Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[Glenn Plas]

rgh.  Crap(b)!  Staat er wel los in beschreven, maar was te lui om
de readme te lezen.  extract.py is het script dat we nodig hebben.

https://github.com/aptum/aptum.github.io/

My bad. We kunnen dit dus zelf doen.  Als iemand zich geroepen voelt dit
even te doen, ik kan toegang geven tot een fork van crab tool (
https://github.com/gplv2/aptum.github.io/ ) en dan steek ik ze daar in
voorlopig.

Zelf heb ik vandaag te weinig tijd over om het nog te doen.

Glenn


On 14-02-17 15:49, Glenn Plas wrote:
> De json files die hiervoor nodig zijn worden door Sander gegenereerd en
> die scripts/tools steken niet in de GIT repository (voor zover ik kan
> zien) -> https://github.com/aptum/aptum.github.io/
> 
> Af en toe doe ik eens een 'git pull' om ze bij te werken maar er is idd
> al een hele tijd geen update meer gebeurd op die repository.
> 
> Indien ik die tools wel had zou ik ze kunnen aanmaken natuurlijk, maar
> voor dat stukje hangen we af van Sander.  Je kan hem mss best direct
> contacteren hiervoor, als hij dat dan in git steekt, dan komt het er bij
> mij ook uit.
> 
> Glenn
> 
> On 14-02-17 15:38, joost schouppe wrote:
>> Ik zie dat de CRAB data die aan de basis ligt van die site (volgens de
>> site zelf) van november 2015 is. Ik vind het redelijk pijnlijk dat we
>> data van een jaar en een paar maand oud gebruiken, terwijl de bron
>> dagelijks bijgewerkt wordt. "Adressen veranderen niet zo vaak" (ahum,
>> tot je met die data eens aan de slag gaat), maar er zijn ondertussen
>> geweldig veel fouten rechtgezet in de bron. In Antwerpen heb ik er het
>> meeste zicht op natuurlijk, maar hier hebben we volgens mij minstens
>> 1000 adressen verbeterd sinds die tijd. De data begint pas het laatste
>> jaar écht gebruikt te worden binnen de administratie, dus ik vermoed dat
>> er nog meer plaatsen zijn waar de datakwaliteit veel beter is dan in de
>> dump van november 2015.
>>
>> (uiteraard doen we geen blinde import enzo, maar waarom zou je niet
>> gewoon de beste versie van de data gebruiken?)
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Joost Schouppe
>> OpenStreetMap
>>  | Twitter
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>>  | Meetup
>> 
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[Glenn Plas]

De json files die hiervoor nodig zijn worden door Sander gegenereerd en
die scripts/tools steken niet in de GIT repository (voor zover ik kan
zien) -> https://github.com/aptum/aptum.github.io/

Af en toe doe ik eens een 'git pull' om ze bij te werken maar er is idd
al een hele tijd geen update meer gebeurd op die repository.

Indien ik die tools wel had zou ik ze kunnen aanmaken natuurlijk, maar
voor dat stukje hangen we af van Sander.  Je kan hem mss best direct
contacteren hiervoor, als hij dat dan in git steekt, dan komt het er bij
mij ook uit.

Glenn

On 14-02-17 15:38, joost schouppe wrote:
> Ik zie dat de CRAB data die aan de basis ligt van die site (volgens de
> site zelf) van november 2015 is. Ik vind het redelijk pijnlijk dat we
> data van een jaar en een paar maand oud gebruiken, terwijl de bron
> dagelijks bijgewerkt wordt. "Adressen veranderen niet zo vaak" (ahum,
> tot je met die data eens aan de slag gaat), maar er zijn ondertussen
> geweldig veel fouten rechtgezet in de bron. In Antwerpen heb ik er het
> meeste zicht op natuurlijk, maar hier hebben we volgens mij minstens
> 1000 adressen verbeterd sinds die tijd. De data begint pas het laatste
> jaar écht gebruikt te worden binnen de administratie, dus ik vermoed dat
> er nog meer plaatsen zijn waar de datakwaliteit veel beter is dan in de
> dump van november 2015.
> 
> (uiteraard doen we geen blinde import enzo, maar waarom zou je niet
> gewoon de beste versie van de data gebruiken?)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap
>  | Twitter
>  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[joost schouppe]

Ik zie dat de CRAB data die aan de basis ligt van die site (volgens de site
zelf) van november 2015 is. Ik vind het redelijk pijnlijk dat we data van
een jaar en een paar maand oud gebruiken, terwijl de bron dagelijks
bijgewerkt wordt. "Adressen veranderen niet zo vaak" (ahum, tot je met die
data eens aan de slag gaat), maar er zijn ondertussen geweldig veel fouten
rechtgezet in de bron. In Antwerpen heb ik er het meeste zicht op
natuurlijk, maar hier hebben we volgens mij minstens 1000 adressen
verbeterd sinds die tijd. De data begint pas het laatste jaar écht gebruikt
te worden binnen de administratie, dus ik vermoed dat er nog meer plaatsen
zijn waar de datakwaliteit veel beter is dan in de dump van november 2015.

(uiteraard doen we geen blinde import enzo, maar waarom zou je niet gewoon
de beste versie van de data gebruiken?)


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[Glenn Plas]

Sus,

Ik heb een mirror van de aptum tool staan hier :

http://aptum.bitless.be/

Deze gebruikt de franse Overpass API nu.  Hopelijk helpt dit

Mvg,

Glenn


On 14-02-17 12:56, Sus Verhoeven wrote:
> Hooi,
> Sinds enkele tijd is de Agiv crab import heel pijnlijk, heel traag en
> soms loopt het mis.
> Is de overpass server te zwaar belast of Is daar wat aan te doen?
> 
> Sus
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[Glenn Plas]

Gebruik je straatfilters ?   Als je die niet aanzet (wildcard) is de
overpass query gigantisch.

Ik raad je aan om die steeds op te zetten, dan vliegen ze binnen

Glenn


On 14-02-17 12:56, Sus Verhoeven wrote:
> Hooi,
> Sinds enkele tijd is de Agiv crab import heel pijnlijk, heel traag en
> soms loopt het mis.
> Is de overpass server te zwaar belast of Is daar wat aan te doen?
> 
> Sus
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv crap import

[Karel Adams]

Stro,

Ook ik merk sedert een maand of twee dat de overpass servers in 
Duitsland kreunt onder de belasting. Ik raadpleeg nu de Franse 
mirrorserver en dat gaat véél beter.


Gebruik dus

http://api.openstreetmap.fr/oapi

in de plaats van

 http://overpass-api.de/api

Karel



On 14/02/17 11:56, Sus Verhoeven wrote:

Hooi,
Sinds enkele tijd is de Agiv crab import heel pijnlijk, heel traag en 
soms loopt het mis.

Is de overpass server te zwaar belast of Is daar wat aan te doen?

Sus


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[Glenn Plas]

Pretty trivial bug...

On 17-11-16 11:51, joost schouppe wrote:
> Got it: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3586
> 
> Didn't find the Issue, because already closed! Next release will fix it.


They should perform a hot-fix asap as this is damaging enough:  The bug
is really simple one:

return geoExtent([args[1], args[2]]);vs.return
geoExtent([args[2], args[1]]);

Anyone an idea when this new release will it the OSM streets ?

Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[joost schouppe]

Got it: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3586

Didn't find the Issue, because already closed! Next release will fix it.

2016-11-17 11:39 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :

>
> 2016-11-17 11:15 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :
>
>> iD 2.0 was released the other day...
>>
>
> Thanks, hijacking the dev thread on the subject!
>



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[joost schouppe]

2016-11-17 11:15 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :

> iD 2.0 was released the other day...
>

Thanks, hijacking the dev thread on the subject!
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[joost schouppe]

Glenn, geometry is based on Bing, when the building was still under
construction and you couldn't see the outline properly. Switch to Agiv
aerial and you'll see one can draw this properly.

I already contacted the editor (with the welcoming message), but I'm not
sure they'll understand my French.

As far as I can tell, the tagging is in fact correct.


2016-11-17 11:26 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas :

> On 17-11-16 11:13, joost schouppe wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Anyone know why AGIV no longer is default imagery in Flanders and
> > Brussels? Up until a week or so, this was the case.
> >
> > Because of this, we now got newbies doing stuff like this:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43700640#map=19/50.82941/4.45770
>
> What am I looking at here ?
> http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/changeset.jsp?id=43700640
>
> Not sure if I get the match between Perlino * 3 and the aerials
>
> afais: there are indeed 3 blocks there.
>
> Glenn
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[Glenn Plas]

On 17-11-16 11:13, joost schouppe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know why AGIV no longer is default imagery in Flanders and
> Brussels? Up until a week or so, this was the case.
> 
> Because of this, we now got newbies doing stuff like this:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43700640#map=19/50.82941/4.45770

What am I looking at here ?
http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/changeset.jsp?id=43700640

Not sure if I get the match between Perlino * 3 and the aerials

afais: there are indeed 3 blocks there.

Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV aerial no longer default in iD

[Marc Gemis]

iD 2.0 was released the other day...

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Anyone know why AGIV no longer is default imagery in Flanders and Brussels?
> Up until a week or so, this was the case.
>
> Because of this, we now got newbies doing stuff like this:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43700640#map=19/50.82941/4.45770
>
> AGIV is still marked as "best aivalable", but just not loaded by default...
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB import

[Sander Deryckere]

Die beslissing werd genomen om uniforme data in OSM te krijgen, zo dat alle
bisnummers op dezelfde manier genoteerd worden.

Het is vergelijkbaar met een aantal straatnamen die met hoofdletters in
CRAB zitten (i.p.v. enkel de eerste letter een hoofdletter).

zie de code:
https://github.com/aptum/aptum.github.io/blob/master/loadStreets.js#L436

Op 20 juni 2016 17:17 schreef Sus Verhoeven :

> Hooi Sander,
>
> Met een "/" in plaats van een  "_" zijn er geen missings meer, maar dat is
> toch niet helemaal juist. Ik ga de anderen met een "_" maar laten.
>
> Toch bedankt en groetjes.
>
> Sus
>
>
>
>
> 2016-06-20 15:24 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere :
>
>> Met de import hebben we geprobeerd om het formaat uniform te houden. Een
>> ik denk dat enkel nummers als 10/4 aanvaard worden, en niet 10_4.
>>
>> Kan je eens met dat formaat proberen? Mogelijk werkt dit ook nog niet
>> meteen, en moet er nog iets aangepast worden aan de code.
>>
>> Mvg,
>> Sander
>> Op 20-jun.-2016 14:24 schreef "Sus Verhoeven" :
>>
>>> Dag Sander,
>>>
>>> In Balen 2490 zijn er missings omdat men daar bis-numbers gebruikt in de
>>> vorm van Nr_1, Nr_2, Nr_3, enz.. in plaats van NrA, NrB, NrC enz..
>>> CRAB en OSM slikken die alsook de zoekfunctie van OSM.
>>>  Zie:
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139379759#map=19/51.15796/5.16556
>>> In de Hoolsterberg alleen zijn er  een tiental.
>>> Is daar iets aan te doen ?
>>>
>>> Sus
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB import

[Sus Verhoeven]

Hooi Sander,

Met een "/" in plaats van een  "_" zijn er geen missings meer, maar dat is
toch niet helemaal juist. Ik ga de anderen met een "_" maar laten.

Toch bedankt en groetjes.

Sus



2016-06-20 15:24 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere :

> Met de import hebben we geprobeerd om het formaat uniform te houden. Een
> ik denk dat enkel nummers als 10/4 aanvaard worden, en niet 10_4.
>
> Kan je eens met dat formaat proberen? Mogelijk werkt dit ook nog niet
> meteen, en moet er nog iets aangepast worden aan de code.
>
> Mvg,
> Sander
> Op 20-jun.-2016 14:24 schreef "Sus Verhoeven" :
>
>> Dag Sander,
>>
>> In Balen 2490 zijn er missings omdat men daar bis-numbers gebruikt in de
>> vorm van Nr_1, Nr_2, Nr_3, enz.. in plaats van NrA, NrB, NrC enz..
>> CRAB en OSM slikken die alsook de zoekfunctie van OSM.
>>  Zie:
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139379759#map=19/51.15796/5.16556
>> In de Hoolsterberg alleen zijn er  een tiental.
>> Is daar iets aan te doen ?
>>
>> Sus
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB import

[Sander Deryckere]

Met de import hebben we geprobeerd om het formaat uniform te houden. Een ik
denk dat enkel nummers als 10/4 aanvaard worden, en niet 10_4.

Kan je eens met dat formaat proberen? Mogelijk werkt dit ook nog niet
meteen, en moet er nog iets aangepast worden aan de code.

Mvg,
Sander
Op 20-jun.-2016 14:24 schreef "Sus Verhoeven" :

> Dag Sander,
>
> In Balen 2490 zijn er missings omdat men daar bis-numbers gebruikt in de
> vorm van Nr_1, Nr_2, Nr_3, enz.. in plaats van NrA, NrB, NrC enz..
> CRAB en OSM slikken die alsook de zoekfunctie van OSM.
>  Zie:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139379759#map=19/51.15796/5.16556
> In de Hoolsterberg alleen zijn er  een tiental.
> Is daar iets aan te doen ?
>
> Sus
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv streetview

[Sander Deryckere]

Het grootste probleem is privacy. Ze willen waarschijnlijk de beelden niet
blurren (dat zou nuttige info kunnen verbergen, en is nog altijd niet
perfect), dus kan enkel een selecte groep toegang krijgen.

Ik kan me voorstellen dat iemand die toegang vraagt wel een legaal document
zal moeten ondertekenen.

Zelf heb ik nog geen toegang aangevraagd.

