Re: [Vo]:PESN reports zirconium cold fusion in Poland
>From Peter, > I have also found this, have not the slightest idea if hydrogen is present > or not. I will try to find out the documents in the original languages- I > have a long experience in collaboration with Russian and Ukrainian > inventors- YUSMAR, INTERENERGORESURS etc. > If there is hydrogen present, will they tell? Maybe yes, maybe no. Thank you Peter! Please keep us informed. I was also wondering the same thing that Jones just expressed. BTW: Jones, "election" - "electron"... what's a couple of jumbled letters to a dyslexic like me! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Independent test of Rossi E-Cat
>From Jed: ... > If he can secure intellectual > property with a patent, he is worth every euro of the money Defkalion plans > to pay him. I assume the investors at Defkalion know a thing or two about > patents, and they have reason to believe he can get one. ...which brings up the question as to how Rossi & Defkalion might best go about getting the e-cat patented. Since I gather the e-cat is considered a "cold fusion" device no patent office at present considers the technology legitimate. Wouldn't t Rossi have to do something like demonstrate the device in front of a bunch patent lawyers? And if so, couldn't such a demonstration be performed right now at the U of Bologna while "independent" testing is being conducted? ...at the same time? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?
>From Harry > How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper? > http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473 > > The Lone Proton...masked marvel. "Hi Ho! Hydrino!" (Sorry, Silver. You're still my favorite horse.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:So close, so far away
Interesting speculation, Jones. I never read Stolper's book. Nevertheless, I remember his scrappy posts from the old Yahoo Hydrino group, particularly as he incessantly went after Zimmerman. Does Stolper's book reveal any kind of useful detail as to what kind of additional "catalysts" might have been used in the old 40 pound Ni-H cell? I'm wondering if one were to do some data mining on the matter one could possibly end up with a reasonable facsimile/extrapolation as to the chemistry Rossi & Co. are currently using as a catalyst for their e-Cat. Is such an extrapolation appropriate here, or not? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: "It's a nuclear reaction" / The used powder contains ten percent copper
>From Jones: > The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an[d] copper > is electromigration. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. I must apologize for not being sufficiently clear as to what I was really questioning: What is generating the massive amount of heat? I gather the responsible party still remains an unknown quality - especially considering your concluding remark: > Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. ...which also seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: "It's a nuclear reaction" / The used powder contains ten percent copper
>From Stephen ... > It's more likely that Levi is in on the gag than that > transmutation from nickel to copper produced "natural" > isotope ratios in the ash. The former merely requires > the assumption that a few humans are acting unusually > stupid (which happens frequently). The latter requires > something close to a miracle (and miracles are very rare). Stephen, why is it that when expected results (such as in this latest case, the predicted isotopic shifts don't materialize the way we assume they should) the suspicion of fraud, misinterpretation of the data, and/or collusion once again become the most likely explanations for you. >From what I have read there remains a lot of carefully measured heat that can't be explained chemically. Your apparent sudden capitulation would seem to imply that all that carefully measured heat must be "fraudulent" as well. I so, I suspect many would beg to differ with you on that point. Correct me if I have misinterpreted you, but associating theoretical expectations that suddenly don't pan out as a reason to suddenly invalidate the heat measurements, as you seem to be doing here, strikes me as a defensive tactic, to protect one's psyche from anticipated disappointment. For me, based on the fact that the heat measurements appear to be extremely accurate, the only logical conclusion that I can arrive it is the simple fact that we don't yet have a decent theory as to what is really happening. I can live with such mysteries... for now. A theoretical mystery... what fun! I can live with such mysteries because the heat measurements appear to be very accurate. For me, that's what's important. "Fire... Good! Fire is your friend!" Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: "It's a nuclear reaction" / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Stephen, Urgent Addendum: Just to be clear on this point, my speculation was pertaining to whether you were now suspicious of the HEAT measurements. In truth I must admit the fact that you seem to be questioning the isotopic shifts, not the actual HEAT measurements. My apologies if I have misinterpreted your intentions. I often misinterpret. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: "It's a nuclear reaction" / The used powder contains ten percent copper
>From Jones > From: Terry Blanton > >> If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through > the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? > > That is probably net necessary. It looks to me like a copper pipe, for heat > transfer, may go into the reactor itself. Plus, if I am not mistaken the > patent application says something similar. Makes me wonder if some other metal other than copper could be substituted, for testing purposes. Wouldn't that be reasonably easy to do? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Sergio Focardi interviewed (not yet in english!)
>From Akira, ... > - Focardi doesn't know the exact composition of the catalyser used in the > reactor (in addition to nickel powder) or what it does exactly but he > suspects that it's a chemical compound promoting nickel's adsorption of > hydrogen in atomic form rather than molecular. Maybe something got lost in the translation here, but find it surprising that Focardi apparently doesn't know the composition of the catalyzer used in Rossi's reactor. Are we to assume Rossi hasn't told him? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Sergio Focardi interviewed (not yet in english!)
>From Akira > On 2011-04-06 18:58, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: > > I'm quite sure Focardi told that he doesn't know the composition (nor he > wants to know - he added). By catalyzer I mean the unknown compound which > enhances the nickel-hydrogen reaction. Really! Does he say why he doesn't want to know? The only speculation that makes any sense to me might be for personal safety reasons. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: "It's a nuclear reaction" / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Jones sez: ... > Wow, gotta luv that the Rossi apparatus does work - apparently - but doesn't > it > just scream "cheap"? Off the rack at K-Mart cheap... Heh! It will probably result in an extra month of delays over at DoE getting their s**t in gear... particularly if they deem to look at the latest photos. At first glance NOBODY in their right mind would logically conclude that Rossi's device could be legitimate. Looks more like a badly designed sump pump than an energy catalyzer. > Actually, that is one of the real beauties of it - to my warped mentality - > getting the > job done adequately with the least investment. Indeed. > And if he had used expensive stainless vacuum high-grade physics lab gear? > - guess what, sport fans - It probably would not have worked ! > > Seriously, I would be willing to bet that the copper migration is what makes > it work. No kidding. They should try stainless vacuum high-grade gear - sans copper too. See what happens! All bets are off! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Are you falling for it?
Regarding Terry recent breakthrough... OMG! The resemblance is uncanny! "This Island Earth" was a great SF flick for its time. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047577/ http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.funwithfilms.com/images/this-island-earth1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.funwithfilms.com/this-island-earth/&h=446&w=650&sz=62&tbnid=TkxuNR1pKCUUNM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dthis%2Bisland%2Bearth%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=this+island+earth&hl=en&usg=__wjrl8N_tgoIuja1mZ6ZQk4TgHQg=&sa=X&ei=GRmfTa-LNIa-tgeepuWWAw&ved=0CFkQ9QEwBQ http://tinyurl.com/5wf98dg BTW, those high forehead aliens reminded me of Adamski's Venusian brothers. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:physics engines for dummies
http://www.wildbunny.co.uk/blog/2011/04/06/physics-engines-for-dummies/ Good primer. Reveals computer algorithms used. Have fun messing around with interactive animated white balls! The interactive chaotic pendulum engine near the end of the article is my favorite. Teaches you a'lot about chaotic systems. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Are you falling for it?
>From Harry: > How does it [This Island Earth] compare to "Forbidden Planet?" Similar caliber. However, FP is a notch better, IMHO! "Monsters from the ID!" Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Rossi's eCat is Steam Punk
Culturally speaking, Rossi's eCat (eKittin) technology reminds me of a very popular science fiction genre known as "Steam Punk." Steam Punk has its origins that can be traced back many decades. Curiously, within recent history, the genre has become a thriving sub-culture within the science fiction community. Steam Punk has spawned many popular novels and films in recent history. Basically speaking, Steam Punk exists as an alternate universe, one that seems to revolve around what might be called old world technology, technology based more on the rules of alchemy rather than Quantum Mechanics. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_punk This comparison/revelation hit me like a ton of bricks last night while my wife read out-loud a brief passage from a Steam Punk novel she is currently reading. I found myself thinking about the recent PDF report which includes photos of several eCats in various stages of having been dismantled. The visual flavor looking at all of those dirty copper pipes couldn't have been any closer to what steam punk "technology" is all about. This is speculation on my part, but it would seem as if many gifted Steam Punk writers, without realizing it, have tapped into an alternate universe - as if some part of their psyche unconsciously sensed the distinct possibility that this other world must actually exist somewhere for real. They longed to pull that reality into our universe where we could explore it in more detail. Perhaps their novels helped sparked unconscious speculation on the matter, eventually resulting in bringing Steam Punk "technology" to fruition in our universe. FWIW, a sub-culture such as Steam Punk doesn't thrive as well as it does unless there is something substantial underneath it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:A right wing conservative publication takes notice of Rossi
Looks like a super conservative xenophobic anti communist right-wing tea party web site has taken notice of Rossi's work - briefly that is. Scroll down to the eleventh paragraph: http://americandaily.com/index.php/article/4861 Seems to me that if such groups are at least aware of the event, and that many of them view it in a cautiously positive manner, I take it as encouraging news for Rossi & Co. Possibly less trouble and/or resistance when things start heating up. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A right wing conservative publication takes notice of Rossi
>> Looks like a super conservative xenophobic anti communist right-wing >> tea party web site has taken notice of Rossi's work - briefly that is. > > You, er, visit these web pages frequently? I got all my shots before I left. I never drink the water either. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Fwd: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat CATALYST Speculation Thread
>From Peter Gluck: ... > I don't uinderstend exactly your idea with the prper pressure- they add > hydrogen, this is adsorbed in part, you cannot add exactly a dosis of > hydrogen- but surely there is a "best practices" type protocol here. My apologies, Peter. Let me try to clarify my previous pressure statement. Since the Vort Collective IS known to occasionally speculate extravagantly at times... The following is a massively edited transcript originating from a completely unorthodox and totally unscientific source. Never the less, this unorthodox source occasionally gives me interesting tidbits of information that have caused me to ponder, people, events & history in ways that I might not have pondered otherwise. Therefore, - and for what it's worth... ;-) I was told me that some of the spurious results that have plagued the CF community for the past 20 years is due to the fact that the process is extremely susceptible to environmental/weather changes. This includes high and low pressure weather patterns. The implication was that when a mundane weather pattern, such as when a cold front passes through the lab, the environmental conditions could affect the experiment in seemingly unpredictable but dramatic ways. When I heard this statement it suggested to me that it might be useful to go back through some of the old experiments and determine what the "weather" barometric pressure might have been at the time the certain experiments suddenly began generating massive amounts of heat. I'm not sure if this would be helpful however since I gather many labs had numerous experiments running simultaneously - and some would suddenly take off while the others remained stubbornly dormant. Obviously, there must be other "environmental" factors at play as well. The same unorthodox source implied that the current "Rossi" process still has "impurities" (contaminants in the nickel powder - I believe). These contaminants need to be refined out of the chemistry in order to make the process more robust than it currently is (as if it isn't robust enough as-is!). They have no doubt that those "impurities" will be located and removed. They also cautioned that this particular process, if not engineered properly, is capable of generating harmful toxic impurities that could be released into the environment. Such unwanted contaminants could enter the water table where it could remain harmful for centuries. It was not clear to me if the "impurities" being discussed might have been chemical and/or radioactive in nature. I suspect it might have been the latter - meaning radioactive. They stated the necessary engineering" that would be needed to make the technology "safe" should not difficult to engineer. Some here might find it amusing to ponder the fact that this unorthodox source stated that what Rossi and Focardi have been pursuing is nothing more than carrying on a centuries-old (old world) European tradition, one that is close to the art of what we in the western world would call "alchemy". (This BTW, should help explain why I have recently been mentioning "Steam Punk!" in some of my Vort posts.) Old farts like Rossi and Focardi are instinctively comfortable with how to manipulate these old-world alchemical "technologies". It's is right up their alley. Such alchemical explorations at present tend to baffle "modern" western world scientific sensibilities. Nevertheless, I'm sure nuclear explanations will eventually be determined. When believable "nuclear" explanations are "theorized" the western world will probably start feeling much more comfortable with what's going on! >8-0. Economically speaking, I got the distinct impression that they predict that this "technology" will eventually be accepted by the world, this despite initial economic resistance to marginalize it. Most of the initial resistance, I was told, will NOT be due to the newness of technology itself, but rather due to the complicated global economic issues that will have to be addressed first. We have to find ways to make the new technology profitable within the current economic institutions in power in order to move it into a reality. I hope that some of the Vort Collective enjoyed the entertainment! And now, back to regularly scheduled programming. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Musical "Electric Chairs" ? CORRECTION
Jones sez: ... > In effect, he [Rossi] has trumped Mills at his own game. Agreed, except for the caveat that if Mills' can get his CIHT process off the ground BLP might still have a fighting chance. It might eventually turn into a practical evaluation of determining whether in Rossi's "low-tech" system of heating steam to turn turbines to generate electricity is more complicated than Mills' more exotic system of generating electricity directly via through a complicated mechanical catalytic regeneration approach. At this stage of the game both approaches appear to have inherent technological complexities that must be mastered. Different approaches + competition = a good thing. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Is it nuclear, or is it Memorex?
