Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Turnandcough wrote: Does this mean that when we install the latest version of EDO we are also installing 50% of TT without actually having to install TT? Absolutely. There are - out of my memory - 1. Output routing to hw interface 2. Passing by asound.conf routing table 3. 2nd Jive_alsa killing 4. Buffer size modifications 5. Screen totally Off 6. Increase key process priorities (All this is no rocket science btw. - I do claim I'm the first who put all those tweaks together as package into the context of improving efficiency of the SBT) The measures I've applied, I obviously put into a slightly different context, which belongs to a different area of this forum. Triode would of course never admit that he also appreciates associated side-effects. He intends to survive a bit longer over here, so better don't touch that hot potato. I'm pretty sure EDO users are appreciating those side-effects. Just to mention it. EDO might even work without above listed measures, since the main issues seem to be driver and jive related. I'll stop here... However. What's common about the measures is that they intented to increase the efficiency of a computer system. They'd work on any Linux/Android system. Triode had serious problems to get rid of XRUNS in the early days. Even all my system optimizations wouldn't stop certain DACs to run into XRUNS. This led him into tweaking the Linux audio drivers. Just to mention it: USB audio has always been working on the Touch. Triode put an amazing effort into the subject and has shown a great level of skills to make it all available by putting it into the LMS/Squeezeplay environment. Great job. I do limit my appreciation to the Squeezeplay/LMS/driver part of the story... soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
SBGK wrote: another tweak to get EDO sounding good echo 1000 1024000 512 2048 /proc/sys/kernel/sem in the kernel section of the TT file makes quite a difference over the default or TT setting I think this is the wrong place to post your stuff. You seem to hijack the next thread with it. And would you please stop refering to TT. Your setup has nothing to do with my toolbox anymore. EDO freely implemented 50% of my toolbox by now. The remainder you've changed that way that there's nothing left from the original. Your settings apply to your way of setting things up and to your audio interface. There is no TT default. My Toolbox comes as a package - as is. Stripping this or that out, changing priorities and other parameters, asf, asf, will work with your any perhaps similar setups best. Quite a difference might be a confusing term to some and for sure belongs into the audiophile section. You'll never learn. I'm really surprised that you're still around. soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
SBGK wrote: try commenting out the following lines in the kernel section echo 0 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_app_win #new echo 1000 /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_period_us echo 999 /proc/sys/kernel/sched_rt_runtime_us the SBGK settings are really designed to put all resource to playback so user interaction is given very little resource. and before people say well it doesn't use any resource the idea is that with less call on resources the cpu will perform nearer to real time. Above you need to explain. Your overall settings - to me at least - are still looking like you're playing parameter bingo, without understanding much of it. Above parameters define the realtime schedulers time frame, which can be allocated by realtime capable processes. The first parameter says from 1s overall 0.999s can be allocated by SCHED_RT processes. The remainder towards 1s = 0,001s ( maybe I missed a digit) can be allocated by SCHED_OTHER (all processes without rt-scheduling). If you comment above values out you fall back to default values: 1000 950 which means 0.05s can be used by SCHED_OTHER. In your setup you put quite a lot of processes on IRQs on SCHED_OTHER. If you comment out above commands you'll cause less stress to the SCHED_OTHER group. You achieve exactly the opposite you're claiming. With this you'll concentrate on all other than audio processes. They key challenge on an rt system is to find the right balance between all the processes running. And that's a pretty complex task. And there's more than one solution. I doubt that industry experts supported you on this (and on many more of your settings). The overall approach of reducing load on the system with special focus on the audio process has not been your invention btw!!! It's known for quite some time. Anyhow. Keep going. But do your self a favour. Better stop making claims about this or that. You're still PiggyBacking on things other people have figured out. Enjoy. soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Screenoff works as it's supposed to work. My fault. I'm still in the warming-up phase. ;) I still need to measure the change on power consumption again. Another topic: Can you give me a hint where you change the IRQ-37 priority to 59? And where do they set jive_alsa to 45, same place? Thx. Sorry for bugging you. I try to allign some my stuff to yours. Cheers soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
what's low power mode? no ticks off in the kernel? I tested that some years back. I prefered that option to be enabled. what's worth to play with is the Config_hz param. I had it once running at 10k ( with driver patch) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Triode wrote: Is it still doing this - can you capture any debugs - it should turn off the backlight when the screensaver kicks in. Note you need to configure the screensaver to be Display Off not Screen Off which is what I think the default saver is called (which is hidden by the applet). How long did you set the timeout to be? The code is at: /usr/share/jive/applets/DisplayOff/DisplayOffApplet.lua if you want to look at it, it should also produce some logging when it turns the display on and off. Just got back. I'll check it out. BTW. Why do you call your devices Audio (formerly TXRX or similar) instead of default hw:0,0? If you pass asound.conf by there's no need to introduce new aliases IMO. soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
JohnSwenson wrote: 192 (and 176.4) will not work with PCM streaming. With PCM streaming the sample rate is sent via a separate command, but that command doesn't have anyway tospecify 176 or 192. With FLAC streaming the sample rate is included in the FLAC header, which DOES know how to specify 176 and 192. The latest and greatest beta 7.8 LMS has been upgraded so the sample rate command knows about the higher sample rates so PCM streaming will work. John S. Hmmh. Had the problem with 44.1/16. I also had flac binary issues on a Linux server once. I had to use the Ubuntu binaries instead. I need to check that out again. I had 7.8 running for a while. While scanning the files it hung up and the SB wouldn't upgrade. Looked not that stable to me. That got me back to 7.7. Cheers soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Triode wrote: It's intended to do the same as screenoff in Toolbox + also disable screen updates within squeezeplay, reducing the cpu load when the screen would be displaying animating text such as long titles etc. Please check the lua to verify I've got the same as you for the display off side of this... My intention is that you use this as the now playing saver with a short screensaver delay so that you can navigate normally and then disable the screen while listening. That's what I guessed. I installed it. And configured the screensaver to be off while playing. I still had the backlight on. Cheers soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Squeezebox touch+Triode's EDO applet+Hiface 2
Hiface II runs the XMOS interface chip. People who run the Wave-IO USB interface, which comes with the same XMOS chip, have problems to get that device recognized. That might happen to Hiface II too. The HII should work with the newest generic Linux USB driver. At times when I was looking into the Linux USB driver, a quirk (a special but very simple configuration in the usb driver) was required to get a new device (more or less a naming issue) that would be compliant to the generic driver going. Perhaps you can check with Triode. Triode is the guy who could take care of that. He is the one and only touching the USB driver every other day. Cheers soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95880 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Hi there. Just reinstalled everything. And replaced the binaries (sox/flac) on the Linux server again. I took the last 7.8.0 nightly build. Touch got updated too with 7.8.0. (I also cleaned up my music files to avoid any tag/cue problems on the db scan - not a single problem in scanner.log anymore) flac-PCM streaming is working now. Thx. soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Hi folks. Havn't been around for a while. Just got back to the Touch (after running my iPad as player for a while) Got a question. Not sure if it's a known or my problem. I didn't scan the last 60 pages of this thread. I have LMS 7.7.2 under Linux running and EDO installed. Somehow not any native PCM streaming is working. Local flac decoding on the Touch works. What am I doing wrong here? Advise appreciated. And another question: Is the screenoff plugin supposed to turn the screen completely of as I'm doing it in the Toolbox? THX soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Hi Triode. I'm gonna try your mod today. I'm wondering if there's a way to mod certain snd-usb-audio params, such as nrpacks?? Playing with that one led to pretty nice improvements on my linux machines in the past. Another one: Since you recompile a new kernel. Have you played with the timer frequency?? (The higher the better - at least on my Linux machines) Cheers soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
