Re: dispatcher wish list

[Mary Bull]

Hello Thomas!

On Thursday, September 23, 2004, 8:22 AM, you wrote:

MB>> Even I had a problem to solve, with only two accounts. If I set
MB>> one to automatically periodically check mail at short
MB>> intervals--say, like 8 minutes--and by coincidence I happen to
MB>> manually check mail on the other account (which I use much less)
MB>> at the same moment as the automatic mailcheck is kicking in, it
MB>> will hang the Connection Centre ...

TF> This must be a new bug in v3. Over here, I can use the dispatcher
TF> on two accounts at the same time.

I recall it happening as early as v. 2.06. Having had so many ISP
problems up to the date I got that, I assumed it was local to me and
did not complain to the list, as far as I remember.

Definitely not new. A bug in TB!? I don't know.

I'll test it. I haven't left Periodical Checking of mail on in my
comcast account while checking my 2servu account since moving to 3.xx.

Glad you suggested the bug idea. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat! 3.0.0.17 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: dispatcher wish list

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Mary,

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:24:54 -0500 GMT (23/09/2004, 09:24 +0700 GMT),
Mary Bull wrote:

MB> Even I had a problem to solve, with only two accounts. If I set one to
MB> automatically periodically check mail at short intervals--say, like 8
MB> minutes--and by coincidence I happen to manually check mail on the
MB> other account (which I use much less) at the same moment as the
MB> automatic mailcheck is kicking in, it will hang the Connection Centre
MB> and require the Task Manager in order to get out of The Bat! and start
MB> over. So: my work-around is to uncheck the Periodical Checking box
MB> when I go to look at the other account.

This must be a new bug in v3. Over here, I can use the dispatcher on
two accounts at the same time.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Things You Would Never Know Without the Movies: Every time a person
turns on the television to see the news, he instantly sees what he
wants and what concerns him.

Message reply created with The Bat! 2.12.02
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 





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Re: dispatcher wish list

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Deborah,

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:56:28 -0400 GMT (23/09/2004, 06:56 +0700 GMT),
Deborah Shaw wrote:

DS> Thomas Fernandez > Referring to Deborah's other question: No, it is
DS> not possible to pause the despatcher.
DS> +
DS> Am I the only one who'd find this useful?

No, I'd like it too. If you put it in the wishlist and post the URL
here, I'll second it.

DS> The only one with dial-up who gets buckets of mail? Is there *any*
DS> way to process mail in batches, perhaps with filters?

None that I know of.

DS> Also, is there a way to set the dispatcher to show you if a particular
DS> e-mail has an attachment, any attachment? And perhaps the attachment's
DS> file extension? As I said before, file size is not reliable.

Enable View / Header Autoview in the mail despatcher. I just checked
with a message that has an attachment and found this line in the
header:

Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C4A185.85F6C1C0"

That's the best the dispatcher can, I think.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to
everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone.  --
Andy Rooney

Message reply created with The Bat! 2.12.02
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Re: dispatcher wish list

[Mary Bull]

Hello Deborah!

On Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 6:56 PM, you wrote:

Thomas Fernandez >> Referring to Deborah's other question: No, it is
Thomas Fernandez >> not possible to pause the despatcher.

DS> +

DS> Am I the only one who'd find this useful? The only one with
DS> dial-up who gets buckets of mail? Is there *any* way to process
DS> mail in batches, perhaps with filters?

I have been very interested in this thread, because I used to be on
dial-up, and when my small local-company ISP sold out to a national
one I immediately began to have "buckets" of trouble about connection
and configuring connections, which yours sound quite similar to.

Yes, even on cable broadband I would like to be able to "pause" the
dispatcher. And there are others here who would like to control
selectively how the downloading of their accounts happens.

Even I had a problem to solve, with only two accounts. If I set one to
automatically periodically check mail at short intervals--say, like 8
minutes--and by coincidence I happen to manually check mail on the
other account (which I use much less) at the same moment as the
automatic mailcheck is kicking in, it will hang the Connection Centre
and require the Task Manager in order to get out of The Bat! and start
over. So: my work-around is to uncheck the Periodical Checking box
when I go to look at the other account.

All that said--when you do get your SMTP and POP3 settings and your
ISP working together, why don't you get version 3.xx and come join us
on the tbbeta list.

You could put a feature request--actually, you could do that without
running a beta, but one can keep up with the behind-the-scenes better
running betas. Of course, you are welcome to subscribe to tbbeta
without running a beta. I did that and lurked for months while running
a v. 2.xx.

Anyway, best of luck with your problems. The most knowledgeable people
on this list have been paying attention to you. And I don't mean
myself. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat! 3.0.0.17 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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dispatcher wish list

[Deborah Shaw]

Thomas Fernandez > Referring to Deborah's other question: No, it is
not possible to pause the despatcher.
+
Am I the only one who'd find this useful? The only one with dial-up
who gets buckets of mail? Is there *any* way to process mail in
batches, perhaps with filters?

If I have 1,600 messages and just want to process the first 200, I can
watch carefully and stop it on the 200th message, but it stops the
whole process. Then I have to wait for five or six minutes to load the
whole list of the remaining 1,400 messages. And when it does, the
messages I've ticked to not download and not delete are reset to
delete, so I have to go through the whole list again--another ten
minutes. Those are messages I want to check out on the server, either
because they're spam and I want to report them before I delete them or
because I'm not sure they are spam. Is there a way to tell TB not to
change manual settings in the dispatcher list?

Also, is there a way to set the dispatcher to show you if a particular
e-mail has an attachment, any attachment? And perhaps the attachment's
file extension? As I said before, file size is not reliable. If I
could set the dispatcher to download, say, a range of messages and if
I could tell if messages had attachments before downloading, I'd get
3.0. Otherwise, 2.0 does me just fine.

Cheers,
Deborah
-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Wish list for Tbat

[Angel Delis]

Sunday, August 22, 2004, 12:16:58 PM, you wrote:

DR> Hello,

DR>   I think Ive stated this before, but Ill throw it in again. My
DR>   primary email client is M2 (Opera's Mail client) I go back and forth
DR>   between TB & M2. The main thing I dislike about TB is primary use of
DR>   folders and secondary use of virtual folders. I think M2, bloomba
DR>   and others that are coming out with the concept of search folders or
DR>   virtual folders, whatever name you wish to call them have the right
DR>   idea. Im experimenting right now with Neo (Nelson Email Organizer)
DR>   add on for Outlook. http://www.emailorganizer.com/ this thing is
DR>   exactly the right idea. It makes mail management a breeze.But I wish
DR>   it had the ability for the use of macros like TB does. I just hope
DR>   that TB will improve the use of its virtual folders. I still think
DR>   regular folders are needed at times, but search views make it so
DR>   much easier.
DR>   Sorry, Im just rambling on out of frustration. I feel better now :)
  

Hello all:

I'll add the following:

Network settings: proxy and port.
Toggle Image downloading.
Edit subject text.


-- 
Bye,
 Angel



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Re: Wish list for Tbat

[Alexander S. Kunz]

Hello Darrin Rich,

well... as for searching messages and tracking individual conversations, I
find TB's virtual folders more and more versatile (compared to the crap
search folders Outlook 2003 offers), especially with the threading by
reference. The only problem for me is that the VF's sometimes tend to
forget their state, no matter what you've configured them to do. And
searching is slow, no doubt. Sorting mailinglists with high traffic and
such into VF's is no good.

I'm currently keeping mailinglists in separate folders and everything else
in VF's. Works pretty good. The only thing I'm missing is that I can't meld
my three mail accounts' inbox into one (in the meaning of: the three
accounts will always be visible in the folder structure).

> Im experimenting right now with Neo (Nelson Email Organizer) add on for
> Outlook.

Outlook? No. Way. :-)

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981)

Let the great world spin forever Down the ringing grooves of change. --
Alfred Lord Tennyson



Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Wish list for Tbat

[Mica Mijatovic]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was Sun, 22 Aug 2004, at 09:16:58 -0700,
   @  @  when Darrin Rich wrote:

> Sorry, Im just rambling on out of frustration. I feel better now :)

A ramble is healthy. And useful. This is the way I had discovered most
things related to TB use. Then, you meet other interesting ramblers and
so.

Then, you marry them. OK, kidding. The last one is kidding. But the
first one is serious.

What is (wo)man without some ramble. (I bet even the TB authors made it
firstly rambling around a bit.)

And now... a signature... What was the password... Aha! Good password.
Sit.

- --
Mica
PGP key uploaded at:  once just before breakfast
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Wish list for Tbat

[Darrin Rich]

Hello,

  I think Ive stated this before, but Ill throw it in again. My
  primary email client is M2 (Opera's Mail client) I go back and forth
  between TB & M2. The main thing I dislike about TB is primary use of
  folders and secondary use of virtual folders. I think M2, bloomba
  and others that are coming out with the concept of search folders or
  virtual folders, whatever name you wish to call them have the right
  idea. Im experimenting right now with Neo (Nelson Email Organizer)
  add on for Outlook. http://www.emailorganizer.com/ this thing is
  exactly the right idea. It makes mail management a breeze.But I wish
  it had the ability for the use of macros like TB does. I just hope
  that TB will improve the use of its virtual folders. I still think
  regular folders are needed at times, but search views make it so
  much easier.
  Sorry, Im just rambling on out of frustration. I feel better now :)
  
 
-- 
Darrin
WinXP Home Service Pack 1
Tbat! 2.12.00

"If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of 
putting them in." 


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Re: Wish list archive

[Chris]

On Monday, October 6, 2003 at 1:37:22 PM, ken green wrote in the
message "Wish list archive"
<mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>> The entire wishlist is help on the RITlabs BugTraq server.
>> https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/

> Is the viewing of the wishlist limited to registered users?  If I log in
> anonymously, nothing seems available.  Not sure why the anon login is
> there...

Go to BugTraq. Click on "Login Anonymously." Then click on "The Bat!
Wishes." Then click on "View Bugs" (it's in the next box down).

-- 
Chris
Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma.

You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a
clipboard.



Current version is 2.00.6 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list archive

[Marck D Pearlstone]

Hi Ken,

@6-Oct-2003, 12:37 -0500 (06-Oct 18:37 UK time) ken green [K] in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

>> https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/

K> Is the viewing of the wishlist limited to registered users?  If I
K> log in anonymously, nothing seems available.  Not sure why the
K> anon login is there...

 so ... register? It's free! ;-).

-- 
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v2.00.22 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1


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Re: Wish list archive

[ken green]

Marck D Pearlstone wrote:
> The entire wishlist is help on the RITlabs BugTraq server.

> https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/


Is the viewing of the wishlist limited to registered users?  If I log in
anonymously, nothing seems available.  Not sure why the anon login is
there...

-- 
 Ken Green
 Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4



Current version is 2.00.6 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list archive

[Marck D Pearlstone]

Hi Roger,

@5-Oct-2003, 11:57 +0200 (05-Oct 10:57 UK time) Roger Phillips [RP]
in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to TBUDL:

RP> Can  someone  please  tell me if there is a 'Wish List' archive,
RP> and how to access it if there is one.

The entire wishlist is help on the RITlabs BugTraq server.

https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/

-- 
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v2.00.22 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1


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Wish list archive

[Roger Phillips]

Hello all Batters,

Can  someone  please  tell me if there is a 'Wish List' archive, and how to
access it if there is one.

-- 
Best regards,
 Roger 

Using The Bat! v2.00.22  



Current version is 2.00.6 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Doug Weller]

Thanks Allie. I think I'm getting there.  I made a classic mistake and didn't set it 
to manual.  Then refiltered my Inbox.  NoteTab started going wild!

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Doug Weller [DW] wrote:'

DW> Ah. You had 'allie', I think, in the Export filter as the
DW> account for export? This is the equivalent?

This depends on which account you created the filter. I have a copy
of the export filter in each of my accounts.

DW> I see that if I don't include that it just goes into my inbox.
DW> But it would be filtered as it does that to the appropriate
DW> folder?

If you only specify the account then the message will be placed in
the Inbox. I only sited an example. You need to edit the import
command to suit your own needs. You can specify an account folder if
you like.

Just review the help where it's nicely documented.

>> The name of and path to the source file you're importing the
>> message from

DW> But I thought that was C:\tbmessedit\edit.txt

I only gave an example. Don't let the paths confuse you. Use the
path to your own file there. :)

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Doug Weller]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:35:27 -0500
 Allie C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Doug Weller [DW] wrote:'
> 
> DW> I'm lost again, sorry.  What do I put for 'lists'
> 
> Put the name of the target account you wish to import the mail to.

