RE: Apple Refund?

[Fazil]

My creditcard got the refund money in three business days. Thanks!

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 9:27 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple Refund?

 

Only Apple can answer that question.

 

 

 

 

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

 

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Fazil
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 9:17 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Apple Refund?

 

Hi, Group.

I purchased an app other day which is not supported much by Voiceover. So I 
went to Apple Website and requested for refund. I did not delete that app yet. 
I got the email and was told that my refund was approved but the money was not 
credited back to my creditcard. This email I got four days ago and the money is 
not back yet, is it because I did not delete the app yet?

Thanks!

 

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RE: Apple Refund?

[Richard Turner]

Only Apple can answer that question.




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Fazil
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 9:17 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple Refund?

Hi, Group.
I purchased an app other day which is not supported much by Voiceover. So I 
went to Apple Website and requested for refund. I did not delete that app yet. 
I got the email and was told that my refund was approved but the money was not 
credited back to my creditcard. This email I got four days ago and the money is 
not back yet, is it because I did not delete the app yet?
Thanks!

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Re: Apple Refund?

[Joseph Hudson]

I've done the same thing, and normally their credits are back in movie rentals. 
Not unless they change their policy.

> On Oct 18, 2021, at 11:16 AM, Fazil  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Group.
> I purchased an app other day which is not supported much by Voiceover. So I 
> went to Apple Website and requested for refund. I did not delete that app 
> yet. I got the email and was told that my refund was approved but the money 
> was not credited back to my creditcard. This email I got four days ago and 
> the money is not back yet, is it because I did not delete the app yet?
> Thanks!
>  
> 
> -- 
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>  
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
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Apple Refund?

[Fazil]

Hi, Group.

I purchased an app other day which is not supported much by Voiceover. So I
went to Apple Website and requested for refund. I did not delete that app
yet. I got the email and was told that my refund was approved but the money
was not credited back to my creditcard. This email I got four days ago and
the money is not back yet, is it because I did not delete the app yet?

Thanks!

 

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Re: Gasping panting Alex, YECH! If human readers in any of my subscribed services made all those assumed extra human noises, I would be screaming for a refund!

[doug parisian]

Yes Richard, noticed that after it was sent. Reminds me of being toldmy 
fly was open but I had both hands full at the time.



On 2021-09-07 7:21 p.m., Richard Turner wrote:


Doug,

Your message ended up in the subject field.

I just thought you may want to know that.

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
with it.” – Jane Wagner


My Web site: https://www.turner42.com <https://www.turner42.com>

*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
Of *doug parisian

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:16 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Gasping panting Alex, YECH! If human readers in any of my 
subscribed services made all those assumed extra human noises, I would 
be screaming for a refund!


On 2021-09-07 7:10 p.m., Simon A Fogarty wrote:

Alex I thought was developed by a company called Nuonce which
apple then purchased

And I believe added to

*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
 <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> *On
Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel
*Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2021 5:22 am
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* RE: the Alex voice

Alex was developed by Apple so I highly doubt it will ever be
available on Android.

Then of course I believe Eloquence can be used on Android phones
and that would be awesome although for me personally it certainly
is not enough incentive to switch.

*From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> *On
Behalf Of *hshaneclark
*Sent:* September 7, 2021 6:32 AM
*To:* viphone mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>>
*Subject:* Re: the Alex voice

Hi ,

Just curious, can this particular voice be used with Android? I've
heard it a few times and like it myself, would be nice to have on
my phone if there was a way.

Shane.

On Sep 7, 2021 at 9:09 AM, Devin Prater
mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes, because he sounds the most natural, as well as being the
most responsive. I like him around 55 to 65%.

Devin Prater

r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com <mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>

gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 10:56 PM Casey Wollner
mailto:cwoll...@wi.rr.com>> wrote:

Hi are any of you using the Alex voice on your phone?

And if so what made you select it over all the other
voices that you can use on your iPhone?

Also what is the speed rate you find that he reads the
best where you can understand him?

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RE: Gasping panting Alex, YECH! If human readers in any of my subscribed services made all those assumed extra human noises, I would be screaming for a refund!

[Richard Turner]

Doug,
Your message ended up in the subject field.
I just thought you may want to know that.




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of doug 
parisian
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:16 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Gasping panting Alex, YECH! If human readers in any of my subscribed 
services made all those assumed extra human noises, I would be screaming for a 
refund!



On 2021-09-07 7:10 p.m., Simon A Fogarty wrote:
Alex I thought was developed by a company called Nuonce which apple then 
purchased
And I believe added to


From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2021 5:22 am
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: the Alex voice

Alex was developed by Apple so I highly doubt it will ever be available on 
Android.
Then of course I believe Eloquence can be used on Android phones and that would 
be awesome although for me personally it certainly is not enough incentive to 
switch.


From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
hshaneclark
Sent: September 7, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: the Alex voice

Hi ,

Just curious, can this particular voice be used with Android? I've heard it a 
few times and like it myself, would be nice to have on my phone if there was a 
way.

Shane.



On Sep 7, 2021 at 9:09 AM, Devin Prater 
mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes, because he sounds the most natural, as well as being the most responsive. 
I like him around 55 to 65%.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com<mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/



On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 10:56 PM Casey Wollner 
mailto:cwoll...@wi.rr.com>> wrote:
Hi are any of you using the Alex voice on your phone?
And if so what made you select it over all the other voices that you can use on 
your iPhone?
Also what is the speed rate you find that he reads the best where you can 
understand him?
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Gasping panting Alex, YECH! If human readers in any of my subscribed services made all those assumed extra human noises, I would be screaming for a refund!

[doug parisian]

On 2021-09-07 7:10 p.m., Simon A Fogarty wrote:


Alex I thought was developed by a company called Nuonce which apple 
then purchased


And I believe added to

*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
Of *Sieghard Weitzel

*Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2021 5:22 am
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: the Alex voice

Alex was developed by Apple so I highly doubt it will ever be 
available on Android.


Then of course I believe Eloquence can be used on Android phones and 
that would be awesome although for me personally it certainly is not 
enough incentive to switch.


*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> *On 
Behalf Of *hshaneclark

*Sent:* September 7, 2021 6:32 AM
*To:* viphone mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>>
*Subject:* Re: the Alex voice

Hi ,

Just curious, can this particular voice be used with Android? I've 
heard it a few times and like it myself, would be nice to have on my 
phone if there was a way.


Shane.

On Sep 7, 2021 at 9:09 AM, Devin Prater mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes, because he sounds the most natural, as well as being the most
responsive. I like him around 55 to 65%.

Devin Prater

r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 

gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 10:56 PM Casey Wollner mailto:cwoll...@wi.rr.com>> wrote:

Hi are any of you using the Alex voice on your phone?

And if so what made you select it over all the other voices
that you can use on your iPhone?

Also what is the speed rate you find that he reads the best
where you can understand him?

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RE: Refund For An App?

[Fazil]

Thanks much, Richard, I’ve called them and it has been taken care of.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refund For An App?

 

If you have the emailed receipt, there should be a report a problem link. 

But, calling Apple accessibility support could also get you started.

877-204-3930

 

Richard

 

"You know," said Arthur, "it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon 
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep 
space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was 
young."

"Why, what did she tell you?"

"I don't know, I didn't listen."

-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy





On Mar 10, 2021, at 8:09 AM, Brad Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net> > wrote:

 This can be a very difficult process. 

You can start by calling Apple Support, or perhaps Apple Disability.

 

- Brad -

 

On Mar 10, 2021, at 09:40, Fazil mailto:fzlmahmoo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Hi, Group.

I purchased an app from the AppStore which is not accessible by VoiceOver.

Can I return it for refund?

If yes, how can it be done, please?

Thanks!

 

 

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Re: Refund For An App?

[Richard Turner]

If you have the emailed receipt, there should be a report a problem link.
But, calling Apple accessibility support could also get you started.
877-204-3930


Richard

"You know," said Arthur, "it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon 
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep 
space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was 
young."
"Why, what did she tell you?"
"I don't know, I didn't listen."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

On Mar 10, 2021, at 8:09 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

 This can be a very difficult process.
You can start by calling Apple Support, or perhaps Apple Disability.

- Brad -


On Mar 10, 2021, at 09:40, Fazil 
mailto:fzlmahmoo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi, Group.
I purchased an app from the AppStore which is not accessible by VoiceOver.
Can I return it for refund?
If yes, how can it be done, please?
Thanks!


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Re: Refund For An App?

[Brad Snyder]

This can be a very difficult process.
You can start by calling Apple Support, or perhaps Apple Disability.

- Brad -


On Mar 10, 2021, at 09:40, Fazil  wrote:

Hi, Group.
I purchased an app from the AppStore which is not accessible by VoiceOver.
Can I return it for refund?
If yes, how can it be done, please?
Thanks!
 

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Refund For An App?

[Fazil]

Hi, Group.

I purchased an app from the AppStore which is not accessible by VoiceOver.

Can I return it for refund?

If yes, how can it be done, please?

Thanks!

 

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RE: app refund

[Bill Outman]

Oh, I get it now.  

 

I just looked it up and found it is Brooklyn stereotypical dialect for nerve.  

 

So there you go, Richard, the expression would be “The nerve,” as in “They have 
some kind of nerve to do that.”  

 

Bill Outman 

 

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
sandrastreeter...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 8:30 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: app refund

 

The NOIVE!!

 

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Robert 
Wright
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 3:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: app refund

 

Is there a way to get a refund for an app that proves to be partially 
inaccessible? It’s the Classics app which is suppose to have classic tv shows. 
It shows all the genres and subgenres but you can’t go any further than that. 
It even has a search field that only shows the edit field and a cancel button.

 


If all I have left in this 
world is God, I have everything!



Sent from Mail 
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

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RE: app refund

[Sieghard Weitzel]

What is “NOIVE”?

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
sandrastreeter...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 5:30 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: app refund

The NOIVE!!



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Robert 
Wright
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 3:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: app refund

Is there a way to get a refund for an app that proves to be partially 
inaccessible? It’s the Classics app which is suppose to have classic tv shows. 
It shows all the genres and subgenres but you can’t go any further than that. 
It even has a search field that only shows the edit field and a cancel button.


If all I have left in this 
world is God, I have everything!



Sent from 
Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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RE: app refund

[sandrastreeter381]

The NOIVE!!
 
 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Robert 
Wright
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 3:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: app refund
 
Is there a way to get a refund for an app that proves to be partially 
inaccessible? It’s the Classics app which is suppose to have classic tv shows. 
It shows all the genres and subgenres but you can’t go any further than that. 
It even has a search field that only shows the edit field and a cancel button.
 

If all I have left in this 
world is God, I have everything!



Sent from Mail 
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10
 
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RE: app refund

[Sieghard Weitzel]

When you receive the email receipt for the app there is a link to report a 
problem. You can also email 
itunesstoresupp...@apple.com<mailto:itunesstoresupp...@apple.com>, but you 
probably need the transaction number from the email receipt.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Robert 
Wright
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 12:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: app refund

Is there a way to get a refund for an app that proves to be partially 
inaccessible? It’s the Classics app which is suppose to have classic tv shows. 
It shows all the genres and subgenres but you can’t go any further than that. 
It even has a search field that only shows the edit field and a cancel button.


If all I have left in this 
world is God, I have everything!



Sent from 
Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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app refund

[Robert Wright]

Is there a way to get a refund for an app that proves to be partially 
inaccessible? It’s the Classics app which is suppose to have classic tv shows. 
It shows all the genres and subgenres but you can’t go any further than that. 
It even has a search field that only shows the edit field and a cancel button.


    If all I have left in this 
world is God, I have everything!
    

    
        Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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RE: The Fastest Refund in the West, Apple Pay, Forever

[M. Taylor]

Hello Kelly,

I used Apple Pay which was funded by a credit card.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Kelly Pierce
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 7:24 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Fastest Refund in the West, Apple Pay, Forever

to clarify Mark, was your Apple Pay transaction using a credit card or a debit 
card as the funding instrument?  Also, was this Apple Pay or Apple Pay cash.  I 
used Cash last December for the first time and my friend received payment 
instantaneously, as if I was placing bills into his hand. What was cool was 
that neither of us had any transaction charges.

Kelly

On 2/22/18, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> It has been my experience that actually receving a refund, via credit 
> card, can take anywhere from 48-hours up to 10 days.
>
> My previous returns to Best Buy usually result in a refund being 
> posted to my account in about 72-hours.
>
> Imagine my surprise when I received the refund for my Echo Plus, which 
> I purchased via Apple Pay, within 24-hours of its return to the store.  
> Very impressive.
>
> To be honest, I was a little concerned as to how long it would take in 
> order to receive the payment as I thought Apple Pay would add an 
> additional step to the refund process, extending the length of time to 
> even longer than 10 days. So glad I was wrong and even more glad that 
> I used Apple Pay for the transaction as, for my money, Apple Pay 
> provides the fastest refunds in the west.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: The Fastest Refund in the West, Apple Pay, Forever

[Kelly Pierce]

to clarify Mark, was your Apple Pay transaction using a credit card or
a debit card as the funding instrument?  Also, was this Apple Pay or
Apple Pay cash.  I used Cash last December for the first time and my
friend received payment instantaneously, as if I was placing bills
into his hand. What was cool was that neither of us had any
transaction charges.

Kelly

On 2/22/18, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> It has been my experience that actually receving a refund, via credit card,
> can take anywhere from 48-hours up to 10 days.
>
> My previous returns to Best Buy usually result in a refund being posted to
> my account in about 72-hours.
>
> Imagine my surprise when I received the refund for my Echo Plus, which I
> purchased via Apple Pay, within 24-hours of its return to the store.  Very
> impressive.
>
> To be honest, I was a little concerned as to how long it would take in
> order
> to receive the payment as I thought Apple Pay would add an additional step
> to the refund process, extending the length of time to even longer than 10
> days. So glad I was wrong and even more glad that I used Apple Pay for the
> transaction as, for my money, Apple Pay provides the fastest refunds in the
> west.
>
> Mark
>
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The Fastest Refund in the West, Apple Pay, Forever

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

It has been my experience that actually receving a refund, via credit card,
can take anywhere from 48-hours up to 10 days.  

My previous returns to Best Buy usually result in a refund being posted to
my account in about 72-hours.

Imagine my surprise when I received the refund for my Echo Plus, which I
purchased via Apple Pay, within 24-hours of its return to the store.  Very
impressive.

To be honest, I was a little concerned as to how long it would take in order
to receive the payment as I thought Apple Pay would add an additional step
to the refund process, extending the length of time to even longer than 10
days. So glad I was wrong and even more glad that I used Apple Pay for the
transaction as, for my money, Apple Pay provides the fastest refunds in the
west.

Mark

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Re: Apple store refund

[Wayne Scott]

I would call Apple Sales and get it that way. I have had to have them refund me 
a couple of times. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Hope Paulos <hope.pau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Either go to reportaproblem.apple.com or call and asked to speak with the 
> iTunes department… they would be happy to refund your money.
> 
> Hope Paulos
> 
>> On Sep 22, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Tom Rash <dadnthed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I upgraded my iPhone and was playing with the Apple TV remote on the iPHne 
>> and purchased something by accident.  It wasn’t very much money, but is 
>> there a way to get that reimbursed?
>>  
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Re: Apple store refund

[Hope Paulos]

Either go to reportaproblem.apple.com or call and asked to speak with the 
iTunes department… they would be happy to refund your money.

Hope Paulos

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Tom Rash <dadnthed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I upgraded my iPhone and was playing with the Apple TV remote on the iPHne 
> and purchased something by accident.  It wasn’t very much money, but is there 
> a way to get that reimbursed?
>  
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Apple store refund

[Tom Rash]

I upgraded my iPhone and was playing with the Apple TV remote on the iPHne
and purchased something by accident.  It wasn't very much money, but is
there a way to get that reimbursed?

 

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Re: When would you ask for an app's refund?

[Robin Frost]

Hi,
Whether you ask for a refund or not I just wanted to say that while I too 
have used social media to communicate with app developers it might also be 
best to try to contact them via any email addresses they might have listed 
in the app's settings area if it has one or in the app's description via the 
app store as they might not monitor social media as closely as other 
channels for reporting difficulties such as emails or web site forms.

For instance when I visited it at the app store here
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bills-monitor-bill-manager-reminder/id468993411?mt=8
I found a Bills Monitor Support link which took me here
http://www.maxwellapps.com/apps_2_bills_monitor.html
where I found an email address for contacting its developers.
I hope that helps.

Robin


-Original Message- 
From: Gerardo Corripio

Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 9:10 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: When would you ask for an app's refund?

Remember the other day when I recommended the Bills Monitor app, and wrote 
to the devs via Twitter and so far no updates or nothing! so I wonder what's 
would it take for you to ask for a refund? also if I leave the app on the 
App-switcher and double-tap, as long as I don't close it, it'll stay within 
the Bills menu, but if I close it, either I need to remember where the Bills 
menu button was, or ask for sighted help. Would you ask for a refund, or 
stick with the app, hoping someday the developper fixes it? Yes the cost is 
a dollar ($19 here in Mexico); part of me wants to keep the app since as 
mentiond before, the rest of the app is very accessible!--

Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird

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Re: When would you ask for an app's refund?

