Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/14/2006 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:03:37 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Judy Taylor I don't believe you understand His nature at all Lance; also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he be God walking around on earth - why not allow him to be as the scripture reveals. cd: Judy - see scripture revealing more of Christ also. Lance and Baxter's "dancing around" theory has some very good points/teachings if one looks past the undertones of Augustness - which Calvin popularized to the protestant world (notice Blaine and Dave I said protestant world which Armenians - I my opinion-aren't a part of as the doctrines are separate/differant.). Thanks for this Dean but I don't see the relevance of this "so called" divine procession and I can't see an "eternal" son in scripture. He did not have two births and was not a creation of the Father at the beginning. *cd: Do you think that it is possible that God saw man as needing a redeemer from the 'beginning'-If one can apply this term to God who has no beginning or end-so I will describe it as the beginning of creation of this world-Yet this also doesn't apply as it would define a time of Christ's beginning and he was more than a created being.I cannot place God as changing to any degree so I will simply make this statement: Christ was God at the beginning of things and Himself,was God in the flesh,was God who died on the tree (usage of tree-instead of cross is to keep relationship to first covenant prophecies/promices),and He is the Almighty then and now-Yet humbled himself to the Great Spirit while in the lesser form to complete His plan of salvation. Again it is hard to define the infinite from a finite prespective.The point is He was far more than a man. The point I am hoping to make is that Christ was more than a man while on earth. If a king took off his royal clothing and put on rags and emptied himself of most of his wealth and went out into the cold so as to experience what the common man experienced he would still be a King only one in rags. This king would know he was still a king-as Christ identified himself as such - He knew that He was more than a man and considered himself equal with God-His covering didn't make up his identity- rather who He was made that identity foremost. He remember a Glory that was shared with the Fathers before the world began - How can any man hold a memory of that magnitude and still be just a man? Well to everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven. When he was born in that manger in Bethlehem it was in human form - a little lower than the angels, even though we do have the prophetic voices telling us that he would be so much more. He is now our Prophet, Priest, and King. *cd: How does Christ describing himself to be more than a Priest,Prophet ,and King even as the Lord Almighty in Rev.1:8 comply with your statement? Job asked God for a Mediator as a go between God and man - God honored that request and sent down a Mediator who could experience both sides of the issue. I believe Job was speaking prophetically see (Job 19:25) where he says "I know that my redeemer lives and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" *cd: So his redeemer is living(Present tense to Job's time) and He will stand (maintain his strength) even until the latter day-which He will show to all. Is this how you see this also Judy?
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong in my 'understanding' of > you, DM but, I believe that you've just answered > with a resounding NO! You may stand corrected. That is not how I answered. David Miller. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Correct me if I'm wrong in my 'understanding' of you, DM but, I believe that you've just answered with a resounding NO! Who was it recently who described me as 'blowing smoke'? I can't say that I blame you for being evasive on this matter, David. (No, BTW, it'd not require a BOOK). Should you actually 'come out of the biblical/theological closet' on this one, you'd then be on record. Should you be on record as espousing something akin to heresy, it'd not look good on TT, in 'your' congregation or, to your family. However, in 'slip slidin' away', DM you ought to disqualify yourself from the constant sniping when others speak on the matter. Do you not agree? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: January 15, 2006 08:18 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > Lance, you may not believe me, but I think Bill and I believe in the same > Jesus. I'm not sure what to talk about. What's the point? Write a > thesis > about Jesus? That's a book, man. Where would I find the time to do that? > > David Miller > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:35 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > > Thanks at least for being true to who you are. How? By answering a > question > with another question. Do you play poker, DM? You might make a good card > counter.(i.e.'Rain Man) > > You approach things analytically David. Rather than circumscribe your > response, why not outline your position by contrasting it with Bill > Taylor's > position? Bill, IMO, has a genuine capacity to speak for himself. I'd be > genuinely appreciative should you take the time to pull together the > central > concerns relating to Jesus that have come up over the last couple of > years. > I have every confidence that you know exactly what those are. I genuinely > believe that every participant on TT would benefit from this. > > please, > > Lance > > > > > - Original Message - > From: David Miller > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: January 15, 2006 07:19 > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > > This is a rather broad question, Lance. I'm not sure where to begin. It > sounds like you want me to write a book for you. Can you narrow your > question a little? > > David Miller > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > > DM: > > We are all helped on hearing that which you do not believe, David. We are > not helped insofar as knowing that which you do believe on this most > important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill, John, Judy, Gary, > Lance > etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do so well, namely, write > a > definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on just who Jesus was/is and > lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came onto TT as a result of > a > then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of Christ. Shall we come > full circle and, once again, be treated to your position on this? > > - Original Message - > From: David Miller > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47 > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > > Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet > again > that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he is > talking > about is a figment of his imagination. > > David Miller > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > > the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God > > this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to > the > bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine > > God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Correct me if I'm wrong in my 'understanding' of you, DM but, I believe that you've just answered with a resounding NO! Who was it recently who described me as 'blowing smoke'? I can't say that I blame you for being evasive on this matter, David. (No, BTW, it'd not require a BOOK). Should you actually 'come out of the biblical/theological closet' on this one, you'd then be on record. Should you be on record as espousing something akin to heresy, it'd not look good on TT, in 'your' congregation or, to your family. However, in 'slip slidin' away', DM you ought to disqualify yourself from the constant sniping when others speak on the matter. Do you not agree? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: January 15, 2006 08:18 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance, you may not believe me, but I think Bill and I believe in the same Jesus. I'm not sure what to talk about. What's the point? Write a thesis about Jesus? That's a book, man. Where would I find the time to do that? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Thanks at least for being true to who you are. How? By answering a question with another question. Do you play poker, DM? You might make a good card counter.(i.e.'Rain Man) You approach things analytically David. Rather than circumscribe your response, why not outline your position by contrasting it with Bill Taylor's position? Bill, IMO, has a genuine capacity to speak for himself. I'd be genuinely appreciative should you take the time to pull together the central concerns relating to Jesus that have come up over the last couple of years. I have every confidence that you know exactly what those are. I genuinely believe that every participant on TT would benefit from this. please, Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 15, 2006 07:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) This is a rather broad question, Lance. I'm not sure where to begin. It sounds like you want me to write a book for you. Can you narrow your question a little? David Miller ----- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) DM: We are all helped on hearing that which you do not believe, David. We are not helped insofar as knowing that which you do believe on this most important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill, John, Judy, Gary, Lance etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do so well, namely, write a definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on just who Jesus was/is and lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came onto TT as a result of a then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of Christ. Shall we come full circle and, once again, be treated to your position on this? - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he is talking about is a figment of his imagination. David Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Oh, it is Biblical, Gary. Philippians 2:5-9 || - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, you may not believe me, but I think Bill and I believe in the same Jesus. I'm not sure what to talk about. What's the point? Write a thesis about Jesus? That's a book, man. Where would I find the time to do that? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Thanks at least for being true to who you are. How? By answering a question with another question. Do you play poker, DM? You might make a good card counter.