Some of us may still remember that classic video add where Ella Fitzgerald sings a hearty tune. It's a spontaneous ditty which ends with the shattering of a crystal glass as Ella belts out a final high note. The commercial subsequently proceeds to play back a Memorex tape recording of Fitzgerald's voice. The playback causes another crystal glass to shatter. The commercial ends, asking us: "Is it live or is it Memorex!" The burning question many Vorts are probably asking themselves these days is whether Rossi's mysterious e-cats devices are due to "live" nuclear effects... or are we in the process of recording the equivalent of another "Memorex" moment in the zany annals of fissix. IOW, does the Rossi effect generate classic nuclear reactions, or will it usher in brand new forms of physics which, due to our current lack of understanding, seems to mimic nuclear effects. I'm surprised to discover the fact that I'm coming around to a tentative notion that that what's probably happening is NOT nuclear at all... at least not in the classic sense. There seems to be considerable disagreement as to whether copper and other elements, like iron, were really being "transmuted" from nickel - or did these extraneous elements (what might be called contaminants) simply migrate over and intermingle with the nickel powder. The obvious catch, the huge elephant that seems to be missing in many theoretical equations currently being bandied about is: how-cum no harmful radiation appears to have been generated? What's responsible for all of Rossi's glorious but unaccounted for heat? It's my understanding that the amount of "radiant" heat Rossi had to have been exposed to over the many years he was tinkering away in his lab... well, if this really is a "nuclear effect" he should be very thoroughly dead by now. Not only that, he should probably be sealed within a lead lined coffin and buried deep under a lot of neutron absorbing earth and concrete. At present we find ourselves feverishly speculating: Could the heat be the result of harnessing a mysterious and not understood casimir effect? Could it be due to ZPE flagrantly exposing itself out in the macro world? Could it be due to a variant of the Widom-Larsen effect, where ultra-low-momentum neutrons ramble aimlessly about within the nickel lattice like dimwitted bulls stumbling about in a china chop? Could it be due to not well understood quantum mechanical nuclear effects (fusion/lenr/canr)? Could it be due to pesky no-see-um hydrinos? Or is it possibly due to one of my favorites: alchemy, the Steam Punk variety! There exists a plethora of theories all doing their best to explain what's happening. No doubt we are likely to be exposed to several more before scientific consensus begins the arduous task of whittling through the selections - down to something more manageable. In the meantime, it's important we do our best to maintain an impartial, objective perspective as we ponder the latest "special of the day". Exploring the ramifications of each new theory and the explanations that go along with them is both healthy and a crucial part of the R&A process, particularly when we are confronted with something as outrageously "hot" as Rossi's e-Cat device. To restate the obvious, we are probably in for a period of outrageous discovery, the kind of scientific "discovery" that is sure to ruffle many an established feather. As an honorable member of the peanut gallery it would seem that I have only one viable option left to me: Gawk! My wife is rustling up a bucket of popcorn and a soda from the concession stand while I empty my bladder in the men's room. We're looking to seat ourselves close to front row. There's still time. Previews and coming attractions are still playing - to be followed by a short-feature cartoon, from Pixar of course! But don't dally too long! The main feature is about to start, possibly in less than 12 months. Tick, tick, tick... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Tarallo Water Diversion Fake
>From Stephen: ... >> http://www.toysteam.net/wid15final.wmv >> >> Great stuff! >> >> Rossi should get a 4 kW steam engine for his next demo. > > Hey, if he does that, he can close the loop, and get rid of the external > power supply for the heater! ... Oh, the irony of it all! Granted, to prove that OU exists we all want to see Rossi close the loop on his gadget. However, as has been tragically revealed at the Fukushima nuclear plant, for safety reasons, completely closing the loop is not a good idea. I seem to recall Rossi expressed similar safety issues in terms of maintaining temperature stability within the e-cat reactor core. Meanwhile, I must confess the fact that I'm still confused over the matter of how the supplied external heater actually helps "stabilize" Rossi's reactor core. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What Rossi Says list... add "emissions seen in the 100keV-300keV range"
>From Mark: > Rossi: No radioactivity has been found in the residual metals, it is true, > but the day after the stop of the operation. In any case you are right, if > 59-Cu is formed from 58-Ni we should have the couples of 511 keV at 180° and > we never found them, while we found keV in the range of 100-300 keV. Is the 100 - 300 KeV range within the speculated reality rage of hydrino formation? Just curious. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Is it nuclear, or is it Memorex?
Robin, Harry, Just to clarify some of my ramblings... My use of the term "alchemy" was an oversimplified reference to the desire to transmute common elements into valuable elements... i.e. the desire to "transmute" lead into gold. The point I was trying to imply is that the old-world "alchemical" (almost ritualistic) pursuit of creating gold from common elements is, in a sense, metaphorically equivalent to the new-world pursuit of generating lots of clean cheap excess heat, or energy. I would even go so far as to speculate here that what Rossi seems to be doing with his e-cat reactors is analogous to an alchemical "ritual" - in the sense that if you follow the recipe to the letter, and in the right sequence, it would seem that you can end up generating lots of heat. No one yet knows why these "ritualistic" sequences-of-events work in the manner that they do. That's what rituals are really good at doing: Producing a desired result, particularly when the fundamental physics that might scientifically explain what's happening remains (a present) a baffling mystery. Alas, I've often noted that some of the metaphors I conjure up occasionally cause more confusion than their intended purpose. Win a few metaphors... lose a few metaphors. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Quality control in cold fusion.