[Hope Paulos]

Hi! If the application is in accessible, I would ask for a refund. You do not 
need a receipt from Apple to  ask for a refund.
Call the main Apple number, and ask to speak to the iTunes department. Explain 
the issue you're having with the application and they will provide you with a 
refund. You will receive the refund in up to 10 business days.


Hope Paulos
PS, I work for the iTunes department…

> On May 27, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Jennie Facer <jennie.fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If it were me, I would ask for the refund until you know for a fact that that 
> app will be accessible the next time you download it. You need your receipt 
> from Apple to do this. That's what I would do. I am just of one opinion 
> though. 
> 
> Jenn 
> 
> Jenn and Kumi
> 
>> On May 27, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Remember the other day when I recommended the Bills Monitor app, and wrote 
>> to the devs via Twitter and so far no updates or nothing! so I wonder what's 
>> would it take for you to ask for a refund? also if I leave the app on the 
>> App-switcher and double-tap, as long as I don't close it, it'll stay within 
>> the Bills menu, but if I close it, either I need to remember where the Bills 
>> menu button was, or ask for sighted help. Would you ask for a refund, or 
>> stick with the app, hoping someday the developper fixes it? Yes the cost is 
>> a dollar ($19 here in Mexico); part of me wants to keep the app since as 
>> mentiond before, the rest of the app is very accessible!--
>> Gera
>> Enviado desde Thunderbird
>> 
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Re: When would you ask for an app's refund?

[Richard Turner]

I believe in your emailed receipt, there is a place to ask for a refund. You 
could just set Calendar reminders to repeat monthly on a certain date to remind 
you to pay your bills.
Richard


On May 27, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Jennie Facer 
<jennie.fa...@gmail.com<mailto:jennie.fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If it were me, I would ask for the refund until you know for a fact that that 
app will be accessible the next time you download it. You need your receipt 
from Apple to do this. That's what I would do. I am just of one opinion though.

Jenn

Jenn and Kumi

On May 27, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Gerardo Corripio 
<gera1...@gmail.com<mailto:gera1...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Remember the other day when I recommended the Bills Monitor app, and wrote to 
the devs via Twitter and so far no updates or nothing! so I wonder what's would 
it take for you to ask for a refund? also if I leave the app on the 
App-switcher and double-tap, as long as I don't close it, it'll stay within the 
Bills menu, but if I close it, either I need to remember where the Bills menu 
button was, or ask for sighted help. Would you ask for a refund, or stick with 
the app, hoping someday the developper fixes it? Yes the cost is a dollar ($19 
here in Mexico); part of me wants to keep the app since as mentiond before, the 
rest of the app is very accessible!--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird

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Re: When would you ask for an app's refund?

[Jennie Facer]

If it were me, I would ask for the refund until you know for a fact that that 
app will be accessible the next time you download it. You need your receipt 
from Apple to do this. That's what I would do. I am just of one opinion though. 

Jenn 

Jenn and Kumi

> On May 27, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Remember the other day when I recommended the Bills Monitor app, and wrote to 
> the devs via Twitter and so far no updates or nothing! so I wonder what's 
> would it take for you to ask for a refund? also if I leave the app on the 
> App-switcher and double-tap, as long as I don't close it, it'll stay within 
> the Bills menu, but if I close it, either I need to remember where the Bills 
> menu button was, or ask for sighted help. Would you ask for a refund, or 
> stick with the app, hoping someday the developper fixes it? Yes the cost is a 
> dollar ($19 here in Mexico); part of me wants to keep the app since as 
> mentiond before, the rest of the app is very accessible!--
> Gera
> Enviado desde Thunderbird
> 
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When would you ask for an app's refund?

[Gerardo Corripio]

Remember the other day when I recommended the Bills Monitor app, and wrote to 
the devs via Twitter and so far no updates or nothing! so I wonder what's would 
it take for you to ask for a refund? also if I leave the app on the 
App-switcher and double-tap, as long as I don't close it, it'll stay within the 
Bills menu, but if I close it, either I need to remember where the Bills menu 
button was, or ask for sighted help. Would you ask for a refund, or stick with 
the app, hoping someday the developper fixes it? Yes the cost is a dollar ($19 
here in Mexico); part of me wants to keep the app since as mentiond before, the 
rest of the app is very accessible!--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird

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Re: Refund

[Michael Feir]

I use the receipt that gets emailed to you. There's a link in that receipt
that says report a problem. Click on that and it takes you to a site where
you can choose a problem. I usually choose "bought the app by mistake" from
the picker. I usually get my refund quite quickly.
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:43 AM Michael Maslo <michaelmasl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi list, I know I have seen this before but could someone please tell me
> how I could go about getting a refund from the app store? I don't see the
> option pig like other operating systems. Thank you in advance.
>
>
> This
> <https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id922793622?pt=814382=8=how_i_email>
> is how I Email now
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Check out my blog at:
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Currently writing Personal Power: The iOS Edition
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Learn about iOS, audio dramas, podcasts and accessible games
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2014

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Refund

[Michael Maslo]

 
 
Hi list, I know I have seen this before but could someone please tell me how I 
could go about getting a refund from the app store? I don't see the option pig 
like other operating systems. Thank you in advance.  
   
 
 

 
 
   This 
(https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id922793622?pt=814382=8=how_i_email)
  is how I Email now
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

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RE: Getting a refund for an app

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Hi Terri,

It is up to Apple to give a refund, but if you buy an app that is not 
accessible they typically will do so. Check this article:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084

You can also simply send an email to itunesstoresupp...@apple.com, but you 
should probably forward your app receipt email to this address and describe the 
problem, the receipt email contains the transaction number and all information 
they require to do a refund.

Regards,
Sieghards,'


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Terri Stimmel
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 4:16 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Getting a refund for an app

Hello everybody,

I am sure this topic has been covered before. But I never read it, because I 
rarely purchase app. When I do, I already know if they are accessible or not. I 
want to purchase an app, but I know of nobody who uses it. The app is $25. I 
really want to try it out, as it will help me greatly in a lot of ways, if it 
is accessible. If I go ahead and purchase the app, how long do I have before I 
can no longer get my money back for it? I am assuming there is a time. On this?
If I want my money back, how do I go about getting it back?
And how long does it usually take to be put back on my card 

Any help that anyone can give me on this matter would be very greatly 
appreciated. I need this app for a group I am going to be in, and to learn some 
different skills. So any help would be awesome!

Thank you, and have a great day!

Terri

Sent from my iPhone

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Getting a refund for an app

[Terri Stimmel]

Hello everybody,

I am sure this topic has been covered before. But I never read it, because I 
rarely purchase app. When I do, I already know if they are accessible or not. I 
want to purchase an app, but I know of nobody who uses it. The app is $25. I 
really want to try it out, as it will help me greatly in a lot of ways, if it 
is accessible. If I go ahead and purchase the app, how long do I have before I 
can no longer get my money back for it? I am assuming there is a time. On this?
If I want my money back, how do I go about getting it back?
And how long does it usually take to be put back on my card 

Any help that anyone can give me on this matter would be very greatly 
appreciated. I need this app for a group I am going to be in, and to learn some 
different skills. So any help would be awesome!

Thank you, and have a great day!

Terri

Sent from my iPhone

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Refund on In-App Purchase

[Joe]

Hi, yesterday I purchased the in-app feature for Ariadne. Unfortunately when
I go to share a POI, the app closes and throws me back to the home screen.
Is there a way to get a refund on an in-app purchase? Or, can someone
explain how to work around this weird glitch with the GPS app? Thanks in
advance.

Joe

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Re: refund

[Kathy Metters]

Thanks!!

Katie Lady Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 1, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 8006927753
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Kathy Metters
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:28 PM
 Subject: Re: refund
 
 What number did you call regarding refunds?
 
 Katie Lady Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
 - Original Message -
 From: Flor Lynch
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
 Subject: Re: refund
 
 Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could 
 happen up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the 
 bottom there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, 
 and, maybe, refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill 
 in the fields as appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well.
  
 From: Robert Doc wright
 Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: refund
 What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
 there a way to get my money back?
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Re: refund

[Robert Doc wright]

8006927753

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kathy Metters 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:28 PM
  Subject: Re: refund


  What number did you call regarding refunds?

  Katie Lady Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
wrote:


I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
  - Original Message - 
  From: Flor Lynch 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
  Subject: Re: refund


  Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could 
happen up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the 
bottom there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, 
maybe, refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the 
fields as appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well. 

  From: Robert Doc wright 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Subject: refund
  What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. 
Is there a way to get my money back? 
  -- 
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Re: refund

[Robert Doc wright]

I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
  - Original Message - 
  From: Flor Lynch 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
  Subject: Re: refund


  Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could happen 
up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the bottom 
there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, maybe, 
refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the fields as 
appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well. 

  From: Robert Doc wright 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Subject: refund
  What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
there a way to get my money back? 
  -- 
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Re: refund

[Mary Otten]

You found a phone number to call to get a refund of iTunes match? Where did you 
find that? And what is the phone number?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
 - Original Message -
 From: Flor Lynch
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
 Subject: Re: refund
 
 Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could happen 
 up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the bottom 
 there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, 
 maybe, refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the 
 fields as appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well.
  
 From: Robert Doc wright
 Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: refund
 What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
 there a way to get my money back?
 -- 
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Re: refund

[Kathy Metters]

What number did you call regarding refunds?

Katie Lady Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
 - Original Message -
 From: Flor Lynch
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
 Subject: Re: refund
 
 Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could happen 
 up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the bottom 
 there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, 
 maybe, refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the 
 fields as appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well.
  
 From: Robert Doc wright
 Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: refund
 What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
 there a way to get my money back?
 -- 
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Re: refund

[Robert Doc wright]

I just contacted 
800-myapple
8006927753

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mary Otten 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 7:42 PM
  Subject: Re: refund


  You found a phone number to call to get a refund of iTunes match? Where did 
you find that? And what is the phone number?
  Mary



  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Robert Doc wright yeshua.talmi...@gmail.com 
wrote:


I called them and they did refund it. hurray!
  - Original Message - 
  From: Flor Lynch 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:39 AM
  Subject: Re: refund


  Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could 
happen up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the 
bottom there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, 
maybe, refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the 
fields as appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well. 

  From: Robert Doc wright 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Subject: refund
  What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. 
Is there a way to get my money back? 
  -- 
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Re: refund

[Flor Lynch]

Wait until you get the order receipt by email from iTunes. (This could happen 
up to a few days after your purchase.) When you get it, towards the bottom 
there is a reference to questions or disputes concerning purchases, and, maybe, 
refunds, click here and then the link. So click that, and fill in the fields as 
appropriate. You will be quickly refunded, all going well. 

From: Robert Doc wright 
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 4:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: refund
What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
there a way to get my money back? 
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successful end to my iBook refund saga

[Mary Otten]

I am happy to report that my saga of the unreadable iBook ended 
happily. After wasting way too much time with the terms and conditions, I did 
what I should have done in the first place. I googled my question of how to get 
a refund for an iBook. I got a link to an Apple support page where somebody had 
asked and received an answer to a similar question. The answer included the 
link to the page where you sign in with your Apple id, then fill out a simple 
form, and presto! Within a few hours of submitting the report, I got a nice 
email from an iTunes store rep stating that my account would be refunded. Now 
I’ll buy the Kindle version, since their free sample read perfectly in the 
Kindle app. Go figure.


Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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RE: successful end to my iBook refund saga

[M. Taylor]

Hello Mary,

I am delighted that you received a refund.

Do you think you could share the link you used to begin the refund process, 
with us?

Mark

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 5:02 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: successful end to my iBook refund saga

I am happy to report that my saga of the unreadable iBook ended 
happily. After wasting way too much time with the terms and conditions, I did 
what I should have done in the first place. I googled my question of how to get 
a refund for an iBook. I got a link to an Apple support page where somebody had 
asked and received an answer to a similar question. The answer included the 
link to the page where you sign in with your Apple id, then fill out a simple 
form, and presto! Within a few hours of submitting the report, I got a nice 
email from an iTunes store rep stating that my account would be refunded. Now 
I’ll buy the Kindle version, since their free sample read perfectly in the 
Kindle app. Go figure.


Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: How to get a refund for an inaccessible iBook

[Alexander Masic/Surgubben]

It looks difrerent from country to Country. You may contact the customer 
service in appstore and explayn your situation.




Mary Otten skrev den 15-06-27 16:31:

Hi all,
I recently posted about an iBook which is not usable with voiceover. I just 
looked at the receipt, and I see no reference there to any means of getting a 
refund. I believe such info is on the App Store receipts. Has anyone ever 
gotten a refund for an iBook, and if so, how?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



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How to get a refund for an inaccessible iBook

[Mary Otten]

Hi all,
I recently posted about an iBook which is not usable with voiceover. I just 
looked at the receipt, and I see no reference there to any means of getting a 
refund. I believe such info is on the App Store receipts. Has anyone ever 
gotten a refund for an iBook, and if so, how?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Ibook refund

[Mary Otten]

I'm curious if anyone on this list has ever received a refund for an 
inaccessible iBook. Having just looked through the terms and conditions, it 
looks like Apple washes his hands of the whole deal, and you would have to go 
directly to the publisher and try to get a refund from them. What a joke! I 
don't know if it's worth it. But I feel cheated, because it seems like Apple 
should be responsible for something that's not accessible with voiceover at 
least to the extent of offering a refund. I know they do with apps. Why not 
with books? So I am curious whether or not anyone has actually been able to get 
a refund for an iBook. How about Kindle? If you buy a Kindle book and it 
doesn't work with voiceover, can you get a refund from Amazon? 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: refund

[Chris Smart]

contact the App Store and ask!
At 11:31 AM 6/27/2015, you wrote:
What if I
discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is there a
way to get my money back? 

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refund

[Robert Doc wright]

What if I discovered that the app I purchased was not the one I needed. Is 
there a way to get my money back? 

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Re: Ibook refund

[Alexander Masic/Surgubben]

But how would if you write to Apple and describe your problem? have not 
try it out so mutch in Appstore, but google have some advantages, they 
are not many, but one thing wich is good, you are able to try and read 
first chapter or so. and if you want to se the rest, you must buy the 
book. And you notice at once if it's accessible or not.



Mary Otten skrev den 15-06-27 19:28:

I'm curious if anyone on this list has ever received a refund for an 
inaccessible iBook. Having just looked through the terms and conditions, it 
looks like Apple washes his hands of the whole deal, and you would have to go 
directly to the publisher and try to get a refund from them. What a joke! I 
don't know if it's worth it. But I feel cheated, because it seems like Apple 
should be responsible for something that's not accessible with voiceover at 
least to the extent of offering a refund. I know they do with apps. Why not 
with books? So I am curious whether or not anyone has actually been able to get 
a refund for an iBook. How about Kindle? If you buy a Kindle book and it 
doesn't work with voiceover, can you get a refund from Amazon?

Sent from my iPhone



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E-post: a...@masic.se

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Re: Ibook refund

[Mary Otten]

You can also get a free sample of a book on iBooks. I just didn't do it, 
because I assumed, after having purchased literally hundreds of iBooks, that 
there would not be an accessibility problem with this ordinary cookbook. 
Interestingly, I did try the sample on Kindle, and it reads perfectly. So, I 
guess I picked the wrong platform. 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 27, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Alexander Masic/Surgubben l...@masic.se wrote:
 
 But how would if you write to Apple and describe your problem? have not try 
 it out so mutch in Appstore, but google have some advantages, they are not 
 many, but one thing wich is good, you are able to try and read first chapter 
 or so. and if you want to se the rest, you must buy the book. And you notice 
 at once if it's accessible or not.
 
 
 Mary Otten skrev den 15-06-27 19:28:
 I'm curious if anyone on this list has ever received a refund for an 
 inaccessible iBook. Having just looked through the terms and conditions, it 
 looks like Apple washes his hands of the whole deal, and you would have to 
 go directly to the publisher and try to get a refund from them. What a joke! 
 I don't know if it's worth it. But I feel cheated, because it seems like 
 Apple should be responsible for something that's not accessible with 
 voiceover at least to the extent of offering a refund. I know they do with 
 apps. Why not with books? So I am curious whether or not anyone has actually 
 been able to get a refund for an iBook. How about Kindle? If you buy a 
 Kindle book and it doesn't work with voiceover, can you get a refund from 
 Amazon?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 -- 
 
 
 
 Alexander masic
 Östanväg 6
 SE222 28 Lund
 TFN: +46 (0) 70 999 74 74
 E-post: a...@masic.se
 
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Re: App refund options was Shortcuts keyboard with VoiceOver support

[Ioana Gandrabur]

Hi, 

After receivingthe refund I had no problem buying the app again. 
Best, 

Ioana  

  



Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 22, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Brent Harding br...@hostany.net wrote:
 
 I thought once you do it, you can't go get it with the gift card later, so if 
 the app ever did become accessible, you're then forever out of luck. I've 
 never done it before, but that's what someone says happened, that you're then 
 not allowed to have it even if they fix the accessibility and make it usable.
 