(i.e.'Rain Man) You approach things analytically David. Rather than circumscribe your response, why not outline your position by contrasting it with Bill Taylor's position? Bill, IMO, has a genuine capacity to speak for himself. I'd be genuinely appreciative should you take the time to pull together the central concerns relating to Jesus that have come up over the last couple of years. I have every confidence that you know exactly what those are. I genuinely believe that every participant on TT would benefit from this. please, Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 15, 2006 07:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) This is a rather broad question, Lance. I'm not sure where to begin. It sounds like you want me to write a book for you. Can you narrow your question a little? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) DM: We are all helped on hearing that which you do not believe, David. We are not helped insofar as knowing that which you do believe on this most important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill, John, Judy, Gary, Lance etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do so well, namely, write a definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on just who Jesus was/is and lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came onto TT as a result of a then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of Christ. Shall we come full circle and, once again, be treated to your position on this? - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he is talking about is a figment of his imagination. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Oh, it is Biblical, Gary. > > Philippians 2:5-9 || > > - Original Message ----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) > > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical) > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> || -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Thanks at least for being true to who you are. How?
By answering a question with another question. Do you play poker, DM? You might
make a good card counter.(i.e.'Rain Man)
You approach things analytically David. Rather
than circumscribe your response, why not outline your position by contrasting it
with Bill Taylor's position? Bill, IMO, has a genuine capacity to speak for
himself. I'd be genuinely appreciative should you take the time to pull together
the central concerns relating to Jesus that have come up over the last couple of
years. I have every confidence that you know exactly what those are. I genuinely
believe that every participant on TT would benefit from this.
please,
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 15, 2006 07:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
This is a rather broad question, Lance. I'm not sure where to
begin. It sounds like you want me to write a book for you. Can you
narrow your question a little?
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:59
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
DM:
We are all helped on hearing that which you do
not believe, David. We are not helped insofar as knowing that which you do
believe on this most important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill,
John, Judy, Gary, Lance etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do
so well, namely, write a definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on
just who Jesus was/is and lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came
onto TT as a result of a then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of
Christ. Shall we come full circle and, once again, be treated to your
position on this?
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify
yet again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The
mindset he is talking about is a figment of his imagination.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006
10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
the mindset
in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God
this point
is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it
to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that
JC himself ain't the divine
God's
divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory
like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast
to one's (idea of) authority & power
"As great
as you are a man, you'll never be greater than
yourself."
--fat nancy, 2001
::
As great as
you are..[God], you'll never be greater than
yourself.
--g
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians
2:5-9||
> > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw:
[TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed,
evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a
very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or
biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David
Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that
he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the
Father.>>
||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I never said that we didn't agree. I'm just trying to help bring out partly what you just did. That word "equality" is a loaded word and often misappropriated. Your context and subject is important when you use the word. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Huh ??? I really hate to bring up a "big word " or three, but there really is such things as "economic trinity" and "immanent trinity." Function and essence. I speak of essence and you quote passages that have to do with function. It appears that we do not disagree -- because we are not even talking about the same things. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > JD wrote: > > What the verse does not accomplish is this: > > it does not establish an event in which the > > incarnate was not an equal partner. > > 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 > (27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all > things > are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all > things under him. > (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son > also > himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be > all in all. > > John 14:28 > (28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto > you. > If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: > for > my Father is greater than I. > > David Miller > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
This is a rather broad question, Lance. I'm not sure where to
begin. It sounds like you want me to write a book for you. Can you
narrow your question a little?
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:59
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
DM:
We are all helped on hearing that which you do
not believe, David. We are not helped insofar as knowing that which you do
believe on this most important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill,
John, Judy, Gary, Lance etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do so
well, namely, write a definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on just
who Jesus was/is and lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came onto
TT as a result of a then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of Christ.
Shall we come full circle and, once again, be treated to your position on
this?
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet
again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he
is talking about is a figment of his imagination.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006
10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
the mindset
in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God
this point is
at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to
the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself
ain't the divine
God's
divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory
like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast
to one's (idea of) authority & power
"As great as
you are a man, you'll never be greater than
yourself."
--fat nancy, 2001
::
As great as
you are..[God], you'll never be greater than
yourself.
--g
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians
2:5-9||
> > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw:
[TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed,
evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a
very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or
biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David
Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he
had laid aside > the glory that he had with the
Father.>>
||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Huh ??? I really hate to bring up a "big word " or three, but there really is such things as "economic trinity" and "immanent trinity." Function and essence. I speak of essence and you quote passages that have to do with function. It appears that we do not disagree -- because we are not even talking about the same things. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > JD wrote: > > What the verse does not accomplish is this: > > it does not establish an event in which the > > incarnate was not an equal partner. > > 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 > (27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things > are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all > things under him. > (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also > himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be > all in all. > > John 14:28 > (28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. > If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for > my Father is greater than I. > > David Miller > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
In fact, you have said these very words. But no matter. What do you believe? Is Jesus the representative of God or God in the flesh? Which is it. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you THOUGHT Judy said. What does Emmanuel mean?? On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think I know where you are going with this, David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his position; it was not a change in nature. Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in any way, after his crucifixion? Does the following _expression_ by Peter also puzzle you? Acts 2:36(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
DM:
We are all helped on hearing that which you do not
believe, David. We are not helped insofar as knowing that which you do believe
on this most important of discussions. You ask questions of Bill, John, Judy,
Gary, Lance etc. All well and good, DM. Why not do what you do so well, namely,
write a definitive statement relfecting DM's teaching on just who Jesus was/is
and lace it with Scripture? I believe Bill Taylor came onto TT as a result of a
then ongoing discussion concerning the humanity of Christ. Shall we come full
circle and, once again, be treated to your position on this?