I would never ever consider to run in plugin mode. That's an awful downgrade compared to run hw mode. I'm pretty sure that the poor usb controller plus drivers are making problems. If I wanted to go the USB route I'd either get myself a MAC mini with Pure Music on it or a slim Linux rt-installation on a small computer such as FitPc (I still have one around. It's much too expensive though) Quite some people are extremely happy running an Alix board with a stripped down Linux on it). -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Probably you'd try the newest Vortexbox +Vortexboxplayer feeding your DAC. Buy yourself a Zotac Zbox or similar at 200$ and you'll might end up with a quite nice solution. I might try it myself. I tried the MF V-DAC II (IMO a very nice DAC) on my latest Touch setup (using plughw!!!) against a Windows 7 + JRMC 16 (RAM playback and Wasapi event style) + Fidelizer setup. My little ADAM A5x speakers were more than sufficient to tell that the W7 setup IMO performed much better at that point. Conclusion from my side: The Touch and USB DACs won't go together properly. I won't spent anymore time on that subject. The Touch via SPDIF (after heavily tweaking) can IMO outperform highest quality USB-SPDIF interfaces though. Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Hi folks. I just made a Musical Fidelity V-DAC-II working on TT3.0+ . A nice device. Under Windows the DAC sounds really nice (JRMC + wasapi event + ramplayback and Fidelizer-All On) On the SB I'm not there yet. (Still running the device plughw) John. FYI. You might want to try to play with the ehci interrupt 37. Just change it in my prio function of TT3.0. I just tried to set 37 to prio 96. I'm currently runnning the buffer at 4000us stable. Let see if it is really that stable. ;) Sounds promising to me. Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Paulkouhan;668566 Wrote: Hi ! Klaus (soundcheck) has made his TT 3.0 mod available !! I did install it but I have some trouble to make my USB dac working ... It was OK with the TT 2.0 mod with John advices. I did not found yet how to change the card to the USB one... Does someone achieve to make it work ? TT30 is pretty much prepared to support compliant USB devices. The function is just not activated. I just need a device for testing. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
paul.raulerson;664696 Wrote: Is there any way to control the video refresh or priorities? I tried turning the display completely off, and that seemed to make a difference. Won't claim anything until someone else can duplicate the results please. Of course, without any display at all, the unit is a lot less attractive to my wife. She has really grown to like the darn clock! :) But perhaps toning down the video interrupts or priorities or something... -Paul I'm in the final state of preparing my Toolbox 3.0. YOu can turn the display off and more, much more. You'd get your wife an iPad with iPeng or similar. I'm sure she'll love it. A nice compromise. Or better a win-win ;) -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
JohnSwenson;664319 Wrote: Hi Klaus, I did try nrpacks, it makes no difference for xruns, but does significantly affect sound quality. There are several parameters avaivable for the basic usb driver but I want to sit down with the source code and see what they do. The xruns do NOT seem to be in the alsa space, I'm not getting any alsa log messages about any xruns until I get buffer settings very bad. I think its something with the generic USB driver/hardware. Another interesting tidbit is the firmware used. With an early 7.5.1 firmware I get LOTS of xruns with 88.2 (this is all aplay), but a recent 7.5.1 has almost no xruns (still a few about two per song). This is with everything else setup exactly the same. With 96 the early and recent 7.5.1 give about the same results. SOMETHING in the firmware changed which caused major differences in xruns. John S. I played with nrpacks from 2007 onwards. At those days playing around with nrpacks made a huge difference. ;) During those days I also changed the kernel timer to 10khz instead of 1000Hz, which made a big difference. Within snd-usb-audio I also lowered the buffers which were set to 1000ms if I recall it correctly. Anyhow: I read that reasonable USB2.0 Alsa compliance starts with 1.0.23. Current Alsa - almost a year old - is 1.0.24. We're at 1.0.16 with the Touch. One more idea: Have you played around with the Alsa period parameter? You can change it in the known files. It is set to 2 by default. That's pretty aggressive. You might want to increase that and lower the buffersize. I don't have a DAC for testing it myself. Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
henrylar;664429 Wrote: I tried the the aplay -l as explained in the first post. It works perfect, no pops at all. Sorry for asking, but I got confused with the later posts, which probably has been about asynschroneous dac's. I will check the sound, but my experience with the Hegel is good when used from the computer. It might has something to do with USB1.1 vs. USB2.0. Certain chips read 24bit others 32bit asf asf. All that is not black and white. Many people over here, including me, experiencing underruns on certain DACs. Usually those which can also handle 24/192. If your Hegel works ... Enjoy. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
BTW... ...Vortexboxplayer. Cool. Never heard about it before. I'll have a look at it. Back to good old mpd. ;) Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
paul.raulerson;663199 Wrote: Now that I said that, I just got a couple pops and clicks from that. Guess I will go play with a couple different cables or put a small hub between the Touch and the DAC and see if that problem will go away. It sounds really really good. (Sans the pop thing.) -Paul Paul. That's the issue. As long as there pops/clicks or better XRUNS (buffer over-/underruns), you can't make use of that potentially great interface. Logitech won't seems to see the potential for selling more units because of that huge potential, by hooking up a great number ( the ones which can live without proprietary drivers) of USB DACs. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Just curious: Anybody out there who tried to play a .wav chunk just by using aplay ? -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Instructions for connecting USB DAC to Touch
Hi folks. I'm about to implement that USB configuration into my TT3.0. The Toolbox will scan to which interface the USB DAC is being assigned and automatically configures itself. So far it works. At least from the SW side. I use an buspowered Audiopilleo 2 (USB2.0!) for testing . Problem: I won't manage to get it working without XRUNS. I tried 24/32bit all kind of buffersizes. No luck. Any ideas are welcome. Q: Does the USB device need to support 32bit? Cheers P.S: Did anybody hear anything about an usb-audio driver update by Logitech? The one in place ( as well as Alsa) is more than outdated. We had a ticket open some time back. That one got simply ignored by Logitech. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;620359 Wrote: there are plenty of DAC's out there that aren't ruffled by such things... Shoot... ...let us know what DACs comes in mind. We're listening! The supposedly best I had in for testing so far was an Antelope Zodiac Gold (3k5) Thx God you 'measured (Case 4) ' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=610116postcount=329) the WLAN/LAN impact on the Touch! Now the battlefield can be moved on toward the DAC side. Or... ...Buy a Transporter. ;) Or. Buy a 12$ cable. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;616878 Wrote: I didn't say that! For sure there will be groupings of cases. For example, users of the Benchmark DAC's report that these DAC's appear relatively impervious to what's happening around them, whereas some other DAC's appear much more sensitive to Transports, cables etc... The Benchmark (which is using Centrance USB code, same as Empirical Audio and some others) is not immune. Not any of the other asynch USB DACs is immune either. (Check out AA. All DACs running Wavelength Streamlength asynch USB show differences on slightest PC optimizations with e.g. Amarra, Pure Music) Galvanical isolations, which is IMO a must, you won't find on many USB dacs. There's only one USB DAC I know which has a galvanical isolation in place, the Ayre QB-9. SPDIF transformer based galvanic isolations are more widely spread. To be honest I havn't found any direct path DAC yet, which is immune against incoming distortions from a transport such as PC or Touch or whatever. It needs a very intelligent jitter supression on the DAC side to cope with an incoming asynchrounus stream. If you go to a dealer or to a show to listen to a fancy DAC. If you see the guy in charge is firing up Amarra or Pure music or similar audiophile players to make the DAC sound best. You know this shown DAC is not immune. A different thing is if you feed e.g. complex DSPs, like you do ( or did) for e.g. running convolution, crossovers asf. Those innstallations manage to decouple the incoming stream almost 100% and suppress pretty much all distortions. In this case the audio transfer can be regarded as data transfer. It's no longer a realtime audio-stream. Another thing is if you use a good reclocker. E.g. an Appogee Big Ben in the line decouples quite well from the source. Again. Most asynchronous solutions, where the DAC clock is not the same as the source/transport clock do have issues. Of course some DACs can cope better with those distortions then others. As soon as I find an affordable DAC which is 100% immune against source originated distortions I can and will forget about my little Touch Toolbox project. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Which Category Ethernet Cable?
guidof;612592 Wrote: Hi Klaus: Are you saying that the Meicord company both authored the review and found that its own unshielded cable bested all other (presumably non-Meicord) cables? Or am I missing something? Guido F. I'm not 100% sure about the sequence how things happened. There was a first Stereo review in 2008. A Monster cable became reference cable at that time. The Meicord folks sat down at that time and started playing around with the stuff for a while. As soon as they realized that there is something about that subject and even found a nice solution they opened up a business. From what I understood Stereo did listening tests only and refered to the crosstalk numbers as measured by Meicord. But don't nail me on that. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82269 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Wireless vs Ethernet. Any sound quality differences?
