Re: [FRIAM] faith

You're welcome. On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:52 PM, glen wrote: > > Nice! That was, truly, a bizarre little screed. And although you don't > get credit for writing any of it, there is plenty of value in the > synthesis of others' ideas into something new. Congrats! Definitely > worthy of your t

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Nice! That was, truly, a bizarre little screed. And although you don't get credit for writing any of it, there is plenty of value in the synthesis of others' ideas into something new. Congrats! Definitely worthy of your troll status. ;-) Douglas Roberts wrote at 09/27/2012 01:56 PM: > It's a

Re: [FRIAM] faith

It's a shame I stopped reading when I did on the wikipedia academic elitism link when I got to the nugget I was looking for, because *this* nugget is a real gem: "Some observers argue that, while academicians often perceive themselves as members of an elite, their influence is mostly imaginary: "P

Re: [FRIAM] faith

I, OTOH, was fairly certain I was going to encounter approximately the same amount as usual of, what do we call it? Pollyanna-like behavior: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna_principle No, that's not quite right. Academic ivory tower elitism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_elitism

Re: [FRIAM] faith/Social Darwinism

012 10:46 AM To: glen Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith/Social Darwinism Well, of course, the ultimate arrogance of the Social Darwinist/Eugenics movements was the belief that they knew who was "fit", without ever investigating it. So f

Re: [FRIAM] faith/Social Darwinism

Well, of course, the ultimate arrogance of the Social Darwinist/Eugenics movements was the belief that they knew who was "fit", without ever investigating it. So far as I can tell, gang members are, in general, more fit than people in the same immediate environment who are not members of gangs. If

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Douglas Roberts wrote at 09/26/2012 09:03 PM: > dead gang members are far more productive members of society than > live ones, I suspect. And here I was worried I wouldn't get enough _hate_ in my diet today. -- glen FRIAM Applied Comp

Re: [FRIAM] faith

uot;the survival of the fittest", I believe. N *From:*friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM

Re: [FRIAM] faith

gt;] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique

Re: [FRIAM] faith

03 PM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith > > ** ** > > Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique perspective: Darwin's > proposition of "Survival of the Fittest" would seem to scream out fo

Re: [FRIAM] faith

gacy is defined as >>> “advanced.” Spencer was the social Darwinist, not Darwin. In fact, it was >>> SPENCER, who coined “the survival of the fittest”, I believe. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> N >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>

Re: [FRIAM] faith

t; ** ** >> >> *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith >>

Re: [FRIAM] faith

gt; *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith > > ** ** > > Well, speaking from my

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Thank you Nick, I was going to say the same thing. -Arlo James Barnes FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Re: [FRIAM] faith

ve. N From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique pe

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique perspective: Darwin's proposition of "Survival of the Fittest" would seem to scream out for the elimination of degenerate components of society which threaten to bring the entire species to total extinction. And, being an engineer, I cannot but ch

Re: [FRIAM] faith

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > Tory - > > Why is the idea of two differing but synergistic approaches so >> challenging to so many on this list? Or are you arguing for the fun of the >> game? >> >> I'm pretty sure both the Monkey and the Weasel are in it for the > endorph

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Not necessarily, the religious conversion will likely reduce the kill-off rate. On the other hand, I suppose, we could encourage Islamic and Christian themed gangs and still achieve a reasonable kill-off goal. On Sep 26, 2012 4:19 PM, "Russ Abbott" wrote: > Driving home I heard a report about N

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Driving home I heard a report about New Zealand gangs. Apparently there are more gang-members *per capita* in New Zealand than any other country. (Surprised me.) Some of them are terribly violent. Very scary. Some have been reformed after finding Jesus. One of the best things that religion has ever

Re: [FRIAM] faith

It's your honesty I've always loved about you, Steve. I'm going with the weasel. T On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Steve Smith wrote: Tory - Why is the idea of two differing but synergistic approaches so challenging to so many on this list? Or are you arguing for the fun of the game? I'm pr

Re: [FRIAM] faith

(A post script to my frustrated rant replying to this thread (not to this post, Roger)) None of what I said precludes the table pounding and the whiskey. Need to go on record about that. Tory On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote: http://www.nature.com has provoked its own