Ah. You had 'allie', I think, in the Export filter as the account for export?  This is 
the equivalent? I see that if I don't include that it just goes into my inbox. But it 
would be filtered as it does that to the appropriate folder?

> 
> DW> and what is backup-cmds\edit.txt?
> 
> The name of and path to the source file you're importing the message
> from

But I thought that was C:\tbmessedit\edit.txt

> 
> The /import command is fully documented in the help. Just look under
> advanced usage topics and command line parameters.
> 

Thanks.

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Scott McNay]

Hi Peter!

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
on Monday, September 30, 2002, 4:56:57 PM, you wrote:

JA>> Highlight from where it says BeginFilter to EndFilter (inclusive),
JA>> copy (CTRL C), then go to your filters dialog box, and press CTRL V.
PK>^^
JA>> You should notice a new filter magically appear ;)

PK> Sorry, but where can I find the filters dialog box?
PK> I looked under Account|Sorting office/Filters  but could not find any
PK> place to paste a regular expression.

Just  click  on  one of the filters here, then press Ctrl-V, and a new
filter will appear.

-- 
--Scott.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using  The  Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon
XP 1900 (1.6G real, 1.9G effective) with 512MB.




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Wish list item

[Peter Kerekes]

Hello Jonathan,

Monday, September 30, 2002, 3:03:20 PM, you wrote:

JA> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
JA> Hash: SHA1

JA> On Monday, September 30, 2002, Doug Weller wrote...
snip

JA> Highlight from where it says BeginFilter to EndFilter (inclusive),
JA> copy (CTRL C), then go to your filters dialog box, and press CTRL V.
   ^^
JA> You should notice a new filter magically appear ;)

Sorry, but where can I find the filters dialog box?
I looked under Account|Sorting office/Filters  but could not find any
place to paste a regular expression.

-- 
 
Best regards,
 Petermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Using The Bat! v1.62/Beta4 on Windows 98

"If you really do put a small value upon yourself, 
 rest assured that the world will not raise the price."
  - Anon



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Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Doug Weller [DW] wrote:'

DW> I'm lost again, sorry.  What do I put for 'lists'

Put the name of the target account you wish to import the mail to.

DW> and what is backup-cmds\edit.txt?

The name of and path to the source file you're importing the message
from

The /import command is fully documented in the help. Just look under
advanced usage topics and command line parameters.

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
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Re: Wish list item

[Doug Weller]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:03:20 -0500
 Jonathan Angliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[SNIP]
> 
> Highlight from where it says BeginFilter to EndFilter (inclusive),
> copy (CTRL C), then go to your filters dialog box, and press CTRL V.
> You should notice a new filter magically appear ;)

Wow, I had no idea that worked!  I hadn't realised TheBat! was so clever.  

Thanks.

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Doug Weller]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:18:49 -0500
 Allie C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
[SNIP]

> 
> Here's the filter:
> 
> BeginFilter
> Name: Export for editing
> 
[SNIP] 
> AM> You then go back to TB! and hit the shortcut to import the message,
> AM> mark it as read and delete the original.

Brilliant, thanks.

> 
> I used the TB! import command for this. Unfortunately an Account or
> account folder has to be defined when running this command. If you
> have to be editing messages in a single folder then you should be in
> business since you could set up the command to import the altered
> message to the same folder.
> 
> Here's the filter to import the message. The filter is invoked using
> Ctrl-alt-I.
> 
> BeginFilter

[SNIP]

> 
> "C:\Software\The Bat!Thebat.exe" 
>/IMPORTU="lists";UNIX;IN=C:\backup-cmds\edit.txt;READ
> 
> lists - the target account name
> 
> UNIX - denotes that the file being imported is of UNIX mailbox
> format.
> 
> IN - denotes the location of the file to import.
> 
> Read - sets the switch to mark the imported message as read.

I'm lost again, sorry.  What do I put for 'lists' and what is backup-cmds\edit.txt? I 
can match them up in my mind with the export filter.

Thanks.

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


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Re: Wish list item

[James Senick]

Hello Jonathan,

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, at 14:03:20 [GMT -0500] (which was 3:03:20
PM in NY, USA) Jonathan Angliss wrote:

> On Monday, September 30, 2002, Doug Weller wrote...

>>> Here's the filter:
>>>
>>> BeginFilter
>>> Name: Export for editing
>>> Active: 1
>>> Source: \\alliem\Inbox
>>> Target: \\alliem\Inbox
>>> CopyFolder: none

>> [SNIP]
>> Sorry, I'm lost.

>> What do I do with this? Where do I put it?

> Highlight from where it says BeginFilter to EndFilter (inclusive),
> copy (CTRL C), then go to your filters dialog box, and press CTRL V.
> You should notice a new filter magically appear ;)


Don't forget to alter the paths listed to match your mail folder
structure and the path to the text editor of your choice.

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Jonathan Angliss]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, September 30, 2002, Doug Weller wrote...

>> Here's the filter:
>>
>> BeginFilter
>> Name: Export for editing
>> Active: 1
>> Source: \\alliem\Inbox
>> Target: \\alliem\Inbox
>> CopyFolder: none

> [SNIP]
> Sorry, I'm lost.

> What do I do with this? Where do I put it?

Highlight from where it says BeginFilter to EndFilter (inclusive),
copy (CTRL C), then go to your filters dialog box, and press CTRL V.
You should notice a new filter magically appear ;)

- --
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

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Re: Wish list item

[Doug Weller]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:18:49 -0500
 Allie C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:.
> 
> Here's the filter:
> 
> BeginFilter
> Name: Export for editing
> Active: 1
> Source: \\alliem\Inbox
> Target: \\alliem\Inbox
> CopyFolder: none

[SNIP]
Sorry, I'm lost. 

What do I do with this? Where do I put it?

I'm still studying Filters 101, this looks like postgrad work. :-)

Thanks.

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Email Archiving, was: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Doug,

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, at 10:48:28 [GMT +0100] (which was 5:48:28
AM in NY, USA) Doug Weller wrote:


> What don't you like about Mailbag Assistant?

> Has anyone tried Forkeeps?
 Reply to this message has been sent directly to you and to TBOT
as well as this thread has been declared Dead.



-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re:Email Archiving, was: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Doug.

At 5:48 AM on Monday, September 30, 2002 you
[DW] wrote the following about 'Email
Archiving, was: Editing incoming mail (was:
Wish list item)':

DW> Has anyone tried Forkeeps?

  Too expensive for me.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Email Archiving, was: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Doug Weller]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 11:49:22 -0400
 James Senick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Jan,
> 
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 11:19:22 [GMT -0400] (which was 11:19:22
> AM in NY, USA) Jan Rifkinson wrote:
> 
[SNIP] 
> >   In addition, I think there are other
> >   programs, Mailbag Assistant or Zoot for
> >   instance, that are far more able to
> >   categorize, archive & gather emails on a
> >   specific subject than TB!
> 
> Tried them both...and the worst excuse for an archival program
> I've ever seen...Express Archiver.  What I'd like to use is
> MHonArc but have yet to find the time to put some work into it.

What don't you like about Mailbag Assistant?

Has anyone tried Forkeeps?

I'm beginning to think it's past time for me to do something about the archived email 
in old email clients I no longer lose, let alone TheBat!

Thanks.

Doug

-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Saturday, September 28, 2002, 2:30:06 AM, Dierk Haasis wrote:

> As I wrote in another message that is plainly wrong.

No, you are mixing content and the object.

> Any written text belongs to its originator regardless of where the
> physical evidence is stored.

are you claiming you can come to my house, enter and take it back?

> You can, for instance, not publish a letter you received without the
> prior consent of the sender - as you cannot change the contents he
> made up.

Unless it is fair usage, perhaps. Changing the content is not the
reason I want to be able to edit e-mails, except when I am working
with someone else in a collaborative manner, which I often do in my
profession and on committees. I want to be able to combine received
content and my own thoughts or additions of information.

> You can annotate it, but only in a way which shows that the annotated
> text is not by you and has not been changed by anyone else but the
> author (except he ave you the rights to do so). And that is exactly
> what is achieved by TB!'s Memo feature.

No, the memo feature does not allow one to annotate. It allows one to
link some information in another window.




-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Saturday, September 28, 2002, 10:19:22 AM, Jan Rifkinson wrote:

>  A valid point but I think lobbying for  something that already
>  exists in a  different form sort of belongs in the dept.  of
>  redundancy dept.

It doesn't exist. I cannot put the cursor on a message, type in a
note, move the cursor to another spot and type another note, then save
the message.

If I use the memo function, I can't link the particular comment to the
particular spot in the message. If I have to drag it around from
folder to folder, then perhaps even resend it, well, pretty obviously,
that isn't a practical and convenient way to do it.

(paragraph intended to be tongue in cheek (to some extent), and tweek
those who really hate the idea of HTML capability) In Outlook or
Eudora, you could make the editing more obvious, so that that one
wouldn't have to be so worried that it could become confusing what was
changed for copyright or evidentiary purposes, if that is a legitimate
concern, because you can change fonts, or use italics or colors, to
distinguish the insertions. (end tongue in cheek, with comment that
this is the one way that HTML capabilities of Eudora were useful)

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Jan,

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 11:19:22 [GMT -0400] (which was 11:19:22
AM in NY, USA) Jan Rifkinson wrote:


>   A valid point but I think lobbying for
>   something that already exists in a
>   different form sort of belongs in the dept.
>   of redundancy dept.

Redundancy? Redundancy?  I'm starting to sway a bit here but not
fully.  Two different approaches to accomplish the same task is
not necessarily a bad thing.  I am trying as hard as I can to
convince others that this is a useful feature that could be made
easier if enough people found the 'need' for it.

>   My point is that if a suggested feature
>   can't be accomplished in a given program,
>   it should be placed on the wish list &
>   weighed against the other suggested
>   features. But if, as in this case, I
>   believe the program can already handle the
>   stated need, then I don't think that the
>   program should be dumbed down to facilitate
>   its use.

If people have workaround in place to achieve such a thing then
it only makes sense to consider it for hard coding.  What  was
referring to as far as 'dumbing' is that the competing products
in question make it impossible for one to look past a toggle
button for options.  That said, Outlook's implementation of the
subject editing feature is not one of these features.  It can be
done but it's not 'easily' found.  BTW, it wasn't handled very
well either.  But power users could certainly find it and
administrators could easily set it into motion.

>   Dumbed down, like television network fare
>   in the U.S. is a product that tries to
>   please the lowest common denominator. I
>   just don't buy this approach.

No, dumbed down is more of a containment thing...only let the
people see what we want them to see...then that becomes their
limited environment for life.

>   In addition, I think there are other
>   programs, Mailbag Assistant or Zoot for
>   instance, that are far more able to
>   categorize, archive & gather emails on a
>   specific subject than TB!

Tried them both...and the worst excuse for an archival program
I've ever seen...Express Archiver.  What I'd like to use is
MHonArc but have yet to find the time to put some work into it.

>   TB! is always going to be a niche product
>   -- hopefully a big enough niche to reward
>   its developers -- and there is no reason,
>   IMO, to turn it into something that its
>   not.

And perhaps it is my responsibility to set up what is needed to
accomplish such tasks with TB more easily.  My client has one
copy of TB running per my suggestion.  I'd really like the whole
place to be using it.  That's another topic I suppose.

>   Let's bag it before they tag us.

As long as I have the last word.  I really want this feature and
even more the ability to combine threads.

>   Take care.

Peace.  Just don't diss our Country's TV anymore as some of us
like our trash. 

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Scott McNay]

Hi Jim!

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
on Saturday, September 28, 2002, 4:57:03 AM, you wrote:

JL> Saturday, September 28, 2002, 8:35:40 AM, you wrote:



DH>> Wrong. I do change occasionally the subject line *in conversation*.
DH>> That is, I assign a meaningful/changed subject line to a reply. I am
DH>> very particular when it comes to vital communication and *don't want
DH>> anybody to change my mails* (this is for all of you that don't think
DH>> international Copyright doesn't hold if authors don't expressly forbid
DH>> to do anything).

JL> Sorry, I completely disagree with you on this.  My understanding is that upon
JL> receipt of a letter, then the physical letter belongs to the recipient, but the 
copyright
JL> belongs to the author.