Mvg,
Sander
Op 31-jan.-2016 16:23 schreef "Gilbert Hersschens" :

> Net even geprobeerd met een "gewone" AGIV account. Die volstaat blijkbaar
> niet. Je komt op een pagina waar je toelating kan vragen waarbij je de
> reden moet opgeven.
>
> 2016-01-31 16:17 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :
>
>> Hoi,
>> Heeft iemand eigenlijk al eens aan Agiv gevraagd of we een paar accounts
>> zouden kunnen krijgen om hun Mobile Mapping gegevens te gebruiken om te
>> mappen?
>> (dat is hun 360° straatbeeld databank)
>> Op zich staat er niets in hun licentie dat het zou verbieden, behalve dan
>> dat we geen GDI deelnemer zijn.
>>
>> Zie https://www.agiv.be/producten/mobilemapping
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv streetview

[Gilbert Hersschens]

Net even geprobeerd met een "gewone" AGIV account. Die volstaat blijkbaar
niet. Je komt op een pagina waar je toelating kan vragen waarbij je de
reden moet opgeven.

2016-01-31 16:17 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :

> Hoi,
> Heeft iemand eigenlijk al eens aan Agiv gevraagd of we een paar accounts
> zouden kunnen krijgen om hun Mobile Mapping gegevens te gebruiken om te
> mappen?
> (dat is hun 360° straatbeeld databank)
> Op zich staat er niets in hun licentie dat het zou verbieden, behalve dan
> dat we geen GDI deelnemer zijn.
>
> Zie https://www.agiv.be/producten/mobilemapping
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

On 26-01-16 05:33, Marc Gemis wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>> Also, make sure when you create your better OSM bulding, tag it
>> source:geometry=AGIV (I think to recognise agiv sats).
> 
> What do I have to do with source:geometry:date in those cases ?

Don't use this one for manual work.

this applies to the data in fact, so you don't need to manually do this.
 In the dutch BAG import they are using 'ref' but that is more wrong I
believe than what we propose here with the source tags.

wiki:

"If a feature has multiple tags you may want to make use of the source
namespace to indicate precisely which tag your source refers to. For
example:"

So it applies to a date field in the original source (GRB export).

It's similar to the oidn field in fact, you're not going to invent a
number there, it's always in relation with the source data.

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

On 26-01-16 04:27, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback.

My pleasure.  Thanks for discussing and questioning this, this is good.

> 
> I seems like I always stumble upon cases like this (also with De Lijn,
> house numbers, Dutch import). So no surprise that I am critical about
> "imports" (or manually merged data from another DB). With your
> procedure we can avoid that such data creeps into OSM, but you have to
> be careful and not hurry the data merger to much.

Haste is bad, but speed is good.  I would love to get this done by SOTM
2016 :)

> Do we really need the source=GRB tag ? (not talking about
> source:geometry). I don't like this tag (source) anymore. They are not
> maintained, it's not clear to which part of the tags they apply and
> just fill the database. When you survey a POI e.g., the name and type
> of shop come from the picture you have taken, the position from the
> georeferencing of the photo, combined with your memory and aerial
> image, the building layout comes from AGIV (or GRB), the house number
> from survey/GRB/CRAB, the webpage from a web search, etc. What is
> source in that case ? Are you adding source:XXX for each different tag

Yes it's a requirement.  You need source=* when you have other source
subkeys according to wiki.

JOSM will also complain if you lack source= normally and have
other source subkeys.  Besides that, it makes sense too.  The buildings
(meta) datasource (GRB) can be different than the geometry (agiv).

During my research this was the case, but I just tried to reproduce this
and JOSM doesn't warn me anymore. Have to figure out why and what
combination throws warnings.  But rest assured, I've done quite some
homework on the source tag, I think this is how 'minimal' we can get
with the tags.

This source tag actually applies on the important metadata imho. So if
you have source references like oidn and date now, we want to mention
where that came from through the source tag.

But I hear you on the mixed sources dilema.  For me , once the oidn
source tag is present on the way, that would default to source=GRB, it's
important because it informs the next mapper to take into account it
came from a trustworthy source.  it helps the decision process: "when
you want to change something, better make sure you doublecheck"

Glenn


> ?
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>> On 25-01-16 19:38, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> * splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV 
> imagery

 You should not have to do that imho, I've never encountered this 'too
 much building in between' situation.  When the garage is separated
 visibly on sat images but not in GRB, that's a precarious case, it could
 be that the building has been replaced but GRB isn't up to date, it
 could also be that the sat pics used are out of date and there has been
 an additional construction already in GRB.  You can't tell now what is
 correct from combining al sources of information.
>>>
>>> It's in Kaprijke, oid 1964089 IMHO this is just sloppy work in GRB.
>>> For those without access to GRB
>>
>> Absolutely right, it should be more like the neighbour’s house+garage.
>> That is some really shitty data you have in that area there.  Someone
>> really didn't bother being accurate.  They aren't even decent squares.
>>
>> These cases I've only seen a few of those.  I specifically remember a
>> building crossing itself, like a closed '8' instead of an '0' or open 8
>> like here (bit of imagination applies)
>>
>> I would remove that corner from the main building,  draw the garage
>> yourself, tag it appropriately. The garage should in fact have it's own
>> OIDN number in GRB data.
>>
>> Also, make sure when you create your better OSM bulding, tag it
>> source:geometry=AGIV (I think to recognise agiv sats).
>>
>> Then whenever this gets into GRB and trickles down in OSM, you will get
>> a merge pop-up here (because we use source:geometry=GRB for our building
>> imports by default), instead of a silent merge...  you'll get notified
>> there is a conflict, forcing you (=editor) to make a judgement call.
>>
>> Looks like pretty recent buildings.  Sloppy fieldwork indeed.
>>
>> It sure varies a lot the quality, probably by the decentralised approach
>> to this.
>>
>>
>> Nice catch.
>>
>> Glenn
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> Also, make sure when you create your better OSM bulding, tag it
> source:geometry=AGIV (I think to recognise agiv sats).

What do I have to do with source:geometry:date in those cases ?

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

Thanks for the feedback.

I seems like I always stumble upon cases like this (also with De Lijn,
house numbers, Dutch import). So no surprise that I am critical about
"imports" (or manually merged data from another DB). With your
procedure we can avoid that such data creeps into OSM, but you have to
be careful and not hurry the data merger to much.

Do we really need the source=GRB tag ? (not talking about
source:geometry). I don't like this tag (source) anymore. They are not
maintained, it's not clear to which part of the tags they apply and
just fill the database. When you survey a POI e.g., the name and type
of shop come from the picture you have taken, the position from the
georeferencing of the photo, combined with your memory and aerial
image, the building layout comes from AGIV (or GRB), the house number
from survey/GRB/CRAB, the webpage from a web search, etc. What is
source in that case ? Are you adding source:XXX for each different tag
?

regards

m

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> On 25-01-16 19:38, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
 * splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV 
 imagery
>>>
>>> You should not have to do that imho, I've never encountered this 'too
>>> much building in between' situation.  When the garage is separated
>>> visibly on sat images but not in GRB, that's a precarious case, it could
>>> be that the building has been replaced but GRB isn't up to date, it
>>> could also be that the sat pics used are out of date and there has been
>>> an additional construction already in GRB.  You can't tell now what is
>>> correct from combining al sources of information.
>>
>> It's in Kaprijke, oid 1964089 IMHO this is just sloppy work in GRB.
>> For those without access to GRB
>
> Absolutely right, it should be more like the neighbour’s house+garage.
> That is some really shitty data you have in that area there.  Someone
> really didn't bother being accurate.  They aren't even decent squares.
>
> These cases I've only seen a few of those.  I specifically remember a
> building crossing itself, like a closed '8' instead of an '0' or open 8
> like here (bit of imagination applies)
>
> I would remove that corner from the main building,  draw the garage
> yourself, tag it appropriately. The garage should in fact have it's own
> OIDN number in GRB data.
>
> Also, make sure when you create your better OSM bulding, tag it
> source:geometry=AGIV (I think to recognise agiv sats).
>
> Then whenever this gets into GRB and trickles down in OSM, you will get
> a merge pop-up here (because we use source:geometry=GRB for our building
> imports by default), instead of a silent merge...  you'll get notified
> there is a conflict, forcing you (=editor) to make a judgement call.
>
> Looks like pretty recent buildings.  Sloppy fieldwork indeed.
>
> It sure varies a lot the quality, probably by the decentralised approach
> to this.
>
>
> Nice catch.
>
> Glenn
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

On 25-01-16 19:38, Marc Gemis wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>>> * splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV 
>>> imagery
>>
>> You should not have to do that imho, I've never encountered this 'too
>> much building in between' situation.  When the garage is separated
>> visibly on sat images but not in GRB, that's a precarious case, it could
>> be that the building has been replaced but GRB isn't up to date, it
>> could also be that the sat pics used are out of date and there has been
>> an additional construction already in GRB.  You can't tell now what is
>> correct from combining al sources of information.
> 
> It's in Kaprijke, oid 1964089 IMHO this is just sloppy work in GRB.
> For those without access to GRB

Absolutely right, it should be more like the neighbour’s house+garage.
That is some really shitty data you have in that area there.  Someone
really didn't bother being accurate.  They aren't even decent squares.

These cases I've only seen a few of those.  I specifically remember a
building crossing itself, like a closed '8' instead of an '0' or open 8
like here (bit of imagination applies)

I would remove that corner from the main building,  draw the garage
yourself, tag it appropriately. The garage should in fact have it's own
OIDN number in GRB data.

Also, make sure when you create your better OSM bulding, tag it
source:geometry=AGIV (I think to recognise agiv sats).

Then whenever this gets into GRB and trickles down in OSM, you will get
a merge pop-up here (because we use source:geometry=GRB for our building
imports by default), instead of a silent merge...  you'll get notified
there is a conflict, forcing you (=editor) to make a judgement call.

Looks like pretty recent buildings.  Sloppy fieldwork indeed.

It sure varies a lot the quality, probably by the decentralised approach
to this.


Nice catch.

Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>> * splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV 
>> imagery
>
> You should not have to do that imho, I've never encountered this 'too
> much building in between' situation.  When the garage is separated
> visibly on sat images but not in GRB, that's a precarious case, it could
> be that the building has been replaced but GRB isn't up to date, it
> could also be that the sat pics used are out of date and there has been
> an additional construction already in GRB.  You can't tell now what is
> correct from combining al sources of information.

It's in Kaprijke, oid 1964089 IMHO this is just sloppy work in GRB.
For those without access to GRB

https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/Screenshots-1/i-JS8qrcz
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/Screenshots-1/i-74hZpVR

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

Hi Marc,

On 25-01-16 17:05, Marc Gemis wrote:
> A short question about source:geometry.

Feel free to ask

> 
> Should I/we keep it when we modify the building afterwards. I'm
> thinking of the following cases

When I modified a building manually because GRB is not correct, I change
this to source:geometry=AGIV

This way it would be a very simple/lightweight Overpass query to see the
manually adjusted buildings.  This could even serve as a feedback to GRB
itself, as I hate finding errors and mistakes in GRB with no (easy and
fast) way to reporting this.

It's also easy to extend this, source *could* be Bing (although I hope
to never see that in the data), it could be a future source, but any
adjustment made, I would strongly recommend changing that value.  It
could probably be 'Survey' in your case ;-)

The most common error is when only the front side has been measured and
the visible sides (aka , what you can see from standing in the street)

> * In the meantime, part of the building got destroyed
> * The building got finished in the meantime
> * straighten the corners
> * connecting 2 building parts because the part above the
> "tunnel=building_passage" is missing

building passages are actually in the GRB-Gis dataset, often, but not
always it's a 'verdieping' or 'roof'.  I've seen both with a lot more
verdieping's than roofs for building passages.

> * splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV imagery

You should not have to do that imho, I've never encountered this 'too
much building in between' situation.  When the garage is separated
visibly on sat images but not in GRB, that's a precarious case, it could
be that the building has been replaced but GRB isn't up to date, it
could also be that the sat pics used are out of date and there has been
an additional construction already in GRB.  You can't tell now what is
correct from combining al sources of information.

If you want to be complete on buildings, you have to combine at least 3
shape files:

Gbg = main buildings and buildings (OSM types: sheds, garages, house,
churches, hangars, office and so on ...)

Adp = roofs, verdieping (in essence a building), difference between roof
attached(overhang on building) and separate (a free standing gas station
roof)

Knw = So far what I've seen, none of these buildings have a
housenumber/address/street attached. Most often, these buildings are
separated from the rest , but I've seen some that attached to other
buildings.

Knw is the hardest to turn into OSM with a script in fact, I still need
to implement this.  But the amount of buildings in here is small and
none are sporting an address in the datasets I analysed, I find these
less important at this moment.

But combined, they should match the building you see well. Make sure you
compare your building with at least the combined Gbg+Adp GRB version.

But 'too much building'-case in between , I only encountered this when
buildings were obviously destroyed.  Resulting in deleting in entirely.

Do you have an OIDN (and area) of this building? I can take a look at
the data set to understand better.

Glenn


See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/GRB

> 
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

A short question about source:geometry.

Should I/we keep it when we modify the building afterwards. I'm
thinking of the following cases

* In the meantime, part of the building got destroyed
* The building got finished in the meantime
* straighten the corners
* connecting 2 building parts because the part above the
"tunnel=building_passage" is missing
* splitting a building because the garage is clearly separated on AGIV imagery


regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>> which means we could plan a face-to-face meeting in 2 months ?
>
> For me it's ok to do this sooner, I really don't want to wait another 2
> months to start on this, summer is coming and this is going to keep me
> inside :)

fine for me, we could even do this while the discussion on the import
mailing list is going on, not ?
This means that we should start looking for a meeting place and a
date. And we should know who is going to be involved (or wants to be
involved)

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

On 25-01-16 14:54, Marc Gemis wrote:
> So you are saying a need a couple of weeks more to finalise the tool.

More like a few hours (2/3 hrs). Cleanup the code a bit, perhaps remove
all my chaos inline documentation anchors :)

The verification part (with overpass stuff built in), I can write that
later, it's not too difficult.  Like Sanders state in his most recent
reply: this all depends on the uniqueness and stability of the 'oidn'
reference field, this key is the most important one.

> Then 2-3 weeks discussion on the import mailing list

It could be long, it could go fast too, I don't see us discussing this
too deeply.

> which means we could plan a face-to-face meeting in 2 months ?