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 13:47
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet
again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he
is talking about is a figment of his imagination.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:18
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
the mindset in
which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God
this point is
at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the
bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't
the divine
God's divinity
is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's
humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of)
authority & power
"As great as
you are a man, you'll never be greater than
yourself."
--fat nancy, 2001
::
As great as you
are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself.
--g
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:>
Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9||
> > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence
suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one;
that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On
Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he
had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>>
||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lest anyone be deceived further by Gary's comments, let me clarify yet again that I do not believe that "JC ceased to be God." The mindset he is talking about is a figment of his imagination. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9|| > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Fat nancy 2001 obviously was not born of the Spirit and was most definitely not privy to Hebrews 6:4,5 Are you Gary? On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:18:18 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9|| > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:03:37 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
From: Judy Taylor
I
don't believe you understand His nature at all Lance; also I fail to see why
it is so important to you that he be
God walking around on earth - why not allow
him to be as the scripture reveals.
cd: Judy - see scripture revealing more of Christ
also.
Lance and Baxter's "dancing around" theory has some very good
points/teachings if one looks past the undertones of Augustness - which
Calvin popularized to the protestant world (notice Blaine and Dave I said
protestant world which Armenians - I my opinion-aren't a part of as the
doctrines are separate/differant.).
Thanks for this Dean but I don't see the
relevance of this "so called" divine procession and I can't see an
"eternal"
son in scripture. He did not have two
births and was not a creation of the Father at the
beginning.
The point I am hoping to make is that Christ was more than
a man while on earth. If a king took off his royal clothing and put on rags
and emptied himself of most of his wealth and went out into the cold so as
to experience what the common man experienced he would still be a King only
one in rags. This king would know he was still a king-as Christ identified
himself as such - He knew that He was more than a man and considered himself
equal with God-His covering didn't make up his identity- rather who He was
made that identity foremost. He remember a Glory that was shared with
the Fathers before the world began - How can any man hold a memory of that
magnitude and still be just a man?
Well to everything there is a season and a
time for every purpose under heaven. When he was born in that
manger
in Bethlehem it was in human form - a
little lower than the angels, even though we do have the prophetic
voices
telling us that he would be so much
more. He is now our Prophet, Priest, and King.
Job asked God for a Mediator as a go between God and man - God
honored that request and sent down a Mediator who could experience both
sides of the issue.
I believe Job was speaking prophetically
see (Job 19:25) where he says "I know that my redeemer lives and that he
shall stand at the latter day upon the earth"
Christ by walking in the form of man with the temptations of a
man - due to the flesh- Yet was also able to relate with God's side of the
issue in his divinness. Hope this helps and know that this is my
understanding-if anything can be added to help my understanding please do
so-Thank you.
It is after his death (as a
man)
burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted
Him and gave Him a Name above every Name so that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every
tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of
God the Father.
cd: I see God as honoring Christ for the work on the cross-but
knees bowed to him here while on earth also-The soldiers fell backwards to
their knees in the garden when Christ said "I am" and many others bowed
before Him which was allowed as He was God in the flesh.Remenber He
identified himself as the great "I am". This is identifying himself as
God.Yes he was made in the flesh a little lower than the Angles but still
commanded those same angles as He could have called 12 legions to His
defense-in the wilderness of temptation these Angels came and
served/ministered to him in the form of servants. No Angel ever allowed a
man to bow before them-Yet Christ allowed this to be so.He was therefore
greater than the Angels and hence much more than the common
man.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:11:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I think I know where you are going with this,
David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his
death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates
Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at
least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on
that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do
with his position; it was not a change in nature.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus
exalted in any way, after hi
Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: January 14, 2006 10:58 Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Right! There are no degrees of Godhood. D From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:39 AMTo: Debbie SawczakSubject: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 14, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) When I respond to a post with an "amen" or "An excellent post," it is because I not only agree but because I actually learned something. Amen and an excellent post !! jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9|| > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> || --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/229 - Release Date: 1/13/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/229 - Release Date: 1/13/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
When I respond to a post with an "amen" or "An excellent post," it is because I not only agree but because I actually learned something. Amen and an excellent post !! jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9|| > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
the mindset in which you dwell is that JC ceased to be God this point is at root level, Bro: e.g., Phil 2 is biblical, take it to the bank--the NT never touches your mind/set, that JC himself ain't the divine God's divinity is essential in essence greater than God's glory like one's humanity is essential/ly true, in contrast to one's (idea of) authority & power "As great as you are a man, you'll never be greater than yourself." --fat nancy, 2001 :: As great as you are..[God], you'll never be greater than yourself. --g On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:56:17 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.> > Philippians 2:5-9|| > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)> > myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not > a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside > the glory that he had with the Father.>> ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/13/2006 2:21:04 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I don't believe you understand His nature at all Lance; also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he be God walking around on earth - why not allow him to be as the scripture reveals. cd: Judy-see scripture revealing more of Christ also.Lance and Baxter's "dancing around" theory has some very good points/teachings if one looks past the undertones of Augustness-which Calvin popularized to the protestant world (notice Blaine and Dave I said protestant world which Armenians- I my opinion-aren't a part of as the doctrines are separate/differant.). The point I am hoping to make is that Christ was more than a man while on earth. If a king took off his royal clothing and put on rags and emptied himself of most of his wealth and went out into the cold so as to experience what the common man experienced he would still be a King only one in rags. This king would know he was still a king-as Christ identified himself as such-He knew that He was more than a man and considered himself equal with God-His covering didn't make up his identity- rather who He was made that identity foremost.He remember a Glory that was shared with the Fathers before the world began-How can any man hold a memory of that magnitude and still be just a man?Job asked God for a Mediator as a go between God and man -God honored that request and sent down a Mediator who could experience both sides of the issue. Christ by walking in the form of man with the temptations of a man -due to the flesh-Yet was also able to relate with God's side of the issue in his divinness.Hope this helps and know that this is my understanding-if anything can be added to help my understanding please do so-Thank you. It is after his death (as a man) burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted Him and gave Him a Name above every Name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. cd: I see God as honoring Christ for the work on the cross-but knees bowed to him here while on earth also-The soldiers fell backwards to their knees in the garden when Christ said "I am" and many others bowed before Him which was allowed as He was God in the flesh.Remenber He identified himself as the great "I am". This is identifying himself as God.Yes he was made in the flesh a little lower than the Angles but still commanded those same angles as He could have called 12 legions to His defense-in the wilderness of temptation these Angels came and served/ministered to him in the form of servants. No Angel ever allowed a man to bow before them-Yet Christ allowed this to be so.He was therefore greater than the Angels and hence much more than the common man. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:11:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I think I know where you are going with this, David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his position; it was not a change in nature. Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in any way, after his crucifixion? Does the following _expression_ by Peter also puzzle you? Acts 2:36(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you kno