JL> This being the case,I do not see any problem in annotating the text or subject
JL> line of an E-mail.  Because some people may be lazy or careless in their
JL> subject headings, this "slackness" should not penalise the recipient.

I  would suggest that, for the purposes of this discussion, a received
email  is  yours to do with what you want, up to the point where other
people  see  it,  at which point you are responsible for observing the
implied  copyrights  of  others.  Messages are typically cut down, and
that  is  standard  practice, as long as when individual sentences are
modified,  such is indicated, and sentences should not be taken out of
context except when done for their humor value.

I  don't  consider  the  subject to be of any significance, unless the
author  started  their letter up there or specifically mentions it (in
which  case,  someone  can  edit  the  text  later to correct this, if
a new subject is needed)

If  RitLabs  is  concerned about modified messages going out, they can
have a "modified" flag to indicate that such has been done, and a note
can be appended to the bottom of the email. If the user then wishes to
remove  this  note  before  hitting the Send button, that's the user's
problem.  RitLabs  has  made reasonable steps to protect the user from
their  own  folly,  and  that's  all  that  they  need to or should be
expected  to  do.  In  some  cases,  this  may  be  desired, such as a
secretary  whose  job  is to make specific changes to the boss's prose
before it goes out.

IMO.

--
--Scott.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using  The  Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon
XP 1900 (1.6G real, 1.9G effective) with 512MB.




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re:Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi James.

At 10:45 AM on Saturday, September 28, 2002
you [JS] wrote the following about 'Editing
incoming mail (was: Wish list item)':

JS>>> [...] There's simply no reason not to
JS>>> have this feature available. [/...]

>>   Sure there is.

>>   This is a different program & the
>>   feature[s] you are talking about can be
>>   handled differently in TB!.

JS> Ok, badly stated...there is no reason I
JS> see that this feature shouldn't be
JS> considered. Better?

  Yes.

>>   If your group can't be retrained, must we
>>   conclude that The Bat! has to be changed to
>>   meet their requirements?

JS> Absolutely! [...] Call it lobbying for
JS> your interests to be considered. [...]
JS> I've seen you raise a good many argument
JS> for and against features based upon what
JS> you feel would serve email users better.

  A valid point but I think lobbying for
  something that already exists in a
  different form sort of belongs in the dept.
  of redundancy dept.

JS> Have you ever come across an office or
JS> department you know would benefit from
JS> switching to TB only to hold that
JS> suggestion because [...] popular software
JS> has a 'dumbing' effect.

  Sure but I don't think that's the point; at
  least that's not my point.

  My point is that if a suggested feature
  can't be accomplished in a given program,
  it should be placed on the wish list &
  weighed against the other suggested
  features. But if, as in this case, I
  believe the program can already handle the
  stated need, then I don't think that the
  program should be dumbed down to facilitate
  its use.

  Dumbed down, like television network fare
  in the U.S. is a product that tries to
  please the lowest common denominator. I
  just don't buy this approach.

  In addition, I think there are other
  programs, Mailbag Assistant or Zoot for
  instance, that are far more able to
  categorize, archive & gather emails on a
  specific subject than TB!

  Do I expect a Dept to learn all these
  programs? Of course not. That's why Outlook
  & OE exist.

  TB! is always going to be a niche product
  -- hopefully a big enough niche to reward
  its developers -- and there is no reason,
  IMO, to turn it into something that its
  not.

  IMO, that's a basic problem with a lot of
  creative software. It just keeps adding
  more & more stuff & loses its basic value
  of efficiency like those "other" programs.

  Look, its only a matter of philosophy. I
  enjoy this sort of exercise but I agree w
  you that one of the moderators will
  probably jump in [& rightfully so] & ask
  that this thread go elsewhere.

  Let's bag it before they tag us.

  Take care.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Jan,

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 10:15:54 [GMT -0400] (which was 10:15:54
AM in NY, USA) Jan Rifkinson wrote:

JS>> [...] There's simply no reason not to
JS>> have this feature available. [/...]

>   Sure there is.

>   This is a different program & the
>   feature[s] you are talking about can be
>   handled differently in TB!.

Ok, badly stated...there is no reason I see that this feature
shouldn't be considered.  Better?

>   If your group can't be retrained, must we
>   conclude that The Bat! has to be changed to
>   meet their requirements?

Absolutely!  That's what I am here for...and many others I am
sure.  Call it lobbying for your interests to be considered.

>   I don't think so.

Really?  I don't buy that.  I've seen you raise a good many
argument for and against features based upon what you feel
would serve email users better.


>   After all, these requirements seemed to be
>   based on their use of an email client that
>   is apparently inferior & unsatisfactory [to
>   them] otherwise there wouldn't be any
>   interest in switching to TB! in the first
>   place.

Have you ever come across an office or department you know would
benefit from switching to TB only to hold that suggestion
because of the "learning curve" involved.  That's badly said
too.  TB doesn't have a steep learning curve.  Rather, more
popular software has a 'dumbing' effect.



-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Jan,

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 09:46:13 [GMT -0400] (which was 9:46:13
AM in NY, USA) Jan Rifkinson wrote:

>   Without commenting on the merits of your
>   position one way or the other, it strikes
>   me that you may be coming to this question
>   from a very different POV that some of the
>   others commenting on this thread.

>   As a professional writer [if memory serves
>   me] you are, have a right to be & should
>   be, very concerned with copyright &
>   ownership issues.

And a good one at that with a refreshing style.  But no matter
which angle you enter this fray from, copyright doesn't apply
here.  If you're talking about discussion lists, they are
public; if you're talking about business e-mails, it's really
only important that thoughts are organized and solutions are
discovered.  If you're concerned about people editing your
email messages (and I have to giggle here) put a copyright
statement on them and save your originals.  If you're really,
really concerned with copyright, it may help to dig into it
some more and convince yourself that copyright is not assumed
nor does the placement of a statement or symbol protect your
words from 'theft' or alteration.

>   Anyone publishing official works or quoting
>   would/should identify them as such whether
>   in conversation or in writing. But the
>   subject line may not be inviolate as it is
>   may not be considered content.

Indeed.  And while I feel Dierk's and others' feelings against
this are just, the idea of assumed copyright on a subject header
is laughable.

>   BTW, anyone who wants to change the subject
>   of this post for archival purposes can do
>   so AFAIC or annotate it to their heart's
>   content.

I have a feeling Marck will change the subject any minute now. 

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re:Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi James.

At 9:50 AM on Saturday, September 28, 2002
you [JS] wrote the following about 'Editing
incoming mail (was: Wish list item)':

JS> [...] There's simply no reason not to
JS> have this feature available. [/...]

  Sure there is.

  This is a different program & the
  feature[s] you are talking about can be
  handled differently in TB!.

  If your group can't be retrained, must we
  conclude that The Bat! has to be changed to
  meet their requirements?

  I don't think so.

  After all, these requirements seemed to be
  based on their use of an email client that
  is apparently inferior & unsatisfactory [to
  them] otherwise there wouldn't be any
  interest in switching to TB! in the first
  place.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Dierk,

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 12:21:50 [GMT +0200] (which was 6:21:50
AM in NY, USA) Dierk Haasis wrote:

> What I cannot do is take your comments, adjust them as I like (even
> for private use!) and then either say it is mine or it is yours. What
> I can do, is write something that is clearly identified as a comment
> unto it (regardless if it is a letter in paper or an e-mail).

Please?  This is another issue entirely but you are mistaken.
I'm surprised not to hear the 'evils' of redirecting
messages..after all they should never be sent to anyone without
the express written consent of the author, right?  Please?

> And I again remind us of the Memo function which does exactly that and
> can be used in filtering for, i.e., archival purposes.

Nice feature that appears to have been thrown in as an
afterthought and never polishedgood intention, bad
implementation.

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[James Senick]

Hello Dierk,

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, at 09:35:40 [GMT +0200] (which was 3:35:40
AM in NY, USA) Dierk Haasis wrote:

> Wrong. I do change occasionally the subject line *in conversation*.
> That is, I assign a meaningful/changed subject line to a reply. I am
> very particular when it comes to vital communication and *don't want
> anybody to change my mails* (this is for all of you that don't think
> international Copyright doesn't hold if authors don't expressly forbid
> to do anything).

Ah yes, Copyright law...the great obstacle to progress.  I won't
get into that too much because I respect your intelligence and
contribution to the Internet Community at large.  And I realize
I won't change your mind no matter how persuasive my argument.
The bottom line from my end is that I have absolutely no
intention of taking credit away from anyone, I simply want to
organize their shared information in a way that better suits the
way I work...keyword being work.

>> More often than that, I get replies to messages from me about one
>> topic but containing an entirely new topic. With input from many
>> different sources at different times, date and time is essential to
>> keep the original flow of the topic. Folders can only carry you so
>> far.

> That shows you why at least some RFCs aren't that bad. And it shows
> that the list rules do make more sense than just cater to the egos of
> the moderators.

Indeed.  But your response shows how much of the point you are
missing.  I'm not concerned with lists in this topic but rather
ongoing business discussions.

I realize this is going to make you and others upset but it
needs to be said.  The purpose of this "wish" is for business
purposes or at least things vital to someone's purpose with
email.  Many people wishing to use TB for business came from
Outlook.  And of course they are used to some of the more
practical features of Outlook...many of those that TB doesn't
have.  And while those rushing to the aid of TB can claim every
high-brow artistic excuse they can muster, the fact remains
that TB is missing many business type features.  As such, it is
very difficult to train (or even consider training) an office to
do the things they need to do with TB that they did so "easily"
with Outlook.  This wish is just one of those features and
admittedly not a major one.

[bracing for flames] Outlook did have the option of marking any
editing done by the recipient.  I used this feature often.  And
if I am not mistaken, it also retained the original subject
header but simply gave it some type of alias for organizational
purposes.  I may be mistaken but I seem to recall this as an
annoyance because if I replied to a message who'd subject I
edited (I filtered my replies to the same folders) I'd see my
own message with the original subject soon thereafter.  If any
program has the ability to keep track of all edits, it's TB.  It
could insert  in the message body, it could list
the original subject and message id.

There's simply no reason not to have this feature available.
And I'd hate to see it's consideration blocked because someone
fears the possibility of their email message being altered.

>> I have used this method in the past minus the import part as I
>> was just archiving.  But good call just the same.

> What you actually should do - for archiving purposes - is to export
> the mails completely into a text file, make some clearly
> distinguishable annotations and save them. Within TB! you use the Memo
> feature which can help a lot.

I do Dierk.  And if I could only run a second copy of TB, I
could import these back to that copy at will for searching.



-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re:Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Dierk.

At 6:21 AM on Saturday, September 28, 2002
you [DH] wrote the following about 'Editing
incoming mail (was: Wish list item)':

DH> This is nothing else than what I wrote:
DH> "Annotating" being the operative word
DH> here. It is something completely
DH> different from "Changing" or "Altering".

DH> Your reply to me and mine to you are
DH> different messages than the original one.
DH> I cite your comments, upon which I
DH> comment anew, just for convenience
DH> (better to follow a discussion, honesty
DH> about the sender's intent etc.), I don't
DH> change them. With one exception, I "cut"
DH> them to the gist.

  Without commenting on the merits of your
  position one way or the other, it strikes
  me that you may be coming to this question
  from a very different POV that some of the
  others commenting on this thread.

  As a professional writer [if memory serves
  me] you are, have a right to be & should
  be, very concerned with copyright &
  ownership issues.

  The question is whether or not this applies
  to a list like this which I would liken to
  an intellectual cocktail party where there
  are a variety of conversations going on
  simultaneously by small clusters of
  individuals.

  Anyone publishing official works or quoting
  would/should identify them as such whether
  in conversation or in writing. But the
  subject line may not be inviolate as it is
  may not be considered content.

  Just some thought[s] on this lazy Sat
  morning.

  BTW, anyone who wants to change the subject
  of this post for archival purposes can do
  so AFAIC or annotate it to their heart's
  content.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jim Lanyon]

Hello Dierk,

Saturday, September 28, 2002, 11:21:50 AM, you wrote:


DH> What I cannot do is take your comments, adjust them as I like (even
DH> for private use!) and then either say it is mine or it is yours. What
DH> I can do, is write something that is clearly identified as a comment
DH> unto it (regardless if it is a letter in paper or an e-mail).

I think we are at cross purposes here.  My original intent was to have the
subject line alterable to make the E-mail clearer without opening it, thus
allowing for accurate filing and easier "finds".  I think we could agree this
would be a useful item.

