Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Frederik Ramm wrote: The more complex thing is that some jurisdictions make it really difficult for you to give away your rights so generously. Which is a splendid reason to use WTFPL, reproduced here in its entirety: DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION 0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO. From its FAQ (http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/): Isn’t this license basically public domain? There is no such thing as putting a work in the public domain, you America-centered, Commonwealth-biased individual. Public domain varies with the jurisdictions, and it is in some places debatable whether someone who has not been dead for the last seventy years is entitled to put his own work in the public domain. cheers Richard who has not quite been dead for 70 years ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, 80n wrote: Perhaps PD is not as simple as it seems at first sight. The thing that is simple about PD is what contributors want - they simply want to make the data available to anyone, forever, without restrictions of any kind, full stop. But that's not what Sunburned Surveyor actually said. He specifically said that he wasn't a proponent of PD until... So in this case he's not really a PD advocate, but just found the share alike licensing too difficult and wanted an easy life. I was just pointing out that PD is not necessarily an easy life. IPR and licensing is a complex business. Whatever we do it will not be easy. 80n You will not find a single use case where one PD advocate says I want this to be possible and another says nay, this should not be allowed and the third says ok we can allow this but only if the licensee dons a funny hat and runs in circles for half an hour. We're all 100% on the same side and there is absolutely no discussion about where to draw the line between allowed and not allowed. The more complex thing is that some jurisdictions make it really difficult for you to give away your rights so generously. So the guy who told you use my data as you see fit might actually be from a country where him saying so doesn't exactly mean what he says! But this is really legislation gone mad, and should not be held against the idea of PD. The idea of giving away something freely, with no strings attached, *is* a very simple idea that can easily be understood by anyone. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Sorry, I've been busy writing up research proposals and whatnot. I'm starting a phd next year (woohoo!). I don't like the standard creative commons PD license. Their CC-zero license is ok, but not finished. Here's the wikipedia license from earlier in the thread: I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law. Here's the ODC Public Domain Dedication: http://www.opendatacommons.org/odc-public-domain-dedication-and-licence/ It is about 5 pages long. I am happy with either. We probably should just pick one. Unlike normal OSM, there is nothing viral about either license. It doesn't matter if some data has been dedicated using one PD license and some using another. If we find problems, we can probably just change licenses for future data while keeping all the old stuff. (The TIGER data and whatnot will probably be under a different license from everything else anyway. So will OSM data by users marked with PD. There's nothing wrong with that). I really like small simple licenses. They are easy for the rest of us to understand. However, I can certainly see the advantages to a big license like the ODC PD license. It is much more explicit about things like patents, databases, facts, etc. It explicitly mentions that code written to render the maps is not necessarily covered under the same license. I don't really foresee problems using a simple license, but a big license which is explicit about everything is probably better. However, I'm a bit nervous about the ODC PD license abandoning the publisher's moral rights. That means I can legally come along and say that I drew all the maps myself; or I could draw offensive pictures out of your roads and say that was you. I don't mind if people don't attribute me - but thats different from pretending you were the author. Jordan: Why is this in there? Can we take it out? My vote is for ODC-PD if the moral rights waiver is removed and the wikipedia pd license otherwise. -J On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Sunburned Surveyor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for doing that initial work Kari. I've been home with the flu, so I've been a little out of the loop. I think we could make decisions based on an informal vote of the OSM contributors interested in PD. As things get more serious we can use a more formal governance structure, if one is needed. I'll see if I can make more time to comment tomorrow, if I'm feeling better. I'd like to know what Jospeh thinks as well. Thanks again. Landon On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kari Pihkala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created a wiki page for the public domain map, have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Public_Domain_Map . There is also a link from the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Open_Data_License to the new page. I listed all public domain licenses - we need to decide which one to use. How to make decisions? Voting? Also, there is a todo list. I'm not sure if it lists all the required actions, please correct it if it is wrong. - Kari On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Peter Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does OSM Foundation think about the PD repository? Would it make sense to host both licences under the name OpenStreetMap or would it be confusing? How much OSMF wants to be part of the PD version? After all I think most of the decisions will be the same for both (e.g. deciding about tags, road types, changes in software...) To be clear, the OSMF is there to support the project and it is the OSM contributors (and the OSMF members) who should guide the direction that the project goes in. If the community says 'pd' then this is the way I am sure the foundation would support it going. In the absence of a strong vote for pd their attitude is to sort out the share-alike licence. Btw, I don't really see how the project would work if one contributor in an area was doing PD and the other was not. There would need to be dual work to produce a good pd version of the area which would be weird and hard to explain to say the least. Anyway, I do think it would be useful to set up a pd-talk list to capture all this and to ensure that it doesn't overwhelm the legal-talk list which I suggest should be more focused on current legal concerns. If there is not a pd-project wiki page then I suggest you set one of those up and link to it from the ODBL page. Thanks, Peter ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Hi, Joseph Gentle wrote: However, I'm a bit nervous about the ODC PD license abandoning the publisher's moral rights. That means I can legally come along and say that I drew all the maps myself; or I could draw offensive pictures out of your roads and say that was you. I don't mind if people don't attribute me - but thats different from pretending you were the author. Jordan: Why is this in there? Can we take it out? Ok, I take back what I previously said to 80n about all PD advocates being on the same page ;-) Joseph, with PD you don't get to dictate how the data is used. You waive all rights, including the right to be identified as the author. If someone takes the whole TIGER dataset and says he drew it up himself, I don't think there is anything to stop him - just that he makes a complete fool of himself because nobody will believe him. Same with your contributions to a PD database. EITHER your contribution is marginal so that someone can realistically claim he did it all by himself, in which case nobody can prove him otherwise - and even if your license did contain a bit about not allowing him to lie about the provenance of the data, he could still do it and not be found out. OR your contribution is substantial so that anyone can see that someone has used your data, in which case it would be plain stupid of someone to lie because he would be found out and his credibility destroyed. It would be his users who'd expect him to tell the truth about where he's got the data from - not us data providers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I take back what I previously said to 80n about all PD advocates being on the same page ;-) We're very close, and we don't have to agree. Data published with free non-viral licenses can coexist peacefully. We're really arguing about what the default license for contributors should be. Joseph, with PD you don't get to dictate how the data is used. You waive all rights, including the right to be identified as the author. If someone takes the whole TIGER dataset and says he drew it up himself, I don't think there is anything to stop him - just that he makes a complete fool of himself because nobody will believe him. Thats not true. I don't think the US Government has waived their moral rights regarding the TIGER data. As I understand it, placing work in the public domain does not automatically waive your moral rights on the work. Same with your contributions to a PD database. EITHER your contribution is marginal so that someone can realistically claim he did it all by himself, in which case nobody can prove him otherwise - and even if your license did contain a bit about not allowing him to lie about the provenance of the data, he could still do it and not be found out. OR your contribution is substantial so that anyone can see that someone has used your data, in which case it would be plain stupid of someone to lie because he would be found out and his credibility destroyed. I don't understand the use case for people passing off my work as their own. I am a huge proponent of public domain; but I don't see how waiving moral rights ever helps. I understand if people want to use my work for any purpose. I understand them building it into their product, selling it, changing it, publishing it, putting overlays, etc. I'm happy with all of that. But if you waive moral rights they can also say Frederik is a liar if he said he made them. If you want these maps, you come to us because they are ours! I have no problem with anyone using the maps. I have no problem getting no attribution. But I have a problem with that sort of thing. The Berne Convention says it best: Independent of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to the said work, which would be prejudicial to the author's honor or reputation. (thanks wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights ) Note that this does not say people can't change or mutilate your data. It just says that the mutilation won't be attributed to you. I would be happy to waive moral rights if you can provide a useful use case for doing so. Until then, it feels dirty and I don't see the point. -J It would be his users who'd expect him to tell the truth about where he's got the data from - not us data providers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Hi, Joseph Gentle wrote: I don't understand the use case for people passing off my work as their own. I don't either. But trying to force *anything* onto your users means that you cannot let go of the data - you're then automatically entering this whole license swamp because where you make demands you also need a stick to enforce them: I grant you a license to use this for whatever, BUT should you ever try to pass this data off as your own, THEN this license is void and since I am still the owner of the data I will then revoke all your rights under this license and threaten you with EVIL THINGS... See, you can only enforce anything if your data is *not* PD, if you still reserve the right to withdraw the license from people who misbehave. Independent of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to the said work, which would be prejudicial to the author's honor or reputation. If you intend to uphold this, then your PD repository is likely to become less free than the original OSM data set which, at least in the curren ODbL draft, waives this right. Note that this does not say people can't change or mutilate your data. It just says that the mutilation won't be attributed to you. I don't read it that way. The author can object to certain treatment of the work if that damages his reputation. Not the author may choose not to be mentioned in connection with the work if someone decides to use it in conjunction with human excrements for an art installation or so ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Joseph Gentle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats not true. I don't think the US Government has waived their moral rights regarding the TIGER data. As I understand it, placing work in the public domain does not automatically waive your moral rights on the work. Moral rights are a very murky, unsettled area of law in many parts of the world. They are definately best avoided in any OSM PD model. I would doubt that there are any moral rights under US law associated with the TIGER data for the government even to renounce. I understand if people want to use my work for any purpose. I understand them building it into their product, selling it, changing it, publishing it, putting overlays, etc. I'm happy with all of that. But if you waive moral rights they can also say Frederik is a liar if he said he made them. If you want these maps, you come to us because they are ours! There can be a right to integrity - even if the original author is not attributed. There can be a right of attribution. This is the stuff we want to leave way behind with a PD licence. Leave behind concerns of attribution, where and how. Leave behind concerns of who can change what, or what they can do with it. Why would you go PD to get rid of the copyright minefield, and then step right into another quagmire. A PD licence says, I've created the data, I've done it because I enjoyed doing it, got out in the fresh air, and played around with GPS's, computers and mapping. Now, go and do whatever you want with what I've done. If someone else wants to lie and say they made them, then they must answer to their respective deity, because I've had my fun, and I don't care. Ian. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Tiger 2007 Data
Anyway, it seems that the new data is substantially better than the old in some places. What I'd like to do is twofold: 1. regenerate .osm files for all the new TIGER data 2. Compare new .osm files to old TIGER data plus stuff edited in OSM Then, decide how if/when it is appropriate to write over the old TIGER stuff with new. Or, to merge it somehow. Comparison and merge tools of different OSM data sets is going to be very useful beyond just TIGER. We're importing more and more external data sets (UN, Canada), and want an easy way to take advantage of updates. Offline/low bandwidth modes of OSM are going to be necessary to map in remote areas humanitarian relief operations, and will require an merge tool set as well. Diff of wiki text is relatively easy. What sorts of ideas do we have for representing diffs of mapping data? Any ideas on feasibility of a JOSM plugin? Mikel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] firefox upload utility
I just saw this upload utility for Firefox. It looks like something cool to add to the website. http://www.fireuploader.com/#fupHome ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
Any idea about the differences between the Tiger data in the OSM db and this new set? By that I mean: is it just road network updates or is the data also better defined? The current tiger data in the db may look alright on a map, but routing wise it is a real mess. Dave Hansen wrote: Has anyone looked at importing the TIGER 2007 data yet? I was going to start coding up the conversion utilities to get started. It appears that this shapefile format may have existing OSM converters out there. Anyone want to admit to having one? ;) -- Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Georeferencing images WAS ping OpenAerialMap
David Groom reviews at pacific-rim.net writes: From: andrew list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk I've some aerial photos that I need to find how to georeference, 4MB jpegs and 17 overlapping tiles, is there a program you can recommend? Andrew Heggie How about Quantum GIS with the georeferencing plugin http://www.qgis.org/ David Hi, I made a quick test with Quantum GIS (version 0.10 Io) georeferencing plugin. It was pretty easy to use. Coordinates can be given manually or then can be captured from a map window showing existing map, image or WMS layer. However, at least the version I used can only calculate the place for origo and pixel size in x and y directions. The plugin does not do warping nor rotating. Therefore it is only usable if the image to be georeferenced is not rotated nor distorted. It is OK if the map or image is captured from the web (for example by using the OSM Export utility) or scanned carefully without rotating the original. Good thing is that the ground control points are automatically stored into text file with real world and pixel coordinates. That way QGis can be used as a GUI for measuring GCPs for gdalwarp. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:54:55AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Has anyone looked at importing the TIGER 2007 data yet? I was going to start coding up the conversion utilities to get started. It appears that this shapefile format may have existing OSM converters out there. Anyone want to admit to having one? ;) I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Then you'll need to to a diff between the old data and the new data, and find out which ID's are candidates for updating. Then you could do a diff between old and OSM for those IDs. Anything that's not touched in OSM -- update. Anything else, I'm sure you'll have to do more or less manually, but I'm sure you could automatize bits of it - like road classification changes, name changes etc. This is my rough proposal for how to handle large chunks of external data. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Asus eee and OpenStreetMap
Valent Turkovic wrote: ... Asus eee 701 is cheap and great little and very portable laptop - just perfect for mapping! I hope you find this howto helpful. ... If you have bluetooth GPS dongle that you have laying around, or can borrow one from somebody, and like driving a bike or a car around then this is the guide for you. Agreed, the eee is great (almost as nice as the Acer Aspire One which I use) but who wants all that hassle with Linux configurations and lugging around even a tiny laptop (especially on your bike!) when you can just use your phone to log tracks? Many phones have GPS built in and almost all the others have Bluetooth and there are plenty of free applications (including my own, 'mom') see the wiki at... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew- ware#Mobile_Phones_.2F_J2ME elvin___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Asus eee and OpenStreetMap
On Mon, October 20, 2008 09:48, elvin ibbotson wrote: Agreed, the eee is great (almost as nice as the Acer Aspire One which I use) but who wants all that hassle with Linux configurations and lugging around even a tiny laptop (especially on your bike!) when you can just use your phone to log tracks? Because when you're in a car as a co-pilot, using JOSM to doodle and take notes is just great. Period. :-) -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] roundabout vs miniround about
On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Joe Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you have to add oneway=yes too highway tag with junction=roundabout is probably the single highway case where oneway is true by default. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GPS routing using OpenStreetMap data?
