[RCSE] Supra Fuse
This item was just put on Ebay. I have had these parts about two years now. originally purchased from Craig Greening. I never did get the wing for it. Fuse is by Mike Lachowski and boom I think is from Barry or Tailboom.com?? Tail boom is 1 3/16 od 11/16 od X 35 1/2 long. Fuse and boom 61 + or - Photos on ebay Item # 260278334901 if link does not work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260278334901ru=http://toys.search.ebay.com:80/260278334901_Radio-Control-Control-Line_W0QQcatrefZC6QQdfspZ32QQfposZ89423QQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ32QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ2562QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZinsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbsQQfviZ1 LeeCox-Nevada, U.S.A. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Supra stab mount
H I haven't seen one broken while landing, but my flying buddy, Don Harban, found that the pins in the pivot on his Supra stab mount were loosened and was fortunately able to fix the situation prior to loosing a ship. Another type of problem can occur with these mounts if not enough epoxy is applied between the boom surface under the rearward facing edge of the ring portion of the mount. I'm thinking that maybe some failures might have occurred due to either of these situations? I keep an extra mount for each ship (Supra, Ava) because it costs too much to go to an out-of-contest, especially if you suffer damage and can't fly. Anyway, its a good idea to check the pivot after every flight. These ships are getting to be like F1 vehicles in that they are edgy and need more maintenance than your average beater. . Just a thought. Best Regards; D.O. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra and Blaster II templates
I received my Supra and Blaster II flap and aileron templates from Barry Kennedy yesterday. They are very well done, fit perfectly and provide information on alignment that cannot be derived easily. All you Supra and Blaster II owners should immediately order your set before the supply is exhausted. I know it makes a great difference to the Supra and I look forward to using it on the Blaster II (temporarily disasembled for a trip to Florida). Thanks Barry. Don Richmond San Diego, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] _www.hilaunch.com_ (http://www.hilaunch.com/) **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15ncid=aolhom000301)
[RCSE] Supra Fuse Update
Thanks for all of your replies to my inquiry re a Supra fuse. I have found one and it is on it's way to me as I type. Cheers, jer Jerry Marty Limber Williamsburg, VA [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Fuse
Hi all, I'm in the market for a Supra fuse. I wonder if Mike Lachowski is still selling them ??? I can be contacted at the e-mail address below. Thanks, jer Jerry Marty Limber Williamsburg, VA [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra Fuse
I have a super fuse its from a spirit 100 and its been repaired so many times it must be super by now...how much will you offer? On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Jer Marty Limber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm in the market for a Supra fuse. I wonder if Mike Lachowski is still selling them ??? I can be contacted at the e-mail address below. Thanks, jer Jerry Marty Limber Williamsburg, VA [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra Fuse
Sounds Supra heavy with all the repairs :) -Original Message- From: David Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:18 PM To: Jer Marty Limber Cc: RCSE Post Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra Fuse I have a super fuse its from a spirit 100 and its been repaired so many times it must be super by now...how much will you offer? On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Jer Marty Limber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm in the market for a Supra fuse. I wonder if Mike Lachowski is still selling them ??? I can be contacted at the e-mail address below. Thanks, jer Jerry Marty Limber Williamsburg, VA [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra Flap Link Insert Changed
I used .03 CF rods to pin the top and bottom skins around the bump together. Seems to work well. Steve Meyer LSF IV Racine, WI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: / Today was the last day for top actuated flaps. Lots of glue, fiberglass tape and words did not fix the problem so tonight they will be converted to bottom horns and linkage. After two years of landing with the flaps down, the mounts seem to unrepairable. If I had DP's thumbs, I could get the flaps up before they hit the ground./ The Supra has come a long way baby :-) With the help of all of us. Wing bolt mount pod changes, longer bolts, wing sub rib changes, layup changes, and both the aileron link insert and now flap inserts too...and lets not forget that now the ailerons go all the way to the tips...they are lighter now and stiffer too on the current batch of wings coming to Barry's den of storage. A short while back, well maybe a year or so, it was pretty clear that the area where the aileron inserts were mounted and how they were mounted needed to be changed for linkage geometry and durability, you can tell the new version because the hump is a bit taller. Those of you who hit the landing spot too hard like me, find pretty soon a bubble in the skin around the flap inserts on top. And the flaps not moving together and a lot of slop too. You glue it and glue it but in the end like Don the answer is to put carbon horns in the bottom The new wing has a far more durable link insert for both the ailerons and flaps. Mine? I think I have one more gluing left before I switch over to bottom horns :-) Gordy // RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Flap Link Insert Changed
Today was the last day for top actuated flaps. Lots of glue, fiberglass tape and words did not fix the problem so tonight they will be converted to bottom horns and linkage. After two years of landing with the flaps down, the mounts seem to unrepairable. If I had DP's thumbs, I could get the flaps up before they hit the ground. The Supra has come a long way baby :-) With the help of all of us. Wing bolt mount pod changes, longer bolts, wing sub rib changes, layup changes, and both the aileron link insert and now flap inserts too...and lets not forget that now the ailerons go all the way to the tips...they are lighter now and stiffer too on the current batch of wings coming to Barry's den of storage. A short while back, well maybe a year or so, it was pretty clear that the area where the aileron inserts were mounted and how they were mounted needed to be changed for linkage geometry and durability, you can tell the new version because the hump is a bit taller. Those of you who hit the landing spot too hard like me, find pretty soon a bubble in the skin around the flap inserts on top. And the flaps not moving together and a lot of slop too. You glue it and glue it but in the end like Don the answer is to put carbon horns in the bottom The new wing has a far more durable link insert for both the ailerons and flaps. Mine? I think I have one more gluing left before I switch over to bottom horns :-) Gordy **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48)
[RCSE] Supra 2.4GHz install
For what it's worth, here is a link to a series of posts on a Supra 2.4 GHz radio install I did without the 2.4 friendly fuselage. I used a Spektrum system and hacked the main receiver to remove the remote receivers that are included inside. This allowed me to place 3 remote receivers in both wingtips and the tail: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595288page=4pp=30 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra - Battery Life
I thought I would share it some information. If I already posted this prior, forgive the duplication. A couple of weeks ago I put my new ( used #57 ) Supra up for the first time. The night before I peaked the battery pack using my Triton charger, charging at 200 mAh. This Supra uses 4 2/3A 1400 mAh cells. It looks like the standard Kennedy Composites battery pack. At the field I did several range checks and hand throws to check trim. I then took about 10 short flights, most under 3 minutes, as I was focused on trimming and testing landing mixes. These were launched off a winch that was set out about 600 feet. Later in the day I logged an 87 minute flight in a nice big thermal. Overall I believe my total system on time for the day was about 2 hours 30 minutes including air time and ground work time. I left the plane sitting for two days after those flights and decided to check the pack to see what had been used. The pack was at 4.9V through the charge port. I recharged on my Triton charger at 200 ma. It took 680 mA to come back to peak, or about 1/2 the pack capacity. This accounts for the day's flying plus two days of sitting. It is not often I check may useage so closely so I thought I would share it. I have 6 airtronics digital servos in the bird and a Hitec Super Slim 72 MHz receiver. Thought you might find this information useful. Best regards, Ed Anderson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Fusalage for Sale
I got a 2.4 friendly fuse from Barry. I have the original in very good condition (never crashed). The pod is yellow and the fin is blue. The push rods are internal to the boom and have very low resistance. The parts for a new fuse cost about $380. I will sell this one in Phoenix for $330. Bruce Twining RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra AUW (and a plea for help)
I know some guys get real creative about building out Supras to keep them light. I didn't do that. All I did was to build out my newest Supra with the hardware provided. It's the 2.4 ghz friendly Carbon-Lite and new ailerons all the way to the tip version. Bumblebee colors - yellow over black. I flew it a few days ago at 61.5 ounces. That was without the ballast tube. The thing flies and even looks great... the darn thing just keeps growing on me... I applaud Barry for a commitment to improve on an already amazing airframe. That's one of the few models that gets significantly better the lighter it gets. Thanks Barry. On another note - the US F3J team needs your help. We are facing an overwhealming debt to represent the US at the World Champs in Turkey. Well in excess of 30 thousand buckaroos. Please go to the site and donate, buy, give give give http:/usf3jteam.com Probably the best bang for your buck would be raffle tickets, with prize values well in excess of raffle tix sold. (so far) A few team members will also be at the SWC if you want to get some merchandise there as well. Thank you for your support and bandwidth. D RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
- Original Message ... I presented my opinions as to what is a benchmark, and specifically stated my qualifications = This thread seems to be confused by the difference between the words benchmark and landmark. Way back at the beginning, the original reference to a benchmark used the word correctly, viz. as a convenient standard for measurement or comparison. Various posters thereafter have gone off in the direction of trying to identify designs that had neat original ideas and significantly impacted later thought. The word for that is landmark. Libor is a benchmark; Marbury v Madison was a landmark. To say a plane floats better or worse or similarly to an Ava is to use an Ava as a benchmark. The speaker may or may not regard the Ava as a landmark design, but it's a convenient benchmark because everybody knows how an Ava flies. What constitutes a landmark is in the eye of the beholder. Roughly speaking, it's a design like the Fletcher or the JW-DS or the Allegro that looked unusual at the time but spawned a generation of similar planes.