 - Original Message - From: Ioana Gandrabur igandra...@gmail.com
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 6:34 PM
 Subject: App refund options was Shortcuts keyboard with VoiceOver support
 
 
 In  my experience apple has made it quite easy to return apps within I think 
 2 weeks. You can click on report a problem in the email you get with the 
 receipt.  I did this twice ones because I meant to buy the app with a gift 
 card and accidentally got it before it was applied. An other time because of 
 accessibility. The refund was instantanious.
 I should add I'm in Canada, just in case this is region speciffic.
 Best,
 Ioana
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 20, 2015, at 6:58 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Last I knew, Apple's official policy was that all purchases are final. 
 Googling provides lots of sites with suggestions on how to return App Store 
 purchases, and I think people have had some success requesting to be 
 refunded for inaccessible apps.
 
 On 02/20/2015 09:22 AM, Tara Prakash wrote:
 any idea how it will be better than the same feature that iphone
 allows in the keyboard settings?
 Secondly, what is Apple's policy on apps that you purchased but found
 either not useful or inaccessible?
 
 Thanks for responding
 
 
 
 On 2/20/15, Steve Matzura number6...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was going to ask a similar question--what exactly does this program
 do?
 
 On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:22:49 -0600, you wrote:
 
 I'm not sure what this offers over the shortcuts we can already use with
 the IOS keyboard, but I do like that they mention VoiceOver support in
 their updates.
 
 On 02/20/2015 06:52 AM, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
 Shortcuts Keyboard by Matt Gardner
 https://appsto.re/us/1vK32.i
 
 --
 Christopher (CJ)
 chaltain at Gmail
 
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 chaltain at Gmail
 
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Easiest way to get to the page to request refund of app

[Ioana Gandrabur]

Hi all,


I wanted to add something not mentioned in the procedure outlined at the link I 
posted about asking for app refund.
THe easiest way I found to get to the report a problem link for requesting a 
refund of an app can be found in the receipt mail one gets after buying the 
app. One more great reason to make sure to keep these emails safe.
In that mail there's a link titled report a problem and you just have to sign 
in with your apple id and password and you land in the form where you can 
indicate the type  of problem you are having and submit your request.

OF course, I don't think one can over use this too often. But, as long as 
everyone uses this great feature in good faith  it might actually sharpen 
awareness about inaccessible apps both at apple and the developers. 

Hope this helps,




Ioana 




Sent from my iPhone

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Re: App refund options was Shortcuts keyboard with VoiceOver support

[Brent Harding]

I thought once you do it, you can't go get it with the gift card later, so 
if the app ever did become accessible, you're then forever out of luck. I've 
never done it before, but that's what someone says happened, that you're 
then not allowed to have it even if they fix the accessibility and make it 
usable.


- Original Message - 
From: Ioana Gandrabur igandra...@gmail.com

To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 6:34 PM
Subject: App refund options was Shortcuts keyboard with VoiceOver support


In  my experience apple has made it quite easy to return apps within I think 
2 weeks. You can click on report a problem in the email you get with the 
receipt.  I did this twice ones because I meant to buy the app with a gift 
card and accidentally got it before it was applied. An other time because of 
accessibility. The refund was instantanious.

I should add I'm in Canada, just in case this is region speciffic.
Best,
Ioana



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 20, 2015, at 6:58 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com 
wrote:


Last I knew, Apple's official policy was that all purchases are final. 
Googling provides lots of sites with suggestions on how to return App 
Store purchases, and I think people have had some success requesting to be 
refunded for inaccessible apps.



On 02/20/2015 09:22 AM, Tara Prakash wrote:
any idea how it will be better than the same feature that iphone
allows in the keyboard settings?
Secondly, what is Apple's policy on apps that you purchased but found
either not useful or inaccessible?

Thanks for responding




On 2/20/15, Steve Matzura number6...@gmail.com wrote:
I was going to ask a similar question--what exactly does this program
do?


On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:22:49 -0600, you wrote:

I'm not sure what this offers over the shortcuts we can already use 
with

the IOS keyboard, but I do like that they mention VoiceOver support in
their updates.


On 02/20/2015 06:52 AM, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
Shortcuts Keyboard by Matt Gardner
https://appsto.re/us/1vK32.i










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chaltain at Gmail


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App refund options was Shortcuts keyboard with VoiceOver support

[Ioana Gandrabur]

In  my experience apple has made it quite easy to return apps within I think 2 
weeks. You can click on report a problem in the email you get with the 
receipt.  I did this twice ones because I meant to buy the app with a gift card 
and accidentally got it before it was applied. An other time because of 
accessibility. The refund was instantanious. 
I should add I'm in Canada, just in case this is region speciffic. 
Best,  
Ioana 



Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 20, 2015, at 6:58 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Last I knew, Apple's official policy was that all purchases are final. 
 Googling provides lots of sites with suggestions on how to return App Store 
 purchases, and I think people have had some success requesting to be refunded 
 for inaccessible apps.
 
 On 02/20/2015 09:22 AM, Tara Prakash wrote:
 any idea how it will be better than the same feature that iphone
 allows in the keyboard settings?
 Secondly, what is Apple's policy on apps that you purchased but found
 either not useful or inaccessible?
 
 Thanks for responding
 
 
 
 On 2/20/15, Steve Matzura number6...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was going to ask a similar question--what exactly does this program
 do?
 
 On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:22:49 -0600, you wrote:
 
 I'm not sure what this offers over the shortcuts we can already use with
 the IOS keyboard, but I do like that they mention VoiceOver support in
 their updates.
 
 On 02/20/2015 06:52 AM, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
 Shortcuts Keyboard by Matt Gardner
 https://appsto.re/us/1vK32.i
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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refund a book?

[Joanne Chua]

Hi,

Is there a way that i can refund a book from iBooks through iTunes store?

What happen is that, i thought i bought an audiobook, but it turned
out to be an iBooks' book which, i already read...

Suggestion?

Thanks
Joanne

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Re: refund a book?

[christopher hallsworth]

In your email receipt click the report a problem link below the title and 
follow the instructions on the web page.
 On 19 Dec 2014, at 02:40, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Is there a way that i can refund a book from iBooks through iTunes store?
 
 What happen is that, i thought i bought an audiobook, but it turned
 out to be an iBooks' book which, i already read...
 
 Suggestion?
 
 Thanks
 Joanne
 
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refund on previously purchased app

[Larry McCreary]

Hello,
How is the easiest way to obtain a refund on a previously purchased app which 
was charged to my card?  I have the app on all my apple products but was 
charged for the last installation.
thanks very much

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Re: refund on previously purchased app

[Wayne Merritt]

You should have received an email from iTunes with an electronic copy
of your receipt. In that message there is a refund link which you can
open and fill out the form to request a refund. If you do not keep the
receipts for your app purchases, then I would strongly suggest that
you start since this is one of the few ways you can get a refund. I
haven't had to get a refund on an app very often, but was sure glad I
kept the receipt.

Regards,
Wayne

On 3/26/14, Larry McCreary lrmccre...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hello,
 How is the easiest way to obtain a refund on a previously purchased app
 which was charged to my card?  I have the app on all my apple products but
 was charged for the last installation.
 thanks very much

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Re: refund on previously purchased app

[Larry McCreary]

I certainly have a receipt but didn't see a refund link.  I will check again 
but must have missed it.
On Mar 26, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Wayne Merritt wcmerr...@gmail.com wrote:

 You should have received an email from iTunes with an electronic copy
 of your receipt. In that message there is a refund link which you can
 open and fill out the form to request a refund. If you do not keep the
 receipts for your app purchases, then I would strongly suggest that
 you start since this is one of the few ways you can get a refund. I
 haven't had to get a refund on an app very often, but was sure glad I
 kept the receipt.
 
 Regards,
 Wayne
 
 On 3/26/14, Larry McCreary lrmccre...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hello,
 How is the easiest way to obtain a refund on a previously purchased app
 which was charged to my card?  I have the app on all my apple products but
 was charged for the last installation.
 thanks very much
 
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Re: refund on previously purchased app

[Craig Werner]

Larry, if you email

itunesstoresupp...@apple.com

and include your receipt, you may get satisfaction.

Craig

On 3/26/14, Larry McCreary lrmccre...@earthlink.net wrote:
 I certainly have a receipt but didn't see a refund link.  I will check again
 but must have missed it.
 On Mar 26, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Wayne Merritt wcmerr...@gmail.com wrote:

 You should have received an email from iTunes with an electronic copy
 of your receipt. In that message there is a refund link which you can
 open and fill out the form to request a refund. If you do not keep the
 receipts for your app purchases, then I would strongly suggest that
 you start since this is one of the few ways you can get a refund. I
 haven't had to get a refund on an app very often, but was sure glad I
 kept the receipt.

 Regards,
 Wayne

 On 3/26/14, Larry McCreary lrmccre...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hello,
 How is the easiest way to obtain a refund on a previously purchased app
 which was charged to my card?  I have the app on all my apple products
 but
 was charged for the last installation.
 thanks very much

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RE: Question about refund

[Joe]

My request was processed immediately; however, the proper amount did not
reflect in my iTunes credit until 48 hours from the time of original
purchase.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chris H
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 6:30 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Question about refund

Good morning all
just requested a refund of an item I didn't mean to purchase. My refund has
been confirmed but how long then does it take before this is reflected in my
Apple Id? I checked as of a few minutes ago and no refund was shown.
Any responses greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Question about refund

[Chris H]

Good morning all
just requested a refund of an item I didn't mean to purchase. My refund 
has been confirmed but how long then does it take before this is 
reflected in my Apple Id? I checked as of a few minutes ago and no 
refund was shown.

Any responses greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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how to try and get an app refund?

[Anouk Radix]

Hello,
I bought an app that turned out to be inaccessible. I googled but cant find the 
place where i can report a problem with the app or cant you do this from an 
idevice? I looked at updates/purchase history..
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Greetings, Anouk,

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RE: how to try and get an app refund?

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Hello Anouk,

Your best option is to send a request including your receipt which you
received by email to itunesstoresupp...@apple.com. Make sure you explain in
detail that you are blind and that the app is not accessible with Voiceover.
You should probably also take a bit of time and search the archive for app
refund or something like that as there was just some discussion about 2
weeks ago when Neil Barnfather from England requested and at first was
denied a refund for an inaccessible app. You should understand that all app
sales are final and Apple has no legal obligation to grant a refund.
However, exceptions have been and are being made when it comes to apps which
are not accessible, but it very much depends on the representative who
handles your request. This is the reason why I said you should make sure you
really point out the fact that you are a Voiceover user and that the app in
its current form is unuseable. It goes without saying that it is best to
make sure your request is brief and to the point but includes enough
information to explain the circumstances, make sure it is professional,
courteous and free of spelling mistakes which I guess is part of what I mean
by professional.

Should your request for a refund be turned down your best option is to
forward your email and the reply you receive to Apple Accessibility and ask
if they can do something on your behalf.

Good luck and it would be nice if you could forward whatever answer you
receive to the list whether positive or negative as this may at one point or
another affect others as well.


Regards,
Sieghard


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Anouk Radix
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 6:16 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: how to try and get an app refund?

Hello,
I bought an app that turned out to be inaccessible. I googled but cant find
the place where i can report a problem with the app or cant you do this from
an idevice? I looked at updates/purchase history..
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: VO accessibility notice or refund issue

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

HI.

I got the same response.


Cheers 
Maria  

sent from mac mini 
email,  fb bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
skype bubbygirl1972  twitter same as skype without the numbers. 





On 09/08/2013, at 10:21 PM, E. Wayne Brumley ewaynebrum...@gmail.com wrote:

  
  
 I wrote the accessibility group at Apple regarding the refund issue and I got 
 a reasonable response yesterday.  I would cut and paste the response but my 
 previous message in which I did that doesn’t seem to have reached the group.
   Basically they said that they investigated the issue and that although 
 Sieghard got his refund, the message was confusing.  They said they would 
 work with their customer people to see that they understand that refunds are 
 appropriate if an app isn’t useable because it doesn’t work with VO.
  
 Regards,
 Wayne
 
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response from Apple accessibility on VO or refund

[E. Wayne Brumley]

 

 

I took the suggestion and wrote Apple accessibility regarding the refund
issue.  Their response seems reasonable to me although I would prefer to
know in advance myself.  It took several days to receive this answer so it
may not be a cookie cutter.  I'm encouraged.

 

  Hello, 

 

Thank you for your email and feedback. We have looked into this issue and
while a credit was issued to Sieghard, the response used did cause
confusion. We will work with the iTunes Store Support to ensure that the
correct information is sent back when a refund is issued. 

 

Curently any user can use the Report a Problem link from their iTunes
Account purchase history, or contact iTunes Store Support via the web to
request a refund for an app they may have purchased that does not work as
expected with VoiceOver. 

 

Apple Accessibility

 

 

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VO accessibility notice or refund issue

[E. Wayne Brumley]

 

 

I wrote the accessibility group at Apple regarding the refund issue and I
got a reasonable response yesterday.  I would cut and paste the response but
my previous message in which I did that doesn't seem to have reached the
group.

  Basically they said that they investigated the issue and that although
Sieghard got his refund, the message was confusing.  They said they would
work with their customer people to see that they understand that refunds are
appropriate if an app isn't useable because it doesn't work with VO.

 

Regards,

Wayne

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RE: VO accessibility notice or refund issue

[Lois Butterfield]

Hi,

 

Actually, the list did get your previous message.  Apparently, you aren't
able to see your own when they come through. 

 

Thanks for writing them and for posting their response.

 

Take care,

Lois

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of E. Wayne Brumley
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 8:22 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: VO accessibility notice or refund issue

 

 

 

I wrote the accessibility group at Apple regarding the refund issue and I
got a reasonable response yesterday.  I would cut and paste the response but
my previous message in which I did that doesn't seem to have reached the
group.

  Basically they said that they investigated the issue and that although
Sieghard got his refund, the message was confusing.  They said they would
work with their customer people to see that they understand that refunds are
appropriate if an app isn't useable because it doesn't work with VO.

 

Regards,

Wayne

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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Joanne Chua]

It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the refund from 
their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on such 
topic.
There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views rather than 
our rational views.

Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers offer trial 
software, and you can then choose to purchase or not purchase the software. 
But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago) those trial softwares have 
nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the OS developer. It got to do with 
the developer itself.

So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party 
software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for refund, but 
Apple user seems to do so?

Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it is a 
good way to use it as a complain maganism?

I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on Window 
with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found on Jaws, and 
FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do with it cause it 
operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...

Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but you 
can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use to, the brand 
of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle rather than a 
triangular shape that you wanted.
 

The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
 Date: 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 Reply-To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 
 Hello, David.
 That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least difficult, to 
 find a program on the PC which does not have either a trial or a method 
 through which a user may examine it before purchase. You seem, if I may say 
 so, to be thinking about things as they were 5 years ago rather than as they 
 are now. I have, in the past 5 years at least, never purchased a program I 
 didn't know I could use. The one case where I wrote to a developer before a 
 purchase to ask about accessibility was where the program had to do with tax 
 filing, and the application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or 
 return because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with 
 you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else 
 (Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique to 
 Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on mobile 
 platforms.
 Aman
 
 al Message-
 From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
 David Chittenden
 Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the 
 developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility, they 
 will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know what you are 
 talking about. You then take the chance, or you don't take the chance.
 
 The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that the 
 software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money, because the 
 software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to give it away as gifts 
 to people I knew would like it.
 
 With iOS, unless it's a game, or a very graphically intensive app, you have a 
 66% chance it will be somewhat accessible. These odds are the best I have had 
 in the computer marketplace, so I do occasionally take chances. And yes, I 
 have lost a couple hundred dollars over the past three years because I have 
 purchased apps that ended up not being accessible.
 
 If you don't want to take any chances, use our crowd-sourcing option, 
 applevis. Remember that we have a very small user base, so our crowd-sourcing 
 is quite limited.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 11:44, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 
 
HI.  if this option is not viable how do we get around this problem? It's 
 quite unreasonable to think that someone is going to buy an app over say $10 
 and just say well there's 10 dollars gone down the drain and never be able 
 to use the app? This list and applevis is wonderful and the only way I can 
 think to partially solve this problem is to contact an app developer and ask 
 them to test their app with voice over.  How do you manage the problem if you 
 want to purchase an app that no one else has tried

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Christopher Chaltain]

I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit 
an application developer from providing a trial or force you to only 
purchase applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store 
policies, hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is 
going to use an in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that 
Apple gets a piece of each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the 
problem and needs to be part of the solution.


BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil 
and unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I 
apologized for that, and I hope my behavior has improved.


On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote:

It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the
refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on
such topic.
There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views
rather than our rational views.

Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers
offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not
purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago)
those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the
OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself.

So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party
software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for
refund, but Apple user seems to do so?

Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it
is a good way to use it as a complain maganism?

I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on
Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found
on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do
with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...

Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but
you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use
to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle
rather than a triangular shape that you wanted.

