[Vo]:A New Way to Achieve Nuclear Fusion
A New Way to Achieve Nuclear Fusion This would not possible without fibre optics to get the timing right of the electrical pulses. https://youtu.be/_bDXXWQxK38 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Orion is Down
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/apollo_10_commander_tom_stafford.jpg On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > Snoopy is safe. >
Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
Wow... When you say the colours faded do you mean the plate reverted to being completely black again (i.e. its over exposed state)? Harry On Sun., Nov. 27, 2022, 2:58 p.m. MSF, wrote: > > This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th > centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted the > same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A > purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was covered > with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate > would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. This no > doubt tantalized photographers with the idea of color photography, but the > effect would eventually fade and the exposure times and light intensity > requirements made that impractical. Further, there was no way to fix the > image. The same effect can be demonstrated with so-called printing-out > papers, silver chloride emulsions meant to be contact printed from > negatives without the need for chemical development. > > So, basically, this is a demonstration of one field of endeavor not paying > attention to developments (pun intended) in another. Besides, it's not nice > to second guess Goethe. > > MSF > > > > --- Original Message --- > On Saturday, November 26th, 2022 at 6:41 PM, H LV > wrote: > > This is a google english translation of a german article that was > published in December in 2021. > > The Ultraviolet Enlightenment > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/178aIZp1ts5J1HCvWuZCkdoDvwbzp8tm_xiPGdonvPM8/edit?usp=sharing > > (The original article is here > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physik-mehr/entdeckung-des-uv-die-ultraviolette-erleuchtung-17687221.html > ) > > It is about Goethe and Ritter in the early 1800s when Goethe encouraged > Ritter to look for invisible radiation beyond the violet > end of the spectrum given that Herschel had just discovered evidence of > radiation below the red end of the spectrum using a thermometer. > Ritter was eventually credited with the discovery of UV light using a > light sensitive paper. > > However,as the article explains he did another experiment which was > inspired by Goethe's concept of polarity but to this > day the results have been dismissed as an error. Goethe predicted that if > UV light darkened the photo chemical paper, then infrared light should > lighten the same paper. Ritter reported finding this to be the case but > because the chemical process is irreversible subsequent scientists > have insisted that the _observation_ of lightning must have been an error. > Until 2021 no one had even attempted to replicate this simple experiment, > but now there is evidence that Ritter was probably correct in his > observation. However, a mystery remains as to why the paper should be > lightened. > (one chemist speculates the silver atoms are being rearranged so their > reflectivity changes). > > I am posting this as another example of how some observations can be > prematurely rejected on the basis of opinion instead of a proper follow up > investigation. In this case the observation is more than 200 years old! > > Harry > > >
Re: [Vo]:Expert Proposes a Method For Telling if We All Live in a Computer Program : ScienceAlert
"Computer. End program" On Tue., Nov. 22, 2022, 5:25 p.m. Terry Blanton, wrote: > > https://www.sciencealert.com/expert-proposes-a-method-for-telling-if-we-all-live-in-a-computer-program > > > Can we falsify the existence of a simulated universe? >
[Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
This is a google english translation of a german article that was published in December in 2021. The Ultraviolet Enlightenment https://docs.google.com/document/d/178aIZp1ts5J1HCvWuZCkdoDvwbzp8tm_xiPGdonvPM8/edit?usp=sharing (The original article is here https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physik-mehr/entdeckung-des-uv-die-ultraviolette-erleuchtung-17687221.html ) It is about Goethe and Ritter in the early 1800s when Goethe encouraged Ritter to look for invisible radiation beyond the violet end of the spectrum given that Herschel had just discovered evidence of radiation below the red end of the spectrum using a thermometer. Ritter was eventually credited with the discovery of UV light using a light sensitive paper. However,as the article explains he did another experiment which was inspired by Goethe's concept of polarity but to this day the results have been dismissed as an error. Goethe predicted that if UV light darkened the photo chemical paper, then infrared light should lighten the same paper. Ritter reported finding this to be the case but because the chemical process is irreversible subsequent scientists have insisted that the _observation_ of lightning must have been an error. Until 2021 no one had even attempted to replicate this simple experiment, but now there is evidence that Ritter was probably correct in his observation. However, a mystery remains as to why the paper should be lightened. (one chemist speculates the silver atoms are being rearranged so their reflectivity changes). I am posting this as another example of how some observations can be prematurely rejected on the basis of opinion instead of a proper follow up investigation. In this case the observation is more than 200 years old! Harry
Re: [Vo]:Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810)
Two more books about Ritter and Goethe were published recently, but they are both in German. 1) Goethe, Ritter und die Polarität : Geschichte und Kontroversen. 2021 (Goethe, Ritter and the Polarity: History and Controversies) 2) Ultraviolett - Johann Wilhelm Ritters Werk und Goethes Beitrag - zur Geschichte einer Kooperation. 2021 (Ultraviolet - Johann Wilhelm Ritter's Work und Goethe's contribution - On the History of a Cooperation) Based on a google translation of a section of book (1) that was free online, it seems Ritter followed up his photochemical discovery of ultraviolet light with a photochemical investigation of infrared light but his latter observations were dismissed at the time as erroneous. Based on the principle of polarity he predicted infrared light would tend to lighten silver oxide paper in contrast with UV light which darkened the silver oxide paper. Since he predicted the paper would become lighter he started with partially exposed gray paper instead of unexposed white paper and he observed that IR light did lighten the gray paper. This experiment was just recently redone after more than 200 hundred years and it appears his observations were correct. Why this happens is not yet known. Harry On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:52 AM H LV wrote: > > I am going to the library today to get this book through an interlibrary > loan. (At over $200 it is too pricey to buy): > > _Key Texts of Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810) on the Science and Art of > Nature_ > > It is a translation of J. W. Ritter's work. I just learned about Ritter > last month while reading about Goethe. He died poor and young at 33. Ritter > is credited with the discovery of ultraviolet radiation about a year after > Herschel discovered infrared radiation. (Goethe suggested to Ritter that he > look for something beyond the violet.) > > I am looking forward to reading Ritter's essay: Physics as Art. > > Like many scientists (i.e. natural philosophers ) of his time he was > interested in electricity, galvanism and batteries. Apparently he performed > electrical tests on himself to learn about the electrical nature of the > nervous system. Some speculate the self-experimentation may have > contributed to his early death. > > Jocelyn Holland (who translated Ritter's work from german to english) says > of him: > Ritter writes that only through the presence of the observer can painting > become a complete embodiment of the artistic act. The observed act of > artistic creation in the medium of painting “summons” the observer to > “complete [the embodiment]” and “proclaims to him the beginning of a new > individual activity.” > > Wikipedia page on Ritter: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wilhelm_Ritter > > Harry >
Re: [Vo]:Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810)
More about Ritter's research from Brittannica: A pharmacist in Liegnitz, Silesia, from 1791 to 1795, Ritter studied medicine at the University of Jena, where he taught until he gained the patronage of the duke of Saxe–Gotha. In 1800, only months after the English chemist William Nicholson succeeded in decomposing water into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis, Ritter duplicated the experiment but arranged the electrodes so that he could collect the two gases separately. Soon thereafter he discovered the process of electroplating. In 1801 Ritter made the startling discovery that silver chloride, which decomposes in the presence of light, is more rapidly decomposed when exposed to the invisible, theretofore unknown radiation beyond the violet end of the spectrum. Ritter devoted most of his efforts to the study of electricity and electrochemistry. In 1801 he observed thermoelectric currents and anticipated the discovery of thermoelectricity by Thomas Johann Seebeck. Ritter invented the dry voltaic cell in 1802 and an electrical storage battery the following year. Harry On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:52 AM H LV wrote: > > I am going to the library today to get this book through an interlibrary > loan. (At over $200 it is too pricey to buy): > > _Key Texts of Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810) on the Science and Art of > Nature_ > > It is a translation of J. W. Ritter's work. I just learned about Ritter > last month while reading about Goethe. He died poor and young at 33. Ritter > is credited with the discovery of ultraviolet radiation about a year after > Herschel discovered infrared radiation. (Goethe suggested to Ritter that he > look for something beyond the violet.) > > I am looking forward to reading Ritter's essay: Physics as Art. > > Like many scientists (i.e. natural philosophers ) of his time he was > interested in electricity, galvanism and batteries. Apparently he performed > electrical tests on himself to learn about the electrical nature of the > nervous system. Some speculate the self-experimentation may have > contributed to his early death. > > Jocelyn Holland (who translated Ritter's work from german to english) says > of him: > Ritter writes that only through the presence of the observer can painting > become a complete embodiment of the artistic act. The observed act of > artistic creation in the medium of painting “summons” the observer to > “complete [the embodiment]” and “proclaims to him the beginning of a new > individual activity.” > > Wikipedia page on Ritter: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wilhelm_Ritter > > Harry >
[Vo]:Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810)
I am going to the library today to get this book through an interlibrary loan. (At over $200 it is too pricey to buy): _Key Texts of Johann Wilhelm Ritter (1776-1810) on the Science and Art of Nature_ It is a translation of J. W. Ritter's work. I just learned about Ritter last month while reading about Goethe. He died poor and young at 33. Ritter is credited with the discovery of ultraviolet radiation about a year after Herschel discovered infrared radiation. (Goethe suggested to Ritter that he look for something beyond the violet.) I am looking forward to reading Ritter's essay: Physics as Art. Like many scientists (i.e. natural philosophers ) of his time he was interested in electricity, galvanism and batteries. Apparently he performed electrical tests on himself to learn about the electrical nature of the nervous system. Some speculate the self-experimentation may have contributed to his early death. Jocelyn Holland (who translated Ritter's work from german to english) says of him: Ritter writes that only through the presence of the observer can painting become a complete embodiment of the artistic act. The observed act of artistic creation in the medium of painting “summons” the observer to “complete [the embodiment]” and “proclaims to him the beginning of a new individual activity.” Wikipedia page on Ritter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wilhelm_Ritter Harry
Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion is Back (there's just one problem)
Since she is respected astrophysicist with nearly 600 000 subscribers and probably many more followers this video could potentially make cold fusion research part of mainstream science. Harry On Sun., Oct. 9, 2022, 9:26 a.m. Jed Rothwell, wrote: > This video is not bad. But I posted one one complaint in the comment > section: > > "Hossenfelder says that no one was able to replicate several experiments. > Some of those were replicated. No one has tried to replicate the others." > > > My point is that if several people try to replicate an experiment but they > fail, that may indicate a problem in the experiment. But when no one tries, > that tells you nothing about the experiment. It tells you that cold fusion > is underfunded. >
Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion is Back (there's just one problem)
Sabine Hossenfelder is an astrophysicist who runs a "no nonsense" science channel. As she acknowledges in the video she is taking a risk talking about cold fusion because it is considered a reputation trap among physicists. Harry On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 1:55 PM H LV wrote: > "Cold Fusion is Back (there's just one problem)" > > In a new video Sabine Hossenfelder discusses cold fusion > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbzcYQVrTxQ > > Harry > >
[Vo]:Cold Fusion is Back (there's just one problem)
"Cold Fusion is Back (there's just one problem)" In a new video Sabine Hossenfelder discusses cold fusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbzcYQVrTxQ Harry
[Vo]:astronomers are freaking out over bizarre rectangle shaped rings in space
quote “The six-pointed blue structure is an artefact due to optical diffraction from the bright star WR140 in this #JWST MIRI image,” McCaughrean wrote on Twitter. “But red curvy-yet-boxy stuff is real, a series of shells around WR140. Actually in space. Around a star.” https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjk38p/ astronomers-are-freaking-out-over-bizarre-rectangle-shaped-rings-in-space
[Vo]:JWST reaction video ;-)
My God, it's full of stars! https://youtu.be/I0i-whGHf-Y Harry
Re: [Vo]:Hubble Red shift and CMB as reflections from an aether.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 4:28 PM Robin wrote: > In reply to H LV's message of Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:04:43 -0400: > Hi, > > 1) This is an interesting idea. > Thanks 2) Light bounces off particles anyway, regardless of whether or not people > believe this causes the red shift. Images > *are* blurry to some extent, however, if most of the scattering occurs > soon after the light is emitted, then from a > great distance the source will appear to be a point source anyway. > 3) Most of the scattering does happen locally, because there is a gradient > in the density of particles. Greatest near > stars, and decreasing into intergalactic space. > > If most of the redshift occurs near the source why does the redshift increase as the source gets further from us? Harry
Re: [Vo]:transmitted and reflected pulses in a medium
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 6:55 PM Robin wrote: > > > > When they drop the notion that information transfer speed is limited by > the speed of light (i.e. special relativity), > they may actually catch up with the rest of the intelligent races in the > galaxy. > > Almost no one actually travels through space. Most just use "holodecks" to > communicate with other star systems at FTL > speeds. > This obviates the need to go anywhere, because essentially unlimited > energy (mass-energy conversion) makes complete > recycling possible. That means that all these races are essentially self > sufficient. > Besides, why would you want to go to a distant planet, where you would > probably die from a disease to which you had no > immunity? > Such technology makes it possible to explore the galaxy from your living > room. Much as we now do by TV, but farther > afield, in 3D, and much more interesting than reruns of "I love Lucy". :) > > Do they use cloaked camera drones to watch us? Harry
[Vo]:Hubble Red shift and CMB as reflections from an aether.