Are there any applications (on linux preferably) that use OpenStreetMap maps and give standard GPS routing functions like commercial car GPS units? Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS routing using OpenStreetMap data?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, October 20, 2008 10:52, Valent Turkovic wrote: Are there any applications (on linux preferably) that use OpenStreetMap maps and give standard GPS routing functions like commercial car GPS units? Navit, GPSdrive, gosmore. You can also put OSM data into just any commercial Garmin-branded GPS navigator. Thanks! I'm compiling navit on my Asus eee running Fedora 9 right now ;) Cheers from Croatia, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to reset JOSM password?
On 19 Oct 2008, at 14:56, Simone Cortesi wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Moshe Sayag [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After not using josm for a month or two I am no longer able to upload new data. The authentication fails and I can't figure why. Where can I reset the password? I found where to reset the password of OSM and [EMAIL PROTECTED] but not of JOSM (is it the same one of OSM? It doesn't work for me) JOSM password is the same as the one for the main osm website (not the wiki). in JOSM just use the one you would use here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/login?referer=%2Findex.html To set the username and password in JOSM, go into the JOSM preferences, and select the second tab. You should then see how to enter the username and password. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS routing using OpenStreetMap data?
On Mon, October 20, 2008 10:52, Valent Turkovic wrote: Are there any applications (on linux preferably) that use OpenStreetMap maps and give standard GPS routing functions like commercial car GPS units? Navit, GPSdrive, gosmore. You can also put OSM data into just any commercial Garmin-branded GPS navigator. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenCycleMap questions
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Ryszard Mikke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I ask them here or is there some other list/forum? There's no list or forum devoted to OpenCycleMap - but feel free to ask your questions here. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, sergio sevillano wrote: the key:barrier has been approved and thus the highway=gate now belongs to barrier *barrier=gate * shall we run a script to do this? No, because this would break existing rendering. First make sure the new tag is supported by the majority of renderers - otherwise it will look to people as if the gates had been removed because they're suddenly not on the map any more. And remember that renderers aren't just the main ones that show map tiles, there's lots of other ones for mobile devices including e.g. mkgmap, which may or may not need to be modified. Also any editor presets (all the editors, not just JOSM), and of course the multitude of routing programs. Please remember that not all users of OSM data are internal to the project any more, so external users of the data may not be constantly working on keeping their tag sets up to date. So allow a long overlap period. It should also be that the vast majority of new tags are using the new scheme, since it doesn't matter how many people vote on proposals, there's literally orders of magnitude more people actually inputting data and it's they who are more important when deciding which tags to deprecate. Cheers, Andy Who dislikes the concept of deprecating tags almost as much as people automatically changing thousands of tags two days after a self-selected cabal think that the voting system is the be all and end all... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] APIs down?
All of my clients are currently failing to download data from any of the APIs. Are they really down, or do I have some other problem? Main API reports a 500 Internal Server Error, ROMA gives a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable, and XAPI gives 501 Internal Server Error. -Jeremy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Hi, sergio sevillano wrote: the key:barrier has been approved and thus the highway=gate now belongs to barrier *barrier=gate * shall we run a script to do this? No, because this would break existing rendering. First make sure the new tag is supported by the majority of renderers - otherwise it will look to people as if the gates had been removed because they're suddenly not on the map any more. And remember that renderers aren't just the main ones that show map tiles, there's lots of other ones for mobile devices including e.g. mkgmap, which may or may not need to be modified. Also any editor presets (all the editors, not just JOSM), and of course the multitude of routing programs. When waiting till the majority of the software (using osm data) changed to the new tags, will there ever be a chance to run a convert script? Not just for the barrier tag, for any tag. IMOH there will never be a chance. There are still about 280 class=highway in germany.. (says the tagwatch.dstoecker.eu). Who dislikes the concept of deprecating tags almost as much as people automatically changing thousands of tags two days after a self-selected cabal think that the voting system is the be all and end all... Whats about a clean-up-day? At a given day, every year/quarter/month, all deprecating tags will be converted. With a list about which tags this will would be for the next clean-up-day. So there is a chance for doing this by hand in your region. Regards, raphael ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Raphael Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, sergio sevillano wrote: the key:barrier has been approved and thus the highway=gate now belongs to barrier *barrier=gate * shall we run a script to do this? No, because this would break existing rendering. First make sure the new tag is supported by the majority of renderers - otherwise it will look to people as if the gates had been removed because they're suddenly not on the map any more. And remember that renderers aren't just the main ones that show map tiles, there's lots of other ones for mobile devices including e.g. mkgmap, which may or may not need to be modified. Also any editor presets (all the editors, not just JOSM), and of course the multitude of routing programs. When waiting till the majority of the software (using osm data) changed to the new tags, will there ever be a chance to run a convert script? Not just for the barrier tag, for any tag. IMOH there will never be a chance. There are still about 280 class=highway in germany.. (says the tagwatch.dstoecker.eu). Who dislikes the concept of deprecating tags almost as much as people automatically changing thousands of tags two days after a self-selected cabal think that the voting system is the be all and end all... Whats about a clean-up-day? At a given day, every year/quarter/month, all deprecating tags will be converted. With a list about which tags this will would be for the next clean-up-day. So there is a chance for doing this by hand in your region. I suspect the vast majority of these class=highway ways will fall into one of these two categories: 1) The way also has a highway tag 2) There will be a way either directly on top, or running in a vaguely overlapping way, which has highway tags. (quite possibly with a FIXME=previously unwayed segment.. or whatever the tag is). So any automatic script is going to be either unnecessary, or harmful (you'll end up with two roads instead of just one). In obvious deprecation like this I think you're better off writing a tool to find them, and flag them for people to go have a look at. The real question to ask here is what the clean-up is meant to achieve? Especially when the new tag does not really interfere with the old tag, what does forcibly removing the old tag actually get you? Perhaps a cleaner data model, or a smaller planet dump, but only in the extreme case where you actually succeed. And are these worth the instant breakage of tools you have nothing to do with? Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Raphael suggested: Whats about a clean-up-day? At a given day, every year/quarter/month, all deprecating tags will be converted. With a list about which tags this will would be for the next clean-up-day. So there is a chance for doing this by hand in your region. I'm still not convinced about deprecating tags in general, but my thoughts (for what they're worth) are: Update Map Features. At some point this will result in an updated set of maplint tests. At some point the [EMAIL PROTECTED] clients will update to use these new tests. At some point tiles (with gates) will probably be rerendered, highlighting items not in map features if the maplint information layer is shown. Someone may investigate what isn't in map features in an area and update the tagging to the new version. If so, then cleaning up will be an ongoing task. Before then of course the main tools used for tagging will probably need any shortcuts for adding gates (I added a couple yesterday using JOSM, for example) to be updated. I didn't look to see what tags it used, or whether Map Features had changed since I last added any. I'm a bit worried that when it comes to scripts there is the prospect of unintentional changes as well as the intended ones, although that seems less likely in this instance as it seems a straight forward switch. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] APIs down?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Milenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of my clients are currently failing to download data from any of the APIs. Are they really down, or do I have some other problem? Main API reports a 500 Internal Server Error, ROMA gives a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable, and XAPI gives 501 Internal Server Error. Two (out of three) of the XAPI servers are up. Both http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org and http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/were responding fine just now. A 501 error is normally a symptom that there are no free daemons. Likely to happen if either or both of them get overloaded. Its usually a temporary condition. 80n -Jeremy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] APIs down?
Do you mean with taking in to account borders data already deployed in Openstreetmap, that you will keep the existing ones based on VMAP?. That data is crap (i imported it a long time ago), at least in Southern-France and anywhere else i looked. So i think the Italian data will be better. Thomas On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Simone Cortesi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:28 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Milenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of my clients are currently failing to download data from any of the APIs. Are they really down, or do I have some other problem? Main API reports a 500 Internal Server Error, ROMA gives a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable, and XAPI gives 501 Internal Server Error. Two (out of three) of the XAPI servers are up. Both http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org and http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/ were responding fine just now. A 501 error is normally a symptom that there are no free daemons. Likely to happen if either or both of them get overloaded. Its usually a temporary condition. I'm in the process of uploading 55mb of italian borders as of here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Italian_Borders I've just launched a couple of admin_level=* limited to the italian BBox OSMXAPI calls. I might be the cause of it... :( -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] APIs down?