Mnyb;610283 Wrote: But it is on the analog out it -has- a possibility to make a difference ? A different signal is reaching your analog amp ? ok. From your cryptic response I could extract your hidden believe (correct me if I wrong) that digital connections incl. endpoints don't suffer distortions. Interesting view. That definitely would make a nice case for the Myth Busters. I can tell you that my list of so called High-End DACs responding to my changes, grows on a daily basis. The latest was a 3k5$ device. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82026 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Guys. Don't panic! Calm down. There is no rush to run into wild network reconfigurations. The majority is running Windows anyhow, and those Linux based NASes seem to perform as well as Windows. For now we're talking about a minority of Linux folks or better Ubuntu folks in particular. Fact is that different systems and system configurations do seem to have an impact. Now it's the task to figure out what's causing it. Stretch your legs for now. Enjoy. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608163 Wrote: And according to your DIYAudio thread, this latest mod of yours makes it difficult to distinguish between Windows and Ubuntu. Yep. You got it. Though it is not my latest mod. It is the first try to figure out what's causing it. That's the whole intention of my Beta Blog - to gather feedback from others about a subject under investigation. I do realize that it was much too early to involve the crowd over here and elsewhere in that discussion. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bpa;608164 Wrote: Has network statistics been examined ? Has anybody counted the number of data packets being sent ? Does it change between different settings ? It's possible that there is a TCP segmentation issue and packets are segmented differently according to different settings. Has error / retrans counts on router, server and Touch been checked to see whether one if the system is having more problems (e.g. being overloaded) with one settings compared to the other. Since many Linux system have a common source for the Ethernet driver which is different to Windows - the issue could be in the driver. Wireshark could be used to compare network streams to see whether the settings change affects the contents of the packets or the dynamics of the packet stream. Can the Windows TCP registry or device manager settings be changed to match the bad settings to see if SQ of Windows server can be downgraded. Finally somebody with constructive feedback. Yep - we tested windows with - bad settings - how you call it. (I guess you mean the half duplex part). I just call it a setting. Linux driver issue: As you've seen people compared a Linux based NAS with W7. And here the result was similar. I even tested on a 2.6.38-rc2 kernel. Just to make sure to have the newest driver on board. Feel free to run the traces. I do regard all this as a community effort. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: IF there is an effect, it is RFI/noise getting into the Touch via ethernet cable. Nothing to do with TCP/IP or any of the logical OSI layers per se. How do yo know. Done your homework? Ever looked into TCP/IP issues and parametrization? I doubt that. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: However, of course the noise profile is subject to change according to what is being sent electrically up/down the ethernet cable. I'm not convinced this has anything to do with operating systems. Speculations over speculations. I can't believe that. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: The first thing I would do is use CAT5 (unshielded) cable between server-router and router-Touch to avoid RF bridging. Ferrite clamps at both ends are also worth investigating. That you can read since almost a year on my blog. If you'd read my blog. You could have learned even more about the subject and ethernet cables in particular. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: Or use wi-fi!!! Enjoy your Wifi. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: By baselessly insulting and patronising me you merely make yourself look even more foolish. I don't think so. Your cynism is omnipresent. You're the measurement guy over here who is not delivering anything, since weeks. If RMI/EMI makes it through the ground, who else around here has the EQ to prove what he is saying. Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: As a matter of fact, I was one of the first people outside of IBM to get TCP running on OS/2 over Token Ring! Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: When was that again. Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: As for your ethernet mod: how is that OS-specific? all you are doing is configuring the server NIC to run at 100Mbs half-duplex...so you are simply forcing half-duplex, which reduces bandwidth. You can do the same thing on ANY OS. I know what I'm doing. I also know what half duplex means. I also have a stonage degree on networking dear Phil. ...and before you ask, yes I have compared SBS 7.6 on Ubuntu 10 vs XP SP3 on different machines over Ethernet and guess what - THEY SOUND IDENTICAL. Sound identical to your ears on your system. It's all relative. BTW: Are you still running room equalitzation filtering on your Tacts by the way? -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
pippin;608181 Wrote: similar as in some found Linux to be better (ReadyNAS) and some found it to be worse? I would have to look it up. Whatsoever. Some peole hear nothing, some hear this, the others hear that. The OS seems to have an impact. For me a sign the have a closer look at it. No more speculations to feed the sharks. Each network itself has so many variables. BTW: I was just informed by mail that I should not forget to have a closer look at my Windows server network settings! -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608197 Wrote: Klaus, and anyone else who suspects that network comms are affecting SQ I think it was Phil who offered a simple test. Pull the ethernet cable out of the back of your Touch while it is playing a track. By definition, all network comms will stop at that moment, but the Touch will have around 40s of audio buffered internally (if you're streaming FLAC, presumably less if streaming WAV, more if streaming lossy compressed data), so you'll hear nothing but unadulterated playback of buffered audio. If pulling out the cable isn't practical for you, just wait until the track reaches 40s from the end, at which point the buffer will stop filling for about 30s (ie 10s before the start of the next track). I guess that if you've only queued a single track, then even that final 10s will be free of network traffic too. (NB these are the characteristics that I've observed on a Mac - it would be good to get similar simple observations from servers on other operating systems) This is surely a way for Klaus to gather wider feedback, since anybody can do this, and he won't be limited to just those people with two operating systems running. I suspect that the same 40s quiet period exists in wireless setups too (I'll check later), so the last 40s of a track would be a nice place to test the effect of wireless comms. So come on folks - let's help Klaus out here. What differences do you all notice during these golden 40s periods? Good luck with that very intelligent cable pull test. My blood pressure boils up while running back and forth pulling cables to catch the effective slot of 10s. I already hear the sharks commenting on non-compliant ABX testing. Then I don't even know what kind of routines will start up on the OS side, after pulling the plug. This can't be considered normal operation. Good luck to those who gonna give it a try. And guys. You don't help M. You help yourself. I'm not really interested if a QNAP 1234 or a Sheevaplug rev performs any different from an Apple Mini. I got a well working system at home. And I'm able to manage it quite well. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
kiat;607866 Wrote: Hi soundcheck I've compared the difference 1) ReadyNas Duo 1GB, firmware 4.1.7, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 2) Win 7 64bit, 8GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 I personally find that the ReadyNas Duo sounds better. Cleaner with tigher bass. I got similar feedback from a guy running a QNAP. Could it be an Ubuntu issue? Perhaps those NASs use a better network optimized parametrization?!?! However. Good news from my side. For now I figured out a workaround for Ubuntu based servers. I'll put the workaround on my TT-beta-blog as soon as I find some time for it. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Soundman;607962 Wrote: I also did a comparison with the following setup: 1) Squeezeplug + USB Drive with SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 OS: Debian Linux 6.0 - DE - utf8 Architecture: armv5tel-linux Perl-Version: 5.10.1 - arm-linux-gnueabi-thread-multi DBD: SQLite 1.32_01 (sqlite 3.7.4) 2) Win7 64bit, 12GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 Squeezebox Touch Firmware: 7.6.0-r9297 Interesting. Perhaps you'd try my workaround. You never know -- it might get even better. ;) BTW: Does your Sheevaplug got enough power to do server based flac decoding? -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I just wrote up the instructions on TT Beta Blog for the Linux folks around here. Let me know what you think. Have fun. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607593 Wrote: Update: Disregard those figures. I found a way to isolate the Perl module in the activity monitor, and I queued up a FLAC album (previous figures were based on an old OGG album). The Perl process seems to maintain a continuous level of network traffic at around 110-140KB/sec, until about 40 seconds from the end of a track, when it drops to around 25KB/sec. At about 10 seconds from the end it spikes to 1.6MB/sec. So it seems as though that spike is the player filling the buffer with the next track, and then the buffer is topped up continuously until near the end of the track (-40s) when the whole of the remainder of the track is in the buffer. So all that this shows is that, for the Mac at least, the period between -40s and -10s should be virtually free of network traffic, and should sound better than the rest of the track if there's anything to this theory. You know what I try next. I'm gonna play a wav file from SD-card with aplay from Touch commandline. ;) And just to mention it: All PC based audiophile players use mainly full file RAM buffering. Mainly to avoid heavy I/O load during playback. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607642 Wrote: I forgot to mention that my figures are for an unmodified Touch, so the size of the internal buffer is as Logitech intended. Am I understanding correctly the effect of the buffer reduction mod in believing that the Touch will be able to store less audio as a result of reducing that buffer size? If so, I guess a modified Touch will suffer from this continuous network traffic even during that golden -40s to -10s period. My buffer mod refers to the Alsa buffer size on the output. Which is 4000us. What you are refering to is the streaming buffer on the input receiver side. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607649 Wrote: Ah, OK. Have you been able to check the characteristics of the network traffic under Windows and/or Linux? Are they anything like the numbers I observed on the Mac? The friend of mine has done it. He measured higher throughput on his Windows machine. I havn't done much on a W7 system yet. I just did throughput tests on my Linux machine, while trying to tweak the ethernet parameters on both ends. Let see. I maybe have a solution to get the Linux issue resolved. We'll be testing it tonight. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