Horace sez: ... > As to Rossi, his quality control rested with the only person with the skills > to produce his nickel catalyst mix, an old man in his 80's working away on > an old machine. My imagination sees this happening in a poorly lit room > somewhere in a decaying rustic European building. That's the way it should > be in the film version anyway. 8^) ...a decaying rustic European building out in the country. A barn. With an occasional pigeon dropping added to the mixture. Ah! The catalyst! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Deflated P-e-P
>From Jones: ... > 3) However, it is occasionally possible to shoot protons at each other with > the right speed and quark positions so that they latch on to each other - > held in place by the Strong Force. Without one of the protons converting into a neutron? I thought that was impossible. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Heat transfer in a water heater and nuclear plant
>From Jed: ... > The tankless heater is Niagara brand 12 kW electrically fired unit > that belongs to a friend of mine. See: > http://www.tanklesswaterheater.com/faq.php > It produces 5 gallons a minute, which is about one-third the flow > rate of the Feb. 10 Rossi machine test. > I asked my friend to look inside the water heater. He reports > there are two resistance heaters. They are conical, about 1.5" > at the top, 2" at the bottom, 6" long. That is ~18.9 cubic inches, > or 309 cm^3. The two of them together are 0.6 L. They would > easily fit inside the Rossi gadget. They transfer 12 kW to the > flowing water reliably for years. The shape and size of the > Rossi cell is not known, but assuming it is cylindrical with fairly > large surface area, the performance of this water heater > indicates it should have no difficulty transferring 16 kW. I was wondering how long it would take for Mr. Rothwell to come up with some practical statistics on the Rossi heat-transfer matter. Not long at all! ;-) I suspect the recent heat transfer disagreement, as expressed between Rothwell and Beene, is of great interest to many Vort participants. As I understand it, there appears to have been legitimate concerns raised as to whether there exists sufficient SURFACE AREA within Rossi's e-Cat reactor in which to allow a sufficient amount of heat to transfer from the core of the reactor to the adjacent water flowing nearby. Heat transference is indeed a tricky issue. The more volume there is to contend with the more problematic it becomes in transferring (or expelling) internal heat. In fact an object in the shape of a perfect sphere would be the worst case scenario for expelling excess heat. That is why one tends to see, for example, rows and rows of metallic flanges acting as heat sinks attached to motorcycle engines. That is done in order to increase the surface area in which to dump/expel excess heat. If Rossi's e-cat reactors contain lots of tiny metal flanges, acting as heat sinks that would help in the heat transfer as well. Personally, I suspect, Rossi is probably not employing such internal designs with his current e-cat design. It would, however, be a good suggestion to consider for future designs - if excess heat becomes an issue. It would seem to me that Mr. Rothwell has revealed reasonably convincing statistics to suggest that there probably exist sufficient "surface area". However, that remains to be verified since I gather the guts of the Rossi device are still proprietary. In the meantime, I suspect Mr. Beene will probably not find Mr. Rothwell's analysis convincing, and I fully expect a counter response. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Heat transfer in a water heater and nuclear plant
Jones sez: ... > Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most > important development in Energy for some extended time ... > hmmm, the Neolithic age comes to mind, according to > Randy :) ... but this may be the first time in Vortician-land > for having a "play-by-play" and ongoing commentator to > moderate the game. ah... a self-appointed moderator... for what it's worth. ;-) > I was hoping it would be Ines Sainz... Oh well, maybe next year Yes, nice e-Cats! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Heat transfer in a water heater and nuclear plant
On a more serious note, someone who may have achieved some street creed with Rossi might want to pop this interesting heat transfer question to Ross at his blog. It might be interesting to see how Rossi responds. Could be highly revealing. Peter Gluck, comes to mind as the "volunteer" for his dangerous mission! ;-) Perhaps we should first wait for Beene's forthcoming heat-transference data before popping the question. Heat transference is indeed a tricky engineering problem. As volume increases it becomes vital to increase the amount of surface area where heat transfer can occur. Thus heat flanges and fins are created to assist in this endeavor. Internal cooling coils and tubes can also be built into solid blocks of "volume", to assist in the dissipation of heat. However, there is a subtle point that might have been overlooked here. Consider the flip side. As overall volume decreases excess surface area becomes LESS critical because what volume exists can more easily escape - since all "volume" is relatively close to a surface area. Therefore... it IS conceivable from my POV that Rossi's smaller e-kittins might be able to more efficiently transfer heat due to their inherent smaller volume as compared to the bigger sisters, the e-cat. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Fuel rod surface area versus 1 liter bottle
>From Jones, >> From Rothwell: >> I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental >> evidence, not crackpot theories that predict water heaters >> don't work. If you will not give us a plausible reason why >> this calorimetry might be wrong by a factor of 1000 then you >> lose this debate. > This “1000 times” thing is an insane slander with no basis > in fact, as are these other silly pronouncements that you have > dreamed up, and that is part of why I cannot take any of your > “teapot arguments” seriously. That they were off by a factor > of three, due to the wrong gauge - is what I have said over > and over. Wet steam is not dry steam, and a factor of 3 is > not a factor of 1000. > > Please, in the interest of your own integrity – move on to > something more productive than inventing straw man arguments. > > When the Swedish experiments are complete, and there is little > doubt that they will be performed to higher standards - then I > will remind you of how far off you were to think the Bologna > demo was accurate. I am, of course, emotionally predisposed to want to side with Mr. Rothwell for the simple reason that, well... who wouldn't want COP to be higher than what Jones is suggesting - even if Jones' COP is OU as well. (Just not as much! ;-) ) I fully admit the possibility that my emotional investment might be hindering me from observing what might be called the "obvious" facts in a more objective manner. With that confession fully disclosed I would like to add a few personal observations: Correct me if I'm wrong on this point but I seem to recall "second opinions" have been posted here that seem to favor conclusions that suggest 15kW is not out of the question. For example, See Robin's calculations: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg45116.html Jones, what personally bothers me about some of the conclusions you seem to be drawing here is not the actual conclusions themselves, per say, but the manner in which you are attempting to conclude your conclusions. Beside the disquieting fact that your "expert" at present remains anonymous, and as such we cannot ascertain his credentials... in your last paragraph you seem to be implying that you have become an unofficial spokesperson for the Swedish board currently investigating Rossi's e-Cat device. Do you speak on behalf of these Swedes? Have they personally granted you special coverage that allows you to draw the conclusions you have been implying? Such support reminds me of a similar issue that has been hotly contested within the Vort Collective: It's vaguely reminiscent of Krivit's support of the W-L theory, after presumably having been granted special access; the key point being: special access to what. Seemingly speaking on behalf of the Swedes in the manner that you apparently are doing has a tendency at least from my POV of raising some questions as to how objective are you really being here as well. All we can really do at this point is wait for the Swedes to present their findings. Perhaps we can then draw more accurate conclusions. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Only a matter of time
Jones Beene recently stated: > Of all Rossi’s problems, the patent situation seems to > be the most grim if he can get through this year and the > October demo. Don’t forget that in addition to Mills IP, > we know that Mitchell Swartz and several others in Japan, > Italy, India and elsewhere have been reporting gains in > NiH for years, and Mitchell for one has patent > applications in place (that most likely have priority > over Rossi). How many others are out there ?? I suspect pretty much everyone on this list wishes Rossi (warts and all) the best of luck, including Jones. The recent fascinating technical (spat?) between Jones and Rothwell brings to bare the fact that what is being "discussed" more and more these days is the DEGREE of exploitable heat, not whether there is any heat worth exploiting at all. We are beginning to argue over whether the dinner plate is loaded up with a pile 150 steaming asparagus sprigs dipped in hollandaise sauce or whether the pile is instead a more modest number of 10. At least nobody (of any intelligence) is arguing whether there is any asparagus at all. ;-) There is a growing list of "contendas"... BLP, Swarts, Japan, India... All this is encouraging news. An underground race to build the first commercially viable "CF" reactor is in progress. (With appropriate apologies to Mills and Co and their misaligned hydrinos.) I think it's only a matter of time. Gentlemen, and women, place your bets. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: Rothwell goes into brain freeze
>From Jed: ... > ... I believe the > reaction works best at around 600°C and it conks out above that. Can someone clarify the following: What is the internal temperature the reactor cell has to reach in order to initiate the Rossi reaction? I thought the reaction takes over when the temperature reaches the neighborhood of around 400 C. Or am I all wet on that. If it IS 400 C, it would seem to me that the reaction then increasing to 600 C... a mere +200 C more, (before it conks out) does not strike me as being terribly efficient. I must be missing something vital in regards to understanding the physics of calometry here. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A wiki for compiling Rossi's hints
> http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator:Rossi's_Hints To everyone who worked on creating this Wiki Rossi Hints directory. THANKS A BUNCH! I would think it should be fairly easy to update it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: shrinking felines
>From gotjosh: > Its really entertaining and all, but do you two really have to > pollute every single thread with this stuff? are you twin brothers > from a former life who just bicker constantly as a way of > showing love? Adding to Terry's "Kommentary" Jones and Rothwell have been known to spar with each other on occasion. (This is nothing new! I suspect they simply rub each other the wrong way, and there's nothing much we can do about that other than not get between them! ;-) ) I personally perceive this particular incident as having gotten, perhaps, a little more heated than usual, but not unduly so. Heated or not, I tend to learn interesting stuff digesting the POVs expressed from both sides of the fence. Keep in mind the fact there really was no character assassination going on here, the hallmark of a flame war. The only items being assassinated here were the other person's opinions and personal perceptions concerning the accumulation of "scientific evidence" (or more precisely the alleged lack of it). As one can see, opinions on such matters can occasionally get passionate within the Vort Collective. Personally, I didn't perceive this latest exchange as "pollution". More like an unstable but interesting warm front. ;-) Speaking of warm fronts, we could use one in the Midwest. There's snow on the ground in Madison, Wisconsin. I thought we were done with this white stuff! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: Rothwell goes into brain freeze
Jones sez ... > ...all of this nonsense is explained by Rothwell picking > out an irrelevant detail in a long thread, and ignoring > everything else - in order to cover his trail in case the > Swedish testing does conform to my prediction. Defense Team: Your honor, I object! The prosecution is describing the speculated motivations of the defendant. Judge: Sustained. Prosecution is advised to swear in the defendant, where you can then ask him in the chair if this was his intention. Otherwise, stop speculating. We are not anywhere near making closing statements. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Flow calorimetry cannot detect the power of the cooling water circulation pump