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Totally agree, thanks for sharing. My bench marks are: DLG Photon II Electric Moldie: Mini Graphite Big Laminated Foam: FVK Signal Landmark: FVK Bandit On Dec 1, 2007 10:58 AM, tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message ... I presented my opinions as to what is a benchmark, and specifically stated my qualifications = This thread seems to be confused by the difference between the words benchmark and landmark. Way back at the beginning, the original reference to a benchmark used the word correctly, viz. as a convenient standard for measurement or comparison. Various posters thereafter have gone off in the direction of trying to identify designs that had neat original ideas and significantly impacted later thought. The word for that is landmark. Libor is a benchmark; Marbury v Madison was a landmark. To say a plane floats better or worse or similarly to an Ava is to use an Ava as a benchmark. The speaker may or may not regard the Ava as a landmark design, but it's a convenient benchmark because everybody knows how an Ava flies. What constitutes a landmark is in the eye of the beholder. Roughly speaking, it's a design like the Fletcher or the JW-DS or the Allegro that looked unusual at the time but spawned a generation of similar planes.
Re: [RCSE] Supra History
- Original Message ...Mark never built a 130 Aegea wing. The 130 Aegea was a wing design that he did for some CRRC club members who wanted to have a wing with the AG series airfoils for their Mantis sailplanes The design threads behind the Aegea, which was a Mantis derivative, and the Bubble Dancer, which was a larger version of the Allegro, eventually came together in the design of the Supra. For an overview of some of that history, see: http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/RCSD-2003/RCSD-2003-12.pdf For drawings of the very first Allegro, see: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegro2m/markdrela_allegro2m.htm For a picture of a NASA project led by Mark Drela that shows the inspiration for some of these models, see: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/Daedalus/Medium/EC87-0014-8.jpg
RE: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Dr. Drela and Tom Kiesling are Supra-men with the help of Phil Barnes. And TK worked with Barry Kennedy to produce the molded Supra. At least that's what I though. JD From: Jay Hunter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:49 PM To: RCSE posting Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs Thanks Phil... I thought the Supra was a refinement of one of Drela's earlier planes. which was the agea right? On Nov 30, 2007 2:25 PM, Phil Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jay Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought the supra was a renfinement of the the thermal dancer? Oh, Jay :-( I guess we need to forgive you since you haven't been around soaring very much. The Thermal Dancer came well after the Supra and was meant to be a low cost, two piece wing model based on the Supra airfoils and tail group. Sort of a blending of the NSP bagged wing methods with the Supra airfoils and tail arrangement. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Thanks Phil... I thought the Supra was a refinement of one of Drela's earlier planes. which was the agea right? On Nov 30, 2007 2:25 PM, Phil Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jay Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought the supra was a renfinement of the the thermal dancer? Oh, Jay :-( I guess we need to forgive you since you haven't been around soaring very much. The Thermal Dancer came well after the Supra and was meant to be a low cost, two piece wing model based on the Supra airfoils and tail group. Sort of a blending of the NSP bagged wing methods with the Supra airfoils and tail arrangement. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra History
- Original Message - From: Jay Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought the Supra was a refinement of one of Drela's earlier planes. which was the agea right? Yes. Mark never built a 130 Aegea wing. The 130 Aegea was a wing design that he did for some CRRC club members who wanted to have a wing with the AG series airfoils for their Mantis sailplanes. Details in this link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4269155#post4269155 Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
- Original Message - From: Jay Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought the supra was a renfinement of the the thermal dancer? Oh, Jay :-( I guess we need to forgive you since you haven't been around soaring very much. The Thermal Dancer came well after the Supra and was meant to be a low cost, two piece wing model based on the Supra airfoils and tail group. Sort of a blending of the NSP bagged wing methods with the Supra airfoils and tail arrangement. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
I thought the supra was a renfinement of the the thermal dancer? On Nov 29, 2007 8:41 PM, Mike Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell me what model the Supra is a refinement of? Wright flyer? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. With that said, the Onyz, or Sharon, or Supra, in fact nearly 99% of the planes on the market currently are really just refinements to existing designs, and really are not improvements. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Hi Mike, First of all, I presented my opinions as to what is a benchmark, and specifically stated my qualifications. They can differ from the thoughts of others, and on this exchange everyone had the ability to express their views. This is a philosophical discussion. Are you just trying to give me a rough time for my opinions?? LOLOLOL However, in regard to what my opinions are, I would love to express why I chose the examples that I did, and group together others. Let's take for example a few items. First, most designers attempt to take the best feature of each plane and try to merge it together into an overall better plane. Is this a real improvement per se? Perhaps it is. It is not in my benchmarks. Second, I believe that changing just the airfoil does not necessarily represent a benchmark. Mark Drela has done exceptional work which I admire, as have many other designers like JW, DP, many Europeans, among others. However, does using an airfoil and then modeling a new wing planform constitute a benchmark? My benchmarks were something that produced a significant trend. The planes themselves might not have survived because their features were rapidly incorporated into other models, but they were pioneers. I do not think the Supras or Onyx, or some of the others are just that much different (IMHO). With that said, I look the difference or similarities between the following planes: The Photon and the Ava: Hmmm, the AVA is just a scaled up Photon with a little more wing taper, dihedral, but it is of the same construction. There are others from the Eastern European manufacturers that have similar designs and structural features. The Super Gee I and the Supra: Hmmm, again the Supra is an enlarged Super Gee. It uses the same basic tailgroup, the same and beefier stab mount, light weight construction, specific wing planforms and airfoils. They seem alike, but does size matter when they are used for two separate events? We see designers using features that fit their specific requirements. Obviously, this is quite evident when MacCready built a large Microfilm indoor model because it performed the functions he required. Consider SpaceShip One, the shuttlecock wing feature is not much more than a dethermalizer for freeflight planes used for over 50 years. Thank goodness our modeling experiences go to good uses. But does that take away from the achievements of these great men? No. What I see is that they took what they knew, added their take and came up with a plane that performed the function they required. In our sport, the F3B/F3J planes are taking minor variations and trying to group them together. The variations are not major. The Sharons', Supras, Schpotdorkers, Milleniums, and many other composite ships are designed trying to optimize a specific task. We are eventually going to reach a point of diminishing returns. However, why do new planes come out, if not for their new aerodynamics? They come out routinely, in perhaps 9 month intervals, because of the market. People and pilots always want the latest and greatest, and pay for that. So IMHO, which I believe I can express, I am waiting for that significant improvement to come out. Is the improvement out there? I really hope so. It will become the benchmark. But is the Wright Flyer with wing warping any different than the dynamic wing warping using electrochemical induced composites that are currently being explored? The mechanics are different, but the aerodyamincs is the same. I wonder. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs From: Mike Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, November 29, 2007 5:41 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Fred Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED], RCSE soaring@airage.com Can you tell me what model the Supra is a refinement of? Wright flyer? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. With that said, the Onyz, or Sharon, or Supra, in fact nearly 99% of the planes on the market currently are really just refinements to existing designs, and really are not improvements. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe
[RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. With that said, the Onyz, or Sharon, or Supra, in fact nearly 99% of the planes on the market currently are really just refinements to existing designs, and really are not improvements. The problem with benchmarks is that they generally last a very short time, perhaps only one contest, or one weekend of flying. Why? Because if any improvement is so radical that it makes the plane fly 3-6% better, it will be incorporated into the next generation model, or an existing model, and it's distinctiveness rapidly lost. So, in my opinion, the following might be considered benchmarks: 1) The Nelson KA6. You know this plane. It is perhaps the first fully fiberglass and molded, aerobatic, 12 ft R/C sailplane of the 1970's. 2) The Graupner Cirrus. Again in the 1970's, it was the first fully plastic molded fuselage. It has ailerons, flying stab, was very light for it's time. 3) The EPP Zagi wing: I look at this as the first time we could fly combat with a wing and not have to spend so much time in the shop fixing planes. Besides the durability (a benchmark), EPP would permit a lot of PSS planes to be made, and got a lot of simulator pilots and computer geeks out to the slope. 4) The Aquila: When Skip Miller added a semisymmetrical airfoil to the plane, we saw the advent of new types of airfoils being used that provided greater range. 5) The Mirage: Designed by Blaine Rawdon, this was one of the early designs that spurred lightweight floater sailplanes. It also started the thick vs Thin debate, started winch development to the strong ones we have today. It spurred first the thick flat bottomed sections, but later as CF was put in the spars, lead to the planes that we currently fly today. An Ava or Bubble Dancer, etc, is nothing more than a tricked up Mirage. 6) SWK MK I: You probably don't know this model, but it was designed by Jerry Krainock and flown by him to several cross country distance records prior to Joe Wurts' current records. I had a thick airfoil, was foam cored, and was very fast. 7) The Sunbird: Dave Thornburg designed this early HLG, but this HLG was not the first, nor the best HLG, out there for its time. It did have a big influence in getting HLG going, as did the Mirage and others. Most other HLGs, in my opinion, just refinements. 8) The Upstart: The Upstart was the first DLG used in competition. Tip launching was first pioneered by Dick Barker and Harold Locke, in Seattle, and Dick Barker used the launching method to be able to keep up with the overhand throws of Joe Wurts and the rest. When EVERYONE else realized that they could use this method, most effectively by adding a gyro to their current planes, DLG became the only method for launching. Gyros are now gone by good DLG design and airfoiled tailgroups, but overall the UpStart was the benchmark. It did not last long. 9) The Todi: Bob Dodgsen brought out this first flaperon ship, which used mechanical mixers for the flaperons. The Ace MicroPro TX as well as early JR radio designs permitted planes to be built with electronic rather than mechanical mixers. The Todi represented the first time a TD plane could use airfoil camber for tasks. So, EVERY TD ship that uses any sort of aileron and flap changing owes it's existence to the Todi. They are refinements. 10) The Challenger: Designed by Otto Heitdecker, this large flapperon plane was a precursor to the subsequent larger Maestro designs of Dodgsen. Otto was a dominating pilot of the SOAR nats years. He can be compared to all of us that fly molded flapped ship today. 11) Sitars/Dohle: German designs, they were early precursors to F3B ships, molded, new HQ airfoils, flapped. Basically it showed that multiple models from the same molds can be made for competition and all fly the same. 12) Hobie Hawk: Designed by Hobie Alder, the plane represented one of the first mass produced composite laminated planes. It spurred vacuum bagging techniques, as well as foam cutting and fiberglass skins, then CF use. It was not a great contest winner, but the building techniques it used lead to what we currently are refining today. 13) Rolf Decker Designs: I cannot quote which planes were built by Rolf Decker, but Rolf had some of the first really great F3B molded planes. For example, he had a F3B plane that had telescoping wings. For speed it pulled the wings in and for thermaling, they were expanded. The building techniques, airfoils, and plane moments in current F3B designs have origins here. 14) Thermic 50: This is a Goldberg
RE: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Ryan, Correct, The Uplink was Dick's plane. Fiberglass wings, T-Tail, Tip launched. The Upstart was a foamie by Dave Robelyn, I believe, manufactured for Ace, I think. Apologies to Dick. If someone want to see a pictire of the UpLink Click here: http://www.spieltek.com/images/DB-Uplink10.jpg Additionally, my list is not exclusive. There are many more planes that one can say contributed as benchmarks. Obviously we can go on. Thanks. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs From: rdwoebke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, November 29, 2007 10:53 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: other HLGs, in my opinion, just refinements. 8) The Upstart: The Upstart was the first DLG used in competition. Tip launching was first pioneered by Dick Barker and Harold Locke, in Seattle, and Dick Barker used the launching method to be able to keep up with the overhand throws of Joe Wurts and the rest. When EVERYONE else realized that they could use this method, most effectively by adding a gyro to their current planes, DLG became the only method for launching. Gyros are now gone by good DLG design and airfoiled tailgroups, but overall the UpStart was the benchmark. It did not last long. Hey Chris, I think you meant Uplink, not upstart... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Can you tell me what model the Supra is a refinement of? Wright flyer? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. With that said, the Onyz, or Sharon, or Supra, in fact nearly 99% of the planes on the market currently are really just refinements to existing designs, and really are not improvements. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW?? Benchmark? Doesn't take a Soaring Lord to figure it out.
There may be better or more talented pilots than I but there isn't anyone with network experience in Soaring...but that hardly anoints me as the determiner of what qualifies a sailplane as one of the bench mark ships in RC history. That's a title that is earned by the model. Dave offered up: Gordy self proclaimed himself with that title. :-) Because he didn't have anything of value to contribute to the topic. Paul mentioned it happens when a phrase is attached to it : It launches like a __. Or, It ranges out like a _. Or, It hangs like a _. Or even, It lands like a _. But sorry, that's not even close to what earns a specific model its spot as one of the bench mark spots in RC history (by the way AVA earned its spot too). Paul listed some planes with one being the Icon. Icon sort of fits sideways into the category because of it's price, American moldy and JW having designed it. Definitely the Falcon series are on the family tree and Super V. Hobie, Pelican, Magic, Logic, Addiction/Compulsion, Sharon, Pike...easy to determine which models mark a turning point in RC history when you understand the criteria. Keep in mind ,its not about what you 'think' or 'feel' is a great sailplane, its about what it contributed in the greater scope of things. Skeeter is there too, not for its winning ability but for its places as the Rodney Dangerfield of RC soaring. A bench mark would be 1980 for instance...it refers to planes produce before that datethat date groups a turning point in RC sailplane design history. Joe R mentioned this below, and while he was implying that early versions fluttered or some such it loses the right to be considered bench mark status. The Supra is the most documented sailplane since it's release to the public, with it's many issues depending what serial number you have. I cannot agree that fits a standard for bench mark status. However the opposite is what confirmed that the Supra was indeed a bench mark ship. In spite of its early 'construction' shortcomings, it was recognizable even back then by all, or it would have 'folded'...but instead it thrived. When planes like the Duck, Cirrus, etc made their mark, and there were those models that are 'just like it only better' produced. A good thing by the way...but they are the 'others' and can never become the 'bench mark'. Its not about liking the model, its about how it is received, its record and its longevity. Levoe, Selig, Drela, Renaud a long the RC time line there are those 'peaks' that spike high enough for all to see. Supra and AVA are there. A winning plane is the one that a pilot puts in precisely 10mins of air, and that the pilot puts its nose on the 100. That doesn't make it a bench mark design, but in the case of the pilot who does it consistently at all levels of competition, over a long period of years...does qualify the pilot as a bench mark in RC history. Gordy On the beach in Westchester NY tomorrow. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW?? Benchmark? Doesn't take a Soaring Lord to figure it out.
well Gordy just used up 14 paragraph to say nothing he must be on the road. Would have been out flying today but it was snowing. So I did some repair to a couple of ducks. Martin Doney Baldwin, MI (the middle of nowhere) LSF 7429 level IV
[RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW??
I'm shopping for a new TD ship. Have settled on either a Supra or an Onyx JW. California conditions. Bad left eye makes the Onyx a probable choice--easier to see. Also, which Supra?? Comments appreciated. Mike Clancy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Harnesses?
Is anyone selling a lightweight wiring harness for the Supra, or am I going to have to solder one up myself? Does Simon L. or Tom H. have one for sale yet? Cheers - Jim Laurel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra Harnesses?
Hi Jim, Although I have an elegant solution, no one has stepped up to try one yet; Try and imagine a 15pin fuselage/center panel connector that is plug-and-play (PnP) that is similar (in form-factor) to the recognized DB-style in use now, but is less than half the size (micro-D). This particular high-reliability connector system is used in aerospace applications where failure is simply not an option. Space-grade lead material (pigtails) are integral to the pin/spring contacts and are back-potted (the electrical leads come as part of the connector system). With 3A current handling (fom -55C to +150C, 24awg/gold contact and very high cyclic-ability), this miniature system is loafing at it's job in our applications. The major benefit is they are a no-brainer to fit into the physical constraints of the pod. However they double the cost of a typical high-performance harness similar to what I normally build for competition purposes. As far as the center panel to tip panel connection, I still employ the exceedingly reliable KK series connector system. Of course, everything is plug-and-play. regards Jim Laurel wrote: Is anyone selling a lightweight wiring harness for the Supra, or am I going to have to solder one up myself? Does Simon L. or Tom H. have one for sale yet? Cheers - Jim Laurel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Choice?
Well, I plan on getting a new Supra for the 2007 season and was wondering which version I should get? Barry has standard a carbon and kevlar molded versions. Any suggestions? I'm leaning toward the carbon version. Thanks Dennis Hoyle WMSS www.rcsoaring.org
Re: [RCSE] Supra Choice?