For me it's ok to do this sooner, I really don't want to wait another 2
months to start on this, summer is coming and this is going to keep me
inside :)

> 
> I think that planning a face-to-face meeting can start now, so people
> that are interested can keep a day free in their agenda.

I'm setting up the HOT task manager as we speak, it's well documented,
this could be the perfect management tool.  I'll complete the setup asap.

Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Sander Deryckere]

2016-01-25 15:37 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas :

> On 25-01-16 14:06, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > * We pass this somehow through the import mailing list ( I fear we
> > cannot avoid this). Sander, you have some experience with this. What
> > do you think ?
>
> This needs to pass indeed, but let's not call it an import from now on.
>  I prefer a "semi-automated, human reviewed, merge operation" :)
> It is a bit like the news calling it a "tactical bombardment" when
> blowing up bombs, the first almost sounds like there aren't any
> casualties at all.
>
> I'm confident we'll get through it even when calling it an import. The
data quality is good, we're with a limited set of active mappers (who
worked on OSM long before trying an import), and we care about our region.

The only thing I'd have to defend is the usage of the GRB. They'd need some
guarantee that the key is valid (won't change without a reason, and won't
be reused on another building). I guess the AGIV gives some guarantee for
it in their documentation, but we should make the clear.


> > * We have a face-to-face meeting / hangout to explain the procedure to
> > interested people.  Face-to-face is better I think, but might not be
> > feasible for everyone. Perhaps a combination ?
>
> I believe face-2-face is better, and I'm willing to spend time on this,
> there are many questions you will have and the interactive approach will
> be easier to answer/demonstrate instead of describing it.
>

Face-2-face sounds good.

>
> > * We start "the import". Somehow we need an overview for this to see
> > who is working on a certain town. (a shared document/spreadsheet)
>
> I don't think you really need that in order to be able to work (it
> wouldn't hurt though).  Version management will take care of people
> working on different areas, in case of conflicts (I had a few where
> buildings where updated after my data retrieval from OSM and before
> uploading changesets) it's not fun resolving those in JOSM (even hard
> sometimes).
>
> So I would suggest doing it in small fractions. I tried 'finding'
> building hotspots and just work square per square.  You can also to the
> 'bijgebouwen' first and then later the main buildings, after that
> garages and so on...  So it doesn't have to be segregated into area's ,
> you could just do subsets.
>

Yes, it should be organised in a way you can do an hour or two work on it,
upload it, and return later on with fresh OSM data to avoid conflicts.

>
> The only thing you need to keep track of is the work you've done
> yourself.  I deleted the buildings from the source file once I moved
> them to the target layer, to avoid duplicate validation work.
>
> We could set up a map for this. You can overlay mapbox vector tile
buildings with a GRB background, and see where any GRB buildings stick out,
or the other way around.

We can also use overpass to do some counting in squares or boundaries. F.e.
in Overpass, it would be easy to extract a list of all GRB ids of buildings
in a certain municipality, and compare that with the official data.


> The area size was not always as large, it depends on the concentration
> of buildings.  We should discuss this at the meeting, because I'm just a
> one man show and would love some peer input and feedback.
>
> I was thinking about using HOT osm task manager, it's code is available.
>  That would be awesome to
>
> https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2
>
> Then there is also the matter of downloading (Aka `Ordering`) the data.
> We should do this 'at once' preferably to make sure adjacent areas match
> up. Not doing so might give some problem at the borders of the area.
> But that should be minimal.
>
> There are 307 'gemeentes' / general area's in the selection list.  You
> can combine some, but I haven't tried to combine all for a full download.
>

I ran into the problem of not being able to download it all. My internet
connection isn't stable enough, and when the connection drops, the download
can't be resumed.

But even when you're able to download everything, you should still be able
to split the shapefile. Not all shapefile splitters will work, as some just
run in your memory (and I guess you don't have more than 15 GB RAM).

OSM tasking manager indeed seems like a good idea (it's also used by other
countries to organise imports), and the tasking manager can even provide
links to external files in some way (I've used it when doing an import of
names in Sierra Leone once).

>
> Glenn
>
>
Regards,
Sander
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

So you are saying a need a couple of weeks more to finalise the tool.
Then 2-3 weeks discussion on the import mailing list
which means we could plan a face-to-face meeting in 2 months ?

I think that planning a face-to-face meeting can start now, so people
that are interested can keep a day free in their agenda.

m.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

On 25-01-16 14:06, Marc Gemis wrote:
> What's the planning for the import ?
> 
> * Glenn finishes documentation (although I think it's (almost) ready)

The highlights are ready, but I've encountered plenty of situations that
we will run into that need more detailed documentation.  I've made some
movies as well showing how I worked but I might have to do them again
since I had to change some ways after Sander's valuable input.

The tool isn't quite done yet imho. I still need to fix/improve a few
things in the code.  Also, after-care is important.  I want the script
to also be able to verify if buildings were updated.  Once the GRB
reference (oidn) is in the OSM data we can reference it to compair
(using the source date) if any updates have been done to existing buildings.

> * We pass this somehow through the import mailing list ( I fear we
> cannot avoid this). Sander, you have some experience with this. What
> do you think ?

This needs to pass indeed, but let's not call it an import from now on.
 I prefer a "semi-automated, human reviewed, merge operation" :)
It is a bit like the news calling it a "tactical bombardment" when
blowing up bombs, the first almost sounds like there aren't any
casualties at all.

> * We have a face-to-face meeting / hangout to explain the procedure to
> interested people.  Face-to-face is better I think, but might not be
> feasible for everyone. Perhaps a combination ?

I believe face-2-face is better, and I'm willing to spend time on this,
there are many questions you will have and the interactive approach will
be easier to answer/demonstrate instead of describing it.

> * We start "the import". Somehow we need an overview for this to see
> who is working on a certain town. (a shared document/spreadsheet)

I don't think you really need that in order to be able to work (it
wouldn't hurt though).  Version management will take care of people
working on different areas, in case of conflicts (I had a few where
buildings where updated after my data retrieval from OSM and before
uploading changesets) it's not fun resolving those in JOSM (even hard
sometimes).

So I would suggest doing it in small fractions. I tried 'finding'
building hotspots and just work square per square.  You can also to the
'bijgebouwen' first and then later the main buildings, after that
garages and so on...  So it doesn't have to be segregated into area's ,
you could just do subsets.

The only thing you need to keep track of is the work you've done
yourself.  I deleted the buildings from the source file once I moved
them to the target layer, to avoid duplicate validation work.

The area size was not always as large, it depends on the concentration
of buildings.  We should discuss this at the meeting, because I'm just a
one man show and would love some peer input and feedback.

I was thinking about using HOT osm task manager, it's code is available.
 That would be awesome to

https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2

Then there is also the matter of downloading (Aka `Ordering`) the data.
We should do this 'at once' preferably to make sure adjacent areas match
up. Not doing so might give some problem at the borders of the area.
But that should be minimal.

There are 307 'gemeentes' / general area's in the selection list.  You
can combine some, but I haven't tried to combine all for a full download.

Glenn

> 
> 
> 
> m.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>>
>>> I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in
>>> the GRB. I'm thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB
>>>  building shape is just wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not
>>> perfect, it's a complex building) and 3D mapped.
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325
>>
>> Yes of course. that's why I call it a merge. since this process
>> encompasses using AGIV sat layer, and GRB layer in JOSM itself, it's
>> not hard to see where GRB has got it wrong.
>>
>> No need to worry about losing good OSM data, when done right..
>>
>> Glenn
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

What's the planning for the import ?

* Glenn finishes documentation (although I think it's (almost) ready)
* We pass this somehow through the import mailing list ( I fear we
cannot avoid this). Sander, you have some experience with this. What
do you think ?
* We have a face-to-face meeting / hangout to explain the procedure to
interested people.  Face-to-face is better I think, but might not be
feasible for everyone. Perhaps a combination ?
* We start "the import". Somehow we need an overview for this to see
who is working on a certain town. (a shared document/spreadsheet)



m.


On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>
>> I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in
>> the GRB. I'm thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB
>>  building shape is just wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not
>> perfect, it's a complex building) and 3D mapped.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325
>
> Yes of course. that's why I call it a merge. since this process
> encompasses using AGIV sat layer, and GRB layer in JOSM itself, it's
> not hard to see where GRB has got it wrong.
>
> No need to worry about losing good OSM data, when done right..
>
> Glenn
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

> I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in
> the GRB. I'm thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB
>  building shape is just wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not 
> perfect, it's a complex building) and 3D mapped. 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325

Yes of course. that's why I call it a merge. since this process
encompasses using AGIV sat layer, and GRB layer in JOSM itself, it's
not hard to see where GRB has got it wrong.

No need to worry about losing good OSM data, when done right..

Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

It's up to the mapper that does the import to check each building individually.
It's not different than noticing that a building is partly destroyed
on the AGIV imagery and adapting the GRB building according to that.

m

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 8:43 PM, Ruben Maes  wrote:
> Sunday 24 January 2016 19:03:35, Glenn Plas:
>> (...)
>> In the whole of Stekene, I probably deleted no more than 20 buildings
>> on multiple thousands that got imported with good reasons.  Deleting
>> is not an issue.
>> (...)
>> Tag migration and merging takes more time than replaceing the geometry
>> itself.  Every time the merge conflict dialog pops up, you'll loose 15
>> seconds, multiply that by thousands of buildings...
>> (...)
>
> I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in the GRB. I'm 
> thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB building shape is just 
> wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not perfect, it's a complex building) and 
> 3D mapped.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 24 January 2016 19:03:35, Glenn Plas:
> (...)
> In the whole of Stekene, I probably deleted no more than 20 buildings
> on multiple thousands that got imported with good reasons.  Deleting
> is not an issue.
> (...)
> Tag migration and merging takes more time than replaceing the geometry
> itself.  Every time the merge conflict dialog pops up, you'll loose 15
> seconds, multiply that by thousands of buildings...
> (...)

I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in the GRB. I'm 
thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB building shape is just 
wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not perfect, it's a complex building) and 3D 
mapped.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Glenn Plas]

The current test procedure respects previous editing work, because the
goal is not to import GRB data (not = CRAB) into OSM, but to improve
OSM data with GRB.

That means keeping history on an existing building intact, taking into
account that a human has entered the original tags in case of doubt,
the editor needs to decide what's appropriate.

In the whole of Stekene, I probably deleted no more than 20 buildings
on multiple thousands that got imported with good reasons.  Deleting
is not an issue.

What will be a challenge is training and guidance in a working
procedure, making sure we take acceptable decisions in area's of conflict.

It will also never be fully automated due to the fact that it's not
going to be a flat import but more like a merger of data.

The speed is depending on how much conflict you encounter, existing
buildings are not a problem, but it's indeed easier and faster when
nothing is 'in the way' . But even in crowded places where houses
existed, merging a building just takes 100% attention, a few seconds
and a lot of coffee on the side.

Existing data actually helps on deciding.  The real time consuming
bit's are when existing buildings were addressed incorrectly in OSM
(offset housenumbers by 1 building -for example- is a pain in the butt)

Tag migration and merging takes more time than replaceing the geometry
itself.  Every time the merge conflict dialog pops up, you'll loose 15
seconds, multiply that by thousands of buildings...

I believe that crowded cities will be intensive to merge.

Glenn



On 24-01-16 18:18, Marc Gemis wrote:
> As the other pointed out, the import has to be done /will be done
> carefully. Glenn try it in a mostly empty area and of course it goes
> much faster. In an area with buildings, we will keep all existing
> information. The replace geometry functionality in JOSM + utilsplugin2
> is your friend.
> 
> The quality of the data after the import will depend on the person
> that does the import. I noticed, e.g. that many peoples do not have
> nice corners. So I did a "q" on them. Maybe other will "forget" that
> step. I also removed several additional nodes. I prefer to go a bit
> slower, but deliver a nicer result. Others might import more and clean
> up less. We see the same with the import of the addresses so far. Some
> just draw a bunch of rectangles for the houses, regardless of the
> actual shape.
> 
> It all depends on your goals.
> 
> Depending on the town, you might notice that the data can be a bit of
> of date or sometimes it can be drawn a bit clumsy. It's up to the
> importer to be alert and fix it IMHO.
> 
> I hope we can organize a meetup or a hangout to explain the tools and
> the tips and tricks to some people later on.
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Ruben Maes  wrote:
>> Thursday 21 January 2016 05:35:11, Marc Gemis:
>>> At this moment someone is working on converting the GRB data into something
>>> that can be "easily" imported.
>>> (...)
>>
>> Great that we'll have a more or less complete map of the buildings in 
>> Flanders.
>>
>> I know some places where OSM already has much better building information 
>> than Agiv, mapped with love and local knowledge. Can I make sure those don't 
>> get overridden by inferior data with a note in the data or something?
>>
>> --
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Marc Gemis]

As the other pointed out, the import has to be done /will be done
carefully. Glenn try it in a mostly empty area and of course it goes
much faster. In an area with buildings, we will keep all existing
information. The replace geometry functionality in JOSM + utilsplugin2
is your friend.

The quality of the data after the import will depend on the person
that does the import. I noticed, e.g. that many peoples do not have
nice corners. So I did a "q" on them. Maybe other will "forget" that
step. I also removed several additional nodes. I prefer to go a bit
slower, but deliver a nicer result. Others might import more and clean
up less. We see the same with the import of the addresses so far. Some
just draw a bunch of rectangles for the houses, regardless of the
actual shape.

It all depends on your goals.

Depending on the town, you might notice that the data can be a bit of
of date or sometimes it can be drawn a bit clumsy. It's up to the
importer to be alert and fix it IMHO.

I hope we can organize a meetup or a hangout to explain the tools and
the tips and tricks to some people later on.

regards

m

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Ruben Maes  wrote:
> Thursday 21 January 2016 05:35:11, Marc Gemis:
>> At this moment someone is working on converting the GRB data into something
>> that can be "easily" imported.
>> (...)
>
> Great that we'll have a more or less complete map of the buildings in 
> Flanders.
>
> I know some places where OSM already has much better building information 
> than Agiv, mapped with love and local knowledge. Can I make sure those don't 
> get overridden by inferior data with a note in the data or something?
>
> --
> This message is OpenPGP signed.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 24 January 2016 18:13:02, Jo:
> You could add note on them, but there is no guarantee that it gets read or
> acted upon, so it's probably a waste of bytes to do so. There are tools
> that let you watch over certain areas that have your interest, then you can
> revert and send a message to the person who replaced with inferior data to
> no do so in that region.
> 
> I think that's the more sensible way to proceed, but I can't remember the
> names of those tools at the moment.