When a wave pulse encounters a change in the density of a medium some of the energy of the pulse is transmitted and some of it is reflected. Suppose it is possible for a wave pulse to partially self-reflect by inducing a local change in the density of the medium as it travels through it. If this is possible then the difference between the cosmic microwave background (CMB) and the Hubble redshift would literally be a function of perspective. The CMB would be the reflected energy from our own local emanations, and the Hubble red shifted light from a distant galaxy would represent the energy lost as it is reflected back to the originating galaxy on its journey to us. This would mean the CMB is not an echo of the entire universe as it was in the past according to the expanding universe hypothesis. Rather the CMB contains a historical sequence of echoes from _our part_ of the universe. (I know the theory of special relativity says there is no need for light to have a medium or an aether, but then again no one has looked for reflections from an aether. Also reflections from the aether would not result in blurry images as is the case when the Hubble redshift is explained as light scattering off particles) Harry
[Vo]:transmitted and reflected pulses in a medium
When a medium at rest is moved by a wave pulse does the wave pulse create a locally small variation of density in the medium? If it does then wouldn't some of the energy of the wave pulse be reflected back to the source of the wave pulse? If this is true then perhaps something analogous can happen to light so that the observed CMB would be the echo of light from our own Sun and the redshift of a remote galaxy would be the result of light energy being reflected back to that galaxy. (According to the theory of special relativity this is a flawed analogy since it says no medium or aether is required for light, but as far as I know no experimental tests of special relativity have looked for reflections from the aether.) Harry
[Vo]:JWST Images Raise Questions about the Big Bang
This 9 minute video does a good job of explaining why the JWST images raise serious questions about the validity of the Big Bang. The youtuber speaks in a relaxed tone and appears to be more interested in getting closer to the truth rather than in taking sides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6G6IXrLSg0 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Did the Big Bang happen? - Sabine Hossenfelder
Looking back, sooner or later the universe always proves to be much bigger than what we have been taught. Harry On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:15 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > It's turtles all the way down. > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 1:39 PM H LV wrote: > >> A big bang, a big bounce, a black hole, a network, a collision of >> membranes, a gas of strings... >> >> She argues that all these attempts to explain the origin of the universe >> are creation myths expressed in the language of mathematics. That doesn't >> make them wrong, but it does make them _ascientific_. The virtue of the big >> bang theory is that it is the simplest explanation we know, but it is also >> probably wrong. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAVUvq6BE1E >> >> harry >> >
[Vo]:Max Planck quote
“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” -- Max Planck Source: The Observer (25 January 1931)
[Vo]:Did the Big Bang happen? - Sabine Hossenfelder
A big bang, a big bounce, a black hole, a network, a collision of membranes, a gas of strings... She argues that all these attempts to explain the origin of the universe are creation myths expressed in the language of mathematics. That doesn't make them wrong, but it does make them _ascientific_. The virtue of the big bang theory is that it is the simplest explanation we know, but it is also probably wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAVUvq6BE1E harry
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:The Big Bang and the JWST
The original tired light hypothesis was rejected as an explanation of the hubble red shift relation because it predicted more distant galaxies would appear fuzzier then we observe. The predicted the fuzziness was a consequence of scattering causing the red shift. However, perhaps a new version of the tired light hypothesis involving some new concepts could explain the hubble red shift relation. eg. what if light is instrinsically prone to loose energy with distance and the energy it gives up becomes something else like dark mater or dark energy? Harry On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 11:54 AM H LV wrote: > Eric Lerner argues the "unexpected" data from the JWST is expected in an > non-expanding universe. Of course if the universe is not expanding he also > says explaining the hubble redshift relation would require some new physics. > > Harry > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 7:32 PM Jones Beene wrote: > >> As Lerner admits, the CMB is the main thing which is holding the big bang >> theory together. >> >> Yet the 'experts' really can't explain exactly how CMB radiation, which >> is moving away from us at light-speed from a single point in time, manages >> to somehow magically be reflected back so as to be observed by us as a >> rather strong signal. >> >> Maybe CMB should not be observable in 3 space at all. >> >> IOW - it can be argued that the cosmic background is itself poorly >> understood and not the best feature with which to base important derivative >> theories on (like the big bang)... >> >> >> H LV wrote: >> >> >> Eric Lerner comments on the first data from the JWST: >> >> The Big Bang didn't happen >> What do the James Webb images really show? >> https://iai.tv/articles/the-big-bang-didnt-happen-auid-2215 >> >> >> Eric Lerner's claims are deflated in this article: >> >> https://www.cnet.com/science/space/no-james-webb-space-telescope-images-do-not-debunk-the-big-bang/ >> >> Harry >> >>
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:The Big Bang and the JWST
Eric Lerner argues the "unexpected" data from the JWST is expected in an non-expanding universe. Of course if the universe is not expanding he also says explaining the hubble redshift relation would require some new physics. Harry On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 7:32 PM Jones Beene wrote: > As Lerner admits, the CMB is the main thing which is holding the big bang > theory together. > > Yet the 'experts' really can't explain exactly how CMB radiation, which is > moving away from us at light-speed from a single point in time, manages to > somehow magically be reflected back so as to be observed by us as a rather > strong signal. > > Maybe CMB should not be observable in 3 space at all. > > IOW - it can be argued that the cosmic background is itself poorly > understood and not the best feature with which to base important derivative > theories on (like the big bang)... > > > H LV wrote: > > > Eric Lerner comments on the first data from the JWST: > > The Big Bang didn't happen > What do the James Webb images really show? > https://iai.tv/articles/the-big-bang-didnt-happen-auid-2215 > > > Eric Lerner's claims are deflated in this article: > > https://www.cnet.com/science/space/no-james-webb-space-telescope-images-do-not-debunk-the-big-bang/ > > Harry > >
[Vo]:The Big Bang and the JWST
Eric Lerner comments on the first data from the JWST: The Big Bang didn't happen What do the James Webb images really show? https://iai.tv/articles/the-big-bang-didnt-happen-auid-2215 Eric Lerner's claims are deflated in this article: https://www.cnet.com/science/space/no-james-webb-space-telescope-images-do-not-debunk-the-big-bang/ Harry
Re: [Vo]:weight and uniform motion on a horizontal surface
Galileo made the assumption when he argued for the equivalence of the experience being below deck on ship at rest vs below deck on ship in uniform motion. (see passage below). By omitting the rotation of the Earth, Galileo was able to formulate a practical rule. Newton later elevated the rule into a law of nature. >From a purely experimental standpoint without knowing anything about Newton's laws of mechanics or predicting the trajectory of an artillery shell, it is possible with precise enough measurements to invalidate Galileo's rule. I can't prove this, but I suspect Galiloe knew this might be a possibility, but at the time he was more interested in arguing that the rotation of earth did not lead to spurious predictions as was the contention of people who insisted the idea of a rotating Earth was absurd. "Shut yourself up with some friend in the main cabin below decks on some large ship, and have with you there some flies, butterflies, and other small flying animals. Have a large bowl of water with some fish in it; hang up a bottle that empties drop by drop into a wide vessel beneath it. With the ship standing still, observe carefully how the little animals fly with equal speed to all sides of the cabin. The fish swim indifferently in all directions; the drops fall into the vessel beneath; and, in throwing something to your friend, you need throw it no more strongly in one direction than another, the distances being equal; jumping with your feet together, you pass equal spaces in every direction. When you have observed all these things carefully (though doubtless when the ship is standing still everything must happen in this way), have the ship proceed with any speed you like, so long as the motion is uniform and not fluctuating this way and that. You will discover not the least change in all the effects named, nor could you tell from any of them whether the ship was moving or standing still. In jumping, you will pass on the floor the same spaces as before, nor will you make larger jumps toward the stern <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern> than toward the prow <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prow> even though the ship is moving quite rapidly, despite the fact that during the time that you are in the air the floor under you will be going in a direction opposite to your jump. In throwing something to your companion, you will need no more force to get it to him whether he is in the direction of the bow <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_(ship)> or the stern, with yourself situated opposite. The droplets will fall as before into the vessel beneath without dropping toward the stern, although while the drops are in the air the ship runs many spans. The fish in their water will swim toward the front of their bowl with no more effort than toward the back, and will go with equal ease to bait placed anywhere around the edges of the bowl. Finally the butterflies and flies will continue their flights indifferently toward every side, nor will it ever happen that they are concentrated toward the stern, as if tired out from keeping up with the course of the ship, from which they will have been separated during long intervals by keeping themselves in the air. And if smoke is made by burning some incense, it will be seen going up in the form of a little cloud, remaining still and moving no more toward one side than the other. The cause of all these correspondences of effects is the fact that the ship's motion is common to all the things contained in it, and to the air also. That is why I said you should be below decks; for if this took place above in the open air, which would not follow the course of the ship, more or less noticeable differences would be seen in some of the effects noted." *Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems*, translated by Stillman Drake <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stillman_Drake>, University of California Press, 1953, pp. 186 - 187 (Second Day). Harry On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 7:35 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > Lets assume the earth is not rotating. >> > > Will our assumption stop it from rotating? > > WWII Admiral Willis Lee was one of the world's top experts in artillery. > He would calculate battleship gun trajectories including the effects of the > earth's rotation. He would include so many factors that physicists and > other artillery experts said they couldn't keep up with him. He also won > battles. >
[Vo]:JWST data is challenging for Big Bang Cosmology
https://mindmatters.ai/2022/08/james-webb-space-telescope-shows-big-bang-didnt-happen-wait/ Harry
Re: [Vo]:weight and uniform motion on a horizontal surface
Lets assume the earth is not rotating. Harry On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 3:17 PM Robin wrote: > In reply to H LV's message of Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:38:42 -0400: > Hi, > [snip] > > You also need to take into consideration that objects in motion relative > to the Earth's surface will experience more or > less centrifugal force depending on their direction of motion relative to > the rotation of the planet. > All "stationary" objects actually experience a small centrifugal force, > that slightly reduces their true weight. > This varies with latitude, maximum at the equator, zero at the poles. > It's the primary reason that the Earth is not perfectly spherical. > > >Hey vorts, this is a question about weight. No advanced physics is > >involved. > >Suppose you have a surface with built in sensors so it will tell you the > >weight of an object placed anywhere on it. > >Assume the surface is flat and level and the acceleration due to gravity > is > >everywhere constant. > >Will the *registered* weight of the object be the same when the object is > >at rest with respect to the surface > >as when it is moving with uniform motion with respect to the surface? > > > >It seems to me that the object will effectively weigh slightly less > because > >it takes time for the object to exert its full weight > >on the sensors. The true or full weight can only be ascertained when the > >object is at rest with respect to > >the surface. > > > > > > > >Harry > If no one clicked on ads companies would stop paying for them. :) > >
[Vo]:weight and uniform motion on a horizontal surface
Hey vorts, this is a question about weight. No advanced physics is involved. Suppose you have a surface with built in sensors so it will tell you the weight of an object placed anywhere on it. Assume the surface is flat and level and the acceleration due to gravity is everywhere constant. Will the *registered* weight of the object be the same when the object is at rest with respect to the surface as when it is moving with uniform motion with respect to the surface? It seems to me that the object will effectively weigh slightly less because it takes time for the object to exert its full weight on the sensors. The true or full weight can only be ascertained when the object is at rest with respect to the surface. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Bearden dead and cheniere.org gone
Perhaps the designers are consciously or unconsciously incorporating an agenda into the search algorithm. Instead of finding those things you want to know, the algorithm steers you towards things that the designers think you need to know? harry On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 3:25 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > Chris Zell wrote: > > >> Google often does this in ignoring search terms, as happened to me >> recently in looking for a chain saw part. > > > Yes. I have a strange feeling Google has this problem more than it used > to. I wonder if they need to tweak their algorithm? The other day I was > looking for "fission reactor power density" and it kept giving me > references to energy density. Which is a completely different thing. Today > I was looking for "average monthly cost of natural gas" or "residential > monthly bill," but it kept telling me the cost per therm. > > > Regarding fission reactor power density, I finally found this, by the way: > > https://aris.iaea.org/sites/core.html > > I think one of the column headings is incorrect. It says: > > Average core power density > [kW/kgU] > > I think it should say: > > Average Core power density [kW/l] > > That makes more sense. Also, that is the heading for these same numbers > are in another table: > > https://aris.iaea.org/sites/power.html > >
[Vo]:OT: Journal of Universal Rejection
https://universalrejection.org/ ;-) Harry
[Vo]:Laser Cooling of Solids
Implementation of Laser-Induced Anti-Stokes Fluorescence Power Cooling of Ytterbium-Doped Silica Glass published May 2021 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.1c00116 Abstract Laser cooling of a solid is achieved when a coherent laser illuminates the material, and the heat is extracted by annihilation of phonons resulting in anti-Stokes fluorescence. Over the past year, net solid-state laser cooling was successfully demonstrated for the first time in Yb-doped silica glass in both bulk samples and fibers. Here, we report more than 6 K of cooling below the ambient temperature, which is the lowest temperature achieved in solid-state laser cooling of silica glass to date to the best of our knowledge. We present details on the experiment performed using a 20 W laser operating at a 1035 nm wavelength and temperature measurements using both a thermal camera and the differential luminescence thermometry technique. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cooling#Anti-Stokes_cooling Anti-Stokes cooling The idea for anti-Stokes cooling was first advanced by Pringsheim in 1929.[14] While Doppler cooling lowers the translational temperature of a sample, anti-Stokes cooling decreases the vibrational or phonon excitation of a medium. This is accomplished by pumping a substance with a laser beam from a low-lying energy state to a higher one with subsequent emission to an even lower-lying energy state. The principal condition for efficient cooling is that the anti-Stokes emission rate to the final state be significantly larger than that to other states as well as the nonradiative relaxation rate. Because vibrational or phonon energy can be many orders of magnitude larger than the energy associated with Doppler broadening, the efficiency of heat removal per laser photon expended for anti-Stokes cooling can be correspondingly larger than that for Doppler cooling. The anti-Stokes cooling effect was first demonstrated by Djeu and Whitney in CO2 gas.[15] The first anti-Stokes cooling in a solid was demonstrated by Epstein et al. in a ytterbium doped fluoride glass sample.[16]