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Tory - Why is the idea of two differing but synergistic approaches so challenging to so many on this list? Or are you arguing for the fun of the game? I'm pretty sure both the Monkey and the Weasel are in it for the endorphins released. The Mulberry bush is an innocent bystander, if in fact

Re: [FRIAM] faith

: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:38 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith In the context of religious faith. doubt * belief = 1 If doubt = 0 then belief = 1/0

Re: [FRIAM] faith - take 2

On 9/26/12 9:09 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Everybody, Have a look at the link, doxastic logic , that Russ put in his note below. It's a stunner. Nick The preferred variant of many (vocal) FRIAMers is /Dogmatic Logic/ which is the preferred

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Gentlemen and Ladies- There is a big question in this endless and reiterative loop about faith and science that no one mentions. So I will. Seems to be one of my functions. To wit: Even our brains have two primary and differing sections, the hemispheres: for best health and growth of the in

Re: [FRIAM] faith

http://www.nature.com has provoked its own discussion on faith. In August: *Sometimes science must give way to religion* http://www.nature.com/news/sometimes-science-must-give-way-to-religion-1.11244 arguing "why it will always be necessary to have ways of understanding our world beyond the scien

Re: [FRIAM] faith

...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:38 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith In the context of religious faith. doubt * belief = 1 If doubt = 0 then belief = 1/0 = singularity = God If certainty = 0 then doubt = 1/0

Re: [FRIAM] faith

in a person at the same time with respect to the same > proposition? > > > Nick > > -Original Message- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Sarbajit Roy > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:37 PM > To: The Frida

Re: [FRIAM] faith - take 2

ber 26, 2012 8:39 AM To: Russ Abbott Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith - take 2 The faith discussion seemed to fall apart, but might now be pulling itself back together - hence the slight subject change. One variant of the pragmatic dictum, using J

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

If people are really interested in the evolution of Buddhism - Jenny Quillien and I are planning a "Buddha Tour" - a month long study trip starting at Bodh Gaya (birthplace) then proceeding to Dharmsala (Tibetan variation) - Bangkok (Hinayana variation) - shaolin (the Taoist infusion) - Nara Japan

Re: [FRIAM] faith - take 2

im > >from A to B? Is it the case that, on your understanding, doubt and belief > >can exist in a person at the same time with respect to the same proposition? > > > >Nick > > >-Original Message- > >From: <#> [mailto:<#>] On Behalf > &g

Re: [FRIAM] faith

In his biography - Sonny Barger is quoted as saying he wished the Angels had not been so closely tied to Harley - that the Japanese cruisers in particular were more reliable and much faster. He said that before the rebirth of Harley - post AMF. My Crossbones has the same reliability and overall q

Re: [FRIAM] faith

The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith It would take the inverse form Faith is absolute acceptance whereas Belief is limited/conditional acceptance. So Russ may have belief in X without having faith in it. eg. "Russ believes that his old and broken

Re: [FRIAM] faith

oubt and belief > can exist in a person at the same time with respect to the same > proposition? > > > Nick > > -Original Message- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Sarbajit Roy > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Sarbajit, I don't claim to speak for Western Buddhism. I suspect, though, that most Westerners who identify with Buddhism do not include rebirth as a part of their view of the world. The focus is more on the present, on acknowledging the world (including himself or herself) as it is -- and as it c

Re: [FRIAM] faith

y Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith It would take the inverse form Faith is absolute acceptance whereas Belief is limited/conditional acceptance. So Russ may have belief in X without having faith in it. eg. "Russ believes that his old and broken down motor

Re: [FRIAM] faith

r me? > > N > > > > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Russ Abbott > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:42 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith > > > >

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Dear Russ 1. Religion / faith is not something which can be "bought", although the US Televangelists who buy cheap advertising on my cable TV channels to sell me JSUSSS at 4:00 a.m may disagree. 2. "Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian sub-continent" (per wikipedia). 3. BUDDHU