firedog;607323 Wrote: Because we always hear that both Linux and OSX based boxes are better. Witness products like the Auraliti and Mach2Mini. In addition, lots of industry insiders/designers of computer based solutions prefer MAC and Linux (example: Gordon at Wavelength). It's not that easy as you might think. And it is not black or either. You need to differentiate a bit more. Logitech is not using the soundlayer of any OS on the server side (let's not talk about Alsa on the Touch for now). What I am talking about is the communication towards the streaming client, which seems to be less efficient on my Linux system. If people or manufacturers talking about their preferences, they talk about a combination of operating system, soundlayer (incl. driver), application and sound device. That's a complete different story. Today OSX sounds good because there is an Amarra or a channeld Pure Music. Which shows that the application is in charge of making sure that the system resources are utilized in the best possible way. There hasn't been very much focus on this neither on the Windows nor in the Linux world. One of the best sounding app in Windows land is nowadays J.River media center. If you ask the Linux audio crowd, they'll tell you they all sound the same. No need to do anything about it. And that's why Gordon is right - from his perspective. I'd agree that OSX app designers have understood. They seem to put more focus on the subject then anybody else out there. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;607469 Wrote: I realise y'all aren't wi-fi fans, but you should try comparing the sound of the IP packets sent to the Touch via Windows to those from OSX AND linux over wi-fi... Even with all the flaws related to a wired connection being untouched, the wireless connection was worse. In fact it is most probably not the wireless connection as such, I suspect the wpa decryption, wireless driver etc. on the Touch to be the main bottleneck. There is a very little chance that'll get better with many of the wired flaws being addressed. However once in while it's good to reallign. I might give it a try. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bluegaspode;607503 Wrote: Trust your ears! Just yesterday I also read an article that lossless compressed audio files flatten the sound compared to their lossless uncompressed counterparts. If you don't try this yourself you will never believe it though. Great that you read an article. You could have tested it by yourself to find out. Fact is. It's not the flac itself, which sounds flat or different from wav. From a PCM perspective it is 100% identical to .wav once decoded. It is the realtime decoding causing the difference. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
paulster;607477 Wrote: I'm waiting to hear that Cisco switches sound better than Nortel, which of course is going to sound better than Netgear or D-Link. It's quite entertaining to hear the non-technical put their own spin on something which is quite absolute. The DTS test is all you need to verify that this is complete tripe, without getting into the technicalities of the OSI and hardware abstraction models and then network data transmission. Read my blog. I got an network/ethernet section over there. You'll find what you're looking for. Regarding non-technical: I am a graduated telecommunications engineer. I established my first Cisco based US wide WANs in 1992. You bet that I know what I'm talking about. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I'm pretty active since years on Audio Asylum and DIY-Audio. Just a side note - the way I see certain things: Audio Asylum is used by some manufactures as a marketing platform -- same over here, different people though. (perhaps those manufacturers havn't even realized that ;) ) Just by being present over here and supporting people with honest professional advise, will do marketing for them. As long as this complies to the forum rules there's nothing wrong about it. If it is Logitech staff or those iApp developers/company owners to name two parties with commercial interests I recognize over here doesn't matter. I do think that this forum is a Logitech company driven forum, not a private one -- right!?!? At least Logitech can do and claim whatever they want over here. So, at least some of you guys don't be so naive to think you'd be on save ground over here. You're not. Back to Audio Asylum and the measurements 1. For years I've been facing similar discussions as well as CICS who developed CPLAY/CMP on an XP platform. Especially the manufacturers ( with estimated accumulated 200 years of audio experience) were heavily opposing what was evident to those who were running those special PC installations. Manufacturer refrain: We measured it with 20k+ equipment. It's nothing there. Nonsense. (Even if they would have experienced the audible changes, you bet they wouldn't have told us) How in the world was I supposed to get around such an argument at that time!?!? Impossible. Nowadays pretty much all of them are running Amarra and Pure Music on their MACs. The funny thing, those apps are doing nothing else then that what my mods or Cics stuff were doing at that earlier time. Nowadays certain mods are applied the Touch. The best thing of all: Ayre even developed their own OSX SW player! Go to RMAF or CES. Count how many DAC manufacturers are using those apps. Ask them why they need it? iTunes is supposed to be bit-transparent! To wrap it up. If NON of those manufacturers gets the PC induced problems solved or measured it's not a competitive disadvantage to run those apps. As soon as the first DAC supplier gets the problem solved the competition will have a serious problem to explain why they have to use Amarra or similar. 2. Some words about SPDIF. There have been endless discussions about SPDIF and its quality potential, implementation, cable length asf. Try to look it up. It doesn't matter where you look -- e.g. Lavry or Empirical Audio or whoever -- non of them can give a consistent answer what to do with the SPDIF associated problems. Try to figure out a simple question about what cable length to use. Those vary from couple of inches to a couple of meters. Lavry and/or Nugent for sure have measured it and both of them are highly regarded audio specialists. Both of them come up with an opposite recommendation. I could go on and on with examples of people fail to measure and to nail down those SPDIF associated problems. It's obviously not that easy. Wrap Up: Measurements are very valuable. No question about it. Measurements do show directions. Doing it right must be considered a (very costly) art on its own. Measurements do fail to give an explanation for everything out there, that's a fact. I highly recommend to read this 'this' (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insightscontent_id=11pagestring=Do+Measurements+Matter) article about what highly regarded audio manufacturers think about measurements and the necessity of listening tests as the final confirmation. Enjoy. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: Thanks again, Klaus. So now with all these mods, is it true that the only unconquered territory on the Touch is the fact that the screen, even though disabled, is still operating in the 'touch sensitive' mode? How do you know? I guess you didn't follow my instructions to turn off those Sound effects. ;) Which apparently show up on the main speakers. @ didbox. Yep. There ain't no free lunch. As I said earlier, stripping down my solution has some side effects. And your Sound Effects issue is one of it. That's why I said turn them off before you start the journey. For now it is like it is. Sorry. Let see if I can do something about it with the next revision. What I do: I actually use that screen for setting up the box only. I use iPad with iPeng (my - by a large margin - preferred app to control my squeeze system). The invest hurts once, I know, though you'll never look back. I'd love to see a remote setup menu feature being integrated by Logitech/iPeng and a big switch to turn the entire screen and all related SW threads and functions (OS/kernel App) off. That would make the entire screen obsolete. (It worked similar on the Duet - why not on the Touch) magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: If that mode would to be disabled, do you figure it could make improvements to the sound? Are you asking me to bias you again? ;) You know my philosophy. In case I find the button I'm gonna push it and see what happens. I have the great advantage that I'm probably the only non-biased person around here. :D I never know what happens if I push a button. magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: Or are there other things on the Touch that are still left unmodded? You mean, if I'd have some more stuff in the pocket? ;) For now I'd say concentrate on the HW. You can expect similar jumps on that side. Key areas are the network and the SPDIF link. And not to forget the power supply of course. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605327 Wrote: Thanks for that Klaus... ANOTHER case of RTFM..I didnt do a factory reset first. Sorry! *EDIT* After FActory Reset all is installed as it should be. Thanks Klaus. Thanks. What you're saying is you confirm 100% compatibility of TT2.0 on Touch Firmware 7.5.3. ? Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605149 Wrote: Uhm... I'll just run Erlands patch. ta. The patch has been download a couple of hundred times. It should work. You can run e.g.: which ttvol100 to see if the file is there. In one case it happened that tar archives got corrupted. In such a case you just download and reinstall it again. Make sure you're at / directory when unpacking. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to lock audio output at 100% (I think)
RadioClash;605235 Wrote: I easily get lost in the seas of tech talk. Is there any need for me to apply this patch? I always keep volume on the Touch at 100%, only adjusting the volume through my amp. I also use Soundcheck's toolbox mods. No need for tech talk or advise It'll take you 5 minutes to find out on your own. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605307 Wrote: Just updated to 7.5.3 with the firmware change.. can confirm the Buffer mod no longer works, as well as the Jive2 setting remains disabled. Oh, got the ttVol100 mod to work, User Error.. Should RTFM better next time! :o) BTW: Did you do factory reset before you upgraded? I think I mentioned it on the blog. You need to get a clean base first to avoid inconsistencies. You'll have to reinstall the Toolbox after firmware upgrades. I won't support upgrades neither today nor in the future. You'll always have to do a fresh installation of my Toolbox on a factory reseted system. There was another question earlier today regarding 7.5.3 support: For now I'll stretch my legs. (At least in this area) My own box sounds better then ever before and everything works just fine. Every follow-up on every mini-update take numerous hours of testing and preparation and documentation and support. I'm not making money with it. This all means serious overtime on my side of the balance sheet. Beside that I havn't seen any serious changes popping up in 7.5.3. BTW my instructions say: Turn off automatic upgrades Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I've been playing with ethernet cables over the weekend. At DIY Audio somebody (kelli) stated that his ethernet cables (from Meicord.de), do perform much better then his Drakas. Those should be similar to the ones I'm running and referencing to. (Though the shield is cut now on mine and my Drakas come with Hirose TM31 plugs) I looked into it. I updated my ethernet cable section over at my blog. I made it a bit more specific. I added some more info about an ethernet cable review (german). There's been done some rather serious investigation about what might be causing those experienced sound differences on streaming devices. First on the list of potential sources causing the trouble was the shielding and 2nd the plug. (That I mentioned before). Obviously the caused distortions somehow must relate to HF/EMI/RFI/reflections interferences etc. affecting directly ( e.g. HF ground bridge) or indirectly the internal electronics of a streaming device. They don't talk about the Touch in particular. I put that note up here, because I consider it part of my solution/toolbox and a rather valuable update of the blog. Enjoy. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Mnyb;604880 Wrote: Shielded Ethernet may not be the best choice as you actually can create ground loops spanning all over your house ? Duno how susceptible a switch is to other forms of parasitic coupling, ethernet is normally galvanically isolated current loops right ? Not any homenetwork I've seen is properly grounded according to professional standards. How many active home network devices allow for professional grounding. And yes. The mess finds its way over the ground into the device. The wires are isolated, not the ground. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;605025 Wrote: Back in the days when I was using Squeezebox Duet, I had certain issues with the sound quality of that player. I felt something was not quite right with the sound. After digging through the Squeezebox server on the PC, I've 'discovered' the config option to disable variable volume, and to make it fixed on the server. Immediately after doing that, the sound became noticeably cleaner, firmer, and more authoritative. However, after I've upgraded to Touch, I've noticed (much to my dismay) that, despite the fact that the volume remained frozen on the server side, I was still able to lower the volume on the wireless controller. Needless to say, I was baffled as to why wouldn't this feature work the same on the Touch. It was obvious to me that this ability to mess with the volume from the wireless remote was affecting the sound quality, as the player was always on 'stand by', waiting for the further commands to hit it. Not good when it comes to dedicated digital transport. Finally, got this newest Soundcheck's Touch mod on Saturday (2 days ago), and once again, the moment I've applied it, the same thing happened: the sound got firmer, clearer, more authoritative, more musical. This fix indeed makes a very palpable difference. It is worth your every effort to do it on your Touch, as it will propel your hi fi into an even higher territory. Right after I've applied this fix, I've started hearing not only much deeper and firmer bass, but also much higher and silkier high frequencies (better cymbals and bells). In addition, many more previously hidden musical details became all of a sudden present and nicely carved up in the space. For example, I am now, among many other new things, hearing the subtle air around the vocalists, and that contributes to the illusion of three dimensionality of the reproduced music. I'd say by all means, don't hesitate, rush to apply this mod (it's super easy, shouldn't take you more than 2-3 minutes). It is also easily reversible, so if you don't like the change (and I wouldn't be surprised if some people here find it too revealing), you're just one quick Linux command away from restoring everything to its former soft, wobbly state. Thanks Soundcheck, I'd say of all the mods you've given us thus far, this one made the biggest difference in the sound quality on my system! Thx for the feedback. (I won't make any comments on your findings otherwise they'll lock me up in the Audiophile Section of this forum :D ) My obviously highly developed skill of committing mass suggestion worked on you again. Enjoy. ;) -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
you need to unpack that file first. run tar xvf toulchtoolbox20BB1.tar first -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
scooot;604703 Wrote: hi soundceck, thanks,i have it now.is it best to leave erlands patch(volume fixed at 100%)installed or uninstalled.regards scott It won't hurt to uninstall it I guess. In any case you would avoid interferences between both mods. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Hi guys. Yep, it's me once more. For those of you who're enjoying my Toolbox. I launched a new tweak. (Perhaps we should call it something else, you'll see what I mean later on) I talked about that mod respectively announced its effects earlier. ;) Just follow the TT Beta Blog link in my signature for more info about it. It'll might not apply to your setup. Those of you who managed to install the toolbox will easily manage to install the new mod too. Enjoy -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I can just tell you that I received numerous feedbacks about the audible differences, what I expected. Just read the latest comment over there. I'm not doing any debugging. Non of the modifications I introduced respectively its effects I'd expect to show up in a debugger. What I guess though is that the SW (application OS) and the HW layer somehow interferes. And that's might be that what's causing slight distortions, timing variations or whatever. The way how I verify my findings: I check all my mods in three stages 1. First I am doing several tests by myself. 2. Then I hand the alphas over to some friends with real high resolving systems without telling them what's gonna happen. If they get back with the same finding as I've experienced them. I'm pretty sure that I'm not dreaming. 3. I let the crowd at DIY-audio run the beta-tests and wait for the feedback. 4. I'm showing up over here by the time I'm pretty sure that there'll be an improvement on numerous systems. I'm not saying that Logitech is cheating on us. I'm and quite some other people just saying that the claim 100 is the same in terms of soundquality is not the same as having the control disabled the way petersw proposed. It seems to happen more than just setting that parameter. As soon as I set the parameter as petersw ( I made a reference to his proposal on my blog btw.), things are changing. Do me a favour and figure out what else is happening when setting that parameter. I'd be more then happy to use that volume control function again. That's actually the reason why I brought the whole issue up tonight - to find out what's going on. I didn't have the intention to get it into the toolbox, because for now I consider this issue a different issue then the other mods I introduced. Thx for your cooperation. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bluegaspode;604515 Wrote: So thanks first for referencing peterw's post - this makes it possible to at least know what your are doing. In the end you just changed a single line in the sourcecode, did you (the one suggested by peterw) ? Nothing deleted, nothing added, just one simple line changed. Instead of passing a variable (i.e. the internal volume value) that is computed in the lines before (with and without your mod) you are passing the hardcoded value of the maximum value. This definitely won't affect any timing in the Touch. No - I think it's your (or everyone elses) turn to prove that 100 != 100. As I already wrote it's simple - as in the end the Touch is just a simple computer so we can watch what values it processes internally (which here is as easy as it can get). If you turn on debugging yourself you can see what value is computed on your Touch when you set volume to 100%. If it's anything else than 65536 than your change has a positive effect (as you indeed disabled any change to the sourcematerial before it is passed to your DAC). If not - then definitely not and it's good enough to just set the volume to 100% with the volume slider. If I read comments on your blog like the following: then I think people need to be told that with your latest mod the exact same calculations still happen inside the Touch (just with the maximum volume value) with or without your mod. If you make them believe anything else I am calling that scam, I'm very sorry. And just to prove these harsh words: the actual volume is applied to the stream in this source-code-file: http://svn.slimdevices.com/jive/7.5/trunk/squeezeplay/src/squeezeplay/src/audio/decode/decode_alsa_backend.c?revision=8814view=markup (line 383,384,394,395) You cannot change it on your Touch though because that part is compiled into the binaries of the Touch. Yep. What can I say. you are the expert. You're probably right with all what you say. It's that easy. I will write a note on my block that all speculations about what's causing the difference might be misleading. Though as you can see. People are responding to it. Perhaps it just works in conjunction with the other mods. Who knows. I don't have a clue. And yes: I just change two parameters as proposed by Peter. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bluegaspode;604519 Wrote: But to not be the lonely critic here: Anyone who is not able to put his volume to 100% (maybe just 99% without knowing) will of course get improvements. Not only does his audio get a tiny bit louder (which will always sound better as we all know) but as said the raw material won't be changed. Your latest mod guarantees to have a volume value of 100% - anytime and failsafe (which is a good thing). I think if you'd advertised it just as that I guess I wouldn't be reacting as I'm doing now. Great. Let's get constructive. You might have a point here. Though I told most of the people to pull the slider to 100 to actually compare apples and apples. And I also thought I did pull it up to 100 while testing. I've been wondering if the number as shown in Peters mod wasn't 1 point to high It's 0x +1 isn't it. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Mnyb;604520 Wrote: So there is still a reason to fix it a the player level, god knows what happen when involwing mysb.com. locked this way I think the player happily ignores all replaygain crossfade and whatnots you can turn on on the server. So the result is exactly the same but it is more likely to stay that way as logi still has interface bugs that can move your volume. OK. That's what we're looking for I'd guess. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;603067 Wrote: Interestingly, most people so far seem to have stated that they can't hear any differences/preferences on a quick a/b... seemingly the effect of the mods only becomes apparent after extended listening, with no comparative baseline... Phil. Please stop this crap. You again try to hijack this thread. You've tried it also on the other thread. If people lookup your recent posts they'll pretty much come to that very same conclusion. You are one of the very few who shows up with an extreme destructive attitude all the time and don't contribute ANYTHING constructive. Beside that now you even start spreading false messages around. You're the one and only (though not to forget there are some followers who usually chime in) continuously, in pretty much all threads you show up, and these are many, hijacking simply everything which doesn't fit your way of thinking, respectively not fitting your agenda. Why don't you just stay out of these kind of discussions instead of poising the environment. I don't have anything against constructive feedback. That's appreciated very much. But destructive posts and false statements like yours are just not acceptable to me. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;603293 Wrote: Klaus On the contrary, I find that Phil's contributions are highly constructive (call me a 'follower' if you like), and certainly help to clear away a lot of the misleading information that appears on this forum. If Phil plays the living manual for all kind of people fair enough. If he takes load off the Logitech designers and marketing fair enough. If he thinks he has a clue about everything. He's wrong. If he thinks he can intentionally spread false statements. He's wrong. This guy just disqualifies himself with his attitude. No further writing about this particular person from my side. It's really not worth it. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I just want to let you know, that I unsubsribe from this thread! My original intention was to support people over here having issues with my Toolbox. Unfortunately this thread turns into nothing but a disaster. The reasons for it are obvious. If I could I'd lock that thread. Because you won't get an answer on your questions from my side anymore. Again thx to all the people who appreciated and still appreciate that Toolbox. Trust your own ears!!! Enjoy. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Flextreme. You're outlining pretty inconstant conclusions. That's the weired thing. You seem to try to apologize for your subjective findings. You pretty much confirm what Guido is saying, tough you call it subjective (though I guess nobody told you what expect), on the other hand you stress yourself heavily with questionable ABX testing. And finally you conclude better to wait for the great master to tell you that everything is nonsense. Believe me you're not the only one having that subjective feeling, I'm receiving quite some mails everyday. As I say on the blog: The impact on any audio chain you'll experience ( with any change) will differ from system to system, grade of implementation, from person to person, from track to track, from room to room, from time to time, from mood to mood, from preoccupation to preoccupation, from agenda to agenda, from selective perception!!! to selective perception, asf asf. Selective perception I consider one of the key elements. You need to know what to look for. Otherwise it's gonna be and stays a subjective feeling. In my opinion it is impossible to finally conclude anything about the subject. Because results will always be different. What one can conclude about though will be a certain tendency. One thing you can bet on: I don't intend to make myself look like a fool. I put quite some effort into it. The toolbox went on quite some different system before going public. I even presented in on a DIY fair last October. Of course I do listen very closely to other then FUD feedback. You guys enjoy trust your own ears. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