Re: [Vo]:Laser Cooling -> Cooling with radiation
A video about laser cooling for the layman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAEAZaXhD_Y Harry On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 9:16 AM H LV wrote: > Laser cooling is the cooling of atoms via spontaneous emission. > In the video they say the laser radiation provides a damping force at a > particular frequency. > This is very close to how Count Rumford envisaged frigorific > radiation working. > > Is it such a leap to imagine this kind of cooling is experienced by > macroscopic bodies without the need for lasers, i.e. > with common radiation consisting of a broad spectrum of frequencies? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlBlK9O3M-4 > > Harry >
[Vo]:Laser Cooling -> Cooling with radiation
Laser cooling is the cooling of atoms via spontaneous emission. In the video they say the laser radiation provides a damping force at a particular frequency. This is very close to how Count Rumford envisaged frigorific radiation working. Is it such a leap to imagine this kind of cooling is experienced by macroscopic bodies without the need for lasers, i.e. with common radiation consisting of a broad spectrum of frequencies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlBlK9O3M-4 Harry
[Vo]:OT: Hegel
A digestible introduction to Hegel's philosophy from the School of Life channel. 7 minutes "The German philosopher Hegel believed that strange and alien bits of history have much to teach us. He believed story and civilisation do not move in a straight line, so important ideas and attitudes get left behind." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JGE3lhuNo Harry
Re: [Vo]:laser spectral linewidth is classical-physics phenomenon
On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 9:20 AM H LV wrote: > > New research shows that laser spectral linewidth is classical-physics > phenomenon > > https://phys.org/news/2020-07-laser-spectral-linewidth-classical-physics-phenomenon.html > quote > "As we have explained in this study, there is a simple, easy-to-understand > derivation of the laser spectral linewidth, and the underlying classical > physics proves the quantum-physics attempt of explaining the laser spectral > linewidth hopelessly incorrect. This result has fundamental consequences > for quantum physics." end quote > > Perhaps this points to a new kind of physics which is a synthesis of > classical and quantum physics. > > Harry > > In other words some aspects of physics are definitely local and while others are definitely non-local. Harry
[Vo]:laser spectral linewidth is classical-physics phenomenon
New research shows that laser spectral linewidth is classical-physics phenomenon https://phys.org/news/2020-07-laser-spectral-linewidth-classical-physics-phenomenon.html quote "As we have explained in this study, there is a simple, easy-to-understand derivation of the laser spectral linewidth, and the underlying classical physics proves the quantum-physics attempt of explaining the laser spectral linewidth hopelessly incorrect. This result has fundamental consequences for quantum physics." end quote Perhaps this points to a new kind of physics which is a synthesis of classical and quantum physics. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
Time is absolute In quantum mechanics like it is in Newtonian mechanics. However, since Newtonian mechanics does not allow for non-locality, it could be that the Newtonian sense of absolute time (N-Time) differs subtley from the Quantum Mechanical sense of absolute time (Q-Time). Perhaps the hidden variable is some form of information that resides in Q-Time that is not present in N-Time. Harry On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 3:14 PM Vibrator ! wrote: > > here is an example > > Absorption and Stimulated Emission by a Thin Slab Obeying the Lorentz > > Oscillator Model > > It's a quantitative formulation from classical first principles, sans > Schrodinger.. whereas the wave equation approximates the time evolution of > the wavefunction; you could describe a stimulated emission / absorption mode > as playing the predictability of wavefunction's evolution by constantly > resetting it at a fixed freq.. or you could probably describe the behaviour > in terms of QED and Feynman diagrams too i expect, all complimentarily w/o > conflict. You can describe orbital transition energies classically / > relativistically, or Lenz's law in terms of relativistic self-interaction of > a current loop invoking length contraction / time dilation, or in terms of > time-conservation of ambient quantum momentum, charge and energy.. the whole > point about zombie-cat-boxes being that they're an over-extrapolated > conclusion from what is only a formal approximation; atoms and photons are > obviously real, but is the wavefunction? So there's no real dichotomy.. all > roads lead to Rome, we know the SM's incomplete and we're not seeing all the > pieces yet, but the realism / objectivism debate is divided along more > fundamental lines on the nature of causal determinism and the outstanding > possibility (if not logical prerequisite) of non-local hidden variables.. > which in turn segues into philosophical debate re. distinctions between > 'indeterminability' as an inevitable consequence of conservation and finite > nature of quantum information (ie. per Zeilinger et al), versus the > nihilistic anarchy of objective indeterminism; you can guess which side of > the fence i'm on (tho not a Bohm fanatic; pilot waves or some variation, > perhaps.. but his later metaphysics stuff i don't subscribe to). > > The classic DSE using an electron gun and phosphor-plated screen has to > remain the benchmark gold-standard for demonstrating the limits of classical > physics though - ie. it cannot explain how particles / waves self-interact > even when their transits are separated out in time. If not for this singular > crazy (dumbfounding!) result, we wouldn't be in a situation where most > physicists are ready to accept such an oxymoronic imposition as 'acausal > determinants'.. but in for a penny, in for a pound eh.. > >
Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
Did Boscovich subscribe to a wave or a particle view of light? I wonder if electrons are "elementary points" and protons are "first order particles" in Boscosvich's scheme. https://youtu.be/w1vi0yk7BvU?t=248 harry On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 8:28 AM ROGER ANDERTON wrote: > Also > > (i) Boscovich theory led to Quantum theory -> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1vi0yk7BvU > > > (ii) Einstein working from Boscovich theory -> > https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/2197/1/012002/meta > > > So progression from 18th century theory of Boscovich to modern physics > > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "H LV" > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Sent: Friday, 29 Apr, 22 At 13:19 > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics > > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:44 PM Vibrator ! wrote: > >> > I have been doing more reading about the history of stimulated >> > emission. Einstein formally introduced a quantum version of the concept >> in >> > 1917. >> > Therefore you might think that it is only possible in a quantum >> theoretical >> > context. However, subsequent mathematical work has shown that a form of >> > stimulated emission can also arise in a classical (pre-quantum) setting >> > when a suitable model of the atom is used. >> >> The key point about stimulated emission is that it exploits the >> suspension of superposition exclusion to enable an aggregate system to >> cohere under a unitary wavefuntion; the corollary effect being coherent >> absorption, such that the initial plasma system can be classically >> described right up to the population inversion: from which point all >> electrons are bouncing between peak energy and stable bottom, emitting and >> absorbing essentially the same photons in sync.. >> >> ..so the quantum / classical threshold there is Pauli exclusion; the >> spontaneous photomultiplication resulting from collective coherence of the >> electron population is a pretty fundamental kind of 'resonance', not your >> average harmonic oscillator. >> >> On this key point about coherent absorption as well as emission, see >> Green at al "Limiting photovoltaic monochromatic light conversion >> efficiency" 2001, noting that in PV cells for which recombination is mainly >> radiative, a stimulated emission regime could take efficiency arbitrarily >> close to the Carnot limit; his team down in Oz are currently up to ~70% - >> again, for monochromatic (basically laser) light - with increasing >> applications in ie. wireless power transmission, electrical isolation / >> firewalling etc., and obvs much greater range (albeit limited to LoS) than >> classical inductive transmission techniques. >> >> A stimulated emission mode / regime is an inherently quantum-classical >> system, a unique means of corralling quantum systems distinct from Faraday >> and Maxwell et al; the system's propensity to begin lasing a direct >> consequence of the quantisation of energy & momentum: in the tensioned >> 'population inversion' state, ideally at least, a single photon of further >> input energy will inevitably trigger a cascade of absorption and emission >> because there's nowhere else for this conserved quantised energy to go, ie. >> further input energy catalyses a cyclic phase transition between high and >> low-energy states, because the transitions are quantised, and because a >> whole bunch of fermions are behaving as a kind of extended quasi-boson, >> holding the same quantum-energy states at the same time. >> >> It's that force-feedback dynamic, like a turbine, generating this >> low-entropy livewire state of perfect photoelectric synchrony.. coherent >> emission AND absorption, en masse.. >> >> On a bit of a tangent perhaps, but in his later years GC Huth posited >> that the retinal cells of the fovea may form a kind of phase-conjugate >> mirror, which may have thought-provoking implications for ie. the nature of >> eye contact between sentients, optic nerves essentially being extensions of >> cortex: what if electrons in remote rhodopsin discs are entangled by the >> same photons? 'A twinkle in the eye'.. 'windows on the soul'.. (woo-wavy >> hands) >> > > Interesting read. > Did you read Bill's post? There are many classical systems which exhibit > stimulated emission which don't depend on quantum theory. Radiation > theorists of the second half of the 19th century appeared to dislike the > notion of anything resembling stimulated or induced emission even though it > did not violate the laws of physics. Perhaps the concept of stimulated or > induced emission was in conflict with Victorian sensibilities. > > here is an example > Absorption and Stimulated Emission by a Thin Slab Obeying the Lorentz > Oscillator Model > https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.7567/1347-4065/ab2cc6 > > Harry > >
Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:44 PM Vibrator ! wrote: > > I have been doing more reading about the history of stimulated > > emission. Einstein formally introduced a quantum version of the concept > in > > 1917. > > Therefore you might think that it is only possible in a quantum > theoretical > > context. However, subsequent mathematical work has shown that a form of > > stimulated emission can also arise in a classical (pre-quantum) setting > > when a suitable model of the atom is used. > > The key point about stimulated emission is that it exploits the suspension > of superposition exclusion to enable an aggregate system to cohere under a > unitary wavefuntion; the corollary effect being coherent absorption, such > that the initial plasma system can be classically described right up to the > population inversion: from which point all electrons are bouncing between > peak energy and stable bottom, emitting and absorbing essentially the same > photons in sync.. > > ..so the quantum / classical threshold there is Pauli exclusion; the > spontaneous photomultiplication resulting from collective coherence of the > electron population is a pretty fundamental kind of 'resonance', not your > average harmonic oscillator. > > On this key point about coherent absorption as well as emission, see Green > at al "Limiting photovoltaic monochromatic light conversion efficiency" > 2001, noting that in PV cells for which recombination is mainly radiative, > a stimulated emission regime could take efficiency arbitrarily close to the > Carnot limit; his team down in Oz are currently up to ~70% - again, for > monochromatic (basically laser) light - with increasing applications in ie. > wireless power transmission, electrical isolation / firewalling etc., and > obvs much greater range (albeit limited to LoS) than classical inductive > transmission techniques. > > A stimulated emission mode / regime is an inherently quantum-classical > system, a unique means of corralling quantum systems distinct from Faraday > and Maxwell et al; the system's propensity to begin lasing a direct > consequence of the quantisation of energy & momentum: in the tensioned > 'population inversion' state, ideally at least, a single photon of further > input energy will inevitably trigger a cascade of absorption and emission > because there's nowhere else for this conserved quantised energy to go, ie. > further input energy catalyses a cyclic phase transition between high and > low-energy states, because the transitions are quantised, and because a > whole bunch of fermions are behaving as a kind of extended quasi-boson, > holding the same quantum-energy states at the same time. > > It's that force-feedback dynamic, like a turbine, generating this > low-entropy livewire state of perfect photoelectric synchrony.. coherent > emission AND absorption, en masse.. > > On a bit of a tangent perhaps, but in his later years GC Huth posited that > the retinal cells of the fovea may form a kind of phase-conjugate mirror, > which may have thought-provoking implications for ie. the nature of eye > contact between sentients, optic nerves essentially being extensions of > cortex: what if electrons in remote rhodopsin discs are entangled by the > same photons? 'A twinkle in the eye'.. 'windows on the soul'.. (woo-wavy > hands) > Interesting read. Did you read Bill's post? There are many classical systems which exhibit stimulated emission which don't depend on quantum theory. Radiation theorists of the second half of the 19th century appeared to dislike the notion of anything resembling stimulated or induced emission even though it did not violate the laws of physics. Perhaps the concept of stimulated or induced emission was in conflict with Victorian sensibilities. here is an example Absorption and Stimulated Emission by a Thin Slab Obeying the Lorentz Oscillator Model https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.7567/1347-4065/ab2cc6 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 2:42 AM William Beaty wrote: > On Wed, 27 Apr 2022, H LV wrote: > > > I have been doing more reading about the history of stimulated > > emission. Einstein formally introduced a quantum version of the concept > in > > 1917. > > "STIMULATED EMISSION!" Oh man don't even get me started. (Too late!) > Saying the words Stimulated Emission, that's like wearing a Susquehanna > hat in an Abbott and Costello bit, and then saying "Niagara Falls" > ...slowly I turned, step by step, INCH BY INCH. > > A very simple classical analog of Stimulated Emission (circuit-based > stimulated emission) ...seems to have been missed by everyone. It's a > part of the "missing physics" of EM wave-absorption by atoms, photon- > destruction, Einstein's fundamental mistakes about photoelectric effect, > as well as being part of the odd "energy-sucking" effects seen with short > resonant antennas. All these topics constitute a single subject, and, > having been missed by Classical physics textbooks, are declared to be > "QM-only phenomena" when they crop up in various places. > > OK, first say we have a classical EM oscillator (a tank circuit hanging in > space,) and it's slowly emitting a small amount of radio waves. Is there > a way to force it to suddenly dump all of its stored energy as a huge > blast of EM radiation? > > Certainly. It's dead-simple stuff. Should be part of every EM textbook. > > But it's not. > > Instead, Stimulated Emission is treated as some rare and unique, QM-only > process, rather than a normal part of basic radio-science. (Similar > treatment is given to the weird behavior of electrically-small resonant > antennas: ignored, except when it crops up as "virtual photon" effects > with atomic resonance, narrow-linewidth photon absorption, > nearfield/evanescent "photon tunneling," etc.) > > I found this paper from 1987 but it is not open access. --- https://opg.optica.org/josab/abstract.cfm?uri=josab-4-1-78 Classical stimulated emission Benjamin Fain and Peter W. Milonni Abstract Stimulated emission is formulated in completely classical terms and is shown to occur in general only in nonlinear systems. Our approach is based on the frequency-dependent susceptibility, which in both the classical and quantum-mechanical descriptions is the main characteristic determining whether there is absorption or stimulated emission. By using Bom’s correspondence rule, we derive an expression for the lowest-order quantum correction to the classical susceptibility. - I want to revisit Rayleigh and Jeans famous classical calculation for the spectral energy distribution from a blackbody that produced the ultraviolet catastrophe. When doing their calculation they required that the electric field on the cavity wall must be zero everywhere for all frequencies. Since the calculation resulted in a physically unrealistic prediction of the spectral energy distribution did it occur to them that the boundary condition was physically unrealistic? How would the calculation change if the electric field were allowed to be frequency dependent? This is a conventional but detailed presentation of Rayleigh and Jeans law for blackbody radiation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCfPQLVzus4 Harry > Put bluntly, Stimulated Emission works at DC, and obviously applies to > all capacitors. > > If we have a charged capacitor, we can connect it to a resistor, and > remove its energy according to RC time-constant. Or, we can short it out, > and the much shorter RC-constant then depends on the capacitor's internal > impedance, and the micro-ohms of wire resistance (ignoring for the moment > any wave-emission and LC effects.) > > > Or instead, we can force that capacitor to dump out its energy at ANY fast > rate desired, even many orders faster than just shorting it out. > > Simply hook it up to a high-amps constant-current supply. > > But hook it up backwards. > > Before the backwards-connected capacitor can begin to be "charged" by > conneting it to this CC supply, first it has to be discharged to zero > (where the joules in the capacitor are then EMITTED, and they must move > out of the capacitor and into the CC supply.) And clearly we can > discharge this capacitor at ANY rate desired, proportional to the > current-output of the backwards-connected CC supply. > > The discharge-time can easily be orders shorter than any conceivable > natural RC-constant. (The capacitor might possess micro-ohms of internal > resistance, and if it's simply being shorted, have a very short RC time > constant for discharge. But if we apply a huge backwards current, we can > discharge it hundreds of times f