>From Jones: ... > We cannot assume honesty from a man like Rossi who > is seldom honest. > > Not to mention – this demo was Rossi’s tribute event > to Focardi – maybe a kind of pre-eulogy. > > Rossi had every incentive to fudge the results, to make > it look better than it was, or in case something went wrong. Jones, correct me if I have misunderstood your position on this matter but it seems to me that much of your analysis hinges on a personal belief that Rossi is, at heart, motivated to behave in a dishonest way. You have been implying that Rossi is a dishonest person. Obviously, we can all capiche the fact that Rossi's is hiding crucial details. His deliberate withholding of crucial (proprietary) information obviously frustrates many, especially those who are trying to discern how his elusive e-kitties work. Few here dispute the fact that some of Rossi's commentary is contradictory. Many would even go far as saying that certain actions on Rossi's part seem to lack credibility, such as an apparent bogus engineering degree issued from what I gather has been discovered to have been a diploma mill. Mr. Rothwell certainly has eluded to such faults plenty of times over the months. I gather such faults & contradictions have driven him nuts. However, and IMHO, to openly speculate that Rossi is being deliberately dishonest, and in the manner that you seem to be doing strikes me as almost prosecutorial in nature. It lacks a certain level analytical objectivity. It seems to me that you have been going after Rossi character as if you were the District Attorney for some county board, or government consumer protection agency. It's as if you have received complaints from sources who have been grumbling over the fact that the constant string of ramblings from Rossi's blog don't always add up... therefore, Rossi must be hiding something. And if Rossi's hiding something, that must mean he's Rossi is a dishonest person. Therefore if we assume Rossi is dishonest what's motivating Rossi's dishonesty. Suddenly, the mind starts conjuring up a plethora of justifications, many based on fragmentary bits and pieces of information previously gleaned from Rossi's ramblings. You are now speculating OUT LOUD that Rossi is motivated to behave dishonestly as a tribute to his partner, Focardi, who is in ill health. How far do you want to take such personal speculation? Personally, I would suggest that you might want to start backing up subjective speculations of this nature with actual objective PROOF. Otherwise, you are in danger of eroding your own credibility when it comes to convincing others as to your scientific analysis of the disputed heat measurements. Expressing these kinds of subjective speculation only opens the door allowing many to wonder if your scientific analysis is just as subjective. Judge Johnson is now leaving the bench. Here come de judge! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:New from Larsen
>From Jones: > http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llcnickelseed-lenr-networksapril-20-2011 > > Impressive presentation! But is it built on a foundation of sand? > > Boy, these guys must have a high quality PR firm, staffed with > multi-media whizzes at work 24/7… but are they trying to salvage > a brain-dead theory, and apply it to NiH by capitalizing on the > Rossi frenzy? > > Big bucks going into fancy pantsy PR presentations combined > with zero good lab work does not look good for the future of > the field. I'm not sure everyone would agree with "...zero good lab work", but I'm definitely not the expert here. When I look at Larsen's slide show the graphics that always intrigue me are the ones shown on plate 14 pertaining to "Five-peak mass-spectrum: ULM neutron 'fingerprint' - l" ...What Larsen proponents call the 'smoking gun'. The findings would seem to suggest that there might be some physical evidence to back up their claim. (However, I'm not qualified to pass judgment, yea or nay.) What are the prevailing thoughts on what is actually being represented here? IS this possibly a 'smoking gun'? And if not, why not? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:New from Larsen
>From Albedo: > Finally, spectral data to look at! I can show this to some of the ten-pound > heads I work with - one of whom is well-recognized in the neutron detection > field...if I can get him to take this seriously. If I could get the actual > data, I have several state of the art tools I can use to analyse gamma > spectra and neutron signatures, and perhaps even neutron spectra. > > I have been out of the loop with what's been going on lately, so if such > data has come to light and I missed it, I apologise. Is there any spectral > data (raw, not in presentation form) available yet? Larsen has presented these graphics for a while. However, you are the first person I'm aware of who has noticed them to the point of actually wanting to get a second opinion. Good luck in your pursuits! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
The configuration might not be strange at all. One possible explanation: My take is that Rossi's e-kitten reactor "cell" might NOTbe positioned within the center of the copper pipe. The reactor "cell" might actually have been engineered in the shape of cylinder, or a ring that fits snugly adjacent within the external wall of the copper tube. Keep in mind: The copper tubing does appear to be fatter at the reactor junction. the water flows within the center of the reactor's cylindrical hole. This scenario would allow the auxiliary electric heater to heat the reactor "cell" directly, since the water is actually flowing within the interior of the reactor "cell's" cylindrical hole. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
>From Jed: > You mean, the cell is a torus? With the cooling water flowing > through the middle? Yes. > I believe that is what Ed Storms may have concluded. (I don't > speak for him.) I thought there might be a problem getting the > powder into a torus, because you can't access the bottom, but > people who have experience using this kind of powder tell me > it flows almost like a liquid. It does not cake up. So that's not > a problem. I envisioned something with the consistency of > wheat flower, but that is not what it resembles. Additional commentary: >From Harry: > Isn't that the same configuration Jones imagined? Dunno! Perhaps great minds think alike. ;-) If so, my/our configuration raises other equally vexing questions. If the e-kitten reactor cell is indeed engineered as a torus with a hole in the center for the water to flow through, such a configuration strikes me as being extremely inefficient thermally speaking. Only the heat radiating within the central ring of the reactor will transfer to the flowing water. Reactor heat radiating away from the exterior outer ring wall would not. Meanwhile, the external wall is where the auxiliary heater is positioned, and where it is transferring its own externally generated heat INTO the reactor cell. To be honest I find this entire configuration weird! Whatever... Jed has my sympathies. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
>From Jed: >> You mean, the cell is a torus? With the cooling water flowing through the >> middle? > > The problem with that would be: Why bother putting the copper shell around > the steel cell? If it is a torus, you can dispense with the copper shell, > and put the heater directly on the outside of the stainless steel cell. > In the 12 kW tankless water heater, the two electric resistance heaters have > a torus shape, with a copper pipe running through the middle. Ah, yes, but I just had another brain far... I mean storm! The exterior copper pipe lining/jacket which encases the external reactor "torus" wall might assist in the transfer of reactor heat to the adjacent flowing water. If the reactor "torus" had been built entirely outside of the copper tubing holding the flowing water only the internal "torus" wall of the reactor would be able to transfer heat to the adjacent water. The external wall of the "torus" configuration would not be able to transfer ANY of its heat to the flowing water. Just a thought. Someone who knows how to run Finite Element Heat Transfer software should run several simulations to see how generated heat might transfer using various reactor torus configurations... such as with copper pipe entirely encasing the reactor ring... and also with the copper pipe only within the internal hole of the torus. Probably a big difference between these two configurations. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
>From Akira >> From Steven V Johnson: >> >> The exterior copper pipe lining/jacket which encases >> the external reactor "torus" wall might assist in the >> transfer of reactor heat to the adjacent flowing water. >> If the reactor "torus" had been built entirely outside of >> the copper tubing holding the flowing water only >> the internal "torus" wall of the reactor would be able >> to transfer heat to the adjacent water. The external >> wall of the "torus" configuration would not be able to >> transfer ANY of its heat to the flowing water. > > I suspect the electric heater is not there to heat water, but to > heat hydrogen and increase its pressure inside the reactor > and therefore controlling the reaction together with water flow > (which cools the reactor). Once the Ni-H reaction starts, water > is heated by it. This is an intriguing hypothesis. I certainly agree with you that the heater is NOT there to heat the water! > Increasing heater power and decreasing water flow probably > stimulate Ni-H reaction, and vice-versa. I find it difficult to believe there would be any flowing water between the heater element and the e-Kitten reactor. If water was between them, it would be EXTREMELY difficult to raise the reactor cell's temperature much above 100 C. The water would have to be under tremendous pressure, like a pressure cooker, in order to increase temperatures significantly. Why would any mechanical engineer want do design a thermal transfer configuration like that! It's totally counter productive. Therefore, and IMHO, the auxiliary heating elements is most likely in direct physical contact with Rossi's e-Kittins. Therefore, a torus shape does seem to be the likely solution. The apparent fact that there is copper pipe lining between the heater and torus shaped reactor will allow heat to transfer fairly efficiently. In fact, having the copper between the heater and the reactor might help transfer some of the reactor's internal heat to the adjacent water as heat begins transferring /propagating down the copper pipe and into the water. Now, whether the auxiliary heating element is there to heat the nickle powder or the hydrogen - THAT is indeed a burning question! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Another "contenda?" - Cold fusion: Is Burnaby lab on brink of clean nuclear energy?
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Cold+fusion+Burnaby+brink+clean+nuclear+energy/4660666/story.html http://tinyurl.com/3n8c7j2 Excerpts: > When I phoned the company to request an interview, Michael Delage, > their vice-president of business development, politely declined, offering > the apologetic: "Call me in six months, and I might have something to > tell you." > > His resistance didn't surprise me. I had already been told by one of > General Fusion's chief investors, Vancouver's Chrysalix Energy > Venture Capital, that the company has been laying low since > BCBusiness magazine ran an in-depth profile on them in February. > According to the article, aptly titled "The Audacity of General Fusion," > the company was founded in 2002 by Michel Laberge, a highly > respected Vancouver physicist and engineer who earned his > doctorate in the obscure field of plasma physics at the University of > B.C. some 20 years ago. The story details how Laberge decided to > quit his high-profile job as senior physicist and principal engineer at > a multimillion dollar Vancouver digital imaging technology company > as he approached his 40th birthday in 2001, because he "didn’t want > to design another thermal head. He wanted to solve the world’s > energy problems." Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Kudos all around
My Gmail reader didn't notice any odd visual spacing problems with Beene's text. Nor does my MS Outlook 2007 reader. But yes, Alan's site is a valuable contribution to the cause. Thanks, Alan! Re gar ds Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Kudos all around
Regarding Alan's site: http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v322.php I noticed the "Printable PDF version" link appears to be broken. Any chance of fixing that? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another "contenda?" - Cold fusion: Is Burnaby lab on brink of clean nuclear energy?
