible by 10!
 
If you don't like that idea, please come up 
with another that establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that 
will be easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens to be 
on...
 
Lee Estingoy
Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: soaring@Airage.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 
  AM
  Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and 
Butch
  
  Johnny,
  I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it 58 and 
  59???
  Can you help
  CJ
  --Jack Strother Granger, IN 
  LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS 
  Gold

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread George L Meyers

I always thought it was due to children chewing on toys, their crib and 
items around the house that were painted with lead based paint.  They 
exhumed some lost explorers and determined that their death was caused from 
lead poisoning. They were eating food from cans that were sealed with lead.


No, we are not hallucinating -- "no lead gasoline" is a real reaction to 
the
number of children who are mentally retarded because of lead fumes. 


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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Jon Stone

> Today, I
> don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the
> "spirit" of the rules as they were originally
> intended.  

The AMA soaring rules specifically state such devices are allowed.

"10.1.f. Thermal Sensor Rule. Thermal sensing devices shall be permitted 
provided that any such device and the contestant comply with all FCC 
regulations and that any such device does not interfere with the conduct of the 
contest. No special arrangement or rearrangement of flight order, established 
as noted above, shall be made in consideration of such devices."

http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf


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RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc


YEA,
What He Said Darn it !!!
Besides, its the only time that Richard will talk to me, 
when he is bi**hing about my Vario...
LOL
 
Get em JB
 
CJ
 
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold 
 
-- Original message -- From: "James V. Bacus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If you all put your blinders on, maybe all this new technology will go away... > > NOT > > The world progresses, things change, adapt or be left behind. > > The strong feelings of some of my pilot friends and others in this hobby > wanting things to stay the way they were is really wearing on me. I've > been basically accused of buying my wins and cheating with new technology > season after season for years now, even as I play totally within the > rules. I fly the "cheater" planes, I fly the "cheater" varios, so > obviously that must mean I have no skill or talent so I have to buy it. I > am so sick of hearing peoples excuses for not trying hard enough to compete > at TD contests, at my reputations expense. If you want to play at the top > level of TD comps you are going to have spend some money, you are going to > have to understand the new technologies whether it be the latest model > design, the latest computer radio and digital servos, or the latest > telemetry technology and see if it works for you. You are going to have to > practice, you are going to have to spend the time and money to travel to > out of state contests, and you are going to have to concentrate on what you > are doing and work at it, HARD, to be successful. It doesn't come easy > from what I have experienced, I have been humbled many times by far more > skilled and talented pilots than myself. > > America is a technology progressive society, and it competes this way all > around me, particularly in the biotech business I am in. And I am very > successful in that arena because of the way I aggressively look at, absorb > and create new technology. I am a progressive thinker, I always want to > learn about the next new thing, I always want the advantage if it is > obtainable within the rules, I always shoot for the win, and I do it > straight up like an honest man. > > I think for our hobby to grow we have to progress, when it stagnates like > it has over the years, it's no wonder we have no new blood, and guys that > did participate for years drift away to other past times so they can > continue to learn and grow. > > You all know what to do if you want to keep things the same, make some more > rules, lock it down and stifle all this new technology. I can guarantee > the same guys will always keep winning if there are never any new angles to > play out. > > > Jim > Downers Grove, IL > Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR > AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread David Nasatir


JIM EALY wrote:...lead is really bad for little kids

I don't doubt it for a moment.  I am sure that if had not spent so much 
time casting lead soldiers as a little kid I would be much better off 
today.  For sure.

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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread John Erickson

Good points all around.  I think people take different things away from a
contest.  Some just go for the camaraderie, some go to win, some go to see
how they are doing against their peers.  I personally don't think that using
a Picalario puts you ahead of the rest of the pack.  You still have to make
the right flight decision, you still have to work the lift, and most
importantly, you still have to land.

However, if you had a GPS/heading lock unit that put the plane on the 100
every time...it would bother me because the real reason I go to contests is
to watch grown men cry when they flip their plane on a downwind landing :-)

JE
--
Erickson Architects
John R. Erickson, AIA



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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc





In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:08:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Today, Idon't feel that the use of telemetry is in the"spirit" of the rules as they were originallyintended.  
Whew, I'm so glad you guys weren't around in the 60s when I was flying 400 sq. in. pylon & pattern with Orions & Taurus's.  We used reeds, by pulsing spring loaded switches with our thumbs, Bonner servos were about 22 inoz of torque, and about 4" long.  Elevator trim was the only trim, a 4th servo slid the elevator servo arm forward and back for trim.  My point is, when Pro Line & Kraft came out with proportional radios, everyone said it was unfair to just move a stick, and the surface moved an equivalent amount, and trim was on all channels and no extra servo.  People tried to kill propo for competition, but lucky for us, they didn't. That was a huge jump in technology.  I laid away a Pro Line two stick right away ($650.00), and I made $500.00 per month with a wife & two kids to feed. If the screamers would have prevailed, we would not have any of this.  I'm 68 now, and I mostly fly relaxed woody events , because of arguments like this. I have two JR 9303s 40 or 50 planes, and two Pics, plus lots of OFBs.  So there.  
 
Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA

[RCSE] Tow Freqs...


Fellas,
I have to agree with Jhonny and the Dog,
We have been using fixed Freqs at Major Tow events for years.
The Same ones. everyone expects what freqs that will be used.
 
I won a donated radio from the Great people at JR, and put it in Bacus and My Tug. The radio is on 57, which is fine for SOAR events... Not true for the Nats.
 
I hope to help Johnny this year...a little.And, needed to get with the program
 
Thanks for the Bandwidth...
CJ
 
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold 
 
-- Original message -- From: "Johnny Berlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Lee, We have used this system for as long as I have been towing. It works for us.
 
If we stay with this then everone will know what the tug freqs are and there will be no problems. And ( in my opion) we dont need more than 2 freqs for the tugs.
 
Johnny and Butch
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: Lee Estingoy 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Guys,
 
I've made a suggestion that we consider putting tugs on freq's that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  Then we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is conflicted by the glider guy.
 
Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep the tugs on a channel divisible by 10!
 
If you don't like that idea, please come up with another that establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will be easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens to be on...
 
Lee Estingoy
Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.
 

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Johnny,
I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it 58 and 59???
Can you help
CJ
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold

[RCSE] JR Aerotow date

2006-01-23 Thread Jim Deck

 I thought that the JR aerotow event in Illinois was in June sometime.  Is
the date different this year?
Jim Deck

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Re: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread S Meyer


Yep.  There is no rule against practicing.  LOL


At 02:04 PM 1/23/2006, Pat McCleave wrote:

Guys,

What I think is the most unfair advantage are the guys that get to 
practice more than me.  Them suckers beat me almost everytime (hey I 
get lucky once in awhile).  I personally have never spent the money 
on any of the various Sensors since that takes away from spending 
money on other things that make soaring a lot more fun like 
beer.  Oh wait, my brother always brings the beer so I guess I must 
spend the extra money Molded Planes and Digital Servos so at least I 
will look like a really good pilot at least up until after the first 
round scores are posted.   Just my 2 cents worth.