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Oh, it is Biblical, Gary. Philippians 2:5-9 (5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: John 17:4-5 (4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. (5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Hebrews 2:9-18 (9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. (11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, (12) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. (13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. (14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. (16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (17) Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (18) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: <<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside the glory that he had with the Father.>> -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
myth (indeed, evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not a very good one; that there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:<<[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside the glory that he had with the Father.>>
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
JD wrote: > What the verse does not accomplish is this: > it does not establish an event in which the > incarnate was not an equal partner. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. John 14:28 (28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance wrote: > ... you will say that this somehow corroborates > Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while > he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she > has implied). I don't read her the same way that you do Lance. Lance wrote: > Do you agree with her on that, then? > Yes/No. Jesus was who he was. God in the flesh. However, he had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid aside the glory that he had with the Father. There were many characteristics of being God that no longer applied to him as a result. For example, he could now be tempted to sin. He could now experience darkness and suffering. He could experience death. Lance wrote: > As for his exaltation, my answer is that > it had to do with his position; it was not > a change in nature. Fair enough, if you mean what I think you mean. If you mean that it had only to do with position and not glory, then you are dead wrong. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
..for him On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:46:01 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..that you yourself uniquely possess & correctly manage the God-thoughts of God On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:37:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: that JC was God's rep to you--there ain't no way you mean that 'God is with us' On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you THOUGHT Judy said. What does Emmanuel mean?? On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth. jd 'what about Jesus made Him divine'
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
which translates in context, also dualistically, to: He is [not] God the Word from eternity On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:26:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:32:04 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: .. your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. || He is God the Word from eternity ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
..that you yourself uniquely possess & correctly manage the God-thoughts of God On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:37:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: that JC was God's rep to you--there ain't no way you mean that 'God is with us' On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you THOUGHT Judy said. What does Emmanuel mean?? On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth. jd 'what about Jesus made Him divine'
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:32:04 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: .. your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. || He is God the Word from eternity ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
that JC was God's rep to you--there ain't no way you mean that 'God is with us' On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you THOUGHT Judy said. What does Emmanuel mean?? On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth. jd 'what about Jesus made Him divine'
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you
THOUGHT Judy said.
What does Emmanuel mean??
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a
representative of God while here on earth.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think I know where you are going with this,
David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his
death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates
Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least,
I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then?
Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his
position; it was not a change in nature.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus
exalted in any way, after his crucifixion?
Does the following _expression_ by Peter
also puzzle you?
Acts 2:36(36)
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made
that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and
Christ.
David
Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006
12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what
about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom
a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God.
He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from
eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A
human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't
Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his
Superman garb.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006
10:49
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made him
divine?
Since you say you know what it was not - can
you now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if
it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought to
myself also when I read Judy's post about
that.
D
cd: Lance and
Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit
"without measure" have on you statement?
Albert Barns wrote:
Joh 3:34 -
Whom God hath sent - The Messiah.
Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of
God.
For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God.
Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God
anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his
Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great
work.
By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully,
completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions
to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually
filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not
as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean
(Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
cd: Judy I believe you have me wrong-I think the Holy Ghost played a major role in the Divines of Christ-But also believe he is divine as simply Christ (respectfully).Nor do I think that the Holy Spirit can be removed from Christ any more than God can be removed from Christ-inseparable. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/13/2006 10:51:27 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Yes -- it is rather surprising that there are those who actually think that God can cease to be God, or become God when He was not !! jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
He is Lord of all and the Christ of the Jews. It is in Him that the mystery of the gospel is revealed. It is in Him that the reconcilation of the Jew and the Gentile , male and female, takes place. What the verse does not accomplish is this: it does not establish an event in which the incarnate was not an equal partner. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in any way, after his crucifixion? Does the following _expression_ by Peter also puzzle you? Acts 2:36(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Does anyone actually have a definition for "deity?" Is Christ, now, truly God in the same sense as the Father and was He truly God before coming to this earth (read" incarnation)? If so and since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever -- in what sense does He continue to be God while on this earth? jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Depends what you are calling "his diety" If it is the glory he had with the Father since the world began then yes he emptied himself leaving that behind when he took upon himself a body of flesh. The difference between him and other humans indwelt by the Spirit is the measure (ie he was given the Spirit without measure) along with holiness; he loved righteousness and hated evil an ordinary human would never qualify as a perfect sacrifice without blemish. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:05:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his deity when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that case, how was he different from any other human being indwelt by the Spirit? And how could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole human race, let alone the whole cosmos? It is God alone who saves, is it not? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 12:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. He is God the Word from eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead being a son until the day he was begotten (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact that he is also the son of man. His existence from eternity has been The Promise. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. No he layed aside his superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy and separate from sinners... So you believe he walked as God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven Lance? From: Judy Taylor Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think I know where you are going with this, David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his position; it was not a change in nature. Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in any way, after his crucifixion? Does the following _expression_ by Peter also puzzle you? Acts 2:36(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Surely you don't believe that God died do you
Lance?