My own personal assessment: CF? HF? Something else??? Who knows. After reading the article several times I still don't know WTF they are talking about. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Home Insurance for Those Living 'Off The Grid'
Potential sign of the times? http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/04/15/home-insurance-living-grid/ In their article I think foxbusiness is completely missing the real ramifications of what is coming down the pipeline. Nevertheless, and IMHO, home insurance with "off the grid coverage" is likely to become a booming business as "CF" reactors begin to hit the consumer market. I'd certainly consider getting coverage! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Mills takes the fifth
>From Ron Wormus: ... > If I read Mill's 5th force experiment correctly he is stating that > he has shown that gravitational mass & inertial mass are not > equivalent which supports Brightsen. ...and there goes Einstein's Theory of Relativity - melting into a puddle of goo. Oh, what a world! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Comic gets it right
Jones sez: ... > OTOH - we keep getting back to the problem of NRC approval, > or even UL approval. With proved particle detection and > real fusion, then we are back to being years away from > having the device approved in the USA. Adding more to the goose chase, let us not forget the fact that there are those who would like to denigrate the word "fusion", and replace it with what they believe is a more accurate term: "nuclear reaction." Perhaps if we all start calling the process a "nuclear reaction" the Underwriter's Laboratory will feel less threatened (because it's not really "fusion") ... and Wall Mart can start marketing the Rossi-Tea Pot sooner. Clear as mud? Making society richer and safer through the skills of political science! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:ROSSI FAKE or REAL
>From Alan, >> I'll fix it on Monday ... UNLESS, of course, there's a new report to >> evaluate! > > http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v323.php > http://lenr.qumbu.com > > Updated -- with PDF file. (why would anyone want to print out the 60+ pages > ???) Works! Thanks! Sometimes a PDF format (in my view) is preferable regardless of whether the objective is to actually print the contents or not. EReaders, particularly those with large displays, are likely to take advantage of PDF formats as well. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Comic gets it right
>From Mark: ... > ... and one can start by simply scanning all the > comment sections of websites where a CF story ran, and summarize > each skeptic's question or statement, and counter it with the facts. Keep > it short and sweet, with links to references... the list of Rossi's 'clues' > was put together in a matter of a week... perhaps 10 days. Wouldn't take > long to do something similar, and I think I've got the perfect title: > > Cold Fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions > Fact vs Fiction -- Reality vs Perception Very good idea: "Keep it short and sweet, with links to references." One of my biggest posting behavior faults is the fact that I occasionally don't know when to shut up. The objective can get lost in a plethora of details - particularly if one feels obliged to correct every innuendo & false statement - all in a single post. That's what the links are for - for those who want to follow-up with the details. ...and be relentless. Jed can be pretty good at that. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Mother Jones: The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science
Pretty decent article: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney Excerpt: > In other words, when we think we're reasoning, we may instead be > rationalizing. Or to use an analogy offered by University of Virginia > psychologist Jonathan Haidt: We may think we're being scientists, > but we're actually being lawyers (PDF). Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Colin Powell's WMD speech and other colossal technical mistakes
>From Jed: >> On February 5, 2003, Colin Powell made one of the most >> colossal technical mistakes in modern history. He delivered >> a speech making various claims about WMD intelligence in >> Iraq. He later called this "the lowest point in my life." > > I got that wrong. It wasn't Powell who said that; it was his > aide, who helped him write the speech. > > I believe Powell feels the same way. I recall Powell giving a presentation to the UN where he played a recording of intercepted cell phone call between two Iraqi soldier/officials. The superior was urgently telling the subordinate to quickly clean up the area before the (UN?) inspectors arrived. I don't remember where the location was, only that the location was manufacturing something of importance there - chemicals? My recollection of that recorded conversation was a little weird. Apparently, the superior knew the phone call was in danger of being recorded, which it was. He wanted the call to be brief. The superior told the subordinate to clean up the area - QUICKLY... leave no chemical traces, no evidence. Meanwhile, the subordinate's responses struck me as if he was a little bit shell shocked. He didn't seem used to having been given so much autonomy. The subordinate did not strike me as being prepared to assume a managerial role in the cleanup operation. At the time as Colin gave such presentations the idea of WMDs in Iraq seemed reasonably convincing to me. I guess I gave our intelligence the benefit of the doubt. Big mistake on my part. Actually it wasn't the intelligence so much but Bush and Bush's administration that was at fault. I will never forgive Bush nor Bush's administration for the travesty for which they have never owned up to. They continue to rationalize the invasion of Iraq as having been a necessary action, regardless of the fact that no WMDs were found. Actually, I'll never forgive myself for having giving them the benefit of the doubt. Shame on me. In the meantime, Powell admitted his mistake. Owning up to having made such a colossal mistake in his career speaks a lot for his character. He has hel several key government positions in his long career: four star general, Secretary of State, National Security Adviser. Despite his credentials Powell has consistently shown no interest in seeking the highest office in the land. I suspect that is one of the reasons why I think he might make a decent president. I'd love to have the birther movement chew on Powel as president. Since he was born in New York birther bigotry would have manufacture another excuse as to why they don't want a black man in the oval office. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another interview to Focardi
>From Terry > Focardi: > > "The gamma rays were not there because we were able to eliminate them > by putting the lead. In the experiments we carried out with the > engineer Rossi gamma were always there, but they were so little > intense than the natural radioactivity, which with small thicknesses > of lead preventing them we have eliminated any possible harm to human > health." > > Google translation. If a real human had done the translation they guy would have been kicked out onto the sidewalk in less than two seconds. Nevertheless, we all pretty much understand what was really meant. We automatically give Google's AI wiggle room... to be a little creative in how it interprets the source text. ;-) It's almost like a kind of reverse discrimination. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Colin Powell's WMD speech and other colossal technical mistakes
Terry sez: > Anonymous Iraqi General: "We need to make the Americans think we have > WMD so they will come over and get rid of Sodamninsane." Heh... there might be some truth to that premise. ;-) Actually, the most intelligent conclusion I heard about that whole fiasco was that Saddam strategically lead his enemies to conclude that he actually possessed WMDs - primarily as a way to keep his enemies from thinking twice about invading Iraq. It was a difficult tightrope to walk, trying to convince the UN that there were no WMDs, while simultaneously hinting to his enemies that the exact opposite was true. Unfortunately for Saddam, it didn't matter what conclusion was actually correct. Iraq got invaded anyway. Written on the walls. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Success for Rossi will bringing funding for others
Michele sez: > Rossi's previous life, when he was the "taxi driver"? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E > > ;-) Oh dear! I can't help it... I just gotta blurt out something blatantly OT here! According to one of my zany new age sources (Meaning the following is a totally unscientific analysis) Rossi & Focardi have worked together through many past lives associations. As a result of experiencing many past-life associations they have forged a comfortable team. They complement each other, filling in for the other partner's weaknesses. Their respective wives are part of this old team association as well. Apparently, being under the scrutiny of the public eye is not something new for either Rossi or Focardi. Perhaps that might help explain Rossi's seeming lack-of-concern when it comes to his perceived "public image." Back in the 1700s, in a former well-publicized life, both Rossi & Focardi were known as the Montgolphier brothers - the two individuals who successfully manned the first hot air balloons in history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgolfier_brothers Someone should casually ask Rossi or Focardi what they think of the sport of hot air ballooning. Perhaps it might get a rise out of them. ;-) Back to regularly scheduling vort programming. Don't shoot the messenger! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:97 E-CATS in Operation at 4 sites
> Your typical locomotive engine is around 1 MW. It might be wise to skip the generation of electricity in the first wave of Rossi e-cat sales. Focus on the KISS principal. Simply focus on the economic advantages of cheap heat! Rossi-powered 1 MW furnaces might do very well if the goal is to show how to heat all sorts of large commercial establishments in the snow belt at a fraction of currents costs. ...This would include office buildings (commercial and governmental), manufacturing facilities, hotels, entertainment centers, shopping malls, swimming pools (Water parks - turn them into establishments that are open all year!), roads & sidewalks, Speaking of roads, cyclical freezing, (expansion and contraction) of asphalt and the cracks that ensue is a major reason roads self-destruct and are in a constant state of repair in the snow belt. If heating tubes could be installed underneath many city roads, particularly where heavy traffic exists, it's conceivable that the added costs of keeping the asphalt continuously above freezing might actually turn out to be remarkably cost effective when compared to the inconveniences of having to constantly repair them, combined with the tangle of traffic disruptions that ensue, especially during rush hour. As they say in the Midwest: There are two seasons: Winter followed by road repair. Initially Rossi might do very well simply catering to the heating concerns of government & big business. Once they are hooked, they won't care anymore... Joe Public will eventually be able to purchase their own furnaces. Later, eventually, the generation of cheap distributed electricity would simply be a natural evolution of the same technology. Going after the heating market first would hopefully give many power utilities the necessary time to gather their wits and devise ways to roll with the punches. The smart utilities would hopefully transform themselves into sleek new industries that focus on the selling of home e-cat power units that come with mandatory monthly service contracts - say $30/ month, which gives you within-the-hour 24/365 instant repair service should the power generator installed in the corner of your basement go on the fritz. I'd buy into such a service. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:97 E-CATS in Operation at 4 sites
>From Robin: >>(Water parks - turn them into >>establishments that are open all year!), roads & sidewalks, > > Please don't advocate stupid wastes of energy. Current known > World Nickel reserves (140 million tons) are only going to last us 100 > years *at our current rate of use*. If we start wasting energy on > stupid things like heating roads and sidewalks, we will run out in > no time flat. Assuming we don't mine the asteroid belt for Ni in the foreseeable future... Heating roads and swimming pools would indeed be a stupid waste of energy if current world nickel reserves would only supply us with 100 years of energy. I would also point out that if such analysis is correct any idea that the world is on the verge of acquiring a cheap source of energy via the the Rossi effect would, in my view, quickly evaporate into thin air as geologists began assessing how much Ni is actually accessible, economically speaking. Something doesn't add up here. Please correct me if I misunderstood you on this point, but from previous posts I got the sense from you (and perhaps from others as well) that this 100 year prediction is based on the premise that only certain Ni isotopes are responsible for the Rossi effect. The point being these very specific Ni isotopes are in short supply. Once those earthly-bound rare isotopes are transmuted, remaining Ni is worthless insofar as the Rossi Effect is concerned. Meanwhile, I gather there there remains considerable debate as to whether the specific isotopes you cited are indeed responsible. Some, in fact, aren't even sure Ni is actually being transmuted. I really don't know whose theory is correct. I don't know if any elements are actually being transmuted or "fused" at all. Is transmutation occurring? Maybe... probably... And in what ratios? Well, here are some darts and over there is a dart board. Knock yourself out! Adding more sauce to the goose, it seems to me that we have received contradictory data concerning the actual isotopic ratios involved, both before and after the Ross effect is taken into account. You OTOH seem to know for a fact that the theoretical Ni isotope analysis in question is indeed the correct theory. Really? I would turn the tables and suggest that it is premature to pass judgment on the speculations of others until we know for a fact that the speculated Ni isotope analysis is indeed the correct conclusion to draw. Let me put it this way. If you had stated that if future analysis eventually confirms the the fact that specific Ni isotopic ratios are responsible, it would indeed be foolish to heat roads and swimming pools with such limited energy resources, and I wouldn't have a beef with you. But until such analysis is proven correct please refrain from prematurely passing judgments on the speculations of others, particularly when such judgments are based on nothing more than speculation & unproven theory. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Axil, I like your systematic break down of the process. I sure don't know WTF is going on! ;-) I luv a good mystery. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Correct me if I have misunderstood the most important relevant facts being debated here, but I believe Jones is making a strong claim that the percentages of isotopes allegedly found distributed throughout the copper found within one of Rossi's used e-cats clearly indicates that the "Rossi-effect" cannot be nuclear in origin. I've thought about this claim for a spell, but for now the only conclusion I can come up with is: Why not? What do any of us really know about how Mother Nature chooses to go about rearranging isotopes such as those belonging to copper. For all we know the speculated Rossi-Effect may exploit "natural environmental conditions" that tend to encourage a natural distribution of copper isotopes, such as what we tend to find in the ground. Seems to me that at this stage of the game we just don't have enough facts at hand to warrant any kind of a definitive conclusion about what is considered a "nuclear" effect and what isn't. Yeah, yeah, we know what the nuclear fizicists will say on the matter. What do they know. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