Thanks Jo. After some searching I found that 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/ has such functionality.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Sander Deryckere]

Ruben,

The import is a lot more complicated than the CRAB import, but also less
monkey work, so there will only be a few people doing that import. Normally
those will also be careful about what they import, but they should also be
easy to contact, so you can warn them on beforehand.

However, now it's just in some sort of testing phase, so it's not yet known
who will occupy himself with the import.

Regards,
Sander

2016-01-24 17:48 GMT+01:00 Ruben Maes :

> Thursday 21 January 2016 05:35:11, Marc Gemis:
> > At this moment someone is working on converting the GRB data into
> something
> > that can be "easily" imported.
> > (...)
>
> Great that we'll have a more or less complete map of the buildings in
> Flanders.
>
> I know some places where OSM already has much better building information
> than Agiv, mapped with love and local knowledge. Can I make sure those
> don't get overridden by inferior data with a note in the data or something?
>
> --
> This message is OpenPGP signed.
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Jo]

You could add note on them, but there is no guarantee that it gets read or
acted upon, so it's probably a waste of bytes to do so. There are tools
that let you watch over certain areas that have your interest, then you can
revert and send a message to the person who replaced with inferior data to
no do so in that region.

I think that's the more sensible way to proceed, but I can't remember the
names of those tools at the moment.

Cheers,

Jo

2016-01-24 17:48 GMT+01:00 Ruben Maes :

> Thursday 21 January 2016 05:35:11, Marc Gemis:
> > At this moment someone is working on converting the GRB data into
> something
> > that can be "easily" imported.
> > (...)
>
> Great that we'll have a more or less complete map of the buildings in
> Flanders.
>
> I know some places where OSM already has much better building information
> than Agiv, mapped with love and local knowledge. Can I make sure those
> don't get overridden by inferior data with a note in the data or something?
>
> --
> This message is OpenPGP signed.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 27 October 2015 12:43:42, Louis van Boeckel:
> Agiv heeft de luchtbeelden van 2014 vrijgeven, hoe krijg ik die in josm! 
> of is er iemand die dat kan doen.

Ik geloof dat de "AGIV(laanderen) aerial imagery (covers Brussels region as 
well) (2013)" steeds de laatste beelden zijn, hoewel er 2013 in de naam staat.

Die bron staat in het menu Imagery van JOSM als je een gebied in België 
bekijkt. Zo niet gebruik je waarschijnlijk een oudere versie van JOSM en moet 
je het aanzetten in de Imagery preferences.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Glenn Plas]

On 20-02-15 17:41, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Ik zou nu ook weer niet teveel verwachten van die verkeersborden
> databank: 
> http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/verkeersbordendatabank-een-lege-doos-van-20-miljoen-euro-a2161434/
> 

Het is tenminste een centrale database, dat is al heel wat.  Of het
allemaal wel juist is ligt vooral aan de mensen die verantwoordelijk
zijn voor de content denk ik.

Interessant artikel wel.

Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Marc Gemis]

Ik zou nu ook weer niet teveel verwachten van die verkeersborden databank:
http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/verkeersbordendatabank-een-lege-doos-van-20-miljoen-euro-a2161434/

mvg

m

2015-02-20 17:28 GMT+01:00 Sander Deryckere :

> Hier heb ik geen problemen mee. De overheid heeft veel privacy-gevoelige
> data, en die moet niet altijd publiek gemaakt worden (in veel gevallen,
> liever niet zelfs).
>
> De verkeersborden database zou natuurlijk meer dan welkom zijn, en dan zou
> het eindelijk mogelijk zijn om eens een goed navigatietoestel voor
> vrachtwagens te maken. Tegenwoordig worden vrachtwagens op onbekend terrein
> nog veel te vaak door kleine straatjes gesstuurd, of zelfs straten waar ze
> niet over mogen. De commerciële navigatiediensten bieden geen oplossing
> aan, maar in OSM worden die maximum gewichten vaak ook niet getagged, omdat
> we er vaak als automobilist of fietser niet op letten.
>
> Eigenlijk zie ik enkel maar voordelen bij het vrijgeven van de
> verkeersborden database.
>
> Wat die site van OFKN betreft, die zipcode colom zou wel iets groener
> mogen. Inmiddels zijn alle adressen van Brussel en Vlaanderen vrijgegeven
> (inclusief poscodes), wat Wallonië betreft ken ik de stand van zaken niet.
>
> Groeten,
> Sander
>
> Op 20 februari 2015 16:55 schreef Glenn Plas :
>
> Weeral een dienst die gesponsord door belastingsgeld een publiek goed
>> probeert uit te melken.
>>
>> Het is niet voor niets dat Belgie op plaats 53 staat in de OKFN index op
>> OpenData gebruik.
>>
>> Ik vrees dat dit aan ons voorbij zal gaan.  De verkeersborden database
>> zou eigenlijk al heel wat zijn. Er is blijkbaar geen beleid om met onze
>> vragen om te gaan. (heb het ook gedaan paar jaar terug, ik wacht nog
>> steeds)
>>
>> http://index.okfn.org/place/
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20-02-15 14:59, Sander Deryckere wrote:
>> > Zie hun informatienota:
>> >
>> https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/mobilemapping/documenten/informatienota%20inwinning%20panoramische%20beelden.pdf
>> >
>> > Deze belofte om de beelden niet te verspreiden maakt het zowat
>> > onmogelijk om dat wel to doen (ik zou ook niet houden van overheden die
>> > hun beloftes niet nakomen).
>> >
>> > In het beste geval kan een ontwikkelaar (of een firma) toegang krijgen
>> > tot de foto's, om er op die manier nuttige data uit te halen (zoals die
>> > verkeersborden), en die dan te publiceren.
>> >
>> > Mvg,
>> > Sander
>> >
>> > Op 20 februari 2015 14:51 schreef Jo > > >:
>> >
>> > Wij van onze kant zijn begonnen met het in beeld brengen van alle
>> > wegen mbv Mapillary,com. Het lijkt er niet op dat we van
>> > soortgelijke beelden gebruik zullen kunnen maken om OSM te
>> > verbeteren, behalve als we ze zelf verzamelen.
>> >
>> > Ik had ook 's een mail geschreven naar
>> > 'verkeersbor...@mow.vlaanderen.be
>> > ' een paar weken terug,
>> > maar die was geen antwoord waardig, blijkbaar.
>> >
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Sander Deryckere]

Hier heb ik geen problemen mee. De overheid heeft veel privacy-gevoelige
data, en die moet niet altijd publiek gemaakt worden (in veel gevallen,
liever niet zelfs).

De verkeersborden database zou natuurlijk meer dan welkom zijn, en dan zou
het eindelijk mogelijk zijn om eens een goed navigatietoestel voor
vrachtwagens te maken. Tegenwoordig worden vrachtwagens op onbekend terrein
nog veel te vaak door kleine straatjes gesstuurd, of zelfs straten waar ze
niet over mogen. De commerciële navigatiediensten bieden geen oplossing
aan, maar in OSM worden die maximum gewichten vaak ook niet getagged, omdat
we er vaak als automobilist of fietser niet op letten.

Eigenlijk zie ik enkel maar voordelen bij het vrijgeven van de
verkeersborden database.

Wat die site van OFKN betreft, die zipcode colom zou wel iets groener
mogen. Inmiddels zijn alle adressen van Brussel en Vlaanderen vrijgegeven
(inclusief poscodes), wat Wallonië betreft ken ik de stand van zaken niet.

Groeten,
Sander

Op 20 februari 2015 16:55 schreef Glenn Plas :

> Weeral een dienst die gesponsord door belastingsgeld een publiek goed
> probeert uit te melken.
>
> Het is niet voor niets dat Belgie op plaats 53 staat in de OKFN index op
> OpenData gebruik.
>
> Ik vrees dat dit aan ons voorbij zal gaan.  De verkeersborden database
> zou eigenlijk al heel wat zijn. Er is blijkbaar geen beleid om met onze
> vragen om te gaan. (heb het ook gedaan paar jaar terug, ik wacht nog
> steeds)
>
> http://index.okfn.org/place/
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
>
> On 20-02-15 14:59, Sander Deryckere wrote:
> > Zie hun informatienota:
> >
> https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/mobilemapping/documenten/informatienota%20inwinning%20panoramische%20beelden.pdf
> >
> > Deze belofte om de beelden niet te verspreiden maakt het zowat
> > onmogelijk om dat wel to doen (ik zou ook niet houden van overheden die
> > hun beloftes niet nakomen).
> >
> > In het beste geval kan een ontwikkelaar (of een firma) toegang krijgen
> > tot de foto's, om er op die manier nuttige data uit te halen (zoals die
> > verkeersborden), en die dan te publiceren.
> >
> > Mvg,
> > Sander
> >
> > Op 20 februari 2015 14:51 schreef Jo  > >:
> >
> > Wij van onze kant zijn begonnen met het in beeld brengen van alle
> > wegen mbv Mapillary,com. Het lijkt er niet op dat we van
> > soortgelijke beelden gebruik zullen kunnen maken om OSM te
> > verbeteren, behalve als we ze zelf verzamelen.
> >
> > Ik had ook 's een mail geschreven naar
> > 'verkeersbor...@mow.vlaanderen.be
> > ' een paar weken terug,
> > maar die was geen antwoord waardig, blijkbaar.
> >
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Glenn Plas]

Weeral een dienst die gesponsord door belastingsgeld een publiek goed
probeert uit te melken.

Het is niet voor niets dat Belgie op plaats 53 staat in de OKFN index op
OpenData gebruik.

Ik vrees dat dit aan ons voorbij zal gaan.  De verkeersborden database
zou eigenlijk al heel wat zijn. Er is blijkbaar geen beleid om met onze
vragen om te gaan. (heb het ook gedaan paar jaar terug, ik wacht nog steeds)

http://index.okfn.org/place/

Glenn




On 20-02-15 14:59, Sander Deryckere wrote:
> Zie hun informatienota:
> https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/mobilemapping/documenten/informatienota%20inwinning%20panoramische%20beelden.pdf
> 
> Deze belofte om de beelden niet te verspreiden maakt het zowat
> onmogelijk om dat wel to doen (ik zou ook niet houden van overheden die
> hun beloftes niet nakomen).
> 
> In het beste geval kan een ontwikkelaar (of een firma) toegang krijgen
> tot de foto's, om er op die manier nuttige data uit te halen (zoals die
> verkeersborden), en die dan te publiceren.
> 
> Mvg,
> Sander
> 
> Op 20 februari 2015 14:51 schreef Jo  >:
> 
> Wij van onze kant zijn begonnen met het in beeld brengen van alle
> wegen mbv Mapillary,com. Het lijkt er niet op dat we van
> soortgelijke beelden gebruik zullen kunnen maken om OSM te
> verbeteren, behalve als we ze zelf verzamelen.
> 
> Ik had ook 's een mail geschreven naar
> 'verkeersbor...@mow.vlaanderen.be
> ' een paar weken terug,
> maar die was geen antwoord waardig, blijkbaar.
> 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Sander Deryckere]

Zie hun informatienota:
https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/mobilemapping/documenten/informatienota%20inwinning%20panoramische%20beelden.pdf

Deze belofte om de beelden niet te verspreiden maakt het zowat onmogelijk
om dat wel to doen (ik zou ook niet houden van overheden die hun beloftes
niet nakomen).

In het beste geval kan een ontwikkelaar (of een firma) toegang krijgen tot
de foto's, om er op die manier nuttige data uit te halen (zoals die
verkeersborden), en die dan te publiceren.

Mvg,
Sander

Op 20 februari 2015 14:51 schreef Jo :

> Wij van onze kant zijn begonnen met het in beeld brengen van alle wegen
> mbv Mapillary,com. Het lijkt er niet op dat we van soortgelijke beelden
> gebruik zullen kunnen maken om OSM te verbeteren, behalve als we ze zelf
> verzamelen.
>
> Ik had ook 's een mail geschreven naar 'verkeersbor...@mow.vlaanderen.be'
> een paar weken terug, maar die was geen antwoord waardig, blijkbaar.
>
> Groeten,
>
>
> Jo
>
> Op 20 februari 2015 14:29 schreef hvdb :
>
>> In twee jaar tijd worden alle berijdbare wegen van Vlaanderen (ongeveer
>> 64.000 km) in kaart gebracht. Vanaf eind november zijn de eerste gemeenten
>> beschikbaar in de webapplicatie. Stapsgewijs worden er gemeenten toegevoegd
>> :
>> http://www.image-v.be/page/planning
>> http://www.orbitgt.com/kb/agiv/index
>> http://www.orbitgt.com/kb/agiv/beelden_databank
>>
>>
>> In oktober van verleden jaar is AGIV, het Agentschap voor Geografische
>> Informatie Vlaanderen (onderdeel van de Vlaamse Overheid) gestart met het
>> maken van nieuwe mobilemappingbeelden van heel Vlaanderen. Je kan deze
>> beelden vergelijken met de panoramische beelden van Google Streetview.
>> Hiervoor doet men een beroep op de firma Image-V die gedurende twee jaar
>> met camerawagens alle Vlaamse gemeenten zullen fotograferen. De wagens zijn
>> uitgerust met een 360°-camera en laserscanners.
>>
>> In Bocholt zal dit gebeuren in het eerste kwartaal van 2015.
>>
>>
>> http://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20150122_01487930/camerawagen-maakt-beelden-van-bocholt-voor-agiv
>>
>> great ;)
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV mobile mapping toepassing

[Jo]

Wij van onze kant zijn begonnen met het in beeld brengen van alle wegen mbv
Mapillary,com. Het lijkt er niet op dat we van soortgelijke beelden gebruik
zullen kunnen maken om OSM te verbeteren, behalve als we ze zelf verzamelen.