See Ya,

Pat McCleave
Wichita, KS


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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Daryl Perkins

Please keep in mind that I am not trying to solve
anything here. Just some random thoughts about how
contests seem to be evolving. 

I don't think anybody is saying that a pic or
telemetry is an "unfair" advantage. Anything allowable
under the rules is certainly fair. What is evident in
this thread is that soaring contests mean different
things to different people. I know that my idea of
what a soaring contest is has evolved over the years.
When I started soaring, much like you today JB, it was
a win at any cost mentality. Back then, I would have
agreed that the use of technology to gain an advantage
within the rules is the way to go... But that being
said, there is no way for a rules maker/contest
designer/whatever you want to call him, to foresee the
evolution of technology in the years to come. Today, I
don't feel that the use of telemetry is in the
"spirit" of the rules as they were originally
intended.  

A contest or competition of any type is designed to
measure something. Auto race - all out speed. Football
is a land aquisition game. You get the idea... but
what exactly are we trying to measure with a RC
soaring competition? I know what I think we are trying
to measure... In my mind, we are trying to measure
true soaring skills. Soaring skills to me are the
ability to recognize and work lift, strong, weak...
anything to make our target time. Exercise good
judgment, constantly analyze and optimize our
situation... What takes years and years to accomplish
is learning to read the model, read the conditions,
decide if we're actually climbing, staying level...
etc... On every contest flight, I am constantly
questioning my own judgment. That's what makes the
soaring contest fun to me... am I really staying up?
Am I really going to make my time? Is the lift a
little better over here? Oops... doesn't look like
it... but maybe The Pic eliminates all of this...
Again, not saying they are unfair, cuz I could use one
too, but they do take the skill out of the whole
thing... These are the things that are the difference
between a "Joe Novice" and a Joe Wurts.

My question is, where will it all end? There is
already autopilots that can be programmed to fly a
model in a predesigned path. GPS's I'm sure are
allowable under the rules. An autopilot and a GPS is
certainly legal as long it is controlled from the
ground. So you could certainly program it to fly in a
constant bank angle and energy, and turn it off, come
home and shoot your landing. I realize I am going
extreme here, but that's what I'm talking about -
where does it end? At what point does the technology
available exceed the spirit or intent of the rules?
And then again... what... are we really trying to
measure? I personally believe that any telemetry back
to the pilot is not within the spirit of a soaring
competition. That's just my sentiment.

Wood vs. molded... I agree there are performance
differences. Would I rather drive a Ferrari or a Yugo?
 I could still win with the Yugo. But the Ferrari is
more fun... I like high performance models. And I
can't afford a Ferrari...

Blaine mentions that we should design a contest that
allows us to use the technology available. I whole
heartily agree. You techy's have a blast. ;-) But
maybe we should try to define what we are trying to
measure at our little TD contests, and write the rules
accordingly. 

that's about 8 1/2 cents worth... and I have to get
some work done... ;-)

Have fun guys - I was actually thinking about
practicing a bit this year. That Soaring Masters thing
sounds like fun. It's even more fun to climb through
you guys with those things stuck in your ears... ;-)

D


__
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Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread JIM EALY

Hello:
Thanks for mentioning that wet sand and hot lead are no fun I could not
believe the use of wet sand - go to foundry and see if they use wet sand when
they pour steel

HOWEVER:
No, we are not hallucinating -- "no lead gasoline" is a real reaction to the
number of children who are mentally retarded because of lead fumes. You DO NOT
have to BOIL lead to have vapors! It is called vapor pressure. Ice has vapor
pressure, not just liquid warter, Hell that's called humidity! So do solid and
liquid lead. Eating lead is not nearly as toxic as the vapor, if you eat too
much you'll barf. You have to remove lead paint from old home to sell them. 

I am not anymore happy with the Safety Police and OSHA then the next chemist -
they ruined most of my fun experiments and research - but lead is really bad
for little kids.

You can check all of my gentle claims on any lead website, gov regulations, etc.
regards,
Jim





On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:55:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> My God, are you guys hallucinating? Calm down  and take a deep breath! Sure 
> lead is toxic if you get it into the body but  dangerous fumes are only 
> produced if you boil it. We are just melting amounts  under 10 pounds here! I
read 
> about encapsulating it in epoxy and that is fine  but you guys are making it 
> sound like you can get poisoned by "bad air" or  something. The "bad air"
comes 
> from the epoxy! This isn't a religion and it's  not something evil, it's just 
> another useful metal for people with a smidgen of  common sense to use. After 
> all, we are not eating it or sticking our nose in the  pot, are we? It is 
> probably less dangerous than the results of your last burrito  in a closed
vehicle 
> and certainly less dangerous than the mercury amalgam  fillings in your teeth.

> So don't eat it, lick it and please wash your hands  before you smoke that 
> cigar and you and your neighbors will be perfectly safe.  Millions of lead 
> bullet casters have been doing this for ages in perfect safety.  It's just
another 
> useful tool we use if the proper precautions are taken.  Incidentally, there 
> is one major risk to be watchful of. No moisture should EVER  come in contact 
> with the molten lead. One small drop of sweat from your brow  falls into the 
> pot it will demonstrate just how powerful a steam explosion can  be as it
plates 
> you and your surrounding area with lead foil. We were wearing  safety 
> glasses, weren't we? Contrary to some reports I've read, unless you are 
melting an 
> iron bathtub full for the keel of your sailboat, it is seldom more  that a
real 
> eye-opener and very messy. It's happens way too fast to blink and  the foil 
> sticks to everything like spray paint. So, know your limitations and  use some

> common sense and you should be fine. Nobody is forced to play with it  if they

> don't want to but a little intelligent thought is a useful commodity,  
> hearsay and old wives tales are not.   Dennis in NH and yes I have  been
tested for 
> lead in my system and no there is none. 
> 
> Hello: As you  will hear from others, lead fumes are really bad news. If you 
> must, do it only  outdoors and that is not fair to your neighbors, etc.  
> 
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> 
> 

Jim Ealy
Education by Demonstration
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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Walt W5SWA

Well let me throw in my .02 cents here.  I have a Pic and I use it sometimes 
and sometimes I don't.  I feel that it only helps in a very limited number 
of situations.  Mostly when lift is marginal.  Early morning first round not 
much lift I use it.  Overcast sky with minimal surface heating I turn it on. 
It may not find any lift but it will help identify areas of less sink or no 
sink.   Marginal conditions are the only time it gives me or any experienced 
flyer an edge.  If there is good or very light lift I can find it on my own. 
 My eyes are not so bad that I can't tell when I am in lift.  I know all of 
the indicators of lift and use them to my advantage whenever I can.