God didn't sin to begin with - it was the first man
Adam who fell incurring the curse upon mankind
And the second man Adam who paid the price and is the
first born of the New Creation
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:35:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
I'm wanting to know, as this is quite clear, if
DM's position is identical with your own on this?
Once I hear from him I shall get back to
you..
From: Judy Taylor
I don't believe you understand His nature at all
Lance; also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he
be
God walking around on earth - why not allow him to
be as the scripture reveals. It is after his death (as a
man)
burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted
Him and gave Him a Name above every Name so that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every
tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of
God the Father.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:11:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I think I know where you are going with this,
David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his
death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates
Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at
least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on
that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do
with his position; it was not a change in nature.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus
exalted in any way, after his crucifixion?
Does the following _expression_ by Peter
also puzzle you?
Acts 2:36(36)
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made
that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and
Christ.
David
Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006
12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy
'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man
to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making'
him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from
eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS
A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He
ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus
revealing his Superman garb.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006
10:49
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made
him divine?
Since you say you know what it was not -
can you now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine,
if it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought
to myself also when I read Judy's post about
that.
D
cd: Lance and
Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that
spirit "without measure" have on you
statement?
Albert Barns wrote:
Joh 3:34 -
Whom God hath sent - The Messiah.
Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of
God.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:28:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Deity means being God. Do you think that when
Jesus laid aside his glory, he ceased to be God?
No, I am not saying that exactly;
what I am saying is that he didn't come here the same as he was
there
because he took upon himself the
form of a servant and was made a little lower than the angels.
And are you saying that the difference between
Jesus and other human beings, with respect to the
Holy Spirit, is merely quantitative?
Yes, he was given the Spirit
without measure; other born again human beings who are part of
the
New Creation are given a
measure. Another difference I pointed out and you seem to want to
ignore
is holiness of
character.
Third, even if a mere man were completely holy,
unblemished, how could his sacrifice avail for any
more than just one person?
Through the Eternal Spirit (Hebrews
9:14-16)
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:32
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Depends what you are calling "his diety" If
it is the glory he had with the Father since the world began
then yes he emptied himself leaving that behind
when he took upon himself a body of flesh. The difference
between him and other humans indwelt by the Spirit
is the measure (ie he was given the Spirit without measure)
along with holiness; he loved righteousness
and hated evil an ordinary human would never qualify as a
perfect
sacrifice without blemish.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:05:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his
deity when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that
case, how was he different from any other human being indwelt by the
Spirit? And how could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole
human race, let alone the whole cosmos? It is God alone who saves, is it
not?
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 12:32
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy
'what about Jesus made Him divine'.
It is not as if he were a man to
whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him
God.
He is divine because he is God the Son
who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father
and Spirit,
come AS A human being.
He is God the Word from
eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead
being a son until the
day he was begotten (Ps
2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact
that he is also the son of man.
His existence from eternity
has been The Promise.
Your question is like asking what makes
God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe
thus revealing his Superman garb.
No he layed aside his
superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy
and separate from sinners...
So you believe he walked as
God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven
Lance?
From: Judy
Taylor
Dean and
Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made
him divine?
Since you say you know what it was not -
can you now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine,
if it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought
to myself also when I read Judy's post about
that.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I'm wanting to know, as this is quite clear, if
DM's position is identical with your own on this? Once I hear from him I shall
get back to you..
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 14:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
I don't believe you understand His nature at all
Lance; also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he
be
God walking around on earth - why not allow him to be
as the scripture reveals. It is after his death (as a man)
burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted
Him and gave Him a Name above every Name so that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every
tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of
God the Father.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:11:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I think I know where you are going with this,
David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his
death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates
Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least,
I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then?
Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his
position; it was not a change in nature.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus
exalted in any way, after his crucifixion?
Does the following _expression_ by Peter
also puzzle you?
Acts 2:36(36)
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made
that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and
Christ.
David
Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006
12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what
about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom
a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God.
He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from
eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A
human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't
Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his
Superman garb.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006
10:49
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made him
divine?
Since you say you know what it was not - can
you now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if
it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought to
myself also when I read Judy's post about
that.
D
cd: Lance and
Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit
"without measure" have on you statement?
Albert Barns wrote:
Joh 3:34 -
Whom God hath sent - The Messiah.
Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of
God.
For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God.
Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God
anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his
Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great
work.
By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully,
completely. The pro
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Deity means being God. Do you think that when Jesus laid aside his glory, he ceased to be God? And are you saying that the difference between Jesus and other human beings, with respect to the Holy Spirit, is merely quantitative? Third, even if a mere man were completely holy, unblemished, how could his sacrifice avail for any more than just one person? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 13:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Depends what you are calling "his diety" If it is the glory he had with the Father since the world began then yes he emptied himself leaving that behind when he took upon himself a body of flesh. The difference between him and other humans indwelt by the Spirit is the measure (ie he was given the Spirit without measure) along with holiness; he loved righteousness and hated evil an ordinary human would never qualify as a perfect sacrifice without blemish. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:05:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his deity when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that case, how was he different from any other human being indwelt by the Spirit? And how could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole human race, let alone the whole cosmos? It is God alone who saves, is it not? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 12:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. He is God the Word from eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead being a son until the day he was begotten (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact that he is also the son of man. His existence from eternity has been The Promise. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. No he layed aside his superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy and separate from sinners... So you believe he walked as God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven Lance? From: Judy Taylor Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, c
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I don't believe you understand His nature at all Lance;
also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he be
God walking around on earth - why not allow him to be
as the scripture reveals. It is after his death (as a man)
burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted Him
and gave Him a Name above every Name so that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every
tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of
God the Father.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:11:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
I think I know where you are going with this,
David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his death
and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view
that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this
is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then? Yes/No. As for
his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his position; it was not a
change in nature.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted
in any way, after his crucifixion?