The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:


*From:* Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com
*Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app
refund*
*Reply-To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com

Hello, David.
That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least
difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a
trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase.
You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5
years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at
least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one
case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about
accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the
application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return
because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with
you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else
(Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique
to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on
mobile platforms.
Aman

al Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the
developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility,
they will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know
what you are talking about. You then take the chance, or you don't
take the chance.

The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that
the software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money,
because the software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to
give it away as gifts to people I knew would like it.

With iOS, unless it's a game, or a very graphically intensive app, you
have a 66% chance it will be somewhat accessible. These odds are the
best I have had in the computer marketplace, so I do occasionally take
chances. And yes, I have lost a couple hundred dollars over the past
three years because I have purchased apps that ended up not being
accessible.

If you don't want to take any chances, use our crowd-sourcing option,
applevis

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[David Chittenden]

My understanding is that MS Windows Phone 8 has an App Store which also must be 
used. Unfortunately, as there is currently no accessibility in Windows Phone 8, 
this fact escapes our notice.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 18:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit an 
 application developer from providing a trial or force you to only purchase 
 applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store policies, 
 hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is going to use an 
 in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that Apple gets a piece 
 of each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the problem and needs to be 
 part of the solution.
 
 BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil and 
 unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I apologized for 
 that, and I hope my behavior has improved.
 
On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote:
 It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
 We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the
 refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
 Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on
 such topic.
 There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views
 rather than our rational views.
 
 Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers
 offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not
 purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago)
 those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the
 OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself.
 
 So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party
 software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for
 refund, but Apple user seems to do so?
 
 Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it
 is a good way to use it as a complain maganism?
 
 I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on
 Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found
 on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do
 with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...
 
 Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but
 you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use
 to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle
 rather than a triangular shape that you wanted.
 
 The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
 Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
 Send from my iPad
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 *From:* Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
 mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com
 *Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST
 *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app
 refund*
 *Reply-To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 
 Hello, David.
 That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least
 difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a
 trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase.
 You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5
 years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at
 least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one
 case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about
 accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the
 application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return
 because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with
 you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else
 (Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique
 to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on
 mobile platforms.
 Aman
 
 al Message-
 From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
 Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the
 developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility,
 they will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know
 what you are talking about. You then take the chance, or you don't
 take the chance.
 
 The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that
 the software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money,
 because the software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to
 give it away as gifts to people I knew would like

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Joanne Chua]

Hi David and other listers.

Indeed Windows phone now has an App Store. I can't remember the name of the 
apps, but i know they have such store, like Google Play store, and Apple 
Appstore.

Regards

The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

On 05/08/2013, at 16:37, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:

 My understanding is that MS Windows Phone 8 has an App Store which also must 
 be used. Unfortunately, as there is currently no accessibility in Windows 
 Phone 8, this fact escapes our notice.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 18:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit an 
 application developer from providing a trial or force you to only purchase 
 applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store policies, 
 hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is going to use 
 an in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that Apple gets a 
 piece of each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the problem and needs 
 to be part of the solution.
 
 BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil and 
 unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I apologized for 
 that, and I hope my behavior has improved.
 
   On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote:
 It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
 We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the
 refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
 Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on
 such topic.
 There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views
 rather than our rational views.
 
 Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers
 offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not
 purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago)
 those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the
 OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself.
 
 So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party
 software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for
 refund, but Apple user seems to do so?
 
 Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it
 is a good way to use it as a complain maganism?
 
 I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on
 Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found
 on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do
 with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...
 
 Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but
 you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use
 to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle
 rather than a triangular shape that you wanted.
 
 The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
 Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
 Send from my iPad
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 *From:* Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
 mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com
 *Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST
 *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app
 refund*
 *Reply-To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 
 Hello, David.
 That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least
 difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a
 trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase.
 You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5
 years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at
 least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one
 case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about
 accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the
 application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return
 because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with
 you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else
 (Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique
 to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on
 mobile platforms.
 Aman
 
 al Message-
 From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
 Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the
 developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility,
 they will tell you

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Chris H]

Actually most games for iOs are now considered accessible so there's 
even more of a chance, not 66%.


On 05/08/2013 05:46, David Chittenden wrote:

You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the developer. 
If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility, they will tell you. 
If not, they will say no, or they will not know what you are talking about. You 
then take the chance, or you don't take the chance.

The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that the 
software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money, because the 
software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to give it away as gifts 
to people I knew would like it.

With iOS, unless it's a game, or a very graphically intensive app, you have a 
66% chance it will be somewhat accessible. These odds are the best I have had 
in the computer marketplace, so I do occasionally take chances. And yes, I have 
lost a couple hundred dollars over the past three years because I have 
purchased apps that ended up not being accessible.

If you don't want to take any chances, use our crowd-sourcing option, applevis. 
Remember that we have a very small user base, so our crowd-sourcing is quite 
limited.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 11:44, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:


HI.  if this option is not viable how do we get around this problem? It's quite 
unreasonable to think that someone is going to buy an app over say $10 and just say 
well there's 10 dollars gone down the drain and never be able to use the app? 
This list and applevis is wonderful and the only way I can think to partially solve this 
problem is to contact an app developer and ask them to test their app with voice over.  
How do you manage the problem if you want to purchase an app that no one else has tried?


Cheers
Maria

sent from mac mini
email,  fb bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
skype bubbygirl1972  twitter same as skype without the numbers.





On 05/08/2013, at 9:34 AM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:


Well, given how few blind people there are, and how few apps we actually buy 
compared with sighted people, and considering that this model would require a 
complete rewrite and restructuring of the App Store, I seriously doubt it would 
happen unless Apple receives a great many requests for such.

The shareware  model of computer software distribution does something like 
this. Save for small companies, shareware is not usually used because  it does 
not typically make much money because people readily and easily crack the 
protection schemes.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 11:12, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi.  I was thinking more along the lines of the app could be downloaded and is 
fully functional for a day unless you purchase a key on the mac or do an in app 
purchase on the iphone.  Some apps can be rather expensive, I would not be 
willing to buy a 10 or 20 dollar app I could not use and probably wouldn't 
unless I had heard it was at least usable in some way with voice over. How many 
apps I wonder are not discovered to be accessible because people are afraid to 
buy them in case they are not usable?


regards
Maria and crew from australia
email:
bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
check out
www.95-the-mix.com
where we play lots of great music




On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:


I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:


HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free and 
trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am hesitant 
to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if they are 
accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis has tried them. 
I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's 
going to get expensive.
Warm regards and blessings
Maria, Joe and FurBabies
Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com



On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com wrote:


As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to support a 
general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, rather than 
an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to abuse.   
Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to let developers 
know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all requested refunds.   
It might even improve accessibility.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From

RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Aman Singer]

Hello, Joanne.
You write
So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party 
software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for refund, but 
Apple user seems to do so?
Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it is a 
good way to use it as a complain maganism?

Respectfully, I would say that Apple, like all other large companies, 
listens to the purchasing of its users and, on rare occasions, to the orders of 
judges and tribunal members rather than to their users' voices. Having said 
that, though, one does not ask Microsoft for a refund for inaccessible software 
made by developers because Microsoft can't give what it doesn't have. To put it 
differently, on Microsoft's desktop operating systems, like those systems made 
by Google, the various Linux manufacturers, etc, the operating system 
manufacturer sells you the operating system alone. You can, if you wish, buy 
other applications from the operating system developer's online store, but if 
you wish to buy from someone else, you are free to do so as many people do. 
Apple, on the other hand, in their iOS model, chooses to exercise control over 
and charge for apps from their own store. They also take significant technical 
steps to prevent people from installing applications without the consent of 
Apple. They are, therefore, involved in the process in a way which a standard 
operating system manufacturer is not. They approve the apps, take the money, 
etc. Microsoft doesn't and that's why you don't ask them for a refund except, 
of course, on their own products. Note that this is not unusual in the phone 
operating system area, but all the others which do it are either insignificant 
(Web OS) or inaccessible (Blackberry and Windows Phone). That's why we're 
talking about Apple.
As for the rest of your message, I'm afraid I don't see the connection 
between Jaws and this issue. The analogy of the restaurant does not meet this 
case because the problem is not that people don't like the app, it's that they 
don't know what the app can do before they order it. The sighted user knows 
what the app can do, the blind user does not know whether the description is 
accurate.
Aman
  -Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Joanne Chua
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 2:10 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the refund from 
their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on such 
topic.
There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views rather than 
our rational views.

Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers offer trial 
software, and you can then choose to purchase or not purchase the software. 
But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago) those trial softwares have 
nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the OS developer. It got to do with 
the developer itself.

So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party 
software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for refund, but 
Apple user seems to do so?

Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it is a 
good way to use it as a complain maganism?

I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on Window 
with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found on Jaws, and 
FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do with it cause it 
operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...

Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but you 
can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use to, the brand 
of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle rather than a 
triangular shape that you wanted.
 

The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 
Candidate Send from my iPad

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RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Thanh Vinh]

I just want to say a little bit more. The reason why people don't like to use 
cracked app is that there might be some harmful code in its source, there might 
be some hidden actions stealing information from users that we can't control, 
besides, cracked apps usually work badly, and certainly their performance is 
far less than bought ones. With cracked apps, you have to find new installation 
each time new update appears and lots of apps surely take lots of time but 
you'll be able to complete it right away in great comfort with real licenced 
apps.

Regards!

Jimmy Vinh Nguyen (Nguyễn Thành Vinh)
Skype ID: thanhvinh94
Y! messenger: nguyenthanhvinh1992
Facebook: http://facebook.com/jimmy.vinh.nguyen94/

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Aman Singer
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

Hello, David.
You write
Shareware is the only model where this is typically done. Shareware usually
comes from small start-ups which are still trying to get their names out,
and by hobbyists. Successful companies usually do not use shareware for
reasons of piracy.

Shareware programs can, and are, cracked so people can use them without
paying for them. Companies and developers which make and sell shareware do
not earn very much money from the shareware because it is so easily and
readily cracked.

I am sorry to contradict you, but the above seems to me to be inaccurate.
Most computer software products, whether from smaller or larger companies,
are available as downloadable trials. A quick search on Google brought up
the fact that Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/education/en-ca/resources/Pages/demos.aspx
Adobe
http://www.adobe.com/downloads.html
Norton/Symantec
http://ca.norton.com/downloads/
And Quicken/Intuit
http://quicken.intuit.com/support/help/refund/terms-and-conditions-for-excha
nging--returning-or-refunding-quicken-products/GEN83258.html 
all offer trials of their products. These are large companies and, though
they may not use the word shareware, as nobody does these days, they do
offer timed trials. I find it difficult to see the difference between these
trials and the shareware model. Obviously, these trials are just as
susceptible to cracking as any shareware package. Note that these are just
the first four companies that pop to mind, type in companyname trials into
google and you will probably get whatever company you want offering some or
all of their software as a timed demo. Note also that the vast majority of
hardware is offered as a trial in fact due to return policies. 
You write
So, let's consider Apple App Store with such a distribution method. If you
never jailbreak your iOS device, the system will probably work decently
well, except that a good hacker may be able to open the app's shell and
tinker with its timing factor. If the app cannot receive the accurate time
from the phone, it can always believe it is still in the 24 hour free trial
time.

Actually, cracked apps are available to both jailbroken and non-jailbroken
iDevices. These are not in any way secret, sites providing cracked apps to
all devices have been reported on in the mainstream media and can be found
with Google. There is no need to purchase an app from the app store to get
any particular app. This has been possible for several years. Though what
you say as to trials may have been accurate 3-5 years ago, most companies
have realized that they gain more from trials and the exposure they give to
people than they lose to the inevitable removal of protection. Apple's
protection is already compromised. A lack of protection is not a good reason
to avoid timed trials on app store apps.
Aman
 From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David Chittenden
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

Hello,

You completely missed my point about implementation of such a system, not to
mention the extreme complexities involved in coding it. Also, You completely
glossed over the fact that Shareware is the only model where this is
typically done. Shareware usually comes from small start-ups which are still
trying to get their names out, and by hobbyists. Successful companies
usually do not use shareware for reasons of piracy.

Shareware programs can, and are, cracked so people can use them without
paying for them. Companies and developers which make and sell shareware do
not earn very much money from the shareware because it is so easily and
readily cracked.

So, let's consider Apple App Store with such a distribution method. If you
never jailbreak your iOS device, the system will probably work decently
well, except that a good hacker may be able to open the app's shell and
tinker with its timing factor. If the app cannot receive

RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Aman Singer]

Hello, David.
You write
I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.

I agree, but there would be no need to do that. If Apple were 
interested in taking that step, they had better have done so years ago since 
pirating apps has been possible and actually fairly easy for quite a while. 
However, that would be a foolish step as it stands, Google does not need access 
to your machine to determine that an app has been uninstalled and returned 
within their 15 minute window. Similarly, Microsoft does not require access to 
machines even though their own software is often pirated. Keep in mind that it 
is in Apple's economic interest to appear as protective of their developers as 
possible without spending significant amounts of money or causing significant 
user backlash. To attempt to examine and modify machines so that piracy may be 
stopped when nobody else does it would, I think, be investing too much money 
and reputation for a fairly small gain. Everyone else is offering trials and 
not investigating machines. There is no reason Apple, if it wished to offer 
trials, could not do the same.
Aman
 From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
David Chittenden
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 7:02 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:



HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free 
and trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am 
hesitant to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if 
they are accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis has 
tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 
bucks? That's going to get expensive.

Warm regards and blessings 
Maria, Joe and FurBabies
Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com



On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com 
wrote:


As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to 
support a general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, 
rather than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to 
abuse.   Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to let 
developers know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all requested 
refunds.   It might even improve accessibility. 
 
Arnold Schmidt

- Original Message -
From: Cara Quinn mailto:modelc...@gmail.com 
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support 
regarding app refund

Sieghard and All,

Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list 
to write Apple Accessibility to request that there be reasonable accommodation 
in place for VoiceOver users to receive app refunds in cases like Sieghard's. 
I'd also suggest that Sieghard's note be attached to your own.

I believe this issue needs to be brought into the 
forefront in a positive and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this 
list and this is a very good opportunity to make this point heard.

This discussion has come up before of being alerted of 
VO accessibility ahead of time in the App Store and though we've not come to a 
set conclusion on the best way to do this, having some indication that an app 
has been found to be accessible to some degree with VoiceOver before we 
purchase it is a completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, then 
it is more than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an app which is 
not accessible to us with the available Apple universal access paradigm.

the email address for Apple Accessibility is:

accessibil...@apple.com

These are very caring people so please keep this in 
mind when you write. I've known some of them personally. They want to help 
though there may not be a clear way of making this happen just yet. Just let 
them know this is important though. Make your voice heard in a friendly way. 
they will listen to you even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)

Thanks All, for your time.

Sincerely,

Cara

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Anthony Vece]

Just one more reason to switch to a Droid.


Sent from my Verizon iPhone 5!

On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Les Kriegler kriegle...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Sieghard,
 
 I have a sense that the iTunes store isn't as willing to provide refunds as 
 they used to be.  I had an issue where I requested a refund because a sale 
 was canceled prior to the time it was supposed to occur.  I didn't get a 
 refund, but I got a credit for song purchase instead.  But it took a long 
 time to accomplish this, and I had to go to a second representative, as the 
 first lady with whom I spoke never got back to me.  I think I'd ask to speak 
 with someone else were I in your position.  Request this via e-mail; that's 
 what I wound up doing.  Good luck.
 
 Les
 On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover 
 has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted 
 in connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which 
 one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am in 
 Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar which are 
 both major carriers here. I contacted Track This support twice and never 
 received a reply.
  
 Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information 
 including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained how I 
 really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but that 
 unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover friendly and 
 there was no Light version offered which I could have tried first. I also 
 mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a week had not 
 received a reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even 
 waited to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to 
 make Voiceover improvements.
  
 I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app sales 
 are final, but that given the situation they would refund me the $6.72 or 
 whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also continued to give me links 
 as to their terms and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy 
 and that in the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it 
 was up to me to make sure I didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently 
 purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. 
 It was strange because all of this gave me the impression this person did 
 not at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the other hand 
 she said they would give me a refund given the situation. According to what 
 she said I should see the refund back on my account within 48 hours and 
 since both apps were purchased using store credit it would come back as 
 store credit. This is now 2 weeks ago and I replied twice to the initial 
 message to explain that I still had not received the credit and I am getting 
 no more replies.
  
 I guess what I want to say here is that those who have done this and 
 received refunds are lucky, but it appears one should definitely not count 
 on getting a refund even if an app turns out not to work with Voiceover. I 
 certainly will not buy an app again thinking I might as well try it because 
 if it doesn’t work I can always ask for a refund.
  
  
 Regards,
 Sieghard
  
 
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Re: App refund - the story continues

[Laura ann Grymes]

I just called when I had to get a refund for a totally inaccessible app.
The apple accessibility agent was friendly and helpful and worked with me to 
get the refund.

I recommend you call apple accessibility and ask them to help you get it 
resolved.