Ik had ook 's een mail geschreven naar 'verkeersbor...@mow.vlaanderen.be'
een paar weken terug, maar die was geen antwoord waardig, blijkbaar.

Groeten,


Jo

Op 20 februari 2015 14:29 schreef hvdb :

> In twee jaar tijd worden alle berijdbare wegen van Vlaanderen (ongeveer
> 64.000 km) in kaart gebracht. Vanaf eind november zijn de eerste gemeenten
> beschikbaar in de webapplicatie. Stapsgewijs worden er gemeenten toegevoegd
> :
> http://www.image-v.be/page/planning
> http://www.orbitgt.com/kb/agiv/index
> http://www.orbitgt.com/kb/agiv/beelden_databank
>
>
> In oktober van verleden jaar is AGIV, het Agentschap voor Geografische
> Informatie Vlaanderen (onderdeel van de Vlaamse Overheid) gestart met het
> maken van nieuwe mobilemappingbeelden van heel Vlaanderen. Je kan deze
> beelden vergelijken met de panoramische beelden van Google Streetview.
> Hiervoor doet men een beroep op de firma Image-V die gedurende twee jaar
> met camerawagens alle Vlaamse gemeenten zullen fotograferen. De wagens zijn
> uitgerust met een 360°-camera en laserscanners.
>
> In Bocholt zal dit gebeuren in het eerste kwartaal van 2015.
>
>
> http://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20150122_01487930/camerawagen-maakt-beelden-van-bocholt-voor-agiv
>
> great ;)
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV Luchtfoto's

[Sander Deryckere]

De updates worden normaal gepost op hun site:  https://www.agiv.be/news

Maar het is idd regio per regio.
Op 4-feb.-2015 05:25 schreef "Marc Gemis" :

> maar blijkbaar nog niet overal.
> Een nieuwbouw bij mij in de buurt is nu wel zichtbaar, de One World bridge
> in De Schorre nog niet
>
> m
>
> 2015-02-04 5:21 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :
>
>> Ter info: het lijkt erop dat de luchtfoto's van AGIV recent weer
>> ge-update zijn.
>> Kunnen we recente gebouwen gaan traceren.
>>
>> mvg
>>
>> m
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV Luchtfoto's

[Marc Gemis]

maar blijkbaar nog niet overal.
Een nieuwbouw bij mij in de buurt is nu wel zichtbaar, de One World bridge
in De Schorre nog niet

m

2015-02-04 5:21 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :

> Ter info: het lijkt erop dat de luchtfoto's van AGIV recent weer ge-update
> zijn.
> Kunnen we recente gebouwen gaan traceren.
>
> mvg
>
> m
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB import

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:07:38AM +0100, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> Hi Kurt,
> 
> Your tool may come in handy when generating diffs because it has a
> database. I deliberately did not use a database because it can be a lot of
> work to set this up and I believe the AGIV CRAB data should be usable by
> anyone.

It shouldn't be that hard to set it up with a database.  And I
need the database for the other things I want to do with it.

> The interface here is translated: http://addr.openstreetmap.fr/vlaanderen/
> 
> I just send the csv files to frédéric rodrigo and he uploads them and
> creates relations etc. If you can send me a new file that would be great
> when the issue I had have been solved:
> 
> - Improve the script to handle 'special' chars.
> - Improve the script to Always take the most accurate position.
> - Improve the script to remove data with an end-date before today.
> 
> But if i followed your explanation this should all be ok no? Thanks for the
> good work. Oh and can you keep the format I used?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0nglkunw4x2osk/crab.csv
> 
> Dot-comma seperated and the same columns? This will make it easier for
> frederic to update.

I assume your first problem is that the CRAB database is in latin1
and maybe you want it in UTF-8?  I can at least not see problems
with non-ASCII chars.

But I do believe it should deal properly with the rest.

I've put a file with the same header on:
http://www.roeckx.be/osm/crab.csv

I've made that file in UTF-8.  I hope that is what's expected.


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV datasets, gemeente grezen

[Ben Abelshausen]

2013/11/9 Kurt Roeckx 

> Ben, kun je eens horen of we al die dingen echt kunnen gebruiken?


Ik zal eens horen. Met het updaten van grenzen moeten we wel oppassen denk
ik. Iemand daar meer ervaring mee?

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB import

[Ben Abelshausen]

Hi Kurt,

Your tool may come in handy when generating diffs because it has a
database. I deliberately did not use a database because it can be a lot of
work to set this up and I believe the AGIV CRAB data should be usable by
anyone.

The interface here is translated: http://addr.openstreetmap.fr/vlaanderen/

I just send the csv files to frédéric rodrigo and he uploads them and
creates relations etc. If you can send me a new file that would be great
when the issue I had have been solved:

- Improve the script to handle 'special' chars.
- Improve the script to Always take the most accurate position.
- Improve the script to remove data with an end-date before today.

But if i followed your explanation this should all be ok no? Thanks for the
good work. Oh and can you keep the format I used?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0nglkunw4x2osk/crab.csv

Dot-comma seperated and the same columns? This will make it easier for
frederic to update.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Kurt Roeckx  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been looking at creating my own tools for the CRAB data.
> I've made some software to import the files provided by AGIV
> into a postgresql database.  You can find it here:
> https://github.com/kroeckx/crab-tools
>
> To create the same .csv files as Ben generates I suggest you
> use the following query:
> SELECT
> DISTINCT ON (point)
> postcode, municipality_name, street_name, house_number_label,
> ST_Y(ST_Transform(point, 4326)), ST_X(ST_Transform(point, 4326))
> FROM crab.address_position
> WHERE postcode = ?
> ORDER BY point;
>
> This should give you more addresses and only the valid addresses,
> and in most cases it should now end up on the building.  It should
> also have grouped all the different numbers belonging to the same
> building into 1 node.
>
> I'm not sure how the data on http://addr.openstreetmap.fr/vlaanderen
> is generated exactly.  But I'm going to look into improving
> things.
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV Crab Import : gebruik van meerdere lagen

[Jo]

Wat je ook kan doen is lagen samenvoegen (merge).

Jo


Op 9 november 2013 10:04 schreef Jo :

> Die bedenking maakte ik me gisteren ook. In het geval van Urbis hebben we
> bestanden ter beschikking gesteld met een hele gemeente tegelijk en dan zit
> je met 2 lagen, maar als je die straat per straat binnenkrijgt via remote
> control, kan je ze toch meteen in je actieve laag binnenhalen?
>
> Wat je wel zou kunnen doen, is gebruik maken van de todoplugin, om te
> zorgen dat je ze allemaal behandeld hebt voordat je gaat doorsturen naar de
> server.
>
> Jo
>
>
> Op 9 november 2013 07:55 schreef Marc Gemis :
>
>> Om nog even terug  te komen op het gebruik van 2 lagen bij de import van
>> Crab data. Wat is het nut als we toch de volledige laag in 1 keer copieren
>> naar de laag met osm gegevens ?
>>
>> Ik begrijp het nut als je maar een deel van de import laag zou copieren
>> (zoals bij bushaltes of beschermde monumenten), maar niet als alles in 1
>> keer overgenomen wordt
>>
>> m
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV Crab Import : gebruik van meerdere lagen

[Jo]

Die bedenking maakte ik me gisteren ook. In het geval van Urbis hebben we
bestanden ter beschikking gesteld met een hele gemeente tegelijk en dan zit
je met 2 lagen, maar als je die straat per straat binnenkrijgt via remote
control, kan je ze toch meteen in je actieve laag binnenhalen?

Wat je wel zou kunnen doen, is gebruik maken van de todoplugin, om te
zorgen dat je ze allemaal behandeld hebt voordat je gaat doorsturen naar de
server.

Jo


Op 9 november 2013 07:55 schreef Marc Gemis :

> Om nog even terug  te komen op het gebruik van 2 lagen bij de import van
> Crab data. Wat is het nut als we toch de volledige laag in 1 keer copieren
> naar de laag met osm gegevens ?
>
> Ik begrijp het nut als je maar een deel van de import laag zou copieren
> (zoals bij bushaltes of beschermde monumenten), maar niet als alles in 1
> keer overgenomen wordt
>
> m
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Hallo Bart,

Om het eens van een niet specialist te horen. Ik ben gelukkig ineens
begonnen met JOSM.  Als ik op het forum iets hoor uitleggen snap ik er
meestal niets van. Scripts en sneltoetsen zijn aan mij niet besteed. Maar
het weinige wat ik doe gaat heel goed met JOSM en regelmatig leer ik toch
een beetje bij. Ik maak dankbaar gebruik van het menus 'Voorkeuze' en
'gereedschappen'. De echte freak zal waarschijnlijk sneller met enkele
shorcuts dezelfde gegevens kunnen inbrengen maar op mijn manier gaat het ook
en worden dikwijls automatisch 'tags' toegevoegd die je anders zou kunnen
vergeten. 
Dus...probeer het, je zal het je niet beklagen. 

Guy Vanvuchelen

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Bart Van Lancker [mailto:b...@vlweb.net] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 18 oktober 2013 9:43
Aan: 'OpenStreetMap Belgium'
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

Hallo,

Is het mogelijk om ook in Potlatch de "betere" AGIV achtergrond te
verkrijgen ? Ik gebruik tot nu toe vooral Bing maar de kwaliteit van de
luchtfoto laat inderdaad te wensen over, en de beelden zijn ook al twee jaar
oud.

Is JOSM echt beter/gemakkelijker dan Potlatch ?

Groeten

Bart


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Jo]

Of het gemakkelijker is, hangt af van waar je aan gewend geraakt bent. JOSM
heeft alleszins meer mogelijkheden. Potlatch is zo'n beetje een dood spoor.
Daar wordt niet meer aan verder ontwikkeld.

Kom vanavond meekijken op de hangout. Marc gaat het een en ander
demonstreren. Als hij klaar is, ga ik met Hervé een hangout doen over
busroutes. Hervé heeft alle haltes uit de data van De Lijn rond Herentals
toegevoegd en nu ga ik hem (en eventueel andere geïnteresseerden) tonen hoe
de routerelaties automatisch gecreëerd kunnen worden a.d.h.v. de data van
De Lijn.
​
Dat levert een aantal relaties op waarin alle haltes in de juiste volgorde
zitten (eigenlijk levert het heel wat varianten op). Aangezien het mogelijk
is om JOSM te scripten, heb ik iets gemaakt dat automatisch de
dichtstbijgelegen straten ook toevoegt. Deze zitten dan ook al in de juiste
volgorde. Dan is het een kwestie van de tussengelegen stukken toe te voegen
(en de stukken die onjuist waren er weer uit te halen...) en voilà: een
busroute extra. Rinse and repeat voor alle varianten.

Dat soort dingen proberen te doen in Potlatch of ID is eigenlijk onbegonnen
werk.

Jo
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Marc Gemis]

Hallo Bart,

Ik denk dat het als eindgebruiker (=mapper) niet mogelijk is om de
achtergrond van Potlatch of iD in te stellen. Je kan dit misschien wel
bekomen als je developers vertelt dat er een andere source voor de beelden
is. Maar of er nog ontwikkeling aan Potlatch gedaan wordt, betwijfel ik.
JOSM zal vast in het begin wat moeilijker zijn dan Potlatch, maar is
uiteindelijk veel flexibeler dan de 2 andere editors. Kom vanavond gerust
eens een kijkje nemen op de google hangout, dan kan je zelf een beeld
vormen van wat JOSM kan en hoe het verschilt van de andere editors.
En er zijn genoeg mensen hier op het forum om je met raad en daad bij te
staan als je de overstap maakt. Probeer hem alvast eens te downloaden en te
installeren. Kijk hiervoor op http://josm.openstreetmap.de

groeten

m


2013/10/18 Bart Van Lancker 

> Hallo,
>
> Is het mogelijk om ook in Potlatch de "betere" AGIV achtergrond te
> verkrijgen ? Ik gebruik tot nu toe vooral Bing maar de kwaliteit van de
> luchtfoto laat inderdaad te wensen over, en de beelden zijn ook al twee
> jaar
> oud.
>
> Is JOSM echt beter/gemakkelijker dan Potlatch ?
>
> Groeten
>
> Bart
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Bart Van Lancker]

Hallo,

Is het mogelijk om ook in Potlatch de "betere" AGIV achtergrond te
verkrijgen ? Ik gebruik tot nu toe vooral Bing maar de kwaliteit van de
luchtfoto laat inderdaad te wensen over, en de beelden zijn ook al twee jaar
oud.

Is JOSM echt beter/gemakkelijker dan Potlatch ?

Groeten

Bart


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

Thanks, feel free to do so if you spot mistakes. It's a quick translation...

There is now also a link to the original license.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen



On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Kurt Roeckx  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 06:43:03PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 06:03:00PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> > > And a translate into english:
> > >
> > >
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders
> >
> > Maybe we should add (a pointer to) the Ducth version, and say it's
> > a translation?
>
> I made some changes in the wordings.
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 06:43:03PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 06:03:00PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> > And a translate into english:
> > 
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders
> 
> Maybe we should add (a pointer to) the Ducth version, and say it's
> a translation?

I made some changes in the wordings.


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 06:03:00PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> And a translate into english:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders

Maybe we should add (a pointer to) the Ducth version, and say it's
a translation?


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Marc Gemis]

You mean that you updated the administrative borders is OSM ? :-)

m


On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Ben Abelshausen
wrote:

> Haha ok! Fixed!
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Pieter Colpaert  > wrote:
>
>> Yes, haven't you heard the news?
>>
>> ;)
>>
>>
>> On 09/12/2013 06:26 PM, Gilbert Hersschens wrote:
>>
>>> Small error in the Wiki entry: Flanders, Germany ???
>>>
>>> Gilbert
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 September 2013 18:03, Ben Abelshausen 
>>> >> ben.abelshausen@gmail.**com >> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have done the following already for the import guidelines:
>>>
>>> Entry in the import catalogue:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Import/Catalogue#**
>>> Community_Imports
>>>
>>> Entry in the Contributors page:
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Contributors#AGIV
>>>
>>> And a translate into english:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_**
>>> open_data_licence_Flanders
>>>
>>> And an import plan:
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import=>
>>>  this is
>>> still unfinished because we need to have a clear procedure before
>>> this can be completed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>
>>> __**_
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>>> >> >
>>> 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

I have done the following already for the import guidelines:

Entry in the import catalogue:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue#Community_Imports

Entry in the Contributors page:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#AGIV

And a translate into english:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders

And an import plan:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import => this is still
unfinished because we need to have a clear procedure before this can be
completed.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

Haha ok! Fixed!