JohnSwenson;602505 Wrote: Done right all these software tweaks really are unnecessary to achieve the best sound. Yep that's in fact the challenge. Doing things right! Though if products sell well, you got it done right! ;) It's always a matter of perspective. Soundwise, 99,9 % of those products out there are affected. All manufacturers have to live with certain compromises. Though I think we should put this discussion into the right perspective. We're talking highest-end stuff here. At 250$+PS+SW mods, you'll able to achieve audiophile levels with the Touch. And there is still some space left. I could live with my setup for a long long time. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
ste1;602472 Wrote: Nb - Why not approach Logitech to turn it into an Official plugin ? I'm wondering if they like what they read over here resp. find at my blog. 1. There's not much left of that original product by the time you're done with the mods. It'll be a Duet II kind of device. No frills , just sound! 2. And then there is the transporter. (Although Mercedes is not making the money with the S-class.) 3. And I pretty much propose things the other way around as they're doing it. Flac decoding on the server etc.. Still I think if words spreads around about that added audiophile potential they gonna sell even more Touches. If they want to talk about integrating my solution -- I'll be here. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Hi folks. Thx for the positive feedback first of all. Good to see that you like what you hear. ;) Just a comment: I havn't listened to a DAC which would be immune against incoming distortions caused by a PC or similar device. (I'm running a SABRE 32DAC btw. - which is supposed to be able to handle incoming jitter quite well. Forget that - not under the conditions I am and many others are driving that or other devices). SPDIF for sure plays a very important role in that game. SPDIF comes with known limitations. It is a very sensitive interface. USB comes with different problems. Even those supposedly great asynchronous-USB-supposed-to-be-immune-against-everything-DACs do need an Amarra, Pure Music, J.River or similar for sounding best. Even if operated in bit-transparent mode. Even Ayre has written their own SW-playback software for OSX! A manufacturer who'd accomplish 100% immunity against distortions caused by a PC, will have a real good marketing message and selling argument. That's my guess. John Swensson AFAIK tried to and did slave his Touch to a DAC master clock. Slaving the transport will be a better approach of course. Though I'm sure he'll face other challenges to keep PC induced distortions out of his setup. Enjoy. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;602426 Wrote: Except of course that in a normal Squeezebox setup (wi-fi or ethernet), there is no electrical connectivity between the PC and the DAC... so what is happening electrically on the PC makes no difference at all, since all that is flowing to to the sb is IP Packets, which have no timing/jitter, noise or distortion issues! :-) By the way have you ever tried a Benchmark or Lavry DAC? - I'm curious. I'm talking about the Touch having the same problems like a normal PC. Pretty much all problems I figured out on my Linux PC journey do apply for the Touch. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
scooot;602442 Wrote: hi soundcheck, i posted earlier on other thread before you switched it over here.i done mods,all ok then updated touch sotfware.reinstalled mods but the buffer mod would not take.it kept reverting back to 2 after rebooting. you suggested a factory reset for touch,then reinstall the mods from the starting point. that has sorted it,buffer mod now in place and all ok.i only need to to the wlan mod now or maybe not.i will keep looking to see your findings after the testing you are doing.thanks again.kind regards scott Good to see that you managed! Now enjoy. ;) -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I just digged out a new mod. :D Folks. You wouldn't believe it. Sometimes it really surprises me what's being left on the street by those SW designers. However. It really shows how well the HW is done. @Flextreme and all others running 2.0: If you guys think that was it, you'd be finished with 2.0. Buckle up. ;) -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Hi folks. I forked this 'thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061) over here, since the title of that other thread was kind of misleading. ;) We were actually discussing my newest Toolbox 2.0 since quite some time over there. Since last weekend my Touch Toolbox 2.0 is available. If you have any comments/questions let me know. Since last weekend I'm continuously finetuning the blog based on the feedback I got. Just follow my signature to try the modifications. (Reading the blog for sure will be more time consuming that implementing the modifications.) :D Enjoy. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
Hi gents. I just forked this thread over to 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=602139#post602139) since I found this thread title kind of misleading. ;) I btw added chapter 1.8 to the blog making some comments about upgrades. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
Hi folks. As requested, I added a little screenshot to the blog to hopefully make the installation a bit easier. I also revised a bit the flac and other formats decoding instructions. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
scooot;602025 Wrote: that you must have done extensive messing Dear scooot. How comes that you figured out I've been doing extensive messing on the Touch. Please let me know what makes you think so. I'd strongly recommend that you better stay away from my Toolbox with this kind of attitude. Just press the black button on the back - it's that easy. Otherwise have look at my programs - these are just scripts. You can easily figure out on your own about what mess you're actually talking about and how an upgrade process would be affected by those. Or you might want to read my blog first. There you'll find what revisions are supported. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
rgro;602035 Wrote: +1 on that Gary.slang expressions are always very difficult to transfer from one language/culture to another. I don't thing scoot meant to insult in any way. Sorry, If I misunderstood the expression messing around. I'm gonna take it as compliment in the future. :D -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's audio@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
rgro;601495 Wrote: For me, it was moving up one in the root directory that wasn't clear. I easily copied the file over to the directory that came up on the right side of the browser window (and you have to remember to set the browser window to Commander mode, otherwise you only get one pane) but that was, of course, the wrong directory. I finally figured out that I needed to go up a directory, put the file there and, voila, all was good from there on. When you're completely unfamiliar with this stuff, nothing is obvious. Sometimes, when you work with something every day or know it inside and out, it's really hard to see that something that is completely automatic for you could really befuddle somebody seeing it for the first time. That's why a good technical/manual writer is worth their weight in goldcan forestall hundreds/thousands of tech support emails, calls, name-calling, etc. ;). You did great, Soundcheck...just needed a few tweaks for us noobslike anything else does. Thx for the feedback. It's obviously not that easy.I never stepped over commander mode. What I'm gonna do is I'm packaging the toolbox with absolute path assigned. Now it's done according to standard: the files got a relative path assigned. When unpacking at the wrong place a filetree will be built from your actual location. Consequence: All the files end up at the wrong place. That's why some people get in trouble. If done absolute you can unpack them wherever you want. They'll always end up at the right spot and you guys save one step. Some background: Packages are packed the relative way because it is more secure. If done absolute, it can bear a security risk. Criminal minds could put nice little gadgets at any place they want to. My scripts are open. Everybody with scripting/programming skills can see what I'm doing. That should put all of you on the save side. ;) Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
Phil Leigh;601574 Wrote: I'd like to understand the thinking behind the buffer sizing... why should this impact anything? Dear Phil. Just try it - I made it very easy for you and others to change values. You can do simple ABX testing on any of the mods I present. And if you can't hear or measure it, that doesn't mean that it does not exists It just means that you can't hear or measure it under your conditions, which are different from the rest of the world. Not any system is the same. And measurements are an art on its own. I don't believe in any of those measurements out there. You can turn all on and off with one command. I play completely open here. Yep. I do even claim that turning off a channel in asound.conf makes a difference. As I wrote on the BLOG: Less is more - that's the philosophy behind all my mods. It's that simple. You might want to look at the alsa pages how a buffer works and gets managed. Don't forget to look up the code and kernel scheduler, timers drivers, interrupt handler, power supplies asf. to figure it out. Good luck. You'll need it. I just stopped speculating about what's causing this or that. You see that the discussions I started earlier ( see Mnyb link) won't lead anywhere. I just try an idea and see if it works. I can tell you I tried plenty of other measures which went into the wrong direction. People like Gordon Rankin (Wavelength Audio) are not able to nail those effects down, even though he got the best analyzers and equipment at hand. At least people like him and Charles Hansen (Ayre) meanwhile admit that those effects exists. Hansen even wrote his own player. (And all thhis sudden honesty took a lot of time to show up. (Due to obvious business related reasons. If all DACs suffer you admit it openly. If not the effect doesn't exist because you can't measure it - pretty simple marketing strategy to protect your product.) Even those guys enjoy software like Amarra or similar, because it just makes computer based audio sounding better. Again good luck on your quest. I gotta run. Need to enjoy my small buffers settings. :D Beside that I need to figure out new mods. Listening to great sound challenges my creativity to go after more. :D Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