Laura Ann

On Aug 3, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:

 Hello List,
  
 I had requested help regarding my ignored request for a refund for 2 not 
 Voiceover accessible apps from another iTunes Store support agent. Granted, I 
 did so in a reply I sent to her about another problem I had when a gift card 
 I purchased didn’t allow me to redeem it, but here is her reply which doesn’t 
 even mention my request for help with the refund issue. I guess I will write 
 a completely new message askig for clarification.
  
 Original Message-
 From: iTunes Store [mailto:itunesstoresupp...@apple.com] 
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:01 AM
 To: siegh...@hotmail.ca
 Subject: Re: Gift Card code shows as not properly activated; Follow-up: 
 282515016
  
 Follow-Up: 282515016
  
 Hello again,
  
 I wanted to send a quick note to see if you are still experiencing any 
 difficulties with the iTunes Store. Resolving your issue is important to me, 
 so please don't hesitate to reply if you need any further assistance.
  
 Sincerely,
  
 Raquel
 iTunes Store/Mac App Store Customer Support
  
 Please Note: I work Tuesday-Saturday, 8:00AM-5:00PM EST
 
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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Laura ann Grymes]

Have you contacted the apple accessibility department by phone.
I did recently and they walked with me through the refund for an app that 
wasn't accessible and they were very pleasant.

You need to contact the accessibility department though not just the tech 
support.

laura Ann

On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:09 AM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:

 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover has 
 come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted in 
 connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which one 
 I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am in 
 Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar which are 
 both major carriers here. I contacted Track This support twice and never 
 received a reply.
  
 Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information 
 including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained how I 
 really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but that 
 unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover friendly and 
 there was no Light version offered which I could have tried first. I also 
 mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a week had not 
 received a reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even 
 waited to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to 
 make Voiceover improvements.
  
 I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app sales are 
 final, but that given the situation they would refund me the $6.72 or 
 whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also continued to give me links 
 as to their terms and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy 
 and that in the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it 
 was up to me to make sure I didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently 
 purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. It 
 was strange because all of this gave me the impression this person did not at 
 all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the other hand she 
 said they would give me a refund given the situation. According to what she 
 said I should see the refund back on my account within 48 hours and since 
 both apps were purchased using store credit it would come back as store 
 credit. This is now 2 weeks ago and I replied twice to the initial message to 
 explain that I still had not received the credit and I am getting no more 
 replies.
  
 I guess what I want to say here is that those who have done this and received 
 refunds are lucky, but it appears one should definitely not count on getting 
 a refund even if an app turns out not to work with Voiceover. I certainly 
 will not buy an app again thinking I might as well try it because if it 
 doesn’t work I can always ask for a refund.
  
  
 Regards,
 Sieghard
  
 
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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Hi, while the discussion of Droids comes up and is welcome in a 
constructive way when comparing Apples to Droids, does this below 
comment really add to the discussion in a positive way? Will Sieghard 
benefit by throwing in his iPhone, getting an Android, thus spending 
more money than the original app refund would be, just to prove a point 
that Droid might give him a better experience? Let's think about this 
before posting a message like this.


--
Raul A. Gallegos
You simply can't make a half sandwich. If it's not half of a whole 
sandwich, it's just a small sandwich. - Sheldon Cooper

Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47

On 8/2/2013 6:33 AM, Anthony Vece wrote:

Just one more reason to switch to a Droid.


Sent from my Verizon iPhone 5!

On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Les Kriegler kriegle...@gmail.com
mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi Sieghard,

I have a sense that the iTunes store isn't as willing to provide
refunds as they used to be.  I had an issue where I requested a refund
because a sale was canceled prior to the time it was supposed to
occur.  I didn't get a refund, but I got a credit for song purchase
instead.  But it took a long time to accomplish this, and I had to go
to a second representative, as the first lady with whom I spoke never
got back to me.  I think I'd ask to speak with someone else were I in
your position.  Request this via e-mail; that's what I wound up doing.
 Good luck.

Les
On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca
mailto:siegh...@live.ca wrote:


Hello List,
Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with
Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email
has been posted in connection with that. So I thought I post my
recent experience with contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out
which one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is
awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason they don’t support
Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers here. I contacted
Track This support twice and never received a reply.
Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information
including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained
how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but
that unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover
friendly and there was no Light version offered which I could have
tried first. I also mentioned that I contacted both developers and
after almost a week had not received a reply. In short, I was
friendly, explained everything and even waited to see if the
developers would reply to see if they were willing to make Voiceover
improvements.
I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app
sales are final, but that given the situation they would refund me
the $6.72 or whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also
continued to give me links as to their terms and conditions and said
that this was a one-time curtocy and that in the future they could
not provide any more refunds and that it was up to me to make sure I
didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently purchase apps or
read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. It was
strange because all of this gave me the impression this person did
not at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the
other hand she said they would give me a refund given the situation.
According to what she said I should see the refund back on my account
within 48 hours and since both apps were purchased using store credit
it would come back as store credit. This is now 2 weeks ago and I
replied twice to the initial message to explain that I still had not
received the credit and I am getting no more replies.
I guess what I want to say here is that those who have done this and
received refunds are lucky, but it appears one should definitely not
count on getting a refund even if an app turns out not to work with
Voiceover. I certainly will not buy an app again thinking I might as
well try it because if it doesn’t work I can always ask for a refund.
Regards,
Sieghard

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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Hi there, you do bring up a good point and it's something I mostly agree 
with you on. For example, most of the time when I've requested an app 
refund it's been because of a difference in price, or because of a 
mistake in something like, a free app with an app-purchase, or a full 
version app, which is totally separate and I wasn't clear on how it 
worked exactly. The List Recorder app being the prime example of this. 
Other times I've requested a refund were because the app in question 
made my phone lock up. Yes, go figure that an app which was approved by 
the app store was that unstable. In that case I felt that it went beyond 
accessibility. Now, here's where maybe I'm being my own hypocrite, I 
have requested an refund for an app which was zero percent accessible. 
Like the kind where I tried it, and nothing was spoken by Voice Over. 
I'm not talking about an app which somewhat works, but one which no 
matter what you do, nothing is heard. I too usually contact the 
developers and go that route first in the hopes that they will consider 
it and maybe release something in the future which will be accessible. 
Because of this, I've waited on several apps for which i could have 
requested refunds for and some have been worth it, some have not. Still, 
that's how I tend to do my deciding on whether I'll ask for a refund. On 
one hand I agree that it's not Apple's responsibility since they are not 
the developers, but on the other hand, I feel Apple is partially 
responsible, because they are the ones collecting money for this, and 
the ones who approve or reject the app to begin with. So, it's a gray 
area at best and one which only you, the individual iDevice user can 
decide on how to proceed. I don't believe in asking for app refunds for 
apps which you buy and don't like however, and I'm sure there are people 
both on and off this list who do that.


--
Raul A. Gallegos
I wish I could mute people in real life. - Sheldon Cooper
Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47

On 8/2/2013 8:39 PM, Joanne Chua wrote:

Hi,

First at all, let me clarify that what i'm about to say is purely come from my 
own views, it is not particularly heading towards individuals, or a group of 
people.

This stuff about Apple not refunding credits for apps is ones again a hot topic 
on this list.

However, is that really Apple's fault if they not refunding the credit for the 
apps, just because it have some accessibilities issue, or, we, as consumer 
simply asking too much?

After all, in Apple purchase T.O.C, there's no such statement stated that every 
apps need to be accessible, should be accessible.

It is up to us, as consumer to make the decision before purchase?

Have we ever thought of returning a window machine in the pass because they not 
accessible? Have we  ever thought of asking Micro not so Soft to refund $$$ 
that we pay for their window OS?

I'm a very strong advicate of accessibility, but i also believe that there's a 
belance in such.

I do agree with some of the listers, perhaps, They could include an 
accessibility category and have other sub-cat under the category.  If they do, 
for the interest of Apple and the developers, i urge Apple to put something 
about there's a risk for consumer to purchase apps beyond the accessibility 
category to be inaccessible. If so, it is the consumer responsibilities to 
contact the developer, and no refund will be consider on the condition that the 
app is not accessible.Joanne Shuang Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

On 03/08/2013, at 4:21, Nimit Gmail kaur.ni...@gmail.com wrote:


Hello Sieghard,
That's surely not something most people would expect from apple.  Talking to 
another representativve is always a good idea.  Someone I knew had a similar 
experience and they actually called apple and reported it.  I didn't know what 
happened next as I really didn't find it that important then.  They did, 
however, ended up getting their refund, that I know for sure.  I know they 
didn't give up and kept fighting.  No, please!  I am not trying to tell you to 
fight with apple.  All I am saying that if I were you, I would let apple know 
that this kind of situation happen and the customer service provided is not the 
best.  Maybe, just drop a lime .  Now, it is likely, that they might not 
directly not fix your refund issue, but at least, they know that happens and 
they need to support us by making their customer service a little better.  No, 
I am not saying that apple is not good with cust service, but sometimes,they 
just need to make their workers more aware of accessibility?  I hope y

ou somehow get it fixed.  It's a shame...  Well, good luck.  As somebody said, 
droping a line to accessibility team in apple might be a good idea.  Good day, 
everyone.


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:


Hi Ben and Kirsten,

Thanks, Ben, I think letting accessibil...@apple.com know about this is a
good idea

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Christopher Chaltain]

That is my understanding as well. Once Windows Phone becomes accessible, 
and assuming the Windows app store works similarly to Apple's then the 
same concern will exist for Windows Phone that now exists for the 
iPhone. The discussion below had to do with the PC though and the time 
frame predates the app store for Windows Phone 8.


On 08/05/2013 02:07 AM, David Chittenden wrote:

My understanding is that MS Windows Phone 8 has an App Store which also must be 
used. Unfortunately, as there is currently no accessibility in Windows Phone 8, 
this fact escapes our notice.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 18:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:


I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit an 
application developer from providing a trial or force you to only purchase 
applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store policies, 
hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is going to use an 
in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that Apple gets a piece of 
each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the problem and needs to be part of 
the solution.

BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil and 
unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I apologized for 
that, and I hope my behavior has improved.

On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote:

It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand.
We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the
refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed.
Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on
such topic.
There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views
rather than our rational views.

Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers
offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not
purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago)
those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the
OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself.

So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party
software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for
refund, but Apple user seems to do so?

Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it
is a good way to use it as a complain maganism?

I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on
Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found
on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do
with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac...

Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but
you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use
to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle
rather than a triangular shape that you wanted.

The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:


*From:* Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com
*Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app
refund*
*Reply-To:* viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com

Hello, David.
That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least
difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a
trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase.
You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5
years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at
least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one
case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about
accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the
application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return
because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with
you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else
(Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique
to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on
mobile platforms.
Aman

al Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the
developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility,
they will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know
what you are talking about. You then take

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Mike Arrigo]

As someone who uses both platforms, I can tell you that the same thing 
happens on android as well. Granted, Google does allow trial software 
but developers do not always provide it. Also, google will provide a 
refund within 15 minutes of purchasing an app, but that's not always 
enough time to tell whether an app is fully accessible. With both 
platforms, it really depends on if an app's controls are properly 
labeled and laid out in a logical way.

Original message:

Hi, while the discussion of Droids comes up and is welcome in a
constructive way when comparing Apples to Droids, does this below
comment really add to the discussion in a positive way? Will Sieghard
benefit by throwing in his iPhone, getting an Android, thus spending
more money than the original app refund would be, just to prove a point
that Droid might give him a better experience? Let's think about this
before posting a message like this.



--
Raul A. Gallegos
You simply can't make a half sandwich. If it's not half of a whole
sandwich, it's just a small sandwich. - Sheldon Cooper
Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47



On 8/2/2013 6:33 AM, Anthony Vece wrote:

Just one more reason to switch to a Droid.




Sent from my Verizon iPhone 5!



On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Les Kriegler kriegle...@gmail.com
mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com wrote:



Hi Sieghard,



I have a sense that the iTunes store isn't as willing to provide
refunds as they used to be.  I had an issue where I requested a refund
because a sale was canceled prior to the time it was supposed to
occur.  I didn't get a refund, but I got a credit for song purchase
instead.  But it took a long time to accomplish this, and I had to go
to a second representative, as the first lady with whom I spoke never
got back to me.  I think I'd ask to speak with someone else were I in
your position.  Request this via e-mail; that's what I wound up doing.
 Good luck.



Les
On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca
mailto:siegh...@live.ca wrote:



Hello List,
Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with
Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email
has been posted in connection with that. So I thought I post my
recent experience with contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out
which one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is
awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason they don’t support
Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers here. I contacted
Track This support twice and never received a reply.
Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information
including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained
how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but
that unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover
friendly and there was no Light version offered which I could have
tried first. I also mentioned that I contacted both developers and
after almost a week had not received a reply. In short, I was
friendly, explained everything and even waited to see if the
developers would reply to see if they were willing to make Voiceover
improvements.
I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app
sales are final, but that given the situation they would refund me
the $6.72 or whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also
continued to give me links as to their terms and conditions and said
that this was a one-time curtocy and that in the future they could
not provide any more refunds and that it was up to me to make sure I
didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently purchase apps or
read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. It was
strange because all of this gave me the impression this person did
not at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the
other hand she said they would give me a refund given the situation.
According to what she said I should see the refund back on my account
within 48 hours and since both apps were purchased using store credit
it would come back as store credit. This is now 2 weeks ago and I
replied twice to the initial message to explain that I still had not
received the credit and I am getting no more replies.
I guess what I want to say here is that those who have done this and
received refunds are lucky, but it appears one should definitely not
count on getting a refund even if an app turns out not to work with
Voiceover. I certainly will not buy an app again thinking I might as
well try it because if it doesn’t work I can always ask for a refund.
Regards,
Sieghard



--
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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Mike Arrigo]

Some have proposed that Apple simply not approve apps unless they are 
accessible. Of course, that can make things very interesting as well. 
What defines accessible? My definition would be that all elements of an 
app are accessible using voiceover and properly labeled. But, what 
about apps like 3 d games? There is no way that I know of to make those 
read using a screen reader. It's unlikely that Apple will take this 
approach. I think the best thing we can do both on IOS and Android is 
make developers aware of the accessibility problems we are having, and 
hope they fix them. In many cases, developers are simply not aware of 
the problem. And it's important to clearly explain the issue. Saying 
something like, your application is not accessible using voiceover is 
basically meaningless. Recently on the Android platform, I wanted to 
use an application where the controls were not labeled, so, when 
swiping through the screen, talkback would just say, button. button. 
I contacted the developer and explained the situation, first I 
explained what talkback was and how it allows a blind person to use an 
android device. Then I explained the problem with the app's controls 
and what was missing. I'm sure IOS has something similar, but in the 
case of Android, one of the attributes for each control is called 
content description. This is not displayed on the screen, but the 
accessibility framework will provide this to a screen reader if 
present. So I asked the developer to add a content description for each 
control and also included a link to the part of the android developer 
guide explaining this. The developer was very receptive to this and 
from what he says, everything will be labeled in the next release. Of 
course, not all developers are that helpful, but I think with both 
platforms, most are willing to correct problems like this if they are 
properly informed about them.

Original message:

Hi there, you do bring up a good point and it's something I mostly agree
with you on. For example, most of the time when I've requested an app
refund it's been because of a difference in price, or because of a
mistake in something like, a free app with an app-purchase, or a full
version app, which is totally separate and I wasn't clear on how it
worked exactly. The List Recorder app being the prime example of this.
Other times I've requested a refund were because the app in question
made my phone lock up. Yes, go figure that an app which was approved by
the app store was that unstable. In that case I felt that it went beyond
accessibility. Now, here's where maybe I'm being my own hypocrite, I
have requested an refund for an app which was zero percent accessible.
Like the kind where I tried it, and nothing was spoken by Voice Over.
I'm not talking about an app which somewhat works, but one which no
matter what you do, nothing is heard. I too usually contact the
developers and go that route first in the hopes that they will consider
it and maybe release something in the future which will be accessible.
Because of this, I've waited on several apps for which i could have
requested refunds for and some have been worth it, some have not. Still,
that's how I tend to do my deciding on whether I'll ask for a refund. On
one hand I agree that it's not Apple's responsibility since they are not
the developers, but on the other hand, I feel Apple is partially
responsible, because they are the ones collecting money for this, and
the ones who approve or reject the app to begin with. So, it's a gray
area at best and one which only you, the individual iDevice user can
decide on how to proceed. I don't believe in asking for app refunds for
apps which you buy and don't like however, and I'm sure there are people
both on and off this list who do that.



--
Raul A. Gallegos
I wish I could mute people in real life. - Sheldon Cooper
Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47



On 8/2/2013 8:39 PM, Joanne Chua wrote:

Hi,


First at all, let me clarify that what i'm about to say is purely come 
from my own views, it is not particularly heading towards individuals, 
or a group of people.


This stuff about Apple not refunding credits for apps is ones again a 
hot topic on this list.


However, is that really Apple's fault if they not refunding the credit 
for the apps, just because it have some accessibilities issue, or, we, 
as consumer simply asking too much?