Re: [Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 2:42 AM William Beaty wrote: > On Wed, 27 Apr 2022, H LV wrote: > > > I have been doing more reading about the history of stimulated > > emission. Einstein formally introduced a quantum version of the concept > in > > 1917. > > "STIMULATED EMISSION!" Oh man don't even get me started. (Too late!) > Saying the words Stimulated Emission, that's like wearing a Susquehanna > hat in an Abbott and Costello bit, and then saying "Niagara Falls" > ...slowly I turned, step by step, INCH BY INCH. > > I had to look up those references. :-) Susquehanna Hat Co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THZV5g1CNZM The Three Stooges - Slowly I Turned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYP1OBZfFK0 > >
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]: small hydrogen
Jones, I looked quickly at the patent by Haisch and Moddel but could not find anything about cooling. However, the authors of this paper, ttps://arxiv.org/abs/0910.5893 experimentally investigated the claims of Haisch and Moddel in section 2.3.2. They tried to find alternative explanations for the observed emissions. They ruled out cooling caused by the Joule-Thompson effect as a possible explanation. Harry On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 5:12 PM Jones Beene wrote: > Harry - perhaps you should have a look at the work and patents of Haisch > and Moddel on the Lamb shift mechanism using hydrogen or helium in Casimir > cavities. > > The dynamical Casimir effect can be either positive or negative and Lamb > shift photons would be cold. IIRC there was a measured cooling effect in > some tests - not heating - which is what they wanted. > > H LV wrote: > > Now if energy levels below the ground state exist for a hydrogen atom then > it may be possible to stimulate the electron-proton pair into this > hypo-state, by exposing them to radiation which corresponds to the energy > of the photon the pair is expected to release. > > > Harry > > >
[Vo]:Stimulated emission and Pre-Quantum Physics
I have been doing more reading about the history of stimulated emission. Einstein formally introduced a quantum version of the concept in 1917. Therefore you might think that it is only possible in a quantum theoretical context. However, subsequent mathematical work has shown that a form of stimulated emission can also arise in a classical (pre-quantum) setting when a suitable model of the atom is used. Also, it seems to me the concept of stimulated emission represents a revival of Count Rumford's cooling or frigorific radiation but under a different name. The classical physicists who developed radiation theory from the second half the 19th century onwards were ideologically opposed to Rumford's concept of cooling radiation, because at the time there were no unambiguous empirical reasons to accept or reject the concept. However, I am starting to wonder if this ideological opposition to cooling radiation contributed to the "ultraviolet catastrophe" which happened when classical physicists failed to adequately explain the blackbody radiation curve. If that is the case then perhaps Planck's ad hoc introduction of "quanta" could have been avoided if the possibility of stimulated emission or cooling radiation were incorporated into classical accounts of blackbody radiation from the outset. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]: ?small hydrogen
I think I have posted this before, but Einstein was also able to derive E=mc^2 without recourse to his theory of special relativity. Max Born presented this alternate derivation in his book Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Here is the proof: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QmOS5X3GR95t1rjr-SJQGVHun2_vykE5jDOVYc18La8/edit?usp=sharing Harry On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 3:23 PM Robin wrote: > In reply to Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:25:49 +0200: > Hi Jürg, > > If E=mc^2 is wrong, then perhaps you should write the major nuclear > powers, and explain to them why their bombs don't > work. ;) > > >Andrew, > > > > > >I could give you a very long list. First problem: The Dirac equation > >itself is only working for fields and never for mass. The inclusion of > >the relativistic mass simply is an error made by a mathematician with no > >clue of physics. > > > >The Einstein equation (E=mc^2) has been guessed from the Poincaré > >equation dm= E/c^2 . But Einstein did misunderstand this (Poincaré) > >conclusion as it only works for radiation fields not for static fields. > >So the Einstein and later the Dirac equation are plain nonsense. There > >are other more severe reasons why the Einstein equation fails. I'm just > >finishing a paper about this. > If no one clicked on ads companies would stop paying for them. :) > >
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]: small hydrogen
I was thinking about LASERS (Light amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) and it occurred to me that the notion of cooling radiation is already present in quantum theory, but it is disguised as "stimulated emission" in order to respect the mid 19th century doctrine that cooling radiation is nothing more than a fairy tale. Now if energy levels below the ground state exist for a hydrogen atom then it may be possible to stimulate the electron-proton pair into this hypo-state, by exposing them to radiation which corresponds to the energy of the photon the pair is expected to release. Harry On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 3:23 PM Jones Beene wrote: > > On the possibility of "dense helium" - shall we call it the "alpharino" ? > > Helium, unlike hydrogen, will not diffuse through metals - so long as the > metal is nonporous. The first step in densification is (probably) > diffusion... but that problem may not be the end-of-story. > > Raney nickel for instance is porous enough to pass helium and is also is > catalytic - as in the hydrino world of Randell Mills and his Rydberg > values. If Va'vra is right about helium shrinkage then a few possibilities > are opened up in the search for how that feat can be accomplished. > > An interesting experiment would simply look for anomalous heat as helium > is pumped through a Raney nickel membrane. > > > > HLV wrote: > > A simple argument that small hydrogen may exist > > Physics Letters B Volume 794, 10 July 2019, Pages 130-134 > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269319303624 > > > Thanks for posting this. One curious observation is that there are a few > other atoms besides hydrogen which may 'densify' : Presumably the dense > version would provide anomalous heat. > > Quote "Our calculation also shows that other fully ionized “small-*Z* > atoms” can form small-radius atoms... This would create atoms, where one > electron is trapped on a small radius, effectively shielding one proton > charge of the nucleus,.." > > Comment/question: Doesn't this finding open up the possibility for > extracting anomalous heat from Helium? > > There could be secondary advantages to using Helium over H - due to > inertness leading to ability to reuse the gas over and over ... > > Is there any indication of a catalyst for forming dense helium ?? > > > > I don't know, but I have begun to wonder if frigorific radiation could > play a role in forming such atoms. > Also, for atoms below the ground state, I propose the term depressed atom. > This would compliment the term excited atom for atoms above the ground > state. > > Harry >
Re: [Vo]:A simpler test
What do you mean by the Earth's relative charge? Does it have net positive or negative charge relative to deep space? Harry On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 9:50 AM Chris Zell wrote: > Could there be a way to generate energy by ‘transmitting away’ the earth’s > relative charge into neutral space? Using something similar to this method? > > > > *From:* H LV > *Sent:* Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:33 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:A simpler test > > > > Update... > > I haven't done any experiments yet, but I have refined my thinking about > the nature of cooling or frigorific radiation. > > Instead of striving for extremely low temperatures, I recently realised it > should be possible to look for cooling radiation between bodies which have > a large relative temperature difference. > > Also I was worried that if frigorific radiation were real then we should > readily detect a cooling effect on our eyes or instruments every time > a telescope is aimed into the cold depths of space. Does the fact that no > one has reported such a cooling effect mean frigorific radiation doesn't > exist. Not necessarily. Such a conclusion is based on the assumption that > when a concentrator of a given size focuses cooling radiation from a colder > body the effective cooling power increases as the temperature of the colder > body decreases in the same way as the effective heating power of a hotter > body increases as the temperature of the hotter body increases. > > However, if cooling power does not scale like heating power, then using a > thermometer to detect cooling from radiation from deep space at 3 degree > Kelvin will probably require a concentrator (i.e. a telescope) that is > much larger than any current or planned telescope. > > Harry > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 9:18 PM H LV wrote: > > Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of > revealing cooling radiation if it existed. > > eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three > secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument > room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first few > two photos on this page: > > http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk%2Fteaching%2Fphy217%2Ftelescopes%2Fphy217_tel_coude.html=05%7C01%7CChrisZell%40wetmtv.com%7C6c40de11cfcc42272b5308da2546fc60%7C9e5488e2e83844f6886cc7608242767e%7C0%7C0%7C637863284070654675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=Sx9LB61KIIrzYTh0HTFHENF3vzd6vQPnM%2BCbe11lLh4%3D=0> > > This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific > radiation it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam > in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling > sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific > radiation is not real. > > > Harry > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF wrote: > > > > Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it. > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF > wrote: > > > > > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the > acquisition and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this > test. The double parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved > or disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a > radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other > focus. At least that's my opinion of it. > > > > > > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists. > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV hveeder...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for > cooling > > > > > > > > radiation. > > > > > > > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the > > > > > > > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located > > > > > > > > at the vertex of the cone. > > > > > > > > See diagram: > > > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ht
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:small hydrogen
On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 11:26 AM Jones Beene wrote: > HLV wrote: > > A simple argument that small hydrogen may exist > > Physics Letters B Volume 794, 10 July 2019, Pages 130-134 > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269319303624 > > > Thanks for posting this. One curious observation is that there are a few > other atoms besides hydrogen which may 'densify' : Presumably the dense > version would provide anomalous heat. > > Quote "Our calculation also shows that other fully ionized “small-*Z* > atoms” can form small-radius atoms... This would create atoms, where one > electron is trapped on a small radius, effectively shielding one proton > charge of the nucleus,.." > > Comment/question: Doesn't this finding open up the possibility for > extracting anomalous heat from Helium? > > There could be secondary advantages to using Helium over H - due to > inertness leading to ability to reuse the gas over and over ... > > Is there any indication of a catalyst for forming dense helium ?? > I don't know, but I have begun to wonder if frigorific radiation could play a role in forming such atoms. Also, for atoms below the ground state, I propose the term depressed atom. This would compliment the term excited atom for atoms above the ground state. Harry
Re: [Vo]:A simpler test
Update... I haven't done any experiments yet, but I have refined my thinking about the nature of cooling or frigorific radiation. Instead of striving for extremely low temperatures, I recently realised it should be possible to look for cooling radiation between bodies which have a large relative temperature difference. Also I was worried that if frigorific radiation were real then we should readily detect a cooling effect on our eyes or instruments every time a telescope is aimed into the cold depths of space. Does the fact that no one has reported such a cooling effect mean frigorific radiation doesn't exist. Not necessarily. Such a conclusion is based on the assumption that when a concentrator of a given size focuses cooling radiation from a colder body the effective cooling power increases as the temperature of the colder body decreases in the same way as the effective heating power of a hotter body increases as the temperature of the hotter body increases. However, if cooling power does not scale like heating power, then using a thermometer to detect cooling from radiation from deep space at 3 degree Kelvin will probably require a concentrator (i.e. a telescope) that is much larger than any current or planned telescope. Harry On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 9:18 PM H LV wrote: > Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of > revealing cooling radiation if it existed. > > eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three > secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument > room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first few > two photos on this page: > > http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html > > This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific > radiation it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam > in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling > sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific > radiation is not real. > > > Harry > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF wrote: > > > > Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it. > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF > wrote: > > > > > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the > acquisition and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this > test. The double parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved > or disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a > radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other > focus. At least that's my opinion of it. > > > > > > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists. > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV hveeder...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for > cooling > > > > > > > > radiation. > > > > > > > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the > > > > > > > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located > > > > > > > > at the vertex of the cone. > > > > > > > > See diagram: > > > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing > > > > > > > > If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the > > > > > > > > thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when > > > > > > > > the cone is above it. > > > > > > > > However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties > > > > > > > > then the cone should focus the cooling radiation from the sky onto > the > > > > > > > > thermometer and lower its temperature. > > > > > > > > Harry > > >
[Vo]:small hydrogen
A simple argument that small hydrogen may exist Physics Letters B Volume 794, 10 July 2019, Pages 130-134 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269319303624 Harry
Re: [Vo]:What would it take?