slackhead;601629 Wrote: I guess that switching off the wireless and the screen is probably contributing significantly. All modification are of cumulative nature. Some of them got more some less impact. That's right. ;) That's why I'm saying if you can't run wired or with screen off - don't expect huge jumps. Many people asked for WLAN on/off though. I wasn't really happy with this request. However I still built that feature in. Even small improvements can be enjoyable. Thx for the feedback. Good to see that it worked out for you too. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] ayre QB9 + touch USB
It's probably the Linux Alsa USB driver. It is really old. And might cause problems with asynchronous DACs. If I recall it correctly John Svensson handed in a patched driver quite some time ago. I'm not sure if it never made it into the firmware. Let see if it ever will, respectively if Logitech ever updates to a newer kernel resp. Alsa before Touch reaches EOL. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84621 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
firedog;601409 Wrote: I agree. The page does say it, but make it a little more explicit that logging in may require clicking up to the root directory. I missed that at first. You might want read the updated phrase. Perhaps I'm gonna upload a screenshot. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
Covenant;601436 Wrote: I have half done the mods but have ran into a problem. I get an error message which says failed with return code 127. I didn't get this yesterday when I tried altering the buffer to 3600, that worked and ttstat works but the error message pops up when I try ttout-d. Ssh is enabled. Any clues? ttout -dspace? -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
scooot;601458 Wrote: hi soundcheck, is there any chance you can post some screen shots of the touch mods procedure.i am totaly lost off from 1.2.4 on the instructions.i am very limited on computer based knowledge so it is just going over my head.i very much want to do the mods.thanks.kind regards scott. More people seem to have a problem to copy a file from a to b. I assumed this would not be any different or more complex then using MS explorer. Totally lost!?!? Come on, you must be kidding. When logging in to the Touch you login as user root. That's why you end up in the /root directory first. From here we need to go one directory level up -- you just doubleclick on the single folder icon on the right hand side of that WinScp file browser. Then you'll see several directories showing up e.g /usr /sys /var /tmp asf. on the right side. Now you're in the / directory. Almost done. :D Now you change directory on the PC side (left) of that WinSCP browser to pick your downloaded toolbox file where you downloaded it and just drop it into the right side. You're done. Now you just continue to run all the commands as described from 1.2.5 onwards. Best: copy/paste those listed commands. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
Gazjam;600895 Wrote: +1 Fantastic improvement to the Touch's overall sound. One thing though, after installing all the mods and checking with ttstat, I see the following entry? Unknown HZ value! (90) Assume 100 What does this mean Klaus, and is it a problem? Thanks very much...I'll be letting other forum folks know all about these fantastic mods. You deserve reward for your work. No its not a problem. I actually left a remark about it on the blog, because I knew this question would be coming. It's a kernel related problem. Logitech just need to apply a kernel patch for solving it. BTW. I just changed from Beta to Normal status. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
No - No changes from Beta to Final. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
guidof;601157 Wrote: OK, so I have a problem before I even start. On the Touch, I've enabled ssh as remote login On the WinSCP dialog box, I entered the Player IP address (192.168.1.6), the user name (root), the password (1234), the (default) port (22), the protocol (SCP), and pressed login and . . . \NETWORK ERROR, CONNECTION REFUSED\ What am I doing stupidly wrong? Thanks for any help Guido F. Are you sure your IP ends with .6 and not 206? Check your Touch setting once more. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch mods from Soundcheck no more available
firedog;600760 Wrote: the 2.0 mods are now downloadable: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html I unpacked the file in my Touch root directory, but the directions he gives for initializing the files (run commmand ttinit) in the root folder didn't work. I get not found. As a matter of fact - I uploaded a BETA version for testing last night. Feedback is appreciated. I hope to have enough feedback by tomorrow to get away from BETA. Several people managed to get it installed according to instructions already. Your issue: Please check if you've been in the right directory when unpacking the tarfile. Otherwise it won't work. While unpacking the file ( running the tar command) you should see the file exctraction printouts in the terminal window. If not something obviously went wrong. You might try a copy/paste of the listed tar command. Good luck. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84061 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Experts - comments on these Touch mods
They will. ;) -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79857 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Wireless vs Ethernet. Any sound quality differences?
adamdea;577179 Wrote: In a nutshell 1 there is no rational reason why wi fi cannot stream data as accurately as a wired connection 2 some people think they can hear a difference in the music played by the different routes through a Touch though. 3 the explanation posited seems to be that the wifi receiver (and possibly the processor) has to try very hard and that this might make the touch handle the wireless stream worse than wired ethernet stream even if the two streams are themselves identical 4 early generation wifi suffered from unreliability and drop out which lead to the standard mantra being that you shouldn't use wifi for high quality audio. 5 some people don't hear any difference and attribute the suggestion that there is a difference to expectation bias. (Do these big black speakers sound a) dark, b) bright?) 6 similar considerations apply to a whole raft of other possible tweaks (offboard flac conversion, turning off extraneous processor functions etc and possibly to others such as turning off analogue/digital outs). Personally I listen over wifi because I can't be bothered to re-wire, and have separate mains spurs powering the hifi so I doubt powerline will work. If i go to the trouble of installing cat 5e throughout my house I probably not bother to A/B afterwards anyway because it will be too late by then. By my guess even if wired is better a. you could reproduce the same result by having a second wireless router thingy wired to the touch. I may try this. b. most people who currently strongly prefer wired connection would not like that idea at all for a variety of reasons which will range from metaphysics to quantum field theory and all of which may be true. Basically if you don't already know what you think before listening I bet you will still be unsure after. I Number 2 should read: Some systems do show improvements depending which route was chosen others not. The more revealing your system the earlier you'll hear it. Or: Some DACs are that great that source associated flaws won't make a difference anymore. Or: Check the batteries of your hearing aid. But: It's not about thinking of hearing something! I am sure those discussions will go on forever. Every 2nd thread over ends up like that. Enjoy. (I do!) -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82026 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Experts - comments on these Touch mods
Phil Leigh;556765 Wrote: T I've installed the tweaks. Will do some listening after the football (soccer) So Phil - what do you think? It's 4days. Are you still shocked? :D I think krzys described the improvements quite well the other day. Meanwhile there are quite some people who applied the tweaks. Most of them report pretty consistently the same effects. Thx again to John for his willingness to run the scripts at an earlier stage. All this of course is no rocket science. If you follow the endless discussions at DIY-Audio and AA about PC optimizations, you'll see that these kind of things are being discussed for about 4 years by now. The Touch I consider the perfect base to apply certain of those findings discussed over there. What I can say is that there's is still some space left. On my own Linux based audio transports, I can apply things like full file RAM-buffering - no external streaming during playback, offline/remote volume control, more kernel tweaks - you name it. I still hope that Logitech starts thinking about a kind of Duet MK II device, by using the Touch base ( didn't I mention that before? ;) ). I'd predict less cost and hazzle and a higher margin for Logitech and even more fun for the audiophile customers. They should also team up with iPeng to provide a nice control for iPad (That'll save even more cost for them!). Enjoy. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79857 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Experts - comments on these Touch mods
Kuja;557877 Wrote: Of course I can it try by myself and see. :) You better hurry up. Don't forget to invite your friends. ;) -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79857 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to lock audio output at 100% (I think)
erland;552144 Wrote: Isn't that what the already supported replay gain tags are for ? on mp3s. on flacs. Ever tried that on .wav? ;) And: Replay gain refers to normally 89db (83db you'll find in the specification) as reference. Everything will be adjusted accordingly. But that's not at all related to the material and the recording and the type of music. I played a lot with Sox to figure out how to apply a generic algorithm. I gave up on it after a some tries and discussions about it. In my case - I set it once and that's it. It'll perfectly match my system configuration, environmental conditions and personal listening preferences. If my overall system gain changes and I'd need a general gain adjust on my source material, I just run a script that adds or subtracts respective dbs on all my album volume flags. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to lock audio output at 100% (I think)
JohnSwenson;551727 Wrote: Volume control IS one of the things that is handled in both the player and the server. Whether volume is always max or not could be done just locally or it could be done using the complex local/server approach that volume control is dealt with. I'm leaning towards leaning towards letting Logitech decide if its something they want as just a local setting or not. Of course anyone could write an applet that does it locally and bypasses any official word on the subject. John S. John. Ever tried offline volume control - converting the file before it gets played? I did and do. ;) On my own player. It makes a difference in that setup. How would I run my volume control on the server? Is there a variable in convert.conf that I could apply to a Sox command or something like that? BTW: On my own player I use a best-volume variable per album. On .wav and .flac. The value is stored in a file of the directory of each album. This way I don't have to do any volume control on the fly during listening sessions. The player starts. If the file is there the value will be applied. Pretty simple and effective. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Touch tweaks: Turning off USB possible?