No, I mean: relation structure, information inside tag\value pair, not talking about accuracy of them. -S On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Skywave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean with taking in to account borders data already deployed in Openstreetmap, that you will keep the existing ones based on VMAP?. That data is crap (i imported it a long time ago), at least in Southern-France and anywhere else i looked. So i think the Italian data will be better. Thomas On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Simone Cortesi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:28 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Milenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of my clients are currently failing to download data from any of the APIs. Are they really down, or do I have some other problem? Main API reports a 500 Internal Server Error, ROMA gives a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable, and XAPI gives 501 Internal Server Error. Two (out of three) of the XAPI servers are up. Both http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org and http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/ were responding fine just now. A 501 error is normally a symptom that there are no free daemons. Likely to happen if either or both of them get overloaded. Its usually a temporary condition. I'm in the process of uploading 55mb of italian borders as of here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Italian_Borders I've just launched a couple of admin_level=* limited to the italian BBox OSMXAPI calls. I might be the cause of it... :( -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OsmXapi and semicolons
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Kai Krueger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I was using OsmXapi today to try and get a set of bus_stops however there seem to be inconsistencies with the encoding of some of the semicolons. for example calling wget http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/node[highway=bus_stop][bbox=-1,51.51,0,51.52]http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/node%5Bhighway=bus_stop%5D%5Bbbox=-1,51.51,0,51.52%5D I get the following xml from xapi for node 281455008: node id='281455008' lat='51.5167833' lon='-0.1279817' user='amm' osmxapi:users='smsm1,amm' timestamp='2008-10-07T23:07:46Z' tag k='bus_number' v='1\s8\s25\s98\s242\sN1\sN8\sN68\sN98\sN171\sN207'/ tag k='highway' v='bus_stop'/ tag k='name' v='New Oxford Street'/ /node whereas the main api gives back the correct data osm version=0.5 generator=OpenStreetMap server node id=281455008 lat=51.5167833 lon=-0.1279817 user=amm visible=true timestamp=2008-10-08T00:07:46+01:00 tag k=bus_number v=1;8;25;98;242;N1;N8;N68;N98;N171;N207/ tag k=highway v=bus_stop/ tag k=name v=New Oxford Street/ /node /osm However not all of the semicolons are replaced by \s for example node id='265255763' lat='51.5105981' lon='-0.2886720' user='Harry Wood' osmxapi:users='Harry Wood' timestamp='2008-05-17T17:04:34Z' tag k='highway' v='bus_stop'/ tag k='ref' v='ET'/ tag k='routes' v='207;427;607;N7;N207'/ /node looks correct. I am not sure, but potentially the behaviour changed mid September? There was a change in, perhaps in mid September, to fix an escaping problem with ampersand (). That may have broken something. I'll take a look. Is this a known issue? thanks, Kai ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] APIs down?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:28 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Milenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of my clients are currently failing to download data from any of the APIs. Are they really down, or do I have some other problem? Main API reports a 500 Internal Server Error, ROMA gives a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable, and XAPI gives 501 Internal Server Error. Two (out of three) of the XAPI servers are up. Both http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org and http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/ were responding fine just now. A 501 error is normally a symptom that there are no free daemons. Likely to happen if either or both of them get overloaded. Its usually a temporary condition. I'm in the process of uploading 55mb of italian borders as of here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Italian_Borders I've just launched a couple of admin_level=* limited to the italian BBox OSMXAPI calls. I might be the cause of it... :( -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] What happend to the tube line overlay map?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 About 18 months ago, Artem demonstrated a map of London with coloured tube lines in an overlay: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-May/014185.html The map mentioned in the post doesn't seem to be working any more: http://media.mapnik.org/osm-tube.html Is there any chance we could put something similar on the main map? One problem I recall from the time was that OpenLayers didn't easily let you say that an overlay should only be selectable when you are in a certain area of the world. Obviously if we start adding overlays like this in different parts of the world, and they were all visible on the main map, the overlay selector would get ridiculously long. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj8pSYACgkQz+aYVHdncI12FQCfRWMtPU7RILGVhFcD+lNvbB9X uAgAoPagEbdruYbuxSO/acnquG9zhgnp =E4s0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The real question to ask here is what the clean-up is meant to achieve? Especially when the new tag does not really interfere with the old tag, what does forcibly removing the old tag actually get you? Perhaps a cleaner data model, or a smaller planet dump, but only in the extreme case where you actually succeed. And are these worth the instant breakage of tools you have nothing to do with? Unless these tools are intended to work on only a limited subset of the data they will break as soon as someone enters some data under the new tagging scheme. I don't think it is any better if a tool misses half the gates in an area because they are tagged differently. If a tool suddenly does not show gates anymore its users can notify the author. It can go undetected for a long time if a tool just ignores new gates. So, I would argue for a grace period after which tools are expected to support the new tag, and then a depreciation period after which tools may drop support for the old tag. (The quote marks are because OSM is in no position to prescribe to tool authors what to support and Map Features is a recommendation only anyway.) Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On 20/10/2008 18:27, Matthias Julius wrote: Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The real question to ask here is what the clean-up is meant to achieve? Especially when the new tag does not really interfere with the old tag, what does forcibly removing the old tag actually get you? Perhaps a cleaner data model, or a smaller planet dump, but only in the extreme case where you actually succeed. And are these worth the instant breakage of tools you have nothing to do with? Unless these tools are intended to work on only a limited subset of the data they will break as soon as someone enters some data under the new tagging scheme. I don't think it is any better if a tool misses half the gates in an area because they are tagged differently. And ditto vice-versa: even if a script is run to update, someone unaware of the change will come along and add the old tag. If I were a tool author (which I am, of course, but namefinder is not interested in gates; however the same principle applies to any deprecated tag), for a widely used tag I would feel I needed leave the old one in indefinitely for backward compatibility in the absence of any enforceable standards. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:43 AM, vegard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:54:55AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Has anyone looked at importing the TIGER 2007 data yet? I was going to start coding up the conversion utilities to get started. It appears that this shapefile format may have existing OSM converters out there. Anyone want to admit to having one? ;) I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Then you'll need to to a diff between the old data and the new data, and find out which ID's are candidates for updating. Then you could do a diff between old and OSM for those IDs. Anything that's not touched in OSM -- update. Anything else, I'm sure you'll have to do more or less manually, but I'm sure you could automatize bits of it - like road classification changes, name changes etc. This is my rough proposal for how to handle large chunks of external data. Hello, So what tiger data are we talking about exactly? I have a script that loads zipcodes shp files into postgregis table? Not sure if that helps? It basically loops through a states and enters them to a postgis using shp2pssql. Lucas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I were a tool author (which I am, of course, but namefinder is not interested in gates; however the same principle applies to any deprecated tag), for a widely used tag I would feel I needed leave the old one in indefinitely for backward compatibility in the absence of any enforceable standards. If you are the author of a popular tool you are the enforcer. That is if you say My tool will recognize gates if they are tagged in this way there is a good chance that people will do exactly that. In the end it is the tool authors who need to decide whether they want to stop supporting some legacy tagging scheme. Anyway, after a tag has been removed from Map Features or clearly marked as depreciated and no new data has been added with that tag for a good while (a year maybe) it is probably safe to convert existing occurances to the new scheme and stop supporting the old one, IMHO. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 09:21 +0200, Lambertus wrote: Any idea about the differences between the Tiger data in the OSM db and this new set? By that I mean: is it just road network updates or is the data also better defined? The current tiger data in the db may look alright on a map, but routing wise it is a real mess. I have no idea since I can't even convert it to OSM format quite yet. I'm in the process of converting the old ruby code over to perl. I hate ruby with a passion, and I think it slowed me down horribly last time. In the newer code, I will make a substantial effort to fix up some of the things that were wrong with the old code: 1. No braided streets. My old code just tried to make individual ways with the same name as long as possible. I need to be more careful at 3/4-way *intersections* when the ways have the same name. 2. Follow motorway_links and ensure they hit motorways. TIGER only has one 'onramp' tag, and it got converted wholesale to highway=motorway_link, even when it is nowhere near a motorway 3. Pay more attention to connections. Don't let motorways and highway=residential share nodes as easily. Anyone want to add to my list? How about put it on the wiki for me? ;) -- Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 09:43 +0200, vegard wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:54:55AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Has anyone looked at importing the TIGER 2007 data yet? I was going to start coding up the conversion utilities to get started. It appears that this shapefile format may have existing OSM converters out there. Anyone want to admit to having one? ;) I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Umm. We have this. It's called a tlid, and it's already in the data set. When TIGER objects got combined into a single OSM object, I preserved this tag. I *also* submitted patches to JOSM to preserve this tag when merging points and ways. -- Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Hi, Matthias Julius wrote: Anyway, after a tag has been removed from Map Features Of course nobody would remove a tag from Map Features as long as it is still widely used! It seems that User:Sergionaranja was unclear about this and has accidentally removed highway=gate and others from Map Features (and indeed documented some barrier=* tags on the Map Features:highway template where they don't belong!). I have reverted that edit, and added a proper section for the barrier tag. or clearly marked as depreciated There is no authority in OSM that has the power to mark anything as deprecated. I have modified the wording on the page deprecated features to clearly say that these are tags for which a replacement is recommended, not deprecated tags that should no longer be used. Whoever put that wording in there, please note that you have *no* authority to tell people how they should tag things! I am also thinking about renaming the page altogether. There is simply no room for the word deprecated here. I'm just unsure about the new name. Old features? Older features? and no new data has been added with that tag for a good while (a year maybe) it is probably safe to convert existing occurances to the new scheme and stop supporting the old one, IMHO. It is probably never safe but at some time one has to move on, we cannot support old stuff forever. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 12:27:27PM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 09:43 +0200, vegard wrote: I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Umm. We have this. It's called a tlid, and it's already in the data set. When TIGER objects got combined into a single OSM object, I preserved this tag. I *also* submitted patches to JOSM to preserve this tag when merging points and ways. Good! I swear, I did mean to write you might already have this, but Well, rest of conversion depends: Is there a (relatively) easy way to do a diff between the old set and the new set? It'd be good to know what is the changes introduced by the new set. The size/amount of those changes will decide the strategy for rest, no? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS routing using OpenStreetMap data?
Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: On Mon, October 20, 2008 10:52, Valent Turkovic wrote: Are there any applications (on linux preferably) that use OpenStreetMap maps and give standard GPS routing functions like commercial car GPS units? Navit, GPSdrive, gosmore. You can also put OSM data into just any commercial Garmin-branded GPS navigator. Roadnav has some support. RoadMap does too. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Peter Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: What does OSM Foundation think about the PD repository? Would it make sense to host both licences under the name OpenStreetMap or would it be confusing? How much OSMF wants to be part of the PD version? After all I think most of the decisions will be the same for both (e.g. deciding about tags, road types, changes in software...) To be clear, the OSMF is there to support the project and it is the OSM contributors (and the OSMF members) who should guide the direction that the project goes in. If the community says 'pd' then this is the way I am sure the foundation would support it going. In the absence of a strong vote for pd their attitude is to sort out the share-alike licence. To be doubly clear the OSMF's articles of association say this, and only this, about its objectives: OpenStreetMap Foundation is dedicated to encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free geospatial data and to providing geospatial data for anybody to use and share. Btw, I don't really see how the project would work if one contributor in an area was doing PD and the other was not. There would need to be dual work to produce a good pd version of the area which would be weird and hard to explain to say the least. Anyway, I do think it would be useful to set up a pd-talk list to capture all this and to ensure that it doesn't overwhelm the legal-talk list which I suggest should be more focused on current legal concerns. If there is not a pd-project wiki page then I suggest you set one of those up and link to it from the ODBL page. Thanks, Peter ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Jordan S Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On picking a PD dedication/licence: On 16 Oct 2008, at 20:08, Kari Pihkala wrote: I created a wiki page for the public domain map, have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Public_Domain_Map . There is also a link from the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/ Open_Data_License to the new page. I listed all public domain licenses - we need to decide which one to use. How to make decisions? Voting? On 15 Oct 2008, at 09:22, Rob Myers wrote: The CC PD dedication has the usual problems in jurisdictions where you can't waive your rights. CC Zero is designed to fix this, I believe. On 16 Oct 2008, at 03:58, Joseph Gentle wrote: I don't think picking the right PD license will be a particularly large hurdle. It is certainly less complicated than selecting a share-alike license :) The wikipedia pd license looks good. I would strongly think about the Open Data Commons Public Domain Dedication and Licence, which as John Wilbanks mentions in another post is specifically geared towards data and is compliant with the Science Commons protocol. But of course I co-wrote the PDDL so I would say that. Unless you have to make a decision really soon on which to choose, I would however wait and see how CC Zero shakes out in the final draft and how it gets implemented in order to make an informed choice between all the options. Ironically, this thread was started by Sunburned Surveyor who said: I wasn't a proponent of this public domain approach until I started to learn about the licensing issue and some of the problems and complications it can cause. I know believe things are a lot simpler if my OSM data is just released into the public domain before it is contributed. Perhaps PD is not as simple as it seems at first sight. Thanks! ~Jordan Mr. Jordan S Hatcher, JD, LLM jordan at opencontentlawyer dot com OC Blog: http://opencontentlawyer.com IP/IT Blog: http://twitchgamer.net Open Data Commons http://opendatacommons.org Usage of Creative Commons by cultural heritage organisations http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/studies/cc2007 ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Hi, 80n wrote: Perhaps PD is not as simple as it seems at first sight. The thing that is simple about PD is what contributors want - they simply want to make the data available to anyone, forever, without restrictions of any kind, full stop. You will not find a single use case where one PD advocate says I want this to be possible and another says nay, this should not be allowed and the third says ok we can allow this but only if the licensee dons a funny hat and runs in circles for half an hour. We're all 100% on the same side and there is absolutely no discussion about where to draw the line between allowed and not allowed. The more complex thing is that some jurisdictions make it really difficult for you to give away your rights so generously. So the guy who told you use my data as you see fit might actually be from a country where him saying so doesn't exactly mean what he says! But this is really legislation gone mad, and should not be held against the idea of PD. The idea of giving away something freely, with no strings attached, *is* a very simple idea that can easily be understood by anyone. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Starting Repository For Public Domain OSM Data
Perhaps PD is not as simple as it seems at first sight. True. But its got to be simpler than viral share-alike. :] The Sunburned Surveyor On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:12 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Jordan S Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On picking a PD dedication/licence: On 16 Oct 2008, at 20:08, Kari Pihkala wrote: I created a wiki page for the public domain map, have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Public_Domain_Map . There is also a link from the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/ Open_Data_License to the new page. I listed all public domain licenses - we need to decide which one to use. How to make decisions? Voting? On 15 Oct 2008, at 09:22, Rob Myers wrote: The CC PD dedication has the usual problems in jurisdictions where you can't waive your rights. CC Zero is designed to fix this, I believe. On 16 Oct 2008, at 03:58, Joseph Gentle wrote: I don't think picking the right PD license will be a particularly large hurdle. It is certainly less complicated than selecting a share-alike license :) The wikipedia pd license looks good. I would strongly think about the Open Data Commons Public Domain Dedication and Licence, which as John Wilbanks mentions in another post is specifically geared towards data and is compliant with the Science Commons protocol. But of course I co-wrote the PDDL so I would say that. Unless you have to make a decision really soon on which to choose, I would however wait and see how CC Zero shakes out in the final draft and how it gets implemented in order to make an informed choice between all the options. Ironically, this thread was started by Sunburned Surveyor who said: I wasn't a proponent of this public domain approach until I started to learn about the licensing issue and some of the problems and complications it can cause. I know believe things are a lot simpler if my OSM data is just released into the public domain before it is contributed. Perhaps PD is not as simple as it seems at first sight. Thanks! ~Jordan Mr. Jordan S Hatcher, JD, LLM jordan at opencontentlawyer dot com OC Blog: http://opencontentlawyer.com IP/IT Blog: http://twitchgamer.net Open Data Commons http://opendatacommons.org Usage of Creative Commons by cultural heritage organisations http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/studies/cc2007 ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Matthias Julius wrote: Anyway, after a tag has been removed from Map Features Of course nobody would remove a tag from Map Features as long as it is still widely used! It seems that User:Sergionaranja was unclear about this and has accidentally removed highway=gate and others from Map Features (and indeed documented some barrier=* tags on the Map Features:highway template where they don't belong!). I have reverted that edit, and added a proper section for the barrier tag. or clearly marked as depreciated There is no authority in OSM that has the power to mark anything as deprecated. I have modified the wording on the page deprecated features to clearly say that these are tags for which a replacement is recommended, not deprecated tags that should no longer be used. Whoever put that wording in there, please note that you have *no* authority to tell people how they should tag things! I am also thinking about renaming the page altogether. There is simply no room for the word deprecated here. I'm just unsure about the new name. Old features? Older features? Unfashionable Features? and no new data has been added with that tag for a good while (a year maybe) it is probably safe to convert existing occurances to the new scheme and stop supporting the old one, IMHO. It is probably never safe but at some time one has to move on, we cannot support old stuff forever. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] TIGER 2007, first OSM data
I'm trying to share early and often. :) Here's the first output from my new TIGER 2007 script. I used shp2osm.pl from SVN and added a perl port of a chunk of the ruby code from the original TIGER import. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~daveh/tiger/2007/OR-Sherman.osm.bz2 This doesn't have any of the right OSM tags, but it *is* data of some kind and opens in JOSM. Here's the code that I used: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~daveh/tiger/2007/tiger2007-tools-001.tar.gz You can run it like this: perl tiger-shp-to-osm.pl data/ftp2.census.gov/geo/tiger/TIGER2007FE/41_OREGON/41055_Sherman/fe_2007_41055_edges.zip out-dave.osm Don't count on any more tarball releases. I think I'll just stick it in a git repo and forget about it. -- Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] TIGER 2007, first OSM data
I created a first stab at the wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/TIGER_2007 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no authority in OSM that has the power to mark anything as deprecated. IMHO, if someone has the authority to put something on Map Features someone also has the authority to change or remove something or mark it as deprecated. I have modified the wording on the page deprecated features to clearly say that these are tags for which a replacement is recommended, not deprecated tags that should no longer be used. Whoever put that wording in there, please note that you have *no* authority to tell people how they should tag things! Well, whole Map Features is about how people should tag things (not how they must tag things). The first paragraph says that you can tag how you want but this is the core recommended feature set. If something is not recommended anymore it needs to be marked as such and eventually removed. I am also thinking about renaming the page altogether. There is simply no room for the word deprecated here. I'm just unsure about the new name. Old features? Older features? Whether you call those tags deprecated, obsolete or old is secondary. As long it is clear that Map Features is only a recommendation it should also be clear that a deprecated feature on there is also only a recommendation as well. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
Hi, Matthias Julius wrote: IMHO, if someone has the authority to put something on Map Features someone also has the authority to change or remove something or mark it as deprecated. Map Features is a documentation of what is used, not of what someone thinks should be used. There is a rather objective basis for what is used - the planet file. There is no objective basis for what should be used - everybody has their own ideas. These things form slowly; someone documents his idea somewhere, others talk about it on the lists or forums, with time it gets adopted by many (or not), and there may come a time when you look at Map Features and say hm, this highway=gate is barely used any more, let's ditch it, and that's fine. But this is something you do ex post, not ex ante, or put another way, Map Features is not a normative page, it is empirical. We have no mechanism to divide good from bad ideas. If you start putting your ideas about what you think is good and should be used on Map Features, then I will start putting mine on there as well, and everyone else. That's why we don't want to go down this road. (And before anyone asks, a vote in which 0.01% of mappers participate does not elevate one idea about what is good above hundreds of others.) Well, whole Map Features is about how people should tag things No, that's your interpretation. Map features is primarily about what *is* used. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] missing tiles at osmarender