Demonstrate the "toy" to a small number of friends and trusted colleagues. Provide snacks and drinks. Harry On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:00 PM Jonathan Berry wrote: > Interesting idea. > > And while I don't think there are many things that could be introduced as > a toy (Otis T. Carr's patent aside) ... > Or maybe a perpetual motion toy, albeit if that was cheap enough to be for > kids it would be a toy adults would want even more (executive toys). > > I think that images that manifested a tangible energy-like phenomena that > kids could feel could appeal to at least some parents. > > Of course the designs will have to be less controversial that the top > image which is a swastika (happily not just a Nazi thing and in no way > resembles the Nazi version). > > Of course not all kids can feel the phenomena any more than all adults, > but perhaps the percentage is higher as kids haven't been so heavily > indoctrinated against such ideas yet. > > Maybe at any rate a book for kids and one for adults could be a way to go. > > Maybe a colouring book. > > > > > On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 09:08, Robin > wrote: > >> In reply to Jonathan Berry's message of Wed, 13 Apr 2022 01:11:30 +1200: >> Hi, >> [snip] >> >What would it take for a breakthrough in science? >> >> Most people are instinctively afraid of what they don't understand, so >> they ignore it, and hope it will just go away. >> This is especially true if acceptance implies upsetting their entire >> world view. >> Suggestion: Introduce it as a toy. Toys are something harmless given to >> children to help them become accustomed to life >> in the real world, so people automatically accept toys as harmless, >> because that's what they have experienced all their >> lives. >> As long as the toy works, and is novel, everyone will want one, and >> eventually mainstream science will get around to >> investigating. >> >> > >> >When I run through the scenarios it is pretty depressing! >> > >> >There are people who move manifest "Chi" type energy either with their >> body >> >or with technology (pyramids, orgone accumulators, orgonite). >> >This cannot be discounted by science, but it can be ignored. >> >My own coils and image designs have been felt by people who have had no >> >knowledge (not placebo) but no one cares. >> >And I have found which cup of 10 cups has the coil placed under it, but >> no >> >one cares. Cannot be explained away but most on even this list won't >> even >> >give it a moment. >> > >> >So demonstration of a sensation that many (but not everyone) will feel >> >isn't going to cut it, maybe if it was compellingly strong for 99%, but >> not >> >much less than that. >> > >> >So we also have many people who have demonstrated Free Energy, >> Antigravity, >> >"Cold fusion", and in the whole these cannot be fully debunked. >> >However replication is spott at best (often it seems like winning lottery >> >odds) and the true mechanisms aren't really understood (these two facts >> are >> >related of course). >> > >> >So bleeding edge indeed, technology mankind can reach to the stars with >> is >> >left to languish. >> > >> >These technologies aren't fitting in with the prefered models of science, >> >they aren't favored by those with the money, they are at odds with >> politics >> >and are at odds almost philosophically with much of the world. >> > >> >So what will it take? >> > >> >If a device that produces an effect is expensive or difficult to >> reproduce, >> >too few will, even if those who do reproduce it are successful so what? >> >And one or two poor effort reproductions that fail will throw cold water >> on >> >others who otherwise might. >> > >> >If a device provides an anomaly and needs exotic meters or such, again >> that >> >is going to lead to too few who verify it. >> > >> >Maybe if a device is really cheap and simple to reproduce and provides a >> >readily observed clearly anomalous effect it could do something... >> >But to be honest as long as there is neither a mass of interested people >> >not interested people with money and or the right positions within >> >physics... >> > >> >I am not really sure how humanity is going to advance! >> > >> >This doesn't just relate to my research, this relates to every possible >> >technology Vortex was created to discuss or further. >> > >> >I am not trying to push my designs here, but if anyone wants to fight off >> >incredulity (or is someone who has felt energy from my previous designs) >> >then: >> > >> https://www.reddit.com/r/Aetheric_Engineering/comments/ty1j4f/latest_poll/ >> >Generally it is about 50% feel something, and again no one has been able >> to >> >explain away the multiple events that utterly disprove any conventional >> >explanation. >> > >> >But be it my research or anything else, there is a massive barrier that >> >except for making something useful obvious and cheap and easy to make. or >> >some angel investor or lottery win... >> >I just don't see anything changing! >> > >> >I
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > However, there has been a big push to instead choose more efficient heat >> pumps. The Canadian Institute for Climate Choices report found that to >> drive deeper emissions cuts, the switch to heat pumps "would play an >> essential and growing role."" >> > > As I said, I am surprised heat pumps work effectively in Canada. It seems > too cold. I think my heat pump in Atlanta cuts out below 40 deg F, and the > aux gas heater comes on. See: > > > https://www.estesair.com/blog/at-what-temperature-does-a-heat-pump-quit-working-efficiently > > Heat pumps do not operate as efficiently when temperatures drop to between > 25 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit for most systems. > > A heat pump works best when the temperature is above 40. Once outdoor > temperatures drop to 40 degrees, heat pumps start losing efficiency, and > they consume more energy to do their jobs. When temperatures fall to 25 to > 30 degrees, a heat pump loses its spot as the most efficient heating option > for an Atlanta home. > > Apparently heat pumps have improved a lot over the last decade. This article says they now work well down to -10F or lower. https://rmi.org/heat-pumps-a-practical-solution-for-cold-climates/ Harry
[Vo]:Generating Light from Darkness
This uses the thermoelectric effect and radiative cooling at night to power an LED. However, if cooling radiation is real then it should be possible to concentrate it from the sky onto the top of the device and produce a greater temperature difference and therefore more electricity. Harry Generating Light from Darkness MARCH 19, 2020 https://www.energy.gov/science/bes/articles/generating-light-darkness paper https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511930412X
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 10:48 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > Oil and gas furnaces are now being banned in new construction projects in >> parts of Canada. >> > > What are they installing instead? Surely heat pumps don't work in most of > Canada. > > Are they putting in resistance heaters? Those are extremely efficient. I > find it hard to believe they would be mandated. > > The bans in Canada are in Vancouver and Quebec. The same article mentions bans in other countries. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/bans-fossil-fuel-heating-homes-1.6327113 quote "In most cases, fossil fuel combustion is being replaced with electric heating. That can include more traditional but less efficient options, such as baseboard heaters and electric furnaces. However, there has been a big push to instead choose more efficient heat pumps. The Canadian Institute for Climate Choices report found that to drive deeper emissions cuts, the switch to heat pumps "would play an essential and growing role."" Harry
[Vo]:Old vs new paradigms of radiation
According to the standard radiation paradigm cooling radiation does not exist. The paradigm teaches that whenever we think we have observed cooling radiation we have mistaken an apparent phenomena for a real phenomena. However, we should not have to appeal to a paradigm to include or exclude ideas about radiation. Instead we should be able to design and build an apparatus which can unambiguously differentiate between apparent cooling radiation and real cooling radiation. Currently this paradigm is so deeply rooted in the minds of most scientists who study and manipulate radiation, that even if such an apparatus were accidently built and used, it is likely the scientific community would fail to recognise the theory had been contradicted by nature. The scientific community would continue to frame and explain the results using the old paradigm rather than the truth, because it is not unusal for a false theory to continue to be useful in many contexts. Only a pathbreaking technology that was explicitly designed using the new pardigm to achieve results that would be unattainable within the old paradigm would be capable of reorienting the scientific community towards the truth. Dream on. Harry
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
Oil and gas furnaces are now being banned in new construction projects in parts of Canada. In some places after 2023 you won't be able to replace old furnaces with new furnaces. This will further increase the demand for night time electricity. Harry On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 9:07 AM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > Yes, it will. There is no market for electricity at night. >>> >> >> There is no market currently, but if more and more electricity is being >> demanded at night wouldn't that create a market? >> > > Yes, as I said, if nighttime consumption increases, I expect they will > tweak the rates to get the most profit from it. I said, "They might tweak > the discount, and reduce it somewhat . . ." But they have a large captive > market for daytime consumption, with things like office buildings, grocery > stores, shopping malls, shopping mall air conditioning, and so on. Those > customers cannot move their consumption to night. There is probably much > more captive consumption than consumption which could be moved to the > night, so I expect night rates will always be lower. It resembles airplane > seats available between midnight and 8 a.m. They are discounted because few > people want to fly "red eye" at those hours, except for long, overnight, > international flights. > > I do not think Georgia Power will continue offering the 1-cent electric > vehicle rate for long. My guess is that it will go up to something like 5 > cents. That is the "Nights and Weekends" discounted rate, which you can > sign up for. In return for that, the peak rate is 20 cents, which is a lot > more than the usual rate. See: > > > https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-plans/pricing-and-rate-plans/nights-weekends.html > > > https://www.georgiapower.com/content/dam/georgia-power/pdfs/electric-service-tariff-pdfs/TOU-REO-13.pdf > >
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 4:52 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > CB Sites wrote: > > I will confirm what @Jed Rothwell is saying as an >> EV owner. 90% of my travel is inner city 30miles or less all stop and >> go. Just an overnight charge on a 110v plugin charger and good to go. >> I've not seen a noticble change in my electric bill. It's like driving for >> free. >> > > I had one for several months. It was great. With the pandemic, I closed my > office, moved home, and gave the car to my daughter. She loves it! > > > H LV wrote: > > >> What happens when everyone who currently owns a gasoline car buys an >> electric car and >> is charging overnight? Would it make sense for the utility companies to >> continue offering huge discounts for over night charging? >> > > Yes, it will. There is no market for electricity at night. > There is no market currently, but if more and more electricity is being demanded at night wouldn't that create a market? Harry > Either they sell it cheap, or they don't sell it at all. It is like > running a grocery store and having to throw away produce that no one buys, > or flying an airplane with half the seats empty. You never get back the > unsold seats. > > Perhaps the one-cent deep discount in Atlanta will go up in price closer > to the daytime cost, but it is not going back to the full rate. > > There is no way the Texas companies will start charging for nighttime > electricity. It costs them more to get rid of it than to give it away for > free. They charge a fixed fee for service. They resemble an internet > service provider that finds it cheaper to give unlimited bandwidth to most > customers than to try to limit it. Nighttime electricity in Texas really is > "too cheap to meter" (as predicted by Strauss in 1954). > > The power companies do not offer these rates as a favor, or out of the > goodness of their corporate heart. > > > The Texas power is from wind and nukes, which you cannot turn off easily. > I guess you can feather the wind turbines . . . Anyway, they make more > money giving away electricity and collecting a monthly fee. A business > model like an ISP, or NetFlix. > >
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
"Free rider." I think public transport should be free too. but of course it won't really be free. The costs will be borne by the taxpayer. Harry On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 11:51 PM CB Sites wrote: > I will confirm what @Jed Rothwell is saying as an > EV owner. 90% of my travel is inner city 30miles or less all stop and > go. Just an overnight charge on a 110v plugin charger and good to go. > I've not seen a noticble change in my electric bill. It's like driving for > free. > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022, 6:42 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> I wrote: >> >> >>> I don't see the point. Why spend four times more money than you need to? >>> Electric cars are far cheaper per mile. >>> >> >> It is actually 5.6 times more money per mile, because the power companies >> offer a huge discount for recharging overnight. In Atlanta, the power >> company estimates it costs $19 a month to charge an electric car versus >> $107 per month for a gasoline car. See: >> >> >> https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-plans/pricing-and-rate-plans/plug-in-ev.html >> >> As I mentioned, in parts of Texas the cost is $0.00 per month. Granted, >> they also charge a flat fee for electricity, but the incremental additional >> cost of charging an electric car at night is zero. You can't beat that! The >> oil companies cannot compete with that. Which is why they will not be >> selling gasoline cars much longer. People will not pay for Exxonmobil for >> something that the power company gives you for free. >> >>
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
What happens when everyone who currently owns a gasoline car buys an electric car and is charging overnight? Would it make sense for the utility companies to continue offering huge discounts for over night charging? Harry On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 6:42 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > I wrote: > > >> I don't see the point. Why spend four times more money than you need to? >> Electric cars are far cheaper per mile. >> > > It is actually 5.6 times more money per mile, because the power companies > offer a huge discount for recharging overnight. In Atlanta, the power > company estimates it costs $19 a month to charge an electric car versus > $107 per month for a gasoline car. See: > > > https://www.georgiapower.com/residential/billing-and-rate-plans/pricing-and-rate-plans/plug-in-ev.html > > As I mentioned, in parts of Texas the cost is $0.00 per month. Granted, > they also charge a flat fee for electricity, but the incremental additional > cost of charging an electric car at night is zero. You can't beat that! The > oil companies cannot compete with that. Which is why they will not be > selling gasoline cars much longer. People will not pay for Exxonmobil for > something that the power company gives you for free. > >
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 5:28 PM Jürg Wyttenbach wrote: > > On 05.04.2022 22:11, H LV wrote: > > Synthetic fuels can be used in existing gas stations. > > > This is repeating classic nonsense. Maybe it is undesirable, but it is not nonsense. > Also synthetic fuel produces NOx > what destroys everything. It leads to over fertilization of forests what > destroys the filigree relation between trees and soil fungus, what makes > them falling early in storms... NOx produces Ozone what attacks > everything including your lung. Ask the Wuhan people that at time of the > CoV-19 outbreak did live > 20x above the allowed limit. > > This link is about DME (dimethyl ether) as a synthetic fuel. According to this article it burns _very_ cleanly. I am not an expert in these matters so they might not be stating the whole truth. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenrg.2021.663331/full begin quote << Work by Willems at Ford has shown that in engine tests, not only is there zero SOx emissions associated with DME fuels (because the fuel is not fossil-derived) but due to the reduced carbon content in the molecules compared to diesel, CO2 emissions can be as low as 3 g/km, compared to EU 2020 standard diesel car emissions of 95 g/km (European Council directive, 443/2009; European Council directive, 443/2009). Furthermore, as less air is needed and the flame temperature is lower there are practically zero NOx emissions, and because there are no C-C bonds in the ether molecules particulate matter (PM or soot) is also practically zero (Lee et al., 2016). Therefore, compared to current electricity grid mixes and emissions in power generation for EVs, the full scope life cycle emissions for DME-CIVs could be considerably lower.>> end quote Harry
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 1:46 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > Everything we do involves gaseous exchanges with the atmosphere. >> > > What?!? Solar and hydroelectricity do not. Wind power does, in a sense, > but it does not measurably affect the wind (the movement of air heated by > the sun). Fission definitely does not involve gaseous exchanges, unless the > reactor blows up like in Chernobyl or Fukushima. > > What on earth do you mean? > > A few examples: --Volatile organic compounds https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/volatile-organic-compounds-impact-indoor-air-quality --Farming without disturbing soil could cut agriculture’s climate impact by 30% https://theconversation.com/farming-without-disturbing-soil-could-cut-agricultures-climate-impact-by-30-new- research-157153 --Carbon dioxide is emitted as a by-product of clinker production, an intermediate product in cement manufacture, in which calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is calcinated and converted to lime (CaO), the primary component of cement. https://www.ipcc-nggip.iges.or.jp/public/gp/bgp/3_1_Cement_Production.pdf --Methane and carbon dioxide make up 90 to 98% of landfill gas. The remaining 2 to 10% includes nitrogen, oxygen, ammonia, sulfides, hydrogen and various other gases. Landfill gases are produced when bacteria break down organic waste. https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/outdoors/air/landfill_gas.htm > > We aren't going to bring about an end to gaseous exchanges by replacing >> air breathing vehicles with non-air breathing vehicles. >> > > I have no idea what you mean by that. > > See the examples above. > > >> What we should be doing is researching and designing more sustainable air >> breathing machines >> > > Why? What's the point? Electric cars will soon be cheaper, more reliable, > four times more energy efficient, and better for the environment. What's > not to like? > > Synthetic fuels can be used in existing gas stations. Older apartments and houses wouldn't need to be electrically upgraded. Powering heavy machinery with batteries is still unfeasible. Even more so in remote locations. Harry
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