I am ordering the Carbon soon. From what I understand, the Standard might have problems with hard launches in wind, due to strength. I spoke to Barry about the difference between the Carbon and Kevlar, and the carbon seems like the one to get from my standpoint. Give him a call and he will tell you. chip On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:32:15 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Well, I plan on getting a new Supra for the 2007 season and was wondering which version I should get? Barry has standard a carbon and kevlar molded versions. Any suggestions? I'm leaning toward the carbon version. Thanks Dennis Hoyle WMSS www.rcsoaring.org -- WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra is sold
The Supra is gone guys. Thanks very much for the interest! Randy McCleave RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra For Sale
RTF less Rx, perfect condition, all digital, fiberglass wing version white over violet, unique auto connect centersection with locating bushings ala Tragi, credit to Mike Fox - tips are auto connect as well, reinforced pylon, it would be tough to beat this assy. job. $1500.00 delivered to Masters or shipping and insurance extra. Don't worry, I have another one! Thanks, Randy McCleave 316-523-2361 Work 316-522-7441 Home RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra For Sale
Title: Supra For Sale Molded Supra w/ fiberglass wing, white over violet, New RTF w/ your Rx, all digital, unique auto connect wing center panel w/ bushings and D 9 ala Tragi, plug and play tips. You probably can't top this build job. Plane's been flown and is ready - don't worry, I have another one! $1500.00 plus shipping or will deliver to the Masters (my preference) I can be reached at: 316-523-2361 Work 316-522-7441 Home [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work
[RCSE] Supra For Sale
Title: Supra For Sale Forgot to sign this ealier. Thanks for looking, Randy McCleave Molded Supra w/ fiberglass wing, white over violet, New RTF w/ your Rx, all digital, unique auto connect wing center panel w/ bushings and D 9 ala Tragi, plug and play tips. You probably can't top this build job. Plane's been flown and is ready - don't worry, I have another one! $1500.00 plus shipping or will deliver to the Masters (my preference) I can be reached at: 316-523-2361 Work 316-522-7441 Home [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
I learned a long time ago that by coupling flaps to ailerons the model would track better. (And yes, every model) My first experience with this was with a slope racer (Swift 800) with a short tail moment, and undersized V-tail. I had trouble getting it to track properly at different ballasted weights, differing lift conditions and airspeeds. A slope racer needs to track well in all conditions and quickly changing conditions. When I say it would track better, I mean it would initiate roll with less adverse yaw. 30-40% seemed to work best (if the flaps were built to accept this much - if not, as much as I could get without binding). I have translated this to every model I've flown since then, and model set up is much easier. Dr Drela's explanation makes a lot of sense. I love it when the really smart aero guys verify my findings... ;-) I heard someone talking about turning with ailerons. We don't turn with ailerons, we initiate roll with ailerons. We want to do this as effortlessly and cleanly (axially) as possible, and create a minimum of adverse yaw. With the flaps coupled, I can run less total aileron throw for the required roll rate, less differential, and less rudder coupling to accomplish an axial roll into the bank. Thanks Mark D for putting so much time and effort into this soaring thing. And Mike L - I guess I'll switch my F3B models to poly ships... you know... to keep the wing clean and use rudder... ;-) And Mike Smith - insert Daryl giving the raspberries... ;-)~ (Sorry guys, but Mike didn't used to couple the flaps on his Sharons - I always... uh... fixed his program when I borrowed his planes) Have fun guys! D __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
Brent, The wonderful thing about this hobby is that you don't have to believe anyone! Give the options a personal flight test and decide for yourself what you like the best. Aircraft design theory is a wonderful thing but in the end what you are able to demonstrate for yourself needs to be the deciding factor. Don't discount that in the future, as your skills progress, you may find a different answer to the same question. Strange but true. Hope this helps Rick At 09:23 AM 8/21/2006, Douglas, Brent wrote: Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
Brent, Rick is right on with his great post, print it and glue it to the top of your flight box for future reference. Good Thermal Hunting Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: Rick Eckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Douglas, Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring Digest soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost Brent, The wonderful thing about this hobby is that you don't have to believe anyone! Give the options a personal flight test and decide for yourself what you like the best. Aircraft design theory is a wonderful thing but in the end what you are able to demonstrate for yourself needs to be the deciding factor. Don't discount that in the future, as your skills progress, you may find a different answer to the same question. Strange but true. Hope this helps Rick At 09:23 AM 8/21/2006, Douglas, Brent wrote: Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
Brent - As with so many issues that we all worry about endlessly, this one is pretty minor. Yes, the plane will be very slightly more efficient if you mix the flaps with the ailerons correctly. But, if a guy without his flaps and ailerons mixed puts his plane in better air and closer to the pin he'll beat you every time. The right answer is to set the plane up as best you can late at night when you can't fly anyway, and spend every sparedaylight hour outlearning how to fly and spot lift better in every conceivable situation. Try the different programming and see if you can tell any difference. Mostly you can't, so don't worry about it. As my OFB Jim Thomas says, "Do that pilot sh*t Bubba." happy trails Rob G From: "Douglas, Brent" To: "Soaring Digest" soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. =20 I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B.=20 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
If you are worried about keeping the wing clean, put in more dihedral and use rudder only. If you factor in bad designs and bad airfoils, there is definitely no one 'right' answer. Douglas, Brent wrote: Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
If I couple the flaps and ailerons I like to use them 100%. the Roll rate is increased and to be honest I can't feel the extra drag. This flies in the face of conventional wisdom but its what I like... one big flaperon... JayOn 8/21/06, Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are worried about keeping the wing clean, put in more dihedraland use rudder only.If you factor in bad designs and bad airfoils, there is definitely noone 'right' answer.Douglas, Brent wrote: Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer.I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring-request@airage.com.Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format .RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring-request@airage.com.Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?
Stan, I thought that everyone was using coupled A-F now a days. Dr. Drela has made it pretty clear that it lowers drag and you have a lot more authority on less total throw, whether it is a Supra or not. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?
I run coupled flapsat 60% and rudder at 75%for flight and alluncoupled for landing. -- KenYork County SoaringLighthorse Team YCSSilence is Golden On 8/18/06, Stan Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, how much? If not, when/why?ThanksStanRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring-request@airage.com.Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
All, I saved this post from Dr. Drela from October 2003; it's long but very good. Since he originally posted it to the exchange, I'm presuming a repost is OK. Barry Andersen From Dr. Drela: Deflected ailerons deform the load distribution away from the ideal near-elliptical shape, and hence increase induced drag. Partially slaving the flaps to the ailerons can alleviate this load distribution deformation, and thus mitigate the ailerons' CDi penalty. The question is what's the optimum amount of ail- flap mixing. The lowest-drag aileron system is wing-warping as used by the Wright Brothers -- the wing is linearly twisted from tip to tip. When such a twisted wing reaches its steady roll rate, the load distribution returns to its optimum level-flight shape, and the drag penalty is zero. With a finite number of hinged control surfaces such a linear twist cannot be achieved. But it can be approximated as close as possible if each surface's deflection is made proportional to its distance from the aircraft's centerline, measured at the surface midpoint. If the four control surfaces have equal span, we then have: surfacemid_span_loc. deflection ---- -- L.aile. -3/4 -100% L.flap-1/4-33% R.flap+1/4+33% R.aile. +3/4 +100% So for this wing the flap motion should be 33% of the aileron motion. Using AVL I've verified that this mixing ratio produces very nearly the smallest induced drag penalty. If the flap span differs from the aileron span, the table above can be adjusted accordingly. Longer flaps will have larger travel and vice versa. BTW, this distance-proportial deflection rule strongly argues against stopping the ailerons short of the tip. The resulting unhinged tip portion should in fact have the largest deflection. The distance-proportial deflection rule can be fudged if there is a tip stall problem in a sustained turn, where some opposite aileron must is held. By increasing flap travel over its optimum amount, the flaps can carry a greater share of the roll power, which reduces the required downward deflection of the inside aileron, and thus delays tip stall. So if your TD glider has insufficient tip stall margin, I suggest increasing the flap mixing and you should see some improvement. The extreme case would be 100% flap mixing, which mimics full-span flaperons. Flaperons give excellent tip stall resistance, as is obvious to anyone who flies a DLG with a good 2-servo wing. A 4-servo TD wing with decent planform should not need to go to this extreme, especially if it has some washout like the Aegea wing. On Aug 18, 2006, at 11:43 PM, Stan Myers wrote: If so, how much? If not, when/why? Thanks Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?