Regarding altering E-mail content, I see your point and do have some sympathy with
it.  However, IMHO flexibility is everything and as previous Batters have
mentioned, although there are work-arounds, it would be nice if the programme
incorporated these into the main core of the software.

Thanks for an interesting discussion





-- 
Regards,
 Jimmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Gerard]

ON Saturday, September 28, 2002, 1:13:27 AM, you wrote:

JS> It amazes me why many don't understand the need for it.  If I
JS> had to guess, I'd have to say that many who don't see the need
JS> to edit the subject lines either don't carry on discussions or
JS> they simply do not use email for anything vital.

I just recieve about 3000 emails a day for my business. I just don't
have time to edit the things.

JS> I receive a good deal of email much of which covers the same
JS> topics yet have various subject lines.  More often than that, I
JS> get replies to messages from me about one topic but containing
JS> an entirely new topic.  With input from many different sources
JS> at different times, date and time is essential to keep the
JS> original flow of the topic.  Folders can only carry you so far.

I subscribe to 2 discussion list, this being one of them. If I need to
find anything a use the search tool. The discussions are not vital to
me, it is more entertainment ;-)

>>  As a last resort you could try export-edit-import.

JS> I have used this method in the past minus the import part as I
JS> was just archiving.  But good call just the same.

I have my moments :-)
-- 
Best regards,
 Gerard 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Save Water - Take a bath with your neighbor's daughter


 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Gerard]

ON Friday, September 27, 2002, 11:40:11 PM, you wrote:

DAC> Your amazement is no reason to deprive those who would use it, the
DAC> ability to do it. If there was any reason which would make me consider
DAC> going back to Eudora, it would be the ability to make notes in
DAC> messages when I want to. (And keep as much archival type information
DAC> as I wish or need to keep - such as which day's message it is in tact)


Hi Dwight,
   I always want to have the original email. The Bat allows attachement
   of memo's for the purpose of making remarks about the email.

   I don't want to deprive anyone to do anything, but one you sart using
   email programs that allow editing of the original you can not be sure
   of anything in your message base.

   As an example:
   You might not have heard this but they were searching for the first
   smily :-) on tape somewhere. I hope it wasn't written on an email
   program that allows editing of received emails because then we will
   never be sure :(|

-- 
Best regards,
 Gerard 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
^[:wq! Crap! Thought I was in vi. -- Steven Clarke


 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Jim!

On Saturday, September 28, 2002 at 11:57:03 AM you wrote:

> Sorry, I completely disagree with you on this.

No, you don't.

> This being the case,I do not see any problem in annotating the text or subject
> line of an E-mail.  Because some people may be lazy or careless in their
> subject headings, this "slackness" should not penalise the recipient.

This is nothing else than what I wrote: "Annotating" being the
operative word here. It is something completely different from
"Changing" or "Altering".

Your reply to me and mine to you are different messages than the
original one. I cite your comments, upon which I comment anew, just
for convenience (better to follow a discussion, honesty about the
sender's intent etc.), I don't change them. With one exception, I
"cut" them to the gist. If you or someone else thinks I did
misinterpret and misrepresent you, you can say so and I have to give
in on the latter part if you are right.

What I cannot do is take your comments, adjust them as I like (even
for private use!) and then either say it is mine or it is yours. What
I can do, is write something that is clearly identified as a comment
unto it (regardless if it is a letter in paper or an e-mail).

And I again remind us of the Memo function which does exactly that and
can be used in filtering for, i.e., archival purposes.



-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Zoo.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.61 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

In zweifelhaften Fällen entscheide man sich für das Richtige. (Karl
Kraus)



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Jim Lanyon]

Hello Dierk,

Saturday, September 28, 2002, 8:35:40 AM, you wrote:



DH> Wrong. I do change occasionally the subject line *in conversation*.
DH> That is, I assign a meaningful/changed subject line to a reply. I am
DH> very particular when it comes to vital communication and *don't want
DH> anybody to change my mails* (this is for all of you that don't think
DH> international Copyright doesn't hold if authors don't expressly forbid
DH> to do anything).

Sorry, I completely disagree with you on this.  My understanding is that upon
receipt of a letter, then the physical letter belongs to the recipient, but the 
copyright
belongs to the author.

This being the case,I do not see any problem in annotating the text or subject
line of an E-mail.  Because some people may be lazy or careless in their
subject headings, this "slackness" should not penalise the recipient.




-- 
Regards,
 Jimmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Wish list item

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hello Allie,

> IOW's, we have to meet the software half-way. I'm quite happy with
> the solution I've just mustered up. I've since created a common
> folder to which the imported message is saved. I then drag the
> altered message back to its original source folder. Of course this
> setup is for editing messages from different source folders across
> my accounts. However, if you have one folder from which you usually
> wish to edit these messages, it would be even less painless.

I very seldom feel the need of editing an incoming message (subject or
whatever). What I do then is "Redirect" the message which opens it in
TB's editor, make the changes, put it in Outbox and then drag to
original folder. This method changes date and time stamps though.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.60c



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[William Moore]

 Hello Dwight

 Thank you for your email dated Saturday, September 28, 2002, 6:05:33 AM, in which you 
wrote:

DAC> but the bottom line is that once the mail has been received, it belongs to the
DAC> recipient, not the sender

I'm being pedantic here but in English law a letter becomes the property
of the recipient but copyright remains with the writer. The recipient is
not entitled to 'copy' it.

Applying this to email opens up a whole new can of worms.

-- 

 Regards
 William

 Flying with The Bat! 1.61 www.ritlabs.com/the_bat
 Windows 2000 Pro 2195 Service Pack 2



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Editing incoming mail (was: Wish list item)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello James!

On Saturday, September 28, 2002 at 1:13:27 AM you wrote:

> It amazes me why many don't understand the need for it.  If I
> had to guess, I'd have to say that many who don't see the need
> to edit the subject lines either don't carry on discussions or
> they simply do not use email for anything vital.

Wrong. I do change occasionally the subject line *in conversation*.
That is, I assign a meaningful/changed subject line to a reply. I am
very particular when it comes to vital communication and *don't want
anybody to change my mails* (this is for all of you that don't think
international Copyright doesn't hold if authors don't expressly forbid
to do anything).

> More often than that, I get replies to messages from me about one
> topic but containing an entirely new topic. With input from many
> different sources at different times, date and time is essential to
> keep the original flow of the topic. Folders can only carry you so
> far.

That shows you why at least some RFCs aren't that bad. And it shows
that the list rules do make more sense than just cater to the egos of
the moderators.

> I have used this method in the past minus the import part as I
> was just archiving.  But good call just the same.

What you actually should do - for archiving purposes - is to export
the mails completely into a text file, make some clearly
distinguishable annotations and save them. Within TB! you use the Memo
feature which can help a lot.



-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Zoo.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.61 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am. (Derek Leveret)



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Dwight!

On Saturday, September 28, 2002 at 7:05:33 AM you wrote:

> there are lots of work arounds. some are better than others. but the
> bottom line is that once the mail has been received, it belongs to the
> recipient, not the sender

As I wrote in another message that is plainly wrong. Any written text
belongs to its originator regardless of where the physical evidence is
stored. You can, for instance, not publish a letter you received
without the prior consent of the sender - as you cannot change the
contents he made up.

You can annotate it, but only in a way which shows that the annotated
text is not by you and has not been changed by anyone else but the
author (except he ave you the rights to do so). And that is exactly
what is achieved by TB!'s Memo feature.




-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Zoo.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.61 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

Respect Yourself. (Pops Staples)



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Friday, September 27, 2002, 5:44:31 PM, Anthony Xin Chen wrote:

> Bat! allows you to make notes in the form of "memo".

there are lots of work arounds. some are better than others. but the
bottom line is that once the mail has been received, it belongs to the
recipient, not the sender, and if s/he wants to make notes in the body
of the text, or give it a more useful subject line, s/he should be
able to edit it, not have to be trying to match up with a memo, or
pasting things into smart bat.

I'm on lots of lists where people use clients which don't thread by
reference worth a damn, and I should be able to patch up threads if I
need to as well.

Those capabilities should exist, and one shouldn't need to be
searching for work arounds, or being told that someone else thinks
it's immoral to make those changes so it's a good thing you can't.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Ricardo M. Reyes]

W> I'm too lazy to do all that dragging & editting. And with a mail
W> server running on your system, the forwarding wouldn't even touch the
W> net.

and with local delivery enabled, you don't even need the local mail
server

-- 
Ricardo M. Reyes | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | (Mar del Plata - Argentina)
 | Usando The Bat! 1.60c



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
James Senick [JS] wrote:'

JS> Sure would be nice to just type over the subject though :)

'It sure would be nice ..' never ends. :)

It would sure be nice to change the subject of an entire thread,
wouldn't it? :) 

IOW's, we have to meet the software half-way. I'm quite happy with
the solution I've just mustered up. I've since created a common
folder to which the imported message is saved. I then drag the
altered message back to its original source folder. Of course this
setup is for editing messages from different source folders across
my accounts. However, if you have one folder from which you usually
wish to edit these messages, it would be even less painless.

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60

iD8DBQE9lPlhV8nrYCsHF+IRAn2RAKCjxSMUGGprcgr6KZKCIKwC2ljzMQCgvfsz
wNBAZWqet4W8lwz158mSJpQ=
=lMdr
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[James Senick]

Hello Allie,

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 18:35:16 [GMT -0500] (which was 7:35:16
PM in NY, USA) Allie C Martin wrote:

> This sounds so good that I think I'll go set this up now. :)

And I'll save this message for when and if a "moving threads"
option is ever available.  If I had it, this is what I'd do:

I'd use your shortcut and filter to edit the subject of the
first message in this thread.  Then after importing it back to
my TBDUL folder, I'd drag the rest of the messages in this
thread into a new one created by that exported/altered/imported
message that started it all off.  Except this time, the whole
thread will be entitled "Editable Subject" instead of Wish List
Item.

Sure would be nice to just type over the subject though :)
-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Allie Martin [AM] wrote:'

AM> You hit the shortcut to run the filter to export the message.

AM> You open the file on your desktop using the shortcut to it. Edit the
AM> subject as needed.

I've encapsulated these steps into one action, i.e., the filter
shortcut. I hit ctrl-alt-y and the exported message appears in front
of me, opened with my default text editor for editing.

Here's the filter:

BeginFilter
Name: Export for editing
Active: 1
Source: \\alliem\Inbox
Target: \\alliem\Inbox
CopyFolder: none
MainSet: 40'e'
Actions: faExport,faExternal,faoExportOver,faoHotKey,faoSaveUnix
AddGroups: 
DelGroups: 
ForwardTemplate: 
ConfirmTemplate: 
ReplyTemplate: 
FwdAddr: 
RedirectAddr: 
NewAddr: 
NewTemplate: 
ExtCmd: C:\Software\TextPad\textpad.exe C:\tbmessedit\edit.txt
ExtFile: C:\tbmessedit\edit.txt
ExtractDir: 
ColourGroup: 
AddAddrItems: afiFrom,
DelAddrItems: afiFrom,
HotKey: 49241
IsOfColour: 
SizeBigger: 0
SizeSmaller: 0
AgeOlder: 0
AgeNewer: 0
InAddrPos: 0
OutAddrPos: 0
InAddrGroups: 
NoAddrGroups: 
KillFile: 
KillMethod: 0
SaveTemplate: 
SndFile: 
SysSound: 0
SoundTime: 0:00-0:00
AllowTime: 0:00-0:00
EndFilter


You'll need to edit the two lines 'ExtCmd' and 'ExtFile' to reflect
what you need it to.

ExtCmd is the external command that calls my external editor
textpad. You could use NotePad instead.

ExtFile is the path to the file TB! should export the message to.


AM> You then go back to TB! and hit the shortcut to import the message,
AM> mark it as read and delete the original.

I used the TB! import command for this. Unfortunately an Account or
account folder has to be defined when running this command. If you
have to be editing messages in a single folder then you should be in
business since you could set up the command to import the altered
message to the same folder.

Here's the filter to import the message. The filter is invoked using
Ctrl-alt-I.