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Roger - And I think that is why Doug chooses a sleek German-Engineered machine over one of those big-iron sculptures you used to see on the side of the road being fiddled with... (now that they cost more than a Prius and only Doctors and Lawyers own them, that has changed a little). I have

Re: [FRIAM] faith

iam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 11:28 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:

Re: [FRIAM] faith

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > > My father bought a wartime surplus Harley when he returned from WWII, had > a grand good time stripping the military paintjob and repainting it only to > have two scary accidents within a few months (civilian turning left in > front of him,

Re: [FRIAM] faith

friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 11:28 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith Yikes. I might just have to break tradition and attend an actual FRIAM meeting

Re: [FRIAM] faith

** ** > > *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts > *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 11:28 PM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith > > ** ** > > Yik

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Yikes. I might just have to break tradition and attend an actual FRIAM meeting. Has there ever been an actual fist fight at a FRIAM meeting? -Doug Sent from Android. On Sep 24, 2012 9:17 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" wrote: Hi Russ, Whatever SEP may h

Re: [FRIAM] faith

>> won’t make it for Friday’s meeting, but NEXT WEEK, look out! >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Russ Abbott >> *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 9:42 PM >> *To:* The Frida

Re: [FRIAM] faith

get back to Santa Fe. This week I won’t make it for Friday’s meeting, but NEXT WEEK, look out! From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russ Abbott Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:42 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group S

Re: [FRIAM] faith

[mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Russ Abbott > *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 9:42 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith > > ** ** > > Robert Holmes quoted the *Stanford Encyclopedia of > Philosop

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Behalf Of Russ Abbott Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:42 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Robert Holmes quoted the <http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/faith/#FaiDoxVen> Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy as listing these senses of &qu

Re: [FRIAM] faith

- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:39 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith But my point (regarding God) was an expectation of action by whatever I have

Re: [FRIAM] faith

same. Nick From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Dean Gerber Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:22 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith We are all fortunate indeed that we have this very primitive

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Robert Holmes quoted the *Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy*as listing these senses of "faith." *the ‘purely affective’ model*: faith as a feeling of existential confidence *the ‘special knowledge’ model*: faith as knowledge of specific truths,

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Robert J. Cordingley wrote at 09/24/2012 04:38 PM: > But my point (regarding God) was an expectation of action by whatever I > have faith in and has nothing to do with action on my part. The > expected action can be provision of n virgins, not going to hell, relief > from pain, reincarnation as a

Re: [FRIAM] faith

But my point (regarding God) was an expectation of action by whatever I have faith in and has nothing to do with action on my part. The expected action can be provision of n virgins, not going to hell, relief from pain, reincarnation as a higher being and all sorts of other forms of divine int

Re: [FRIAM] faith

glen wrote at 09/24/2012 04:16 PM: > We could think of this in terms of compressibility where faith is less > compressible than Faith. Sorry. I meant the opposite: Faith is less compressible than faith. -- glen FRIAM Applied Complex

Re: [FRIAM] faith

It does seem that we've come to some agreement on the meaning of the word. It seems basically centered around Nick's original usage: faith is a kind of short circuit for justification. Steve's "faith" only short circuits a little bit, whereas his "Faith" short circuits a lot. The same could be s

Re: [FRIAM] faith

tion, ESP, Guardian Angel or other figments of our Cerebellae. --Dean Gerber From: Douglas Roberts To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith I'm not prone to experiencin

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Steve, I'm disappointed that you missed one additional opportunity to chide me about my "faith": the imaginary voice in my head. On a brighter note, however, at least there weren't any two-way telepathic conversations involved. --Doug On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > Dou

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug - Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's hood ornament! Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle. However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I contend that yo

Re: [FRIAM] faith

I'm not prone to experiencing "premonitions". Additional factoid: I ride paranoid because they *are* out to get me. Yet, the day before yesterday as I was heading south down to Santa Fe on the GSA1200, my premonition organ wiggled, and a voice inside my head said, "I sense danger." Like somebody

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Dave - Not true - because I have a countervailing belief - I am smarter and more aware than they and can thwart their evil intentions. Inarguable reasoning Dave... I commend you. Unfortunately I slipped behind the curve on my self-image regarding smart+aware a while back. It may be early