After all, in Apple purchase T.O.C, there's no such statement stated 
that every apps need to be accessible, should be accessible.



It is up to us, as consumer to make the decision before purchase?


Have we ever thought of returning a window machine in the pass because 
they not accessible? Have we  ever thought of asking Micro not so Soft 
to refund $$$ that we pay for their window OS?


I'm a very strong advicate of accessibility, but i also believe that 
there's a belance in such.


I do agree with some of the listers, perhaps, They could include an 
accessibility category

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

Hi.  I totally agree with your post.  I would never ask for a refund simply 
because I decided I didn't like the app. I think if an app is bought and is 
totally unusable with voice over and there's no way to know this without 
downloading the app, something should be put in place.  It's not about liking 
the app but about being able to use an app that was purchased.

I can tell if I'm going to like an app by the description and even reviews but 
there is really no way to tell if it will be usable with voice over unless 
someone else has gone and spent money to purchase it. I always try to say if an 
app is accessible in a review, who knows this might help someone out down the 
track. 
Blessings!
maria and Joe chapman
Email, iMessage  fb: bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
twitter: bubbygirl



On 05/08/2013, at 11:22 PM, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote:

 Hi there, you do bring up a good point and it's something I mostly agree with 
 you on. For example, most of the time when I've requested an app refund it's 
 been because of a difference in price, or because of a mistake in something 
 like, a free app with an app-purchase, or a full version app, which is 
 totally separate and I wasn't clear on how it worked exactly. The List 
 Recorder app being the prime example of this. Other times I've requested a 
 refund were because the app in question made my phone lock up. Yes, go figure 
 that an app which was approved by the app store was that unstable. In that 
 case I felt that it went beyond accessibility. Now, here's where maybe I'm 
 being my own hypocrite, I have requested an refund for an app which was zero 
 percent accessible. Like the kind where I tried it, and nothing was spoken by 
 Voice Over. I'm not talking about an app which somewhat works, but one which 
 no matter what you do, nothing is heard. I too usually contact the developers 
 and go that route first in the hopes that they will consider it and maybe 
 release something in the future which will be accessible. Because of this, 
 I've waited on several apps for which i could have requested refunds for and 
 some have been worth it, some have not. Still, that's how I tend to do my 
 deciding on whether I'll ask for a refund. On one hand I agree that it's not 
 Apple's responsibility since they are not the developers, but on the other 
 hand, I feel Apple is partially responsible, because they are the ones 
 collecting money for this, and the ones who approve or reject the app to 
 begin with. So, it's a gray area at best and one which only you, the 
 individual iDevice user can decide on how to proceed. I don't believe in 
 asking for app refunds for apps which you buy and don't like however, and I'm 
 sure there are people both on and off this list who do that.
 
 --
 Raul A. Gallegos
 I wish I could mute people in real life. - Sheldon Cooper
 Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47
 
 On 8/2/2013 8:39 PM, Joanne Chua wrote:
 Hi,
 
 First at all, let me clarify that what i'm about to say is purely come from 
 my own views, it is not particularly heading towards individuals, or a group 
 of people.
 
 This stuff about Apple not refunding credits for apps is ones again a hot 
 topic on this list.
 
 However, is that really Apple's fault if they not refunding the credit for 
 the apps, just because it have some accessibilities issue, or, we, as 
 consumer simply asking too much?
 
 After all, in Apple purchase T.O.C, there's no such statement stated that 
 every apps need to be accessible, should be accessible.
 
 It is up to us, as consumer to make the decision before purchase?
 
 Have we ever thought of returning a window machine in the pass because they 
 not accessible? Have we  ever thought of asking Micro not so Soft to refund 
 $$$ that we pay for their window OS?
 
 I'm a very strong advicate of accessibility, but i also believe that there's 
 a belance in such.
 
 I do agree with some of the listers, perhaps, They could include an 
 accessibility category and have other sub-cat under the category.  If they 
 do, for the interest of Apple and the developers, i urge Apple to put 
 something about there's a risk for consumer to purchase apps beyond the 
 accessibility category to be inaccessible. If so, it is the consumer 
 responsibilities to contact the developer, and no refund will be consider on 
 the condition that the app is not accessible.Joanne Shuang Chua
 Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
 Send from my iPad
 
 On 03/08/2013, at 4:21, Nimit Gmail kaur.ni...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello Sieghard,
 That's surely not something most people would expect from apple.  Talking 
 to another representativve is always a good idea.  Someone I knew had a 
 similar experience and they actually called apple and reported it.  I 
 didn't know what happened next as I really didn't find it that important 
 then.  They did, however, ended up getting their refund, that I know for 
 sure.  I know they didn't give up and kept fighting.  No, please

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com
 mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so
 they can occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman
 bubbygirl1...@gmail.com mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for
 free and trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to
 try but am hesitant to download due to the fact that there is really
 no way to tell if they are accessible or not unless someone on list
 or someone on applevis has tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c app
 it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's going to get
 expensive.
 Warm regards and blessings
 Maria, Joe and FurBabies
 Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com http://gmail.com/
 
 
 
 On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com
 mailto:arno...@mindspring.com wrote:
 
 As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to
 support a general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least
 use to have, rather than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.
 That is just too open to abuse.   Besides, a general refund policy
 would be an even better way to let developers know if people didn't
 like their app, a bunch of them all requested refunds.   It might
 even improve accessibility.
 Arnold Schmidt
 
   - Original Message -
   *From:*Cara Quinn mailto:modelc...@gmail.com
   *To:*viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com
   *Sent:*Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
   *Subject:*Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support
   regarding app refund
 
   Sieghard and All,
 
   Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to
   write Apple Accessibility to request that there be reasonable
   accommodation in place for VoiceOver users to receive app
   refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also suggest that
   Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
 
   I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in
   a positive and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this
   list and this is a very good opportunity to make this point heard.
 
   This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO
   accessibility ahead of time in the App Store and though we've
   not come to a set conclusion on the best way to do this, having
   some indication that an app has been found to be accessible to
   some degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it is a
   completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, then it
   is more than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an
   app which is not accessible to us with the available Apple
   universal access paradigm.
 
   the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
 
   accessibil...@apple.com mailto:accessibil...@apple.com
 
   These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when
   you write. I've known some of them personally. They want to
   help though there may not be a clear way of making this happen
   just yet. Just let them know this is important though. Make
   your voice heard in a friendly way. they will listen to you
   even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
 
   Thanks All, for your time.
 
   Sincerely,
 
   Cara :)
   On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca
   mailto:siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
   Hello List,
   Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with
   Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support
   email has been posted in connection with that. So I thought I
   post my recent experience with contacting iTunes Store support
   via their email.
   I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find
   out which one I liked best. I have been using Track This which
   is awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason they don’t
   support Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers
   here. I contacted Track This support twice and never received a
   reply.
   Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the
   information including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id
   etc. I explained how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the
   fantastic accessibility, but that unfortunately these two apps
   I purchased were not voiceover friendly and there was no Light
   version offered which I could have tried first. I also
   mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a
   week had not received a reply. In short, I was friendly,
   explained everything and even waited to see if the developers
   would reply to see if they were willing to make Voiceover
   improvements.
   I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all
   app sales are final, but that given the situation they would
   refund me the $6.72 or whatever

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Christopher Chaltain]

I may not answer your question, but this got me to do some Googling. 
Just as an FYI, here's some pointers to some information I found:


Here's an article calling for Apple to implement a try and buy scheme. 
I'm just pointing this out because this isn't just an issue being 
suggested by blind App Store users. There's also a demand for this 
feature from the general population as well.


http://www.macgasm.net/2013/05/10/an-excellent-take-on-how-to-implement-app-store-trial-versions/

The above article points to this page where someone lays out how Apple 
could implement such a try and buy scheme in the App Store. This author 
doesn't think this would be too difficult to implement, and they seem to 
have put a lot of thought into this design, but they're not an Apple 
developer, so who really knows for sure. The comments are also 
interesting and they talk about how Google Play works and even bring up 
other issues discussed in this thread.


http://blog.amyworrall.com/post/42919561190/app-store-trials

This article from March of 2012 talks about how some updates in Apple's 
App Store TC's might start allowing for free trials by using in app 
purchases. I guess this could address your question, and I think David 
has already made this point, that app developers are now able to use in 
app purchases to provide free trials.


http://www.cultofmac.com/151955/apple-hints-at-free-trials-in-the-app-store-with-new-itunes-terms-and-conditions/

This article from 2010 talks about how Apple was highlighting the free 
and lite versions of paid apps in the App Store to stem the criticism of 
their no try and buy or refund policy. It points out that Google Play 
has a trial period, Nokia allows for trial apps and the Windows App 
Store will also allow for trials.


http://www.techhive.com/article/202724/Apple_Highlights_Free_Trial_Apps_Section.html

This is an article from 2011 talking about some apparent code in iTunes 
that indicates Apple would allow rentals from the App Store. This lead 
to rumors that Apple would be adding a try and buy feature to the App 
Store. I hesitated to include this link, but it does show that the lack 
of a try and buy feature in the App Store is an issue with the wider 
community of iPhone users, and it may indicate that implementing such a 
feature wouldn't be as expensive or as complex as some people have implied.


http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/10/03/app-store-trials/

I thought this article was pretty interesting. Apparently, Apple has 
implemented a seven day trial for App Store apps available in Taipei 
only. Apparently this is part of Taiwanese law since consumers have to 
be able to touch the products they purchase before they pay for them. 
Since this function has already been implemented in iTunes and the App 
Store, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard for Apple to reuse 
this implementation in other markets. It's also interesting to note that 
Google was fined for not complying with this law.


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2011/07/15/2003508264

This is the result of a pole in 2010 where 83% of the respondents said 
Apple should allow for free trials. I'm not sure this says much, because 
who would be against free trials other than some app developers and 
maybe Apple itself. I think this points out though that this isn't just 
an issue important to blind iPhone users.


http://www.ipadforums.net/apple-ipad-polls/7658-free-trial-versions-app-store.html

Here's another call for App Store wide 24 hour free trials.

http://gizmodo.com/5605938/apple-should-enable-24+hour-trials-for-all-paid-apps

Here's another article calling for a try and buy feature in IOS 5.

http://m.imore.com/ios-5-app-store-demos-upgrades-subscriptions

I did a Google search for trials Apple App Store and these were all of 
the articles I found on my first page related to this issue. I didn't 
hold back any articles contrary to my own opinions on this issue. I'm 
just sharing since I thought others interested in this issue might find 
this interesting reading.


On 08/05/2013 04:33 PM, Maria and Joe Chapman wrote:

HI.  there are already a lot of apps that have limited functionality unless you 
buy them.  Couldn't this simply be extended to more apps?
Warm regards and blessings
Maria, Joe and FurBabies
Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com



On 05/08/2013, at 2:23 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:


Hello,

You completely missed my point about implementation of such a system, not to 
mention the extreme complexities involved in coding it. Also, You completely 
glossed over the fact that Shareware is the only model where this is typically 
done. Shareware usually comes from small start-ups which are still trying to 
get their names out, and by hobbyists. Successful companies usually do not use 
shareware for reasons of piracy.

Shareware programs can, and are, cracked so people can use them without paying 
for them. Companies and developers which make

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Christopher Chaltain]

I agree AppleVis is a good example of crowd sourcing, but if this were 
to be implemented in the App Store then it would reach more blind people 
and have more visibility to the app developers.


You're right, in app purchases could be used to allow people to try 
software before buying, but I've only seen this implemented in the App 
Store in a very few cases. Maybe this will change over time.


On 08/04/2013 12:52 AM, David Chittenden wrote:

Yes, and the same exists in the App Store. Developers can choose to set up 
in-app purchases. It is no longer necessary for them to have a free version and 
a pay version.

As for crowd-sourcing, Applevis is our version of crowd sourcing. If you don't 
want to take any risks, stick to the apps which others state are accessible in 
our crowd-sourcing option.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 04/08/2013, at 17:29, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:


I think the difference here is that there have been plenty of instances where 
I've been able to download a trial of some software, to determine if it's 
accessible or not. Sometimes it requires a key to be purchased before it stops 
functioning or it's functionality is some how limited until you purchase a key 
or an upgrade. In general, I don't purchase software for my PC unless I can try 
it out ahead of time or get a pretty detailed review or demo of the software. 
Apple's policies don't allow trials for apps in the App Store, so I think it's 
OK to ask Apple to be part of the solution here.

On 08/04/2013 12:11 AM, David Chittenden wrote:

Reading these messages, I am reminded of computer software throughout
the past 30 years.

When you purchase a program on disk in a store, the policy is, and has
been for the past 30 years, that if you open the packaging, you cannot
return the program. I wasted many dollars purchasing software that
turned out to be inaccessible. Very occasionally, I was able to convince
the shop to refund my money, but usually I was out of luck.

The real question is why has our computer culture been like this for at
least the previous 30 years? The answer is, software piracy. In the
beginning of computer usage, when disks took the place of punch cards,
people figured out how to exactly duplicate software. So, they would
purchase the program disk, take it home, open it, copy it, return the
disk to the store, say it did not meet their needs, get a refund, and
return home to use their now free software. The more enterprising
amongst them would share the software, or even sell the software. This
is otherwise known as piracy, and it is very big business. Oh, and save
for a few business enterprise exceptions, most purchased computer
software cannot be returned, even if it is inaccessible. And, it
definitely cannot be try-it before you buy-it.

So, what about the App Store? Apple ties your software purchase to your
account to reduce software piracy. However, any app you purchase
immediately and permanently exists on your iOS device and in any
external back-up medium. So, when you get a refund from Apple, you still
have access to the app. You will not be able to upgrade it without
purchasing it again, but the original software may well be in your
possession. Unless you agree to allow Apple to make random spot-checks
of your iOS device to confirm that you have, indeed, removed any and all
incidents of the software, and they can check in several months time to
continue verifying that you are not secretly running the software you
haven't paid for, well, that is the other side of the argument. If I was
an app developer, I would not want to know my apps were being pirated.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 04/08/2013, at 13:45, Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi, alan.
You say

what happens when a sighted person gets an app and  they think it
doesn't meet their needs.


With respect, that depends on whether the description accurately told
the sighted user what the application would do. If the textual
description and the screenshots the app store presented gave an
accurate description of the app, then the user has nothing to complain
of. If the description was inaccurate, then the user should get a
refund. THe problem, of course, for the blind user is that the
description may or may not be true. The app may say it can do X, and
may in fact do X for a sighted user but not for a user of VO. For the
VO user, the description is simply false unless it says that VO will
not work with the app. It seems plain that the VO user is entitled to
an accurate description, one which says whether the app will actually
do what it says it will. Failing that, the user is entitled to try the
product to see if the description is false. Failing even that, the
user is entitled to a refund if the description

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Joseph and list.

Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. This is 
built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is called 
Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a simple and 
impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps which come 
through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.

As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a part 
of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all that would 
be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The fact is is that 
the features of Universal Access are already documented so it is even possible 
for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the manual so to speak. It 
is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers need to acquaint 
themselves with new material every time a significant update is made to the iOS 
SDK so that they can review apps properly. So this idea that training is a big 
and costly issue is untrue. Training is par for the course.

Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last night, 
one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's main 
advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible that not 
every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe this is a very 
reasonable beginning to pursue.

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that if 
we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason to go 
ahead with any ideas at all.

Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of their 
life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a process 
and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what Apple has 
been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things are refined and 
changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin now. let's propose 
something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there we can work together 
for it to grow and change.

Just as a note, I also did suggest to Apple that they consider this as an 
opportunity for this community to be involved in the process. After all, who 
better to work with accessibility than those who are already proficient at it?

This would be an excellent opportunity for jobs for this community.

I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion going!…

Thanks All, have a great night / rest of your weekend!

Smiles,

Cara :)
On Aug 3, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:

I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple 
will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there 
is just too much subjective criteria at play.
1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is 
accessible?

2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%? 
90? 100%?

3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible, 
then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the 
blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to 
convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being 
accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take 
countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while 
the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in 
time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it 
go. :)

4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to 
test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to 
train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what 
is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time, 
effort, and tons of costs.

5. What exactly is meant by Accessibility? Apple will absolutely have to 
define and address this question before taking any first steps to achieve 
it. There are still some holes in the ADA, and if the 600+ house and senate 
members including the president had a tough time defining reasonable 
accommodations, then it is likely a business will not want to get anywhere 
near this issue unless forced to do so.

6. In Windows 8, Microsoft has tried this accessibility tag in their Windows 
store and many developers have chosen to list their apps as accessible even 
though these aps cannot be used by a blind individual. Remember, 
accessibility means lots more than just accessible to the blind. Again, 
we're back to how will Apple implement such a system? Will they leave it in 
the hands of the developer, or will they use their own team which accepts or 
rejects submitted apps. If they do it in-house, this means training either 
all of their employs or this means training a select group; if so, this will 
have to be quite a large group.

Don't get me

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Joseph FreeTech]

I'm sorry but this is not accurate:

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
to go ahead with any ideas at all.