BeginFilter
Name: Import after editing
Active: 1
Source: \\alliem\Inbox
Target: \\alliem\Inbox
CopyFolder: none
MainSet: 40'e'
Actions: faExternal,faoRunDetached,faoWaitCompletion,faoHotKey
AddGroups: 
DelGroups: 
ForwardTemplate: 
ConfirmTemplate: 
ReplyTemplate: 
FwdAddr: 
RedirectAddr: 
NewAddr: 
NewTemplate: 
ExtCmd: c:\tbmessedit\import.bat
ExtFile: 
ExtractDir: 
ColourGroup: 
AddAddrItems: afiFrom,
DelAddrItems: afiFrom,
HotKey: 49225
IsOfColour: 
SizeBigger: 0
SizeSmaller: 0
AgeOlder: 0
AgeNewer: 0
InAddrPos: 0
OutAddrPos: 0
InAddrGroups: 
NoAddrGroups: 
KillFile: 
KillMethod: 0
SaveTemplate: 
SndFile: 
SysSound: 0
SoundTime: 0:00-0:00
AllowTime: 0:00-0:00
EndFilter


Again, you should alter ExtCmd to point to the bat file of your
choice. The bat file is a text file containing the following
single command:

"C:\Software\The Bat!\thebat.exe" /IMPORTU="lists";UNIX;IN=C:\backup-cmds\edit.txt;READ

lists - the target account name

UNIX - denotes that the file being imported is of UNIX mailbox
format.

IN - denotes the location of the file to import.

Read - sets the switch to mark the imported message as read.

Hope this all helps.

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60

iD8DBQE9lPVhV8nrYCsHF+IRAnwqAKDsOLOwRJlHQ3S0SX1G81/rrvwIowCfZOmu
E05179is3F80ahUXwREHGog=
=FetM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
James Senick [JS] wrote:'

JS> Yes, that's a nifty workaround but certainly not a
JS> solution...and Allie already suggested this. Nevertheless, you
JS> forgot to mention that during this process, you have to save the
JS> edited message which, unfortunately, adjusts the date.

You could create a manual filter that exports the message to a text
file and create another filter that deletes the message and imports
the altered message to the folder and marks it as read. You could
keep a shortcut to the file to edit on your desktop. The effect at
the end of all this is:

You hit the shortcut to run the filter to export the message.

You open the file on your desktop using the shortcut to it. Edit the
subject as needed.

You then go back to TB! and hit the shortcut to import the message,
mark it as read and delete the original.

This sounds so good that I think I'll go set this up now. :)

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60

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nRerUevkEA13dbiW4JpIhUo=
=1DuN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[James Senick]

Hello Gerard,

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 23:24:03 [GMT +0200] (which was 5:24:03
PM in NY, USA) Gerard wrote:

> Hi James,
>  It amazes me that someone who wants to edit an received email is
>  worried about the time and date.

It amazes me why many don't understand the need for it.  If I
had to guess, I'd have to say that many who don't see the need
to edit the subject lines either don't carry on discussions or
they simply do not use email for anything vital.

I receive a good deal of email much of which covers the same
topics yet have various subject lines.  More often than that, I
get replies to messages from me about one topic but containing
an entirely new topic.  With input from many different sources
at different times, date and time is essential to keep the
original flow of the topic.  Folders can only carry you so far.

>  As a last resort you could try export-edit-import.

I have used this method in the past minus the import part as I
was just archiving.  But good call just the same.

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Anthony Xin Chen]

Hello Dwight,

On 27 Sep 2002 16:40:11  (my local time 14:40:11), Dwight A Corrin
wrote
(in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED])


> If there was any reason which would make me consider going back to
> Eudora, it would be the ability to make notes in messages when I
> want to. (And keep as much archival type information as I wish or
> need to keep - such as which day's message it is in tact)

Bat! allows you to make notes in the form of "memo".

When a message is highlighted in the message list, select View /
Memo Auto-view.

I find the memo so useful, I made the memo visible in the message
list, and assigned a fast key for memo auto view.





-- 
Regards, Anthony

A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely
what you want to do. -- Murphy's Law on Computing



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Friday, September 27, 2002, 4:24:03 PM, Gerard wrote:

> It amazes me that someone who wants to edit an received email is
> worried about the time and date.

Your amazement is no reason to deprive those who would use it, the
ability to do it. If there was any reason which would make me consider
going back to Eudora, it would be the ability to make notes in
messages when I want to. (And keep as much archival type information
as I wish or need to keep - such as which day's message it is in tact)

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Wish list item

[alists]

Hello Gerard,

Friday, September 27, 2002, 2:24:03 PM, you wrote:


G> ON Friday, September 27, 2002, 7:48:58 PM, you wrote:

JS>> Hello brunson,

G>  It amazes me that someone who wants to edit an received
email is G>  worried about the time and date.

G>  As a last resort you could try export-edit-import.


The problem is that a lot of people don't put a good subject on
an email and i would love to be able to fix some of them so i can
find things easier.



-- 

Best regards,
 alistsmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Gerard]

ON Friday, September 27, 2002, 7:48:58 PM, you wrote:

JS> Hello brunson,

JS> Yes, that's a nifty workaround but certainly not a
JS> solution...and Allie already suggested this. Nevertheless, you
JS> forgot to mention that during this process, you have to save the
JS> edited message which, unfortunately, adjusts the date.

Hi James,
 It amazes me that someone who wants to edit an received email is
 worried about the time and date.

 As a last resort you could try export-edit-import.

-- 
Best regards,
 Gerard 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Out the 10Base-T, through the router, down the T1, over the leased line,
off the bridge, past the firewall...nothing but Net. -- sig of Tony
Miller


 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[Wolffe]

Another workaround is to build a forwarding template that includes the
header information that you need/want and forward the message back to
yourself with a new subject.

I'm too lazy to do all that dragging & editting. And with a mail
server running on your system, the forwarding wouldn't even touch the
net.

Cheers Yall
\\'



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Wish list item

[James Senick]

Hello brunson,

Yes, that's a nifty workaround but certainly not a
solution...and Allie already suggested this. Nevertheless, you
forgot to mention that during this process, you have to save the
edited message which, unfortunately, adjusts the date.

But hey, I could just adjust my clock settings every time I do
this ...  Seriously, if it is a useful feature (I feel so)
there should be an added feature to cover it.  Unfortunately, TB
is built around too many workarounds as it is.


On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 10:18:27 [GMT -0700] (which was 1:18:27
PM in NY, USA) brunson wrote:

s>> bye...  mark.
>   You can simply drag the Email into the outbox folder-Then double
>   click on it and it will open to allow you to EDIT any portion of the
>   message_ Subject line and or Body. Close and then drag back into your
>   inbox Folder..

>   BOB


-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 512 MB RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[4]: Wish list item

[Jim Lanyon]

Hello brunson,

Friday, September 27, 2002, 6:18:27 PM, you wrote:



s>> bye...  mark.
b>   You can simply drag the Email into the outbox folder-Then double
b>   click on it and it will open to allow you to EDIT any portion of the
b>   message_ Subject line and or Body. Close and then drag back into your
b>   inbox Folder..

b>   BOB
  
Thanks, for the tip...


Jim



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[3]: Wish list item

[brunson]

Hello shakwave,

Friday, September 27, 2002, 10:06:34 AM, you wrote:

s> Hi James,



s> bye...  mark.
  You can simply drag the Email into the outbox folder-Then double
  click on it and it will open to allow you to EDIT any portion of the
  message_ Subject line and or Body. Close and then drag back into your
  inbox Folder..

  BOB
  
s> +- time/date: 19:06:32/27.09.2002
s> | web: www.shakwave.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
s> | funny private forum @ forum.shakwave.de
s> ++
s> 2600 Windows XP 1.61

s> - Original message was / included - 
s>   Your address: James Senick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
s>   Your attachments: 
s>   Your textsize: 1320 bytes
s>   Your time: Friday, September 27, 2002, 6:00:34 PM

 

JS>> Hello Jim,

JS>> I added this to the list several months ago with the added wish
JS>> that threads also be configurable i.e. dragging a message from
JS>> one thread to another and having it inherit it's new thread's
JS>> subject.  I don't think anyone understood what I was talking
JS>> about.

JS>> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 13:23:50 [GMT +0100] (which was 8:23:50
JS>> AM in NY, USA) Jim Lanyon wrote:

>>> Hello Batters,

>>> How many Emails does one receive where the subject line content is:

>>> 1.  Less than clear
>>> 2.  Does not fully relate to the message content
>>> 3.  Is the 3rd or 4th reiteration of replies

>>> There was a facility in Outlook 2000 where the subject line could be amended.
>>> This was a useful, especially if one receives faxes from companies like
>>> Efax, where the subject line says "2 page(s) eFax from 02075874158" .  it also
>>> allows you to make subject line content relevant to your purpose.

>>> Worthy of consideration for inclusion in the nexr release?






s> - End of your original message -



s> 
s> Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
s> http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html



-- 
Best regards,
 brunsonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Wish list item

[shakwave]

Hi James,



bye...  mark.

+- time/date: 19:06:32/27.09.2002
| web: www.shakwave.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| funny private forum @ forum.shakwave.de
++
2600 Windows XP 1.61

- Original message was / included - 
  Your address: James Senick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Your attachments: 
  Your textsize: 1320 bytes
  Your time: Friday, September 27, 2002, 6:00:34 PM

 

JS> Hello Jim,

JS> I added this to the list several months ago with the added wish
JS> that threads also be configurable i.e. dragging a message from
JS> one thread to another and having it inherit it's new thread's
JS> subject.  I don't think anyone understood what I was talking
JS> about.

JS> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 13:23:50 [GMT +0100] (which was 8:23:50
JS> AM in NY, USA) Jim Lanyon wrote:

>> Hello Batters,

>> How many Emails does one receive where the subject line content is:

>> 1.  Less than clear
>> 2.  Does not fully relate to the message content
>> 3.  Is the 3rd or 4th reiteration of replies

>> There was a facility in Outlook 2000 where the subject line could be amended.
>> This was a useful, especially if one receives faxes from companies like
>> Efax, where the subject line says "2 page(s) eFax from 02075874158" .  it also
>> allows you to make subject line content relevant to your purpose.

>> Worthy of consideration for inclusion in the nexr release?






- End of your original message -




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[James Senick]

 

Hello Jim,

I added this to the list several months ago with the added wish
that threads also be configurable i.e. dragging a message from
one thread to another and having it inherit it's new thread's
subject.  I don't think anyone understood what I was talking
about.

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, at 13:23:50 [GMT +0100] (which was 8:23:50
AM in NY, USA) Jim Lanyon wrote:

> Hello Batters,

> How many Emails does one receive where the subject line content is:

> 1.  Less than clear
> 2.  Does not fully relate to the message content
> 3.  Is the 3rd or 4th reiteration of replies

> There was a facility in Outlook 2000 where the subject line could be amended.
> This was a useful, especially if one receives faxes from companies like
> Efax, where the subject line says "2 page(s) eFax from 02075874158" .  it also
> allows you to make subject line content relevant to your purpose.

> Worthy of consideration for inclusion in the nexr release?



-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 1.0 Gb RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Wish list item

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jim Lanyon [JL] wrote:'

JL> Worthy of consideration for inclusion in the nexr release?

I currently adjust message subjects by dragging the message to one
of my Outboxes, opening the message there, changing the subject and
then dragging it back to it's original folder.

- -- 
Allie C Martin \  TB! v1.62/Beta5 & WinXP Pro (SP1)
 List Moderator/   PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com
 
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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Wish list item

[Jim Lanyon]

Hello Batters,

How many Emails does one receive where the subject line content is:

1.  Less than clear
2.  Does not fully relate to the message content
3.  Is the 3rd or 4th reiteration of replies

There was a facility in Outlook 2000 where the subject line could be amended.
This was a useful, especially if one receives faxes from companies like
Efax, where the subject line says "2 page(s) eFax from 02075874158" .  it also
allows you to make subject line content relevant to your purpose.

Worthy of consideration for inclusion in the nexr release?


-- 
Regards,
 Jim Lanyon  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: wish list (was Re: SmartPad ??)

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi David,

@24 April 2002, 05:51:03 +0100 David Elliott wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

MDP>> SmartPad was produced in response to those who actually like the
MDP>> TB editor and wanted to use it (and access Quick Templates) in a
MDP>> general purpose notepad form. With the system-wide hot keys,
MDP>> SmartPad can become an immensely useful data collation and note
MDP>> taking tool.

> ¿ access Quick Templates ? I must have missed something there. What
> do you mean ?