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen



On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Pieter Colpaert
wrote:

> Yes, haven't you heard the news?
>
> ;)
>
>
> On 09/12/2013 06:26 PM, Gilbert Hersschens wrote:
>
>> Small error in the Wiki entry: Flanders, Germany ???
>>
>> Gilbert
>>
>>
>> On 12 September 2013 18:03, Ben Abelshausen 
>> > ben.abelshausen@gmail.**com >> wrote:
>>
>> I have done the following already for the import guidelines:
>>
>> Entry in the import catalogue:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Import/Catalogue#**
>> Community_Imports
>>
>> Entry in the Contributors page:
>>
>> 
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Contributors#AGIV
>>
>> And a translate into english:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_**
>> open_data_licence_Flanders
>>
>> And an import plan:
>>
>> 
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import=>
>>  this is
>> still unfinished because we need to have a clear procedure before
>> this can be completed.
>>
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>>
>> __**_
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>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
>> > >
>> 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Pieter Colpaert]

Yes, haven't you heard the news?

;)

On 09/12/2013 06:26 PM, Gilbert Hersschens wrote:

Small error in the Wiki entry: Flanders, Germany ???

Gilbert


On 12 September 2013 18:03, Ben Abelshausen > wrote:


I have done the following already for the import guidelines:

Entry in the import catalogue:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue#Community_Imports

Entry in the Contributors page:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#AGIV

And a translate into english:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders

And an import plan:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import => this is
still unfinished because we need to have a clear procedure before
this can be completed.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Gilbert Hersschens]

Small error in the Wiki entry: Flanders, Germany ???

Gilbert


On 12 September 2013 18:03, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

> I have done the following already for the import guidelines:
>
> Entry in the import catalogue:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue#Community_Imports
>
> Entry in the Contributors page:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#AGIV
>
> And a translate into english:
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import/Free_open_data_licence_Flanders
>
> And an import plan:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AGIV_CRAB_Import => this is still
> unfinished because we need to have a clear procedure before this can be
> completed.
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

Not at the moment. There could still be some problems after sending the
license to the imports-list. I have confirmation from someone at AGIV that
attribution on the wiki will be enough but i'm still not sure that will
convince everybody.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Pieter Colpaert
wrote:

> Sounds great Ben!
>
> Are you still waiting for me to do something?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On 09/12/2013 02:11 PM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are translating the license to put on the wiki and then will start the
>> regular import-procedure. Sending an email to the imports-list and so on...
>>
>> I will also use pieter colpaerts script (https://github.com/**
>> pietercolpaert/crab-tools )
>> to convert to csv and send this to frederik rodrigo to test the system to
>> help integrate the data.
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Kurt Roeckx > k...@roeckx.be>> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Maybe we should wait until Pieter has some kind of response for
>> us. I would
>> > like to send something to the DWG that can be verified and is
>> backed by
>> > some facts. Otherwise there will a be discussion about
>> technicalities that
>> > might not matter at all.
>> >
>> > We will have less difficulty if we have all the details before
>> we ask the
>> > DWG or send something to the imports-list.
>> >
>> > Also a translation of the license can still be useful.
>>
>> So do you have any news on that?
>>
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Pieter Colpaert]

Sounds great Ben!

Are you still waiting for me to do something?

Kind regards,

Pieter

On 09/12/2013 02:11 PM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

Hi,

We are translating the license to put on the wiki and then will start 
the regular import-procedure. Sending an email to the imports-list and 
so on...


I will also use pieter colpaerts script 
(https://github.com/pietercolpaert/crab-tools) to convert to csv and 
send this to frederik rodrigo to test the system to help integrate the 
data.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Kurt Roeckx > wrote:


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Maybe we should wait until Pieter has some kind of response for
us. I would
> like to send something to the DWG that can be verified and is
backed by
> some facts. Otherwise there will a be discussion about
technicalities that
> might not matter at all.
>
> We will have less difficulty if we have all the details before
we ask the
> DWG or send something to the imports-list.
>
> Also a translation of the license can still be useful.

So do you have any news on that?


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

Hi,

We are translating the license to put on the wiki and then will start the
regular import-procedure. Sending an email to the imports-list and so on...

I will also use pieter colpaerts script (
https://github.com/pietercolpaert/crab-tools) to convert to csv and send
this to frederik rodrigo to test the system to help integrate the data.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Kurt Roeckx  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Maybe we should wait until Pieter has some kind of response for us. I
> would
> > like to send something to the DWG that can be verified and is backed by
> > some facts. Otherwise there will a be discussion about technicalities
> that
> > might not matter at all.
> >
> > We will have less difficulty if we have all the details before we ask the
> > DWG or send something to the imports-list.
> >
> > Also a translation of the license can still be useful.
>
> So do you have any news on that?
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe we should wait until Pieter has some kind of response for us. I would
> like to send something to the DWG that can be verified and is backed by
> some facts. Otherwise there will a be discussion about technicalities that
> might not matter at all.
> 
> We will have less difficulty if we have all the details before we ask the
> DWG or send something to the imports-list.
> 
> Also a translation of the license can still be useful.

So do you have any news on that?


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Ben Abelshausen]

Hi,

Maybe we should wait until Pieter has some kind of response for us. I would
like to send something to the DWG that can be verified and is backed by
some facts. Otherwise there will a be discussion about technicalities that
might not matter at all.

We will have less difficulty if we have all the details before we ask the
DWG or send something to the imports-list.

Also a translation of the license can still be useful.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Kurt Roeckx  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 04:11:04PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > There is a new episode in the AGIV-CRAB-OSM story.
> >
> > Today they released the CRAB database using the new flanders open data
> > licence [1]. This means that now we can start the process of verification
> > with the Imports-list and the DWG that the licence is ok and we can start
> > using AGIV as a source when mapping.
> >
> > I will take care of this but help is always welcome. If there is someone
> > dutch-speaking here with a verifiable legal experitse that could help me
> > translate the licence into english and discuss with the DWG that would be
> > nice.
> >
> > What I understand from reading the licence [2] using this data in the
> > context of OSM should not be a problem anymore except for the need to
> > mention the source when distributing the data. This should not be a
> problem
> > because I have confirmation from someone at AGIV that a source-mention on
> > the wiki is enough for them. This means they will consider themselves one
> > of the "© OpenStreetMap contributors" :-) !
>
> Reading the license, I can see no problem at all.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean with "verifiable legal experitse".  I'm
> not a lawyer, but I did read many license to check that they are
> free or not.  If that is good enough I'm willing to help with
> getting this officially approved.
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 04:11:04PM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> There is a new episode in the AGIV-CRAB-OSM story.
> 
> Today they released the CRAB database using the new flanders open data
> licence [1]. This means that now we can start the process of verification
> with the Imports-list and the DWG that the licence is ok and we can start
> using AGIV as a source when mapping.
> 
> I will take care of this but help is always welcome. If there is someone
> dutch-speaking here with a verifiable legal experitse that could help me
> translate the licence into english and discuss with the DWG that would be
> nice.
> 
> What I understand from reading the licence [2] using this data in the
> context of OSM should not be a problem anymore except for the need to
> mention the source when distributing the data. This should not be a problem
> because I have confirmation from someone at AGIV that a source-mention on
> the wiki is enough for them. This means they will consider themselves one
> of the "© OpenStreetMap contributors" :-) !

Reading the license, I can see no problem at all.

I'm not sure what you mean with "verifiable legal experitse".  I'm
not a lawyer, but I did read many license to check that they are
free or not.  If that is good enough I'm willing to help with
getting this officially approved.


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Nicolas Pettiaux]

2013/8/30 eMerzh 

> Yeah good news indeed ...
> After Brussels, if this is true ... we need only smth from wallonia and
> osm in Belgium will be awesome :)
>
indeed

We can hope that such a process (Brussels and Flanders sharing ther data)
will help persuade Wallonia to do the same.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Pieter Colpaert]

FYI,

I've forwarded this to some legal people at OKFN and to the Flemish 
government department responsible for the licenses.


Pieter

On 08/30/2013 04:11 PM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

Hello,

There is a new episode in the AGIV-CRAB-OSM story.

Today they released the CRAB database using the new flanders open data 
licence [1]. This means that now we can start the process of 
verification with the Imports-list and the DWG that the licence is ok 
and we can start using AGIV as a source when mapping.


I will take care of this but help is always welcome. If there is 
someone dutch-speaking here with a verifiable legal experitse that 
could help me translate the licence into english and discuss with the 
DWG that would be nice.


What I understand from reading the licence [2] using this data in the 
context of OSM should not be a problem anymore except for the need to 
mention the source when distributing the data. This should not be a 
problem because I have confirmation from someone at AGIV that a 
source-mention on the wiki is enough for them. This means they will 
consider themselves one of the "© OpenStreetMap contributors" :-) !


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

[1] http://agiv.be/gis/nieuws/?artid=2179
[2] http://agiv.be/gis/producten/?artid=2101



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2013-08-30 16:11, Ben Abelshausen
  wrote :
  
...

Today they released the CRAB database using the
  new flanders open data licence [1]. This means that now we can
  start the process of verification with the Imports-list and
  the DWG that the licence is ok and we can start using AGIV as
  a source when mapping.
  ...

  
  On 2013-08-30 16:59, eMerzh wrote :


  Yeah good news indeed ... 
After Brussels, if this is true ... we need only smth from
wallonia and osm in Belgium will be awesome :)
  

It's now 3 to 4 years that I asked the SPW directly and through
various channels to at least support ESPG:4326 etc. (instead of just
Lambert), and now WMS, on their existing servers to be able
to do something serious manually.  I corrected mapping that
was 10, 20, 50 and up to 120m away.
Lately, that was answering to a survey asking "what do you need?".

Cheers,


  

  André.

  


  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[eMerzh]

Yeah good news indeed ...
After Brussels, if this is true ... we need only smth from wallonia and osm
in Belgium will be awesome :)
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Julien Fastré]

good news !

Julien

Le 30/08/13 16:11, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :

Hello,

There is a new episode in the AGIV-CRAB-OSM story.

Today they released the CRAB database using the new flanders open data 
licence [1]. This means that now we can start the process of 
verification with the Imports-list and the DWG that the licence is ok 
and we can start using AGIV as a source when mapping.


I will take care of this but help is always welcome. If there is 
someone dutch-speaking here with a verifiable legal experitse that 
could help me translate the licence into english and discuss with the 
DWG that would be nice.


What I understand from reading the licence [2] using this data in the 
context of OSM should not be a problem anymore except for the need to 
mention the source when distributing the data. This should not be a 
problem because I have confirmation from someone at AGIV that a 
source-mention on the wiki is enough for them. This means they will 
consider themselves one of the "© OpenStreetMap contributors" :-) !


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

[1] http://agiv.be/gis/nieuws/?artid=2179
[2] http://agiv.be/gis/producten/?artid=2101



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[André Pirard]

On 2013-07-15 21:41, Marc Gemis wrote :
> This change is made during the afternoon. There was no problem during
> my lunch break. I see the same dialog now.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Gilbert Hersschens
> mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> What's happening? When I use AGIV for imagery in JOSM it
> constantly asks for user and password. Since I don't have an
> account I just click "Cancel" or "Exit" and it eventually starts
> returning red "ERROR" tiles.
> Cant' we use the images anymore ?
>

No problem here.

Cheers,

André.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[Marc Gemis]

This change is made during the afternoon. There was no problem during my
lunch break. I see the same dialog now.


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Gilbert Hersschens
wrote:

> What's happening? When I use AGIV for imagery in JOSM it constantly asks
> for user and password. Since I don't have an account I just click "Cancel"
> or "Exit" and it eventually starts returning red "ERROR" tiles.
> Cant' we use the images anymore ?
>
> Gilbert
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:39:44AM +0200, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> Hi Again,
> 
> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.

Do you know the text of the disclaimer they want?

The ODBL itself has this disclaimer in it:
7.0 Warranties and Disclaimer

7.1 The Database is licensed by the Licensor "as is" and without
any warranty of any kind, either express, implied, or arising by
statute, custom, course of dealing, or trade usage. Licensor
specifically disclaims any and all implied warranties or
conditions of title, non-infringement, accuracy or completeness,
the presence or absence of errors, fitness for a particular
purpose, merchantability, or otherwise. Some jurisdictions do not
allow the exclusion of implied warranties, so this exclusion may
not apply to You.

8.0 Limitation of liability

8.1 Subject to any liability that may not be excluded or limited
by law, the Licensor is not liable for, and expressly excludes,
all liability for loss or damage however and whenever caused to
anyone by any use under this License, whether by You or by anyone
else, and whether caused by any fault on the part of the Licensor
or not. This exclusion of liability includes, but is not limited
to, any special, incidental, consequential, punitive, or exemplary
damages such as loss of revenue, data, anticipated profits, and
lost business. This exclusion applies even if the Licensor has
been advised of the possibility of such damages.

8.2 If liability may not be excluded by law, it is limited to
actual and direct financial loss to the extent it is caused by
proved negligence on the part of the Licensor.