This is clearly not at all what I stated nor meant. I never presented this 
either or situation. I also never said anything about the need for 
perfection, nor did I say anything about various levels of accessibility 
being impossible.

My point was to convey that these matters are not as easy as many have so 
far asserted. If anyone here has ever developed any sort of cognitive 
assessment tool like a standardized test he or she will know exactly what I 
mean. There is a huge variability in the human experience and though one can 
derive averages, it is difficult to find common ground in these matters. 
Hence, different models of automobiles, apps that do the same thing, 
favorite X and Y, etc. Again, one can gather a bunch of voluounteers, but 
once the dream becomes work, you will lose a large percentage of your 
volunteers and will be forced to pay someone or leave the idea as just that. 
With that said, let's see how many people volunteer from this point on to 
demand accessibility from Apple.

Please understand that I'm not trying to incite anything, I'm only 
presenting a perspective many have not considered, but one that is always 
present and difficult to overcome. I belong to the same population of 
individuals as the rest of you, I'm only conveying that there's lots that 
has not been considered.

Joseph

- Original Message - 
From: Cara Quinn modelc...@gmail.com
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund


Hi Joseph and list.

Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. This 
is built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is called 
Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a simple and 
impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps which come 
through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.

As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a 
part of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all 
that would be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The fact 
is is that the features of Universal Access are already documented so it is 
even possible for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the manual 
so to speak. It is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers need to 
acquaint themselves with new material every time a significant update is 
made to the iOS SDK so that they can review apps properly. So this idea that 
training is a big and costly issue is untrue. Training is par for the 
course.

Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last 
night, one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's 
main advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible 
that not every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe this 
is a very reasonable beginning to pursue.

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
to go ahead with any ideas at all.

Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of 
their life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a 
process and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what 
Apple has been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things 
are refined and changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin 
now. let's propose something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there 
we can work together for it to grow and change.

Just as a note, I also did suggest to Apple that they consider this as an 
opportunity for this community to be involved in the process. After all, who 
better to work with accessibility than those who are already proficient at 
it?

This would be an excellent opportunity for jobs for this community.

I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion going!…

Thanks All, have a great night / rest of your weekend!

Smiles,

Cara :)
On Aug 3, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com 
wrote:

I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple
will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there
is just too much subjective criteria at play.
1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is
accessible?

2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%?
90? 100%?

3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible,
then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the
blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Cara Quinn]

Christopher, thank you very much for these points!

Impossible is merely a state of mind. (And a dangerous one at that) The fact is 
that many things which were once thought to be impossible are now not only 
shown as possible but done every day.

In fact, a big reason Apple has been as innovative as it has is because Steve 
Jobs chose to think of possibility rather than impossibility.

Honestly, how many people here would have ever thought that any company would 
have ever made accessibility not only a part of their ongoing business 
practices but a very part of their company's DNA? I think I'd not be 
understating if I said most people here now who are devoted iPhone users would 
have maybe not thought of this actually happening, or at least not to the 
degree that Apple has made this happen… Yes?…

Sure, Apple is certainly a corporation and concerned with doing business, but 
Apple is also concerned with creating inspiring products as well as making 
those products and services accessible to as many people as possible. This is 
also good business. :)

Others have sighted money as a concern. I'd simply say let Apple worry about 
their finances. Let us concentrate on being clear on our needs and what we can 
contribute. K?

Again Christopher, thanks a bunch and talk with you soon!

Smiles,

Cara :)
On Aug 3, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:

Why do you assume I'm trying to one up you? I just don't agree with you. That 
doesn't mean I'm trying to one up you.

Crowd sourcing and publicly rating applications is fairly common place these 
days. It's not perfect, but if you get enough people on one side or the other 
it becomes pretty evident that an app is either accessible or it isn't. Of 
course, each person's rating is subjective but this will be evened out in the 
aggregate. Are you saying that the ratings in the App store or on Amazon are 
meaningless because each person's assessment is subjective? If that's what 
you're saying then I wouldn't agree. These ratings do have some value, although 
they may not be the be all and the end all. They are another data point.

An automated test suite for accessibility wouldn't be perfect but it would be a 
starting point. Again, it's another data point, and it could be improved over 
time. It could also be used in conjunction with other criteria, e.g. if you 
state your app is accessible in the App Store, and it isn't, then customers and 
Apple can demand refunds. There are automated test suites out there for 
accessibility, so this isn't a new concept. It is true that they aren't 
perfect, and you're going to get some false positives or some false negatives, 
but like I said, it's a starting point and something to work off of.

I agree that accessibility is hard and needs to be well thought out, but I'm 
not sure I see your alternative. It sounds like you're saying accessibility is 
impossible so we shouldn't even try. I don't agree with that at all, and I 
think discussions like this can help work out a solution and some answers.

I'm sorry, but I also thought your analogy was silly. Even if you'd said 
building a highway over the Atlantic between the US and Europe or building a 
highway over the Pacific between the US and Asia, I still would have thought it 
was a silly and pointless analogy. An analogy is good when there's actually a 
relationship between what you're discussing and the analogy you're making. In 
your case, you just picked something at random that sounds impossible. 
Accessibility and assessing accessibility is not impossible. It's hard, takes 
some thought and ultimately will be a lot of work, but Apple has a lot of 
resources and has demonstrated a commitment to accessibility, so I don't think 
it's impossible, but it will be if people don't brain storm and discuss 
different possibilities.

On 08/03/2013 11:31 PM, Joseph FreeTech wrote:
 Oh no! not this list too! Why does everyone on these lists have to try to
 one-up everyone else!
 
 I prefaced my statements by conveying the Asian continent as an extreme
 example. I think you understood what I meant.
 
 Your crowd sourcing idea would not work because we're right back to what I
 stated in regards to who's opinion is best?
 
 The automated testing suite would not work as it will undoubtedly yield tons
 of false positives and will give the developer an out as he or she will
 undoubtedly claim they ran their app through this suite and all looked fine.
 
 Because I've been here done that, I'm sorry but I'm now walking away from
 this type of one upping. I think most got my point in that simply demanding
 for accessibility is not easy and involves lots of thought and. I just
 wanted to convey a point which I'm sure all others got.
 
 Joseph
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:57 PM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Joseph, thanks for an excellent post!

My apologies if I misunderstood you.

Just so you know, I deal with User Experience / Human Factors professionally on 
a daily basis.

I say this with the utmost respect to you.

While you are presenting your perspective, it seems that rather than presenting 
any positive steps forward, you seem to simply be saying how other's ideas are 
failing.

It sounds like you have a very good understanding of human factors and UX so 
what would be a step you might propose to help us along in our journey to 
having a reasonably balanced App Store experience?

How would this look to you? I would very much enjoy reading your thoughts on 
this. Please. I would very much love it for you to feel comfortable 
contributing your own ideas to help move this discussion forward and share your 
own positive steps which we can consider.

This is what this list is about after all. We all need to feel good about 
sharing our ideas here.

Thank you so much!

Smiles,

Cara :)
On Aug 4, 2013, at 12:54 AM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm sorry but this is not accurate:

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
to go ahead with any ideas at all.

This is clearly not at all what I stated nor meant. I never presented this 
either or situation. I also never said anything about the need for 
perfection, nor did I say anything about various levels of accessibility 
being impossible.

My point was to convey that these matters are not as easy as many have so 
far asserted. If anyone here has ever developed any sort of cognitive 
assessment tool like a standardized test he or she will know exactly what I 
mean. There is a huge variability in the human experience and though one can 
derive averages, it is difficult to find common ground in these matters. 
Hence, different models of automobiles, apps that do the same thing, 
favorite X and Y, etc. Again, one can gather a bunch of voluounteers, but 
once the dream becomes work, you will lose a large percentage of your 
volunteers and will be forced to pay someone or leave the idea as just that. 
With that said, let's see how many people volunteer from this point on to 
demand accessibility from Apple.

Please understand that I'm not trying to incite anything, I'm only 
presenting a perspective many have not considered, but one that is always 
present and difficult to overcome. I belong to the same population of 
individuals as the rest of you, I'm only conveying that there's lots that 
has not been considered.

Joseph

- Original Message - 
From: Cara Quinn modelc...@gmail.com
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund


Hi Joseph and list.

Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. This 
is built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is called 
Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a simple and 
impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps which come 
through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.

As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a 
part of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all 
that would be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The fact 
is is that the features of Universal Access are already documented so it is 
even possible for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the manual 
so to speak. It is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers need to 
acquaint themselves with new material every time a significant update is 
made to the iOS SDK so that they can review apps properly. So this idea that 
training is a big and costly issue is untrue. Training is par for the 
course.

Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last 
night, one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's 
main advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible 
that not every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe this 
is a very reasonable beginning to pursue.

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
to go ahead with any ideas at all.

Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of 
their life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a 
process and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what 
Apple has been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things 
are refined and changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin 
now. let's propose something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there 
we can work together for it to grow and change.

Just as a note, I also

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi Cara,

Yup. I saw that.  It does help but, it still has what I think is an important 
drawback.  Its impossible to no where hints will just give you basic 
instructions or explanations, and when you will come across some tangible 
information that just isn't spoken by Voiceover with hints off.

This being the case, I have found myself just leaving hints on because, I don’t 
know what I could be missing. lol.  Its still funny to me after using IOS for 4 
years now, I never thought to turn hints on since the first day it was 
introduced to IOS.  Now I’m going through a bunch of my apps seeing what 
information I could have been missing. :).

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Aug 4, 2013, at 3:27 AM, Cara Quinn modelc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Joseph and list.
 
 Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. This 
 is built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is called 
 Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a simple and 
 impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps which come 
 through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.
 
 As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a 
 part of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all 
 that would be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The fact 
 is is that the features of Universal Access are already documented so it is 
 even possible for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the manual 
 so to speak. It is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers need to 
 acquaint themselves with new material every time a significant update is made 
 to the iOS SDK so that they can review apps properly. So this idea that 
 training is a big and costly issue is untrue. Training is par for the course.
 
 Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last 
 night, one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's main 
 advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible that 
 not every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe this is a 
 very reasonable beginning to pursue.
 
 This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
 if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
 to go ahead with any ideas at all.
 
 Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of 
 their life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a 
 process and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what 
 Apple has been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things are 
 refined and changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin now. 
 let's propose something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there we can 
 work together for it to grow and change.
 
 Just as a note, I also did suggest to Apple that they consider this as an 
 opportunity for this community to be involved in the process. After all, who 
 better to work with accessibility than those who are already proficient at it?
 
 This would be an excellent opportunity for jobs for this community.
 
 I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion going!…
 
 Thanks All, have a great night / rest of your weekend!
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 3, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple 
 will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there 
 is just too much subjective criteria at play.
 1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is 
 accessible?
 
 2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%? 
 90? 100%?
 
 3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible, 
 then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the 
 blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to 
 convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being 
 accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take 
 countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while 
 the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in 
 time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it 
 go. :)
 
 4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to 
 test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to 
 train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what 
 is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time, 
 effort, and tons of costs.
 
 5. What exactly is meant by Accessibility? Apple will absolutely have to 
 define and address this question before taking any first steps to achieve 
 it. There are still some

VoiceOver hints [was Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund]

[Christopher Chaltain]

You get that pregnant pause before the hints are spoken. I'll be curious 
if that helps alleviate your concerns over the VoiceOver verbosity or not.


BTW, I think you replied to the wrong message.  


On 08/04/2013 03:29 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

Hi Cara,

Yup. I saw that.  It does help but, it still has what I think is an important 
drawback.  Its impossible to no where hints will just give you basic 
instructions or explanations, and when you will come across some tangible 
information that just isn't spoken by Voiceover with hints off.

This being the case, I have found myself just leaving hints on because, I don’t 
know what I could be missing. lol.  Its still funny to me after using IOS for 4 
years now, I never thought to turn hints on since the first day it was 
introduced to IOS.  Now I’m going through a bunch of my apps seeing what 
information I could have been missing. :).

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Aug 4, 2013, at 3:27 AM, Cara Quinn modelc...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi Joseph and list.

Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. This is 
built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is called 
Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a simple and 
impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps which come 
through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.

As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a part 
of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all that would 
be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The fact is is that 
the features of Universal Access are already documented so it is even possible 
for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the manual so to speak. It 
is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers need to acquaint 
themselves with new material every time a significant update is made to the iOS 
SDK so that they can review apps properly. So this idea that training is a big 
and costly issue is untrue. Training is par for the course.

Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last night, 
one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's main 
advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible that not 
every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe this is a very 
reasonable beginning to pursue.

This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that if 
we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason to go 
ahead with any ideas at all.

Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of their 
life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a process 
and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what Apple has 
been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things are refined and 
changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin now. let's propose 
something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there we can work together 
for it to grow and change.

Just as a note, I also did suggest to Apple that they consider this as an 
opportunity for this community to be involved in the process. After all, who 
better to work with accessibility than those who are already proficient at it?

This would be an excellent opportunity for jobs for this community.

I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion going!…

Thanks All, have a great night / rest of your weekend!

Smiles,

Cara :)
On Aug 3, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:

I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple
will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there
is just too much subjective criteria at play.
1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is
accessible?

2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%?
90? 100%?

3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible,
then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the
blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to
convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being
accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take
countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while
the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in
time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it
go. :)

4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to
test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to
train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what
is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time,
effort, and tons of costs.

5. What

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Aman Singer]

Hello, Joseph. 
Let me also thank you for your civility. Now, very briefly, you write
 I believe I made it clear I was referring to an Apple Accessibility policy 
 that is inclusive of All apps and not just those on AppleVis.

You were perfectly clear, the only reason I raised applevis at all was because 
I wished to object to your view that subjectivity is an obstacle to the 
understanding of accessibility. Otherwise, applevis has nothing to do with what 
I was saying except that it shows that subjectivity of what is and is not 
accessible need not be a significant problem. 
As to the last part of your message, I agree that accessibility testing will 
cost money. This is why all I pursue would be refunds for inaccessible 
products. Though this is not perfect, it is fairly satisfactory and all that 
can be done through legal compultion, in my view. If anyone can get more from 
Aplle, I would be overjoyed, but I do not expect it.
Aman

  




On 2013-08-04, at 1:06 AM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Aman,
 
 Thank you for your polite response--always enjoy this type of interaction.
 
  I believe I made it clear I was referring to an Apple Accessibility policy 
 that is inclusive of All apps and not just those on AppleVis. (Smile).
 
 The Appleviz website relies on the relatively few who have and enjoy taking 
 the time to add comments. Let's say at most they have reviewed 500 apps 
 within recent years, well, as you know, there are 500,000+ in the apps 
 store.
 
 Again, all of your and other's suggestions sound like  100% common sense 
 proposals, but the wheels fall off when you actually implement something 
 like this in reality or on a global app store basis. This cost money, money, 
 money, and unless pushed into it, there aren't too many private sector 
 businesses that will make such accommodations without something in return as 
 is the case with Apple and their relationships with governmental public 
 sector businesses.
 
 I never used the word impossible to describe the current situation, it was 
 introduced into the conversation by another list member Christian something 
 or other.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Joseph
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:43 PM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 
 Hello, Joseph.
 I must respectfully disagree with you. To describe an application's 
 accessibility to VO users is so far from impossible that it is being done 
 every day on Applevis. You are certainly correct that there are some 
 subjective aspects to the evaluation, but if you look at the descriptions of 
 apps on Applevis, there is not really a significant problem in determining 
 what functions  do and don't work in an application. The problem with 
 Applevis is not that the information is bad but that there isn't enough of 
 it, too few apps are getting the treatment. If Apple wished to do this sort 
 of thing, there would be no difficulty in contracting it out to a particular 
 group of people, perhaps some of the people here. Remember that what is 
 asked for is a description, rather than an accessibility rating or, if such 
 a rating is needed, it should be secondary to the description.  Also 
 remember that, in this case as with many others, perfection shouldn't be 
 demanded and probably can't be attained in any case. The lack of perfection 
 is not something that should stop this sort of thing though, knowing Apple 
 and its policies, it well may. Aside from all that, though, as I said 
 before, a policy of refunds is probably the easiest way to go and is almost 
 certainly the cheapest. It is not optimal, but it is workable and the 
 infrastructure already exists for it.
 Aman
 
 
 On 2013-08-03, at 10:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple
 will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as 
 there
 is just too much subjective criteria at play.
 1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app 
 is
 accessible?
 
 2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%?
 90? 100%?
 
 3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is 
 accessible,
 then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the
 blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to
 convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being
 accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take
 countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, 
 while
 the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in
 time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it
 go. :)
 
 4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to
 test all of those apps

Re: VoiceOver hints [was Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund]

[Ricardo Walker]

Oh!

so I did.  haha. Sorry about that.  Yes.  The pause before the reading of the 
hints does help.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:37 AM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote:

 You get that pregnant pause before the hints are spoken. I'll be curious if 
 that helps alleviate your concerns over the VoiceOver verbosity or not.
 
 BTW, I think you replied to the wrong message.
   