If so, how much? If not, when/why? Thanks Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra Servo Question - yes - it's a secret
In a message dated 8/11/06 8:27:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . I have again looked at using the 94761 for ailerons on my # 81 Supra (carbon) and the result is the same. the 94761 is still thicker than the aileron opening by about 2.5 mm. Guess I'll use the wing max again. Comments ? They work perfectly in my 'Ole #42. I put them in 9 months ago, so I cannot remember if any modification was required. I am sure it was slight if at all. I remember the servo tight against the spar. Don RichmondSan Diego, CA[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com
RE: [RCSE] Supra Servo Question - yes - it's a secret
I mounted 94761 servos on the ailerons of my Supra up against the spar with the lugs removed and glued them in. There might have been the slightest bulge in the cover, but you cannot see it now. On the flaps I used the same servos with the mounts that Skip Miller sells. Bruce Twining From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 7:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra Servo Question - yes - it's a secret In a message dated 8/11/06 8:27:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . I have again looked at using the 94761 for ailerons on my # 81 Supra (carbon) and the result is the same. the 94761 is still thicker than the aileron opening by about 2.5 mm. Guess I'll use the wing max again. Comments ? They work perfectly in my 'Ole #42. I put them in 9 months ago, so I cannot remember if any modification was required. I am sure it was slight if at all. I remember the servo tight against the spar. Don Richmond San Diego, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com
Re: [RCSE] Supra Servo Question - yes
Hey Don and Pat, my #16 Supra (standard construction) would not accept the 94761(12 mm) servos for the ailerons as they are too thick and protude below the outside of the skin at the rear of of the servo opening. I used Volz Wing Max (10 mm) for the ailerons. I have again looked at using the 94761 for ailerons on my # 81 Supra (carbon) and the result is the same. the 94761 is still thicker than the aileron opening by about 2.5 mm. Guess I'll use the wing max again. Comments ? Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/10/06 5:57:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can anyone tell me if the Airtronics 94761 Wing Servos will fit for the Ailerons on a Supra? I have them in mine. They fit nicely Don Richmond San Diego, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com ---BeginMessage--- In a message dated 8/10/06 5:57:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can anyone tell me if the Airtronics 94761 Wing Servos will fit for the Ailerons on a Supra? I have them in mine. They fit nicely Don RichmondSan Diego, CA[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com ---End Message---
[RCSE] Supra Servo Question
Hi Guys, Can anyone tell me if the Airtronics 94761 Wing Servos will fit for the Ailerons on a Supra? Thanks, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra Servo Question - yes
In a message dated 8/10/06 5:57:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can anyone tell me if the Airtronics 94761 Wing Servos will fit for the Ailerons on a Supra? I have them in mine. They fit nicely Don RichmondSan Diego, CA[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com
[RCSE] Supra 130/ Luckenback/Maize sailplane
i just finished one of these for a lucky customer, got pics and info here; http://www.git-r-built.com/newsmgr/templates/grbNews.asp?articleid=38zoneid=1 Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra ready to fly
Came in at 65.5 oz, took 3.5 oz of nose weight. Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra rx antenna, running it parallel down wing(Posssible dup request)
I'm putting together a Supra, somewhere,sometime,someone mentioned running the rx wire down the wing at the flap joint. am I dreaming. If not, details please. TIA Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra - Carbon or Glass
Should I get the Carbon or Glass version? I fly TD only, F3J is not in my plans. I launch fairly hard, but not to the extreme. How much stronger is the carbon wing? Which is heavier? Is it worth $300 for the carbon? TIA
[RCSE] Supra..is....
Just as super as everyone thought it might be. I have the heaviest Supra in the known world today and got to fly it in Cincy today against Pikes, Icons, Sharons, Evolutions, etc I chose to 'test' airplanes today as my focus. Took the Sharon, Giant and Supra to fly. OVSS allows the use of any amount of planes you want...very cool for tuning and testing. The conditions were huge, huge up and huge down...so if your model couldn't get out of its own way you were dead. I started with the Sharon for a maxx, then the Supra, then the Giant , etc, in continuous rotation...not by airfoil or span or any other consideration. I stayed in the second to top group til the second to last round where I moved up to top group but made a left on a hunch but couldn't stay with the air (sky as too blue and I kept loosing site) so dropped a bunch of time. The last flight was with the Supra, I ran down wind in real smeg, hit a boomer and was wrapping up and down like a nut... I gained to about 500' but was too far away for comfort and decided to come back. I was totally perplexed because I just couldn't get up and out in that thermal inspite of the fact it was huge..kept on stalling out on the come around part of the turn. So I headed back and it was not penetrating I pushed ina bunch of down trim and got here to come backI hit some more bubbles that should have been an easy up and away but the same thing...always stallingand coming back was still ugly. Finally when I got close enough to seeyep...right from the launch I had accidentally pulled my landing flap stick half way down Damn! So only got 9:57 and a 79out of 10 :-) This Supra is sooo nimble and so capable to get out of sink and over to something new, and does it ever indicate! On its first flight we shot gun launched and everyone flew right thru lift, almost right off the pingbut the Supra just popped its tail, littlerally yelling "Hey Dummy, TURN!". Gordy heaviest Carbon Supra on the planet PS, there was one other Carbon Supra on the field, and all lifting it to mine feel mine may be a third heavier. Eat your hearts out.
Re: [RCSE] Supra..is....
Who won? and what were they flying? Wish I was there. Not able to make tomorrow either. : ( Denny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just as super as everyone thought it might be. I have the heaviest Supra in the known world today and got to fly it in Cincy today against Pikes, Icons, Sharons, Evolutions, etc I chose to 'test' airplanes today as my focus. Took the Sharon, Giant and Supra to fly. OVSS allows the use of any amount of planes you want...very cool for tuning and testing. The conditions were huge, huge up and huge down...so if your model couldn't get out of its own way you were dead. I started with the Sharon for a maxx, then the Supra, then the Giant , etc, in continuous rotation...not by airfoil or span or any other consideration. I stayed in the second to top group til the second to last round where I moved up to top group but made a left on a hunch but couldn't stay with the air (sky as too blue and I kept loosing site) so dropped a bunch of time. The last flight was with the Supra, I ran down wind in real smeg, hit a boomer and was wrapping up and down like a nut... I gained to about 500' but was too far away for comfort and decided to come back. I was totally perplexed because I just couldn't get up and out in that thermal inspite of the fact it was huge..kept on stalling out on the come around part of the turn. So I headed back and it was not penetrating I pushed in a bunch of down trim and got here to come backI hit some more bubbles that should have been an easy up and away but the same thing...always stallingand coming back was still ugly. Finally when I got close enough to seeyep...right from the launch I had accidentally pulled my landing flap stick half way down Damn! So only got 9:57 and a 79out of 10 :-) This Supra is sooo nimble and so capable to get out of sink and over to something new, and does it ever indicate! On its first flight we shot gun launched and everyone flew right thru lift, almost right off the pingbut the Supra just popped its tail, littlerally yelling Hey Dummy, TURN!. Gordy heaviest Carbon Supra on the planet PS, there was one other Carbon Supra on the field, and all lifting it to mine feel mine may be a third heavier. Eat your hearts out. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra..is.... Who Won
Phil flew a Sharon to lead all day long. He flew about 5 levels higher thanhe should be capable of at this stage but HE flew awesome. He got caught in the end in some major smeg to move him wa down into crushed hell. Steve Siebenaler flew a Vtail Pike, and always chose his own air. He clawed his way up to second. Marc Gellart is gonna be THE dog to beat this season, and trust me, whoever does it will have flown. Marc is flying DP's old Insanity and he has really bonded with it...it matches his style to a T. The real star for the day was Barry Anderson, and while he'll admit that he had a little help from his friends (Jim McCarthy and myself as timer callers) HE did the flying and deserved this win by staying the course and really being there to the end. Jim and I were extremely proud to be part of today with him both Barry and Steve work their butts off, and inspite of all the hassles with a certain infamous pilot who they claim causes their grey hairs, are there for us each year, running easily the best competitive man on man, seeded contests in the country...maybe world from my experience. Cincy may be a 'club contest' but the level of flying from every pilot is raised wayyy up...and most important, even the guys who end up in the bottom flight groups leave with a smile on their faces. Barry flew his trusty and learned Icon. I think I counted at least 4 Icons present and doing well. There were two AVA's flying, and in at least two rounds crushed everyone from what I saw. Crazy how versatile those AVA's are as far as flying in various wind conditions. The final group had all up airso it came down to who would end up on the second and on the mark. Barry had a small point lead and I told him it was his to lose (after reminding him that circling in sink was usually a bad idea :-) He got enough to hold off the competition...and did it while CDing and being launch master most of the day! Tomorrow should be interesting...weather change...as in major! 69 for a high, 15mph to 25mph with morning showers.get out the ballast boys! Gordy
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours?
#31 is 61 even ready to fly. Maurice - Original Message - From: Stan Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring Digest soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:32 PM Subject: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours? And how much weight did you have to put in to balance? Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/340 - Release Date: 5/15/2006 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours?
This proves several things. Any or all of the following could apply. First is Gordy's rule of weights: Everyone else's plane weighs less than yours no matter how light yours is. If you build a Supra RTF at 40 ounces, somebody will have a lighter one! Then: Stan is a lousy builder. Next: Maurice is a great builder. Next: Maurice used lighter equipment than Stan. Next: Maurice has the CG at the back of the wing ala DP. Next: Stan has the CG at the front of the wing. Next: Stan's scale weighs heavy. Next: Maurice's scale weighs light. Next: Stan's plane has more carbon, paint or epoxy in it so it's slightly heavier. Next: I've heard 61-65 ounces depending on servo choice. Let's face it; if you use sub micros at 6 grams or you use micro digitals at nearly an ounce a piece, you'll end up with different weights. Next: 99% of us couldn't tell the difference between the way a 61 ounce plane and a 65 ounce plane flies. 4 ounces out of 60 is only .07%. That's nothing for the majority of us. Most of us can't tell the difference in how a plane flies unless we change the loading by 2 ounces per square foot, which equates to about 20 ounces. On a light plane like an AVA, we might notice a difference in the way the plane flies at 1 ounce per square foot increased loading, or an additional 10 ounces. Next: None of this really matters at 1000' and 20 minutes! Just my humble opinion of course. Personally, I think you've done fine Stan! gv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #31 is 61 even ready to fly. Maurice And how much weight did you have to put in to balance? Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours?