There are some missing tiles at osmarender http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.6365lon=121.1zoom=14layers=0B00FTF Checking the data layer, that data is there. cheers, maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] Parkeerterrein die alleen toegankelijk is voor gehandicapten
Hallo, Ik ben momenteel bezig met het aanpassen van de kaart van Drachten. Aan de hand van GPS traces ben ik bezig met het toevoegen van nieuwe wijken, aangepaste verkeer situaties, fietspaden en het toevoegen van parkeerplaatsen en andere kleine wegen. Ik ben een situatie tegengekomen welke lastig is om te taggen. Het gaat om een parkeerplaats welke bestaat uit alleen maar parkeerplaatsen voor gehandicapten. Ik heb momenteel de weg aangegeven als: highway=service service=parking_aisle Maar hoe kan ik nu aangeven dat dit alleen voor gehandicapten is? Ik zat zelf te denken aan: access=restricted of access=license Maar beide zijn geen exacte match. Heeft er iemand een beter idee? Met vriendelijke groet, Niels Leenheer ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Parkeerterrein die alleen toegankelijk is voor gehandicapten
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Geert Schuring wrote: Ik zou er iets van access=handicapped van maken. Maar het beste is om een voorstel op de internationale wiki te doen. En zoals bij veel dingen, als je het consistent 'anders' doet, is het later ook wel consistent te wijzigen ;) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Robin Harmsen wrote: Momenteel is de Fonera 2.0 officieel nog niet beschikbaar in nederland, maar als er intresse is om hier iets mee te doen, is het vast mogelijk een of meerdere fonera's te krijgen van FON. Zou FON er blij van worden als ze Fonera's maken en die niet als WiFi router worden gebruikt? Ik moet zeggen dat je (natuurlijk heel ambitieus) kunt zeggen dat je een mesh netwerk van Fonera's op de snelweg wilt bouwen, maar of Fonera dat een tof idee vindt weet ik niet ;) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Parkeerterrein die alleen toegankelijk is voor gehandicapten
Ik zou er iets van access=handicapped van maken. Maar het beste is om een voorstel op de internationale wiki te doen. Geert. - Original Message From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org To: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] Parkeerterrein die alleen toegankelijk is voor gehandicapten Date: 20/10/08 12:02 Hallo,Ik ben momenteel bezig met het aanpassen van de kaart van Drachten. Aan de handvan GPS traces ben ik bezig met het toevoegen van nieuwe wijken, aangepaste verkeer situaties, fietspadennbsp;en het toevoegen van parkeerplaatsen en andere kleinewegen.Ik ben een situatie tegengekomen welke lastig is om te taggen.Het gaat om een parkeerplaats welke bestaat uit alleen maar parkeerplaatsen voor gehandicapten. Ik heb momenteel de weg aangegeven als:highway=serviceservice=parking_aisleMaar hoe kan ik nu aangeven dat dit alleen voor gehandicapten is? Ik zat zelf te denken aan:access=restrictedofaccess=licenseMaar beide zijn geen exacte match. Heeft er iemand een beter idee?Met vriendelijke groet,Niels Leenheer ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Het is dus zo dat FON zijn hele filosofie heeft omgegooid. Er was al even over gesproken op het IRC kannaal #fonosfera @ FreeNode door een andere gebruiker die er een auto systeem in zag. Hij had het meer over multimedia toepassingen, wat volgens mij met de huidige hardware lastig wordt (alhoewel MP3 prima kan) Ook was er dus een idee geopperd om UMTS + GPS + Audio + Video te doen. Het FON team staat heel erg open voor suggesties en ideeën, dus als er hier iemand loopt die er iets mee wil doen, heb je aardig kans om een fonera te krijgen om het een en ander mee uit te proberen. Uiteraard zullen ze heel erg blij zijn als er nog wel WiFi/HotSpot functionaliteit zal blijven. Als er een goede MeSHing standaard komt en deze wordt ook toegepast in andere producten die in auto's kunnen worden ingebouwd, al dan niet door de fabrikant van de auto, kun je nog veel meer doen. Denk aan bijv. automatisch aan elkaar doorgeven van acceleratie/deaccelaratie waar je weer ongelukken mee kan voorkommen als de auto hier zelf op reageerd. Er is vast nog veel meer te bedenken m.b.t. informatie die draadloos doorgestuurd wordt tussen auto's. Uiteraard zou ik dus gewoon een navigatie systeem en eventueel logging systeem willen bouwen om te beginnen. Eventueel met Hotspot/MeSH functionaliteit zodat er op meer plaatsen gratis internet beschikbaar is. Overigens met een UMTS en/of WiMax module kun je gemakkelijk internet punten creëren. Op het moment is het wachten totdat het development team (met veel leden van OpenWRT) met een nieuwe firmware komen (2 tot 4 weken) Waar ook een SDK en heel veel plugins voor de firmware bijgeleverd zullen worden. Met deze plugins is het dus mogelijk om software te maken die een GPS aanspreekt, ze hebben al plugins om een Scanner, Printer, Webcam, Memmory Stick/Externe HD aan te spreken. En ze zijn al bezig met UMTS, een plugin voor MeSH en nog veel meer. Al met al, lijkt het me een mooi en goedkoop platform (40 euro) om eventueel in de toekomst doe het zelf navigatie systemen te bouwen. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: maandag 20 oktober 2008 15:17 Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform Robin Harmsen wrote: Momenteel is de Fonera 2.0 officieel nog niet beschikbaar in nederland, maar als er intresse is om hier iets mee te doen, is het vast mogelijk een of meerdere fonera's te krijgen van FON. Zou FON er blij van worden als ze Fonera's maken en die niet als WiFi router worden gebruikt? Ik moet zeggen dat je (natuurlijk heel ambitieus) kunt zeggen dat je een mesh netwerk van Fonera's op de snelweg wilt bouwen, maar of Fonera dat een tof idee vindt weet ik niet ;) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Hallo, Sinds kort is FON met de Fonera 2.0 gekomen (momenteel in beta en alleen voor ontwikkelaars) De Fonera 2.0 is ontwikkeld als Linux wifi-router, echter heeft de Fonera ook een USB poort welke voor allerlei taken gebruikt kan worden. Het voordeel van dit platform is dat het open is en iedereen hier software voor kan maken. Misschien is het leuk als we met dit platform een GPS systeem kunnen bouwen (voor in een auto bijv.) Denk hierbij aan de volgende mogelijke functies: 1. GPS logger, zodat je hiermee later kaarten kunt maken. Alleen een GPS dongle en memmory stick nodig 2. GPS Navigatie, zodat je hem als goedkope autonavigatie kunt gebruiken GPS dongle, memmort stick, USB Video kaartje+schempje en eventueel USB Geluidskaart nodig. 3. Soort van Traphic HD, zodat ook files automatisch kunnen worden gedetecteerd Via wifi of UMTS Dongle kunnen gegevens uitgewisseld worden Momenteel is de Fonera 2.0 officieel nog niet beschikbaar in nederland, maar als er intresse is om hier iets mee te doen, is het vast mogelijk een of meerdere fonera's te krijgen van FON. Zelf heb ik er eentje gekregen om mee te spelen, bugs te vinden en eventueel voor te ontwikkelen, ik heb echter niet zo veel kennis van GPS systemen om zoiets 'even' te doen, tevens heb ik de overige hardware niet tot mijn beschikking. Meer informatie over de Fonera 2.0 http://wiki.fon.com/wiki/La_Fonera_2.0 Meet informatie over de Software ontwikkeling: http://fonosfera.org/ Met vriendelijke groet, ing Robin Harmsen___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Robin Harmsen wrote: Het is dus zo dat FON zijn hele filosofie heeft omgegooid. Dat wist ik niet :) Als er een goede MeSHing standaard komt en deze wordt ook toegepast in andere producten die in auto's kunnen worden ingebouwd, al dan niet door de fabrikant van de auto, kun je nog veel meer doen. De OLPC Meshing standaard zit nu in de standaard Linux kernel. Dus het zou wel extreem hot zijn om daar eens mee te kunnen experimenteren als onderzoek project tussen auto's. Op het moment is het wachten totdat het development team (met veel leden van OpenWRT) met een nieuwe firmware komen (2 tot 4 weken) Waar ook een SDK en heel veel plugins voor de firmware bijgeleverd zullen worden. Een mooie toolchain maken kan iedereen ;) Als het 40 euri kost, kun je me dan eens in contact brengen met FON voor 3 of 4 van die kastjes? Vooropgesteld dat ze gemakkelijk om te bouwen zijn naar 12V / batterijen. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Ik denk dat als we een klein voostel/idee opstellen er wel een paar gedoneerd kunnen krijgen om mee te spelen/ontwikkelen. Het ombouwen naar batterijen is al eens gedaan voor een oudere Fonera (zonder USB poort), maar dat moet best te doen zijn. Ik zal als ik morgen thuis ben eens kijken naar wat de spanning van deze adapter is, maar ik gok dat dat het zelfde is. Battery pack: http://fonerahacks.com/index.php/Tutorials-and-Guides/Battery-Pack.html -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: maandag 20 oktober 2008 16:41 Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform Robin Harmsen wrote: Het is dus zo dat FON zijn hele filosofie heeft omgegooid. Dat wist ik niet :) Als er een goede MeSHing standaard komt en deze wordt ook toegepast in andere producten die in auto's kunnen worden ingebouwd, al dan niet door de fabrikant van de auto, kun je nog veel meer doen. De OLPC Meshing standaard zit nu in de standaard Linux kernel. Dus het zou wel extreem hot zijn om daar eens mee te kunnen experimenteren als onderzoek project tussen auto's. Op het moment is het wachten totdat het development team (met veel leden van OpenWRT) met een nieuwe firmware komen (2 tot 4 weken) Waar ook een SDK en heel veel plugins voor de firmware bijgeleverd zullen worden. Een mooie toolchain maken kan iedereen ;) Als het 40 euri kost, kun je me dan eens in contact brengen met FON voor 3 of 4 van die kastjes? Vooropgesteld dat ze gemakkelijk om te bouwen zijn naar 12V / batterijen. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Even een quote van het IRC kannaal van FON. (ik doe niet mee in het gesprek overigens) Blogic is de hoofd developer van FON, en volgens mij is kazwo ook geinteresseerd in GPS/OSM gebruik Ze hebben volgens mij duidelijk intresse in allerlei toepassingen met de Fonera 2. [19:06] kazwo how much energy consuming the new fon2 on fullload? [19:07] @blogic kazwo: no idea :) ... Tijdje stil [19:56] kazwo 5.10v / ~500mA @ bootup without anything connected - ~2.55w [19:59] @blogic ok [19:59] @blogic is wifi on at that point ? [20:01] kazwo yes [20:01] kazwo 500mA is the peak @ bootup [20:04] @blogic ok [20:06] kazwo need some cables for testing, now its looks very hmmm insecure ^^ [20:07] @blogic hehe [20:10] freechelmi OSM 's back . [20:10] kazwo thx .. omw maping :P [20:12] @blogic hmm [20:12] @blogic what would a gps addon need ? [20:12] @blogic i mean, how do the osm guys collect data ? [20:12] @blogic might have to buy a gps module the next few days :) [20:12] kazwo just a gpx export [20:13] kazwo maybe a webinterface to add waypoints [20:15] @blogic s the thing just logs, timestamp + position [20:15] @blogic that is it [20:17] kazwo yes, than upload it to osm (html form) and use it in the mapping software -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: maandag 20 oktober 2008 16:41 Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform Robin Harmsen wrote: Het is dus zo dat FON zijn hele filosofie heeft omgegooid. Dat wist ik niet :) Als er een goede MeSHing standaard komt en deze wordt ook toegepast in andere producten die in auto's kunnen worden ingebouwd, al dan niet door de fabrikant van de auto, kun je nog veel meer doen. De OLPC Meshing standaard zit nu in de standaard Linux kernel. Dus het zou wel extreem hot zijn om daar eens mee te kunnen experimenteren als onderzoek project tussen auto's. Op het moment is het wachten totdat het development team (met veel leden van OpenWRT) met een nieuwe firmware komen (2 tot 4 weken) Waar ook een SDK en heel veel plugins voor de firmware bijgeleverd zullen worden. Een mooie toolchain maken kan iedereen ;) Als het 40 euri kost, kun je me dan eens in contact brengen met FON voor 3 of 4 van die kastjes? Vooropgesteld dat ze gemakkelijk om te bouwen zijn naar 12V / batterijen. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform
Dit is zeker interessant! Aan het aantal MHz te zien moet het geen probleem zijn om te loggen met een externe logger. Enige probleem zou kunnen zijn de ruimte die de log filetjes in beslag nemen. Maar een beetje usbstick kost ook niks meer tegenwoordig. Iets anders wat erg interessant is is als een GPS aan een fon hot spot is gekoppeld dat we een protocol ontwikkelen wat met een web-service verbinding maakt of zo zodat we op OSM een hele fonera kaart kunnen bijhouden. Andere kant van dit protocol zou zijn dat iemand verbinding kan maken met een fonera spot en dan kan opvragen waar hij nu is. Dan kan je beetje location based services doen. Verder zou je zo ook erg leuke statistieken kunnen verzamelen. Als er mensen zijn die mobiel internet abonnement hebben kunnen die gegevens verzamelen van alles om zich heen. En dat doorsturen. Om tom tom te verslaan met hun HD traffic spul :P Voordeel hiervan is dat je informatie kan toevoegen als gemiddelde snelheid over de laatste x min. Al met al dus lijkt me dit ook wel erg interessant. --Roeland On Monday 20 October 2008 17:07:07 Robin Harmsen wrote: Ik denk dat als we een klein voostel/idee opstellen er wel een paar gedoneerd kunnen krijgen om mee te spelen/ontwikkelen. Het ombouwen naar batterijen is al eens gedaan voor een oudere Fonera (zonder USB poort), maar dat moet best te doen zijn. Ik zal als ik morgen thuis ben eens kijken naar wat de spanning van deze adapter is, maar ik gok dat dat het zelfde is. Battery pack: http://fonerahacks.com/index.php/Tutorials-and-Guides/Battery- Pack.html -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-nl- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: maandag 20 oktober 2008 16:41 Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hardware platform Robin Harmsen wrote: Het is dus zo dat FON zijn hele filosofie heeft omgegooid. Dat wist ik niet :) Als er een goede MeSHing standaard komt en deze wordt ook toegepast in andere producten die in auto's kunnen worden ingebouwd, al dan niet door de fabrikant van de auto, kun je nog veel meer doen. De OLPC Meshing standaard zit nu in de standaard Linux kernel. Dus het zou wel extreem hot zijn om daar eens mee te kunnen experimenteren als onderzoek project tussen auto's. Op het moment is het wachten totdat het development team (met veel leden van OpenWRT) met een nieuwe firmware komen (2 tot 4 weken) Waar ook een SDK en heel veel plugins voor de firmware bijgeleverd zullen worden. Een mooie toolchain maken kan iedereen ;) Als het 40 euri kost, kun je me dan eens in contact brengen met FON voor 3 of 4 van die kastjes? Vooropgesteld dat ze gemakkelijk om te bouwen zijn naar 12V / batterijen. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] How to extract street names from OSM data
You could use OSMXapi http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxap something like: http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/[bbox=left, bottom,right,top]way[highway=*] David - Original Message - From: Paul Zagoridis To: Talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: [talk-au] How to extract street names from OSM data Can I use the API or some other easy way to extract a subset of OSM data? Specifically I want to get a list of street names in Sydney Metro to double check addresses in a database. Suggestions? Regards Paul -- Paul Zagoridis email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] blog: http://wealthesteem.org Wealth is created between your ears personal blog: http://zagz.com mobile: +61 414 707 343 skype: paul.zagoridis -- Join me on your network of choice LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulzag Xing: http://www.xing.com/go/invite/3306344.2a5ab0 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul_Zagoridis/815205625 ecademy: http://www.ecademy.com/user/paulzagoridis -- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au image001.png___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to extract street names from OSM data
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM, David Groom [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: You could use OSMXapi http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmxap something like: http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/[bbox=lefthttp://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/%5Bbbox=left, bottom,right,top]way[highway=*] David Or even http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/wayhttp://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/%5Bbbox=lefthttp://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/%5Bbbox=left [bbox=left,bottom,right,top]http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/%5Bbbox=left [name=*] http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/%5Bbbox=left - Original Message - *From:* Paul Zagoridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Talk-au@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2008 10:21 AM *Subject:* [talk-au] How to extract street names from OSM data Can I use the API or some other easy way to extract a subset of OSM data? Specifically I want to get a list of street names in Sydney Metro to double check addresses in a database. Suggestions? Regards Paul -- Paul Zagoridis email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] blog: http://wealthesteem.org Wealth is created between your ears personal blog: http://zagz.com mobile: +61 414 707 343 skype: paul.zagoridis -- Join me on your network of choice LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulzag Xing: http://www.xing.com/go/invite/3306344.2a5ab0 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul_Zagoridis/815205625 ecademy: http://www.ecademy.com/user/paulzagoridis -- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au image001.png___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Road numbers in Garmin
[Some time ago I sent a similar email from a different email address and I think it never made it to the group] In a recent trip I was comparing Shonkymaps and OSM on my Garmin GPSr and I saw that Shonkymaps displays a floating icon with the road number for major roads. I thought this was cool, and easier to read the road numbers. Here'e a screen-shot from the Shonkymaps site: http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/images/SANY1373.JPG Does anybody know if this can be done with OSM as well? I looked at the documentation on how to render OSM in Garmin but didn't see anything about road numbers. Diego -- This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of Macquarie University. - Diego MOLLA ALIOD [EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Computing http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~diego Macquarie University ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Edits in and around Mt Barker, SA
2008/10/21 Kim Hawtin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Are the rail and road under passes right? I have set them as tunnels, because it makes more sense than the freeway being a bridge, how ever what do other folks use? Without actually looking at what you've done - I've done both. If the underpass really does feel like a tunnel, then I've used that, even if it is actually at the surrounding ground level, and the highway's on an embankment. There are some cases where a bridge for the highway is a better description, though. Also - if you have roads crossing at only a small angle, a bridge shows up better on most renderers than a tunnel does. We're not supposed to map for the renderer, but if it could go either way anyway, you might want to keep this in mind. - I've put in a few round'a'bouts ... they are messy critters. is it the right thing to draw them out with little link roads or should they be put up as where the roads intersect with the joining node and tag that node as a round about? especially larger ones, like the end of Gawler street near the bus interchange? We discussed this on this list a while back - and decided that we don't actually have many (any?) of the paint only roundabouts in Australia that are quite common in the UK and are tagged as mini_roundabouts. So we would use that tag for any roundabout where the central island fits inside the road intersection. This would cover most suburban roundabouts. Just connect the roads at a central node, tag the node mini_roundabout. Don't forget to add the direction=clockwise tag. Any bigger roundabout you actually draw a circle (at least four points), mark it as junction=roundabout, and make sure the way goes clockwise, because it will be oneway. Then connect the roads to the roundabout. The following link has pictures. And you're right, they are painful and messy. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:junction%3Droundabout - My edits seem to be taking around two weeks to hit the OSM normal map ... isn't this normally happening weekly? They get new data for the renderer weekly, but then they actually have to process the data to form maps, which takes a while. This also explains why sometimes you see a mix of old and new data where one tile has been rendered, but the one beside hasn't been updated yet. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] Fahrradroute über einen Platz
Tordanik: Bernd Wurst schrieb: Entweder ein geeigneter Weg lässt sich algorithmisch finden oder nicht. Ich finde es ist möglich, also muss man keine Fake-Lösungen einbauen. Nebenbei: Hat das schon mal jemand algorithmisch gemacht? Ein paar Schwierigkeiten, die ich sehe, sind: Dafür gibt es gängige algorithmische Verfahren in der Computergraphik. Das ist nicht kompliziert, da es sich nur um Polygone im R² handelt. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
2008/10/20 Simon Kokolakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dominik Spies schrieb: Wo fängt denn deine Fläche an? Genau da, wo die Straße aufhört, davon gehe ich jetzt aus. Alles andere lasse ich außen vor. Und da die Straße dort aufhört, wo sie anfängt (in der Breite, in unserem Datenmodel) muss auch die Flächengrenze mit der Straße überinstimmen. Das muss ja nicht heißen: Fläche beginnt in der Mitte der Straße, sondern kann heißen: Fläche beginnt da, wo die Straße aufhört. Alles Definitionsache! Spätestens dort wo eine Straße übergeht in größere Kreuzungsbereiche, größere befahrbare/begehbare Flächen wie Marktplätze, Wendeplatten etc wird man Probleme bekommen. Wieso? Diese größeren befahrbaren/begehbaren Flächen wird man ja entsprechend mit area=yes als Fläche mappen. Und daran angrenzend wiederrum andere Flächen (landuse=residential, z.B.). Ich sage nicht dass eine Fläche IMMER direkt auf der Straße liegen soll. Ich sage nur es gibt viele Fälle, da ist das durchaus sehr sinnvoll! Gruß, Dominik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Osmarender: Tiles gelöscht?
Rotbarsch schrieb: Hallo! Nach meinem Renderin-Request von gestern abend ist meine Umgebung von der Karte verschwunden: http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.42250680423574lon=7.0544353171987035zoom=13layers=BF000F Leider scheine ich nicht das einzige Opfer zu sein. In Oberhausen und Bochum sehe ich auch weiße Flecken... Etwas ratlose Grüße Bekannter bug im [EMAIL PROTECTED] client, schwer zu reproduzieren. Manuell erneut zum Rendern anfordern auf informationfreeway.org zoom 12. Details auf der tilesathome liste (englisch) -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Bitte sinnvoll zitieren (was: Flä chen auf die Straße ziehen?)
Dominik Spies schrieb: Hallo Leute, sehe ich gar nicht so. Hallo Leute! Was hier wer wie sieht könnte ich viel leichter verstehen, wenn ihr so freundlich wärt, aus dem Artikel, auf den ihr antwortet, die relevanten Teile zu zitieren, und eure Erwiderung unter die jeweiligen Sätze zu schreiben. Zwar gibt es 'Referenzen', die ich anklicken kann, aber nicht immer ist das Gesuchte auch abrufbar. Danke. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mit Helge und dem Bodensee-Peter Afrika mappen
Mario Salvini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: als was würde man eigenltich die Slums eintragen? landuse=residential + highway=track/footway Als alloments? Wohl kaum. Sven -- We don't know the OS that God uses, but the Vatican uses Linux (Sister Judith Zoebelein, Vatican Webmaster) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beriechsmarkierungen in JOSM
André Reichelt schrieb: Mich stört es schon länger, dass immer diese gelben Kästen um geladene Bereiche erscheinen. Dabei finde ich die Kästen an sich überhaupt nicht schlimm, jedoch die Art, wie sie gezeichnet werden. Könnte man das nicht so lösen, das wirklich nur der äußerste Rand gezeichnet wird? Die Überschneidungen sind wirklich störend. Schalte sie doch einfach ab in den Einstellungen. Zeichne Grenzen der geladenen Daten GeoJ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Tim Krüger schrieb: Mal ganz davon abgesehen das ich das Blitzen in der gerenderten Karte nicht schön finde, bin ich der Meinung das die Flächen auf die Straßen gezogen werden sollten (also auch auf die gleichen Nodes) um einen sauberen Datenbestand zu erhalten. So sieht es auch z.B. das neue Datenmodell ALKIS der Kataster- und Vermessungsämter in Deutschland vor. Wie steht ihr dazu? Sollte ich diese Anpassung machen? Lieber nicht. Aufeinanderliegende Strecken lassen sich mit den bestehenden Editoren nur schwer bearbeiten. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Hallo Rainer, Rainer Knaepper schrieb: Verbauen wir uns dadurch nicht die Möglichkeit, irgendwann Straßen /doch/ als Fläche aufzunehmen? meiner Ansicht nach nicht, aber das kommt darauf an, wie gut zukünftige Editoren programmiert sind. In CAD- und GIS-Anwendungen verschneidest Du einfach die neu hinzugefügte Fläche mit der vorhandenen Grünfläche und schon hast Du es so, wie Du es willst. Vorteil: Du musst nur eine der beiden Flächen genau ausmessen, der Rest ist Mathematik. Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
Hallo Leute, gibt es hier oder im Wiki schon erste Skizzierungen, wie man Straßen als Flächen mappen könnte? Grüße Tobias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