Everything we do involves gaseous exchanges with the atmosphere. We aren't going to bring about an end to gaseous exchanges by replacing air breathing vehicles with non-air breathing vehicles. What we should be doing is researching and designing more sustainable air breathing machines instead of willy nilly declaring such approaches off limits because their pedigree was not so clean. I don't think we should abandon nascent technologies like hydrogen and synthetic fuels just because they aren't currently cost effective. I mean if that were true then solar cells should have been abandoned decades ago. Harry On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 10:32 AM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > >> I don't mean to sound pedantic but the term "chemically fueled" could >> apply to just about any vehicle except one powered by nuclear power. >> > > I don't mean to sound pedantic, but all cars are nuclear powered. Fossil > fuel cars are powered by the sun's fusion millions of years ago; wind, > solar or hydroelectric cars are powered by the sun hours or months ago. > > I think it was clear I meant powered directly by chemical reactions. > > > For example vehicles which use batteries or fuel cells both rely on >> chemical reactions to generate electricity. >> > > Well, they rely on chemical fuel 60% during the day. See: > > https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php# > > Most electric vehicles are recharged overnight, so they are mainly nuclear > or wind powered. In large parts of Texas they are entirely recharged by > wind, for free. (The power companies offer free electricity at night, plus > they have a base monthly charge.) > > > >> What seems to be happening with the push for battery driven electric >> vehicles is nothing less than a comprehensive suspicion, disgust and >> possible hatred of all air breathing vehicles. >> > > People hate air breathing vehicles for good reasons. Mainly: > > They are four times less energy efficient. > > The vehicles themselves are much more complicated and difficult to > maintain. When the technology matures, electric vehicles will be cheaper > over the life of the vehicle. > > Even for electric power generation, fossil fuel is more expensive than > wind or solar, and it causes many more problems including: damage from > fracking and coal mining; damage from ash; particulate pollution; global > warming; enriching our enemies such as Putin. > > Nearly all new generating capacity is renewable, because that is almost > the cheapest. Aeroderivative natural gas is the cheapest at $1,294 base > overnight cost, but solar PV is $1,327. A slight increase in natural gas > costs, or a slight decrease in PV costs will make solar the cheapest. The > cost of solar and wind are more stable and predictable than natural gas. > The cost of sunlight will not increase, whereas natural gas costs have > increased thanks to Putin. Coal and fission cannot begin to compete. Solar > thermal cannot compete. It is probably one of history's might-have-beens. > > See Table 1: > > https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf > >
Re: [Vo]:This smells like an April 1 joke
On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 6:40 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > An electric car can be charged at home. Or you can install a charger > anywhere, because electric power is available everywhere. But a hydrogen > powered vehicle must be refueled at a hydrogen gas station. It would cost > huge amounts to build enough hydrogen stations. I think the era of > chemically fueled ground transportation is rapidly coming to an end. It > will all be battery powered electric soon. > > I don't mean to sound pedantic but the term "chemically fueled" could apply to just about any vehicle except one powered by nuclear power. For example vehicles which use batteries or fuel cells both rely on chemical reactions to generate electricity. What seems to be happening with the push for battery driven electric vehicles is nothing less than a comprehensive suspicion, disgust and possible hatred of all air breathing vehicles. Harry
Re: [Vo]:mRNA Vaccine Reverse Transcribed into Liver DNA
I had all three vaccines too, but I am opposed to vaccine mandates. Just because vaccines have been mandated in the past does not mean mandates are lawful from a constitutional standpoint. If the benefits of vaccines are allowed to trump the right to security of person, other evils will follow. Harry On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 8:47 PM CB Sites wrote: > As normal, more antivax propaganda. 2 and a boost here and still Covid > free. Only thing is I feel far more liberal than before. Lol. > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 9:16 AM Jürg Wyttenbach wrote: > >> As some of you might know, the Pfizer jab is highly damaging and so far >> killed/disabled > 100'000 people. The jabs - as studies show - over all did >> not save a single live. >> >> As a Paper:: >> https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/The-COVID-19-Inoculations-More-Harm-Than-Good-REV-Dec-16-2021.pdf >> >> This has been proven by Pfizer itself. But because daddy Biden himself >> did bribe all US journals:: >> >> :: >> https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/biden-administration-paid-media-1-billion-for-covid-shot-propaganda/article_004df1ec-9e42-11ec-9cf8-478353d0e684.html >> >> No journal ever did report about the Pfizer Phase III 6 months study >> results, that did clearly show more deaths in the vaccine arm. Not included >> are several more direct vaccine deaths we now find inside the first 10'000 >> pages released by FDA. So Pfizer itself did prove extensive damage from its >> jabs. >> >> >> So virtually Pfizer damaged the live of > 2'000'000'000 people world wide >> by selling a devastating RNA gene tech chemo therapy as a "vaccine". >> >> The Pfizer data now is public: So, after 6 months the Pfizer chemo >> therapy (Called CoV-19 vaccine) did show far more damage than benefit. >> Pfizer did hide several deaths and live long crippled ...Boostered (UK) now >> get CoV-19 3..10x more often than unvaxx. Vaxx New York children face >100x >> more damage than benefit. >> >> I did announce (on a forum) the post CoV-19 war more than 4 months ago >> when it became clear that all the illegal money accumulated during the >> CoV-19 terror regime can only be secured under fire protection = diverting >> the public from a biological war crime committed by FDA/CDC/US-government >> and the media slaves. >> >> >> CoV-19 was a war against the population with the main target to steal tax >> payers money. At no time during the last 2 years CoV-19 was a threat to the >> health of 99.9% of the population. >> >> Already March 2020 we did know 3 perfect cures that could safe at least >> 99.8% of all lives. (See also Fauci e-mails) >> >> What the FM/R/J/B mafia did to prevent treatment was:: >> >> Big pharma bribed and threatened to death many doctors: Here the video >> testimony of Dr. Andrew Hill Liverpool that first did promote Ivermectin >> and after death threats and heavy bribing allowed the FM/R/J/B mafia to >> write the conclusion of his "famous" reversed finding paper... >> >> >> https://rumble.com/vwg569-a-letter-to-andrew-hill-dr-tess-lawrie-ivermectin-suppression-killed-millio.html >> >> >> >> Do not believe anything about CoV-19 that comes from Lancet, Jamma the >> today's main fake medical CoV-19 science journals. >> >> I did help as many people I could with treatment and to escape the >> damaging RNA immune stimulation chemo therapy. (Exact terminology according >> Biontec home page - at least until Jan. 2022!) >> >> If you need a real vaccine take Novavax or J (more risky) or go to >> Cuba! >> >> J.W. >> >> >> On 13.03.2022 13:34, H LV wrote: >> >> >> >> Have faith in "The Science" . All that matters in life is "The Science". >> "The Science" will determine policy. >> >> Harry >> >> On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 10:08 PM Terry Blanton >> wrote: >> >>> A Lund Univ study in Sweden: >>> >>> https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73/htm >>> >>> Not to panic. It was in vitro. But, it wasn't supposed to alter our >>> DNA. If proved to happen in the body, it could have long term health >>> effects including possible autoimmune effects. >>> >> -- >> Jürg Wyttenbach >> Bifangstr. 22 >> 8910 Affoltern am Albis >> >> +41 44 760 14 18 >> +41 79 246 36 06 >> >>
Re: [Vo]:mRNA Vaccine Reverse Transcribed into Liver DNA
Have faith in "The Science" . All that matters in life is "The Science". "The Science" will determine policy. Harry On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 10:08 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > A Lund Univ study in Sweden: > > https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73/htm > > Not to panic. It was in vitro. But, it wasn't supposed to alter our > DNA. If proved to happen in the body, it could have long term health > effects including possible autoimmune effects. >
Re: [Vo]:OT: More evidence supports use of Ivermectin
Jed you should watch the link I provided https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfyOihhAD4A The video is based on research that is more recent than the research you cited. The doctor follows the evidence. He is not anti-vaccine. He is not an evangelist for ivermectin. He periodically reviews the lastest evidence for all treatments and vaccines. harry On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 1:09 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > Ivermectin improves the prognosis for patients infected with parasites. It > does nothing to prevent or cure COVID. Double blind tests of ivermectin > only show positive results in places where parasites are widespread, such > as India. See: > > > https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted?s=r > >>
[Vo]:OT: More evidence supports use of Ivermectin
Here is more evidence that ivermectin is better than remdesivir for treating covid-19 and that it is also effective as a prophylactic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfyOihhAD4A Harry
[Vo]:OT: Dr. Ponesse Speech at Trucker Convoy in Ottawa.
Dr. Julie Ponesse was a professor of bioethics at the University of Western Ontario for 20 years until her position was terminated last fall because she would not comply with the University's mandatory vaccine policy. Here she is speaking at the protest in Ottawa at the beginning of February. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_qrzGK2EdI --- "We have been instructed by our leaders to hate, divide, shame and dismiss and we are excelling at these things superbly. This is now what it means to be Canadian." -- Dr. Julie Ponesse Why are so many choosing a life in a cage? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIGJk7DXU0w - Harry
Re: [Vo]:Is bulk Pd cold fusion an H-D reaction?
In that paper Schwinger refers to one of his earlier papers. I believe this paper he presented at the first CF conference is based on it: https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJnuclearene.pdf In it he puts forward a rough mathematical argument (which I don't pretend to understand) as to why he thinks H-D fusion is more likely in a lattice. These two paragraphs grabbed me in particular: <> <> Harry On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 11:51 AM Jed Rothwell wrote: > The other day Francesco Celani and his friend asked me if I know of any > papers that discuss the role of H in the bulk Pd cold fusion. Can H enhance > the reaction? Is there an H-D reaction? I said I don't recall any papers > like that. It turns out they already found one, which I added to the > library: > > Schwinger, J., *Cold fusion: a hypothesis*. Z. Naturforsch. A, 1990. *45A*: > p. 756. > > https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJcoldfusion.pdf > > QUOTE: > > The hypothesis that I now advance has the following ingredients: > > > (1) The claim of Pons and Fleischmann to have realized cold fusion is > valid. > > (2) But, this cold fusion process is not powered by a DD reaction. Rather, > it is an HD reaction which feeds on the small contamination of D2O by H2O. > > > > Ed Storms has often said there may be an H-D reaction, but I do not think > he says this is optimum, or that it enhances the reaction. > > Here is what I wrote back to Francesco: > > Ed Storms and others have speculated that a mixture of hydrogen and > deuterium might produce different products. You can read Ed's papers for > details. I do not recall anyone testing this hypothesis. I do not recall > reading a paper that suggested a combination would produce better results. > Many people have said that allowing hydrogen contamination of deuterium > prevents the reaction with the bulk-Pd - D system. Bockris and others said > it was important to prevent exposing heavy water to air, because heavy > water is hydrophilic. Bockris used to keep heavy water in a medical IV bag > (with no air), and he added it to the cell with an IV tube, which is small. > You put the valve at the end of the tube, and open it to add make-up heavy > water to the cell. > > Bockris also said that CO2 contamination of heavy water poisons the > reaction. > >
[Vo]:Leslie's Cube and methods of measuring temperature.
In 1804 by John Leslie invented the Leslie Cube. It is used to investigate how surface type changes thermal emissions. In this video a Leslie cube is filled with boiling water and an infrared probe is used to estimate the amount of infrared radiation emitted by each side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Car64ICqk What sort of readings would one get if the cube were filled with ice water? It should be pointed out that it is impossible to impartially investigate hypothetical frigorific radiation with a device like an infrared probe because it is not designed to detect such radiation. Would a thermocouple be better? No because they are also sensitive to infrared radiation so that means they are also biased detection devices. It would be better to use "primitive" devices like a thermoscope or a bulb thermometer. Harry Harry
Re: [Vo]:A simpler test
Then again, it could be that most of the frigorific radiation that could be detected with such instruments is either scattered or absorbed by the atmosphere before it reaches the ground. This would actually make sense from the standpoint of frigorific theory since the upper atmosphere is colder than lower atmosphere. I am going to need some sort of cold substance one way or the other. Harry On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 9:21 PM H LV wrote: > > Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of > revealing cooling radiation if it existed. > > eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three > secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument > room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first > two photos on this page: > http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html > > This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific > radiation that it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam > in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling > sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific > radiation is not real. > > > Harry > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF wrote: > > > > Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it. > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF > > wrote: > > > > > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the > > > acquisition and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this > > > test. The double parabola test you initially proposed would not have > > > proved or disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would > > > have been a radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at > > > the other focus. At least that's my opinion of it. > > > > > > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling > > > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists. > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling > > > > > > > > radiation. > > > > > > > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the > > > > > > > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located > > > > > > > > at the vertex of the cone. > > > > > > > > See diagram: > > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing > > > > > > > > If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the > > > > > > > > thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when > > > > > > > > the cone is above it. > > > > > > > > However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties > > > > > > > > then the cone should focus the cooling radiation from the sky onto the > > > > > > > > thermometer and lower its temperature. > > > > > > > > Harry > >
Re: [Vo]:A simpler test
Some telescopes by virtue of their design should already be capable of revealing cooling radiation if it existed. eg. This telescope consists of a primary parabolic reflector and three secondary mirrors which direct the collected light into an instrument room several meters away from the primary reflector. See the first two photos on this page: http://www.vikdhillon.staff.shef.ac.uk/teaching/phy217/telescopes/phy217_tel_coude.html This telescope should be capable of focusing enough frigorific radiation that it could be sensed by a hand crossing the path of the beam in the instrument room. It seems unlikely that such an odd cooling sensation would go unreported. Therefore it is likely frigorific radiation is not real. Harry On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:43 PM MSF wrote: > > Don't forget to give us the result of your experiment if you do it. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 9:06 PM, MSF > wrote: > > > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the acquisition > > and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this test. The > > double parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved or > > disproved cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a > > radiative heat sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other > > focus. At least that's my opinion of it. > > > > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling > > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists. > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling > > > > > > radiation. > > > > > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the > > > > > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located > > > > > > at the vertex of the cone. > > > > > > See diagram: > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing > > > > > > If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the > > > > > > thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when > > > > > > the cone is above it. > > > > > > However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties > > > > > > then the cone should focus the cooling radiation from the sky onto the > > > > > > thermometer and lower its temperature. > > > > > > Harry >
Re: [Vo]:A mirror and an infrared thermometer
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:09 AM H LV wrote: > > If you hold an infrared thermometer close to a mirror and point it at > the mirror does it take its own temperature? > > Harry > This is another related thought experiment: Imagine a small round body with initial temperature T1 at the center of a spherical cavity. The radius of the cavity is continually growing and the interior surface of the cavity remains perfectly reflective. The spherical nature of the reflective cavity means all the radiation emitted by the body is continuously returned to the body. Will the body cool down or remain at the same temperature? Does your intuition diverge from theory? Harry
[Vo]:A mirror and an infrared thermometer
If you hold an infrared thermometer close to a mirror and point it at the mirror does it take its own temperature? Harry
Re: [Vo]:A simpler test
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:06 PM MSF wrote: > > Now that we have learned about all there is to learn about the acquisition > and preservation of dry ice, I think you're right about this test. The double > parabola test you initially proposed would not have proved or disproved > cooling radiation. The dry ice at the focus would have been a radiative heat > sink and would have lowered the temperature at the other focus. At least > that's my opinion of it. > When this double parabola experiment was originally done over 200 years Marc-Auguste Pictet came to a similar conclusion while at the same time Count Rumford saw it as evidence of cooling radiation. I proposed that a single elliptical reflector could yield a clearer answer, but it is harder to make than a parabolic reflector. > The simpler test you propose really demonstrates the idea of cooling > radiation as its own wave phenomenon, if it exists. > Using the sky as a source of cold is my idea, but Count Rumford went on to indoor experiments with a cone and some ice. His cone was made of polished brass I believe and was similar to speaking tubes which were used as hearing aids at the time. He reported finding a cooling effect using a thermoscope placed at the small end of the cone, but the details are vague and nobody else seems to have tried to repeat his experiment. Harry > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Monday, January 24th, 2022 at 5:35 PM, H LV wrote: > > > From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling > > > > radiation. > > > > It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the > > > > inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located > > > > at the vertex of the cone. > > > > See diagram: > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing > > > > If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the > > > > thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when > > > > the cone is above it. > > > > However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties > > > > then the cone should focus the cooling radiation from the sky onto the > > > > thermometer and lower its temperature. > > > > Harry >