Maurice has the CG at the back of the wing ala DP. Actually George I have the CG set just in front of the horizontal stab :-) Maurice - Original Message - From: George Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Stan Myers' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours? This proves several things. Any or all of the following could apply. First is Gordy's rule of weights: Everyone else's plane weighs less than yours no matter how light yours is. If you build a Supra RTF at 40 ounces, somebody will have a lighter one! Then: Stan is a lousy builder. Next: Maurice is a great builder. Next: Maurice used lighter equipment than Stan. Next: Maurice has the CG at the back of the wing ala DP. Next: Stan has the CG at the front of the wing. Next: Stan's scale weighs heavy. Next: Maurice's scale weighs light. Next: Stan's plane has more carbon, paint or epoxy in it so it's slightly heavier. Next: I've heard 61-65 ounces depending on servo choice. Let's face it; if you use sub micros at 6 grams or you use micro digitals at nearly an ounce a piece, you'll end up with different weights. Next: 99% of us couldn't tell the difference between the way a 61 ounce plane and a 65 ounce plane flies. 4 ounces out of 60 is only .07%. That's nothing for the majority of us. Most of us can't tell the difference in how a plane flies unless we change the loading by 2 ounces per square foot, which equates to about 20 ounces. On a light plane like an AVA, we might notice a difference in the way the plane flies at 1 ounce per square foot increased loading, or an additional 10 ounces. Next: None of this really matters at 1000' and 20 minutes! Just my humble opinion of course. Personally, I think you've done fine Stan! gv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #31 is 61 even ready to fly. Maurice And how much weight did you have to put in to balance? Stan -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 5/19/2006 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this com...
In a message dated 5/18/2006 11:32:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And how much weight did you have to put in to balance?Stan Irrelevant, How does it fly? Don RichmondSan Diego, CA (Ozona, TXtoday)[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com
[RCSE] Supra ? Mine weighs 61.75 oz prior to balance. How does this compare with yours?
And how much weight did you have to put in to balance? Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra wiring harness/ballast tube ?
hi, what are you guys doing with the Molex connector on the Hoopes harnness when you plug the wing in, when using a ballast tube ? are you folding the wires over and laying the plug in the fuse, or opening up the hole in the wing and tuck the plug up in there ?? Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra wiring harness/ballast tube ?
Dave, For someone who claims to be able to fly F3B without team help, I'm sure you should be able to solve this minor irritation without outside help as well. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] hi, what are you guys doing with the Molex connector on the Hoopes harnness when you plug the wing in, when using a ballast tube ? are you folding the wires over and laying the plug in the fuse, or opening up the hole in the wing and tuck the plug up in there ?? Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra wiring harness/ballast tube ?
Mr. Corven, I certainly hope that comment was made in jest, because if not it is very much out of line. Dave Hauch is always willing to share the neat little tricks he has come up with through the multiple builds he has been doing lately. Also, he never really said he could fly competitive F3B without a Team, he just said it did not require a team to practice it. Not everybody is blessed with having multiple flying buddies interested in F3B to be able to form a team to practice with, so for Dave to have figured out a way to get out and practice the tasks on his own should be commended not ridiculed. With attitudes like yours, I wonder why more people aren't rushing to join the fun. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS Ps, Dave H., check with either Jim Porter or my brother, they can probably help you with your harness question. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; RCSE soaring@airage.com Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra wiring harness/ballast tube ? Dave, For someone who claims to be able to fly F3B without team help, I'm sure you should be able to solve this minor irritation without outside help as well. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] hi, what are you guys doing with the Molex connector on the Hoopes harnness when you plug the wing in, when using a ballast tube ? are you folding the wires over and laying the plug in the fuse, or opening up the hole in the wing and tuck the plug up in there ?? Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra Booms, BubbleDancer Booms and DLG Booms
GuysI am happy to announce that the first shipment of Supra booms is now in stock at Polecat Aero. Construction is per Dr. Drela's instructions of prepreg carbon and bias glass. Weight is 58 grams. 36" long, ID is .760 big end, .415 small end and solid as a rock.A bunch of you have e-mailed over the past few months asking about these and there was a list of interested folks. A computer crash a couple of weeks ago wiped out the list and sales will be on a first come, first served basis. I apologize for that but it has been an "interesting" few months to say the least. They are $37 each and shipping is $8 for one or a few.BubbleDancer booms are also in good supply at $32 each. Same specs but weight 38 grams. They are $32 each.DLG booms are now in very good supply at $25 each.The first shipment of Supras will sell out very quickly but the supplier promises a shipment bi-weekly.Thanks for looking Denny Maizewww.polecataero.com 717-789-0146
[RCSE] Supra #16.
Well gang, finally after a long winter here in Michigan The Supra #16 flew today and fly it did. At 65 oz it launches as if it were on rails, zooms without hesitation, excellent speed range and lands where you want it to land with out complaint. The air today was gusty and bumpy but #16 flew as though it were smooth and calm. Barry, this is the a great sailplane that you, Dr Drela and Vladimir have put together and I can hardly wait to get some more time on it as the weather improves here in Michigan. For those of you who don't have one yet don't wait to order as the list is bound to get longer. As Gordy would say, wait and wail. Regards, Dave Corven. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra 4 sale
Brand spankin new Supra, blaster blue bottoms, white tops blue rudder battery you must assemble $1250.00 usd +shipping like to deliver in so cal thanks Mark RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra possible repair
If really needed, I think it's possible to add a plywood plate with a second threaded nut or insert to the inside of the fuselage below the pylon for the front wing bolt. It would need to match the inside curve of the fuselage to minimize load distortion of the fuselage. Depending on the thickness of the plywood plate it might also need to have some relief to clear the ballast tube, although it appears that there is at least 1/4 between the top of the fuselage and the ballast tube. It should be possible to locate the plate by using a LONG fully threaded bolt that passes through the existing threads and picks up the threads in the added plate. Either epoxy or medium CA should be sufficient to hold the plate in place as all loads on the plate should be in tension. I plan on flying my Supra as it's originally built, but I will keep a close watch on the integrity/rigidity of the front threaded insert. This may be especially critical after ANY landing that torques the pylon, perhaps breaking the bond between the spooge retaining the threaded insert and the insides of the pylon. regards, Jim Porter Johnston Iowa USA The airplane stays up because it doesn't have the time to fall. Orville Wright RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra possible repair
To add to what Jim said the plate doesn't need to exactly match the curve, wax the bolt, polish it, wax it again polish it or use pva and splooge a mixture of epoxy and microballoons between the plate and fuse. For the stress here a little more epoxy than a normal light splooge... you want strength not necessarily light weight. That will take up any deficiencies in the plate, and relieve the fuse distortions.. Jim Porter wrote: If really needed, I think it's possible to add a plywood plate with a second threaded nut or insert to the inside of the fuselage below the pylon for the front wing bolt. It would need to match the inside curve of the fuselage to minimize load distortion of the fuselage. Depending on the thickness of the plywood plate it might also need to have some relief to clear the ballast tube, although it appears that there is at least 1/4 between the top of the fuselage and the ballast tube. It should be possible to locate the plate by using a LONG fully threaded bolt that passes through the existing threads and picks up the threads in the added plate. Either epoxy or medium CA should be sufficient to hold the plate in place as all loads on the plate should be in tension. I plan on flying my Supra as it's originally built, but I will keep a close watch on the integrity/rigidity of the front threaded insert. This may be especially critical after ANY landing that torques the pylon, perhaps breaking the bond between the spooge retaining the threaded insert and the insides of the pylon. regards, Jim Porter Johnston Iowa USA The airplane stays up because it doesn't have the time to fall. Orville Wright RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