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith Nick, As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" are synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith" that distinguishes it from "belief." Tory, Thanks for you comment on my

Re: [FRIAM] faith

: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:21 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith As another rider (only 44 years) - my faith is that every other driver out there is

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Nick to Robert (or perhaps to Russ, I got confused): > I guess its fair to > say that in matters of small f faith, you are a catholic > and I am a quaker. I really don't care about what the > minister has to say; I want to hear from the > congregation. Trusting (did you-all already different

Re: [FRIAM] faith

; ** ** > > *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 11:34 AM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith > > ** ** > > Nick - >

Re: [FRIAM] faith

: Re: [FRIAM] faith Nick - Good point, however we all probably agree that hyperbole is as common on this list as is cynicism. I actually find myself leaving my driveway less and less... but not because I think anyone is out to get me, but in fact, as you point out, I'm more and more awar

Re: [FRIAM] faith

I believe it was this letter, but I don't feel like spending the $18 that Macmillan wants to let me look at it. *Nature* 289, 344 (29 January 1981); doi:10.1038/289344e0, Motorbike safety, G. K. MCGINTY, Redhill, Surrey, UK The author analyzed the change in angular size of a single headlight trav

Re: [FRIAM] faith

others. N From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:12 AM To: Russ Abbott Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith "By 'inadequate' I

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Very academically stated, Tory. What did it mean? --Doug On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Victoria Hughes wrote: > Made sense to me. > > On Sep 23, 2012, at 11:29 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > > Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an article > of a validated model vs "Fai

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Made sense to me. On Sep 23, 2012, at 11:29 PM, Steve Smith wrote: Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an article of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously adopted element not backed up by the same type of validation seems pretty concise. -- Russ Ab

Re: [FRIAM] faith

t love you AND they don't hate you. THEY JUST DON'T GIVE A S---T. n *From:*friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof David West *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 10:21 AM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* R

Re: [FRIAM] faith

ST DON'T GIVE A S-T. n From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:21 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith As another rider (only 44 years)

Re: [FRIAM] faith

up Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith It wouldn't hurt to review the entry on faith in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/faith/). In its second paragraph, it distinguishes between a broad definition of faith as trust or belief and the narrower notion of

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Goddamn, Dave! I just realized that I have faith! --Doug On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Prof David West wrote: > As another rider (only 44 years) - my faith is that every other driver > out there is incompetent, blind, deaf, and out to get me. I credit that > faith with my continuing exist

Re: [FRIAM] faith

As another rider (only 44 years) - my faith is that every other driver out there is incompetent, blind, deaf, and out to get me. I credit that faith with my continuing existence! davew On Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 06:23 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: Yeah, well: that philosophy will get you dead if

Re: [FRIAM] faith

It wouldn't hurt to review the entry on faith in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/faith/). In its second paragraph, it distinguishes between a broad definition of faith as trust or belief and the narrower notion of religious faith (think of the email traffi

Re: [FRIAM] faith

"By 'inadequate' I mean inadequate according to that person's normal way of deciding what to believe." But... Again I am confused... and admittedly being confused is often a step on the way to understanding... Who have you ever known who believed in God, and that belief was not "normal", i.e. ty

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Steve, OK. Those seem like two distinct meanings of "faith." I was talking and thinking of your second one. *-- Russ * On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > > Steve, Your post is too long for me to comment on it here. > > > Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Steve, Your post is too long for me to comment on it here. Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an article of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously adopted element not backed up by the same type of validation seems pretty concise? /-- Russ Abbott

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Steve, Your post is too long for me to comment on it here. Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an article of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously adopted element not backed up by the same type of validation seems pretty concise? /-- Russ Abbott

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Eric, For people for whom God is a normal part of their everyday world, faith is not an issue. They simply know whatever it is that they know. It's not matter of faith any more than it's a matter of faith that I'm typing on a keyboard right now. I mentioned religion because that's where the discu

Re: [FRIAM] faith

s not the sort of place where roads suddenly come to an end. Turned out to be false. By the way, a story circulated about that incident that the last thing that driver did was give the finger to another drive that he had just passed. Urban folklore, right? Too much Karma. Nick *From:*fri

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Of Russ Abbott Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:42 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Nick, As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" are synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith"

Re: [FRIAM] faith

But Russ... if you concede Tory's point, then I think you are quite stuck. There are many, many, many people for whom the everyday world contains a divine being... and the everyday world is the everyday world. There are people who train hard to see God surrounding them, and there are people for wh

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Nick, As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" are synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith" that distinguishes it from "belief." Tory, Thanks for you comment on my posts. I'm glad you enjoy them. My definition of faith makes use of the notion of the everyday world.