I mean only that I have confused myself. No, you can't use QTs. You
can use the TB editor formatting functions and the calculator /
evaluator. Sorry to have passed on that confusion.

> The wish is that you can use a spell checker in it ?

Good wish!

- --
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SB! v1.60d/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
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wish list (was Re: SmartPad ??)

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Greetings Marck

On 23 April 2002 at 21:55:07 +0100 (which was 21:55 where I live) Marck D
Pearlstone might have written

>> [+] Tools|SmartPad

< ... >

>> Can anyone tell me more about it ?

MDP> SmartPad was produced in response to those who actually like the TB
MDP> editor and wanted to use it (and access Quick Templates) in a general
MDP> purpose notepad form. With the system-wide hot keys, SmartPad can
MDP> become an immensely useful data collation and note taking tool.

¿ access Quick Templates ? I must have missed something there. What do you
mean ?

The wish is that you can use a spell checker in it ?

- --
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  David   | SecureBat!  1.60 d / iKey1000 | E-mailaholics |
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| "Bother."-Pooh  |
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Re: My Wish List

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Brien,

@12 April 2002, 07:57:34 -0700 (15:57 UK time) Brien King wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> I'll have to try this again, would there be a setting that would
> prevent this?

Not that I have seen.

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TB! v1.60d-14F4B4B2 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2

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Re[2]: My Wish List

[Brien King]

Marck,


> On Friday, April 12, 2002, 3:02:19 AM, you wrote:

>> ... The other feature was that it would auto-look up the addresses
>> after a few seconds.

> TB has this. It's called "auto-complete".

Ok, I found it.  I had to change the setting from "History" to "Address book".

> When in the editor, see "Utilities | Insert Quick template".

Cool.  Its odd that the Right Click Menu is different than the Pull Down Menu.
Thanks!

>> 5) Have an option that copies a "Redirected" message to the "Sent
>> Items" folder so I have a record of that.

> All sent messages are copied to the Sent Items folder, whether new or
> redirected. If you don't see it there then it is likely that an
> outgoing filter is moving it elsewhere.

I'll have to try this again, would there be a setting that would prevent this?




-- 
Brien King
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
Home of Cart Commander, the Ultimate Cartridge Cataloging Utility!



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Re: My Wish List

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Brien,

@11 April 2002, 13:24:58 -0700 (21:24 UK time) Brien King wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> 1) Should have the option in filters to ignore the quoted text.
> I've had problems where messages get routed based on my Sig that was
> in quoted in a reply.  For example, I have "Cart Commander" route to
> its own mail box, my Sig contains "Cart Commander" in it and the
> message may get routed to the "Cart Commander" mailbox even though
> its not related to "Cart Commander".  If I could check an option
> that says "Ignore Quoted Text" this would help eliminate a lot of
> false routings.

Here's a good solution: every time I get a false hit, I would add
another filter higher up the filter list that will put future messages
in the right place instead of under Cart Commander. Put the Cart
Commander filter after other more specific filters.

> ... The other feature was that it would auto-look up the addresses
> after a few seconds.

TB has this. It's called "auto-complete".

> 4) Allow me to Right Click in a message and pick a Quick Template to
> insert. Sometimes I'll forget what the exact name is of my Quick
> Template and I'll have to go look it up. This turns it into a
> "Kinda-Quick Template" :-)

When in the editor, see "Utilities | Insert Quick template".

> 5) Have an option that copies a "Redirected" message to the "Sent
> Items" folder so I have a record of that.

All sent messages are copied to the Sent Items folder, whether new or
redirected. If you don't see it there then it is likely that an
outgoing filter is moving it elsewhere.

- --
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TB! v1.60d-14F4B4B2 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2

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Re: My Wish List

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Brien!

On Friday, April 12, 2002 at 2:05:15 AM you wrote:

> Now I can work around it by putting my full tag line in the filter and have it
> say that its NOT present, however, there could be other situations that I
> haven't thought of yet. The suggestion simply makes the filters more powerful
> than they already are for what I would imagine would be very little effort
> (assumption on my part).

That's one good way.

Another could be to have an e-mail address solely for Cart commander
questions. On my own website I use, for instance,
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" to have the chance to filter questions
correctly into the according folder. Other services have other
addresses (research, advertising ...). I could also use pen names.

You can also set up mailto links with a given subject (as I also do,
see below for an example).


-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

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Re[2]: My Wish List

[Brien King]

> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, 4:00:55 PM, you wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1

> In a message dated, Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:14:11 +0200, Brien King [BK]
> wrote:
> ...

> Funny here meant 'odd', not laughable. :-) Odd, meaning that it's
> unlikely that one would really need such functionality, considering
> the power already inherent in TB!'s filtering. Anyway, let's see...

> Is Cart Commander a mailing list? Are you running a support service or
> something?


Allie,

Cart Commander is a program I wrote for tracking classic gaming collections.

The typical email I get is like this:

-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hi!

I just saw your Cart Commander program and wanted to know .


Signed,

Blah

-

These get filtered to my "Cart Commander" box. I use filtering so I can
prioritize my emails based on where they get routed to.  If I know its a CC
message and I'm busy I can ignore them and then address them when I have time.
I get around 100+ messages a day (including SPAM) and I use Filtering to help
prioritize my messages and filter out the garbage.

It makes it harder to prioritize an item if it inadvertently gets routed to the
wrong place.   By leaving out the Quoted portion of the message, I can then
route based on the new information in the message.

Now I can work around it by putting my full tag line in the filter and have it
say that its NOT present, however, there could be other situations that I
haven't thought of yet. The suggestion simply makes the filters more powerful
than they already are for what I would imagine would be very little effort
(assumption on my part).

This is not a huge issue with me, its just a "Wish".



-- 
Brien King
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
Home of Cart Commander, the Ultimate Cartridge Cataloging Utility!



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Re: My Wish List

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hello Allie,

> Have you tried just double clicking on the image icon in the
> attachments bar instead of clicking on the image tab. Double clicking
> the icon will still use the internal viewer, but opens the image in
> actual size.

Nice :-)

-- 
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Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.60c



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Re: My Wish List

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In a message dated, Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:14:11 +0200, Brien King [BK]
wrote:
...
BK> No, its not. I get a lot of E-mails for Cart Commander and the
BK> first reference to it is usually in the Body. What else would I
BK> filter on? It can't be subject, because a lot of the E-Mails I get
BK> don't have that in the Subject. I can't do it based on Sender
BK> because I get a lot of E-Mails from people I have never talked to
BK> before.

BK> Show me a better way and I'll consider changing my mind, but to
BK> call it a "Funny Wish" is absurd.

Funny here meant 'odd', not laughable. :-) Odd, meaning that it's
unlikely that one would really need such functionality, considering
the power already inherent in TB!'s filtering. Anyway, let's see...

Is Cart Commander a mailing list? Are you running a support service or
something?

- --
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Re[2]: My Wish List

[Brien King]

Allie,

> Ok, but isn't it better to choose another string to filter on. I find
> it difficult to believe that the only way to identify 'Cart Commander'
> messages is to look for the string in the message body. It's a funny
> wish considering.

No, its not.  I get a lot of E-mails for Cart Commander and the first reference
to it is usually in the Body.  What else would I filter on?  It can't be
subject, because a lot of the E-Mails I get don't have that in the Subject.  I
can't do it based on Sender because I get a lot of E-Mails from people I have
never talked to before.

Show me a better way and I'll consider changing my mind, but to call it a "Funny
Wish" is absurd.

> The re-filtering works on all folders. The only filtering that is
> confined only to the Inbox is the Inbox filter rules set being run
> automatically. Otherwise you can manually apply the Inbox, replied or
> read messages filter sets to any folder.

> Or are you referring to automatic filtering of other folders using the
> Inbox filter set?

Ok, I just went back to the Filter dialog and realized what the paradigm is for
filtering.  This was a misunderstanding on my part and we can scratch that
off the list.

BK>> 7) Allow me to turn Image Scaling OFF for the internal viewer. I
BK>> get pics of screen shots, and when they are scaled down, they
BK>> become unreadable. I would much prefer to able to just use the
BK>> scroll bars.

> Have you tried just double clicking on the image icon in the
> attachments bar instead of clicking on the image tab. Double clicking
> the icon will still use the internal viewer, but opens the image in
> actual size.

Yes, I don't want to do that, it brings up another window, adding the the
clutter.


-- 
Brien King
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
Home of Cart Commander, the Ultimate Cartridge Cataloging Utility!



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Re: My Wish List

[Allie C Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

@ 22:20:56 +0200 [ Thu, 11 Apr 2002], Brien King [BK] wrote these
words of wisdom:
...
BK> Ok, here are my items that I would like.

Just a few comments on some of your wishes. :-)

BK> 1) Should have the option in filters to ignore the quoted text.
BK> I've had problems where messages get routed based on my Sig that
BK> was in quoted in a reply. For example, I have "Cart Commander"
BK> route to its own mail box, my Sig contains "Cart Commander" in it
BK> and the message may get routed to the "Cart Commander" mailbox
BK> even though its not related to "Cart Commander". If I could check
BK> an option that says "Ignore Quoted Text" this would help eliminate
BK> a lot of false routings.

Ok, but isn't it better to choose another string to filter on. I find
it difficult to believe that the only way to identify 'Cart Commander'
messages is to look for the string in the message body. It's a funny
wish considering.

BK> 2) Re-Filter Messages from the Folder Menu appears to only filter
BK> on the In-Box. I would like to see this work on which ever folder
BK> I have selected. I like to organize my folders as much as possible
BK> and I am constantly making adjustments based on the number and
BK> types of E-mails I may get over time.

The re-filtering works on all folders. The only filtering that is
confined only to the Inbox is the Inbox filter rules set being run
automatically. Otherwise you can manually apply the Inbox, replied or
read messages filter sets to any folder.

Or are you referring to automatic filtering of other folders using the
Inbox filter set?

BK> 6) On the Filters Dialog "Alternatives Tab", rather than using a
BK> TScrollBox, it should be changed to a TListView (or my much
BK> preferred alternative TVirtualTree). This would make it easier to
BK> read and manage.

The filters interface should be soon undergoing a revamp. I'm
surprised it hasn't yet. I guess that's for version 2.

BK> 7) Allow me to turn Image Scaling OFF for the internal viewer. I
BK> get pics of screen shots, and when they are scaled down, they
BK> become unreadable. I would much prefer to able to just use the
BK> scroll bars.

Have you tried just double clicking on the image icon in the
attachments bar instead of clicking on the image tab. Double clicking
the icon will still use the internal viewer, but opens the image in
actual size.



If you wish to make a new query, which really is to post a new message
on a new subject to the list, you should hit the new message button
instead of simply replying to someone else's message and changing the
subject.

Replying to someone elses message will create unwanted references to
the message being replied to, and your new message to the list will be
threaded with the message referred to in the headers.

If you find creating a new message inconvenient and you really prefer
replying to another to get a post on a new topic going, then you can
still do so without causing threading problems if you delete the
'follow-up' headers by enabling the 'follow-up' to header field in
your editor (View/follow-up To) as shown in the screenshots.

http://www.geocities.com/acmartin.geo/edit.png
http://www.geocities.com/acmartin.geo/reply.png

You then delete the contents of the 'follow-up' field when the reply
message appears in the editor.



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My Wish List

[Brien King]

Ok, here are my items that I would like.

1) Should have the option in filters to ignore the quoted text.  I've had
problems where messages get routed based on my Sig that was in quoted in a
reply.  For example, I have "Cart Commander" route to its own mail box, my Sig
contains "Cart Commander" in it and the message may get routed to the "Cart
Commander" mailbox even though its not related to "Cart Commander".  If I could
check an option that says "Ignore Quoted Text" this would help eliminate a lot
of false routings.

2) Re-Filter Messages from the Folder Menu appears to only filter on the In-Box.
 I would like to see this work on which ever folder I have selected.  I like to
organize my folders as much as possible and I am constantly making adjustments
based on the number and types of E-mails I may get over time.

I really love the way The Bat! allows me to rearrange folders using the arrow
keys.  That is a godsend!  I have 192 folders with over 18,000+ messages and
rearranging them is simple and painless.  Being able to Re-filter on other
folders would be the icing on the cake.

3) A feature I really liked in Outlook was I could type partial addresses such
as "Bob S, Bill M, Jane D" then press Alt-K and it would automatically look for
those names in my address book and fill them out.  Sometimes it was brain dead,
but for the most part it worked great.  I know about the Alt + combination,
however, that is only one E-mail address at a time.  The other feature was that
it would auto-look up the addresses after a few seconds.