It looks to me like the bolt anchor mounts extend down into the pylon, but nowhere near as far as they could. A sound fix would be to switch to longer bolts which go all the way through the existing anchors, and into epoxy/glass-flox threads potted in between the pylon walls. This may require tapping through the bolt anchords, dunno. If the bolt extends down below the point where the pylon flares out at the bottom, then the bolt will be mechanically trapped, so you're not relying on the epoxy's peel strength. Potting longer bolts should be straightforward even if the platform plate is still intact. Just use a syringe to inject epoxy/flox splooge through the bolt holes. Or maybe through the pylong access hole? Then screw in the well-waxed bolts. BTW, the best way to prepare the CF surface for bonding is to wet sand it with wet epoxy. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Don, Another thought for #42. If you are willing to give up the ballast tube then fab a wood crutch that attaches to the fuse bottom. Replace the adjustable tow hook with a screw in hook and install t-nuts into the wood crutch at the wing bolt locations for wing attachments. This will require considerable carving inside of the pod but could be a very secure way to attach the wing. Two screws thru the fuse bottom and the WELD epoxy should do the trick. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com ---BeginMessage--- Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don RichmondSan Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today)[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com ---End Message---
[RCSE] Supra #42
Don, By the pictures and from what I have seem of mine. It looks like the bag the fuseor have a ballon inside to keep the carbon tight in the molds. This usually leave a shiney finish after removal. >From the pictures, it just looks like a poor bond. Even where the nut is down in the pylon, it has come loose looking again like a bad glue joint. I think Larry Jollys fix will also take care of it with no problem. Don, If you do not think the plane will hold up,,,Put it in a box and send it to me, I would take another :-) We have to rememberThere are quite a few flying now and how many failures like this? Mike Fox
RE: [RCSE] Supra #42
Exactly. When I spoke with Barry about this, he was adamant that the pylon wing mount was correctly designed. The plane has been extensively tested, even with 2-man tows. That said, I am sorry that Don is having this problem. I am not giving up my place in line. ;-) --Jim Laurel From: Mike Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:04 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 Don, By the pictures and from what I have seem of mine. It looks like the bag the fuseor have a ballon inside to keep the carbon tight in the molds. This usually leave a shiney finish after removal. From the pictures, it just looks like a poor bond. Even where the nut is down in the pylon, it has come loose looking again like a bad glue joint. I think Larry Jollys fix will also take care of it with no problem. Don, If you do not think the plane will hold up,,,Put it in a box and send it to me, I would take another :-) We have to rememberThere are quite a few flying now and how many failures like this? Mike Fox
Re: RE: [RCSE] Supra #42
If this is an isolated problem then it appears to me that Vladmir should step up with a replacement fuse for Don. It's really tough to tell a whole lot from pictures, but it does not look like this one was very well bonded and could have just been a fluke. See Ya, Pat McCleve Wichita, KS From: Jim Laurel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/03/28 Tue PM 02:45:17 EST To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra #42 Exactly. When I spoke with Barry about this, he was adamant that the pylon wing mount was correctly designed. The plane has been extensively tested, even with 2-man tows. That said, I am sorry that Don is having this problem. I am not giving up my place in line. ;-) --Jim Laurel _ From: Mike Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:04 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 Don, By the pictures and from what I have seem of mine. It looks like the bag the fuse or have a ballon inside to keep the carbon tight in the molds. This usually leave a shiney finish after removal. From the pictures, it just looks like a poor bond. Even where the nut is down in the pylon, it has come loose looking again like a bad glue joint. I think Larry Jollys fix will also take care of it with no problem. Don, If you do not think the plane will hold up,,,Put it in a box and send it to me, I would take another :-) We have to rememberThere are quite a few flying now and how many failures like this? Mike Fox RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra #42
If this is an isolated problem then it appears to me that Vladmir should step up with a replacement fuse for Don. It's really tough to tell a whole lot from pictures, but it does not look like this one was very well bonded and could have just been a fluke. Hi guys! I've passed your feelings along to Vladimir, pretty sure he was wondering what you thought he should do (you know the right thing), but I'm not sure that 'step up' translates into Ukraine. I have his address in case you are forming up a lynch mob. :-)Funny Vlad went from a hero to a bum in less than 24 hours and he don't even know it :-) Last I read, Don Richmond asked for ideas on how to fix his fuse, not suggestions about what to tell Vladimirbut now he has some thoughts on that idea too:-) Here's Vladimir's address if you have some suggestions or ideas on how to change the fuse, the mold the layup or the resin, likely he would be happy to hear them. :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell him I sent you :-) In the mean time what you are flying this season ? GordyGiant, Superior, Sharon, and yep carbon Supras :-) oops sounds pretty Perfect too :-)
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42
Gordy, Are you trying to set something up so guys will bail off the waiting list for the Supra, and you will then get yours sooner? What a schemer! By the way Arend told me he thought my Supra was "Nose Heavy"., Browning almost keeled over , he has flown it too!Best Regards Larry-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: soaring@airage.comSent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:06:17 ESTSubject: [RCSE] Supra #42 If this is an isolated problem then it appears to me that Vladmir should step up with a replacement fuse for Don. It's really tough to tell a whole lot from pictures, but it does not look like this one was very well bonded and could have just been a fluke. Hi guys! I've passed your feelings along to Vladimir, pretty sure he was wondering what you thought he should do (you know the right thing), but I'm not sure that 'step up' translates into Ukraine. I have his address in case you are forming up a lynch mob. :-)Funny Vlad went from a hero to a bum in less than 24 hours and he don't even know it :-) Last I read, Don Richmond asked for ideas on how to fix his fuse, not suggestions about what to tell Vladimirbut now he has some thoughts on that idea too:-) Here's Vladimir's address if you have some suggestions or ideas on how to change the fuse, the mold the layup or the resin, likely he would be happy to hear them. :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell him I sent you :-) In the mean time what you are flying this season ? GordyGiant, Superior, Sharon, and yep carbon Supras :-) oops sounds pretty Perfect too :-)
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42.596172
Larry, So it's nose heavy : ) What's your CG at? I've heard a lot of different ones from 92 to 108. I'measing my way back and am at 98. Haven't noticed a lot of flying difference in the 94 - 98 range (Did move the tow hook back a tiny bit). It's hard to tell the best set up for landing yet. Tom Anyone with it way back? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@airage.com Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 Gordy, Are you trying to set something up so guys will bail off the waiting list for the Supra, and you will then get yours sooner? What a schemer! By the way Arend told me he thought my Supra was "Nose Heavy"., Browning almost keeled over , he has flown it too!Best Regards Larry-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: soaring@airage.comSent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:06:17 ESTSubject: [RCSE] Supra #42 If this is an isolated problem then it appears to me that Vladmir should step up with a replacement fuse for Don. It's really tough to tell a whole lot from pictures, but it does not look like this one was very well bonded and could have just been a fluke. Hi guys! I've passed your feelings along to Vladimir, pretty sure he was wondering what you thought he should do (you know the right thing), but I'm not sure that 'step up' translates into Ukraine. I have his address in case you are forming up a lynch mob. :-)Funny Vlad went from a hero to a bum in less than 24 hours and he don't even know it :-) Last I read, Don Richmond asked for ideas on how to fix his fuse, not suggestions about what to tell Vladimirbut now he has some thoughts on that idea too:-) Here's Vladimir's address if you have some suggestions or ideas on how to change the fuse, the mold the layup or the resin, likely he would be happy to hear them. :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell him I sent you :-) In the mean time what you are flying this season ? GordyGiant, Superior, Sharon, and yep carbon Supras :-) oops sounds pretty Perfect too :-)
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42
With all the hoopla about the SUPRA ? saveyourselfall thepain and problemsand buy a SHARON... Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
[RCSE] Supra repair posted for Mark Drela
This suggestion was given by Mark Drela Here's one possible fix, or just a preventive modification:1) Get some longer bolts which extend down as far as possiblewithout interfering with the ballast tube or servo wires.2) Do whatever is needed to get the bolts extend pastthe current bolt anchors, and farther down into the pylon.This may require drilling through the bolt anchors with a tap drill for that bolt size (i.e. don't touch the existing threads), and then chasing down with the appropriate tap.3) Pot the longer bolts into the pylon with a mixture of epoxyand milled glass. The mixture can by injected through theexisting holes, and/or maybe through the pylon access hole.The bolts should be well waxed obviously. Polishing them also helps to get a clean release.4) Potted threads tend to be tight after potting,so maybe chase them with a bottoming tap for a looser fit.Ideally, the potting epoxy is down where the pylon wallsflare out to meet the fuse. That way it's mechanically trapped in place, and doesn't rely on the bond peel strength.