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug... It wouldn't be the first time faith got someone killed Russ, As I mentioned, "blind faith" is a relatively recent concept, even in religious contexts. Surely we often talk about "having faith" in things other than a divine being (or if we don't often talk about such things, we wouldn'

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Russ wrote, in part- Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier) is believing something that one wouldn't otherwise believe without faith. Believing that the everyday world is the everyday world doesn't seem to me to require faith. Russ, with all due respect for the enjoyment I get f

Re: [FRIAM] faith

e had just passed. Urban folklore, right? Too much Karma. Nick From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russ Abbott Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:42 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith I don'

Re: [FRIAM] faith

nt: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:23 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Yeah, well: that philosophy will get you dead if you are a motorcycle rider. Maybe not the first year, but the longer you maintain "faith" that the other diver will stay i

Re: [FRIAM] faith

I don't buy that "It is faith when you get out of bed without checking to see that the ground is still there." Why should one suppose that the ground would not be there? It seems to me that using "faith" that loosely robs the word of most of its meaning. Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier) i

Re: [FRIAM] faith

It makes for a great academic, philosophical talking point, though. On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: > Since this thread is still going... Curt said: > "Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I > don't have to track every one exactly." > >

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Yeah, well: that philosophy will get you dead if you are a motorcycle rider. Maybe not the first year, but the longer you maintain "faith" that the other diver will stay in his lane, the more likely it becomes that you won't make it home one night. I've been riding for 48 years, still alive... -

Re: [FRIAM] faith

Since this thread is still going... Curt said: "Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I don't have to track every one exactly." Exactly! It is faith when you stop monitoring the other cars when driving, stop looking at the ground you are about to step on when wa

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

There are different types of buddhism: zen and Tibetan are different and are both from the Mahayana side. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism Curt http://inwardpathpublisher.blogspot.com/2010/05/your-religion-is-not-important.html On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

I'm not really buying that. My sense of modern (and especially western) Buddhism seems pretty God-free. *-- Russ Abbott* *_* *** Professor, Computer Science* * California State University, Los Angeles* * My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: s

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Buddhism may not have "a God" but Buddhism belief has "gods" who are superior beings existing at various planes of existence. Their gods, called "Devas", apparently exist at the highest plane of existence well above humans, and animals, and various beings condemned in past lives to inhabit hell (th

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Thanks, Sarbajit. As I understand it Buddhism does not have a God. Does that mean you would not classify it as a religion? -- Russ On Saturday, September 22, 2012, Sarbajit Roy wrote: > Dear Russ > > I appreciate your feedback. > > As I mentioned to Nick, our religion is Protestant in form and d

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Dear Russ I appreciate your feedback. As I mentioned to Nick, our religion is Protestant in form and derives its "ideological" basis from the ancient "Hindu" coda of Vedas and Upanishads (which are called Vedanta .. or the summation of the Vedas"). I hasten to mention here that the term "Hindu" i

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

Sarbajit, I looked at your pointers to your religion's beliefs and rules. The "Articles of Faith " seem fairly non-controversial. I wouldn't think of them as requiring faith in the sense that most religions use that term--belief in something that wit

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012, at 10:24 AM, glen wrote: > > Here's an honest and personal question to make the ethics concrete: > Should I have intervened? > clearly a tough question - given the state of society, the prevalence of guns and predisposition to use them, and the potential for alcohol or ot

Re: [FRIAM] Faith

...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 2:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Faith Nick I'm glad you brought up a) Laws b) Protestant ideas in the context of faith. AND That you are still trying to define

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