I was once confronted about using the pic at a contest.  I told them that 
there was nothing in the rules that prohibited the use of a Pic.  I also 
said that if they were concerned that it gave me an advantage over them to 
launch when I launch and follow me around while I look for lift.  I didn't 
have any takers.  By the way I finished 10th because of landing points.


Anyway the Pic is off more than its on. Except for the above situations.

Flame suit on.

Walt


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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc






In a message dated 1/23/2006 2:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I always 
  want the advantage if it is obtainable within the rules, I always shoot 
  for the win, and I do it straight up like an honest 
man.
Jim's is the "American Way".  If it meets the rules, use it 
all.  If it doesn't, then don't ! I like to fly in Woody events.  
There are rules for the sailplane construction, and for the TD tasks.  I 
fly within the rules, and feel I can use anything I come up with for an 
advantage if it meets with the rules. I design & build my own plane 
combinations to be within the "rules" . Ray Hayes & others allow the pic, so 
if I CHOOSE to use it, I can. Jim B. fly's the other end of the TD spectrum, in 
that he CHOOSES to fly big molded planes, but he is still flying & building 
within the rules set up for the contests he goes to. Less is Best, when it comes 
to rules. I can afford Icons & Supras too, but I CHOOSE to build & fly 
the woody's, not against the molded planes, but within their own set of 
specifications, against other woody's, and occasionally against the molded TD 
planes, the woody's just don't win in a mid-air with a moldie   Bill G.. 
 
Bill 
GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, 
PA

Re: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Pat McCleave

Guys,

What I think is the most unfair advantage are the guys that get to practice 
more than me.  Them suckers beat me almost everytime (hey I get lucky once in 
awhile).  I personally have never spent the money on any of the various Sensors 
since that takes away from spending money on other things that make soaring a 
lot more fun like beer.  Oh wait, my brother always brings the beer so I guess 
I must spend the extra money Molded Planes and Digital Servos so at least I 
will look like a really good pilot at least up until after the first round 
scores are posted.   Just my 2 cents worth.

See Ya,

Pat McCleave
Wichita, KS


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Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Denoferth

My God, are you guys hallucinating? Calm down  and take a deep breath! Sure 
lead is toxic if you get it into the body but  dangerous fumes are only 
produced if you boil it. We are just melting amounts  under 10 pounds here! I 
read 
about encapsulating it in epoxy and that is fine  but you guys are making it 
sound like you can get poisoned by "bad air" or  something. The "bad air" comes 
from the epoxy! This isn't a religion and it's  not something evil, it's just 
another useful metal for people with a smidgen of  common sense to use. After 
all, we are not eating it or sticking our nose in the  pot, are we? It is 
probably less dangerous than the results of your last burrito  in a closed 
vehicle 
and certainly less dangerous than the mercury amalgam  fillings in your teeth. 
So don't eat it, lick it and please wash your hands  before you smoke that 
cigar and you and your neighbors will be perfectly safe.  Millions of lead 
bullet casters have been doing this for ages in perfect safety.  It's just 
another 
useful tool we use if the proper precautions are taken.  Incidentally, there 
is one major risk to be watchful of. No moisture should EVER  come in contact 
with the molten lead. One small drop of sweat from your brow  falls into the 
pot it will demonstrate just how powerful a steam explosion can  be as it 
plates 
you and your surrounding area with lead foil. We were wearing  safety 
glasses, weren't we? Contrary to some reports I've read, unless you are  
melting an 
iron bathtub full for the keel of your sailboat, it is seldom more  that a real 
eye-opener and very messy. It's happens way too fast to blink and  the foil 
sticks to everything like spray paint. So, know your limitations and  use some 
common sense and you should be fine. Nobody is forced to play with it  if they 
don't want to but a little intelligent thought is a useful commodity,  
hearsay and old wives tales are not.   Dennis in NH and yes I have  been tested 
for 
lead in my system and no there is none. 

Hello: As you  will hear from others, lead fumes are really bad news. If you 
must, do it only  outdoors and that is not fair to your neighbors, etc.  

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RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread James V. Bacus

If you all put your blinders on, maybe all this new technology will go away...

NOT

The world progresses, things change, adapt or be left behind.

The strong feelings of some of my pilot friends and others in this hobby
wanting things to stay the way they were is really wearing on me. I've
been basically accused of buying my wins and cheating with new technology
season after season for years now, even as I play totally within the
rules. I fly the "cheater" planes, I fly the "cheater" varios, so
obviously that must mean I have no skill or talent so I have to buy it. I
am so sick of hearing peoples excuses for not trying hard enough to compete
at TD contests, at my reputations expense. If you want to play at the top
level of TD comps you are going to have spend some money, you are going to
have to understand the new technologies whether it be the latest model
design, the latest computer radio and digital servos, or the latest
telemetry technology and see if it works for you. You are going to have to
practice, you are going to have to spend the time and money to travel to
out of state contests, and you are going to have to concentrate on what you
are doing and work at it, HARD, to be successful. It doesn't come easy
from what I have experienced, I have been humbled many times by far more
skilled and talented pilots than myself.

America is a technology progressive society, and it competes this way all
around me, particularly in the biotech business I am in. And I am very
successful in that arena because of the way I aggressively look at, absorb
and create new technology. I am a progressive thinker, I always want to
learn about the next new thing, I always want the advantage if it is
obtainable within the rules, I always shoot for the win, and I do it
straight up like an honest man.

I think for our hobby to grow we have to progress, when it stagnates like
it has over the years, it's no wonder we have no new blood, and guys that
did participate for years drift away to other past times so they can
continue to learn and grow.

You all know what to do if you want to keep things the same, make some more
rules, lock it down and stifle all this new technology. I can guarantee
the same guys will always keep winning if there are never any new angles to
play out.

Jim
Downers Grove, IL
Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR
AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net

Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Michael Neverdosky

Thermal sensors are NOT UNFAIR as long as they are allowed in the RULES!

A FAR bigger advantage is the use of a highly engineered MOLDED aircraft.
This is the area where people BUY advantage the easiest and most, in the plane.

The best telemetry units for RC use cost far less than one high end
sailplane kit.