>From Terry: > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson > wrote: > >> Why not? > > You probably recall a test that was done on implants and some material > which "fell through the roof" in Ufology. That test was an isotope > ratio test. The claim was that elements originating outside our star > system would likely have different isotope ratios. > > Fact is that (with possible exception of recently theorized x-ray > transmutation) all elements other than hydrogen and possibly helium > are created in stars. You and I are made of stardust. Those stellar > processes which generate different isotopes depend on many factors > including the size of the star. The composition and energy of the > novae or supernovae would vary thus causing varying isotopic ratios. > The age of the isotopes and their level of stability would also change > those ratios. > > There is absolutely no reason isotopic ratios would he homogeneous. > It's why ufology did the tests on those implants! Indeed, as an old veteran spectator of the UFO scene I do remember some of those test very well. I seem to recall that nothing of great significance ever came of those tests. I assume earthly origins were concluded. I'm mindful of the stardust hypothesis. I certainly don't dispute such conjecture either. Different stars... different isotope percentages. Makes sense to me. The point I was trying to get across was is the fact that there has occasionally been some lively conjecture on the premise that nature, right here on our own planet, might also provide "natural" mechanisms that could possibly induce transmutation, such as within in the earth's crust. I know nothing about how such a "natural" transmutational processes might go about happening, assuming that it DOES. The concept of transmutation itself is obviously controversial and highly speculative. Nevertheless, if "natural" transmutations DO occur, it seems to me that currently we know next to nothing about what kinds of isotopic rations might be involved. It also seems to me that some of us may be guilty of trying to pigeonhole this highly speculated transmutation distribution ratios based on star fusion physics. Such pigeonholing might turn out to be inappropriate. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Hi Jones, >> Yeah, yeah, we know what the nuclear fizicists will say on >> the matter. >> >> What do they know. ;-) > Well that's it, isn't it ... what do the experts know? Of > course, one can throw all of nuclear physics out the door, > but why? I'm certainly not arguing that we throw present knowledge of nuclear physics out the door. Unfortunately, I don't believe I've made myself sufficiently clear on this point. > Ask yourself "why do I want so badly for this to be nuclear?" I don't. I don't know if it's nuclear, transmutation, Memorex, or some other interesting combination of all three. ;-) > "Do I want it to be nuclear so badly that I will throw out > - not only all of nuclear physics, but common sense and logic > as well?" > > "What do I gain by alienating most of science to blindly insist > that it is nuclear, when there is no evidence for that ?" Again, just to clear on this point. It certainly does not serve me to possess an invested interest nor an egotistical need to believe that the Rossi effect is a nuclear process. All I care about is making sure we verify as accurately as possible whether the heat is a genuine phenomenon, or not. Speaking of egos, hopefully I'm not egotistically invested in having to believe that nuclear physicists have it all figured out either. I doubt they do. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Jones sez: ... > My working hypothesis as of May 3, is that spillover > hydrogen is formed catalytically, at a threshold temperature > and collects in Nickel nanopores, gaining thermal energy > from an unknown source at very close to the Curie point of > the nickel. It is that simple. The reaction is temperature > sensitive. It's an interesting hypothesis. Certainly worth exploring. Acksully, I kind'a hope your working-hypo is headed in the right direction as we try to get a better handle on the physics involved. I would infer from your hypo that its probably irrelevant what the percentages of nickle isotopes might be in Rossi's e-cats. It would also suggest that we will not be using up Earth's precious reserves of nickel anytime soon. Heading to the asteroid belt can wait a little longer! ...In the meantime it would imply that we can have as many heated sidewalks & swimming pools as we want. Where's my inner tube. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Regarding the latest on-going spat between Jed & Jones ... Jed recently sed: > ... I suggest you [Jones] treat this more like a scientific discussion and > less like a legal proceedings, what with "the best available evidence" ... It's my understanding that Mr. Beene was at one time a lawyer. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg26922.html I think this is one of the reasons I occasionally find the Jed & Jones show entertaining, even informative. Very different perceptions. Very different approaches on how to analyze a vexing puzzle. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC and for Japanese readers only
Jed, Craig, & Terry sez: >>> England also has a wide range of dialects for such a small geographic >>> area. Some areas were remarkably isolated well into the 20th century. >>> A book about dialects that I read years ago said that in 1943, a >>> linguist found an old guy in a village in southern England who had >>> never heard of Winston Churchill. >> >> Do you ever watch Jay Leno? There are people in America who do not know >> the name of the president of the United States. > > My wife was at the manicurist yesterday near the Sugarloaf Country > Club and the women were discussing how the US had killed the president > of Pakistan (ObL). Ah, cut them some slack Terry! ;-) Musharraf, when he was still prez, probably had ObL over for dinner plenty of times during Ramadan. Shoot! They probably wuz neighbors! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13262131 http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/pervez_musharraf/index.html Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Good work-in-progress compilation Jones. Thanks for "volunteering". It's astonishing to me to see the number of different theories being explored. Some obviously have at present garnered more respect than others. But who really knows at present what combination of the above (or perhaps none at all) will be the final winner. It could take decades... as you say "a work-in-progress". The lords of Science have their work cut out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- NO Chemical Fakes eliminated
Alan sez: > Is it too much to ask for ONE TEST in which EVERYTHING is done correctly: Yes, Get over it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- NO Chemical Fakes eliminated
Alan sez: >> > Is it too much to ask for ONE TEST in which EVERYTHING is done >> > correctly: >> Yes, > > > > Sorry, I thought vortex was a scientific list, not a religious one. > > > Hi Alan, Jed has already posted a few suggestions on the matter of getting what you think you deserve in life. You seem to have come to a conclusion that my previous pithy response, (which I freely admit was intentionally crafted at your expense), is "religious" in nature. How you arrived at such conclusion mystifies me, but no matter. FWIW, I occasionally develop software. It's been my experience that 1 percent of software development involves highly inspirational POC (Proof of concept) work. Invariably, inspirational POC work tends to be followed by 99 percent of not so inspirational tedious labor that focuses on how to make one's POC application (one's pride-and-joy) idiot proof. Never EVER underestimate the capacity of software users to find ways to wreak havoc with one's pride-and-joy, especially as they go about "testing" and "analyzing" its merits. I have a suspicion mechanical engineering inventors must endure similar trials and tribulations, including Rossi & Co. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RaiNews24 (ITA)
>From MoB: >> But, did I hear David from Defkalion say it right, that they are aiming at >> producing 300.000 units per year? >> > Oeps, that should read 300,000 (three hundred thousand) Not by certain European standards. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
>From Jones: ... > ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the > deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating > that he could be harvesting the ash ? nah... > > The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but > think about it, do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative > price the new gold rush? > > Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why > BLP has not countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be > flush with new money, then one need only imagine the price he > can get from DoD/NASA for harvested Hy for use as either weapons > or propellant. Jones, you suffer from the same affliction that I suspect I'm cursed with: I think you tend to over-speculate! IOW, you think too much. ;-) I hope you don't take any real offense from this personal observation of mine. I'm only trying to suggest: It takes one to know one. Please note that being cursed with such an affliction hasn't stopped me from reading your unique take on recent events. I suspect your unique perceptions tend to augment my own fermentation processes. You certainly have a better grasp of the physics than I. Guinness anyone? PS: Keep updating the list! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments
>From Terry, ... > I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve. I could never figure > out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band > heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe. It now > occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters" > causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder. I think > these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the > amplification of the heat energy. By what exact method, I am unsure; > but, it would explain how he controls the reaction. It is literally > modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve". This is an interesting perspective on the matter. It also sort of makes me think of aspects pertaining to the WL theory and the alleged packing of electrons within the lattice. However, I don't really know if that's an appropriate association to make here or not. Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments
>From Terry, >> Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a >> very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to >> handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be >> insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here. > > Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video? Looked more > like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal. Well... now that you mention it. You're right. Perhaps Rossi's "insulation" pulls double duty. Perhaps at one time, years ago, Rossi was experimenting with an earlier version of the e-Cat where he unintentionally hot-wired one of the devices. While receiving an unpleasant shock, he may have simultaneously noticed that the offending device was heating up far more than expected. A shocking revelation! (This, BTW, is exactly what I mean about overactive imaginations occasionally running rampant and coming up with all sorts of speculative scenarios. I think Jones might suffer from the same speculative "gift".) Speculations or not, I think your thoughts on this matter should be added to Jone's list. Don't worry if it's still fuzzy. Most everything on Jones' list is fuzzy. You'll be in good company! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?
Makes me wunder if applying heat is really all that necessary. ...Or perhaps raw external heat is only necessary at first, as Rossi seems to indicate. The speculated implication is that it's actually the amount of electron packing going on that is a crucial element in sustaining the reaction. Perhaps once the "chain reaction" is initiated the external heating element essentially becomes irrelevant. (This would make sense to me. I never understood WHY Rossi always claimed it's necessary to keep the external heating element always on - for allegedly "safety reasons." That never made any sense to me. Makes me think the heating element is actually there for another reason.) Once the reaction is initiated, perhaps it then becomes a matter of controlling the amount of electron packing going on which, in turn, manipulates the strength of the reaction. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