The part that is under CC-BY-SA has:
5. Representations, Warranties and Disclaimer

UNLESS OTHERWISE AGREED TO BY THE PARTIES IN WRITING, LICENSOR
OFFERS THE WORK AS-IS AND MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES
OF ANY KIND CONCERNING THE MATERIALS, EXPRESS, IMPLIED, STATUTORY
OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF TITLE,
MERCHANTIBILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE,
NONINFRINGEMENT, OR THE ABSENCE OF LATENT OR OTHER DEFECTS,
ACCURACY, OR THE PRESENCE OF ABSENCE OF ERRORS, WHETHER OR NOT
DISCOVERABLE. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF
IMPLIED WARRANTIES, SO SUCH EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

6. Limitation on Liability. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT REQUIRED BY
APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL LICENSOR BE LIABLE TO YOU ON ANY
LEGAL THEORY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE
OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THIS LICENSE OR THE USE OF THE
WORK, EVEN IF LICENSOR HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2013-06-01 17:41, Johan C wrote :
> Will AGIV accept attribution on this
> page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use
> the data under ODbL?
Note that a similar problem occurs when people add OSM data to Google Maps.
> You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long
> as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. If you alter or
> build upon our data, you may distribute the result only under the same
> licence.
> ...
>
> For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner
> of the map. For example:
>
However, Google's general license
 is that any uploaded
data becomes their property and that it's not allowed to copy it back
!!!  That's a blatant infringement of OSM's copyright !!!
The "corner of the map" is obviously not applicable and the OSM source:
tag must be used.
But who knows where Google source tag is?

It hurts me to see OSM people so meticulous and Google careless.

Cheers,

André.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Jo]

What we're trying to do at the moment is hopefully convince Toerisme
Vlaanderen's provincial subsidiaries that we can provide them with valuable
feedback where there are errors in their data, but in return we'd like to
get full access to their data.

Say we get permission to import the routes we don't have yet from their
data. The next time you go out for a walk, you have less work to do as you
only have to take note of where you find differences.

The same applies to house numbers. The next mapping party in Brussels will
be a bit different than what we did before. On 6 and 7 July we'll go out to
look for discrepancies in the address data which came from UrbIS and we'll
be able to concentrate on adding shops and other amenity information, maybe
where the entrances are and if it's possible to get in with a wheelchair,
who knows.

Jo



2013/6/1 Marc Gemis 

> Why would I compare my data with e.g. the data from Tourisme Vlaanderen.
> Today, during a walk of 8km, I found 1 node that was numbered incorrectly,
> 1 that was placed a few hundrerd meters away from the official position and
> a path that was layed out different from their map.
>
> So I would never use their data, but immediately take my survey data.
>
> For house numbers it's a bit different. I (would) use the AGIV data to
> verify my surveyed data in case the number looks weird. (e.g. when I made a
> typo on my GPS or when I was too lazy to walk in an alley and only have the
> range of numbers).
>
> I really don't see many benefits if you have to compare survey data with
> "official" data. If you import everything automatically and you gain a lot
> of time because you don't need to survey. But otherwise I always prefer my
> surveyed data.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Pieter Colpaert 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then
>> choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful
>> owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who
>> entered the correct data manually?
>>
>> Another question, what's the legal difference between:
>>  - going to each house manually and
>>  - comparing/scraping datasets?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>>> I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the
>>> source mention on that page.
>>> Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway.
>>>
>>> Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data
>>> that made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply
>>> be corrected and people will move on.
>>>
>>> Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs
>>> and feed back a report about it.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/6/1 Johan C 
>>>
 Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the
 data under ODbL?

 Cheers, Johan


 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 

> @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)
>
> I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>>
>> m.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would
>>> really help us a lot either.
>>>
>>> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the
>>> data?
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>>
 Hi Again,

 Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about
 the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also
 explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just 
 add
 a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.

 *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*

 Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this.
 I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no 
 plans
 in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 
 2015
 but that descision was still to be made...

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/xivk

 On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
> response.
>

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Marc Gemis]

Why would I compare my data with e.g. the data from Tourisme Vlaanderen.
Today, during a walk of 8km, I found 1 node that was numbered incorrectly,
1 that was placed a few hundrerd meters away from the official position and
a path that was layed out different from their map.

So I would never use their data, but immediately take my survey data.

For house numbers it's a bit different. I (would) use the AGIV data to
verify my surveyed data in case the number looks weird. (e.g. when I made a
typo on my GPS or when I was too lazy to walk in an alley and only have the
range of numbers).

I really don't see many benefits if you have to compare survey data with
"official" data. If you import everything automatically and you gain a lot
of time because you don't need to survey. But otherwise I always prefer my
surveyed data.


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Pieter Colpaert wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then
> choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful
> owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who
> entered the correct data manually?
>
> Another question, what's the legal difference between:
>  - going to each house manually and
>  - comparing/scraping datasets?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the
>> source mention on that page.
>> Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway.
>>
>> Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data
>> that made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply
>> be corrected and people will move on.
>>
>> Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs
>> and feed back a report about it.
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2013/6/1 Johan C 
>>
>>> Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the
>>> data under ODbL?
>>>
>>> Cheers, Johan
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>>
 @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)

 I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/xivk



 On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:

> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>
> m.
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would
>> really help us a lot either.
>>
>> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the
>> data?
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>
>>> Hi Again,
>>>
>>> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about
>>> the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also
>>> explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just 
>>> add
>>> a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>>>
>>> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>>>
>>> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
>>> also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no 
>>> plans
>>> in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 
>>> 2015
>>> but that descision was still to be made...
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
 response.

 Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/xivk



 On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
 pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the
> Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day 
> is
> going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just 
> need to
> convince AGIV to start using the right ones:
>
> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>
>> Bad news!
>>

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Jo]

2013/6/1 Pieter Colpaert 

> Hi all,
>
> Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then
> choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful
> owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who
> entered the correct data manually?
>
> Another question, what's the legal difference between:
>  - going to each house manually and
>

In this case we are taking note of our own observation independently of
somebody's dataset.


 - comparing/scraping datasets?
>

When comparing with somebody else's data it's important they are agreeable
to such use of their data. Openstreetmap prefers to err on the safe side as
far as this is concerned.


It would be nice to have access to as many datasets as possible, so we can
compare and try to draw conclusions from this. We are nice too, in the
sense that we give all these sources the opportunity to check back and
improve their own data in the process.

Jo
___
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Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Pieter Colpaert]

Hi all,

Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then
choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful
owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who
entered the correct data manually?

Another question, what's the legal difference between:
 - going to each house manually and
 - comparing/scraping datasets?

Kind regards,

Pieter


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Jo  wrote:

> I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the
> source mention on that page.
> Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway.
>
> Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data that
> made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply be
> corrected and people will move on.
>
> Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs
> and feed back a report about it.
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2013/6/1 Johan C 
>
>> Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data
>> under ODbL?
>>
>> Cheers, Johan
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>
>>> @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)
>>>
>>> I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>>
 So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers

 m.


 On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:

> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would
> really help us a lot either.
>
> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the
> data?
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>
>> Hi Again,
>>
>> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
>> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also 
>> explained
>> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
>> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>>
>> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>>
>> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
>> also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans
>> in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 
>> 2015
>> but that descision was still to be made...
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
>>> response.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
>>> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Ben,

 there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the
 Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day 
 is
 going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just 
 need to
 convince AGIV to start using the right ones:

 http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/

 Kind regards,

 Pieter


 On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

> Bad news!
>
> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse
> for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>
> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is
> reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we 
> cannot
> reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe 
> mapping
> based on it and not copying would be ok...
>
> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in
> beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and 
> are
> working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get 
> this
> data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by 
> then
> all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! 
> :-)
>
> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally
> being able to u

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Jo]

I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the
source mention on that page.
Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway.

Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data that
made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply be
corrected and people will move on.

Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs
and feed back a report about it.

Jo

2013/6/1 Johan C 

> Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data
> under ODbL?
>
> Cheers, Johan
>
>
> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>
>> @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)
>>
>> I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>
>>> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>>>
>>> m.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:
>>>
 I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would
 really help us a lot either.

 Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data?

 Jo


 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 

> Hi Again,
>
> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>
> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>
> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
> also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans
> in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 
> 2015
> but that descision was still to be made...
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
>> response.
>>
>> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
>> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>
>>> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the
>>> Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is
>>> going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need 
>>> to
>>> convince AGIV to start using the right ones:
>>>
>>> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>>
 Bad news!

 The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse
 for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.

 The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is
 reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we 
 cannot
 reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe 
 mapping
 based on it and not copying would be ok...

 In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in
 beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and 
 are
 working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get 
 this
 data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by 
 then
 all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)

 I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally
 being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about 
 what
 usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of 
 just
 geocoding on the main OSM-website.

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
 
 http://twitter.com/xivk



 __**_
 Talk-be mailing list
 Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Johan C]

Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data
under ODbL?

Cheers, Johan


2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 

> @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)
>
> I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
>
>> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>>
>> m.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really
>>> help us a lot either.
>>>
>>> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data?
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>>
 Hi Again,

 Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
 licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
 why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
 disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.

 *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*

 Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
 also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans
 in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
 but that descision was still to be made...

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/xivk

 On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
> response.
>
> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the
>> Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is
>> going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need 
>> to
>> convince AGIV to start using the right ones:
>>
>> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>>
>> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>
>>> Bad news!
>>>
>>> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse
>>> for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>>>
>>> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is
>>> reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot
>>> reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe 
>>> mapping
>>> based on it and not copying would be ok...
>>>
>>> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in
>>> beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and 
>>> are
>>> working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this
>>> data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by 
>>> then
>>> all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>>>
>>> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being
>>> able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what 
>>> usage
>>> in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
>>> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
>>> >> >
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> Talk-be mailing list
>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>
>

 ___
 Talk-be mailing list
 Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be


>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/ta

Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Ben Abelshausen]

@marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)

I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/xivk



On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>
> m.
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really
>> help us a lot either.
>>
>> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data?
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>>
>>> Hi Again,
>>>
>>> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
>>> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
>>> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
>>> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>>>
>>> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>>>
>>> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
>>> also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans
>>> in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
>>> but that descision was still to be made...
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
 response.

 Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
 http://twitter.com/xivk



 On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
 pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish
> Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to
> advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince
> AGIV to start using the right ones:
>
> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>
>> Bad news!
>>
>> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for
>> OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>>
>> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing
>> this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse 
>> this
>> data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on
>> it and not copying would be ok...
>>
>> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in
>> beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are
>> working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this
>> data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then
>> all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>>
>> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being
>> able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what 
>> usage
>> in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
>> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
>> > >
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>
>
> __**_
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-be
>


>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-be mailing list
>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Marc Gemis]

So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers

m.


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo  wrote:

> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really
> help us a lot either.
>
> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data?
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 
>
>> Hi Again,
>>
>> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
>> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
>> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
>> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>>
>> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>>
>> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also
>> asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in
>> that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
>> but that descision was still to be made...
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
>>> response.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
>>> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Ben,

 there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish
 Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to
 advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince
 AGIV to start using the right ones:

 http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/

 Kind regards,

 Pieter


 On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

> Bad news!
>
> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for
> OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>
> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing
> this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse 
> this
> data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on
> it and not copying would be ok...
>
> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer!
> I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are 
> working
> on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data,
> including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all
> addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>
> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being
> able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage
> in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
>  >
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Jo]

I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really
help us a lot either.

Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data?

Jo

2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen 

> Hi Again,
>
> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
> licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
> why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
> disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>
> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>
> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also
> asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in
> that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
> but that descision was still to be made...
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response.
>>
>> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
>> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>
>>> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish
>>> Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to
>>> advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince
>>> AGIV to start using the right ones:
>>>
>>> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>>
 Bad news!

 The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for
 OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.

 The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing
 this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this
 data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on
 it and not copying would be ok...

 In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer!
 I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working
 on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data,
 including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all
 addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)

 I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being
 able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage
 in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
 geocoding on the main OSM-website.

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
 
 http://twitter.com/xivk



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Ben Abelshausen]

Hi Again,

Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the
licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained
why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a
disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.

*The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*

Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also
asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in
that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
but that descision was still to be made...

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/xivk

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen  wrote:

> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response.
>
> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/xivk
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
> pieter.colpa...@okfn.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish
>> Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to
>> advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince
>> AGIV to start using the right ones:
>>
>> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>>
>> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>
>>> Bad news!
>>>
>>> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for
>>> OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>>>
>>> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing
>>> this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this
>>> data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on
>>> it and not copying would be ok...
>>>
>>> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I
>>> did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working
>>> on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data,
>>> including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all
>>> addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>>>
>>> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being
>>> able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage
>>> in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
>>> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
>>> >> >
>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Ben Abelshausen]

OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response.

Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/xivk



On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert
wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish
> Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to
> advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince
> AGIV to start using the right ones:
>
> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>
>> Bad news!
>>
>> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for
>> OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>>
>> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing
>> this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this
>> data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on
>> it and not copying would be ok...
>>
>> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I
>> did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working
>> on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data,
>> including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all
>> addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>>
>> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able
>> to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in
>> OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
>> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>> ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
>> > >
>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

[Pieter Colpaert]

Hi Ben,

there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish 
Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going 
to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to 
convince AGIV to start using the right ones:


http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/

Kind regards,

Pieter

On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:

Bad news!

The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for 
OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.


The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing 
this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse 
this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping 
based on it and not copying would be ok...


In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! 
I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are 
working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get 
this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe 
by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the 
reference! :-)


I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being 
able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what 
usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of 
just geocoding on the main OSM-website.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
ben.abelshau...@gmail.com 
http://twitter.com/xivk



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV

[André Pirard]

On 2013-04-09 23:00, Glenn Plas wrote :

On 04/09/2013 10:56 PM, Jo wrote:

I'm trying it out, of course.
It still seems to have the problem with the constant need of having 
to use 'change resolution'. It would be great if that could be solved 
as well somehow, but it may simply be a JOSM problem as well.


Jo
I'm still trying to fix some stuff, it seems every request is 
generating a cache MISS due to the fact WMS is by definition not to be 
cached.  Cache-Control sent by AGIV server is 'private' which 
complicates things (I have to get that header out and replace it with 
some expirations).


I'm looking at MapProxy at this point, see 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/MapProxy , it can probably do what you ask.
www.mapproxy.org    mapproxy nicely caches WMS 
in tiles.  According to Mapproxy mailing list 
 and my own experience, its cache 
never expires (you must clean it up "manually").
You will be able to access your cache with WMS or TMS; that may make a 
slight difference, but I expect nothing much to solve your resolution 
change problem.
I have made comments on the mailing list 
including warning about 
inconsiderate automatic resolution level changes.  That problem is 
inherent to JOSM and the same for all servers.