[Vo]:A simpler test
>From a fabrication standpoint here is an even simpler test for cooling radiation. It consists of a truncated cone lined with reflective mylar on the inside. The wide end is open to the sky and a thermometer is located at the vertex of the cone. See diagram: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7coRgUqwzMGw40DhUQzJACCyHrd8EL5/view?usp=sharing If cooling radiation does not exist then the temperature of the thermometer should be about the same or perhaps slightly warmer when the cone is above it. However, if cooling radiation is real and has wave-like properties then the cone should focus the cooling radiation from the sky onto the thermometer and lower its temperature. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
Cool! Harry On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:21 PM MSF wrote: > > How to make dry ice with a fire extinguisher: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLNHDxd6nDc > > How to make dry ice with a paintball tank: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7U2CbxfMMk > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 8:08 PM, MSF > wrote: > > > It seems as if you are going to do some serious experimenting, and would > > have to make that 5 hour trek more often than you would like. You could > > save yourself a lot of time and gasoline if you just made your own dry ice. > > It's pretty simple. You can buy the whole setup. It's basically a canvas > > bag connected to a CO2 cylinder. You can rent the gas cylinder from a > > welding supply house. Obviously, that's more expensive than buying some dry > > ice, but probably cheaper than making that trip frequently. > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 6:15 PM, H LV hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Thanks. The same supplier also makes liquid nitrogen, although if I > > > > > > use liquid nitrogen then I would have to buy a special vessel. > > > > > > For a few years now I have been thinking about redoing a key > > > > > > experiment in the development of radiation theory and then following > > > > > > it up with an experimental modification which has never been tried > > > > > > according to my own historical research. The original experiment > > > > > > performed by Pictet in the 1790s involves placing a flask of > > > > > > ice/water/salt at the focus of one parabolic reflector and a > > > > > > thermometer at the focus of another parabolic reflector. The distance > > > > > > between the foci is several feet but the thermometer cools down > > > > > > significantly. Initially Pictet was surprised because he thought > > > > > > nothing would happen, but he later came to explain the effect in terms > > > > > > of what we now call radiative cooling whereby the parabolic reflector > > > > > > near the thermometer prevented the thermometer from being warmed by > > > > > > its surroundings causing it to lose heat to the ice. However, Count > > > > > > Rumford said it was cooled by the action of frigorific or cooling > > > > > > emanations from the ice being focused onto the thermometer. Pictet > > > > > > thought his explanation was closer to the truth but acknowledged that > > > > > > the experimental result could be explained equally well by either > > > > > > explanation. I want to redo the experiment but also perform a new > > > > > > experiment where the two parabolic reflectors are replaced with one > > > > > > elliptical reflector because it should produce a result which more > > > > > > clearly favors one explanation over the other. > > > > > > This is a diagram I made of the original experiment along with my > > > > > > proposed modification: > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/16HkSc_BvIvIWJCDwr_KwypW1fhuIUzCf/view?usp=sharing > > > > > > In this 1985 paper the authors describe Pictect's original experiment > > > > > > in more detail and the ideas that were in play at the time. They also > > > > > > describe their recreation of the experiment using liquid nitrogen, a > > > > > > brass ball and parabolic reflectors made of mylar and cardboard: > > > > > > http://webspace.pugetsound.edu/facultypages/jcevans/Pictet's > > > experiment.pdf > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:41 PM MSF foster...@protonmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > When transporting or storing dry ice, styrofoam is your friend. A Dewar > > > > flask would be preferable, but only thermos bottles are commonly > > > > available, and a lot of them are no longer Dewars. A styrofoam cooler > > > > would probably make your dry ice last the 2 1/2 hour trip as long as > > > > it's full. Large pieces are preferable just to reduce the total surface > > > > area. > > > > > > > > Since you would be traveling in a car, you would want to make sure of > > > > good ventilation to prevent carbon dioxide build up. > > > > > > > > Storing in a freezer could help, as long as the dry ice is
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
Here is a similar investigation using parabolic and elliptical reflectors and also a simple reflector with flat sides sloping at 45 degrees. With the parabolic reflector they managed to a cool an emitter 20 degrees below ambient temperature at night. The elliptical reflector was almost as good. https://youtu.be/7qZodSfFQCM Harry On Fri., Jan. 21, 2022, 1:42 p.m. Jones Beene, wrote: > Of interest: > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262806145_Blue_Sky_Cooling_for_Parabolic_Trough_Plants > >
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
Sorry please forget that question.. I forgot that my mail from vortex was going into a separate folder. Harry I wrote: > btw, when I reply to a message the vortex list does not return my > reply so I have to check the website > to see if it was received. Is this normal now? > >
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
Whoa Jones! If the sky can be considered a cold dome, and if frigorific radiation follows the rules of geometric optics then when an elliptical reflector is pointed at the sky this is similar to placing a cold body at the reflector's near focus F1. The cooling rays that happen to pass through this point will be directed towards the thermometer at the far focus F2. This thermometer should cool roughly half as much as a thermometer placed at F1. If it is substantially less than half then ordinary radiant cooling would be sufficient to account for the difference. This link shows how an elliptical reflector or a hyperbolic reflector could be used. The key thing to remember is that cooling rays are being emitted in all directions from the sky, but the reflectors selectively focus those rays which happen to pass through F1 in the case of the elliptical reflector or would have passed through F1 in the case of the hyperbolic reflector. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eT1hmvt-QLpdv0ORoLcaFwewI8Qbhpz6/view?usp=sharing The extra elements refer to some of the events, images and ideas that I contemplated concurrently with this topic. ;-) Harry On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 1:42 PM Jones Beene wrote: > > Of interest: > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262806145_Blue_Sky_Cooling_for_Parabolic_Trough_Plants >
Re: dry ice at Burning Man Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 8:24 PM William Beaty wrote: > > > Buy slab-type, slabs kept in a stack to avoid internal convection. > > Buy an Al mylar "space blanket" and wrap the slab-stack in many layers. > > Best is to store the whole thing in a thick styrofoam box placed inside > a bigger drinks-cooler. > > Doing that, you can make 20lbs last for over a week. > Great! > While driving, blow outside air or keep windows cracked, so you DON'T DIE. > (Usually this isn't a big issue, since when done right, the offgassing > will be low. People only die when they try using paper bags to transport > many cubic feet of pellet-type, in hot desert environment (with car > sealed, with air conditioning on "recirculate," and with air flowing > through the pellets.) > Ok. Good advice. > For Burning Man, I took 30lbs in a DIY chamber made from many layers of > foil-coated 1/2" styrofoam, for walls 6in thick. I was sitting all day > in Center House, handing out chips so people could cool their drinks. > The only problem was with hot wind storms, where my big box was outside > the tent. Tiny tiny air leaks acted like blow-torches, carving little > slots in the surface of my slab-stack. (That's when I started wrapping > the whole thing in reflective mylar.) Jones's link on 'blue sky cooling' gave me another idea. It seems to me the sky could be used as a cold supply instead of placing some sort of cold material at the first focus of the ellipse. I will explain my cartoon reasoning in a follow up post ;-) The sky wouldn't have the same cooling power but it might be enough to reveal the existence of cooling rays. Harry > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2022, H LV wrote: > > > Does anyone here have experience transporting and storing dry ice? > > If you keep it stored in an ordinary freezer how long will ice cube > > sized pieces last? > > The closest supplier I can find is a 2.5 hour drive away. Will it even > > last 2.5 hours if stored in a cooler or thermos bottle? Would larger > > chunks be better? > > Thanks. > > > > Harry > > > > (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) > William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci >
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 8:30 PM William Beaty wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2022, H LV wrote: > > > Does anyone here have experience transporting and storing dry ice? > > First, call the seafood section of any local supermarket, and ask if they > sell dry ice. If they don't, they probably know who does (since people > know to call seafood suppliers when searching for dry ice.) Seafood, and > also ice-cream shops. Here locally, the QFC markets all sell it. But > during halloween week, you can only get some if you'd first reserved it > months in advance! > Ok. I noticed that most American Walmarts sell dry ice, but not the WalMarts in Ontario. which is too bad because there is a Walmart that is only 45 mins away. btw, when I reply to a message the vortex list does not return my reply so I have to check the website to see if it was received. Is this normal now? Harry
Re: [Vo]:Dry Ice
Thanks. The same supplier also makes liquid nitrogen, although if I use liquid nitrogen then I would have to buy a special vessel. For a few years now I have been thinking about redoing a key experiment in the development of radiation theory and then following it up with an experimental modification which has never been tried according to my own historical research. The original experiment performed by Pictet in the 1790s involves placing a flask of ice/water/salt at the focus of one parabolic reflector and a thermometer at the focus of another parabolic reflector. The distance between the foci is several feet but the thermometer cools down significantly. Initially Pictet was surprised because he thought nothing would happen, but he later came to explain the effect in terms of what we now call radiative cooling whereby the parabolic reflector near the thermometer prevented the thermometer from being warmed by its surroundings causing it to lose heat to the ice. However, Count Rumford said it was cooled by the action of frigorific or cooling emanations from the ice being focused onto the thermometer. Pictet thought his explanation was closer to the truth but acknowledged that the experimental result could be explained equally well by either explanation. I want to redo the experiment but also perform a new experiment where the two parabolic reflectors are replaced with one elliptical reflector because it should produce a result which more clearly favors one explanation over the other. This is a diagram I made of the original experiment along with my proposed modification: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16HkSc_BvIvIWJCDwr_KwypW1fhuIUzCf/view?usp=sharing In this 1985 paper the authors describe Pictect's original experiment in more detail and the ideas that were in play at the time. They also describe their recreation of the experiment using liquid nitrogen, a brass ball and parabolic reflectors made of mylar and cardboard: http://webspace.pugetsound.edu/facultypages/jcevans/Pictet's%20experiment.pdf Harry On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:41 PM MSF wrote: > > When transporting or storing dry ice, styrofoam is your friend. A Dewar flask > would be preferable, but only thermos bottles are commonly available, and a > lot of them are no longer Dewars. A styrofoam cooler would probably make your > dry ice last the 2 1/2 hour trip as long as it's full. Large pieces are > preferable just to reduce the total surface area. > > Since you would be traveling in a car, you would want to make sure of good > ventilation to prevent carbon dioxide build up. > > Storing in a freezer could help, as long as the dry ice is inside a styrofoam > container. The freezer, although far above the dry ice temperature would at > least slow down the heat loss. > > Some of your fancier ice cream places are using liquid nitrogen to make > instant ice cream, so if that would do the trick for your cooling purpose, > there might be a supply nearer you. > > ‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Thursday, January 20th, 2022 at 3:55 PM, H LV wrote: > > > Does anyone here have experience transporting and storing dry ice? > > > > If you keep it stored in an ordinary freezer how long will ice cube > > > > sized pieces last? > > > > The closest supplier I can find is a 2.5 hour drive away. Will it even > > > > last 2.5 hours if stored in a cooler or thermos bottle? Would larger > > > > chunks be better? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Harry >
[Vo]:Dry Ice
Does anyone here have experience transporting and storing dry ice? If you keep it stored in an ordinary freezer how long will ice cube sized pieces last? The closest supplier I can find is a 2.5 hour drive away. Will it even last 2.5 hours if stored in a cooler or thermos bottle? Would larger chunks be better? Thanks. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Macedonio Melloni's 1846 Moonlight Experiment
I think Melloni's detector was a homemade thermocouple and probably the best one for the time. The thermalelectric effect- on which a thermocouple depends - was still pretty new at the time having been discovered in the 1820s by Seeback (who incidently helped Goethe write his book on a colour theory of light). Harry On Mon., Jan. 17, 2022, 5:26 p.m. MSF, wrote: > One wonders what Melloni's detector was. Very sensitive was Edison's > tasimeter, which from what I've read could detect radiation from individual > stars at the prime focus of a telescope. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Monday, January 17th, 2022 at 2:47 PM, H LV > wrote: > > > The first person credited with detecting heat from moonlight was > > > > Macedonio Melloni in 1846. Below is a brief description of the > > > > experiment from "Infrared metaphysics: the elusive ontology of > > > > radiation. Part 1" by Hasok Chang , Sabina Leonelli. > > > > (Btw, I have read elsewhere that the experiment was performed on top > > > > of Mount Vesuvius rather than on his apartment balcony. Scientific > > > > folklore perhaps?) > > > > There is a link below of a video described as a reconstruction of > > > > Melloni's experiment. However it is only a laboratory demonstration > > > > using an electric burner as a source of infrared radiation, but it > > > > does use Melloni's large fresnel lens which is worth seeing. If the > > > > temperature change observed by Melloni was the same as in the video, > > > > then he observed an increase of only about 0.25 degrees. > > > > begin quote: > > > > < > > > a magnificent lens out to the balcony of his apartment in Naples. He > > > > had just received the lens, one meter in diameter and the finest he > > > > had acquired so far for the Osservatorio Metereologico then under his > > > > direction. Melloni expectantly trained the powerfully focused > > > > moonlight on his 'thermomultiplier', the most sensitive thermometer > > > > yet known to science. To his delight, the thermomultiplier needle > > > > swung immediately on receiving the light. Over the ages moonlight had > > > > been considered the archetype of 'cold light', famously listed under > > > > the heading of 'negative instances of heat' in Francis Bacon's > > > > analysis of thermal phenomena designed to illustrate the methods of > > > > the new inductive science in the seventeenth century. Marc-Auguste > > > > Pictet in the late eighteenth century focused moonbeams into a bright > > > > light, but still detected no heat. Now Melloni had finally shown the > > > > fallacy of the old opinion. Only moments later, however, Melloni's > > > > delight turned into puzzlement as he noticed that the direction of the > > > > needle-swing indicated a cooling of the thermometer by the moonlight. > > > > That would not do. Melloni considered possible sources of error, made > > > > calculations, and cajoled the instruments, repeating the trials until > > > > he managed to produce a repeatable detection of a positive heating > > > > effect. > > > > This was not a frivolous experiment. Melloni was at the height of a > > > > productive research career that earned him the epithet of 'the founder > > > > of the science' of radiant heat, even 'the Newton of heat'. He made > > > > the moonlight experiment with a very specific purpose in mind: Melloni > > > > needed moonlight to have heat, in order to uphold his recent > > > > conversion to the view that illumination and radiant heat were both > > > > effects of one and the same cause. The radiation of heat (unmediated, > > > > near instantaneous transfer of heat) had been the subject of active > > > > research at least since about 1790, but the nature of radiant heat had > > > > still not been elucidated thoroughly. Melloni's importance in the > > > > history of science now rests mostly on his contributions toward the > > > > identification of radiant heat as long-wavelength light, but curiously > > > > he had spent the 1830s piling up experiment after experiment that went > > > > against the idea that 'obscure radiant heat' was 'invisible light'. > > > > His experimental arguments had convinced many others to turn away from > > > > the apparently absurd notion of non-illuminating light.>> > > > > end quote > > > > a reconstruction of a historical experiment > > > > https://youtu.be/iDcy21D6LLc > > > > Harry > >
[Vo]:Macedonio Melloni's 1846 Moonlight Experiment
The first person credited with detecting heat from moonlight was Macedonio Melloni in 1846. Below is a brief description of the experiment from "Infrared metaphysics: the elusive ontology of radiation. Part 1" by Hasok Chang , Sabina Leonelli. (Btw, I have read elsewhere that the experiment was performed on top of Mount Vesuvius rather than on his apartment balcony. Scientific folklore perhaps?) There is a link below of a video described as a reconstruction of Melloni's experiment. However it is only a laboratory demonstration using an electric burner as a source of infrared radiation, but it does use Melloni's large fresnel lens which is worth seeing. If the temperature change observed by Melloni was the same as in the video, then he observed an increase of only about 0.25 degrees. begin quote: <> end quote a reconstruction of a historical experiment https://youtu.be/iDcy21D6LLc Harry
Re: [Vo]:Regarding Moonlight: What is the right question?