Personally I like the 'builder of the model' rule but that has been
gone for many years and really has no chance of coming back.
Right now anyone can BUY the advantage of a plane that has design,
materials and cunstruction processes that are FAR beyond their
abilities and that give real performance advantages on the field. All
it takes is money, lots of money.
I am not saying that this is bad for the sport overall just that it is reality.
It is also legal under the rules so is technically FAIR.

Really, to fly a TD contest takes a team. Someone had to build the
plane, someone has to fly the plane, someone times the flight, someone
provides launching equipment, etc. etc., it all is part of the total
package. A thermal sniffer or similar device is such a tiny part of
the whole that it is unlikely to make any difference at all and it is
certainly NOT UNFAIR.

It is really simple.
If the rules allow it then it is FAIR.
If the rules don't allow it then it is UNFAIR and is CHEATING.

If you don't like then, don't use them.
Don't want OTHER people to use them, then lobby to change the rules.

Please don't stand there with your $2000+++ airplane and tell me that
my $200 thermal sensor is an unfair advantage.
Really!

michael

On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I haven't flown a contest in at least 6 years, but I have to agree with
> Daryl,
> this is something that shouldn't be used in a contest environment.
> I use to race one design sailboats and there were very tight rules about
> equipment.
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RE: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Mark Howard

To melt lead I use an old coffee can with the top bent into a spout and
a coleman stove. I do it outside where the better half will not complain
(much).. I use a pair of vice grips (and gloves) to handle the can. 

Mark 

-Original Message-
From: Robert Samuels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:05 AM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: [RCSE] casting lead

I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of 
butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt
the 
lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much
(if 
any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does
anyone 
know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold

(cheaply)?

Robert Samuels ... St. Louis

_
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

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[RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

2006-01-23 Thread John


Sure,

If they are not having fun at the clubs, don't own a winch, and are not able
or willing to use a strong HI-Start; then Electric is a good alternative.

John



-Original Message-
From: Tom Broeski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:20 PM
To: John; Blaine Beron-Rawdon
Cc: RCSE
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

But are the guys just moving to electric stuff?

T

- Original Message -
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Blaine Beron-Rawdon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "RCSE" 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems


> "People who don't like those rules  don't fly that contest"
>
> Blaine, Have you given any thought to the idea in your quote is just what
> HAS happened. I am all the time hearing where the "sport" is loosing
> following. Maybe the rules that allow all the high tech gadgets have
> driven
> the costs so high that the pilots are already gone. Maybe they just go fly
> by themselves or with other likeminded flyers and forgo the contest (like
> I
> do). If you look at the LOFT site and see all the pilots and then look at
> the # of contests they flew last year you may see a pattern. I attended
> most
> of the contest (drove the cart) but only flew in four (4). You can't
> imagine
> my surprise when I won the LOFT expert trophy for the year with only 4
> (not
> very high scoring) contests.
>
>
> John
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Blaine Beron-Rawdon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:20 AM
> To: Soaring
> Subject: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems
>
> Gents,
>
> I have been following the thread on sensors (varios and so on) in
> contest sailplanes.  I have some comments and thoughts:
>
> First off:  Rules for a contest evolve over time.  A group of flyers
> becomes accustomed to those rules.  People who don't like those rules
> don't fly that contest.  So when you ask your fellow competitors "do
> you like the rules" they answer "yes".  When you ask "should we
> permit something new?" they answer "no".  For me, this explains why
> Darryl Perkins is resistant to rules changes - he is doing just fine
> with the present rules!
>
> Second:  The question of whether to allow varios in thermal duration
> contests is almost trivial.  A better question is:  What other kinds
> of contests could we run if we had onboard sensors and downlinks?
> These contests might not appeal to the thermal duration purist, but
> may attract all sorts of folks who have other, related interests.
> Some possible sailplane contest concepts follow:
>
> 1.  On-field cross-country:  Using GPS-enabled sailplanes, race cross-
> country around waypoints specified by the CD.  Minimum time wins.
> These points can all be within safe range of the field, visibility
> and landing-out wise.
>
> 2.  On-field cross-country for electric sailplanes:  Using GPS-
> enabled sailplanes with milliamp-hour sensors, fly a cross country
> course as above.  The winner uses the minimum electrical energy
> (launch and on-course).
>
> 2a.  Duration for electric sailplanes:  Fly with milliamp-hour
> sensors.  Stay up for a given period of time.  The winner uses the
> least energy.
>
> 3.  Altitude gain:  Using altimeter-enabled sailplanes, attempt to
> gain as much altitude above launch height as possible within a given
> time period.  Greatest altitude gain wins.
>
> 4.  Thermal duration with fixed starting altitude:  Using altimeter-
> enabled (with downlink), the CD can specify a maximum starting
> altitude followed by a specified duration time.  This can be set up
> so that deep zooms under the "limbo" are inhibited.  This could take
> the launch out of the equation and could be used for electric
> sailplanes.
>
> All of these contests are feasible right now with available
> electronics that cost a small part of the average molded sailplane
> with good radio.  For example, Eagle Tree Systems components really
> work and are so compact that they can be accommodated with little
> compromise to the airplane.
>
> Food for thought...
>
> Blaine Beron-Rawdon
> Envision Design
> San Pedro, California
>
>
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[RCSE] "I'm not coming ...if ? "




Its a good question John.
 
Man on Man is supposed to be an attempt at equalizing launch and air.
 
Pic's and the like  add a factor in to the equation.
 
Whether some pilots would not come because some used a vario , well I think 
that depends if the event were 'serious'.  You know like the Nats where the 
official record is kept or say if an event had cash prizes for finishers.
 
Then in order to compete 'man on man' every contestant would be oblige to 
use electronic aides, versus flying with one eye closed.
 
It could be extrapolated that all pilots would then be sort of forced to 
start using the device during all contests in order to improve their ability to 
utilize the information provided.
 
That would then likely force modelers to spend an extra $400 or whatever in 
order to 'feel' competitive.
 
Those who have them and won with their use could be said to have won with 
an asterisk denoting 'used electronic aide'.
 
I am totally against making rules, and against banning anything that keeps 
our hobby fun.
The rest of the world of soaring can't use them, or skegs.  
I feel its a freedom thing, as in only in America..and I like 
that.  We get to chose whether we want to wear a helmet, skeg or 
Picolario.  However when we decide to play in the world playground, we 
start practicing without skegs and Pics. :-)
 
Back to the context of say a Masters of Soaring event.someone who 
is experienced using a Vario and won against a Euro 
contestant (who is not practiced) would likely be viewed as having a 
'tainted' win.  "it was legal and all could have used one..."  But 
...
 