4) Allow me to Right Click in a message and pick a Quick Template to insert.
Sometimes I'll forget what the exact name is of my Quick Template and I'll have
to go look it up.  This turns it into a "Kinda-Quick Template" :-)  Either that,
or allow me to type in part of the name, hit CTRL-Space and have a Drop Down
list popup and allow me to select it from there.  (Like what CTRL-Space in
Delphi does)

5) Have an option that copies a "Redirected" message to the "Sent Items" folder
so I have a record of that.  I might be able to do this with a filter and I'll
check into it, but it would be nice to have that as an automatic thing (with the
option to turn it off for those who don't like this idea).

6) On the Filters Dialog "Alternatives Tab", rather than using a TScrollBox,
it should be changed to a TListView (or my much preferred alternative
TVirtualTree).  This would make it easier to read and manage.

7) Allow me to turn Image Scaling OFF for the internal viewer.  I get pics of
screen shots, and when they are scaled down, they become unreadable.  I would
much prefer to able to just use the scroll bars.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head and if I think of more, I'll
write those up as well.  Keep up the excellent work and thanks for making a
great E-Mail client!


-- 
Brien King
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
Home of Cart Commander, the Ultimate Cartridge Cataloging Utility!



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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Marck!

On Saturday, February 9, 2002 at 3:05:08 AM you wrote:

> No there wasn't. It was as simple as 'o' and TAB (which, on the second
> line, lines up with the indent on the first, etc.).

Smart Tabs enabled.*


*We will run into trouble shortly: Smart Tab, SmartBat, SmartPad -
anythyng as smart as TB! should be banned from the public, especially
us not-so-smart computer users.


-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

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The Bat 1.54 Beta/37 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

Why is the man who invests all your hard earned money called a
"broker"?


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Rick,

On 08 February 2002 at 13:46:48 -0500 (which was 18:46 where I live)
Rick Reumann wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>  reply text here

> That is really cool, and I like it much better than how I was doing it
> where I would simply indent my response under the blocks of reply
> text. Your way looks much more clear.

Nah - it was as Pit said - just that your original text was indented
when I quoted it.

> ... My question I guess is being just a text editor there is no
> special formatting for creating bulleted lists is there?

No there wasn't. It was as simple as 'o' and TAB (which, on the second
line, lines up with the indent on the first, etc.).

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Re[3]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Jernej Simončič]

Hello Jonathan,

08. februar 2002, 22:28:31, you wrote:


JW> TB's Shift-F7 and Ctrl-F7 are like nothing else I've seen. I find
JW> them quite awkward (in general I prefer one handed keyboard short
JW> cuts.)

Look at Norton Commander's (and it's clones') editor :)

JW> 2) Reformatting a paragraph. I like Ctrl-R (although in ME, it's much more handy
JW> in that it will reformat the paragraph and the cursor will then move to the next
JW> one.) I do see the logic in TB's mapping for it, but again I'd like to be
JW> consistent between editors.

Bat  uses Alt+L for left, Alt+R for right, Alt+J for justify and Alt+C
for center...

-- 
Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/
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[The Bat! v1.54 Beta/36 on Windows 98 4.10.. A ]

The length of any meeting is inversely proportional to the length of
the agenda for that meeting.
   -- McLaughlin's Law


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Re: Wish list

[Dirk Heiser]

Hi Marck,

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:17:55 +, you wrote:

>> Well now when I go back and add text things wrap fine, so
>> everything is great until I hit return/enter and it doesn't
>> bring me to a new line.

> You need two new lines. Since this is plain text, the only way to
> delimit two distinct paragraphs is by have a clear, blank line between
> them.

Sorry but you are wrong ;-) if you are in TB!s editor the text is
_not_ plain text, its some binary data in the PCs memory.

I see _no_ reason why it should not possibly to have soft and hard
line breaks. Every other plain text editor i know do it also, only the
one in TB! does it not.

So what's wrong with: You type your mail and TB! do on the fly soft
line breaks at the 72 column (or whatever you set in options), if you
hit enter the editor to do an hard line break. Then if the mail are
send TB! could turn all soft line break to hard line breaks.


The way the editor now work are simply crazy (_not_ IMHO) and I am do
not know any other editor that do such stupid thinks.

> Because a single new line doesn't denote a new pargraph. Sometimes I
> want to type a bullet list so I have to turn Auto-Format off. There's
> a control key combo for that - it's simple enough to remember -
> Ctrl-Shift-F.

> o  Typing paragraph data?Turn it on.
> o  Typing lists? Turn it off.
> o  Amending a paragraph? Turn it on.

Well with an real editor its also possible to write normal text and
bullet list without always switch the options.

> expecting too much of a plain text format. Plain text only has hard

And again, how does the editor handle the stuff internally are not
related to the output text format. For Example even in an Plain text
mail TB! show me different colors for the quoted text (yes its
possible because internally you do not use plain text) :-)

> It has been suggested in the past that the TB programmers implement
> some system of soft returns. I've always felt that to be dangerous. At

Well i noticed no dangerous thinks with my other plain text editors.

> least with the present system, what we type is what will be sent. No
> behind-the-scenes formatting for us TB users - oh no! ;-).

There are no "behind the user" formatting with soft returns. Only the
convert from soft to hard. But the user see this while writing.

> FWIW, the TB editor *does* follow a standard. It's a very old one.

*ROTFL* Not an bug or missing feature only an old standard.

> It's based on the old MS-DOS SideKick editor, which itself drew from
> the old WordStar standard. These standards are still in use in most
> Borland IDE editors (with tweaks and additions).

Well in an IDE editor you need other features as in an editor for
email. In programming you does no wan't line breaks at 72 chars.

And BTW i not buy my P200 to work with the same editor an 8086 system
have used because of its limited power.

SCNR,
 Dirk
-- 
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  B

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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Rick,

On 08 February 2002 at 11:31:39 -0500 (which was 16:31 where I live)
Rick Reumann wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Secnario II - Auto-Format On.
> Well now when I go back and add text things wrap fine, so
> everything is great until I hit return/enter and it doesn't
> bring me to a new line.

You need two new lines. Since this is plain text, the only way to
delimit two distinct paragraphs is by have a clear, blank line between
them.

> The bottom line is why is there a not an option so that I can
> type text have it wrap, be able to insert text and not have to
> use Alt-L to reformat, and be able to hit enter to generate a
> new line?

Because a single new line doesn't denote a new pargraph. Sometimes I
want to type a bullet list so I have to turn Auto-Format off. There's
a control key combo for that - it's simple enough to remember -
Ctrl-Shift-F.

o  Typing paragraph data?Turn it on.
o  Typing lists? Turn it off.
o  Amending a paragraph? Turn it on.

> If I simply have The Bat! options configured wrong someone please
> let me know. Thanks Lots.

It's not that you have it configured wrong - just that you are
expecting too much of a plain text format. Plain text only has hard
returns, no soft returns. Auto format is about moving the hard returns
around so that the text better fits the given margins. Where should it
stop moving hard returns? When it gets to a paragraph break. What does
one of those look like? A completely blank line. It is logical, but
not intuitive thanks to expectations brought about by editors which
handle soft returns.

It has been suggested in the past that the TB programmers implement
some system of soft returns. I've always felt that to be dangerous. At
least with the present system, what we type is what will be sent. No
behind-the-scenes formatting for us TB users - oh no! ;-).

FWIW, the TB editor *does* follow a standard. It's a very old one.
It's based on the old MS-DOS SideKick editor, which itself drew from
the old WordStar standard. These standards are still in use in most
Borland IDE editors (with tweaks and additions).

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Re[3]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Jernej Simončič]

Hello Rick,

08. februar 2002, 19:46:48, you wrote:

>>>  reply text here

RR> That is really cool, and I like it much better than how I was doing it
RR> where I would simply indent my response under the blocks of reply
RR> text. Your way looks much more clear.

This happened because your original text was indented AFAIK :)

You could however achieve this with some QTs. Only problem is, that
they only work in 1.54 (1.53 crashes if you try to use them)...

-- 
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ICQ: 26266467

[The Bat! v1.54 Beta/36 on Windows 98 4.10.. A ]

1. The value of a program is proportional to the weight of its output.
2. Undetectable errors are infinite in variety, in contrast to
   detectable errors, which by definition are limited.
   -- Hind's Laws of Computer Programming


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Jonathan!

On Friday, February 8, 2002 at 5:00:16 PM you wrote:

> Use a high end editor (like Multi Edit, Slick Edit, etc) and see if you feel the
> same way!  The number one feature that distinguishes these are _configurability_
> (keymapping, toolbar, etc) although TB wouldn't the need extension-specific
> configuration.

1. I am with you on the key mapping ... but, what the h*** does it have
to do with the editor?

2. As for the editors you mention, they are for other purposes than
TB!'s editor. I do really like Word - and there is no arguing that it
is an editor - but don't want TB!'s editor to behave like it
(editorwise).


-- 
Dierk Haasis
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Re[2]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Rick Reumann]

Thanks Marck, your explanations are really helping me better
understand this ( even though I'm not totally getting the whole line
return thing, but that's just my ignorance, I'll work on understanding
it better ).

Totally not related to the topic, but Marck, did you modify your
reply template to have it set up to automatically generate it like:

>>  reply text here

That is really cool, and I like it much better than how I was doing it
where I would simply indent my response under the blocks of reply
text. Your way looks much more clear.

Also, stupid question I'm sure but when you made that bulleted list
you simply used the letter "o" for the bullets and than spaced over
for each bulleted point. My question I guess is being just a text
editor there is no special formatting for creating bulleted lists is
there?

Thanks again.

ORIGINAL THREAD BELOW:


On Friday, February 08, 2002, 12:17:55 PM, Marck wrote:

MDP> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1

MDP> Hi Rick,

MDP> On 08 February 2002 at 11:31:39 -0500 (which was 16:31 where I live)
MDP> Rick Reumann wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>> Secnario II - Auto-Format On.
>> Well now when I go back and add text things wrap fine, so
>> everything is great until I hit return/enter and it doesn't
>> bring me to a new line.

MDP> You need two new lines. Since this is plain text, the only way to
MDP> delimit two distinct paragraphs is by have a clear, blank line between
MDP> them.

>> The bottom line is why is there a not an option so that I can
>> type text have it wrap, be able to insert text and not have to
>> use Alt-L to reformat, and be able to hit enter to generate a
>> new line?

MDP> Because a single new line doesn't denote a new pargraph. Sometimes I
MDP> want to type a bullet list so I have to turn Auto-Format off. There's
MDP> a control key combo for that - it's simple enough to remember -
MDP> Ctrl-Shift-F.

MDP> o  Typing paragraph data?Turn it on.
MDP> o  Typing lists? Turn it off.
MDP> o  Amending a paragraph? Turn it on.

>> If I simply have The Bat! options configured wrong someone please
>> let me know. Thanks Lots.

MDP> It's not that you have it configured wrong - just that you are
MDP> expecting too much of a plain text format. Plain text only has hard
MDP> returns, no soft returns. Auto format is about moving the hard returns
MDP> around so that the text better fits the given margins. Where should it
MDP> stop moving hard returns? When it gets to a paragraph break. What does
MDP> one of those look like? A completely blank line. It is logical, but
MDP> not intuitive thanks to expectations brought about by editors which
MDP> handle soft returns.

MDP> It has been suggested in the past that the TB programmers implement
MDP> some system of soft returns. I've always felt that to be dangerous. At
MDP> least with the present system, what we type is what will be sent. No
MDP> behind-the-scenes formatting for us TB users - oh no! ;-).

MDP> FWIW, the TB editor *does* follow a standard. It's a very old one.
MDP> It's based on the old MS-DOS SideKick editor, which itself drew from
MDP> the old WordStar standard. These standards are still in use in most
MDP> Borland IDE editors (with tweaks and additions).



-- 

Rick
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for 'better treatment'? I'd
ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and
forth you'd probably be able to get a lot of free games."
 
  -Jack Handey


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Gerard!

On Friday, February 8, 2002 at 6:50:04 PM you wrote:

Mary>> 3. Please could somebody do something about TB's incredibly primitive
Mary>> text editor?

> You better stand back and take cover :(

Another of the good tips to follow: Look for the word "editor" in the
archives:

 1. It will answer the question in question.
 2. You don't have to stand back ...
 3. ... just take shelter, as you will get loads and loads of
 messages about the editor.