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 10:51 AM H LV wrote: > One commentator suggested that a mirror be used to redirect the moon light to > a spot under the moonshade. I like this experimental modification because it > respects the question the "believers" are asking. It does not substitute one > question for another question and claim an answer to the second question is > equivalent to answering the first question. > > Harry Infact a mirror isn't necessary. What is needed is a room with a small window with a shutter to let in the moonlight. When the shutter is opened the resulting moon beam would fall on one of two target spots which would both be initially at the same temperature. Ideally the interior surfaces of the room would have a uniform temperature so that the possibility of radiant warming or cooling measurably affecting the temperature of the spots is eliminated. Such a room could be called an 'oven' although it might be more appropriate to call it a 'cave' since an oven with an opening is typically imagined as being an emitter of light whereas a cave with an opening is typically imagined as being a receiver of light. Harry Harry
[Vo]:Moon and Earth
Nice animation showing how the Earth looks from the Moon and how the Moon looks from the Earth during April 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1ZXm3MH6I Harry
Re: [Vo]:Regarding Moonlight: What is the right question?
I wrote: > > If one holds that the two situations are not physically equivalent then it > becomes necessary to design an experiment involving shaded moonlight where > the effect of radiant cooling can be neutralized. One might say repeat the > experiment with the same apparatus on a clear moonless night and it has > been done by skeptics and no temperature difference is observed. However, > that changes the question and the experiment since there is no moonlight > that is being shaded. > > Sorry.. that should say "...the same temperature difference is observed." instead of "...no temperature difference is observed". Harry
[Vo]:Regarding Moonlight: What is the right question?
Lately I have been watching many youtube videos investigating the question of whether or not moonlight has a cooling effect. The experiment is very simple. On a clear night with moonlight measure the temperature of two similar bodies, with one in the moonlight and the other shaded from the moonlight. The result is the temperature of the body exposed to the moonlight is consistently slightly cooler than the temperature of the body in the shade. Generally speaking the people who accept the results at face value seem to be unaware of the phenomena of radiant cooling and the technical challenges of measuring temperature changes. The debunkers on the other hand point out that the effect is only apparent and can be readily explained in terms of radiant cooling:The moonshade makes it difficult for the body to radiate its heat to the cool night sky so it remains slightly warmer than the body in the moonlight which radiates heat more easily to the cool night sky. Case closed. However, after reading some of the exchanges and examining the design of experiments I have come to the conclusion that most of the "debunkers" have a different question in mind from the "believers". This is partly the fault of the "believers" since the question is usually more clearly expressed by the design of the experiment itself which requires that moonlight be compared to shaded moonlight . On the other hand the "debunkers" work with the metaphysical presupposition that being shaded from moonlight on a clear night is physically equivalent to a clear moonless night. If one holds that the two situations are not physically equivalent then it becomes necessary to design an experiment involving shaded moonlight where the effect of radiant cooling can be neutralized. One might say repeat the experiment with the same apparatus on a clear moonless night and it has been done by skeptics and no temperature difference is observed. However, that changes the question and the experiment since there is no moonlight that is being shaded. One commentator suggested that a mirror be used to redirect the moon light to a spot under the moonshade. I like this experimental modification because it respects the question the "believers" are asking. It does not substitute one question for another question and claim an answer to the second question is equivalent to answering the first question. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Using the cold universe as a renewable and sustainable energy source
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 7:04 PM Robin wrote: In reply to H LV's message of Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:11:09 -0500: > Hi, > [snip] > >Terrestrial radiative cooling: Using the cold universe as a renewable and > >sustainable energy source > > > https://www.sciencemagazinedigital.org/sciencemagazine/13_november_2020/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1637817#articleId1637817 > > I note that 8-13 mm is the same order of magnitude as the CMBR. > Coincidence? > > I think the wavelength is 8 - 13 μm (micrometer) rather than 8 - 13 mm (millimeter). Harry
[Vo]:Using the cold universe as a renewable and sustainable energy source
Terrestrial radiative cooling: Using the cold universe as a renewable and sustainable energy source https://www.sciencemagazinedigital.org/sciencemagazine/13_november_2020/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1637817#articleId1637817 A presentation of the paper on youtube https://youtu.be/_O6x47BjYT4 Harry
Re: [Vo]:OT: steam locomotive
If radiative cooling technology, such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFzYvYAUo4 were coupled to thermoelectric materials or to a sterling engine then electricity could be generated. Harry On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:37 AM Jones Beene wrote: > The most interesting new - but actually old - engine development (esp. for > those who think LENR has a future in transportation) is the re-emergence of > the Stilrling design. This engine design and the Brayton cycle, in general, > never made the grade for commercialization - before now, at least. > > Change is in the air... so to speak. Unfortunately China, once again, is > making large engineering gains while we seem to be playing catchup. > > https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202112/1243157.shtml > > Quote: "the basic prototype of China's first large-bore Stirling engine > successfully conducted the recent performance test... at a rated power of > 320 kilowatts with a power conversion efficiency of 40 percent, making it > the most powerful Stirling engine known around the globe." > > There are few if any diesels which can return 40% efficiency but China got > there on the first prototype, > > The reason that the piston-Sterling could potentially augment LENR is not > well appreciated either. Basically it is because the Brayton cycle is > inherently *closed-cycle*. The Stirling can be either piston or turbine > based, but the piston config is what LENR can possibly optimize with few > changes. > > IOW the closed-cycle is one way to expose a metal catalyst to a flow of > hydrogen without combustion of the hydrogen itself. > > Thus, if the working gas contains even a small percentage of hydrogen and > the piston crown is coated with nickel/palladium alloy, then extra heat > could potentially be extracted - on top of the external heat of combustion > which occurs else where in the design, The LENR would be a booster, so to > speak, > > Will China be the first to realize this ? They did after all, report on > replicating Arata and that was a decade ago. > > > Jed Rothwell wrote: > > H LV wrote: > > We don't really know how steam engines would have evolved because they > were out-competed by diesel engines. > > > As I recall, the last attempts to compete with Diesel engines was with > steam turbines. This source says the Union Pacific actually made two steam > turbine locomotives, and tested them, in 1939 and 1962. > > >
Re: [Vo]:OT: Energy and taxation
I don't think tracking is necessary to maintain tax revenues for each state. The purchase of miles could be limited in the same way fuel tanks are finite in size. Also buying miles would be a local transaction which would ensure the funds go to the state in which the vehicle is mostly driven. Tacking as a solution is a sort a lazy slide into ever increasing levels of survillence. Harry On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 8:36 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > The problem with these solutions is that the state where the miles are > driven should receive the revenue. Soom road tractors will be EV and those > states that would have normally collected fuel tax from diesel trucks will > have a loss of revenue. Some states have proposed some sort of GIS > tracking for proper distribution of collected EV taxes that would replace > fuel tax. > > Many states depend heavily on these fuel taxes to maintain their > roadways. Tourist states like Florida use fuel tax as a partial substitute > for income tax. >
Re: [Vo]:OT: Energy and taxation
Or you could have the option to drive more than the number of miles you purchased. In that situation you would begin to owe money. Harry On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:24 PM H LV wrote: > No more unsafe than running out charge or gasoline in the "middle of > nowhere". > These days it is hard to end up in the middle of nowhere. > The internet will soon be available everywhere. > > harry > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:17 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> H LV wrote: >> >> One could purchase miles for a special key which would let the user start >>> the vehicle. The key would be able to read the car's odometer and deduct >>> miles accordingly. >>> >> >> That sounds unsafe. If you ran out of miles, you might be stranded in >> the middle of nowhere, unable to start the car. >> >>
Re: [Vo]:OT: Energy and taxation
No more unsafe than running out charge or gasoline in the "middle of nowhere". These days it is hard to end up in the middle of nowhere. The internet will soon be available everywhere. harry On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:17 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > H LV wrote: > > One could purchase miles for a special key which would let the user start >> the vehicle. The key would be able to read the car's odometer and deduct >> miles accordingly. >> > > That sounds unsafe. If you ran out of miles, you might be stranded in > the middle of nowhere, unable to start the car. > >
Re: [Vo]:OT: Energy and taxation
One could purchase miles for a special key which would let the user start the vehicle. The key would be able to read the car's odometer and deduct miles accordingly. Harry On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 3:37 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > I think an annual tag fee based on miles driven would be the best > solution. You would have to bring the car into a licensed mechanic who > fills in an online form with the odometer reading. Monitoring distance > driven every day or on roads as cars pass is too complicated and expensive. > Reading an odometer once a year would cost practically nothing. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 1:13 PM H LV wrote: > >> As energy options change, methods of taxation will change as well. >> >> >> https://driving.ca/auto-news/driver-info/with-evs-on-the-way-what-comes-after-the-gas-tax >> >> harry >> >
[Vo]:OT: Energy and taxation
As energy options change, methods of taxation will change as well. https://driving.ca/auto-news/driver-info/with-evs-on-the-way-what-comes-after-the-gas-tax harry
Re: [Vo]:OT: steam locomotive
Thanks. So it was a "gag". Harry On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 12:58 PM MSF wrote: > > I take it I'm the only Vort with first-hand experience with these old > beasts. My grandfather was a brakeman on the Union Pacific railroad when I > was a little boy. Back then, while all the passenger trains were > diesel-electric, a lot of the freight haulers were still steam. Old Gramps > would take me down to the yard and have one of his engineer friends let me > ride in one of the steam locomotives once in while. > I can't tell you how much fun that was. > > There is no steam where Buster Keaton appears to light his cigarette. > That's the smoke box, the least hot part of the boiler where the exhaust > from the coal fire goes. I'm sure the cigarette was already lit. I know > from trying, if you touch the side of a steam locomotive, it's about as hot > as clothing iron. You can wet your finger and make it go kssst. > > After this long nostalgic preamble, the answer to your question is no. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 11:55 PM, H LV > wrote: > > In this short clip Buster Keaton lights a cigarette by pressing it against > the boiler of a steam locomotive. > Would the surface of the boiler get hot enough to do that? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AIyB_-HYcs > > Harry > > >
Re: [Vo]:OT: steam locomotive
The changing dreamscape. We don't really know how steam engines would have evolved because they were out-competed by diesel engines. The steam engine really became obsolete because it was incapable of turning *particular* dreams into reality. Harry On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 9:08 PM William Beaty wrote: > > Live steam. No upper temperature limit. Steam jet flays tissue right > off bones, chars bones.Also, OST Buster Keaton inertial compensators, > for infinite-acceleration brakes, back when Star Trek was still in > the silent film era, and only had one warp nacelle, painted black. > > > > > On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, H LV wrote: > > > In this short clip Buster Keaton lights a cigarette by pressing it > against > > the boiler of a steam locomotive. > > Would the surface of the boiler get hot enough to do that? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AIyB_-HYcs > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) > William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:OT Michael Shellenberger opposes California's gas car phase out
We only need to phase out the use of *gasoline* and other fuels derived from oil. The ICE itself is not obsolete technology. harry On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 10:41 AM Jed Rothwell wrote: > This guy makes some valid points, but there is a lot of misinformation and > mistakes about history in what he says. Two points in particular: > > Electric cars will not be a burden on the power grid if most of them are > charged overnight. They will cause the power grid to consume more natural > gas, but overall much less energy and CO2 emissions than gasoline would. > They would be a problem if they were charged during the day. With modern > power meters, electric power rates can be set to avoid this. > > Obsolete technology has often been banned. He says we did not ban horses > to bring in automobiles. That is incorrect. In the course of the 19th and > 20th centuries, horses were banned first to facilitate railroads, then > electric streetcars, and then automobiles. Horses were never supposed to be > allowed on railroad tracks. Railroad companies have been trying to stop > pedestrians, horses, cows and wildlife from using their right of way since > railroads began. Horse drawn urban streetcars were widely used in the 19th > century. Electric streetcars (trolley cars) were introduced starting in > 1881. For a short while, on some lines, a mix of horse drawn and electric > streetcars were used, but this was soon prohibited because it caused many > delays and accidents. Horses were banned from most urban public streets > soon after automobiles became widespread, after 1918. They were still > common in rural roads and small towns. They were never allowed on freeways > and highways designed for automobiles. They could not be used. Such roads > are banked, for speeds of 30 to 60 mph. A horse drawn vehicle would tip > over. > >