Does the following _expression_ by Peter
also puzzle you?
Acts 2:36(36)
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made
that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
David
Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what
about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom
a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He
is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of
one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your
question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who
needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman
garb.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ
- incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made him
divine?
Since you say you know what it was not - can
you now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it
were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought to
myself also when I read Judy's post about
that.
D
cd: Lance and
Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit
"without measure" have on you statement?
Albert Barns wrote:
Joh 3:34 -
Whom God hath sent - The Messiah.
Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of
God.
For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though
Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed
him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to
be completely qualified for his great work.
By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully,
completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions
to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled
with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a
vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean
(Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I think I know where you are going with this, David. I will of course agree that Jesus was exalted after his death and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she has implied). Do you agree with her on that, then? Yes/No. As for his exaltation, my answer is that it had to do with his position; it was not a change in nature. Lance - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 13:19 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in any way, after his crucifixion? Does the following _expression_ by Peter also puzzle you? Acts 2:36(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Depends what you are calling "his diety" If it is the glory he had with the Father since the world began then yes he emptied himself leaving that behind when he took upon himself a body of flesh. The difference between him and other humans indwelt by the Spirit is the measure (ie he was given the Spirit without measure) along with holiness; he loved righteousness and hated evil an ordinary human would never qualify as a perfect sacrifice without blemish. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:05:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his deity when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that case, how was he different from any other human being indwelt by the Spirit? And how could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole human race, let alone the whole cosmos? It is God alone who saves, is it not? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 12:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. He is God the Word from eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead being a son until the day he was begotten (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact that he is also the son of man. His existence from eternity has been The Promise. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. No he layed aside his superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy and separate from sinners... So you believe he walked as God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven Lance? From: Judy Taylor Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance, in your theology, was Jesus exalted in
any way, after his crucifixion?
Does the following _expression_ by Peter also
puzzle you?
Acts 2:36(36) Therefore
let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:09
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about
Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom
a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is
divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of
one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your
question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who
needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman
garb.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made him
divine?
Since you say you know what it was not - can you
now tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it
were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought to
myself also when I read Judy's post about that.
D
cd: Lance and
Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit
"without measure" have on you statement?
Albert Barns wrote:
Joh 3:34 -
Whom God hath sent - The Messiah.
Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of
God.
For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though
Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or
endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be
completely qualified for his great work.
By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely.
The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver
special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit
of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a
fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his deity when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that case, how was he different from any other human being indwelt by the Spirit? And how could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole human race, let alone the whole cosmos? It is God alone who saves, is it not? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 12:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. He is God the Word from eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead being a son until the day he was begotten (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact that he is also the son of man. His existence from eternity has been The Promise. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. No he layed aside his superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy and separate from sinners... So you believe he walked as God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven Lance? From: Judy Taylor Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. He is God the Word from eternity; there is no mention of the second member of the Godhead being a son until the day he was begotten (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5; 3:5, 6; 2 Pet 1:17, 18). Then there is the fact that he is also the son of man. His existence from eternity has been The Promise. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. No he layed aside his superman garb and emptied himself as per Phil 2 ATST he was holy and separate from sinners... So you believe he walked as God and was as much God on earth as he was in heaven Lance? From: Judy Taylor Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as if he were a man to whom a special endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity, of one nature with the Father and Spirit, come AS A human being. Your question is like asking what makes God God. He ain't Clark Kent, Judy who needs only to remove his robe thus revealing his Superman garb. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 10:49 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Dean and Lance, What exactly was it about jesus that made him divine? Since you say you know what it was not - can you now tell me what it is? judyt On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D cd: Lance and Debbie- what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? Albert Barns wrote: Joh 3:34 - Whom God hath sent - The Messiah. Speaketh the words of God - The truth, or commands of God. For God giveth not the Spirit - The Spirit of God. Though Jesus was God as well as man, yet, as Mediator, God anointed him, or endowed him with the influences of his Spirit, so as to be completely qualified for his great work. By measure - Not in a small degree, but fully, completely. The prophets were inspired on particular occasions to deliver special messages. The Messiah was continually filled with the Spirit of God. "The Spirit dwelt in him, not as a vessel, but as in a fountain, as in a bottomless ocean (Henry).