Lots to think about :-)
I'm in with DP on this one. We say, use em and beat us, but just makes it 
all that much sweeter for us when we overcome, and that much less sweet for 
those who won with one.
Gordy
Thinking today :)

RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread George Voss

I just received a Zlog and a Picolario.  I'm interested trying both of them
out in not only sailplanes, but electrics also.  I've flown with an Ace
Sniffler before for XC.  If I did use these items on a regular basis, I
would still come to the contest; just not use them for that particular
contest.

gv   

-Original Message-
From: John Diniz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:38 AM
To: Jo Grini; Soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to
an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for
that event?

John

-Original Message-
From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc


I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-)
Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the 
field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B 
controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come 
to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane

but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx 
batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the

zoom. "warning, warning..."

Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Daryl Perkins"
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
>
>
>> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry
>> is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest
>> days. But it has no place in a contest.
>>
>> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn
>> about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift.
>> But leave them at home on contest days.
>>
>> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing
>> workable lift... what exactly are we contesting?
>>
>> I have my own views, and I'm not always right...
>> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that
>> the use of these things in a contest setting offends
>> me on every level.
>>
>> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right.
>>
>> 2 cents,
>>
>> D
>>
>> 

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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread junk1

I haven't flown a contest in at least 6 years, but I have to agree with 
Daryl,
this is something that shouldn't be used in a contest environment.
I use to race one design sailboats and there were very tight rules about
equipment. Everything on the boat had to be on a list of accepted MFG's.
In reality, most of the guys with sensors in their sailplanes aren't 
threatening
the big boys of soaring, but it certainly gives an advantage over the other
intermadiate pilots, and in my opinion that is worse.
If I had sensors in a sailplane, I would not expect to officially enter any 
contest,
I might fly in them, but wouldn't expect my score to count if I had an 
unfair advantage.

My $0.02

Mark Mech
www.aerofoam.com



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Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc





In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:38:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Would you not go to an event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that event?
My point exactly John, I/we do what we feel like, WITHIN the contest rules for that day.If it's not allowed, we happily fly without one. !!  BG
 
Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA

RE: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

So,for you guys that do use Pic's and other devices: Would you not go to an 
event because they were not allowed, or would you just not use it for that 
event?

John

-Original Message-
From: Jo Grini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-)
Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the 
field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B 
controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come 
to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane 
but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx 
batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the 
zoom. "warning, warning..."

Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Daryl Perkins"
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc
>
>
>> You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry
>> is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest
>> days. But it has no place in a contest.
>>
>> Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn
>> about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift.
>> But leave them at home on contest days.
>>
>> If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing
>> workable lift... what exactly are we contesting?
>>
>> I have my own views, and I'm not always right...
>> well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that
>> the use of these things in a contest setting offends
>> me on every level.
>>
>> Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right.
>>
>> 2 cents,
>>
>> D
>>
>> 

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Re: [RCSE] RE: casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Tom Broeski

You can just use pliers and a torch to melt the lead.   Take a block of wood 
and press it in some wet sand for your mold.

T
- Original Message - 
From: "Walter Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Soaring" 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: [RCSE] RE: casting lead

Lead can be melted in a small iron skillet on any stove. The one I use has 
curved lip for pouring. Cheap and efficient. Others may suggest mold 
design.

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Re: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

2006-01-23 Thread Tom Broeski

But are the guys just moving to electric stuff?

T

- Original Message - 
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Blaine Beron-Rawdon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "RCSE" 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

"People who don't like those rules  don't fly that contest"

Blaine, Have you given any thought to the idea in your quote is just what
HAS happened. I am all the time hearing where the "sport" is loosing
following. Maybe the rules that allow all the high tech gadgets have 
driven

the costs so high that the pilots are already gone. Maybe they just go fly
by themselves or with other likeminded flyers and forgo the contest (like 
I

do). If you look at the LOFT site and see all the pilots and then look at
the # of contests they flew last year you may see a pattern. I attended 
most
of the contest (drove the cart) but only flew in four (4). You can't 
imagine
my surprise when I won the LOFT expert trophy for the year with only 4 
(not

very high scoring) contests.

John

-Original Message-
From: Blaine Beron-Rawdon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:20 AM
To: Soaring
Subject: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

Gents,

I have been following the thread on sensors (varios and so on) in
contest sailplanes.  I have some comments and thoughts:

First off:  Rules for a contest evolve over time.  A group of flyers
becomes accustomed to those rules.  People who don't like those rules
don't fly that contest.  So when you ask your fellow competitors "do
you like the rules" they answer "yes".  When you ask "should we
permit something new?" they answer "no".  For me, this explains why
Darryl Perkins is resistant to rules changes - he is doing just fine
with the present rules!

Second:  The question of whether to allow varios in thermal duration
contests is almost trivial.  A better question is:  What other kinds
of contests could we run if we had onboard sensors and downlinks?
These contests might not appeal to the thermal duration purist, but
may attract all sorts of folks who have other, related interests.
Some possible sailplane contest concepts follow:

1.  On-field cross-country:  Using GPS-enabled sailplanes, race cross-
country around waypoints specified by the CD.  Minimum time wins.
These points can all be within safe range of the field, visibility
and landing-out wise.

2.  On-field cross-country for electric sailplanes:  Using GPS-
enabled sailplanes with milliamp-hour sensors, fly a cross country
course as above.  The winner uses the minimum electrical energy
(launch and on-course).

2a.  Duration for electric sailplanes:  Fly with milliamp-hour
sensors.  Stay up for a given period of time.  The winner uses the
least energy.

3.  Altitude gain:  Using altimeter-enabled sailplanes, attempt to
gain as much altitude above launch height as possible within a given
time period.  Greatest altitude gain wins.

4.  Thermal duration with fixed starting altitude:  Using altimeter-
enabled (with downlink), the CD can specify a maximum starting
altitude followed by a specified duration time.  This can be set up
so that deep zooms under the "limbo" are inhibited.  This could take
the launch out of the equation and could be used for electric
sailplanes.

All of these contests are feasible right now with available
electronics that cost a small part of the average molded sailplane
with good radio.  For example, Eagle Tree Systems components really
work and are so compact that they can be accommodated with little
compromise to the airplane.

Food for thought...

Blaine Beron-Rawdon
Envision Design
San Pedro, California

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Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Tom Broeski

I just fill small poly bags will shot.  You can put them almost anywhere and 
they conform to the different shaped spaces well.  Just tape in or stuff in 
some foam to hold in place.  Easy to add or subtact shot.


T


- Original Message - 
From: "JIM EALY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Robert Samuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] casting lead



Hello:
As you will hear from others, lead fumes are really bad news. If you must, 
do it

only outdoors and that is not fair to your neighbors, etc.