2008/10/20, Tobias Wendorff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hallo Leute, gibt es hier oder im Wiki schon erste Skizzierungen, wie man Straßen als Flächen mappen könnte? Bisher haben wir nur http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:width bzw http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:lanes ich sehe bisher nicht, daß mehr als das width-Tag nötig sind um eine Straße als Fläche zu erfassen. Hat jemand Interesse an der Zentimeter-genauen Erfassung der Rundungen an Kreuzngen? Das wäre das Einzige, was mir einfällt wo dieses Tag nicht ausreicht. Marcus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
Marcus Wolschon schrieb: ich sehe bisher nicht, daß mehr als das width-Tag nötig sind um eine Straße als Fläche zu erfassen. Nunja, neben der Straße sind dann noch so Informationen, wie Bürgersteige etc. Hat jemand Interesse an der Zentimeter-genauen Erfassung der Rundungen an Kreuzngen? Das wäre das Einzige, was mir einfällt wo dieses Tag nicht ausreicht. Der durchschnittliche OSM-Nutzer vielleicht nicht, aber wieso den Inhalt der Datenbank restriktieren? Wir mappen nicht für $x ($x = random, without 'Datenbank'); ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mit Helge und dem Bodensee-Peter Afrika mappen
Tim 'avatar' Bartel schrieb: Hi, ich bin eben über dieses Blogposting gestolpert: http://www.bodenseepeter.de/2008/10/16/lets-map-africa/ ...und könnte mir vorstellen, dass der ein oder andere Interesse daran hat, Helge [1] und dem Bodensee-Peter zu helfen. [1] http://www.helge.at/2008/10/der-erste-sein-der-eine-millionenstadt-kartografiert/ Tschüss, Tim. als was würde man eigenltich die Slums eintragen? Als alloments? (soll kein witz sein, sondern is ernst gemeint) Gruß Mario ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Ich finde man sollte die Flächen nicht mit den Straßen verbinden, denn das würde ja bedeuten dass die Flächen sich berühren. Dies tun sie aber nicht, da eine endlich breite Straße dazwischen ist. Wenn man es sauber machen wöllte, müsste man die Straße ebenfalls als Fläche zeichnen. Diese dürfte dann direkt mit den angrenzenden Flächen verbunden werden. Die Straßen so wie wir sie im Moment noch eingeben sind unendlich dünn, und stellen eigenlich eine reine Routing-Verbindung dar. Das Einzeichnen als Fläche macht nur der Renderer, da er nix besseres hat, worauf er zurückgreifen kann. Der width-tag wird ja kaum benutzt, und ist meiner Meinung nach auch nur eine Notlösung. Genau das sehe ich anders. Eine Straße ist eine linienhaftes Objekt. Daher sollte es auch als Linie erfasst werden. An eine Straße gehört meiner Meinung nach noch, wenn man es genau machen will, das Tag width. Darüber wird dann klar das diese Straße ein Breite hat. Dies kann bei allen Interpretationen z.B. Flächenberechnungen brücksichtigt werden. Genauso wird es auch in vielen GIS Datenmodellen angewandt und hat sich in der Praxis bewährt. Außerden wird es schwierig eine 5m Breite Straße mit einem GPS Empfänger, mit 5m Genauigkeit, als Fläche zu erfassen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schranke taggen
Stefan Neufeind schrieb: Desweiteren stellt sich mir die Frage, wie wir denn Schranken einzeichnen die standardmäßig geöffnet (!) sind. Das sollte doch eigentlich erstmal keinen Unterschied machen. Fuer den Einzelnen ist es ja egal, ob er wie ueblich vor einer geschlossenen Schranke steht, oder ob das eine Ausnahmen. Grundsaetzlich gilt da doch erstmnal: Man muss damit rechnen, dass man da nicht durch kommt. Die eigentlich Frage ist: Wie traegt man es ein, wenn es feste Regeln gibt, wann die Schranke offen oder geschlossen ist? Als Antwort bieten sich die access-tags ein. Denn letztendlich ist es ja egal, ob ein Verbot nur von einem Schild vorgegeben oder aber von einer Schranke erzwungen wird. Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-mapstyle Transparenz
das ist seit Version 1011 so: (edit)@1011 [1011] 10/01/08 23:07:02 ce modified a lot of icons, mainly transparent backgrounds, but also changed pixels for improved readability. To achieve that, I copied some icons over from mappaint and added transparent backgrounds. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] is_in validation
Hi, hat sich jemand schonmal die muehe gemacht ein validator fuer is_in's auf den places zu bauen? Ich habe da in den letzten Tagen mal so einiges geradegezogen oder ueberhaupt mal eingetragen und muss sagen das mir nicht klar ist wie das sauber funktionieren soll. Ich denke der validator koennte zumindest mal testen ob alle elemente des is_in ueberhaupt existieren. Die frage ist dann wie man die Hierarchie auch validieren kann d.h. duerfen suburbs is_in suburb sein? Und wie ist anhand des is_in klar das wenn ein Regierungsbezirk so heisst wie die Stadt der suburb nicht bestandteil dieser Stadt sondern nur des Regierungsbezirkes ist? Und wie soll das gehen mit Staedten die identische namen haben? Also Neuenkirchens und Langenbergs gibts jetzt mal mehrere auch mit unterschiedlichen hierarchieebenen. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Moin Birgit, Tim Krüger schrieb: Mal ganz davon abgesehen das ich das Blitzen in der gerenderten Karte nicht schön finde, bin ich der Meinung das die Flächen auf die Straßen gezogen werden sollten (also auch auf die gleichen Nodes) um einen sauberen Datenbestand zu erhalten. So sieht es auch z.B. das neue Datenmodell ALKIS der Kataster- und Vermessungsämter in Deutschland vor. Wie steht ihr dazu? Sollte ich diese Anpassung machen? Lieber nicht. Aufeinanderliegende Strecken lassen sich mit den bestehenden Editoren nur schwer bearbeiten. Ist das bei den anderen auch so umständlich wie im potlatch? Rainer -- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] link=yes
Dominik Spies schrieb: Hallo, irgenwann hat mir das mal jemand auf der Liste genannt, da es ja kein secondary_link gibt und ich den tatsächlich gebraucht hätte. Auch auf der Discussion-Seite der Map Features wird es erwähnt. Grundsätzlich wäre link aber auch bei jeglich Ein- und Ausfahrten die sich gabeln sinnvoll, und dass kann auch mal bei einer normalen residential oder unclassified sein. Für die Bypässe an Kreiseln passt es auch gut... Also: zum einen finde ich es vom Datenmodell her besser (wir machen ja auch kein highway=track_1 , track_2 usw) und zweitens wäre dann auch secondray, tertiray usw alles abgedeckt. Was haltet ihr davon? Zweifellos die bessere Lösung... Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mit Helge und dem Bodensee-Peter Afrika mappen
Hi Mario, als was würde man eigenltich die Slums eintragen? Als alloments? Ein alotment ist ein Kleingarten im Verein. Also das ziemlich genaue Gegenteil eines Slums. -- Ciao, Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100, GRR#51) 90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm 95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 69 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!) cu @ http://www.issle.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Tim Krüger schrieb: Genauso wird es auch in vielen GIS Datenmodellen angewandt und hat sich in der Praxis bewährt. Außerden wird es schwierig eine 5m Breite Straße mit einem GPS Empfänger, mit 5m Genauigkeit, als Fläche zu erfassen. Analog dazu musst Du aber auch sagen, dass es schwierig wird, immer genau die Mitte der 5 m breiten Straße zu erfassen :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] osmdiff reports NEU
Hallo und guten Abend, nach erfolgreicher Migration meiner Kiste auf Linux gibt es nun wieder neue osmdiff Reports: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmdiff_reports Neu dabei: Mashhad :-) und Göttingen Interessant auch Ouagadougou, wo es ordentlich weitergeht: http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/diff/gen0/ov_ouagadougou.htm Ach ja. Für Leute mit großen Bildschirmen: http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/diff/osmdiff_hessen_example.png Viel Spaß beim Ansehen! Gary68 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Analog dazu musst Du aber auch sagen, dass es schwierig wird, immer genau die Mitte der 5 m breiten Straße zu erfassen :-) Aber du nimmst ja das Mittel an um die Mittellinie der Straße zu ziehen. Man könnst also sagen das eine ausgleichende Gerade gezogen wird. Nimmst du die Fläche, erwischt du nur die Maxi- bzw. Minimalwerte. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Rainer Knaepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: 20.10.08 20:52:08 An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen? Lieber nicht. Aufeinanderliegende Strecken lassen sich mit den bestehenden Editoren nur schwer bearbeiten. Ist das bei den anderen auch so umständlich wie im potlatch? Hallo, eigentlich nicht, mit Josm und den richtigen Tipps hier aus der Liste funktioniert es eigentlich ganz einfach. Seit ich weiß wie man damit umgeht ziehe ich meine Flächen auch auf die Strasse. Schöne Grüße Thomas __ Run, Fatboy, Run sowie Rails Ties kostenlos anschauen! Blockbuster-Gutscheine sichern unter http://www.blockbuster.web.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
2008/10/20 Tobias Wendorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hallo Leute, gibt es hier oder im Wiki schon erste Skizzierungen, wie man Straßen als Flächen mappen könnte? Grüße Tobias highway=xy, area=yes ist eigentlich am naheliegendsten. Am besten macht man das zusätzlich zum Linien-Graphen, weil der fürs Routen quasi unverzichtbar ist ;-). Die Daten misst man entweder selbst auf, oder kauft sie direkt bei den amtlichen Vermessungsämtern in kompatibler Lizenz. Realistisch für die ganze Welt? Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] is_in validation
Am 20. Oktober 2008 19:58 schrieb Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, hat sich jemand schonmal die muehe gemacht ein validator fuer is_in's auf den places zu bauen? Ich habe da in den letzten Tagen mal so einiges geradegezogen oder ueberhaupt mal eingetragen und muss sagen das mir nicht klar ist wie das sauber funktionieren soll. Ich denke der validator koennte zumindest mal testen ob alle elemente des is_in ueberhaupt existieren. Die frage ist dann wie man die Hierarchie auch validieren kann d.h. duerfen suburbs is_in suburb sein? Und wie ist anhand des is_in klar das wenn ein Regierungsbezirk so heisst wie die Stadt der suburb nicht bestandteil dieser Stadt sondern nur des Regierungsbezirkes ist? Und wie soll das gehen mit Staedten die identische namen haben? Also Neuenkirchens und Langenbergs gibts jetzt mal mehrere auch mit unterschiedlichen hierarchieebenen. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little ich dachte, is_in ist tot, d.h. sollte nicht mehr verwendet werden, da redundante Daten, und die Probleme, für die es gedacht ist, kann man anscheinend besser mit Grenzpolygonen lösen... Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-mapstyle Transparenz
2008/10/20 Michael Rathai [EMAIL PROTECTED] das ist seit Version 1011 so: (edit)@1011 [1011] 10/01/08 23:07:02 ce modified a lot of icons, mainly transparent backgrounds, but also changed pixels for improved readability. To achieve that, I copied some icons over from mappaint and added transparent backgrounds. ja, allerdings trifft das mit der improved readability für die Icons nicht zu, die nur oder vor allem mit schwarz arbeiten, und wenn gleichzeitig noch kein Hintergrund (Park, Landuse, etc.) vorhanden ist. In diesem Fall sind die Icons nicht mehr lesbar. Lösung1: zusätzlich weissen Umriss, Lösung2: statt schwarz weiss oder grau verwenden. Lösung3: Die Transparenz bei diesen Icons wieder rückgängig machen. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
Marcus Wolschon schrieb: Hat jemand Interesse an der Zentimeter-genauen Erfassung der Rundungen an Kreuzngen? Das wäre das Einzige, was mir einfällt wo dieses Tag nicht ausreicht. es gibt zb Karten für Blinde bzw navigationsgreäte (mit Vibration oder so), dies brauchen (glaub ich) dezimeter genaue Karten. außerdem währe ein Möglichkeit für Vermessungsämter oder lanschaftsarchitekten, das was sie haben genau auf die karte zu übertragen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Nearby Users
John07 schrieb: Hallo, wir planen hier in Würzburg demnächst wieder ein Treffen. Um möglichst alle Nutzer hier im Umkreis zu erreichen, haben wir sie bis jetzt immer per Webinterface angeschrieben. Allerdings ist dies sehr mühsam geworden, da es hier im Umkreis mittlerweile ca. 30 Nutzer gibt, es werden mir aber nur die 1. 10 angezeigt. Um an mehr Nutzer zu kommen muss ich meine Homelocation verschieben. Ich denke, dass kann nicht Sinn der Sache sein und behindert nur die Arbeit für OSM. Gibt es irgendwelche Einwände von euch, die dagegen sprechen, die Anzahl der angezeigten Nutzer zu erhöhen, am besten finde ich (wie es früher schon einmal war) das einfach alle Nutzer im Umkreis von 50 km angezeigt werden (nur auf der Karte, keine Liste unten, da diese zu lang würde). Alternativ könnte man auch bei den 10 Nutzern bleiben und stattdessen einen mehr Nutzer Button machen oder den Radius manuell einstellbar machen. Allerdings würde das dann meine Ruby-Kenntnisse bei weitem übersteigen, so dass jemand anderes das einbauen müsste. Lediglich eine Erhöhung auf 20 oder 30 Nutzer halte ich für keine gute Lösung, da die Nutzerzahl von OSM ja noch stark ansteigt und dies bestimmt auch bald wieder zu wenig werden würde. Also, eure Meinungen bitte. Gruß Jonas Hallo Jonas, ich habe nichts mehr von Deinem Anliegen gehört. Wie errecihen wir mehr? Gruß Jürgen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen auf die Straße ziehen?