-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

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Erwarte von anderen nur, was Du selbst bereit bist zu geben. (Romy
Walda)


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Gerard de Vries]

 
ON Friday, February 08, 2002, 3:09:37 PM, you wrote:

Mary> 3. Please could somebody do something about TB's incredibly primitive
Mary> text editor?

You better stand back and take cover :(

Mary> Otherwise, I really like it :-)

To late now ;-)

-- 
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 Gerard  

Insert Cookie Here--> If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a 
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Windows 2000 Professional with TB Version 1.53t 



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Re[2]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Rick Reumann]

AS> I think the problem is that TB!'s editor is deliberately _not_ like
AS> other editors in many ways. That doesn't mean that it's wrong, but the
AS> ubiquity of Microsoft applications (and copies of the way they do
AS> things) exerts enormous hidden pressure to always do things the same
AS> way.

Well, I use a lot of editors that are not related to Micorsoft and
I don't think they all are trying to copy microsoft. Before I
complain at all, maybe I should first make the comment that
possibly I just have things set up wrong. Here's what I don't get:

Scenario I - Auto-Format is Off.
I go along and type up up stuff. Type some paragraphs hit return
to start a new paragraph. Everything is fine. Then I have to go
back add some text here and there and the text gets all messed up
so I have hit Alt-L periodically to clear things up. This I find
incredibly annoying, I'm sorry, you guys might like it but I'm
sorry I don't like it. So the answer you say is use Auto-Format,
which brings up scenario II.

Secnario II - Auto-Format On.
Well now when I go back and add text things wrap fine, so
everything is great until I hit return/enter and it doesn't bring
me to a new line.

I just really must be missing something here. This has nothing to
do with microsoft. I'm all for keeping the editor the way it is if
there is a good reason for this behavior that I just don't get.
And if there is a reason for this behavior this should be the
exception to the norm and the option be to select this type of
behavior.

The bottom line is why is there a not an option so that I can type
text have it wrap, be able to insert text and not have to use
Alt-L to reformat, and be able to hit enter to generate a new
line? This is simply intuitive and really has nothing to do with
being "conditioned" or anything by using other editors.

If I simply have The Bat! options configured wrong someone please
let me know. Thanks Lots.

_

Rick
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and
prejudices and just laugh at people."
 
  -Jack Handey


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Alastair Scott]

On 08 February 2002 at 4:00 pm Jonathan wrote:

> Use a high end editor (like Multi Edit, Slick Edit, etc) and see if you feel the
> same way!  The number one feature that distinguishes these are _configurability_
> (keymapping, toolbar, etc) although TB wouldn't the need extension-specific
> configuration.

> TB is actually pretty good, but it would be nice to be able to remap the
> keyboard - and not just for the editor - so that one doesn't have to remember
> multiple ways to do the same thing (e.g., reformat paragraph, F5 for search,
> etc.)

I think the problem is that TB!'s editor is deliberately _not_ like
other editors in many ways. That doesn't mean that it's wrong, but the
ubiquity of Microsoft applications (and copies of the way they do
things) exerts enormous hidden pressure to always do things the same
way.

Something else useful for new users (and old users :) would be a button
in Options | Editor Preferences to reset them to the defaults. It is
_very easy_ to go away from the defaults and get completely confused ...

(This is wish no.492 for those who want to look in the bugtracker).

Alastair

-- 
Alastair Scott (London, United Kingdom)
Using Windows 95 and The Bat! 1.54 Beta/37



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Re[3]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Jonathan Wayne]

Use a high end editor (like Multi Edit, Slick Edit, etc) and see if you feel the
same way!  The number one feature that distinguishes these are _configurability_
(keymapping, toolbar, etc) although TB wouldn't the need extension-specific
configuration.

TB is actually pretty good, but it would be nice to be able to remap the
keyboard - and not just for the editor - so that one doesn't have to remember
multiple ways to do the same thing (e.g., reformat paragraph, F5 for search,
etc.)


jon

Friday, February 08, 2002, 10:48:25 AM, you wrote:

Hello Mary,

Friday, February 08, 2002, 9:48:07 AM, you wrote:

MC> I've given up using autoformat (or was it "justify on wrap"?), because
MC> it deletes the paragraph marks, and it's too much trouble to hit enter
MC> twice at the end of each paragraph.
MC> It may sound like no big deal, but when you spend all day typing in
MC> programs that wrap automatically, it just doesn't come naturally.

   I am finding the TB! editor is growing on me to the point that,
   after a month or so of using it, I wish I could configure my other
   text editors and word processors so they worked in the same manner.

-
 Jonathan Wayne  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Shahar]

On Friday, February 08, 2002, at 16:09:37, Mary wrote about:
Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)


>> I have a shortcut to fentun in a desktop folder. The shortcut
>> specifies "Start in" the same folder. I save my attachment to that
>> folder, open the folder, drag the file onto fentun, extract the files
>> and they are saved back into the same folder again, ready to use.


> Wow, that's really, really convenient!

Thank you *very much* for that Howto.
Where do you want to go today :->


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Mary,

On 08 February 2002 at 15:48:07 +0100 (which was 14:48 where I live)
Mary Cassidy wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> What I meant was that with Netscape and Eudora, for example, if you
> write a message and then add bits to it, as most people do, the
> wrapping automatically puts itself right; you don't have to mess
> about with ALT-L or wade through the menus looking for formatting
> options.

The default formatting option is not to use Auto-format. The editor
preferences are few and reasonably simple. Auto-format is easily
turned on and then even more easily controlled with the Ctrl-Shift-F
keystroke. This is the option whereby the "wrapping automatically puts
itself right".

> I've given up using autoformat (or was it "justify on wrap"?), because
> it deletes the paragraph marks, and it's too much trouble to hit enter
> twice at the end of each paragraph.

Not really - it's just something to get used to. It greatly improves
plain-text legibility and is a habit worth cultivating.

> It may sound like no big deal, but when you spend all day typing in
> programs that wrap automatically, it just doesn't come naturally.

The default is to autowrap, but not to auto re-wrap.

As is often said here, the editor takes some getting used to but the
majority find it a task worth undertaking. There's a noisy minority
that will leap in and say "It's horrible, an abomination, get rid of
it, I hate it", but the consensus remains - try to get used to it.
It's a great little editor once you get to know it, capable of many
things that lesser editors just can't handle, and *so* well suited for
the task at hand.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
___
\ BrainStorm - think ... freely- http://www.brainstormsw.com  /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com /
·
TB! v1.54 Beta/37-14F4B4B2 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
·
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQE8Y/RjOeQkq5KdzaARApeqAKCRyDZiB3NgDQqjQ4vgV/Yk+byq/wCfeNFl
0kXM/1ux+Gdwtvc1I5jR2Lg=
=z8T1
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi David,

On 08 February 2002 at 10:48:25 -0500 (which was 15:48 where I live)
David Denton wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>I am finding the TB! editor is growing on me to the point that,
>after a month or so of using it, I wish I could configure my other
>text editors and word processors so they worked in the same manner.

Exactly!

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
___
\ BrainStorm - let the thoughts flow http://www.brainstormsw.com  /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com /
·
TB! v1.54 Beta/37-14F4B4B2 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
·
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQE8Y/MQOeQkq5KdzaARAkN/AJsGYnS6HdZNC8fgj4NCN2piPSQ6NwCfS6I+
2UHi394TqKVvnIVY5eioyIQ=
=2kRT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Roelof Otten]

Hello Mary,

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:09:37 +0100GMT (8-2-2002, 15:09 +0100GMT, where
I live), you wrote:

MC> 1. Please can the next version of TB treat attachments just like
MC> normal mailreaders do?

There is no 'like normal mailreaders do'. Recently somebody posted an
attachment with outlook 2000 to a restricted list I'm subscribed to.
Two members using Outlook Express didn't even see the attachment. One
member, using Eudora, saw the attachment, but had troubles accessing
it. TB saw the attachment, could save it, could access it.

Can't say that I've ever had any problems with TB handling
attachments.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof


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Re[2]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[David Denton]

Hello Mary,

Friday, February 08, 2002, 9:48:07 AM, you wrote:

MC> I've given up using autoformat (or was it "justify on wrap"?), because
MC> it deletes the paragraph marks, and it's too much trouble to hit enter
MC> twice at the end of each paragraph.
MC> It may sound like no big deal, but when you spend all day typing in
MC> programs that wrap automatically, it just doesn't come naturally.

   I am finding the TB! editor is growing on me to the point that,
   after a month or so of using it, I wish I could configure my other
   text editors and word processors so they worked in the same manner.

-- 
Best regards,
 David   


Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT
5.0 Build 2195
Service Pack 1


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Editor [WAS] Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Rick Reumann]

On Friday, February 08, 2002, 9:48:07 AM, Mary wrote:

MC> What I meant was that with Netscape and Eudora, for example, if you
MC> write a message and then add bits to it, as most people do, the
MC> wrapping automatically puts itself right; you don't have to mess about
MC> with ALT-L or wade through the menus looking for formatting options.

I know it's probably been brought up a million times, but what is
the reasoning behind why the editor works this way? That is why
when I go back and add text it doesn't wrap it nicely but has it
stick out or do other crazy stuff and then I have to use ALT-L?
And then like Mary said when auto-format is on it messes with the
line breaks. I'm getting used to going back and doing alt-L on
things but I'm curious why it is set up this way? I mean I have a
powerful text editor called UltraEdit and with wrapping on it
preserves line breaks but yet wraps according to what ever margin
I set it at.  Not trying to bring up the whole Bat editor war,
just curious behind the reasoning why it is the way it is.

-- 

Rick
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The memories of my family outings are still a source of strength to
me. I remember we'd all pile into the car - I forget what kind it was
- and drive and drive. I'm not sure where we'd go, but I think there
were some trees there. The smell of something was strong in the air as
we played whatever sport we played. I remember a bigger, older guy we
called Dad.' We'd eat some stuff, or not, and then I think we went
home. I guess some things never leave you."
 
  -Jack Handey


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Re: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Mary Cassidy]

Jernej Simončič wrote:


> MC> 1. Please can the next version of TB treat attachments just like
> MC> normal mailreaders do?

> It already does that - normal mail readers don't support MS's
> proprietary format.

I don't have wide experience of other mailreaders, just Netscape and
Eudora, and I've never had these strange .att and .msg attachments
before. I can open the .msg ones, but not the .att's, as other people
have said.

Today I received a message (not html) with a message.msg attached.
When I opened it by double-clicking, I could read the message OK, and
on another tab there was a tiny jpg image. When I maximised the
window the image was enlarged, but when I opened the message a second time it
didn't enlarge, and I had to click back and forth between the two tabs before
it would enlarge.

> MC> 3. Please could somebody do something about TB's incredibly primitive
> MC> text editor?

> Outlook has a primitive editor. The Bat's editor is perfect for e-mail
> (do a search in the archives for the word "editor").

I've never used Outlook, and I'm getting used to TB's editor, but I
still find it primitive.
I didn't mean that I want an html editor; I prefer text because of the
virus risk.

What I meant was that with Netscape and Eudora, for example, if you
write a message and then add bits to it, as most people do, the
wrapping automatically puts itself right; you don't have to mess about
with ALT-L or wade through the menus looking for formatting options.

I've given up using autoformat (or was it "justify on wrap"?), because
it deletes the paragraph marks, and it's too much trouble to hit enter
twice at the end of each paragraph.
It may sound like no big deal, but when you spend all day typing in
programs that wrap automatically, it just doesn't come naturally.

-- 
Mary

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re[2]: Wish list (was: Microsoft attachment)

[Jernej Simončič]

Hello Mary,

08. februar 2002, 15:09:37, you wrote:

MC> 1. Please can the next version of TB treat attachments just like
MC> normal mailreaders do?

It already does that - normal mail readers don't support MS's
proprietary format.

MC> 3. Please could somebody do something about TB's incredibly primitive
MC> text editor?

Outlook has a primitive editor. The Bat's editor is perfect for e-mail
(do a search in the archives for the word "editor").

-- 
Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/
ICQ: 26266467

[The Bat! v1.54 Beta/36 on Windows 98 4.10.. A ]

Whenever in time, and wherever in the universe, any man speaks or
writes in any detail about the technical management of a poem, the
resulting irascibility of the reader's response is a constant.
   -- Ciardi's Poetry Law


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