Cheers,

André.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Bedankt. Het lukt.

Voor wie het ook wil proberen: na zoomen in ‘Lagen’ op ‘AGIV’ rechtsklikken en 
in het keuzemenu kiezen voor ‘Resolutie Veranderen’.

 

Guy Vanvuchelen

 

Van: Jo [mailto:winfi...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 26 maart 2013 15:30
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

 

F12
WMS/TMS
+ WMS
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?

Get layers

Middenschalige orthofotomozaiek...
 (niet de vliegdagcontouren)

Name for this layer:
AGIV

OK

Dan in het menu imagery de laag toevoegen, zodat ze getoond wordt.

Geduldig wachten totdat de tegels geladen worden/gecached zijn.

Groeten,

Jo

Op 26 maart 2013 13:26 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen  
het volgende:

Graag zou ik die AGIV foto’s ook gebruiken in JOSM…alleen weet ik niet hoe het 
moet. Het bericht van Erik heeft er voor gezorgd dat ik enige vooruitgang 
gemaakt heb, maar toch lukt het nog niet.

Via F12 en WMS heb ik de URL toegevoegd in het menu: ‘Voorkeuren voor 
achtergrondafbeeldingen/luchtfoto’s. Daar staat die URL bij de ‘geselecteerde 
items’. (Ik krijg hem niet bij de ‘Beschikbare standaard items’(. Bij de 
geselecteerde items staan de andere in het groen maar die van AGIV niet. 

Ik kan nu in het menu ‘Lagen’ kiezen voor wms.agiv.be: Vliegdagcontour 
middenschalige orthfotomozaiek, Vlaanderen…’ maar dat resulteert in de tekst 
“AGIV” verspreid over het scherm. Geen beeld te zien.

 

 

Guy Vanvuchelen

 

Van: EeBie [mailto:ebe...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 26 maart 2013 0:14
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

 

Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM.  Je kunt nu de wegen 
zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen.  

Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd: 
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het. 

Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het 
inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en 
kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'. 

Of kan het beter?

 

Groeten,

 

Erik

2013/3/25 André Pirard 

On 13-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :

Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live with:

wms:http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg 
<http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS=%7Bproj%7D&WIDTH=%7Bwidth%7D&HEIGHT=%7Bheight%7D&BBOX=%7Bbbox%7D>
 
&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}

Jo

You complained that its results are not as good as 
http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
You should use the service URL  
http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the viewer.
But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full configuration.
I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
Tell me if it works now.

Cheers, 


André.

 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[Jo]

F12
WMS/TMS
+ WMS
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?

Get layers

Middenschalige orthofotomozaiek...
 (niet de vliegdagcontouren)

Name for this layer:
AGIV

OK

Dan in het menu imagery de laag toevoegen, zodat ze getoond wordt.

Geduldig wachten totdat de tegels geladen worden/gecached zijn.

Groeten,

Jo

Op 26 maart 2013 13:26 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen  het volgende:

> Graag zou ik die AGIV foto’s ook gebruiken in JOSM…alleen weet ik niet hoe
> het moet. Het bericht van Erik heeft er voor gezorgd dat ik enige
> vooruitgang gemaakt heb, maar toch lukt het nog niet.
>
> Via F12 en WMS heb ik de URL toegevoegd in het menu: ‘Voorkeuren voor
> achtergrondafbeeldingen/luchtfoto’s. Daar staat die URL bij de
> ‘geselecteerde items’. (Ik krijg hem niet bij de ‘Beschikbare standaard
> items’(. Bij de geselecteerde items staan de andere in het groen maar die
> van AGIV niet. 
>
> Ik kan nu in het menu ‘Lagen’ kiezen voor wms.agiv.be: Vliegdagcontour
> middenschalige orthfotomozaiek, Vlaanderen…’ maar dat resulteert in de
> tekst “AGIV” verspreid over het scherm. Geen beeld te zien.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Guy Vanvuchelen
>
> ** **
>
> *Van:* EeBie [mailto:ebe...@gmail.com]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 26 maart 2013 0:14
> *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning
>
> ** **
>
> Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM.  Je kunt nu de
> wegen zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen.  *
> ***
>
> Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het. 
>
> Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het
> inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en
> kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'. 
>
> Of kan het beter?
>
>  
>
> Groeten,
>
>  
>
> Erik
>
> 2013/3/25 André Pirard 
>
> On 13-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :
>
> Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live
> with:
>
> wms:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}
>
> Jo
>
> You complained that its results are not as good as
> http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
> But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
> You should use the service URL
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
> It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the viewer.
> But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full
> configuration.
> I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
> I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
> Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
> Tell me if it works now.
>
> Cheers, 
>
> André.
>
> ** **
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[Jo]

die wms is veel trager dan die van Bing, misschien moet je wat langer
wachten?

Dit is de url die ik nu gebruik en die vrij goed werkt (Al heb ik het beeld
niet meer vergeleken met wat op de website beschikbaar is):

wms:
http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?FORMAT=image/png&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}&TRANSPARENT=YES&LAYERS=grb_bsk,grb_gbg,grb_sel,grb_adp

Jo

Op 26 maart 2013 13:26 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen  het volgende:

> Graag zou ik die AGIV foto’s ook gebruiken in JOSM…alleen weet ik niet hoe
> het moet. Het bericht van Erik heeft er voor gezorgd dat ik enige
> vooruitgang gemaakt heb, maar toch lukt het nog niet.
>
> Via F12 en WMS heb ik de URL toegevoegd in het menu: ‘Voorkeuren voor
> achtergrondafbeeldingen/luchtfoto’s. Daar staat die URL bij de
> ‘geselecteerde items’. (Ik krijg hem niet bij de ‘Beschikbare standaard
> items’(. Bij de geselecteerde items staan de andere in het groen maar die
> van AGIV niet. 
>
> Ik kan nu in het menu ‘Lagen’ kiezen voor wms.agiv.be: Vliegdagcontour
> middenschalige orthfotomozaiek, Vlaanderen…’ maar dat resulteert in de
> tekst “AGIV” verspreid over het scherm. Geen beeld te zien.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Guy Vanvuchelen
>
> ** **
>
> *Van:* EeBie [mailto:ebe...@gmail.com]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 26 maart 2013 0:14
> *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning
>
> ** **
>
> Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM.  Je kunt nu de
> wegen zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen.  *
> ***
>
> Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het. 
>
> Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het
> inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en
> kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'. 
>
> Of kan het beter?
>
>  
>
> Groeten,
>
>  
>
> Erik
>
> 2013/3/25 André Pirard 
>
> On 13-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :
>
> Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live
> with:
>
> wms:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}
>
> Jo
>
> You complained that its results are not as good as
> http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
> But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
> You should use the service URL
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
> It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the viewer.
> But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full
> configuration.
> I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
> I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
> Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
> Tell me if it works now.
>
> Cheers, 
>
> André.
>
> ** **
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Graag zou ik die AGIV foto’s ook gebruiken in JOSM…alleen weet ik niet hoe
het moet. Het bericht van Erik heeft er voor gezorgd dat ik enige
vooruitgang gemaakt heb, maar toch lukt het nog niet.

Via F12 en WMS heb ik de URL toegevoegd in het menu: ‘Voorkeuren voor
achtergrondafbeeldingen/luchtfoto’s. Daar staat die URL bij de
‘geselecteerde items’. (Ik krijg hem niet bij de ‘Beschikbare standaard
items’(. Bij de geselecteerde items staan de andere in het groen maar die
van AGIV niet. 

Ik kan nu in het menu ‘Lagen’ kiezen voor wms.agiv.be: Vliegdagcontour
middenschalige orthfotomozaiek, Vlaanderen…’ maar dat resulteert in de tekst
“AGIV” verspreid over het scherm. Geen beeld te zien.

 

 

Guy Vanvuchelen

 

Van: EeBie [mailto:ebe...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 26 maart 2013 0:14
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

 

Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM.  Je kunt nu de
wegen zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen.  

Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd:
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het. 

Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het
inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en
kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'. 

Of kan het beter?

 

Groeten,

 

Erik

2013/3/25 André Pirard 

On 13-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :

Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live
with:

wms:http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg
<http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS
&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS=%7Bproj%7D&WIDTH=%7Bwidth%7D&HEIGHT
=%7Bheight%7D&BBOX=%7Bbbox%7D>
&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WI
DTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}

Jo

You complained that its results are not as good as
http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
You should use the service URL
http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the viewer.
But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full
configuration.
I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
Tell me if it works now.

Cheers, 


André.

 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[EeBie]

Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM.  Je kunt nu de
wegen zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen.
Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd:
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het.
Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het
inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en
kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'.
Of kan het beter?

Groeten,

Erik

2013/3/25 André Pirard 

>  On 13-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :
>
> Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live
> with:
>
> wms:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}
>
> Jo
>
> You complained that its results are not as good as
> http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
> But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
> You should use the service URL
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
> It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the viewer.
> But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full
> configuration.
> I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
> I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
> Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
> Tell me if it works now.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2013-03-25 06:45, Jo wrote :

Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one
  I learned to live with:
  
  wms:http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}
  
  Jo

You complained that its results are not as good as http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
But that's simply because you use other WMS data.
You should use the service URL  http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?
It works beautifully and the results look the same as that of the
viewer.
But I must have made an error with the copy & paste of the full
configuration.
I should have let you select the layers yourself (ortho and RGB).
I can't notice my error if you don't tell me.
Don't forget to right-click>change resolution.
Tell me if it works now.

Cheers, 


  

  André.

  


  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV watuning

[Jo]

Unfortunately they don't work for me. This is the one I learned to live
with:

wms:
http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}

Jo

2013/3/25 André Pirard 

>  Hi,
>
> Aren't these two JOSM configurations what you wanted?
> Do they not work?
> Aren't you satisfied?
>
>
> wms:
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&STYLES=&SRS=
> {proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}&LAYERS=orthoklmx
>
> wms:
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?FORMAT=image/png&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&STYLES=&SRS=
> {proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}&TRANSPARENT=YES&LAYERS=grb_bsk,grb_gbg,grb_sel,grb_adp
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
> On 2013-03-19 03:17, A.Pirard wrote :
>
> On 2013-03-18 19:53, Jo wrote :
>
> zoom in on the area of interest on this site:
>
> http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true
>
> That  viewer issues requests like this:
>
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/tms/1.0.0/orthoklm@BPL72VL/13/4828/3716.png
> (for some beta time anyway)
>
> The zoom goes up to 15, but the maximum resolution it at 13 (as shown)
> after which the server stretches the image (scales it).
> These are nonstandard zoom levels to which JOSM's zoom level should be
> adjusted.
> JOSM configuration should be
> tms:
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/tms/1.0.0/orthoklm@WGS84VL/
> {zoom-*z*}/{x}/{y}.png
> But I was unable to find a working *z*.  That's always the problem with
> TMS when it's not standard.
> x and y could be swapped or x be bottom up, etc... A puzzle if it's not
> documented.
> The advantage of TMS is that the images (tiles) are not modified by the
> server.
>
> Anyway, the corresponding WMS configurations are:
>
> wms:
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&STYLES=&SRS=
> {proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}&LAYERS=orthoklmx
>
> It seems to me to have fairly the same resolution as the viewer.
> Don't forget to right-click-change resolution on the layer, especially
> after you zoomed in.
>
> wms:
> http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/?FORMAT=image/png&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&STYLES=&SRS=
> {proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}&TRANSPARENT=YES&LAYERS=grb_bsk,grb_gbg,grb_sel,grb_adp
>
> png is (much) better for the grb_* and jpeg for the orthos (equivalent but
> smaller images).
> Unfortunately, the grb images are not transparent (as in Wallonie).
> I still used &TRANSPARENT=YES in case they would.
> Play with the layers' transparency if you need so.
>
> compare the maximum resolution after you
> Install a wms layer on JOSM:
> I used this uri, but maybe it can be 'optimised':
>
> wms[12]:
> http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl?FORMAT=image/jpeg&VERSION=1.1.1&SERVICE=WMS&REQUEST=GetMap&LAYERS=Ortho&STYLES=&SRS={proj}&WIDTH={width}&HEIGHT={height}&BBOX={bbox}
>
> The 12 between [] stands for the maximum zoom level. I tried with values
> of 19, 21, 25, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. So I guess one could
> also simply omit it.
>
> The zoom limit prevents querying servers that return blank or error images
> when the resolution limit is exceeded.
> If you can determine the JOSM zoom level corresponding to the resolution
> limit (13 for TMS) you can use it.
> This will prevent uselessly getting stretched images from the server when
> JOSM itself can stretch them to the screen.
>
> I also tried to use it as tms layer, but no luck with that either.
>
> Did you have the same problem as I did (no image at any speed) or another?
> Tell me how you could get TMS working, anyone.
>
>
> Thanks for having a look at it.
>
> It's great to have 2 imagery sources. For some places it works like a time
> machine. For others sometimes Bing is clearer, ofthen AGIV is more
> revealing, as they had the good sense to shoot pictures in wintertime, when
> there is less foliage on the trees.
>
> It's even greater to have more ;-)  All sorts of maps can help figuring
> what one sees on a photo :-)
> Beware of Bing's error offset. Always zoom out to check or... check with
> another map.
>
> At the maximum possible resolution it would be just about perfect.
>
> I hope it will.  Tell me.  Have fun.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   Rambo.
>
> Jo
>
> Op 18 maart 2013 19:18 schreef A.Pirard.Papou het 
> volgende:
>
>> On 2013-03-12 08:13, Jo wrote :
>>
>>  Anderzijds is het wel wat vreemd dat wat JOSM in de WMS-laag laat zien
>>> duidelijk een lagere resolutie heeft, dan wat er op de website van AGIV
>>> zelf zichtbaar is. Het klinkt misschien wat ondankbaar, maar weten dat er
>>> betere kwaliteit beschikbaar is en het dan met minder duidelijke beelden
>>> moeten doen, is toch wat frustrerend.
>>>
>>> Het zou wel kunnen dat de URI d