[RCSE] Supra possible repair
Why not drill the main wing bolt hole all the way down through to the bottom of the pod and restore Mark's original design intent? If a ballast is used, it could be drilled to allow the bolt to pass through, and in the process the bolt would lock the ballast in place. THOSE THAT WOULD SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY, DESERVE NEITHER --BENJAMIN FRANKLIN RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don RichmondSan Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today)[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
I can't believe that the only thing holding the wing bolts on is that thin cf cap. Very poor engineering. The trick now is how to do something to the ones that haven't popped off yet. I really don't want to cut mine off, but it is probably better than loosing a wing -- or whole plane. My suggestion for you, since it's already off, is to glue a thick blocks across the pod and insert a threaded rod for the screws. You can probably just cut out the existing ones, or even glue the existing blocks into the new blocks Then just use the cap to cover everything, but not as support for the wing. Other option is to glue 1/4 plywood down flush in the pod. and put the threaded rods in it. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Thats all holding your wings on Guys, Zenith carbons in stock call NOW! Tom Copp Composite Specialties www.f3x.com 949-645-7032 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:51 PM To: soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com
[RCSE] Supra #42 problem, FIX :-)
I can't believe that the only thing holding the wing bolts on is that thin cf cap. Very poor engineering. The trick now is how to do something to the ones that haven't popped off yet. I really don't want to cut mine off, but it is probably better than loosing a wing -- or whole plane. I have been following Don's thread, since just after his #42 had been crashed a few times at AZ, so I have decided to modify my Supra's fuse so that that the wing bolt nuts and fuse 'cap' won't give out on mine after crashing a few times. the answer is Bondo...well bondo and cloth. I figure if I wrap enough cloth around that super light pod construction, (picture one of the three stooges with a toothache head wrap to get a better idea of my fix). The glop her up with Bondo, likely it will never crack or anything of the like after its been nosed in hard from a power line drop. Don if you want I can send more detail on the fix :-) Looks like its time for a new pod, since no glue is going to hold under the incredible twisting and flexing the pylon gets during launches and landings. Gordy
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Am I seeing that right? The wing hold down nuts are simply attached to the bottom of that top cap that pulled off? No bulkhead or anything inside the pylon/fuse to hold the wing mount nuts in place?? If soI wouldnt put it back together the same way. Id say do a bulkhead type arrangement likeMD does in the Supras. If you have the holdown bolt going thru the bottom ofathick round bukhead, to which the nut is attached at the bottom of, it wont be able to pull up thru the pylon, unless of course the pylon rips off! Bring out the full on two man tows guys!! Walter - Original Message - From: Tom Copp To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem Thats all holding your wings on Guys, Zenith carbons in stock call NOW! Tom Copp Composite Specialties www.f3x.com 949-645-7032 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:51 PMTo: soaring@airage.comCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don RichmondSan Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today)[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem, FIX :-)
Thats a poor fix Gordy. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem, FIX :-) I can't believe that the only thing holding the wing bolts on is that thin cf cap. Very poor engineering. The trick now is how to do something to the ones that haven't popped off yet. I really don't want to cut mine off, but it is probably better than loosing a wing -- or whole plane. I have been following Don's thread, since just after his #42 had been crashed a few times at AZ, so I have decided to modify my Supra's fuse so that that the wing bolt nuts and fuse 'cap' won't give out on mine after crashing a few times. the answer is Bondo...well bondo and cloth. I figure if I wrap enough cloth around that super light pod construction, (picture one of the three stooges with a toothache head wrap to get a better idea of my fix). The glop her up with Bondo, likely it will never crack or anything of the like after its been nosed in hard from a power line drop. Don if you want I can send more detail on the fix :-) Looks like its time for a new pod, since no glue is going to hold under the incredible twisting and flexing the pylon gets during launches and landings. Gordy
RE: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
So you've got some in stock after replacing the one that had a jiggawatt of power run through it's wing at the SWC -l :-) :-) :-) -Original Message- From: Tom Copp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem That's all holding your wings on Guys, Zenith carbons in stock call NOW! Tom Copp Composite Specialties www.f3x.com 949-645-7032 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Don, It's hard to tell what you have to work with for repairs even though your pics are pretty good. For adhesive I would say WELD epoxy is the stuff you want to use here and I would install a pair of new T-nuts between two layers of .050 carbon sheet under the original saddle cap. Also a piece of 1/16 ply sheet above the t-nut heads between the carbon layers. Put this sandwich together and install on the pylon wet taking care to get straight and level. The WELD epoxy has a fairly long working time so all this is possible. At this point I wouldn't worry much about added weight for this size bird, but I would also order a new set of fuse parts for down the road. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com ---BeginMessage--- Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don RichmondSan Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today)[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.hilaunch.com ---End Message---
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem, FIX :-) - ???
In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:45:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thats a poor fix Gordy Is there a good fix for Gordy?? Don Richmond
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Mark's original Supra pod and hold-down design can be found in this PDF: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/supra/all%20PDFs/supra_fuse.pdf The fore bolt goes down into a 1/2 ply bulkhead, and the aft bolt appears to be in the pylon itself. Though, immediately upon reading this, I thought of the way the wing bolts onto an XP-4 DLG, since it's pod is very Supra-esque. Take a look here: http://www.polecataero.com/v/xp4/200601-djensenxp45/200601-djensenxp45+17-wingbolt3.JPG.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com http://www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Before this whole thread gets out of control, we should all remember that #42 was CRASHED at Phoenix. From what I heard, it went into some power lines, then crashed from around 75ft. Apparently, the repair wasn't adequate. Just because the Supra wing mount didn't survive a crash, doesn't mean it is not correctly designed to withstand the normal stresses of hard launches and contest landings. My Supra will be here in a few days, and I will have no qualms about flying it hard! Cheers - Jim Laurel Seattle Area Soaring Society RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem - the real story
In a message dated 3/27/2006 5:49:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Before this whole thread gets out of control, we should all remember that #42 was CRASHED at Phoenix. From what I heard, it went into some power lines, then crashed from around 75ft. Apparently, the repair wasn't adequate. While it is true that the Supra encountered the wires, it is not true that it crashed from 75 ft. It was rejected by the wires and flown to the ground without any damage. The problem with the rear hold down bolt was discovered three flights later following a "dork" landing. This was repaired with a generous amount of epoxy applied to the separated area. The latest failure occurred approximately 50 flights later during another firm landing. How it held together for the preceding launch is just good luck. In my opinion, if you only launch hard, but land gently, you will not have a problem. Unfortunately, this is not my style. Occasionally I spear the landing. Don Richmond
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem - the real story
I saw Don hit the wires and it did not hit the ground that hard. For those who are wondering why Don's plane was not a smoldering pile of rubble, the power had been knocked out earlier by a plane that became the above mentioned pile of smoldering rubble. I'm curious if there have been other unreported failures. I'm sure that Don's flying style is not atypical of the common TD pilot. If so, there are probably other failures out there. From the pictures, this certainly doesn't look like the best possible mounting system. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ While it is true that the Supra encountered the wires, it is not true that it crashed from 75 ft. It was rejected by the wires and flown to the ground without any damage.
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
From Dons pics all I can say is break out the checkbook! - Original Message - From: Jim Laurel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: rcse Yahoo soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem Before this whole thread gets out of control, we should all remember that #42 was CRASHED at Phoenix. From what I heard, it went into some power lines, then crashed from around 75ft. Apparently, the repair wasn't adequate. Just because the Supra wing mount didn't survive a crash, doesn't mean it is not correctly designed to withstand the normal stresses of hard launches and contest landings. My Supra will be here in a few days, and I will have no qualms about flying it hard! Cheers - Jim Laurel Seattle Area Soaring Society RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Dear #1 through #99, I was within 20 feet of the crash - remember I was out there hunting for a dropped pocketknife. The plane tapping the wires and landing in the tilled dust that is desert farm land was softer than any competition landings I have seen. I would recommend that the saddle area be beefed up before y'all go flying again. Paul www.casl.net PS Fusions Rule! On 3/27/06, Jim Laurel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before this whole thread gets out of control, we should all remember that #42 was CRASHED at Phoenix. From what I heard, it went into some power lines, then crashed from around 75ft. Apparently, the repair wasn't adequate. Just because the Supra wing mount didn't survive a crash, doesn't mean it is not correctly designed to withstand the normal stresses of hard launches and contest landings. My Supra will be here in a few days, and I will have no qualms about flying it hard! Cheers - Jim Laurel Seattle Area Soaring Society RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
Don, Clean up the curedepoxy around the edges with some 80 grit. Make sure you get everything shiny keyed and scuffed. Remove the wire harness. Procure some small carbon fiber sock material 1/4" diameter should be good. Cut a length that will fit the perimeter of the wing hold down about a 1/4 "from the edge. Make up some slow cure epoxy and some fairly thick slurry with cotton flocking. Wet the tube out on plastic and lay it in place on the pod side of the wing mount. Using the tube as a dam apply a seam of flocking around the edge of the mount. Use some of the epoxy to wet the top cap where it will touch the flocking and the tube. If there is any place that the bolt hold downs can touch the pod sides apply a coat of cotton flocking slurry. Push the top plate into posiiton and if it goes down all the way tape the edge with packing tape. If it will not go down rearrange the sock by pushing it towards the center of the mount. Now turn the fuselage upside down and clean the excess epoxy off the exterior of the fuse pod. Keep the fuselage upside down over night. That should do the trick. Best Regards Larry
Re: [RCSE] Supra #42 problem
The problem here is that any sort of repair will never have the integral strength of the original lay-up. Essentially any adhesive employed will only be attaching itself to already-cured laminate/matrix. The most appropriate adhesive would be the original epoxy-type, but I would liek to drive the point home that you will never achieve a homgenous bond (single cured phase) given the already cured materials present. This will be a problem. Given what I see in those pics, you are going to have to somehow attach the wing mounting system such that the loads are transfered directly to the rest of the lower fuselage. If you do somehow determine what epoxy was employed, and can figure out a reliable means of mechanically re-attaching the wing hold-down system, and you actauly(!) decide to use that fuse again...consider autoclaving (hotbox) the entire repair at ~120-130F for a few hours, then allow to cool slowly. However check first to see whether the design is already heat-cured - if so then this elevated cure process will not be effective. This will cause the existing cured matrix and the now-new matrix to be elevated past their room temp glass transition point. The result will be at least a partial bonding of the old and new. I suggest that lateral loads from catching wingtips is going to create concern with this pod/boom system. I wish you luck with the repair attempt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Supra Enthusiasts, Check out the latest failure mode shown on my web site (www.hilaunch.com http://www.hilaunch.com) under photos. The beginning of the problem showed at Phoenix when the rear of the CF cap that holds the wing attachment nuts came loose. I applied a generous amount of epoxy, but that repair did not solve the problem. On a landing yesterday, the entire wing with the hold down bolts popped from the fuse. Fortunately the landing had been completed and there was no additional damage. If you have a good idea about how to repair this problem, send me an email. Don Richmond San Diego, CA (Pensacola, FL today) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hilaunch.com -- Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