Tobias Wendorff schrieb: Tim Krüger schrieb: Genauso wird es auch in vielen GIS Datenmodellen angewandt und hat sich in der Praxis bewährt. Außerden wird es schwierig eine 5m Breite Straße mit einem GPS Empfänger, mit 5m Genauigkeit, als Fläche zu erfassen. Analog dazu musst Du aber auch sagen, dass es schwierig wird, immer genau die Mitte der 5 m breiten Straße zu erfassen :-) Das ist eben der Unterschied - navigieren kannst Du auch noch mit 20m Abweichung von der Mittellinie - die Daten bleinben brauchbar. Wenn Du aber Flächen erfasst dann kannst Du niemals beide Strassenseiten gleichzeitig mit dem gleichen Empfänger unter gleichen Empfangsbedingungen aufzeichnen. D.h. Du hast zwei Schlangenlinien die sich nicht selten auch überschneiden (-negative Strassenflächen).. So hast Du erheblich mehr Aufwand sowohl beim erfassen als auch beim Anwenden für Daten die Dir letztenendes nicht mehr Informationen geben. Selbst wenn Du jetzt ein hochgenaues System hättest würde das für OSM nichts bringen - Die Masse kann sowas vorerst nicht haben und macht Dir Deine Genauigkeit beim weitereditieren wieder kaputt - oder wird ausgeschlossen... Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
RalfGesellensetter schrieb: Am Montag 20 Oktober 2008 schrieb Marcus Wolschon: Hat jemand Interesse an der Zentimeter-genauen Erfassung der Rundungen an Kreuzngen? Das wäre das Einzige, was mir einfällt wo dieses Tag nicht ausreicht. Vielleicht überall da, wo es um Trassen geht, deren (versiegelte) Fläche im Zuge der Raumplanung errechnet werden soll. Wie ist das bei Bahntrassen? Das macht nur bei Flächenausdehnungen Sinn die viel grösser als 5m sind - z.B, ein Bahnhof mit 5Gleisen, aber nicht für Einzelgleise - das gibt die GPS-Konsumertechnik heute einfach nicht her, was Voraussetzung für OSM-tauglichkeit wäre. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Straßen als Flächen
Josias schrieb: Marcus Wolschon schrieb: Hat jemand Interesse an der Zentimeter-genauen Erfassung der Rundungen an Kreuzngen? Das wäre das Einzige, was mir einfällt wo dieses Tag nicht ausreicht. es gibt zb Karten für Blinde bzw navigationsgreäte (mit Vibration oder so), dies brauchen (glaub ich) dezimeter genaue Karten. Hast Du was gegen Blinde dass Du sie mit OSM-Daten losschicken willst? außerdem währe ein Möglichkeit für Vermessungsämter oder lanschaftsarchitekten, das was sie haben genau auf die karte zu übertragen Warum sollten sie das tun? Die wollen Geld mit ihrer Arbeit verdienen und nicht sie verschenken... Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] domanda su amenity=place of worship
Carlo Stemberger wrote: Ho provato a dare un'occhiata alla situazione attuale, ma non è che ci abbia capito molto... Ad esempio a Milano c'è un edificio così taggato: amenity=place_of_worship -- ok denomination=Ashkenazi -- che significa? o è fuori standard o bisogna corregere il wiki, in quanto lì non è previsto name=Beit Shlomo -- di nuovo... che significa? religion=jewish -- ok Sono Sinagoghe, luoghi di culto ebraici l'ebraismo si divide in 2 grosse correnti: Ashkenaziti e Sefarditi (europa dell'est e bacino del mediterraneo) Denominarion descrive la corrente quindi se la religion è christian la denomination può essere catholic, evangelic, baptist etc etc.. name=Beit Slomo è semplicemente il nome del tempio... se il duomo di milano si chiama Sant'agnese (sparo a caso) la sinagoga si chiama Beit Shlomo (che significa, per inciso, Casa di Salomone) Edo -- Edoardo Marascalchi ICT Consultant Tel +39.347.008.00.02 website: http://www.edoardomarascalchi.it skype: My status skype:asca_edom?call ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] domanda su amenity=place of worship
Edoardo Marascalchi ha scritto: Carlo Stemberger wrote: Ho provato a dare un'occhiata alla situazione attuale, ma non è che ci abbia capito molto... Ad esempio a Milano c'è un edificio così taggato: amenity=place_of_worship -- ok denomination=Ashkenazi -- che significa? o è fuori standard o bisogna corregere il wiki, in quanto lì non è previsto name=Beit Shlomo -- di nuovo... che significa? religion=jewish -- ok Sono Sinagoghe, luoghi di culto ebraici l'ebraismo si divide in 2 grosse correnti: Ashkenaziti e Sefarditi (europa dell'est e bacino del mediterraneo) Chiaro. Allora direi che il wiki è da integrare (in inglese). Ci pensi tu? name=Beit Slomo è semplicemente il nome del tempio... se il duomo di milano si chiama Sant'agnese (sparo a caso) la sinagoga si chiama Beit Shlomo (che significa, per inciso, Casa di Salomone) Ok. Allora mi sembra di capire che il caso in questione sia da cambiare, per adeguarsi alle ultime decisioni, in Sinagoga Beit Shlomo (o Sinagoga Casa di Salomone?)[1]. Magari sarebbe utile inserire l'esempio anche nel wiki. Di nuovo: ci pensi tu? :-) [1] così come bisogna fare per tutte le millemila chiese a cui bisogna aggiungere davanti Chiesa di ... che facciamo? Si riesce ad automatizzare in qualche modo? -- .' `. | Registered Linux User #443882 |a_a | | http://counter.li.org/ .''`. \_)__/ +--- : :' : /( )\ ---+ `. `'` |\` /\ Registered Debian User #9 | `- \_|=='|_/ http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ | ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] domanda su amenity=place of worship
Elena of Valhalla ha scritto: [...] e Cappella degli Scrovegni. name=Cappella degli Scrovegni alt_name:de=Arena-Kapelle si`, ma qui il nome ufficiale sembrerebbe essere Cappella di Santa Maria della Carità, e non e` un nome utile da far apparire sulle mappe Sono d'accordo. aggiungo un po' di carne al fuoco: come si indicano le chiese che fanno parrocchia? :-) A logica, viste le ultime decisioni (che non condivido...), bisognerebbe scrivere Chiesa parrocchiale dei Santi Faustino e Giovita. Andando di questo passo, nel tag name ci finisce tutto l'archivio parrocchiale :-D Torno a proporre la creazione di nuovi tag più specifici: mi sembra evidente che name sia del tutto inadeguato. puo` valere la pena di copiare il sistema dei confini amministrativi? Sì! OSM è o non è una mappa libera? Credo che un'informazione geografica di questo tipo sarebbe un grande valore aggiunto. Direi che sarebbe fantastico se si indicasse le diocesi (di Milano, ecc.), i decanati (di Vimercate, di Casatenovo, ecc., in genere sono 20-30 parrocchie) e le parrocchie. La tecnica dovrebbe essere del tutto analoga a quella per indicare i confini amministrativi civili[1]: diocesi --- tipo regioni decanati --- tipo province parrocchie --- tipo comuni Ovviamente i due sistemi sono totalmente incompatibili, quindi bisogna mantenerli ben distinti e indipendenti. esiste qualche fonte ufficiale per i confini delle parrocchie che potrebbe darci i dati? Potresti iniziare chiedendolo al tuo parroco. Lo farei io stesso, ma attualmente mi trovo a Parigi... interessano a qualcuno? A me :-) Buon lavoro! [1] A proposito: a che punto siamo? -- .' `. | Registered Linux User #443882 |a_a | | http://counter.li.org/ .''`. \_)__/ +--- : :' : /( )\ ---+ `. `'` |\` /\ Registered Debian User #9 | `- \_|=='|_/ http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ | ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] domanda su amenity=place of worship
Carlo Stemberger wrote: Edoardo Marascalchi ha scritto: Sono Sinagoghe, luoghi di culto ebraici l'ebraismo si divide in 2 grosse correnti: Ashkenaziti e Sefarditi (europa dell'est e bacino del mediterraneo) Chiaro. Allora direi che il wiki è da integrare (in inglese). Ci pensi tu? C'e' già nella discussione.. name=Beit Slomo è semplicemente il nome del tempio... se il duomo di milano si chiama Sant'agnese (sparo a caso) la sinagoga si chiama Beit Shlomo (che significa, per inciso, Casa di Salomone) Ok. Allora mi sembra di capire che il caso in questione sia da cambiare, per adeguarsi alle ultime decisioni, in Sinagoga Beit Shlomo (o Sinagoga Casa di Salomone?)[1]. Magari sarebbe utile inserire l'esempio anche nel wiki. Di nuovo: ci pensi tu? :-) Non serve.. non esiste una gerarchia delle sinagoghe.. sono tutte sinagoghe e basta.. :P -- Edoardo Marascalchi ICT Consultant Tel +39.347.008.00.02 website: http://www.edoardomarascalchi.it skype: My status skype:asca_edom?call ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] domanda su amenity=place of worship
Luigi Toscano ha scritto: Alle lunedì 20 ottobre 2008, Carlo Stemberger ha scritto: Elena of Valhalla ha scritto: [...] e Cappella degli Scrovegni. name=Cappella degli Scrovegni alt_name:de=Arena-Kapelle si`, ma qui il nome ufficiale sembrerebbe essere Cappella di Santa Maria della Carità, e non e` un nome utile da far apparire sulle mappe Sono d'accordo. Mhh... visto e considerato che anche il sito web indica Cappella degli Scrovegni, potrebbe andare al contrario: name=Cappella degli Scrovegni, Appunto, era quello che dicevo: il nome ufficiale è di quasi_nulla importanza. loc_name=Cappella di Santa Maria della Carità. Non mi sembra adatto: anche i locali conoscono solo la Cappella degli Scrovegni (almeno credo). Ci vuole un nuovo tag... :-) -- .' `. | Registered Linux User #443882 |a_a | | http://counter.li.org/ .''`. \_)__/ +--- : :' : /( )\ ---+ `. `'` |\` /\ Registered Debian User #9 | `- \_|=='|_/ http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ | ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