 
 On 08/04/2013 03:29 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
 Hi Cara,
 
 Yup. I saw that.  It does help but, it still has what I think is an 
 important drawback.  Its impossible to no where hints will just give you 
 basic instructions or explanations, and when you will come across some 
 tangible information that just isn't spoken by Voiceover with hints off.
 
 This being the case, I have found myself just leaving hints on because, I 
 don’t know what I could be missing. lol.  Its still funny to me after using 
 IOS for 4 years now, I never thought to turn hints on since the first day it 
 was introduced to IOS.  Now I’m going through a bunch of my apps seeing what 
 information I could have been missing. :).
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info
 
 On Aug 4, 2013, at 3:27 AM, Cara Quinn modelc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Joseph and list.
 
 Actually there is already a function to assess accessibility of an app. 
 This is built into Apple's development environment, XCode. The function is 
 called Accessibility Inspector. So Apple does have the ability to get a 
 simple and impartial report on the status of the accessibility of all apps 
 which come through their reviewers on-route to the App Store.
 
 As for training for in-house staff, since the access technology has been a 
 part of iOS for some time now and is honestly not difficult to learn, all 
 that would be needed would be a single live class at the very most. The 
 fact is is that the features of Universal Access are already documented so 
 it is even possible for Apple to simply ask it's app reviewers to read the 
 manual so to speak. It is also a safe assumption to make that app reviewers 
 need to acquaint themselves with new material every time a significant 
 update is made to the iOS SDK so that they can review apps properly. So 
 this idea that training is a big and costly issue is untrue. Training is 
 par for the course.
 
 Lastly, as I already have sent a note to Apple Accessibility as of last 
 night, one of my proposals to them would be to simply review if an app's 
 main advertised features are accessible / usable with VO. So it is possible 
 that not every feature of every app is evaluated but for now, I believe 
 this is a very reasonable beginning to pursue.
 
 This gets back to another idea you mention below, Joseph. This idea is that 
 if we cannot figure out every detail perfectly now, then there is no reason 
 to go ahead with any ideas at all.
 
 Respectfully, this is like saying 'Since one has no idea how the rest of 
 their life will play out that one should not start living it.' :) This is a 
 process and one which we can have a hand in refining as we go. This is what 
 Apple has been doing since the Mac and iOS have become accessible. Things 
 are refined and changed as they go. I believe this is how we should begin 
 now. let's propose something simple that gets the ball rolling. From there 
 we can work together for it to grow and change.
 
 Just as a note, I also did suggest to Apple that they consider this as an 
 opportunity for this community to be involved in the process. After all, 
 who better to work with accessibility than those who are already proficient 
 at it?
 
 This would be an excellent opportunity for jobs for this community.
 
 I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion going!…
 
 Thanks All, have a great night / rest of your weekend!
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 3, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple
 will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there
 is just too much subjective criteria at play.
 1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is
 accessible?
 
 2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%?
 90? 100%?
 
 3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible,
 then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the
 blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to
 convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being
 accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take
 countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while
 the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in
 time for that single $3 refund. I've found

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Victor Gouveia]

I'm sorry, but where did he call you names?

I saw the little blurb about him calling your analogy silly, but certainly 
not you.


I thought his message was well thought out.

Is it getting to the point where people don't feel it's useful to discuss 
things anymore?



Victor Gouveia
Vice-President
Training Coordinator
VIP Tech
Phone: 1 (888) 737-1115
Fax: 1 (888) 737-1116
Work Main e-mail: vipt...@rogers.com
Work Training E-mail: viptrain...@rogers.com
Home E-mail: victor.gouv...@rogers.com
Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities 


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Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

HI. yes I agree with this post.  It's terribly hard to know what apps are and 
are not accessible and if they haven't been tried by another blind person there 
is no one to ask whether an app will work with voice over.  There are lots of 
iphone apps that have lite versions a person can try but with the mac it's 
really hard to know whether or not an app will work or not.  Some apps can be 
quite expensive and I personally don't have the money to take a risk and get 
stuck with an app I can't use.


Maria and Joe Chapman
bubbygirl1...@gmail.com



On 04/08/2013, at 2:43 PM, Aman Singer aman.sin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello, Joseph.
 I must respectfully disagree with you. To describe an application's 
 accessibility to VO users is so far from impossible that it is being done 
 every day on Applevis. You are certainly correct that there are some 
 subjective aspects to the evaluation, but if you look at the descriptions of 
 apps on Applevis, there is not really a significant problem in determining 
 what functions  do and don't work in an application. The problem with 
 Applevis is not that the information is bad but that there isn't enough of 
 it, too few apps are getting the treatment. If Apple wished to do this sort 
 of thing, there would be no difficulty in contracting it out to a particular 
 group of people, perhaps some of the people here. Remember that what is asked 
 for is a description, rather than an accessibility rating or, if such a 
 rating is needed, it should be secondary to the description.  Also remember 
 that, in this case as with many others, perfection shouldn't be demanded and 
 probably can't be attained in any case. The lack of perfection is not 
 something that should stop this sort of thing though, knowing Apple and its 
 policies, it well may. Aside from all that, though, as I said before, a 
 policy of refunds is probably the easiest way to go and is almost certainly 
 the cheapest. It is not optimal, but it is workable and the infrastructure 
 already exists for it. 
 Aman
 
 
 On 2013-08-03, at 10:25 PM, Joseph FreeTech joseph.freet...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple 
 will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there 
 is just too much subjective criteria at play.
 1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is 
 accessible?
 
 2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%? 
 90? 100%?
 
 3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible, 
 then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the 
 blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to 
 convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being 
 accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take 
 countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while 
 the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in 
 time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it 
 go. :)
 
 4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to 
 test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to 
 train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what 
 is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time, 
 effort, and tons of costs.
 
 5. What exactly is meant by Accessibility? Apple will absolutely have to 
 define and address this question before taking any first steps to achieve 
 it. There are still some holes in the ADA, and if the 600+ house and senate 
 members including the president had a tough time defining reasonable 
 accommodations, then it is likely a business will not want to get anywhere 
 near this issue unless forced to do so.
 
 6. In Windows 8, Microsoft has tried this accessibility tag in their Windows 
 store and many developers have chosen to list their apps as accessible even 
 though these aps cannot be used by a blind individual. Remember, 
 accessibility means lots more than just accessible to the blind. Again, 
 we're back to how will Apple implement such a system? Will they leave it in 
 the hands of the developer, or will they use their own team which accepts or 
 rejects submitted apps. If they do it in-house, this means training either 
 all of their employs or this means training a select group; if so, this will 
 have to be quite a large group.
 
 Don't get me wrong, I think Apple should start somewhere, but it will be 
 difficult to actually develop such a system rather than many of us making 
 demands that have not been really thought out. :) I guess its like asking, 
 why not just build a super highway across the Atlantic from the US to Asia 
 since there is tons of area to build? Extreme example? Yes, but I meant it 
 to be so to bring home my points regarding how to define, describe, and 
 implement

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free and 
trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am hesitant 
to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if they are 
accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis has tried them. 
I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's 
going to get expensive.
Warm regards and blessings 
Maria, Joe and FurBabies
Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com



On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com wrote:

 As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to support a 
 general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, rather 
 than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to abuse. 
   Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to let 
 developers know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all 
 requested refunds.   It might even improve accessibility. 
  
 Arnold Schmidt
 - Original Message -
 From: Cara Quinn
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 Sieghard and All,
 
 Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to write Apple 
 Accessibility to request that there be reasonable accommodation in place for 
 VoiceOver users to receive app refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also 
 suggest that Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
 
 I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in a positive and 
 decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this list and this is a very good 
 opportunity to make this point heard.
 
 This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO accessibility ahead 
 of time in the App Store and though we've not come to a set conclusion on the 
 best way to do this, having some indication that an app has been found to be 
 accessible to some degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it is a 
 completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, then it is more than 
 reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an app which is not accessible 
 to us with the available Apple universal access paradigm.
 
 the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
 
 accessibil...@apple.com
 
 These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when you write. I've 
 known some of them personally. They want to help though there may not be a 
 clear way of making this happen just yet. Just let them know this is 
 important though. Make your voice heard in a friendly way. they will listen 
 to you even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
 
 Thanks All, for your time.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover has 
 come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted in 
 connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which one 
 I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am in 
 Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar which are 
 both major carriers here. I contacted Track This support twice and never 
 received a reply.
  
 Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information 
 including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained how I 
 really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but that 
 unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover friendly and 
 there was no Light version offered which I could have tried first. I also 
 mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a week had not 
 received a reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even 
 waited to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to 
 make Voiceover improvements.
  
 I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app sales are 
 final, but that given the situation they would refund me the $6.72 or 
 whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also continued to give me links 
 as to their terms and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy 
 and that in the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it 
 was up to me to make sure I didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently 
 purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. It 
 was strange because all of this gave me the impression this person did not at 
 all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but on the other hand she 
 said they would give me a refund given the situation. According to what she 
 said I should see the refund back on my account within 48 hours and since 
 both apps were purchased using store credit

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[David Chittenden]

I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:

 HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free and 
 trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am 
 hesitant to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if 
 they are accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis has 
 tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 
 bucks? That's going to get expensive.
 Warm regards and blessings 
 Maria, Joe and FurBabies
 Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com wrote:
 
 As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to support a 
 general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, rather 
 than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to 
 abuse.   Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to let 
 developers know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all 
 requested refunds.   It might even improve accessibility. 
  
 Arnold Schmidt
 - Original Message -
 From: Cara Quinn
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 Sieghard and All,
 
 Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to write Apple 
 Accessibility to request that there be reasonable accommodation in place for 
 VoiceOver users to receive app refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also 
 suggest that Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
 
 I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in a positive 
 and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this list and this is a very 
 good opportunity to make this point heard.
 
 This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO accessibility 
 ahead of time in the App Store and though we've not come to a set conclusion 
 on the best way to do this, having some indication that an app has been 
 found to be accessible to some degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it 
 is a completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, then it is more 
 than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an app which is not 
 accessible to us with the available Apple universal access paradigm.
 
 the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
 
 accessibil...@apple.com
 
 These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when you write. 
 I've known some of them personally. They want to help though there may not 
 be a clear way of making this happen just yet. Just let them know this is 
 important though. Make your voice heard in a friendly way. they will listen 
 to you even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
 
 Thanks All, for your time.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover 
 has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted 
 in connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which 
 one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am in 
 Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar which are 
 both major carriers here. I contacted Track This support twice and never 
 received a reply.
  
 Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information 
 including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained how I 
 really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but that 
 unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover friendly and 
 there was no Light version offered which I could have tried first. I also 
 mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a week had not 
 received a reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even 
 waited to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to 
 make Voiceover improvements.
  
 I received a prompt reply in which the agent explained that all app sales 
 are final, but that given the situation they would refund me the $6.72 or 
 whatever it was for the 2 apps. However, she also continued to give me links 
 as to their terms and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy 
 and that in the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it 
 was up to me to make sure I didn’t turn on one-click ordering and accidently 
 purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I wanted. 
 It was strange because all

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Maria and Joe Chapman]

Hi.  I was thinking more along the lines of the app could be downloaded and is 
fully functional for a day unless you purchase a key on the mac or do an in app 
purchase on the iphone.  Some apps can be rather expensive, I would not be 
willing to buy a 10 or 20 dollar app I could not use and probably wouldn't 
unless I had heard it was at least usable in some way with voice over. How many 
apps I wonder are not discovered to be accessible because people are afraid to 
buy them in case they are not usable?


regards
Maria and crew from australia
email:
bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
check out 
www.95-the-mix.com
where we play lots of great music




On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
 occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free and 
 trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am 
 hesitant to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if 
 they are accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis has 
 tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 
 bucks? That's going to get expensive.
 Warm regards and blessings 
 Maria, Joe and FurBabies
 Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com wrote:
 
 As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to support a 
 general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, rather 
 than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to 
 abuse.   Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to 
 let developers know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all 
 requested refunds.   It might even improve accessibility. 
  
 Arnold Schmidt
 - Original Message -
 From: Cara Quinn
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 Sieghard and All,
 
 Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to write Apple 
 Accessibility to request that there be reasonable accommodation in place 
 for VoiceOver users to receive app refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd 
 also suggest that Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
 
 I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in a positive 
 and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this list and this is a very 
 good opportunity to make this point heard.
 
 This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO accessibility 
 ahead of time in the App Store and though we've not come to a set 
 conclusion on the best way to do this, having some indication that an app 
 has been found to be accessible to some degree with VoiceOver before we 
 purchase it is a completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, 
 then it is more than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an app 
 which is not accessible to us with the available Apple universal access 
 paradigm.
 
 the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
 
 accessibil...@apple.com
 
 These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when you write. 
 I've known some of them personally. They want to help though there may not 
 be a clear way of making this happen just yet. Just let them know this is 
 important though. Make your voice heard in a friendly way. they will listen 
 to you even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
 
 Thanks All, for your time.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover 
 has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted 
 in connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which 
 one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am 
 in Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar which 
 are both major carriers here. I contacted Track This support twice and 
 never received a reply.
  
 Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I provided all the information 
 including order numbers, purchase date, my Apple Id etc. I explained how I 
 really enjoyed my iPhone and the fantastic accessibility, but that 
 unfortunately these two apps I purchased were not voiceover friendly and 
 there was no Light version offered which I could have tried first. I also 
 mentioned that I contacted both developers and after almost a week had not 
 received

Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund

[Joanne Chua]

Hi,

This arguement reminds me of something along the line of...
lets go to the restarant, lets order some food, eat it, then decide if you like 
the food or not to determine if you pay for the food or not. Reason? well, 
because i'm blind, i have the rights to taste the food. If it is not suiting my 
taste, i'll decide not too pay...

Joanne Shuang Chua
Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
Send from my iPad

On 05/08/2013, at 8:42, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi.  I was thinking more along the lines of the app could be downloaded and 
 is fully functional for a day unless you purchase a key on the mac or do an 
 in app purchase on the iphone.  Some apps can be rather expensive, I would 
 not be willing to buy a 10 or 20 dollar app I could not use and probably 
 wouldn't unless I had heard it was at least usable in some way with voice 
 over. How many apps I wonder are not discovered to be accessible because 
 people are afraid to buy them in case they are not usable?
 
 
   regards
 Maria and crew from australia
 email:
 bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
 check out 
 www.95-the-mix.com
 where we play lots of great music
 
 
 
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I would rather not give Apple complete access to my phone just so they can 
 occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating apps.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 HI.  wouldn't it work better if all apps could be downloaded for free and 
 trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps I'd love to try but am 
 hesitant to download due to the fact that there is really no way to tell if 
 they are accessible or not unless someone on list or someone on applevis 
 has tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c app it's not that bad but if it's 5 
 or 10 bucks? That's going to get expensive.
 Warm regards and blessings 
 Maria, Joe and FurBabies
 Email:  iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt arno...@mindspring.com wrote:
 
 As I state in another message, I would be much more willing to support a 
 general refund policy, such as Google has, or at least use to have, rather 
 than an it won't work with VoiceOver policy.  That is just too open to 
 abuse.   Besides, a general refund policy would be an even better way to 
 let developers know if people didn't like their app, a bunch of them all 
 requested refunds.   It might even improve accessibility. 
  
 Arnold Schmidt
 - Original Message -
 From: Cara Quinn
 To: viphone@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM
 Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
 
 Sieghard and All,
 
 Let me encourage you and actually everyone on this list to write Apple 
 Accessibility to request that there be reasonable accommodation in place 
 for VoiceOver users to receive app refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd 
 also suggest that Sieghard's note be attached to your own.
 
 I believe this issue needs to be brought into the forefront in a positive 
 and decisive way. We are almost 2000 people on this list and this is a 
 very good opportunity to make this point heard.
 
 This discussion has come up before of being alerted of VO accessibility 
 ahead of time in the App Store and though we've not come to a set 
 conclusion on the best way to do this, having some indication that an app 
 has been found to be accessible to some degree with VoiceOver before we 
 purchase it is a completely reasonable request. If this is not possible, 
 then it is more than reasonable to ask for refunds if we cannot use an app 
 which is not accessible to us with the available Apple universal access 
 paradigm.
 
 the email address for Apple Accessibility is:
 
 accessibil...@apple.com
 
 These are very caring people so please keep this in mind when you write. 
 I've known some of them personally. They want to help though there may not 
 be a clear way of making this happen just yet. Just let them know this is 
 important though. Make your voice heard in a friendly way. they will 
 listen to you even if they do not know the best answer yet. :)
 
 Thanks All, for your time.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Cara :)
 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote:
 
 Hello List,
  
 Requesting a refund for an app which turns out not to work with Voiceover 
 has come up a few times and the iTunes Store support email has been posted 
 in connection with that. So I thought I post my recent experience with 
 contacting iTunes Store support via their email.
  
 I had bought a couple of package tracking apps in order to find out which 
 one I liked best. I have been using Track This which is awesome, but I am 
 in Canada and for some reason they don’t support Purolator and CanPar 
 which are both major carriers here. I contacted Track