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
I've asked Lance what IHO made Jesus divine - a question which has yet to be answered. He did his customary thing which is getting off on some personal issue which results in "put down" and the important questions are ignored. Criticism by itself is destructive. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:28:11 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: Lance what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: January 12, 2006 22:59 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
cd: Lance what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/13/2006 6:21:25 AM Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: January 12, 2006 22:59 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
'Wound pretty tight'?? Whatever 'illumination' you and DM lay claim to, little of it ever makes an appearance on TT! However, in fairness to both of you, when I read anything concerning you in relation to your respective families, I'm invariably moved by the genuineness of both of you. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 07:29 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Could be some "folderol" as you call it would do her some good; sounds like she is wound pretty tight. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:01:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Mrs. Muir is principal of a school of some 600+ students. She teaches a course on leadership at a local seminary. She is on the board of said seminary. She is elder at a church. She works an average of 12 hrs a day, often leaving home before 6 only to return at 9. I couldn't begin to hold a candle to her in almost any area. God blessed me with Beverley Anne. She would not, JT, make time for this folderol. From: Judy Taylor So Lance - And I'm curious as to why you are always quoting Debbie Sawczak, doesn't Mrs. Muir have anything interesting to contribute? What exact quality do you and "D" believe made the man Jesus divine? On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Could be some "folderol" as you call it would do her some good; sounds like she is wound pretty tight. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:01:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Mrs. Muir is principal of a school of some 600+ students. She teaches a course on leadership at a local seminary. She is on the board of said seminary. She is elder at a church. She works an average of 12 hrs a day, often leaving home before 6 only to return at 9. I couldn't begin to hold a candle to her in almost any area. God blessed me with Beverley Anne. She would not, JT, make time for this folderol. From: Judy Taylor So Lance - And I'm curious as to why you are always quoting Debbie Sawczak, doesn't Mrs. Muir have anything interesting to contribute? What exact quality do you and "D" believe made the man Jesus divine? On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Mrs. Muir is principal of a school of some 600+ students. She teaches a course on leadership at a local seminary. She is on the board of said seminary. She is elder at a church. She works an average of 12 hrs a day, often leaving home before 6 only to return at 9. I couldn't begin to hold a candle to her in almost any area. God blessed me with Beverley Anne. She would not, JT, make time for this folderol. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 13, 2006 06:32 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) So Lance - And I'm curious as to why you are always quoting Debbie Sawczak, doesn't Mrs. Muir have anything interesting to contribute? What exact quality do you and "D" believe made the man Jesus divine? On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
So Lance - And I'm curious as to why you are always quoting Debbie Sawczak, doesn't Mrs. Muir have anything interesting to contribute? What exact quality do you and "D" believe made the man Jesus divine? On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: January 12, 2006 22:59 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) It was not the Holy Spirit "in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine. Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Bill wrote: > Judy has been quite elusive and, when not, > contradictory. I've asked her a very specific > question. We'll see if she addresses it or takes > the winding road yet again. May I suggest that if she does not answer the question, that you consider leading her into your own reflections about how to answer the question. I think you and some others here treat Judy like a professor on the wrong side of the tracks who needs to be caught in her words so that you have some way of showing her to be in error. Judy is wise enough to smell a setup, and she has perhaps not considered your question from the historical and scholarly approach that you and I have. There is nothing wrong with someone not answering a question. You may be tempted to say that she should admit that she does not know the answer to your question, but given that she has been promised by the Scriptures to be led into all truth by the Spirit of God, that would not be an appropriate response for her. The truth is either already within her, or it is coming to her as we speak. Perhaps even the Lord might use you to bring the articulation of the proper answer. So, rather than being upset that she has not answered her question, lead her into your own considerations of the proper answer. You can do it slowly, a piece at a time if you like. You and I both know that the answer to this question goes towards a balanced understanding of Christ's humanity and Divinity, and the answer hits directly upon a proper understanding of the Incarnation. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
He genuinely misses he participation in the 'group'
as he respected it.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 09, 2006 06:38
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
Why would I ask DM? He isn't the one running
everything by her for some exalted opinion
you are.
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:34:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Ask DM as you appear to respect HIS
opinion.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 09, 2006 06:27
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
So what qualifies her? Why are you so sure she
knows the Truth?
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:14:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Expert witness.
From: Judy
Taylor
Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie
Sawczak is so interested in what I am saying and doing then
why
doesn't she join the list and put in her two
cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when
she
has you to do it for her - but you seeking
out her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking
about things that she obviously can not
relate to and has no understanding about though she obviously
believes
her opinion to be
valuable.
Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your
expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you
post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they
are totally one sided.
What is one to say? "Oh that's
nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to
TT? I'm
certainly not requesting her
counsel.
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
From: Debbie Sawczak
You see? She sometimes does believe in
the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with
somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used,
instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and
then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own
belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue"
(misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her
insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a
complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own
time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often
said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly
worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in
such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to
leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes
about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor
teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.
D
I don't
deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or
the Father is God JD
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Why would I ask DM? He isn't the one running
everything by her for some exalted opinion
you are.
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:34:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Ask DM as you appear to respect HIS
opinion.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 09, 2006 06:27
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ -
incarnate God (Judy)
So what qualifies her? Why are you so sure she
knows the Truth?
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:14:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Expert witness.
From: Judy
Taylor
Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie Sawczak
is so interested in what I am saying and doing then why
doesn't she join the list and put in her two
cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when
she
has you to do it for her - but you seeking out
her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking
about things that she obviously can not relate
to and has no understanding about though she obviously
believes
her opinion to be
valuable.
Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your
expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you
post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they
are totally one sided.
What is one to say? "Oh that's
nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to
TT? I'm
certainly not requesting her
counsel.
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
From: Debbie Sawczak
You see? She sometimes does believe in
the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with
somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used,
instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then
finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief.
That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer
if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but
her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of
time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also
that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when
she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and
admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at
all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered
till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper
God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but
is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.
D
I don't
deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or
the Father is God JD
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Ask DM as you appear to respect HIS opinion. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 09, 2006 06:27 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) So what qualifies her? Why are you so sure she knows the Truth? On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:14:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Expert witness. From: Judy Taylor Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie Sawczak is so interested in what I am saying and doing then why doesn't she join the list and put in her two cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when she has you to do it for her - but you seeking out her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking about things that she obviously can not relate to and has no understanding about though she obviously believes her opinion to be valuable. Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they are totally one sided. What is one to say? "Oh that's nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to TT? I'm certainly not requesting her counsel. On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
So what qualifies her? Why are you so sure she knows the Truth? On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:14:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Expert witness. From: Judy Taylor Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie Sawczak is so interested in what I am saying and doing then why doesn't she join the list and put in her two cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when she has you to do it for her - but you seeking out her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking about things that she obviously can not relate to and has no understanding about though she obviously believes her opinion to be valuable. Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they are totally one sided. What is one to say? "Oh that's nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to TT? I'm certainly not requesting her counsel. On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Gravity. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 08, 2006 18:33 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Christine - What a blessing you are, a breath of fresh air The apple doesn't fall far from the tree On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Expert witness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 08, 2006 16:41 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie Sawczak is so interested in what I am saying and doing then why doesn't she join the list and put in her two cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when she has you to do it for her - but you seeking out her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking about things that she obviously can not relate to and has no understanding about though she obviously believes her opinion to be valuable. Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they are totally one sided. What is one to say? "Oh that's nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to TT? I'm certainly not requesting her counsel. On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Good it was of some use. jd -- Original message -- From: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hope all goes well with your schooling, Christine. Till next time, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Hello Bill,Thank you for the invitation, but I am not posting regularly on TT because of my school work. I am enjoying this subject, though. Jesus' role in the Godhead is an important topic, and I am hungry to learn more. (JD: I really enjoyed the list of Biblical references you posted a little while ago, and I have saved them for future reference.) -ChristineTaylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her position -- or so it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Hey Judy, I'm thinking that you've overlooked this one. Will you please answer my questions: I promise to be kinder and gentler in my responses :>) Pretty please? If that answer does not satisfy you Bill then it was not a "simple" question. Fair enough, then [please] answer a tough question: When did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit, and was he the divine Christ before that time? I believe He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords Head of the Church which is His body Our Prophet, Priest, and King who sits at the RH of the Father in Heaven. Are you now saying that Christ was never God? Do you now deny His deity altogether? It was God in Christ -- that makes Him deity, in this case. Yes God the Holy Spirit in Jesus the son of man, making him Christ the Son of God. When did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit, Judy, and was he the divine Christ before that time?