Let me add my two cents: If Rossi's e-Cat reactor core can regularly sustain temperatures of 500c or higher, water that is in contact with the reactor core's surface FOR LONG ENOUGH PERIODS will most certainly exceed temperatures 100.1 C, and by quite a large margin. However, the tick would be to keep the water that has just been transformed into steam contained long enough AT the e-cat reactor core's surface so that it has the chance to absorb the additional heat. Currently this doesn't happen. It's my understanding that the current Rossi prototypes (perhaps for demonstration purposes) do not appear to be built in such a way as to physically contain the transformed steam. It's not designed to behave like a pressure cooker! The water immediately after it has been transformed into steam quickly expands. The steam quickly shoots out the exhaust pipe - i.e. the infamous black hose. IOW, the steam doesn't have a chance to hang around long enough to absorb additional heat and subsequently increase in temperature much above 100.1 C. Some on this list may still recall several months ago the fact that there was a protracted argument precisely based on this specific steam temperature issue. Some argued: WHY was the steam only measured to be 100.1 C when it exited out of the black hose, especially if the e-Cat reactor was claimed to be hundreds of degrees higher. Because the exiting steam temperature seemed to be rigidly fixed at 100.1 C some on this list became absolutely convinced Rossi was involved in a scam operation. However further experiments have proven that such concerns appear to be groundless, particularly (and ironically) when experimenters increased the water flow to show a simple 5 degree temperature increase. (More accurate calometric measurements resulted.) Hopefully, we won't have to revisit that protracted argument again. IOW, I doubt Rossi's e-cats, if engineered properly, would have a problem raising steam to significantly higher temperatures than 100.1 C. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Taxing vehicles for road maintenance in the cold fusion era
>From Jed: > 3. Use many more toll roads, with electronic toll collection rather than > toll gates, so that traffic does not have to slow down or stop. This has > been proposed in Georgia to replace some of the High Occupancy > Vehicle (HOV) lanes. They already have set up a lot of fast lane toll gates in Illinois. You purchase a "box" and affix it to the inside of your windshield. You go to a web site and monitor your funds account. It's pretty painless. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
>From Joshua: > In other words, you've got nothin' but vague, > unsupported insults. In my view, it doesn't matter if my vague unsupported insults (which I freely admit were done at your expense) are correct or not. You seem to believe that you have Rossi's occasionally troubling heat measurements pretty much figured out. Well... certainly more than me. Be that as it may, in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter if your detailed heat analysis seems less vague than my unsupported insults. We will all know soon enuf whether Rossi's controversial e-cats deliver the bacon, or not. Again, have fun storming the castle. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The waste heat problem
>From Axil: ... > Pumping the waste heat underground may be a solution, but would add > substantially to the cost of a Cat-E installation. Speculating a bit more on this topic... It seems to me that waste heat could eventually turn into a global environmental problem. Assuming e-Cat technology doesn't improve over the years, which I suspect would NOT be the case, the planet could end up with billions of e-cats radiating unusable heat into the environment. It could turn out to be worse the CO2 or methane. ACC actually speculated on this matter (in an incidental manner) in his less spectacular novel "3001 A Space Odyssey." ACC's solution was to construct several huge space elevators in geo-synchronic orbit around the equator that doubled as massive heat sinks. As fluffy as that novel was I loved reading it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
>From Joshua: ... > Eventually, in a few years Rossi will simply fade away > like Patterson from the 90s, and the CF community will > make excuses like his stock of lucky catalyst ran out > and he found he was unable to make more, and you will > refuse to admit you were wrong. Thank you for sharing your speculations on the continuing Rossi saga... and my predicted future behavior patterns. You imply that I have an invested interest in Rossi's e-Cats being the real deal. Well, it's certainly true that I HOPE they are the real deal. However, that's not the same thing as being emotionally invested in such a manner that Rossi's e-Cats HAS to be the real deal. If they turn out to be fakes, or nothing comes of such technology within the next couple of years or so, I will indeed be disappointed, but I'll survive. Based on your prior posting behavior you give me no reason to suspect you comprehend such distinctions. In fact, your posts seem to show very little comprehension of both human behavior and perception. As such, I doubt you have given much thought about your own emotional investments. I have been wrong many times in my life. I expect to be wrong again. Will I be "wrong" about Rossi's e-cats? It's certainly possible. In the meantime I do what I can to improve my understanding of what is speculated to be happening within Rossi's e-Cats. As you obviously ought to know by now, there are prevailing opinions on the matter. FWIW, it's been my experience that making predictions about the speculated behavior of others is not a terribly productive way of going about the task of getting your points across. Neither is it a good way to go about winning friends and influencing people. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The waste heat problem
Jed sez: ... > ...In other words, we may need a few hundred thousand reverse oil wells. > All the energy we got out of burning oil and coal we may need to put into > undoing the results and burying the fuel. Heh! ... which x'plains how the current supply of underground fossil fuels came into existence. Except our ET friends, the reptoids, aren't taking. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
Joshua, In one of my original posts I stated the fact that, in my opinion, Rossi's current e-Cat configurations are probably not configured in such a manner as to generate steam that is much above 100 C. I don't think the water once it's transformed into steam has a chance to hang around long enough to increase in temperature all that much. You obviously disagree with my opinion on the matter. I'm puzzled, however. You've also expressed the opinion that my opinions stand on nothing more substantial than vague, unsupported insults. And now you've deduced that I have a problem winning friends and influencing people. Why would anybody with so many problems as I seem to be cursed with be of any interest to you and your opinions? I'm puzzled because you give me the impression that my opinions continue to influence you. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The GWE scam could be the model for Defkalion
>From Jones: ... > Let me make it clear that there is no proof that they are planning a better > GWE scam, and there is no proof that they are legitimate either. The intent > of this post goes to the old Chinese(?) proverb "fool me once, shame on you, > fool me twice shame on me" This is just my opinion, and my opinion could be wrong, but the speculative nature of some of your recent posts are beginning to remind me of the machinations of well known public figure: Donald Trump. It seems to me that if you have actual evidence of wrong-doing it's time to spell it out, or call the authorities. Otherwise, the kind of speculation that you currently seem to be engaged in, particularly in regards to Rossi and/or Defkalion, can IMHO become unhealthy. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Question about Coulomb Barrier
>From Craig: > I've got a question that I believe you could help me with: > > I understand that the coulomb barrier is the point at which the Strong > Force will become dominant, and overcome the natural repulsion of two > nuclei as they are moved closer together. But can neutrons penetrate the > coulomb barrier without any problem, since they are not repelled by the > positive charge in the nucleus? Is this why the Widom-Larsen hypothesis > posits the entry of weak neutrons into the nucleus? It's my understanding that neutrons are essentially neutral in-so-far as positive/negative charges go. Therefore, neutrons do not appear to be influenced by the colomb barrier and can easily enter the nucleus of atoms. I gather this is a really big deal in-so-far as the Widom Larsen theory goes. But that's not the real issue. The real issue, the question that really needs to be resolved is whether ultra low momentum neutrons exist. Mills has his hydrinos that he is fiercely defending. Likewise, Widdom & Larsen have their ultra low momentum neutrons. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi bets the farm on Ni62?
As Robin points out. (From the Rossi Patent) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RossiAmethodandaa.pdf >[0037] For clearly understanding the following detailed >discussion of the apparatus, it is necessary to at first consider >that for allowing nickel to be transformed into stable copper, >it is necessary to respect the quantic laws. Accordingly, it is >indispensable to use, for the above mentioned exothermal >reactions, a nickel isotope having a mass number of 62, to >allow it to transform into a stable copper isotope 62. All the >other Ni isotopes, on the other hand, will generate unstable >Cu, and, accordingly, a beta decay. >From Wikipedia's knowledge base on Nickel & Copper isotopes: Nickel isotopes: 58Ni 68.077% 58Ni is stable with 30 neutrons 59Ni trace 76000 y e - 59Co 60Ni26.223% 60Ni is stable with 32 neutrons 61Ni 1.14% 61Ni is stable with 33 neutrons 62Ni 3.634% 62Ni is stable with 34 neutrons 63Nisyn 100.1 yß- 0.0669 63Cu 64Ni 0.926% 64Ni is stable with 36 neutrons Copper isotopes: 63Cu 69.15% 63Cu is stable with 34 neutrons 65Cu 30.85% 65Cu is stable with 36 neutrons * There is no stable 62Cu. I would assume that allowing erroneous explanations of such magnitude to be submitted as part of a patent would quickly invalidate it. How could anyone in the PO take the document seriously. Such apparent ignorance seems to suggest, at least to me, that something else is responsible for generating all the mysterious exothermic heat. That certainly is the 64 trillion dollar question. Comments? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi bets the farm on Ni62?
>From Jed: > However, I do not think that errors in theory will > invalidate a patent of this nature. I don't know enough about patents to pass judgment on such matters. Nevertheless, I'm worried that publishing such such errors in the patent will hamper Rossi's progress. I assume there exists many commercial applications that end up getting patented - where the underlying physics involved is not yet entirely understood. I assume Rossi's e-cat reactors essentially fall under such criteria. As I see it, the problem is that when someone like Rossi offers up what I assume he speculates to be a logical explanation, but where he gets the physics so blatantly wrong, it tends to devalue the validity of his patent. More to the point: There is the potential that it could undermine the validity of his work. IOW, it might have been smarter to simply leave the theoretical physics out of the patent and simply focus on revealing the specific mundane engineering steps involved. Regarding the physics involved and theoretical explanations: Simply say, something to the effect that the underlying physics involved is not yet entirely understood. However, if the following design steps as laid out in the patent are followed to-the-letter, the claimed exothermic effects will be observed repeatedly. Be sure to mention the fact that the claimed exothermic effects have been independently verified - that there is no question about the legitimacy of the observed heat. Yeah, well... that's what I would have done. But who listens to me! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi bets the farm on Ni62?
Hoyt, when I use Google email hitting return causes vort destined email to be addressed to your personal email, not to the Vort list server. You might want to adjust that. What I meant to send to the Vort Collective: >From Jed: ... > If that is the policy, it is sensible, because most > newly discovered technology is suboptimal and there > are often mistakes in the discoverer's work. Good point. >From Hoyt: > As I understand it, in the US anyway, the "Claims" are > the important part of a patent. The ancillary text doesn't > count. Nevertheless, it would not surprise me if certain skeptics might attempt to exploit Rossi's theoretical errors and use it as justification to invalidate the patent and the claims. IOW, another distraction that may have to be carefully monitored and sniped - so that it doesn't get out of hand and start stirring up more disinformation and innuendo. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi bets the farm on Ni62?
Hoyt, when I use Google email hitting return causes vort destined email to be sent to your personal email address, not to the Vort list server. You might want to adjust that. What I meant to send to the Vort Collective: - Hide quoted text - >From Jed: ... > If that is the policy, it is sensible, because most > newly discovered technology is suboptimal and there > are often mistakes in the discoverer's work. Good point. >From Hoyt: > As I understand it, in the US anyway, the "Claims" are > the important part of a patent. The ancillary text doesn't > count. Nevertheless, it would not surprise me if certain skeptics might attempt to exploit Rossi's theoretical errors and use it as justification to invalidate the patent and the claims. IOW, another distraction that may have to be carefully monitored and sniped - so that it doesn't get out of hand and start stirring up more disinformation and innuendo. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Re: MAJOR eCat plans : 1MW USA Customer ?
My personal interpretation of a possible Rossi "maybe" response: "Around the end of the summer season I do a lot of Hot Air Ballooning. My mind is elsewhere. Maybe I'll get two stations completed by October...or by November - maybe not." Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Beene and Blanton: Self-Runnier vs. 1 MW plant : Duel to the Death!