A much better way to do this if you must, is to take a piece of brass or
aluminum tubing the same size as the stick of butter you want. Fill the 
tube
with the very smallest sized lead shot (#9 bird shot) you can buy at a 
hunting
store - 25 pound bags: ca. $13- $18. Place a thick layer of 5 min epoxy on 
one
end. Let it set up, turn the tube over and place a another layer of epoxy 
on
the other end. You can latter remove (or add) some of the shot by drilling 
a
hole in the side of the tube to let it "drain" out into a container. Close 
with

tape.

There are other metals that can be uses, tungsten for one, but more 
expensive

than lead.

I've used this method for nose weight, fill the nose with the amount of 
lead

shot you need, coat with a thick layer of epoxy, STOPS any harmful vapors.
Drill a hole for changing amount, close hole with 1/4 inch button nylon 
bolt.

regards,
Jim


On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:04:55 +, "Robert Samuels" wrote:


I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of
butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt 
the

lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if
any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone
know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold
(cheaply)?

Robert Samuels ... St. Louis

_
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Jim Ealy
Education by Demonstration
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RE: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

2006-01-23 Thread John

"People who don't like those rules  don't fly that contest"

Blaine, Have you given any thought to the idea in your quote is just what
HAS happened. I am all the time hearing where the "sport" is loosing
following. Maybe the rules that allow all the high tech gadgets have driven
the costs so high that the pilots are already gone. Maybe they just go fly
by themselves or with other likeminded flyers and forgo the contest (like I
do). If you look at the LOFT site and see all the pilots and then look at
the # of contests they flew last year you may see a pattern. I attended most
of the contest (drove the cart) but only flew in four (4). You can't imagine
my surprise when I won the LOFT expert trophy for the year with only 4 (not
very high scoring) contests.


John


-Original Message-
From: Blaine Beron-Rawdon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:20 AM
To: Soaring
Subject: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

Gents,

I have been following the thread on sensors (varios and so on) in
contest sailplanes.  I have some comments and thoughts:

First off:  Rules for a contest evolve over time.  A group of flyers
becomes accustomed to those rules.  People who don't like those rules
don't fly that contest.  So when you ask your fellow competitors "do
you like the rules" they answer "yes".  When you ask "should we
permit something new?" they answer "no".  For me, this explains why
Darryl Perkins is resistant to rules changes - he is doing just fine
with the present rules!

Second:  The question of whether to allow varios in thermal duration
contests is almost trivial.  A better question is:  What other kinds
of contests could we run if we had onboard sensors and downlinks?
These contests might not appeal to the thermal duration purist, but
may attract all sorts of folks who have other, related interests.
Some possible sailplane contest concepts follow:

1.  On-field cross-country:  Using GPS-enabled sailplanes, race cross-
country around waypoints specified by the CD.  Minimum time wins.
These points can all be within safe range of the field, visibility
and landing-out wise.

2.  On-field cross-country for electric sailplanes:  Using GPS-
enabled sailplanes with milliamp-hour sensors, fly a cross country
course as above.  The winner uses the minimum electrical energy
(launch and on-course).

2a.  Duration for electric sailplanes:  Fly with milliamp-hour
sensors.  Stay up for a given period of time.  The winner uses the
least energy.

3.  Altitude gain:  Using altimeter-enabled sailplanes, attempt to
gain as much altitude above launch height as possible within a given
time period.  Greatest altitude gain wins.

4.  Thermal duration with fixed starting altitude:  Using altimeter-
enabled (with downlink), the CD can specify a maximum starting
altitude followed by a specified duration time.  This can be set up
so that deep zooms under the "limbo" are inhibited.  This could take
the launch out of the equation and could be used for electric
sailplanes.

All of these contests are feasible right now with available
electronics that cost a small part of the average molded sailplane
with good radio.  For example, Eagle Tree Systems components really
work and are so compact that they can be accommodated with little
compromise to the airplane.

Food for thought...

Blaine Beron-Rawdon
Envision Design
San Pedro, California


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Re: [RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems





In a message dated 1/23/2006 11:19:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
For me, this explains why  Darryl Perkins is resistant to rules changes - he is doing just fine  with the present rules!
I agree Blaine, what's the problem here?  I fly with a pic, or I fly without a pic.  I can win or place well either way at given times. Even if they are allowed, as they usually are these days, I may or may not use one.  Sometimes I like the quiet, sometimes I like to hear the chirp I became so accustomed to in full size sailplanes .  Nice to hear the "up" beep when you are 500' high over unfriendly terrain flying XC in a full size. :-)  Most of the time I don't turn on the receiver on a pic, if it's in my model, until I find good lift, then I check altitude, climb,  & battery mostly. I can do either, I'm not having the big problem like of some of the others coping with it.
                                                                                                             Bill G.
 
Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA

Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

2006-01-23 Thread Ben Diss





Lee-  I like that idea.  I currently tow on 22, but I'd gladly switch
to 20 if that made everyone's life easier.  I think it's a good idea.

-Ben

Lee Estingoy wrote:

  
  
  
  Guys,
   
  I've made a suggestion that we
consider putting tugs on freq's that end in 0, or are divisible by ten
for you engineers.  Then we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes
it a bit easier to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a
tug is conflicted by the glider guy.
   
  Alternatively, buy a synthesized
setup... and keep the tugs on a channel divisible by 10!
   
  If you don't like that idea, please
come up with another that establishes some generally acceptable tug
channels that will be easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever
your tug happens to be on...
   
  Lee Estingoy
  Counsel
  Castle Creations, Inc.
   
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To:
soaring@Airage.com

Sent:
Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject:
[RCSE] Johnny and Butch


Johnny,
I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it
58 and 59???
Can you help
CJ
--
Jack Strother 
Granger, IN 

LSF 2948 
LSF Level V #117 
LSF Official 1996 - 2004 
CSS Gold

[RCSE] Sailplane Sensor Systems

2006-01-23 Thread Blaine Beron-Rawdon

Gents,

I have been following the thread on sensors (varios and so on) in
contest sailplanes. I have some comments and thoughts:

First off: Rules for a contest evolve over time. A group of flyers
becomes accustomed to those rules. People who don't like those rules
don't fly that contest. So when you ask your fellow competitors "do
you like the rules" they answer "yes". When you ask "should we
permit something new?" they answer "no". For me, this explains why
Darryl Perkins is resistant to rules changes - he is doing just fine
with the present rules!

Second: The question of whether to allow varios in thermal duration
contests is almost trivial. A better question is: What other kinds
of contests could we run if we had onboard sensors and downlinks?
These contests might not appeal to the thermal duration purist, but
may attract all sorts of folks who have other, related interests.
Some possible sailplane contest concepts follow:

1. On-field cross-country: Using GPS-enabled sailplanes, race cross-
country around waypoints specified by the CD. Minimum time wins.
These points can all be within safe range of the field, visibility
and landing-out wise.