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
[Y]ou guys keep constructing straw men arguments, claiming they are her's, and then when it finally comes out that she doesn't believe what you have been arguing all along that she believes, you think she has changed her perspective. Well, David, I am not one of the "you guys" you mention, as I've been asking questions and weighing her answers in view of things she's stated elsewhere. On the question of the nature of Christ and his status in the "Godhead," Judy has been quite elusive and, when not, contradictory. I've asked her a very specific question. We'll see if she addresses it or takes the winding road yet again. By the way, you're right about the kinder, gentler approach. Though she writes as one who knows all truth, she is ignorant of most of this and needs to be taught and brought along with patience. I'll try to be better. Anyway, till next time, Bill -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Bill wrote: > ... the rest of us have been reading her for a long > time and every time we think we understand > something, she abruptly changes her position -- > or so it seems. I had to chuckle a little on this statement. Some are critical that Judy never seems to change from her position, and here you say that she keeps changing her position. For what it's worth, I have been reading Judy for a long time too, and I have not seen her change her perspective too much. That does not mean that she is not learning, but rather that she has some formed opinions and has the integrity not to be swayed about with every wind of doctrine that comes along. From my perspective, you guys keep constructing straw men arguments, claiming they are her's, and then when it finally comes out that she doesn't believe what you have been arguing all along that she believes, you think she has changed her perspective. It is not Judy that has changed, but your categorization of her that has changed. I cannot help but think of the Scripture, "he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Concerning the Godhead, it seems clear to me that she accepts the Trinity concept, but does not like using the word "Trinity" because, a) it is not a Biblical word, b) it has different meanings to different people, c) if she is going to have a good understanding of the term, she will have to study outside the Bible, d) why spend the time studying outside the Bible when everything she needs to know about the Godhead is in the Bible... I hope you get the picture. That is my "read" of Judy, but I could be wrong. If I were to classify her Godhead viewpoint, I could say that she is Trinitarian with a very strong bent toward Sebellianism. I have held this view of her theology of the Godhead of years. I wish I could help her undersatnd the role of the humanity of Christ in salvation, and help her understand the Incarnation better, but I fear that some on the forum have created within her such a distaste for the word "Incarnation" that it would be a little difficult to do right now. By the way, the reason for your questions to her are apparent to me because of my historical and theological reading, but I don't think they register the same with her. This is why she tends not to answer at times. The questions appear unrelated and out in left field to her. You treat her as if she were a professor with a heretical bent rather than a faithful servant of the Most High who has not had the formal training that you have had. I think it is possible for you to teach with more gentleness, meekness, and patience towards her. One more comment: ideology is not always meant to be boxed up in a nice little package. Perhaps we should not try so hard to do that with one another. If relationship is more important than ideas, if persons have priority over ideas (as Debbie articulated recently), then work on that a little more and then bring in the other. It seems to me that Dean has been doing that recently. Don't you guys like the "new" Dean? Don't you become more open to hearing him as you find that there is some common ground between you? Peace be with you. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) ... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her position -- or so it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message ----- From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Debbie wrote: She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote: She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded. -Christine Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From:
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
verilysaid, very well hedged On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 16:35:35 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy.. I need to be more like you in that respect. ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Judy, you are a blessing to me. Today in church, the pastor taught from Mat. 7:7. And he said that the nature of the Kingdom of Heaven is to persevere, how the greek of "Knock and it shall be opened" is actually translated "Keep on knocking and it shall be opened." I admire your thick skin and your fighting spirit, Judy. I need to be more like you in that respect. After slander and anger have chased many away from TT, I am glad to lurk and read your posts. -ChristineJudy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Christine - What a blessing you are, a breath of fresh air The apple doesn't fall far from the tree On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JDYahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it! Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Hope all goes well with your schooling, Christine. Till next time, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Hello Bill,Thank you for the invitation, but I am not posting regularly on TT because of my school work. I am enjoying this subject, though. Jesus' role in the Godhead is an important topic, and I am hungry to learn more. (JD: I really enjoyed the list of Biblical references you posted a little while ago, and I have saved them for future reference.) -ChristineTaylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her position -- or so it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Hello Bill,Thank you for the invitation, but I am not posting regularly on TT because of my school work. I am enjoying this subject, though. Jesus' role in the Godhead is an important topic, and I am hungry to learn more. (JD: I really enjoyed the list of Biblical references you posted a little while ago, and I have saved them for future reference.) -Christine Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her position -- or so it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JDYahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her position -- or so it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Christine - What a blessing you are, a breath of fresh air The apple doesn't fall far from the tree On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Debbie wrote: She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote: She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-Christine Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Lance you are doing it again; if Debbie Sawczak is so interested in what I am saying and doing then why doesn't she join the list and put in her two cents? .. Don't answer that, I guess she doesn't need to when she has you to do it for her - but you seeking out her opinion is a complete and utter waste of time. I am speaking about things that she obviously can not relate to and has no understanding about though she obviously believes her opinion to be valuable. Also I have yet to see Debbie Sawczak (your expert witness) involved in dialogue herself. Most of what you post from her are essay kind of things in which she shares her impressions and they are totally one sided. What is one to say? "Oh that's nice?" What is your purpose in sending her opinions about me to TT? I'm certainly not requesting her counsel. On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:01:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere. D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