Ah Finally! Ladies and Gentlemen! Time for this evening's main attraction! We have two different POVs dueling for supremacy. This evening's fight theme: Would a self-running Rossi demonstration device be taken seriously by the world, or would a 1 Megawatt thermal plant suffice. In one corner we have the honorable Jones Beene, a former lawyer and scrappy debater who has disarmed many a wannabe challenger with his articulate linguistic punches. Jones' opening punch: > A self-runner is the holy grail. No one has ever done it > to date in LENR. I hope that the current situation is > "oversight", and that Defkalion did not realize that > COP>8 will essentially guarantee a self-runner. > > But Rossi could put all the worries aside when he > "closes the loop" with or without their approval. Why would > Rossi not want to do this? Does he not trust his own skills? In the opposite corner, the honorable Terry Blanton, who has accumulated vast personal experience in the trials and tribulations of trying to create a self-running alternate energy device, such as the SPRAIN project. Very few linguistic punches are likely to get past Terry's first-hand experience in this field. Terry's opening punch: > I am not so sure that merely self running would > attract billions quickly. I think it would have to > self run for a very long time for people to believe > it. Finsrud's mobile kinda self runs doesn't it? > > I'm not even sure that self running and lighting a > light bulb would bring billions quickly. > > But generating a megawatt of heat? Now *that* will > impress the masses. Honestly, from my experience, I > think that having a massive fire burning is what it > will take. > > Figuratively speaking, you'll be able to see it for > miles and miles. Gentlemen. Let me check your gloves. No hitting below the belt. Ding! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:A brief discussion on Permanent Magnet Motor configurations
Terry, Thanks for the SPRAIN update. Very informative. As a matter of public disclosure: Years ago I performed thousands of Finite Element Method Magnetic (FEMM) computer simulations on various PM configurations for a start-up company which at the time was actively exploring the matter. (This was not SPRAIN related.) As far as my own 2-D simulations were concerned no OU was ever discovered even though some of my simulations appeared to show that OU existed. In another case I got confused about a certain interpretation pertaining to "tensor field" forces and I ended up grossly miscalculating the torque strength. (For a while I really thought I was on to something huge!) The final conclusion that most in the company arrived at was the fact that the 2D FEMM software I was using was not sophisticated enough to compensate for certain mathematical anomalies introduced into the calculations. Certain anomalies seemed to get magnified based on specific geometries and angles being simulated. Over time tiny little errors/anomalies have a tendency to accumulate into one very big error. It was as if thousands of rounding errors accumulated and falsely ended up giving a huge OU signal where none actually existed. I learned a lot performing those FEMM simulations. It was also a very humbling experience. Terry, I don't think we ever discussed the following matter off line, but this is the conclusion I have come to in regards to potential OU permanent magnet motor configurations. It seems to me that one theoretical form of PM OU might still have a fighting chance of being for real IF PM magnetic fields can be influenced or manipulated in such a manner as to cause a cyclical variability in the magnetic field's strength. The problem that always seems to crop up, at least as I see it, is the fact that PM forces are essentially STATIC. Because magnetic forces are STATAIC there is never any variability (or asymmetries) that one can manipulate. If a methodology could be initiated that essentially manipulates a PM's magnetic field's strength WHERE THE PMS MAGNETIC FIELDS VARY CYCLICALLY IN STRENGTH, I believe an authentic OU configuration is possible. How strong? I dunno. I suspect this is where gnarly and obtuse discussions pertaining to harnessing the characteristics of "magnetic viscosity" enter the discussion. (It's possible Steorn may have been exploring viscosity at one time.) Some suspect acquiring a better understanding of viscosity, and learning how to manipulate those magnetic migratory paths IN A CYCLICAL MANNER might introduce in certain PM configurations sufficient asymmetries that one could take advantage of. Again, I dunno. The FEMM software I was using was totally incapable of modeling viscosity characteristics. Thus ended my theoretical research into the matter. Alas, I would have loved to have continued further explorations on the matter. Regards "Professor" Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: Why did the engineer Rossi beat all the scientists? WAS: Rossi bets the farm on Ni62?
>From Peter: ... > I think it is outrigth logical fallacy to compare > Mills' hyperchemistry to Rossi's nuclear jiu-jitsu. Why not? The fact that both processes appear to use nickel powder, hydrogen, a mystery catalyst, and heat certainly suggests there may very well exist linkage. > Mills has told me that his process has nothing to do > with Rossi's and he is not interested in what Ross > has done. I hope Mills' said that mostly for tactical reasons, perhaps as a matter for public consumption. (...and perhaps to appease his financial backers.) If that truly is his opinion then Mills reveals as much curiosity & inquisitiveness towards the work of potential competitors as ITER physicists and scientist have shown towards his own work. The statement strikes me as being narrow-minded, incredibly arrogant, and hypocritical. Let me put it this way: I'd sure be looking at Rossi's work, and taking as many notes as I can. > If somebody knows more about Mills's theory and results > than Mills himself- the best is to discuss wit the authors > (that's the function of literary critics too to explain to > everybody, including the author what has he wanted to say > in his opus) Agreed. Mills certainly has every right to defend the merits of his theories, just as his critics have every right to questions it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's U.S. partner revealed in NyTeknik
Regarding: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece Excerpts: > Do you have any doubt that this doesn’t work in the end? > > Cassarino: We did three demonstrations here in the US, and > these were non public. We did have a group of scientists > here that understood exactly what was going on, and we > helped actually set up the demonstrations. > > Obviously we still don’t understand what’s going on inside, > but he has something, and we believe that. ... >Why have you kept silent? > > Cassarino: We wanted to make sure that everything was in > place, that we weren’t just putting spins on things. > Because this is huge and we don’t want to just go out there > right now and tell the world. We want to be prepared for > this. > > And strategically it’s really partnering with the right > companies. You know it’s not just about money, it’s not > just about technology, it’s not just about companies and > their capacities, it’s try to understand how all those > pieces fit together. Ok... Some have speculated that such talk is indicative of a pump & dump operation. Or, perhaps, maybe they are doing exactly what they need to do in order to position themselves optimally in the market. In the end. Pick your poison. I wait for further developments. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's U.S. partner revealed in NyTeknik
FWIW: As of Monday morning googling "Ampenegro" does not bring up any relevant links. The link to the State of Ohio certificate is interesting, however. Perhaps even promising. See: http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3179056.ece/BINARY/Ampenergo+Certificate+of+Organization--.pdf Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's U.S. partner revealed in NyTeknik
As of 4:25 PM Monday Morning (Central Standard Time) googling "Ampenergo" is now beginning to point me to links that seem more relevant, such as: E-Cat World Getting Ready for the Rossi Energy Catalyzer - A Low Energy Nuclear Reactor http://www.e-catworld.com/tag/ampenergo/ May 16 2011 Interview with Energy Catalyzer Partner Ampenergo in the United States http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/interview-with-energy-catalyzers.html New Hampshire - Corporate Division Date 5/16/2011 File Documents ... https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?1114558 Is Storms' "stampede" preparing to exit the starting gate? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Peswiki finally reports on Ampenergo
See: Ampenergo Amps Up Rossi's Energy Catalyzer in America http://pesn.com/2011/05/17/9501827_Ampenergo_Amps_Up_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer_in_America/ Seems to me that it took Peswiki a tad longer than I would have expected to report their take on recent Rossi events. Usually they are pretty quick. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rydberg magic numbers
I didn't immediately know what made mersenne primes so special so I went over to wiki for a qwik upload: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_primes Pretty simple algorithm. I was nevertheless surprised to discover that the Wiki article on this particular subject appears have multiple issues, i.e., missing citations or footnotes, and unverifiable claims. What in the world would possibly make the study of Mersenne Primes so controversial insofar as Wiki is concerned? Are the Illuminati involved? ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rydberg magic numbers
>From Axil > Ø These planar clusters have six-fold symmetry and contain 7, 19, 37, 61, > or 91 hydrogen atoms. These numbers are the so called magic numbers for > closed-pack clusters. But 91 isn't prime. Or am I missing something vital here. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Natural News weighs in on Rossi
Title: "E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input" Thursday, May 19, 2011 by: Neev M. Arnell http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html Mostly harmless. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Joshua Cude at it, part 3
>From Abd: ... > "aleklett" is a true skeptic, and is to be > congratulated. He's very clearly stated the > matter. If this isn't a fraud, something is > going on that existing theory does not explain. > Isn't that fascinating? Not only is it fascinating, in my view, it's the whole ball of wax. > *Even if it is a fraud,* it's fascinating, the > sheer chutzpah of it! How the hell did he do > this, if it's a fraud? Somebody is going to > write a book, one way or another! It may even become required reading for courses on how to conduct scientific investigations. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:All that has happened until now has been prologue to what really matters
>From Jed: ... > ... People in the future > will know nothing about the difference between PCs and Macs, because both > will eventually become obsolete and will be forgotten. People will have > radio, and computers, and cold fusion. They will know nothing about the > difficulties and disputes that accompanied the creation of these > technologies. Perhaps that is as it should be. Your analysis may be accurate, even if aspects are disquieting to me. What concerns me is that if most of society in general shows no interest in educating themselves to the conflicts and internal bickering that birthed bastardized new technologies like CF... ...we effectively doom ourselves to having history repeat itself again, and again. IS that as it should be? My first response is of course to say, hell no! But then, maybe you're right. It would seem that ignorance sows the seeds for much of the juicy drama we witness in the world, day in and day out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT (sort of) - A funny thing happened on the way to the Rapture
>From Jed: ... > It does make me wonder how I would respond if I discovered that > cold fusion is not real, and all those researchers were mistaken > or fraudulent. I cannot deny I have an emotional investment. > That event would surely bother me a lot more than, say, > learning that special relativity is incorrect in important ways, > or learning that evolution is partly caused by something > other than Darwinian natural selection. That would be > interesting but it wouldn't bother me. If "in the unlikely event..." (...as airline attendants are so fond of saying) Rossi's Wunder-Cats turn out to be a complete fraud I suspect it would be a really tough weekend for you, Jed. I can tell you with absolute certainty it would be a tough weekend for me. It would be tough for me because I would have to take a long hard look at my discrimination skills, or more precisely the apparent lack of them. If I willingly allowed Rossi and his trickery to get past my BS filters it would throw into question WHY I allowed it to happen. I would be forced to ask disquieting questions like: Was my desire to simply believe in Rossi's claims so incredibly out of balance that my naivety completely overruled any sense of rationality or skepticism I might have still possessed? I suspect many within the Vort Collective pride themselves in believing they possess pretty decent BS filters, this despite the fact that most here are also willing to explore unproven technology and the controversial theories that might accompany them. While many of us occasionally bicker amongst each other as to the veracity of certain claims, in the end most here I suspect do not care to spend much time prodding hard-core skeptics - unless it is done as an intellectual exercise, or perhaps just for amusement. I suspect many of us tend to look down on hard-core skeptics, i.e. individuals like J. Cude, as unfortunately flawed in some profoundly intellectual way. But, horror of horrors, if Rossi turns out to be a sophisticated scam artist, and we didn't catch that fact before the hard-core skeptics expose the truth, we would be forced to assess whether our harsh opinion of hard-core skeptics is really deserving. For some here, to face such a revelation might be the equivalent of having to confront the possibility that the world was indeed created in seven days - and any day now, Yahweh is about to smite all of us sinners into a shouldering slag pile as His Holy-Laserness teleports the chosen to the promised Land of Eternal Rationality. We are unworthy! Perhaps it is suppressed nightmares like this that help explain why certain eastern religions like Buddhism and Zen suggest it might be a useful trait to cultivate a sense of the transient objectivity of one's surroundings, this despite the fact that these philosophies seem paradoxically subjective at their core. The point being: The less attached we allow ourselves to become to our unique collection of personal vices, the easier it will be to ride out the ensuing storms. I hasten to add, I'm certainly no Zen-master at this. It's a day-by-day process. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:First eCAT Book - John Michel ???
It seems to me that ANYONE attempting to publish a book on Rossi's e-Cats at this stage of the game would turn out to be a grossly premature venture. What could they possibly say that would be of any substance other than gossip. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