2. On-field cross-country for electric sailplanes: Using GPS-
enabled sailplanes with milliamp-hour sensors, fly a cross country
course as above. The winner uses the minimum electrical energy
(launch and on-course).

2a. Duration for electric sailplanes: Fly with milliamp-hour
sensors. Stay up for a given period of time. The winner uses the
least energy.

3. Altitude gain: Using altimeter-enabled sailplanes, attempt to
gain as much altitude above launch height as possible within a given
time period. Greatest altitude gain wins.

4. Thermal duration with fixed starting altitude: Using altimeter-
enabled (with downlink), the CD can specify a maximum starting
altitude followed by a specified duration time. This can be set up
so that deep zooms under the "limbo" are inhibited. This could take
the launch out of the equation and could be used for electric
sailplanes.

All of these contests are feasible right now with available
electronics that cost a small part of the average molded sailplane
with good radio. For example, Eagle Tree Systems components really
work and are so compact that they can be accommodated with little
compromise to the airplane.

Food for thought...

Blaine Beron-Rawdon
Envision Design
San Pedro, California

Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc

2006-01-23 Thread Jo Grini


I dont like it but I have to agree totally with Daryl.. ;-)
Though last WC in Canada some wondered why I had binoculars with me on the 
field... And many years ago I think they used bubble machines in WC F3B 
controlled by a Tx. Even smoke and rockets have been. I hope we never come 
to that again. I like to win by spotting the signs nature gives.
No I have never used any electronic equipment or any feedback from the plane 
but I did borrow a picolario a few months. It was nice to test different Rx 
batteries in the cold. Incredible how much power 6 digital servos use in the 
zoom. "warning, warning..."


Hilsen (Regards) Jojo
NEW: www.jojoen.no

- Original Message - 
From: "Daryl Perkins"

Subject: Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc



You guys don't get the zen side of it. The telemetry
is neat stuff, and fun to use I'm sure on non-contest
days. But it has no place in a contest.

Use them to learn about your model. Use them to learn
about your skill level. Use them to learn about lift.
But leave them at home on contest days.

If a soaring contest is no longer about recognizing
workable lift... what exactly are we contesting?

I have my own views, and I'm not always right...
well.. yes I am actually but I have to say that
the use of these things in a contest setting offends
me on every level.

Sandbagging is legal too... doesn't make it right.

2 cents,

D




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RE: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Andy Thonet

Hello,

I have made several molds for lead using the old fashion sand casting
method. 
I prefer silica sand as its very fine and packs smooth. Cut your butter
block shape out of wood or even foam. Use a small box for packing your sand
in. 
Wet the sand just enough so it holds it's shape and add about 1 inch in the
bottom of your box. Put your butter block in the center and pack more damp
sand around it. Carefully pull out the block and your ready to pour. I would
still pour slowly but I found since the sand it wet there is no spatter.

Good Luck, Andy
AKA Glidernut

-Original Message-
From: JIM EALY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:28 AM
To: Robert Samuels
Cc: soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] casting lead

Hello:
As you will hear from others, lead fumes are really bad news. If you must,
do it
only outdoors and that is not fair to your neighbors, etc.

A much better way to do this if you must, is to take a piece of brass or
aluminum tubing the same size as the stick of butter you want. Fill the tube
with the very smallest sized lead shot (#9 bird shot) you can buy at a
hunting
store - 25 pound bags: ca. $13- $18. Place a thick layer of 5 min epoxy on
one
end. Let it set up, turn the tube over and place a another layer of epoxy on
the other end. You can latter remove (or add) some of the shot by drilling a
hole in the side of the tube to let it "drain" out into a container. Close
with
tape.

There are other metals that can be uses, tungsten for one, but more
expensive
than lead.

I've used this method for nose weight, fill the nose with the amount of lead
shot you need, coat with a thick layer of epoxy, STOPS any harmful vapors.
Drill a hole for changing amount, close hole with 1/4 inch button nylon
bolt.
regards,
Jim

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:04:55 +, "Robert Samuels" wrote:

> I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of 
> butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt
the 
> lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if 
> any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone 
> know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold 
> (cheaply)?
> 
> Robert Samuels ... St. Louis
> 
> _
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! 
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> 
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe"
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turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are
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> 
> 

Jim Ealy
Education by Demonstration
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Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Erica and or Rob

Hey now,
Sure thing, you'll need a pair of work gloves, safety glasses or
better face shield, cheap sauce pan (from Good will), and a coffee can
filled with sand.

Weigh the lead out and put it in the cheap pan (don't *ever* use the
wife's good pots, *I* know...). Wet the sand and fill the coffee can,
carve out a space in the sand to the shape you want, pack it down *hard*.
Heat the lead till moulten and *carefuly* pour it in the mold, be *very*
careful and keep your face away from the can as the lead can spatter when
it hits the damp sand. Pour till full and let it sit for ten minutes. As
the lead cools it'll make a divit in the center of the pour, heat some
more lead and fill the divit. allow to cool over night and dump out the
can. Clean up the *toxic* mess (toss the sand and pot or store in sealed
plastic bags).
RobII

*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Erica Frank & Rob Carter II
"I believe in nothing; everything is sacred.
 I believe in everything; nothing is sacred."  --The Chink

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Robert Samuels wrote:

> I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of
> butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt the
> lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if
> any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone
> know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold
> (cheaply)?
>
> Robert Samuels ... St. Louis
>
> _
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
> "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
> unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
> Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
> text format
>

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Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
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Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread JIM EALY

Hello:
As you will hear from others, lead fumes are really bad news. If you must, do it
only outdoors and that is not fair to your neighbors, etc.

A much better way to do this if you must, is to take a piece of brass or
aluminum tubing the same size as the stick of butter you want. Fill the tube
with the very smallest sized lead shot (#9 bird shot) you can buy at a hunting
store - 25 pound bags: ca. $13- $18. Place a thick layer of 5 min epoxy on one
end. Let it set up, turn the tube over and place a another layer of epoxy on
the other end. You can latter remove (or add) some of the shot by drilling a
hole in the side of the tube to let it "drain" out into a container. Close with
tape.

There are other metals that can be uses, tungsten for one, but more expensive
than lead.