Hi folks. On my quest to turn off and tune everything what's possible on the Linux side on the Touch, I got stuck on one idea. I am wondering if anybody sees a way to turn off usb from the Linux side? On a standard Linux system I'd start the kernel with kerneloption nousb. I do not have any clue how to accomplish this on the Touch. Anybody around who'd have a clue? THX Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79005 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] how to open up the squeezebox touch?
Now we gotta DUET II (respectively a stripped down Touch) at 3 times the price of a Duet receiver. I am asking myself - who is the actual winner in that game? I am wondering if Logitech guys are reading this. It must be frustrating for these guys - at least for the technicians. I mean, this discussion sounds like pretty bad press to me. Just to summarize what's being said over here - the message is: Take out everything what makes a Touch a Touch. The community will be more than happy about it - at least the ones who look for great soundquality. There is no way that you can go back once you're done with the tweaks. --- Dear Logitech. Pleeease - build a DUET II - no frills. Half the size of the old DUET should be possible. You might even skip Wifi (or built in a switch to turn it completely off), since Wifi messes with the sound anyhow. Just focus on sound quality. You might think of an I2S output. (I am not asking for USB on purpose) . And 24/192. Stay with 5V on the DC side. We'll take care on the linear supply.You might consider GBIT ethernet. If the quality is good enough you'll be able to sell it at 199$ and probably come out with an even better margin than you'll see with the Touch. For sure you'll have much less trouble compared to the Touch, with such a product. And for sure you'd turn the traditional High-End-Audio world upside down, with such a product. ;) TX for listening. Best regards SC -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78244 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] USB Digital out?
JohnSwenson;544756 Wrote: I don't think there is ever going to be an official USB DAC option in the Touch, its not the market they are aiming at. I'm going to be putting together an applet that you can download that will enable you to send the music to a USB DAC. Its NOT going to be plug and play, you will have to plug in the DAC and bring up the menu and select the USB DAC. Doing true plug and play will take some udev programming that is out of my expertise. John S. My guess: Logitech won't support USB because they won't be able to guarantee that all USB DACS will be working with the standard Alsa driver. Some of the DACs even need firmware loaded etc. They'd face a lot of trouble. I don't think normal customers would not accept a statement like It's not our fault , it is Alsa's or the vendors fault I would understand if they don't touch that hot potato. But as we said earlier. Doing the simple asoundconf mod and being able to mod the Touch application Alsa device parameter settings would be a pretty simple exercise. -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78469 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Sending audio to USB DAC?
Hi folks. I face difficulties to get my PCM2707 going. I tried all kind of stuff. Of course I got thousands more options - not now. I don't think it is that easy to combine a 16 and the 24 bit devices. (I tried plug etc.). Jive_alsa crashes all the time during startup. When starting it manually I can see the error codes. Some of the tests ended up so bad that the Touch died with a kernel crash. The only thing I managed to achieve so far is that I can run default config ( card 1 in asound.conf) at 24bit with my 16 bit DAC and Johns setup. But that generates clicks here and than. What a pity that the jife_alsa startup parameters seem to be hardcoded. It would make my life much easier if I could assign flexible parameters ( e.g. device and bitdepth) through a config file somewhere. Should be a No-brainer for the designers to implement something like that. ;) However: I managed quite easily to run aplay with data from SD-card on my USB DAC. Works flawless and sounds great - really good. I also had a problem to get my Opticis optical USB going. It usually comes up as a hub. My guess that's not manageable by the current embedded Linux - a combination of a hub and a snd device. In any case I consider it a must-do for the Logitech folks to implement that usb-audio support - at least to a certain extent. This lifts the Touch up into a different league. And opens up a complete new and huge target group. I 'd guess that the majority of PC-Audio people got USB DACs at home. I am not sure if they would switch to the Touch if they would have to switch to SPDIF. The implementation efforts will cost close to nothing for just making the driver available - my guess. However, Logitech could not guarantee device support beyond Alsa device support. That must be one of the key obstacles and reason not to go for it. In this case a community plugin would be needed. Logitech just would have to fulfill our little wishes, which will cost even less. John: You said you're working on a plugin. Do you think Logitech would be open to discuss little changes to set a proper base for such a plugin? The two issues from my point of view are card numbering to get rid of the rather random numbering and flexible configuration of jife_alsa start parameters to be able to change e.g. the device id as defined in asound.conf and bitdepth. Another nice-to-have feature would be that hub-support. And: The new Alsa usb-audio driver 1.0.22-B is lighyears ahead ( much wider device support, asynch USB, 192khz, better USB handling...) of the old stuff on the Touch. Hopefully one day we'll see a 2.6.33-rt and 1.0.22b Alsa on the device. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77927 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SQ: streaming vs. local operation
I am wondering if it is a good idea to take the headphone output as reference. As far as I have seen (within Alsa) the headphone out seems to be fired by a Wolfson WM 8974. The AKM DAC for the analog out has much better specs. Still I'd guess that the SPDIF performs best, since also the AKM can't be called a high-end performer if you look at the datasheet. I looked up the specs of both chips. The Wolfson chip specs are not what I'd call impressive. It seems that they havn't put much focus on the headphone output. The Wolfson is btw running 16 bit and 48khz max. (It seems that they are running it with a 2nd jive_alsa process - AKM and SPDIF though goes 24bit and are fired in parallel by Alsa) No idea if they add dither to the 16bit signal of the Wolfson after volume control. Usually this should be done. This would change the results even further. So. If measurements should be done, than SPDIF is IMO the first choice. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77908 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Sending audio to USB DAC?
Hi John. I had a look at the Touch. The snd-usb-audio module is already there. What's required as far as I see it, is to a. load the module during boot b. and to adjust asound.conf accordingly. The key question is how do you load the module? Udev? Would be nice if you tell me/us quickly how you've done it. ( No in-depth explanation required). asound.conf is not an issue. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77927 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Pushing power button does not start OFF screensaver
You could have added to the Ticket that by stopping a song with clear playlist ( I tested it with iPeng) the off screen saver won`t stay activated either. Backlight will be on on a black screen afterwards. Or sometimes not any screensaver will be activated. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77990 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Sending audio to USB DAC?
JohnSwenson;540910 Wrote: The driver is in the kernel and automatically gets activated when the USB DAC is attached. After plugging in the DAC you can ssh in and do aplay -l to find the device name. The alsa interface in squeezeplay sends to default so the simplest way to get data to the USB dac is to redefine default to be the USB DAC. Currently in the alsa config file there is a virtual card defined which clones its input to both the S/PDIF and DAC drivers. That virtual card is then set to default. You can add the USB DAC to the virtual card as well and then you have all three playing at the same time. One thing to look out for is that the device name and or card number is different depending whether the DAC is present at boot or hotplugged. So always do it the same way. That should be enough to get you started. John S. THX a lot. Plugged the card in a while ago to see that it is recognised and the module is there. card 0: TXRX [MXC SPDIF TX/RX], device 0: MXC_SPDIF [MXC_SPDIF] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 1: default [USB Audio DAC ], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 2: fab4 [fab4], device 0: fab4-ak4420 [] Subdevices: 0/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 Somehow the Wolfson is thrown out on aplay -l and shown in /proc/asound/cards - a bit weired. And the jive_alsa process for default is not coming up (havn't changed the asound.conf yet). I'll check it out later. jive_alsa default sends out 24bit. Perhaps that'll be a problem on my PCM 2707-16bit. Did you figure out if there is a way to assign indexes ( as done on non embedded distros) to the cards? Would be nice to be able to assign the USB card to e.g. card 2 if 24bit would cause any problems. Anyhow. THX a lot for now. I gotta feeling that things get too complicated. Jumping from here to there. BTW: Did you see that the /proc/asound/version shows 1.0.16 and aplay --version is giving you 1.0.18 !?!? Hmmh. Cheers -- soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77927 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