I've used this method for nose weight, fill the nose with the amount of lead
shot you need, coat with a thick layer of epoxy, STOPS any harmful vapors.
Drill a hole for changing amount, close hole with 1/4 inch button nylon bolt.
regards,
Jim

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:04:55 +, "Robert Samuels" wrote:

> I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of 
> butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt the 
> lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if 
> any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone 
> know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold 
> (cheaply)?
> 
> Robert Samuels ... St. Louis
> 
> _
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> 
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME
turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are
generally NOT in text format
> 
> 

Jim Ealy
Education by Demonstration
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[RCSE] Difficult to find materials

2006-01-23 Thread Denoferth





Actually, Tritium has a 12 year useful life in the green color. Less 
in Blue, Yellow and Red as used in gun sights. DennisI did find out that 
you get watches and other stuff that use tritium and phosphor to light up 
displays (life time is about 2 years on the tritium), but the real issue here is 
that I need a really big laser to start off the fusion reaction I wanted to try 
as an alternative to Li-Poly batteries, and it  just weighs too much

Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

2006-01-23 Thread Johnny Berlin




Lee, We have used this system for as long as I have 
been towing. It works for us.
 
If we stay with this then everone will know what 
the tug freqs are and there will be no problems. And ( in my opion) we dont need 
more than 2 freqs for the tugs.
 
Johnny and Butch
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lee 
  Estingoy 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@Airage.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and 
Butch
  
  Guys,
   
  I've made a suggestion that we consider putting 
  tugs on freq's that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  
  Then we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier to 
  deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is conflicted by 
  the glider guy.
   
  Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and 
  keep the tugs on a channel divisible by 10!
   
  If you don't like that idea, please come up with 
  another that establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will be 
  easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens to be 
  on...
   
  Lee Estingoy
  Counsel
  Castle Creations, Inc.
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: soaring@Airage.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 
AM
Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Johnny,
I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it 58 and 
59???
Can you help
CJ
--Jack Strother Granger, IN 
LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS 
Gold

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Wwing




In a message dated 01/23/2006 8:05:09 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt the lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold (cheaply)?Robert Samuels ... St. Louis
I made some lead "coins" for nose weight just by boring some 1 inch diameter holes into a wooden 2 x 4. The wood ended up being scorched by the torch but it contained the lead in the desired shape. It seems like your shape is simple enough that wood might work for it, if the wood blocks comprising the mold are big enough to resist igniting (or big enough not to mind having parts of their surface momentarily go up in flames before you smother them) as you focus the torch on the lead. You might want to slope the sides somewhat to facilitate removal of the lead, or you could just hack away the wood for a one time shot. I did my work on the garage floor with the door open. No laundry, towels in the current rotation or my wife's wedding dress were used to have on hand for flame smothering duty :)
 
Bill Wingstedt

RE: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Lee,

For the past Nat's and all the years of the JR AeroTow we've put the Tugs on 59 
and 60. We've had no problems getting planes up in the air with 2 tugs 
operating constantly. For other events I guess it's up to the organizer. 

Hope everyone makes it out to Monticello, Il for this years JR AeroTow, May 
31st through April 4th.

Thanks,
John

-Original Message-
From: Lee Estingoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@Airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

Guys,

I've made a suggestion that we consider putting tugs on freq's that end in 0, 
or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  Then we keep the gliders off those 
channels.  Makes it a bit easier to deal with the bigger events.  Really sucks 
when a tug is conflicted by the glider guy.

Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep the tugs on a channel 
divisible by 10!

If you don't like that idea, please come up with another that establishes some 
generally acceptable tug channels that will be easy to explain and fair to all, 
not whatever your tug happens to be on...

Lee Estingoy
Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.
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unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Brian Chan


At 8:04 AM -0600 1/23/06, Robert Samuels wrote:
I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick 
of butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat 
to melt the lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not 
to spend much (if any) money for these items as it will be a one 
time project.  Does anyone know what I can use to melt lead in and 
how to construct a one time mold (cheaply)?


Robert Samuels ... St. Louis



You can melt lead in a tin can. Like a campbell soup can is good, 
because it was drawn out with a sheet in stead of soldered ends. Cut 
the top off and bend the lip to form a spout so the lead can be pour 
out easily.
I made my "mold" out of 1/4" balsa wood. Use a piece of pine for the 
bottom and 1/4" balsa to form the sides. It can survive about 2-3 
"molding".


Warning: pour the molten lead in slowly and get the can as close to 
the mold as you can. Splatter lead on bare skin can be a very 
unpleasant experience.



Brian


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Re: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch

2006-01-23 Thread Lee Estingoy




Guys,
 
I've made a suggestion that we consider putting 
tugs on freq's that end in 0, or are divisible by ten for you engineers.  
Then we keep the gliders off those channels.  Makes it a bit easier to deal 
with the bigger events.  Really sucks when a tug is conflicted by the 
glider guy.
 
Alternatively, buy a synthesized setup... and keep 
the tugs on a channel divisible by 10!
 
If you don't like that idea, please come up with 
another that establishes some generally acceptable tug channels that will be 
easy to explain and fair to all, not whatever your tug happens to be 
on...
 
Lee Estingoy
Counsel
Castle Creations, Inc.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: soaring@Airage.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:16 
  AM
  Subject: [RCSE] Johnny and Butch
  
  Johnny,
  I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it 58 and 
  59???
  Can you help
  CJ
  --Jack Strother Granger, IN 
  LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS 
  Gold

Re: [RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Anker Berg-Sonne

You can make molds out of plaster of Paris, but
you have to dry the mold completely, preferably
in an oven. You know the mold is dry when it
becomes really light. A wet mold is heavy.

If you don't dry the mold it will let off steam
when you pour the lead into it and the lead will
splatter. You can burn yourself seriously if it splatters on you.

Anker

At 09:04 AM 1/23/2006, Robert Samuels wrote:
I want to cast some lead for ballast into a
shape resembling a stick of butter. I have the
lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to
melt the lead but I don't have a ladle nor a
mold. I prefer not to spend much (if any) money
for these items as it will be a one time
project. Does anyone know what I can use to
melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold (cheaply)?

Robert Samuels ... St. Louis

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[RCSE] RE: casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Walter Carter

Lead can be melted in a small iron skillet on any stove. The one I use has 
curved lip for pouring. Cheap and efficient. Others may suggest mold design. 



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[RCSE] casting lead

2006-01-23 Thread Robert Samuels

I want to cast some lead for ballast into a shape resembling a stick of 
butter.   I have the lead and a torch that puts out enough heat to melt the 
lead but I don't have a ladle nor a mold.  I prefer not to spend much (if 
any) money for these items as it will be a one time project.  Does anyone 
know what I can use to melt lead in and how to construct a one time mold 
(cheaply)?


Robert Samuels ... St. Louis

_
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[RCSE] Johnny and Butch


Johnny,
I will need a set og 59 and 60 JR Xtals for tugging, or is it 58 and 59???
Can you help
CJ
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold

[RCSE] WTB MPX 12 Chanel Reciever Xtal Ch. 56


Please reply Offline
Tnx
CJ
 
--Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold

Re: [RCSE] assisted soaring,etc